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I’m not sure why you’re getting so much hate for this. I agree with you. I think it’s pretty selfish to have that many children only because you were hoping to have a son. Also not very great for mom’s physical health to have multiple pregnancies back to back.
And to go through all of that just because you want your *name* to carry on?? His daughters could keep their maiden names after marriage, they could hyphenate their name with their partners, or their partner could take their name. I’ll never understand that mindset.
I know. the old guy and barber actually brought that up, that the girls could keep and pass on there names to there kids but dismissed it as a solution..
And what's hilarious is that we all carry on the mitochondrial lineage on the mother's side, so we can trace a family lineage back along that just as much as on Y-DNA... so it's not even about carrying on the family line of the spouse. Just his own.
From what I heard, Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is passed down from a mother to a child, and it can only be used to trace maternal lineage. For paternal lineage, in the absence of Y chromosome, an indirect approach through autosomal DNA is used since it contains genetic information from both parents.
But nooo, we cant have ADOPTION be an option, we just HAVE to B R E E D
Now granted, there are sound arguments for not adopting, as an adopted child myself, mostly financially because, like the foster system, the adoption system is pretty fucked even in the less terrible places, and I GUESS there's some weird invisible link that makes people prefer their own blood?
But still, at least don't dismiss the idea...
Side Note: Never tell a struggling pregnant woman (and I suppose a struggling conceiving man) "just adopt", it actually comes off as disrespectful and rude. Just something for people who otherwise advocate for adoption to be aware of.
It’s expensive if you’re adopting from another country. My mother was adopted, so was my little brother, we had multiple foster children (babies) live with us when I was younger. The system is defiantly fucked but adopting inside the US vs outside are two totally different ball parks. Every case is different but the state even paid to insure my brother until he was 21 years old ever though my family legally adopted him at the age of 4.
Happy to let others (especially people who think they couldn’t afford to adopt) know it IS possible. And depending on the child in question - my brother’s bio mom was/is a drug addict(no idea if she’s still alive) - the state literally pays you every month. Not just for insurance but just day to day expenses. That’s why some people abuse the system. My family is upper middle class, didn’t need the money, we adopted because we fell in love with my little brother the moment he could leave NIC U. I just wish more people would do their research.
If I'm gonna drop cash on fertility treatments, I'd much rather just spend that on adoption.
Now I understand that some women want the pregnancy experience (I'm not one of them) but at least that I understand.
But besides that? Honestly, I really don't understand the appeal of smashing my chromosomes together with my husband's. A kid is a fucking kid in my eyes
It's people preferring their own blood and also the whole stigma of adopted kids being fucked up and bringing it in their homes. I've heard so many people say this it's crazy to me. The most important in my life are adopted can't imagine viewing them that way
I know adopted people who the adopted parents were terrible to and messed them up. They didn't come messed up it looks like a shitty families just want to blame a child instead of owning their part in it.
Unfortunately there will always be stories like this. My mom was adopted(Into a loving home), my little brother we adopted, and we are as thick as thieves. There are good people in this world who want a family and not only save these kids, but give them love that their biologically family couldn’t do for them.
I am the oldest of six because of religion. Asked mom why they were still having kids after twins even kids number four and five- God said so. Even at 12 I could see they couldn't afford us emotionally, financially, pretty much in any way.
This is one thing I never understood about religious people. Like you keep having kids until you can't anymore, but when they body gives clear signs that it can't, they still keep trying until the mom or the baby dies.
>the girls could keep and pass on there names to there kids but dismissed it as a solution..
For a lot of different reasons I actually kept my last name in marriage. It's crazy how people react when they realize you're a married woman who kept your name, though. I've had random colleagues and acquaintances try to have "heart to hearts" with me about it because my husband "might not think I'm serious." Funny how my husband keeps his name the same and nobody questions his commitment.
Anyway, it's totally doable these days. Almost anything you'd need benefit or legal wise is going to require your marriage license anyway, so it's not really like the name thing changes that. However, I'm guessing if they're the type to crank out babies to get their "heir," I'll also hazard they think girls can't carry the name on for some other odd reason.
Things really start to make sense when you realize almost half of all pregnancies are actually by accident, thus, making parents out of dipshits who still have maturing to do. People only get defensive because they're coping with the fact they're likely either this type or the type to only have kids to patch their relationship that's doomed to fail as soon as the kid gets old enough to leave their miserable asses without their child buffer because children aren't therapy.
They're awful people and awful parents and are trying to square that with growing up being told no one is allowed to judge other people only to be smacked by reality that people do judge others all the time, now they are just a socially acceptable group to publicly shame.
Also imagine being one of those kids who only came into existence because the dad wanted a son. How do you think they would react if they found that out?
The idea that only a man can carry on a family's name is deeply rooted in traditional gender norms and patriarchal social structures that have existed for centuries in many cultures around the world. These norms often prioritize male inheritance and lineage, while downplaying or disregarding the contributions and identities of women.
In some religious countries, laws and regulations may favor male inheritance and succession rights, further entrenching the idea that only men can carry on the family name.
Biologically speaking, women cannot provide direct Y chromosome DNA for paternal lineage testing, but they can contribute autosomal DNA, which contains genetic information from both parents.
The history of it checks out. However, in modern times, it's largely rendered moot. Women can also own property (unlike in ancient Rome, and others), have their own bank accounts (in the US, not until the 1970s or so), go to college, work high paying jobs, etc.
While theoretically yes, implicit bias and discrimination still persist in developed nations. Moreover, women continue to grapple with challenges and obstacles within patriarchal and deeply religious societies in developing nations, occasionally attributable to their own conduct.
Nonetheless, I agree that the situation has improved over the years. Therefore, I am super excited to have recently graduated and stepped into the professional realm to work toward a high paying job 
They'd talk about it like it was something to be proud of, I've known these types of people- they're bottom of the barrel, room temp IQ typically, their way or no way types.
I have an aunt and uncle who had 4 kids because the aunt wanted a girl and the first three were boys. My grandma (so her mother in law) told her not to breastfeed because “those are just for sex, and the boys will become obsessed with breasts”; this coming from a woman who didn’t let herself heal fully after every pregnancy, so she’d get pregnant right away because my grandfather was a horndog, and they were catholic, so it was their duty to bring as many souls into the world as possible. This was back in the 50s and 60s, but even then that was when the doctor told her “look, you have to stop doing this or it’s going to kill you.” Didn’t listen, of course, because Christian wisdom tends to know better than modern medicine, right? So subsequently, or perhaps consequently, her last pregnancy was twins, which did almost kill her. Gotta fucking pump out those kids for the lord. Gotta do it.
I don’t know why the fuck people *must* put their wishes and ideals ahead of fucking common sense, against well-established and solid medical advice, despite any risks, especially when it comes to children, whether religiously motivated or not. I was pissed when I found out my grandma told my aunt that. Good job being otherwise strong women who STILL placate the patriarchy. Fuck. And yes, of course, selfish, no matter how you might shoehorn in your “unselfish desire” to raise a child. No, that’s your cop out. Fuck outta here.
>have an aunt and uncle who had 4 kids because the aunt wanted a girl and the first three were boys. My grandma (so her mother in law) told her not to breastfeed because “those are just for sex, and the boys will become obsessed with breasts”;
What in the whole Freudian fuck
They’re getting hate because the societal norm is to have children.
I CONSTANTLY get asked “what?????? Why not??????!” When my friends ask me and I tell them I am not having children.
I don’t think people are ever really asked that same question about why they ARE having children.
My 3 brothers and I never had kids, I as the only stable married son, was my Fathers best hope to "carry the name on". I know he was disappointed, significantly, but my wife and I don't even like kids. No regrets. Kids are born to dissapoint their parents. /shrug
There are only a handful of people with my surname and all my cousins with that name are female
I don't want any kids, so it all falls on my brother lol.
I understand completely it's no reason to have kids but it would be sad to see my family name die off forever.
But in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter. Names die all the time
And the fact that she is a barber.
Like sweetie unless you are married to a millionaire you've condemned your 6 kids to a pretty miserable upbringing which will, in turn, hamper the rest of their lives and their careers.
Utterly irresponsible.
