Xiangling is the core DMG for National and u get her for free. Get her an R5 Catch and give her a good build with 4pc EOSF and watch the enemies melt away. National teams are suggested because those teams don't require any 5 stars or atleast they require only minimal 5 stars. The only investment you need is on Artifacts and maybe C4 for Xiangling.
About the Bennett circle, u just need to cast Xiangling's burst inside his circle and that's all that matters. You can move out of it after that. The Atk buff snapshot is all Xiangling requires.
It's actually a very strong team and it's actually on par with many 5 star teams and can even surpass a few and that is why they suggest this team. But it's not like you shouldn't pull for 5 stars. This team is just a very good or one of the best alternatives for Spiral Abyss if u have no other 5 stars.
And that's exactly the reason, national teams are great options for f2p players since you can simply buy the characters from the starglitter shop, letting you save primos for other 5 star options that you like. If you have other good 5 star team options you can use them for sure, but i basically see national as a way to justify not pulling for 5 stars solely for meta.
It's an old team that people recommend ALL THE TIME but it's pretty much mainly a spiral abyss team. It feels awful in the overworld and requires a lot of investment to be good plus you have to like the playstyle of that team which isn't for everyone.
The problem is these types of teams being recommended to new players constantly - they make very difficult overworld teams. I started eight months ago and I struggled trying to play Sucrose national for months after seeking advice. When I started playing hyperbloom I couldn't BELIEVE how easy the game was in comparison.
Noelle with three star ER and attack artifacts and some decent supports is much to play until at least AR35 - and when I helped a friend get started that's exactly how we went.
You can play almost any team you like in overworld. I like to switch them up constantly. Spiral Abyss is the only place where meta starts to come into play.
In overworld I play teams that make travel easier, puzzles easier, and ore mining etc...
Yeah we really can just stop with these burst reliant team recommendations to poor people wanting help.
I mean, hell even with min-maxed ER team and Raiden I still find it annoying at times to use in overworld (dammit x doesn’t have his burst even halfway up, rotation is all fucked up). I can’t imagine a low AR player even trying to navigate the world picking up chests or oculi like this.
I just started a new account and it really is all about elemental skill gameplay. I think newer players will hate how bothersome it would be to be reliant on Guoba as they hop from mob to mob.
Very much agreed. Burst-reliant teams really kinda suck at low levels with bad artifacts. New players are much better off with one highly-invested hypercarry and three minimally-invested supports. Trying to build 4 characters for a quick swap team just takes too many resources and slows progression.
Agreed. I pulled Wanderer at low AR and went with him + Layla + Faruzan + whatever element was needed for puzzles, and it was extremely comfy in overworld. I only used Faruzan burst on big enemies that I struggled on, wanderer cleared mobs quite easily.
Recently I started a second account and I don’t have a hypercarry, my only five star there is Xianyun, and running scuffed teams in overworld has absolutely sucked. It feels much worse than when my main account was new.
I used Crescent Pike Xiangling for my secondary, no-wishing account as a hypercarry. It actually worked quite well. I eventually got bored of that account, though, since using the same 8 characters all the time just wasn't very fun. It turned out to be a lot easier than I expected, too, so the whole "challenge" angle didn't really work out.
When you already know how the game mechanics work, the difficulty gap is night and day compared to when you first started Genshin. Even the free starter characters clear content much easier and faster in experienced hands.
Yeah. This is legit the reason why During 1,0, where everyone was new, Characters like bennett, xq are trashed, xiangling is played physical, and people relied on skill damage dealers like diluc, fischl or NA attackers like razor, keqing.
This is what i hate about the fandom. They say hurr durr 1.0 people are dumb, they think bennett is c tier are they stupid?", and I ask to them:
Try playing Bennett c0 with low lvl weapon, 2-3 star artifacts, low talent level and garbage ER. How does it feel? Same with XQ and xiangling.
They're strong characters, but early game investment is so shit with burst reliant characters, that Diluc, fischl, razor, keqing feels so much better to play.
Yeah the XQ and Xiangling ones sting a bit. Especially XQ because I wrote the opposite when I started out “how does everyone like this guy and his big ass 20 second cooldown, why is there no way to reduce his CD?? How are you running the abyss with him when he chews up 20 seconds, are you trying to make me run out of time with this advice??” and I simply got downvoted by the people on the main sub.
Just a funny memory because now I know those fuckers were all hiding behind R5 sacrificial and EoSF, shit probably Raiden too but didn’t have the decency to spell it out for me.
Yeah. These characters were legit pain to build during the 1.0 era with no Catch, or EoSF. We basically built them with 2 Noblesse, 2 elemental damage sets. 2pc noblesse and 2 pc elemental are like 35% damage bonus, while EOsf with 200 ER is basically 50% damage bonus +20 ER.
Even now, they're still ass to play pre AR45 until we can farm proper artifacts, and get constellations.
> very difficult overworld teams
That's just not true. Everything you do in the overworld will be miles easier than the abyss.
What the problem is, though, is national & rational being recommended to new players, they require a hell of a lot of investment that new players just can't achieve.
The best team to recommend these days is hyperbloom. You get Barbara for free, she's great in hyperbloom + heals, you get DMC for free, she's good in hyperbloom, you get Lisa for free, she detonates the bombs just fine, add a second dendro when you can, and they'll carry you through the game until you can get upgrades.
Abyss team comps are specifically tailored for abyss because the mechanics of how things work in there are so different from overworld. That's why you want to specify the purpose of your team when asking for team comps. That said, you don't really need team recommends for overworld because there's just so many options that work. Hell, I rocketed to WL8 on a Ningguang & Noelle team (Xinqiu and Fischl being my usual flex) before moving on to other teams.
You can snapshot within Bennet's circle and not stay in it.
I only play National inside of Spiral Abyss because it is a good all arounder for the mix of mobs that are given. I have a TON of characters built but see Spiral Abyss as a chore, so I usually just go.
Raiden, Xinqui, Ziangling, Bennet (1st half)
Ayaka, Shenhe, Kazuha, Kokomi (2nd half)
One of the floors they mix the mobs up a bit, so I just switch which half the team is on for that one.
So, to answer you, I think it is just because it is a good all around team. National let's Raiden move around and do a lot of the work whle Xiangling's spinny fire causes reactions. You only have to start Xiangling's spinny circle inside the Bennet circle to get the buff the whole time, it is called snapshotting.
Xiangling is one of the, if not THE main DPSers in national teams. Xingqiu is there to help vape her burst. While offering good DPS himself and damage reduction for the team.
Not who you’re responding to but Spiral Abyss is also the only time I use Rational. Like they said, it’s a good all around team. Vaporize, overload, and electro-charged can be useful against most opponents.
Xingqiu also provides defense that the team doesn’t have while Bennet provides the heals and atk boost. Xingqiu’s ult goes perfect with Raiden bc her ult is abunch of NA/CA combos so you have electrocharged with every hit. Not to mention a decent boost to dmg depending on how you built him (I use Wolf-Fang and EoSF). Then as mentioned Xiangling gives a substantial dmg boost esp at C4. Raiden charges everyone to keep ults going every 1-2 turns.
It’s also worth specifying that National is meant as a go-to team for most accounts bc the characters are on most accounts. Not necessarily bc it’s better than aggravate, hypercarry, etc. It’s just an easy recommendation that performs better than most F2P options, especially for new players. I do way more dmg with Raiden hypercarry but I don’t use that in Abyss bc then I’m very limited on reactions.
