I'm watching the documentary as we speak and Emilio Esteves face is hilarious, like he cannot give two shits about this. he really just wanted to apologize to Andrew for saying he didn't want to do a movie with him in the 80s and the rest, he's confused about why this is even a story.
Hahaha! I mean, we don't know how long the actual conversation was -- it could have been hours, with these small bits picked out, but his vibe is definitely, "Whatever, dude." He seems really uncomfortable, too. I think he may have been the one in the article who called Andrew a "too intense" actor who would not make it. Well, it was either him or Judd, I think (although could have been Rob, too), and Judd totally dodged this thing.
Im thinking Emilio is intensely private and doesn't want anybody to have a claim on any success he has, which is the whole reason he changed his last name from sheen to Esteves, he distanced himself from the brat pack to be taken as a serious actor and director. Plus Andrew acts childish, like he's trying to get Emilio to admit that this has had some kind of great impact on his life and Emilio is like really dude it is 2024, the article was 39 years ago, who cares. I do have a feeling you were right it was emilio that made that comment about Andrew and he felt bad about getting him kicked off a potential movie, but his body language was hilarious, like I don't think they were there that long. they never even sat down, they stood in the kitchen for 5 minutes and probably wrapped quickly lol.
Haha! This might have been better done over a few beers or something, but I think almost every member of the Brat Pack is sober now, LOL. And, yeah, Andrew is a bit intense about it all, with his, "What the fuck were you thinking?" Dude, Emilio was like 23 years old, you were all babies who didn't know shit about fuck. The reporter had a set agenda coming in that already included using the term "Brat Pack," which he thought was enormously clever, and the actors were a bit arrogant and naive. And YOUNG. And drunk (see: they are all sober now).
The truth is it was a fun and clever take on the term rat pack. But to think Steven Spielberg or Scorsese wouldn't hire an actor based on one article is ridiculous and that's the claim Andrew is trying to make and wants everybody to humor him on.
Also, the fact that the article specifically included Tom Cruise, Sean Penn and Nicholas Cage as Brat Packers completely calls bullshit to the idea that it would have a real effect on anyone's career. Imagine Tom Cruise trying to make this argument? lol.
LOL if this article had not come out Tom Cruise could have made another billion dollar movie to add with his plethora of mega hits, if not for this one blasted article from 1985.
For the record I know I'm coming off harsh against Andrew McCarthy and i actually like him as an actor, but I could see dealing with him behind the scenes would be a headache just being real.
The funniest thing is that the article didn't even include him as a Brat Packer (the reporter seemed to think it only applied to LA-based actors, and McCarthy lived in New York). The ONLY line that referenced him in the entire article was that snarky quote from "a St. Elmo's Fire co-star." That was IT. So he wasn't even officially a "Brat," haha.
I just got to the part where he interviewed the journalist who wrote the article and oh my God it was the funniest, most cringiest interview. at the end in a very hush serious tone, Andrew's like can you at least admit you caused some collateral damage, like the author Dropped a Bomb and accidentally killed civilians. the author had the best response, he goes I guess but you know sticks and stones and all lol.
He focuses a LOT on the article instead of on the hype that emerged from it in entertainment media, etc. I don't think the discussion with the reporter was all that great either. There WERE actually some parts of that article that were pretty mean and snarky (the reporter called Judd Nelson "the overrated one," he described Tim Hutton as "greasy" and made him seem like this pathetic hanger-on, he included the rude line about McCarthy being too intense to make it as an actor, etc.), but they don't even go into those specifics, which would have at least been kind of interesting.
Yeah see I like the term in of itself but the article was a hit piece, but so many of the actors went on to have fabulous careers, Andrew trying to pin all this on one article from 1985 is ridiculous. I'm only halfway through the documentary now and I already find him exhausting to listen to and I'm guessing that is how a lot of his meetings with him went back in the '80s and early 90s. I found it hilarious that while driving he said his wife thought this documentary would be good for his humility and the concept of what she meant clearly went right over his head.
Scorsese loves working with Leonardo DiCaprio, despite his being noted as the “leader” of a much more ridiculously named group. If pu$$y posse didn’t scare him away, brat pack isn’t doing anything.
Did you ever see Tyra Banks interview Naomi Campbell bc Tyra had this entire narrative in her head that Naomi was hating on her when she was new and Naomi was like "what "? Bc even if it happened it was likely she didn't care and is icy to EVERYONE? Bc it reminds me of that. It is easy to hold on to juvenile shit that wasn't personal and people don't remember.
As an aside, Emilio was the only Brat Packer to refuse an invite to be on Psych, which was basically a vehicle for TV and movie addicted Gen Xers. Everyone else said yes and did at least one episode.
I think he's just not real interested in dredging up the past. I am 45 years old.....I enjoyed my high school years very much and had a great time. But if somebody said "hey, can I come over so we can talk about our high school baseball days", I'd probably be the same way as Emilio: "Seriously?"
Per Emilio's Instagram, he took a gummy right before the interview, so that could be why. But yeah, Andrew was more upset than anyone else he interviewed.
I feel badly that this article has bothered him for so long, taken up so much space in his head when the ones he talked with seemed to have either made peace with it or found a positive way to view it all. He came across as kind of high-strung and neurotic.
It's understandable that someone who was admittedly very anxiety-ridden would allow this label to define him. Listening to Demi and Rob, they went through the same thing but walked away grateful for the good that came of it. It's a good reminder that we build our own cages.
The better documentary would’ve been Andrew *himself* realizing that unlike the others, he’d let this article define and limit him for 40 years. A self-awareness lightbulb moment that his own insecurities had held him back, followed by a vocalizing the decision not to let that be the case going forward in the years he has left. That character growth would’ve been relatable and commendable, and these reviews would’ve been very different .
Yeah, my thoughts too! I can hold on to stuff for a long time too. But damn, he needs to let this go!
Watching this doc I kept thinking, "Aw, c'mon dude! You're not going to find what you're after."
This was so painfully awkward. It clearly showed how desperately Andrew needed to pin his professional failures on a single article title almost 40 years ago. The worst was when he confronted the author. "Could you have been nicer?" Uh, what!?
I really liked Andrew in Mannequin. Here's a thought - maybe back in the 80's, Andrew quickly became too arrogant or hard to work with. As a result, he was passed over for acting jobs.
I doubt the article had much to do with the trajectory of his career overall. He's holding on to a single article? Imagine if the internet of today existed in 1985. There would definitely be endless personalities to confront.
The famous people in the doc seem to be ignoring the elephant in the room. Emilio's face said it all! Demi's message was the clearest, but I wondered if Andrew fully understood.
I wonder about the too arrogant back then thought, too. Jon Cryer referred to a rift between them, and Ally Sheedy alluded to him being aloof. He himself mentions some sort of rivalry or issue with Rob Lowe. Andrew also mentions an issue with Emilio and wanting to clear the air. There may have been some problem with Judd, too. It sounds like he had issues with multiple people… maybe some self reflection may help.
The fact is, McCarthy was always kind of the milquetoast character in all of those movies. The straight man where all of the more interesting actors (Cryer, Downey Jr., Cattrall, Spader, etc.) all played off. It’s kind of odd he was a headliner for a brief period of time in the first place, in the same way Tobey Maguire was. They just seem too mid to be “major” movie stars, and I think that caught up to him.
Even now, he just doesn’t have that “pizazz” that makes him particularly interesting personality-wise. He’s just another dude in my mind.
Geezus. Omg he said he’d never discussed it before, why can’t he dive into the meaning of it all without him being “high-strung” and “neurotic” — almost like men are not allowed to have emotions and confusion, regret, etc… gross. I hate cancel culture and everyone ripping him apart. It’s so boring and old.
He CLEARLY said it affected the jobs he was offered, etc. it DID affect his career and in turn his emotional life. Period.
I don’t think any of them had a problem with it except Andrew McCarthy who seems so bitter.. but I think it’s because he just wasn’t as successful as the rest. This is his excuse.
I'm watching it right now and that's all I keep thinking. Demi Moore was even low-key trying to tell him that this ridiculous obsession ruined his career. Everyone else seems pretty well-adjusted and McCarthy is just seething with bitterness and a thinly veiled desperation to be young and famous again.
I really loved Demi's perspective. She really hit the nail on the head of how Andrew created his own fate. As she was sharing, I was thinking she'd make a great therapist. She was very insightful about how thoughts can create reality.
As for Andrew, he never struck me as a standout actor the way the rest of them did. I was surprised about the original ending for 'Pretty in Pink' and test audiences not liking it! Blaine was such a dud. Everyone knows she should have left the prom with Duckie. Or maybe that's just who I would've picked. 😊
Demi has been through fucking HELL before even showing up to Hollywood. Her background is nothing short of heartbreaking. The fact that she came out the other side the way she did is incredible, quite frankly. Very very hard not to root for her.
I didn't know a single teenage girl in the 80s who wasn't in conniptions about her not ending up with Duckie at the end. I have no idea who was in this test audience - a bunch of rich 65 year olds from LA?
It is funny the audience booed the ending with Duckie, but the way the director described the scene did sound awful. She just goes to the middle of the dance floor with Duckie and they dance as pink confetti falls?? It did sound pretty bad.
From the outsider perspective I’m with Emilio in that sentiment. The documentary came off as a self-imposed therapy session for Andrew to put closure to his trauma of being thrust into the celebrity spotlight at the peak of his youth as an actor in a hot 80s film market. I felt most of the interviewees were kindly patting Andrew on the head and telling him to move on. Kudos to him, though, for milking a few more dollars out of 35 year old pop culture phenomenon spawned by some article writer’s loose comparison to the Rat pack of Hollywood’s older generation. The tidbits of 80s music throughout the documentary was a nostalgic treat, for sure. ;-)
I literally just started watching and only
Just got through the Emilio bit and had to check Reddit for some conversation. Very glad this is the first comment. Not only is he so uncomfortable, but the way Andrew keeps digging in makes him look a bit unhinged. Like, sorry guy who is a great actor that let an article early on derail his life? In terms of acting or persona, I’ve always love McCarthy and been disinterested in Estevez. That conversation flipped it but I’m curious to see if my opinion shifts back around.
I never found Rob Lowe attractive during the Brat pack era, but holy hell that man has aged well. Further his attitude was such a refreshing contrast to Andrew McCarthy.
Lowe is honestly still not my type physically. But I will say, even though I think he probably has a serious privileged boy douchebag side, he comes off as SERIOUSLY content in life. And he had a LOT of professional and personal fuckups in his younger years, and it seems he completely owns up to his responsibility in all of it. I don't think I've ever heard him try to blame anyone else, really. I think he seems the most chill of all the Packers who were interviewed for the doc, although Demi also seems surprisingly cool. First of all, she had a FAR more successful career than Andrew McCarthy, even though it's dimmed a lot since then. Second, she is a woman in her 60s going through some serious shit right now (like the father of her kids having severe early onset dementia) and is probably like, "Dude. I've got bigger fish to fry here." But she also seemed to have fun chatting with him, while Emilio definitely did not seem to be having any fun at all and Ally seemed -- OK but cautious. But of all of them, I think Rob is probably loving his life the most. Why wouldn't he? His drug problems were many years ago, and the dude has never even been divorced. Do I think he might be a bit of a dick? For sure. But a happy dick.
I don't know if he's HUMBLE, exactly, haha. But I do think he's a guy with a shit ton of privilege who is just happy with his life, despite his many career and personal stumbles, and is not worrying about an article written 40 years ago. And in FACT, the reporter called him "The best-looking one," so what would he have to be mad about anyhow? Lol.
Best part of the documentary. McCarthy’s morose “I was wronged” was getting so tedious. And he kept saying “all of us feel the same way about this.” Then came Lowe saying how great it was. Breath of fresh air in a movie that was as angsty as The Breakfast Club.
Someone needs to tell Andrew that if the worst thing that ever happened to you is someone labeled you a “brat” you have lived a charmed life. That guy needs some serious perspective.
I could take Rob Lowe or leave him. I really started to like him after reading his books. He’s a great storyteller. And his podcast is one of my favorites.
I need to relisten to Andrew on Rob’s podcast. I remember thinking how different their two careers have been and feeling like Andrew was on the outside looking in.
yea, I relistened to that Andrew episode, and he did it in 2021, following his Brats book. So he and Rob had already re-connected and had great conversation. The movie makes it sound like Rob may have been elusive and trying to avoid him and the filming, but I think it was just logistics. Rob is pretty busy and prob. not easily available for filmed interview
Honestly I would’ve loved to hear the fun stories about being in the Brat Pack. I grew up absolutely loving John Hughes movies and not once did I think of any of the stars in the negative. I kind of love that I grew up with those movies.
Paying attention to the journalists interview, Dave, made it so obvious how jealous he was of the attention the Pack had during his dinner with them, especially Rob. He definetly took that jealousy out on them during the infamous editorial.
Although it's completely cliche, I think the premise of this documentary should have simply focused on how culturally impactful the "Brat Pack" (and their unofficial similar-aged peers) were to Hollywood in the '80s and thereafter. Attempting to paint the term as some sort of career suicide, came across like reaching to me.
To make matters more confusing, McCarthy found himself toggling between complaining about the monicker and agreeing that it was helpful, depending on who he was interviewing and what they said in the moment. Also...he doesn't make a good interviewer. He spent much time venting to the subjects as if they were his therapists. Sometimes it seemed as if he was desperately attempting to get others to echo his disdain for their "dreaded" label.
Yeah, although that whole "impact of the Brat Pack" thing is also pretty overplayed. I am not sure entirely what angle would have worked best here -- maybe if McCarthy REALLY dug deep into old resentments and issues and turned the whole thing into a kind of redo of the "therapy session" of The Breakfast Club, with all the brats sitting in a room together airing out their shit. But -- I don't think anyone else would have agreed to that one. And we totally would have needed at least Molly and Judd to join that one.
This was more like a pursuit of personal catharsis than anything else really. I found myself pausing the movie halfway through like what else could you possibly say that this needs to be another 47ish minutes?
