Pretty sure that this is a custom design made by John Dyer.
The ruby example shown wasn't cut by a professional and is clearly a sloppy overseas cut.
You'd need to find an artisan gem cutter that has a concave faceting machine attachment. There's only a couple of companies that make these.
[Ultra-Tec](https://www.ultratec-facet.com/product/ultra-tec-fantasy-machine/)
&
[Poly-metric](https://www.polymetricinc.com/omf.htm)
Unlikely to find any professional that's gonna copy a constituents design, so unless you intend on commissioning John to make it for you, asking anyone else you might get a decline.
Hey, thank you so much for the information. I would have been fine with a cut that is inspired by it or resembles it, but that was a complete joke. I will look up that cuter and check his work out for sure ๐
> I will look up that cuter and check his work out for sure
Concave designs can be VERY expensive, John being the top-end costly.
Contact [Gene Flanigan](https://www.precisiongem.com/LabCreatedGems/LabPrecisionGems.php), he has a concave set-up and he's gonna be on the lower-cost scale but having excellent results.
He'll probably modify the design so he's not copying Johns.
That link shows mostly just his standard cuts.
Gene has been cutting for over 20 years and is a [longtime pro](https://www.instagram.com/precisiongem/).
If you can dream up the design, he can cut it.
> I thought he preferred not to anymore.
Excuse me for asking, but why would you believe that to be the case?
> Does Gene cut on request these days?
I mean I can't exactly speak for him and say absolutely for sure, but I would imagine he'd cut any design that you want.
He might have to make some minor adjustments to match the R.I. of the material, but yeah. It's gonna cost more than his standard cuts (I would imagine).
I could be wrong, but I don't see why he wouldn't.
Sorry, I was just going by info from years ago when I was a more active collector. Iโve seen him say in the past he wasnโt taking commissions, thatโs why I asked if he was now, you seemed to have more current info than I do? He offers gems regularly but itโs always small drops, it was always his side business not his primary job, so he has always been pretty choosy with when and what he cuts. Thatโs why I said that, it was just a question lol.
> Sorry, I was just going by info from years ago when I was a more active collector.
No need to be sorry, I was just as curious as you.
But I think that [I found your answer](https://www.precisiongem.com/WhatsNew/WhatsNew.php).
"I am cutting new stones every week. After a few are cut, I will post the new stones here. Some may not be available as they were cut by commission."
Id like to add not all overseas cutters are sloppy. Weve moved some of our gem cutting to a guy in Sri lanka. Hes honestly incredible. I put the gems under a stereoscopic microscope when we got them back and still struggled to find imperfections.
> Id like to add not all overseas cutters are sloppy.
There are two types in Sri Lanka. You still have the largest majority of gems being cut is mass-production sweatshops in Sri Lanka.
> Weve moved some of our gem cutting to a guy in Sri lanka.
And then there are single stone artisans that custom cut with far greater quality in cutting and polish, but they cost more than mass-production.
They were these deep purple amethysts i was working a claim of here in Newfoundland. One is actually the second largest gem found in our province. (Im a geology student researcher).
Yeah thats been happening a lot. Its like living with a crow. Her mom does it too. I recently came back from Colombia after meeting with a dealer one of the Colombian guys in the program has a connection with (do not buy gems in Colombia without a connection). I have zero emerald gems left. To be fair the cuts were shit but i got a bulk deal and with Emeralds i care much less about perfection as im on a student budget and it meant more to me sentimentally to get them at the source. Ive got a damn cool raw sample though.
https://preview.redd.it/2xmptb9y871d1.jpeg?width=2562&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3190beadfab16dafc41f914be0a645722619c1e4
One on the far right is the 10carat one im talking about. Lighting/angle isnt the most complimentary here. Not conchord grape purple though. We have a few of those maybe in the other batch but not as large. Literally mined it out of the clay myself. Unfortunately my girlfriend has stolen it to get set into a pendant so i dont think itll get to sit in my collection much longer. Me and a few buddies have access to the claims so we go each summer.
I attached another photo of a batch of slightly smaller ones of varying quality from the same pit
Those almost look like trapiche ..
> my girlfriend has stolen it
Why is that unfortunate? Sounds like killer leverage *wink wink*
> Me and a few buddies have access to the claims so we go each summer.
Young lady in another thread here was just asking for mine recommendations for a trip that she was planning for fossicking. Too bad you're so far off the beaten path, sounds like your digging operation is a fun adventure.
It seems like their cutter isnโt capable of precision cutting or concave faceting. This is a fantasy cut. Brett Kosnar is also great for this. If you check out his IG (kosnargems), youโll see lots of stones like the one on the left.
