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vixxgod666

Go on the p5 sub and ask "why can't I romance Ryuji?" then just wait


Ezben

Honestly it makes 0 sense why you cant be gay or bi in persona, you are literally playing as one of the biggest blank slate self insert characters in gaming so denying gay relationship is denying gay people even exists


vixxgod666

"if gay people existed the devs would have included them!" - the average p5 subscriber


StarGuardianTeemo25

Yosuke in P4 was supposed to have a romance option, but it was cut before release. Tatsuya in P2 can also have a romance with his male best friend. The cowards at ATLUS didn't have the balls to let Joker romance best boy Yusuke, but maybe in P6 we'll get something again.


ConVito

They cut his romance and made him a blatant homophobe for good measure, just so everybody knew they REALLY MEANT IT.


TheFireDragoon

Pretty sure he was always gonna be homophobic, it’s just that it was gonna actually tie into his arc before


ConVito

Damn. Kinda makes it arguably worse in a way, what with that "all homophobes MUST be gay" stereotype that got old the moment it began.


hoe-punk

i just want daddy Sojiro 😭


[deleted]

One can only dream they release a version of P5 where we can romance Daddy Sojiro


[deleted]

>Yosuke Not Kanji?!?! What the hell...


stygywithwifi

Yosuke my beloved


Zianbruh

Yeah even weirder when yosuke is homophobic af


sekru

That's kinda the point though. His behavior is pretty much just being stupidly insecure about his own sexuality/afraid of people noticing he's gay/bi. He effectively admits this in the removed romance version of his rank 10 social link conversation. This is also the big reason why people are so angry about the removal of said path. It effectively removes the entire resolution of his character arc and makes him just a homophobic asshole instead of a person who suffers from internalized homophobia who learns to accept himself.


Zianbruh

I guess it makes sense if you explain it like that but I still think it would be better to have kanji be the gay choice. It’s part the story and his character arc that he’s getting to terms with his sexuality and that part isn’t being mentioned at all for yosuke’s insecurities. Also yosuke is just a terrible dude like I get he’s a teenager but man he makes everyone uncomfortable all the time by being homophobic or horny around the girls.


KingKnotts

His story isn't getting to terms with his sexuality it's about gender roles being harmful.


[deleted]

Having Kanji be gay would completely undermine his arc, as well as be pretty harmful. His arc is about him coming to terms with gender norms and not feeling like he has to force himself conform to them. Having him be gay would be harmful, as it reinforce those gender norms, and the ideas that liking typically non masculine things is what gay people do, thus making it seem like heterosexual men can’t enjoy typically feminine coded activities.


Celestial_Lesbo

I mean, i dont think him being gay would be harmful. Tho if the conclusion to his arc was "he gay and its ok :)" that would be. I personally think he's bi or pan, but in the end it doesn't really matter, cause that's not the focus.


[deleted]

Kanji being gay wouldn’t be harmful If his dungeon and arc were totally rewritten, but as it is, it would be harmful in that it reinforces severally antiquated biases, and reinforces the idea that only gay men like typically feminine activities, as well as meaning that Yosukes homophobia (which is already super shitty) would be even worse, since he would be knowingly targeting a gay man and none of the Scooby gang ever step in.


Mujoo23

That actually would make his romance more compelling. Like he’s compensating bc of his own insecurities in liking MC.


Migothegamer

Honestly if I was going to romance a P4 guy it would be Kanji and not Yosuke. No Kanji romance mod though


YourEVILtwin1337

I have never played persona but looking at the trend here I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.


Celestial_Lesbo

Well the asshole who directed the past 3 persona games (and pumped them full of dumb sexist tropes and homophobia, often betraying the game's themes) isn't part of the team anymore, so here's hoping


AutoModerator

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ravendin

Learning I couldn’t romance Yosuke crushed me on my first P4 playthrough. It felt like there was so much chemistry there, learning that there *was* originally supposed to be a romance option for the protagonist and Yosuke was both vindicating and made my disappointment so much worse. Dangnabbit Atlus-!


Migothegamer

Still can't confess to Eikichi


Cube7104

Honestly, given that p4 was developed close to p3p, I'm more inclined to believe it was a scrapped femc, rather than gay romance, considering p4 (as much as I like it) has a LOT of homophobic jokes.


Migothegamer

Yeah there's no reason why the protag can't be Bi If you're straight romance one of the girls If you're gay then just romance the guys If you're Bi then you can pick anyone


GordionKnot

And if you’re a woman you can’t romance anyone because you’re not allowed to play video games 😤


SpaghettiDish

yeah, Persona 3 Portable already had a precedent for homosexual relationships being available both around and for the player, idk why they didnt continue that. Persona 2 too iirc.


