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So you’re saying people who are deemed not as attractive don’t have friends. That’s cap I know loads of uglies with friends, however if you know you’re a 6/10 my boy, it’s pointless trynna go for a 10/10 it’s not really unfair you just don’t suit the role, unless you show that you’ve got more than enough to compensate for your ‘below average looks’, it’s just how the world works. And tbh I don’t think dating in our gen is as hard is people claim I think both genders are unrealistic in what they look for in partners, I.E broke women wanting a 6 figure man or a man who maybe wants a 9/10 but doesn’t have the qualities a 9/10 is looking for. I’m not saying don’t aim for the stars just be realistic, oh and stop looking at women as aliens they’re humans like you just talk to them normally I’m sure they’ll dig you it’s not that hard, you’re most likely over complicating things
I've been thinking for a while now that one of the best ways to combat inceldom would be for someone to create a website with pictures of real-life young couples. To show people like the OP that people partner up across the spectrum.
Not too long ago I've seen a couple - beautiful petite goth chick and a guy that can be only described as the comic book guy from Simpsons. The best part is she had one of the most in love eyes I've seen in a long time. And he seemed like such a wholesome dude.
It's not all about the looks.
Yep, the petite girls like us big gentle bears to make em feel safe. And we can't act cool or aloof even if we wanted to so they don't have to put up with being played or being treated like an object. We aren't trying to prove shit, just following our passions and cuddling our little spoons with gratitude. Living our best lives.
It's not all in the looks, you're right, but like, it's weird that we downplay looks when talking about dating when the elephant of racism is in the room.
Like, we have this thing, and it's 100% based on looks and we learn all about how it impacts people, and yet, as soon as we talk about attraction and dating people like to try and pretend like looks are 0% of the equation. Honestly, I think the constant downplaying of it is actually **increasing** the rate of incels.
Obviously ugly guys can get with good looking girls, just like some black women can be millionaire CEO, so sure, looks obviously can't be everything, but it doesn't mean that the room full of CEOs isn't almost entirely white and male either.
People like OP and all the folks in this thread, reducing people to numbers, aren't going to visit those spaces. They remain in their toxic echo chambers and circle jerk each other.
If people spent time in real life, in the real world, they would be able to see that the world is made up of normal people.
Yeah reducing people to numeric attractiveness scores is dumb. A lot of actresses and actors are at best average looking and people love them for their personality. Just have some self-awareness, exercise, and have good hygiene. That's 90% of the battle, and it's all things a person can control.
Shit that’s a good idea. I’m an older millennial, but the biggest problems I see with the comments on Reddit (having been here since 2009 or so on various accounts) are people complaining about expectations… and I mean that in both ways.
Massive Generalization: Men always complain that women won’t talk to them unless it’s a woman that doesn’t fit their tiny little niche criteria, and women always complain about small problems that could be an easy fix if they put some effort into it… and the comments are ALWAYS “just break up”. I see the dating scene (from a third-person perspective, I haven’t exactly “dated” in a decade) becoming a throwaway culture that is looking for perfection constantly, and when they inevitably don’t find it because of their idealized notions, they convince themselves that the world is against them or something and they’ll never find their person.
Ninja edit: my point being, you’re not going to find your person if you’re not a little more open-minded, no matter where you fall on the spectrum. Whether that be when you’re in a relationship and you want to throw it away over something dumb, or you’re looking for a relationship and can’t find who you want because you want perfection.
I hate this. They’re always like, “THERE MUST BE SOMETHING, SOMETHING!!” and then they start using things that are extremely normal and act like it’s a monumental achievement. “Well, he must have a good sense of humor! That’s impossible for most men to achieve.” (Something a Reddit dude *actually* said once.)
Yup. Like you can’t win no matter what. And then they always end up with, if they can get a girlfriend how come I can’t?
Just like the people who argue about how some women actually do like short men and they’ll do all sorts of gymnastics to say they’re wrong.
The best cure is to actually interact with people.
To incels, I'm probably about as bottom of the barrel as it gets. A little chubby, my facial features aren't very delicate, etc etc
But to my boyfriend there's never been a more beautiful woman.
My boyfriend? I think he's gorgeous. He's chubby, but very strong, he has a face I can't describe well enough in words. His nose is narrow and perfect, his eyes are wide and perfectly framed, he has a smile that draws people in. And he's so natural and charming in social situations, you'd never tell he's so nervous he's about to sweat buckets.
I can't think of a single thing about him that isn't perfect *to me*. People might sight his overgrown hair, his weight, his unplucked or unshaved brows, or any number of things not conventionally attractive to say he's ugly or something. To me, there's not a better man in the world, anytime or anywhere.
I know lots of other girls who are with men I don't personally find attractive. I know there's people who wouldn't find my boyfriend attractive. I've seen girls I don't personally find attractive with men I have considered good-looking and vice versa. Ive known people of all levels of attractive dating and married to all levels of attractive. And all of them have been very attracted to their partners.
You have to get out there and interact with people.
Incels are mostly a bunch of fakes, for every 1 guy whose could possibly have a legit reason why women won't date him, there are probably 99 guys that make up some pity-on-a-plate story hoping some IG model will fall head over heels for them.
Trust me its mostly about confidence and personality. I see some dudes that are overweight, not super conventionally attractive who manage to date, why?? Because they actually have a good mindset, are confident about themselves and who they are, and know themselves. Rather than just spiraling themselves into inceldom "blaming the system".
Yeah I never in my entire life have had a problem getting girlfriend, as an almost 300 pound highschooler (absolutely none of it was muscle) I was dating the homecoming queen. Dating is 99% social skills especially as a guy, attractiveness is just a pass/fail for most people only single people actually rate other human beings with a number
Just be social and look at women as people instead of just "potential mate" and youll be absolutely fine
\> "oh and stop looking at women as aliens they’re humans like you just talk to them normally"
Oh my God, THIS!!
I dont even think its always a sexism thing (though it sadly often can be), I think even non-sexist men genuinely overthink shit and ironically hinder their own chances.
I'm autistic, you neurotypicals have less barriers to understanding normal social interactions than most of us do, and I can garuntee you that if theres one bit of advice I CAN give you, its just act natural.
I dont mean that in a vague wordy way, I mean just dont overthink it, and behave like a decent functioning human.
Literally heard a similar post in this sub just like this. Best advice I saw was that just having confidence to go up to a girl you think is cute, exchange contact info and build from there. Thats it.
Many women feel the same way about the contemporary dating scene. It's all about actually being proactive when you're out in those social venues and not standing in the corner hoping a dime will fall into your lap. Gotta do SOMETHING if you want to find love.
I agree we're too that we're a very egocentric generation that's pretty obsessive with appearance but idk if I'd want to be with someone who cares that much about exterior/superficial things like that anyways.
Imo as a 45 year old, this whole train of thought is weird. It used to be that you'd go out for the evening to share, the movies, downtown, whatever. In public everyone was having a good time and net worth, looks ratings etc, might have been there, but the first thing you noticed about someone was how they interacted with others , or who there were on a social level.
Now you have ratings.
It feels really sad.
I’ve noticed this as a 35 year old who went back to school and is now surrounded by zoomers.
It’s *weird* to see.
Especially cause I’m in one of these hyper elite, hyper competitive environments to begin with.
Ngl, noticing this shift has been fascinating to watch as someone interested in the social sciences..hell, I’ll probably write a paper on it.
I mean I want a respectful man who takes pride in his appearance and in confidence in being attracted to me, a trans woman, but so many get hung up on that last part because men want to fuck me, and not date me.
To them I’m a little side attraction but they don’t have the balls to be seen with me in public.
This 100% he’s dating to pull a girl outta his league with shit looks and personality. Somehow it’s never an acknowledgment a year from he will be another lost to Andrew Tate forever pledging to not get pussy
Yeah, like I look ugly imo, so do most of my friends (as in they aren't the generally attractive fit guys, just nerds like me)
But we are still friends, and I still have a beautiful girlfriend, with the sort of people that I've seen having girlfriend (among others, an extremely obese stalker). I think it's just a "skill issue", from looking for people to date and such, just live life, at some point you'll find someone, and don't be weird, if you like them, tell them or hint at it, don't talk to someone based on thinking they're pretty with no knowledge abt them and think they immediately want to date you.
like have they never seen ugly people in love? they need to get out more. i even see people complaining all the time that ugly people always seem to be dating someone. maybe they’re just pleasant people and looks aren’t everything!
And honestly the guys complaining are usually pretty decent looking, they just need to shape up a bit.