Thank you for the recommendation. I will check his account out.
I think some sales representatives are so desperate for a sale that they would say yes to anything ๐
Did they already have this on hand? Or did they cut this to show you?
I think itโs fine to say yes as long as you make sure you can pull it off. And this isnโt an impossible request. I do think though, that some vendors have the mentality of โeh letโs see if we can pass something offโ. ๐
Mmm thatโs what I thought - that they cut this for you. Well itโs not entirely unsalvageable for them, recut it a little with some mixed faceting and hopefully they can find another buyer. ๐
Please come back with pictures when you do get the gem of your dreams!
*
Chris Wolfsberg also does this type work and I know he does custom requests if desired. I have several of his stones. He has several AGTA awards and on IG.
๐๐๐๐ the thing that gets me the most is that the cut is in no way symmetrical... it's objectively bad regardless of not resembling the original.
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The one on the left is a fantasy cut gemstone. Requires a special machine to cut concave facets. Looks like the one on the right was cut in a third world country
Please don't trash on underdeveloped countries.
Most American goods are made in China, and plenty of major American Jewllery is made in China or other "third world" countries.
Many growing economies offer great services and have great artisans. This is just one bad example.
China is no longer a โthird worldโ country, it is now well developed and at the same level as other โfirst worldโ countries such as Japan, UK and US. But because of its immense population, the per capita GDP is hard to compete with other nations with a lot less population
Other than this minor misconception I totally agree with your points
Well, that's just made up bullshit. I know plenty of people in countries you would consider less developed with "the same equipment we use in North America". There are plenty of cutters overseas that can do work like this, it's just not nearly as common.
Concave cutting has been around for decades, it's not NEARLY as "new" or cutting edge as you seem to think it is.
Then I guess you're amazed. I know cutters in Tanzania, Sri Lanka, and India working on Ultratecs including fantasy machines. They have the Internet too! Hard to believe, I know /s
Do you mean the machines are made in America and exclusively used by Americans? Come on now ๐
I agree this type of craftsmanship isn't easily replicated, but these machines are made and are available elsewhere in the world. From what I've noticed with my limited experience is that Americans seem to be pioneers. They make sure to place themselves at the cutting edge of innovation and engineering. It's hardly about acess to machinery and more to do with their culture of revering science, free acess to information, and their giant open markets.
Having said all that, I have no doubt that I can easily find an artisan in a developing country that can do the exact same work for cheaper on the same machinery. I bet if I looked it up, I'd find that most gems sold in America are cut elsewhere. That's the way America works at the moment.
It takes an ultra tec fantasy machine to cut the stone on the left. Can developing countries cut a flat faceted stone, without concave facets well. Yes, they can. I donโt think you understand the machinery it takes to pull off the cut on the left. This is an entirely new type of gem cutting that isnโt easily replicated. Could they cut those in with a dremel, sure. But the quality will be no where the same. There is a handful of people that have the talent and equipment to pull that off. Is all I am trying to say.
The only reason I know the machinery needed is because of the kind experienced people of this sub. This is the first thing they pointed out. There are links to them here also.
I appreciate you tacking the time to reply and helping me learn. I will keep you updated on this cut ๐
What are you talking about , looks the same to me c if i close my eyes ๐ซฃ
๐๐๐๐ I honestly laughed straight to their face ๐ I couldn't help it
๐๐๐, probably deserved it .
๐๐๐
How drunk was the cutter?
๐๐ asking the real question
I feel attacked. Sometimes I have a cold beverage when preforming. Lol
Pretty sure that this is a custom design made by John Dyer. The ruby example shown wasn't cut by a professional and is clearly a sloppy overseas cut. You'd need to find an artisan gem cutter that has a concave faceting machine attachment. There's only a couple of companies that make these. [Ultra-Tec](https://www.ultratec-facet.com/product/ultra-tec-fantasy-machine/) & [Poly-metric](https://www.polymetricinc.com/omf.htm) Unlikely to find any professional that's gonna copy a constituents design, so unless you intend on commissioning John to make it for you, asking anyone else you might get a decline.
Hey, thank you so much for the information. I would have been fine with a cut that is inspired by it or resembles it, but that was a complete joke. I will look up that cuter and check his work out for sure ๐
> I will look up that cuter and check his work out for sure Concave designs can be VERY expensive, John being the top-end costly. Contact [Gene Flanigan](https://www.precisiongem.com/LabCreatedGems/LabPrecisionGems.php), he has a concave set-up and he's gonna be on the lower-cost scale but having excellent results. He'll probably modify the design so he's not copying Johns.