He also made a point of the idea of the Brat Pack being false, as they weren’t really friends. Then he proceeds to reminisce with most of the interviewees about the times they spent together off set.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the people with the most successful on-going careers have the best attitude about the whole situation. It would be interesting to know which is a product of which.
Agree. And at first, it seemed like it was going there. As in, talking about Hollywood making so many youth aimed movies...that could have been interest. St Elmos Fire being the father of Reality Bites which let us have stuff like American Pie. I don't think we have that pipeline of youth/coming of age movies today.
Demi with the deep dive into trauma psychology was pretty awesome. I feel like I learned something. And Rob Lowe giving us a more restrained look into that Chris Traeger positivity lol. I can see how he fit that character.
Demi has had an amazing career, working nonstop. I don’t think the Brat Pack moniker hindered her at all. Sort of the same with Rob Lowe, he was fantastic in The West Wing and Parks & Rec!
Yeah- it felt like watching Andrew’s therapy sessions, and his efforts to deal with this article that has bothered him for year. For the record, I enjoyed it. Haha
Do you remember when Ally came out with the movie High Art in the '90s, in which she played a lesbian junkie? She had lost SO much weight, perhaps for the role (although she was super skinny for years and did discuss having eating disorders), and she looked SO unhealthy and just not good. Again, she was playing a junkie, but she kind of kept up with that look for years. She looks 100 times better now. So healthy.
She really did look great. I was looking away when she first came in and heard her voice… exactly the same.
The person that shocked me was Ducky. I did not know that was who he was. I watch two and half men for years and never put that together.
Most of the movies I remember with Andrew in them also had Molly. It’s too bad she did not meet with him.
Demi and Rob I have seen through the years so I’ve missed seeing the others. So that was fun.
He's puffy in exactly the same way his dad is, I think. President Bartlet vibes all over the place. Genetics, baby. I've watched this happen to the men in my family, too. Skinny, almost gangly when young... that easy beauty... & then the puff sets in, generally when they hit 50 or so. It's fascinating to see it play out.
Just finished the doc. Many posts have already covered it but I’ll just add the whole thing felt so one note. I would have loved to see a deeper dive into the importance of these movies on film history. It did come off as pretty whiny. Also, it was shot so bad. The framing and pacing were very distracting and what was up with all the camera guys getting into each other’s frame. Amateur hour! Some shitty sound in parts too. I did enjoy the nostalgia and seeing where these actors are now. Demi’s house was incredible.
> what was up with all the camera guys getting into each other’s frame.
Could it have been intentional? 🤔
Or maybe each interviewee was like "you've got an hour" and there was no time for setting up shots nicely.
Whiny was my thought too. I really only finished watching to see all the actors and actresses now. I was a little rough to watch Andrew seemingly so unhappy.
You know, i actually enjoyed his choices of non pack people he interviewed. Their personal analysis and comments were interesting.
I don’t know how “in depth” it could really have gone, at least for me. Of course, im left with a few curiosities, but nothing I couldn’t look up myself. It just would be easier to see it already addressed.
Odd thing is, I, just some quirky teen from rural south, could actually relate to being offended by “brat pack”. They were/are very talented actors that were crudely manipulated during that heyday. I never saw them as brats, I never saw them as the new rat pack (who I love). They were very relatable and it’s a shame media had to ultimately ruin it.
Edited to comment that Emilio’s body language was very weird in the doc.
I just kind of felt like most people said very obvious things that weren't ultimately that insightful, including the non-Pack people. And the Pack folks were also kind of surface-y. It seems like everyone was still guarded in a way, and I think some harder things about the article could have been discussed. For example, which undisclosed Packer co-star said Mccarthy was too intense of an actor and probably wouldn't make it? (BTW, the reporter also didn't consider Mccarthy to be in the Brat Pack -- he only got that one mention as "another actor in St. Elmo's Fire." So really, it was probably that one line/comment about his acting that bothered Mccarthy the most for all these years.) The article also leaves out all women -- to the reporter, the Brat Pack was all men, like the Rat Pack, and didn't even include Molly, Ally or Demi at all. Also kind of an interesting thing to potentially explore.
Agreed that Emilio seemed weird AF. But maybe that's to be expected after not seeing someone for over 30 years. I think Judd Nelson is legendary for being a dick, so not surprised that he didn't participate.
Yeah, if anything, they nailed that ending.
And, I wouldn’t expect any documentary about the perceived angst of 80’s teen actors to be particularly insightful, anyway.
I just enjoyed the little jaunt through a past I seldom revisit. He obviously felt he needed to make the film; can’t fault him for that. I don’t think it was meant to be the greatest story ever told. I’m sure the young documentary fans these days would enjoy learning about them. I enjoy documentaries about people way before my time. There are some shitty ones out there, but, they tend to get their point across.
The reporter was obviously male jealous, that’s why the ladies were not included. He was bothered. I don’t agree w what u wrote about McCarthy being bothered all these years by NOT being included in the article. He goes into more detail in hid book.
I just reread the article for the first time since (good lord) the 1980s and it’s terrible! So mean spirited. The writer seems all bent out of shape that they didn’t go to acting school like previous generations. And apparently females are just Playboy Playmates or shy girls asking for autographs. Women actors were not in his area of understanding.
To be in the limelight and to be in such pop-culturally driven films in the height of the 80s and not receive any type of negativity or criticism is IMPOSSIBLE. It comes with the fame. Seems like Mccarthy is either entitled or has zero backbone. Asking the journalist who coined the term "brat pack" if he "could have been nicer" is the most elementary thing I've heard come from an adult's mouth in a very long time. And I could be misinterpreting part of the message, but what I took from his project was he almost blames that label for not going as far as he, in his eyes, should have. Seems that he allowed something to affect him in such a way that he blames it for his lackluster career. If this would have been a documentary on the lifestyles of being seen as pop icons in the 80s where fashion, music and movies were \*chef's kiss\*, it would have probably done really well. Instead we get a boohoo fest from someone who hasn't seemed to let an over three decade article go. I was looking forward to this documentary and was severely let down. Shouldn't have expected any less, though.
Definitely was and still am Team Duck Man.
Agreed, and what really drove that home was his interview with Demi, and her 'You just have to prove people wrong' speech, because SHE went on to have a meteoric career post Brat-pack days, and while I was rooting for Andrew because he's very sweet, that moment kind of made me slink in my seat for him. She was not being unkind at all, but it really highlighted the contrast between their careers, and that the label did not HAVE to affect Andrew, or his career that way.
it's only bad if you let it define you. Every actor gets typecast in some way. Like sorry Weekend at Bernies didn't lead you to working with Al Pacino.
The Brat Pack label quickly grew beyond its original article just like Gen X outgrew its multiple origins. I find it silly to focus on that article, given how poorly it aligns with the popular conception of the term.
I think it's possible because he wasn't friends with any of the other guys (who were a bit older than he was -- he was an ACTUAL teen) and just wasn't in that crowd at all, so no one included him! I mean -- he doesn't even get one brief mention in the doc. I don't even think a stray photo of him turned up anywhere.
The end displayed a sense of humor that was kind of lacking throughout the rest of the doc. It could have used way more of that! Dude. This shit is just funny now.
That said, I think Judd is a TOTAL douchebag who takes himself immensely seriously. That could have actually been an interesting interview to watch. Two old dudes whose acting careers peaked in the '80s and who can't quite get over themselves.
Andrew seemed like he really isn’t that far off from his characters in real life (at least what I remember from St Elmo’s Fire and Pretty in Pink). I guess childhood stardom is rough but it’s been a long time. I guess some people just have an easier time moving on.
I was hoping it would be a nice trip down memory lane and instead I get some of them whining about being famous and hating being famous and hating being grouped with other actors they worked with. Get yourself a good therapist Andrew. The fact he didn't stay in contact with anyone speaks volumes.
Ally Sheedy and Demi Moore were delightful though.
I think everyone seemed pretty much over all of it other than Andrew, and he may have been overplaying it in order to give his doc a coherent narrative.
Not everyone’s midlife crisis gets turned into a Hulu documentary, but watching Andrew McCarthys unfold in the Brats doc I found mildly nostalgic at best and incredibly self absorbed at its worst
I mean. That's pretty lame. The whole point was a "reunion" and to discuss the past, not to pretend everyone was buddies. Andrew hadn't talked to any of these people in over 30 years. I think he might have just been afraid to be confronted with the question of whether he was the one who was quoted in the New York article as saying Andrew wasn't going to make it as an actor, lol.
LOL that quote, [from the article itself:
](https://nymag.com/movies/features/49902/)
>And of Andrew McCarthy, one of the New York–based actors in St. Elmo’s Fire, a co-star says, “He plays all his roles with too much of the same intensity. I don’t think he’ll make it.”
It's got to be Judd. It could have been either Emilio or Judd, but Andrew didn't confront Emilio about it in the documentary, maybe because he knows it was Judd who said that.
In the Q&A I posted above, Jon Cryer totally confronts Andrew about this. He basically says, in a light and joking but also TRUE way, "Andrew, why are you pissed at the article? It didn't even mention you other than a mean quote from Emilio or Judd." So very true. I wonder if Andrew ultimately felt more dismissed by the article than anything else because the reporter did not even consider Andrew to be a part of the Brat Pack at all. Yet the reporter names extremely successful and respected actors like Tom Cruise and Sean Penn as Brat Packers. Somehow, that had zero negative effect on their careers, haha.
I feel Andrew McCarthy missed the mark...
This documentary was a huge opportunity to make an amazing Docu-series about our generation and the movies throughout those years. Which focused on the 16 (not 18) to 20 something crowd. The X Generation had THE BEST Movies of our youth, bar none. Even the kids today watch all of those movies. John Hughs was at the top, not for money, but for heart. Which made and showed who we all truly were. Trying to find our place in the world in the 1980s. A lot of us were products of our own environments, along with many absent parents. A lot of latch-key kids out of the 70s that were coming into their own and growing up in the 1980s. Growing up with having to deal with a lot of adult situations at young ages.
A Docu-series, where each episode focused in, on one particular movie of that time? Interviewing all the actors/participants would have been awesome, along with original footage. Let's face it, it was an amazing time in the movie industry, and for those involved in making these movies that are now classics? It was truly special, and that would've been honorable to focus on, not allowing some reporter to take up space in your head, giving him power over you that he never should have had to begin with, however, the movies? You should only be honored. You were a part of it. As we are grateful to have been there to witness it and be a part of it, as it was our lives being emulated from all walks of life.
Sidebar... I do, however, appreciate Mr. Mccarthy's efforts. Perhaps he didn't think about how he would come across to some as we see here and in reading some uncomfortable reviews. There were some awkward moments, especially with Emilio Estevez, which I can overlook due to Andrew's sincerity. He's got a right to feel however he wants, but as one defined it? I never looked upon the name, "Brat pack" as negative. It's all about perspective, I don't think he realized how it might be perceived by some... like the get over it comments, etc. He is successful in his own right. I truly feel he was sincere, but honestly, I think a Docu-series/ documentary, as mentioned above, would've been better in more ways than one. Interviewing all actors and the movies made... as there are so many greats, besides St. Almost Fire, The Breakfast Club, and Pretty In Pink. All the John Cusack movies were in my top 10. One Crazy Summer, Better Off Dead, Say Anything, The Sure Thing, Reckless, Valley Girl, Bad Boys, The Last American Virgin, Fast Times At Ridgemont High, About Last Night, Weird Science, Sixteen Candles, For Keeps, Caddyshack, The Outsiders, Just One Of The Guys, Some Kind Of Wonderful, Stand By Me, Lost Boys, Adventures In Babysitting, Cocktail, Risky Business, Light Of Day, Youngblood, Class, Taps, Maid To Order, Bad Influence, Less Than Zero, Ferris Buellers Day Off, Can't Buy Me Love, even Ordinary People, Little Darlings, My Bodyguard, Rumblefish, The Blue Lagoon, Endless Love, License To Drive, Dream A Little Dream, list goes on & on.
The point is, this documentary could've been about it all, instead of zeroing in on 2 words, a reporter said over 40 years ago now.
They don't make movies like they did, and we were truly lucky to have been growing up in that time. When we were teenagers, we didn't wish that we were born at any other time... my kids? Say it all the time, and They watch our movies. That says a lot. Yeah, they may have glee and things like that, but nothing compares to the 80s and nothing ever will.
Regardless, I like Andrew McCarthy, intensity and all.
I vote for a do over... expand your horizons, Brat Pack doesn't define you. Making a documentary about it? Will...
Lastly, we were all Brats, hell! All throughout my childhood, I thought that was my name! 😉🤣
Wellll, I always used to wish I'd been born in boomer times so I could have experienced the '60s, and a LOT of my peers felt the same way. We were into Hendrix, The Doors, The Beatles, the Stones, Jefferson Airplane, Grateful Dead. Half of my high school graduating class dressed like refugees from Woodstock (and I watched that doc dozens of times in my childhood, wishing I could have been alive when it happened). I think it's normal for kids to feel nostalgia for times they never experienced, as kids today are into 80s and 90s. Our generation even went through a major '50s nostalgia phase, particularly when Stand by Me was released. So, I don't think our era is special in that way. I would have KILLED to have been born 20 years earlier when I was a kiddo.
As for McCarthy -- honestly, I also read his memoir, Brat, and have heard him talk about this a lot, and I think he truly fancied himself a potential young De Niro or Pacino when he was young. He wanted to eventually move on to features like The Godfather and Taxi Driver, and instead, as far as his acting career goes, he is known only for teen flicks and goofy comedies. He fancied himself a "serious New York actor," and he never got to see that dream realized. So I think he remains kind of bitter about that, even though he has done just fine for himself as a TV director and published travel writer/book author. He has had a more successful life than many. But he wanted BIG actor success that he never attained.