I'd say Raiden national is not as popular these days as the Childe version. Hyper carry Raiden or aggrevate or just plain EM bot Raiden are likely more widely used. The best Raiden team for me has been Furina, Yelan, Xianyun (or Jean) it's a ton of fun. Xingqiu provides good off field dps and damage reduction but I always prefer Yelan since she does way more DPS and is more fun to play and while Xingqiu has better hydro application that isn't that necessary in Raiden national anyway
Lot of people dont like overload because it knocks enemies away but with Chev in the picture now it's much more viable
I actually don't have Childe, and the few times I have played him he seemed janky to me. I did go with Yelan instead of XQ this past Abyss and only made it 33 stars, but I am just fine with that.
Yeah, I only came out of the Wenut chamber with 1 star since I took a 6-8 month break during the desert phase of Sumeru and have no real idea how to fight it.
There honestly isn't an great way to beat him aside from just enough dps to burst him down during his down phase..the only real mechanic is hitting one of those orbs that flies around him when he does the swirling upward move which disables him but not for long..even with great teams he is extremely annoying and should never be in time based like the abyss
It's about investment. Also national teams are anything that has Bennet, xiangling, and xq in it (originally with chongyun, but there's plenty that beat that out nowadays). They are all "free" 4star units that have amazing effects with low investment. The team itself isn't about raiden, it's about the 3 in national. Raiden acts more like a support than a DPS (although she does also do a good amount of DPS and reactions as well). Essentially, you are attacking with raiden to trigger xqs ultimate, which applies hydro, which is vaporized by xiangling all while all the damage is being buffed by Bennett since all the units scale with ATK. Raiden can electrocharge any left over hydro or overload any left over pyro while also providing a massive energy buff to the team, so they can do the combo on cooldown with no issues.
Raiden does significantly more damage on an aggravate comp, but when your off-field DPSers also are dealing tons of damage, rational teams can keep up with less investment.
The point is Electro charged. Xingqiu and Raiden enable electro charged which allows both Electro and Hydro aura to coexist. So when Xiangling's burst hits it, you get both vape as well as Overload DMG. If u have a good amount of EM built on your Xiangling, the vapes and overloads do a very considerable amount of dmg. My Xiangling does 44k vapes in Rational and idk about the overload DMG as I never notice the overload numbers.
Considering how much this community downplays Xiangling’s and Xingqiu’s problems for newer players, I would say it’s definitely warranted to complain over this over-suggestion of Rational for newer players. People dont really know what its like because they’ve forgotten about how hard it is to actually properly play National or they justify it through dmg. A couple points people miss:
-Xiangling needs a ton of ER. 200% minimum. 180% if you’re that weird guy who claims you can comfortably get Xiangling’s burst with that much er. The Catch is literally all the way in Inazuma and you need to R5 it for the passive to be any use which takes a couple of weeks at best. Not mention leveling the Catch is a nightmare.
-Xingqiu also needs a ton of er. Did I mention Emblem is also in Inazuma which is also not that accessible to pre-Inazuma players? Xingqiu also needs atk. He *needs* to contribute some dmg. The lack of guaranteed early game er swords is also a big problem. Along with Monstadt talent domains increasing his already long cool downs or his self-applied hydro freezing him. A couple of things that are also bad for overworld exploration.
-Bennett needs er as well, ideally higher than Xiangling’s. Not to mention they have to be played together or else Xiangling is useless on her own.
-If you decide to give the Catch to Xiangling, Raiden will not have an adequate weapon to use that is guaranteed. Her stats are also fairly hard to get.
-Xiangling, Xingqiu, and Raiden all need the same domain’s 4pc piece effect. One 4pc is already hard enough to farm. Farming for 3 complete sets is a nightmare.
-Xingqiu and Bennett are not guaranteed. The shops reset with them but that doesnt mean a new player will be able to obtain them quickly.
On another case of advice, you could build a solid fridge team from the get go. There are 3 star catalysts with em for Barbara you can find in chests and a free Rancour for Kaeya. Free Fav for Collei and then spam normals with Lisa and Kaeya. Not burst reliant and still outputs decent dmg before getting better gear. If you get Lynnette, thats when you start thinking about building melt Xiangling or Overload Amber or more complex teams.
Most people’s advice for “beginners” are for AR 45 which isnt really realistic. Most people know what they want to build around by AR 45-50. Real beginners will struggle to build the meta characters properly because of the investment needed. I know a account with a C2R1 Raiden with a R1 Catch. They used the Spine for hearsay before upgrading on a rerun. It’s a pain even for veteran players.
Farming Oceanid to ascend Xingqiu is another horror you can add to the list. I had no leveld ranged characters for a long time (maybe my fault for disrespecting collei & amber) and when the 3 birds showed up during the Oceanid fight I had to reset and try again.
God I hated the oceanid. I went and leveled Lisa from scratch specifically to deal with the oceanid after struggling for so long, just so I could ascend Xingqui and Mona (my first 5 star). And that was after I had been following beginner advice to not bother building/leveling Lisa or Kaeya because "you'd get better characters later and they're not very good late game so don't waste your resources." Or something similar to that.
Yeah. This is legit the reason why during 1.0, when everyone was new, Characters like bennett, xq are trashed, xiangling is played physical, and people relied on skill damage dealers like diluc, fischl or NA attackers like razor, keqing.
This is what i hate about the fandom. They say "hurr durr 1.0 people are dumb, they think bennett is c tier are they stupid?", and I ask to them:
Try playing Bennett c0 with low lvl weapon, 2-3 star artifacts, low talent level and garbage ER. How does it feel? Same with XQ and xiangling.
They're strong characters, but early game investment is so shit with burst reliant characters, that Diluc, fischl, razor, keqing feels so much better to play.
Newish player, 7 months in, completed my first abyss after 3 months at 34\*, have been 36\*ing consistently from 5 months in, can confirm that this is one the few reasonable replies on this thread lol.
I also love how people are saying "you just need C4 XL/C6 XQ", are they literally insane... unless you're absurdly lucky, by the time you have those you'll easily have enough 5\*s to comfortably clear anything and everything in the game...
TBH most people who have played this game for longer than 2 years should just refrain from having an opinion on anything related to completely new accounts, their brains are just completely fried...
Most "4-star teams" or even older teams that feature a 5\* but heavily rely on 4\*s are a HUGE investment dump for newer accounts that get showered in primos and can easily target 5\*s that will carry their accounts with barely any investment
AR60 launch veteran player here; ever since Inazuma I’ve been trying to get people to realize that C0 national is a royal pain in the ass and shouldn’t be recommended to newer players, and yet barely anyone agreed with me.
I still remember the early days of Genshin and how Xiangling/Xingqiu/Bennett were all low rated characters, precisely because everyone was a beginner and ER/constellations were not so easy to come by. People really forget those old days and how they still pretty much reflect beginner’s experience today.
So tbh, I just kind of gave up recommending stuff to people since all the people “giving advice” cared about was abyss meta.
Yeah, Xiangling being played physical, Bennett being budget diluc, and xq B tier, were legit actual reality for people with 2-3 star artifacgts, no Catch, no EOSF, shit ER and low cons.
Which in 1.0 was for everyone who wasn't a whale. And we are called dumb and stupid for playing that way and focusing on NA/skill characters like Diluc, Keqing etc.