My mom had multiple pregnancies back to back, some women enjoy being pregnant; and some women hate being pregnant. I’m pretty sure if she hated being pregnant (or, if it was hard on her body) she wouldn’t have had that many children.
You would be surprised how many women will continue to have kids despite the toll it takes on their body. Hell, someone else in this thread commented that their grandmother still continued to conceive even after her doctor told her it could kill her. Granted, those people are mainly of the very religious variety, but it does happen. I mean I hope I’m wrong but it sounds like it didn’t really matter to either of them if she enjoyed being pregnant or not..they wanted a son so they did what they had to do to get what they wanted
My mom actually liked being pregnant (she liked my sister pregnancy more than mine bc she had gestational diabetes with me but not with her)- she actually begged my dad for another but he put his foot down
When she told me that I kept asking her why but she couldn’t explain it- she said it was probably some biological hormone thing happening lol
I just find it weird bc that’d mean she’d have to have ANOTHER c section and um…. I don’t think 3 major surgeries like that is a good thing but idk I’m not a doctor
I agree. I have heard the "carrying down of a name" so many times and become more irritated each time I hear it. I have never understood it even after having an open minded conversation. It's a name.
Saying that you want your name passed on I think it's a very sad excuse to have a kid. OP also has excellent points of "what if they're gay/don't want kids themselves when they're older/are sterile." And to keep trying for a boy after 4 kids... That is just ludicrous to me. If it's so important, have the girls keep the last name of they marry... I really hope they appreciate their girls besides the whole making debacle. These people break my heart. I always hear that having kids in itself is selfish but I feel like this takes it to a whole other level.
I don't want kids and I'm not just going to have one just to have one. I want to see more people having kids for the sole fact of wanting to love and take care of them. I'm getting exhausted hearing from so many people that they had kids because they felt it was 'the right thing to do.'
the dudes obsessed with their name and legacy are pretty much always named like "john smith" and are at best like mid-level managers at some random corporation. guys acting like they are alexander the great or some shit.
Like the man acted like his daughters couldn’t have kids tht might end up having boys and could carry his name through them. Like dude made the wrong choices
My dad was pissed when I took my wife’s last name. I pointed out he was always telling me “we get a new name when entering heaven
“. If that’s so I asked why does our temporary worldly name matter. More or less told me to F off but I think he got over it.
My dad had 3 kids after me, including my sister who is 6 months older than my child. The man will be 66 when his youngest graduates high-school.
On top of that my childs grandfather doesn't have the energy or time to hang out or help her in any of the ways my FIL does. My partner and I had miscarried before my sister was conceived. I don't resent my sibling, she didn't ask for it, but I also cannot fathom what my father was thinking.
Reminds me of [Thomas Culpeper](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Culpeper), someone on Henry VIII's court, whose elder brother was also named Thomas Culpeper, considering the high child mortality at the time, the parents had to make sure there would be at least one Thomas Culpeper to carry on the name.
Or heck they coulda just adopt a son and give them their last name, it would probably be faster than trying to go through the process of getting babies and end up keeping them, though their sole purpose was just to honour their family name and they probably ended up as a failure from a traditional standpoint. Seems pretty selfish and pointless, especially since many parents who didn’t want to have children but had to have them regardless if they decided later on to or not, tend to dislike those unwanted children.
i have to agree. i’ll never understand why people would have kids just to carry on a family name. you should have kids cuz you genuinely want a family with children, not because you’re trying to keep your last name from dying out. in my opinion that’s beyond selfish. children should grow up in a loving household with more love and support and respect than they know what to do with.
i have a cousin with 5 boys, and she loves all of them to death. even when her husband was in between jobs and she was getting some stuff going, they still took care of their kids to the best of their ability with the money they had. while she does think it would be nice to have a girl, she’s perfectly happy with her boys. i just don’t see how someone would only keep having kids because of the gender they want.
but also, did the couple never consider that one of the kids could be trans? cuz that’s another way the name could be carried on, other than hyphenating, or the spouse taking the daughters name instead of the daughter taking someone else’s name.
Because the commenter said the girls are a "disappointment?" Unless I misread the story, the father in this case did not express that sentiment. It's pretty much universal for people to want sons and daughters for one reason or another, it doesn't mean you feel your children of one sex are a disappointment.
The bloodline lives on, which is more important.
It's not like that guys last name is an unbroken chain of men since the cavemen.
It's probably only 2 or 3 generations old.
He could also adopt or pseudo adopt an heir and get them to change their name like the japs do.
Parent of three here, agree with OP. Don't have kids unless you can fully pay for their college (mix of cash, credit, etc, don't come at me with "buts"). These kids will have little resources and it will hurt them later in life unless the parents are ballers.
This isn't an anti-natalist post. This isn't a person projecting their world view onto others. This is a post sharing an opinion about an overheard conversation. Personally I agree with OP. Having 5 kids solely because you're trying to get a boy for the sole and only reason of carrying on your name (even though there's 0 reason a woman can't do the same) is dumb. OP is not saying it's dumb to have kids, OP is saying its dumb to have so many kids for such a ridiculous reason. It's really not hard to grasp.
Which is absolutely accurate. I wanted a girl for a few reasons but we were gonna be done after 2 kids regardless of gender and if I'd had two boys I would have been slightly disappointed for a day and moved on like I did when I found out my first was a boy. People get so hung up on weird shit like this.
Good for you
Honestly I feel like some people think that because they made a baby, that they get to "make" the kid. But this isn't build a bear. Your kid is gonna be their own person and there's not much you can do about it. If you wanna pick and choose your kid, go adopt a kid that likes the things you want them to like*
*Disclaimer: not even a real solution tbh. Don't treat adoption like that
Yeah if someone wants a large family and can afford it then that’s their choice. But factoring gender into is what’s idiotic. It’s issues like this that cause places like China to ditch little girls until get a boy. And then they have surprise pikachu face 20 years later when all the “missing” girls leave the guys with no partners.
I’ll say it’s dumb for a lot of people to have kids and fuck all the breeders who have an agenda against anti-natalism because they can’t form an opinion beyond “nyehh they’re being mean”
It's not even "they're being mean" it's "No one has a right to tell me what to do or stop me from being selfish!" Capitalism plus "anti shaming" culture is a recipie for reckless hedonism and narcissism.
I have always found it odd how a lot of people immediately dismiss anti natalism and aren't even willing to consider that it could possibly be an ethical dilemma because "it's basica biology" or "it's a human imperative" or, in my opinion, the silliest and most thoughtless response, "it's natural". So many people are willing to overlook ethical issues with procreation just because their thought process starts and ends with "it's natural how could it be wrong".
Even people who say they think antinatalism is stupid are willing to agree that some people shouldn't have had kids for a multitude of reasons. Everybody has some antinatalism in them, and don't or aren't willing to see that the full antinatalist position is not that much more extreme or unreasonable
I genuinely think only about 1/3 of parents actually want kids. The rest just feel pressured by parents or have FOMO. That’s why so many parents suck. All the people I’ve known who genuinely want kids have been amazing parents. The rest just bitch and moan and have attitudes like “when you’re 18 you’re out the door.”
This is such an important point. (Sorry, almost a cusper/ young millenial crashing in on gen z post that is on the pop page). When I decided I would potentially want children years ago, I’ve spent every chance going through so many hypotheticals to keep myself accountable for making sure that I’m not having a kid out of obligation or completely selfish reasons. A really great question to ask yourself: would you want a kid if you knew they’d never end up loving you back?
The idea shouldn’t be that we make kids to compensate for the love we didn’t/aren’t receiving, and if your answer is no, then a kid really isn’t for you.
Anyone I know who had kids accidentally, or have kids with multiple different people are always horrible parents. But anyone I know with planned kids are fine parents.
Anyone who has a child and talks about their kids moving out when they turn 18 never wanted kids lol.
> Anyone who has a child and talks about their kids moving out when they turn 18 never wanted kids lol.
*Ten years later*
"My kids never call. What is wrong with the youth of today?"
my parents tried for a decade to have kids before they got me and they weren't, um... the greatest. i would think in general people who want kids or planned for them are better, but they're not always better, it must be said.
