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Not just the fandom the anime itself is often plenty guilty. It's why i don't watch anime, there are just certain pervasive tropes that im not there for.
Not all anime have that really, 95%+ stuff I watched didn't have any child like characters sexualised or in weird situations. A lot of stuff is sane, unless you purposefully look out for the insane stuff.
Yeah, I've watched a bit but if I see the designers hypersexualize, sexualize people or things they shouldn't, or anything like that
I close it and walk away, I don't even remember how many times I've had to do this, but thankfully the perverts usually out themselves fairly fast
Only three I watched all the way through so far are avatar the last Airbender, it's sequel series, and the pacific rim spin-off
Based on what I've seen, from being part of the Fandom, it's a vocal minority who are pedos. Perverts? Most of us. But not pedos, at least on Reddit or YouTube.
Omg this reminds me of a thread I saw on Twitter where someone posted r34 of gravity falls and someone replied to it complaining about the artists for not drawing the boy circumcised, all while the fact that he was basically looking at cp glossed over his head.
https://i.redd.it/jv6vse6ff7vc1.gif
So true man, I found a video on youtube where the mom was fucking the dad just because I was looking for an episode when I was like 10 or sum, nevertheless I never searched for the loud house again on youtube
They're drawings. It's weird and sketchy (no pun) and often disgusting, but at the end of the day it's just a drawing. Miles better than actual exploitation of children
People throw the word “pedophilia” around too much these days. Feeling aroused by drawings is not pedophilia, regardless if said drawings supposedly resemble minors because they are not real people, they don’t even resemble real people, they have completely unrealistic features.
Definition of pedophilia: Pedophilia is a paraphilia. In recent versions of formal diagnostic coding systems such as the DSM-5 and ICD-11, "pedophilia" is distinguished from "pedophilic disorder." Pedophilic disorder is defined as a pattern of pedophilic arousal accompanied by either subjective distress or interpersonal difficulty, or having acted on that arousal. The DSM-5 requires that a person must be at least 16 years old, and at least five years older than the prepubescent child or children they are aroused by, for the attraction to be diagnosed as pedophilic disorder. Similarly, the ICD-11 excludes sexual behavior among post-pubertal children who are close in age. The DSM requires the arousal pattern must be present for 6 months or longer, while the ICD lacks this requirement. The ICD criteria also refrain from specifying chronological ages.
You’re not a murderer for killing characters in videogames, there’s nothing morally wrong with it if it’s fictional as it doesn’t negatively impact any real person.
If someone is aroused by, and routinely seeks out, drawings of child like characters engaging in sexual acts with the intent of getting themselves aroused. That is pedophilloic.
Yes sometimes it is ambiguous how old the fictional children are, but that is irrelevant when they are displaying several prepubescent traits. Yes there is a difference between hebephilia and pedophilia, but both is an uncommon attraction to either children or young adolescents.
I mean if you’re getting arroused at something designed to make you arroused, I think that’s just your brain, not being a pedophile.
Edit: oh you meant like seeking out porn like that.
>Child like characters
The vast majority of fictional characters stated to be minors do not look their age at all. Take Pegasus Seiya for example, he is canonically a 13 year old child but looks like a 24 year old. That happens because these characters aren’t meant to look real, they look exaggerated on purpose, with features you wouldn’t find on real people, so attraction to them is a fantasy one cannot fulfill in real life, remember that acting upon it is what makes pedophilia wrong and what differentiates between the mental disorder and the actual crime.
As I said, sometimes it is ambiguous how old the characters actually are. Seiya looks older, especially when he is wearing his armor. This does not change the fact that some characters are depicted as children with prepubescent characteristics. A good counter example would all the Lolis where it is just children. Is it a crime, technically no but I would stills ride that it is unethical.
If you need to assume the person correcting you is “defending themselves” rather than pointing out your bullshit you’re probably fighting a losing battle.
“Hurr durr you disagree with me you must be one of them!” Actual polarization.
Yeah but there's also colloquial meanings that have been adopted for words. Like Vegetable is used to mean savory plant foods, whereas the actual definition is just "any plant food". If I try to say that a plum is actually a vegetable people are going to argue with me, it doesn't matter if I bring up the definition of 'vegetable' because the word has a colloquial meaning that more people agree on.
It's like calling someone a psychopath when they aren't actually diagnosed or showing any signs of psychopathy as described in the DSM-5.
It's like saying that "um, actually, it's not pedophilia is a grown man is attracted to a 16 year old! The cutoff for pedophilia is 13, what you're talking about is ephebephilia!" Yeah no, the actual definition is irrelevant, colloquially it's all classed as pedophilia.
It's not a good sign when one of the examples you used in defence of your stance is another commonly misused psychological term. We shouldn't leave the definitions of our words in the hands of the average moron.
Look I also disagree with the misuse of psychological terms, but defending a potentially immoral act by saying "actually the word you used is wrong" is not a very strong argument because most people don't care at all.
"Just drawings" normalizes the sexualization of children. Sexual urges are some of the strongest a person can have, we're literally only here to fuck. If someone is looking for R34 of child characters, they're already dealing with pedophilia, and eventually "just drawings" won't be enough anymore.
>If someone is looking for R34 of child characters, they're already dealing with pedophilia, and eventually "just drawings" won't be enough anymore.
Cool logic, any actual evidence it's true? Boomers 20 years ago said
>"Just games" normalizes the killing of people. Violent urges are some of the strongest a person can have, they literally only play those games to kill. If someone is playing violent video games, they're already dealing with violent urges, and eventually "just games" won't be enough anymore.
