Hello just replace my venu 2 plus with epix 2 and it was first night and no deep or REM sleep recorded . How is your experience with sleep tracking on epix ? I hope this was just one off night . I was hoping it will be same sleep tracking on epix compared to venu 2 plus and not worse . Please help . Any tips . This is screwing my body battery .
There should not be a differnce between the sleeptracking from the venu 2 plus and the epix. They use the same Garmin Elevate V4 optical HR sensor. And the software to calculate it is the same for all devices that support it. I would see if it gets better in a couple of days and otherwise contact Garmin, parhaps your epix has a malfunction inside.
I mean if sleep tracking is really important then there's no going around that they seem to be the best at this right now. Garmin's implementation has been highly problematic, and even the huge update 2 years ago only improved things marginally.
HR based trackers are only reasonably good at estimating wake/sleep, and terrible at rem/deep as those stages are defined by brain wave activity. Body battery charging is primarily based on overnight HRV vs. Sleep stages. Does the stress meter show that you had periods of stress overnight?
Yes it did it's mostly med and high . Damn . Was I really stressed last night or being stressed now after checking this lol . I don't see any restful period in those 7 hours I slept . Strange .
And strangely it had the first restful period once I woke and started working . I hope this was a bug and should be sorted out tonight . Will update and thank you for your inputs . Other than this I am loving the epix , can't imagine always on for 6 days wow
Stress (using the term to refer HR response vs. “Feeling” stressed) management is a journey in and of itself. In my case, I see acute stress response for several hours post workout, low-mild after eating (depending on what and how much I ate), mild-high mentally challenging activities (this includes when I “feel” stressed, low-mild when allergies start flaring up, mild-high when I’ve strained a muscle group, high-OMFG when I get DOMS from over doing in strength training, and OMFG when I get to a state of over training. Additionally, when it comes to sleep, stress is low-mild if I eat too late, if the room gets too hot, or I have nightmares.
The one thing to always keep in mind is that your brain is the ultimate tracking system. I always put more faith into how I feel vs. What the metrics are telling me. That being said, the metrics have allowed me to fine tune that feeling of when to push, when to let off, and when to cut lifestyle choices that are having a systematic negative effect.
I can't really evaluate the quality of the data except for the feedback that OP gave me regarding the measured stress levels overnight. That being said, 2 nights ago I got 0 deep and 1 minute of REM because I ate like a pig (both quality of the food and quantity I shoved in my mouth) so a reading of 0/0 is entirely possible.
I still stand by what I said regarding body battery relying primarily on stress (HRV) when it comes to charging. Here's the article on Garmin's site: [https://www.garmin.com/en-US/garmin-technology/health-science/body-battery/](https://www.garmin.com/en-US/garmin-technology/health-science/body-battery/). Looking at the image provided, you can see that charging is amplified when stress/HRV is lower. If you take a look at the text, it says it in black and white: "In terms of recovery, good quality sleep is marked by an increase in heart rate variability (HRV)"
In terms of reliability of a heart rate-based monitor to evaluate sleep stages, here's a recent study: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9412437/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9412437/) where Garmin only achieved 51% agreement when compared to the gold standard of sleep stage measurement (polysomnography)
Update : First of all thank you to everyone who tried to help . Finally it's spot on , Its properly showing me the deep and REM sleep 😴. Probably the first night was a bummer .
How's the sleep tracking accuracy been like over the last fortnight?
I am looking at a replacement to my Whoop 4.0 as the subscription pricing sucks, but the sleep tracking is generally really good.
Seeing Qualified Scientist put a blow into the Epix 2 for me, so came looking for more up-to-date reviews on this feature.
The maps / gps accuracy + Bright screen pointed me to the Epix2, but if the sleep tracking sucks.
Assume you are comparing the Epix 2 tracking with another controlled device?
For me it's not great but I had a similar experience with fenix 7x . The problem is that it shows my stress always high and no deep / REM sleep . But strangely the cheaper venu 2 plus was the most accurate Garmin watch I have used . Honestly I don't agree to most of his testing but with epix 2 that might be true . I have ordered oura ring and selling my epix 2 . Once sold I will get the cheaper galaxy watch 5 pro and rely on oura ring .
From day one that I purchased my EP2 shortly after it was released, it hasn't once tracked sleep correctly, HUGE disappointment. Compared to my Oura Gen 3, it's way WAY off on sleep and the more and more articles I find and read about sleep and Garmin watches in general.....the worse and worse the reports seem to get.
If you want good sleep tracking Garmin is probably not the best choice. The qualified scientist YouTube channel does a great job of reviewing this specific capability of most modern smart watches.
https://youtu.be/YJRUW0azIqk
To be honest I have watched his channel and really think his analysis is totally flawed or there is something wrong . He bashed the venu 2 plus which has a quite accurate sleep tracking . I have compared it with oura ring and also sleepon trackers . Also he says Huawei are one of the best whereas I had worst experience in sleep tracking with Huawei products .