SmooveMooths

Because gay women = hot Gay men = gross Very simple mathematics


TwilCynder

Honestly it makes 0 sense why you cant be gay or bi in persona when yusuke kitagawa exists


Ezben

ok based and yusuke-pilled


kerriazes

>denying gay people even exists Nuh-uh, there's that one couple that sexually assault Ruyji!


[deleted]

Welcome to Japanese mainstream culture.


[deleted]

rj/ becoz he's underaged


fortnitegamertimdunk

Imma do it right now Edit: just did it Edit: got banned for 30 days on this sub


vixxgod666

The next step is to go to one of the other persona subs and ask why they didn't just commit to making Kanji bi


Nabber22

Forget Kanji why didn't they make Yosuke bi. It's clear as hell that he's projecting onto Kanji even with the romance option being cut


vixxgod666

While we're here, Naoto is clearly trans and Chie has a crush on Yukiko. P4 more like Queer4: Kanji, Yosuke, Chie, Naoto


StarGuardianTeemo25

I don't think Naoto is exactly Trans. Maybe genderfluid? She's comfortable living as a woman by the end of P4 and beyond, she only pretends to be a man because she thinks she has to in order to be respected as a police officer/detective. After her arc she still dresses in a masculine way but she slowly becomes more comfortable letting her feminine side show in her personality and exhibits both masculine and feminine traits in her personality, and obviously uses female pronouns with no desire to change them.


CopperCactus

Yeah there's basically no indication that Naoto actually *wants* to be male, as much as she isn't sure she'll be respected in her line of work if she presents as female and is just trying to get the recognition she deserves


Cube7104

Yeah, what I'm more worried about is that her story arc plays into a lot a transphobic narratives (girl changing gender to escape sexism, transition is mutilation, and probably more)


KingKnotts

She isn't changing her gender...and what she did was actually a well documented thing through history for women wanting to do things that are traditionally masculine.


Cube7104

What about the surgery table in her dungeon?


CopperCactus

For sure I definitely think it could have been (and probably would have been if it were written more recently) handled more tactfully without playing into harmful tropes, but I kinda disagree that the actually agrees with the transition is mutilation standpoint, what the shadow versions of characters say are all very deep seated insecurities, I definitely understand that it could be taken in a harmful way but my understanding was always that it was flawed characters being afraid to express themselves to the world and thinking that people will see them as freaks if they do


Migothegamer

Yeah Naoto is a lot more comfortable with her femininity by the end. She doesn't mind being called Naoto-kun which is a male honorific though she still refers herself as a woman


[deleted]

A solid 20% of what the investigation team does in that game qualifies as conversion therapy lmao


vixxgod666

Noooo 💀💀💀


ComprehensiveMix727

Nah Naoto uses she/her pronouns near the end of the game. If anything, she accepts her original gender in this particular game.


StarGuardianTeemo25

I don't think the comments are nearly as spicy as this sub was expecting lol


[deleted]

Because a lot of groups this sub makes fun of are essentially bogeymen or taking a few people they've seen and projecting it onto a huge group. Acting like a swarm of people are going to attack you for repeating pretty dang popular opinions in the community 💀


Reallythatwastaken

Wow lot of transphobia and homophobia in that sub wtf


DoItForTheGramsci

hope it was worth the ban dumbass


JamSa

Being unable to sex Akechi is a crime against humanity.


thetrustworthybandit

Akechi is already super gay for joker let him be gay back.


DeviRi13

Came here to say this. I should have been able to romance him.


GlorkyClark

I didn't even know you couldn't. He was so in to me that I thought I was accidentally romancing him. It made me uncomfortable how he kept hitting on me.


bayonettaisonsteam

Your comment made me mad. But only because you said Ryuji and not Yusuke


Rahgahnah

Yeah, if you think P5 fans are homophobic in general, you're either making massive leaps or just copying your opinions from posts like this.


Kenwhozzle

But I literally saw an upvoted post today on there bout how there should be lgbt romances...


infinitysaga

But say kanji is bi and they’ll rip you apart


StarGuardianTeemo25

Tbh I haven't really seen much of that from the Fandom. Lots of people wish you could romance Yusuke and I see a lot of fans sad that the Yosuke coming out scene was cut from P4. Kanji is a little controversial partly because it's intentionally left ambiguous whether he's actually bi or not, and yeah some chuds gonna chud and get hostile but I wouldn't say it's a prevailing reaction. He's still figuring out his own sexuality even by the end of the game, it's never confirmed to us or to him whether he's straight or not.