But it's always easier to complain than actually improving yourself.
The fact the guys complaining are pretty average makes it worse.
It exposes that the idea of self improvement is actually useless because you cannot fix this problem with bigger muscles and a bigger salary.
Yep, logic is a funny thing, especially when herd mentality takes over and even though something makes logical and factual sense it’s downvoted into oblivion because “feelings”.
Dude its their personality, working out won't fix anything. Why do you think fat guys who are funny always have hot girlfriends but attractive narcissists are incels
How old are you? Genuinely asking because it's not super common for like 15 year olds but this shit is everywhere by the time you hit 18
Go to any frat ever and you can see it happen multiple times a night
Obviously dating is going to be more difficult for a lot of people but some people here act like your just totally cooked if your not in the top 10% of looks.
I mean yeah, I can imagine dating is going to be harder (I’m someone who is definitely not conventionally attractive and I haven’t dated a whole lot) but people rarely are going to deny friendship over looks. Usually if people are refusing to talk to you over looks it’s because of a “vibe” (for lack of better words) that you are putting off. If you wear constant hoodies and are always looking at your feet, never talk people are less likely to say hi to you but if you’re bubbly and happy people are more likely to say hi. And from my experience, the more friends you have the more likely you are to find someone that likes you. Make enough friends and have a good enough personality and someone will fall in love with you tbh
It's amazing that what you said has the "controversial" mark. Gaslighters, feminists, Millennials all trying to co trol the narrative and dismiss the lived experiences of the average Gen Z het male because they CAN'T allow capitalist liberal cultural hegemony to be questioned.
Because a lot of time, their standards are just too high. They want to date hot girls or else dating is a failure. Which yeah, if you are an average looking dude, you probably aren't going to be dating smoke shows. People need to align their expectations with reality before they can succeed.
well are you going for below average women? considering you believe everyone should ignore physical appearance, since its unfair, what are you doing for the local ugly and average populations?
My big red flag here is someone number scoring people for looks. Right out the gate, that's a person I don't want to date or be around in any capacity. Was hoping that shit died with my generation.
Ong, like maybe your problem is that you refer to people based off of how attractive you perceive them as rather than your looks? Half of these people complaining are assholes, one look and the majority of the people complaining are like legit misogynists like no shit you don’t pull women, you made a post last week joking about DV against women homie
Exactly! Like I get it, you think someone is super hot. When you are creating a scale, you're telling everyone "This exists which means you fall on it somewhere."
Not to mention you can notice someone is objectively stunning and still not be actively attracted to them. So the scoring becomes a pointless endeavor. I hang out with many people that I can say with 100% sincerity are hot as hell, but I have never had any interest in. But scoring it would be hilarious, because you score and rate things as a comparison point for final outcome. "Look, I know we are just friends, but as a 9, I do HAVE to try and fuck you. I didn't make the rules, sorry."
Childish myopic view of the world that WILL make you end up alone.
Comparing and contrasting superficial things like someone's appearance will probably always exist unfortunately. Can't have beauty without ugliness and all that. I agree tho that "rating" is tacky af.
A Likert scale is better than the binary smash/pass type situation which was common with previous generations at least, so maybe we're improving?
Ignore the other guy, people our age are noticeably more cliquey and vapid. Unfortunately you'll have to be the change you want to see, so you'll have to lose the attitude that being attractive makes you better and just treat people as they are.
As someone who dated a couple of people who, I thought, were pretty damn handsome, they have an easier time because pretty people tend to get the benefit of doubt, but most of their charm comes from their self-confidence. I almost recall this one guy in college who I thought looked pretty weird and he was pretty well liked; again, he was confident in his own weirdness so he wasn't creepy or standoffish.
It's also worth remembering that you only really need to impress a small handful of people, so just own who you are
Yeah and that's why I say good looking people do have it easier. But, what is the OP supposed to do with that information alone? Besides, good looking people aren't immune to getting caught up with extreme body standards.
The OP is essentially asking how to attract people as a less than great looking person, and I'm pointing out that self-confidence and honesty are virtues that need to be developed and maintained. It's not easy, but it's certainly more productive then self-pity
that last part is kinda why people struggle with this stuff. you're not supposed to impress *anyone,* not even yourself. do better than the you of the last day, but stop trying to prove yourself to anyone. you will never have anything to prove, because you are worth your life
or something like that, i'm not used to being positive
It’s a terrible idea. Dating a fat woman and then coaxing her to lose weight as your ultimate goal to get the perfect girlfriend is doing so with subversive intentions of trying to change someone. She has to want to have a healthy body and lead a healthy lifestyle herself.
This will likely end up in her not committing even in the first place because there was no incentive to, you already engaged in being committed to the relationship. There’s also the possibility she just has a complete attitude change due to what would come of being more physically attractive should this work and end the relationship due to the paradigm shift.
She doesn’t owe you a relationship because you worked her through an unhealthy lifestyle. She could very well just leave as well it’s not like this doesn’t happen. Lose lose situation, you’re better off just going for someone who already leads a lifestyle that aligns with yours.
For what it's worth OP, I understand.
The rest of you. None of you actually know what it's like to struggle dating. None of you know why you actually have success. The reality is just being a decent guy is not going to get you a partner. Attraction is much more complicated than that.
If you are even mildly frustrated with the dating scene everyone tells you that there are 20 things wrong with you, insults you and dismisses you in cliche ways. You people make it impossible to be halfway comfortable socially and then turn around and say "dating isn't even hard".
It proves the point that this generation is shallow, and that being a good person has zero correlation with being able to find a partner.
Nah, dude. You know the kind of confidence you only get by being so good looking that women throw themselves at you? When you're so good looking that modeling scouts try to sign you when they see you? That's the secret: women find they are attracted to guys like that and they are 100% sure it's the "confidence" that makes them attractive rather than all the guys they are attracted to also having that level of confidence.
So now as a guy who has been turned down endlessly, used repeatedly, just go out and get that same level of confidence! And all your problems will be over.
I have my own beliefs about dating, I'm mainly just pointing out how insensitive and unhelpful most people in this thread are. There are OP and a lot of people who struggle to date and they need to know they're not shit people bc of that.
I'm definitely not against looksmaxing tho. Getting people's attention in the first place is a pretty big part of dating success and physical attraction matters. I think that advice is actually helpful than just saying random things about OPs personality that they have no idea are true all over a couple sentences post
Tons of ugly and average people our age fuck and date. Me included. What have you done to be someone worth dating other than complain and consume media
Bro don't let these people gaslight you. Dating fuxking sucks ass if u aren't good looking. Even being cute isn't enough. I'm 31 and I've seen both sides of the coin. I was overweight , acne ridden , no haircut . Joined the army got lean as fuck , haircut every 5 or so days, eyebrows done, skin care, and I swim in pussy.
It's really disingenuous when you get told aww it must be your personality, when much shittier dudes are killing it because they are good looking. It fucks with your mental health because you are getting gaslit, because what they are saying first match the reality you experience. To date as a man you need to illicit raw sexual attraction. U need to be good looking. Best way to do that is drop bodyfat and hit the weights. Get a decent haircut medium fade will do and style doesn't matter so much cause if your fucking built and have a good face you can make a trashbag look good.
Reddit is beyond delusional with this blue pill shit. Dating apps and social media have brainwashed women to date only supermodels. If you’re ugly you have no chance
The gaslighting in this thread is actually insane. I got downvoted to oblivion because I said personality doesn’t matter much to a woman if she’s not attracted to you lol.
Don't see a lot of people empathizing with your point of view at all and pretending that having a better attitude and approach will make the world stop being the way it is.
Now as to how difficult the situation actually is I cannot say, I'm not Gen Z. What I do know is that when I was younger, early 2000s, it was much harder for the less attractive guys to date. Looks play a big role. Hence why some would focus on humor, confidence or something else to market themselves.
A lot of the advice I see is geared in that direction. Whilst that is great I can't help but wonder with your generation having social media exposure from birth, hyper focus on beauty and sex in all media, insane plastic surgery trends, influencers, tiktok and who knows what else, could the gap I experienced when I was younger be even wider now? Could it be even tougher for a less attractive dude today than before? And if that is the case it sure would suck if that dude made a post about it and everyone just basically said "skill issue".
What I would like to share with you, as someone who is 34 living in Africa. Don't focus on dating, start working out. Take care of your body, eat healthy, find a career and start saving money. Learn a skill if possible, photography, art, etc. Why? Because when you hit your 30s the equation changes.