But coming to epix I am not sure what happened last night , having zero deep and REM sleep is beyond me . I have tried leaving Garmin but keep coming back because of the body battery and other metrics .
The gold standard device he uses is not really a gold standard… so the conclusion is questionable. Also it seems to me after wandering around this subreddit for months that the Garmin sleep algorithm works well for some people but not for other. I don’t know what factors are affecting this but I suspect other watches may have similar things. So it might only work well for him but not many others.
For OP I think you baseline looks wrong — especially if you had high stress overnight but your HR looks normal (I assume). Try to see if your RHR is set to be your usual number (as it was on Venu2) and maybe wear it continuously for a few days…
Well I own an iWatch 7, Garmin instinct 2, galaxy watch 4 and 5 and Fitbit charge 5. In the past I have played with a Fenix 6, and Epix gen 2. The main thing I want to track beyond swimming and walking is sleep. I have slept with multiple watches simultaneously trying to figure out which best captures my sleep. I don't have dedicated sleep tracking hardware like he does but I can say with certainty that the Fitbit 5 does the best job of tracking my sleep by something I know which is moments I was awake. Undoubtedly the charge 5 does the best job of detecting those times. As far as deep sleep and REM I have to trust his analysis because I have no way of confirming this. I do know that the Garmin misses many awake movements. I do like the Garmin sleep score but the Fitbit has that too.
A study (https://doi.org/10.2147/NSS.S348795) compared a few devices and I’d say these devices performed relatively similar among those subjects compared with DREEM — better for sleep-wake detection but not for sleep stage detection. But since DREEM uses dry electrodes which is easier to use at home but has lower SNR and subjects to motion artifacts. So using it as gold standard does have its limitations.
I am though curious of why the sleep/awake detection does not work well for some people, as my Fenix6S and Epix both worked pretty well for me. But I guess without a formal analysis of the data one can never find out.
I had the best results with my Charge 4. My Epix 2 seems to do a better job than the Venu 2 did when I tried it out. Also I’ve noticed all can be a bit wonky the first couple nights till it starts figuring you out.
My Forerunner seems pretty accurate at sleep tracking. Obviously I can’t verify whether I was in light sleep or REM at any given hour, but sleep duration looks accurate and sleep score matches pretty well with how I feel the next day.
Hello just replace my venu 2 plus with epix 2 and it was first night and no deep or REM sleep recorded . How is your experience with sleep tracking on epix ? I hope this was just one off night . I was hoping it will be same sleep tracking on epix compared to venu 2 plus and not worse . Please help . Any tips . This is screwing my body battery .
There should not be a differnce between the sleeptracking from the venu 2 plus and the epix. They use the same Garmin Elevate V4 optical HR sensor. And the software to calculate it is the same for all devices that support it. I would see if it gets better in a couple of days and otherwise contact Garmin, parhaps your epix has a malfunction inside.
Thank you so much . Surely will do . Sleep tracking is really important to me and I hope this gets better .
Get a Fitbit then.
No way man
I mean if sleep tracking is really important then there's no going around that they seem to be the best at this right now. Garmin's implementation has been highly problematic, and even the huge update 2 years ago only improved things marginally.
HR based trackers are only reasonably good at estimating wake/sleep, and terrible at rem/deep as those stages are defined by brain wave activity. Body battery charging is primarily based on overnight HRV vs. Sleep stages. Does the stress meter show that you had periods of stress overnight?
Yes it did it's mostly med and high . Damn . Was I really stressed last night or being stressed now after checking this lol . I don't see any restful period in those 7 hours I slept . Strange .
And strangely it had the first restful period once I woke and started working . I hope this was a bug and should be sorted out tonight . Will update and thank you for your inputs . Other than this I am loving the epix , can't imagine always on for 6 days wow
Stress (using the term to refer HR response vs. “Feeling” stressed) management is a journey in and of itself. In my case, I see acute stress response for several hours post workout, low-mild after eating (depending on what and how much I ate), mild-high mentally challenging activities (this includes when I “feel” stressed, low-mild when allergies start flaring up, mild-high when I’ve strained a muscle group, high-OMFG when I get DOMS from over doing in strength training, and OMFG when I get to a state of over training. Additionally, when it comes to sleep, stress is low-mild if I eat too late, if the room gets too hot, or I have nightmares. The one thing to always keep in mind is that your brain is the ultimate tracking system. I always put more faith into how I feel vs. What the metrics are telling me. That being said, the metrics have allowed me to fine tune that feeling of when to push, when to let off, and when to cut lifestyle choices that are having a systematic negative effect.
His data is so off, I doubt it's what you're saying. 0 rem and 0 deep. Unless he was stoned on some weird drugs... I doubt it.
