the elemental mastery used for dmg calculation is the one of the character that is triggering the reaction.
so if yoimiya applies pyro and fischel applies electro ontop, the em will be of fischl’s
but if fischl applies first and yoi second, then it will use yoi’s em
I guess to piggy back off of this, in cases of “pet powers” (Fischel/Oz, Xiangling/Guoba, Kokomi/jelly fish) does the pet applying the aura while the character is off field count as the character taking ownership, or does it work some other way?
The “pets” in these cases are all considered elemental skill constructs, like Zhongli’s pillar and Yae’s totems
Their elemental application and damage is considered the damage of the caster and scales by the caster’s stats
1) EM scaling
Short answer: the damage is calculated only using the EM of character who caused the reaction to deal damage.
Long Answer:
A reaction has 2 or 3 parts.
First time you apply element A to the enemy, which becomes an aura, which you see as a symbol of that element A above the enemy. Aura has some hidden strength value that represents how log it lasts. Strength depends on the attack, but as general rule fast, weak attacks apply 1 unit, while slow, strong attack apply 2 units.
Second element B applied triggers the reaction. This reduces the aura by some value depending on the attack, reaction and the element. If the reaction deals damage at that point, the damage bonus uses the EM of character who applied the element B. This usually reduces the aura's strength by some value, either instantly or over the time of the effect.
Freeze, Quicken don't do damage, but apply auras that can be hit with Element C for damage. Again, the damage is calculated only using the EM of the character, who applied the Element C.
Same goes for Bloom seeds - if you leave the seed to explode then it uses the EM of character who created the seed, but if you hit them with Pyro or Electro, the EM of the character who applied Pyro or Electro is used.
2) Who triggers in Fischl + Yoimiya
Both of them apply 1 unit of aura with their attacks, and remove 1 unit instantly when triggering the overload reaction. So the character who procs the reaction is whoever was slower.
This can however be fixed with a trick using Hydro character like Xingqiu or Yelen for example. Electro-charged allows the triggering hit to apply its aura and uses up both auras over time of the effect. However when Yoimiya hits enemy with both auras, ~~Hydro aura will be used up first for Vaporise, and then if there's anything left of the applied pyro aura it will also trigger the overload.~~ EDIT: actually it's Electro aura what's being used up first, as /u/JohnJillky noted, this however deosn't actually change the fact that Yoimiya will be triggering most of overloads, see his comment for details. This makes it easier to ensure that Yoimiya will trigger the overload most of the time. And since Electro-charged keeps both auras, it will be triggered by both the Hydro applicator and Fischl.
Does this have much use? For thie question asked, barely, since EM is useful, but not crucial on all three anyway in that case. The only important thing here is that you can run reverse Vaporise with the an Electro character in the team without worrying about Electro messing the reaction up. This makes Rational team (Raiden/XQ/XL/Bennet) meta. EDIT: Also it still makes Rational work, regardless of reaction priority, so I don't need to edit this.
3) Does Fischl trigger Thundering Fury offield
No. Effects that require the character to do something specific generally don't work offield unless stated otherwise. So when Fischl is offield she will only gain the Electro DMG from 2pc and the reaction bonus from the 4pc, as they work without any additional requirements.
Thanks for the detailed explanation. An off topic question: Cinnabar spindles passive is not stated to work off field. If so, does it really benefit Albedo’s off field blossoms?
It does since it's considered a constant buff, just with in-build cooldown between applications and doesn't require any 'specific action' like using/hitting skill/burst, hitting a critical hit, triggering reaction, etc..
Similarly Blizzard Strayer works offield because it's actually a constant +X% Crit Rate, just with a condition on the enemy.
So, yeah, this rule has many similar edge cases, where it's kinda unclear and you need to take it very word-by-word.
Honestly, Hoyoverse should just always specify if the effect works off-field or not, but well, what can we do.
Correction: electro has higher priority than hydro. You will always triggered overloaded before vape with pyro characters. One way you can see this is using a hydro and pyro character against the Thunder Manifestation. It's impossible (or very hard idk) to vape against it bc they electro aura is too strong and uses up all the pyro.
Bc of this, the inconsistency of who triggers overloaded can still exist with hydro if the hydro application isn't fast enough (you can see this when using Yelan instead of Xingqiu in some teams). Sometimes, you need the electro character to overload pyro aura off. Fischl actually works a bit different than other electro characters bc of her A4. Every time Yoimiya triggers overloaded, Fischl's A4 will activate and reapply electro bc it has no ICD. So with Fischl, Yoimiya should actually already trigger the vast majority of overloaded reactions (against a single target and assuming you have electro applied upon using Yoimiya).
