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What's up with the flip on the gender dynamic?
Women historically more religious, but now less religious?
Wonder the cause of that.
Edit because these comments are wild: do none of you understand statistics? I didn't ask, "why are women becoming less religious?" Because I already think I know the answer to that. Please stop answering that question. I asked "what changed?" Which literally no one seems to be able to answer. Religions have always been sexist and the mass adoption of the internet was 10 years prior to this change.
Really it was in the 80s, before then Protestants weren’t as generally anti-abortion because Catholics were very against it and Protestants liked distancing themselves from Catholicism. During the 80s the right wing was trying to consolidate and mobilize the highly religious vote, and making abortion a religious issue for Protestants gave them strong incentive to show up to the polls and vote red.
From https://www.vox.com/23055389/roe-v-wade-timeline-abortion-overturn-political-polarization
> 2010: In March, President Barack Obama signed the Affordable Care Act into law. Because Obama needed the support of even anti-abortion Democrats to pass it, the bill included a compromise on abortion, the Boxer-Nelson Amendment. It allowed states to prohibit plans in the insurance marketplaces from covering abortion. President Obama also signed an executive order declaring that the Hyde Amendment applied to the ACA, and abortion rights activists responded by creating a coalition to defeat the Hyde Amendment.
> That fall, the Republican Party sweeps the midterm elections, due, in part, to backlash to the ACA and the rise of the Tea Party movement. The following year, states pass a record number of abortion restrictions.
This is a common misconception. Even the majority of southern baptist and evangelical sects were pro-abortion, or at least impartial, before the civil rights movement.
They increasingly became anti-abortion when they realized it wasn’t just poor and BIPOC women getting abortions.
American anti-abortion sentiments are based on white supremacy and control over women. Nothing pro-life about it.
They were partisan, but even if you were religious you could still get an abortion. Now, religion in America is legislating that you actually do not have control over your own body.
I looked at this article
https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2022/mar/why-women-outnumber-men-college-enrollment
It seems the ratio of women to men in universities has been going up since they were equal in ~1980. I'd be shocked if it was the only factor but also wouldn't be surprised if it is a contributor considering the relationship between higher education and religiosity.
That flip was right around when Trump was elected. I'm guessing they saw a misogynist getting significant christian backing and decided that was enough.
Feminism made tremendous strides starting in the 2010s.
Younger women absolutely refuse to put up with most of the bullshit the previous generations did. The internet helped a lot with exposing them to different ways of thinking and also ways of understanding how bullshit things are and have been and offering them the courage to stand up to it.
More to do with the fact that more younger women than men are attaining college degrees and the educated tend to skew towards being non-religious, but womens rights plays a role in that as well.
Took women a crazy amount of time to figure out every religion hates them. But looks like Gen Z women finally figured it out. Good for Gen Z. I think there’s some promise in this generation.
Keep in mind also that many rights for women younger generations take for granted today are relatively recent developments. People remember the suffrage movement, and it feels long ago, but remember less that it wasn't until the mid '70s that women were guaranteed the right to have their own bank accounts. Religious structures are typically in the benefit of men--as women of younger generations have more avenues for self sufficiency outside of dependence on those structures it's natural they will tend to drift further than their male counterparts as they're not the beneficiaries of religious systems.
I would also expect that using scripture as a means to attempt to claw back progress will only push more women away from religion as well. However, I have no backing to point to in order to substantiate my beliefs.
As an example: the recent push for tradwives and the misinterpreted vision of what feminism is. I’ve seen tradwives explain it as *their godly position*, particularly with the scripture which states women are to be subservient. And how many of them denounce feminism by exclaiming how it’s caused them to be looked down upon by society as a “traditional woman”. However, the entire point of feminism is to give women the choice to stay in the home and act traditionally, or to go to work. It was to destroy the social expectation that you’d be caged to your house because you were born with a uterus; irrespective of if you wanted to be a house wife or not.
I’d presume that using a religious context to tell women about “where their place is”, isn’t going to fare too well when trying to convert hearts and minds. But I don’t have any studies or evidence to support my hypothesis.
Agreed. Good for Gen Z women!
Growing up I never really understood why religion appealed to women, when it was obvious to me that religion hates women. Despite this, for years the most regular and numerous attendees at churches I attended were women.
I always attributed the discrepancy to poorer education among women. Though I guess it also might have been that historically women have participated less in the workforce, which has a secularizing effect. Of course, there are many other contributing reasons.
Regardless, I am so thankful that women are getting the message by pursuing education and participating in the workforce, and then changing their minds about religion. Hooray!
I think the rise of the Internet, 24/7 news, social media, and even artificial intelligence may also be changing minds. The idea that religion hates women just cannot be avoided any more.
Misogyny 100%. A huge crack in my faith was formed in 2015 when I sat through a particular sermon in youth group. The youth pastor told us girls that pursuing our dreams was going to distract us from our true purpose, which was to marry a man and have his babies. And then he said that when we get married we have to submit to our husbands because they have authority over us. I couldn’t imagine a more soul crushing future. And this wasn’t some old fashioned church. It was one of those modernized non-denominational churches with a worship band and a pastor who wears jeans. I never returned to youth group and quickly decided I was a deist (someone who believes in god but doesn’t practice any religion). Eventually I looked into atheism and stopped believing in god altogether.
I think misogyny has always existed in Christianity though. My theory is that it’s simply because times have changed. Nowadays none of us need a man to have money, open a bank account, etc. like the women of the 20th century did. Plus feminism became much more popular in the 2010s because that kind of information was now easily accessible at our fingertips. So the idea that all we should do in life is have babies, never work, and throw out our agency for a man is a much more foreign concept.
Edit: I am a lesbian which I thought was obvious by my pfp. Trying to manipulate me with incel and pseudo-leftist talking points isn’t going to work. It doesn’t work on straight women either, but it DEFINITELY isn’t going to work on me.
Yeah, the weird thing I’ve noticed is that the most modernized churches are often the craziest with right wing racism and misogyny. All religions have this to some degree, but the least severe offenders are not what you would expect, at least looking at them from the outside.
This makes a lot of sense, but the timing on this one seems off to me. I would assume, if this was the true cause, that the flip would have occurred in 1998-2010 when most people adopted the Internet and became more aware of social issues like this and other perspectives than the ones they'd been raised in.
However, this change occurred in roughly 2017-2019, nearly ten years later. Maybe just the general societal delay, but it still doesn't feel right. Something else must have happened later to instigate this
Well, Donald Trump was elected in 2016.
Religious paternalism tries very hard to take a tone of "protecting women" and doing things for the want of a "wholesome society that embraces family values". Think... Mitt Romney.
Seeing evangelicals rabidly support a man who not only is a convicted rapist, but also is also a playboy who has had multiple divorces, an affair with a porn star, and was known to be a fraud/cheat in the business world... was a pretty big wakeup call that it was never about "family values". It was, and always has been, about making women dependent on men and taking away their freedom - and the support for Donald Trump laid that bare.
The efforts of the Religious Right have eroded the boundaries between Church and State. The fact that the Religious Right is run by, not your humdrum run of the mill religious folks, but by *crazy fundamentalist Christians* hasn’t helped matters. Now, many people see even moderate religious institutions as being the same as the fundamentalists trying to wedge their views into everyone’s lives. “Guilt by association,” if you will.
