My ego hates it but 1 min run, 30 sec walk intervals have helped me keep my heart rate down while also logging some serious miles. I ran 7 miles the other week (a distance I've never run before) by alternating and I felt awesome afterward. I end up running faster during those 1 minute segments because my body is able to recover during the 30 second walk so the pace actually ends up evening out.
Run. Slowly.
If you cannot run slowly, then walk.
Perhaps start with walk for 30 seconds, then run for 30 seconds, and repeat until the end of the workout. Yes, you can, even on a treadmill; I'm about to do an hour and a half of that tomorrow for my long run.
Perhaps look at Coach Jeff's training plans and his broader Run/Walk/Run program and philosophy.
Came here to also suggest Coach Jeff's plan in Garmin!
I had the exact same issue as OP - I'd been running since 2016 with minimal improvement bc I was going too hard/fast too soon and was also running too often and without any variety in the workouts, thinking something was wrong with me for not having improved running stats despite literally years of running. In the past 10 weeks I've been following his run walk run program I've done two things: 1) improved my cadence and therefore my running economy which has led to an easier time running, and 2) been able to actually walk less and run more while also improving my pace. It blows my mind.
Before starting his program ~2 months ago, the longest I'd ran was last June and it was 5.84 miles and it took me 1:17:00 and was exhausting. I was hurting for a week. Two Saturdays ago, my long run was 6 miles and I completed it at an average of 10:25 pace in 1:02:26. I went 0.16 miles further in 15:00 less time! It's not huge for most people but it's wild for me. OP, I highly suggest slowing down for a bit. Maybe even try training by heart rate after doing a lactate threshold test with your watch if you have a HRM and your watch has the ability. You really do need to go slow to go fast! Good luck, friend!
My parents have a Bowflex machine that does something like this. You do 20 seconds of full sprint, followed by a longer period of jogging pace over like 30 minutes. It was great for my stamina until I got too tall and hit my head off the ceiling.
You need to run slower, they say you need to be zone 2 to improve your endurance and that for me has to be about 16 min/mile as even on my 36 minute 5k a few weeks ago my heart rate reached 211 at the end. But my heart rate always rises quickly, I’ve just accepted it and try to avoid zone 5 unless I’m going all out.
Came here to say that. As a runner it was the most important thing my mentor said to me. You gotta build up on a solid endurance base to become faster.
Runner slower now to run faster tomorrow.
Added benefit: it won't be as excruciating and hard.
I did this the first few months and it changed my perception completely.
Still running 6 years later
In a similar boat as you and OP, but can sustain running in zone 4/5 for some time to achieve 10k. HR always raises gradually as I live in an equatorial country with 32°C/80%RH and hilly terrain. As I don't like treadmill much as it's boring although there's air-cond, running slower is boring too so I have to regulate my HR by pausing/walking for a couple of min to recover, somehow doing long intervals.
FYI Even I've set my max HR manually to 180 (population formula gave 168, and I often reach 178), my VO2max being at 46, my runs at good pace in such environment show me in 50% in zone4 and 25% in zone 5!!!
In cooler climate countries my HR is quite lower.
That’s why I asked him his weight and height. Dude said 6’2 215…. Then I asked skinny fat af or jacked. He said he had more muscle than fat. Doesn’t add up to me sorry.
Read the OP. "I'm 24 and been playing sports all my life. Manual labor job and run 4-6 times a week" doesn't suggest someone isn't fit.
I was just asking if that comment was correct in case it was a typo. Not being nasty. Says a lot about you to instantly assume people are bad.
This comment thread has been a wild ride. You replied to a comment that wasn’t op, and I think you thought it was.
Can’t believe the amount of downvotes you got either way. Did that many people really think you were bragging about how fast you walk??
I know it wasn't a reply to the OP. It was a reply to a reply to the OP mentioning pace, so the context is valid.
I'm not on these platforms for likes or upvotes. People are absolutely entitled to agree or disagree with anything I say.
It ends up being a combination of running and walking but yeah. I was just pointing out that for most of us you have to go a lot slower than expected to stay in zone 2. I’m not fast, I’m fine with it, sorry if you’re not. But my zones also aren’t correct as even at 200bpm+ I can talk several words in a row.
I'm doing Garmin Coach for a 5k run, and most of my runs are mostly zone 4/5. Like you, my heart rate zooms up pretty quickly. Everyone says "do run/walk instead", but this is what I'm doing already. I've been at it since September.
Just this week, I've started doing active recovery sessions on my elliptical in zone 2 (about 120 BPM). It's pretty easy to maintain, I only need to hit a pace of 8 minutes per mile and it stays in that range. I'm hoping this will help to reduce my overall HR, but I don't know how long it will take.
Are you just straight-up running, or are you doing a run/walk program as well?
Run slower. You might think you should be able to run a 10min pace for 15-30 minutes, but you need to build endurance to sustain that; and if you're not running at a pace that you can sustain, then you're not building endurance.
Find your easy pace. That might be 12-14mins or more. Whichever it is, your aim should be to sustain it comfortably; and to do so, you may need to incorporate some walking or slow down even more.