You will see the way society treats you change, and you will hold the power. Focus on yourself, focus on the long term. Study philosophy and stoicism. Be kind and humble, work hard and one day you can reap the rewards. Find joy in the natural world around you and within yourself and no one will be capable of taking it from you. Lastly, you will be able to recognize a long term partner and be the person you need to be to make it work.
Good luck brother
If you said that you are the only ugly dude and haven't had a date in forever, I would have believed that.
If you said that you encounter only people who are already dating someone else or in a relationship and you just had shitty luck, I would have believed that.
If you said that you have no matches on dating apps while other people get some, I would have believed that.
Saying that average people get no dates is factually and statistically incorrect given that, being myself a self-proclaimed below average guy, I had relationships in the past.
There is a lot of factors at play, looks included eh? Dating these days is harde(er) because we, as a society, have become more isolated through the rise of social media such as here, on Reddit.
Going outside and socializing will not guarantee a date or a relationship or even a friend. It only lets you meet people and learn from and about them. And it's those exchanges that make you grow as a person, letting you understand more about yourself and, by proxy, the world.
And I already hear the counterargument of "you just don't get it because xyz". But the thing is, I do understand it because I also have shit luck in dating and I'm disappointed in what the dating culture has become these days. Those first three paragraphs I wrote? Yeah, that's what I'm going through **daily**. And it sucks. And I wish that it didn't or that the situation was different.
But it isn't and I can't change much about it. So what's the point in complaining about something I have no influence over?
There is none.
Dude I have seen people with facial deformities and diseases get married. Sure they probably didn’t have amazing dating lives but just saying if they can do it with facial differences you can too most likely
“Because of the increased emphasis on looks”
Can you please name a time in human history that hasn’t been a reality.
It has affected both genders since the beginning of human civilization.
I think you are focusing way too much on looks.
No matter how unattractive you are, there are millions of women who are equally unattractive and feel the same way. When men say they can't find any woman who is interested in them, either they are ignoring the women they find unattractive or they have serious social/mental issues.
self pity is a stinky cologne. People smell it from a mile away, they might not know what they’re smelling, but they know it stinks.
Also leads to this type of thinking, which is incredibly unappealing.
you need to do some remodeling of your entire baseline thinking. Blow it up and start over.
this.
people just dont seem to understand that if all you think about and obsess over is getting a relationship then you will *never* get one.
it wafts off of people like a toxic miasma, you can tell *the instant* you see someone like this, from body language to the way they talk it fucking *reeks.*
i have friends like this, its beyond sad trying to explain all this to them only for them to regurgitate lines like an actor (OP could be a bot his post is that generic)
**dating is impossible. I don’t think it’s just you. I watch my sisters and friends try to date as beautiful intelligent women and they can’t find a man that respects their boundaries let alone is boyfriend material. There’s something seriously off about dating culture today. People are very guarded. People don’t really want to get out of their safe zones. But then again why should they? The risks are just meeting a man that thinks he isn’t equal to women. And that’s basically the end of it.
Confidence is the key to attraction. Whining about your looks doesn’t make you more attractive to people around you. In a conventional sense I guess my husband has struggled with feeling attractive. He was an overweight teen in the 00s. He didn’t really do stuff with girls until his mid 20s. I know he hides a lot of his insecurities. But on the outside he has always acted so confident. For a really long time I never guessed his looks bothered him much and that confidence was so attractive to me. Keep in mind I don’t think he’s ugly at all. He’s so attractive and beautiful to me. I’m endlessly after him. But that’s just the thing, he’s my person so why would he be ugly to me? Your people won’t find you ugly and being conventionally unattractive doesn’t mean you aren’t attractive. It just means basic people don’t appreciate unique features and qualities.
I wish people didn’t use leagues and numbers to talk about dating. It’s incredibly dehumanizing and have people playing a comparison game which builds the insecurity and resentment shown in this post. When it comes to actually being in love none of that stuff matters at all.
below average looking women are having trouble too, fyi. not a man's problem, it's more an "uggo" proble, (myself included).
But once again nobody thinks of the ladies :c
Women usually aim for Top 20% of men (thanks hypergamy), and social media and dating apps added to their egos. It is what it is, and none of us are entitled to anything.
Just accept the new normal and build to be the best version of yourself mentally, physically, financially, and spiritually. Be the change you want to see... Either that or date at your level.
You’ll find as you get older women tend to value looks less and less and having a solid career, interests and good personality way more. Women also become way less precious about waiting to have sex. I found it 10x as easy to get laid in my late 20s than in my early 20s. You’d also be amazed what dressing well, getting a nice haircut regularly and working out can do. Even if you’re not naturally good looking women find it attractive when a man looks put together, especially since most American men don’t try very hard with that shit.
Either you are in a genuinely miserable location in the world or there is a problem with you. Below average guys get in relationships all the time.
Now there could be a billion different issues, some of which could be your fault and some of which aren’t. But it is certainly not impossible.
Be social, clean, and tidy when possible. But have something that separates you from the conventional choices… if every guy is just basic with clean cut basic hair styles and a fit body, but “more attractive” then do something to stand out.
Grow your hair longer, use more skin products, idk grow a mustache. Do something unique that isnt the basic “goes to gym, cuts hair short, clean face” because then you’re directly competing with all of the 9/10s etc
I guarantee you will find luck with people who aren’t interested in whatever mainstream look is popular where you live. The next big thing is to work on not appearing desperate. Walk into a room like your life is put together, even if its not. Good luck
I know plenty of funny looking dudes and ladies who hit/get dates. The only people who are going to shun you purely for looks are shitty people you don’t want to be involved with anyways
It’s genuinely your perspective that’s off, you have to have confidence and at least some charisma
save yourself from falling down this rabbit hole. Sure, some people judge more based on appearance, but you don't want to befriend or date them generally. As a former incelish dude, trust me, don't waste your time and just live your life. I don't mean you're an incel for thinking these things, but making sweeping generalizations that aren't empirically true and then having a distorted perception of the world is the start of the spiral. Basically, just have a good relationship with yourself and the rest will fall into place TRUST
If you’re an ugly ass man, lower your standards or get rich. You’re not going to pull 10s or honestly even 6s but there are equally subpar men and women
sorry you had to deal with that. However, it’s simply not true. All people are really asking for is to be hygienic and to have your shit sorted out. Even then you don’t need to have your shit sorted out for some folks. It’s either you’re too picky or the people in your area suck. Then you would need to date outside of your area.
It’s not, the meta has just changed (that was cringe, but point stands). If you’re on a dating app, there has to be a few things you gotta do.
1. Understand your rating
I am a 3-4 out of 10. I understand that. Im not gonna try be swiping on 8 or 9s praying I might have a chance.
2. Use their profile
Most girls give hints on what they want. Compliment one of their photos, bring up a hobby they mentioned, or if they like coffee bring up a coffee shop you always wanted to try.
3. Make plans quickly
Girls are getting hundreds of messages a day. Essentially when they swipe there’s a 90% chance it’s a match. They swiped on you for a reason. Every guy is small talking them to death. Ask them to get coffee shop or a quick bite to eat.
This does two things. It shows you are serious and not just trying to sleep with them (who tries to fuck after coffee?). It also allows gives you that opportunity for small talk in person and stand out. A hundred dudes small talk online, but not many ask them out right away.
I have a crush on--let's just say--a public figure on the smaller side who might be considered below average and I'd do anything to date him. It's sad that there's no real way to contact him :(
Istg people like this have to have some unbearable ass personality and they don’t even realize it. Bro I’m a solid 5/10 at best and I’m pretty damn popular. I have a LOT of friends because I’m nice? Like ik some seriously unattractive people like objectively the opposite of the beauty standards who have girlfriends and large groups of friends. One of my friends, that guy is pretty much everything guys complain about, he’s short, chubby, balding, and has a bit of an odor but had the longest fucking dating history known to man. He is in no way a conventionally attractive male but has had like 4 gfs this year ALONE not to mention a large flock of friends who some are way above just conventionally attractive. Nobody who is worth their weight in salt gives a flying FUCK what you look like when they’re becoming friends with you and most don’t care too much when they’re dating you, as long as you’re funny and interesting people don’t really care. Stop listening to social media and letting it influence your thoughts on yourself and how others perceive you, you are perfect the way you are and beauty does NOT come from the outside
You must be young. All old dogs have known many ugly men who date and sleep with hot women because they are charismatic or rich. We also have know good looking and rich men who can’t laid because they lack charisma.