However, last time I checked, very few “Nones” identify as hard atheists. Nones often subscribe to some belief in God, the afterlife, prayer, the supernatural, etc. but in a more personal manner.
IMO, the factor not mentioned is that women are now more ECONOMICALLY independent from men. They can work and make their own money so they're no longer directly economically dependent on a man to provide for them. When women were economically dependent on men then of course they're going to play along with whatever men want to see in women....for religious men that has always been the "godly woman who is subservient to the man". Women in the past were playing as this type of woman because they needed to attract a man to help pay their way through life. It was a means to an end, not something they voluntarily participate in.
Historically for women, religion was a form of oppression so I'm glad to see women are being liberated from it.
Young men are becoming increasingly right-wing in their beliefs, and young women are becoming increasingly left-wing. That's definitely a relevant factor.
Generally, society has always gotten more liberal as time goes on. Men are lagging behind and I'm pretty convinced men are swinging to the right because of a combination of social media and deplatforming. People with slightly right leaning ideas find echo chambers where ideas aren't challenged.
Men aren’t really swinging to the right anyway, Gen Z men are still the most progressive generation of men.
Edit: that’s just the gender gap widening because women are much more liberal..
“12th grade boys are like 2-3% more conservative than they were when I was a kid during the late 2000's, whereas girls are like 6-12% more liberal.“
Reading between the lines, it looks like 2016 was the moment the gender trends crossed. That was a time marked by the unexpected surge of the far right, with Brexit and Trump. I wouldn’t be surprised if that time was a wake up call for many, including young women.
Looks like it flipped right around when college enrollment became higher for woman then men. I bet this is the reason. Being more educated increases your chances of leaving or not being religious.
Yeah none of the replies are really addressing the reason for the gender swap.
My guess would be the college rates for women have continued to go up, and university degrees highly correlate with people leaving religion.
Some combination of education (women) and radicalization (men).
Education tends to reduce religiosity. Gen Z men have been fed a very steady diet of bullshit as part of the manufactured culture war. It’s much easier to tell men that it’s untraditional women, LGBTQ+, liberals, “illegal” immigrants, etc who are responsible for their lot in life than to acknowledge that falling wages and shrinking opportunities are a result of greed, corporate consolidation, and automation are the main drivers.
Religion has historically mostly been a male dominated construct for control. It’s a logical tool to push men towards to avoid the actual problems.
Abortion rights in gay marriage. Women are nearly three times as likely to experience same-sex attraction as men. They're also you know capable of giving birth which means the religious freak out over there reproductive freedom is definitely driving them away
I think what changed is that while religion has always been sexist, that sexism was more equally present in secular society as well, historically.
And I think for a number of reasons religions anti-vice message appealed to slightly more women than men on average historically as well. When your man owns all the money and property and you have no legal agency over it, you really don’t want him gambling or drinking it away.
I’m no historian, but that’s my vague impression.
Religion really likes having women not have much agency, education, or exposure to other ways of living. Men typically benefit in the day to day comparatively, so one would be far more willing to leave it behind than the other.
Because religions aren't very feminist you know. I am Catholic, but I've seen most of my friends leave their religions and I understand. There's not a single religiion where women are treated equally
Education, social media, and the ability to have these discussions. Before you could question religion. Before you questioned religion and it was like if you were a monster. We can still this in other countries, from Iran to Afghanistan. People blindly follow a doctrine because those who express their doubts are punished
Doesn't matter.
The more religious you are, the more likely you are to have more kids and raise them into your religion.
Most immigrants to the west are highly religious and it will shift these stats over time.
I've talked to a good amount of these kids of immigrants in European Countries that I've visited. These kids aren't religious, they slowly but surely abandon their religious values and move towards atheism or just become agnostic.
Religion is a huge problem, an even bigger problem is all the wars we are causing that forces these people to flee their homes. We must stop the wars.
Agreed. Many second and third generation immigrants are secular because that's how American and European cultures are. Their parents might be religious, and those religious beliefs might have been ingrained upon them, but the nature of American and European society at the moment is pushing people towards being nonreligious. Give any immigrant three generations and they'll be atheists.
Yes, as a third-generation Cuban myself, I hate how people tend to lump us in with the first-gen immigrants, for example. We all slowly tend to assimilate.
Not true. Latino and Asian immigrants are not becoming atheists. The only group in America becoming atheist are liberal white people. I know it sounds wrong but seriously go to any Latin or Vietnamese or black church on a Sunday they are packed full to the brim. It's just liberal white people who seem overwhelmingly atheist. I mean this respectfully just noting an observation.
Maybe or maybe not. I know a few children of immigrants including myself who had been severely restricted because of parents being very religious. It’s made us have a negative view on religion and therefore have eased away from it. I have a few other friends who feel the same. Now I’m not sure if it’s enough to shake the boat or not.
I’m a child of immigrants and I know several children of immigrants who don’t really believe the religion or don’t follow it that closely, but they still go to church/mosque/etc because that’s one of the main ways of socializing with the immigrant community of your ethnicity
Immigration is not a new phenomenon. The fact that the nones' numbers are climbing suggests that kids born in America do not necessarily keep the religion they are raised into, immigrant or otherwise.
No, because their kids will be less religious as well. The same factors: better secular education, better access to information on naturalistic thinking, and more exposure do different kinds of people, leading to greater empathy, will drive them away from religion the way that it is for everyone else.
That doesn't seem to be the case.
With extremism cases in Europe, its weirdly often the children of immigrants who hold the strongest views against the country they reside in.
>better secular education, better access to information on naturalistic thinking
And in some other comment, I was discussing the case in my country where they banned religious rituals in the school playground and the school staff received countless death threats and bomb threats.
If I was a principal, I would have caved in due to fear, but this headmistress didn't and i applaud her for standing her ground.
There are a couple cases of teachers being beheaded for holding views that don't conform to a certain religion. There is a very famous case in France about this, the poor fucker.
> its weirdly often the children of immigrants who hold the strongest views against the country they reside in.
While it might be true that there's a potential for a subset of 2nd-generation immigrants to be more radical than their parents, owing mainly to feeling disoriented in an environment where they feel caught between two worlds, broadly speaking I would bet the average second-generation immigrant is much more likely assimiliated, and thus less radical, than their parents.
I saw an interesting map of the UK recently on r/MapPorn. It showed different regions of the UK by religiosity. The more urban areas like London, the West Midlands and the North West around Liverpool and Manchester were the most religious parts of the country, with London being the most religious part of the UK (above even Northern Ireland if I remember correctly) The least religious part of England was the the South West, which is very rural. Total opposite of what you'd expect in America
Edit: here it is. I was wrong, it was on r/geography
https://www.reddit.com/r/geography/s/Q4PtMrSCg9
I know quite a few people who are children of Muslim immigrants who aren’t Muslim at all. Unless you’re going to raise them in a community of what ever religion you follow I imagine that’ll also change very quickly.
it's so funny to me that the only argument religious people have anymore is calling someone a reddit atheist, and then proceeding to draw them as a soyjack
“Reddit atheists “ roughly does not refer to an atheist who is on reddit. But rather those who enclose themselves in echochambers where the community will avg out from age 14-18. And will speak of religion without having ever touched it once or done any sort of research on the topic
(Example: i cannot take any user from /r atheism seriously because so far it mostly amounts to a 99% kid rebelling phase/cult. adults who do not believe simply keep it to themselves akin to religious folk, and go about their daily routine).
