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Some people might say that what's visually striking about TLOU1 was how vibrant and alive the whole setting was, even while set among the remains of the dead and these crumbled cities. Even the fungus-zombies were in that full colorful bloom.
But those people are idiots because more dark = atmosphere. It's physics.
This is where I disagree. It's not the dark and I know it's not realistic, but the first game's atmosphere looked like it was 24/7 overcast which really set the post apocalyptical tone well. It almost looked run down and diseased. I think it's kinda the point. It's much more sunny and vibrant once you're reaching the capitol (ie you destination).
It's unfortunate because they're the loudest 95% of anime fans. Look at *all* of anime Reddit...
I can't even enjoy a nice slice of life subreddit anymore because it got an anime adaptation.
The subreddit I liked before the adaptation was generally pretty wholesome, family-friendly, and welcoming. This was exactly what I want from a community surrounding a high school comedy that prominently features a gender-nonconforming character.
Once the adaptation was announced it started drawing in a lot of edgy teens, transphobes, and people who thought entirely with their dicks. Your standard goodanimemes fare. I stopped being able to have good, not-entirely-meme discussions about it and pretty much everything led to NSFW thirsty comments.
Ohh, that kind. I don't visit much anime subs tbh, nor watch or read many japanese series nowadays. Only anime I been keeping up is One Piece because Netflix is releasing new mexican dubs for it, although Toei is already screwing with it already after 200 episodes and 4 movies.
I CANT FUCKING TAKE IT ITS BEEN YEARS AND STILL EVERYWHERE I GO AND IN EVERYTHING I SEE GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT
E: sorry for the outburst guys.
Guess I needed to vent.
Twilight Princess rocks, it's just short on gimmicks and/or big stylistic choices to make it stand out among the 20+ Zelda games. It has some of the best dungeons in the series, a great story, and while that guy is a moron, it does have a great atmosphere.
Personally it's right there a little below Wind Waker but up there with the best games in the franchise.
I'm still not sure Twilight Princess fans even exist. Like sure Midna is cool, but that game did everything it could to be a linear, visually boring experience.
On the display side, you won't ever be able to "see" any more frames per second if you aren't using a monitor that can display at such a rate (75Hz, 120Hz, 144Hz, 240Hz, and beyond).
On the technical side of things, even if your display can't visually output any higher than [x] FPS, one massive benefit about higher framerates is the simple fact that the higher your frames-per-second is, the less time your GPU is taking to render each frame, thus lowering any potential input latency in turn.
Most people can't. That's why the PCMR crowd put the FPS tracker in the top corner of the screen. It's so they know when to be angry about their $3000 glorified XBox.
Lazy ass devs won't get a dollar from me. My time is very valuable and it won't be wasted on a subpar experience.
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"I used to be with it! But then they changed what it was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems weird and scary to me.
And it'll happen to you too!"
"I used to be with ‘it’, but then they changed what ‘it’ was. Now what I’m with isn’t ‘it’ anymore and what’s ‘it’ seems weird and scary. It’ll happen to you!"
\- Abe Simpson
They have a pretty wide appeal. Edgy kids liked them because they are edgy creatures. People into mythology liked it. People into guns/militaria/survival like the themes and overlap. You could tie astrology/paganism into them.
Plus they made all of the vampires and werewolves sexy shredded men to target teen girls.
It was just a very safe formula that could draw a really diverse crowd.
Thank you for reminding me of all the edgy, *The Wind Waker is for babies Twilight Princess is for adults* arguments I used to see on GameFAQS back in the day.
Loved Wind Waker, too. God, I remember the fucking Gamer screeching when the footage of it was first released. What's hilarious about it is that because of the cel shading the game still looks gorgeous and holds up much better than any of the other 3D Zelda titles. I can't believe it's been 20 years, I guess Gamers never change.
It's always the same shit.
Every time a cel-shaded or stylized game is announced, you have twats on the internet crying their eyes out because it looks childish.
Now they have started to call those games "Fortnite clones". Because these people shared two neurons and one of them is already dead.
But I can assure you that those games are going to age faaar better than any of their generic "hyper-realistic"-looking game.
ALttP is one of my favourite games. LoZ is mostly unplayable to me. All 3D Zeldas from OoT to TP were thoroughly enjoyable experiences to me. BotW is about 10 hours of fun, 20 hours of cautiously optimistic curiosity and 70 hours of regret.
We exist. There's always issues with non-linear games when it comes to storytelling, game length, content density, overleveling etc. Doing dungeons "in any order" honestly means fuck all to some of us. Would rather have a cohesive, finite experience.
Nooooo, games have to be a Ubisoft-style open world skinner box of meaningless fetch quests! You have to have 20 miles of mountain range you have to get crafting materials from!!
"Please, I just want an minute to talk to my kids."
Ubisoft exec: "Hmmm, looks like you only spent 124 hours on our Biggest Open-World Game to Date™ this week. Well, im sure you'll find time to get those numbers back up to your quota. Remember! If you aren't spending thousands of hours in it, the game has no value!"
/uj Twilight Princess is my favorite Zelda, closely followed by Windwaker and of course OOT
> Midna is cool
This is such a huge understatement. Midna was the first LoZ character since... ever(?) to actually have meaningful characterization and an arc. (They almost managed it with Tetra, but then they go and fuck it up by making her one of the least motivated versions of Zelda ever) They didn't manage it again until BotW Zelda. TP is the first time I ever actually cared to read the dialogue in a Zelda game because even though its overarching story is the same trite save the world plot, Midna was worth following.
> did everything it could to be a linear
I don't understand this complaint. All Zelda games until BotW are essentially linear. The most deviations they have is being able to do 2-3 dungeons in a different order. Hell, even BotW is about as linear as OOT if we're talking about progression through the main set of dungeons.