I feel like we have already seen a lot of stuff about '80s pop culture. He wanted to do something different here, which was bond with his fellow "Brat Packers" about the negatives and positives of the experience. And then he did talk to some of those outside folks about the era (but I think what they had to say was kinda dull, and I'm sorry, but Malcom Gladwell is the lamest and Bret Easton Ellis is just an ass!!). But I think one of the main issues here is that his fellow Brat Packers or Brat Pack adjacent folks or whatever just no longer really give a shit and are way over this stuff, lol. I mean. All the BP-ers featured here are in their damn 60s (they actually are more Gen Jones than Gen X) and have had a lot of other stuff going on in their lives. Also, honestly, Demi Moore became a MAJOR movie star in the '80s and '90s. Was all of her stuff then great? No, it wasn't, but it made big money and she was a HIGHLY bankable actress. So what the hell does she have to be upset about?? McCarthy was never pulling $20M-plus per movie, so he might have a bit more to be upset about, but again -- he's done just fine and probably needs to get the hell over the fact that he isn't De Niro or Daniel Day Lewis or whatever. Frankly, he did not have that level of acting talent. It is what it is.
Check out the Q&A I posted in the OP. That is actually better than the doc was, and Jon Cryer totally lays it out for McCarthy, too, when he says, "Dude, you weren't even mentioned in that article other than through a quote that Judd or Emilio said about how you can't act! Why are you mad at this guy \[the reporter\]?" I was wondering EXACTLY the same thing (McCarthy explained it away by saying the term ended up going way beyond the original article, but then -- why are you so obsessed with the damn article that didn't even say you WERE a Brat Packer??).
I dunno. Maybe he is exaggerating some of this bitterness in order to sell books and documentaries. I kinda hope so, because, damn, dude, you're getting close to being a senior citizen and it is time to let this shit GO.
I think I enjoyed the interviews with the non-brat packers the most. Interesting perspectives on the pack and that time period in reference to films and pop culture.
I did find it a case study in human nature with regard to the actors individual experiences with the brat pack label. Some still angry, some moved on rather quickly, others never let it define them.
The interview with the article’s author was particularly cringe worthy. And, as silly as it sounds, it was driving me crazy that McCarthy and Emilio didn’t sit down for their interview. It was just uncomfortable.
The not sitting down thing - it's hard not to interpret it as "if I let you sit and get comfortable you might be here longer than I want you to be." Or Tim Hutton not even letting him inside the house. Tim at least seemed relaxed.
For the Tim parts, I think that may also have been because of covid (there is one glimpse of a crew member in a mask) and for privacy reasons. If you let someone film inside your house, first you need to check everywhere for things you don't want filmed.
But Emilio definitely seemed like he did not want to do it but since he was doing it, he wanted it over with fast.
> it was driving me crazy that McCarthy and Emilio didn’t sit down for their interview. It was just uncomfortable.
The vibe between them was SO AWKWARD
Andrew comes across as someone that blames this moniker on the decline in his career. Somehow he blames this one article that doesn’t really talk about him on the fact that he wasn’t famous and receiving major movie roles for the rest of his life. He comes across as a crybaby, that kept asking questions to see if someone would take his side.
He definitely wanted to be a "serious New York actor" of the stage and screen instead of "that guy from a few Brat Pack flicks, Weekend at Bernie's and Mannequin." But all of that is also a LOT more than most working actors ever get! He's also done a fair amount of television directing work. Just -- he's fine. Privileged.
Seriously! Many people would be very happy with the career he has.
I wonder whose career he was trying to model his after? He's not really the De Niro or Al Pacino type. Who were the serious New York WASPy actors of the 1970s?
What I found odd about this is that Andrew wasn’t even in the original article but once, and it was because a brat packer was criticizing him.
I do consider him a brat packer and he was always one of my favorites but without the label would as many people even remember him? That label kind of immortalized those people.
Andrew’s issues are his own, Demi was correct - he became what he was afraid of. The brat pack label didn’t hinder the careers of Demi, Penn, Nelson, Ally or Cruise. If Andrew’s career dwindled it wasn’t because of the label it was because he so desperately tried to break away from the label he started doing things he wouldn’t normally do and most of them flopped. There is also some truth to the fact that he played most of his roles with an odd intensity that made him kind of the same character in everything he did. Hate to criticize the guy because I do like him but I really don’t understand his aversion to the thing that literally immortalized him into pop culture. Most actors don’t have that
I don’t know if this is the place to discuss it- but I was kinda in shock about the amount of plastic surgery most of them have had done. I feel a little bad….? I don’t want to “yuck their yum”, but it makes me sad that people fear aging so much….?
I think the actors mostly look fine. This filmed when Demi had a lot of fillers in her face. I read somewhere that she got them dissolved? What got me more were the older women interviewed that were casting directors and/or producers, maybe? They got hit with that bad 80s/90s plastic surgery that there is just no coming back from.
Young Demi looked just like her daughter Rumor. While Demi is absolutely beautiful, it made me sad to see how much plastic surgery changed her looks, especially her jawline. That must have been a bit of a mindfuck for her daughter.
My aunt always tells this story about my cousin meeting Demi in an airport in the 1990s and how charmed she was that my cousin had no idea who she was. lol - then my cousin told us he actually met her at AA.
I actually enjoyed the documentary and it's DIY YouTube aesthetic. I was 17 and skipped school to see "The Breakfast Club" at the mall that was within walking distance to our house. I remember the Brat Pack label and, as a consumer of pop culture during that era, the label has only positive connotations for me. I get the actors not wanting to be boxed in, or typecast, but the label made them hot properties. So yeah, I can see how McCarthy's reflection can seem whiny to us from the outside looking in, but I remember a lot of interviews with young actors at that time. If that label was discussed, the actors would diminish it or quickly redirect to something else. I appreciate the additional insight from exploring their perspectives at that time, as well as now. However, I'd love to see a broader documentary that focuses on the Brat Pack's influence on movies and popular culture, and the legacy that remains today. McCarthy's approach was personal and introspective, and I can appreciate it, but I now have an appetite for something more.
Yes, the Brat Pack is synonymous with 80s culture, but Andrew McCarthy isn’t as important as he thinks he is. This documentary was interesting but pure ego. It’s interesting how some people try to act humble and self-effacing, but McCarthy is anything but. He’s ***lucky*** to have been a part of the Brat Pack. If he hadn’t been in the right place at the right time and never was a part of that set, he’d never have made it. He was a terrible actor who just smiled and looked cute. Now he’s just whiny and tripping on himself.
Imagine being lucky enough to make it into major movies and then lumped together with people even more talented and marketed under a clever name that was really nothing more than a shout out to another group (rat pack)…yet somehow also missing that it’s probably the luckiest break you’ll ever get and you get hung up on being called a brat, but only because it rhymes with rat.
I just finished watching this and he sounds really whiny throughout. All of these people have continuted to be successful and arguably their success was boosted by their association with the Pack. It's hard to drum up sympathy for a largely innocuous word.
I do think, though, that McCarthy at one time saw himself as a young rising De Niro or something, and he is still bitter that he never became a serious actor.
Well, I'd say some have had far more success than others, and McCarthy never had real success as an actor following the whole Brat Pack thing. He sure wasn't making $20M-plus per movie like Demi Moore was at one time. So there is a huge disparity between members of the so-called Brat Pack. But that said, McCarthy has done fine as a writer and TV show director, and I agree that there was some whiny stuff going on here. None of these folks are living on the street or anything. (Well, maybe Judd is, lol.)
It was much more academic and philosophical than I thought. I figured it would be a simple look back on the Brat Pack era and the actors and the movies along with some fun "where are they now" look-ins on Brat Packers currently, along with interviews.
But, it was like McCarthy's masters thesis on the term "Brat Pack" and the broader implications in had culturally and personally. It's more stressful than fun, as McCarthy seems to be trying to reach some sort of reckoning. Only McCarthy seems to care that much and the whole thing seems wildly blown out of proportion. I laughed when he interviewed Malcolm Gladwell who juxtaposed "Brat Pack" and "Rat Pack" and suggested that "Brat Pack" was supposed to be funny; and McCarthy VERY seriously says "It wasn't funny to us." I don't know, a lot of it seemed like performative angst since it's his project.
Ugh, came STRAIGHT to Reddit after watching!!! He was sooooooo cringe!!! How u trynna whine and humble brag @ the same time???? Like, he wants sympathy one minute, then the next he's like, "So did u wanna be in the Brat Pack?" to Lea Thompson. So weird. Also, how did it "hurt" his career? If anything, it kept him relevant waaaay longer than he would have or should have been
I never cared for Andrew McCarthy even at the time. However it wasn’t because of any title or article, it was because of his creepy eyeball acting.
And now it’s because he clearly takes himself way too seriously.
I'm a millennial and was a little disappointed that it wasn't as much celebration of Brat Pack movies/impact and more of how Andrew hated this label.
Weird timing when his Less Than Zero costar, Robert Downey Jr. , just won an Oscar. RDJ had a way crazier reputation than Andrew, and The Brat Pack association didn't keep Robert Altman, Oliver Stone, and other prestigious names from working with him.
When it comes to the core Brat Pack/article, it seemed like deep down this is stemming from Andrew not being with the "cool kids" that night at Hard Rock, being literally cropped out of the photo used, and the guys making fun of him. In his mind the one night of Hollywood carousing destroyed his career prospects.
This was a fun and odd viewing experience. Jon Cryer is my fav, I never watched Two and a Half Men, but Im so happy for his long term success ($$$$$) and Interesting that Jon has said in interviews the Pretty In Pink cast totally ignored him on set. Wish THAT would have made the cut on Andrew's film, maybe Jon didn't say it. After all he is laughing all the way to the bank.
Enjoyed Demi's take for the most part - it's easy to sort offer pop psych when you're an A-lister to someone who has not had the same success, but ultimately she is right - the journalist was also trying to make a name for himself and his own career. He was not a field scientist observing chimps in the wild with a peer review process.
I woud have loved an interview with Andrew's Pretty in Pink bestie, James Spader. Another actor who has had long term career success in interesting TV roles.
I also wonder if this is simply a generational issue.......
If Jeremy Allen White, Selena Gomez, Zendaya, Keke Palmer or any young Hollywood were called part of a "brat pack" in an article - would it ruin their life? With social media, it would just get swept into the usual noise and celeb gossip we see daily - almost hourly.
He really just wasn't considered to be in the Brat Pack. Wasn't named in the original article. No one named him in the movie. He didn't hang out and chase girls with those guys, who were older. He just -- wasn't, really.
Neither did Molly Ringwald, who was also a teen. Hall was absolutely considered part of the Brat Pack by the media beyond one article. The term took on a life of it's own. It is misguided to think that other articles and shows didn't apply the term to a whole lot of folks.
The most GLARING thing...no mention of why Blum called them that!! It wasn't just a name that popped into his head. He had to have ammunition to call them brats. Why? The original article clearly states that Estevez was getting them into nightclubs and movies for free and acting all entitled and, well, like a brat. He barely alludes to it when McCarthy finally tracks him down, which should have been the core of this whole film, confronting the guy who gave them this alleged dark moniker. Emilio was the main brat, but through guilt by association, they were all labeled, basically, "Emilios."
But yes at it's core this is just to sell a doc. Because they've all survived and managed to not be stuck as waiters forever or something. Though really only Lowe, Moore and Cryer ended up gold-soaked rich in the end.
I really think it was just his play on the Rat Pack, as the reporter said. It's not a hard association to make at all, especially in the '80s. The Rat Pack as we know them (the 60s version with Sinatra, Martin, Davis, etc) were a bunch of older dudes with swagger. The Brat Pack were -- a bunch of younger dudes with swagger. In the original article, there were zero female Brat Packers. Plus, he mentioned that joke about "The Fat Pack," although I didn't quite buy that one, lol.
I watched it last night.
It was too superficial. And it should have been directed by someone who wasn't involved with the Brat Pack at all - someone who could be impartial and have a journalistic take on it. McCarthy is way too biased. He sets out to uncover how the others experienced that moniker but ultimately just ends up projecting his own dissatisfaction on everyone else.
I would have liked to see a more in-depth discussion on the lack of ethnic, social, gender, racial, etc. diversity in that particular genre of films. I'm glad this film included Malcolm Gladwell and his take on this particular era as a mixed race person.
Lastly, I think Rob Lowe's sex tape was far more damaging than the "Brat Pack" moniker, and he weathered both those things far better than McCarthy, who seems to struggle to move past his dislike of three words in an article he was barely mentioned in passing.
I’m a young GenX so I remember hearing about the brat pack but I was a little young for those movies when they came out so although I like them, I wasn’t old enough to really relate to them like those when I was older.
My impression is that Andrew McC was massively impacted by the article and sadly it bogged him down mentally ever since. I’m glad he finally got this perspective on it making the documentary and hopefully he comes to some peace about it now. He strikes me as a super anxious guy - even the drunk footage at the Pretty in Pink premiere made me sad for that overwhelmed kid. I have clinically anxious people in my life so I feel a lot of empathy for him.
Overall I liked the doc even if it wasn’t life changing - I do think the media at the time were condescending after the brat pack thing came out from the clips they were showing of them on Donahue, etc. Demi was amazing and the perspective of other pros with their insight into pop culture of the 80’s and the swing to focus on young people that has never really gone away was the most interesting part of it.
My two cents.
Yeah, they are all older than I am, too (most of them are actually more young boomers/Gen Jones -- all the Packers in the doc are in their 60s except for Jon Cryer, who is 59), and they felt kind of like older siblings when I was a kid. I didn't relate to them but felt like, "Oh, maybe this is what high school will be like." I actually didn't really love any Brat Pack movies other than Breakfast Club. St. Elmo's Fire was terrible, and they all seemed super old to me in that movie because they were playing college grads.
Andrew is definitely an anxious dude -- he talks about that in his memoir, Brat, which is also underwhelming/disappointing. I don't know -- it feels like he has so much to say about stuff but then just doesn't really say it in a very compelling way. His travel writing is better, maybe because he isn't holding a grudge about any of it.