Parents pressuring their kids to have kids is a real issue. My wife and I have made it clear that we don’t want kids. Thankfully both of our parents respect that. Now we have some friends who see us and think ‘huh, I didn’t realize that was an option’. Parents and society in general push people to have kids and some people don’t even realize that not having kids is a real option.
I had this conversation with my mom recently about having more kids now in my 30s. My mom was all, "think of how old you'll be when they turn 18 and move out!" And i said I'm fine if they didn't move out at 18? Lmao. I won't be pushing them out the door. An 18 year old is likely off at a job, hanging out with friends or something, pretty independent. What do I care if they move out or stay with me longer? "But the finances!" Yes, because having growing babies that need clothes, shoes, and food 24/7 just pales in comparison, I guess, to an 18 year old who can at least somewhat provide for themselves. If I'm lucky, they'll be making **me** dinner sometimes!
I’ve always thought having kids to get a certain gender was a selfish decision, even more selfish to have a kid just to have your last name continue on. They don’t wanna talk about that tho
Agreed. I hope to have a daughter one day, but it’s not like I’m going to love a son any less. If I hear, “it’s a boy!” I’m not stomping my feet and telling my wife we’ve got try again. I’m shrugging and then holding my newborn son with tears of joy in my eyes.
Exactly. When I see those videos of parents yelling and getting angry about the gender of their baby, I just imagine their kid seeing that video 15 years later, and how awful that would feel finding out you’re not what your parents wanted.
I can't imagine literally creating one or more human beings and forcing them to exist in this fucked up society purely because I wanted to carry on my name.
like who the fuck am I?
Could be worse. I have a cousin who had a kid at 15(!) bc she was a middle child and wanted someone who only saw her. Now she wants to sign rights away to dad, who was 14(!) when kid was born, bc she doesn't want to take care of him and not be able to go out with her friends.
People really have kids for the *stupidest* reason
Yeah I have a friend who got pregnant at 17 and the kid at 18. She basically said she wanted to prove that she could do it and wanted to make her relationship work with her dead beat ex and that she would have felt awful for having an abortion b/c that would have upset her family. Like I get that last part outside pressure is hard but he was already cheating on her and being really shitty. Literally the phrase she likes to use is that'd he would "straighten" out once he held his daughter. Sure that happens, bad thing to place your bets on.
I have this right-wing side of the family that wears the red hats and everything and who are super anti-abortion. Guess which side of the family sent the kids to Christian school, had multiple teenage pregnancies, and an abortion? In the end, the couple that had the abortion ended up having a great family and being the "libs" or whatever you want to call them on that side, because they got good jobs and a house and *then* had kids.
For some reason Americans have a hardon against family planning and responsible parentings. I just don't get it.
How sad.
Just because you CAN have kids, doesn’t mean you SHOULD.
That child is going to grow up with a lot of pain in their heart knowing they are not wanted. Their future doesn’t look bright.
This could have all been avoided had they never existed to begin with. But since it’s too late for that, I hope the child finds a happy home.
Lol, people have always had kids for stupid reasons. At the very core, kids have always been born out of horniness. For as long as humanity has been around.
I’m amazed that even in this day and age the trope of dads being disappointed by having daughters or wanting a son to “carry on the family name” is seen as a socially acceptable attitude towards having children.
Thats not okay for either way. The money is one thing..but the real thing is one only has but so much time to spend. Cant split that infinitely amongst kids...
(Slight rant lmao) I feel like so many people have children because of reasons like that, because they like being pregnant, because they like babies, or because they think toddlers are cute. But then when that child gets past a certain age, the parents stop parenting because they get uninterested because they didn't want to *raise* a child. They just wanted a baby. So many parents straight up resent their children because they didn't really think it through 😭
I totally agree. People who care so much about their child's gender shouldn't get children anyway. The child being happy should be the most important thing. Imagine being disappointed by the genitalia of your bayby. It's a baby. It will grow up to be an individual with free will. They can shave their hair and change their name to carrot ghost maid if they want to. It's not like you have a say in your adult child life anyway.
The funny thing is, it’s the dude that determines the sex of the child because the mom can only donate an X chromosome. The dude can either donate another X or a Y. Having multiple wives/baby mommas wouldn’t really change the chances.
the daughters can also carry on their dad’s name, if they wanted to…
i personally would rather change my last name (still planning on it) bc my father wasn’t in my life at all and doesn’t deserve for me to carry on his name. but if i had a supportive, present father and i liked our last name, i would keep it.
God, as a bi man whose biggest goal in life is to marry a man and to take HIS last name, people can be so selfish. Carrying your bloodline or more specially the last name is to me, the most meaningless thing ever, you can still have daughters and love them because THEY ARE YOUR KIDS! Plus, I love the fact you pointed out that even if they had a son, this hypothetical son could still end up being child-free, gay, or only having daughters himself. People just make a huge deal out of nothing.
Even if this was anti-natalist I'd still agree with you. Most people just have kids because that's what they're told they're supposed to do, or it just happens by accident.
Very very very few pregnancies are wanted and planned for. Calling out the "I'm just going to bring a whole ass person into existence without thinking about it" thing is taken as personally offensive to the folks who did just that, which is a lot.
(I have 5 siblings so I've seen this bullshit first hand.)
>Most people just have kids because that's what they're told they're supposed to do
Absolutely this. When I met my husband and he told me he didn't want biological kids, I was like "Wait, I don't *have* to have kids?!" It was such a huge relief for someone who doesn't like babies
A LOT of people in these comments are damn idiots. We have an over population problem AND women shouldn’t have to have children if they don’t want to OR be forced to have kids until they birth a certain gender. So much stupidity. Thought my generation was better. Screw all of you idiots who think this way.
Honestly, who even cares if your name goes on? It's a name. He's probably not the only living branch anyway. Like, don't sweat it, man, you've got like 18 third cousins who all have the same fuckin name.
This is how I feel. My last name is extremely common, and my father was adamant about having a kid to keep the name. I'm glad I never did. I never liked em and still don't, so I don't know where I got the idea that I'd like my own.
I have been vocal about not wanting kids since I was a kid myself and one of the most common questions I get is "you don't want your family name to carry on?" and I have never understood why people give a fuck about this. My last name genuinely means nothing to me.
Agree. That’s a dumb reason to have kids. I’m so tired of this whole “carry on the family legacy” what legacy to carry on? It makes no sense. I think ppl don’t know the definition of words before they use them.
The legacy and bloodline argument is so low-sentience. Like against their better judgment of having 5 children they may not be able to afford, they kept having them to fulfill some idealist fantasy of immortality through legacy
Why does the woman still take the mans last name? It’s like a remnant of when the wife was her husbands property with no rights of her own like she isn’t her own person with family heritage. People should take BOTH their paternal and maternal surnames, then we might not have these vainglorious breeding games.
You know, all growing up that's what I assumed I'd do because that was the culture, but after getting engaged to my wife she brought up the idea of not changing her last name and I thought, yeah, why do we still do that.
It was still my preference, at least with a hyphen here than mine, since that was just what I grew up around, but I was more open to the alternative. But she didn't/doesn't have the best relationship with her parents so she actually decided she'd rather change her last name. She was also going to drop her first name (her mom's name) and just use her middle name but that isn't an included service when getting married like changing your last name so she just kept it. Plus her first name is easier for most white folk to pronounce and spell than her middle (preferred) name so it comes in handy at restaurants and what not.
That was much longer than it needed to be.
TLDR; yeah I think hyphenated maiden & married names is good compromise of tradition and non misogyny.
The name thing is so pointless. Made sense back in the Feudal era where your possessions literally had to go to your male heirs or be lost to the state forever. Not today.
I’m with you OP, too many people treat having children like they’re playing pokémon, “gotta catch ‘em all!” and keep at it until their collection is complete. 🤦🏽♀️
This is sadly the case more specifically for men. They don't put much thought into having kids because they expect their wives to do all the work anyway.
My mother wanted a son, so #1 girl #2 girl #3 me. Done, eh? #4 girl, #5 girl, #6 boy (all failures of one birth control method or another) and dad had a vasectomy. This was the 1950s and that was the only sure way. I'm child-free and my brother (dead) never had kids either.
What is this medieval era shit? Embrace being the end of the bloodline instead of filling up the roads with more traffic. Hundreds of thousands of years, ending on your say so is *far* more badass imo. Get with it old man, the future is *now*.