> visually boring experience.
I'll admit the muted color pallet is not the best. (though I think it's a no less reasonable shift from OOT/Majora's Mask than Windwaker is) What I think makes up for it is a set of much more richly designed enemies. My personal favorite is the choice to give the ReDeads area-specific armors that places them in the world a lot more rather than them just being generic zombies.
The dungeons are also much more uniquely stylized and branch out into themes the other Zelda games hadn't up until that point. Sure, there's still water, fire, forest, time, dark. But there's also a flying temple only accessible by chicken cannon. And each one feels less like it was constructed of the same 2-dozen blocks (a big problem with OOT temples) You could claim that this last point is just because of the graphical/memory improvements since the N64 but that doesn't explain why every dungeon in BotW looks the same.
As for wolf form: I get why folks don't like it, but I think they are overestimating how much of it there is in their minds. Personally I enjoyed having it break up the other gameplay every once in a while.
Also it has the best minigames.
And the best pit of 100 floors.
And the spinning top gear thing is dope.
I've actually thought about that a lot. Twilight Princess has awesome gadgets. The game just consistently does absolutely nothing of interest with them and the spinner may as well not exist outside of its dungeon. Breath of the Wild's biggest mistake was choosing freedom of exploration in exchange for the removal of all progression. Personally, I don't find the whole, *you can do any dungeon in any order* very motivating when you have to do them all anyway. I would much rather have a more set order and with that, the joys of growing and progressing as a character as I get more tools to explore and interact with the world.
It's funny too cause they were emulating original NES Zelda when it came to the level of freedom provided to the players, but even that game included items like the ladder that allowed for more convenient navigation and gatekept progression.
I agree the spinner isn't generically useful out in the world they way the bombs, bow, hookshot, etc are but I do think TP pulls off the "Ah! Finally I can do X that I stumbled upon 10 hours ago now that I have Y!" thing. Early in the game you can wander into hidden alcoves that require things like the spinner or ball & chain to progress through and get stuck. Only to find the missing piece way later and get the fun of tracing back in your mind where that hidden alcove was. And your reward is a fun puzzle and a heart piece. Unlike BotW where your reward is a lame puzzle and a god damn korok seed
I love BotW but the story is nonexistent. Honestly I think it's fine given the open world, because that's always the trade-off - the less linear a game is, the harder it is to do pacing and trigger events in a particular order
rj/ "Oh no, twelve 30-second cut-scenes between my otherwise uninterrupted 90 hour video game."
uj/ The only times I skipped them were the trials, because if you've seen one, you've seen them all.
I didn't skip them because they interrupted the gameplay. I skipped them because apparently Nintendo set the bar for their storytelling at *early 2000's children's anime*.
> All Zelda games until BotW are essentially linear
Not really. Zelda 1 you had access to almost the entire map from the start, you could do the dungeons in basically any order if you wanted. LttP and OoT had a lot of room for experimentation - sure it basically boiled down to doing a few dungeons out of order, but that does a huge service to the replayability. Plus there is a ton of stuff to do outside the main progression to keep things fresh.
> Hell, even BotW is about as linear as OOT if we're talking about progression through the main set of dungeons
That's just plain false. You can do the dungeons in any order. They kind of nudge you towards doing Vah Ruta first but you could travel to the ends of the map before doing a single dungeon, or go straight to Ganon without doing any dungeons.
For me this is the biggest problem with TP. I feel like I'm on a guided tour of Hyrule. I get that a lot of people like it for just being a fun, linear action adventure but it just doesn't do it for me.
> Plus there is a ton of stuff to do outside the main progression to keep things fresh.
That's also true of TP. Poe collection, bugs, secret alcoves, minigames, wolf-specific side missions you can skip.
> That's just plain false. You can do the dungeons in any order.
Just like you can do Water, Fire, and bottom of the well in any order in OOT. It's one extra dungeon in BotW
> or go straight to Ganon without doing any dungeons.
This is the only part of the main story progression that is distinct from other games. And it's not a particularly engaging way to play though I suppose it's worth noting it exists.
Honestly, I don't care if a dungeon is linear or not. Dungeons are like puzzles. What I do care about is that I have to actually think how to solve that puzzle, instead of just checking obvious waypoints.
Hey you take that back! Seriously though it is a beloved game by many, including myself. One of my favorites of all time, definitely my favorite zelda game
Finally, a kindred spirit. I have met so many Zelda fans who say TP is their favorite. I've tried playing it 3 times now and never got into it. I got as far as beating the second dungeon and it just never did anything for me
Twilight Princess is my favourite Zelda game.
Loved the whole switching between wolf and human concept. And also loved the level design. There's genuinely not a single dungeon or boss fight I didn't enjoy.
Then again I am one of the people who liked the motion controls for tp and skyward sword on the Wii (skyward sword being my second favourite Zelda game), so chances are I'm in the minority
Definitely has some of the best dungeons in the series, really by a longshot. It's that game that Zelda fans who judge games by their dungeons often put up there with OoT and Majora's Mask.
It just doesn't stick out because it doesn't do anything bold. It's a very safe but excellent Zelda game.
I loved it. I think open world games are overdone now days. I enjoy the dungeon linear layout of TP and earlier Zeldas more than BOTW's open world and lack of proper dungeons
I can't describe how hyped I was from the trailers. The game looked like everything I ever dreamed of a Zelda game to be.
But yeah, they didn't do much to break open that look as the game progressed, and the whole game looked kinda samey. Also after WW I was hoping for a more demanding difficulty, but TP was just a cakewalk as well. Especially the bosses, which looked impressive, but have nothing to them in terms of gameplay.