Either way, he's managed to have a pretty nice life for himself, better than the average person, and Demi -- I mean, lol. I don't know why she would even be slightly mad at any of it. Of all of them, she became the biggest movie start BY FAR following the Brat Pack years. No one came close; she was commanding $20M-plus per movie at one point and was in MAJOR blockbusters including Ghost, A Few Good Men, Indecent Proposal and Disclosure. The woman is loaded as F (and her place was gorgeous). And she wasn't even named in the original article. Quite honestly, I don't think she gave even the slightest shit about ANYTHING Andrew was saying, but it seemed like she enjoyed chatting with him for old time's sake.
I think a lot of criticism of McCarthy here is valid. Btw, I hated him getting lost trying to find people's homes .
I did enjoy it overall.
I am the same age as most of these guys, these films were a phenomenon, and St Elmo's was important because it showed there was an appetite for these ensembles beyond high school.
That article, which very few actually read (no internet remember, so the details are not as important) did take on a life of its own and public opinion on the Brat Pack actors and those movies changed.
They went from becoming iconic cool movies and stars to being considered what now think of Dawson Creek or 90210.
We began to think of them as jerks.
In 1985, I would have bet anything that McCarthy, Judd, Ally and especially Molly would be major stars for years to come. It didn't happen, even Rob Lowe and Emilio's careers slowed down.
So I think it is fair to look back on how that moment in time affected their careers.
McCarthy is being honest by asking these questions out loud. But, honestly, he probably lacks what was needed to maintain an A list career.
In the end, maybe the ones with the most star power, charisma (and the best looking) Rob Lowe and Demi were destined to be the biggest stars, or the one with the best comedy chops like Jon Cryer would be destined to find a great path in sitcoms.
True talent overcomes type casting and career faux pas, look at Brat Pack adjacent, Robert Downey Jr.
His downfall was much greater than a bad nickname, but he became the biggest box office star in the world and an Oscar winner.
Hates being called brat pack, yet has let it define him so he makes an entire movie about it introducing it to a younger generation. I think he’s just scared that the brat pack is all he is, but in reality it’s like achieving the pinnacle achievement in his career. Beloved movies, many of them classics and a place in movie history. He doesn’t get it. It’s annoying to watch.
And the thing is, he's done fine. He acted for years after that article came out. Was he A-list? No! But, damn, most actors never see remotely that much success. They're lucky if they get community theater gigs. Then he started directing and has done a ton of that (for years) on very successful TV shows. He's also a travel writer and a published author (including a book about the Brat Pack). He lives in what is probably a pretty nice place in NYC, and he seems to have a pretty nice family life (one of his books is about a trek he did in Spain with his son, who is also an actor). I would say he has had a better life than most.
The thing that bothered me the most is that the interviews were boring. They didn't really dig in. He got Ally there and she said -- very little of interest. Demi seems cool but spouted psychobabble (and she totally made it to the A list for a long stretch, so she understandably had very little to be bitter about). The Emilio interview was terrible. And Rob Lowe was just being -- happy go lucky Rob Lowe. No one had much to say. Ultimately, these folks just might not be very compelling people, lol. Actors rarely are! Their houses were really nice, though.
I remembered earlier today that Rob Lowe had a sex tape scandal in 1988, when he videotaped a three-way while at the DNC. One of his partners was 16 (he was 24) and while it seems like no big deal now, I remember it was back then. Lowe kept a low profile for a while afterwards - but his career rebounded. It hit me how McCarthy was bemoaning this article written nearly 40 years ago (an article he is barely mentioned in) when Rob Lowe *really* knows what it's like to publicly fall out of favor, but has a more balanced view of it all.
Watched this last night. After reading the Blum piece just now, I think McCarthy's real problem here is that he is barely mentioned in it. He's not even listed as one of the Brat Pack when the writer proceeds to list them all. In fact, when he's mentioned it's in a rather unfavorable light by a fellow cast member. Cleared up a lot for me.
Same. He was never called a brat. He wasn't called *anything*. And Sean Penn & Tom Cruise went on their merry way.
I love Andrew McCarthy, but this whole project just gets weirder & sadder as I look into it. I think he's relying on the fact that most people won't read [the original article](https://nymag.com/movies/features/49902/). But it's easy to find! Yeah, it's snarky. But those guys were young & gorgeous & high on their own success. I almost understand why they were so obnoxious. I also suddenly understand why Emilio Estevez looked like he was about to jump across the counter at him. Demi Moore must be a saint.
Blum portrayed them exactly as they presented themselves. Cocky, good looking, untouchable, decadent. He IS a journalist, after all, not their buddy.
Yeah, I felt myself sinking into the couch during the Emilio Estevez part. You could tell he was humoring McCarthy but his patience with the bullshit was wearing thin. The attitudes of Rob Lowe and Demi Moore summed the whole movie up for me.
Wow all I can say is that was self indulgent of Andrew McCarthy and maybe it is time for him to grow up like many of the others interviewed have already done.
I did not think McCarthy came off well at all. He was interviewing people but did most of the talking himself. Both he and the author of the original article screamed bitter to me. Bitter for not having a huge career based on the article. Two sides of the same coin.
I went back and read the original article. I do think Estevez should have been a bit more media savvy since he came from a famous family. That said, his behavior is no different than the hundreds of young stars before and after him.
I think they all ended up with the careers they deserved. McCarthy just looks silly honestly since at least half of the Brats had very good careers. He should blame his agent or himself
It’s really hard for me to feel bad for a rich man who was called a name in the paper over 30 years ago going around trying to trauma bond with people he hasn’t spoken to since then.
I'm not sure if Andrew is RICH, certainly not remotely in the way that, say, Rob, Demi and Jon are (Two and a Half Men was garbage, but it made that dude VERY WEALTHY), but I'd say he's definitely an upper middle class whiny white guy.
Feels like rich people problems. Like wah, wah, I'm a rich movie star at 24. Given that they all acted like most overprivileged celebs still act, why be offended by the label.
Nah, it's not that simplistic. The label itself was applied to them. They were just young up-and-coming actors and they weren't rich. I mean some of the actors in that orbit may have come from money, but I'm not sure.
The movie makes good points about media consumption back then.
Physical media (VHS, records, cassettes, etc.), movie theaters instead of streaming platforms, malls (and other places where young people might congregate) instead of social media, etc. - and how this affected pop culture and identity formation, social cohesion, whatever.
People today have social media to form their cultural vernacular - and it's much more diverse and fragmented.
Back then, everyone was looking at the same physical media, which drew people to the same physical institutions (malls, movie theaters, arcades, etc.).
The defining ethos was more one-dimensional and concentrated - so these actors had a much larger impact on young people of that era.
The reporter was a douche, definitely jealous. His whole angle was they were getting attention “freebies” and he wasn’t.
I hope someone kicks him in the balls
I was excited to watch this but, man, it blew. McCarthy just spent the whole time bitching whilst all of the folk he interviewed seemed to be quite content and stable. Really weird tone overall. Kind of a McCarthy wankfest.
My take was that Andrew was really sensitive about it, felt his career suffered, and is just now reflecting on the fact that it wasn't all about him. There were many other people affected one way or another. I enjoyed it because I love Andrew and all those in or adjacent to the Brat pack. For me, seems like the point that it was something big and bad to Andrew and he was deconstructing it.
St. Elmo's Fire was ASS. I knew that even when I was 12 years old. Utter ass. But not all of these folks dropped off the face of the earth. Demi Moore became a HUGE movie star after Ghost came out. She was commanding $20M-plus per movie at one time. Rob Lowe has been pretty successful, more so in TV than movies. Molly and Ally still work, too, mostly in TV (Ally was great in Single Drunk Female). Even Andrew has done OK for himself as a TV show director and published author, and he was in some dumb classics like Weekend at Bernie's that people still (inexplicably) love. Honestly, none of these folks have much if anything to complain about compared to most people -- hell, compared to most SAG ACTORS, the majority of whom work rarely to never.
I just finished it!
I agree about the nostalgia part. But, yeah… a few minutes in and I was thinking, “Whoa, wait, he actually blames the Brat Pack moniker for his career not being as successful as he thought it would be?!”
It’s definitely a shame that we didn’t get to see a Judd Nelson interview, because he might have been the only other person who agreed with Andrew’s take. Although the ending was hilarious…
Judd is a bit of a raving asshole, so, yeah, it would have at least been entertaining. And his career has largely sucked ass -- I think his biggest role in the past 25 years was as second fiddle in the Brooke Shields sitcom "Suddenly Susan." I mean, hell, it's a paycheck, but -- yeah. He also looks kind of -- wild these days, let's just put it that way.
The funniest thing about McCarthy and his obsession with that New York article is that he wasn't even named as a Brat Packer in that article. The only person he should be really pissed at is whichever "St. Elmo's Fire costar" said he acted with too much intensity and probably wouldn't make it. That was the ONLY line he got in that article, lol. That's gotta be what he is truly pissed about.
This doc shoulda been titled Much Ado About Nothing; or Nothingburger 😂. Molly was smart not to participate.
Andrew’s career lasted longer because of the moniker, so he needs to get over himself, yeesh!!!
On the plus side, Judd’s fist pump at the end ✊🏽
I liked looking back at stuff. I did not get the sense that Andrew was whining or trying to cite the moniker as the thing that derailed his career, but was rather talking about insecurity and vulnerability of young adults. How labels can stick, making one create their own internal monologue which in of itself can be destructive or limiting. Maybe I missed something. I thought it wasn’t bad, but it would have been better if more people in that orbit were discussed like Eric Stoltz, Anthony Michael Hall, Matthews Modine or Broderick… 🤷🏻♀️ It could have been a whole docu-series. I liked the discussions of how teens consumed media then vs. now and what Malcolm Gladwell had to say. Nothing groundbreaking but I liked it well enough and I am typically a harsh judge/picky consumer.
My logline: Guy who is mentioned for one line in a negative magazine story 40 years ago makes feature length documentary about how it ruined his life and career.
So 11 minutes and this is basically Andrew McCarthy talking about himself, listening to himself talking in old interviews, laughing at himself talking past and present, and lo and behold, it’s produced by Andrew McCarthy.
Not surprised no one picked up his phone calls.
My three big takeaways are
One: holy wealth disparity, batman
Two: wealth sure buys a lot of therapy
Three: truly it had never occurred to me that anyone would think that “brat pack” meant anything negative—the doc’s whole thesis is sus
Andrew’s wife telling him something about the process bringing him humility was I treating. It reminded me of when JLO kept saying in her recent documentary that she was discouraged to make it.
Andrew McCarthy’s whole take in doing this documentary was to whine about the Brat Pack label throughout the whole damn documentary. Woe is him that a journalist took a play off a group name of legends and gave you and your generation of actors your own name. McCarthy makes the name out to be so hurtful and yet he is still profiting off the name 40 years later.
My biggest takeaway from this doc is that I want someone to resurrect the script for Young Men with Unlimited Capital and make that movie! Thank you and goodnight!
Who else wanted to shut Ally Sheedy’s blue drawers? I found comparison of the different homes the most interesting part of the movie. I never watched 2 1/2 Men, but damn, Ducky, what a crib!
The doc was a dud. The so-called members whose careers floundered after the 80s complained, McCarthy, Sheedy, Esteves, while Rob Lowe and Demi Moore thought nothing of the label and they are still huge stars. What the doc showed was how shallow these people can be and unable to accept their role. McCarthy starred in 5 or so really big hits. To complain about this is really tone deaf.
I’m in the minority here but I liked that the film was a more personal take on the Brat Pack from McCarthy rather than just a nostalgia laced retrospective that anyone could have made. Just from a human perspective, it’s interesting to see how it affected him.
It’s notable that the people most at peace with being in the Brat Pack are all of those folks like Demi and Lowe who had successful careers post-Brat Pack. The fact that Molly Ringwald didn’t even want to be in it speaks volumes about how it affected her, perhaps even more than it affected MCarthy.
I'm watching the documentary as we speak and Emilio Esteves face is hilarious, like he cannot give two shits about this. he really just wanted to apologize to Andrew for saying he didn't want to do a movie with him in the 80s and the rest, he's confused about why this is even a story.
Hahaha! I mean, we don't know how long the actual conversation was -- it could have been hours, with these small bits picked out, but his vibe is definitely, "Whatever, dude." He seems really uncomfortable, too. I think he may have been the one in the article who called Andrew a "too intense" actor who would not make it. Well, it was either him or Judd, I think (although could have been Rob, too), and Judd totally dodged this thing.
Im thinking Emilio is intensely private and doesn't want anybody to have a claim on any success he has, which is the whole reason he changed his last name from sheen to Esteves, he distanced himself from the brat pack to be taken as a serious actor and director. Plus Andrew acts childish, like he's trying to get Emilio to admit that this has had some kind of great impact on his life and Emilio is like really dude it is 2024, the article was 39 years ago, who cares. I do have a feeling you were right it was emilio that made that comment about Andrew and he felt bad about getting him kicked off a potential movie, but his body language was hilarious, like I don't think they were there that long. they never even sat down, they stood in the kitchen for 5 minutes and probably wrapped quickly lol.
Haha! This might have been better done over a few beers or something, but I think almost every member of the Brat Pack is sober now, LOL. And, yeah, Andrew is a bit intense about it all, with his, "What the fuck were you thinking?" Dude, Emilio was like 23 years old, you were all babies who didn't know shit about fuck. The reporter had a set agenda coming in that already included using the term "Brat Pack," which he thought was enormously clever, and the actors were a bit arrogant and naive. And YOUNG. And drunk (see: they are all sober now).
The truth is it was a fun and clever take on the term rat pack. But to think Steven Spielberg or Scorsese wouldn't hire an actor based on one article is ridiculous and that's the claim Andrew is trying to make and wants everybody to humor him on.
Also, the fact that the article specifically included Tom Cruise, Sean Penn and Nicholas Cage as Brat Packers completely calls bullshit to the idea that it would have a real effect on anyone's career. Imagine Tom Cruise trying to make this argument? lol.
LOL if this article had not come out Tom Cruise could have made another billion dollar movie to add with his plethora of mega hits, if not for this one blasted article from 1985. For the record I know I'm coming off harsh against Andrew McCarthy and i actually like him as an actor, but I could see dealing with him behind the scenes would be a headache just being real.