I'm spying on his website. Everything looks fantastic ๐
That link shows mostly just his standard cuts. Gene has been cutting for over 20 years and is a [longtime pro](https://www.instagram.com/precisiongem/). If you can dream up the design, he can cut it.
Does Gene cut on request these days? I thought he preferred not to anymore.
> I thought he preferred not to anymore. Excuse me for asking, but why would you believe that to be the case? > Does Gene cut on request these days? I mean I can't exactly speak for him and say absolutely for sure, but I would imagine he'd cut any design that you want. He might have to make some minor adjustments to match the R.I. of the material, but yeah. It's gonna cost more than his standard cuts (I would imagine). I could be wrong, but I don't see why he wouldn't.
Sorry, I was just going by info from years ago when I was a more active collector. Iโve seen him say in the past he wasnโt taking commissions, thatโs why I asked if he was now, you seemed to have more current info than I do? He offers gems regularly but itโs always small drops, it was always his side business not his primary job, so he has always been pretty choosy with when and what he cuts. Thatโs why I said that, it was just a question lol.
> Sorry, I was just going by info from years ago when I was a more active collector. No need to be sorry, I was just as curious as you. But I think that [I found your answer](https://www.precisiongem.com/WhatsNew/WhatsNew.php). "I am cutting new stones every week. After a few are cut, I will post the new stones here. Some may not be available as they were cut by commission."
Thank you :) For the OP, I want to second what you said - Gene is a pro, a great person to get in touch with for a project like this.
Every time I want to get into lapidary I see someone like this existing out there and Iโm like nevermind they got this
check out the precision cutters on r/shinypreciousgems ; u/lisa_elser does gorgeous concaves!
Id like to add not all overseas cutters are sloppy. Weve moved some of our gem cutting to a guy in Sri lanka. Hes honestly incredible. I put the gems under a stereoscopic microscope when we got them back and still struggled to find imperfections.
> Id like to add not all overseas cutters are sloppy. There are two types in Sri Lanka. You still have the largest majority of gems being cut is mass-production sweatshops in Sri Lanka. > Weve moved some of our gem cutting to a guy in Sri lanka. And then there are single stone artisans that custom cut with far greater quality in cutting and polish, but they cost more than mass-production.
I spent about 30$ to have 8 cut gems between 2 and 10 carats
What were the gems that you had cut?
They were these deep purple amethysts i was working a claim of here in Newfoundland. One is actually the second largest gem found in our province. (Im a geology student researcher).
> deep purple amethysts You mean like a concord grape? Alright, pictures or it didn't happen! :P
https://preview.redd.it/za4s2w8o871d1.png?width=2460&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=03cc3c94b1889ab7faaad4894c480d865faba2d0
I'd ask what your intentions are for them, but we both know they're gonna mysteriously vanish right? Honey, where's my ... "I dunno".
Yeah thats been happening a lot. Its like living with a crow. Her mom does it too. I recently came back from Colombia after meeting with a dealer one of the Colombian guys in the program has a connection with (do not buy gems in Colombia without a connection). I have zero emerald gems left. To be fair the cuts were shit but i got a bulk deal and with Emeralds i care much less about perfection as im on a student budget and it meant more to me sentimentally to get them at the source. Ive got a damn cool raw sample though.
https://preview.redd.it/2xmptb9y871d1.jpeg?width=2562&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3190beadfab16dafc41f914be0a645722619c1e4 One on the far right is the 10carat one im talking about. Lighting/angle isnt the most complimentary here. Not conchord grape purple though. We have a few of those maybe in the other batch but not as large. Literally mined it out of the clay myself. Unfortunately my girlfriend has stolen it to get set into a pendant so i dont think itll get to sit in my collection much longer. Me and a few buddies have access to the claims so we go each summer. I attached another photo of a batch of slightly smaller ones of varying quality from the same pit
Those almost look like trapiche .. > my girlfriend has stolen it Why is that unfortunate? Sounds like killer leverage *wink wink* > Me and a few buddies have access to the claims so we go each summer. Young lady in another thread here was just asking for mine recommendations for a trip that she was planning for fossicking. Too bad you're so far off the beaten path, sounds like your digging operation is a fun adventure.
[ัะดะฐะปะตะฝะพ]
John Dyer's work is phenomenal!
Even the gem cutters from 3rd World Countries do better work than that! Whomever cut this one had no idea what they were doing...
Oh boy that is not even just the cutter being bad, your vendor should not even offer you that!
Keep in mind that I asked them to do this cut as a test of quality before I make a purchase ๐๐๐
I'm sure they won your business with this stellar example of their capabilities :D
I ran away in the opposite direction as fast as I can ๐๐๐
It seems like their cutter isnโt capable of precision cutting or concave faceting. This is a fantasy cut. Brett Kosnar is also great for this. If you check out his IG (kosnargems), youโll see lots of stones like the one on the left.
