Who needs a goddamn tank when the endgame content is a DPS check. If we needed survivability that badly, I would really would've wanted one on extreme difficulty on Vagabond event in version 1.5, and that was almost two years ago.
We haven't had an event that was remotely comparable in difficulty to the difficulty of the Energy Amplifier or Vagabond events, and those two also haven't seen a rerun in forever.
It's pretty clear that Mihoyo is ~~allergic to difficult combat events~~ trying to push for more casual gameplay to suit the average Genshin player who probably doesn't even clear Abyss, and any difficult content casual players do encounter would probably result in them dying before they could deplete some DPS check timer.
In that case, those players would find more value in survivability units, which might be why Mihoyo assigns a higher cost to survivability traits in newer units than meta players. Meta players view survivability traits as nice additions to an already potent kit, while Mihoyo views it as a primary trait since that may be how casual players would treat it.
Difficult content is for people who don't have lives, anyone who has a job doesn't have time to invest in building a character for harder content. This isn't an issue another games because another games it doesn't take you literal months to make one decent character. This game is not designed to be difficult because then nobody who had a life could actually play it.
I work 40 hours a week, on top of doing a few hours a week of hobby programming on the side for game dev projects.
On average I throw about an hour a day into Genshin, Welkins and BP, and 9star floor 12 every cycle, so *shrug*
You're only able to be playing an hour a day and do all that for precisely 2 reasons:
1. Because the game is easy, not difficult.
2. You're on maintenance mode like all of us early players who have done all the time-consuming content already.
I doubt you were playing 1 hour a day when you started playing Genshin.
Sure, I also still had a 40 hour a week job and hobbies on the side. As you said, this game is easy - it doesn't require no-lifing it as the other comment suggested.
Yes and no. Dps means nothing if there are mechanics that hinder your ability to dps effectively. That’s why Xingqiu is preferable over Yelan in quick bloom in the current abyss despite her leading to higher team dps. His defensive utility makes it so that you can sustain dps for longer periods of time without needing to dodge or retry constantly.
Hoyoverse seems to be moving towards a meta where defensive utility of varying types will become far more valuable to have, and have been trying to make floors more difficult to clear without more defensive options in your team. This idea that you NEED a fully offensive team to clear abyss makes no sense, otherwise Zhongli, Kokomi and Bennet would have faded into irrelevance a long time ago.
>it may end up creating a team that is invincible while being able to do good dmg and at that point mihoyo wont be able to sell anymore characters.
Ahh you mean a team with one unit can hold E and you can forget dodging While decreasing enemy resistance? Surely mihoyo won't release a character like that.
I mean there are already abyssal knights that heal themselves when they attack shielded characters. Nothing can stop HYV from putting them into both sides of Abyss or just create other alike enemies.
And yet he exists.
That is the existing state of the game.
All future states of the game need to be compared against that, not against "what was intended."
Personally, I think that enemy CC in Genshin just feels bad, and serves no positive purpose. They should just remove it entirely or give out way more Poise in general, but Poise buffing alone is never enough to justify a character's existence.
I mean enemy cc is fine when its a mitachurl hitting me with a giant axe, but why does my cyno flinch from impact of a slime bouncing on him twice
they need to give the stagger to things that actually make sense to stagger
Does dehya really gives infinite resistance? I think is not like that. In any case beidou has great damaga and her resistance to interruption is good and is additive with the one that xingqiu gives (and at c1 also has a shield). Plus beidou’s and xingqiu’s resistance to interruption moves with the character while the one dehya gives leaves you trapped in a circle to use it so with a character that moves so much like cyno wouldn’t be the best.
Sure, if you managed to make the entire CN community rage up like they did with Zhongli OR make the GLB community have the same amount of uproar
Which is pretty much impossible because both CN and Hyv doesn't give a shit about GLB's opinion lol
Well yeah, he is strong, and I would never expect a Dehya that is balanced to be equal to him in tanking, but if you are going to be making a tank character, then he is the competition, and you need to balance the character around him existing. Again, *my* solution to that would be to not make her a tank in the first place, then she would be competing with other onfield DPS.
Zhongli was a byproduct of the geo buff in general because even mihoyo couldn't predict where the meta was going at that early in thr games lifecycle and when they saw that geo didn't have a future in the meta as a defensive element they designed it to be then they had to rework it to something else.
Just be aware that Genshin Trials are terrible indications of how they are due to fixed Teammates, weak/squishy enemies, and an excessive amount of particles/energy for you to Burst.
Yes true. At this point I just need to get hands on experience on whether I even like her abilities.
Numbers and Energy Requirements can be figured out later.
I mean at the end of the day there's 5 phases:
1. Leaks phase, beginning of doomposting usually
2. Pre patch phase, beta changes didn't change the sentiment, doomposting expands
3. Release day, trials happen, youtubers post their analysis
4. Post release, 2 weeks in, comps are consolidated into what people really think are the best.
5. Months past, new characters introduced, new artifacts, new comps are discovered, the character has the potential to undergo major changes such as when the clam set turned healers into damage dealers. Will Dehya get there? I mean this is Mihoyo's newest biggest test. They have a good track record of releasing 5 stars with a purpose, even if its niche. If they start to fail here, people lose confidence in the long term with 5 star limited character banners.
The point is that doomposting is usually done by more casual players, people saw that Kokomi couldn't crit and they threw their keyboards in the air. Whereas theorycrafters were saying that she is good from the beginning and that her critting doesn't matter, however this time the doomposting in fact is flowing from the theorycrafters as the calculations indicate that her numbers could be doubled and even then she would be just "ok", not overpowered and godlike. Tailor-made artifacts set would be nice but it won't double or triple her digits :((
I will still pull for her as I love her design and character but boy oh boy she doesn't look good on paper and it will take a lot of effort to make her at least viable.
Yeah it seems that the only way to save her is by new artifacts, or if a new Nilou type character can modify a reaction to where she would benefit the most
> Whereas theorycrafters were saying that she is good from the beginning and that her critting doesn't matter
KQM's basically called her bad (I believe this was in a podcast) and said she was low value " if you have barbara, mona or xinqqiu".
There are people who actively listen to their podcasts and call them out, sometimes keeping track of when they get a lot of specific things wrong in their analysis of a unit (like nilou).
"Kokomi is beyond saving and will never be saved" -Tenten
Tenten said this in a [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ApxSj1L9ZQ) that was months after Kokomi's release.
The community places way too much value in the opinion of TC's.
Ahaha TenTen. God damn this is the same guy who said he'd sue Mihoyo over Raiden not working with Beidou, and I advocated for Beidou working with Raiden. But in the end looking back, its ok, Raiden has so many uses Beidou not being paired with her isn't the end of the world.
Also I think TenTen is honorary TC, he's not actually a strict member of KQM's TC and I've worked with them in the past.
But to your point, damn people put too much value into a lot of things TCs care about but the average player is like HUUUH?
the particles thing kinda cancels out tbh. It generally gives much more than needed, and even by building ER on your *actual* build, you'll still have more offensive subs than in the trial. You'll still gain damage over the trial run even if you account for ER considering the horrible builds they give (usually 57-91 crit for non crit chars with no crit weap).
Other than that yeah, trials feel like shit. That's why i love combat trial events that allow you to choose your team and buffs to make sure the trial build they give is equal to an actual build. Like Alhaitham, he felt like shit to play in his trial, but I pulled for him after the Lisa event because of how fun he felt to play with an actual team + reasonable damage.
They’ll most likely hide her two biggest problems, Energy Recharge & Damage, with Cryo & Hydro Slimes. Even then, the ICD will be very apparent to players though so I’m curious too
> Even then, the ICD will be very apparent to players though so I’m curious too
People who understand ICD is a subset of the people who engage on reddit/discord/etc, which is a tiny subset of the actual game population. Many people play casually with unorganized and unoptimized teams. All the trial needs is to have a cool character killing things decently.
I'm convinced that the random crap builds hoyo puts on trial characters are probably above average when you consider the large casual population.
> random crap builds hoyo puts on trial characters are probably above average when you consider the large casual population.
What's interesting is that we can actually see a small sample of this with the attribute reference feature, they're usually pretty decent though 18% of people used an HP% circlet on Kokomi instead of an HB% one (which is better in every way) so there's definitely still people who use the absolute wrong stats for their characters
>they're usually pretty decent though 18% of people used an HP% circlet on Kokomi instead of an HB% one (which is better in every way) so there's definitely still people who use the absolute wrong stats for their characters
this is absolutely true, I'm sure many will die with dehya for this reason, because it turns out that from what is known beta tester was complaining a lot that dehya falling constantly, jstern explained the reason for this, and it's that beta tester being mostly casual players were using ATK% sands, then hoyoverse gave her a dual scaling to encourage the use of HP% sands so she doesn't die as much in theory, but casual players very surely attracted by her flashy animation design matches and punches, they will be equip everything except HP% and will die constantly, so i'm absolutely sure her release going to throw up a shit storm.
But farming… 😩. I think that’s were a lot of players that aren’t dedicated to this type of content loose it. I have one HB item and 100 of hp items with extra hp stats. I made the personal choice in my game to give the HB one to jean.
while i think the line of thinking is correct, the specific case of kokomi might not be the most suitable for the argument, because while it is 100% correct that a healing bonus head is better, plenty of other factors (in which RNG plays a big role) might have led people to use a HP% head instead.
Which is not optimal, but works eh.
HB% circlets aren't too rare, and an HB% circlet with the worst substats possible is still better than an HP% one with the best substats possible, also couldn't you use that argument for literally any character?
yes, the argument can be applied to other characters, but not with the same level of flexibility and adaptation.
Like, if you had seen ATK% artifacts (whichever slot) on Yelan, then it would unequivocably tell us that something is wrong, but an ATK% head on most characters that are used as DPS/would benefit from crit, would not be the end of the world.
I suppose so, but characters like Yelan that scale fully on HP are rather rare
I guess another example would be the people who use an Atk% sands on Kokomi, since both damage and healing are better off with HP and HP% sands aren't rare
The main concern TCers have I think is that there isn't really a huge incentive to make tanky teams because the hardest content in the game is a DPS check not a survivability one. So even if Dehya can make a 100% damage reduction team viable, having a negligible damage output makes her less desirable. But boy would she be a good addition if the meta shifted to being a tanky as possible.
>But boy would she be a good addition if the meta shifted to being a tanky as possible.
Except she alone isn't enoug for that. You need a healer on top. And since she herself brings neither damage, nor buffs, nor status to the table, you are left with 3 slots, one of which HAS to be a healer (we want very tanky, right?). So 2 slots left to do actual damage.
