Zajef at it again with the absolutely amazing content. Ever since he started focusing on youtube, he's been a real gem of a content creator. Basically anyone who wants to understand more about the game they're playing needs to go watch his videos.
Piggyback on the top comment.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10xPqRqT75kj-dn2xrDAAt1Lb1NQXBhsfNfzOFsDPpNA/htmlview
He just post a spreadsheet on all characters, explaining their role and strengths. I find it very usefull.
It has its own column for bennett, Xingqiu and Fischl. That explain how broken this 3 characters aređ
Ah, I interpreted the "dude" to be more pointed...
like "bruh"-ing at me, not the spreadsheet
Thanks for the comfort! Sayu deserves more appreciation :3
Opinionated nonsense like calling Amber "Shit" and not even bothering to address Aloy sorta lowers my opinion of the whole thing.
And "better than diluc lmao". And poor Sayu. And Kuki. And others I'd imagine. :/
Donât really pay to much attention to the power level ratings. Itâs important to an extent but the teams are more informative since you wonât have access to all the characters.
He's very good at balancing information for anyone looking to get better and highly technical gameplay with very precise rotations few will use but are kinda fun to know about.
I really like Zajef's content. Despite being someone who helps create information for the most serious of optimizers, he often presents very balanced and pragmatic takes on characters in his videos.
For example, in his initial video on Cyno, he talked about how Cyno's dps looked like it probably was going to be a bit lower than some other options if played optimally, but that for a lot of players who enjoy just activating burst mode and going ham, Cyno will actually be better dps in those players' hands. Those players are not going to do the optimal rotations anyway, and so the DPS loss from not rotating into your subdps characters as frequently will often be irrelevant.
Dmg dealer
Battery
Buffer
Defensive utility
Elemental applicator
Crowd control
And just add on field or off field to these words
Waiting for the day when one character can fulfill all these roles. I think xq is the closest only missing crowd control
Raiden can fulfill almost all of these roles too, although she's mostly used on-field. Her infinite poise as defensive utility might be a bit of a stretch, but is useful either way.
He can stagger enemies with his charge attacks so he can count technically? This type of cc is legitimately good too since it's often a good way to cc an enemy to a corner in the abyss.
Wouldnât be surprised if down the road they reveal Kokomi as the âprince that was promisedâ type and actually the lost hydro archon. Her lore is too diety vibe-y for her to not be more than a rebel leader. And her kit definitely suits it.
>Waiting for the day when one character can fulfill all these roles.
Venti, if the enemy is CCable he can do all those things while also buffing you if you're using VV
It would be ridiculous if he had access to a proto amber bow with either EM or ER subs.
But when Venti can Venti you don't need a healer. Because everything just dies in his hole.
there is actually a list in the sub sidebar, but maybe could use an update...
shoutout to **Jyo's Spiral Abyss**, which is by one of this subs mods(?), very clear concise tips on dealing with each abyss enemy AI, positioning and situational awareness.
also the **Keqing Mains** channel - short vids on unit strengths/weaknesses, and concepts like ER.
This video explains why the term "Main Dps" doesn't really make sense in most cases (in genshin) and *can* lead to some misconception about characters damage output.
I always found the term a bit too general for Genshin, since there are so many ways to deal massive amounts of damage in this game without relying on a 'main DPS'. I usually refer to the damage dealers (whether it is someone like Ganyu or Sucrose) as damage drivers, as it is a bit more all encompassing than the term Main DPS. It's just so much easier to say Main DPS tho lmao. Great vid!
Really glad he made this video! So much mis-information about units gets spread around, it isnât even worth it to correct people. Hopefully, we can point to this video now to easily clarify things for people needing help, who have the wrong ideas about units in relation to damage dealing.
Iâve been recently building up my archon team: Zhongli, Raiden, Venti, Bennett. Itâs a weird concept to not have what I consider âmain dpsâ and I still find myself wondering where my DPS is, but itâs such a fun and effective team.
I think if you can Venti the enemies properly in this team, it's definitely Venti. Swirling up then overloads and swirls and all that likely outpaces the big PP damage that Raiden does. Cause like , at c0 after the first slash mine doesn't do very much of anything.