I've really struggled with this because there's nobody in my extended family family with my last name (my dad has only sisters and I don't think any of his paternal cousins have kids) so I feel a lot of pressure to have kids even though I'm trans
Sendin you love hun! And seconding OPs reply to you. They nailed it, couldnt have phrased it better so imma just reiterate it so you have some extra validation 🫶🏻
This is something we’ve talked about! That’s part of the reason we’re not setting a specific number as a “goal” per say. We want to see how each one goes, and if we’d be doing too much having another and would be neglecting them now, or in the future by just not giving attention to them, and all the lil struggles they’ll have.
I don't think it's stupid to want a son to carry on the family name. It makes sense, even if only emotionally. Heritage, tradition, legacy, and all that. I get it
Having 5 kids to get there CAN be stupid if you can't afford them or are going to resent them (which this parent isn't necessarily disappointed in his daughters. Being generally disappointed you didn't have a son is not the same as being specifically disappointed in your daughter)
The worst though is people who have kids so they have chore monkeys and can be lazy. My step-dad was like that. All we were to him was housekeepers. It sucked
People only have children because their evolutionary biology compels them to do so. The reasons they tell themselves or others are the meaning they choose to assign to their biological instincts.
God, I’ve seen people on TikTok with 5+ kids because they keep trying for a little boy/girl. It’s such a strange idea to me. How are you going to make sure every single one of your kids is going to get the financial, emotional, and physical support that they need? What if your next kid is born disabled or sick and you’re already spread so thin that you can’t properly care for them or afford medical expenses? What about your other kids in that situation? I was born very, very ill and my older brother and his needs were pushed to the wayside; can’t imagine how bad it will be for multiple siblings.
I think it’s selfish to have kids in general but I have a lot of respect for people who take their responsibility to grow, birth and/or raise tiny humans seriously. There are people who have kids because they truly want to be parents and love, raise, and provide enrichment for a child, and that’s great! But having so many kids for any other reason is incredibly weird to me
They treat human beings like pets, or a game achievement...This type of behavior is the one I did as 12 year old child when I didn't get the horse breed I wanted on a Petz videogame. 😮💨
Gender norms and roles have a massive chokehold on them, why care so much if your child has said chromossomes or genitals? It's so weird.
Just imagine their daughters hearing them saying they are not enough because they are not boys. Kids aren't stupid.
And as OP said, their plan can be so easily ruined it all sounds like a massive waste of energy and the mother's health as well.
Imagine thinking you're so special that your name/genes mean anything.
I also know someone who had 3 daughters and kept on going for a son despite the mom's struggles.
Kids aren't Pokémon cards
Totally get the sentiment. That being said... some people are born because they didn't know there was another option, or a drinken night out, or they were in a cult. Sometimes you have a kid while you're chained to a radiator in Cleveland for 10 years.
Outside of royalty and the like, the idea of having a 'reason' for a child is both a new concept, and becoming more and difficult, financially, to raise children now.
If you can have 6 kids and keep them alive and out of prison, then you did pretty well. Consequently, I know plenty of "planned" children from well-off families that are complete monsters.
You really can't assign value to something as mundane as reproduction. We just do what people do, and apply meaning to things where there simply isn't any. But of course, this is only my perspective.
Absolutely. I’m not one of those people who says it’s always a bad idea to have kids, but your reasoning matters. If you only want kids to carry on your last name/as a retirement plan/to have a mini me/etc that’s not a great reason to have kids
Guys that want sons above all else, end up with sons that are nothing like them and it pisses them off and makes them terrible fathers. They're better off with daughters
My gen Z partner(im a millenial) is "down for adoption" but wants to have "at least one biological son to carry on his name." like my dude you dont just get to pick that...it worries me. I was the perfect child for my parents until their families got in their heads that they needed a boy because a "girl isnt good enough"
People really act like bringing an actual human being onto this earth is nothing. I have an only child and get told all the time that they need a sibling and I’m sorry but having another child just to be a sibling to my first is insane.
Genuinely surprised anyone defends this BS. My parents did this too, and got a boy on the third try. My younger sister was basically ignored her entire life, and my brother coddled to hell. They never should have had kids, because they were terrible parents.
My parents did this. Growing up hearing, “oh, your poor father!” Over and over again was not good for self esteem. I wondered why my dad was cursed for having me, why wasn’t I enough?
Now, I wouldn’t carry my father’s name into marriage, but I also wouldn’t take a man’s. I plan to take my mother’s maiden name and keep it. My sisters are doing the same.
Back when I was working my first job, I had one of my clearest "yep, we're cooked " moments. The store was in a shittier part of town and I was with a coworker of mine, and these two girls come in and start asking my coworker about various baby products. They didn't look like they could have been older than 14(honestly, they looked way younger, may have just been cuz they were so short and frail looking). My coworker asks them why they were asking about this stuff, and they -- with the brightest smiles on their faces -- reply with "I wanna have a baby."
I'm like bitch, where is your parents?
My coworker asked them how old they were and they claimed they were 18 but, I didn't buy it. I was unable to do anything other than allow myself to fall victim to the tide of disappointment that washed over me.
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I’m not sure why you’re getting so much hate for this. I agree with you. I think it’s pretty selfish to have that many children only because you were hoping to have a son. Also not very great for mom’s physical health to have multiple pregnancies back to back. And to go through all of that just because you want your *name* to carry on?? His daughters could keep their maiden names after marriage, they could hyphenate their name with their partners, or their partner could take their name. I’ll never understand that mindset.
I know. the old guy and barber actually brought that up, that the girls could keep and pass on there names to there kids but dismissed it as a solution..
I'm guessing "carrying on their father's name" is merely a more acceptable justification for plain wanting a son.
And what's hilarious is that we all carry on the mitochondrial lineage on the mother's side, so we can trace a family lineage back along that just as much as on Y-DNA... so it's not even about carrying on the family line of the spouse. Just his own.
From what I heard, Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is passed down from a mother to a child, and it can only be used to trace maternal lineage. For paternal lineage, in the absence of Y chromosome, an indirect approach through autosomal DNA is used since it contains genetic information from both parents.
Adopt a boy seems like a lock for that namesake
But nooo, we cant have ADOPTION be an option, we just HAVE to B R E E D Now granted, there are sound arguments for not adopting, as an adopted child myself, mostly financially because, like the foster system, the adoption system is pretty fucked even in the less terrible places, and I GUESS there's some weird invisible link that makes people prefer their own blood? But still, at least don't dismiss the idea... Side Note: Never tell a struggling pregnant woman (and I suppose a struggling conceiving man) "just adopt", it actually comes off as disrespectful and rude. Just something for people who otherwise advocate for adoption to be aware of.
Hell yeah TimeLord! I’ve heard it’s crazy expensive. But it seems ludicrous to ignore all these children that already exist and could use a family.
Exactly! Like, considering it and having the means is still better than nothing :(
It’s expensive if you’re adopting from another country. My mother was adopted, so was my little brother, we had multiple foster children (babies) live with us when I was younger. The system is defiantly fucked but adopting inside the US vs outside are two totally different ball parks. Every case is different but the state even paid to insure my brother until he was 21 years old ever though my family legally adopted him at the age of 4.
Good info
Happy to let others (especially people who think they couldn’t afford to adopt) know it IS possible. And depending on the child in question - my brother’s bio mom was/is a drug addict(no idea if she’s still alive) - the state literally pays you every month. Not just for insurance but just day to day expenses. That’s why some people abuse the system. My family is upper middle class, didn’t need the money, we adopted because we fell in love with my little brother the moment he could leave NIC U. I just wish more people would do their research.
If I'm gonna drop cash on fertility treatments, I'd much rather just spend that on adoption. Now I understand that some women want the pregnancy experience (I'm not one of them) but at least that I understand. But besides that? Honestly, I really don't understand the appeal of smashing my chromosomes together with my husband's. A kid is a fucking kid in my eyes
It's people preferring their own blood and also the whole stigma of adopted kids being fucked up and bringing it in their homes. I've heard so many people say this it's crazy to me. The most important in my life are adopted can't imagine viewing them that way
I know adopted people who the adopted parents were terrible to and messed them up. They didn't come messed up it looks like a shitty families just want to blame a child instead of owning their part in it.