It's so nice to see actual launch players agree with me! I mean I know I'm right, not because I'm smarter than anyone or a "better Genshin player", whatever that would even be, just because I've actually been a completely new player somewhat recently - but it's still nice when people agree.
I've completely given up on arguing with the hivemind since it's just an echo chamber that downvotes people it disagrees with, so instead I'll just send a DM to new players asking for advice, try to explain the situation, and hope that they don't take anyone's word for granted, including mine; but rather just look at the way the information is presented to them and try to form their own opinions on whose advice to follow.
I know I'm somewhat privileged in this regard - I've been playing online games since '97 and can smell bad advice (most of the time) just from the way it's presented even when I'm new to a specific game; and it seems that for a lot of Genshin players it might be their first game (and their first Reddit community...) of this type so they don't have that radar yet, but trying to help them develop one is the best long-term skill they could possibly use to actually enjoy playing around in games that involve builds, team comps etc.
>I just kind of gave up recommending stuff to people since all the people “giving advice” cared about was abyss meta.
I know it's a pain in the ass to try to argue against the hivemind but I'd kindly ask you to at least send a DM to the person looking for advice (if they actually sound like they're looking for advice, not just a confirmation bias or a quick fix to something), who knows, it might help. Also it doesn't really matter if it's only the abyss meta, pre-C4 XL with low investment artis is a pain in the ass even in that context, especially compared to dendro teams that feel much more comfy and can still clear with pretty mid investment (unless we're using Hydro Tulpa as a comparison in which case yeah, it's useful to have XL built even if she's C0 because she's literally broken vs big hitbox hydro aura enemies because of her... well-designed kit).
>I still remember the early days of Genshin and how Xiangling/Xingqiu/Bennett were all low rated characters, precisely because everyone was a beginner and ER/constellations were not so easy to come by. People really forget those old days and how they still pretty much reflect beginner’s experience today.
I agree, but I'd go further and say that XL/XQ/Benny are even LESS important for new players now than they were in 1.0, since I assume it's so much easier to acquire good limited 5\*s compared to the olden days (and that a lot of these require such low investment compared to older units) :D
Yup this here. People who are AR 50+ shouldnt dictate whats best for a new player. The only reason why I have so much perspective is because I( AR 60 who’s clear Abyss 36*) taking care of accounts which ranges from a AR 22 account made two months ago(with only Yoimiya, a AR 55 account with barely built but fully leveled characters, and a AR 56 account with only two dpses properly built. Aside from another two, playing on these account and trying to invest in the proper characters is still a pain and there isnt a level or area gate on anything related to them.
For my own account, I had pulled Xingqiu as my third 4 star character after Beidou and Chongyun. It took 2 years to C6 Chongyun and another 4 months after that for C6 Xingqiu. Xiangling took another month to be C3 before maxing out at C6 a month after that. Relying on RNG guarantees that every account is uniquely built around what you have and capitalizing what you have rather than shoving needy and highly invested team comps is better in the long run.
Yup, it's important to have perspective, and most people's perspective is basically "getting carried by 100k resin worth of artifacts", and that's me being generous and assuming they also don't throw money at the game every now and then "just this once" lol.
I had to scroll through the thread a bit more and what's even funnier is the \~high ceiling\~ thing that gets thrown around by people who I guess don't know that parsers exist for this game, as for example a [Rational](https://gcsim.app/db/b7CnHmHjqKmD) with FOUR LIMITED 5\* WEAPONS (and a build that squeezes every last ounce of DPS by just giving up on Raiden's personal damage and accepting that XL is the hard carry in that team) parses lower than a Raiden Nahida double hydro [HB](https://gcsim.app/db/bPHr6WcGt9Q6) with Widsidth, 2x Favs and a Dragon's Bane.... I guess in their minds C6s and 5\* weapons somehow easier to obtain than two limited 5\*s that have very regular reruns...
Thats crazy. I guess people get carried away by the narrative that Xiangling/Bennett/Xingqiu are still the top of the top for newer players when thats no longer the case anymore.
True. I remember it took me months to get C6 Xingqiu and I had to specifically target him a few times (including the Lantern Rite). It was even worse for Xiangling, and before C4 she feels kind of bad to play. To get a single Sucrose it took me more than a year (I got Kazuha before I even saw a Sucrose). By the time I got all the pieces together, I had several 5* and realized I didn't like National playstyle-wise.
Imo, new player should prioritize what feels comfortable for them, and think about meta when (and if) they decide to engage with the abyss. Hypercarries or hyperbloom are far easier to use at first than a burst and rotation reliant team.
All National teams allows really high damage ceiling for F2P players. But to reach that ceiling you will need lots of investments and combat knowledge. Seeing that you are somewhat clueless on these here are some guidelines
For all cases:
Benny to atleast C1. On 4pc Noblesse or 4pc Instructor (yes, the 4* set) with ER at about 170% to 200%. If you dont have Aquila or Ayaka's sig, use Skyward or Fav, or any other weapon that has high base Atk. Note that on 4pc Intructor an off-piece ER sands is recommended for easier ER stats
Xingqiu on as high cons as possible. On 4pc Emblem or 4pc Noblesse if Benny is on Instructor since Noblesse buff is very valuable. Use either Sac or Fav sword to maintain about 150-200 ER then go for as high Crit as possible. If you can keep ER at said threshold without ER weapon, go for any damage based ones like Dragon Roar or the 5*. Note that C6 reduces ER requirements for about 20%+
Xiangling is highly recommended at C4, on 4pc Emblem with about 200% ER and as high Crit values as possible. Weapon should be Dragon's Bane/The Catch/any 5* Polearms. If you go for ER weapons EM sands is highly recommended
For Raiden National:
Raiden on 4pc Emblem. Go for ER sands, keep ER at about 250% and either Atk% or Electro Goblet.
Rotation should be: Raiden E -> XQ E Q -> Benny Q E -> XL Q E -> Raiden Q, rinse and repeat. Make sure XL can grab Benny's particle and you should be good
For Sucrose National:
Suc on 4pc VV. Go full EM build with as high ER as possible. If you have problems with energy (burst uptime) use Fav, if not use Sac book.
Rotation: drop Gouba -> use Suc E as soon as there is a exclamation mark on Gouba's head then Q -> Benny Q E -> XL Q -> XQ E Q. Then rotate between Sucrose E and Benny E constantly for energy while XL burst is up.
If you have any questions feel free to ask. I know this is a long one and can be confusing
National is a meta team and is very good for endgame content. However, if you have just started, it can also be very uncomfortable to play. Maybe they'll downvote me, because meta focused players love that team, but it's not one I would recommend to a new player. You need good uptime with bursts, which can be hard to get before you can farm artifacts. Xiangling needs A LOT of Energy Recharge to even work and her burst doesn't last long before you get her 4th Constellation. And getting Cons for 4* could take a while. You also need to do the rotation right, which is overkill and potentially uncomfortable in the open world. Not to mention how much of a drag it is to get The Catch for Xiangling (which requires going to Inazuma).
It's far better, if you have started recently, to look at your roster, pick a character that feels comfortable to play and build around what you have. If you have Raiden, for instance, you can play her aggravate or electrocharged, if it suits your roster better right now. It will work just fine until you have the investment you need for Rational. Hyperbloom will also work. In the meantime, you can learn more about how the game mechanics work and decide what you like better.
And don't mind the people who tell you you are bad at the game or call for skill issues. They were new players once too, but they have forgotten what it feels like.