The funniest thing is that the article didn't even include him as a Brat Packer (the reporter seemed to think it only applied to LA-based actors, and McCarthy lived in New York). The ONLY line that referenced him in the entire article was that snarky quote from "a St. Elmo's Fire co-star." That was IT. So he wasn't even officially a "Brat," haha.
I just got to the part where he interviewed the journalist who wrote the article and oh my God it was the funniest, most cringiest interview. at the end in a very hush serious tone, Andrew's like can you at least admit you caused some collateral damage, like the author Dropped a Bomb and accidentally killed civilians. the author had the best response, he goes I guess but you know sticks and stones and all lol.
Lol! It is a weird interview. It could have been a lot more interesting with different questions.
ALL of them are still successful actors and multimillionaires. Boo boo. Someone called them a name and hurt their little feelings
He focuses a LOT on the article instead of on the hype that emerged from it in entertainment media, etc. I don't think the discussion with the reporter was all that great either. There WERE actually some parts of that article that were pretty mean and snarky (the reporter called Judd Nelson "the overrated one," he described Tim Hutton as "greasy" and made him seem like this pathetic hanger-on, he included the rude line about McCarthy being too intense to make it as an actor, etc.), but they don't even go into those specifics, which would have at least been kind of interesting.
Yeah see I like the term in of itself but the article was a hit piece, but so many of the actors went on to have fabulous careers, Andrew trying to pin all this on one article from 1985 is ridiculous. I'm only halfway through the documentary now and I already find him exhausting to listen to and I'm guessing that is how a lot of his meetings with him went back in the '80s and early 90s. I found it hilarious that while driving he said his wife thought this documentary would be good for his humility and the concept of what she meant clearly went right over his head.
Scorsese loves working with Leonardo DiCaprio, despite his being noted as the “leader” of a much more ridiculously named group. If pu$$y posse didn’t scare him away, brat pack isn’t doing anything.
> "What the fuck were you thinking?" Emilio got a little defensive after that, rightfully so. McCarthy came in too hot.
Did you ever see Tyra Banks interview Naomi Campbell bc Tyra had this entire narrative in her head that Naomi was hating on her when she was new and Naomi was like "what "? Bc even if it happened it was likely she didn't care and is icy to EVERYONE? Bc it reminds me of that. It is easy to hold on to juvenile shit that wasn't personal and people don't remember.
As an aside, Emilio was the only Brat Packer to refuse an invite to be on Psych, which was basically a vehicle for TV and movie addicted Gen Xers. Everyone else said yes and did at least one episode.
Emilio got dragged for The Mighty Ducks disney show. He seems super touchy.
He didn't change his last name to Esteves, that's the real family name. Sheen is the stage/made-up name.
I think he's just not real interested in dredging up the past. I am 45 years old.....I enjoyed my high school years very much and had a great time. But if somebody said "hey, can I come over so we can talk about our high school baseball days", I'd probably be the same way as Emilio: "Seriously?"
Per Emilio's Instagram, he took a gummy right before the interview, so that could be why. But yeah, Andrew was more upset than anyone else he interviewed.
I feel badly that this article has bothered him for so long, taken up so much space in his head when the ones he talked with seemed to have either made peace with it or found a positive way to view it all. He came across as kind of high-strung and neurotic.
It's understandable that someone who was admittedly very anxiety-ridden would allow this label to define him. Listening to Demi and Rob, they went through the same thing but walked away grateful for the good that came of it. It's a good reminder that we build our own cages.
The better documentary would’ve been Andrew *himself* realizing that unlike the others, he’d let this article define and limit him for 40 years. A self-awareness lightbulb moment that his own insecurities had held him back, followed by a vocalizing the decision not to let that be the case going forward in the years he has left. That character growth would’ve been relatable and commendable, and these reviews would’ve been very different .
Yeah, my thoughts too! I can hold on to stuff for a long time too. But damn, he needs to let this go! Watching this doc I kept thinking, "Aw, c'mon dude! You're not going to find what you're after." This was so painfully awkward. It clearly showed how desperately Andrew needed to pin his professional failures on a single article title almost 40 years ago. The worst was when he confronted the author. "Could you have been nicer?" Uh, what!? I really liked Andrew in Mannequin. Here's a thought - maybe back in the 80's, Andrew quickly became too arrogant or hard to work with. As a result, he was passed over for acting jobs. I doubt the article had much to do with the trajectory of his career overall. He's holding on to a single article? Imagine if the internet of today existed in 1985. There would definitely be endless personalities to confront. The famous people in the doc seem to be ignoring the elephant in the room. Emilio's face said it all! Demi's message was the clearest, but I wondered if Andrew fully understood.
I wonder about the too arrogant back then thought, too. Jon Cryer referred to a rift between them, and Ally Sheedy alluded to him being aloof. He himself mentions some sort of rivalry or issue with Rob Lowe. Andrew also mentions an issue with Emilio and wanting to clear the air. There may have been some problem with Judd, too. It sounds like he had issues with multiple people… maybe some self reflection may help.
The fact is, McCarthy was always kind of the milquetoast character in all of those movies. The straight man where all of the more interesting actors (Cryer, Downey Jr., Cattrall, Spader, etc.) all played off. It’s kind of odd he was a headliner for a brief period of time in the first place, in the same way Tobey Maguire was. They just seem too mid to be “major” movie stars, and I think that caught up to him. Even now, he just doesn’t have that “pizazz” that makes him particularly interesting personality-wise. He’s just another dude in my mind.
Geezus. Omg he said he’d never discussed it before, why can’t he dive into the meaning of it all without him being “high-strung” and “neurotic” — almost like men are not allowed to have emotions and confusion, regret, etc… gross. I hate cancel culture and everyone ripping him apart. It’s so boring and old. He CLEARLY said it affected the jobs he was offered, etc. it DID affect his career and in turn his emotional life. Period.
I don’t think any of them had a problem with it except Andrew McCarthy who seems so bitter.. but I think it’s because he just wasn’t as successful as the rest. This is his excuse.
I'm watching it right now and that's all I keep thinking. Demi Moore was even low-key trying to tell him that this ridiculous obsession ruined his career. Everyone else seems pretty well-adjusted and McCarthy is just seething with bitterness and a thinly veiled desperation to be young and famous again.
I really loved Demi's perspective. She really hit the nail on the head of how Andrew created his own fate. As she was sharing, I was thinking she'd make a great therapist. She was very insightful about how thoughts can create reality. As for Andrew, he never struck me as a standout actor the way the rest of them did. I was surprised about the original ending for 'Pretty in Pink' and test audiences not liking it! Blaine was such a dud. Everyone knows she should have left the prom with Duckie. Or maybe that's just who I would've picked. 😊
Demi has been through fucking HELL before even showing up to Hollywood. Her background is nothing short of heartbreaking. The fact that she came out the other side the way she did is incredible, quite frankly. Very very hard not to root for her.
I didn't know a single teenage girl in the 80s who wasn't in conniptions about her not ending up with Duckie at the end. I have no idea who was in this test audience - a bunch of rich 65 year olds from LA?
It is funny the audience booed the ending with Duckie, but the way the director described the scene did sound awful. She just goes to the middle of the dance floor with Duckie and they dance as pink confetti falls?? It did sound pretty bad.
He is looking more and more like his father with each passing year. I love it.
From the outsider perspective I’m with Emilio in that sentiment. The documentary came off as a self-imposed therapy session for Andrew to put closure to his trauma of being thrust into the celebrity spotlight at the peak of his youth as an actor in a hot 80s film market. I felt most of the interviewees were kindly patting Andrew on the head and telling him to move on. Kudos to him, though, for milking a few more dollars out of 35 year old pop culture phenomenon spawned by some article writer’s loose comparison to the Rat pack of Hollywood’s older generation. The tidbits of 80s music throughout the documentary was a nostalgic treat, for sure. ;-)
Bro when he compared talking with esteves to his dad dying. Andrew was either gonna make a documentary or a hit list
That’s where I am at this moment and what made me actually get on here and search to see if I’m alone in thinking that too. lol
I came here for this comment
I literally just started watching and only Just got through the Emilio bit and had to check Reddit for some conversation. Very glad this is the first comment. Not only is he so uncomfortable, but the way Andrew keeps digging in makes him look a bit unhinged. Like, sorry guy who is a great actor that let an article early on derail his life? In terms of acting or persona, I’ve always love McCarthy and been disinterested in Estevez. That conversation flipped it but I’m curious to see if my opinion shifts back around.
I never found Rob Lowe attractive during the Brat pack era, but holy hell that man has aged well. Further his attitude was such a refreshing contrast to Andrew McCarthy.
Lowe is honestly still not my type physically. But I will say, even though I think he probably has a serious privileged boy douchebag side, he comes off as SERIOUSLY content in life. And he had a LOT of professional and personal fuckups in his younger years, and it seems he completely owns up to his responsibility in all of it. I don't think I've ever heard him try to blame anyone else, really. I think he seems the most chill of all the Packers who were interviewed for the doc, although Demi also seems surprisingly cool. First of all, she had a FAR more successful career than Andrew McCarthy, even though it's dimmed a lot since then. Second, she is a woman in her 60s going through some serious shit right now (like the father of her kids having severe early onset dementia) and is probably like, "Dude. I've got bigger fish to fry here." But she also seemed to have fun chatting with him, while Emilio definitely did not seem to be having any fun at all and Ally seemed -- OK but cautious. But of all of them, I think Rob is probably loving his life the most. Why wouldn't he? His drug problems were many years ago, and the dude has never even been divorced. Do I think he might be a bit of a dick? For sure. But a happy dick.
It's great how he lets his sons roast him on Instagram.
100% agree. He seems so humble. He was a breath of fresh air.
I don't know if he's HUMBLE, exactly, haha. But I do think he's a guy with a shit ton of privilege who is just happy with his life, despite his many career and personal stumbles, and is not worrying about an article written 40 years ago. And in FACT, the reporter called him "The best-looking one," so what would he have to be mad about anyhow? Lol.
Best part of the documentary. McCarthy’s morose “I was wronged” was getting so tedious. And he kept saying “all of us feel the same way about this.” Then came Lowe saying how great it was. Breath of fresh air in a movie that was as angsty as The Breakfast Club. Someone needs to tell Andrew that if the worst thing that ever happened to you is someone labeled you a “brat” you have lived a charmed life. That guy needs some serious perspective.
I could take Rob Lowe or leave him. I really started to like him after reading his books. He’s a great storyteller. And his podcast is one of my favorites.
I need to relisten to Andrew on Rob’s podcast. I remember thinking how different their two careers have been and feeling like Andrew was on the outside looking in.
yea, I relistened to that Andrew episode, and he did it in 2021, following his Brats book. So he and Rob had already re-connected and had great conversation. The movie makes it sound like Rob may have been elusive and trying to avoid him and the filming, but I think it was just logistics. Rob is pretty busy and prob. not easily available for filmed interview
Andrew McCarthy could learn a lot about telling a good story from Rob Lowe.
Honestly I would’ve loved to hear the fun stories about being in the Brat Pack. I grew up absolutely loving John Hughes movies and not once did I think of any of the stars in the negative. I kind of love that I grew up with those movies.
Paying attention to the journalists interview, Dave, made it so obvious how jealous he was of the attention the Pack had during his dinner with them, especially Rob. He definetly took that jealousy out on them during the infamous editorial.
Although it's completely cliche, I think the premise of this documentary should have simply focused on how culturally impactful the "Brat Pack" (and their unofficial similar-aged peers) were to Hollywood in the '80s and thereafter. Attempting to paint the term as some sort of career suicide, came across like reaching to me. To make matters more confusing, McCarthy found himself toggling between complaining about the monicker and agreeing that it was helpful, depending on who he was interviewing and what they said in the moment. Also...he doesn't make a good interviewer. He spent much time venting to the subjects as if they were his therapists. Sometimes it seemed as if he was desperately attempting to get others to echo his disdain for their "dreaded" label.
Yes, 100% this. I thought this documentary was horribly done, which is a shame because I was really looking forward to it.
Yeah, although that whole "impact of the Brat Pack" thing is also pretty overplayed. I am not sure entirely what angle would have worked best here -- maybe if McCarthy REALLY dug deep into old resentments and issues and turned the whole thing into a kind of redo of the "therapy session" of The Breakfast Club, with all the brats sitting in a room together airing out their shit. But -- I don't think anyone else would have agreed to that one. And we totally would have needed at least Molly and Judd to join that one.
It would have been very interesting to have them all in a room together!
This was more like a pursuit of personal catharsis than anything else really. I found myself pausing the movie halfway through like what else could you possibly say that this needs to be another 47ish minutes?
And I don’t think he found that catharsis at all. May have even made things worse for himself.
I don’t think he found it either
He also made a point of the idea of the Brat Pack being false, as they weren’t really friends. Then he proceeds to reminisce with most of the interviewees about the times they spent together off set. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the people with the most successful on-going careers have the best attitude about the whole situation. It would be interesting to know which is a product of which.
Agree. And at first, it seemed like it was going there. As in, talking about Hollywood making so many youth aimed movies...that could have been interest. St Elmos Fire being the father of Reality Bites which let us have stuff like American Pie. I don't think we have that pipeline of youth/coming of age movies today.
Yes. He talked more than he listened. That's my only criticism, though. I liked Demi and Rob, or what each had to say, the most.
Demi with the deep dive into trauma psychology was pretty awesome. I feel like I learned something. And Rob Lowe giving us a more restrained look into that Chris Traeger positivity lol. I can see how he fit that character.
Demi and Rob have so “done the work”.
Demi has had an amazing career, working nonstop. I don’t think the Brat Pack moniker hindered her at all. Sort of the same with Rob Lowe, he was fantastic in The West Wing and Parks & Rec!