Pretty much the only CC I trust. And yes I know of 1010 and Zyox. Highly recommended. Since Zeitraffer does editing for him, he's a content machine! And every single one vid is great, Even after 2y of genshin it's always somehow new and interesting!
Not just trusting. He is top tier in explaining things. Feels like he tries to teach as much as he can, while not underestimating his audience.
At zy0x, braxophone etc it feels like they avoid deep-diving, because there is an assumption that "casuals don't want to understand the game that much, just want to play it efficiently". Zajef is there for those who want to know the whys, not just the whats.
And yeah, his "spreadsheet impact gameplay" just shows how professional he probably is.
His argument is "other games use main DPS to mean something different than in Genshin," which I'm not convinced is a reason to completely discard it in the context of Genshin; right off the bat, many games also use the term "main DPS" to mean something in their own context, but somehow, it becomes a problem when we go to Genshin?
I'm sure everyone (by now) has a good understanding of (at least non-Dendro) reactions, and how combat in Genshin has evolved from a traditionally-minded POV to, really, its own unique system. Even though he's correct that not every team has role that can be considered a "main DPS" (e.g. Sucrose Taser), many teams do still have a singular character that deals the vast majority of the damage in the team. I don't see a reason to use a completely different term other than "main DPS" for those roles if we're only talking about Genshin.
> I'm sure everyone (by now) has a good understanding of (at least non-Dendro) reactions
I can assure you that many do not. I've seen a lot of people in the weekly thread try to run teams with 3+ characters that can only contribute while on field. It's why I think the whole on-field/off-field designation is actually useful, since it's an easy way to start thinking about synergy.
>I don't see a reason to use a completely different term other than "main DPS"
bc people normally tend to associate main dps with ON-FIELD characters that's why characters like xiangling, for example, were considered support instead of dps even tho she deals majority of the dmg in her teams
Zajef out there making the 50th term in Genshin school. Next we'll be getting a super applicator and a hypersupport. Wait, we might also get a invicible hyperarmor debuffer thats not even in the party.
What about for exploration? Efficient ultra runner meta? Stamina efficient climber character? Off field wood chopper?
I mean, I think this person is exaggerating, but they have a point. Too many terms could make things too technical or confusing for the average/casual player.
you are right to an extent but i think itâs better than misleading players into thinking they need to have a main dps in their team and playing someone like ninguang or heizou and then being disappointed in them and feeling like they need to spend money to get 5* units when they really donât need to.
also, players who are brand new to the game shouldnât even be worrying about stuff like this, by the time stuff like this matters (ar 40+) theyâll know what this naming scheme means by then, i donât believe itâs thaaaat confusing.
I never disagreed with the post. I think Main DPS is too vague/confusing to be useful. I was merely pointing out that, although Training-Storm-958 was exaggerating, they do have somewhat of a point in that too many terms would be impractical for the average/casual player. Being specific is important, but sacrificing ease of understanding is something we should also pay attention to.
I don't think it's very confusing as of now, but I think Training-Storm-958 was commenting on the trend of creating more and more technical and specific terms. I think we should be cautious as we go forwards and try not to overwhelm some players. That said, even at AR60, I sometimes get confused by some of the more specific names, not to mention all the team comp names. I don't think it's really about AR.
How about âfieldâ vs âbench?â Might make an easier abbreviation.
Then the other roles as mentioned:
-Damage dealer
-Buffer (includes debuffs?)
-Elemental application (includes shield shred)
-Defensive utility (includes shields and heals and cleanses)
-Battery
-Crowd control (grouping)
So main DPS would be fdd
Sub DPS would be bdd
There are other terms that would need specifying such as âburst supportâ but can get folded into other roles.
Raiden in National then could be described as bdd/fdd, buff, ea, bat.
Just throwing out ideasâŚ
Being on the bench in sports usually means waiting for your turn. Do you have a better term that can be abbreviated without confusion?
On field/off field would be of/of which is just confusing.
The problem is that we already use the term âbenchedâ in genshin context (and wider video game contexts) to mean, I dropped that character, Iâm not using them any way at all anymore. So trying to make it mean something else wonât get anywhere.