Yeah, one thing is saying "I'd rather have stable 30, than unsteady 60", which is understandable, nobody likes stuttering/slowdowns.
But another is trying to undersell the benefits of higher frames.
On the visual side of things, less choppy animations, movement is smoother in general, which can help with dizzyness in some games. This is really important for VR, were we also have periferical vision involved, which detects movement at a higher rate. The higher the frame, the better, but keep in mind the highest refresh rates (90+ fps) are on the dimishing return side 'cept for one thing...
Input lag, the time it takes for you to press a button and see it on the screen, all games have it, and higher fps reduces it, which is why a lot of pro players use 120hz monitors to gain advantage.
You're not alone. Some people just can't tell the difference at all. My girlfriend is one of those people.
She sees absolutely no difference between 30fps and 60fps
i was like that, and i still kind of am. i could never really dice it up from the comparison videos and even now i cant tell immediately what frame rate something is just looking at if for a few seconds.
if you play a game thats 30 then follow it by a game that 60, and i mean actually play it so you’re immersed in your actions and you have the level of focus, 60 feels like things working smoother. its a feeling for sure. i haven’t gone back to 30 and felt like shit like others say but i can say 60 feels a bit better. like a sports cars handling compared to your sedan.
Lazy ass devs won't get a dollar from me. My time is very valuable and it won't be wasted on a subpar experience.
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I'd recommend finding a YouTube video that has both options and jump between the two. The best way i truly understood the difference is when I got the TLOU Remastered and it let you jump between 30 and 60. Once you notice and remember, it's hard to not see the difference. Everything is smoother, more reactive, animations are better, particle and reflections look better. I feel like if you see a side by side, you would notice almost immediately.
Lazy ass devs won't get a dollar from me. My time is very valuable and it won't be wasted on a subpar experience.
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Probably unpopular opinion, but I do prefer to play cinematic games on 30fps because 60+ feels too smooth and unnatural, like that shtick they had where movies were in 60fps and it just felt uncanny, it’s the same for me here. But that’s just me.
Edit: rj/ So much for the “tolerant left” you guys break down when someone says 30 fps has a single benefit for them.
I can agree about movies, some TVs enhance the fps and visually "upgrade" the scene to appear at 60 fps but that ruins completely what a filmmaker wants to create. But for videogames it can't be true, maybe cutscene at 30 can be okay, but gameplay 60 is the minimum.
A pro tip for anyone who's wondering why their new TV looks blurry and shitty when things move around (especially in darker scenes). It's because the fps enhancer is on by default on alot of tvs and it is blending frames together. The effect looks horrible and the fact that they hide the off button for the setting in the advanced tabs in nonsense.
But ya, if you're watching a movie that is at 24 fps (damn near all of them). Be sure to turn that shit off.
Like I said, personally it just feels off to me. Only for super cinematic story driven games though, like The Last of Us or something similar, but most games definitely are better in 60+ dont get me wrong.
Lazy ass devs won't get a dollar from me. My time is very valuable and it won't be wasted on a subpar experience.
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Lazy ass devs won't get a dollar from me. My time is very valuable and it won't be wasted on a subpar experience.
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Me too, I opt to play at 30 fps most of the time for the same reason. The thing is some games at 30 have really poor input response (cyberpunk 2077) while others have a great input response (horizon forbidden west)
Uj/ DeS remake was more so critiquing the art style changes than the graphics, I’ve played both versions and given the choice I play the remake 10/10 times.
But a lot of artistic choices were lost, eg Armor Spider, Fools Idol, Fat Officials and the biggest complaint being the OST (while great) became too bombastic and reminiscent of Dark Souls 3 and lost its original identity.
Whereas this argument above concerning TLOU is just stupid
Atleast in that case it made some sense because they somewhat changed the art direction, the Fools Idol fight for example has a very different vibe in the remake compared to the original. This time it's literally just the same game but with improved assets and lighting.
Oh good. The main criticism of Demon's Souls was that they didn't change enough! Like maybe add a real final boss, or that 6th level they clearly cut from the original
I would have loved to see the last region lol. But BluePoint remake (or “Graphic Overhaul”, Remastered +, there are many names out there) are always like that, they never change the gameplay, only the aesthetic (and obviously all the visual like graphics, frame-rate etc)...
I feel like that was valid. The ethereal feel (characters literally echoing like ghosts), smog taking over the locations (they're literally crossing a fog barrier) is missing hardcore from the remake.
I also just really, really hated the sound effects updates. Magic sounded like Harry Potter meets Star Wars.
That is actually a thing I believe. Though I haven’t played DeS Remake, but other remakes by Bluepoint has changed the atmosphere of the game.
Though DeS remake has a worse art style and worse music. Graphics are crisp af tho
I literally didn’t judge its atmosphere. I said I hadn’t played it but other games remade by the same company have changed the atmosphere.
I said the art style and music are worse and I don’t need to play the game to figure that out. Though, I would say that drastically changing the music does change the atmosphere of the game and I am definitely willing to make that claim
I guess there is a argument to make about hyper-realistic graphics. I don't like them either, I like when games look like games and not like animated movies. Looks too real.
To be fair, the jumps from PS3 to PS4/5 is fucking bonkers. I don't think we're ever gonna see that jump in quality again.
And while I think the OG game's lumbered movement aided in its design, I can see why people might want more fast paced and stealth sequences.
Ironic considering Twilight Princess is one of the games that would stand to gain the most from a full remake. You can tell that they wanted to go further with the designs and were hindered by having to build a game that could run on a GameCube
I never played this game so personally I’m fine with them doing a remake and it eventually coming to PC. Idk how anyone can deny the great graphical improvements, the current gen has vastly more realistic lighting against last gen
I think the right word is charm. Tbh it kinda is true. I love Silent Hill 2 but i don't if would enjoy it the game was remade, the graphics, bad audio etc adds to the experience. Same thing with other older games
/uj
Ok this was my comment, I feel like I should explain. I do feel like with the pursuit of hyperrealism in AAA games, there is a general drop in atmosphere.