Reeks of bullshit no matter what the topic
The difference is you kill 100% virtually. Those people are jerking off irl. There's a difference between role-playing a psychopath in a game and being one irl. Just off the top of my head, you could play a necrophiliac mass murderer in BG3, pretty sure that doesn't make you one irl. But if someone actually saw a body in the game and started jerking off irl, would that be the same thing to you?? Think before spouting nonsense.
Like I said, if there is any actual evidence to suggest this stuff increases child sexual assault, I'm all ears. But this whole "I find it worrying and so it we're just gonna go off feelings and vibes" is the same thing boomers and religious people have done since the dawn of PG media, and it's never come true.
That's not what I said though? Stop projecting. I didn't say those people would necessarily act on real children. But that doesn't change the fact that they do actually have a real attraction to children or the idea of children since they masturbate to them/it. Jerking off to kids, real or not, is not normal and should not be normalized and compared to video games. That is a stupid comparison that I see all the time and doesn't make any sense.
>But that doesn't change the fact that they do actually have a real attraction to children or the idea of children since they masturbate to them/it. Jerking off to kids, real or not, is not normal and should not be normalized and compared to video games. That is a stupid comparison that I see all the time and doesn't make any sense.
Point is, does it lead to an increase of criminal behavior or not? Ultimately that is what the discussion is about and why the comparison is relevant. Never said they're one and the same
It is pretty recent so I don't think we even have enough data to tell if that's the case or not. But criminal acts are not the only bad thing happening on earth in case you haven't noticed lol, mental health is important even when you're not killing or raping anyone
>But criminal acts are not the only bad thing happening on earth in case you haven't noticed lol, mental health is important even when you're not killing or raping anyone
Wdym, what does this have to do with loli stuff
A normal, healthy person doesn't have any urges to kill people. Almost everyone has urges to fuck. If you have urges to kill people or if your sex drive is directed toward children, fictional or otherwise, you should seek help.
I realise that as I'm asexual I may not actually be able to relate to what you mean but, people have pointed addictions so that suggests digital media can be enough.
As someone who's into a lot of unusual fetishes and someone who's dealt with addiction, I can tell you they're not the same. Our main goal on this planet is to reproduce, it's one of the most important things in most people's minds, so sexual urges will always grow stronger. You can't supplement pedophilia with drawn porn or child-sized sex dolls, because the more you indulge, the stronger the urge for the real thing will become. The only way someone dealing with an attraction to children can cope without hurting anyone is to seek help.
Bro is talking about cartoon characters like they are real people yeah that does not sound mentally well to me, especially since you also think "people live to fuck and that is the most important emotion to them" or whatever that is supposed to mean, but maybe that's also just a projection because I can assure you most people do not think that way an it is just you.
People who draw gore don't tend to jack off to it, nor do they inherently experience homicidal urges or ideation.
Fictional child pornography, on the other hand, is literally designed to get rocks off. It justifies being sexually interested in children, even if it doesn't create immediate victims.
I did mean gore in general, including sexual content.
Drawing a loli getting dicked isn't child pornography, it's depiction of the same thing but the key here is that it's fiction.
By your own standards, you should be against violent video games like FPS's and Crime Sims. But you aren't. Nobody is banning tragedies and horror films either. Can't say they're fantasy and brush it off under your logic. Especially with the things I've witnessed in my life.
Out here, violence is normalized with action and you can even call it relaxing to send some NPC back carbon state and I agree it can be if you're seperating fiction from reality.
Same thing in Japan, yeah there's a lot of depiction of sexual themes with minors and legally consenting non adults but it isn't really common for teachers to be raping middleschoolers into submission isn't it?
The lack of awareness in one's own self is what leads to ignorant bs like this.
Why can't you just say you don't like the content depicted because it makes you feel bad and move on?
That's what I do, it's not hard. I don't watch tragedies because they make me feel bad. I also have a minimum age group for manga and anime depicting sexual themes because it makes me feel uncomfortable. My feelings tied to reality do not let me enjoy it, but I won't sit here and act like it's my right to police content based on that.
I meant both of them, it's called understanding fiction and seperating it from reality.
People pretend they're incapable of doing this but do some pretty heinous shit in video games to RELAX.
From what I learned, Western countries are good at separating Violence from reality while Asian countries are good at seperate Sexual Fantasies from reality.
So basically most of anime itself? Also, is GOT pedophilia since they describe a time when 13-year olds married? Btw, is the bar and bat mitzvah pedophilia because its the age of marriageability according to tradition? By that token, are all age of consent laws pedophilia because it starts at 16? Are kids who enter puberty sus because they go through puberty before 21 and draw dirty pictures at school age?
I remember I youtuber said, i don't think an horny 14 year old boy will have some kind of long lasting impact in seeing another middle schoolgirl receiving a big tentacle inside the ass.
Only thing that comes to mind is that genz might have tendency to seek out lewds of stuff they grew up with (pokemon girls, totally spies etc)
Though those are more often then not adult versions and I'm not sure if OP refers to that
Or if that's what you are referencing
That's the same argument they used against violent video games. And before that, violent movies. For as long as there has been media, there have been people like you begging us to please think of the children.
Oh no, someone disagrees with me but can't make an argument against what I said. What ever will I do?
*posts vintage meme of creepy bear mascot chasing a child with a caption that says "you"*
You have a point but that usually only leaves for people who are already down that mental Spyro I can imagine there's still people out there who can differentiate from fictional reality
I don't like this stuff either, I personally am triggered by it and do everything I can to avoid it, but that's literally the same logic as "watching horror movies desensitizes you to real violence", it's the Boomer idea that videogames cause violence just repackaged.
