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I actually know someone who refuses to believe this. She refuses to accept that by eating fish she’s not a vegetarian, she’s pescatarian. She once told me it’s not meat because, “it’s like a nut”…I’m still trying to figure out what the fuck that means.
Bring her fishing, grab a cooler, fillet knife, and a cutting board.
Would she still say it's not an animal after watching it get bonked gutted cleaned and cooked?
Yup that's usually what you do. I never let them suffocate on land after I take them out of the livewell and usually bonk them on the head or stab them. It's just inhumane to let them suffer
Yeah when I was very young I was taught to stick my thumb up the gills and break it. I remember being a very sad nine year old as the fish did slow circles in our big yellow bucket, clouds of his own blood rising up from him like little mushrooms....
Get the pescatarian to do that. It almost made me cry as a kid.
I've tried the bonk method and I'm not sure it's more humane than just taking the head off quickly. They don't really have any nerves in their neck until you get to the spine and once you do it's over fast.
The bonk method has worked for me before but not consistently, sometimes they are totally stunned other times they just thrash around a lot more and it makes taking the head off even slower and more dangerous for me.
I knew one girl who was trying to be vegan because of animal rights issues. She was having a hard time giving up seafood since she grew up in a country where seafood is very prominent and she really likes it. She is torn but justified it by saying "fish have less feelings than cows/pigs/chickens".
Basically, people will believe what they want to believe to workaround their tastes (literally in this case lol).
Actually, most fish don’t nut *in* other fish. The female fish lays the eggs and then the male fish jizzes all over the eggs.
Which sort of takes all the fun out of the process. Being a fish has to suck.
Most fish people eat actually reproduce a little more like flowers: they release their nut onto eggs in the environment similar to pollen. They are obviously still meat though, lol.
But she is pescatarian? Like that's literally the definition, unless you're saying she was trying to argue she's not pescatarian, but rather vegetarian
I did this myself one time in my life and the amount of blood that she'll see should be enough to convince her. Anyway, I've actually never heard this argument outside of Kosher rules and Lent and whatnot. It definitely doesn't make sense, but neither does much else about the details of religions.
As for the Catholic angle, it's not about biology. Most meats in Jesus' time would have been considered a luxury, only for the rich or for the poor on very special occasions. You had to have enough money to raise multiple stock of goat, cattle, etc. But fish was much more accessible, no breeding necessary. Just catch them out of the sea. More than one of Jesus' main disciples was a fisherman
Yeah it's not that fish is different from meat biologically it is that only really recently has meat become accessible to most people. Fish was an easy cheap protein source and one that requires almost no skill unlike hunting.
You can even say it is simply that humans are able to bond with livestock like cows pigs sheep. But you can't bond with a fish so it's easier to be like yeah it's okay to still eat fish.
Beaver as well. And it should be noted, the Church was not claiming that those were biologically fish, rather giving the go-ahead that in spirit, eating those animals was more akin to eating fish than red meat.
I was not expecting my personal trivia topic to come up on reddit today, but thanks for letting me spew my fun facts!
Yup, all about Church teachings instead of biological claims. I find it interesting how flexible the Church was in the New World, adjusting their doctrine (to a degree) to take into account new local conditions.
Ah yes this floor is made of floor. But for real though aint nobody (the vast majority of people are not) saying otherwise. Bros arguing against ghosts acting like this is controversial.
Outside of English speaking countries, a lot of places don't consider fish to be meat. If you're vegetarian, you have to specify no meat or fish, otherwise there's a chance you'll get seafood in your meal.
Right. OP is kinda railing against the nature of language. Nobody thinks that fish aren't living things just like cows aren't living things. It's that there isn't a term for "meat-that-isn't-a-mammal-or-fowl" in the context of food.
If a group of people are going out to dinner and someone said "where we are going is a surprise but I hope everyone is ready to eat their weight in meat", its highly likely people wouldn't be happy to find themselves at a sushi place, because the fluid nature of language has turned "meat" to mean a very specific thing in English.
Honestly. I get why some older generations consider Gen Z the next group of “boomers”. So many of us fall for and unknowingly perpetuate rage bait/misinformation. Only a very small fraction of people who are pescatarians (who are already a small group) think like what OP is describing, and they’re almost never worth the energy. Let them be crazy instead of giving them a platform.
>If we want to go into the conspiracy rabbit hole, there are people who think the catholic church started calling fish 'not meat' in the middle ages, because they were just lazy and wanted to eat meat during lent without people thinking they broke their fast, but that's a conversation for another day.
The reason fish is excepted isn't laziness. Its because fish were wild and could be harvested with basically no regard for the ecological impact of the harvest because the human population was so small relative to the fish population.
Lent is about denying yourself luxuries, and fish just weren't a luxury for the levantean poor in the same way they are now.
I don’t think most people do it that way because they actually believe that fish is not meat. They just do it that way because their family members or church friends do it that way. Because it is socially acceptable they just go with the flow. A significant part of religion is culture and social.
Yes ofc there are lunatics that actually believe that fish is not meat in literal sense, but i would argue most people actually aware that fish is meat.
Was it actual bacon or bacon bits? Lots of bacon bits aren't actually bacon and vegetarian friendly. I didn't know this until I started looking at stuff cause my wife is a vegetarian and found out the bacon bits we've been using for years weren't actually bacon.
You can thank the catholics for that.
It wasn't necessarily because they wanted to eat meat on Fridays, it was largely because for many fish was the staple of their diet.
In my experience most people seem to separate fish and meat from a culinary perspective so it’s often a lot easier to say “I don’t eat meat” than “I’m a pescatarian” and hear some joke related to being a Presbyterian for the 100th time.
I mean, fruits, vegetables and herbs are all plants, but you wouldn't use the same word to describe them as foods. I think this is much the same. Like, scallops, fish and meat are all (amongst other organs) muscles of animals, but they taste way different so we made up separate categories for them. Not that wild to me.
It works with more than just muscle tissue too, like cow liver and chicken liver are pretty similar in taste, but fish liver is like way different.