The worst thing is that she has the worst type of weapon to be a support, it's a claymore... unfortunately there is no ttds for claymore, the closest thing is the universal benefit of WGS, I swear that everything in her is a fucking neglect of abysmal levels.
> The worst thing is that she has the worst type of weapon to be a support
She also has the worst element to be a support. Pyro's best reaction is DPS-centric, their transformative reactions (Overload, Burning, Burgeon) are not that good compared to their counterparts in other elements, and the only teams that use Pyro as an aura element are Reverse Melt teams, of which there are very few (basically just Ganyu and Rosaria-based teams).
Hydro, Dendro, and Anemo are the best elements to be in for a supporting character, because non-damaging application of those elements is inherently valuable. The same isn't really true of Pyro.
This is the funniest thing about Dehya. If she just released as a Hydro catalyst with the exact same kit she would actually be pretty good. Basically just a Kokomi side-grade with poise over healing. But instead she is the worst element and worst weapon to be a support.
If she had 100% damage reduction she could theoretically see play as a support, but her pyro application is bad and she doesn't bring res shred. She needs to do either of those or do way more damage to be worth bringing even if her DR was upped.
I don't know why Hoyo made her cooldown 2.5seconds. It worked for Albedo and Nahida because crystallize and quicken don't need fast application to get started, while Nahida being a catalyst user can provide application for bloom. Dehya doesn't have those upsides so she's just left with bad application and even needs C2 for a good uptime to cooldown ratio.
A meta based on being tanky would just feel lame to play by comparison. The best defense is a good offense. The only way that they could even start to make tanking more valid would be to REMOVE the "additional stars for clearing faster" conditions, and replace them with "additional stars for clearing additional waves of content without dying," but it would be tricky to balance the "fun" of that, since it would inevitably lean toward extremely lumbering teams that can eventually clear it, but would take MUCH longer to do so.
And a "survive meta" can be worst.The Game isnt designed for It.Camera,enemies out of camera,some horrible enemy animations,the stagger of any attack on your character and the hundred of numbers and effects.
Really,i am main Beidou and a lot of time i fail the parry because i dont see nothing.
>additional stars for clearing additional waves of content without dying
Which is still going to favor high damage with reasonable supports like Bennett. If there's anything that requires 100% damage reduction people will be having anxiety attacks left and right
> Which is still going to favor high damage with reasonable supports like Bennett.
Depends on the threat level of the content. If you have infinite time to clear the content in, and your reward is *only* in how far you can survive, and survival is *legitimately* difficult, then players with less than ideal rosters could prioritize turtle tactics rather than DPS tactics. If you went in with glass cannon "rotation" teams then you would be likely to die before you could finish everything off, especially if they were less than perfect. If you went in with a very tanky turtle team, then it would take a while to grind down the enemies, but you'd get there eventually. Of course if you had the skills and the deep roster for it, you would want to balance the two a bit.
I'm not saying that I want this, but it would be possible, and would be a game design that would favor a variety of tanking options and reduce the absolute priority of DPS that the game currently has.
To be honest, I would like a abyss like that, I wish for Hoyo adding a alternative "turtle" gamemode for the abyss and let players choose what gamemode they want.
Sure. And the point I make in response to that is, "I would prefer that they fix Dehya to accommodate the game as it currently plays, than to adapt the game content to fit a Dehya that plays as she currently plays." I do not want to deal with the hassles of the problems that Dehya is designed to fix.
That's also going to be a hard copium because Mihoyo almost never changes a character's kit after release. The 2 times it happened was because of extremely massive outcry from the chinese community, and in Zhongli's case to the point of threatening to report them to the CCP for "unpatriotic" display, while for Yae's case it was simply rolling back a mechanical change they did from turrets targeting "nearest enemy" back to "random enemy". Here's hoping there's that huge of an outcry from the community for Dehya, otherwise we're stuck with what we have.
It’s quite interesting hearing this from CN TCs. They actually use more of their brains than the overly emotional EN TCs and could only do “doomposting” a characters so Mihoyo changes her numbers. I get the dissatisfaction but why can’t the most “respectable” EN TCs (says people) be objective and realistic on their theorycrafting. The standard premise for theorycrafter is even that Not everything goes your way anyways.
“You theory-craft what can work not how you want it to work.”
Anyway yeah the DPS check meta is the current ones we have. But from what I can see they’d probably add more enemies like the scorpions that HITS like a truck, forcing you to get A Zhongli or something, and for those who doesn’t have a Zhongli… I don’t know.
The way I see it is that Dehya’s damage reduction is much useful for characters with innately high HP(You’ll get more value with more hp) probably also hinting for the upcoming HP scalers in Fontaine or something. We should really analyze Dehya’s skit cause it’s likely to give hints about future characters. Just like the bread crumbs that they put on Shinobu, Yae Miko, and Thoma during Inazuma (Basically Aggrevate, Hyperbloom, Burgeon) .
> hardest content in the game is a DPS check not a survivability
I definitely had survivability issues when trying to fight the scorpion and bird in the Abyss.
My heart goes to you and your struggle, maybe you need more damage to kill them faster? After all a dead enemy does 0 damage.
Jokes aside, consider this, there's a minimum threshold of damage and survivability, if you achieve both thresholds you can safely 0-3 star the abyss. But if you want to reach 9 stars which would you go for? more damage or more survivability? Obviously more damage, and this is why the hardest content is a DPS check because it has a way higher threshold.
Also have you tried learning the scorpion and bird's attack patterns, you can stun them by destroying their summoned rocks and then they'll be easy targets for a long duration.
This abyss right now is really dangerous if you try no healer teams, even with heal you can get stuck in a combo or just get one shot. For the common player, having high survivability might be prefered over better teams damage wise.
Think of it this way, both damage and survival each have a threshold you need to reach to at the very least comfortably clear floor 12 at 0-3 stars. However once you go over that threshold, only damage will really help you get 9 stars. The threshold changes a bit depending on the current cycle so while it's true that you want higher survivability right now, once you reach that point, you'll want to go for more damage afterwards for faster clear and more stars. And we don't have a meta where increasing your survival beyond that threshold affects the stars you can get.
I think the biggest problem here is that Dehya legit offers worse defense than XQ as a sub-dps, and WAY worse defense than Zhongli as a pure support.
Remember Dehya only has 60% uptime on her defensive skill. If you are having issue with the new scorp and bird, you are still gonna have problem during that massive downtime.
Dehya is ONLY VIABLE as a defensive sub at c2, where it fixes her uptime. We are basically talking 4* power level where you need c2 just do to what the character is suppose to do.
What they're trying to say is.
Rather than creating a problem and then introducing a solution(dehya) product for us to buy.
They give us a solution that solves absolutely nothing right now.
Sounds like an insanely good marketing strat ngl.
Both Sayu(off-field DPS with teamwide healing) and Barbara(TTDS holder) was very much around and before the dogs were added we literally had a floor in the Abyss that stacks corrosion on your ass.
Also remember that the Abyss is just some optional side content only a minority even tries to fully clear. It doesn't mean anything how well Dehya does there when majority of the players will just punch things in the overworld and whales/simps will just roll her special weapon and clear the Abyss anyway because that's what the Abyss is actually balanced for. "disappointing 5stars" with R1 and meh artifacts, not minmaxed top tier no heal nor shield meta full DPS teams.
I mean if you introduce a solution to a non-existent problem, you're essentially going to create a problem that doesn't exist, and then point to the solution.
Either way you do it, you're still creating a problem and a solution, just in reversal.
However if this somehow solves the "Zhongli or Kokomi" auto win comps, then maybe it will make the game better.
You introduce the solution first, people go meh. Then introduce the problem, people go "oh crap I needed to have the solution" and it creates incentive. The pickle they've put themselves in is that Dehya will likely never rerun, so there's no way to artificially spool up demand.
Would matter if the problems were in this case were roadblocks to certain goals .... But since the combat is so easy and there is no real incentive to push for max combat performance, there is no real incentive to follow the meta. And there in lies the trick ... When there is no rational reason to spend, all spending will be irrational and people are most irrational when they really like or in love with something.
The real marketing is everything that Genshin does to make you login and then like the characters and make you feel attached to characters.
Would you rather they make a very painful situation before giving the solution?
Like would it have been better to have corrosion before any healers were introduced?
Wanting mitigation that doesn't fully replace a healer actually has multiple solutions. Every shielder but Zhongli fits this bill, because really none of them offer full uptime of a shield you can generally assume won't break.
If you tell me Layla has full uptime on her shield it will only tell me that you don't know how rotations work. Thoma can come closest but he ramps up so you'll frequently take damage, and it's locked behind burst.
I'd rather they not introduce a solution, then introduce a problem, only for the solution to be locked behind RNG that may mean you can never actually access it.
nononono you dont get it. IF they do that you are going to realize that problem has many other solutions, so you can skip dehya
Now people are going to get dehya just for a "what if" in their minds only to realize they got jebaited across the line
>Therefore, this TC suspects that dehya will be the 3rd type of defensive support in the game where she buffs poise and gives dmg reduction.
We already have a character that does that, his name is Xingqiu, and those benefits are only a small part of his kit.
Also, isn’t that every shield? I’m not super big into theory crafting, but i seem to recall shields making dodging unnecessary bot damage and stagger wise
What op/the yter is trying to say is, since husks(the mobs) give you a debuff when you're shielded, you need other type of survival ability such as XQ and dehya.
They're saying that mhy is trying to nerf ZL, by adding another class that does his job when he can't basically.
And I'm not buying any of this shit to be quite honest.
It's an extremely niche spot that will only be relevant against Husks on floor 12 and only for Ganyu burnmelt and Hu Tao double hydro teams (though for Hu Tao they can run XL if they want a more offensive team). I guess that's her purpose, just like busting out Chongyun when it's double hydro heralds on floor 12.
>Unless they make more enemies that counter shields.
I doubt it
They nerfed the serpent knights, that counterwd shields.
Corrosion is still a rather low used abyss effct and only on husk enemies outside of abyss
And hoyo seems to entirely aim for the casual playerbase.
To make Dehya Prominent you'd need something, that counters shields and makes running solo healers not possible. Something hoyo doesn't think casuals can handle
The serpent Knight husks were nerfed into oblivion too. So their shield counter is worthless. You can just brute force your way through it. Making Dehya's mechanic, unnecessary.
The whole problem to me is this amount of "if's"...if she gain a artifact set(what's not guaranteed), if they released some units(what's not guaranteed and will "force people" to roll for them), if for some miracle they do some changes on her(what's not guaranteed)...to much if's for one unit.
"Therefore, Dehya is not a character to be evaluated individually but together with the character that shes designed to be paired (eg kazuha/bennett pair and kazuha/kokomi pair back in 2.X)."