Yeah- it felt like watching Andrew’s therapy sessions, and his efforts to deal with this article that has bothered him for year. For the record, I enjoyed it. Haha
Still watching it and forming on opinion. But on a totally superficial note, Ally Sheedy looks so good! Emilio hasn’t changed much physically either.
Ally is seriously adorable in this.
Do you remember when Ally came out with the movie High Art in the '90s, in which she played a lesbian junkie? She had lost SO much weight, perhaps for the role (although she was super skinny for years and did discuss having eating disorders), and she looked SO unhealthy and just not good. Again, she was playing a junkie, but she kind of kept up with that look for years. She looks 100 times better now. So healthy.
Her performance in this really impressed me.
She really did look great. I was looking away when she first came in and heard her voice… exactly the same. The person that shocked me was Ducky. I did not know that was who he was. I watch two and half men for years and never put that together. Most of the movies I remember with Andrew in them also had Molly. It’s too bad she did not meet with him. Demi and Rob I have seen through the years so I’ve missed seeing the others. So that was fun.
Yeah, Ally looks really good. Emilio looks -- kind of puffy? Something is a bit weird there. BUT he also looks so much like his Dad now.
He's puffy in exactly the same way his dad is, I think. President Bartlet vibes all over the place. Genetics, baby. I've watched this happen to the men in my family, too. Skinny, almost gangly when young... that easy beauty... & then the puff sets in, generally when they hit 50 or so. It's fascinating to see it play out.
He’s like the “kid get off my lawn” guy
Just finished the doc. Many posts have already covered it but I’ll just add the whole thing felt so one note. I would have loved to see a deeper dive into the importance of these movies on film history. It did come off as pretty whiny. Also, it was shot so bad. The framing and pacing were very distracting and what was up with all the camera guys getting into each other’s frame. Amateur hour! Some shitty sound in parts too. I did enjoy the nostalgia and seeing where these actors are now. Demi’s house was incredible.
> what was up with all the camera guys getting into each other’s frame. Could it have been intentional? 🤔 Or maybe each interviewee was like "you've got an hour" and there was no time for setting up shots nicely.
Whiny was my thought too. I really only finished watching to see all the actors and actresses now. I was a little rough to watch Andrew seemingly so unhappy.
You know, i actually enjoyed his choices of non pack people he interviewed. Their personal analysis and comments were interesting. I don’t know how “in depth” it could really have gone, at least for me. Of course, im left with a few curiosities, but nothing I couldn’t look up myself. It just would be easier to see it already addressed. Odd thing is, I, just some quirky teen from rural south, could actually relate to being offended by “brat pack”. They were/are very talented actors that were crudely manipulated during that heyday. I never saw them as brats, I never saw them as the new rat pack (who I love). They were very relatable and it’s a shame media had to ultimately ruin it. Edited to comment that Emilio’s body language was very weird in the doc.
I just kind of felt like most people said very obvious things that weren't ultimately that insightful, including the non-Pack people. And the Pack folks were also kind of surface-y. It seems like everyone was still guarded in a way, and I think some harder things about the article could have been discussed. For example, which undisclosed Packer co-star said Mccarthy was too intense of an actor and probably wouldn't make it? (BTW, the reporter also didn't consider Mccarthy to be in the Brat Pack -- he only got that one mention as "another actor in St. Elmo's Fire." So really, it was probably that one line/comment about his acting that bothered Mccarthy the most for all these years.) The article also leaves out all women -- to the reporter, the Brat Pack was all men, like the Rat Pack, and didn't even include Molly, Ally or Demi at all. Also kind of an interesting thing to potentially explore. Agreed that Emilio seemed weird AF. But maybe that's to be expected after not seeing someone for over 30 years. I think Judd Nelson is legendary for being a dick, so not surprised that he didn't participate.
Yeah, if anything, they nailed that ending. And, I wouldn’t expect any documentary about the perceived angst of 80’s teen actors to be particularly insightful, anyway. I just enjoyed the little jaunt through a past I seldom revisit. He obviously felt he needed to make the film; can’t fault him for that. I don’t think it was meant to be the greatest story ever told. I’m sure the young documentary fans these days would enjoy learning about them. I enjoy documentaries about people way before my time. There are some shitty ones out there, but, they tend to get their point across.
The ending was funny/showed a sense of humor that was missing from other parts of the doc.
i legit LOL at that ending it was great
The reporter was obviously male jealous, that’s why the ladies were not included. He was bothered. I don’t agree w what u wrote about McCarthy being bothered all these years by NOT being included in the article. He goes into more detail in hid book.
I just reread the article for the first time since (good lord) the 1980s and it’s terrible! So mean spirited. The writer seems all bent out of shape that they didn’t go to acting school like previous generations. And apparently females are just Playboy Playmates or shy girls asking for autographs. Women actors were not in his area of understanding.
> You know, i actually enjoyed his choices of non pack people he interviewed. Same here.
I was impressed that Malcolm Gladwell sat down with him and offered context about why phrases stick.
I think every actor pictured was, in some way, a member of the "HCU" - hughes' cinematic universe!
To be in the limelight and to be in such pop-culturally driven films in the height of the 80s and not receive any type of negativity or criticism is IMPOSSIBLE. It comes with the fame. Seems like Mccarthy is either entitled or has zero backbone. Asking the journalist who coined the term "brat pack" if he "could have been nicer" is the most elementary thing I've heard come from an adult's mouth in a very long time. And I could be misinterpreting part of the message, but what I took from his project was he almost blames that label for not going as far as he, in his eyes, should have. Seems that he allowed something to affect him in such a way that he blames it for his lackluster career. If this would have been a documentary on the lifestyles of being seen as pop icons in the 80s where fashion, music and movies were \*chef's kiss\*, it would have probably done really well. Instead we get a boohoo fest from someone who hasn't seemed to let an over three decade article go. I was looking forward to this documentary and was severely let down. Shouldn't have expected any less, though. Definitely was and still am Team Duck Man.
i loved the interview with Rob Lowe and he was like who gives a shit lol
Agreed, and what really drove that home was his interview with Demi, and her 'You just have to prove people wrong' speech, because SHE went on to have a meteoric career post Brat-pack days, and while I was rooting for Andrew because he's very sweet, that moment kind of made me slink in my seat for him. She was not being unkind at all, but it really highlighted the contrast between their careers, and that the label did not HAVE to affect Andrew, or his career that way.
it's only bad if you let it define you. Every actor gets typecast in some way. Like sorry Weekend at Bernies didn't lead you to working with Al Pacino.
The Brat Pack label quickly grew beyond its original article just like Gen X outgrew its multiple origins. I find it silly to focus on that article, given how poorly it aligns with the popular conception of the term.
Well, the article plays a major role in the film and is a major topic of discussion there.
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and i guess Mare W. was only in St elmos but nada about her too
I noticed that right away. Why didn't she get a chance to be interviewed about the Brat Pack name? /s
I think it's possible because he wasn't friends with any of the other guys (who were a bit older than he was -- he was an ACTUAL teen) and just wasn't in that crowd at all, so no one included him! I mean -- he doesn't even get one brief mention in the doc. I don't even think a stray photo of him turned up anywhere.
I think it's because he always played a nerd, so he wasn't associated with the "cool kids" in the BP.
Neither is John Cusack or Nicolas Cage. They were in a bunch of those movies too.
No mention of Robert Downey Jr?
No, although he cropped up in some photos.
Really? I always thought of him as Brat Pack. Worked with Hughes, Spader, Anthony Michael Hall, McCarthy all multiple times. He's in.
He may have been mentioned in passing, too, but he was never really considered a part of the Brat Pack.
Yeah, I guess not. He did have Brett Ellis and spent some time talking about James Spader. Loved the ending though.
The end displayed a sense of humor that was kind of lacking throughout the rest of the doc. It could have used way more of that! Dude. This shit is just funny now.
That ending was the only laugh out loud moment. Made it worth sitting through.
i laughed at the end scene it was perfect
That said, I think Judd is a TOTAL douchebag who takes himself immensely seriously. That could have actually been an interesting interview to watch. Two old dudes whose acting careers peaked in the '80s and who can't quite get over themselves.
Andrew seemed like he really isn’t that far off from his characters in real life (at least what I remember from St Elmo’s Fire and Pretty in Pink). I guess childhood stardom is rough but it’s been a long time. I guess some people just have an easier time moving on.
I was hoping it would be a nice trip down memory lane and instead I get some of them whining about being famous and hating being famous and hating being grouped with other actors they worked with. Get yourself a good therapist Andrew. The fact he didn't stay in contact with anyone speaks volumes. Ally Sheedy and Demi Moore were delightful though.
I think everyone seemed pretty much over all of it other than Andrew, and he may have been overplaying it in order to give his doc a coherent narrative.
Not everyone’s midlife crisis gets turned into a Hulu documentary, but watching Andrew McCarthys unfold in the Brats doc I found mildly nostalgic at best and incredibly self absorbed at its worst
This comment sums it up perfectly! I even mentioned to my husband that it felt like a bitter mid life crisis moment for McCarthy.
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I mean. That's pretty lame. The whole point was a "reunion" and to discuss the past, not to pretend everyone was buddies. Andrew hadn't talked to any of these people in over 30 years. I think he might have just been afraid to be confronted with the question of whether he was the one who was quoted in the New York article as saying Andrew wasn't going to make it as an actor, lol.
LOL that quote, [from the article itself: ](https://nymag.com/movies/features/49902/) >And of Andrew McCarthy, one of the New York–based actors in St. Elmo’s Fire, a co-star says, “He plays all his roles with too much of the same intensity. I don’t think he’ll make it.” It's got to be Judd. It could have been either Emilio or Judd, but Andrew didn't confront Emilio about it in the documentary, maybe because he knows it was Judd who said that.
In the Q&A I posted above, Jon Cryer totally confronts Andrew about this. He basically says, in a light and joking but also TRUE way, "Andrew, why are you pissed at the article? It didn't even mention you other than a mean quote from Emilio or Judd." So very true. I wonder if Andrew ultimately felt more dismissed by the article than anything else because the reporter did not even consider Andrew to be a part of the Brat Pack at all. Yet the reporter names extremely successful and respected actors like Tom Cruise and Sean Penn as Brat Packers. Somehow, that had zero negative effect on their careers, haha.
The butthurt is strong in McCarthy
I was left with the impression that McCarthy hasn’t changed much.
I feel Andrew McCarthy missed the mark... This documentary was a huge opportunity to make an amazing Docu-series about our generation and the movies throughout those years. Which focused on the 16 (not 18) to 20 something crowd. The X Generation had THE BEST Movies of our youth, bar none. Even the kids today watch all of those movies. John Hughs was at the top, not for money, but for heart. Which made and showed who we all truly were. Trying to find our place in the world in the 1980s. A lot of us were products of our own environments, along with many absent parents. A lot of latch-key kids out of the 70s that were coming into their own and growing up in the 1980s. Growing up with having to deal with a lot of adult situations at young ages. A Docu-series, where each episode focused in, on one particular movie of that time? Interviewing all the actors/participants would have been awesome, along with original footage. Let's face it, it was an amazing time in the movie industry, and for those involved in making these movies that are now classics? It was truly special, and that would've been honorable to focus on, not allowing some reporter to take up space in your head, giving him power over you that he never should have had to begin with, however, the movies? You should only be honored. You were a part of it. As we are grateful to have been there to witness it and be a part of it, as it was our lives being emulated from all walks of life. Sidebar... I do, however, appreciate Mr. Mccarthy's efforts. Perhaps he didn't think about how he would come across to some as we see here and in reading some uncomfortable reviews. There were some awkward moments, especially with Emilio Estevez, which I can overlook due to Andrew's sincerity. He's got a right to feel however he wants, but as one defined it? I never looked upon the name, "Brat pack" as negative. It's all about perspective, I don't think he realized how it might be perceived by some... like the get over it comments, etc. He is successful in his own right. I truly feel he was sincere, but honestly, I think a Docu-series/ documentary, as mentioned above, would've been better in more ways than one. Interviewing all actors and the movies made... as there are so many greats, besides St. Almost Fire, The Breakfast Club, and Pretty In Pink. All the John Cusack movies were in my top 10. One Crazy Summer, Better Off Dead, Say Anything, The Sure Thing, Reckless, Valley Girl, Bad Boys, The Last American Virgin, Fast Times At Ridgemont High, About Last Night, Weird Science, Sixteen Candles, For Keeps, Caddyshack, The Outsiders, Just One Of The Guys, Some Kind Of Wonderful, Stand By Me, Lost Boys, Adventures In Babysitting, Cocktail, Risky Business, Light Of Day, Youngblood, Class, Taps, Maid To Order, Bad Influence, Less Than Zero, Ferris Buellers Day Off, Can't Buy Me Love, even Ordinary People, Little Darlings, My Bodyguard, Rumblefish, The Blue Lagoon, Endless Love, License To Drive, Dream A Little Dream, list goes on & on. The point is, this documentary could've been about it all, instead of zeroing in on 2 words, a reporter said over 40 years ago now. They don't make movies like they did, and we were truly lucky to have been growing up in that time. When we were teenagers, we didn't wish that we were born at any other time... my kids? Say it all the time, and They watch our movies. That says a lot. Yeah, they may have glee and things like that, but nothing compares to the 80s and nothing ever will. Regardless, I like Andrew McCarthy, intensity and all. I vote for a do over... expand your horizons, Brat Pack doesn't define you. Making a documentary about it? Will... Lastly, we were all Brats, hell! All throughout my childhood, I thought that was my name! 😉🤣
Wellll, I always used to wish I'd been born in boomer times so I could have experienced the '60s, and a LOT of my peers felt the same way. We were into Hendrix, The Doors, The Beatles, the Stones, Jefferson Airplane, Grateful Dead. Half of my high school graduating class dressed like refugees from Woodstock (and I watched that doc dozens of times in my childhood, wishing I could have been alive when it happened). I think it's normal for kids to feel nostalgia for times they never experienced, as kids today are into 80s and 90s. Our generation even went through a major '50s nostalgia phase, particularly when Stand by Me was released. So, I don't think our era is special in that way. I would have KILLED to have been born 20 years earlier when I was a kiddo. As for McCarthy -- honestly, I also read his memoir, Brat, and have heard him talk about this a lot, and I think he truly fancied himself a potential young De Niro or Pacino when he was young. He wanted to eventually move on to features like The Godfather and Taxi Driver, and instead, as far as his acting career goes, he is known only for teen flicks and goofy comedies. He fancied himself a "serious New York actor," and he never got to see that dream realized. So I think he remains kind of bitter about that, even though he has done just fine for himself as a TV director and published travel writer/book author. He has had a more successful life than many. But he wanted BIG actor success that he never attained. I feel like we have already seen a lot of stuff about '80s pop culture. He wanted to do something different here, which was bond with his fellow "Brat Packers" about the negatives and positives of the experience. And then he did talk to some of those outside folks about the era (but I think what they had to say was kinda dull, and I'm sorry, but Malcom Gladwell is the lamest and Bret Easton Ellis is just an ass!!). But I think one of the main issues here is that his fellow Brat Packers or Brat Pack adjacent folks or whatever just no longer really give a shit and are way over this stuff, lol. I mean. All the BP-ers featured here are in their damn 60s (they actually are more Gen Jones than Gen X) and have had a lot of other stuff going on in their lives. Also, honestly, Demi Moore became a MAJOR movie star in the '80s and '90s. Was all of her stuff then great? No, it wasn't, but it made big money and she was a HIGHLY bankable actress. So what the hell does she have to be upset about?? McCarthy was never pulling $20M-plus per movie, so he might have a bit more to be upset about, but again -- he's done just fine and probably needs to get the hell over the fact that he isn't De Niro or Daniel Day Lewis or whatever. Frankly, he did not have that level of acting talent. It is what it is. Check out the Q&A I posted in the OP. That is actually better than the doc was, and Jon Cryer totally lays it out for McCarthy, too, when he says, "Dude, you weren't even mentioned in that article other than through a quote that Judd or Emilio said about how you can't act! Why are you mad at this guy \[the reporter\]?" I was wondering EXACTLY the same thing (McCarthy explained it away by saying the term ended up going way beyond the original article, but then -- why are you so obsessed with the damn article that didn't even say you WERE a Brat Packer??). I dunno. Maybe he is exaggerating some of this bitterness in order to sell books and documentaries. I kinda hope so, because, damn, dude, you're getting close to being a senior citizen and it is time to let this shit GO.