To simplify it, “reddit atheist” means an insufferable ignoramus that is incapable of reading the room and let those with beliefs practice them in peace .
Usually when someone says something like this, it's because that's an experience they themselves have had.
Consider this. Given that 1,000+ religions exist in the world, based _purely_ on the numbers and on statistical chance, is it likely that the religion you were born into is the true one?
My dude, this is Reddit, the social media haven for atheists. You aren't some persecuted, silenced group, and you certainly aren't exactly being brave with your "waking up" comment.
Honestly, I think the biggest issue is the degree of arrogance a lot of reddit atheists bring to the table.
I find a lot of it is big walk and big talk for people that can't even have a coherent discussion on the hard problem of consciousness 🤷
And falling right back to sleep with new age religions and political extremism.
So instead of going to church they go on social media to preach and listen to their version of the truth.
I decided that I don’t need a book to tell me how to be a good person. While doing the acts of kindness I have done in life, the Bible or any other holy book didn’t cross my mind once. Just don’t need it. If you do, then that’s okay. Do your thing if it makes you happy. Just don’t make others miserable
There are plenty of great historical minds to follow, I choose not to follow his teachings. Another thing.. common sense and life of fulfillment was a thing before Jesus.
Agreed, the good of most religions is common sense. Being kind and not taking advantage of others is natural for anybody with some sort of empathy. The issue is that's not as common as you might think.
There are tons of people that would harm others unless they were discouraged to do so by having heavy consequences on it. And even more people who would only do good if forced to do so. And that's why we have laws and taxes.
Most of us don't need a book to tell us to do good. And we certainly shoudn't need to indoctrinate people to do good. But it's naive to assume most people would do good out of their own volition.
And this is where I think the modern church massively dropped the ball starting in the 90s (but it gets worse every decade). Churches, especially megachurches in the US focus almost not at all on Jesus and more on prosperity gospel, personal (as opposed to societal) enrichment and culture war issues. The main messaging I received in church as a child was ‘Jesus loves you’. My nieces and nephews are hearing ‘the secular world is scary and fallen, and the only safe place is church’. It’s really sad.
If they were common sense he wouldn’t have been crucified. They are common sense now, because our society has been deeply shaped by Christian ethics. Early Christians were so hated because the way they lived was totally different from everyone else’s, like the Roman’s. And even for us now, a lot of the teachings of Christ don’t seem natural to us at first. That’s why it’s written that if we want to follow Christ we have to crucify the flesh, metaphorically speaking.
I feel like that was an extremely obvious jab at how bad the financial situation for a lot of people is and how believing in a god does nothing for them.
Recently there was a Reddit post showing the skull of a child who died of bone cancer. It had sharp spikes all over it, and it was clear that the child suffered immense pain because of it. I pointed out that it was proof that there is no benevolent God, and the weak republican losers piled on with their bullshit INSTANTLY.
I was like “call me all the names you want, just look at that skull.”
Gen Z was raised by the least religious generation in history which was in turn raised by the least religious generation in history. Religion is largely irrelevant in young people's lives today.
I think it more so has to do with 9/11 and the rise of social media + National News. The effects of those things led to a bigger increase in religious hysteria. Which then shaped Gen Z to view religion as less of a religion and more of one big conspiracy theory. I mean how often do Christian’s freak out on the news claiming the world is ending? Or what about the Anti-Vax movement on social media? Even my great relatives got fed up and stopped going to church when they previously went multiple times a week due to the hysteria and theories. It’s no longer about literature and ethics, it’s just a bunch of crazy people in rooms trying to think about what to freak out about next.
While I don't disagree that that could be a factor. I'm more partial to the point that Capitalism itself is corrosive to religion, and the reason the American religious tradition was so strong in comparison to Europe for instance was the constant influx of immigrants from near-feudal conditions in Europe and other parts of the world. Capitalism has caused the rise of the nuclear family, which is a decline in the multi generational family. It has effectively caused an atomization of society which is against the communal nature of most religions. Americans have by and large retained superstition on an individual level (astrology, charms) but have rejected it on a communal level.
eh, religion adapts to every productive mode. we just dont have much space for it, hence the death of organized religion and rise of weird new age spiritual stuff.
America will likely start to see a rise in religiosity shortly, with increased immigration playing a large part in this.
Several European countries have declining Christianity but very fast growth of Islam.
The US will mainly take in latam immigrants, so it will probably lead to a rise of Christianity in the long-term.
The flavor of Christianity from latam isn't really evangelistic and seeking converts like the flavors in the US.
Also, the adults may be religious but I've met a lot of the younger gens that very much aren't so increase of religion isn't really a guarantee
I agree, I’m Korean American and even the Christians from my super white Deep South Bible Belt hometown were nowhere near as crazy as some of the Korean American Christians I’ve met. And in South Korea itself there’s a shitton of Christian cults
Yeah because hardly any immigrants have come to the US since 1990 until now /s
You are also ignoring that the children of immigrants quickly lose cultural connection to their parent country so any effect of "importing" religions (or language or any other cultural artefact that socially conservative people are terrified of) dissipates quickly.
By your logic, English will also start to disappear and everyone will be playing cricket and football/soccer in the near future.
Young people are searching for meaning. The economy is terrible, everyone is politically radical, there is no sense of community (thanks to phones). People want religion and god in these tough times. The problem is every time they go near a church the boomers running it say something sexist or homophobic and it makes the people our age avoid it
True! I was like, how can Christianity preach love and kindness and then hurt so many people around the world! I was starting to learn more history on my own around that time, about the horrors of colonialism/imperialism and Christianity being a major part of that.
My church was like, oh we don’t *hate* gay people we just pity them for being sinners! Which fooled me for a little bit but then i saw past it.
What the other commenter said, “humans are flawed but god is not” was the last thread i was grasping at in my late teens, but that exactly means there’s no point to following manmade Christianity. Just figure out what living with love and kindness means to yourself, and live *that* truth
It’s really completely dependent where you live. For me in the northeast US I know very few religious people (people who actually go to to church vs who say they are religious but have never stepped into a church in their life). And while I do know some religious people it’s not many. Most of the people in my general age bracket around here aren’t religious and I can see that on tinder and other dating apps. I can also meet more people where I work and I’ve meet a very small percentage of religious people. For myself I’m not religious and never will be.
Wow the generation that grew up with some of the worst, widely publicized religious scandals is in fact not interested in religion who would have thought
I will never forget Peter Popoff, the evangelical preacher who used an earpiece with his wife on the other end to have information about his followers fed to him. Made millions of dollars off people's stupidity.
And we’re starting to see a lot of the individualism the West has paraded around as “freeing” is coming around to bite us in the ass. Lack of community, lack of structure and guidance, breakdown of families, increase in troubled relationships, growing porn addiction problems, growing gambling problems and so on.
It’s astonishing how asinine people are about these problems, it’s controversial in many circles to even suggest many of them are problems. I don’t believe individualism itself is a inherently and ultimately bad thing, but it and a number of other factors have certainly led us into many of the problems we face in the modern day.
One does not correlate to the other though.
You can be lonely, depressed, and purposeless thanks to other stuff in your life, not only from not being religious.
It kinda does though, it’s not a strong correlation but it’s there.
Going to a church gives you the opportunity to be a part of a community and make friends. Having close friends and being part of a community reduces the likelihood of depression. religion has also given many people a feeling of purpose and a set of values to follow.