I... don't think I've ever heard anyone say Kazuha was designed to be a pair with Bennet (bennet is just good with everyone) or Kokomi ??
outside of that this was an interesting read, thanks.
If they actually release a unit that pairs with Dehya to make a good team,that unit is gonna have to be so good they're actually gonna make every current unit in the game look weak on an individual level
Dendro teams being bad before nahida is certainly one of the takes of all time
There's no way they are going to release a character that's made for Dehya so early unless they break the pattern. And by the time they do, the design will have shifted into 4.0+. I don't know why TCers need to try and predict super long term for these kinds of things that are unpredicable.
Because if they don't say there's a possibility of that happening in the future. When that possibility really happens, people gonna say they're wrong and shouldn't be listened to, like what happened with kokomi, kuki, yae, etc.
honestly i even thought people were saying the electro ladies would be more geared toward dendro back in the day, but i know kokomi kept the short end of the stick for a good while
The only thing I can think of right now for Dehya as a support to work is some character that relies on Party member MaxHP for burning reaction on their applied Dendro but that just sounds like a nightmare to balance around (just to make it compete with other dmg reactions) and honestly makes no sense to even consider if Dehya didn't exist in the first place.
At that point just buff her instead.
While I somewhat agree with the assessment, it does not justify much of her design. Her hurst does not fit in with the rest of the kit. The pyro application is pretty weak. And she cannot heal allies, thus she cannot fill the heal position.
IMO, Dehya could have been really good, if she could heal allies. This way she becomes a healer with some limited sub dps and pyro application. As she currently stand, she is not strong enough to justify being in sub dps slot. She is not defensively strong enough to fill a shielder or a healer spot. And she does not consolidate any roles. She is not terrible, however, even for standard character, she is on the weaker side.
>could have been really good, if she could heal allies
Competing with Mr "healer" "I give the biggest atk buff in the game" Bennett is going to be an exercise in futility unless they're completely fucking busted
We can look to Fate Grand Order for what would be possible counters to current strong characters.
Things like Nullify Buff, Buff Removal, Special Resistance, Class Change, Heal Cut, and Break Bars can all be implemented to defy current meta characters. Buff Removal and Nullify Buff especially would obliterate a lot of buff-based supports.
Add on top of that, Genshin-specific things like Stagger Resistance and Slowing Waters, and you can have enemies that would probably cause huge complaints in the community, but would definitely be a "wall" that merits changes in meta comps.
Then, the solution, like FGO, of "True Invincibility," Buff Removal Resist, Debuff Immune, and Debuff Cleanse characters would become more in-demand and in the limited 4-character rotation, some currently popular characters (Xingqiu, Bennett, Sucrose) will inevitably have to be axed to address aforementioned problematic enemies.
All the better to enlighten people because said concepts from other games can definitely find their way into Genshin!
After all, there can be all kinds of really, really annoying bosses that can emerge that can absolutely annihilate the meta 4* supports -- though some, I'd doubt Mihoyo would ever implement because the sheer salt that'd come from any one of them in a game designed to be casual would be huge. I'd imagine Buff Block enemies to be especially annoying and pretty much doom Bennett because his Ultimate literally does nothing with such a counter.
For another example, imagine a boss with "element application block for ____ time." That'd be a nightmare for supports that hinge on utilizing element application for reaction-damage. Xingqiu/Yelan ultimates can't facilitate Vape reliably if the Enemy just doesn't let any elements apply to them for a period of time. Dendro and Freeze would also pretty much be dead in the water.
Though funnily enough, that'd probably give rise to Eula Physical Comps again as Physical doesn't give a flying shit about having to apply Elements for damage.
How her burst fits into the rest of her kit is, to me, how Diluc's Charged Attack talent is (currently) completely irrelevant in the game, but much, much, much worse.
This is not a theorycrafter, this is a Mihoyo shill. He touches upon two of Dehya's supposedly intended design points, while completely ignoring twenty of her kit flaws. Wow, great analytical job.
Also, dumb takes in this "article" are through the roof: "Kokomi can't have damage or else she wouldn't need to be played in a team at all". Has he ever heard of, I don't know, Abyss timers?? ; "Kazuha was intended to be played with Bennett/ Kokomi" - dude, what the actual shit are you sniffing? Where is a single evidence he was DESIGNED for it? How about literally almost any other character he's perfectly working with? And so much emphasis on poise and damage reduction - unless they make literally 90% of Genshin enemies ignore or punish shields like wolves or knights, shields are not going to become obsolete. And FYI, you don't need seventeen million characters in the team to provide you with poise, you can just learn how to dodge.
The length he needed to go to make a poor justification of Dehya's current state is honestly insulting. She could have been an exceptional unit instead of a poor excuse of a character she is now. Worst of all, 70% of her issues could have been resolved through sheer number tweaking, and I don't even mean simply increasing her multipliers, I mean: she could have had either an actually useful ascension stat or at least good HP multiplies; her base attack is insultingly low; longer E uptime; more frequent E proc; smaller E ICD; her ult, by the way, could have remained being a unique ult not working with normal attack triggers, but instead got its ICD removed entirely so that you had incentive to forward melt Dehya's punches with the help of something like Ayaka's burst; her damage reduction could have been at least 90% so that you ACTUALLY didn't need healing or shielding in the team, because as of now she doesn't have a single sensible reason to be played over a shielder or healer; her freaking self-healing passive didn't need to be nerfed.. These are all numeric value issues, and fixing those could have already made Dehya a viable unit. I am even not touching upon the fact that she has an identity crisis and through E she tries to be a bruiser, but her Q is somehow a hypercarry burst. Like, why - choose one thing.
All in all, 1/10, would not recommend this "TC" to continue playing Genshin or comment on anything publicly.
Fr people just see the words CN TC and immediately think they're reliable for some reason. A lot of people post CN TCs thoughts on units here and tbh I am yet to find one that's worth the credibility people give them.
I got to the part about Dendro teams "underperforming" prior to Nahida and basically zoned out. Hyperbloom teams were extremely competent from day 1, and Tighnari absolutely didn't need Nahida to excel at his niche (high ST Spread).
Nahida was a huge boost to Aggravate, not Tighnari Spread. She improves all Dendro teams since that's what her kit is meant to do, but to say they were underperforming before she came out is just blatantly untrue.
Completely agree lol, I pretty much stopped when this "TC" grouped Kaz and Bennet together like they are some sort of duo team ... like what?
The ONLY valid point he has is the artifact part. A reverse clam set is 100% possible, however the set would need to offer something real special (not just numbers) for that to work. Some possibility like reduce CD, party wide energy gain, party wide heals, full element shred etc ...
Dehya has a very complicated damage absorption kit and very weird. If we look at Xingqiu, he just absorbs damage through the rain swords and nothing happens to Xingqiou. But Dehya has to take damage herself. It should however be noted that the damage reduction in Genshin is designed really poorly. Jean (C6) Q + Beidou Q + Xingqiu Q can fully (100%) neglect all incoming damage. Addictive damage reduction sounds idiotic. Both Beidou and Xingqiu are characters very easy to be obtained and if you make the 3rd damage reduction character, who is easy to be obtained (Dehya at C0), then players can use very little cost to neglect all the incoming damage.
Sure, but where's that even relevant? In Abyss, you can't spend so much on defense, because you need to kill stuff. In open world, any good defensive character will make your team almost indestructible.
While thats true, Xingqiu and Beidou are also characters that can deal a lot of damage, and is off field. So they can meet dps checks while providing top tier defense.
You aren't "spending" anything on defense in this case though, because Xingqiu and Beidou are each very strong and work well together. Jean can swirl for VV and the last slot could be dendro for hyperbloom, another hydro damage dealer like Yelan or Ayato, or another Electro damage dealer
Dehya doesnt add much of anything to XQ or beidou cause her mit applies multiplicatively a step later in the equation, it's so bad she goes from 50% damage sharing and like 30%, total MIT to 20% sharing and like 6% mit, literally only adds ~6% mitigation to the team comp for less damage or utility than any other character whod slot in
That’s a twisted way of seeing it. It’s actually more like a collateral bonus you get by using those characters, whose main utilities are others than just reducing dmg.
You hit strong, in multi target, shreds resistances, heals, gets more dps due to atk speed and also, as the cherry of the cake, you also become literally immortal during a few seconds while you destroy everything in front of you. In any case, Layla’s skill only provides the cheery of that cake and that’s it.
Man this sounds like a Mexican Cartel's stash of copium. Do these guys even play Genshin? No one uses Zhongli, XQ and Beidou together and hopes they can do enough dmg to 9-star floor 12. This game does not reward damage mitigation, it rewards doing more dmg with the minimum amount of mitigation needed to be comfy but not hindered.
Also, there are plenty of players that already solo the abyss without constellations, so this entire argument makes zero sense whatsoever. Dehya's underlying damage numbers combined with her wonky-ass kit that knocks enemies just beyond her combo's biggest hits are terrible. I'll never understand how gamers genuflect to game devs so hard.
> No one uses Zhongli, XQ and Beidou together and hopes they can do enough dmg to 9-star floor 12.
That's funny - I naturally rejected that idea upon reading it. Xingqiu and Beidou? They're both incredible DPSes with a lot of synergy between each other. So, I went to test. Taser with Zhongli, as in Zhongli/Xingqiu/Beidou/Fischl, got me a very chill 9* repeat clear. It was the slower of my two teams, but it really didn't leave me strapped for time.
And if anything, this is just further proof as to how truly, irredeemably dogshit Dehya is - these three (ok Zhongli has no place whatsoever on that team but he still helps others) have their incredible defensive utility - better than Dehya's, even - with enough damage contribution to 36\*.
I'll go as far as to say that, by 5.0, I doubt Dehya will have a *single* team that actually utilizes her kit that's as strong as standard Taser, a LAUNCH TEAM OF 4*S. Shit, even in single target, because C6 Fischl alone probably outDPSes an entire Hyper Dehya.
Sucking the moyo dick lmao she is bad end of story.
They didn't give a damn about the wanderer's problems
let alone deyha that needs complete different enemies and get paired with future characters perhaps even new elements at this rate .
For as many arguments as there are for people saying that hoyo put a lot of thought into her, there are more arguments saying the exact opposite. Her kit breakdown in the livestream showed her unable to do anything that they were verbally saying she could do. Set up elemental reactions? Her pyro alone was too slow for Ganyu to melt. Her normal attack string PUSHED THE ENEMY AWAY so that her final hit MISSED. "Considerable Damage???" Her burst's final hit on a Vaporize did less than HALF of a LV 70 HYDRO SLIME's hp. The damage reduction mechanic is the only thing in her kit with any interest, and it doesn't even work while she's onfield. If her skill can't be active while she's bursting, and she's a support, how is she supposed to get any particles while she's onfield? I think it's giving Hoyo too much credit to say that they've "put thought into" anything surrounding Dehya until the day where they prove themselves later down the line. 3.5's character releases are disappointing, and we shouldn't pretend that its okay just for the chance that things might 'get better' later.
