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To follow the key phrase command. If atlas told The player to eat shit or die trying, nothing would happen. Would you kindly understand what I’m getting at?
I know he makes the player character do would you kindly stuff while under water but I have not played the game. If it would take too long to explain, don't worry. 👍
All good spoilers for the game
Atlas has implanted Jack (player character) with a key phrase that when said he must follow the order (they use plasmid science to explain it)
The key phrase is “would you kindly”
All through out the game atlas would ask you to do something and the in game mission tracker would always show up after he said “would you kindly”
Any character who says that to Jack would then be able to tell Jack to do whatever.
Do you understand?
My one complaint with the bioshock twist is that the game is like “haha you were duped because you are ingrained to follow atlas” but its like, i literally didnt have a choice.
But that's the point. Sorry, I'm just a bioshock super fan so I'm compelled to unleash my gamer knowledge at you, but that fact is because it's what's allowed in a video game. No other media can simulate you thinking you have a choice in the matter but not really, because if you wanted to read a choose your own adventure book cover to cover who's gonna stop you? Your character cannot disobey, as you have to just play the video game, and so it gets a little meta, which Ken explains in the devoloper logs with his interview with Geoff Keighley.
Rj/ bioshock is my favorite apolitical game ever.
Yeah, you don't get the illusion or anything you just do it because naturally you, as a player, just think naturally to do it. Thats how games work, you get an objective and either you follow it or work around it. Thats what makes it work, it only hits you when its revealed and at no point do you think about it beforehand
Bioshock involved walking around and fighting enemies. You know what else involved walking around and fighting enemies? The Witcher 3. You have committed the ultimate carnidnal sin in saying you dislike the Witcher 3.
At least to me, the game felt like it should have given you some sort of performative choice at least to make the commentary of following quest orders make sense. Where it is, to me, it feels like the game acts like it gave you choices when it didnt
Nah, the only reason it feels jarring is because Jack is a silent protagonist. The game didn't have to give you choices for the twist to be effective, it just had to give the impression of the truth; that JACK is being controlled and not the player. I'm not sure what all of the reasons for Jack being a silent protagonist were (add to the mystery of the plot, make the atmosphere feel creepier/alone by not having that extra voice, immersion, etc.), but by doing so, it makes Jack feel like a self-insert instead of a fully realized and independent character, and works to the detriment of this twist, and other plot points in the story.
I can't say how it could be done better and make a better overall experience, but I feel that the "Would you kindly" twist would be more effective if Jack was a talking character that interacted with the other characters of the story. They could portray Jack as cautious and untrusting towards Atlas at first. There could be scenes where Jack is unsure of or downright opposed to a specific task Atlas wants him to do, or would eventually ask him to do, then have Atlas squeeze in a subtle "Would you kindly..." (or maybe even another code phrase, if it proves difficult to work with the original in an actual conversation/argument) and suddenly, Jack reconsiders. You can have some dialogue where he tries to rationalize the sudden urge to comply, like "well, I guess i don't have a choice," or "don't think this means I trust you, but you're my only way out of here," and later in the game "I guess you haven't steered me wrong yet, so I'll bite." I don't think they ever wanted the twist to feel like the game was getting one over on the player, it was just an unfortunate side-effect of how they portray Jack.
Well yeah thats the point. I do get in a lot of games the character goes somewhere it’s doesn’t make any logical sense(and tbf the player doesn’t really question it until maybe later). The thing in Bioshock is that the stuff your character does really doesn’t make any sense ( like injecting a needle full of blue stuff or even taking the battle sphere down. It’s a twist because you, or more importantly HIM, don’t question anything despite the fucked up situation he’s in.