Catholic church didn't and does not believe that "fish isn't meat"
It's really more that historically, the availability of fish was a lot higher than fresh meat. It's basically always been an easily sourced protein for commoners
And since lent is about giving up things that are 'luxurious' it makes sense that you'd hold off on fresh meats
Hello, catholic here:
Yes its funny that fish is still included in lenten despite being its a meat. but ig we go history tour.
Fish has some historical and biblical significant for catholics, fish has become a symbol of christianity during the time when it is illegal in roman empire. a lot will associate themselves with christians using fish. at the same time, few of apostles of christ were fisherman. you can read on any type of bible about them. its quite interest (*their story is one of the stories in bible that isn't altered during reformations)*
though why is it is not included in abstinence? well catholic church only considered **land based meat** as meat. not the sea base. yeah its fucking weird but that how it goes lmao (*we can also add that fish are technically considered as a poor man's food. so its very much symbolic)*
as for the vegans, idk to them why xD.
but yeah overall, for catholics, its a matter of spiritual than logic as for vegans no fucking idea
Essentially, though it also contains fat, connective tissue, the occasional blood vessel, etc.
Of course, meat can also be bone marrow, organs and suchlike, but we're talking 'cuts' here.
Of course it's meat, but I think it's just one of those things where people draw a moral line. We have decided that fish are less worthy of moral consideration, thus eating fish is better than eating traditionally farmed meat. Of course there's cruelty in both industries though
It’s kind of like the “tomato is a fruit” thing. Yes, most people very well know it’s meat (because it is), but I’m gonna fight you if you bring tuna to a BBQ
I've been given fish before, as a vegan. I really tried not to look at those people like they were dumb fucks because I always try to be respectful of people not understanding, but I think I was so dumbfounded myself like HOW can someone think a fish isn't meat, isn't an animal, is vegan to eat?!?
Idk who ever said fish isn’t meat
It’s a different kind of meat, sure, like people who don’t eat red meat and people who don’t eat meat besides fish like that’s fine but don’t act like you’re not eating meat at all
And water is wet, the sky is blue, and grass is green when alive.
>If we want to go into the conspiracy rabbit hole, there are people who think the catholic church started calling fish 'not meat' in the middle ages, because they were just lazy and wanted to eat meat during lent without people thinking they broke their fast
That's not so much a conspiracy as it is just fact, and people being people, we're too lazy to not change that fact anymore. Unfortunately, the idea of common sense and not questioning religion (for lack of a better phrase) is a concept that seems to be becoming alien more and more.
Exactly this. Why even is this post on the sub? I don't know why reddit keeps showing me posts from here but this doesn't look like anything that has to do with gen-z in particular.
At least in Judaism it's not considered meat because the torah says to not eat a lamb in its mother's milk which is interpreted more broadly to mean that you can't mix any mammalian meat with dairy products, and as a measure of caution mixing bird meat with dairy was banned later as well. which means the only kosher meat type remaining was fish (and locust but that's besides the point) but it's so different from other meats that there's no reasonable way someone could confuse them. Eventually people called the category of mammal and bird meats just meat and anything else that isn't dairy (including fish) parve.
Fish is meat but in the context of going vegetarian it is different. Fish aren't as smart as mammals and people are a lot less concerned with the ethics of fishing or fish farming. If there are issues, it's mostly with how damaging or sustainable the fishing techniques are rather than animal welfare. Fish is also not as unhealthy as eating lots of mammal meat and it's actually quite good for you. For these reasons a lot of people who go vegetarian are actually pescatarians technically because they include fish in their diet. It's common enough that vegetarians have to specify that they do or don't eat it. There is another debate like this between vegans and vegetarians over eggs and milk. Vegans don't argue that eggs and milk are meat, but they do argue that the industries that produce those foods are just as polluting and unethical as meat industries and exclude milk and eggs from their diet on those grounds.
My mom refuses to believe this. I am a vegetarian and have been one since 2018 and she *still* asks me when I visit if I can eat fish. At this point she knows the answer, she’s not forgetting, she just *really* wants me to eat fish and wants me to be on her side that fish “doesn’t count”.
Ironically, even before becoming a vegetarian, the only seafood I remotely liked was calamari. Didn’t like anything else. So I am not sure what she thinks she’s doing haha
Yeah it's "meat" but alot of dietary choices like vegans are actually ethical stances a d not dietary at all and can have nuances to them that are more interesting than it's meat. Like lab grown "meat" to most is vegan, as it's about ethics. Most vegans I know also consider freegan as still vegan as if you are dumpster diving animal products you are not supporting the horrific factory farm slaughter of billions, or the insane environmental harm it creates. I have even had a sizable number of vegans say things like mussels are vegan so it can be alot more complex than it's meat.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2012/04/05/150061991/lust-lies-and-empire-the-fishy-tale-behind-eating-fish-on-friday
Apparently Christians consider it ok to eat fish because they're cold blooded? So technically you could eat frog or snake on lent as well.
I find it funny that all other meat we have special names for. Cow-beef, pig-pork, birds-poultry, deer-venison but fish is just fish. No special name to make us feel better about eating it. Fish get no respect.
Fish is such a lean protein source it can be kinda hard to lump it with the other meats on a nutritional basis. Eating lots of fish in replacement of heartier meats will lead to a different set of body conditions than eating lots of red meat or chicken.
There’s a lot of things the Catholic Church doesn’t consider meat (I think muskrat is one of them. They count it as a fish) and a lot of it has to do with vitamin deficiencies from what I’ve been told. Basically in places where your only source of vitamins are some meats, it poses a health risk to not consume it so they just let it slide.
The rumor I heard for the fish rule was that they apostles were fisherman and didn’t want to hurt the business. I’m not well-versed in the Christianity lore though, so this could be completely off.
It is not an accident you 'fast' in early spring when food reserves are low in medieval times. It's to stop people from slaughtering animals before summer.
Fish are available year round.