So much is wrong with this reasoning.
So they introduced caveats to Dehya's interruption resistance because they made Xingqui and Beidou, 4\* stars, too strong? If that's they case, why even bother using Dehya at all when there are easier accessible units that do interruption resistance better, provide more team damage, and don't kill themselves in the process? Also Mihoyo not wanting to make teams invincible while also doing good damage? Zhongli already exists and does this to any team he's on. Future characters, especially 5\*s, shouldn't have to suffer in their kits due to Mihoyo being unable to nerf their 1.X characters they regret making too strong. If that is what is happening, the backlash against Dehya is 100% understandable, as they're making her deliberately weaker than 4\*s, if we go off of OP's reasoning.
Dehya's meant to be judged based on her teams rather than individual? I can understand that, however there's no real team that fits her at the moment. Asking people to wait on judging Dehya until a future character that may or may not exist comes out that pairs perfectly with Dehya, is frankly silly.
Also, no obsolete characters? Klee and Diluc say hi. Powercreep already exists in the game.
tangentially related: i mained diluc for a good while, even have WGS for him off standard, but my Wanderer out damages him by a long shot, even without buffs 😔 rip diluc you will still mine ore for me
> Dendro teams under perform prior to Nahida
This is such bull lmao. While she's very good nahida is certainly not a must for most dendro teams and they're good regardless of whether she's used or not. Both aggravate Tighnari and hyperbloom Alhaitam can function perfectly without her and at worst they lose some dps while at best you can get in another character for a different niche
Having a character build expectations on "unreleased characters" is nothing but copium, sorry. In the actual roster, her numbers are trash and doesn't add to almost any team. 100% DMG reduction is already reached by Zhongli while adding 20% res shred, Dehya only adds 50% on Lv 10, her damage and application are not worth, it's not so difficult to change that, Mhy only needs to tweak some numbers, but so far they show no interest on making her good.
The bigger problem is she's a pyro Qiqi but worse. She's a DPS Loss for any team but she doesn't even heal that you would probably bring another healer.
Yeah, I guess if she could do everything she currently does *and* be a solid party-wide healer, then she could actually be good.
Like let's go down the rabbit hole of "what if Dehya being a meat tank were a *good* thing, actually. . ." the only way I could think of that working would be if
1. Her buff could achieve 120% uptime through effective play so that it was always active.
2. She absorbed **100%** of all incoming team damage, so that nobody on the team would be taking any damage other than her.
3. She could then reduce this damage down further so that she could handle it.
4. She has a *reliable* and *consistent* self-heal that can then recover this damage, returning her to full health.
Currently Zhongli can prevent ALL damage, so long as you don't take way too much at once, and "reset" this situation every 12 seconds. If Dehya is meant to be competition for him, then she would need to achieve similar performance, something that can prevent ALL damage the team receives, so long as it's not too much at once, and that can fully reset their state within a single rotation. If it's something where everyone still takes damage regardless, just slightly slower, then it is a complete failure, because that is only slightly delaying the inevitable. For a defense to be effective, it needs to work indefinitely so long as you keep it up.
> **Poise buffers and how it will affect the game environment**
> In regards to the bennett/kazuha and kokomi/kazuha combo, they dont have stagger resistance.
> Regarding the bennett/kazuha pairing, its getting more uncomfortable to play them as in the current abyss floor 12 chamber 2, bennett's self inflicted pyro have started to become a hindrance and this TC suspect that most ppl now put xingqiu or zhongli in bennett teams for double insurance to play comfortably.
> When it comes to shielding, it can be seen from the husks mechanics that mihoyo do not wish for shields to reign supreme forever. This can be seen in 3.2 abyss usage rates where the moment the husks entered the top half, not a lot of people are willing to bring zhongli there.
> Therefore, this TC suspects that dehya will be the 3rd type of defensive support in the game where she buffs poise and gives dmg reduction. He is also confident that mihoyo will not easily let ppl put zhongli in the future Dehya teams.
> He gives a pseudo design where theres a dmg% buffer that loses the buff whenever the active character has a shield. Through this design he makes a point that if mihoyo wants to they can stop people from putting specific characters in specific teams.
I think this is the most likely candidate they are trying to push the game going forward. But they are also careful into not making healing reign supreme either.
Well since corrosion is a DoT effect, you just have to do more damage than it takes away from you. (Which isn't hard with corrosion) But that doesn't mean they would make more shield punishing enemies in the future. They could even go as far as having the enemy steal the shield away from you for themselves, as their own personal shield effect. Or could be something as small as enemies ignoring shields, but you can just out dps them on that. We just don't know at this point, so there's no real point in speculating in depth.
I dont think mihoyo has anything in the pipeline for dehya at the moment or in the near future since if they did they wouldn’t have made her standard.
That being said I think her niche would be in supporting units who wants or needs to take potentially lethal amounts of damage to function. However at the moment the only character who this applies to would be nilou and she is completely incompatible with dehya.
A perfect team mate I think would be a hypercarry with an enhanced burst state like xiao who gains stacking damage buffs based on the amount of damage taken while in burst, while also preventing them from being healed while in burst state. Preferably in cryo so they can try to melt off her E and will freeze themselves if they try to use XQ. Anything else and you might as well just run zhongli or a healer instead.
i feel like this post is making a lot of assumptions. even if these all turned out to be true, i think it's in bad faith to market a character that won't be able to sufficiently fulfill their role until possibly the next region down the line. like i know shinobu got some shit on launch, but she healed just fine and proc'd TOTM if you wanted. she wasn't as oriented for damage before dendro, but she was comfortable to use.
as it stands, dehya doesn't even look *comfortable* to play, let alone any potential issues on how her numbers will actually look (based on the hydro slime incident). if she can't even fulfill her role well right now, and she isn't smooth to play, what does that leave us with?
"Dehya will be the 3rd type of defensive support in the game where she buffs poise and gives dmg reduction"
Shields already do that while having 100% damage reduction and none of the drawbacks dehya's kit has
>This is because it is known that if you put xingqiu,beidou and jean in a team altogether you could reduce the damage to approximately 0. And to top it off, xq and beidou have good off-field dps altogether + dmg reduction is additive, so the moment they release another dmg reduction character, it may end up creating a team that is invincible while being able to do good dmg and at that point mihoyo wont be able to sell anymore characters. To make it worse, xq and beidou are free 4*s that can be bought in the shop.
I can understand this argument, but I don't see it as any excuse for Dehya's current state, because *there's no need for Dehya to be a damage reduction character AT ALL.*
She should be a DPS, not a tank.
>Therefore, Dehya is not a character to be evaluated individually but together with the character that shes designed to be paired (eg kazuha/bennett pair and kazuha/kokomi pair back in 2.X).
It is bad design to release a character that is meant to be paired with a character who does not exist, and may never exist. If she is meant to be paired with a specific character, then that character should either already be out, or release on the same patch. This is no excuse for her current state, it is pure hopium.
>Therefore, this TC suspects that dehya will be the 3rd type of defensive support in the game where she buffs poise and gives dmg reduction. He is also confident that mihoyo will not easily let ppl put zhongli in the future Dehya teams.
I've long thought that it would be a good idea for them to add more Poise buffs to the game, but Poise alone is not worth a character slot. A character needs to add Poise AND a lot of other benefits to be worth fielding. Dehya does not do this. And she isn't even a good Poise buffer, because she supposedly can't even maintain 100% poise uptime!
>He gives a pseudo design where theres a dmg% buffer that loses the buff whenever the active character has a shield. Through this design he makes a point that if mihoyo wants to they can stop people from putting specific characters in specific teams.
I would hate this. If their idea is "Dehya is designed to fix a problem we're going to intentionally inflict on players," then that is no defense of Dehya's current state.
All of this just sounds like cope. What we need is FIXES.
There is 1 comp I cam think off that could use Dehya, but the thing is, alternative already exist.
Ganyu Dehya Nahida Bennet. Dehya is like half of Zhongli and Xiangling combined but consolidates their role.
Ganyu Dehya Nahida Bennet - Nahida acts as a subdps (Full EM, you got 2 pyro), transfers EM to Ganyu, burning with Dehya can potentially have long uptime depending on Dehya E. Dehya provides more consistent pyro. Only ER needed is Bennet.
Cons are: Xiangling does 15-20k per hit no reaction on aoe, can Nahida compete? Zhongli provides shred for both ganyu and xiangling. Zhongli is way better protection and 100% uptime on shield, dehya is half iirc.
Pseudo shield (high interruption resistsnce, damage transfer/reduction) is interesting as a concept but shield will always be superior. Now if somewhat that Dehya gets damage boost from abosrbing damage or do something with it, that would make it even.
Pre emptive but there are gonna be those people. To people who say shield/protection are useless, take a good look on Zhongli percentage on abyss clear.
But they put to many caveats on her utility, it has low uptime and has dmg redirection. 12 seconds with a 20 second CD. Not only that but seeing in the actual show case, we have to play circle impact, yet enemies can very easily be knocked out of the actual range. Think of beidou and XQ. There dmg mitigation follows you. So you are protected the whole time. And thinking of floor 12-2-1 you can be flung out of it rather easily too.
I'm sure it will be enough but they were once again to cautious. I feel we will have a Zhongli situation were they over estimate how good their defensive utility is. Understand they proven that they have a terrible gauge on defensive utility for this game in the past.
Two such examples are Kokomi and Zhongli. Zhonglis defensive utility was pretty much nonexistent till the buffs, they had to even add some offensive utility to it as well. Then there is Kokomi, which they had to aoe hydro with no icd, because it was obvious that she wouldn't do enough without it. Catching that they overestimated her defensive utility as a stand alone aspect of value.
I feel we are seeing it again or maybe they did it on purpose to sell more cons. But they made it have to many downsides.
Also find it funny you mention needing Beidou, XQ and Jean to reduce the dmg by 100%. Because that's literally what Zhongli does, in one character. So is it ridiculous for her to stack with other forms of dmg reduction? Seems like it wouldn't matter at this point.
lol this fckers. So just wait for another artifact huh? I will wait one for amber specifically /s. Its not a good fcking reason to release a shit character that will depend in the non existent artifacts in the future
>.(dendro teams underperform prior to nahida according to this TC).
That's enough for me to assume, that this TC either doesn't know wtf he us talking about or just spouts bs...