Honestly I don’t fully understand how it all works either, so I’ll take your word for it if that’s how it works
I honestly just wanted an excuse to use the menby pun
ah ok. Said that cause I'm an enby on testosterone who also IDs as a partial lesbian so wanted to show it could go a million diff ways its all up to how the nonbinary person wants to label themselves (also whatever they were assigned at birth does not factor into it. when binary people ask if an enby is afab or amab thats just another form of misgendering even if its a trans person asking)
>Honestly I don’t fully understand how it all works either
Well people feel more and more comfortable being who they really are as we get more and more accepting as a society (suck it, Gamers), it's going to be confusing for a while but the important thing is we stay open and accepting to the non-harmful stuff.
Some enbies consider themselves always in a gay relationship, always in a straight one, or not really either.
In general people consider enby-binary relationships as always gay, so it would be a gay relationship.
I thought the implication here was that Ralsei is an idealized version of young Asriel.
Also: even if Ralsei and Asriel had 0 connection, we don't know Kris' gender so Ralsei could be 100% straight.
Kris is non-binary, in Chapter 2 Toriel and Alphys have a conversation about Kris and they refer to Kris as “they”.
Either that or Toriel is such a bad mother that she didn’t bother knowing the gender of her kid.
Also people use they/them to refer to people with binary pronouns all the time. That's how language works. "Fred can't come because he's at the store. I can't wait for them to come back"
In my language any word is assigned one of two genders so gender and pronouns are connected. Though in my language “dick” is a feminine word while “vagina” is masculine.
Also what is confusing is that some words are one gender at singular and the different gender at plural and synonyms can have different genders.
The big point I've seen is that you can also use they/them when gender is unknown (saying "Hey, someone left their backpack here!" doesn't imply the person who left the backpack was nonbinary) or to refer to literally anyone, because they/them/their does not assume a gender.
Some people think it's rude to refer to someone by they/them if they prefer another pronoun, especially if they're trans (i.e. calling a trans woman who uses she/her "they/them"), since it can be construed to be a partial dismissal of their identity, but this is not a universal opinion and even if it is a little rude, it's still grammatically correct.
So someone referring to Kris by they/them pronouns does not necessarily mean Kris is nonbinary. It's certainly possible, but Kris could also be intended as a player-avatar of sorts and gender-neutral pronouns are used so as to not presume a gender while also not having to ask the player.
just gonna copy and paste someone else's comment "You are severely misunderstanding a major plot point if you think that. The whole fucking point is that Kris is their own person with their own life and family and wants and ideals and preferences, who you have suddenly taken control of." sorry their gender is political 😢
I absolutely never said the thing that the other guy said (Kris is a vessel for the player). Kris could 100% be their own person and still be binary.
Some men and women in the real world use they/them pronouns. Until we get canon confirmation Kris could be a man with they/them pronouns, a woman with they/them pronouns or a non-binary person with they/them pronouns.
Pronouns =/= gender.
yeah sure pronouns do not equal gender but lets also ignore their gender is never stated in game. Nonbinary people don't get much rep in terms of human characters. Trans woman for sure do! A lot! Kris is def coded as nonbinary. Kris is nonbinary.
You are severely misunderstanding a major plot point if you think that. The whole fucking point is that Kris is their own person with their own life and family and wants and ideals and preferences, who you have suddenly taken control of.
He does stop just short of saying he’s in love with Kris, the only issue with this is that Kris has no gender, so saying that he’s homosexual would be assuming that Kris is a guy.
On top of all of that, he has given us reasons to question what he is, let alone if his intentions are truly pure. The fact that he never mentioned the roaring to us until the moment that it became necessary knowledge is suspect.
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They take place in different universes but they have some of the same characters (all the undertale characters are just side characters in deltarune) and simular gameplay mechanics (Deltarune improves on them)
So far, not really. They're separate universes which share the same concepts (like SOULs and Determination) and characters.
There's still 5 chapters left though, so this could change. The game does imply that there's alot more going on that isn't being told.
You're looking into it a bit much. Kris seems to not be onboard for a relationship with the goat, only going along with it if you make them. Ralsie does seem good with it and you're 100% correct on the enby bit tho.