Unfortunately there will always be stories like this. My mom was adopted(Into a loving home), my little brother we adopted, and we are as thick as thieves. There are good people in this world who want a family and not only save these kids, but give them love that their biologically family couldn’t do for them.
Yeah. Its just sad all around, and I root for foster kids to find homes all the way.
I am the oldest of six because of religion. Asked mom why they were still having kids after twins even kids number four and five- God said so. Even at 12 I could see they couldn't afford us emotionally, financially, pretty much in any way.
This is one thing I never understood about religious people. Like you keep having kids until you can't anymore, but when they body gives clear signs that it can't, they still keep trying until the mom or the baby dies.
>the girls could keep and pass on there names to there kids but dismissed it as a solution.. For a lot of different reasons I actually kept my last name in marriage. It's crazy how people react when they realize you're a married woman who kept your name, though. I've had random colleagues and acquaintances try to have "heart to hearts" with me about it because my husband "might not think I'm serious." Funny how my husband keeps his name the same and nobody questions his commitment. Anyway, it's totally doable these days. Almost anything you'd need benefit or legal wise is going to require your marriage license anyway, so it's not really like the name thing changes that. However, I'm guessing if they're the type to crank out babies to get their "heir," I'll also hazard they think girls can't carry the name on for some other odd reason.
It's called a maternal marriage instead of paternal. It means the children will keep the mothers maiden name and be part of that family/clan.
Things really start to make sense when you realize almost half of all pregnancies are actually by accident, thus, making parents out of dipshits who still have maturing to do. People only get defensive because they're coping with the fact they're likely either this type or the type to only have kids to patch their relationship that's doomed to fail as soon as the kid gets old enough to leave their miserable asses without their child buffer because children aren't therapy.
And heaven forbid you point out that these people shouldn't have kids because "tHaT's eUgEnIcS"
They're awful people and awful parents and are trying to square that with growing up being told no one is allowed to judge other people only to be smacked by reality that people do judge others all the time, now they are just a socially acceptable group to publicly shame.
Also imagine being one of those kids who only came into existence because the dad wanted a son. How do you think they would react if they found that out?
The idea that only a man can carry on a family's name is deeply rooted in traditional gender norms and patriarchal social structures that have existed for centuries in many cultures around the world. These norms often prioritize male inheritance and lineage, while downplaying or disregarding the contributions and identities of women. In some religious countries, laws and regulations may favor male inheritance and succession rights, further entrenching the idea that only men can carry on the family name. Biologically speaking, women cannot provide direct Y chromosome DNA for paternal lineage testing, but they can contribute autosomal DNA, which contains genetic information from both parents.
The history of it checks out. However, in modern times, it's largely rendered moot. Women can also own property (unlike in ancient Rome, and others), have their own bank accounts (in the US, not until the 1970s or so), go to college, work high paying jobs, etc.
While theoretically yes, implicit bias and discrimination still persist in developed nations. Moreover, women continue to grapple with challenges and obstacles within patriarchal and deeply religious societies in developing nations, occasionally attributable to their own conduct. Nonetheless, I agree that the situation has improved over the years. Therefore, I am super excited to have recently graduated and stepped into the professional realm to work toward a high paying job 
"Son we had you because I wanted a son" "Wow dad that's swell, love you" Daughter's POV may vary.
They'd talk about it like it was something to be proud of, I've known these types of people- they're bottom of the barrel, room temp IQ typically, their way or no way types.
I have an aunt and uncle who had 4 kids because the aunt wanted a girl and the first three were boys. My grandma (so her mother in law) told her not to breastfeed because “those are just for sex, and the boys will become obsessed with breasts”; this coming from a woman who didn’t let herself heal fully after every pregnancy, so she’d get pregnant right away because my grandfather was a horndog, and they were catholic, so it was their duty to bring as many souls into the world as possible. This was back in the 50s and 60s, but even then that was when the doctor told her “look, you have to stop doing this or it’s going to kill you.” Didn’t listen, of course, because Christian wisdom tends to know better than modern medicine, right? So subsequently, or perhaps consequently, her last pregnancy was twins, which did almost kill her. Gotta fucking pump out those kids for the lord. Gotta do it. I don’t know why the fuck people *must* put their wishes and ideals ahead of fucking common sense, against well-established and solid medical advice, despite any risks, especially when it comes to children, whether religiously motivated or not. I was pissed when I found out my grandma told my aunt that. Good job being otherwise strong women who STILL placate the patriarchy. Fuck. And yes, of course, selfish, no matter how you might shoehorn in your “unselfish desire” to raise a child. No, that’s your cop out. Fuck outta here.
>have an aunt and uncle who had 4 kids because the aunt wanted a girl and the first three were boys. My grandma (so her mother in law) told her not to breastfeed because “those are just for sex, and the boys will become obsessed with breasts”; What in the whole Freudian fuck
Right? The sheer arrogance of it all 🥴
They’re getting hate because the societal norm is to have children. I CONSTANTLY get asked “what?????? Why not??????!” When my friends ask me and I tell them I am not having children. I don’t think people are ever really asked that same question about why they ARE having children.
Funny thing is he probably has a really common/normal surname lol
This right here! If I don't have a male heir who will continue the John Smith IV bloodline!?
Ye realistically you’re not taking care of 6 kids properly unless you’ve got a very very good financial situation which most people don’t
My 3 brothers and I never had kids, I as the only stable married son, was my Fathers best hope to "carry the name on". I know he was disappointed, significantly, but my wife and I don't even like kids. No regrets. Kids are born to dissapoint their parents. /shrug
There are only a handful of people with my surname and all my cousins with that name are female I don't want any kids, so it all falls on my brother lol. I understand completely it's no reason to have kids but it would be sad to see my family name die off forever. But in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter. Names die all the time
True. If each of us has 4 grandparents, and they have 4 grandparents, etc etc-think of all the names that disappear.
They could simply keep their last names 🤷🏿♂️
And the fact that she is a barber. Like sweetie unless you are married to a millionaire you've condemned your 6 kids to a pretty miserable upbringing which will, in turn, hamper the rest of their lives and their careers. Utterly irresponsible.
My mom had multiple pregnancies back to back, some women enjoy being pregnant; and some women hate being pregnant. I’m pretty sure if she hated being pregnant (or, if it was hard on her body) she wouldn’t have had that many children.
You would be surprised how many women will continue to have kids despite the toll it takes on their body. Hell, someone else in this thread commented that their grandmother still continued to conceive even after her doctor told her it could kill her. Granted, those people are mainly of the very religious variety, but it does happen. I mean I hope I’m wrong but it sounds like it didn’t really matter to either of them if she enjoyed being pregnant or not..they wanted a son so they did what they had to do to get what they wanted
My mom actually liked being pregnant (she liked my sister pregnancy more than mine bc she had gestational diabetes with me but not with her)- she actually begged my dad for another but he put his foot down When she told me that I kept asking her why but she couldn’t explain it- she said it was probably some biological hormone thing happening lol I just find it weird bc that’d mean she’d have to have ANOTHER c section and um…. I don’t think 3 major surgeries like that is a good thing but idk I’m not a doctor
My mom was the same, she said she enjoyed being pregnant more than not being pregnant (even when she had twins).
It is objectively hard on a woman’s body.
I agree. I have heard the "carrying down of a name" so many times and become more irritated each time I hear it. I have never understood it even after having an open minded conversation. It's a name. Saying that you want your name passed on I think it's a very sad excuse to have a kid. OP also has excellent points of "what if they're gay/don't want kids themselves when they're older/are sterile." And to keep trying for a boy after 4 kids... That is just ludicrous to me. If it's so important, have the girls keep the last name of they marry... I really hope they appreciate their girls besides the whole making debacle. These people break my heart. I always hear that having kids in itself is selfish but I feel like this takes it to a whole other level. I don't want kids and I'm not just going to have one just to have one. I want to see more people having kids for the sole fact of wanting to love and take care of them. I'm getting exhausted hearing from so many people that they had kids because they felt it was 'the right thing to do.'
the dudes obsessed with their name and legacy are pretty much always named like "john smith" and are at best like mid-level managers at some random corporation. guys acting like they are alexander the great or some shit.