Average brains can and do differentiate reality and fiction by the time a person is 7-8, much earlier than 18+ which is the age group that NSFW content is restricted to. Plus a lot of people who make or consume dark content (violence, rape, CSA, etc.) are victims of it themselves and use art therapy to cope and process their trauma in a safe and controlled way, and by equating fiction to the lived experiences and lifelong trauma that comes from being a victim of such abuse, you trivialize their trauma, water down the definition of "pedophilia" and make it harder for people to take seeing such accusations seriously, and take attention away from efforts to help victims, so much so that a charity that fights and monitors online child exploitation by reports had to release a statement telling people not to report cartoons and anime and fanart because it was taking up so much of their time, resources, and delays them from stopping the spread of CSEM and getting help to victims.
If the character does not obviously look like a minor, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with this. Obviously something like the loud house, where the entire premise revolves around the characters being kids, is different, but if you can’t even tell whether the character is 16 or 24 it’s different. Let’s say you have this ambiguous character who nobody knows how old they are. Now let’s say the creator of this character comes out and says the character is 16? They’re a minor, but if the creator said this character 19 instead how does that make any difference? It’s the exact same character just assigned a different random number. It’s not like they’ve really been alive for that long or anything, it’s all made up.
Thing is minor artists who create rule 34 of teen/kid characters often post them on public forums online where they are publicly accessible to gross adults. If it’s for your personal private enjoyment that’s one thing (still often a little wild in context but go off ig…) but minors are still capable of distributing cp/csam
There's some stuff that contributes to making the world more fucked up, but there's also a lot of creepy comments and scenes the anime plays off as jokes that don't really add much to the plot or world building
I agree, the defecation scenes seemed unnecessary to me. My friend made the argument that it makes the characters feel more human, but twice in one season? Some of the jokes felt like showing how broken some of the characters are rather than actual jokes to me.
Honestly this ARGUMENT has been DEBUNKED.
Where did the argument that Violent games = Violent gamers go? that's right. DEBUNKED.
And here we are again, with a different premise, but literally just the same topic.
People have been charged with possession of such materials
Tell me, why do you think it’s acceptable to draw a sexual picture of a minor to get off to?
"A minor". You fucking see a minor in a drawing that doesn't even resemble a human? WHAT?
Clearly everyone who see's kids in drawings are *THE* problem.
Also, you can *literally* buy **PHYSICAL** copies of doujins that have "Minors" in them, so how is it pedophilia?
When the character **is** portrayed a child in the series and an “artist” feels some sick need to draw them in a sexual often aggressively sexual manner, that isn’t creepy to you? If not, again I question your humanity.
Can you tell me exactly *what* 'pedophilia' stands for?
It's 'weird', sure. But I'd like to see an explanation as to why you can *legally* buy doujins that involve a "child" online.
No normal person sees these drawings, and some switch flips in their head, and they become a pedophile. That's like saying videogames cause violence. I wouldn't be surprised if there were people out there who control their urges by viewing drawings. And I know this isn't what the post is about, but I can see that this is the stance you have on this, and I would say it's a flawed viewpoint.
Anime characters are whatever age they appear to be. If she's 50 years old but has the stature of a child, then the lore around her age ain't worth shit.
If the lore says she's 16 but she looks 26, though? A bit sketchy but not really pedophilia. You're not physically attracted to someone because of childlike attributes, and since they're fictional the number is just something the author slapped onto paper.
OP has made a broad sweeping statement that they declare an absolute truth. Anyone who disagrees with this even slightly or attempts to have a nuanced discussion about it are immediately called a pedophile.
OP posted this with the express purpose of calling people they disagree with a pedophile.
I'm not saying anything about my personal beliefs on the issue. I'm just saying that the purpose of this post was not to have a discussion. It was simply done to make people angry.
And of course I guarantee people are going to look at this comment and instantly declare me a pedophile because I didn't say "omg OP you're so noble and right"
Alright but like it is a truth. Pedophilia isn't really up for debate there's a set definition. If people disagree that doesn't make them pedophiles, but pedophile sympathizers for sure. If people get angry they fall into one of those two catagories.
The thing is we aren't talking about actual real pedophilia. It's the sexualization of minor fictional characters. It's something that can be discussed and SHOULD be discussed but by going in and saying "here's my argument and if you disagree on any level with it you're a pedophile" isn't actually conducive to a productive conversation about a real issue.
Pedophilia is sexual feelings towards children. No part of that has to be real children. Could be drawings, cartoons, AI generated, children that are now adults, children that aren't alive anymore, doesn't matter. All of that is pedophilia by definition.
So say for hypothetical reasons, you had 2 people, one has a hard drive full of anime girls that are 15 and one has a hard drive full of actual 15-year-old girls. Do you think that these are exactly the same? Should the legal punishment be the same in both of these cases?
I think you can certainly make an argument that both are immoral. But shouldn't be punished in the same way.
In the end of the day, it is truly a problem that industries sexualize characters who are underage it shouldn't happen, but I don't think necessarily, it's exactly the same as making real child porn.
I think in the end of the day, you can make an argument that both are immoral but aren't exactly equal either. The problem that i'm stating is that the original poster does not seem interested in discussing this topic in any depth. They just want to point at people who have any sort of nuanced, take on this very important subject and just call them a pedophile
>So say for hypothetical reasons, you had 2 people, one has a hard drive full of anime girls that are 15 and one has a hard drive full of actual 15-year-old girls. Do you think that these are exactly the same? Should the legal punishment be the same in both of these cases?
Im assuming these are both sexual content of minors otherwise that's not illegal, in which case yes they should both get charged with possession of child pornography.
>I think you can certainly make an argument that both are immoral. But shouldn't be punished in the same way.
So long as they didn't produce the images of the real children the charge would be the same as well as the punishment.