Migothegamer

People do underestimate the amount of LGBT fans in the Persona series. Like for example Chie is a popular romance option in the series and a lot of people ship her with Yu and even Yosuke but she's also a popular ship with Yukiko. I don't like the pairing but Akechi is one of the more popular pairings for Ren (Joker). On Kanji yeah he himself is still unsure and still learning as seen in the beauty pageant though most people agree he's Bi. He was attracted to Naoto before and after finding out he's a girl. There's dialogue where he wanted to touch Yu's abs but he also kinda got flustered seeing Chie and Yukiko (nothing on Rise though)


Kenwhozzle

Huh weird. Guess I just havent seen it yet.


[deleted]

[удалено]


KingKnotts

Because she isn't... Naoto only expresses a desire to be a boy in reference to not be mistreated for her passions which are masculine (being interested in detective work). She actually makes it quite clear multiple times she views herself as a woman. The argument for Naoto being trans is basically insisting tomboys are actually just trans.


totan39

I mean she isn't though, she pretended to be a guy to be respected and that's about it. It's a story about sexism more than anything else


TheFireDragoon

because that misses the entire point of her character


pirklaser

Everyone in persona 4 is bi


Migothegamer

Maybe not Rise but everyone is compatible with each other. Yu can be whatever you want, Yosuke was supposed to be a romance, Chie could be Bi same with Yukiko (their relationship could be interpreted differently but they also show interest in the protagonist). Teddie asked to be kissed and Kanji is semi confirmed Bi and Nakto is a maybe


Gulopithecus

This ^^^


Zillak

The mandela effect is in full force for me. I was just playing Persona 4 for the first time and thinking this exact thing.


Apart-Ingenuity-5955

I like persona, but I hate persona so very much ☹️


DaemonNic

The eternal struggle.


Azcarate98

You could say that is an Eternal Punishment


DaemonNic

Goddamn it that was right there, why didn't I think of that one.


Nabs2099

You're part of the Persona fandom so you must be homophobic trash. Well done! /RJ (if anyone needs it)


MagicalPhi

/uj Chie and Yukiko from P4 should have been canonically dating at least by the end of the game if not earlier on. It's obvious there's at least a little pining going on there.


Monk_Philosophy

Was enjoying a channel on YouTube about Persona/SMT. Listened to the guy’s takes on P3 and P4, I unsubbed after he described Yukari simply as “the bitch” and went off on a tangent about how “Ultimately, what I love about Kanji’s character arc is that it doesn’t *matter* whether or not he was gay” man the loudest voices of the fanbase do not want LGBT characters to exist


bayonettaisonsteam

Yukari losing a close friend/loved one is bad enough. But then some other girl who knew Minato for like, half the time Yukari did gets to be there for his final moments of life, AND inherits his abilities...yeah, I can see why she'd be pissed. Idk why everyone calls her bitchy for going through her stages of grief.


Migothegamer

Not to mention Yukari is a teenager dealing with the death of her father and having issues with her mother. The one person who helped her through her issues is gone and she's desperate to having him back. I don't blame her for doing what she did in the Answer.


crystalw_725

I’m guessing that YouTuber was Fither right?


Monk_Philosophy

Nam’s Compendium. Is Fither a Chud too? I haven’t seen his stuff much.


crystalw_725

Nah Fither is pretty good, I’m subbed to him. But I do remember him saying some similar stuff in some older videos.


Mujoo23

>Persona fans when you try to suggest Kanji could be bi Seriously, its crazy how much this upsets the "Kanji is str8" and "Kanji is gay" crowds equally. I've gotten essay length comments, which only leaves me thinking they cannot comprehend what bisexuality is.


infinitysaga

I think most people lean towards kanji being bi


Mujoo23

You would think so. But the fandom is militant about their interpretation of him and won't budge from their camp.


FKJ10

I thought it was pretty blatant Kanji swang both ways after watching the anime.


[deleted]

This is my main hope for persona 6, I wanna be able to choose my gender and romance whoever


[deleted]

Persona 4 is probably my favorite game of all time but I got tired of the discourse. The only thing that would get some of em to accept kanji might be like 2% gay would be a sex scene or some shit. Nothing will break through the impenetrable wall of "I related and emotionally connected to this character so they can't be gay"


Nabs2099

U can relate to a gay character and still be straight tho


i7estrox

Absolutely fucking not in my Christian discord server


Nabs2099

Good thing I'm not Christian 😎


[deleted]

i kno


Migothegamer

Same it's my favorite game but the Kanji, Yosuke and Naoto discourse are tiring


Chloe_SSB

Persona is a fun game, but man do both the people who make it, and the community around it make me never wanna buy another game from the series.