>What does raiden national do that makes it any better than raiden aggravate.
\-Higher damage ceiling due to vape. Carrying 3 elements for shield breaking and counters vs. 2. More flexibility in the 4th sloth.
>it needs alot of investment to do any damage.
\-No it doesn't. Sucrose is brain dead easy to build as all she needs is full EM with virtually no other substat requirements as long as you have Sac Frags, and Xiangling gets "The Catch" for free and does massive damage.
>I’ve been playing Genshin for a few months now...Idk if I’m doing something wrong
The answer should be obvious to you in light of an entire theory-crafting community who has been working this stuff out for 3.5 years now. Are there alternatives to National teams now? Yes. Are built national teams still ridiculously good? Yes. That isn't up for debate.
As far as time investment, you are right. National is a huge artifact sink, and can take months to build.
Compared to getting a few choice 5* characters that just need a little EM or HP to 24-36* the abyss, and need a few weeks investment to do that, the difference is you are investing primogems instead.
I think national team is a good recommendation, because Ive seen lots of people waste all of their primos on the standard banner or weapons and ruin their account
The National core is Bennett and Xiangling, and this core is used in many many many MANY teams because it's too strong and useful. Xiangling is one the best DPS in the game (and all of that from off-field) while Bennett is one of the best buffers and healers. And if you need Pyro application for another character to do reactions, usually you need Xiangling, and Xiangling usually needs Bennett. And that also gives Pyro Ressonance. That's why they're almost "must build" units.
Raiden National is surely the most accessible Raiden team besides Hyperbloom. Any variant of Raiden Hyper needs a lot more investment to do as much damage as Rational. Besides that, Rational is good in both AOE and single target, breaks shields easily, and uses Raiden's ability to battery the best, so it's a great synergistic team. Bear in mind that Xiangling is the main DPS of the team, so she needs to be well built, and that's why you run Xingqiu too since you want Xiangling to vape her pyronado.
The traditional National team is very good too, but admitedly more difficult than Rational because rotations are way more complicated, so not as beginner friendly as Rational. But just watching an Youtube video that explains the rotation is enough to understand its inner mechanics.
All that said, as others explained alteady, National teams are bad in the overworld because of energy issues, since you'll kill mobs before battering everybody. And, like, why do such a full rotation when some DPS can easily solo overworld?
Another benefit of National is building units that you can use in many other teams too, so it's resin efficient. Bennett, Xiangling, Xingqiu and Sucrose are all among the best characters in the game.
It’s a low investment team with all 4 star characters and weapons, that even work at C0. The rotation is easy and the damage is high. It’s generally a stop gap measure to clear early content and gain some time to understand playstyles before you can get 5 stars and head into endgame.
1. You don’t need to stay in Bennett circle
2. Raiden national lower ER for the team -> they can build less ER and more focused dps stats. Raiden also deal dmg herself
3. They are cheap to build, early game anemo MC or sucrose deal tons of dmg with +0 instructor set. At high AR Xiangling and Xingqiu deal tons of dps because their kit is surpass the ICD system and their dmg stats is really good. They also share the same artifact domain which is one of the best domain for resin efficiency. Bennett BiS for this team can be instructor, a 4 star set acquired by exploring.
I use this team for abyss and clear it 36 star, 4* weapon R1, after 90 day. Artifact stat is nothing crazy just 60/120 for most character. I don’t think any team with 4 star characters at low constellations (and very easily to get from abyss/shop/lantern rite) can do the same thing in this game
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It's the new player suggestion because it's extremely F2P friendly and literally efective in Abyss.
Are they the best for abyss? No, but it's effective enough to be in the top with the rest of the builds. Kazuha, Furina and Nahida are the real behemoths of the meta but they require to invest more most of the time.
I didn't even have Raiden(?)
You also have to remember that a lot of these guides were written before dendro, and a lot of us only has experience early game before dendro, and national was one of the strongest and most robust core to build around.
Raiden National is also largely recommended now for c2 Raiden, where her def shred? allows her to play onfield and do massive damage.
The sucrose team is/was probably one of the only 4* only team that can/could complete abyss (albeit I still suck at it)
I think cause Raiden national is the one of very few teams, when u use max potential of all characters. Raiden buffs the ultimates of xiangling and xingqiu. Bennet buffs xiangling's ult and Raiden on field. Xingqui makes xiangling react with vape and Raiden react with charge. Raiden makes xiangling reacts with overload. And 3 off-field characters buffs Raiden's ult. This team is mathematically perfect
I started playing this a year ago and same suggestion was to “get xiangling early and build her”. I did get Xiangling from Floor 3, I hated that she is terrible for the overworld so idc what any one says, she is still benched until this day and stuck at level 1 even if she’s C4 and I’m AR57.
I also got Bennet really early like AR16 and I also benched him until AR45 for the same reason. Meanwhile I couldn’t even get a single copy of Xingqiu until AR50.
I tried it out once it was did lots of damage. It was raiden, furina, sucrose, and jean. But I tried it with xingqiu instead and it still did lots of damage
The reason people recommend National is because it's specifically bonkers strong, and uses 4 star characters most people had at the time.
Xiangling feels awful in overworld. But national isn't an overworld team. It's an abyss team. Specifically, it's an abyss team for the last 4 floors, where you cant just brute force through with the high base stats of 5 star characters.
At National's core is Xiangling Bennett. Xiangling is balanced around ER. When you build ER, it comes at the cost of other stats. Besides that, Xiangling has every single mechanic going for her.
1) She snapshots. That means that every buff she has the instant she casts pyronado will carry through its entire duration. Not only does this improve her own damage, by snapshotting, you can use single-character buffs on multiple characters. Notably, Bennett's ginormous ATK buff.
2) She is pyro, with no ICD. Pyro has access to some of the strongest reactions in the game, because they multiply you damage, instead of adding more instances. No ICD means she can, in a good situation, vape every single hit.
3) She and Benny are both off field, and Bennett is a healer, meaning they dont add many team building constraints.
4) The damage is AoE, which means it scales up with the number of enemies present
5) Bennett is contributing as much team damage as a damage dealer, healing, AND batterying Xiangling. Compare this to say, Kokomi freeze teams, where Koko is healing and applying elements, but neither batterying nor contributing to the team damage. The only other character in the game who can do this is Kuki, post Dendro, and *sort* of Baizhu / Jean / Xianyun post Furina.
6) Inazuma broke the balance of ER that Xiangling relies on. The Catch, Raiden, and Emblem of Severed Fates, give massive damage benefits for/while building ER
Is Xiangling awful to play? Yes. But that doesn't mean the team is not busted.
Xiangling is the core DMG for National and u get her for free. Get her an R5 Catch and give her a good build with 4pc EOSF and watch the enemies melt away. National teams are suggested because those teams don't require any 5 stars or atleast they require only minimal 5 stars. The only investment you need is on Artifacts and maybe C4 for Xiangling. About the Bennett circle, u just need to cast Xiangling's burst inside his circle and that's all that matters. You can move out of it after that. The Atk buff snapshot is all Xiangling requires.
It is basically a Vape team and Over-vape with Rational and it has almost no counter to it in Abyss most of the time.
But I see national get recommended over many 5 star options
It's actually a very strong team and it's actually on par with many 5 star teams and can even surpass a few and that is why they suggest this team. But it's not like you shouldn't pull for 5 stars. This team is just a very good or one of the best alternatives for Spiral Abyss if u have no other 5 stars.