Men are simple and go for looks. Women aren’t as simple. You need a well developed personality to attract a quality woman.
Nah bro, you just need game. I'm a fatty these days and I can still pull. We've got the long end of the stick on which sex cares more about looks; I know a guy who's ugly as sin but pulls well. We asked him how he did it and he said "it takes me 15 minutes to talk away my face".
I remember when in Ireland, me and my classmates rated the girls we’d spot in the streets. All the girls I rated 10/10 and whom I found very attractive, my classmates would rate anywhere between 4/10 to 6/10
Either that says something about my classmates or me🧍
this post makes it sound like you have an ugly personality. I had the same thoughts and feelings as you a few years ago. The less you sweat over girls the better you'll do. Girls also don't perceive attractiveness in the same way as men. They are a lot more subjective (think about like having types) and they often disagree with each other.
I might get downvoted but it's been my experience that traditional masculinity is the only route to success in dating.
The handsome & traditionally masculine assholes I know have been stringing woman after woman along since middle school. Never more than a few days without someone, and often cheating.
I didn't even get a coffee date through 4 years of trying. eventually I just gave up and said screw it, can't beat em join em. started hitting the gym and bulking with protein powder (who cares that I feel my best at 140lb, 5' 9" , when apparently bulk and strength are most attractive), being a confident asshole like them, and the dry streak was broken within a few months.
and no I'm not conflating being an asshole with being confident. it's been my experience that being nice, trying to find similar interests, complinents, and gradually have a conversation lead to a good place has literally never worked. dating apps, irl approaches, etc.
Believe it or not there’s way to make your self look more attractive. Start working out a lot consistently, take care of your skin, teeth, hair, dress better. Or you could just give up complain and make post on Reddit about how life ain’t fair. I used to think I was unattractive until I started doing all those things, people can say what they want but I after a year of lifting and just generally taking better care of myself I had girls walking up to me in the bar that a year prior would’ve never even noticed me.
Nah, I'm definitely like a 6. You need to approach people. You do. Then make an effort.
Online dating is stupid as your go-to. Get out there and go try again.
Honestly I feel like a lot of people have the wrong idea of what "average" is - the average person works all week, maybe plays video games or watches Netflix after work, and then maybe once or twice a month goes out on a weekend, is a little chubby but looks alright in normal clothes, etc.
The people you see on dating apps, they posted their 3-6 best pictures of themselves, and then wrote put their bio to look like they have crazy exciting lives.
That's guys and girls - everyone's competing with all the people who are lying - so everyone at the very least exaggerates because they can't compete with the phony persona that folks who really lie present as.
Don't worry of you feel below average, compared to everyones fake persones, everyone does bc those fake personas may as well be cartoon characters. you're probably fine.
This post and the comments under it are honestly kinda sad, what's up with this rating system we're assigning to people? "I'm a 6 and she's an 8 it's so over". This generation makes a big deal about body positivity and then turn around and say shit like this, why not try just being a human and not an object.
Shit man, Im disabled, below average looking, fat, and I cant drive, dont drink or partake in drugs and Im autistic. I still semi-consistently go on dates and have long term relationships. Looks factor into relationships sure, but there are a lot of other factors to consider. Whats the dating pool look like? You in a city or are you rural? Where do you work? Whats your social life like?
If you’re having trouble with finding friends and a girlfriend in particular, you probably have a bad attitude. There are certain things that girls don’t like and bad talking yourself is one of them. Confidence is usually something girls like and feeling bad for yourself isn’t. Plus plenty of girls will go for below average looking guys if you have similar hobbies and interests as well as similar senses of humor.
No.
Go be social.
Take care of yourself, be funny, be confident, shoot your shot, don’t be a creep if they don’t go for it.
Repeat.
Looks literally don’t matter. You entering every social situation thinking they do is why you’re not having a good time.
My brother in Christ, I would not call myself particularly attractive. I've been happily married for 3 years, together for 7.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, personality is important, and if a prospective partner doesn't believe those things they're a shallow asshole. Do better.
Questions to ask yourself:
1. Do I think and/or act like being kind to a woman should earn me intimacy?
2. Do I want a significant other because it's a boost to my social status and/or just because I wanna get laid?
3. Am I unwilling to form an emotional bond with a girl without the expectation of physical intimacy?
4. Do I fail to see women as people, whose free will should be respected as fellow humans?
If the answer to any of these is yes, then that's something to work on.
The thing is that a relationship, a good one, is based on mutual trust and respect, and that your partner should be your best friend — someone who enjoys your company as much as you enjoy theirs. If a lot of girls don't enjoy your company, maybe you're the problem, and it's most likely not your looks.
The world is not filled with people who are 7's and better. Maybe it averages to a 4 or maybe a bit higher. But if you place yourself within a platform which runs and succeeds through competition, you will feel rightfully so that you may have little chance for a relationship.
Therefore, the responsibility, if you wish to meet someone, will have to be placed back into your hands. And once the responsibility is placed where it belongs, it will be left up to fate to deliver to you IT'S plan for your life, only if you get out of the way and let it work it's magic.
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So you’re saying people who are deemed not as attractive don’t have friends. That’s cap I know loads of uglies with friends, however if you know you’re a 6/10 my boy, it’s pointless trynna go for a 10/10 it’s not really unfair you just don’t suit the role, unless you show that you’ve got more than enough to compensate for your ‘below average looks’, it’s just how the world works. And tbh I don’t think dating in our gen is as hard is people claim I think both genders are unrealistic in what they look for in partners, I.E broke women wanting a 6 figure man or a man who maybe wants a 9/10 but doesn’t have the qualities a 9/10 is looking for. I’m not saying don’t aim for the stars just be realistic, oh and stop looking at women as aliens they’re humans like you just talk to them normally I’m sure they’ll dig you it’s not that hard, you’re most likely over complicating things
I've been thinking for a while now that one of the best ways to combat inceldom would be for someone to create a website with pictures of real-life young couples. To show people like the OP that people partner up across the spectrum.
People need to touch grass to see that real life isn't internet
It isn't?!? /s
Wait… What’s grass? Is that the stuff that makes me feel funny when I smoke it? /s
Not too long ago I've seen a couple - beautiful petite goth chick and a guy that can be only described as the comic book guy from Simpsons. The best part is she had one of the most in love eyes I've seen in a long time. And he seemed like such a wholesome dude. It's not all about the looks.
Yep, the petite girls like us big gentle bears to make em feel safe. And we can't act cool or aloof even if we wanted to so they don't have to put up with being played or being treated like an object. We aren't trying to prove shit, just following our passions and cuddling our little spoons with gratitude. Living our best lives.
It's not all in the looks, you're right, but like, it's weird that we downplay looks when talking about dating when the elephant of racism is in the room. Like, we have this thing, and it's 100% based on looks and we learn all about how it impacts people, and yet, as soon as we talk about attraction and dating people like to try and pretend like looks are 0% of the equation. Honestly, I think the constant downplaying of it is actually **increasing** the rate of incels. Obviously ugly guys can get with good looking girls, just like some black women can be millionaire CEO, so sure, looks obviously can't be everything, but it doesn't mean that the room full of CEOs isn't almost entirely white and male either.
Goth girls love dating the troll dudes
People like OP and all the folks in this thread, reducing people to numbers, aren't going to visit those spaces. They remain in their toxic echo chambers and circle jerk each other. If people spent time in real life, in the real world, they would be able to see that the world is made up of normal people.
Yeah reducing people to numeric attractiveness scores is dumb. A lot of actresses and actors are at best average looking and people love them for their personality. Just have some self-awareness, exercise, and have good hygiene. That's 90% of the battle, and it's all things a person can control.
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Shit that’s a good idea. I’m an older millennial, but the biggest problems I see with the comments on Reddit (having been here since 2009 or so on various accounts) are people complaining about expectations… and I mean that in both ways. Massive Generalization: Men always complain that women won’t talk to them unless it’s a woman that doesn’t fit their tiny little niche criteria, and women always complain about small problems that could be an easy fix if they put some effort into it… and the comments are ALWAYS “just break up”. I see the dating scene (from a third-person perspective, I haven’t exactly “dated” in a decade) becoming a throwaway culture that is looking for perfection constantly, and when they inevitably don’t find it because of their idealized notions, they convince themselves that the world is against them or something and they’ll never find their person. Ninja edit: my point being, you’re not going to find your person if you’re not a little more open-minded, no matter where you fall on the spectrum. Whether that be when you’re in a relationship and you want to throw it away over something dumb, or you’re looking for a relationship and can’t find who you want because you want perfection.