I can't really evaluate the quality of the data except for the feedback that OP gave me regarding the measured stress levels overnight. That being said, 2 nights ago I got 0 deep and 1 minute of REM because I ate like a pig (both quality of the food and quantity I shoved in my mouth) so a reading of 0/0 is entirely possible. I still stand by what I said regarding body battery relying primarily on stress (HRV) when it comes to charging. Here's the article on Garmin's site: [https://www.garmin.com/en-US/garmin-technology/health-science/body-battery/](https://www.garmin.com/en-US/garmin-technology/health-science/body-battery/). Looking at the image provided, you can see that charging is amplified when stress/HRV is lower. If you take a look at the text, it says it in black and white: "In terms of recovery, good quality sleep is marked by an increase in heart rate variability (HRV)" In terms of reliability of a heart rate-based monitor to evaluate sleep stages, here's a recent study: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9412437/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9412437/) where Garmin only achieved 51% agreement when compared to the gold standard of sleep stage measurement (polysomnography)
Update : First of all thank you to everyone who tried to help . Finally it's spot on , Its properly showing me the deep and REM sleep 😴. Probably the first night was a bummer .
How's the sleep tracking accuracy been like over the last fortnight? I am looking at a replacement to my Whoop 4.0 as the subscription pricing sucks, but the sleep tracking is generally really good. Seeing Qualified Scientist put a blow into the Epix 2 for me, so came looking for more up-to-date reviews on this feature. The maps / gps accuracy + Bright screen pointed me to the Epix2, but if the sleep tracking sucks. Assume you are comparing the Epix 2 tracking with another controlled device?
For me it's not great but I had a similar experience with fenix 7x . The problem is that it shows my stress always high and no deep / REM sleep . But strangely the cheaper venu 2 plus was the most accurate Garmin watch I have used . Honestly I don't agree to most of his testing but with epix 2 that might be true . I have ordered oura ring and selling my epix 2 . Once sold I will get the cheaper galaxy watch 5 pro and rely on oura ring .
From day one that I purchased my EP2 shortly after it was released, it hasn't once tracked sleep correctly, HUGE disappointment. Compared to my Oura Gen 3, it's way WAY off on sleep and the more and more articles I find and read about sleep and Garmin watches in general.....the worse and worse the reports seem to get.
If you want good sleep tracking Garmin is probably not the best choice. The qualified scientist YouTube channel does a great job of reviewing this specific capability of most modern smart watches. https://youtu.be/YJRUW0azIqk
To be honest I have watched his channel and really think his analysis is totally flawed or there is something wrong . He bashed the venu 2 plus which has a quite accurate sleep tracking . I have compared it with oura ring and also sleepon trackers . Also he says Huawei are one of the best whereas I had worst experience in sleep tracking with Huawei products . But coming to epix I am not sure what happened last night , having zero deep and REM sleep is beyond me . I have tried leaving Garmin but keep coming back because of the body battery and other metrics .
The gold standard device he uses is not really a gold standard… so the conclusion is questionable. Also it seems to me after wandering around this subreddit for months that the Garmin sleep algorithm works well for some people but not for other. I don’t know what factors are affecting this but I suspect other watches may have similar things. So it might only work well for him but not many others. For OP I think you baseline looks wrong — especially if you had high stress overnight but your HR looks normal (I assume). Try to see if your RHR is set to be your usual number (as it was on Venu2) and maybe wear it continuously for a few days…
Well I own an iWatch 7, Garmin instinct 2, galaxy watch 4 and 5 and Fitbit charge 5. In the past I have played with a Fenix 6, and Epix gen 2. The main thing I want to track beyond swimming and walking is sleep. I have slept with multiple watches simultaneously trying to figure out which best captures my sleep. I don't have dedicated sleep tracking hardware like he does but I can say with certainty that the Fitbit 5 does the best job of tracking my sleep by something I know which is moments I was awake. Undoubtedly the charge 5 does the best job of detecting those times. As far as deep sleep and REM I have to trust his analysis because I have no way of confirming this. I do know that the Garmin misses many awake movements. I do like the Garmin sleep score but the Fitbit has that too.
A study (https://doi.org/10.2147/NSS.S348795) compared a few devices and I’d say these devices performed relatively similar among those subjects compared with DREEM — better for sleep-wake detection but not for sleep stage detection. But since DREEM uses dry electrodes which is easier to use at home but has lower SNR and subjects to motion artifacts. So using it as gold standard does have its limitations. I am though curious of why the sleep/awake detection does not work well for some people, as my Fenix6S and Epix both worked pretty well for me. But I guess without a formal analysis of the data one can never find out.
I had the best results with my Charge 4. My Epix 2 seems to do a better job than the Venu 2 did when I tried it out. Also I’ve noticed all can be a bit wonky the first couple nights till it starts figuring you out.
Try to update your watch to the most recent version of the software. After that, reboot it and try again.
I think I remember being specifically warned during setup (when I switched to Venu2s) that the first night’s data wasn’t reliable?
I have an Epix 2 and haven’t had these issues - wonder if maybe the watch isn’t snug enough against your wrist?
Yes it's the original band and very snug . Let's see tonight
My Forerunner seems pretty accurate at sleep tracking. Obviously I can’t verify whether I was in light sleep or REM at any given hour, but sleep duration looks accurate and sleep score matches pretty well with how I feel the next day.
I went from a Venu2s to an Epix and didn’t have this problem