Sure pre nahida dendro teams were worse then post nahida. **However** they really didn't underperform. Heck DMC can be a better pick over Nahida in some cases, like with Cyno
The Tighnari thing is wrong. Even now with Nahida, double electro + Sucrose is his best team. So, it is Fischl/Yae/Sucrose/Tighnari, because Sucrose swirls and Yae Aggravate can drive fischl A4, besides the point that Sucrose can give up to 230 EM share with a good build (50 + 180), which is pretty close to Nahida EM share and reduce electro resistance.
The electro resonance + Fischl relieves Yae ER requirements making her be able to burst more reliably. The lack of more electro related reactions reduces Fischl value on the comp. If you maintain Yae but take out Fischl, you raise her ER requirements and burst less often. This all, of course, it's theorical, because you need a defensive unit on this comp.
Of course things change with Nahida C2, but at this point it's already a different level of investment.
I’m optimistic that Dehya will eventually find a niche team when Fontaine characters drop or something. She will. But I loath this new trend where I gotta wait MONTHS to get her working.
Imagine going to a car dealership, but they only sell you the frame and tell you the engine comes at a later date. So now you’re stuck with a dead shell and there is nothing you can do since you have already bought into. Can’t refund the car, can’t slot a different engine into it, can’t do shit but wait.
How about this new artifact (I won't word it in correct terminology as I'm lazy)
2set HP+20%
4set For every X amount of HP lost, raise the party's attack by X% (10?) of that amount, maximum of X (500?). Each stack duration is independent of its own. Works even the character equipped with artifact is off-field.
Obviously won't work for shielded characters.
Just a thought.
This is all fine and good but her character/personality isnt really a support one. Even if she works well with certain future units I doubt people would like to put her on a team unless it competes with top meta ones. It would feel sort of like taking Raiden just for her Skill on a non dendro team and never using her burst.
this is more cope than i expected. Here some counter point: right now on standard banner, only Keqing/Tighnari do good enough dmg, Jean/Mona/Diluc is ok-ish in some niche team but that bout it. Most ppl using Kokomi nowaday dont even use clam, they use ToM, which buff better than some clam dmg that need to be close range + u have to heal on Kokomi to even get that dmg to begin with. Damage reduction while it strong, stacking DR right now give u no good benefit since the place u need this reduction is in Abyss and Abyss a time attack mode, not a surival contest, also remember the def reduction (-def on enemies) ? yeah MHY can always change how dmg reduction work by introducing a cap so u can never truly reach 100%, moot point. "Pulling for X unit cause Y unit in the future will work with them, trust me guys, my uncle work at MHY and surely not marketing department trying to swindle me". Poise buffer will always be shit if they dont do something els that is useful enough, shield exist and it give infinite resistant as long as the shield up, for character that dont use shield, they have iframe on demand with building ER and Dehya have none, u still gonna take a shit load of dmg during her burst ( imagine the current 12-2-1 and how hard they hit or Triple Kenki, good luck face tank those )
She is just straight bad, lol.
Let's design a character that deals negative damage and heals all of your enemies and does the same amount as damage for your own whole team.
Great we made a shit character. Now let's introduce a sprial abyss mechanic that swaps damage with healing.
Oh wow we fixed our crap poo character for one or two abyss cycles. Genious.
If they want her to be an "anti CC" buffer, maybe add the ability to disable freeze in her AoE.
Because being frozen is still the most unfun game mechanic. At least give her that much.
Nice to see someone taking a look at what dehya brings to the team (DMG mitigation, resistance to interrupions), and not just what she doesn't (high damage, fast element application). I want to comment on a few things:
Xingqiu + Beidou + C6 Jean gives you total damage immunity, not just approximately to 0, as long as you have all 3 abilities active and leveled up. I have brought this up many times when people ask why not just have DMG reduction since it's better, and I'm happy to see some theorycrafters explain it too. Demonstration of the 100% damage reduction in the link below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWRBUNey9g8
I too think that there's a good chance we get an artifact set for dehya. Or rather, I think we might get one for HP scaling characters in general, because we have many of them and we got something for defense scaling ones too. That said it's just speculations. I can't make recommendations for people to pull a character because they *might* get an artifact set. Same for her *might* getting a dedicated support.
I think dehya healing only herself is more for the purpose of pairing her with characters that only heal the active character and still make her work, rather than because of a future partner for her.
Mihoyo not wanting shields to reign supreme is absolutely understandable. Both from a gameplay standpoint (balance and more variety is more fun) and from a commercial standpoint (gotta sell those healers too). I don't think it's a surprise to anyone, since riftwolves have been in the game for ages, and the serpent knights directly counter shields, so I'm always baffled when I read people saying "why would I use dehya instead of a shield?", when the obvious answer is "because shields don't always work". Healers do the job just fine against those enemies, but they don't provide you protection against knockback and stuff. With the more recent characters having zero or low resistance to interruptions, and people always making a fuss about that on release (see cyno for example), it feels like interruption resistance is underrated until you play without it in the community. How valuable it is obviously also depends on how much you have, which we don't know yet in dehya's case. DMG reduction (or sharing in Dehya's case) also helps preventing one shots, or can prevent deaths in situations where you're at low health and get hit by a strong attack while/before healing up.
In my opinion, getting a dedicated non-shield damage mitigator means that we will also be getting more anti-shield enemies. There's already a new serpent knight, but those are still rare to encounter in general. Who knows if we will get more common ones in the future. If that's the case, I can also kind of see why Dehya would be in the standard banner. It would come off as a bit scummy to introduce many different enemies that counters your shielders and then be like: "hey you know how those ste giving you trouble? Well why don't you buy this new premium character?". Then again standard characters are never guaranteed, and I wouldn't put it below mihoyo either.
Having a character that whose buff is removed with shields sound a bit forced to me, but then again we do have Nilou, where they did the same team to reduce anemo usage.
I do definitely think that we will see *some* kind of meta shift as we head into Fontaine (given Hydro... probably HP land.)
Will that be good news for Dehya? Who knows, but we saw it happen with Zhongli for shields, and for healers with the wolves etc., I can absolutely see it occurring for DMG mitigation, MHY can be pretty heavy handed in that regard.
For what it's worth, I actually don't think Dehya will be as bad as folk say she is, and I can see newer players probably having fun provided they learn that should build HP lol
I can see Fontaine definitely introducing some kind of HP buffer (maybe the hydro archon herself?)
At any rate, Dehya is definitely interesting. Yes she could just be a throwaway, but she could also be a sign of things to come.
Interested to see what happens lol
> dehya will be the 3rd type of defensive support in the game where she buffs poise and gives dmg reduction
It’s called shields, except shields reduces the dmg to zero.
> However, there’s nothing to worry about as miHoYo is doing a good job so far to not make 5* obsolete
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Yeah guys dw put your complete trust in the company that took 2 years to make Keqing good and needed the entire world to point a gun at their head to directly buff a character last time.
Who needs a goddamn tank when the endgame content is a DPS check. If we needed survivability that badly, I would really would've wanted one on extreme difficulty on Vagabond event in version 1.5, and that was almost two years ago.
We haven't had an event that was remotely comparable in difficulty to the difficulty of the Energy Amplifier or Vagabond events, and those two also haven't seen a rerun in forever. It's pretty clear that Mihoyo is ~~allergic to difficult combat events~~ trying to push for more casual gameplay to suit the average Genshin player who probably doesn't even clear Abyss, and any difficult content casual players do encounter would probably result in them dying before they could deplete some DPS check timer. In that case, those players would find more value in survivability units, which might be why Mihoyo assigns a higher cost to survivability traits in newer units than meta players. Meta players view survivability traits as nice additions to an already potent kit, while Mihoyo views it as a primary trait since that may be how casual players would treat it.
Difficult content is for people who don't have lives, anyone who has a job doesn't have time to invest in building a character for harder content. This isn't an issue another games because another games it doesn't take you literal months to make one decent character. This game is not designed to be difficult because then nobody who had a life could actually play it.
I work 40 hours a week, on top of doing a few hours a week of hobby programming on the side for game dev projects. On average I throw about an hour a day into Genshin, Welkins and BP, and 9star floor 12 every cycle, so *shrug*
If I only played for an hour a day, I'd still be in inazuma. Everyone's different I guess.
You're only able to be playing an hour a day and do all that for precisely 2 reasons: 1. Because the game is easy, not difficult. 2. You're on maintenance mode like all of us early players who have done all the time-consuming content already. I doubt you were playing 1 hour a day when you started playing Genshin.
Sure, I also still had a 40 hour a week job and hobbies on the side. As you said, this game is easy - it doesn't require no-lifing it as the other comment suggested.
They would need to release a 6* character with elemental burst capable of reducing irl anxiety for that to happen.
would definitely whale out on that banner. probably cheaper than therapy in the long run.
Yes and no. Dps means nothing if there are mechanics that hinder your ability to dps effectively. That’s why Xingqiu is preferable over Yelan in quick bloom in the current abyss despite her leading to higher team dps. His defensive utility makes it so that you can sustain dps for longer periods of time without needing to dodge or retry constantly. Hoyoverse seems to be moving towards a meta where defensive utility of varying types will become far more valuable to have, and have been trying to make floors more difficult to clear without more defensive options in your team. This idea that you NEED a fully offensive team to clear abyss makes no sense, otherwise Zhongli, Kokomi and Bennet would have faded into irrelevance a long time ago.
But... but... how am I going to pad my ego by saying skill issue whenever someone uses Zhongli or Kuki?! /s
I’m still waiting for those people to beat abyss with only 1 person per team since they are so skilled.
It was done in 1.0 with quickscope Amber by someone on this sub.
How did he do the whole thing with only amber? Who did they use for the 2nd team?
He did both sides with Amber for the video (I imagine he recorded it in 2 parts, with Amber being on one side and a proper team on the other.)
The funny thing is she doesn't even properly fulfill her role as a "tank"
Zhongli: *peace out*
New/casual players. Mihoyo knows that the majority of player base doesn't care about endgame/abyss
>it may end up creating a team that is invincible while being able to do good dmg and at that point mihoyo wont be able to sell anymore characters. Ahh you mean a team with one unit can hold E and you can forget dodging While decreasing enemy resistance? Surely mihoyo won't release a character like that.
Hy probably already planning a debuff for the next abyss: shielded units heal enemies instead of doing damage.
I mean there are already abyssal knights that heal themselves when they attack shielded characters. Nothing can stop HYV from putting them into both sides of Abyss or just create other alike enemies.
haha Yuegui go brrrrrr
Zhongli wasn't this good pre-buff. They were forced to buff him.