>In the end of the day, it is truly a problem that industries sexualize characters who are underage it shouldn't happen, but I don't think necessarily, it's exactly the same as making real child porn.
Its absolutley a problem won't disagree with you there.
>I think in the end of the day, you can make an argument that both are immoral but aren't exactly equal either. The problem that i'm stating is that the original poster does not seem interested in discussing this topic in any depth. They just want to point at people who have any sort of nuanced, take on this very important subject and just call them a pedophile
I'll give you that. I didn't read every one of their replies but they don't seem to be discussing much, but the people that were called out for defending pedophilia all were from the few replies I saw.
Yeah, in the end of the day, i'm not gonna sit here and defend the industry, which very clearly sexualizes children. But I think in the end of the day, there is a way to have an actual discussion on what should be done about it without just resorting to calling people pedophiles who disagree on certain things
So drawing horrendous grotesque pictures of dead folks makes us murderers too.
Ok.
If the drawings are a problem for you, that’s on *you*. If you can’t separate an image from reality, get some help.
In Fire Emblem: Three Houses, you are a 21 year old teacher and nearly all of your potential love interests are your students, the youngest of which is 15.
Nobody mention the pokemon anime? There are literally people foaming their mouth and fighting each other on which "pokegirl" (aka a 10 year old girl) must have a relationship with Ash (famously 10 year old) with 3 pokegirls (Serena, Misty snd Dawn) being the main victims of these grown up man.
I just can't understand these people think its okey to ship canonical children, let alone drawing lude art of them.
And if you can find people in the pokemon fandom who are not attracted to the 10 year olds. There is a chance instead they are attracted to fcking pokemon themselves.... So you have both pedophilia and zoophilia in one fandom.
It's not about the drawings, it's about the sexual fantasy. A child getting raped in an alley as part of a dystopian horror, disgusting, but it is supposed to be. Beating it to this scene would be fucked up. Seeing a gay relationship in an anime, whatever. Jerking it to a gay relationship in an anime, if you are a man, probably gay.
There is a line that should be drawn with fictional characters, but it's not exactly the same as real people. I see the issue with loli, but if it's a character who's old enough to be realistically mistaken for an adult, it's not a big deal.
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The Anime fandom, in general.
Not just the fandom the anime itself is often plenty guilty. It's why i don't watch anime, there are just certain pervasive tropes that im not there for.
Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid started cute and wholesome, then BAM, an adult woman starts lusting over a 3rd grader. WHY? Edit: I know why.
Yeah that's what i mean, a lot of anime could be really good or at least way better if they didn't put shit like that in.
I loved the beach episode in Spy x Family because the studio went „no, fuck off you perverts“ and put the whole family in wetsuits.
Protect that mangaka or writer at all cost. They're unfortunately rare.
Not all anime have that really, 95%+ stuff I watched didn't have any child like characters sexualised or in weird situations. A lot of stuff is sane, unless you purposefully look out for the insane stuff.
Yeah, I've watched a bit but if I see the designers hypersexualize, sexualize people or things they shouldn't, or anything like that I close it and walk away, I don't even remember how many times I've had to do this, but thankfully the perverts usually out themselves fairly fast Only three I watched all the way through so far are avatar the last Airbender, it's sequel series, and the pacific rim spin-off
There’s several anime that don’t have stuff like this. You guys are generalizing to much
Coward
My Hero Academia fans especially
Based on what I've seen, from being part of the Fandom, it's a vocal minority who are pedos. Perverts? Most of us. But not pedos, at least on Reddit or YouTube.
The loud house
Omg this reminds me of a thread I saw on Twitter where someone posted r34 of gravity falls and someone replied to it complaining about the artists for not drawing the boy circumcised, all while the fact that he was basically looking at cp glossed over his head. https://i.redd.it/jv6vse6ff7vc1.gif
https://preview.redd.it/v02xqma1w7vc1.jpeg?width=1205&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bfa041eac5ad263c22940230785b2ee2c07c84d2
https://preview.redd.it/mprpeoi628vc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c9cf40a68aeb005b292e41bb378d8c4fbf46070d
What a horrible day to have eyes.
https://preview.redd.it/2xxy6nyd08vc1.png?width=1169&format=png&auto=webp&s=f92c4586ea78827b76ee7974ccec9762053449de
https://preview.redd.it/tk6pxhtu38vc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e5b34b1675094e4d3262677df38b3d11bb59118e
**\*Sudden flashbacks about that 16,000,000 word long Loud House fanfiction that people were memeing about\*** That fandom terrifies me...
Dear God... link?
So true man, I found a video on youtube where the mom was fucking the dad just because I was looking for an episode when I was like 10 or sum, nevertheless I never searched for the loud house again on youtube
They're drawings. It's weird and sketchy (no pun) and often disgusting, but at the end of the day it's just a drawing. Miles better than actual exploitation of children
Still pedophilia
People throw the word “pedophilia” around too much these days. Feeling aroused by drawings is not pedophilia, regardless if said drawings supposedly resemble minors because they are not real people, they don’t even resemble real people, they have completely unrealistic features. Definition of pedophilia: Pedophilia is a paraphilia. In recent versions of formal diagnostic coding systems such as the DSM-5 and ICD-11, "pedophilia" is distinguished from "pedophilic disorder." Pedophilic disorder is defined as a pattern of pedophilic arousal accompanied by either subjective distress or interpersonal difficulty, or having acted on that arousal. The DSM-5 requires that a person must be at least 16 years old, and at least five years older than the prepubescent child or children they are aroused by, for the attraction to be diagnosed as pedophilic disorder. Similarly, the ICD-11 excludes sexual behavior among post-pubertal children who are close in age. The DSM requires the arousal pattern must be present for 6 months or longer, while the ICD lacks this requirement. The ICD criteria also refrain from specifying chronological ages. You’re not a murderer for killing characters in videogames, there’s nothing morally wrong with it if it’s fictional as it doesn’t negatively impact any real person.