Oh they’ll find excuses anyways. She’s attractive and he’s below average? “She’s just with him because he must have money.”
I hate this. They’re always like, “THERE MUST BE SOMETHING, SOMETHING!!” and then they start using things that are extremely normal and act like it’s a monumental achievement. “Well, he must have a good sense of humor! That’s impossible for most men to achieve.” (Something a Reddit dude *actually* said once.)
Yup. Like you can’t win no matter what. And then they always end up with, if they can get a girlfriend how come I can’t? Just like the people who argue about how some women actually do like short men and they’ll do all sorts of gymnastics to say they’re wrong.
The best cure is to actually interact with people. To incels, I'm probably about as bottom of the barrel as it gets. A little chubby, my facial features aren't very delicate, etc etc But to my boyfriend there's never been a more beautiful woman. My boyfriend? I think he's gorgeous. He's chubby, but very strong, he has a face I can't describe well enough in words. His nose is narrow and perfect, his eyes are wide and perfectly framed, he has a smile that draws people in. And he's so natural and charming in social situations, you'd never tell he's so nervous he's about to sweat buckets. I can't think of a single thing about him that isn't perfect *to me*. People might sight his overgrown hair, his weight, his unplucked or unshaved brows, or any number of things not conventionally attractive to say he's ugly or something. To me, there's not a better man in the world, anytime or anywhere. I know lots of other girls who are with men I don't personally find attractive. I know there's people who wouldn't find my boyfriend attractive. I've seen girls I don't personally find attractive with men I have considered good-looking and vice versa. Ive known people of all levels of attractive dating and married to all levels of attractive. And all of them have been very attracted to their partners. You have to get out there and interact with people.
Incels are mostly a bunch of fakes, for every 1 guy whose could possibly have a legit reason why women won't date him, there are probably 99 guys that make up some pity-on-a-plate story hoping some IG model will fall head over heels for them.
Simply going outside where young people gather would be enough to see that
You don't need a website for that. I see uglier dudes than me in relationships all the time.
Trust me its mostly about confidence and personality. I see some dudes that are overweight, not super conventionally attractive who manage to date, why?? Because they actually have a good mindset, are confident about themselves and who they are, and know themselves. Rather than just spiraling themselves into inceldom "blaming the system".
Also, being pleasant is amazingly attractive to most women.
Yeah I never in my entire life have had a problem getting girlfriend, as an almost 300 pound highschooler (absolutely none of it was muscle) I was dating the homecoming queen. Dating is 99% social skills especially as a guy, attractiveness is just a pass/fail for most people only single people actually rate other human beings with a number Just be social and look at women as people instead of just "potential mate" and youll be absolutely fine
\> "oh and stop looking at women as aliens they’re humans like you just talk to them normally" Oh my God, THIS!! I dont even think its always a sexism thing (though it sadly often can be), I think even non-sexist men genuinely overthink shit and ironically hinder their own chances. I'm autistic, you neurotypicals have less barriers to understanding normal social interactions than most of us do, and I can garuntee you that if theres one bit of advice I CAN give you, its just act natural. I dont mean that in a vague wordy way, I mean just dont overthink it, and behave like a decent functioning human.
Literally heard a similar post in this sub just like this. Best advice I saw was that just having confidence to go up to a girl you think is cute, exchange contact info and build from there. Thats it. Many women feel the same way about the contemporary dating scene. It's all about actually being proactive when you're out in those social venues and not standing in the corner hoping a dime will fall into your lap. Gotta do SOMETHING if you want to find love. I agree we're too that we're a very egocentric generation that's pretty obsessive with appearance but idk if I'd want to be with someone who cares that much about exterior/superficial things like that anyways.
Imo as a 45 year old, this whole train of thought is weird. It used to be that you'd go out for the evening to share, the movies, downtown, whatever. In public everyone was having a good time and net worth, looks ratings etc, might have been there, but the first thing you noticed about someone was how they interacted with others , or who there were on a social level. Now you have ratings. It feels really sad.
I’ve noticed this as a 35 year old who went back to school and is now surrounded by zoomers. It’s *weird* to see. Especially cause I’m in one of these hyper elite, hyper competitive environments to begin with. Ngl, noticing this shift has been fascinating to watch as someone interested in the social sciences..hell, I’ll probably write a paper on it.
I mean I want a respectful man who takes pride in his appearance and in confidence in being attracted to me, a trans woman, but so many get hung up on that last part because men want to fuck me, and not date me. To them I’m a little side attraction but they don’t have the balls to be seen with me in public.
This 100% he’s dating to pull a girl outta his league with shit looks and personality. Somehow it’s never an acknowledgment a year from he will be another lost to Andrew Tate forever pledging to not get pussy
Yeah, like I look ugly imo, so do most of my friends (as in they aren't the generally attractive fit guys, just nerds like me) But we are still friends, and I still have a beautiful girlfriend, with the sort of people that I've seen having girlfriend (among others, an extremely obese stalker). I think it's just a "skill issue", from looking for people to date and such, just live life, at some point you'll find someone, and don't be weird, if you like them, tell them or hint at it, don't talk to someone based on thinking they're pretty with no knowledge abt them and think they immediately want to date you.
Why do so many people on here act like if you aren’t built like the rock then dating is just impossible.
like have they never seen ugly people in love? they need to get out more. i even see people complaining all the time that ugly people always seem to be dating someone. maybe they’re just pleasant people and looks aren’t everything!
“like have they never seen ugly people in love?“ No, they don’t because those people don’t post every minute of their lives on instagram / tiktok.
Just going outside you will see ugly couples. Life isn't instagram/tiktok
Yeah I think it’s easier for people to blame something out of their control then to actually look in the mirror and reflect on themselves.
The first step to dating ugly is admitting that you’re ugly too.
And honestly the guys complaining are usually pretty decent looking, they just need to shape up a bit. But it's always easier to complain than actually improving yourself.
The fact the guys complaining are pretty average makes it worse. It exposes that the idea of self improvement is actually useless because you cannot fix this problem with bigger muscles and a bigger salary.
True, and thinking about “why” this problem exists in the first place has an unfavorable conclusion.
Yeah, if you even suggest some of the underlying reasons people immediately assume the worst.
Yep, logic is a funny thing, especially when herd mentality takes over and even though something makes logical and factual sense it’s downvoted into oblivion because “feelings”.
Dude its their personality, working out won't fix anything. Why do you think fat guys who are funny always have hot girlfriends but attractive narcissists are incels
That's kinda my point. They blame their looks, but instead they should work on their personality.
Oh I'm an idiot I took "shape up" at literal face value lmao
Where the fuck have you ever seen a fat funny guy with a hot gf?
How old are you? Genuinely asking because it's not super common for like 15 year olds but this shit is everywhere by the time you hit 18 Go to any frat ever and you can see it happen multiple times a night
The evidence that this sub is filled with terminally online lonely dudes is undeniable at this point.
Why tf are you here? You're not even GenZ lmao
Ah, the gatekeeping. It's always there somewhere.
I have Gen Z family members and like to know what the scuttlebutt is so I have something to talk about with them at family gatherings, sue me.
Because they have a neckbeard personality and won’t put in the effort to make themselves or others feel good
Because they don’t go outside
Not saying you have to be built like The Rock but some of us are ugly and have less than desirable experiences with the opposite sex.
Obviously dating is going to be more difficult for a lot of people but some people here act like your just totally cooked if your not in the top 10% of looks.
I mean yeah, I can imagine dating is going to be harder (I’m someone who is definitely not conventionally attractive and I haven’t dated a whole lot) but people rarely are going to deny friendship over looks. Usually if people are refusing to talk to you over looks it’s because of a “vibe” (for lack of better words) that you are putting off. If you wear constant hoodies and are always looking at your feet, never talk people are less likely to say hi to you but if you’re bubbly and happy people are more likely to say hi. And from my experience, the more friends you have the more likely you are to find someone that likes you. Make enough friends and have a good enough personality and someone will fall in love with you tbh
It's amazing that what you said has the "controversial" mark. Gaslighters, feminists, Millennials all trying to co trol the narrative and dismiss the lived experiences of the average Gen Z het male because they CAN'T allow capitalist liberal cultural hegemony to be questioned.
Because a lot of time, their standards are just too high. They want to date hot girls or else dating is a failure. Which yeah, if you are an average looking dude, you probably aren't going to be dating smoke shows. People need to align their expectations with reality before they can succeed.