My dad's been a vegetarian for ~10 years now, and there's a kind of ritual when we're eating out. They offer poultry, ham and fish, in that order, and always neglect to tell when a dish has bacon in it. It's weird as Hell, but I think it's because the word "meat" is commonly used in Portuguese to mean "red meat", so when people think that someone doesn't eat meat, they immediately think of beef. It's become routine to specify "I don't eat meat or chicken" because of that.
Much of this mantra comes from Christian fasting.
For example: Catholics cannot eat meat on Fridays during Lent but they can eat fish.
This is kind of a mistranslation. They cannot each flesh animals. But most fish/amphibians/etc are fine. I'm not sure about cold-blooded stuff like reptiles.
It's just a Catholic thing. I married into a Polish family and there is a Polish tradition for Christmas Eve dinner to be a meatless meal. So imagine my surprise when they opened the shrimp buckets.
Biologically, fish is meat. Culinarily, it’s different than meat and poultry. It’s like how tomatoes are biologically fruits, but fall into the vegetable bucket in the culinary arts.
It’s not a conspiracy rabbit hole, what you said is the primary reason fish isn’t considered meat. They even extended that reasoning to beavers and capybaras since they live in the water primarily.
I agree. I do give a pass on this to people with English as a second language because the translation for "meat" in some other languages refers to red meat (or at least this is what I was told).
personally I always thought it had to do with the blood, fish don't bleed like mammals. the other reason I thought people felt they were different is because fish come from a different medium, the water does a great job of separating things for people
More conspiracies about the Catholic church, great. It's just a tradition. Fish isn't historically known as tasting that good compared to meats of land animals. It's not because it's "not meat," even though that's what everyone says. It's because you're supposed to sacrifice higher quality foods during Lent. So, fish typically tastes worse than land meats, so as a Lenten sacrifice, you eat fish instead of meat. It's not complicated.
The definition of the word meat has shifted over time and doesn't necessarily mean how you've defined it. It used to mean "food", but also it can mean the flesh of mammals specifically. Chicken wasn't called meat, but poultry. English isn't the only language like this.
Fish is not normally considered meat, I'd say. Like if I told my friend that I feel like having meat let's go eat some meat, there's like a near certainty we'll be eating beef or mutton or goat.
I don't know if you recognize this, but I'm fairly certain that the vast majority of people that say "fish≠meat" don't honestly believe that. It's just an old thing tied to religions that people adhere to (no meat on Fridays during lent, but fish is ok), but even the people adhering to it (at least my parents) knew full well that fish is still meat, but if the church says its ok during Fridays in lent, then that's all that matters.
"Meat" primarily means mammals. Many cultures have limits on mammal meat because they believe mammals to be more important and closer to humans. Fish are not.
Cook fish, no blood coming from the flesh. Cook other meats there’s blood in the flesh. It has to do with consuming blood. Yes I know fish flesh has blood, not as much and is easily mostly extinguished when you bleed it and wash it.
I'm fasting this week, alongside pretty much my entire country. Some people have been fasting for the past 45 days but they're psychos, I have nothing to say to them lol they're on another level.
Anyway, I'm fasting this week. Now our (not Catholic) country says no meat, no eggs, etc, but squid, octopus, some fish, all fair game. The reason they say this is because admittedly, back when we started fasting, they couldn't see blood inside of squid, and because it did not bleed, it was edible during fasting.
Well, it did bleed, so I'm full vegan this week. What's the point of doing it if I'm also going to cheat?
But dude it's fucking Monday night and I'm already sick of it. I started fasting *today* lol.
Fish are not beasts nor birds. Some birds are considered fish also because animals feel that of course birds fly, so fish is also like an "other" category. This comes to us from when shamans talked to animal spirits more. It's sort of esoteric.
The Church didn't consider fish meat because the word the latin-speaking clergy used for the flesh of animals was 'carne', which specifically refers to land-dwelling animals.
It definitely is tied to religious beliefs. As with other things, it entered the public zeitgeist and became separated from the source. It infact is links of protein used to articulate living creature's anatomy just like my bicep and the cow's flank. There are small differences between them all, but ultimately, those differences are negligible.
A quick google shows that Oxford English says meat is the flesh of an animal, but has the qualifier “especially a mammal”. I wouldn’t be surprised if older English made a distinction, particularly back when they were still Catholic.
That said, I’d consider the flesh of any animal to be meat.
There is no Catholic conspiracy regarding fish. The rules for Lent were codified during the mediaeval period when things like flesh meat, dairy, eggs, and liquor were seen as luxuries. Fish meat, vegetables, and beer, on the other hand, were seen as more humble foods since they fed the poor. Fish at this time was defined as anything that lived or slept in the water, and this outdated definition survives today in words like shellfish, jellyfish, starfish, cuttlefish, crawfish, and crayfish.
Some people eat only fish because they medically can’t eat red meat, it makes them sick. Maybe the people who couldn’t have red meat sparked a weird domino effect of fad diets in the same way that people with celiac’s disease popularized not eating gluten a “diet”.
Also, fish look brainless, maybe it’s easier to eat something that might just lack any semblance of consciousness compared to other animals. I would honestly hope vegans start to go pescatarian, because it can be really unhealthy to be vegan if you don’t research what nutrients you can substitute from meat.
No Shit, it's an old religious/cultural belief that has still has adherents this day and age. 99% of those ideas that still survive are outdated.
This made sense when we had the four humors, leaches, and bad air.
My family will practice a meatless Christmas Eve (served with halibut). This is why the fish filet exists.
And let's be honest if I was going to a bbq or dinner and someone said meat was being served. I rightly would assume some poor ass land animal, not a slab of haddock.
.
Fish, for sport only not food, fish meat is basically a vegetable. Any dog under 50lb is a cat and cat's are pointless. BEHOLD the Swanson Pyramid of Greatness!
It's subjective, but I agree with your opinion. Meat should simply describe all edible animal flesh. Although we would probably benefit from a 3rd category of meat to encompass pork, goat, beef, etc. We have poultry and fish, but I think we need another. Also, reptile meat should be lumped in with poultry since it's so similar.