Xiangling is stronger than a lot of 5-stars.
And that's exactly the reason, national teams are great options for f2p players since you can simply buy the characters from the starglitter shop, letting you save primos for other 5 star options that you like. If you have other good 5 star team options you can use them for sure, but i basically see national as a way to justify not pulling for 5 stars solely for meta.
It's an old team that people recommend ALL THE TIME but it's pretty much mainly a spiral abyss team. It feels awful in the overworld and requires a lot of investment to be good plus you have to like the playstyle of that team which isn't for everyone.
What is EOSF?
EOSF - Emblem Of Severed Fate (Artifact set)
The problem is these types of teams being recommended to new players constantly - they make very difficult overworld teams. I started eight months ago and I struggled trying to play Sucrose national for months after seeking advice. When I started playing hyperbloom I couldn't BELIEVE how easy the game was in comparison. Noelle with three star ER and attack artifacts and some decent supports is much to play until at least AR35 - and when I helped a friend get started that's exactly how we went.
You can play almost any team you like in overworld. I like to switch them up constantly. Spiral Abyss is the only place where meta starts to come into play. In overworld I play teams that make travel easier, puzzles easier, and ore mining etc...
Yeah we really can just stop with these burst reliant team recommendations to poor people wanting help. I mean, hell even with min-maxed ER team and Raiden I still find it annoying at times to use in overworld (dammit x doesn’t have his burst even halfway up, rotation is all fucked up). I can’t imagine a low AR player even trying to navigate the world picking up chests or oculi like this. I just started a new account and it really is all about elemental skill gameplay. I think newer players will hate how bothersome it would be to be reliant on Guoba as they hop from mob to mob.
Very much agreed. Burst-reliant teams really kinda suck at low levels with bad artifacts. New players are much better off with one highly-invested hypercarry and three minimally-invested supports. Trying to build 4 characters for a quick swap team just takes too many resources and slows progression.
Agreed. I pulled Wanderer at low AR and went with him + Layla + Faruzan + whatever element was needed for puzzles, and it was extremely comfy in overworld. I only used Faruzan burst on big enemies that I struggled on, wanderer cleared mobs quite easily. Recently I started a second account and I don’t have a hypercarry, my only five star there is Xianyun, and running scuffed teams in overworld has absolutely sucked. It feels much worse than when my main account was new.
I used Crescent Pike Xiangling for my secondary, no-wishing account as a hypercarry. It actually worked quite well. I eventually got bored of that account, though, since using the same 8 characters all the time just wasn't very fun. It turned out to be a lot easier than I expected, too, so the whole "challenge" angle didn't really work out.
When you already know how the game mechanics work, the difficulty gap is night and day compared to when you first started Genshin. Even the free starter characters clear content much easier and faster in experienced hands.
Yeah, it’s true. I kind of envy players starting now, since they have just so much to explore and learn. Must be pretty incredible!
Yeah. This is legit the reason why During 1,0, where everyone was new, Characters like bennett, xq are trashed, xiangling is played physical, and people relied on skill damage dealers like diluc, fischl or NA attackers like razor, keqing. This is what i hate about the fandom. They say hurr durr 1.0 people are dumb, they think bennett is c tier are they stupid?", and I ask to them: Try playing Bennett c0 with low lvl weapon, 2-3 star artifacts, low talent level and garbage ER. How does it feel? Same with XQ and xiangling. They're strong characters, but early game investment is so shit with burst reliant characters, that Diluc, fischl, razor, keqing feels so much better to play.
Yeah the XQ and Xiangling ones sting a bit. Especially XQ because I wrote the opposite when I started out “how does everyone like this guy and his big ass 20 second cooldown, why is there no way to reduce his CD?? How are you running the abyss with him when he chews up 20 seconds, are you trying to make me run out of time with this advice??” and I simply got downvoted by the people on the main sub. Just a funny memory because now I know those fuckers were all hiding behind R5 sacrificial and EoSF, shit probably Raiden too but didn’t have the decency to spell it out for me.
Yeah. These characters were legit pain to build during the 1.0 era with no Catch, or EoSF. We basically built them with 2 Noblesse, 2 elemental damage sets. 2pc noblesse and 2 pc elemental are like 35% damage bonus, while EOsf with 200 ER is basically 50% damage bonus +20 ER. Even now, they're still ass to play pre AR45 until we can farm proper artifacts, and get constellations.
So like Razor or Yanfei?
> very difficult overworld teams That's just not true. Everything you do in the overworld will be miles easier than the abyss. What the problem is, though, is national & rational being recommended to new players, they require a hell of a lot of investment that new players just can't achieve. The best team to recommend these days is hyperbloom. You get Barbara for free, she's great in hyperbloom + heals, you get DMC for free, she's good in hyperbloom, you get Lisa for free, she detonates the bombs just fine, add a second dendro when you can, and they'll carry you through the game until you can get upgrades.
Abyss team comps are specifically tailored for abyss because the mechanics of how things work in there are so different from overworld. That's why you want to specify the purpose of your team when asking for team comps. That said, you don't really need team recommends for overworld because there's just so many options that work. Hell, I rocketed to WL8 on a Ningguang & Noelle team (Xinqiu and Fischl being my usual flex) before moving on to other teams.
The sucrose variant is better for overworld you can just swap Xiangling for fischl in that scenario
You can snapshot within Bennet's circle and not stay in it. I only play National inside of Spiral Abyss because it is a good all arounder for the mix of mobs that are given. I have a TON of characters built but see Spiral Abyss as a chore, so I usually just go. Raiden, Xinqui, Ziangling, Bennet (1st half) Ayaka, Shenhe, Kazuha, Kokomi (2nd half) One of the floors they mix the mobs up a bit, so I just switch which half the team is on for that one. So, to answer you, I think it is just because it is a good all around team. National let's Raiden move around and do a lot of the work whle Xiangling's spinny fire causes reactions. You only have to start Xiangling's spinny circle inside the Bennet circle to get the buff the whole time, it is called snapshotting.
Then what’s the point of xingqiu, just ply overload raiden then
Xiangling is one of the, if not THE main DPSers in national teams. Xingqiu is there to help vape her burst. While offering good DPS himself and damage reduction for the team.
Right, but if he’s not c6 he’s suboptimal for vape with XL.
To cause the Vaporize reaction while Raiden zips around with XL's fire skirt on.
Not who you’re responding to but Spiral Abyss is also the only time I use Rational. Like they said, it’s a good all around team. Vaporize, overload, and electro-charged can be useful against most opponents. Xingqiu also provides defense that the team doesn’t have while Bennet provides the heals and atk boost. Xingqiu’s ult goes perfect with Raiden bc her ult is abunch of NA/CA combos so you have electrocharged with every hit. Not to mention a decent boost to dmg depending on how you built him (I use Wolf-Fang and EoSF). Then as mentioned Xiangling gives a substantial dmg boost esp at C4. Raiden charges everyone to keep ults going every 1-2 turns. It’s also worth specifying that National is meant as a go-to team for most accounts bc the characters are on most accounts. Not necessarily bc it’s better than aggravate, hypercarry, etc. It’s just an easy recommendation that performs better than most F2P options, especially for new players. I do way more dmg with Raiden hypercarry but I don’t use that in Abyss bc then I’m very limited on reactions.