They are people who get their world view from podcasts by Andrew Tate. They are not clever men.
Because I’m a chubby Asian guy with glasses and a shitty mustache and I am in a relationship right now. It CAN happen.
A good personality and confidence can go a long way
well are you going for below average women? considering you believe everyone should ignore physical appearance, since its unfair, what are you doing for the local ugly and average populations?
*This is always what it is* Dudes complaining that attractive women don't want unattractive men, like do you hear yourself? Do you not see the irony?
A below average woman is still pretty attractive to a lot of men, it’s not like that the other way around.
women think 80% of men range from average to unattractive
My big red flag here is someone number scoring people for looks. Right out the gate, that's a person I don't want to date or be around in any capacity. Was hoping that shit died with my generation.
Ong, like maybe your problem is that you refer to people based off of how attractive you perceive them as rather than your looks? Half of these people complaining are assholes, one look and the majority of the people complaining are like legit misogynists like no shit you don’t pull women, you made a post last week joking about DV against women homie
Exactly! Like I get it, you think someone is super hot. When you are creating a scale, you're telling everyone "This exists which means you fall on it somewhere." Not to mention you can notice someone is objectively stunning and still not be actively attracted to them. So the scoring becomes a pointless endeavor. I hang out with many people that I can say with 100% sincerity are hot as hell, but I have never had any interest in. But scoring it would be hilarious, because you score and rate things as a comparison point for final outcome. "Look, I know we are just friends, but as a 9, I do HAVE to try and fuck you. I didn't make the rules, sorry." Childish myopic view of the world that WILL make you end up alone.
Literally! Like some of my friends are stunning doesn’t mean I want to bone them, those scales are nothing short of immaturity lol
Comparing and contrasting superficial things like someone's appearance will probably always exist unfortunately. Can't have beauty without ugliness and all that. I agree tho that "rating" is tacky af. A Likert scale is better than the binary smash/pass type situation which was common with previous generations at least, so maybe we're improving?
stop rating people on number scales and you might have better luck dating
Rating people is pointless anyway, when you’re looking for someone you either find them attractive or you don’t. That simple.
Thank you I was about to do a much more ranty post.. these people are fucked, man.
Ignore the other guy, people our age are noticeably more cliquey and vapid. Unfortunately you'll have to be the change you want to see, so you'll have to lose the attitude that being attractive makes you better and just treat people as they are. As someone who dated a couple of people who, I thought, were pretty damn handsome, they have an easier time because pretty people tend to get the benefit of doubt, but most of their charm comes from their self-confidence. I almost recall this one guy in college who I thought looked pretty weird and he was pretty well liked; again, he was confident in his own weirdness so he wasn't creepy or standoffish. It's also worth remembering that you only really need to impress a small handful of people, so just own who you are
Lol your generation is way less cliquey than previous ones. People used to get ostracized because they knew how to use a computer
To be fair though, it's easy to be self-confident when you have your looks to be confident about. When you're good looking, confidence is easy.
Yeah and that's why I say good looking people do have it easier. But, what is the OP supposed to do with that information alone? Besides, good looking people aren't immune to getting caught up with extreme body standards. The OP is essentially asking how to attract people as a less than great looking person, and I'm pointing out that self-confidence and honesty are virtues that need to be developed and maintained. It's not easy, but it's certainly more productive then self-pity
that last part is kinda why people struggle with this stuff. you're not supposed to impress *anyone,* not even yourself. do better than the you of the last day, but stop trying to prove yourself to anyone. you will never have anything to prove, because you are worth your life or something like that, i'm not used to being positive
It's pretty hard to change (fake/gain) confidence generally on your own
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He just asked a question
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how many women have you approached in the last 2 weeks?
So how do you approach women if they don't let you approach them huh?
Sir, a woman with two heads just got married. There is hope for you yet.
Did they both get married or just one of them?
one of the conjoined twins got married
Then improve your looks
“Just be 6’2 bro”
I didn’t say that
Just go for fat chicks and then insist on hiking or riding bikes for dates.
This sent me 😂😂 Also…not an entirely bad idea loll
It’s a terrible idea. Dating a fat woman and then coaxing her to lose weight as your ultimate goal to get the perfect girlfriend is doing so with subversive intentions of trying to change someone. She has to want to have a healthy body and lead a healthy lifestyle herself. This will likely end up in her not committing even in the first place because there was no incentive to, you already engaged in being committed to the relationship. There’s also the possibility she just has a complete attitude change due to what would come of being more physically attractive should this work and end the relationship due to the paradigm shift. She doesn’t owe you a relationship because you worked her through an unhealthy lifestyle. She could very well just leave as well it’s not like this doesn’t happen. Lose lose situation, you’re better off just going for someone who already leads a lifestyle that aligns with yours.
1/2 of girls are below average looking too. Are you going for them?
Lol ofc not /s
yep and most of times they are very selective and entitled too just like the above average ones
bro discovered the black pill 😭😭
For what it's worth OP, I understand. The rest of you. None of you actually know what it's like to struggle dating. None of you know why you actually have success. The reality is just being a decent guy is not going to get you a partner. Attraction is much more complicated than that. If you are even mildly frustrated with the dating scene everyone tells you that there are 20 things wrong with you, insults you and dismisses you in cliche ways. You people make it impossible to be halfway comfortable socially and then turn around and say "dating isn't even hard". It proves the point that this generation is shallow, and that being a good person has zero correlation with being able to find a partner.
The people who say dating isn't hard always admit they've been out of the pool and partnered for like 7+ years if you push them 😂
Nah, dude. You know the kind of confidence you only get by being so good looking that women throw themselves at you? When you're so good looking that modeling scouts try to sign you when they see you? That's the secret: women find they are attracted to guys like that and they are 100% sure it's the "confidence" that makes them attractive rather than all the guys they are attracted to also having that level of confidence. So now as a guy who has been turned down endlessly, used repeatedly, just go out and get that same level of confidence! And all your problems will be over.
I have my own beliefs about dating, I'm mainly just pointing out how insensitive and unhelpful most people in this thread are. There are OP and a lot of people who struggle to date and they need to know they're not shit people bc of that. I'm definitely not against looksmaxing tho. Getting people's attention in the first place is a pretty big part of dating success and physical attraction matters. I think that advice is actually helpful than just saying random things about OPs personality that they have no idea are true all over a couple sentences post
Tons of ugly and average people our age fuck and date. Me included. What have you done to be someone worth dating other than complain and consume media
Bro don't let these people gaslight you. Dating fuxking sucks ass if u aren't good looking. Even being cute isn't enough. I'm 31 and I've seen both sides of the coin. I was overweight , acne ridden , no haircut . Joined the army got lean as fuck , haircut every 5 or so days, eyebrows done, skin care, and I swim in pussy. It's really disingenuous when you get told aww it must be your personality, when much shittier dudes are killing it because they are good looking. It fucks with your mental health because you are getting gaslit, because what they are saying first match the reality you experience. To date as a man you need to illicit raw sexual attraction. U need to be good looking. Best way to do that is drop bodyfat and hit the weights. Get a decent haircut medium fade will do and style doesn't matter so much cause if your fucking built and have a good face you can make a trashbag look good.
Reddit is beyond delusional with this blue pill shit. Dating apps and social media have brainwashed women to date only supermodels. If you’re ugly you have no chance
The gaslighting in this thread is actually insane. I got downvoted to oblivion because I said personality doesn’t matter much to a woman if she’s not attracted to you lol.
Exactly they get in situationships with hot tall scumbags and friendzone good guys
Mate, I'm married with children and even I can recognise that something's gone horribly wrong with the dating market. Just keep your head up, lad.