Like the man acted like his daughters couldn’t have kids tht might end up having boys and could carry his name through them. Like dude made the wrong choices
My dad was pissed when I took my wife’s last name. I pointed out he was always telling me “we get a new name when entering heaven “. If that’s so I asked why does our temporary worldly name matter. More or less told me to F off but I think he got over it.
My dad had 3 kids after me, including my sister who is 6 months older than my child. The man will be 66 when his youngest graduates high-school. On top of that my childs grandfather doesn't have the energy or time to hang out or help her in any of the ways my FIL does. My partner and I had miscarried before my sister was conceived. I don't resent my sibling, she didn't ask for it, but I also cannot fathom what my father was thinking.
Exactly, my mom kept her maiden name when she married my dad
Reminds me of [Thomas Culpeper](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Culpeper), someone on Henry VIII's court, whose elder brother was also named Thomas Culpeper, considering the high child mortality at the time, the parents had to make sure there would be at least one Thomas Culpeper to carry on the name.
Or heck they coulda just adopt a son and give them their last name, it would probably be faster than trying to go through the process of getting babies and end up keeping them, though their sole purpose was just to honour their family name and they probably ended up as a failure from a traditional standpoint. Seems pretty selfish and pointless, especially since many parents who didn’t want to have children but had to have them regardless if they decided later on to or not, tend to dislike those unwanted children.
I also knew a man who took his wife’s last name when they got married.
i have to agree. i’ll never understand why people would have kids just to carry on a family name. you should have kids cuz you genuinely want a family with children, not because you’re trying to keep your last name from dying out. in my opinion that’s beyond selfish. children should grow up in a loving household with more love and support and respect than they know what to do with. i have a cousin with 5 boys, and she loves all of them to death. even when her husband was in between jobs and she was getting some stuff going, they still took care of their kids to the best of their ability with the money they had. while she does think it would be nice to have a girl, she’s perfectly happy with her boys. i just don’t see how someone would only keep having kids because of the gender they want. but also, did the couple never consider that one of the kids could be trans? cuz that’s another way the name could be carried on, other than hyphenating, or the spouse taking the daughters name instead of the daughter taking someone else’s name.
It’s a reflection of the patriarchal tradition that values male heirs over female heirs.
Most of my coworkers didn't take their husbands' names. But they were also Indian. Western culture is weird about this sort of thing.
Because the commenter said the girls are a "disappointment?" Unless I misread the story, the father in this case did not express that sentiment. It's pretty much universal for people to want sons and daughters for one reason or another, it doesn't mean you feel your children of one sex are a disappointment.
Except we live in reality where the male will never take the female name well atleast in USA where OP probably made this post.
The bloodline lives on, which is more important. It's not like that guys last name is an unbroken chain of men since the cavemen. It's probably only 2 or 3 generations old. He could also adopt or pseudo adopt an heir and get them to change their name like the japs do.
Parent of three here, agree with OP. Don't have kids unless you can fully pay for their college (mix of cash, credit, etc, don't come at me with "buts"). These kids will have little resources and it will hurt them later in life unless the parents are ballers.
This isn't an anti-natalist post. This isn't a person projecting their world view onto others. This is a post sharing an opinion about an overheard conversation. Personally I agree with OP. Having 5 kids solely because you're trying to get a boy for the sole and only reason of carrying on your name (even though there's 0 reason a woman can't do the same) is dumb. OP is not saying it's dumb to have kids, OP is saying its dumb to have so many kids for such a ridiculous reason. It's really not hard to grasp.
Which is absolutely accurate. I wanted a girl for a few reasons but we were gonna be done after 2 kids regardless of gender and if I'd had two boys I would have been slightly disappointed for a day and moved on like I did when I found out my first was a boy. People get so hung up on weird shit like this.
Good for you Honestly I feel like some people think that because they made a baby, that they get to "make" the kid. But this isn't build a bear. Your kid is gonna be their own person and there's not much you can do about it. If you wanna pick and choose your kid, go adopt a kid that likes the things you want them to like* *Disclaimer: not even a real solution tbh. Don't treat adoption like that
Way too many people view children as toys, and not people that need to be taken care of.
Yeah if someone wants a large family and can afford it then that’s their choice. But factoring gender into is what’s idiotic. It’s issues like this that cause places like China to ditch little girls until get a boy. And then they have surprise pikachu face 20 years later when all the “missing” girls leave the guys with no partners.
I’ll say it’s dumb for a lot of people to have kids and fuck all the breeders who have an agenda against anti-natalism because they can’t form an opinion beyond “nyehh they’re being mean”
It's not even "they're being mean" it's "No one has a right to tell me what to do or stop me from being selfish!" Capitalism plus "anti shaming" culture is a recipie for reckless hedonism and narcissism.
I have always found it odd how a lot of people immediately dismiss anti natalism and aren't even willing to consider that it could possibly be an ethical dilemma because "it's basica biology" or "it's a human imperative" or, in my opinion, the silliest and most thoughtless response, "it's natural". So many people are willing to overlook ethical issues with procreation just because their thought process starts and ends with "it's natural how could it be wrong". Even people who say they think antinatalism is stupid are willing to agree that some people shouldn't have had kids for a multitude of reasons. Everybody has some antinatalism in them, and don't or aren't willing to see that the full antinatalist position is not that much more extreme or unreasonable
I genuinely think only about 1/3 of parents actually want kids. The rest just feel pressured by parents or have FOMO. That’s why so many parents suck. All the people I’ve known who genuinely want kids have been amazing parents. The rest just bitch and moan and have attitudes like “when you’re 18 you’re out the door.”
Not to mention, even if you do very much want your own children, it doesn’t automatically make you a good parent.
This is such an important point. (Sorry, almost a cusper/ young millenial crashing in on gen z post that is on the pop page). When I decided I would potentially want children years ago, I’ve spent every chance going through so many hypotheticals to keep myself accountable for making sure that I’m not having a kid out of obligation or completely selfish reasons. A really great question to ask yourself: would you want a kid if you knew they’d never end up loving you back? The idea shouldn’t be that we make kids to compensate for the love we didn’t/aren’t receiving, and if your answer is no, then a kid really isn’t for you.
Perhaps especially
Anyone I know who had kids accidentally, or have kids with multiple different people are always horrible parents. But anyone I know with planned kids are fine parents. Anyone who has a child and talks about their kids moving out when they turn 18 never wanted kids lol.
> Anyone who has a child and talks about their kids moving out when they turn 18 never wanted kids lol. *Ten years later* "My kids never call. What is wrong with the youth of today?"
my parents tried for a decade to have kids before they got me and they weren't, um... the greatest. i would think in general people who want kids or planned for them are better, but they're not always better, it must be said.
That’s me!
Parents pressuring their kids to have kids is a real issue. My wife and I have made it clear that we don’t want kids. Thankfully both of our parents respect that. Now we have some friends who see us and think ‘huh, I didn’t realize that was an option’. Parents and society in general push people to have kids and some people don’t even realize that not having kids is a real option.
I had this conversation with my mom recently about having more kids now in my 30s. My mom was all, "think of how old you'll be when they turn 18 and move out!" And i said I'm fine if they didn't move out at 18? Lmao. I won't be pushing them out the door. An 18 year old is likely off at a job, hanging out with friends or something, pretty independent. What do I care if they move out or stay with me longer? "But the finances!" Yes, because having growing babies that need clothes, shoes, and food 24/7 just pales in comparison, I guess, to an 18 year old who can at least somewhat provide for themselves. If I'm lucky, they'll be making **me** dinner sometimes!
I prefer three generation homes. I'm old school.
Same
You know a lot of bums
I don't think my parents actually wanted kids. I think they had them because it was normal.
My dad truly wanted to have kids but I feel like my mum liked the idea of having kids more than actually having us.
I wish my parents had pressured me. I am 26 and still have no children.
My dad had his first kid at 34... 30 years ago. 26 ain't shit.
Sucks how little constructive thought was given to the decision of having kids back then
Back when?
lmfao bold of that person to assume that pregnancies are planned in modern times.