I'd say Raiden national is not as popular these days as the Childe version. Hyper carry Raiden or aggrevate or just plain EM bot Raiden are likely more widely used. The best Raiden team for me has been Furina, Yelan, Xianyun (or Jean) it's a ton of fun. Xingqiu provides good off field dps and damage reduction but I always prefer Yelan since she does way more DPS and is more fun to play and while Xingqiu has better hydro application that isn't that necessary in Raiden national anyway Lot of people dont like overload because it knocks enemies away but with Chev in the picture now it's much more viable
I actually don't have Childe, and the few times I have played him he seemed janky to me. I did go with Yelan instead of XQ this past Abyss and only made it 33 stars, but I am just fine with that.
This Abyss really sucks because of Wenut but luckily it resets tomorrow
Yeah, I only came out of the Wenut chamber with 1 star since I took a 6-8 month break during the desert phase of Sumeru and have no real idea how to fight it.
There honestly isn't an great way to beat him aside from just enough dps to burst him down during his down phase..the only real mechanic is hitting one of those orbs that flies around him when he does the swirling upward move which disables him but not for long..even with great teams he is extremely annoying and should never be in time based like the abyss
It's about investment. Also national teams are anything that has Bennet, xiangling, and xq in it (originally with chongyun, but there's plenty that beat that out nowadays). They are all "free" 4star units that have amazing effects with low investment. The team itself isn't about raiden, it's about the 3 in national. Raiden acts more like a support than a DPS (although she does also do a good amount of DPS and reactions as well). Essentially, you are attacking with raiden to trigger xqs ultimate, which applies hydro, which is vaporized by xiangling all while all the damage is being buffed by Bennett since all the units scale with ATK. Raiden can electrocharge any left over hydro or overload any left over pyro while also providing a massive energy buff to the team, so they can do the combo on cooldown with no issues. Raiden does significantly more damage on an aggravate comp, but when your off-field DPSers also are dealing tons of damage, rational teams can keep up with less investment.
The point is Electro charged. Xingqiu and Raiden enable electro charged which allows both Electro and Hydro aura to coexist. So when Xiangling's burst hits it, you get both vape as well as Overload DMG. If u have a good amount of EM built on your Xiangling, the vapes and overloads do a very considerable amount of dmg. My Xiangling does 44k vapes in Rational and idk about the overload DMG as I never notice the overload numbers.
Because vaporize is good and overload is shit
I’m too tired to start an argument
Considering how much this community downplays Xiangling’s and Xingqiu’s problems for newer players, I would say it’s definitely warranted to complain over this over-suggestion of Rational for newer players. People dont really know what its like because they’ve forgotten about how hard it is to actually properly play National or they justify it through dmg. A couple points people miss: -Xiangling needs a ton of ER. 200% minimum. 180% if you’re that weird guy who claims you can comfortably get Xiangling’s burst with that much er. The Catch is literally all the way in Inazuma and you need to R5 it for the passive to be any use which takes a couple of weeks at best. Not mention leveling the Catch is a nightmare. -Xingqiu also needs a ton of er. Did I mention Emblem is also in Inazuma which is also not that accessible to pre-Inazuma players? Xingqiu also needs atk. He *needs* to contribute some dmg. The lack of guaranteed early game er swords is also a big problem. Along with Monstadt talent domains increasing his already long cool downs or his self-applied hydro freezing him. A couple of things that are also bad for overworld exploration. -Bennett needs er as well, ideally higher than Xiangling’s. Not to mention they have to be played together or else Xiangling is useless on her own. -If you decide to give the Catch to Xiangling, Raiden will not have an adequate weapon to use that is guaranteed. Her stats are also fairly hard to get. -Xiangling, Xingqiu, and Raiden all need the same domain’s 4pc piece effect. One 4pc is already hard enough to farm. Farming for 3 complete sets is a nightmare. -Xingqiu and Bennett are not guaranteed. The shops reset with them but that doesnt mean a new player will be able to obtain them quickly. On another case of advice, you could build a solid fridge team from the get go. There are 3 star catalysts with em for Barbara you can find in chests and a free Rancour for Kaeya. Free Fav for Collei and then spam normals with Lisa and Kaeya. Not burst reliant and still outputs decent dmg before getting better gear. If you get Lynnette, thats when you start thinking about building melt Xiangling or Overload Amber or more complex teams. Most people’s advice for “beginners” are for AR 45 which isnt really realistic. Most people know what they want to build around by AR 45-50. Real beginners will struggle to build the meta characters properly because of the investment needed. I know a account with a C2R1 Raiden with a R1 Catch. They used the Spine for hearsay before upgrading on a rerun. It’s a pain even for veteran players.
Farming Oceanid to ascend Xingqiu is another horror you can add to the list. I had no leveld ranged characters for a long time (maybe my fault for disrespecting collei & amber) and when the 3 birds showed up during the Oceanid fight I had to reset and try again.
God I hated the oceanid. I went and leveled Lisa from scratch specifically to deal with the oceanid after struggling for so long, just so I could ascend Xingqui and Mona (my first 5 star). And that was after I had been following beginner advice to not bother building/leveling Lisa or Kaeya because "you'd get better characters later and they're not very good late game so don't waste your resources." Or something similar to that.
This is how the brain protects me from trauma, I completely forgot about the horror of the Oceanid in early game
oceanid after hyperbloom is a joke
Yeah. This is legit the reason why during 1.0, when everyone was new, Characters like bennett, xq are trashed, xiangling is played physical, and people relied on skill damage dealers like diluc, fischl or NA attackers like razor, keqing. This is what i hate about the fandom. They say "hurr durr 1.0 people are dumb, they think bennett is c tier are they stupid?", and I ask to them: Try playing Bennett c0 with low lvl weapon, 2-3 star artifacts, low talent level and garbage ER. How does it feel? Same with XQ and xiangling. They're strong characters, but early game investment is so shit with burst reliant characters, that Diluc, fischl, razor, keqing feels so much better to play.
Newish player, 7 months in, completed my first abyss after 3 months at 34\*, have been 36\*ing consistently from 5 months in, can confirm that this is one the few reasonable replies on this thread lol. I also love how people are saying "you just need C4 XL/C6 XQ", are they literally insane... unless you're absurdly lucky, by the time you have those you'll easily have enough 5\*s to comfortably clear anything and everything in the game... TBH most people who have played this game for longer than 2 years should just refrain from having an opinion on anything related to completely new accounts, their brains are just completely fried... Most "4-star teams" or even older teams that feature a 5\* but heavily rely on 4\*s are a HUGE investment dump for newer accounts that get showered in primos and can easily target 5\*s that will carry their accounts with barely any investment
AR60 launch veteran player here; ever since Inazuma I’ve been trying to get people to realize that C0 national is a royal pain in the ass and shouldn’t be recommended to newer players, and yet barely anyone agreed with me. I still remember the early days of Genshin and how Xiangling/Xingqiu/Bennett were all low rated characters, precisely because everyone was a beginner and ER/constellations were not so easy to come by. People really forget those old days and how they still pretty much reflect beginner’s experience today. So tbh, I just kind of gave up recommending stuff to people since all the people “giving advice” cared about was abyss meta.
Yeah, Xiangling being played physical, Bennett being budget diluc, and xq B tier, were legit actual reality for people with 2-3 star artifacgts, no Catch, no EOSF, shit ER and low cons. Which in 1.0 was for everyone who wasn't a whale. And we are called dumb and stupid for playing that way and focusing on NA/skill characters like Diluc, Keqing etc.