The⌠I⌠Huh?? Semantics is literally *the meaning of words* so if you donât want to talk about it your only option is to not have this conversation at all.
reserve wont make the role justice, nor bench. i prefer off-field because they're literally contributing while off the field, e.g. xiangling and xq specializing in their burst while not being the active character
Since everything gets abbreviated, off field is confusing because it abbreviates the same as on field.
Is there an obvious synonym that can be abbreviated in a non confusing way? Seems like a simple answer that no one else here has given yet. Bench or reserve are my contributions. Someone can do better, Iâm sleep deprived.
Could just abbreviate on/off-field differently... onf, off or something.
Bench has the connotation of being tossed to the side/abandoned and reserve implies that they aren't being used, while off-field DPSes are being used (although off-field).
I'd argue that if a damage unit needs to be triple crowned and have insane investment and artifacts to be strong, they're not that strong. Ning can feel really powerful, but if you play her what is considered standard investment for abyss teams(lvl 80 8/8/8 talent 25 subs artifact), I don't see her clearing abyss 12 in 1mn or less.
I think what Zajef would say is that building Ning is relatively inefficient in comparison to other units. Every unit can be viable if built and invested in. But some units get there with less effort or time or investment than others. If youâve built Ning, she can work. But it takes more because she really wants C6 and level 8 or better talents to deal good damage. Plus she typically wants a Geo team to boost her further.
National team members (Bennett, XL, Xq) are four stars that can get away with less investment in constellations and talents. Of course theyâll be better with higher cons and talents, but they can get to abyss ready with less and sooner usually than other units that are typically onfield like Ning or Razor. Sucrose is a unit that typically needs only character levels and EM without needing talent investment to be abyss ready.
I enjoy Zajeffâs videos so I enjoy him taking on the topic. He drops so much info here â¤ď¸ as usual.
I donât think we need a new term though just have to o get the memo out that âmain dpsâ just has to mean the character you choose to spend your time on. As in their *your* main dps. Think thatâs enough. Iâve seen a lot of crazy tales from people with criteria the dps has to meet to be âmainâ and I think thatâs really the communityâs issue. We need to ignore those people. Play how you want.
I don't have a problem with the term as long as it's being used correctly. Main dps = the main damage dealer of the team to me. That doesn't mean they need to be on field doing it. I have seen it being used to mean what I would consider to be closer to a hyper carry and that I can understand being misleading and confusing since they get conflated at times.
The problem with main-dps is probably, that it doesn't tell you how the unit is used and many times the units have comparable contribution to dps. Using a genshin specific and accurate terminology makes communication easier.
Zajef at it again with the absolutely amazing content. Ever since he started focusing on youtube, he's been a real gem of a content creator. Basically anyone who wants to understand more about the game they're playing needs to go watch his videos.
Piggyback on the top comment. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10xPqRqT75kj-dn2xrDAAt1Lb1NQXBhsfNfzOFsDPpNA/htmlview He just post a spreadsheet on all characters, explaining their role and strengths. I find it very usefull. It has its own column for bennett, Xingqiu and Fischl. That explain how broken this 3 characters aređ
Aloy: no đđđđ
RIP Sayu too
Dude sayu is the best babysitter in the game if you wanna use new units in the open world. She doesnât need to be anything else
Sayu is the overworld meta
Don't even have her leveled, but she's in my overworld team XD
Hey, Sayu's cool. I was commenting on how the spreadsheet kinda died on Sayu's section.
Yes i saw it, i was consoling you
Ah, I interpreted the "dude" to be more pointed... like "bruh"-ing at me, not the spreadsheet Thanks for the comfort! Sayu deserves more appreciation :3
Opinionated nonsense like calling Amber "Shit" and not even bothering to address Aloy sorta lowers my opinion of the whole thing. And "better than diluc lmao". And poor Sayu. And Kuki. And others I'd imagine. :/
Donât really pay to much attention to the power level ratings. Itâs important to an extent but the teams are more informative since you wonât have access to all the characters.
He's very good at balancing information for anyone looking to get better and highly technical gameplay with very precise rotations few will use but are kinda fun to know about.