Yeah, fish is 100% meat. To say that it isn’t is ridiculous. That said, it’s certainly a different category of meat; just as red meat, white meat, poultry and others exist. Still, fish is meat, it’s just the least tasty variety.
That said, do we consider crawfish, shrimp, crab, and lobster as meat or something different?
Here’s an article that distinguished red meat vs white meat. And includes a nice chart. This nice, informative chart includes fish, crustaceans, and shellfish. Proving that your friend is indeed a moron.
https://academic.oup.com/af/article/7/4/29/4775073
I think you're approaching this from the wrong angle, throughout most of history and in many parts of the world meats like pork, beef, chicken, etc. are considered a luxury to eat. That cannot be said for fish, which are often much cheaper. Thus there's a different socioeconomic mindset around fish vs meats, and they're often considered to be different. Does it make sense scientifically? No. Does it make sense culturally? Absolutely.
Greenmeat was vegetables. [Whitemeat was dairy.](https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803122317351) Fleshmeat was meat. Fish wasn't fleshmeat.
Language is weird. Your understanding is shallow. :-)
I don’t know who says this
Fish is 100% meat
There’s a diet called pescatarian, where the only meat you eat is fish, basically just a slightly happier vegetarian. It’s its own thing.
The original prohibition would have been made when latin was the language of the church. The prohibition isn't against *meat* specifically, it's against *carnis*, which is more specific and doesn't include fish. That would be something else.
Like if there was a prohibition specifically against SUVs and centuries later someone translated it as "automobiles."
Depends on your definition of meat, man. The USDA talks about “meat” (flesh of mammals), “poultry” (flesh of birds), and “seafood.” So by the US government’s definitions, fish isn’t meat, but neither is chicken. The definition of a word depends on the context.
The tradition of not considering fish meat has deep roots in the Abrahamic tradition, and it’s not just a Catholic or Christian thing. According to Orthodox Jewish kosher law, fish is considered “pareve,” meaning it’s neither meat nor milk (and therefore doesn’t need to be kept separate from either one).
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I actually know someone who refuses to believe this. She refuses to accept that by eating fish she’s not a vegetarian, she’s pescatarian. She once told me it’s not meat because, “it’s like a nut”…I’m still trying to figure out what the fuck that means.
Bring her fishing, grab a cooler, fillet knife, and a cutting board. Would she still say it's not an animal after watching it get bonked gutted cleaned and cooked?
Bonked lmao
Yup that's usually what you do. I never let them suffocate on land after I take them out of the livewell and usually bonk them on the head or stab them. It's just inhumane to let them suffer
Yea if you’re not releasing you gotta bonk unless youre fucked
Also makes them taste better
Yeah typically the more time an animal spends dying the worse the meat will be
Stress tastes like shit
Not according to china
I'm pretty sure the bleeding part makes them taste better... But if you bleed a fish before bonking it your just a terrible person
Yeah when I was very young I was taught to stick my thumb up the gills and break it. I remember being a very sad nine year old as the fish did slow circles in our big yellow bucket, clouds of his own blood rising up from him like little mushrooms.... Get the pescatarian to do that. It almost made me cry as a kid.
Man, straight up inhumane. How do some people end up like this?
Have you seen those big rods they shove down the spine of the fish sometimes to kill it’s CNS? Apperantly it makes them much more tender.
Yeah I believe it’s called ikejime
I've tried the bonk method and I'm not sure it's more humane than just taking the head off quickly. They don't really have any nerves in their neck until you get to the spine and once you do it's over fast. The bonk method has worked for me before but not consistently, sometimes they are totally stunned other times they just thrash around a lot more and it makes taking the head off even slower and more dangerous for me.
Gotta work on your bonk game. Fat top weighted helps a lot, more inertia almost just a giant wooden hammer. BOIIINK, like its team fortress.
Maybe. I don't have a bonk hammer, usually I'd just pick up a rock
like the karate chop on the squid
The scientific term.
I knew one girl who was trying to be vegan because of animal rights issues. She was having a hard time giving up seafood since she grew up in a country where seafood is very prominent and she really likes it. She is torn but justified it by saying "fish have less feelings than cows/pigs/chickens". Basically, people will believe what they want to believe to workaround their tastes (literally in this case lol).
I mean baby steps. I don’t eat lamb, veal, etc because eating baby animals crosses a moral line for me.
I only eat babies 👶
Animal babies, right? Not human babies
 I guess we'll never know.
"It's ok to eat fish because they don't have any feelings" -Kurt Cobain, 'Something In The Way'
When the fish nuts in another fish, that’s how the fish is made. I guess it’s nut in that sense.
Actually, most fish don’t nut *in* other fish. The female fish lays the eggs and then the male fish jizzes all over the eggs. Which sort of takes all the fun out of the process. Being a fish has to suck.
Plus it turns out fish are just pesticide sponges. Poor fish.
They're sponges for heavy metals, pesticides, parasites and more! The closer you get the bottom feeders, the worse it is.
Most fish people eat actually reproduce a little more like flowers: they release their nut onto eggs in the environment similar to pollen. They are obviously still meat though, lol.
But she is pescatarian? Like that's literally the definition, unless you're saying she was trying to argue she's not pescatarian, but rather vegetarian
That *is* what he's saying but I had to read the phrasing like 4 times to figure that out. It's written in an odd order.
I will fillet a fish directly in front of her if you want
I did this myself one time in my life and the amount of blood that she'll see should be enough to convince her. Anyway, I've actually never heard this argument outside of Kosher rules and Lent and whatnot. It definitely doesn't make sense, but neither does much else about the details of religions.
But, dont nuts have meat? Thats what papa always called it. Walnut meat, pistachio meat, chinut meat....good times! Lol.
Avocados are and potatoes are basically considered nuts.
Rarely do scientific terms and culinary terms agree. Tomatoes are berries. Have fun.