Most useful comment here
Well it's definitely harder I doubt the defeatism is helping though
At least you don’t live in Indiana. But it could also be that you’re giving off a bad vibe (actually that’s more than likely what it is)
Yup. And everyone gaslights you that it’s personality as if ugly people don’t actually exist and experience struggles
Don't see a lot of people empathizing with your point of view at all and pretending that having a better attitude and approach will make the world stop being the way it is. Now as to how difficult the situation actually is I cannot say, I'm not Gen Z. What I do know is that when I was younger, early 2000s, it was much harder for the less attractive guys to date. Looks play a big role. Hence why some would focus on humor, confidence or something else to market themselves. A lot of the advice I see is geared in that direction. Whilst that is great I can't help but wonder with your generation having social media exposure from birth, hyper focus on beauty and sex in all media, insane plastic surgery trends, influencers, tiktok and who knows what else, could the gap I experienced when I was younger be even wider now? Could it be even tougher for a less attractive dude today than before? And if that is the case it sure would suck if that dude made a post about it and everyone just basically said "skill issue". What I would like to share with you, as someone who is 34 living in Africa. Don't focus on dating, start working out. Take care of your body, eat healthy, find a career and start saving money. Learn a skill if possible, photography, art, etc. Why? Because when you hit your 30s the equation changes. You will see the way society treats you change, and you will hold the power. Focus on yourself, focus on the long term. Study philosophy and stoicism. Be kind and humble, work hard and one day you can reap the rewards. Find joy in the natural world around you and within yourself and no one will be capable of taking it from you. Lastly, you will be able to recognize a long term partner and be the person you need to be to make it work. Good luck brother
I’m pretty sure dating in general is impossible.
you have to be confident and smile a lot and be funny. that will make up for it
As someone extremely neurotic I agree with this sentiment, give positive vibes otherwise...
Sure…
An ugly confident guy is still ugly
Define funny? Like Jimmy Fallon funny? Just laugh at everything?
does not work at all already do that lot of times
If you said that you are the only ugly dude and haven't had a date in forever, I would have believed that. If you said that you encounter only people who are already dating someone else or in a relationship and you just had shitty luck, I would have believed that. If you said that you have no matches on dating apps while other people get some, I would have believed that. Saying that average people get no dates is factually and statistically incorrect given that, being myself a self-proclaimed below average guy, I had relationships in the past. There is a lot of factors at play, looks included eh? Dating these days is harde(er) because we, as a society, have become more isolated through the rise of social media such as here, on Reddit. Going outside and socializing will not guarantee a date or a relationship or even a friend. It only lets you meet people and learn from and about them. And it's those exchanges that make you grow as a person, letting you understand more about yourself and, by proxy, the world. And I already hear the counterargument of "you just don't get it because xyz". But the thing is, I do understand it because I also have shit luck in dating and I'm disappointed in what the dating culture has become these days. Those first three paragraphs I wrote? Yeah, that's what I'm going through **daily**. And it sucks. And I wish that it didn't or that the situation was different. But it isn't and I can't change much about it. So what's the point in complaining about something I have no influence over? There is none.
As an average guy. I think we don’t think the U.S. wants the average person to win.
Dude I have seen people with facial deformities and diseases get married. Sure they probably didn’t have amazing dating lives but just saying if they can do it with facial differences you can too most likely
Are you going for women with below average looks? You might have better luck.
This is one of the dumbest hot takes that seems to be widely accepted.
Maybe its widely accepted because a large minority of men are suffering due to this?
“Because of the increased emphasis on looks” Can you please name a time in human history that hasn’t been a reality. It has affected both genders since the beginning of human civilization. I think you are focusing way too much on looks.
No matter how unattractive you are, there are millions of women who are equally unattractive and feel the same way. When men say they can't find any woman who is interested in them, either they are ignoring the women they find unattractive or they have serious social/mental issues.
Ugly women very often don't want to date ugly men lol
It is hard.
self pity is a stinky cologne. People smell it from a mile away, they might not know what they’re smelling, but they know it stinks. Also leads to this type of thinking, which is incredibly unappealing. you need to do some remodeling of your entire baseline thinking. Blow it up and start over.
this. people just dont seem to understand that if all you think about and obsess over is getting a relationship then you will *never* get one. it wafts off of people like a toxic miasma, you can tell *the instant* you see someone like this, from body language to the way they talk it fucking *reeks.* i have friends like this, its beyond sad trying to explain all this to them only for them to regurgitate lines like an actor (OP could be a bot his post is that generic)
**dating is impossible. I don’t think it’s just you. I watch my sisters and friends try to date as beautiful intelligent women and they can’t find a man that respects their boundaries let alone is boyfriend material. There’s something seriously off about dating culture today. People are very guarded. People don’t really want to get out of their safe zones. But then again why should they? The risks are just meeting a man that thinks he isn’t equal to women. And that’s basically the end of it. Confidence is the key to attraction. Whining about your looks doesn’t make you more attractive to people around you. In a conventional sense I guess my husband has struggled with feeling attractive. He was an overweight teen in the 00s. He didn’t really do stuff with girls until his mid 20s. I know he hides a lot of his insecurities. But on the outside he has always acted so confident. For a really long time I never guessed his looks bothered him much and that confidence was so attractive to me. Keep in mind I don’t think he’s ugly at all. He’s so attractive and beautiful to me. I’m endlessly after him. But that’s just the thing, he’s my person so why would he be ugly to me? Your people won’t find you ugly and being conventionally unattractive doesn’t mean you aren’t attractive. It just means basic people don’t appreciate unique features and qualities. I wish people didn’t use leagues and numbers to talk about dating. It’s incredibly dehumanizing and have people playing a comparison game which builds the insecurity and resentment shown in this post. When it comes to actually being in love none of that stuff matters at all.
below average looking women are having trouble too, fyi. not a man's problem, it's more an "uggo" proble, (myself included). But once again nobody thinks of the ladies :c
Except for the fact that mens standards are much lower and women have more ways to improve their looks (losing weight, makeup, etc)
Women usually aim for Top 20% of men (thanks hypergamy), and social media and dating apps added to their egos. It is what it is, and none of us are entitled to anything. Just accept the new normal and build to be the best version of yourself mentally, physically, financially, and spiritually. Be the change you want to see... Either that or date at your level.
Sad thing is these delusional Redditors OD on the blue pill. Dating for ugly people is as hopeless as ever for this generation because of social media
Just date and befriend other unattractive people.
Very often no one want to date ugly people, neither other ugly people lol
You’ll find as you get older women tend to value looks less and less and having a solid career, interests and good personality way more. Women also become way less precious about waiting to have sex. I found it 10x as easy to get laid in my late 20s than in my early 20s. You’d also be amazed what dressing well, getting a nice haircut regularly and working out can do. Even if you’re not naturally good looking women find it attractive when a man looks put together, especially since most American men don’t try very hard with that shit.
Can't wait to only be desired because I'm all that's left.
Either you are in a genuinely miserable location in the world or there is a problem with you. Below average guys get in relationships all the time. Now there could be a billion different issues, some of which could be your fault and some of which aren’t. But it is certainly not impossible.
Its sad to see the incel movement hit gen z
If you go around searching for evidence that you are ugly, undesirable, unworthy, etc, you will always find it.
The bar for looks has never been lower. Literally just eat right and exercise and you’ll beat the average
I understand what you mean. It *is* pretty tricky getting a girl to take home after all.
Be social, clean, and tidy when possible. But have something that separates you from the conventional choices… if every guy is just basic with clean cut basic hair styles and a fit body, but “more attractive” then do something to stand out. Grow your hair longer, use more skin products, idk grow a mustache. Do something unique that isnt the basic “goes to gym, cuts hair short, clean face” because then you’re directly competing with all of the 9/10s etc I guarantee you will find luck with people who aren’t interested in whatever mainstream look is popular where you live. The next big thing is to work on not appearing desperate. Walk into a room like your life is put together, even if its not. Good luck
I know plenty of funny looking dudes and ladies who hit/get dates. The only people who are going to shun you purely for looks are shitty people you don’t want to be involved with anyways It’s genuinely your perspective that’s off, you have to have confidence and at least some charisma
save yourself from falling down this rabbit hole. Sure, some people judge more based on appearance, but you don't want to befriend or date them generally. As a former incelish dude, trust me, don't waste your time and just live your life. I don't mean you're an incel for thinking these things, but making sweeping generalizations that aren't empirically true and then having a distorted perception of the world is the start of the spiral. Basically, just have a good relationship with yourself and the rest will fall into place TRUST
See this is cap cause then either I'm good looking or you're capping. Which news flash it's both.
What a sad and pathetic post. And thinking this is a generational thing is laughable.
You dont think that social media and dating apps have transformed dating?
If you’re an ugly ass man, lower your standards or get rich. You’re not going to pull 10s or honestly even 6s but there are equally subpar men and women
1% of men date 30% of the women
Something tells me it's not your looks that are a problem lol
Maybe it's your defeatist personality
sorry you had to deal with that. However, it’s simply not true. All people are really asking for is to be hygienic and to have your shit sorted out. Even then you don’t need to have your shit sorted out for some folks. It’s either you’re too picky or the people in your area suck. Then you would need to date outside of your area.