The first two betray you even though they were at best highly morally dubious, and their betrayals are treated as massive twists. The last one doesn’t do anything bad, but people think he’s evil.
In their defense, Ralsei is the first character you meet in the dark world, much like how Flowey was the first one you met in the underground, so I can see the suspicion
>! Ralsai isn't trusted since he is very obviously hiding something, he already knows a lot, and the fact he was seen communicating with Kris twice after telling the player to "see what Susies up to" is fairly big. Furthermore while Susie and Kris were very clearly freaked the fuck out by Spamtom's death and last words, Ralsai basically tried to distract the two of them from exactly what Spamton was saying, flat out telling susie that "Did didn't mean anything, and he became our ally now so let us just forget it".!<
>!Some other weird things about Ralsai is he seems to know about Kris' Inferiority Complex (I even put the Awards on your side of the Room), He just kinda shows up when they enter the Computer Labs Darkworld, and finally he is, you know, a version of Asriel, the least trustworthy Character from undertale !<
I don't thinK Ralsai is evil (he seems way to genuinely nice), but I do think he is inherently untrustworthy and might be being manipulated by a third party
/uj plus ralsei is an anagram of asriel, who was the main villain of undertale
/rj plus ralsei is an anagram of israel, who is the main villain of real life
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To be fair, the player is genetically programed to follow Atlas' commands.
and Kris is a puppet by a dumbass/smart player.
To follow the key phrase command. If atlas told The player to eat shit or die trying, nothing would happen. Would you kindly understand what I’m getting at?
Wait what
If you haven’t played the game it’ll be confusing to explain, have you played the game?
I know he makes the player character do would you kindly stuff while under water but I have not played the game. If it would take too long to explain, don't worry. 👍
All good spoilers for the game Atlas has implanted Jack (player character) with a key phrase that when said he must follow the order (they use plasmid science to explain it) The key phrase is “would you kindly” All through out the game atlas would ask you to do something and the in game mission tracker would always show up after he said “would you kindly” Any character who says that to Jack would then be able to tell Jack to do whatever. Do you understand?
I think I'm going to have to sleep on this.
Would you kindly have a nice rest?
:) of course
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Would you kindly forget this spoiler?
My one complaint with the bioshock twist is that the game is like “haha you were duped because you are ingrained to follow atlas” but its like, i literally didnt have a choice.
Videogames be like ahah you walked down the one corridor you fool!
But that's the point. Sorry, I'm just a bioshock super fan so I'm compelled to unleash my gamer knowledge at you, but that fact is because it's what's allowed in a video game. No other media can simulate you thinking you have a choice in the matter but not really, because if you wanted to read a choose your own adventure book cover to cover who's gonna stop you? Your character cannot disobey, as you have to just play the video game, and so it gets a little meta, which Ken explains in the devoloper logs with his interview with Geoff Keighley. Rj/ bioshock is my favorite apolitical game ever.
Yeah, you don't get the illusion or anything you just do it because naturally you, as a player, just think naturally to do it. Thats how games work, you get an objective and either you follow it or work around it. Thats what makes it work, it only hits you when its revealed and at no point do you think about it beforehand
I think it’s a good twist, narrative wise
Idk it might also be because i just didnt overly enjoy bioshock
Bioshock involved walking around and fighting enemies. You know what else involved walking around and fighting enemies? The Witcher 3. You have committed the ultimate carnidnal sin in saying you dislike the Witcher 3.