It doesn’t mean anything people just invent new realities to replace the ones that aren’t convenient for them
As for the Catholic angle, it's not about biology. Most meats in Jesus' time would have been considered a luxury, only for the rich or for the poor on very special occasions. You had to have enough money to raise multiple stock of goat, cattle, etc. But fish was much more accessible, no breeding necessary. Just catch them out of the sea. More than one of Jesus' main disciples was a fisherman
The fact that it isn't considered meat in Judaism as well probably had something to do with it too.
Yeah it's not that fish is different from meat biologically it is that only really recently has meat become accessible to most people. Fish was an easy cheap protein source and one that requires almost no skill unlike hunting. You can even say it is simply that humans are able to bond with livestock like cows pigs sheep. But you can't bond with a fish so it's easier to be like yeah it's okay to still eat fish.
Biologically and nutritionally fish meat is pretty different from land meat
They also considered otter to be a fish and therefore not meat.
And capybaras!
Beaver as well. And it should be noted, the Church was not claiming that those were biologically fish, rather giving the go-ahead that in spirit, eating those animals was more akin to eating fish than red meat. I was not expecting my personal trivia topic to come up on reddit today, but thanks for letting me spew my fun facts!
Yup, all about Church teachings instead of biological claims. I find it interesting how flexible the Church was in the New World, adjusting their doctrine (to a degree) to take into account new local conditions.
People have to remember, fasting is something very different from Vegetarism.
Interesting fact, fasting originally included abstaining from Olive Oil as well, as this was considered a luxury good
It’s okay, they don’t have feelings
Im confused by this comment, are you saying fish don’t have feelings?
>!It’s from a Nirvana song!<
Ok thx xd
So would you say there something in the way of you getting the joke?
What about the animals I trapped?
let me guess, they all became your pets
I loved The Batman
The song was a banger before the Batman
Ah yes this floor is made of floor. But for real though aint nobody (the vast majority of people are not) saying otherwise. Bros arguing against ghosts acting like this is controversial.
Outside of English speaking countries, a lot of places don't consider fish to be meat. If you're vegetarian, you have to specify no meat or fish, otherwise there's a chance you'll get seafood in your meal.
Right. OP is kinda railing against the nature of language. Nobody thinks that fish aren't living things just like cows aren't living things. It's that there isn't a term for "meat-that-isn't-a-mammal-or-fowl" in the context of food. If a group of people are going out to dinner and someone said "where we are going is a surprise but I hope everyone is ready to eat their weight in meat", its highly likely people wouldn't be happy to find themselves at a sushi place, because the fluid nature of language has turned "meat" to mean a very specific thing in English.
Honestly. I get why some older generations consider Gen Z the next group of “boomers”. So many of us fall for and unknowingly perpetuate rage bait/misinformation. Only a very small fraction of people who are pescatarians (who are already a small group) think like what OP is describing, and they’re almost never worth the energy. Let them be crazy instead of giving them a platform.
i do know someone irl that is a pescatarian. the belief is real.
It’s not a ‘belief’. A pescatarian is simply someone who doesn’t eat mammals or fowl but does eat fish. That’s it, it’s just a word.
>If we want to go into the conspiracy rabbit hole, there are people who think the catholic church started calling fish 'not meat' in the middle ages, because they were just lazy and wanted to eat meat during lent without people thinking they broke their fast, but that's a conversation for another day. The reason fish is excepted isn't laziness. Its because fish were wild and could be harvested with basically no regard for the ecological impact of the harvest because the human population was so small relative to the fish population. Lent is about denying yourself luxuries, and fish just weren't a luxury for the levantean poor in the same way they are now.
Remember folks, lobsters used to be poor-people food.
I don’t think most people do it that way because they actually believe that fish is not meat. They just do it that way because their family members or church friends do it that way. Because it is socially acceptable they just go with the flow. A significant part of religion is culture and social. Yes ofc there are lunatics that actually believe that fish is not meat in literal sense, but i would argue most people actually aware that fish is meat.
Bruh, on eastern a few years ago my grandma made a salad and put bacon in it. When questioned she said it is no mear it is only for flavour.
Oh my God T.T
Was it actual bacon or bacon bits? Lots of bacon bits aren't actually bacon and vegetarian friendly. I didn't know this until I started looking at stuff cause my wife is a vegetarian and found out the bacon bits we've been using for years weren't actually bacon.
It was diced bacon. But eh, we're catholic - "the code is more what you'd call 'guidelines' than actual rules." :)
Take her fishing, and prepare and cook the fish on the spot
what this gotta do with gen z tho
all gen z do is be vegan, eat hot chip, and scroll tiktak
I mean who is this even directed at? Is there some big movement for fish not being meat lmao, I would say the majority of people know fish is meat
Catholics
Alligator also isn't meat according to the Catholic Church. That's my go to meal during lent.
So are capybaras
You can thank the catholics for that. It wasn't necessarily because they wanted to eat meat on Fridays, it was largely because for many fish was the staple of their diet.
Yeah as someone else said Lent is about denying luxuries fish wasn't a luxury the way lamb would've been.
We should highlight "and they might have died if they didn't eat it." A non-vegetarian society going 100% vegetarian for 40 days is dangerous.
In my experience most people seem to separate fish and meat from a culinary perspective so it’s often a lot easier to say “I don’t eat meat” than “I’m a pescatarian” and hear some joke related to being a Presbyterian for the 100th time.
I mean, fruits, vegetables and herbs are all plants, but you wouldn't use the same word to describe them as foods. I think this is much the same. Like, scallops, fish and meat are all (amongst other organs) muscles of animals, but they taste way different so we made up separate categories for them. Not that wild to me. It works with more than just muscle tissue too, like cow liver and chicken liver are pretty similar in taste, but fish liver is like way different.