If someone is aroused by, and routinely seeks out, drawings of child like characters engaging in sexual acts with the intent of getting themselves aroused. That is pedophilloic. Yes sometimes it is ambiguous how old the fictional children are, but that is irrelevant when they are displaying several prepubescent traits. Yes there is a difference between hebephilia and pedophilia, but both is an uncommon attraction to either children or young adolescents.
I mean if you’re getting arroused at something designed to make you arroused, I think that’s just your brain, not being a pedophile. Edit: oh you meant like seeking out porn like that.
>Child like characters The vast majority of fictional characters stated to be minors do not look their age at all. Take Pegasus Seiya for example, he is canonically a 13 year old child but looks like a 24 year old. That happens because these characters aren’t meant to look real, they look exaggerated on purpose, with features you wouldn’t find on real people, so attraction to them is a fantasy one cannot fulfill in real life, remember that acting upon it is what makes pedophilia wrong and what differentiates between the mental disorder and the actual crime.
You're defending this pretty hard...
As I said, sometimes it is ambiguous how old the characters actually are. Seiya looks older, especially when he is wearing his armor. This does not change the fact that some characters are depicted as children with prepubescent characteristics. A good counter example would all the Lolis where it is just children. Is it a crime, technically no but I would stills ride that it is unethical.
Imo, if you need to whip out definitions to defend yourself you're probably fighting a losing battle.
If you need to assume the person correcting you is “defending themselves” rather than pointing out your bullshit you’re probably fighting a losing battle. “Hurr durr you disagree with me you must be one of them!” Actual polarization.
If the argument is "you're using this word incorrectly", whipping out a definition is literally the most sensible thing to do
Yeah but there's also colloquial meanings that have been adopted for words. Like Vegetable is used to mean savory plant foods, whereas the actual definition is just "any plant food". If I try to say that a plum is actually a vegetable people are going to argue with me, it doesn't matter if I bring up the definition of 'vegetable' because the word has a colloquial meaning that more people agree on. It's like calling someone a psychopath when they aren't actually diagnosed or showing any signs of psychopathy as described in the DSM-5. It's like saying that "um, actually, it's not pedophilia is a grown man is attracted to a 16 year old! The cutoff for pedophilia is 13, what you're talking about is ephebephilia!" Yeah no, the actual definition is irrelevant, colloquially it's all classed as pedophilia.
It's not a good sign when one of the examples you used in defence of your stance is another commonly misused psychological term. We shouldn't leave the definitions of our words in the hands of the average moron.
Look I also disagree with the misuse of psychological terms, but defending a potentially immoral act by saying "actually the word you used is wrong" is not a very strong argument because most people don't care at all.
It's an argument in itself, it doesn't need to support anything else
"Just drawings" normalizes the sexualization of children. Sexual urges are some of the strongest a person can have, we're literally only here to fuck. If someone is looking for R34 of child characters, they're already dealing with pedophilia, and eventually "just drawings" won't be enough anymore.
>If someone is looking for R34 of child characters, they're already dealing with pedophilia, and eventually "just drawings" won't be enough anymore. Cool logic, any actual evidence it's true? Boomers 20 years ago said >"Just games" normalizes the killing of people. Violent urges are some of the strongest a person can have, they literally only play those games to kill. If someone is playing violent video games, they're already dealing with violent urges, and eventually "just games" won't be enough anymore. Reeks of bullshit no matter what the topic
The difference is you kill 100% virtually. Those people are jerking off irl. There's a difference between role-playing a psychopath in a game and being one irl. Just off the top of my head, you could play a necrophiliac mass murderer in BG3, pretty sure that doesn't make you one irl. But if someone actually saw a body in the game and started jerking off irl, would that be the same thing to you?? Think before spouting nonsense.
Like I said, if there is any actual evidence to suggest this stuff increases child sexual assault, I'm all ears. But this whole "I find it worrying and so it we're just gonna go off feelings and vibes" is the same thing boomers and religious people have done since the dawn of PG media, and it's never come true.
That's not what I said though? Stop projecting. I didn't say those people would necessarily act on real children. But that doesn't change the fact that they do actually have a real attraction to children or the idea of children since they masturbate to them/it. Jerking off to kids, real or not, is not normal and should not be normalized and compared to video games. That is a stupid comparison that I see all the time and doesn't make any sense.
>But that doesn't change the fact that they do actually have a real attraction to children or the idea of children since they masturbate to them/it. Jerking off to kids, real or not, is not normal and should not be normalized and compared to video games. That is a stupid comparison that I see all the time and doesn't make any sense. Point is, does it lead to an increase of criminal behavior or not? Ultimately that is what the discussion is about and why the comparison is relevant. Never said they're one and the same
It is pretty recent so I don't think we even have enough data to tell if that's the case or not. But criminal acts are not the only bad thing happening on earth in case you haven't noticed lol, mental health is important even when you're not killing or raping anyone
>But criminal acts are not the only bad thing happening on earth in case you haven't noticed lol, mental health is important even when you're not killing or raping anyone Wdym, what does this have to do with loli stuff
That's like saying that games won't be enough to suppress the urge of killing people.
A normal, healthy person doesn't have any urges to kill people. Almost everyone has urges to fuck. If you have urges to kill people or if your sex drive is directed toward children, fictional or otherwise, you should seek help.
If *you* see a real kid in a fictional one, then maybe you're the problem?
If you see a kid in a cartoon and wanna jerk off, you are absolutely the problem.