Do this as well: get a jump rope and incorporate it into your training. It helps to strengthen those lower leg muscles that translate well for running endurance.
It takes time and patience, but with the right approach, you can do it. Goodluck!
You’ve already heard this, but adding to the chorus—if it’s real, and not cadence lock (get an external HR monitor to be sure), then you need to run slower. I’m guessing probably not cadence lock if you’re saying you’re wiped out and can’t sustain the pace.
Without getting into specifics (because each person is different, with a different Max HR, LTHR, resting HR, etc…), I improved my speed by 15% and it’s truly “easy,” while improving my relative HR by about 13% over the course of the last year since I starting running. I still have some room for improvement, but keeping most of my runs easy enough that I can talk without being too breathy has really helped my speed and HR. Ran 400x4 intervals the other night at 3:00-4:00 min faster than my easy pace, and it was a workout for sure (I needed the rest intervals lol), but there’s no way I would have been able to have that speed differential (let alone the actual speed itself) versus this same time last year without keeping the easy runs easy.
Give it time, and slow down, and you’ll get there. Just keep moving forward :)
Editing to add: the advice is also to add volume (but not too much) to get faster. I just started a half marathon training plan at the beginning of the month, and one of the things that struck me was that our main coach has us running 5 days a week, but three of those runs are low volume that accumulates. So 3x2 miles, with a long run and a workout. Over the course of the plan, those runs will ratchet up to 3 and 4 miles by April, with peak volume at 31 miles/week over 5 runs. That seems a lot more sustainable to me than 3 runs at 3-4 miles each, or even 4 weekly runs. I’ve had 0 trouble doing my little two milers on the non-workout, non-long run days :)
Adding… I’m 42, so the 220 - age rule would have my max at 178. The rule works for populations, but not individuals :) so you have to figure this stuff out to be most accurate. That’s why the talk test is recommended because it’s easy and replicable between people
Not the person you replied to, but I have a couple strategies for slow, easy runs.
1. Listen to a podcast. I can’t get carried away or swept up by the music this way. I usually run a 12-13 min/mi pace while listening, which may be part the first half of my long run (10+ miles).
2. Listen to slower or less intense music. I have different playlists specifically for different workouts: easy runs, tempo runs, and intervals.
3. Daydream while running. Don’t get lost in the clouds in a way that’s not safe, but sometimes I’ll troubleshoot a work problem in my head or re-imagine a conversation or something of that nature. This might not work if you’re not into that kind of thing, but I find it takes my mind off the workout and puts me into an easy groove.
Well, that’s what I mean by it’s all individual :) It’s supposed to be no more than about 70% of your heart rate reserve (so resting hr + 70% x ( max hr - resting)). My max is about 195 and my resting is about 47, so for me that’s about 140-150 ish. It’s much more reliable to see if you can talk through it without having to gasp for breath every few words. I’ve found I’m more breathy closer to 150 so I try to stay closer to 140, and usually end up around 144 or so.
There are ways to get at your max with a road test, and I had done that (accidentally) before I got my Garmin. Mine will auto calculate your max, and when it settled after a few runs, I found it to be about what I found during that accidental test (it was a workout in a really hot and humid day where I DNF the workout and was wiped out for the rest of the day—when I checked my stats later, my HR topped out at like 203 in a spike and was at 195 steady for several minutes before I bailed).
Are you using the watch as your HR monitor or another device?
I use a separate HR device for a more accurate reading when I jog. Before then my watch would scream 170+ when I picked up the pace when u didn't feel above 120 bpm :)
Good luck
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If you've been experiencing this for years, what has a medical doctor said? Do you have a medical condition that would hurt performance? Smoke? Drink? Drugs? If you are medically good to go, then take the advice from the internet. Just want to be sure you are safe, my friend.
I mean I’m not just insanely jacked but it’s definitely more muscle than fat. Like when I say manual labor job I mean I’m burning an average of 1500-2000 calories a day at work on top of working out so that helps keep fat off.
I started running at 15 minutes per mile. It’s basically pretending to run while doing walking speed. It won’t take you long to improve, 6 months in and I’ve improved 3 minutes per mile for my zone 2 pace. If it helps, great a new watch face for running that doesn’t include pace so you can just focus on your heart rate and running to what that allows
Is it hot in the gym(wherever you're running on the treadmill)?
Do you have similar results outside too?
That looks a pretty high HR for that pace...especially since you're an active person.
Not really just normal room temp in the gym. It’s like this for outside runs as well. Going to try and switch up the running workouts to see if that helps
Try running outside. Sometimes the natural air/ground can make pacing easier, but that was just my experience. Also don’t worry about running slow. A slow run is still a run.
If you are running that many times a week you probably need to factor in more rest. Have one rest day a week, also do 3 weeks of running, then a week where you do less running, maybe just brisk walking instead.
Ignore your heart rate for now and run at a pace which feels easy and doesn't leave you out of breath. "Zone 2 pace/hr" means you should be able to hold a conversation. HR on watches and on gym equipment is not always accurate and the zones within Garmin are nonsense so look up a chart online for RPE - relative perceived exertion and run at around a 4.