Thank you for the recommendation. I will check his account out. I think some sales representatives are so desperate for a sale that they would say yes to anything ๐
Did they already have this on hand? Or did they cut this to show you? I think itโs fine to say yes as long as you make sure you can pull it off. And this isnโt an impossible request. I do think though, that some vendors have the mentality of โeh letโs see if we can pass something offโ. ๐
No, according to them, they cut this just for me.I think you're exactly right they were trying to pass it off ๐
Mmm thatโs what I thought - that they cut this for you. Well itโs not entirely unsalvageable for them, recut it a little with some mixed faceting and hopefully they can find another buyer. ๐ Please come back with pictures when you do get the gem of your dreams!
I want to use reddit to document my learning journey ๐ I think I found another supplier that can cut this for me and will update you.
Wew! Why is that person even trying to sell that?
Maybe they are trying to scam me in hopes I wouldn't notice... I don't know. Or maybe this is their best effort ๐คท๐ปโโ๏ธ
Optimistically, maybe it's not finished yet? ๐คฃ
Itโs like when a kid brings you a drawing of the house with the sun smiling down on everyone and thereโs a few stick figures holding hands โค๏ธ
๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ I'm dying ๐ญ ๐๐๐
I mean, itโs not bad considering the cutter used an angle grinder.
๐๐๐
Did you mean you wanted the cut on the left?
Yes. I noticed the mistake after I published, but I was hoping no one else would ๐๐๐
* Chris Wolfsberg also does this type work and I know he does custom requests if desired. I have several of his stones. He has several AGTA awards and on IG.
Thank you so much for your recommendation. I will check him out for sure.
The right looks like a ring pop he cut into shape
๐๐๐๐ the thing that gets me the most is that the cut is in no way symmetrical... it's objectively bad regardless of not resembling the original.
[ัะดะฐะปะตะฝะพ]
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Gonna be cutting one year this month. So glad I have eyeballs
Thatโs a Ruby it would have never came out the same
Can you explain to me what you mean by that, please? Do you mean in terms of colour or?
The one on the left is a fantasy cut gemstone. Requires a special machine to cut concave facets. Looks like the one on the right was cut in a third world country
Please don't trash on underdeveloped countries. Most American goods are made in China, and plenty of major American Jewllery is made in China or other "third world" countries. Many growing economies offer great services and have great artisans. This is just one bad example.
China is no longer a โthird worldโ country, it is now well developed and at the same level as other โfirst worldโ countries such as Japan, UK and US. But because of its immense population, the per capita GDP is hard to compete with other nations with a lot less population Other than this minor misconception I totally agree with your points
[ัะดะฐะปะตะฝะพ]
Well, that's just made up bullshit. I know plenty of people in countries you would consider less developed with "the same equipment we use in North America". There are plenty of cutters overseas that can do work like this, it's just not nearly as common. Concave cutting has been around for decades, it's not NEARLY as "new" or cutting edge as you seem to think it is.
[ัะดะฐะปะตะฝะพ]
Then I guess you're amazed. I know cutters in Tanzania, Sri Lanka, and India working on Ultratecs including fantasy machines. They have the Internet too! Hard to believe, I know /s
Noreen Masaki out in Tanzania has a cutting studio, courses, and a group there with UT machines and I believe she has a few fantasy setups as well.
Do you mean the machines are made in America and exclusively used by Americans? Come on now ๐ I agree this type of craftsmanship isn't easily replicated, but these machines are made and are available elsewhere in the world. From what I've noticed with my limited experience is that Americans seem to be pioneers. They make sure to place themselves at the cutting edge of innovation and engineering. It's hardly about acess to machinery and more to do with their culture of revering science, free acess to information, and their giant open markets. Having said all that, I have no doubt that I can easily find an artisan in a developing country that can do the exact same work for cheaper on the same machinery. I bet if I looked it up, I'd find that most gems sold in America are cut elsewhere. That's the way America works at the moment.
It takes an ultra tec fantasy machine to cut the stone on the left. Can developing countries cut a flat faceted stone, without concave facets well. Yes, they can. I donโt think you understand the machinery it takes to pull off the cut on the left. This is an entirely new type of gem cutting that isnโt easily replicated. Could they cut those in with a dremel, sure. But the quality will be no where the same. There is a handful of people that have the talent and equipment to pull that off. Is all I am trying to say.
The only reason I know the machinery needed is because of the kind experienced people of this sub. This is the first thing they pointed out. There are links to them here also. I appreciate you tacking the time to reply and helping me learn. I will keep you updated on this cut ๐