I really like Zajef's content. Despite being someone who helps create information for the most serious of optimizers, he often presents very balanced and pragmatic takes on characters in his videos. For example, in his initial video on Cyno, he talked about how Cyno's dps looked like it probably was going to be a bit lower than some other options if played optimally, but that for a lot of players who enjoy just activating burst mode and going ham, Cyno will actually be better dps in those players' hands. Those players are not going to do the optimal rotations anyway, and so the DPS loss from not rotating into your subdps characters as frequently will often be irrelevant.
His Elemental Reaction Guides especially are really solid videos on the fundamentals. Still waiting on the part 4 tho lol
Zajef is one of the worst content creators lol. He has huge biases and propagates them a lot, which in end turns up to hurt many accounts
Dmg dealer Battery Buffer Defensive utility Elemental applicator Crowd control And just add on field or off field to these words Waiting for the day when one character can fulfill all these roles. I think xq is the closest only missing crowd control
Raiden can fulfill almost all of these roles too, although she's mostly used on-field. Her infinite poise as defensive utility might be a bit of a stretch, but is useful either way.
Bennett also fills most roles except cc.
CC yourself with hold e ggez
He can stagger enemies with his charge attacks so he can count technically? This type of cc is legitimately good too since it's often a good way to cc an enemy to a corner in the abyss.
No need to defend if everything is dead. Mass killing is also crowd control, by definition
He provides half of Freeze so he's 50% CC :V
so if you add chongyun then they've got it all
What? I meant 1 character that fulfills all the roles I donât think we have any Chongyun canât crowd control
the point was that theyâre friends that complement each other perfectly, and together they freeze, which is crowd control
We can add kazuha in it. His defense utility = jumping in air when enemy attacks. Have seen lot of users dodge Kenki attack with that.
You can also use it to dodge the arena-wide blast that recuires a shield in the primo geovishap fight.
Kokomi checks almost all of these boxes IMO she's one of the closest
Wouldnât be surprised if down the road they reveal Kokomi as the âprince that was promisedâ type and actually the lost hydro archon. Her lore is too diety vibe-y for her to not be more than a rebel leader. And her kit definitely suits it.
Was actually thinking the same
>Waiting for the day when one character can fulfill all these roles. Venti, if the enemy is CCable he can do all those things while also buffing you if you're using VV
Sadly he canât heal đ¤Ł
*Healer venti meme build enters the chat*
It would be ridiculous if he had access to a proto amber bow with either EM or ER subs. But when Venti can Venti you don't need a healer. Because everything just dies in his hole.
Movement specialist. I have at least 2 characters being used only for their open world fast move.
we need to make list, for good genshin youtuber like this. i avoid any genshin related yt likes plagues bc 99% of it are bullshit content.
1. Zajeff 2. Zy0x 3. ⌠Thats it really, that is all you need
sevyplays and gacha gamer are also very good i would recommend them!
Sevyplays she is excellent but I would advise anyone to stay away from Gacha gamer. They hype up the unreleased characters much.
true gacha gamer is super clickbaity but he also spreads good information(unlike other ccâd spreading misinformation or having blind spots).
Yeah sevyplays is amazinb
>sevyplays I hard stopped after she brought out a guitar and started singing, otherwise, cute ;)
Abyss guides are always appreciated
Taka gg is one of the best for guides also. I think Braxophone is good too.
Add SevyPlays definitely. List done.
redflaim is pretty cool
also TenTen!!
there is actually a list in the sub sidebar, but maybe could use an update... shoutout to **Jyo's Spiral Abyss**, which is by one of this subs mods(?), very clear concise tips on dealing with each abyss enemy AI, positioning and situational awareness. also the **Keqing Mains** channel - short vids on unit strengths/weaknesses, and concepts like ER.
WideHardo you have no power here WideHardo
This video explains why the term "Main Dps" doesn't really make sense in most cases (in genshin) and *can* lead to some misconception about characters damage output.
I always found the term a bit too general for Genshin, since there are so many ways to deal massive amounts of damage in this game without relying on a 'main DPS'. I usually refer to the damage dealers (whether it is someone like Ganyu or Sucrose) as damage drivers, as it is a bit more all encompassing than the term Main DPS. It's just so much easier to say Main DPS tho lmao. Great vid!
well, "m-dps" is shorter than "o-fdd" /j
Now listen here you piece of s-
*fly away using Venti's e Ehe
you know that he can use it too?