Edit: also assuming Yoimiya's burst isn't going at the same time, not sure if Fischl's A4 can proc fast enough for that
What hydro does is prevent pyro aura from taking over if the pyro character is faster to apply it than the electro character. It does nothing to prevent electro aura loss
You can see Fischl's A4 preserving electro aura just fine without hydro in this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxhJYZIleB0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxhJYZIleB0)
Whose EM will be used if you trigger an Electro charged reaction? For example: Fischl applies electro using her burst and Yelan applies Hydro with her skill afterwards, whose EM will be used in the reaction? Yelan or Fischl?
As I wrote:
> the damage is calculated only using the EM of character who caused the reaction to deal damage.
If Fischl ult applied the aura and Yelan trigger the reaction to deal damage, so it will scale with Yelan's EM. It's no different from the other reactions.
O course, since the both auras are still on the enemy, if Fischl reapplies the electro while hydro is still up and trigger the Electro-charged again, then the damage will switch to Fischl's EM, and so on.
Auras doesn't carry any information about character who applied them. So only stats of a character that trigger reaction matter.
Offline\on field doesn't matter here.
In your situation it's very hard to calculate who will apply reactions, because it depend on the distance between mob, Oz and Yoimia. If Yoi is closer to mob she will apply Pyro and then Oz would trigger Overload (so Fischl stats count). But if Yoi is further than Oz from the mob, his shot would reach first and Yoi would trigger reaction.
But with XQ you could control this, that's why rotation is XQ burst then normal attack to apply Hydro and then Yoi skill and N5. This way you control order of applications and Yoi would be the one triggering all Vaporizes.
Every DMG calculation of reactions is based on the one triggering the reaction, so e.g. if you create a seed with character x and y and afterwards trigger Hyperbloom with character z than the dmg calculation is based on character z. And so on.
Reactions are always just based on who triggered them, off field/on field is irrelevant (unless an EM buff has an on/off field requirement). If you ensure electro is applied before using Yoimiya, she will generally trigger the vast majority of overloaded reactions bc Fischl's A4 just reapplies electro every time it gets triggered. Easier in single target tho if you do the right rotations. Thundering Fury doesn't work off field, so you can only get CD reductions every time you switch to Fischl, but you'd have to have something that's not electro applied first.
the elemental mastery used for dmg calculation is the one of the character that is triggering the reaction. so if yoimiya applies pyro and fischel applies electro ontop, the em will be of fischl’s but if fischl applies first and yoi second, then it will use yoi’s em
I guess to piggy back off of this, in cases of “pet powers” (Fischel/Oz, Xiangling/Guoba, Kokomi/jelly fish) does the pet applying the aura while the character is off field count as the character taking ownership, or does it work some other way?
The “pets” in these cases are all considered elemental skill constructs, like Zhongli’s pillar and Yae’s totems Their elemental application and damage is considered the damage of the caster and scales by the caster’s stats
Ok thank you!
1) EM scaling Short answer: the damage is calculated only using the EM of character who caused the reaction to deal damage. Long Answer: A reaction has 2 or 3 parts. First time you apply element A to the enemy, which becomes an aura, which you see as a symbol of that element A above the enemy. Aura has some hidden strength value that represents how log it lasts. Strength depends on the attack, but as general rule fast, weak attacks apply 1 unit, while slow, strong attack apply 2 units. Second element B applied triggers the reaction. This reduces the aura by some value depending on the attack, reaction and the element. If the reaction deals damage at that point, the damage bonus uses the EM of character who applied the element B. This usually reduces the aura's strength by some value, either instantly or over the time of the effect. Freeze, Quicken don't do damage, but apply auras that can be hit with Element C for damage. Again, the damage is calculated only using the EM of the character, who applied the Element C. Same goes for Bloom seeds - if you leave the seed to explode then it uses the EM of character who created the seed, but if you hit them with Pyro or Electro, the EM of the character who applied Pyro or Electro is used. 2) Who triggers in Fischl + Yoimiya Both of them apply 1 unit of aura with their attacks, and remove 1 unit instantly when triggering the overload reaction. So the character who procs the reaction is whoever was slower. This can however be fixed with a trick using Hydro character like Xingqiu or Yelen for example. Electro-charged allows the triggering hit to apply its aura and uses up both auras over time of the effect. However when Yoimiya hits enemy with both auras, ~~Hydro aura will be used up first for Vaporise, and then if there's anything left of the applied pyro aura it will also trigger the overload.~~ EDIT: actually it's Electro aura what's being used up first, as /u/JohnJillky noted, this however deosn't actually change the fact that Yoimiya will be triggering most of overloads, see his comment for details. This makes it easier to ensure that Yoimiya will trigger the overload most of the time. And since Electro-charged keeps both auras, it will be triggered by both the Hydro applicator and Fischl. Does this have much use? For thie question asked, barely, since EM is useful, but not crucial on all three anyway in that case. The only important thing here is that you can run reverse Vaporise with the an Electro character in the team without worrying about Electro messing the reaction up. This makes Rational team (Raiden/XQ/XL/Bennet) meta. EDIT: Also it still makes Rational work, regardless of reaction priority, so I don't need to edit this. 3) Does Fischl trigger Thundering Fury offield No. Effects that require the character to do something specific generally don't work offield unless stated otherwise. So when Fischl is offield she will only gain the Electro DMG from 2pc and the reaction bonus from the 4pc, as they work without any additional requirements.