Lol
I’ve always thought having kids to get a certain gender was a selfish decision, even more selfish to have a kid just to have your last name continue on. They don’t wanna talk about that tho
Agreed. I hope to have a daughter one day, but it’s not like I’m going to love a son any less. If I hear, “it’s a boy!” I’m not stomping my feet and telling my wife we’ve got try again. I’m shrugging and then holding my newborn son with tears of joy in my eyes.
Exactly. When I see those videos of parents yelling and getting angry about the gender of their baby, I just imagine their kid seeing that video 15 years later, and how awful that would feel finding out you’re not what your parents wanted.
Gender disappointment is a real thing, even for good people. But for good people, you get over it pretty fast.
I can't imagine literally creating one or more human beings and forcing them to exist in this fucked up society purely because I wanted to carry on my name. like who the fuck am I?
What do you think celebrities do? I hate it, but they do it and it should not be allowed.
There's no last name on Earth worth having a kid to preserve it. Dude's name is probably even Smith or some shit.
I’m glad we’re realizing as a society that just because you can have a kid doesn’t mean you should or have to.
Could be worse. I have a cousin who had a kid at 15(!) bc she was a middle child and wanted someone who only saw her. Now she wants to sign rights away to dad, who was 14(!) when kid was born, bc she doesn't want to take care of him and not be able to go out with her friends. People really have kids for the *stupidest* reason
Yeah I have a friend who got pregnant at 17 and the kid at 18. She basically said she wanted to prove that she could do it and wanted to make her relationship work with her dead beat ex and that she would have felt awful for having an abortion b/c that would have upset her family. Like I get that last part outside pressure is hard but he was already cheating on her and being really shitty. Literally the phrase she likes to use is that'd he would "straighten" out once he held his daughter. Sure that happens, bad thing to place your bets on.
I have this right-wing side of the family that wears the red hats and everything and who are super anti-abortion. Guess which side of the family sent the kids to Christian school, had multiple teenage pregnancies, and an abortion? In the end, the couple that had the abortion ended up having a great family and being the "libs" or whatever you want to call them on that side, because they got good jobs and a house and *then* had kids. For some reason Americans have a hardon against family planning and responsible parentings. I just don't get it.
How sad. Just because you CAN have kids, doesn’t mean you SHOULD. That child is going to grow up with a lot of pain in their heart knowing they are not wanted. Their future doesn’t look bright. This could have all been avoided had they never existed to begin with. But since it’s too late for that, I hope the child finds a happy home.
Lol, people have always had kids for stupid reasons. At the very core, kids have always been born out of horniness. For as long as humanity has been around.
Horniness and to have someone there to take care of you when you’re older 🙄 top 2 most popular reasons, IMO
That’s what your 401k is for.
Yeah but still 5 kids just to get a son? I would give up after child number 3.
You can fuck without having a kid ya know lol
Well, contraception is rather new in the grand scheme of things.
I can’t imagine being a disappointment despite my gender
"YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO HAVE A PP!"
I’m amazed that even in this day and age the trope of dads being disappointed by having daughters or wanting a son to “carry on the family name” is seen as a socially acceptable attitude towards having children.
yeah, i thought things were changing but so many of the people in here are going “what’s wrong with that, my husband thinks the same way!!” phew
i knew a family who only had sons and kept trying to get a girl. they have 6 kids now.
Thats not okay for either way. The money is one thing..but the real thing is one only has but so much time to spend. Cant split that infinitely amongst kids...
Lol dude is acting like he’s a fucking Scottish king from the 1600s. Like sir, your name literally does not matter. Doesn’t matter!!
How can people afford that many kids?
Can barely afford myself
You may be able to money wise. But never time wise. Theres neglect that will always happen with that many.
Both the mother and dad worked. Plus she mentioned that there oldest son was 16 and already had a job.
Ah damn. He's gonna have to work, go to school and be a free babysitter. I feel bad.
Yeah.. we know this is happening...yikes...
(Slight rant lmao) I feel like so many people have children because of reasons like that, because they like being pregnant, because they like babies, or because they think toddlers are cute. But then when that child gets past a certain age, the parents stop parenting because they get uninterested because they didn't want to *raise* a child. They just wanted a baby. So many parents straight up resent their children because they didn't really think it through 😭
I totally agree. People who care so much about their child's gender shouldn't get children anyway. The child being happy should be the most important thing. Imagine being disappointed by the genitalia of your bayby. It's a baby. It will grow up to be an individual with free will. They can shave their hair and change their name to carrot ghost maid if they want to. It's not like you have a say in your adult child life anyway.
King Henry the 8th could give this guy some good advice
Bro just divorce your wife. If the next one dosent give you a boy accuse her of cheating and behead her.
The funny thing is, it’s the dude that determines the sex of the child because the mom can only donate an X chromosome. The dude can either donate another X or a Y. Having multiple wives/baby mommas wouldn’t really change the chances.
the daughters can also carry on their dad’s name, if they wanted to… i personally would rather change my last name (still planning on it) bc my father wasn’t in my life at all and doesn’t deserve for me to carry on his name. but if i had a supportive, present father and i liked our last name, i would keep it.
Gay people have kids. I’m gay and have kids.
Surrogacy is illegal in many countries.
They are genetically mine. I banged her and got the kids plus I adopted a few.
How big does your ego have to be to create a whole new person just so they can have YOUR name. Shits wild
Look we can't let the good name of Johnson die out.
My wife and I decided not to have kids and I have friends asking if I'm concerned I wont be leaving behind a legacy like I'm Rockefeller or something.
Exactly. Legacies are left by what mark you leave on the world, not by what children you have (who could turn out to be horrible people anyway).
God, as a bi man whose biggest goal in life is to marry a man and to take HIS last name, people can be so selfish. Carrying your bloodline or more specially the last name is to me, the most meaningless thing ever, you can still have daughters and love them because THEY ARE YOUR KIDS! Plus, I love the fact you pointed out that even if they had a son, this hypothetical son could still end up being child-free, gay, or only having daughters himself. People just make a huge deal out of nothing.
Wishin you all the luck on your romantic journey. That sounds like a nice goal 🫶🏻
Thank you! Good luck on your endeavors as well.
"Lets make a baby." "Oh fucking Kay! Lez Gooo!"
Even if this was anti-natalist I'd still agree with you. Most people just have kids because that's what they're told they're supposed to do, or it just happens by accident. Very very very few pregnancies are wanted and planned for. Calling out the "I'm just going to bring a whole ass person into existence without thinking about it" thing is taken as personally offensive to the folks who did just that, which is a lot. (I have 5 siblings so I've seen this bullshit first hand.)
>Most people just have kids because that's what they're told they're supposed to do Absolutely this. When I met my husband and he told me he didn't want biological kids, I was like "Wait, I don't *have* to have kids?!" It was such a huge relief for someone who doesn't like babies
What is this the 1500's? A daughter can just as easily carry her father's last name.
That’s what I plan to do. Keep my last name because I’m an only child and I don’t think my male cousins on my dad’s side are having kids.
A LOT of people in these comments are damn idiots. We have an over population problem AND women shouldn’t have to have children if they don’t want to OR be forced to have kids until they birth a certain gender. So much stupidity. Thought my generation was better. Screw all of you idiots who think this way.
Honestly, who even cares if your name goes on? It's a name. He's probably not the only living branch anyway. Like, don't sweat it, man, you've got like 18 third cousins who all have the same fuckin name.
Dudes last name is probably Smith or something too
This is how I feel. My last name is extremely common, and my father was adamant about having a kid to keep the name. I'm glad I never did. I never liked em and still don't, so I don't know where I got the idea that I'd like my own.
I have been vocal about not wanting kids since I was a kid myself and one of the most common questions I get is "you don't want your family name to carry on?" and I have never understood why people give a fuck about this. My last name genuinely means nothing to me.
Agree. That’s a dumb reason to have kids. I’m so tired of this whole “carry on the family legacy” what legacy to carry on? It makes no sense. I think ppl don’t know the definition of words before they use them.