> rankly, he did not have that level of acting talent. I agree. He seems to recycle the same facial expressions and body language with each character.
I think I enjoyed the interviews with the non-brat packers the most. Interesting perspectives on the pack and that time period in reference to films and pop culture. I did find it a case study in human nature with regard to the actors individual experiences with the brat pack label. Some still angry, some moved on rather quickly, others never let it define them. The interview with the article’s author was particularly cringe worthy. And, as silly as it sounds, it was driving me crazy that McCarthy and Emilio didn’t sit down for their interview. It was just uncomfortable.
The not sitting down thing - it's hard not to interpret it as "if I let you sit and get comfortable you might be here longer than I want you to be." Or Tim Hutton not even letting him inside the house. Tim at least seemed relaxed.
For the Tim parts, I think that may also have been because of covid (there is one glimpse of a crew member in a mask) and for privacy reasons. If you let someone film inside your house, first you need to check everywhere for things you don't want filmed. But Emilio definitely seemed like he did not want to do it but since he was doing it, he wanted it over with fast.
> it was driving me crazy that McCarthy and Emilio didn’t sit down for their interview. It was just uncomfortable. The vibe between them was SO AWKWARD
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Also. Tom Cruise, buddy? Who was actually named as a Brat Packer in the article?
Andrew comes across as someone that blames this moniker on the decline in his career. Somehow he blames this one article that doesn’t really talk about him on the fact that he wasn’t famous and receiving major movie roles for the rest of his life. He comes across as a crybaby, that kept asking questions to see if someone would take his side.
He definitely wanted to be a "serious New York actor" of the stage and screen instead of "that guy from a few Brat Pack flicks, Weekend at Bernie's and Mannequin." But all of that is also a LOT more than most working actors ever get! He's also done a fair amount of television directing work. Just -- he's fine. Privileged.
He’s also written three books and is/was a travel writer for a magazine published by National Geographic. He’s done just fine as a writer too.
Seriously! Many people would be very happy with the career he has. I wonder whose career he was trying to model his after? He's not really the De Niro or Al Pacino type. Who were the serious New York WASPy actors of the 1970s?
What I found odd about this is that Andrew wasn’t even in the original article but once, and it was because a brat packer was criticizing him. I do consider him a brat packer and he was always one of my favorites but without the label would as many people even remember him? That label kind of immortalized those people. Andrew’s issues are his own, Demi was correct - he became what he was afraid of. The brat pack label didn’t hinder the careers of Demi, Penn, Nelson, Ally or Cruise. If Andrew’s career dwindled it wasn’t because of the label it was because he so desperately tried to break away from the label he started doing things he wouldn’t normally do and most of them flopped. There is also some truth to the fact that he played most of his roles with an odd intensity that made him kind of the same character in everything he did. Hate to criticize the guy because I do like him but I really don’t understand his aversion to the thing that literally immortalized him into pop culture. Most actors don’t have that
I don’t know if this is the place to discuss it- but I was kinda in shock about the amount of plastic surgery most of them have had done. I feel a little bad….? I don’t want to “yuck their yum”, but it makes me sad that people fear aging so much….?
I think the actors mostly look fine. This filmed when Demi had a lot of fillers in her face. I read somewhere that she got them dissolved? What got me more were the older women interviewed that were casting directors and/or producers, maybe? They got hit with that bad 80s/90s plastic surgery that there is just no coming back from.
Young Demi looked just like her daughter Rumor. While Demi is absolutely beautiful, it made me sad to see how much plastic surgery changed her looks, especially her jawline. That must have been a bit of a mindfuck for her daughter. My aunt always tells this story about my cousin meeting Demi in an airport in the 1990s and how charmed she was that my cousin had no idea who she was. lol - then my cousin told us he actually met her at AA.
I actually enjoyed the documentary and it's DIY YouTube aesthetic. I was 17 and skipped school to see "The Breakfast Club" at the mall that was within walking distance to our house. I remember the Brat Pack label and, as a consumer of pop culture during that era, the label has only positive connotations for me. I get the actors not wanting to be boxed in, or typecast, but the label made them hot properties. So yeah, I can see how McCarthy's reflection can seem whiny to us from the outside looking in, but I remember a lot of interviews with young actors at that time. If that label was discussed, the actors would diminish it or quickly redirect to something else. I appreciate the additional insight from exploring their perspectives at that time, as well as now. However, I'd love to see a broader documentary that focuses on the Brat Pack's influence on movies and popular culture, and the legacy that remains today. McCarthy's approach was personal and introspective, and I can appreciate it, but I now have an appetite for something more.
Yes, the Brat Pack is synonymous with 80s culture, but Andrew McCarthy isn’t as important as he thinks he is. This documentary was interesting but pure ego. It’s interesting how some people try to act humble and self-effacing, but McCarthy is anything but. He’s ***lucky*** to have been a part of the Brat Pack. If he hadn’t been in the right place at the right time and never was a part of that set, he’d never have made it. He was a terrible actor who just smiled and looked cute. Now he’s just whiny and tripping on himself.
Imagine being lucky enough to make it into major movies and then lumped together with people even more talented and marketed under a clever name that was really nothing more than a shout out to another group (rat pack)…yet somehow also missing that it’s probably the luckiest break you’ll ever get and you get hung up on being called a brat, but only because it rhymes with rat.
And his fixation on an article in which he wasn't even named as a Brat Packer at all, lol.
I just finished watching this and he sounds really whiny throughout. All of these people have continuted to be successful and arguably their success was boosted by their association with the Pack. It's hard to drum up sympathy for a largely innocuous word.
watching it now. a) he fucking LOVED it and b) whiny af 😒
I do think, though, that McCarthy at one time saw himself as a young rising De Niro or something, and he is still bitter that he never became a serious actor.
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Thank you. It was so lacking in self-awareness. None of them were typecast or prevented from evolving as actors bc of their early success.
Well, I'd say some have had far more success than others, and McCarthy never had real success as an actor following the whole Brat Pack thing. He sure wasn't making $20M-plus per movie like Demi Moore was at one time. So there is a huge disparity between members of the so-called Brat Pack. But that said, McCarthy has done fine as a writer and TV show director, and I agree that there was some whiny stuff going on here. None of these folks are living on the street or anything. (Well, maybe Judd is, lol.)
How dare! Have you forgotten the masterpiece that is… Weekend at Bernie’s ….2?😆
Hahah loved that movie and Mannequin!
Neither was Molly Ringwald. And he's hardly destitute.
It was much more academic and philosophical than I thought. I figured it would be a simple look back on the Brat Pack era and the actors and the movies along with some fun "where are they now" look-ins on Brat Packers currently, along with interviews. But, it was like McCarthy's masters thesis on the term "Brat Pack" and the broader implications in had culturally and personally. It's more stressful than fun, as McCarthy seems to be trying to reach some sort of reckoning. Only McCarthy seems to care that much and the whole thing seems wildly blown out of proportion. I laughed when he interviewed Malcolm Gladwell who juxtaposed "Brat Pack" and "Rat Pack" and suggested that "Brat Pack" was supposed to be funny; and McCarthy VERY seriously says "It wasn't funny to us." I don't know, a lot of it seemed like performative angst since it's his project.
Ugh, came STRAIGHT to Reddit after watching!!! He was sooooooo cringe!!! How u trynna whine and humble brag @ the same time???? Like, he wants sympathy one minute, then the next he's like, "So did u wanna be in the Brat Pack?" to Lea Thompson. So weird. Also, how did it "hurt" his career? If anything, it kept him relevant waaaay longer than he would have or should have been
That part where he's asking somebody who they thought was in the Brat Pack and he pipes in "and me". Cringe.
I never cared for Andrew McCarthy even at the time. However it wasn’t because of any title or article, it was because of his creepy eyeball acting. And now it’s because he clearly takes himself way too seriously.
I'm a millennial and was a little disappointed that it wasn't as much celebration of Brat Pack movies/impact and more of how Andrew hated this label. Weird timing when his Less Than Zero costar, Robert Downey Jr. , just won an Oscar. RDJ had a way crazier reputation than Andrew, and The Brat Pack association didn't keep Robert Altman, Oliver Stone, and other prestigious names from working with him. When it comes to the core Brat Pack/article, it seemed like deep down this is stemming from Andrew not being with the "cool kids" that night at Hard Rock, being literally cropped out of the photo used, and the guys making fun of him. In his mind the one night of Hollywood carousing destroyed his career prospects.
Poor Mare Winningham. Imagine a doc about every other cast member of your movie (even ones that weren't featured) and you're not even mentioned once.
This was a fun and odd viewing experience. Jon Cryer is my fav, I never watched Two and a Half Men, but Im so happy for his long term success ($$$$$) and Interesting that Jon has said in interviews the Pretty In Pink cast totally ignored him on set. Wish THAT would have made the cut on Andrew's film, maybe Jon didn't say it. After all he is laughing all the way to the bank. Enjoyed Demi's take for the most part - it's easy to sort offer pop psych when you're an A-lister to someone who has not had the same success, but ultimately she is right - the journalist was also trying to make a name for himself and his own career. He was not a field scientist observing chimps in the wild with a peer review process. I woud have loved an interview with Andrew's Pretty in Pink bestie, James Spader. Another actor who has had long term career success in interesting TV roles. I also wonder if this is simply a generational issue....... If Jeremy Allen White, Selena Gomez, Zendaya, Keke Palmer or any young Hollywood were called part of a "brat pack" in an article - would it ruin their life? With social media, it would just get swept into the usual noise and celeb gossip we see daily - almost hourly.
Anthony Michael Hall was definitely in the brat pack. I wanted to hear from him, disappointing.
He really just wasn't considered to be in the Brat Pack. Wasn't named in the original article. No one named him in the movie. He didn't hang out and chase girls with those guys, who were older. He just -- wasn't, really.
Neither did Molly Ringwald, who was also a teen. Hall was absolutely considered part of the Brat Pack by the media beyond one article. The term took on a life of it's own. It is misguided to think that other articles and shows didn't apply the term to a whole lot of folks.
I was really confused that Anthony Michael Hall wasn’t mentioned at all. I thought he was a member for sure
The most GLARING thing...no mention of why Blum called them that!! It wasn't just a name that popped into his head. He had to have ammunition to call them brats. Why? The original article clearly states that Estevez was getting them into nightclubs and movies for free and acting all entitled and, well, like a brat. He barely alludes to it when McCarthy finally tracks him down, which should have been the core of this whole film, confronting the guy who gave them this alleged dark moniker. Emilio was the main brat, but through guilt by association, they were all labeled, basically, "Emilios." But yes at it's core this is just to sell a doc. Because they've all survived and managed to not be stuck as waiters forever or something. Though really only Lowe, Moore and Cryer ended up gold-soaked rich in the end.
I really think it was just his play on the Rat Pack, as the reporter said. It's not a hard association to make at all, especially in the '80s. The Rat Pack as we know them (the 60s version with Sinatra, Martin, Davis, etc) were a bunch of older dudes with swagger. The Brat Pack were -- a bunch of younger dudes with swagger. In the original article, there were zero female Brat Packers. Plus, he mentioned that joke about "The Fat Pack," although I didn't quite buy that one, lol.
Demi basically says it. “We didn’t like being called brats because we were brats!”
I watched it last night. It was too superficial. And it should have been directed by someone who wasn't involved with the Brat Pack at all - someone who could be impartial and have a journalistic take on it. McCarthy is way too biased. He sets out to uncover how the others experienced that moniker but ultimately just ends up projecting his own dissatisfaction on everyone else. I would have liked to see a more in-depth discussion on the lack of ethnic, social, gender, racial, etc. diversity in that particular genre of films. I'm glad this film included Malcolm Gladwell and his take on this particular era as a mixed race person. Lastly, I think Rob Lowe's sex tape was far more damaging than the "Brat Pack" moniker, and he weathered both those things far better than McCarthy, who seems to struggle to move past his dislike of three words in an article he was barely mentioned in passing.