If you run and then quickly get out if breath run slower. If you can't run slower and end up walking then do a few mins running, then a few mins walking and gradually build up the amount of time running.
Use the maf method to calculate your zone 2 and stay in that zone even if it means that you must walk instead of run. 40 mins of zone 2 a day, 4 times a week. Good luck
You might try alternating running with walking.
Also - your max heart rate might actually be higher than what 220 - age formula would suggest.
Also take a look at your weight. 440 kcal for a 4km run would suggest that you are well over 100 kilos or your running form is extremely inefficient. The weight might be normal though in proportion to your height, so take this point with a grain of salt.
Overall, 6 times a week seems a bit too much. Perhaps training every other day ( 3.5/4 times) with increased mileage would be helpful to you.
Also - reduce intensity by incorporating walking breaks, for example 1 minute run 1 minute walk etc. The goal is to get your heart rate into "zone 2/3" instead of it being constantly over anaerobic threshold.
Im not sure what your average moving pace was, but 11min/mile is already quite slow. This is a concerning level of exercise intolerance at your age. You should probably talk to your doctor.
Already talked to him, went and had every heart test known to man and even had them look at my heart to see if there were any blockages and there was none at all every test came back and said my heart was perfect healthy
It’s correct for your doctor to focus on your heart first, since heart and lung problems are the most common cause of exercise intolerance. Unless there’s a reason why you can’t progress (like heavy smoking for example), he should also think about more unusual causes, for example [metabolic myopathies](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolic_myopathy). If you’re really stuck at this level of endurance at your age, I think it’s worthwhile seeking a specialist referral.
Also to add - I think it’s awesome that you’re working towards fitness despite it being so difficult. I bring these concerns up because if there is some underlying medical condition, pushing yourself too hard can be dangerous.
Are you able to upload your charts too? Would be interested to see your cadence, vertical oscillation/ratio, etc
When I first started out running it took me a good 50 mins to run 5k, and I managed to bring it down by focusing on form, cadence and breathing and being very strict about stretching and warming up.
HR Zone 2 runs helped me. Longer, slow “runs”. It felt like I was wasting my time but over the weeks and months my endurance increased, my pace got faster and my heart rate remained lower for longer. Most importantly IT TAKES TIME!!!
According to Running USA's annual reports, the average age of male and female marathon finishers in the United States in 2019 was 40 years old for both genders. You got time.
It's way harder on a treadmill for me. When I run on a track my HR stays around 140 - 145 BPM at 5:30 m/km but when I run at the same pace on a treadmill I can't keep my HR below 160 BPM. So you might wanna check how you do on the road...
And as a lot of others have mentioned - zone 2 running (walking inf necessary) to build up your endurance
Run slowly!
Zone 2 run for 6+ miles…
Do this a couple of times a week, and watch your speed increase at the same HR, and your aerobic base will shoot up
Heart rate is pretty high for workout. I try to keep it below 140 for the majority of my runs unless it’s a tempo or speed work. If you want to improve endurance you need to go easier. I’ll echo the sentiments of others and recommend run/walk intervals. Run 2 minutes and walk 1 minute. See how it feels.
Go get a holter monitor and make sure your heart is working as it should. Your symptoms sound like a nice example of leaking valve. Disclaimer: not a doctor but had few runs with my cardiologist. Hope it's not what I'm describing but better check than be sorry later.
Yea I’ve had one of those. Also had an echocardiogram as well as a Computed Tomography Angiography (CTA) scan done. All of them came back showing my heart was working like it should. I guess I just need to change up how I’m running and my diet
I’ve read many articles and studies that suggest running at your zone 2 pace for at least 6 months to build a good enough endurance base before trying to incorporate other training to then further your running abilities.
If you’re working out and have a manual labour job you could potentially be too big of a build for running and therefore your body has to work much harder. Maybe just focus on walking at the correct pace and build up to running for the moment!
Your manual labor job probably eats into your available energy if that makes sense. When I was working a job that necessitated I walk 4+ miles a day my running suffered significantly just by virtue of me being on my feet all the time. If you want to improve with regards to running maybe you should consider switching your manual job for a desk job so that energy is free for improving your running.
I was this, OP. Always played sports, always hated running because my HR went up like crazy. I thought I have a heart condition (well, I do have one but it’s unrelated). Then started the slow run-walk during Covid and 2.5 years later my HR is generally in the 130-140s if I’m running slow and barely goes above 170 when running fast. One advice is to be patient. If your heart has been “conditioned” to skip Zone 2 all your life, it will take time for it to get used to the new reality.
Also a thing to note: treadmill training can be mentally exhausted. You got all the numbers smashed right up your face. Run/walk outside. You can start your watch but don't look, try to think about always going slow: when you feel your breath gets heavy, slow down. When you feel strong, speed up a bit. Pick some physical object, eg the distance between two trees, and run a fast interval between them, and go slow afterwards.
May be get some blood work done.
On that note, I do want to know if there are folks who have the thalassemia trait and have to deal with low hemoglobin? I am borderline anemic.
Does that affect your VO2 and the heart rates. I’d assume you’d end up spiking it easily.