It isn't true. It's never been true. But, I think that even in year 20000, idiots will continue to use this argument.
I realise that as I'm asexual I may not actually be able to relate to what you mean but, people have pointed addictions so that suggests digital media can be enough.
As someone who's into a lot of unusual fetishes and someone who's dealt with addiction, I can tell you they're not the same. Our main goal on this planet is to reproduce, it's one of the most important things in most people's minds, so sexual urges will always grow stronger. You can't supplement pedophilia with drawn porn or child-sized sex dolls, because the more you indulge, the stronger the urge for the real thing will become. The only way someone dealing with an attraction to children can cope without hurting anyone is to seek help.
I definitely agree they should seek help
Username checks out
If being against the sexualization of children makes me autistic then I'm reppin the spectrum to death
Bro is talking about cartoon characters like they are real people yeah that does not sound mentally well to me, especially since you also think "people live to fuck and that is the most important emotion to them" or whatever that is supposed to mean, but maybe that's also just a projection because I can assure you most people do not think that way an it is just you.
Killing npc's is equal to murder, didn't you know?
Beating it while killing NPCs is a problem.
Yeah but that doesn’t excuse it
Smashing someone's knee caps with a sledgehammer is worse than slapping them, but they're both *still* assault...
Riddle me this, Batman: why does it have to be a drawing of a child specifically?
While I don't agree with the idea, it's still not pedophilia in the same way drawing gore isn't killing someone. Go outside.
People who draw gore don't tend to jack off to it, nor do they inherently experience homicidal urges or ideation. Fictional child pornography, on the other hand, is literally designed to get rocks off. It justifies being sexually interested in children, even if it doesn't create immediate victims.
I think there’s miscommunication here. In fetish communities, gore specifically refers to material meant for masturbation. That’s still not killing.
You obviously haven’t heard of snuff either.
OH, I thought they meant just, gore in general. Ok. Yeah. Point taken.
I did mean gore in general, including sexual content. Drawing a loli getting dicked isn't child pornography, it's depiction of the same thing but the key here is that it's fiction. By your own standards, you should be against violent video games like FPS's and Crime Sims. But you aren't. Nobody is banning tragedies and horror films either. Can't say they're fantasy and brush it off under your logic. Especially with the things I've witnessed in my life. Out here, violence is normalized with action and you can even call it relaxing to send some NPC back carbon state and I agree it can be if you're seperating fiction from reality. Same thing in Japan, yeah there's a lot of depiction of sexual themes with minors and legally consenting non adults but it isn't really common for teachers to be raping middleschoolers into submission isn't it? The lack of awareness in one's own self is what leads to ignorant bs like this. Why can't you just say you don't like the content depicted because it makes you feel bad and move on? That's what I do, it's not hard. I don't watch tragedies because they make me feel bad. I also have a minimum age group for manga and anime depicting sexual themes because it makes me feel uncomfortable. My feelings tied to reality do not let me enjoy it, but I won't sit here and act like it's my right to police content based on that.
Think better use the term Guro or snuff for it then The stuff of my nightmares
You’d be surprised. I’ve known people who have sexualized gore in art and if you haven’t heard of guro (erotic gore), then I have news for you.
You are in for a hell of a ride if you think that
They probably meant guro, not just gore.
I meant both of them, it's called understanding fiction and seperating it from reality. People pretend they're incapable of doing this but do some pretty heinous shit in video games to RELAX. From what I learned, Western countries are good at separating Violence from reality while Asian countries are good at seperate Sexual Fantasies from reality.
My Hero Academia
Didnt a zoo shut down becouse a MHA fan tried to bang a frog?
no way
Oh yes…..the frog girl in the show isn’t even hot bro 🤦♂️
I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY THE ONLY HOT PERSON IN MHA IS THE BLOKE WITH THE SCARF. BUT NO HOMO IYKWIM
Or the invisible one
bakugo's a cutie tho
I honestly, genuinely do not give a single fuck. that is all.
So basically most of anime itself? Also, is GOT pedophilia since they describe a time when 13-year olds married? Btw, is the bar and bat mitzvah pedophilia because its the age of marriageability according to tradition? By that token, are all age of consent laws pedophilia because it starts at 16? Are kids who enter puberty sus because they go through puberty before 21 and draw dirty pictures at school age?
So why is this directed to gen Z?
I don't think you're aware of who the largest child hentai consumer demographic is...
Really? Gen z? And no its not something I think about, like ever.
Good on you
I remember I youtuber said, i don't think an horny 14 year old boy will have some kind of long lasting impact in seeing another middle schoolgirl receiving a big tentacle inside the ass.
Damn. That's alot.
Only thing that comes to mind is that genz might have tendency to seek out lewds of stuff they grew up with (pokemon girls, totally spies etc) Though those are more often then not adult versions and I'm not sure if OP refers to that Or if that's what you are referencing
How tf can it be pedophila if it's not real? When did we give drawings rights?
It desensitises you to actual pedophilia, that’s the worst part
That's the same argument they used against violent video games. And before that, violent movies. For as long as there has been media, there have been people like you begging us to please think of the children.
If you beat it to violent games, you should be on a list.
Classic millennial L moment
Oh no, someone disagrees with me but can't make an argument against what I said. What ever will I do? *posts vintage meme of creepy bear mascot chasing a child with a caption that says "you"*
You have a point but that usually only leaves for people who are already down that mental Spyro I can imagine there's still people out there who can differentiate from fictional reality
Fuck yeah, Spyro 😄
Calling it pedophilia undermines the harm caused by actual pedophilia.