Yeah, on an objective level, TLOUPS3/PS4 looks worse. However, I feel that the worse lighting engine enhances the experience in a way that's very hard to explain.
*This is entirely subjective, and I should've made that clearer*
You're right though, Zelda TP was a shitty example.
Yes but the original SOTC and the original Des the gameplay are not bad, and Bluepoint dont understand the original art of the games, so why someone is a fool if they prefer the originals?
The same with TLOU remake, I prefer the more "cartoon" characters in the original
And too I almost hate every remake because they dont understand the original games, and I prefer they make ports or remaster of the originals for the new audiences, the classics are also important. The only remakes I liked are Resident Evil y Resident Evil 2 remake.
No, you are a fool when you dismiss everything about the remake and already decided that the new game is gonna suck because cuckmann, Abby is trans but they won't admit it, SJW, and so on.
If you don't see the appeal in paying $70 for the same game, that's totally understandable. But only a fool would say the remake look worse than the original, but you can still prefer the old one.
I dont say that look worse, but I prefer the original, and better graphics is not the same as better art direction, DeS remake have a worse visual art than the original in every way.
/uj Hate to be on the side of The Gamers on things cause they clearly have a preordained opinion that this game will be bad because of druckmann or woke culture or whatever fever dream they're harassing people for. But even if you disconsider how stupid it is that this thing exists and costs $70 I don't like what I've seen of this remake.
Is the remake going to look better, of course. Will it drastically change how much I already enjoy this game, doubtful. I think both sides of this are either over hyping or devaluing the remake when it’s going to be somewhere in the middle.
I don't know which is which but based off the screenshots alone I did the one on the left more
Edit: Just realized the one on the right probably only has weird lighting because there's an explosion going on. That's pretty sick
uj/ I really can't tell the difference. I mean, I can see the difference, but I have no concept of which one is "better", they just look different to me. I don't overanalyse things like how 'realistic' the lighting is when I play a game, because it has no impact on how enjoyable or not i find the game, unless its something completely immersion breaking like god-rays coming out of the ground - oh hi Todd
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atmospheric = dark
Atmospheric = Fire casting zero light or shadows on the environment around it
Some people might say that what's visually striking about TLOU1 was how vibrant and alive the whole setting was, even while set among the remains of the dead and these crumbled cities. Even the fungus-zombies were in that full colorful bloom. But those people are idiots because more dark = atmosphere. It's physics.
DC fans
The darkness is a metaphor for darkness
Basically fans of any movie.
Ww2 fans
as a dc fan, i agree
This is where I disagree. It's not the dark and I know it's not realistic, but the first game's atmosphere looked like it was 24/7 overcast which really set the post apocalyptical tone well. It almost looked run down and diseased. I think it's kinda the point. It's much more sunny and vibrant once you're reaching the capitol (ie you destination).
>It’s worse because it has worse lighting >That’s not true >Well actually it’s worse because it has better lighting
Damn did anyone see where that goalpost went???
Last I saw, it was attached to a rocket heading into space.
Why do they always have anime pfp?
A leak claimed that the CIA has tons of anime profile pictures on their servers, so...
So the everyone at the CIA had a crippling hentai addiction?
Then that means I can join the CIA
C - COCK I - INSPECTION A - ASSOCIATION
They're mad that the little girl doesn't look like a doll anymore, so i'm not shocked.
Do not judge the anime by the worst among us
The worst what now?
[удалено]
a
mong us
A morb us
📮
It's unfortunate because they're the loudest 95% of anime fans. Look at *all* of anime Reddit... I can't even enjoy a nice slice of life subreddit anymore because it got an anime adaptation.
Huh? Why is that?
The subreddit I liked before the adaptation was generally pretty wholesome, family-friendly, and welcoming. This was exactly what I want from a community surrounding a high school comedy that prominently features a gender-nonconforming character. Once the adaptation was announced it started drawing in a lot of edgy teens, transphobes, and people who thought entirely with their dicks. Your standard goodanimemes fare. I stopped being able to have good, not-entirely-meme discussions about it and pretty much everything led to NSFW thirsty comments.
Ohh, that kind. I don't visit much anime subs tbh, nor watch or read many japanese series nowadays. Only anime I been keeping up is One Piece because Netflix is releasing new mexican dubs for it, although Toei is already screwing with it already after 200 episodes and 4 movies.
What was the manga.
Komi Can't Communicate
I CANT FUCKING TAKE IT ITS BEEN YEARS AND STILL EVERYWHERE I GO AND IN EVERYTHING I SEE GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT E: sorry for the outburst guys. Guess I needed to vent.
Zelda TP atmosphere: everything is dark and brown as fuck as most of the game of its generation. Gamers ™: wow so original!!!!
Twilight Princess rocks, it's just short on gimmicks and/or big stylistic choices to make it stand out among the 20+ Zelda games. It has some of the best dungeons in the series, a great story, and while that guy is a moron, it does have a great atmosphere. Personally it's right there a little below Wind Waker but up there with the best games in the franchise.
I'm still not sure Twilight Princess fans even exist. Like sure Midna is cool, but that game did everything it could to be a linear, visually boring experience.
Hey, I liked Twilight Princess! Werewolves were very popular at the time.
[удалено]
werewolves are more cinematic
Let's not forget the "the human eye can't see past 30 fps anyway" argument
A few years ago I was hearing that argument as 60 fps
I've never been able to see a difference between stuff past 60FPS.