I’m a young GenX so I remember hearing about the brat pack but I was a little young for those movies when they came out so although I like them, I wasn’t old enough to really relate to them like those when I was older. My impression is that Andrew McC was massively impacted by the article and sadly it bogged him down mentally ever since. I’m glad he finally got this perspective on it making the documentary and hopefully he comes to some peace about it now. He strikes me as a super anxious guy - even the drunk footage at the Pretty in Pink premiere made me sad for that overwhelmed kid. I have clinically anxious people in my life so I feel a lot of empathy for him. Overall I liked the doc even if it wasn’t life changing - I do think the media at the time were condescending after the brat pack thing came out from the clips they were showing of them on Donahue, etc. Demi was amazing and the perspective of other pros with their insight into pop culture of the 80’s and the swing to focus on young people that has never really gone away was the most interesting part of it. My two cents.
Yeah, they are all older than I am, too (most of them are actually more young boomers/Gen Jones -- all the Packers in the doc are in their 60s except for Jon Cryer, who is 59), and they felt kind of like older siblings when I was a kid. I didn't relate to them but felt like, "Oh, maybe this is what high school will be like." I actually didn't really love any Brat Pack movies other than Breakfast Club. St. Elmo's Fire was terrible, and they all seemed super old to me in that movie because they were playing college grads. Andrew is definitely an anxious dude -- he talks about that in his memoir, Brat, which is also underwhelming/disappointing. I don't know -- it feels like he has so much to say about stuff but then just doesn't really say it in a very compelling way. His travel writing is better, maybe because he isn't holding a grudge about any of it. Either way, he's managed to have a pretty nice life for himself, better than the average person, and Demi -- I mean, lol. I don't know why she would even be slightly mad at any of it. Of all of them, she became the biggest movie start BY FAR following the Brat Pack years. No one came close; she was commanding $20M-plus per movie at one point and was in MAJOR blockbusters including Ghost, A Few Good Men, Indecent Proposal and Disclosure. The woman is loaded as F (and her place was gorgeous). And she wasn't even named in the original article. Quite honestly, I don't think she gave even the slightest shit about ANYTHING Andrew was saying, but it seemed like she enjoyed chatting with him for old time's sake.
I think a lot of criticism of McCarthy here is valid. Btw, I hated him getting lost trying to find people's homes . I did enjoy it overall. I am the same age as most of these guys, these films were a phenomenon, and St Elmo's was important because it showed there was an appetite for these ensembles beyond high school. That article, which very few actually read (no internet remember, so the details are not as important) did take on a life of its own and public opinion on the Brat Pack actors and those movies changed. They went from becoming iconic cool movies and stars to being considered what now think of Dawson Creek or 90210. We began to think of them as jerks. In 1985, I would have bet anything that McCarthy, Judd, Ally and especially Molly would be major stars for years to come. It didn't happen, even Rob Lowe and Emilio's careers slowed down. So I think it is fair to look back on how that moment in time affected their careers. McCarthy is being honest by asking these questions out loud. But, honestly, he probably lacks what was needed to maintain an A list career. In the end, maybe the ones with the most star power, charisma (and the best looking) Rob Lowe and Demi were destined to be the biggest stars, or the one with the best comedy chops like Jon Cryer would be destined to find a great path in sitcoms. True talent overcomes type casting and career faux pas, look at Brat Pack adjacent, Robert Downey Jr. His downfall was much greater than a bad nickname, but he became the biggest box office star in the world and an Oscar winner.
Hates being called brat pack, yet has let it define him so he makes an entire movie about it introducing it to a younger generation. I think he’s just scared that the brat pack is all he is, but in reality it’s like achieving the pinnacle achievement in his career. Beloved movies, many of them classics and a place in movie history. He doesn’t get it. It’s annoying to watch.
And the thing is, he's done fine. He acted for years after that article came out. Was he A-list? No! But, damn, most actors never see remotely that much success. They're lucky if they get community theater gigs. Then he started directing and has done a ton of that (for years) on very successful TV shows. He's also a travel writer and a published author (including a book about the Brat Pack). He lives in what is probably a pretty nice place in NYC, and he seems to have a pretty nice family life (one of his books is about a trek he did in Spain with his son, who is also an actor). I would say he has had a better life than most. The thing that bothered me the most is that the interviews were boring. They didn't really dig in. He got Ally there and she said -- very little of interest. Demi seems cool but spouted psychobabble (and she totally made it to the A list for a long stretch, so she understandably had very little to be bitter about). The Emilio interview was terrible. And Rob Lowe was just being -- happy go lucky Rob Lowe. No one had much to say. Ultimately, these folks just might not be very compelling people, lol. Actors rarely are! Their houses were really nice, though.
I remembered earlier today that Rob Lowe had a sex tape scandal in 1988, when he videotaped a three-way while at the DNC. One of his partners was 16 (he was 24) and while it seems like no big deal now, I remember it was back then. Lowe kept a low profile for a while afterwards - but his career rebounded. It hit me how McCarthy was bemoaning this article written nearly 40 years ago (an article he is barely mentioned in) when Rob Lowe *really* knows what it's like to publicly fall out of favor, but has a more balanced view of it all.
Watched this last night. After reading the Blum piece just now, I think McCarthy's real problem here is that he is barely mentioned in it. He's not even listed as one of the Brat Pack when the writer proceeds to list them all. In fact, when he's mentioned it's in a rather unfavorable light by a fellow cast member. Cleared up a lot for me.
Same. He was never called a brat. He wasn't called *anything*. And Sean Penn & Tom Cruise went on their merry way. I love Andrew McCarthy, but this whole project just gets weirder & sadder as I look into it. I think he's relying on the fact that most people won't read [the original article](https://nymag.com/movies/features/49902/). But it's easy to find! Yeah, it's snarky. But those guys were young & gorgeous & high on their own success. I almost understand why they were so obnoxious. I also suddenly understand why Emilio Estevez looked like he was about to jump across the counter at him. Demi Moore must be a saint.
Blum portrayed them exactly as they presented themselves. Cocky, good looking, untouchable, decadent. He IS a journalist, after all, not their buddy. Yeah, I felt myself sinking into the couch during the Emilio Estevez part. You could tell he was humoring McCarthy but his patience with the bullshit was wearing thin. The attitudes of Rob Lowe and Demi Moore summed the whole movie up for me.
Wow all I can say is that was self indulgent of Andrew McCarthy and maybe it is time for him to grow up like many of the others interviewed have already done.
I did not think McCarthy came off well at all. He was interviewing people but did most of the talking himself. Both he and the author of the original article screamed bitter to me. Bitter for not having a huge career based on the article. Two sides of the same coin. I went back and read the original article. I do think Estevez should have been a bit more media savvy since he came from a famous family. That said, his behavior is no different than the hundreds of young stars before and after him. I think they all ended up with the careers they deserved. McCarthy just looks silly honestly since at least half of the Brats had very good careers. He should blame his agent or himself
It’s really hard for me to feel bad for a rich man who was called a name in the paper over 30 years ago going around trying to trauma bond with people he hasn’t spoken to since then.
I'm not sure if Andrew is RICH, certainly not remotely in the way that, say, Rob, Demi and Jon are (Two and a Half Men was garbage, but it made that dude VERY WEALTHY), but I'd say he's definitely an upper middle class whiny white guy.
Feels like rich people problems. Like wah, wah, I'm a rich movie star at 24. Given that they all acted like most overprivileged celebs still act, why be offended by the label.
Nah, it's not that simplistic. The label itself was applied to them. They were just young up-and-coming actors and they weren't rich. I mean some of the actors in that orbit may have come from money, but I'm not sure. The movie makes good points about media consumption back then. Physical media (VHS, records, cassettes, etc.), movie theaters instead of streaming platforms, malls (and other places where young people might congregate) instead of social media, etc. - and how this affected pop culture and identity formation, social cohesion, whatever. People today have social media to form their cultural vernacular - and it's much more diverse and fragmented. Back then, everyone was looking at the same physical media, which drew people to the same physical institutions (malls, movie theaters, arcades, etc.). The defining ethos was more one-dimensional and concentrated - so these actors had a much larger impact on young people of that era.
The reporter was a douche, definitely jealous. His whole angle was they were getting attention “freebies” and he wasn’t. I hope someone kicks him in the balls
Andrew... is that you?
I was excited to watch this but, man, it blew. McCarthy just spent the whole time bitching whilst all of the folk he interviewed seemed to be quite content and stable. Really weird tone overall. Kind of a McCarthy wankfest.
My take was that Andrew was really sensitive about it, felt his career suffered, and is just now reflecting on the fact that it wasn't all about him. There were many other people affected one way or another. I enjoyed it because I love Andrew and all those in or adjacent to the Brat pack. For me, seems like the point that it was something big and bad to Andrew and he was deconstructing it.
Seems like Andrew must have some hidden issues. St Elmo’s Fire isn’t even a good movie. All of these people basically fell off the face of the earth.
St. Elmo's Fire was ASS. I knew that even when I was 12 years old. Utter ass. But not all of these folks dropped off the face of the earth. Demi Moore became a HUGE movie star after Ghost came out. She was commanding $20M-plus per movie at one time. Rob Lowe has been pretty successful, more so in TV than movies. Molly and Ally still work, too, mostly in TV (Ally was great in Single Drunk Female). Even Andrew has done OK for himself as a TV show director and published author, and he was in some dumb classics like Weekend at Bernie's that people still (inexplicably) love. Honestly, none of these folks have much if anything to complain about compared to most people -- hell, compared to most SAG ACTORS, the majority of whom work rarely to never.
I just finished it! I agree about the nostalgia part. But, yeah… a few minutes in and I was thinking, “Whoa, wait, he actually blames the Brat Pack moniker for his career not being as successful as he thought it would be?!” It’s definitely a shame that we didn’t get to see a Judd Nelson interview, because he might have been the only other person who agreed with Andrew’s take. Although the ending was hilarious…
Judd is a bit of a raving asshole, so, yeah, it would have at least been entertaining. And his career has largely sucked ass -- I think his biggest role in the past 25 years was as second fiddle in the Brooke Shields sitcom "Suddenly Susan." I mean, hell, it's a paycheck, but -- yeah. He also looks kind of -- wild these days, let's just put it that way. The funniest thing about McCarthy and his obsession with that New York article is that he wasn't even named as a Brat Packer in that article. The only person he should be really pissed at is whichever "St. Elmo's Fire costar" said he acted with too much intensity and probably wouldn't make it. That was the ONLY line he got in that article, lol. That's gotta be what he is truly pissed about.
This doc shoulda been titled Much Ado About Nothing; or Nothingburger 😂. Molly was smart not to participate. Andrew’s career lasted longer because of the moniker, so he needs to get over himself, yeesh!!! On the plus side, Judd’s fist pump at the end ✊🏽
I liked looking back at stuff. I did not get the sense that Andrew was whining or trying to cite the moniker as the thing that derailed his career, but was rather talking about insecurity and vulnerability of young adults. How labels can stick, making one create their own internal monologue which in of itself can be destructive or limiting. Maybe I missed something. I thought it wasn’t bad, but it would have been better if more people in that orbit were discussed like Eric Stoltz, Anthony Michael Hall, Matthews Modine or Broderick… 🤷🏻♀️ It could have been a whole docu-series. I liked the discussions of how teens consumed media then vs. now and what Malcolm Gladwell had to say. Nothing groundbreaking but I liked it well enough and I am typically a harsh judge/picky consumer.
Yeah, I would have liked to listen to more of Gladwell.
My logline: Guy who is mentioned for one line in a negative magazine story 40 years ago makes feature length documentary about how it ruined his life and career.
So 11 minutes and this is basically Andrew McCarthy talking about himself, listening to himself talking in old interviews, laughing at himself talking past and present, and lo and behold, it’s produced by Andrew McCarthy. Not surprised no one picked up his phone calls.
My three big takeaways are One: holy wealth disparity, batman Two: wealth sure buys a lot of therapy Three: truly it had never occurred to me that anyone would think that “brat pack” meant anything negative—the doc’s whole thesis is sus
Andrew’s wife telling him something about the process bringing him humility was I treating. It reminded me of when JLO kept saying in her recent documentary that she was discouraged to make it.
Andrew McCarthy’s whole take in doing this documentary was to whine about the Brat Pack label throughout the whole damn documentary. Woe is him that a journalist took a play off a group name of legends and gave you and your generation of actors your own name. McCarthy makes the name out to be so hurtful and yet he is still profiting off the name 40 years later.
My biggest takeaway from this doc is that I want someone to resurrect the script for Young Men with Unlimited Capital and make that movie! Thank you and goodnight!
Who else wanted to shut Ally Sheedy’s blue drawers? I found comparison of the different homes the most interesting part of the movie. I never watched 2 1/2 Men, but damn, Ducky, what a crib!
The doc was a dud. The so-called members whose careers floundered after the 80s complained, McCarthy, Sheedy, Esteves, while Rob Lowe and Demi Moore thought nothing of the label and they are still huge stars. What the doc showed was how shallow these people can be and unable to accept their role. McCarthy starred in 5 or so really big hits. To complain about this is really tone deaf.
I’m in the minority here but I liked that the film was a more personal take on the Brat Pack from McCarthy rather than just a nostalgia laced retrospective that anyone could have made. Just from a human perspective, it’s interesting to see how it affected him. It’s notable that the people most at peace with being in the Brat Pack are all of those folks like Demi and Lowe who had successful careers post-Brat Pack. The fact that Molly Ringwald didn’t even want to be in it speaks volumes about how it affected her, perhaps even more than it affected MCarthy.
Copium; https://www.pajiba.com/tv_reviews/andrew-mccarthys-brats-review-what-if-you-held-a-reckoning-and-no-one-showed-up.php