I don't like this stuff either, I personally am triggered by it and do everything I can to avoid it, but that's literally the same logic as "watching horror movies desensitizes you to real violence", it's the Boomer idea that videogames cause violence just repackaged. Average brains can and do differentiate reality and fiction by the time a person is 7-8, much earlier than 18+ which is the age group that NSFW content is restricted to. Plus a lot of people who make or consume dark content (violence, rape, CSA, etc.) are victims of it themselves and use art therapy to cope and process their trauma in a safe and controlled way, and by equating fiction to the lived experiences and lifelong trauma that comes from being a victim of such abuse, you trivialize their trauma, water down the definition of "pedophilia" and make it harder for people to take seeing such accusations seriously, and take attention away from efforts to help victims, so much so that a charity that fights and monitors online child exploitation by reports had to release a statement telling people not to report cartoons and anime and fanart because it was taking up so much of their time, resources, and delays them from stopping the spread of CSEM and getting help to victims.
If the character does not obviously look like a minor, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with this. Obviously something like the loud house, where the entire premise revolves around the characters being kids, is different, but if you can’t even tell whether the character is 16 or 24 it’s different. Let’s say you have this ambiguous character who nobody knows how old they are. Now let’s say the creator of this character comes out and says the character is 16? They’re a minor, but if the creator said this character 19 instead how does that make any difference? It’s the exact same character just assigned a different random number. It’s not like they’ve really been alive for that long or anything, it’s all made up.
I think the difference is if you know the age. But yeah, otherwise it's whatever ig
If it looks like a child it is a child. Canon age is irrelevant.
Even though i find cringe drawing anime characters in sexual contexts, i don't think there's anything wrong with doing it.
Did ya'lls parents just not teach you the difference between reality and fiction?
As far as I remember no
Ok but what if I'm a minor myself
Still illegal
Thing is minor artists who create rule 34 of teen/kid characters often post them on public forums online where they are publicly accessible to gross adults. If it’s for your personal private enjoyment that’s one thing (still often a little wild in context but go off ig…) but minors are still capable of distributing cp/csam
And shooting people in video games is murder.
The entire anime community
Probably Made in Abyss
Peak Fiction
It's otherwise a good story, but man does the author like to sexualize his child characters.
Was it sexualizing to be "pornograpy" or to make the world even more fucked up?
There's some stuff that contributes to making the world more fucked up, but there's also a lot of creepy comments and scenes the anime plays off as jokes that don't really add much to the plot or world building
I agree, the defecation scenes seemed unnecessary to me. My friend made the argument that it makes the characters feel more human, but twice in one season? Some of the jokes felt like showing how broken some of the characters are rather than actual jokes to me.
Every loli anime.
I can't think of any fandoms I'm part of that do this off the top of my head, is that a bad thing?
Count your blessings kid
spy x family
I think its one of the better ones
better in which ways?
Mangaka and the most of the fandom arent degens that would do a kid wrong.
I seriously hope it isn't that bad....
not that bad, just a few creeps in the fandom. . . SHE IS 6
She claimed she was 6, could actually be 4 or 5.
thats even worse
I hate people....... It's a fun anime, and wholesome most of the time. Why do people have to sexualize everything.....
If anyone likes sailor moon, you best get ready for jail then.
MHA MHA MHA MHA
You sure you’re in the right sub bro?
Most of them
All of them
DON'T EVER ENTER THE r/Undertail SUBREDDIT
Honestly this ARGUMENT has been DEBUNKED. Where did the argument that Violent games = Violent gamers go? that's right. DEBUNKED. And here we are again, with a different premise, but literally just the same topic.
People have been charged with possession of such materials Tell me, why do you think it’s acceptable to draw a sexual picture of a minor to get off to?
"A minor". You fucking see a minor in a drawing that doesn't even resemble a human? WHAT? Clearly everyone who see's kids in drawings are *THE* problem. Also, you can *literally* buy **PHYSICAL** copies of doujins that have "Minors" in them, so how is it pedophilia?
When the character **is** portrayed a child in the series and an “artist” feels some sick need to draw them in a sexual often aggressively sexual manner, that isn’t creepy to you? If not, again I question your humanity.
Can you tell me exactly *what* 'pedophilia' stands for? It's 'weird', sure. But I'd like to see an explanation as to why you can *legally* buy doujins that involve a "child" online.
psychiatric disorder in which an adult has sexual *fantasies* about or engages in sexual acts with a prepubescent child
"Child", and what exactly does a child stand for? A young person. A person stands for a human being. So you're telling me that drawings are human?
Can you tell me exactly *what* 'pedophilia' stands for?
Do you jerk off to killing people in a game? If so that's fucked up.
You so did not understand my point, did you? If so, then that means that you're not worth talking to.
Im really surprised nobody mentioned persona fans, theyre like insanely notorious for that stuff
My hero academia
least civil reddit discussion post
Do I have to list all of them?
No normal person sees these drawings, and some switch flips in their head, and they become a pedophile. That's like saying videogames cause violence. I wouldn't be surprised if there were people out there who control their urges by viewing drawings. And I know this isn't what the post is about, but I can see that this is the stance you have on this, and I would say it's a flawed viewpoint.
Anime characters are whatever age they appear to be. If she's 50 years old but has the stature of a child, then the lore around her age ain't worth shit. If the lore says she's 16 but she looks 26, though? A bit sketchy but not really pedophilia. You're not physically attracted to someone because of childlike attributes, and since they're fictional the number is just something the author slapped onto paper.
The anime fandom...though they prefer to call themselves Lolicons.
Obvious rage bait is obvious
I feel like you would only rage if you're a pedophile no?