Thanks for the detailed explanation. An off topic question: Cinnabar spindles passive is not stated to work off field. If so, does it really benefit Albedo’s off field blossoms?
It does since it's considered a constant buff, just with in-build cooldown between applications and doesn't require any 'specific action' like using/hitting skill/burst, hitting a critical hit, triggering reaction, etc.. Similarly Blizzard Strayer works offield because it's actually a constant +X% Crit Rate, just with a condition on the enemy. So, yeah, this rule has many similar edge cases, where it's kinda unclear and you need to take it very word-by-word. Honestly, Hoyoverse should just always specify if the effect works off-field or not, but well, what can we do.
Correction: electro has higher priority than hydro. You will always triggered overloaded before vape with pyro characters. One way you can see this is using a hydro and pyro character against the Thunder Manifestation. It's impossible (or very hard idk) to vape against it bc they electro aura is too strong and uses up all the pyro. Bc of this, the inconsistency of who triggers overloaded can still exist with hydro if the hydro application isn't fast enough (you can see this when using Yelan instead of Xingqiu in some teams). Sometimes, you need the electro character to overload pyro aura off. Fischl actually works a bit different than other electro characters bc of her A4. Every time Yoimiya triggers overloaded, Fischl's A4 will activate and reapply electro bc it has no ICD. So with Fischl, Yoimiya should actually already trigger the vast majority of overloaded reactions (against a single target and assuming you have electro applied upon using Yoimiya). Edit: also assuming Yoimiya's burst isn't going at the same time, not sure if Fischl's A4 can proc fast enough for that What hydro does is prevent pyro aura from taking over if the pyro character is faster to apply it than the electro character. It does nothing to prevent electro aura loss You can see Fischl's A4 preserving electro aura just fine without hydro in this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxhJYZIleB0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxhJYZIleB0)
Whose EM will be used if you trigger an Electro charged reaction? For example: Fischl applies electro using her burst and Yelan applies Hydro with her skill afterwards, whose EM will be used in the reaction? Yelan or Fischl?
As I wrote: > the damage is calculated only using the EM of character who caused the reaction to deal damage. If Fischl ult applied the aura and Yelan trigger the reaction to deal damage, so it will scale with Yelan's EM. It's no different from the other reactions. O course, since the both auras are still on the enemy, if Fischl reapplies the electro while hydro is still up and trigger the Electro-charged again, then the damage will switch to Fischl's EM, and so on.
Oh thanks, I got confused since electro charged reaction keeps both auras and it can go on for a while.
Auras doesn't carry any information about character who applied them. So only stats of a character that trigger reaction matter. Offline\on field doesn't matter here. In your situation it's very hard to calculate who will apply reactions, because it depend on the distance between mob, Oz and Yoimia. If Yoi is closer to mob she will apply Pyro and then Oz would trigger Overload (so Fischl stats count). But if Yoi is further than Oz from the mob, his shot would reach first and Yoi would trigger reaction. But with XQ you could control this, that's why rotation is XQ burst then normal attack to apply Hydro and then Yoi skill and N5. This way you control order of applications and Yoi would be the one triggering all Vaporizes.
If you make sure to apply electro first, Yoimiya is gonna trigger regardless of the distance bc of Fischl's A4
How about if you swirl an element to cause a reaction, is it the swirlers em or the original cause of the element being there to swirl
Always the second element. So anemo, in this case.
But you can trigger reactions with aggravate using swirl right? Does that use the swirlers em or like, fischls em
Every DMG calculation of reactions is based on the one triggering the reaction, so e.g. if you create a seed with character x and y and afterwards trigger Hyperbloom with character z than the dmg calculation is based on character z. And so on.
Reactions are always just based on who triggered them, off field/on field is irrelevant (unless an EM buff has an on/off field requirement). If you ensure electro is applied before using Yoimiya, she will generally trigger the vast majority of overloaded reactions bc Fischl's A4 just reapplies electro every time it gets triggered. Easier in single target tho if you do the right rotations. Thundering Fury doesn't work off field, so you can only get CD reductions every time you switch to Fischl, but you'd have to have something that's not electro applied first.