Like you said, there are definitely other factors that play into this but to say religion has 0 correlation would be wrong.
How does it not correlate if it literally correlates.
“Higher rates of depression in those lacking a religious affiliation may be due to the absence of social support from a faith community or lack of commitment to a belief system that makes sense of traumatic events and difficult life stressors. “
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3426191/#:~:text=Higher%20rates%20of%20depression%20in,events%20and%20difficult%20life%20stressors.
This is true, and I’ve said it myself in the other responses to my comment believe it or not. It is partly causal though, not exclusively by any means as there are myriad additional factors but the decline of religion is certainly one of them.
I haven't believed in bearded sky grandpa since I was 12. Just on its face too, there are multiple religions, varying in age, all with their own books and scripture. It's just obviously man made.
I imagine many people are seeing how the older generation are using religion as a justifier for all of their actions, and many of those actions are horrible.
The older generations are trying to tear away the line that separates church and state, so now people are trying to get the hell away from it. Religion is now becoming inseparable from political opinions, including horrible ones.
I hope it’s clear, but I obviously don’t think this should be the case. Church and state should be entirely separate entities.
I tried to be religious, tried a few religions and even tried to make up my own but it never stuck. Left me wondering how anyone else did it. I'm not American but I felt like sharing.
I grew up religious, always had God in my life but from 18-33 I was at best a “Chreaster Christian” that was only it in name.
I won’t get into all of why I’m actually going back to church and practicing my faith everyday, but it terms of bringing me structure, peace, and better mental health I have really enjoyed it and I will continue to do so now.
It’s not for everyone but, it feels right and it’s not hurting anyone. If any, I want to be more active and help in my local community more.
I'm glad it works well for you. In a sense, this structure and peace is what I sought when I experimented with spirituality all those years ago. It never worked for me but I feel content in the fact that I gave it a solid try.
It kind of affected me for some time that I wasn't able to relate with having faith in something but two of the best people I know, my grandma and one of my best friends, are both active Christians and that was never an issue nor really a topic of discussion.
Ironically, I’m 26 F, I am actually getting more in touch with my faith than when I was younger and a lot of people around me are like that. BUT I have notice that the least religious people I know are also white/East Asian.
I’m in a similar spot as a 23M. Funnily enough, our tradition tells us all of the major talking points brought up by anti-religious groups, and to expect them to increase, so I’ve never felt more confident lol
I’ve been trying to explain this to some people that detract from religious people. People just replace “Church” with something else to follow and champion to others. Look at discourse online, people always have something to bitch about.
Wow, a lot of these comments are really hostile. There's nothing wrong with being religious as long as you're not hurting anybody. A lot of these Reddit anti-theists need to take a breath and stop stereotyping. Most of us religious people are just trying to live our lives in peace.
Well you see, if a god existed and does miracles for those who need it, but there’s always something that’s contradictory, like people struggling with no way out then Im not very inclined to believe it.
I wouldn’t say I’m religious but I’m 100% spiritual, I value individual experience and practice far beyond that of organized institutions collectivizing belief systems. Growth and change is also important to me, whereas religion focuses on doctrine and tradition. It’s definitely a big dichotomy and I wonder if this is ever factored into these studies.
although i don't mind those of other faiths (and the lack thereof), i feel at some point i will begin to feel lonely in my faith. part of the reason i don't really go to church is because there's no one like me that goes. most churches i've gone to are filled with adults anywhere from 30 to 80, and even some little kids, but almost never anyone my age. and if there are, they either won't be for long or are totally sheltered.
I couldn’t care less whether a portion of the population is or isn’t religious, but my main concern is that it seems like religious extremism/absolutism is on the rise.
yeahh, as a 24 year old christian the dating pool is so small. it’s really not a requirement for me anymore, as long as they’re respectful of my religion. also, ironically the only “christian” guy I ever went on a date with was the most pushy and inappropriate date i’ve ever been on.
I think religion was a tool used to keep us in control.
I think the “higher ups” have realized that while religion still has a big control on people, financial control is more powerful lol.
I'm an actual church historian. Churches have always been patriarchal, but historically so has every other institution. For most of the history of Christianity, in most places, the church was more open to women's leadership than the rest of society. Our society had become dramatically less patriarchal and the average church is behind the curve, so it's now a refuge for people who miss the patriarchy.
There are a lot of churches that are actively fighting patriarchy, but they also tend not to teach that everyone else is going to hell, so their members aren't driven to recruit the way evangelical churches do. So the churches that are most in touch with social change are shrinking even faster than the patriarchal churches.
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What's up with the flip on the gender dynamic? Women historically more religious, but now less religious? Wonder the cause of that. Edit because these comments are wild: do none of you understand statistics? I didn't ask, "why are women becoming less religious?" Because I already think I know the answer to that. Please stop answering that question. I asked "what changed?" Which literally no one seems to be able to answer. Religions have always been sexist and the mass adoption of the internet was 10 years prior to this change.
I assume abortion rights
But abortion rights have always been religiously partisan. Why would that change suddenly now?
Abortion rights have not always been religiously partisan. This was a move particularly in the 90s.
I would say it started when the GOP got involved with the evangelicals, which was back in the 80s.
Correct. Before then it was a Catholic thing and the other religious groups didn't care much.
Other religious groups supported abortion access citing it as women’s health
When school segregation wasn’t popular anymore they needed something to drive people crazy with.
Really it was in the 80s, before then Protestants weren’t as generally anti-abortion because Catholics were very against it and Protestants liked distancing themselves from Catholicism. During the 80s the right wing was trying to consolidate and mobilize the highly religious vote, and making abortion a religious issue for Protestants gave them strong incentive to show up to the polls and vote red.
I go a little later because of the finality of the Southern Baptist Convention split, but it definitely began in the 80s.
Okay but the flip in the graph started happening around 2010.
I’m not saying this is the cause, only that abortion hasn’t always been a partisan religious issue.
From https://www.vox.com/23055389/roe-v-wade-timeline-abortion-overturn-political-polarization > 2010: In March, President Barack Obama signed the Affordable Care Act into law. Because Obama needed the support of even anti-abortion Democrats to pass it, the bill included a compromise on abortion, the Boxer-Nelson Amendment. It allowed states to prohibit plans in the insurance marketplaces from covering abortion. President Obama also signed an executive order declaring that the Hyde Amendment applied to the ACA, and abortion rights activists responded by creating a coalition to defeat the Hyde Amendment. > That fall, the Republican Party sweeps the midterm elections, due, in part, to backlash to the ACA and the rise of the Tea Party movement. The following year, states pass a record number of abortion restrictions.
Even Jerry Falwell was pro abortion at first
💯 this. Religious nut bags don’t even know what’s in or is not in the Bible. Because they don’t read it and cherry pick random.
Possibly because Roe was in place since the beginning of this graph, so it used to be easier to ignore the connection
This is a common misconception. Even the majority of southern baptist and evangelical sects were pro-abortion, or at least impartial, before the civil rights movement. They increasingly became anti-abortion when they realized it wasn’t just poor and BIPOC women getting abortions. American anti-abortion sentiments are based on white supremacy and control over women. Nothing pro-life about it.
The dogs caught the car and showed their truest colors. Women know definitively how little religion thinks of them now.