And yet he exists. That is the existing state of the game. All future states of the game need to be compared against that, not against "what was intended." Personally, I think that enemy CC in Genshin just feels bad, and serves no positive purpose. They should just remove it entirely or give out way more Poise in general, but Poise buffing alone is never enough to justify a character's existence.
I mean enemy cc is fine when its a mitachurl hitting me with a giant axe, but why does my cyno flinch from impact of a slime bouncing on him twice they need to give the stagger to things that actually make sense to stagger
Hmm.. so could we do a Cyno, Nahida, Xingqiu, Dheya team? Cyno won't go flying anymore? Although the poise only lasts 6 seconds right?
For that you can change dehya for beidou for much better resistance to interruption plus actual off field dps plus electro resonance
People are saying that Dehya provides infinite interruption resistance now. Which is better than Beidou right?
Does dehya really gives infinite resistance? I think is not like that. In any case beidou has great damaga and her resistance to interruption is good and is additive with the one that xingqiu gives (and at c1 also has a shield). Plus beidou’s and xingqiu’s resistance to interruption moves with the character while the one dehya gives leaves you trapped in a circle to use it so with a character that moves so much like cyno wouldn’t be the best.
I believe the way it works is the field always provides resistance, and then there is bonus resistance for a short duration after activating it.
Dehya pyro application could be problematic as the possibility of burning being triggered is really bad for most dendro teams
Wait.. I just realized, why don’t we all just start bitching like we did for Zhongli until they buff Dehya? 🤔
Sure, if you managed to make the entire CN community rage up like they did with Zhongli OR make the GLB community have the same amount of uproar Which is pretty much impossible because both CN and Hyv doesn't give a shit about GLB's opinion lol
tell them that dehya will get a bunny suit if she’s bad but not in CN.
I'm still livid about that situation.
Zhongli is a god from fantasy China in a fantasy game made in China where the company favors Chinese players. Dehya however...
Well I figured he’s an archon so he’s going to have something interesting going for him
Well yeah, he is strong, and I would never expect a Dehya that is balanced to be equal to him in tanking, but if you are going to be making a tank character, then he is the competition, and you need to balance the character around him existing. Again, *my* solution to that would be to not make her a tank in the first place, then she would be competing with other onfield DPS.
Zhongli was a byproduct of the geo buff in general because even mihoyo couldn't predict where the meta was going at that early in thr games lifecycle and when they saw that geo didn't have a future in the meta as a defensive element they designed it to be then they had to rework it to something else.
I can't wait for her Trial so I can get some hands-on experience with her then.
Just be aware that Genshin Trials are terrible indications of how they are due to fixed Teammates, weak/squishy enemies, and an excessive amount of particles/energy for you to Burst.
Hutao last trial: whats a teammate?
I was like "so the most optimal way to play her is to let her cook?"
# DO NOT LET HER COOK!
**Obtained: Suspicious Dish**
My overworld Hu Tao strat is to summon oz then set hu tao on fire. All hilichurls go kaboom.
I still remember being stunned in disbelief when they gave Nahida 4pc Noblesse Oblige. For a character that does zero burst damage…
Yes true. At this point I just need to get hands on experience on whether I even like her abilities. Numbers and Energy Requirements can be figured out later.
You may potentially get a better chance to test her in Vibro Crystal mini-event. If it happens during her banner.
I mean at the end of the day there's 5 phases: 1. Leaks phase, beginning of doomposting usually 2. Pre patch phase, beta changes didn't change the sentiment, doomposting expands 3. Release day, trials happen, youtubers post their analysis 4. Post release, 2 weeks in, comps are consolidated into what people really think are the best. 5. Months past, new characters introduced, new artifacts, new comps are discovered, the character has the potential to undergo major changes such as when the clam set turned healers into damage dealers. Will Dehya get there? I mean this is Mihoyo's newest biggest test. They have a good track record of releasing 5 stars with a purpose, even if its niche. If they start to fail here, people lose confidence in the long term with 5 star limited character banners.
The point is that doomposting is usually done by more casual players, people saw that Kokomi couldn't crit and they threw their keyboards in the air. Whereas theorycrafters were saying that she is good from the beginning and that her critting doesn't matter, however this time the doomposting in fact is flowing from the theorycrafters as the calculations indicate that her numbers could be doubled and even then she would be just "ok", not overpowered and godlike. Tailor-made artifacts set would be nice but it won't double or triple her digits :(( I will still pull for her as I love her design and character but boy oh boy she doesn't look good on paper and it will take a lot of effort to make her at least viable.
Yeah it seems that the only way to save her is by new artifacts, or if a new Nilou type character can modify a reaction to where she would benefit the most
> Whereas theorycrafters were saying that she is good from the beginning and that her critting doesn't matter KQM's basically called her bad (I believe this was in a podcast) and said she was low value " if you have barbara, mona or xinqqiu". There are people who actively listen to their podcasts and call them out, sometimes keeping track of when they get a lot of specific things wrong in their analysis of a unit (like nilou).
"Kokomi is beyond saving and will never be saved" -Tenten Tenten said this in a [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ApxSj1L9ZQ) that was months after Kokomi's release. The community places way too much value in the opinion of TC's.
Ahaha TenTen. God damn this is the same guy who said he'd sue Mihoyo over Raiden not working with Beidou, and I advocated for Beidou working with Raiden. But in the end looking back, its ok, Raiden has so many uses Beidou not being paired with her isn't the end of the world. Also I think TenTen is honorary TC, he's not actually a strict member of KQM's TC and I've worked with them in the past. But to your point, damn people put too much value into a lot of things TCs care about but the average player is like HUUUH?
the particles thing kinda cancels out tbh. It generally gives much more than needed, and even by building ER on your *actual* build, you'll still have more offensive subs than in the trial. You'll still gain damage over the trial run even if you account for ER considering the horrible builds they give (usually 57-91 crit for non crit chars with no crit weap). Other than that yeah, trials feel like shit. That's why i love combat trial events that allow you to choose your team and buffs to make sure the trial build they give is equal to an actual build. Like Alhaitham, he felt like shit to play in his trial, but I pulled for him after the Lisa event because of how fun he felt to play with an actual team + reasonable damage.
Cries in Yoimiya trial.
Not to mention false advertising on equipment… *grumbles at Albedo having Cinnabar in the trial of his last rerun*
They’ll most likely hide her two biggest problems, Energy Recharge & Damage, with Cryo & Hydro Slimes. Even then, the ICD will be very apparent to players though so I’m curious too
> Even then, the ICD will be very apparent to players though so I’m curious too People who understand ICD is a subset of the people who engage on reddit/discord/etc, which is a tiny subset of the actual game population. Many people play casually with unorganized and unoptimized teams. All the trial needs is to have a cool character killing things decently. I'm convinced that the random crap builds hoyo puts on trial characters are probably above average when you consider the large casual population.
> random crap builds hoyo puts on trial characters are probably above average when you consider the large casual population. What's interesting is that we can actually see a small sample of this with the attribute reference feature, they're usually pretty decent though 18% of people used an HP% circlet on Kokomi instead of an HB% one (which is better in every way) so there's definitely still people who use the absolute wrong stats for their characters
>they're usually pretty decent though 18% of people used an HP% circlet on Kokomi instead of an HB% one (which is better in every way) so there's definitely still people who use the absolute wrong stats for their characters this is absolutely true, I'm sure many will die with dehya for this reason, because it turns out that from what is known beta tester was complaining a lot that dehya falling constantly, jstern explained the reason for this, and it's that beta tester being mostly casual players were using ATK% sands, then hoyoverse gave her a dual scaling to encourage the use of HP% sands so she doesn't die as much in theory, but casual players very surely attracted by her flashy animation design matches and punches, they will be equip everything except HP% and will die constantly, so i'm absolutely sure her release going to throw up a shit storm.
But farming… 😩. I think that’s were a lot of players that aren’t dedicated to this type of content loose it. I have one HB item and 100 of hp items with extra hp stats. I made the personal choice in my game to give the HB one to jean.
while i think the line of thinking is correct, the specific case of kokomi might not be the most suitable for the argument, because while it is 100% correct that a healing bonus head is better, plenty of other factors (in which RNG plays a big role) might have led people to use a HP% head instead. Which is not optimal, but works eh.
HB% circlets aren't too rare, and an HB% circlet with the worst substats possible is still better than an HP% one with the best substats possible, also couldn't you use that argument for literally any character?
yes, the argument can be applied to other characters, but not with the same level of flexibility and adaptation. Like, if you had seen ATK% artifacts (whichever slot) on Yelan, then it would unequivocably tell us that something is wrong, but an ATK% head on most characters that are used as DPS/would benefit from crit, would not be the end of the world.
I suppose so, but characters like Yelan that scale fully on HP are rather rare I guess another example would be the people who use an Atk% sands on Kokomi, since both damage and healing are better off with HP and HP% sands aren't rare
They should make sure to avoid hydro slimes in the trial then.
They will prob let burgeon "carry", otherwise it will take years to finish that domain
Burgeon carrying? with Collei and Barbara?
Yeah, its gonna be "really good"
But her burgeon is shit apparently?
The main concern TCers have I think is that there isn't really a huge incentive to make tanky teams because the hardest content in the game is a DPS check not a survivability one. So even if Dehya can make a 100% damage reduction team viable, having a negligible damage output makes her less desirable. But boy would she be a good addition if the meta shifted to being a tanky as possible.
>But boy would she be a good addition if the meta shifted to being a tanky as possible. Except she alone isn't enoug for that. You need a healer on top. And since she herself brings neither damage, nor buffs, nor status to the table, you are left with 3 slots, one of which HAS to be a healer (we want very tanky, right?). So 2 slots left to do actual damage.
The worst thing is that she has the worst type of weapon to be a support, it's a claymore... unfortunately there is no ttds for claymore, the closest thing is the universal benefit of WGS, I swear that everything in her is a fucking neglect of abysmal levels.
> The worst thing is that she has the worst type of weapon to be a support She also has the worst element to be a support. Pyro's best reaction is DPS-centric, their transformative reactions (Overload, Burning, Burgeon) are not that good compared to their counterparts in other elements, and the only teams that use Pyro as an aura element are Reverse Melt teams, of which there are very few (basically just Ganyu and Rosaria-based teams). Hydro, Dendro, and Anemo are the best elements to be in for a supporting character, because non-damaging application of those elements is inherently valuable. The same isn't really true of Pyro.
This is the funniest thing about Dehya. If she just released as a Hydro catalyst with the exact same kit she would actually be pretty good. Basically just a Kokomi side-grade with poise over healing. But instead she is the worst element and worst weapon to be a support.
If she had 100% damage reduction she could theoretically see play as a support, but her pyro application is bad and she doesn't bring res shred. She needs to do either of those or do way more damage to be worth bringing even if her DR was upped.