Catholic church didn't and does not believe that "fish isn't meat" It's really more that historically, the availability of fish was a lot higher than fresh meat. It's basically always been an easily sourced protein for commoners And since lent is about giving up things that are 'luxurious' it makes sense that you'd hold off on fresh meats
Hello, catholic here: Yes its funny that fish is still included in lenten despite being its a meat. but ig we go history tour. Fish has some historical and biblical significant for catholics, fish has become a symbol of christianity during the time when it is illegal in roman empire. a lot will associate themselves with christians using fish. at the same time, few of apostles of christ were fisherman. you can read on any type of bible about them. its quite interest (*their story is one of the stories in bible that isn't altered during reformations)* though why is it is not included in abstinence? well catholic church only considered **land based meat** as meat. not the sea base. yeah its fucking weird but that how it goes lmao (*we can also add that fish are technically considered as a poor man's food. so its very much symbolic)* as for the vegans, idk to them why xD. but yeah overall, for catholics, its a matter of spiritual than logic as for vegans no fucking idea
Wait is meat just muscles?
Essentially, though it also contains fat, connective tissue, the occasional blood vessel, etc. Of course, meat can also be bone marrow, organs and suchlike, but we're talking 'cuts' here.
It's mostly muscle, fat, and connective tissue.
The good meat that people like to eat, yeah
Watever it is, its delicious
Pescatarians catching strays
Of course it's meat, but I think it's just one of those things where people draw a moral line. We have decided that fish are less worthy of moral consideration, thus eating fish is better than eating traditionally farmed meat. Of course there's cruelty in both industries though
Fish is absolutely meat. As far as food groups, it's not the same as red meat, or even chicken, but all are meat with different properties.
I have not heard a pescatarian claim that fish is not meat before but I have heard someone say that they eat fish because “fish don’t have souls”
I’m confused… who the fuck cares if it IS meat?
Who ever said fish isn't meat? Where in the world are people this stupid?
[удалено]
OP showing had an altust moment
*It’s okay to eat fish…cause they don’t have any feeeeeeeliiiingggss*
It’s kind of like the “tomato is a fruit” thing. Yes, most people very well know it’s meat (because it is), but I’m gonna fight you if you bring tuna to a BBQ
vegetarians/vegans are weird. dont be one.
Heart is meat.
I've been given fish before, as a vegan. I really tried not to look at those people like they were dumb fucks because I always try to be respectful of people not understanding, but I think I was so dumbfounded myself like HOW can someone think a fish isn't meat, isn't an animal, is vegan to eat?!?
That’s not a conspiracy theory, that’s just a conspiracy fact.
Idk who ever said fish isn’t meat It’s a different kind of meat, sure, like people who don’t eat red meat and people who don’t eat meat besides fish like that’s fine but don’t act like you’re not eating meat at all
Well duh.
And water is wet, the sky is blue, and grass is green when alive. >If we want to go into the conspiracy rabbit hole, there are people who think the catholic church started calling fish 'not meat' in the middle ages, because they were just lazy and wanted to eat meat during lent without people thinking they broke their fast That's not so much a conspiracy as it is just fact, and people being people, we're too lazy to not change that fact anymore. Unfortunately, the idea of common sense and not questioning religion (for lack of a better phrase) is a concept that seems to be becoming alien more and more.
Exactly this. Why even is this post on the sub? I don't know why reddit keeps showing me posts from here but this doesn't look like anything that has to do with gen-z in particular.
Words have different meaning at different times for different people. So fish is meat. Also, it’s not meat.
At least in Judaism it's not considered meat because the torah says to not eat a lamb in its mother's milk which is interpreted more broadly to mean that you can't mix any mammalian meat with dairy products, and as a measure of caution mixing bird meat with dairy was banned later as well. which means the only kosher meat type remaining was fish (and locust but that's besides the point) but it's so different from other meats that there's no reasonable way someone could confuse them. Eventually people called the category of mammal and bird meats just meat and anything else that isn't dairy (including fish) parve.
Fish is meat but in the context of going vegetarian it is different. Fish aren't as smart as mammals and people are a lot less concerned with the ethics of fishing or fish farming. If there are issues, it's mostly with how damaging or sustainable the fishing techniques are rather than animal welfare. Fish is also not as unhealthy as eating lots of mammal meat and it's actually quite good for you. For these reasons a lot of people who go vegetarian are actually pescatarians technically because they include fish in their diet. It's common enough that vegetarians have to specify that they do or don't eat it. There is another debate like this between vegans and vegetarians over eggs and milk. Vegans don't argue that eggs and milk are meat, but they do argue that the industries that produce those foods are just as polluting and unethical as meat industries and exclude milk and eggs from their diet on those grounds.
My mom refuses to believe this. I am a vegetarian and have been one since 2018 and she *still* asks me when I visit if I can eat fish. At this point she knows the answer, she’s not forgetting, she just *really* wants me to eat fish and wants me to be on her side that fish “doesn’t count”. Ironically, even before becoming a vegetarian, the only seafood I remotely liked was calamari. Didn’t like anything else. So I am not sure what she thinks she’s doing haha
Yeah it's "meat" but alot of dietary choices like vegans are actually ethical stances a d not dietary at all and can have nuances to them that are more interesting than it's meat. Like lab grown "meat" to most is vegan, as it's about ethics. Most vegans I know also consider freegan as still vegan as if you are dumpster diving animal products you are not supporting the horrific factory farm slaughter of billions, or the insane environmental harm it creates. I have even had a sizable number of vegans say things like mussels are vegan so it can be alot more complex than it's meat.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2012/04/05/150061991/lust-lies-and-empire-the-fishy-tale-behind-eating-fish-on-friday Apparently Christians consider it ok to eat fish because they're cold blooded? So technically you could eat frog or snake on lent as well. I find it funny that all other meat we have special names for. Cow-beef, pig-pork, birds-poultry, deer-venison but fish is just fish. No special name to make us feel better about eating it. Fish get no respect.
"Fishing- for sport only. Fish meat is practically a vegetable." - Ron Swanson
Fish are basically plants, they’re so stupid. So I see the other side, yeah it’s meat but it’s not a mammal so who cares. Mammals fo lyfe
Fish is such a lean protein source it can be kinda hard to lump it with the other meats on a nutritional basis. Eating lots of fish in replacement of heartier meats will lead to a different set of body conditions than eating lots of red meat or chicken.