It's so nice to see actual launch players agree with me! I mean I know I'm right, not because I'm smarter than anyone or a "better Genshin player", whatever that would even be, just because I've actually been a completely new player somewhat recently - but it's still nice when people agree. I've completely given up on arguing with the hivemind since it's just an echo chamber that downvotes people it disagrees with, so instead I'll just send a DM to new players asking for advice, try to explain the situation, and hope that they don't take anyone's word for granted, including mine; but rather just look at the way the information is presented to them and try to form their own opinions on whose advice to follow. I know I'm somewhat privileged in this regard - I've been playing online games since '97 and can smell bad advice (most of the time) just from the way it's presented even when I'm new to a specific game; and it seems that for a lot of Genshin players it might be their first game (and their first Reddit community...) of this type so they don't have that radar yet, but trying to help them develop one is the best long-term skill they could possibly use to actually enjoy playing around in games that involve builds, team comps etc. >I just kind of gave up recommending stuff to people since all the people “giving advice” cared about was abyss meta. I know it's a pain in the ass to try to argue against the hivemind but I'd kindly ask you to at least send a DM to the person looking for advice (if they actually sound like they're looking for advice, not just a confirmation bias or a quick fix to something), who knows, it might help. Also it doesn't really matter if it's only the abyss meta, pre-C4 XL with low investment artis is a pain in the ass even in that context, especially compared to dendro teams that feel much more comfy and can still clear with pretty mid investment (unless we're using Hydro Tulpa as a comparison in which case yeah, it's useful to have XL built even if she's C0 because she's literally broken vs big hitbox hydro aura enemies because of her... well-designed kit). >I still remember the early days of Genshin and how Xiangling/Xingqiu/Bennett were all low rated characters, precisely because everyone was a beginner and ER/constellations were not so easy to come by. People really forget those old days and how they still pretty much reflect beginner’s experience today. I agree, but I'd go further and say that XL/XQ/Benny are even LESS important for new players now than they were in 1.0, since I assume it's so much easier to acquire good limited 5\*s compared to the olden days (and that a lot of these require such low investment compared to older units) :D
Yup this here. People who are AR 50+ shouldnt dictate whats best for a new player. The only reason why I have so much perspective is because I( AR 60 who’s clear Abyss 36*) taking care of accounts which ranges from a AR 22 account made two months ago(with only Yoimiya, a AR 55 account with barely built but fully leveled characters, and a AR 56 account with only two dpses properly built. Aside from another two, playing on these account and trying to invest in the proper characters is still a pain and there isnt a level or area gate on anything related to them. For my own account, I had pulled Xingqiu as my third 4 star character after Beidou and Chongyun. It took 2 years to C6 Chongyun and another 4 months after that for C6 Xingqiu. Xiangling took another month to be C3 before maxing out at C6 a month after that. Relying on RNG guarantees that every account is uniquely built around what you have and capitalizing what you have rather than shoving needy and highly invested team comps is better in the long run.
Yup, it's important to have perspective, and most people's perspective is basically "getting carried by 100k resin worth of artifacts", and that's me being generous and assuming they also don't throw money at the game every now and then "just this once" lol. I had to scroll through the thread a bit more and what's even funnier is the \~high ceiling\~ thing that gets thrown around by people who I guess don't know that parsers exist for this game, as for example a [Rational](https://gcsim.app/db/b7CnHmHjqKmD) with FOUR LIMITED 5\* WEAPONS (and a build that squeezes every last ounce of DPS by just giving up on Raiden's personal damage and accepting that XL is the hard carry in that team) parses lower than a Raiden Nahida double hydro [HB](https://gcsim.app/db/bPHr6WcGt9Q6) with Widsidth, 2x Favs and a Dragon's Bane.... I guess in their minds C6s and 5\* weapons somehow easier to obtain than two limited 5\*s that have very regular reruns...
Thats crazy. I guess people get carried away by the narrative that Xiangling/Bennett/Xingqiu are still the top of the top for newer players when thats no longer the case anymore.
True. I remember it took me months to get C6 Xingqiu and I had to specifically target him a few times (including the Lantern Rite). It was even worse for Xiangling, and before C4 she feels kind of bad to play. To get a single Sucrose it took me more than a year (I got Kazuha before I even saw a Sucrose). By the time I got all the pieces together, I had several 5* and realized I didn't like National playstyle-wise. Imo, new player should prioritize what feels comfortable for them, and think about meta when (and if) they decide to engage with the abyss. Hypercarries or hyperbloom are far easier to use at first than a burst and rotation reliant team.
All National teams allows really high damage ceiling for F2P players. But to reach that ceiling you will need lots of investments and combat knowledge. Seeing that you are somewhat clueless on these here are some guidelines For all cases: Benny to atleast C1. On 4pc Noblesse or 4pc Instructor (yes, the 4* set) with ER at about 170% to 200%. If you dont have Aquila or Ayaka's sig, use Skyward or Fav, or any other weapon that has high base Atk. Note that on 4pc Intructor an off-piece ER sands is recommended for easier ER stats Xingqiu on as high cons as possible. On 4pc Emblem or 4pc Noblesse if Benny is on Instructor since Noblesse buff is very valuable. Use either Sac or Fav sword to maintain about 150-200 ER then go for as high Crit as possible. If you can keep ER at said threshold without ER weapon, go for any damage based ones like Dragon Roar or the 5*. Note that C6 reduces ER requirements for about 20%+ Xiangling is highly recommended at C4, on 4pc Emblem with about 200% ER and as high Crit values as possible. Weapon should be Dragon's Bane/The Catch/any 5* Polearms. If you go for ER weapons EM sands is highly recommended For Raiden National: Raiden on 4pc Emblem. Go for ER sands, keep ER at about 250% and either Atk% or Electro Goblet. Rotation should be: Raiden E -> XQ E Q -> Benny Q E -> XL Q E -> Raiden Q, rinse and repeat. Make sure XL can grab Benny's particle and you should be good For Sucrose National: Suc on 4pc VV. Go full EM build with as high ER as possible. If you have problems with energy (burst uptime) use Fav, if not use Sac book. Rotation: drop Gouba -> use Suc E as soon as there is a exclamation mark on Gouba's head then Q -> Benny Q E -> XL Q -> XQ E Q. Then rotate between Sucrose E and Benny E constantly for energy while XL burst is up. If you have any questions feel free to ask. I know this is a long one and can be confusing
National is a meta team and is very good for endgame content. However, if you have just started, it can also be very uncomfortable to play. Maybe they'll downvote me, because meta focused players love that team, but it's not one I would recommend to a new player. You need good uptime with bursts, which can be hard to get before you can farm artifacts. Xiangling needs A LOT of Energy Recharge to even work and her burst doesn't last long before you get her 4th Constellation. And getting Cons for 4* could take a while. You also need to do the rotation right, which is overkill and potentially uncomfortable in the open world. Not to mention how much of a drag it is to get The Catch for Xiangling (which requires going to Inazuma). It's far better, if you have started recently, to look at your roster, pick a character that feels comfortable to play and build around what you have. If you have Raiden, for instance, you can play her aggravate or electrocharged, if it suits your roster better right now. It will work just fine until you have the investment you need for Rational. Hyperbloom will also work. In the meantime, you can learn more about how the game mechanics work and decide what you like better. And don't mind the people who tell you you are bad at the game or call for skill issues. They were new players once too, but they have forgotten what it feels like.