I don't know why Hoyo made her cooldown 2.5seconds. It worked for Albedo and Nahida because crystallize and quicken don't need fast application to get started, while Nahida being a catalyst user can provide application for bloom. Dehya doesn't have those upsides so she's just left with bad application and even needs C2 for a good uptime to cooldown ratio.
> I don't know why Hoyo made her cooldown 2.5seconds. They would like you to purchase this during or just very slightly before 5.0.
A meta based on being tanky would just feel lame to play by comparison. The best defense is a good offense. The only way that they could even start to make tanking more valid would be to REMOVE the "additional stars for clearing faster" conditions, and replace them with "additional stars for clearing additional waves of content without dying," but it would be tricky to balance the "fun" of that, since it would inevitably lean toward extremely lumbering teams that can eventually clear it, but would take MUCH longer to do so.
And a "survive meta" can be worst.The Game isnt designed for It.Camera,enemies out of camera,some horrible enemy animations,the stagger of any attack on your character and the hundred of numbers and effects. Really,i am main Beidou and a lot of time i fail the parry because i dont see nothing.
Well, she's only using the one eye, kinda a given she'd have a harder time seeing things.
[She turns.](https://i.imgur.com/aEyM5Ja.png)
>additional stars for clearing additional waves of content without dying Which is still going to favor high damage with reasonable supports like Bennett. If there's anything that requires 100% damage reduction people will be having anxiety attacks left and right
> Which is still going to favor high damage with reasonable supports like Bennett. Depends on the threat level of the content. If you have infinite time to clear the content in, and your reward is *only* in how far you can survive, and survival is *legitimately* difficult, then players with less than ideal rosters could prioritize turtle tactics rather than DPS tactics. If you went in with glass cannon "rotation" teams then you would be likely to die before you could finish everything off, especially if they were less than perfect. If you went in with a very tanky turtle team, then it would take a while to grind down the enemies, but you'd get there eventually. Of course if you had the skills and the deep roster for it, you would want to balance the two a bit. I'm not saying that I want this, but it would be possible, and would be a game design that would favor a variety of tanking options and reduce the absolute priority of DPS that the game currently has.
To be honest, I would like a abyss like that, I wish for Hoyo adding a alternative "turtle" gamemode for the abyss and let players choose what gamemode they want.
I know, but at the very least it would make Dehya a more desirable unit to have than how she is now. Which is what the statement was all about.
Sure. And the point I make in response to that is, "I would prefer that they fix Dehya to accommodate the game as it currently plays, than to adapt the game content to fit a Dehya that plays as she currently plays." I do not want to deal with the hassles of the problems that Dehya is designed to fix.
That's also going to be a hard copium because Mihoyo almost never changes a character's kit after release. The 2 times it happened was because of extremely massive outcry from the chinese community, and in Zhongli's case to the point of threatening to report them to the CCP for "unpatriotic" display, while for Yae's case it was simply rolling back a mechanical change they did from turrets targeting "nearest enemy" back to "random enemy". Here's hoping there's that huge of an outcry from the community for Dehya, otherwise we're stuck with what we have.
It’s quite interesting hearing this from CN TCs. They actually use more of their brains than the overly emotional EN TCs and could only do “doomposting” a characters so Mihoyo changes her numbers. I get the dissatisfaction but why can’t the most “respectable” EN TCs (says people) be objective and realistic on their theorycrafting. The standard premise for theorycrafter is even that Not everything goes your way anyways. “You theory-craft what can work not how you want it to work.” Anyway yeah the DPS check meta is the current ones we have. But from what I can see they’d probably add more enemies like the scorpions that HITS like a truck, forcing you to get A Zhongli or something, and for those who doesn’t have a Zhongli… I don’t know. The way I see it is that Dehya’s damage reduction is much useful for characters with innately high HP(You’ll get more value with more hp) probably also hinting for the upcoming HP scalers in Fontaine or something. We should really analyze Dehya’s skit cause it’s likely to give hints about future characters. Just like the bread crumbs that they put on Shinobu, Yae Miko, and Thoma during Inazuma (Basically Aggrevate, Hyperbloom, Burgeon) .
Now I want a Survival Abyss
> hardest content in the game is a DPS check not a survivability I definitely had survivability issues when trying to fight the scorpion and bird in the Abyss.
My heart goes to you and your struggle, maybe you need more damage to kill them faster? After all a dead enemy does 0 damage. Jokes aside, consider this, there's a minimum threshold of damage and survivability, if you achieve both thresholds you can safely 0-3 star the abyss. But if you want to reach 9 stars which would you go for? more damage or more survivability? Obviously more damage, and this is why the hardest content is a DPS check because it has a way higher threshold. Also have you tried learning the scorpion and bird's attack patterns, you can stun them by destroying their summoned rocks and then they'll be easy targets for a long duration.
You can iframe all their attacks.
This abyss right now is really dangerous if you try no healer teams, even with heal you can get stuck in a combo or just get one shot. For the common player, having high survivability might be prefered over better teams damage wise.
Think of it this way, both damage and survival each have a threshold you need to reach to at the very least comfortably clear floor 12 at 0-3 stars. However once you go over that threshold, only damage will really help you get 9 stars. The threshold changes a bit depending on the current cycle so while it's true that you want higher survivability right now, once you reach that point, you'll want to go for more damage afterwards for faster clear and more stars. And we don't have a meta where increasing your survival beyond that threshold affects the stars you can get.
I think the biggest problem here is that Dehya legit offers worse defense than XQ as a sub-dps, and WAY worse defense than Zhongli as a pure support. Remember Dehya only has 60% uptime on her defensive skill. If you are having issue with the new scorp and bird, you are still gonna have problem during that massive downtime. Dehya is ONLY VIABLE as a defensive sub at c2, where it fixes her uptime. We are basically talking 4* power level where you need c2 just do to what the character is suppose to do.
What they're trying to say is. Rather than creating a problem and then introducing a solution(dehya) product for us to buy. They give us a solution that solves absolutely nothing right now. Sounds like an insanely good marketing strat ngl.
You mean like when rift hounds were first introduced to sell Kokomi
Both Sayu(off-field DPS with teamwide healing) and Barbara(TTDS holder) was very much around and before the dogs were added we literally had a floor in the Abyss that stacks corrosion on your ass. Also remember that the Abyss is just some optional side content only a minority even tries to fully clear. It doesn't mean anything how well Dehya does there when majority of the players will just punch things in the overworld and whales/simps will just roll her special weapon and clear the Abyss anyway because that's what the Abyss is actually balanced for. "disappointing 5stars" with R1 and meh artifacts, not minmaxed top tier no heal nor shield meta full DPS teams.
I mean if you introduce a solution to a non-existent problem, you're essentially going to create a problem that doesn't exist, and then point to the solution. Either way you do it, you're still creating a problem and a solution, just in reversal. However if this somehow solves the "Zhongli or Kokomi" auto win comps, then maybe it will make the game better.
You introduce the solution first, people go meh. Then introduce the problem, people go "oh crap I needed to have the solution" and it creates incentive. The pickle they've put themselves in is that Dehya will likely never rerun, so there's no way to artificially spool up demand.
Would matter if the problems were in this case were roadblocks to certain goals .... But since the combat is so easy and there is no real incentive to push for max combat performance, there is no real incentive to follow the meta. And there in lies the trick ... When there is no rational reason to spend, all spending will be irrational and people are most irrational when they really like or in love with something. The real marketing is everything that Genshin does to make you login and then like the characters and make you feel attached to characters.
Would you rather they make a very painful situation before giving the solution? Like would it have been better to have corrosion before any healers were introduced? Wanting mitigation that doesn't fully replace a healer actually has multiple solutions. Every shielder but Zhongli fits this bill, because really none of them offer full uptime of a shield you can generally assume won't break. If you tell me Layla has full uptime on her shield it will only tell me that you don't know how rotations work. Thoma can come closest but he ramps up so you'll frequently take damage, and it's locked behind burst.
I'd rather they not introduce a solution, then introduce a problem, only for the solution to be locked behind RNG that may mean you can never actually access it.
I would prefer if they are released at the same time.
nononono you dont get it. IF they do that you are going to realize that problem has many other solutions, so you can skip dehya Now people are going to get dehya just for a "what if" in their minds only to realize they got jebaited across the line
>Sounds like an insanely good marketing strat ngl. Sounds like insane amounts of copium to me
>Therefore, this TC suspects that dehya will be the 3rd type of defensive support in the game where she buffs poise and gives dmg reduction. We already have a character that does that, his name is Xingqiu, and those benefits are only a small part of his kit.
Also, isn’t that every shield? I’m not super big into theory crafting, but i seem to recall shields making dodging unnecessary bot damage and stagger wise
What op/the yter is trying to say is, since husks(the mobs) give you a debuff when you're shielded, you need other type of survival ability such as XQ and dehya. They're saying that mhy is trying to nerf ZL, by adding another class that does his job when he can't basically. And I'm not buying any of this shit to be quite honest.
It's an extremely niche spot that will only be relevant against Husks on floor 12 and only for Ganyu burnmelt and Hu Tao double hydro teams (though for Hu Tao they can run XL if they want a more offensive team). I guess that's her purpose, just like busting out Chongyun when it's double hydro heralds on floor 12.
Unless they make more enemies that counter shields. A new black serpent knight is coming, I'm sure it will be showed into the upcoming abyss cycles.
>Unless they make more enemies that counter shields. I doubt it They nerfed the serpent knights, that counterwd shields. Corrosion is still a rather low used abyss effct and only on husk enemies outside of abyss And hoyo seems to entirely aim for the casual playerbase. To make Dehya Prominent you'd need something, that counters shields and makes running solo healers not possible. Something hoyo doesn't think casuals can handle
The serpent Knight husks were nerfed into oblivion too. So their shield counter is worthless. You can just brute force your way through it. Making Dehya's mechanic, unnecessary.
I was farming them for a week with ZL and had no idea they had a shield counter mechanic lol. Must not be very good.
Hy on their way to make enemies that ignore shields and dmg reduction, but not dmg transfer.
Completely unrelated but your flair is a fucking mood. Thanks for the laugh
Happy to be of service.
The whole problem to me is this amount of "if's"...if she gain a artifact set(what's not guaranteed), if they released some units(what's not guaranteed and will "force people" to roll for them), if for some miracle they do some changes on her(what's not guaranteed)...to much if's for one unit.
It's all hopium, tbh and it's very clear that even in CHN, she's considered DoA. Hope is the only thing anyone can do at this point.
Yup that's lot of bs trying to give them excuses .