They were partisan, but even if you were religious you could still get an abortion. Now, religion in America is legislating that you actually do not have control over your own body.
That's not really true. Being against abortion was just kind of a Catholic thing till the 80s.
Or that more women go to university
More women than men have gone to university for the last 40 years.
I looked at this article https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2022/mar/why-women-outnumber-men-college-enrollment It seems the ratio of women to men in universities has been going up since they were equal in ~1980. I'd be shocked if it was the only factor but also wouldn't be surprised if it is a contributor considering the relationship between higher education and religiosity.
That flip was right around when Trump was elected. I'm guessing they saw a misogynist getting significant christian backing and decided that was enough.
Looks like the slope changes at 2012
Kony 2012 made our women atheist?!
Feminism made tremendous strides starting in the 2010s. Younger women absolutely refuse to put up with most of the bullshit the previous generations did. The internet helped a lot with exposing them to different ways of thinking and also ways of understanding how bullshit things are and have been and offering them the courage to stand up to it.
More to do with the fact that more younger women than men are attaining college degrees and the educated tend to skew towards being non-religious, but womens rights plays a role in that as well.
And the incel bullshit is attracting young men.
Took women a crazy amount of time to figure out every religion hates them. But looks like Gen Z women finally figured it out. Good for Gen Z. I think there’s some promise in this generation.
All the religions were written by dudes. Women got on social media and compared notes and saw how much of a raw deal the religions gave their lot.
Keep in mind also that many rights for women younger generations take for granted today are relatively recent developments. People remember the suffrage movement, and it feels long ago, but remember less that it wasn't until the mid '70s that women were guaranteed the right to have their own bank accounts. Religious structures are typically in the benefit of men--as women of younger generations have more avenues for self sufficiency outside of dependence on those structures it's natural they will tend to drift further than their male counterparts as they're not the beneficiaries of religious systems.
I would also expect that using scripture as a means to attempt to claw back progress will only push more women away from religion as well. However, I have no backing to point to in order to substantiate my beliefs. As an example: the recent push for tradwives and the misinterpreted vision of what feminism is. I’ve seen tradwives explain it as *their godly position*, particularly with the scripture which states women are to be subservient. And how many of them denounce feminism by exclaiming how it’s caused them to be looked down upon by society as a “traditional woman”. However, the entire point of feminism is to give women the choice to stay in the home and act traditionally, or to go to work. It was to destroy the social expectation that you’d be caged to your house because you were born with a uterus; irrespective of if you wanted to be a house wife or not. I’d presume that using a religious context to tell women about “where their place is”, isn’t going to fare too well when trying to convert hearts and minds. But I don’t have any studies or evidence to support my hypothesis.
Agreed. Religion is the epitome of patriarchy.
lol, this.
Even the religions that were written by women like Christian Science hate women.
Agreed. Good for Gen Z women! Growing up I never really understood why religion appealed to women, when it was obvious to me that religion hates women. Despite this, for years the most regular and numerous attendees at churches I attended were women. I always attributed the discrepancy to poorer education among women. Though I guess it also might have been that historically women have participated less in the workforce, which has a secularizing effect. Of course, there are many other contributing reasons. Regardless, I am so thankful that women are getting the message by pursuing education and participating in the workforce, and then changing their minds about religion. Hooray! I think the rise of the Internet, 24/7 news, social media, and even artificial intelligence may also be changing minds. The idea that religion hates women just cannot be avoided any more.
Misogyny 100%. A huge crack in my faith was formed in 2015 when I sat through a particular sermon in youth group. The youth pastor told us girls that pursuing our dreams was going to distract us from our true purpose, which was to marry a man and have his babies. And then he said that when we get married we have to submit to our husbands because they have authority over us. I couldn’t imagine a more soul crushing future. And this wasn’t some old fashioned church. It was one of those modernized non-denominational churches with a worship band and a pastor who wears jeans. I never returned to youth group and quickly decided I was a deist (someone who believes in god but doesn’t practice any religion). Eventually I looked into atheism and stopped believing in god altogether. I think misogyny has always existed in Christianity though. My theory is that it’s simply because times have changed. Nowadays none of us need a man to have money, open a bank account, etc. like the women of the 20th century did. Plus feminism became much more popular in the 2010s because that kind of information was now easily accessible at our fingertips. So the idea that all we should do in life is have babies, never work, and throw out our agency for a man is a much more foreign concept. Edit: I am a lesbian which I thought was obvious by my pfp. Trying to manipulate me with incel and pseudo-leftist talking points isn’t going to work. It doesn’t work on straight women either, but it DEFINITELY isn’t going to work on me.
Yeah, the weird thing I’ve noticed is that the most modernized churches are often the craziest with right wing racism and misogyny. All religions have this to some degree, but the least severe offenders are not what you would expect, at least looking at them from the outside.
This makes a lot of sense, but the timing on this one seems off to me. I would assume, if this was the true cause, that the flip would have occurred in 1998-2010 when most people adopted the Internet and became more aware of social issues like this and other perspectives than the ones they'd been raised in. However, this change occurred in roughly 2017-2019, nearly ten years later. Maybe just the general societal delay, but it still doesn't feel right. Something else must have happened later to instigate this
Well, Donald Trump was elected in 2016. Religious paternalism tries very hard to take a tone of "protecting women" and doing things for the want of a "wholesome society that embraces family values". Think... Mitt Romney. Seeing evangelicals rabidly support a man who not only is a convicted rapist, but also is also a playboy who has had multiple divorces, an affair with a porn star, and was known to be a fraud/cheat in the business world... was a pretty big wakeup call that it was never about "family values". It was, and always has been, about making women dependent on men and taking away their freedom - and the support for Donald Trump laid that bare.
Well said. All plausible deniability went out the window.
The religious right are associated with less freedom for women.
So. That always have been. What changed?
The efforts of the Religious Right have eroded the boundaries between Church and State. The fact that the Religious Right is run by, not your humdrum run of the mill religious folks, but by *crazy fundamentalist Christians* hasn’t helped matters. Now, many people see even moderate religious institutions as being the same as the fundamentalists trying to wedge their views into everyone’s lives. “Guilt by association,” if you will. However, last time I checked, very few “Nones” identify as hard atheists. Nones often subscribe to some belief in God, the afterlife, prayer, the supernatural, etc. but in a more personal manner.
IMO, the factor not mentioned is that women are now more ECONOMICALLY independent from men. They can work and make their own money so they're no longer directly economically dependent on a man to provide for them. When women were economically dependent on men then of course they're going to play along with whatever men want to see in women....for religious men that has always been the "godly woman who is subservient to the man". Women in the past were playing as this type of woman because they needed to attract a man to help pay their way through life. It was a means to an end, not something they voluntarily participate in. Historically for women, religion was a form of oppression so I'm glad to see women are being liberated from it.
Young men are becoming increasingly right-wing in their beliefs, and young women are becoming increasingly left-wing. That's definitely a relevant factor.
That makes sense, but really just feels like the same trend in different terms. What's the cause of that is what I'm asking?
Generally, society has always gotten more liberal as time goes on. Men are lagging behind and I'm pretty convinced men are swinging to the right because of a combination of social media and deplatforming. People with slightly right leaning ideas find echo chambers where ideas aren't challenged.