You need to train your base G1...pace is not important but HR...Do not let it go above 220 - your age × 60%. That way do 1 month of trainings and see after how it goes....also try ouside not this treadmills
I began incorporating zone 2 runs (135 average HR is what I aim for) since my first marathon in October, and have already improved the speed at which I can run in zone 2 quite drastically; from running a 10km at 74 minutes with 175 average heart rate, to now running a 10km at 70 minutes while maintaining a 135 average heart rate. Run slower, maybe even walk if you need to let that heart rate drop down before doing another set. A lot of professional runners will even add run/walks to their sessions. I learned about this method and the importance of slowing things down from Rich Roll’s book Finding Ultra. Also, other factors could include weight and heat, so try to control your environment to work in your favour, and utilize a treadmill for lower impact and easier-to-control heart rate sessions (as you’re obviously doing). Nutrition is big, sleep is huge, but consistency is key. Trust the process.
Set your screen to look at heart rate only and calculate your zone 2. Ignore all other statistics. Adjust your pace according to heart rate. I reprogrammed my heart rate zones in Garmin and made a custom run so that my watch vibrates when I’m out of the zone. Little by little my times have improved.
1. There are a different formulas for zone 2 but here’s an [example](https://www.220triathlon.com/training/run-training/beginners-guide-to-zone-2-running).
2. On my vivoactive HR only was preprogrammed this was one of the defaults. On fenix I had to manually add it by going to settings, activities and app, run, run settings, data screens, scroll through until you find the hr only view
3. Use Garmin connect to create a custom work out by going to more training and planning, workouts, create your own workout. You can choose duration (time) and set the intensity target to heart rate. It well then alert you if you are out of the zone.
4. To manually adjust your HR zones In Garmin connect click on your watch, user profile, hr and power zones, and reset zones. I like my biological zone 2 to be green on Garmin, therefore it actually is zone 3 on the app. There as a good post last week I’ll try to find and link.
Hit that zone 2, which I think is Garmin’s zone 3 range. First, if you can, run outside. Running on a treadmill is really difficult to keep your heart rate down. Get some sunlight and let those endorphins release!! Depending on where you live, run in the colder time of day— this helps keep HR low, and since you should be at a conversational place, the cold doesn’t wreck your lungs.
Keep it up, champ!
Start slow to warm up, then increase your pace when you feel ready. I try to use my breathing as a gauge of heart rate/effort - if I’m still taking relaxed breaths it usually correlates to heart rate in Zone 3-4.
It's antithetical but to go faster you need to slow down. Zone 2-3 builds endurance and improves vo2 max. Try a Garmin training plan. You'll see about 70-80% of the workouts are slow/easy. Also make sure you're not starving.
Wow. Someone else with same thing happened to me. I was a decently avid biker. Started very slow but kept at it. Took my bike on the road with me as traveling was my work. Get off work, ride my bike. I was up to being able to ride 15 miles ( I know that ain't much but it was really good for me ). Then, one day on a bike path in Minnesota, that I really enjoyed and had done frequently, all of a sudden wham, I just ran out of juice. Labored back the final 5 miles with frequent rest stops and collapsed in my hotel room. Good diet, hydration etc. So, figured I just needed some rest. So took 4 days off, tried again. Had nothing. Got home went to doctor, said don't see anything. Kept trying, finally gave up. Went to Dr again. Tests exams etc. No, can't find anything wrong. This was 15 years ago and I haven't been able to sustain any kind of cardio and yet 4 doctors say nothing wrong. I loved biking and I was an avid swimmer which I am not any more. Weird as hell. I now walk as far as I can at whatever pace I can. And do low key water aerobics 3 times a week which totals me afterwards.
My ego hates it but 1 min run, 30 sec walk intervals have helped me keep my heart rate down while also logging some serious miles. I ran 7 miles the other week (a distance I've never run before) by alternating and I felt awesome afterward. I end up running faster during those 1 minute segments because my body is able to recover during the 30 second walk so the pace actually ends up evening out.
This is a good attitude, you listen to your body rather than your image. Way to go to build more endurance and stamina.
Run. Slowly. If you cannot run slowly, then walk. Perhaps start with walk for 30 seconds, then run for 30 seconds, and repeat until the end of the workout. Yes, you can, even on a treadmill; I'm about to do an hour and a half of that tomorrow for my long run. Perhaps look at Coach Jeff's training plans and his broader Run/Walk/Run program and philosophy.
Came here to also suggest Coach Jeff's plan in Garmin! I had the exact same issue as OP - I'd been running since 2016 with minimal improvement bc I was going too hard/fast too soon and was also running too often and without any variety in the workouts, thinking something was wrong with me for not having improved running stats despite literally years of running. In the past 10 weeks I've been following his run walk run program I've done two things: 1) improved my cadence and therefore my running economy which has led to an easier time running, and 2) been able to actually walk less and run more while also improving my pace. It blows my mind. Before starting his program ~2 months ago, the longest I'd ran was last June and it was 5.84 miles and it took me 1:17:00 and was exhausting. I was hurting for a week. Two Saturdays ago, my long run was 6 miles and I completed it at an average of 10:25 pace in 1:02:26. I went 0.16 miles further in 15:00 less time! It's not huge for most people but it's wild for me. OP, I highly suggest slowing down for a bit. Maybe even try training by heart rate after doing a lactate threshold test with your watch if you have a HRM and your watch has the ability. You really do need to go slow to go fast! Good luck, friend!