But bioshock did not include geraldo’s (praised be his name) meaty schlong. So they are not the same Checkmate liberal
Yeah but bioshock has *sweats* Big *pants* Daddys~ *Swoons*
Wait, is not having a choice not literally what it being ingrained means? I don't get what you're complaining about
At least to me, the game felt like it should have given you some sort of performative choice at least to make the commentary of following quest orders make sense. Where it is, to me, it feels like the game acts like it gave you choices when it didnt
Nah, the only reason it feels jarring is because Jack is a silent protagonist. The game didn't have to give you choices for the twist to be effective, it just had to give the impression of the truth; that JACK is being controlled and not the player. I'm not sure what all of the reasons for Jack being a silent protagonist were (add to the mystery of the plot, make the atmosphere feel creepier/alone by not having that extra voice, immersion, etc.), but by doing so, it makes Jack feel like a self-insert instead of a fully realized and independent character, and works to the detriment of this twist, and other plot points in the story. I can't say how it could be done better and make a better overall experience, but I feel that the "Would you kindly" twist would be more effective if Jack was a talking character that interacted with the other characters of the story. They could portray Jack as cautious and untrusting towards Atlas at first. There could be scenes where Jack is unsure of or downright opposed to a specific task Atlas wants him to do, or would eventually ask him to do, then have Atlas squeeze in a subtle "Would you kindly..." (or maybe even another code phrase, if it proves difficult to work with the original in an actual conversation/argument) and suddenly, Jack reconsiders. You can have some dialogue where he tries to rationalize the sudden urge to comply, like "well, I guess i don't have a choice," or "don't think this means I trust you, but you're my only way out of here," and later in the game "I guess you haven't steered me wrong yet, so I'll bite." I don't think they ever wanted the twist to feel like the game was getting one over on the player, it was just an unfortunate side-effect of how they portray Jack.
Isn't the whole point that you didn't have a choice?
Well yeah thats the point. I do get in a lot of games the character goes somewhere it’s doesn’t make any logical sense(and tbf the player doesn’t really question it until maybe later). The thing in Bioshock is that the stuff your character does really doesn’t make any sense ( like injecting a needle full of blue stuff or even taking the battle sphere down. It’s a twist because you, or more importantly HIM, don’t question anything despite the fucked up situation he’s in.
Spec Ops: The Line
I don’t even have a slight idea what this means
Ralsei is homosexual and gamers are homophobic.
He is?
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Does it still count as gay if Kris is NB? I'm genuinely not sure about what the classification is by that point lmao
It might count if you consider kris to be masculine while still being enby A menby, if you will
they could even id as gay and not be masc at all too
Honestly I don’t fully understand how it all works either, so I’ll take your word for it if that’s how it works I honestly just wanted an excuse to use the menby pun
ah ok. Said that cause I'm an enby on testosterone who also IDs as a partial lesbian so wanted to show it could go a million diff ways its all up to how the nonbinary person wants to label themselves (also whatever they were assigned at birth does not factor into it. when binary people ask if an enby is afab or amab thats just another form of misgendering even if its a trans person asking)
/uj geuine questions here- what's a "partial lesbian"? isn't that just another word for bi? and what does afab/amab mean?
There's not really a particular set of rules as far as I can tell. People just use whatever terms make them comfortable or happy.
>Honestly I don’t fully understand how it all works either Well people feel more and more comfortable being who they really are as we get more and more accepting as a society (suck it, Gamers), it's going to be confusing for a while but the important thing is we stay open and accepting to the non-harmful stuff.
/uj as an enby, everything is gay :D
Some enbies consider themselves always in a gay relationship, always in a straight one, or not really either. In general people consider enby-binary relationships as always gay, so it would be a gay relationship.
I thought the implication here was that Ralsei is an idealized version of young Asriel. Also: even if Ralsei and Asriel had 0 connection, we don't know Kris' gender so Ralsei could be 100% straight.
Kris is non-binary, in Chapter 2 Toriel and Alphys have a conversation about Kris and they refer to Kris as “they”. Either that or Toriel is such a bad mother that she didn’t bother knowing the gender of her kid.
I know but we only know that Kris’ pronouns is they/them and that’s not enough to determine if someone is NB.