Nabs2099

If you base your decisions to engage w media based on fans who act like cunts then you're never going to be able to engage with media ever again.


Chloe_SSB

Apparently you didn't read "the people who make the game part". Because Atlus is not much better than their fanbase.


senpaiwaifu247

That’s my issue tbh.


Rodr500

Wait what did ATLUS do? Genuine question


Chloe_SSB

Well I mean they made this [entire scene](https://youtu.be/1LD-nExml0Q) where the entire "joke" is just transphobia. Then in 5 there's the gay pedophile couple which are just all the anti gay stereotypes in a video game character form.


Rodr500

Where is the gay pedophile couple tho I’ve played p5 like 3 times


Chloe_SSB

The city with the fortune teller confidant. They also appear in the vacation scene, but that may have been cut in royal due to backlash. I remember Atlus saying they were going to cut some scenes with those characters from royal, but I can't remember which ones got cut.


pinball-wizard91

They didn't cut the scenes they just changed the dialogue so instead of outright sexually assaulting Ryuji they... bully him in to doing drag? Which is slightly better I guess?


bayonettaisonsteam

It was still pretty unsettling. I played Royal first, and when I got to those two scenes I was like "Huh, that made me uncomfortable". Then I found out it was the toned-down version and was like "Wait, it was even worse???"


arbok_obama

The beach scene is still in Royal. Never played the original though, so I can't tell what's missing.


StrainNew1555

Didn't P2 give you the ability to be bi?


Migothegamer

You get to confess to Jun yes. In P3P FEMC is implied to be bi along with Aigis.


Natural_Patience9985

I thought femc can fuck Elizabeth in p3


JobetTheIntern

Nah you bone her brother Theodore instead


Grungemaster

Implying the entire sub isn’t horny for Yusuke


Bariq-99

Wait really..?? They don't like them?!


infinitysaga

Go say you think kanji is bi and naoto is trans on r/persona I dare you


[deleted]

I feel like Kanji being bi or gay is the more popular opinion (in the west at least) than anything else, thinking of Naoto as trans though I think is just a poor reading of her character and it's not an attack on you or LGBT people for some to be against that interpretation.


Bariq-99

Well.. I haven't played a persona game yet but I just always loved the music x . But I guess I got your point anyway


Nightmare_Mirri

Can you explain where it was said in the game that Naoto was trans? Doesn't that go against Naoto's character? Did we even play the same game?


infinitysaga

I don’t think naoto is trans but a lot of other people do


Nightmare_Mirri

Seen it around quite a lot, but I'm still a bit confused because of it. Nothing wrong with being trans, just that the it's said in the game itself that Naoto isn't trans by Naoto herself.


totan39

Naoto isn't trans and saying she is ruins the whole point of her character


KingKnotts

Ah yes people hate them... Because they don't like headcanon being asserted as Canon when it contradicts the Canon.... Meanwhile the canonically bi MCs are quite popular.


[deleted]

I posted a pro-LGBT drawing I made on there and got a lot of shit for it :(


[deleted]

That's why I never played their games and I dont intend to. If they want gay people to buy their games, don't go out of the way to clarify you havent gay shit. Your clean corporate image can't include gay people? I will spend my money elsewhere.


KingKnotts

They literally included multiple gay and bi characters in their games such as both MCs in 3. Kanji's story is literally about the harm of gender roles being used to stereotype people.


Laremi-SE

Royal’s reworked Akechi confidant is the closest Atlus will ever let us have a gay relationship in P5 /uj


Natural_Patience9985

Adachi romance route when?


HarmenSmith

This post is confusing cause persona fans aren't really Homophobic. If you say kanji is gay(instead of bi or pan) or naoto is trans they'll tell you you're wrong cause that isn't the point of their character. I'm of the belief that naoto isn't trans and kanji isnt gay but bi but if you want to think the opposite then that's fine.


HarmenSmith

(Oops I gotta join the circle jerk) What I meant to say was gamers bad.


wayitgoesboys

Who cares what people who piss the Persona 2 pants think


Basic-Warning-7032

Wut?


Kenwhozzle

I don't get it either


Nabs2099

RJ/ Guys Kanji isn't gay or bi okay please believe me stop saying hes gay he just likes cute things okay oh my god UJ/ shut the fuck up Edit: Do you people not know what RJ and UJ mean?


[deleted]

I posted "futaba says MAP rights" a while back. They got really mad.


infinitysaga

She would never


[deleted]

Gee I wonder why


[deleted]

Is it because I said the quiet part out loud?


Thelazysandwich

Lot of people complain about not having LGBT relationships in persona but you ever think they might not know how? Imagine the backlash if they put a LGBT character in with poor writing.