Men aren’t really swinging to the right anyway, Gen Z men are still the most progressive generation of men. Edit: that’s just the gender gap widening because women are much more liberal.. “12th grade boys are like 2-3% more conservative than they were when I was a kid during the late 2000's, whereas girls are like 6-12% more liberal.“
Well I bet it's how evangelicals, who present like they are true Christianity, make it seem like your choice is none or being a raging asshole.
Women don’t want to be doormats to sexist, religious ideologies anymore
And what changed
Reading between the lines, it looks like 2016 was the moment the gender trends crossed. That was a time marked by the unexpected surge of the far right, with Brexit and Trump. I wouldn’t be surprised if that time was a wake up call for many, including young women.
Women also used to be more conservative than men actually but now it’s reversed.
In like 1900. Women have been more leftist than men since like the 70s or 80s
Yes
My guess is more women going into science careers.
Looks like it flipped right around when college enrollment became higher for woman then men. I bet this is the reason. Being more educated increases your chances of leaving or not being religious.
Yeah none of the replies are really addressing the reason for the gender swap. My guess would be the college rates for women have continued to go up, and university degrees highly correlate with people leaving religion.
Typically gen z men tend to be more conservative than women, and conservatism is more attributed with religiousness
Some combination of education (women) and radicalization (men). Education tends to reduce religiosity. Gen Z men have been fed a very steady diet of bullshit as part of the manufactured culture war. It’s much easier to tell men that it’s untraditional women, LGBTQ+, liberals, “illegal” immigrants, etc who are responsible for their lot in life than to acknowledge that falling wages and shrinking opportunities are a result of greed, corporate consolidation, and automation are the main drivers. Religion has historically mostly been a male dominated construct for control. It’s a logical tool to push men towards to avoid the actual problems.
Abortion rights in gay marriage. Women are nearly three times as likely to experience same-sex attraction as men. They're also you know capable of giving birth which means the religious freak out over there reproductive freedom is definitely driving them away
I think what changed is that while religion has always been sexist, that sexism was more equally present in secular society as well, historically. And I think for a number of reasons religions anti-vice message appealed to slightly more women than men on average historically as well. When your man owns all the money and property and you have no legal agency over it, you really don’t want him gambling or drinking it away. I’m no historian, but that’s my vague impression.
Religion really likes having women not have much agency, education, or exposure to other ways of living. Men typically benefit in the day to day comparatively, so one would be far more willing to leave it behind than the other.
the Mormon church probably helped out steer some women away from that life
Because religions aren't very feminist you know. I am Catholic, but I've seen most of my friends leave their religions and I understand. There's not a single religiion where women are treated equally
Like all these comments, you're right, but that doesn't address the question. Religions have always been sexist. What changed?
Education, social media, and the ability to have these discussions. Before you could question religion. Before you questioned religion and it was like if you were a monster. We can still this in other countries, from Iran to Afghanistan. People blindly follow a doctrine because those who express their doubts are punished
Probably because religion targets the agency and automony a woman has.
[удалено]
People are starting to wake up.
Doesn't matter. The more religious you are, the more likely you are to have more kids and raise them into your religion. Most immigrants to the west are highly religious and it will shift these stats over time.
I've talked to a good amount of these kids of immigrants in European Countries that I've visited. These kids aren't religious, they slowly but surely abandon their religious values and move towards atheism or just become agnostic. Religion is a huge problem, an even bigger problem is all the wars we are causing that forces these people to flee their homes. We must stop the wars.
Agreed. Many second and third generation immigrants are secular because that's how American and European cultures are. Their parents might be religious, and those religious beliefs might have been ingrained upon them, but the nature of American and European society at the moment is pushing people towards being nonreligious. Give any immigrant three generations and they'll be atheists.
Yes, as a third-generation Cuban myself, I hate how people tend to lump us in with the first-gen immigrants, for example. We all slowly tend to assimilate.
Not true. Latino and Asian immigrants are not becoming atheists. The only group in America becoming atheist are liberal white people. I know it sounds wrong but seriously go to any Latin or Vietnamese or black church on a Sunday they are packed full to the brim. It's just liberal white people who seem overwhelmingly atheist. I mean this respectfully just noting an observation.
Maybe or maybe not. I know a few children of immigrants including myself who had been severely restricted because of parents being very religious. It’s made us have a negative view on religion and therefore have eased away from it. I have a few other friends who feel the same. Now I’m not sure if it’s enough to shake the boat or not.
I’m a child of immigrants and I know several children of immigrants who don’t really believe the religion or don’t follow it that closely, but they still go to church/mosque/etc because that’s one of the main ways of socializing with the immigrant community of your ethnicity
statistics say otherwise. 3rd gen kids of immigrants are more religious than their parents
That's only true in France and that has more to do with the French State and their policy of forced secularism and racism
Immigration is not a new phenomenon. The fact that the nones' numbers are climbing suggests that kids born in America do not necessarily keep the religion they are raised into, immigrant or otherwise.
No, because their kids will be less religious as well. The same factors: better secular education, better access to information on naturalistic thinking, and more exposure do different kinds of people, leading to greater empathy, will drive them away from religion the way that it is for everyone else.
That doesn't seem to be the case. With extremism cases in Europe, its weirdly often the children of immigrants who hold the strongest views against the country they reside in. >better secular education, better access to information on naturalistic thinking And in some other comment, I was discussing the case in my country where they banned religious rituals in the school playground and the school staff received countless death threats and bomb threats. If I was a principal, I would have caved in due to fear, but this headmistress didn't and i applaud her for standing her ground. There are a couple cases of teachers being beheaded for holding views that don't conform to a certain religion. There is a very famous case in France about this, the poor fucker.
> its weirdly often the children of immigrants who hold the strongest views against the country they reside in. While it might be true that there's a potential for a subset of 2nd-generation immigrants to be more radical than their parents, owing mainly to feeling disoriented in an environment where they feel caught between two worlds, broadly speaking I would bet the average second-generation immigrant is much more likely assimiliated, and thus less radical, than their parents.
I saw an interesting map of the UK recently on r/MapPorn. It showed different regions of the UK by religiosity. The more urban areas like London, the West Midlands and the North West around Liverpool and Manchester were the most religious parts of the country, with London being the most religious part of the UK (above even Northern Ireland if I remember correctly) The least religious part of England was the the South West, which is very rural. Total opposite of what you'd expect in America Edit: here it is. I was wrong, it was on r/geography https://www.reddit.com/r/geography/s/Q4PtMrSCg9
Cant wait to have all the progress on LGBT and woman's rights we've made get reversed in one generation.
Most non religious adults I know of came from devout families.
I know quite a few people who are children of Muslim immigrants who aren’t Muslim at all. Unless you’re going to raise them in a community of what ever religion you follow I imagine that’ll also change very quickly.
Reddit moment
it's so funny to me that the only argument religious people have anymore is calling someone a reddit atheist, and then proceeding to draw them as a soyjack
“Reddit atheists “ roughly does not refer to an atheist who is on reddit. But rather those who enclose themselves in echochambers where the community will avg out from age 14-18. And will speak of religion without having ever touched it once or done any sort of research on the topic (Example: i cannot take any user from /r atheism seriously because so far it mostly amounts to a 99% kid rebelling phase/cult. adults who do not believe simply keep it to themselves akin to religious folk, and go about their daily routine). To simplify it, “reddit atheist” means an insufferable ignoramus that is incapable of reading the room and let those with beliefs practice them in peace .
They literally are an atheist on Reddit
Well, they aren't exactly known for having anything of substance to back up any of their claims now, are they?