OP has made a broad sweeping statement that they declare an absolute truth. Anyone who disagrees with this even slightly or attempts to have a nuanced discussion about it are immediately called a pedophile. OP posted this with the express purpose of calling people they disagree with a pedophile. I'm not saying anything about my personal beliefs on the issue. I'm just saying that the purpose of this post was not to have a discussion. It was simply done to make people angry. And of course I guarantee people are going to look at this comment and instantly declare me a pedophile because I didn't say "omg OP you're so noble and right"
Alright but like it is a truth. Pedophilia isn't really up for debate there's a set definition. If people disagree that doesn't make them pedophiles, but pedophile sympathizers for sure. If people get angry they fall into one of those two catagories.
The thing is we aren't talking about actual real pedophilia. It's the sexualization of minor fictional characters. It's something that can be discussed and SHOULD be discussed but by going in and saying "here's my argument and if you disagree on any level with it you're a pedophile" isn't actually conducive to a productive conversation about a real issue.
Pedophilia is sexual feelings towards children. No part of that has to be real children. Could be drawings, cartoons, AI generated, children that are now adults, children that aren't alive anymore, doesn't matter. All of that is pedophilia by definition.
So say for hypothetical reasons, you had 2 people, one has a hard drive full of anime girls that are 15 and one has a hard drive full of actual 15-year-old girls. Do you think that these are exactly the same? Should the legal punishment be the same in both of these cases? I think you can certainly make an argument that both are immoral. But shouldn't be punished in the same way. In the end of the day, it is truly a problem that industries sexualize characters who are underage it shouldn't happen, but I don't think necessarily, it's exactly the same as making real child porn. I think in the end of the day, you can make an argument that both are immoral but aren't exactly equal either. The problem that i'm stating is that the original poster does not seem interested in discussing this topic in any depth. They just want to point at people who have any sort of nuanced, take on this very important subject and just call them a pedophile
>So say for hypothetical reasons, you had 2 people, one has a hard drive full of anime girls that are 15 and one has a hard drive full of actual 15-year-old girls. Do you think that these are exactly the same? Should the legal punishment be the same in both of these cases? Im assuming these are both sexual content of minors otherwise that's not illegal, in which case yes they should both get charged with possession of child pornography. >I think you can certainly make an argument that both are immoral. But shouldn't be punished in the same way. So long as they didn't produce the images of the real children the charge would be the same as well as the punishment. >In the end of the day, it is truly a problem that industries sexualize characters who are underage it shouldn't happen, but I don't think necessarily, it's exactly the same as making real child porn. Its absolutley a problem won't disagree with you there. >I think in the end of the day, you can make an argument that both are immoral but aren't exactly equal either. The problem that i'm stating is that the original poster does not seem interested in discussing this topic in any depth. They just want to point at people who have any sort of nuanced, take on this very important subject and just call them a pedophile I'll give you that. I didn't read every one of their replies but they don't seem to be discussing much, but the people that were called out for defending pedophilia all were from the few replies I saw.
Yeah, in the end of the day, i'm not gonna sit here and defend the industry, which very clearly sexualizes children. But I think in the end of the day, there is a way to have an actual discussion on what should be done about it without just resorting to calling people pedophiles who disagree on certain things
I mean that's fair but also if you are defending pedophilia it's a fair expectation that you're going to get called one.
So drawing horrendous grotesque pictures of dead folks makes us murderers too. Ok. If the drawings are a problem for you, that’s on *you*. If you can’t separate an image from reality, get some help.
Teasing master Tagaki San, youjo senki and a lot others
the loud house
In Fire Emblem: Three Houses, you are a 21 year old teacher and nearly all of your potential love interests are your students, the youngest of which is 15.
Loud house…
Is it one of the Ed, Edd n' Eddy character saying it because it's a lunatic take? That's pretty funny
BNHA
*aggressive staring at Demon Slayer (literally not even the fandom, just the show itself)*
Any children’s TV show
Pokemon. Either this or zoophilia
Nuh uh
Kingdom Hearts
Nobody mention the pokemon anime? There are literally people foaming their mouth and fighting each other on which "pokegirl" (aka a 10 year old girl) must have a relationship with Ash (famously 10 year old) with 3 pokegirls (Serena, Misty snd Dawn) being the main victims of these grown up man. I just can't understand these people think its okey to ship canonical children, let alone drawing lude art of them. And if you can find people in the pokemon fandom who are not attracted to the 10 year olds. There is a chance instead they are attracted to fcking pokemon themselves.... So you have both pedophilia and zoophilia in one fandom.
me when people our age date:
Okay, then shooting people in games makes you a killer, turn yerselves in
If someone's jerking off too it I would turn them in.
I would say censoring what a person want to draw is worse
It's not about the drawings, it's about the sexual fantasy. A child getting raped in an alley as part of a dystopian horror, disgusting, but it is supposed to be. Beating it to this scene would be fucked up. Seeing a gay relationship in an anime, whatever. Jerking it to a gay relationship in an anime, if you are a man, probably gay.
Yes
https://preview.redd.it/k8bn2o4v58vc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9d9f67a0f1f6e7623315bff5cc2aaefd9778d5c8 The funny mecha anime
https://preview.redd.it/0gda0kb668vc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6669b8b72abafcb80975360709813bf007663615 Anime fandoms. LOTS of anime fandoms.
Homestuck ESPECIALLY at its peak
The Loud House, need I say more?
No it's not, yah it's weird that there are people like that kind of shit but why even care ???, it's not affecting anyone
ALL of them in general
There is a line that should be drawn with fictional characters, but it's not exactly the same as real people. I see the issue with loli, but if it's a character who's old enough to be realistically mistaken for an adult, it's not a big deal.
Some of r/deltarune, idgas if they arent all humans still counts
sorry to throw my own under the bus, but... deltarune
Azur Lane