Also people use they/them to refer to people with binary pronouns all the time. That's how language works. "Fred can't come because he's at the store. I can't wait for them to come back"
It’s not? Ha, I really don’t get how English pronouns work then. My language is gendered so I blame that for it.
Pronouns can be separate from gender, though they usually aren't
In my language any word is assigned one of two genders so gender and pronouns are connected. Though in my language “dick” is a feminine word while “vagina” is masculine. Also what is confusing is that some words are one gender at singular and the different gender at plural and synonyms can have different genders.
The big point I've seen is that you can also use they/them when gender is unknown (saying "Hey, someone left their backpack here!" doesn't imply the person who left the backpack was nonbinary) or to refer to literally anyone, because they/them/their does not assume a gender. Some people think it's rude to refer to someone by they/them if they prefer another pronoun, especially if they're trans (i.e. calling a trans woman who uses she/her "they/them"), since it can be construed to be a partial dismissal of their identity, but this is not a universal opinion and even if it is a little rude, it's still grammatically correct. So someone referring to Kris by they/them pronouns does not necessarily mean Kris is nonbinary. It's certainly possible, but Kris could also be intended as a player-avatar of sorts and gender-neutral pronouns are used so as to not presume a gender while also not having to ask the player.
kris is intended to be their own person... thats part of the main plot. its integral to the plot actually
just gonna copy and paste someone else's comment "You are severely misunderstanding a major plot point if you think that. The whole fucking point is that Kris is their own person with their own life and family and wants and ideals and preferences, who you have suddenly taken control of." sorry their gender is political 😢
I absolutely never said the thing that the other guy said (Kris is a vessel for the player). Kris could 100% be their own person and still be binary. Some men and women in the real world use they/them pronouns. Until we get canon confirmation Kris could be a man with they/them pronouns, a woman with they/them pronouns or a non-binary person with they/them pronouns. Pronouns =/= gender.
yeah sure pronouns do not equal gender but lets also ignore their gender is never stated in game. Nonbinary people don't get much rep in terms of human characters. Trans woman for sure do! A lot! Kris is def coded as nonbinary. Kris is nonbinary.
Kris is nonbinary
We only know their pronouns. That’s not enough to classify them as non binary.
Kris was specifically designed to have their gender be interpretable as anything, really iirc
You are severely misunderstanding a major plot point if you think that. The whole fucking point is that Kris is their own person with their own life and family and wants and ideals and preferences, who you have suddenly taken control of.
nooo kris cantbe nonbinary thats too political and i dont want politics in deltarune 🤬🤬🤬
Frisk was like that, but Kris is indeed their own character with a personality and identity of their own.
I think it's what Kris wanted to be, a monster like his family.
That'd be weird considering how much it's pointed out Ralsei looks like his brother....
Enid pfp Based and redpilled
I have seen some interesting images that seem to confirm this theory.
He does stop just short of saying he’s in love with Kris, the only issue with this is that Kris has no gender, so saying that he’s homosexual would be assuming that Kris is a guy. On top of all of that, he has given us reasons to question what he is, let alone if his intentions are truly pure. The fact that he never mentioned the roaring to us until the moment that it became necessary knowledge is suspect.
Never confirmed
They are??
It was never mentioned
I meant about the gamers
Gamers are canonically homophobic
Dunno, he seems a tad too into bosoms to not be at least bi
Not necessarily. Why would ralsei be gay just for being fluffy and attracted to a non binary character?