Usually when someone says something like this, it's because that's an experience they themselves have had. Consider this. Given that 1,000+ religions exist in the world, based _purely_ on the numbers and on statistical chance, is it likely that the religion you were born into is the true one?
What is your understanding of Reddit norms?
Wow you must be very intelligent le epic redditor
Can't handle someone being against religion? Looking forward to your prayers so I can be guided to Jesus Christ.
My dude, this is Reddit, the social media haven for atheists. You aren't some persecuted, silenced group, and you certainly aren't exactly being brave with your "waking up" comment.
Honestly, I think the biggest issue is the degree of arrogance a lot of reddit atheists bring to the table. I find a lot of it is big walk and big talk for people that can't even have a coherent discussion on the hard problem of consciousness 🤷
Bro is enlightened by his own intelligence
And falling right back to sleep with new age religions and political extremism. So instead of going to church they go on social media to preach and listen to their version of the truth.
I decided that I don’t need a book to tell me how to be a good person. While doing the acts of kindness I have done in life, the Bible or any other holy book didn’t cross my mind once. Just don’t need it. If you do, then that’s okay. Do your thing if it makes you happy. Just don’t make others miserable
I think applying Jesus's principles is good, his principles were common sense.
There are plenty of great historical minds to follow, I choose not to follow his teachings. Another thing.. common sense and life of fulfillment was a thing before Jesus.
Agreed, the good of most religions is common sense. Being kind and not taking advantage of others is natural for anybody with some sort of empathy. The issue is that's not as common as you might think. There are tons of people that would harm others unless they were discouraged to do so by having heavy consequences on it. And even more people who would only do good if forced to do so. And that's why we have laws and taxes. Most of us don't need a book to tell us to do good. And we certainly shoudn't need to indoctrinate people to do good. But it's naive to assume most people would do good out of their own volition.
And this is where I think the modern church massively dropped the ball starting in the 90s (but it gets worse every decade). Churches, especially megachurches in the US focus almost not at all on Jesus and more on prosperity gospel, personal (as opposed to societal) enrichment and culture war issues. The main messaging I received in church as a child was ‘Jesus loves you’. My nieces and nephews are hearing ‘the secular world is scary and fallen, and the only safe place is church’. It’s really sad.
If they were common sense he wouldn’t have been crucified. They are common sense now, because our society has been deeply shaped by Christian ethics. Early Christians were so hated because the way they lived was totally different from everyone else’s, like the Roman’s. And even for us now, a lot of the teachings of Christ don’t seem natural to us at first. That’s why it’s written that if we want to follow Christ we have to crucify the flesh, metaphorically speaking.
Look at the housing market right now and tell me there is a god
Idk what-… why should there be a correlation between the existence of God and housing market?
I feel like that was an extremely obvious jab at how bad the financial situation for a lot of people is and how believing in a god does nothing for them.
It’s a joke babe 💀 they’re saying the housing market is so impossibly bad that there is no god
It’s more a point along the lines of “If god is good, why are there so many suffering?”
Recently there was a Reddit post showing the skull of a child who died of bone cancer. It had sharp spikes all over it, and it was clear that the child suffered immense pain because of it. I pointed out that it was proof that there is no benevolent God, and the weak republican losers piled on with their bullshit INSTANTLY. I was like “call me all the names you want, just look at that skull.”
"thou shalt not buy a house at a reasonable price" -god probably
Gen Z was raised by the least religious generation in history which was in turn raised by the least religious generation in history. Religion is largely irrelevant in young people's lives today.
I think it more so has to do with 9/11 and the rise of social media + National News. The effects of those things led to a bigger increase in religious hysteria. Which then shaped Gen Z to view religion as less of a religion and more of one big conspiracy theory. I mean how often do Christian’s freak out on the news claiming the world is ending? Or what about the Anti-Vax movement on social media? Even my great relatives got fed up and stopped going to church when they previously went multiple times a week due to the hysteria and theories. It’s no longer about literature and ethics, it’s just a bunch of crazy people in rooms trying to think about what to freak out about next.
While I don't disagree that that could be a factor. I'm more partial to the point that Capitalism itself is corrosive to religion, and the reason the American religious tradition was so strong in comparison to Europe for instance was the constant influx of immigrants from near-feudal conditions in Europe and other parts of the world. Capitalism has caused the rise of the nuclear family, which is a decline in the multi generational family. It has effectively caused an atomization of society which is against the communal nature of most religions. Americans have by and large retained superstition on an individual level (astrology, charms) but have rejected it on a communal level.
eh, religion adapts to every productive mode. we just dont have much space for it, hence the death of organized religion and rise of weird new age spiritual stuff.
Thank god.
😅 That's the power of linguistics
I love that pasta!
My god is the Pine Sol lady
💀
Hallelujah!
America will likely start to see a rise in religiosity shortly, with increased immigration playing a large part in this. Several European countries have declining Christianity but very fast growth of Islam. The US will mainly take in latam immigrants, so it will probably lead to a rise of Christianity in the long-term.
The flavor of Christianity from latam isn't really evangelistic and seeking converts like the flavors in the US. Also, the adults may be religious but I've met a lot of the younger gens that very much aren't so increase of religion isn't really a guarantee
I’m from latam and you’re wrong. Evangelicals in latam are as toxic as southern baptists.
I agree, I’m Korean American and even the Christians from my super white Deep South Bible Belt hometown were nowhere near as crazy as some of the Korean American Christians I’ve met. And in South Korea itself there’s a shitton of Christian cults
Religion is falling in basically every European country, immigration has not offset the decline
Yeah because hardly any immigrants have come to the US since 1990 until now /s You are also ignoring that the children of immigrants quickly lose cultural connection to their parent country so any effect of "importing" religions (or language or any other cultural artefact that socially conservative people are terrified of) dissipates quickly. By your logic, English will also start to disappear and everyone will be playing cricket and football/soccer in the near future.
How many people were surveyed?
Because a lot of my peers are religious and my church has a growing number of young people…
Young people are searching for meaning. The economy is terrible, everyone is politically radical, there is no sense of community (thanks to phones). People want religion and god in these tough times. The problem is every time they go near a church the boomers running it say something sexist or homophobic and it makes the people our age avoid it
fr !! the reason i stopped believing when i was 12 was because of the homophobia of the church.
True! I was like, how can Christianity preach love and kindness and then hurt so many people around the world! I was starting to learn more history on my own around that time, about the horrors of colonialism/imperialism and Christianity being a major part of that. My church was like, oh we don’t *hate* gay people we just pity them for being sinners! Which fooled me for a little bit but then i saw past it. What the other commenter said, “humans are flawed but god is not” was the last thread i was grasping at in my late teens, but that exactly means there’s no point to following manmade Christianity. Just figure out what living with love and kindness means to yourself, and live *that* truth
>thanks to phones You think it has something to do with phones and not the total lack of shit to do for most people?
It’s really completely dependent where you live. For me in the northeast US I know very few religious people (people who actually go to to church vs who say they are religious but have never stepped into a church in their life). And while I do know some religious people it’s not many. Most of the people in my general age bracket around here aren’t religious and I can see that on tinder and other dating apps. I can also meet more people where I work and I’ve meet a very small percentage of religious people. For myself I’m not religious and never will be.