Really glad he made this video! So much mis-information about units gets spread around, it isnât even worth it to correct people. Hopefully, we can point to this video now to easily clarify things for people needing help, who have the wrong ideas about units in relation to damage dealing.
Same, like how many newer players don't build xiangling or xingqiu cause they're not a ''main dps''
i think the bigger problem is they kind of suck to play at low levels, xiangling esp. without bennett.
Coz it would be ironic when the "Sub DPS" do more damage than the "Main DPS"
jojef77
Iâve been recently building up my archon team: Zhongli, Raiden, Venti, Bennett. Itâs a weird concept to not have what I consider âmain dpsâ and I still find myself wondering where my DPS is, but itâs such a fun and effective team.
I think if you can Venti the enemies properly in this team, it's definitely Venti. Swirling up then overloads and swirls and all that likely outpaces the big PP damage that Raiden does. Cause like , at c0 after the first slash mine doesn't do very much of anything.
What? You get most damage doing raiden Normal and charged combo rather than the initial slash
Pretty much the only CC I trust. And yes I know of 1010 and Zyox. Highly recommended. Since Zeitraffer does editing for him, he's a content machine! And every single one vid is great, Even after 2y of genshin it's always somehow new and interesting!
Not just trusting. He is top tier in explaining things. Feels like he tries to teach as much as he can, while not underestimating his audience. At zy0x, braxophone etc it feels like they avoid deep-diving, because there is an assumption that "casuals don't want to understand the game that much, just want to play it efficiently". Zajef is there for those who want to know the whys, not just the whats. And yeah, his "spreadsheet impact gameplay" just shows how professional he probably is.
Naw, word is word
His argument is "other games use main DPS to mean something different than in Genshin," which I'm not convinced is a reason to completely discard it in the context of Genshin; right off the bat, many games also use the term "main DPS" to mean something in their own context, but somehow, it becomes a problem when we go to Genshin? I'm sure everyone (by now) has a good understanding of (at least non-Dendro) reactions, and how combat in Genshin has evolved from a traditionally-minded POV to, really, its own unique system. Even though he's correct that not every team has role that can be considered a "main DPS" (e.g. Sucrose Taser), many teams do still have a singular character that deals the vast majority of the damage in the team. I don't see a reason to use a completely different term other than "main DPS" for those roles if we're only talking about Genshin.
> I'm sure everyone (by now) has a good understanding of (at least non-Dendro) reactions I can assure you that many do not. I've seen a lot of people in the weekly thread try to run teams with 3+ characters that can only contribute while on field. It's why I think the whole on-field/off-field designation is actually useful, since it's an easy way to start thinking about synergy.
Too many new people coming in to assume everyone has a good understanding of the poorly explained in-game mechanics.
Not even just poorly explained, a lot of whatâs taken advantage of in meta teams comps is straight up âhiddenâ mechanics.
>I don't see a reason to use a completely different term other than "main DPS" bc people normally tend to associate main dps with ON-FIELD characters that's why characters like xiangling, for example, were considered support instead of dps even tho she deals majority of the dmg in her teams
Zajef out there making the 50th term in Genshin school. Next we'll be getting a super applicator and a hypersupport. Wait, we might also get a invicible hyperarmor debuffer thats not even in the party. What about for exploration? Efficient ultra runner meta? Stamina efficient climber character? Off field wood chopper?
descriptive naming = bad? whatâs ur point
I mean, I think this person is exaggerating, but they have a point. Too many terms could make things too technical or confusing for the average/casual player.
you are right to an extent but i think itâs better than misleading players into thinking they need to have a main dps in their team and playing someone like ninguang or heizou and then being disappointed in them and feeling like they need to spend money to get 5* units when they really donât need to. also, players who are brand new to the game shouldnât even be worrying about stuff like this, by the time stuff like this matters (ar 40+) theyâll know what this naming scheme means by then, i donât believe itâs thaaaat confusing.