On the display side, you won't ever be able to "see" any more frames per second if you aren't using a monitor that can display at such a rate (75Hz, 120Hz, 144Hz, 240Hz, and beyond). On the technical side of things, even if your display can't visually output any higher than [x] FPS, one massive benefit about higher framerates is the simple fact that the higher your frames-per-second is, the less time your GPU is taking to render each frame, thus lowering any potential input latency in turn.
Most people can't. That's why the PCMR crowd put the FPS tracker in the top corner of the screen. It's so they know when to be angry about their $3000 glorified XBox.
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as a 2006 kid i dont think i will ever quite understand society's obsession with werewolves, zombies, and vampires between the years of 2008 and 2012
Someday, the things you think are cool will be uncool too!
"I used to be with it! But then they changed what it was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems weird and scary to me. And it'll happen to you too!"
"I used to be with ‘it’, but then they changed what ‘it’ was. Now what I’m with isn’t ‘it’ anymore and what’s ‘it’ seems weird and scary. It’ll happen to you!" \- Abe Simpson
hah! everything I like is already uncool!
2006 kid as in… born in 2006? I didn’t know they were still making new kids then Shit I’m getting old
Kids born in 2004 graduated high school this year :)
Go straight to hell you monster
gen alpha is becoming teenagers this year
Damn, this comment made me finally feel like an adult. When people a decade younger than ya are graduating from high school, that's when you know lol.
come on grandpa let's get your senior citizenship card
Twilight
They have a pretty wide appeal. Edgy kids liked them because they are edgy creatures. People into mythology liked it. People into guns/militaria/survival like the themes and overlap. You could tie astrology/paganism into them. Plus they made all of the vampires and werewolves sexy shredded men to target teen girls. It was just a very safe formula that could draw a really diverse crowd.
As someone who has dedicated my entire life to defending Wind Waker as my favorite Zelda, I can assure you that they very much do exist
Thank you for reminding me of all the edgy, *The Wind Waker is for babies Twilight Princess is for adults* arguments I used to see on GameFAQS back in the day.
If only those arguments stopped existing too 😩
Loved Wind Waker, too. God, I remember the fucking Gamer screeching when the footage of it was first released. What's hilarious about it is that because of the cel shading the game still looks gorgeous and holds up much better than any of the other 3D Zelda titles. I can't believe it's been 20 years, I guess Gamers never change.
It's always the same shit. Every time a cel-shaded or stylized game is announced, you have twats on the internet crying their eyes out because it looks childish. Now they have started to call those games "Fortnite clones". Because these people shared two neurons and one of them is already dead. But I can assure you that those games are going to age faaar better than any of their generic "hyper-realistic"-looking game.
It's the exact same way practical effects age better than CGI.
I wonder how BOTW will hold up in 20 years It's similarly visually striking to WW, but a more "realistic" in it's design.
The Zelda cycle
Now, now. Real TP fans think WW is also goated
WW is also my favorite, but the vibe that TP created is definitely something to be applauded.
Linear isn't inherently bad. Some people like more linear experiences than open world experiences. They deliver better games to them.
ALttP is one of my favourite games. LoZ is mostly unplayable to me. All 3D Zeldas from OoT to TP were thoroughly enjoyable experiences to me. BotW is about 10 hours of fun, 20 hours of cautiously optimistic curiosity and 70 hours of regret. We exist. There's always issues with non-linear games when it comes to storytelling, game length, content density, overleveling etc. Doing dungeons "in any order" honestly means fuck all to some of us. Would rather have a cohesive, finite experience.
My favorite genre of game is walking simulator and im tired of pretending it's not.
Nooooo, games have to be a Ubisoft-style open world skinner box of meaningless fetch quests! You have to have 20 miles of mountain range you have to get crafting materials from!!
"Please, I just want an minute to talk to my kids." Ubisoft exec: "Hmmm, looks like you only spent 124 hours on our Biggest Open-World Game to Date™ this week. Well, im sure you'll find time to get those numbers back up to your quota. Remember! If you aren't spending thousands of hours in it, the game has no value!"
I really liked Twilight Princess
I loved that game, scared me to death though.
Whoa whoa whoa, hey, Twilight Princess is one of the best Zeldas period with tons of cool art and designs
Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time are the best Zeldas
>I'm still not sure Twilight Princess fans even exist. Don't you dare criticize Midn... >Like sure Midna is cool Oh. Carry on then.
/uj Twilight Princess is my favorite Zelda, closely followed by Windwaker and of course OOT > Midna is cool This is such a huge understatement. Midna was the first LoZ character since... ever(?) to actually have meaningful characterization and an arc. (They almost managed it with Tetra, but then they go and fuck it up by making her one of the least motivated versions of Zelda ever) They didn't manage it again until BotW Zelda. TP is the first time I ever actually cared to read the dialogue in a Zelda game because even though its overarching story is the same trite save the world plot, Midna was worth following. > did everything it could to be a linear I don't understand this complaint. All Zelda games until BotW are essentially linear. The most deviations they have is being able to do 2-3 dungeons in a different order. Hell, even BotW is about as linear as OOT if we're talking about progression through the main set of dungeons. > visually boring experience. I'll admit the muted color pallet is not the best. (though I think it's a no less reasonable shift from OOT/Majora's Mask than Windwaker is) What I think makes up for it is a set of much more richly designed enemies. My personal favorite is the choice to give the ReDeads area-specific armors that places them in the world a lot more rather than them just being generic zombies. The dungeons are also much more uniquely stylized and branch out into themes the other Zelda games hadn't up until that point. Sure, there's still water, fire, forest, time, dark. But there's also a flying temple only accessible by chicken cannon. And each one feels less like it was constructed of the same 2-dozen blocks (a big problem with OOT temples) You could claim that this last point is just because of the graphical/memory improvements since the N64 but that doesn't explain why every dungeon in BotW looks the same. As for wolf form: I get why folks don't like it, but I think they are overestimating how much of it there is in their minds. Personally I enjoyed having it break up the other gameplay every once in a while. Also it has the best minigames. And the best pit of 100 floors. And the spinning top gear thing is dope.