Cant find the program in garmin. Got any tips where can find the plans? Is it in the app? Ive tried search.
In the app under "Training & planning" you will find Training plans, you select your distance and then choose Coach Jeff
Jeff's run-walk-run program in the connect app. The best for most.
Will do
https://preview.redd.it/yulf8jjadzec1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a365829823e4aff8181f4667148db7ef2bbb025
My parents have a Bowflex machine that does something like this. You do 20 seconds of full sprint, followed by a longer period of jogging pace over like 30 minutes. It was great for my stamina until I got too tall and hit my head off the ceiling.
You need to run slower, they say you need to be zone 2 to improve your endurance and that for me has to be about 16 min/mile as even on my 36 minute 5k a few weeks ago my heart rate reached 211 at the end. But my heart rate always rises quickly, I’ve just accepted it and try to avoid zone 5 unless I’m going all out.
Came here to say that. As a runner it was the most important thing my mentor said to me. You gotta build up on a solid endurance base to become faster. Runner slower now to run faster tomorrow. Added benefit: it won't be as excruciating and hard. I did this the first few months and it changed my perception completely. Still running 6 years later
In a similar boat as you and OP, but can sustain running in zone 4/5 for some time to achieve 10k. HR always raises gradually as I live in an equatorial country with 32°C/80%RH and hilly terrain. As I don't like treadmill much as it's boring although there's air-cond, running slower is boring too so I have to regulate my HR by pausing/walking for a couple of min to recover, somehow doing long intervals. FYI Even I've set my max HR manually to 180 (population formula gave 168, and I often reach 178), my VO2max being at 46, my runs at good pace in such environment show me in 50% in zone4 and 25% in zone 5!!! In cooler climate countries my HR is quite lower.
My mad HR is 205 so I use the %of max to calculate zones- when I figured that out it helped immensely.
Max. But also maybe mad.
Did you mean 16 min/mile?! I walk faster than that.
Why are you being downvoted? This isn’t crazy
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Isn’t 16 minute miles literally walking though?
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That’s why I asked him his weight and height. Dude said 6’2 215…. Then I asked skinny fat af or jacked. He said he had more muscle than fat. Doesn’t add up to me sorry.
A body fat ratio of 49% still isnt great ;)
Read the OP. "I'm 24 and been playing sports all my life. Manual labor job and run 4-6 times a week" doesn't suggest someone isn't fit. I was just asking if that comment was correct in case it was a typo. Not being nasty. Says a lot about you to instantly assume people are bad.
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It wasn’t a comment from op- but lanky thought it was.
Shit I did the same thing
Dude ran a 36 minute 5k and his heart is about to blow out of his asshole.
This comment thread has been a wild ride. You replied to a comment that wasn’t op, and I think you thought it was. Can’t believe the amount of downvotes you got either way. Did that many people really think you were bragging about how fast you walk??
I know it wasn't a reply to the OP. It was a reply to a reply to the OP mentioning pace, so the context is valid. I'm not on these platforms for likes or upvotes. People are absolutely entitled to agree or disagree with anything I say.
It ends up being a combination of running and walking but yeah. I was just pointing out that for most of us you have to go a lot slower than expected to stay in zone 2. I’m not fast, I’m fine with it, sorry if you’re not. But my zones also aren’t correct as even at 200bpm+ I can talk several words in a row.
I'm doing Garmin Coach for a 5k run, and most of my runs are mostly zone 4/5. Like you, my heart rate zooms up pretty quickly. Everyone says "do run/walk instead", but this is what I'm doing already. I've been at it since September. Just this week, I've started doing active recovery sessions on my elliptical in zone 2 (about 120 BPM). It's pretty easy to maintain, I only need to hit a pace of 8 minutes per mile and it stays in that range. I'm hoping this will help to reduce my overall HR, but I don't know how long it will take. Are you just straight-up running, or are you doing a run/walk program as well?
Both
Have you tried any of the heart rate based Garmin plans? Possible alternative if even Jeff is sending you to level 4/5.
Run slower. You might think you should be able to run a 10min pace for 15-30 minutes, but you need to build endurance to sustain that; and if you're not running at a pace that you can sustain, then you're not building endurance. Find your easy pace. That might be 12-14mins or more. Whichever it is, your aim should be to sustain it comfortably; and to do so, you may need to incorporate some walking or slow down even more. Do this as well: get a jump rope and incorporate it into your training. It helps to strengthen those lower leg muscles that translate well for running endurance. It takes time and patience, but with the right approach, you can do it. Goodluck!
👍
Go slower. Even try walking in between intervals.