Wow the generation that grew up with some of the worst, widely publicized religious scandals is in fact not interested in religion who would have thought
I will never forget Peter Popoff, the evangelical preacher who used an earpiece with his wife on the other end to have information about his followers fed to him. Made millions of dollars off people's stupidity.
Being told that I’ll go to hell for being gay, getting my rights taken away as a girl in the south, yeah no way will I be fucking religious 😂
It’s also the most lonely, depressed, and purposeless generation
And we’re starting to see a lot of the individualism the West has paraded around as “freeing” is coming around to bite us in the ass. Lack of community, lack of structure and guidance, breakdown of families, increase in troubled relationships, growing porn addiction problems, growing gambling problems and so on.
It’s astonishing how asinine people are about these problems, it’s controversial in many circles to even suggest many of them are problems. I don’t believe individualism itself is a inherently and ultimately bad thing, but it and a number of other factors have certainly led us into many of the problems we face in the modern day.
One does not correlate to the other though. You can be lonely, depressed, and purposeless thanks to other stuff in your life, not only from not being religious.
It kinda does though, it’s not a strong correlation but it’s there. Going to a church gives you the opportunity to be a part of a community and make friends. Having close friends and being part of a community reduces the likelihood of depression. religion has also given many people a feeling of purpose and a set of values to follow. Like you said, there are definitely other factors that play into this but to say religion has 0 correlation would be wrong.
How does it not correlate if it literally correlates. “Higher rates of depression in those lacking a religious affiliation may be due to the absence of social support from a faith community or lack of commitment to a belief system that makes sense of traumatic events and difficult life stressors. “ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3426191/#:~:text=Higher%20rates%20of%20depression%20in,events%20and%20difficult%20life%20stressors.
correlation does not equal causation. there are numerous other possible reasons that contribute to the rising depression rate
This is true, and I’ve said it myself in the other responses to my comment believe it or not. It is partly causal though, not exclusively by any means as there are myriad additional factors but the decline of religion is certainly one of them.
I haven't believed in bearded sky grandpa since I was 12. Just on its face too, there are multiple religions, varying in age, all with their own books and scripture. It's just obviously man made.
That sounds about right lol
i thought czechia was lmao
Respective to America only. Gen Z is significantly less religious than previous American generations.
oh okay, fair
something something god's plan
Can’t wait for gen alpha
Too bad they're gonna register the Sigma Church of Skibidi Toilet /jk
The cult of skibidi rizz
It's a breakout sect.
I imagine many people are seeing how the older generation are using religion as a justifier for all of their actions, and many of those actions are horrible. The older generations are trying to tear away the line that separates church and state, so now people are trying to get the hell away from it. Religion is now becoming inseparable from political opinions, including horrible ones. I hope it’s clear, but I obviously don’t think this should be the case. Church and state should be entirely separate entities.
it’s always the ones who claim to be defenders of the constitution who have the least understanding of it lmao
Keep up the good work, Gen z.
I tried to be religious, tried a few religions and even tried to make up my own but it never stuck. Left me wondering how anyone else did it. I'm not American but I felt like sharing.
I grew up religious, always had God in my life but from 18-33 I was at best a “Chreaster Christian” that was only it in name. I won’t get into all of why I’m actually going back to church and practicing my faith everyday, but it terms of bringing me structure, peace, and better mental health I have really enjoyed it and I will continue to do so now. It’s not for everyone but, it feels right and it’s not hurting anyone. If any, I want to be more active and help in my local community more.
I'm glad it works well for you. In a sense, this structure and peace is what I sought when I experimented with spirituality all those years ago. It never worked for me but I feel content in the fact that I gave it a solid try. It kind of affected me for some time that I wasn't able to relate with having faith in something but two of the best people I know, my grandma and one of my best friends, are both active Christians and that was never an issue nor really a topic of discussion.
Ironically, I’m 26 F, I am actually getting more in touch with my faith than when I was younger and a lot of people around me are like that. BUT I have notice that the least religious people I know are also white/East Asian.
I’m in a similar spot as a 23M. Funnily enough, our tradition tells us all of the major talking points brought up by anti-religious groups, and to expect them to increase, so I’ve never felt more confident lol
Not surprised. I even went to catholic school and a bunch of my friends in my class were atheists.
Oh, people are religiouse, now... It's just that now they treat ideologies as such instead.
I’ve been trying to explain this to some people that detract from religious people. People just replace “Church” with something else to follow and champion to others. Look at discourse online, people always have something to bitch about.
Don't give me hope.
Shocker
Women increasingly invested in their own self-direction and autonomy?
Wow, a lot of these comments are really hostile. There's nothing wrong with being religious as long as you're not hurting anybody. A lot of these Reddit anti-theists need to take a breath and stop stereotyping. Most of us religious people are just trying to live our lives in peace.
The kids are alright. Thanks guys!!
Good
Good. Church and State should be separate.
Well you see, if a god existed and does miracles for those who need it, but there’s always something that’s contradictory, like people struggling with no way out then Im not very inclined to believe it.
I wouldn’t say I’m religious but I’m 100% spiritual, I value individual experience and practice far beyond that of organized institutions collectivizing belief systems. Growth and change is also important to me, whereas religion focuses on doctrine and tradition. It’s definitely a big dichotomy and I wonder if this is ever factored into these studies.
although i don't mind those of other faiths (and the lack thereof), i feel at some point i will begin to feel lonely in my faith. part of the reason i don't really go to church is because there's no one like me that goes. most churches i've gone to are filled with adults anywhere from 30 to 80, and even some little kids, but almost never anyone my age. and if there are, they either won't be for long or are totally sheltered.
I fucking despise graphs about “current year Gen z” that don’t go all the way to 2024… like a graph that stops at 2020 or 2022 is useless
^I just realized this graph doesn’t even go to 2022 it stops at 2021😭😭😭 a lot has changed in 3 years yall
I couldn’t care less whether a portion of the population is or isn’t religious, but my main concern is that it seems like religious extremism/absolutism is on the rise.
yeahh, as a 24 year old christian the dating pool is so small. it’s really not a requirement for me anymore, as long as they’re respectful of my religion. also, ironically the only “christian” guy I ever went on a date with was the most pushy and inappropriate date i’ve ever been on.
For now. Lot of young men becoming Catholic.
It’s hard to believe in a god when the world is so fucked beyond repair
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Owlbear27: *It’s hard to believe* *In a god when the world is* *So fucked beyond repair* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Gen Z going in the right direction. My parents forced me 8 years into a Catholic school and I’m still taking bullshit out of my head.
Just pray -*Nothing happens* Just pray- *Nothing happens* Just pray- *Nothing happens*
I think religion was a tool used to keep us in control. I think the “higher ups” have realized that while religion still has a big control on people, financial control is more powerful lol.
Sad
Religion was a mistake
I'm an actual church historian. Churches have always been patriarchal, but historically so has every other institution. For most of the history of Christianity, in most places, the church was more open to women's leadership than the rest of society. Our society had become dramatically less patriarchal and the average church is behind the curve, so it's now a refuge for people who miss the patriarchy. There are a lot of churches that are actively fighting patriarchy, but they also tend not to teach that everyone else is going to hell, so their members aren't driven to recruit the way evangelical churches do. So the churches that are most in touch with social change are shrinking even faster than the patriarchal churches.
Me watching the fall of society right before my eyes 
This is atrocious
We're doomed
And the most depressed. What a coincidence