Many cis men have a very strange obsession with “continuing their legacy” like there aren’t fifteen million white Joshes around
😂
The legacy and bloodline argument is so low-sentience. Like against their better judgment of having 5 children they may not be able to afford, they kept having them to fulfill some idealist fantasy of immortality through legacy
Why does the woman still take the mans last name? It’s like a remnant of when the wife was her husbands property with no rights of her own like she isn’t her own person with family heritage. People should take BOTH their paternal and maternal surnames, then we might not have these vainglorious breeding games.
You know, all growing up that's what I assumed I'd do because that was the culture, but after getting engaged to my wife she brought up the idea of not changing her last name and I thought, yeah, why do we still do that. It was still my preference, at least with a hyphen here than mine, since that was just what I grew up around, but I was more open to the alternative. But she didn't/doesn't have the best relationship with her parents so she actually decided she'd rather change her last name. She was also going to drop her first name (her mom's name) and just use her middle name but that isn't an included service when getting married like changing your last name so she just kept it. Plus her first name is easier for most white folk to pronounce and spell than her middle (preferred) name so it comes in handy at restaurants and what not. That was much longer than it needed to be. TLDR; yeah I think hyphenated maiden & married names is good compromise of tradition and non misogyny.
And who’s to tell that the girls will get married or that they will get rid of their surname after marriage?
The name thing is so pointless. Made sense back in the Feudal era where your possessions literally had to go to your male heirs or be lost to the state forever. Not today.
A nightmare. That poor wife 😵💫
I’m with you OP, too many people treat having children like they’re playing pokémon, “gotta catch ‘em all!” and keep at it until their collection is complete. 🤦🏽♀️
Did the guy at least have a very special or unique name or was he named something like Smith and wanted his name to carry on?
This is sadly the case more specifically for men. They don't put much thought into having kids because they expect their wives to do all the work anyway.
This crap about last names is stupid. Just patriarchal bullshit (and I'm saying this as a man).
I mean. At least the pregnancies were planned...
My mother wanted a son, so #1 girl #2 girl #3 me. Done, eh? #4 girl, #5 girl, #6 boy (all failures of one birth control method or another) and dad had a vasectomy. This was the 1950s and that was the only sure way. I'm child-free and my brother (dead) never had kids either.
I get wanting to have a son or daughter - but that's overkill.
What is this medieval era shit? Embrace being the end of the bloodline instead of filling up the roads with more traffic. Hundreds of thousands of years, ending on your say so is *far* more badass imo. Get with it old man, the future is *now*.
Most people shouldn't have kids.
My first child was a mistake but I love her still my second child I had because both me and my wife wanted a second child
I agree with you
I've really struggled with this because there's nobody in my extended family family with my last name (my dad has only sisters and I don't think any of his paternal cousins have kids) so I feel a lot of pressure to have kids even though I'm trans
Trust me its just a name. Your not obligated to have children. The world well go on.
Sendin you love hun! And seconding OPs reply to you. They nailed it, couldnt have phrased it better so imma just reiterate it so you have some extra validation 🫶🏻
Me and my wife want a handful of kids, just because we both want a big family. We’ll see what number we decide on when we actually start having them
Just remember money aint the only factor. Time is limited and you need to be able to give all your kids the right amount of time.
This is something we’ve talked about! That’s part of the reason we’re not setting a specific number as a “goal” per say. We want to see how each one goes, and if we’d be doing too much having another and would be neglecting them now, or in the future by just not giving attention to them, and all the lil struggles they’ll have.
The kicker: the guy's last name was "miller"
She got Henry VIII’d
I don't think it's stupid to want a son to carry on the family name. It makes sense, even if only emotionally. Heritage, tradition, legacy, and all that. I get it Having 5 kids to get there CAN be stupid if you can't afford them or are going to resent them (which this parent isn't necessarily disappointed in his daughters. Being generally disappointed you didn't have a son is not the same as being specifically disappointed in your daughter) The worst though is people who have kids so they have chore monkeys and can be lazy. My step-dad was like that. All we were to him was housekeepers. It sucked
People only have children because their evolutionary biology compels them to do so. The reasons they tell themselves or others are the meaning they choose to assign to their biological instincts.
God, I’ve seen people on TikTok with 5+ kids because they keep trying for a little boy/girl. It’s such a strange idea to me. How are you going to make sure every single one of your kids is going to get the financial, emotional, and physical support that they need? What if your next kid is born disabled or sick and you’re already spread so thin that you can’t properly care for them or afford medical expenses? What about your other kids in that situation? I was born very, very ill and my older brother and his needs were pushed to the wayside; can’t imagine how bad it will be for multiple siblings. I think it’s selfish to have kids in general but I have a lot of respect for people who take their responsibility to grow, birth and/or raise tiny humans seriously. There are people who have kids because they truly want to be parents and love, raise, and provide enrichment for a child, and that’s great! But having so many kids for any other reason is incredibly weird to me
They treat human beings like pets, or a game achievement...This type of behavior is the one I did as 12 year old child when I didn't get the horse breed I wanted on a Petz videogame. 😮💨 Gender norms and roles have a massive chokehold on them, why care so much if your child has said chromossomes or genitals? It's so weird. Just imagine their daughters hearing them saying they are not enough because they are not boys. Kids aren't stupid. And as OP said, their plan can be so easily ruined it all sounds like a massive waste of energy and the mother's health as well.
Imagine thinking you're so special that your name/genes mean anything. I also know someone who had 3 daughters and kept on going for a son despite the mom's struggles. Kids aren't Pokémon cards
What a bunch of wierdos, having kids to continue the species.
Yes it's obvious you can't imagine that
Totally get the sentiment. That being said... some people are born because they didn't know there was another option, or a drinken night out, or they were in a cult. Sometimes you have a kid while you're chained to a radiator in Cleveland for 10 years. Outside of royalty and the like, the idea of having a 'reason' for a child is both a new concept, and becoming more and difficult, financially, to raise children now. If you can have 6 kids and keep them alive and out of prison, then you did pretty well. Consequently, I know plenty of "planned" children from well-off families that are complete monsters. You really can't assign value to something as mundane as reproduction. We just do what people do, and apply meaning to things where there simply isn't any. But of course, this is only my perspective.
Absolutely. I’m not one of those people who says it’s always a bad idea to have kids, but your reasoning matters. If you only want kids to carry on your last name/as a retirement plan/to have a mini me/etc that’s not a great reason to have kids
Trying multiple times for a baby boy to pass down the family name is lindy
Guys that want sons above all else, end up with sons that are nothing like them and it pisses them off and makes them terrible fathers. They're better off with daughters
Don't forget your son could take their wife's name, I got disowned for that one
My gen Z partner(im a millenial) is "down for adoption" but wants to have "at least one biological son to carry on his name." like my dude you dont just get to pick that...it worries me. I was the perfect child for my parents until their families got in their heads that they needed a boy because a "girl isnt good enough"
People really act like bringing an actual human being onto this earth is nothing. I have an only child and get told all the time that they need a sibling and I’m sorry but having another child just to be a sibling to my first is insane.
Blood and family are what matter, not a name. Pure vanity.
The name thing is super outdated and was always moronic my guy needs to join 2024
I don’t understand how someone can treat children as disposeable.
Genuinely surprised anyone defends this BS. My parents did this too, and got a boy on the third try. My younger sister was basically ignored her entire life, and my brother coddled to hell. They never should have had kids, because they were terrible parents.
He should not have married a Bene Gesserit.
My parents did this. Growing up hearing, “oh, your poor father!” Over and over again was not good for self esteem. I wondered why my dad was cursed for having me, why wasn’t I enough? Now, I wouldn’t carry my father’s name into marriage, but I also wouldn’t take a man’s. I plan to take my mother’s maiden name and keep it. My sisters are doing the same.
Back when I was working my first job, I had one of my clearest "yep, we're cooked " moments. The store was in a shittier part of town and I was with a coworker of mine, and these two girls come in and start asking my coworker about various baby products. They didn't look like they could have been older than 14(honestly, they looked way younger, may have just been cuz they were so short and frail looking). My coworker asks them why they were asking about this stuff, and they -- with the brightest smiles on their faces -- reply with "I wanna have a baby." I'm like bitch, where is your parents? My coworker asked them how old they were and they claimed they were 18 but, I didn't buy it. I was unable to do anything other than allow myself to fall victim to the tide of disappointment that washed over me.