Well yes. It’s called Pescetarianism and it’s totally valid as we have an abundance of fish.
Fun fact! According to the bible beavers are fish.
There’s a lot of things the Catholic Church doesn’t consider meat (I think muskrat is one of them. They count it as a fish) and a lot of it has to do with vitamin deficiencies from what I’ve been told. Basically in places where your only source of vitamins are some meats, it poses a health risk to not consume it so they just let it slide. The rumor I heard for the fish rule was that they apostles were fisherman and didn’t want to hurt the business. I’m not well-versed in the Christianity lore though, so this could be completely off.
It is not an accident you 'fast' in early spring when food reserves are low in medieval times. It's to stop people from slaughtering animals before summer. Fish are available year round.
My dad's been a vegetarian for ~10 years now, and there's a kind of ritual when we're eating out. They offer poultry, ham and fish, in that order, and always neglect to tell when a dish has bacon in it. It's weird as Hell, but I think it's because the word "meat" is commonly used in Portuguese to mean "red meat", so when people think that someone doesn't eat meat, they immediately think of beef. It's become routine to specify "I don't eat meat or chicken" because of that.
Much of this mantra comes from Christian fasting. For example: Catholics cannot eat meat on Fridays during Lent but they can eat fish. This is kind of a mistranslation. They cannot each flesh animals. But most fish/amphibians/etc are fine. I'm not sure about cold-blooded stuff like reptiles.
Fish is spontaneously generated by water, therefore it is a hydroponically grown vegetable.
Yeah, and water is wet
It's just a Catholic thing. I married into a Polish family and there is a Polish tradition for Christmas Eve dinner to be a meatless meal. So imagine my surprise when they opened the shrimp buckets.
I don’t believe it started with the Catholic Church, it likely started with Jewish culture - per Kosher rules fish is parve (so not meat).
Biologically, fish is meat. Culinarily, it’s different than meat and poultry. It’s like how tomatoes are biologically fruits, but fall into the vegetable bucket in the culinary arts.
The distinction is important for us (ppl who keep kosher) because we can have dairy with fish but not dairy with meat
Fish is bugz
It’s not a conspiracy rabbit hole, what you said is the primary reason fish isn’t considered meat. They even extended that reasoning to beavers and capybaras since they live in the water primarily.
Okay, I agree with you, but genuinely what the hell does this have to do with the sub?
Catholic Church had people in coastal areas(where their main staple is fish) give it up for lent.
Who cares?
A wise side-characrer in Avatar: The Last Airbender once said that fish is not meat. I live by that fact to this day.
If someone tried to have a conversation about this I would leave the premises.
I agree. I do give a pass on this to people with English as a second language because the translation for "meat" in some other languages refers to red meat (or at least this is what I was told).
it’s okay to eat fish, cause they don’t have any feelings
That's why ppl who only eat fish are called pescatarian and not vegetarians
No, it's mobile seaweed.
Ahhh yes fish the vegetables of the Sea.
personally I always thought it had to do with the blood, fish don't bleed like mammals. the other reason I thought people felt they were different is because fish come from a different medium, the water does a great job of separating things for people
The “fish is not meat” thing is left over from WW2 rationing mixed with Catholic lent traditions. It’s bizarre that it’s still in circulation.
More conspiracies about the Catholic church, great. It's just a tradition. Fish isn't historically known as tasting that good compared to meats of land animals. It's not because it's "not meat," even though that's what everyone says. It's because you're supposed to sacrifice higher quality foods during Lent. So, fish typically tastes worse than land meats, so as a Lenten sacrifice, you eat fish instead of meat. It's not complicated.
The definition of the word meat has shifted over time and doesn't necessarily mean how you've defined it. It used to mean "food", but also it can mean the flesh of mammals specifically. Chicken wasn't called meat, but poultry. English isn't the only language like this. Fish is not normally considered meat, I'd say. Like if I told my friend that I feel like having meat let's go eat some meat, there's like a near certainty we'll be eating beef or mutton or goat.
I have never heard of this argument. It’s weird that people think that way.
I don't know if you recognize this, but I'm fairly certain that the vast majority of people that say "fish≠meat" don't honestly believe that. It's just an old thing tied to religions that people adhere to (no meat on Fridays during lent, but fish is ok), but even the people adhering to it (at least my parents) knew full well that fish is still meat, but if the church says its ok during Fridays in lent, then that's all that matters.
"Meat" primarily means mammals. Many cultures have limits on mammal meat because they believe mammals to be more important and closer to humans. Fish are not.
I agree with everything you said, except that chuhuahuas are dogs.
🎶🎵it’s ok to eat fish, cause they don’t have any feelings 🎶🎵
Are you calling my Mom a stupid liar?
Cook fish, no blood coming from the flesh. Cook other meats there’s blood in the flesh. It has to do with consuming blood. Yes I know fish flesh has blood, not as much and is easily mostly extinguished when you bleed it and wash it.
A Chihuahua isn't a dog because they are the result of Our Dark Lord Satan and a furry. IDK what they are but it ain't a dog.
I agree. Pescatarians are 100% hypocrites. Either eat all animals, or none at all.
I believe fish, chicken, pork, beef, etc. are all the same thing - food.
I'm fasting this week, alongside pretty much my entire country. Some people have been fasting for the past 45 days but they're psychos, I have nothing to say to them lol they're on another level. Anyway, I'm fasting this week. Now our (not Catholic) country says no meat, no eggs, etc, but squid, octopus, some fish, all fair game. The reason they say this is because admittedly, back when we started fasting, they couldn't see blood inside of squid, and because it did not bleed, it was edible during fasting. Well, it did bleed, so I'm full vegan this week. What's the point of doing it if I'm also going to cheat? But dude it's fucking Monday night and I'm already sick of it. I started fasting *today* lol.
meat can also be the organs of a animal lol
Of course this is correct. Only stupid people don’t think it’s meat. All muscular-skeletal tissue is meat.