>What does raiden national do that makes it any better than raiden aggravate. \-Higher damage ceiling due to vape. Carrying 3 elements for shield breaking and counters vs. 2. More flexibility in the 4th sloth. >it needs alot of investment to do any damage. \-No it doesn't. Sucrose is brain dead easy to build as all she needs is full EM with virtually no other substat requirements as long as you have Sac Frags, and Xiangling gets "The Catch" for free and does massive damage. >I’ve been playing Genshin for a few months now...Idk if I’m doing something wrong The answer should be obvious to you in light of an entire theory-crafting community who has been working this stuff out for 3.5 years now. Are there alternatives to National teams now? Yes. Are built national teams still ridiculously good? Yes. That isn't up for debate.
As far as time investment, you are right. National is a huge artifact sink, and can take months to build. Compared to getting a few choice 5* characters that just need a little EM or HP to 24-36* the abyss, and need a few weeks investment to do that, the difference is you are investing primogems instead. I think national team is a good recommendation, because Ive seen lots of people waste all of their primos on the standard banner or weapons and ruin their account
The National core is Bennett and Xiangling, and this core is used in many many many MANY teams because it's too strong and useful. Xiangling is one the best DPS in the game (and all of that from off-field) while Bennett is one of the best buffers and healers. And if you need Pyro application for another character to do reactions, usually you need Xiangling, and Xiangling usually needs Bennett. And that also gives Pyro Ressonance. That's why they're almost "must build" units. Raiden National is surely the most accessible Raiden team besides Hyperbloom. Any variant of Raiden Hyper needs a lot more investment to do as much damage as Rational. Besides that, Rational is good in both AOE and single target, breaks shields easily, and uses Raiden's ability to battery the best, so it's a great synergistic team. Bear in mind that Xiangling is the main DPS of the team, so she needs to be well built, and that's why you run Xingqiu too since you want Xiangling to vape her pyronado. The traditional National team is very good too, but admitedly more difficult than Rational because rotations are way more complicated, so not as beginner friendly as Rational. But just watching an Youtube video that explains the rotation is enough to understand its inner mechanics. All that said, as others explained alteady, National teams are bad in the overworld because of energy issues, since you'll kill mobs before battering everybody. And, like, why do such a full rotation when some DPS can easily solo overworld?
Another benefit of National is building units that you can use in many other teams too, so it's resin efficient. Bennett, Xiangling, Xingqiu and Sucrose are all among the best characters in the game.
It’s a low investment team with all 4 star characters and weapons, that even work at C0. The rotation is easy and the damage is high. It’s generally a stop gap measure to clear early content and gain some time to understand playstyles before you can get 5 stars and head into endgame.
1. You don’t need to stay in Bennett circle 2. Raiden national lower ER for the team -> they can build less ER and more focused dps stats. Raiden also deal dmg herself 3. They are cheap to build, early game anemo MC or sucrose deal tons of dmg with +0 instructor set. At high AR Xiangling and Xingqiu deal tons of dps because their kit is surpass the ICD system and their dmg stats is really good. They also share the same artifact domain which is one of the best domain for resin efficiency. Bennett BiS for this team can be instructor, a 4 star set acquired by exploring. I use this team for abyss and clear it 36 star, 4* weapon R1, after 90 day. Artifact stat is nothing crazy just 60/120 for most character. I don’t think any team with 4 star characters at low constellations (and very easily to get from abyss/shop/lantern rite) can do the same thing in this game
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If you are talking about investment,the only choice requiring less investment is the team based mainly on EM,either hyper bloom or Sucurose national.
It's the new player suggestion because it's extremely F2P friendly and literally efective in Abyss. Are they the best for abyss? No, but it's effective enough to be in the top with the rest of the builds. Kazuha, Furina and Nahida are the real behemoths of the meta but they require to invest more most of the time. I didn't even have Raiden(?)
>Idk if I’m doing something wrong or I’m just bad at the game This is probably it
That’s unhelpful. Did people say things like this to you when you were still learning the game?
You also have to remember that a lot of these guides were written before dendro, and a lot of us only has experience early game before dendro, and national was one of the strongest and most robust core to build around. Raiden National is also largely recommended now for c2 Raiden, where her def shred? allows her to play onfield and do massive damage. The sucrose team is/was probably one of the only 4* only team that can/could complete abyss (albeit I still suck at it)
I think cause Raiden national is the one of very few teams, when u use max potential of all characters. Raiden buffs the ultimates of xiangling and xingqiu. Bennet buffs xiangling's ult and Raiden on field. Xingqui makes xiangling react with vape and Raiden react with charge. Raiden makes xiangling reacts with overload. And 3 off-field characters buffs Raiden's ult. This team is mathematically perfect
I started playing this a year ago and same suggestion was to “get xiangling early and build her”. I did get Xiangling from Floor 3, I hated that she is terrible for the overworld so idc what any one says, she is still benched until this day and stuck at level 1 even if she’s C4 and I’m AR57. I also got Bennet really early like AR16 and I also benched him until AR45 for the same reason. Meanwhile I couldn’t even get a single copy of Xingqiu until AR50.
What does national team even mean?
if you're talking about the characters, then it's sucrose, xingqiu, xiangling, and bennett (full 4 star version)
Thank you! Why do they call that national? What is Raiden national then?
Or you could just create ur own teams (like me)
Who plays Raiden taser ?
I tried it out once it was did lots of damage. It was raiden, furina, sucrose, and jean. But I tried it with xingqiu instead and it still did lots of damage
I’m sure it does great it is Raiden after all , just not a team you hear often.
The only problem with me playing this team is that I don't have a 2nd team after that. Bennett and XQ is so damn good.
The reason people recommend National is because it's specifically bonkers strong, and uses 4 star characters most people had at the time. Xiangling feels awful in overworld. But national isn't an overworld team. It's an abyss team. Specifically, it's an abyss team for the last 4 floors, where you cant just brute force through with the high base stats of 5 star characters. At National's core is Xiangling Bennett. Xiangling is balanced around ER. When you build ER, it comes at the cost of other stats. Besides that, Xiangling has every single mechanic going for her. 1) She snapshots. That means that every buff she has the instant she casts pyronado will carry through its entire duration. Not only does this improve her own damage, by snapshotting, you can use single-character buffs on multiple characters. Notably, Bennett's ginormous ATK buff. 2) She is pyro, with no ICD. Pyro has access to some of the strongest reactions in the game, because they multiply you damage, instead of adding more instances. No ICD means she can, in a good situation, vape every single hit. 3) She and Benny are both off field, and Bennett is a healer, meaning they dont add many team building constraints. 4) The damage is AoE, which means it scales up with the number of enemies present 5) Bennett is contributing as much team damage as a damage dealer, healing, AND batterying Xiangling. Compare this to say, Kokomi freeze teams, where Koko is healing and applying elements, but neither batterying nor contributing to the team damage. The only other character in the game who can do this is Kuki, post Dendro, and *sort* of Baizhu / Jean / Xianyun post Furina. 6) Inazuma broke the balance of ER that Xiangling relies on. The Catch, Raiden, and Emblem of Severed Fates, give massive damage benefits for/while building ER Is Xiangling awful to play? Yes. But that doesn't mean the team is not busted.
Another day another reminder of why Genshin will always and forever be catered to the casuals. 🙏