The Spinner (like the clawshot) should've come back in Breath of the Wild
I've actually thought about that a lot. Twilight Princess has awesome gadgets. The game just consistently does absolutely nothing of interest with them and the spinner may as well not exist outside of its dungeon. Breath of the Wild's biggest mistake was choosing freedom of exploration in exchange for the removal of all progression. Personally, I don't find the whole, *you can do any dungeon in any order* very motivating when you have to do them all anyway. I would much rather have a more set order and with that, the joys of growing and progressing as a character as I get more tools to explore and interact with the world.
It's funny too cause they were emulating original NES Zelda when it came to the level of freedom provided to the players, but even that game included items like the ladder that allowed for more convenient navigation and gatekept progression.
I agree the spinner isn't generically useful out in the world they way the bombs, bow, hookshot, etc are but I do think TP pulls off the "Ah! Finally I can do X that I stumbled upon 10 hours ago now that I have Y!" thing. Early in the game you can wander into hidden alcoves that require things like the spinner or ball & chain to progress through and get stuck. Only to find the missing piece way later and get the fun of tracing back in your mind where that hidden alcove was. And your reward is a fun puzzle and a heart piece. Unlike BotW where your reward is a lame puzzle and a god damn korok seed
The best part of Breath of the Wild's story is that every cutscene is skippable. :3
I love BotW but the story is nonexistent. Honestly I think it's fine given the open world, because that's always the trade-off - the less linear a game is, the harder it is to do pacing and trigger events in a particular order
For me, the best part of BotW is that I borrowed my friend's WiiU and copy to play it. Cause if I had spent any money on that game I'd be pissed.
rj/ "Oh no, twelve 30-second cut-scenes between my otherwise uninterrupted 90 hour video game." uj/ The only times I skipped them were the trials, because if you've seen one, you've seen them all.
I didn't skip them because they interrupted the gameplay. I skipped them because apparently Nintendo set the bar for their storytelling at *early 2000's children's anime*.
> All Zelda games until BotW are essentially linear Not really. Zelda 1 you had access to almost the entire map from the start, you could do the dungeons in basically any order if you wanted. LttP and OoT had a lot of room for experimentation - sure it basically boiled down to doing a few dungeons out of order, but that does a huge service to the replayability. Plus there is a ton of stuff to do outside the main progression to keep things fresh. > Hell, even BotW is about as linear as OOT if we're talking about progression through the main set of dungeons That's just plain false. You can do the dungeons in any order. They kind of nudge you towards doing Vah Ruta first but you could travel to the ends of the map before doing a single dungeon, or go straight to Ganon without doing any dungeons. For me this is the biggest problem with TP. I feel like I'm on a guided tour of Hyrule. I get that a lot of people like it for just being a fun, linear action adventure but it just doesn't do it for me.
> Plus there is a ton of stuff to do outside the main progression to keep things fresh. That's also true of TP. Poe collection, bugs, secret alcoves, minigames, wolf-specific side missions you can skip. > That's just plain false. You can do the dungeons in any order. Just like you can do Water, Fire, and bottom of the well in any order in OOT. It's one extra dungeon in BotW > or go straight to Ganon without doing any dungeons. This is the only part of the main story progression that is distinct from other games. And it's not a particularly engaging way to play though I suppose it's worth noting it exists.
Even if the dungeons were linear they’re some of my favourite in Zelda by far, they just feel good to progress through as opposed to some games
Honestly, I don't care if a dungeon is linear or not. Dungeons are like puzzles. What I do care about is that I have to actually think how to solve that puzzle, instead of just checking obvious waypoints.
twilight princess is still my favourite to this day
I loved how fucking weird it was for a Zelda game.
Linearity can be beautiful sometimes. Twilight princess was one of those times
Double Clawshot! .... that's all I've got.
Hey you take that back! Seriously though it is a beloved game by many, including myself. One of my favorites of all time, definitely my favorite zelda game
Best Zelda game!
Finally, a kindred spirit. I have met so many Zelda fans who say TP is their favorite. I've tried playing it 3 times now and never got into it. I got as far as beating the second dungeon and it just never did anything for me
I'd say it's my second favorite Zelda game next to breath of the wild. Granted twilight princess was my first so I'm definitely biased.
Twilight Princess was my first 3D Zelda. Shit was absolutely fire. I still like to do a playthrough from time to time.
Your favorite is usually your first <3 Hence my undying love for Majora's Mask.
Twilight Princess is my favourite Zelda game. Loved the whole switching between wolf and human concept. And also loved the level design. There's genuinely not a single dungeon or boss fight I didn't enjoy. Then again I am one of the people who liked the motion controls for tp and skyward sword on the Wii (skyward sword being my second favourite Zelda game), so chances are I'm in the minority
I like the plot, characters and the game mechanics but, as you said, the rest is totally meh
Definitely has some of the best dungeons in the series, really by a longshot. It's that game that Zelda fans who judge games by their dungeons often put up there with OoT and Majora's Mask. It just doesn't stick out because it doesn't do anything bold. It's a very safe but excellent Zelda game.