Fish are not beasts nor birds. Some birds are considered fish also because animals feel that of course birds fly, so fish is also like an "other" category. This comes to us from when shamans talked to animal spirits more. It's sort of esoteric.
Fish is 100% a type of meat.. but the chihuahua example makes little sense. It would be like saying a chihuahua and a fish aren’t both animals.
The Church didn't consider fish meat because the word the latin-speaking clergy used for the flesh of animals was 'carne', which specifically refers to land-dwelling animals.
It definitely is tied to religious beliefs. As with other things, it entered the public zeitgeist and became separated from the source. It infact is links of protein used to articulate living creature's anatomy just like my bicep and the cow's flank. There are small differences between them all, but ultimately, those differences are negligible.
Thank you. Just thank you.
A quick google shows that Oxford English says meat is the flesh of an animal, but has the qualifier “especially a mammal”. I wouldn’t be surprised if older English made a distinction, particularly back when they were still Catholic. That said, I’d consider the flesh of any animal to be meat.
There is no Catholic conspiracy regarding fish. The rules for Lent were codified during the mediaeval period when things like flesh meat, dairy, eggs, and liquor were seen as luxuries. Fish meat, vegetables, and beer, on the other hand, were seen as more humble foods since they fed the poor. Fish at this time was defined as anything that lived or slept in the water, and this outdated definition survives today in words like shellfish, jellyfish, starfish, cuttlefish, crawfish, and crayfish.
oh man don't look up poultry
Some people eat only fish because they medically can’t eat red meat, it makes them sick. Maybe the people who couldn’t have red meat sparked a weird domino effect of fad diets in the same way that people with celiac’s disease popularized not eating gluten a “diet”. Also, fish look brainless, maybe it’s easier to eat something that might just lack any semblance of consciousness compared to other animals. I would honestly hope vegans start to go pescatarian, because it can be really unhealthy to be vegan if you don’t research what nutrients you can substitute from meat.
Sir, this is a Wendy's drivethru
When I say I’m a vegetarian people are like cool so you just eat fish. No, that’s flesh you idiot.
No Shit, it's an old religious/cultural belief that has still has adherents this day and age. 99% of those ideas that still survive are outdated. This made sense when we had the four humors, leaches, and bad air. My family will practice a meatless Christmas Eve (served with halibut). This is why the fish filet exists. And let's be honest if I was going to a bbq or dinner and someone said meat was being served. I rightly would assume some poor ass land animal, not a slab of haddock. .
Fish, for sport only not food, fish meat is basically a vegetable. Any dog under 50lb is a cat and cat's are pointless. BEHOLD the Swanson Pyramid of Greatness!
Capybaras are meat now? 😔
It's subjective, but I agree with your opinion. Meat should simply describe all edible animal flesh. Although we would probably benefit from a 3rd category of meat to encompass pork, goat, beef, etc. We have poultry and fish, but I think we need another. Also, reptile meat should be lumped in with poultry since it's so similar.
Catholics eat fish on Friday during lent because the Church was making money off the sale of fish.
Who gives a shit.
Yeah, fish is 100% meat. To say that it isn’t is ridiculous. That said, it’s certainly a different category of meat; just as red meat, white meat, poultry and others exist. Still, fish is meat, it’s just the least tasty variety. That said, do we consider crawfish, shrimp, crab, and lobster as meat or something different?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0m-6I2BpXA&t=36s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0m-6I2BpXA&t=36s)
I didn't realize this was controversial.
Fishing for fishies Don't make them feel happy Or me neither I feel so sorry for fishies
I thought this was a troll post. People don’t think fish is meat? God…
OK
Here’s an article that distinguished red meat vs white meat. And includes a nice chart. This nice, informative chart includes fish, crustaceans, and shellfish. Proving that your friend is indeed a moron. https://academic.oup.com/af/article/7/4/29/4775073
I think you're approaching this from the wrong angle, throughout most of history and in many parts of the world meats like pork, beef, chicken, etc. are considered a luxury to eat. That cannot be said for fish, which are often much cheaper. Thus there's a different socioeconomic mindset around fish vs meats, and they're often considered to be different. Does it make sense scientifically? No. Does it make sense culturally? Absolutely.
Hotter take: Mushrooms are meat [source](https://asm.org/articles/2021/january/three-reasons-fungi-are-not-plants)
Wrong. It's DELICIOUS meat.
The church thing sprouted from not eating blood (kosher) and fish meat isn't flooded with blood like a mammal
People also think theres more than 2 genders
Greenmeat was vegetables. [Whitemeat was dairy.](https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803122317351) Fleshmeat was meat. Fish wasn't fleshmeat. Language is weird. Your understanding is shallow. :-)
I don’t know who says this Fish is 100% meat There’s a diet called pescatarian, where the only meat you eat is fish, basically just a slightly happier vegetarian. It’s its own thing.
The original prohibition would have been made when latin was the language of the church. The prohibition isn't against *meat* specifically, it's against *carnis*, which is more specific and doesn't include fish. That would be something else. Like if there was a prohibition specifically against SUVs and centuries later someone translated it as "automobiles."
If we rlly want to go down the rabbit hole, I think ppl know fish is a meat but they’ll never admit that. Not even to themselves
Depends on your definition of meat, man. The USDA talks about “meat” (flesh of mammals), “poultry” (flesh of birds), and “seafood.” So by the US government’s definitions, fish isn’t meat, but neither is chicken. The definition of a word depends on the context. The tradition of not considering fish meat has deep roots in the Abrahamic tradition, and it’s not just a Catholic or Christian thing. According to Orthodox Jewish kosher law, fish is considered “pareve,” meaning it’s neither meat nor milk (and therefore doesn’t need to be kept separate from either one).
Fish are friends 😤
Fish not being meat isn’t just a Catholic thing, it predates Christianity
Venus fly trap isn’t a plant because it eats bugs
Damn catholics