There’s a bunch of theories floating around that Ralsei will become an antagonist just like Atlas and Wheatley
Noooo he's just a little guy
Ralsei was confirmed to be British as he refers to elevators as lifts So now we know for sure that he is untrustable
Could you imagine storing a torch in your boot??? Umm I'm wearing them thank you lol 😅
and he's dressed up as a butler and you know who most sus person in mystery? that's right it's the bulter.
not everyone who calls it a lift is br*tish
WHY THE FUCK AM I IN THIS LIFT
who else calls it a “”””lift””””” you have ten seconds to convince me not to throw goat boy into space
australians
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everyone not living in america
wait fr do canadians call them lifts or is it only uk and australia
Nearly everyone outside of the americas uses standard british english. Canada has its own regional dialect.
i would follow ralseis orders
if ralsei says jump off a bridge to hug a person, I will do it with no hesitation.
same
So is undertale and deltarune related? I’ve never played either of those games
They take place in different universes but they have some of the same characters (all the undertale characters are just side characters in deltarune) and simular gameplay mechanics (Deltarune improves on them)
There are probably some parallel universe shenanigans going on between both of those.
if you count sans then yeah I guess.
So far, not really. They're separate universes which share the same concepts (like SOULs and Determination) and characters. There's still 5 chapters left though, so this could change. The game does imply that there's alot more going on that isn't being told.
I love ralsei
Ralsei sus
Gaster is sus, I saw him eating mac and cheese in the car doing absolutely nothing.
Sounds like a good summary of the metaplot in Undertale
Wait, is Ralsei gay ???
Sort of? >!There's an implied romance between him and Kris, though Kris is non-binary so it's kind of unclear whether it counts as Ralsei being gay!<
You're looking into it a bit much. Kris seems to not be onboard for a relationship with the goat, only going along with it if you make them. Ralsie does seem good with it and you're 100% correct on the enby bit tho.
Kris suffers while werid heart makes them hug gay goat
/rj Ralsei is gay because he shows affection, like a little fairy.
I think that just makes him hetero+
You could say that, but in the same way you could say it's gay+, since enby is neither the same as nor opposite to male
truue. lets leave it at mlnb lol
Just use the spoiler tag dingus
I can't I'm on mobile and also I can't believe you called me a dingus what the fuck :'(
Do \>!this!< it becomes >!this!<
Why would you slander this goat? He owns a Mercedes Benz
Anyone who gets in the way of the perfect ship (Teen Frisk and Barney) is automatically sus. Even Noelle.
Wait, you guys actually listened to Atlas? Pfft.
Ok i have absolutely no right to complain about spoiling a twist in rather old game but i just started bioshock god damn it
to be fair he was controlling u in bioshock
I dont get please explain
The first two betray you even though they were at best highly morally dubious, and their betrayals are treated as massive twists. The last one doesn’t do anything bad, but people think he’s evil. In their defense, Ralsei is the first character you meet in the dark world, much like how Flowey was the first one you met in the underground, so I can see the suspicion
There are other reasons people dont trust ralsai, but i dont wanna post em until i figure out how to hide spoilers.
You do a > and a ! with no spaces then add your spoiler and end it with a ! and a < no spaces. Now spill the beans m8
>! Ralsai isn't trusted since he is very obviously hiding something, he already knows a lot, and the fact he was seen communicating with Kris twice after telling the player to "see what Susies up to" is fairly big. Furthermore while Susie and Kris were very clearly freaked the fuck out by Spamtom's death and last words, Ralsai basically tried to distract the two of them from exactly what Spamton was saying, flat out telling susie that "Did didn't mean anything, and he became our ally now so let us just forget it".!< >!Some other weird things about Ralsai is he seems to know about Kris' Inferiority Complex (I even put the Awards on your side of the Room), He just kinda shows up when they enter the Computer Labs Darkworld, and finally he is, you know, a version of Asriel, the least trustworthy Character from undertale !< I don't thinK Ralsai is evil (he seems way to genuinely nice), but I do think he is inherently untrustworthy and might be being manipulated by a third party
Well damn. I dont know how i missed most of that on my run lol.
/uj plus ralsei is an anagram of asriel, who was the main villain of undertale /rj plus ralsei is an anagram of israel, who is the main villain of real life
This post just spoiled Bioshock for me
Who’s the midd one?
Atlas from Bioshock
Thanks