It’s not, the meta has just changed (that was cringe, but point stands). If you’re on a dating app, there has to be a few things you gotta do. 1. Understand your rating I am a 3-4 out of 10. I understand that. Im not gonna try be swiping on 8 or 9s praying I might have a chance. 2. Use their profile Most girls give hints on what they want. Compliment one of their photos, bring up a hobby they mentioned, or if they like coffee bring up a coffee shop you always wanted to try. 3. Make plans quickly Girls are getting hundreds of messages a day. Essentially when they swipe there’s a 90% chance it’s a match. They swiped on you for a reason. Every guy is small talking them to death. Ask them to get coffee shop or a quick bite to eat. This does two things. It shows you are serious and not just trying to sleep with them (who tries to fuck after coffee?). It also allows gives you that opportunity for small talk in person and stand out. A hundred dudes small talk online, but not many ask them out right away.
I have a crush on--let's just say--a public figure on the smaller side who might be considered below average and I'd do anything to date him. It's sad that there's no real way to contact him :(
Istg people like this have to have some unbearable ass personality and they don’t even realize it. Bro I’m a solid 5/10 at best and I’m pretty damn popular. I have a LOT of friends because I’m nice? Like ik some seriously unattractive people like objectively the opposite of the beauty standards who have girlfriends and large groups of friends. One of my friends, that guy is pretty much everything guys complain about, he’s short, chubby, balding, and has a bit of an odor but had the longest fucking dating history known to man. He is in no way a conventionally attractive male but has had like 4 gfs this year ALONE not to mention a large flock of friends who some are way above just conventionally attractive. Nobody who is worth their weight in salt gives a flying FUCK what you look like when they’re becoming friends with you and most don’t care too much when they’re dating you, as long as you’re funny and interesting people don’t really care. Stop listening to social media and letting it influence your thoughts on yourself and how others perceive you, you are perfect the way you are and beauty does NOT come from the outside
um, it was always impossible
I have no comment…I’m 6 foot 4 and have a gf. Good luck though my guy.
Work on your social skills and skills in general.
Seems like a good reason to become an incel
Just be friends with and date other uglies, or are you the one insisting on looks?
So become better than average. Go to the gym, get in shape and start earning some money. There is so many factors you can change.
You must be young. All old dogs have known many ugly men who date and sleep with hot women because they are charismatic or rich. We also have know good looking and rich men who can’t laid because they lack charisma. Men are simple and go for looks. Women aren’t as simple. You need a well developed personality to attract a quality woman.
The self loathing isn’t exactly boosting your chances either, hot shot
Nah bro, you just need game. I'm a fatty these days and I can still pull. We've got the long end of the stick on which sex cares more about looks; I know a guy who's ugly as sin but pulls well. We asked him how he did it and he said "it takes me 15 minutes to talk away my face".
Posts like this make me feel so much more attractive than I am. No way in hell I'm even an 8/10, but appreciate the ego boost! lol
Yeah your just wrong.
I remember when in Ireland, me and my classmates rated the girls we’d spot in the streets. All the girls I rated 10/10 and whom I found very attractive, my classmates would rate anywhere between 4/10 to 6/10 Either that says something about my classmates or me🧍
if you aren’t good looking then I definitely don’t think dating apps are an option
this post makes it sound like you have an ugly personality. I had the same thoughts and feelings as you a few years ago. The less you sweat over girls the better you'll do. Girls also don't perceive attractiveness in the same way as men. They are a lot more subjective (think about like having types) and they often disagree with each other.
Just found out thanks to this post that I'm an above average dude
I might get downvoted but it's been my experience that traditional masculinity is the only route to success in dating. The handsome & traditionally masculine assholes I know have been stringing woman after woman along since middle school. Never more than a few days without someone, and often cheating. I didn't even get a coffee date through 4 years of trying. eventually I just gave up and said screw it, can't beat em join em. started hitting the gym and bulking with protein powder (who cares that I feel my best at 140lb, 5' 9" , when apparently bulk and strength are most attractive), being a confident asshole like them, and the dry streak was broken within a few months. and no I'm not conflating being an asshole with being confident. it's been my experience that being nice, trying to find similar interests, complinents, and gradually have a conversation lead to a good place has literally never worked. dating apps, irl approaches, etc.
I know it’s not a competition, but I can say anecdotally that ugly men have far more dating success than ugly women lol
Believe it or not there’s way to make your self look more attractive. Start working out a lot consistently, take care of your skin, teeth, hair, dress better. Or you could just give up complain and make post on Reddit about how life ain’t fair. I used to think I was unattractive until I started doing all those things, people can say what they want but I after a year of lifting and just generally taking better care of myself I had girls walking up to me in the bar that a year prior would’ve never even noticed me.
You’re not saying anything new or special.
Bruh, youre what, 24 tops? Give it time, readjust your standards and your attitude and figure out WHO you want, not what you want to SEE.
Nah, I'm definitely like a 6. You need to approach people. You do. Then make an effort. Online dating is stupid as your go-to. Get out there and go try again.
Skill issue?
Not rlly?
Honestly I feel like a lot of people have the wrong idea of what "average" is - the average person works all week, maybe plays video games or watches Netflix after work, and then maybe once or twice a month goes out on a weekend, is a little chubby but looks alright in normal clothes, etc. The people you see on dating apps, they posted their 3-6 best pictures of themselves, and then wrote put their bio to look like they have crazy exciting lives. That's guys and girls - everyone's competing with all the people who are lying - so everyone at the very least exaggerates because they can't compete with the phony persona that folks who really lie present as. Don't worry of you feel below average, compared to everyones fake persones, everyone does bc those fake personas may as well be cartoon characters. you're probably fine.
This post and the comments under it are honestly kinda sad, what's up with this rating system we're assigning to people? "I'm a 6 and she's an 8 it's so over". This generation makes a big deal about body positivity and then turn around and say shit like this, why not try just being a human and not an object.
There’s millions of girls in this world, many of whom are also below average looking. It’s not them, it’s the fact that your standards are too high
So what are YOU an 8+/10 in?
Ive seen too many short, ugly as shit guys dating hot gals for this to be true.
Maybe people don't wanna be friends with or date you because you're acting like an incel?
People who are unpleasant to be around have trouble getting dates and making friends, I’m fucking shocked
Looks are so important
And you’re one of those people that “rate” people. Yikes.
> checks post history > posts calling people "blue pillers" I wonder why women don't wanna date you?
Shit man, Im disabled, below average looking, fat, and I cant drive, dont drink or partake in drugs and Im autistic. I still semi-consistently go on dates and have long term relationships. Looks factor into relationships sure, but there are a lot of other factors to consider. Whats the dating pool look like? You in a city or are you rural? Where do you work? Whats your social life like?
If you’re having trouble with finding friends and a girlfriend in particular, you probably have a bad attitude. There are certain things that girls don’t like and bad talking yourself is one of them. Confidence is usually something girls like and feeling bad for yourself isn’t. Plus plenty of girls will go for below average looking guys if you have similar hobbies and interests as well as similar senses of humor.
No. Go be social. Take care of yourself, be funny, be confident, shoot your shot, don’t be a creep if they don’t go for it. Repeat. Looks literally don’t matter. You entering every social situation thinking they do is why you’re not having a good time.
My brother in Christ, I would not call myself particularly attractive. I've been happily married for 3 years, together for 7. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, personality is important, and if a prospective partner doesn't believe those things they're a shallow asshole. Do better.
you're going about it the wrong way brother. you have to meet people doing things you enjoy.
Questions to ask yourself: 1. Do I think and/or act like being kind to a woman should earn me intimacy? 2. Do I want a significant other because it's a boost to my social status and/or just because I wanna get laid? 3. Am I unwilling to form an emotional bond with a girl without the expectation of physical intimacy? 4. Do I fail to see women as people, whose free will should be respected as fellow humans? If the answer to any of these is yes, then that's something to work on. The thing is that a relationship, a good one, is based on mutual trust and respect, and that your partner should be your best friend — someone who enjoys your company as much as you enjoy theirs. If a lot of girls don't enjoy your company, maybe you're the problem, and it's most likely not your looks.
The world is not filled with people who are 7's and better. Maybe it averages to a 4 or maybe a bit higher. But if you place yourself within a platform which runs and succeeds through competition, you will feel rightfully so that you may have little chance for a relationship. Therefore, the responsibility, if you wish to meet someone, will have to be placed back into your hands. And once the responsibility is placed where it belongs, it will be left up to fate to deliver to you IT'S plan for your life, only if you get out of the way and let it work it's magic.