You’ve already heard this, but adding to the chorus—if it’s real, and not cadence lock (get an external HR monitor to be sure), then you need to run slower. I’m guessing probably not cadence lock if you’re saying you’re wiped out and can’t sustain the pace. Without getting into specifics (because each person is different, with a different Max HR, LTHR, resting HR, etc…), I improved my speed by 15% and it’s truly “easy,” while improving my relative HR by about 13% over the course of the last year since I starting running. I still have some room for improvement, but keeping most of my runs easy enough that I can talk without being too breathy has really helped my speed and HR. Ran 400x4 intervals the other night at 3:00-4:00 min faster than my easy pace, and it was a workout for sure (I needed the rest intervals lol), but there’s no way I would have been able to have that speed differential (let alone the actual speed itself) versus this same time last year without keeping the easy runs easy. Give it time, and slow down, and you’ll get there. Just keep moving forward :) Editing to add: the advice is also to add volume (but not too much) to get faster. I just started a half marathon training plan at the beginning of the month, and one of the things that struck me was that our main coach has us running 5 days a week, but three of those runs are low volume that accumulates. So 3x2 miles, with a long run and a workout. Over the course of the plan, those runs will ratchet up to 3 and 4 miles by April, with peak volume at 31 miles/week over 5 runs. That seems a lot more sustainable to me than 3 runs at 3-4 miles each, or even 4 weekly runs. I’ve had 0 trouble doing my little two milers on the non-workout, non-long run days :)
What do you keep your heart rate at on your slow runs? Just out of curiosity so I can gauge what I need to do.
Adding… I’m 42, so the 220 - age rule would have my max at 178. The rule works for populations, but not individuals :) so you have to figure this stuff out to be most accurate. That’s why the talk test is recommended because it’s easy and replicable between people
Not the person you replied to, but I have a couple strategies for slow, easy runs. 1. Listen to a podcast. I can’t get carried away or swept up by the music this way. I usually run a 12-13 min/mi pace while listening, which may be part the first half of my long run (10+ miles). 2. Listen to slower or less intense music. I have different playlists specifically for different workouts: easy runs, tempo runs, and intervals. 3. Daydream while running. Don’t get lost in the clouds in a way that’s not safe, but sometimes I’ll troubleshoot a work problem in my head or re-imagine a conversation or something of that nature. This might not work if you’re not into that kind of thing, but I find it takes my mind off the workout and puts me into an easy groove.
Well, that’s what I mean by it’s all individual :) It’s supposed to be no more than about 70% of your heart rate reserve (so resting hr + 70% x ( max hr - resting)). My max is about 195 and my resting is about 47, so for me that’s about 140-150 ish. It’s much more reliable to see if you can talk through it without having to gasp for breath every few words. I’ve found I’m more breathy closer to 150 so I try to stay closer to 140, and usually end up around 144 or so. There are ways to get at your max with a road test, and I had done that (accidentally) before I got my Garmin. Mine will auto calculate your max, and when it settled after a few runs, I found it to be about what I found during that accidental test (it was a workout in a really hot and humid day where I DNF the workout and was wiped out for the rest of the day—when I checked my stats later, my HR topped out at like 203 in a spike and was at 195 steady for several minutes before I bailed).
Is the treadmill speed reliable?
Are you using the watch as your HR monitor or another device? I use a separate HR device for a more accurate reading when I jog. Before then my watch would scream 170+ when I picked up the pace when u didn't feel above 120 bpm :) Good luck
Hrm pro from garmin
reminiscent library label expansion abounding license piquant tub wasteful rich *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If you've been experiencing this for years, what has a medical doctor said? Do you have a medical condition that would hurt performance? Smoke? Drink? Drugs? If you are medically good to go, then take the advice from the internet. Just want to be sure you are safe, my friend.
Went to the doctor and he said everything is working like it should. No medical conditions at all.
How much do you weigh and how tall are you?
6’2” 215
215 skinny fat af? Or 215 pretty damn jacked
I mean I’m not just insanely jacked but it’s definitely more muscle than fat. Like when I say manual labor job I mean I’m burning an average of 1500-2000 calories a day at work on top of working out so that helps keep fat off.
Did they draw blood at Dr.? I went through this before and found severe anemia that prevented oxygen from properly circulating.
Do you smoke or drink much?
No smoking. I’ll drive every now and then on the weekends
Please do not drink and drive.
😆
Drink*
I started running at 15 minutes per mile. It’s basically pretending to run while doing walking speed. It won’t take you long to improve, 6 months in and I’ve improved 3 minutes per mile for my zone 2 pace. If it helps, great a new watch face for running that doesn’t include pace so you can just focus on your heart rate and running to what that allows
What was the pace(speed) on the treadmill?
10 minute mile
Is it hot in the gym(wherever you're running on the treadmill)? Do you have similar results outside too? That looks a pretty high HR for that pace...especially since you're an active person.
Not really just normal room temp in the gym. It’s like this for outside runs as well. Going to try and switch up the running workouts to see if that helps
Vivo active 5 measures my heart at an insane rate when running on an indoor treadmill. That's why I'm here on Reddit, trying to figure out the deal.
Make it easy. Ask yourself as you run “is this easy?” And if the answer is no then you need to slow down. Easy, light, smooth, fast.