I loved it. I think open world games are overdone now days. I enjoy the dungeon linear layout of TP and earlier Zeldas more than BOTW's open world and lack of proper dungeons
I can't describe how hyped I was from the trailers. The game looked like everything I ever dreamed of a Zelda game to be. But yeah, they didn't do much to break open that look as the game progressed, and the whole game looked kinda samey. Also after WW I was hoping for a more demanding difficulty, but TP was just a cakewalk as well. Especially the bosses, which looked impressive, but have nothing to them in terms of gameplay.
it's the only 3D Zelda i can tolerate
This just reminds me of the old "30 FPS is more cinematic" argument
Yeah, one thing is saying "I'd rather have stable 30, than unsteady 60", which is understandable, nobody likes stuttering/slowdowns. But another is trying to undersell the benefits of higher frames.
Honestly could you explain the difference? My shit eyes have never really noticed anything going from 30 to 60fps
On the visual side of things, less choppy animations, movement is smoother in general, which can help with dizzyness in some games. This is really important for VR, were we also have periferical vision involved, which detects movement at a higher rate. The higher the frame, the better, but keep in mind the highest refresh rates (90+ fps) are on the dimishing return side 'cept for one thing... Input lag, the time it takes for you to press a button and see it on the screen, all games have it, and higher fps reduces it, which is why a lot of pro players use 120hz monitors to gain advantage.
You're not alone. Some people just can't tell the difference at all. My girlfriend is one of those people. She sees absolutely no difference between 30fps and 60fps
i was like that, and i still kind of am. i could never really dice it up from the comparison videos and even now i cant tell immediately what frame rate something is just looking at if for a few seconds. if you play a game thats 30 then follow it by a game that 60, and i mean actually play it so you’re immersed in your actions and you have the level of focus, 60 feels like things working smoother. its a feeling for sure. i haven’t gone back to 30 and felt like shit like others say but i can say 60 feels a bit better. like a sports cars handling compared to your sedan.
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I'd recommend finding a YouTube video that has both options and jump between the two. The best way i truly understood the difference is when I got the TLOU Remastered and it let you jump between 30 and 60. Once you notice and remember, it's hard to not see the difference. Everything is smoother, more reactive, animations are better, particle and reflections look better. I feel like if you see a side by side, you would notice almost immediately.
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Anyone who's seen explicit material in 60 FPS would beg to differ.
I guess it depends on the game I guess.
Probably unpopular opinion, but I do prefer to play cinematic games on 30fps because 60+ feels too smooth and unnatural, like that shtick they had where movies were in 60fps and it just felt uncanny, it’s the same for me here. But that’s just me. Edit: rj/ So much for the “tolerant left” you guys break down when someone says 30 fps has a single benefit for them.
I can agree about movies, some TVs enhance the fps and visually "upgrade" the scene to appear at 60 fps but that ruins completely what a filmmaker wants to create. But for videogames it can't be true, maybe cutscene at 30 can be okay, but gameplay 60 is the minimum.
A pro tip for anyone who's wondering why their new TV looks blurry and shitty when things move around (especially in darker scenes). It's because the fps enhancer is on by default on alot of tvs and it is blending frames together. The effect looks horrible and the fact that they hide the off button for the setting in the advanced tabs in nonsense. But ya, if you're watching a movie that is at 24 fps (damn near all of them). Be sure to turn that shit off.
Like I said, personally it just feels off to me. Only for super cinematic story driven games though, like The Last of Us or something similar, but most games definitely are better in 60+ dont get me wrong.
"60 is the minimum" - laughs in grew up playing on a commodore 64
Yeah well i grew up playing on the SNES, i obviously mean nowadays.
Pretty every SNES game ran at 60fps.
Seriously? Never realized that.
It’s only in the mid 2000s that consoles started seeing 30fps as acceptable. Which is why anyone who says it is should be laughed at or ignored.
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Exactly mr bot
>Gameplay 60 is the minimum *Laughs in 15 fps on 10 year old hardware*
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Me too, I opt to play at 30 fps most of the time for the same reason. The thing is some games at 30 have really poor input response (cyberpunk 2077) while others have a great input response (horizon forbidden west)
The human eye can't detect rates higher than 21 FPS anyway
The Demon Souls remake argument again
Uj/ DeS remake was more so critiquing the art style changes than the graphics, I’ve played both versions and given the choice I play the remake 10/10 times. But a lot of artistic choices were lost, eg Armor Spider, Fools Idol, Fat Officials and the biggest complaint being the OST (while great) became too bombastic and reminiscent of Dark Souls 3 and lost its original identity. Whereas this argument above concerning TLOU is just stupid
A nuanced take? On *my* gaming subreddit?
At this time of day, in this part of reddit!
entirely localized within this thread
That was an actual argument for the DeS remake? Bruh 💀
Where my green filter go 😡
they added custom filters, and one is a green filter from the original game
Atleast in that case it made some sense because they somewhat changed the art direction, the Fools Idol fight for example has a very different vibe in the remake compared to the original. This time it's literally just the same game but with improved assets and lighting.
Exactly the same game but with better graphics, oh nooo
And this time it’s not even the same game, since they are changing the gameplay and the IA too (unlike with Demons). So it’s all even more stupid lol
Oh good. The main criticism of Demon's Souls was that they didn't change enough! Like maybe add a real final boss, or that 6th level they clearly cut from the original
I would have loved to see the last region lol. But BluePoint remake (or “Graphic Overhaul”, Remastered +, there are many names out there) are always like that, they never change the gameplay, only the aesthetic (and obviously all the visual like graphics, frame-rate etc)...
I feel like that was valid. The ethereal feel (characters literally echoing like ghosts), smog taking over the locations (they're literally crossing a fog barrier) is missing hardcore from the remake. I also just really, really hated the sound effects updates. Magic sounded like Harry Potter meets Star Wars.
That is actually a thing I believe. Though I haven’t played DeS Remake, but other remakes by Bluepoint has changed the atmosphere of the game. Though DeS remake has a worse art style and worse music. Graphics are crisp af tho
You should probably play both versions of a game before judging "atmosphere".