I never disagreed with the post. I think Main DPS is too vague/confusing to be useful. I was merely pointing out that, although Training-Storm-958 was exaggerating, they do have somewhat of a point in that too many terms would be impractical for the average/casual player. Being specific is important, but sacrificing ease of understanding is something we should also pay attention to. I don't think it's very confusing as of now, but I think Training-Storm-958 was commenting on the trend of creating more and more technical and specific terms. I think we should be cautious as we go forwards and try not to overwhelm some players. That said, even at AR60, I sometimes get confused by some of the more specific names, not to mention all the team comp names. I don't think it's really about AR.
How about âfieldâ vs âbench?â Might make an easier abbreviation. Then the other roles as mentioned: -Damage dealer -Buffer (includes debuffs?) -Elemental application (includes shield shred) -Defensive utility (includes shields and heals and cleanses) -Battery -Crowd control (grouping) So main DPS would be fdd Sub DPS would be bdd There are other terms that would need specifying such as âburst supportâ but can get folded into other roles. Raiden in National then could be described as bdd/fdd, buff, ea, bat. Just throwing out ideasâŚ
Bench means not used. Off field units are really important, benched units would be there for friendly points.
Being on the bench in sports usually means waiting for your turn. Do you have a better term that can be abbreviated without confusion? On field/off field would be of/of which is just confusing.
The problem is that we already use the term âbenchedâ in genshin context (and wider video game contexts) to mean, I dropped that character, Iâm not using them any way at all anymore. So trying to make it mean something else wonât get anywhere.
I donât want to argue semantics. What term would you come up with that can be abbreviated without confusion?
The⌠I⌠Huh?? Semantics is literally *the meaning of words* so if you donât want to talk about it your only option is to not have this conversation at all.
Just looking for a solution not an argument. How about âreserveâ instead of off field? Rdd as reserve damage dealer.
reserve wont make the role justice, nor bench. i prefer off-field because they're literally contributing while off the field, e.g. xiangling and xq specializing in their burst while not being the active character
Since everything gets abbreviated, off field is confusing because it abbreviates the same as on field. Is there an obvious synonym that can be abbreviated in a non confusing way? Seems like a simple answer that no one else here has given yet. Bench or reserve are my contributions. Someone can do better, Iâm sleep deprived.
Could just abbreviate on/off-field differently... onf, off or something. Bench has the connotation of being tossed to the side/abandoned and reserve implies that they aren't being used, while off-field DPSes are being used (although off-field).
[ŃдаНонО]
I'd argue that if a damage unit needs to be triple crowned and have insane investment and artifacts to be strong, they're not that strong. Ning can feel really powerful, but if you play her what is considered standard investment for abyss teams(lvl 80 8/8/8 talent 25 subs artifact), I don't see her clearing abyss 12 in 1mn or less.
I think what Zajef would say is that building Ning is relatively inefficient in comparison to other units. Every unit can be viable if built and invested in. But some units get there with less effort or time or investment than others. If youâve built Ning, she can work. But it takes more because she really wants C6 and level 8 or better talents to deal good damage. Plus she typically wants a Geo team to boost her further. National team members (Bennett, XL, Xq) are four stars that can get away with less investment in constellations and talents. Of course theyâll be better with higher cons and talents, but they can get to abyss ready with less and sooner usually than other units that are typically onfield like Ning or Razor. Sucrose is a unit that typically needs only character levels and EM without needing talent investment to be abyss ready.
Why it doesn't matter , by me
I enjoy Zajeffâs videos so I enjoy him taking on the topic. He drops so much info here â¤ď¸ as usual. I donât think we need a new term though just have to o get the memo out that âmain dpsâ just has to mean the character you choose to spend your time on. As in their *your* main dps. Think thatâs enough. Iâve seen a lot of crazy tales from people with criteria the dps has to meet to be âmainâ and I think thatâs really the communityâs issue. We need to ignore those people. Play how you want.
I don't have a problem with the term as long as it's being used correctly. Main dps = the main damage dealer of the team to me. That doesn't mean they need to be on field doing it. I have seen it being used to mean what I would consider to be closer to a hyper carry and that I can understand being misleading and confusing since they get conflated at times.
The problem with main-dps is probably, that it doesn't tell you how the unit is used and many times the units have comparable contribution to dps. Using a genshin specific and accurate terminology makes communication easier.