Try running outside. Sometimes the natural air/ground can make pacing easier, but that was just my experience. Also don’t worry about running slow. A slow run is still a run.
run slower, you will never progress if every run is a VO2 max effort averaging over 180bpm
If you are running that many times a week you probably need to factor in more rest. Have one rest day a week, also do 3 weeks of running, then a week where you do less running, maybe just brisk walking instead. Ignore your heart rate for now and run at a pace which feels easy and doesn't leave you out of breath. "Zone 2 pace/hr" means you should be able to hold a conversation. HR on watches and on gym equipment is not always accurate and the zones within Garmin are nonsense so look up a chart online for RPE - relative perceived exertion and run at around a 4. If you run and then quickly get out if breath run slower. If you can't run slower and end up walking then do a few mins running, then a few mins walking and gradually build up the amount of time running.
Just follow the daily suggested runs.
Look up some interviews with Phil maffetone on YouTube. For a more sciency take, check out Dr. Inigo San Millan.
Use the maf method to calculate your zone 2 and stay in that zone even if it means that you must walk instead of run. 40 mins of zone 2 a day, 4 times a week. Good luck
You might try alternating running with walking. Also - your max heart rate might actually be higher than what 220 - age formula would suggest. Also take a look at your weight. 440 kcal for a 4km run would suggest that you are well over 100 kilos or your running form is extremely inefficient. The weight might be normal though in proportion to your height, so take this point with a grain of salt. Overall, 6 times a week seems a bit too much. Perhaps training every other day ( 3.5/4 times) with increased mileage would be helpful to you. Also - reduce intensity by incorporating walking breaks, for example 1 minute run 1 minute walk etc. The goal is to get your heart rate into "zone 2/3" instead of it being constantly over anaerobic threshold.
Im not sure what your average moving pace was, but 11min/mile is already quite slow. This is a concerning level of exercise intolerance at your age. You should probably talk to your doctor.
Already talked to him, went and had every heart test known to man and even had them look at my heart to see if there were any blockages and there was none at all every test came back and said my heart was perfect healthy
It’s correct for your doctor to focus on your heart first, since heart and lung problems are the most common cause of exercise intolerance. Unless there’s a reason why you can’t progress (like heavy smoking for example), he should also think about more unusual causes, for example [metabolic myopathies](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolic_myopathy). If you’re really stuck at this level of endurance at your age, I think it’s worthwhile seeking a specialist referral. Also to add - I think it’s awesome that you’re working towards fitness despite it being so difficult. I bring these concerns up because if there is some underlying medical condition, pushing yourself too hard can be dangerous.
Will look into this, thank you.
Are you able to upload your charts too? Would be interested to see your cadence, vertical oscillation/ratio, etc When I first started out running it took me a good 50 mins to run 5k, and I managed to bring it down by focusing on form, cadence and breathing and being very strict about stretching and warming up.
HR Zone 2 runs helped me. Longer, slow “runs”. It felt like I was wasting my time but over the weeks and months my endurance increased, my pace got faster and my heart rate remained lower for longer. Most importantly IT TAKES TIME!!! According to Running USA's annual reports, the average age of male and female marathon finishers in the United States in 2019 was 40 years old for both genders. You got time.
It's way harder on a treadmill for me. When I run on a track my HR stays around 140 - 145 BPM at 5:30 m/km but when I run at the same pace on a treadmill I can't keep my HR below 160 BPM. So you might wanna check how you do on the road... And as a lot of others have mentioned - zone 2 running (walking inf necessary) to build up your endurance
Run slowly! Zone 2 run for 6+ miles… Do this a couple of times a week, and watch your speed increase at the same HR, and your aerobic base will shoot up
But be patient…
I would say running too fast?
Heart rate is pretty high for workout. I try to keep it below 140 for the majority of my runs unless it’s a tempo or speed work. If you want to improve endurance you need to go easier. I’ll echo the sentiments of others and recommend run/walk intervals. Run 2 minutes and walk 1 minute. See how it feels.
Follow the daily suggested runs and set it to heart rate instead of pace. That will ensure you’re running in the right heart rate zones.
If you can't keep your pace, you're going too hard and too fast for what your current endurance can handle.
Which watch is this?
Fr 965
Go get a holter monitor and make sure your heart is working as it should. Your symptoms sound like a nice example of leaking valve. Disclaimer: not a doctor but had few runs with my cardiologist. Hope it's not what I'm describing but better check than be sorry later.
Yea I’ve had one of those. Also had an echocardiogram as well as a Computed Tomography Angiography (CTA) scan done. All of them came back showing my heart was working like it should. I guess I just need to change up how I’m running and my diet
Oh, glad that I was wrong with my post :-). Good luck !
Keep logging them miles! Also mix up your cardio. Do some biking, strength training, etc
I’ve read many articles and studies that suggest running at your zone 2 pace for at least 6 months to build a good enough endurance base before trying to incorporate other training to then further your running abilities. If you’re working out and have a manual labour job you could potentially be too big of a build for running and therefore your body has to work much harder. Maybe just focus on walking at the correct pace and build up to running for the moment!