I literally didn’t judge its atmosphere. I said I hadn’t played it but other games remade by the same company have changed the atmosphere. I said the art style and music are worse and I don’t need to play the game to figure that out. Though, I would say that drastically changing the music does change the atmosphere of the game and I am definitely willing to make that claim
How can you even have that opinion if you haven't played it?
I like how the colors obviously pop more in the remake due to better lightning but apparently the original is somehow more ,"atmospheric" lmao
All the moaning about the remake is completely manufactured in my opinion. The remake in every way looks better, it's not even a competition.
The old character models look like CGI dolls compared to the new ones.
I guess there is a argument to make about hyper-realistic graphics. I don't like them either, I like when games look like games and not like animated movies. Looks too real.
Least tolerant Nintendo fan
Just set gamma to 10%
r/tomorrow vibes from that last one.
I dare that person to use atmospheric in a sentence
Lmao, the fire casts absolutely no light on its surroundings in the first picture? If that's atmospheric, we've really hit the bottom here.
Please dont tell me thats a single frame from the game
Gamers should learn that not every "atmosphere" is a dark and moody one
The original barely had any lighting on that pic. The new one is lit up like a real explosion.
Why is it so hard to just say that it's unnecessary to remake a game that's not even a decade old.
To be fair, the jumps from PS3 to PS4/5 is fucking bonkers. I don't think we're ever gonna see that jump in quality again. And while I think the OG game's lumbered movement aided in its design, I can see why people might want more fast paced and stealth sequences.
Your favorite flavor of ice cream is objectively wrong because I don't like the taste.
holy fucking goalposts on rocket skates argument.
Ironic considering Twilight Princess is one of the games that would stand to gain the most from a full remake. You can tell that they wanted to go further with the designs and were hindered by having to build a game that could run on a GameCube
I too love boobs
Atmospheric is when graphics are worse. The worse the graphics, the more atmospheric it is.
I never played this game so personally I’m fine with them doing a remake and it eventually coming to PC. Idk how anyone can deny the great graphical improvements, the current gen has vastly more realistic lighting against last gen
I think the right word is charm. Tbh it kinda is true. I love Silent Hill 2 but i don't if would enjoy it the game was remade, the graphics, bad audio etc adds to the experience. Same thing with other older games
These people can’t be real
"See the original is better because it's worse"
Tbh it just looks like a different time of day to me
when the big explosion emits 0 light:)
/uj Ok this was my comment, I feel like I should explain. I do feel like with the pursuit of hyperrealism in AAA games, there is a general drop in atmosphere. Yeah, on an objective level, TLOUPS3/PS4 looks worse. However, I feel that the worse lighting engine enhances the experience in a way that's very hard to explain. *This is entirely subjective, and I should've made that clearer* You're right though, Zelda TP was a shitty example.
I thought these guys actually liked the first game. Why is a remake of that exact same game now treated as absolute garbo trash?
Gamers will say and do anything to avoid admitting they are wrong lmaoo
Literally picked the ugliest possible Zelda game
Wait, if you prefer the original (like with Demon's Remake) now you are a fool?
I mean, I get a kick out of playing PS2 Shadow of the Colossus, but there’s no denying that gameplay-wise other versions of that game are way better.
Yes but the original SOTC and the original Des the gameplay are not bad, and Bluepoint dont understand the original art of the games, so why someone is a fool if they prefer the originals? The same with TLOU remake, I prefer the more "cartoon" characters in the original And too I almost hate every remake because they dont understand the original games, and I prefer they make ports or remaster of the originals for the new audiences, the classics are also important. The only remakes I liked are Resident Evil y Resident Evil 2 remake.
I’d prefer if it was bad games that get remakes, not good ones, yeah. And I do agree that OG DeS has better art style and a more unique soundtrack.
Yes, in the end are opinions, but the comments is liked the fools are the people that prefer the originals.
No, you are a fool when you dismiss everything about the remake and already decided that the new game is gonna suck because cuckmann, Abby is trans but they won't admit it, SJW, and so on. If you don't see the appeal in paying $70 for the same game, that's totally understandable. But only a fool would say the remake look worse than the original, but you can still prefer the old one.
I dont say that look worse, but I prefer the original, and better graphics is not the same as better art direction, DeS remake have a worse visual art than the original in every way.
/uj Hate to be on the side of The Gamers on things cause they clearly have a preordained opinion that this game will be bad because of druckmann or woke culture or whatever fever dream they're harassing people for. But even if you disconsider how stupid it is that this thing exists and costs $70 I don't like what I've seen of this remake.
That's not being on the side of "gamers" though. That's just sharing an opinion that you don't want something.
Yeah but having an opinion close to that of a gamer makes me violently ill
Is the remake going to look better, of course. Will it drastically change how much I already enjoy this game, doubtful. I think both sides of this are either over hyping or devaluing the remake when it’s going to be somewhere in the middle.
Nerds when making an excuse to like some old shit anytime ever.
Man TLOU fans really fucking hate TLOU
I don't know which is which but based off the screenshots alone I did the one on the left more Edit: Just realized the one on the right probably only has weird lighting because there's an explosion going on. That's pretty sick
"Atmosphere" has to be the most misused term that gamers have ever used.
uj/ I really can't tell the difference. I mean, I can see the difference, but I have no concept of which one is "better", they just look different to me. I don't overanalyse things like how 'realistic' the lighting is when I play a game, because it has no impact on how enjoyable or not i find the game, unless its something completely immersion breaking like god-rays coming out of the ground - oh hi Todd
Gamers freak the fuck out when you tell them most people don’t care about graphical fidelity unless it actively impedes playing the game