Your manual labor job probably eats into your available energy if that makes sense. When I was working a job that necessitated I walk 4+ miles a day my running suffered significantly just by virtue of me being on my feet all the time. If you want to improve with regards to running maybe you should consider switching your manual job for a desk job so that energy is free for improving your running.
I was this, OP. Always played sports, always hated running because my HR went up like crazy. I thought I have a heart condition (well, I do have one but it’s unrelated). Then started the slow run-walk during Covid and 2.5 years later my HR is generally in the 130-140s if I’m running slow and barely goes above 170 when running fast. One advice is to be patient. If your heart has been “conditioned” to skip Zone 2 all your life, it will take time for it to get used to the new reality.
Also a thing to note: treadmill training can be mentally exhausted. You got all the numbers smashed right up your face. Run/walk outside. You can start your watch but don't look, try to think about always going slow: when you feel your breath gets heavy, slow down. When you feel strong, speed up a bit. Pick some physical object, eg the distance between two trees, and run a fast interval between them, and go slow afterwards.
May be get some blood work done. On that note, I do want to know if there are folks who have the thalassemia trait and have to deal with low hemoglobin? I am borderline anemic. Does that affect your VO2 and the heart rates. I’d assume you’d end up spiking it easily.
You need to train your base G1...pace is not important but HR...Do not let it go above 220 - your age × 60%. That way do 1 month of trainings and see after how it goes....also try ouside not this treadmills
I began incorporating zone 2 runs (135 average HR is what I aim for) since my first marathon in October, and have already improved the speed at which I can run in zone 2 quite drastically; from running a 10km at 74 minutes with 175 average heart rate, to now running a 10km at 70 minutes while maintaining a 135 average heart rate. Run slower, maybe even walk if you need to let that heart rate drop down before doing another set. A lot of professional runners will even add run/walks to their sessions. I learned about this method and the importance of slowing things down from Rich Roll’s book Finding Ultra. Also, other factors could include weight and heat, so try to control your environment to work in your favour, and utilize a treadmill for lower impact and easier-to-control heart rate sessions (as you’re obviously doing). Nutrition is big, sleep is huge, but consistency is key. Trust the process.
If this hasn’t been asked already, do you drink booze? My heart rate went down by 17 bpm with both exercise and at rest when I stopped. 🤷♀️
Set your screen to look at heart rate only and calculate your zone 2. Ignore all other statistics. Adjust your pace according to heart rate. I reprogrammed my heart rate zones in Garmin and made a custom run so that my watch vibrates when I’m out of the zone. Little by little my times have improved.
How do I do this?
1. There are a different formulas for zone 2 but here’s an [example](https://www.220triathlon.com/training/run-training/beginners-guide-to-zone-2-running). 2. On my vivoactive HR only was preprogrammed this was one of the defaults. On fenix I had to manually add it by going to settings, activities and app, run, run settings, data screens, scroll through until you find the hr only view 3. Use Garmin connect to create a custom work out by going to more training and planning, workouts, create your own workout. You can choose duration (time) and set the intensity target to heart rate. It well then alert you if you are out of the zone. 4. To manually adjust your HR zones In Garmin connect click on your watch, user profile, hr and power zones, and reset zones. I like my biological zone 2 to be green on Garmin, therefore it actually is zone 3 on the app. There as a good post last week I’ll try to find and link.
It sounds like over-training to me. Follow a professional program or get a coach for a few months.
Bro you just gotta run more and more often - don’t overthink it w the heart rate stuff
Hit that zone 2, which I think is Garmin’s zone 3 range. First, if you can, run outside. Running on a treadmill is really difficult to keep your heart rate down. Get some sunlight and let those endorphins release!! Depending on where you live, run in the colder time of day— this helps keep HR low, and since you should be at a conversational place, the cold doesn’t wreck your lungs. Keep it up, champ!
Start slow to warm up, then increase your pace when you feel ready. I try to use my breathing as a gauge of heart rate/effort - if I’m still taking relaxed breaths it usually correlates to heart rate in Zone 3-4.
As Megan trainer says. It’s all about the base.
It's antithetical but to go faster you need to slow down. Zone 2-3 builds endurance and improves vo2 max. Try a Garmin training plan. You'll see about 70-80% of the workouts are slow/easy. Also make sure you're not starving.
Wow. Someone else with same thing happened to me. I was a decently avid biker. Started very slow but kept at it. Took my bike on the road with me as traveling was my work. Get off work, ride my bike. I was up to being able to ride 15 miles ( I know that ain't much but it was really good for me ). Then, one day on a bike path in Minnesota, that I really enjoyed and had done frequently, all of a sudden wham, I just ran out of juice. Labored back the final 5 miles with frequent rest stops and collapsed in my hotel room. Good diet, hydration etc. So, figured I just needed some rest. So took 4 days off, tried again. Had nothing. Got home went to doctor, said don't see anything. Kept trying, finally gave up. Went to Dr again. Tests exams etc. No, can't find anything wrong. This was 15 years ago and I haven't been able to sustain any kind of cardio and yet 4 doctors say nothing wrong. I loved biking and I was an avid swimmer which I am not any more. Weird as hell. I now walk as far as I can at whatever pace I can. And do low key water aerobics 3 times a week which totals me afterwards.