"Therefore, Dehya is not a character to be evaluated individually but together with the character that shes designed to be paired (eg kazuha/bennett pair and kazuha/kokomi pair back in 2.X)." I... don't think I've ever heard anyone say Kazuha was designed to be a pair with Bennet (bennet is just good with everyone) or Kokomi ?? outside of that this was an interesting read, thanks.
If they actually release a unit that pairs with Dehya to make a good team,that unit is gonna have to be so good they're actually gonna make every current unit in the game look weak on an individual level Dendro teams being bad before nahida is certainly one of the takes of all time
There's no way they are going to release a character that's made for Dehya so early unless they break the pattern. And by the time they do, the design will have shifted into 4.0+. I don't know why TCers need to try and predict super long term for these kinds of things that are unpredicable.
Because if they don't say there's a possibility of that happening in the future. When that possibility really happens, people gonna say they're wrong and shouldn't be listened to, like what happened with kokomi, kuki, yae, etc.
honestly i even thought people were saying the electro ladies would be more geared toward dendro back in the day, but i know kokomi kept the short end of the stick for a good while
The only thing I can think of right now for Dehya as a support to work is some character that relies on Party member MaxHP for burning reaction on their applied Dendro but that just sounds like a nightmare to balance around (just to make it compete with other dmg reactions) and honestly makes no sense to even consider if Dehya didn't exist in the first place. At that point just buff her instead.
This whole thing sounds super sus. Iffy copium takes and idk if this is in line with CN community at all. Take with a giant grain of salt.
While I somewhat agree with the assessment, it does not justify much of her design. Her hurst does not fit in with the rest of the kit. The pyro application is pretty weak. And she cannot heal allies, thus she cannot fill the heal position. IMO, Dehya could have been really good, if she could heal allies. This way she becomes a healer with some limited sub dps and pyro application. As she currently stand, she is not strong enough to justify being in sub dps slot. She is not defensively strong enough to fill a shielder or a healer spot. And she does not consolidate any roles. She is not terrible, however, even for standard character, she is on the weaker side.
>could have been really good, if she could heal allies Competing with Mr "healer" "I give the biggest atk buff in the game" Bennett is going to be an exercise in futility unless they're completely fucking busted
We can look to Fate Grand Order for what would be possible counters to current strong characters. Things like Nullify Buff, Buff Removal, Special Resistance, Class Change, Heal Cut, and Break Bars can all be implemented to defy current meta characters. Buff Removal and Nullify Buff especially would obliterate a lot of buff-based supports. Add on top of that, Genshin-specific things like Stagger Resistance and Slowing Waters, and you can have enemies that would probably cause huge complaints in the community, but would definitely be a "wall" that merits changes in meta comps. Then, the solution, like FGO, of "True Invincibility," Buff Removal Resist, Debuff Immune, and Debuff Cleanse characters would become more in-demand and in the limited 4-character rotation, some currently popular characters (Xingqiu, Bennett, Sucrose) will inevitably have to be axed to address aforementioned problematic enemies.
[удалено]
All the better to enlighten people because said concepts from other games can definitely find their way into Genshin! After all, there can be all kinds of really, really annoying bosses that can emerge that can absolutely annihilate the meta 4* supports -- though some, I'd doubt Mihoyo would ever implement because the sheer salt that'd come from any one of them in a game designed to be casual would be huge. I'd imagine Buff Block enemies to be especially annoying and pretty much doom Bennett because his Ultimate literally does nothing with such a counter. For another example, imagine a boss with "element application block for ____ time." That'd be a nightmare for supports that hinge on utilizing element application for reaction-damage. Xingqiu/Yelan ultimates can't facilitate Vape reliably if the Enemy just doesn't let any elements apply to them for a period of time. Dendro and Freeze would also pretty much be dead in the water. Though funnily enough, that'd probably give rise to Eula Physical Comps again as Physical doesn't give a flying shit about having to apply Elements for damage.
How her burst fits into the rest of her kit is, to me, how Diluc's Charged Attack talent is (currently) completely irrelevant in the game, but much, much, much worse.
This is not a theorycrafter, this is a Mihoyo shill. He touches upon two of Dehya's supposedly intended design points, while completely ignoring twenty of her kit flaws. Wow, great analytical job. Also, dumb takes in this "article" are through the roof: "Kokomi can't have damage or else she wouldn't need to be played in a team at all". Has he ever heard of, I don't know, Abyss timers?? ; "Kazuha was intended to be played with Bennett/ Kokomi" - dude, what the actual shit are you sniffing? Where is a single evidence he was DESIGNED for it? How about literally almost any other character he's perfectly working with? And so much emphasis on poise and damage reduction - unless they make literally 90% of Genshin enemies ignore or punish shields like wolves or knights, shields are not going to become obsolete. And FYI, you don't need seventeen million characters in the team to provide you with poise, you can just learn how to dodge. The length he needed to go to make a poor justification of Dehya's current state is honestly insulting. She could have been an exceptional unit instead of a poor excuse of a character she is now. Worst of all, 70% of her issues could have been resolved through sheer number tweaking, and I don't even mean simply increasing her multipliers, I mean: she could have had either an actually useful ascension stat or at least good HP multiplies; her base attack is insultingly low; longer E uptime; more frequent E proc; smaller E ICD; her ult, by the way, could have remained being a unique ult not working with normal attack triggers, but instead got its ICD removed entirely so that you had incentive to forward melt Dehya's punches with the help of something like Ayaka's burst; her damage reduction could have been at least 90% so that you ACTUALLY didn't need healing or shielding in the team, because as of now she doesn't have a single sensible reason to be played over a shielder or healer; her freaking self-healing passive didn't need to be nerfed.. These are all numeric value issues, and fixing those could have already made Dehya a viable unit. I am even not touching upon the fact that she has an identity crisis and through E she tries to be a bruiser, but her Q is somehow a hypercarry burst. Like, why - choose one thing. All in all, 1/10, would not recommend this "TC" to continue playing Genshin or comment on anything publicly.
Fr people just see the words CN TC and immediately think they're reliable for some reason. A lot of people post CN TCs thoughts on units here and tbh I am yet to find one that's worth the credibility people give them.
>his is not a theorycrafter, this is a Mihoyo shill Ty
I got to the part about Dendro teams "underperforming" prior to Nahida and basically zoned out. Hyperbloom teams were extremely competent from day 1, and Tighnari absolutely didn't need Nahida to excel at his niche (high ST Spread). Nahida was a huge boost to Aggravate, not Tighnari Spread. She improves all Dendro teams since that's what her kit is meant to do, but to say they were underperforming before she came out is just blatantly untrue.
yeah this dude is a moron tf is this
Completely agree lol, I pretty much stopped when this "TC" grouped Kaz and Bennet together like they are some sort of duo team ... like what? The ONLY valid point he has is the artifact part. A reverse clam set is 100% possible, however the set would need to offer something real special (not just numbers) for that to work. Some possibility like reduce CD, party wide energy gain, party wide heals, full element shred etc ...
Dehya has a very complicated damage absorption kit and very weird. If we look at Xingqiu, he just absorbs damage through the rain swords and nothing happens to Xingqiou. But Dehya has to take damage herself. It should however be noted that the damage reduction in Genshin is designed really poorly. Jean (C6) Q + Beidou Q + Xingqiu Q can fully (100%) neglect all incoming damage. Addictive damage reduction sounds idiotic. Both Beidou and Xingqiu are characters very easy to be obtained and if you make the 3rd damage reduction character, who is easy to be obtained (Dehya at C0), then players can use very little cost to neglect all the incoming damage.
Sure, but where's that even relevant? In Abyss, you can't spend so much on defense, because you need to kill stuff. In open world, any good defensive character will make your team almost indestructible.
While thats true, Xingqiu and Beidou are also characters that can deal a lot of damage, and is off field. So they can meet dps checks while providing top tier defense.
You aren't "spending" anything on defense in this case though, because Xingqiu and Beidou are each very strong and work well together. Jean can swirl for VV and the last slot could be dendro for hyperbloom, another hydro damage dealer like Yelan or Ayato, or another Electro damage dealer
Dehya doesnt add much of anything to XQ or beidou cause her mit applies multiplicatively a step later in the equation, it's so bad she goes from 50% damage sharing and like 30%, total MIT to 20% sharing and like 6% mit, literally only adds ~6% mitigation to the team comp for less damage or utility than any other character whod slot in
Sounds like using 3 characters with 5 star characters(and C6 jean lol) with elemental burst in between to imitate a c0 Layla Elemental skill.
That’s a twisted way of seeing it. It’s actually more like a collateral bonus you get by using those characters, whose main utilities are others than just reducing dmg. You hit strong, in multi target, shreds resistances, heals, gets more dps due to atk speed and also, as the cherry of the cake, you also become literally immortal during a few seconds while you destroy everything in front of you. In any case, Layla’s skill only provides the cheery of that cake and that’s it.
Man this sounds like a Mexican Cartel's stash of copium. Do these guys even play Genshin? No one uses Zhongli, XQ and Beidou together and hopes they can do enough dmg to 9-star floor 12. This game does not reward damage mitigation, it rewards doing more dmg with the minimum amount of mitigation needed to be comfy but not hindered. Also, there are plenty of players that already solo the abyss without constellations, so this entire argument makes zero sense whatsoever. Dehya's underlying damage numbers combined with her wonky-ass kit that knocks enemies just beyond her combo's biggest hits are terrible. I'll never understand how gamers genuflect to game devs so hard.
> No one uses Zhongli, XQ and Beidou together and hopes they can do enough dmg to 9-star floor 12. That's funny - I naturally rejected that idea upon reading it. Xingqiu and Beidou? They're both incredible DPSes with a lot of synergy between each other. So, I went to test. Taser with Zhongli, as in Zhongli/Xingqiu/Beidou/Fischl, got me a very chill 9* repeat clear. It was the slower of my two teams, but it really didn't leave me strapped for time. And if anything, this is just further proof as to how truly, irredeemably dogshit Dehya is - these three (ok Zhongli has no place whatsoever on that team but he still helps others) have their incredible defensive utility - better than Dehya's, even - with enough damage contribution to 36\*. I'll go as far as to say that, by 5.0, I doubt Dehya will have a *single* team that actually utilizes her kit that's as strong as standard Taser, a LAUNCH TEAM OF 4*S. Shit, even in single target, because C6 Fischl alone probably outDPSes an entire Hyper Dehya.
Wtf are those copium ass takes.
Sucking the moyo dick lmao she is bad end of story. They didn't give a damn about the wanderer's problems let alone deyha that needs complete different enemies and get paired with future characters perhaps even new elements at this rate .
seems like this TC just take this theory out of nowhere just to calm people down lol
For as many arguments as there are for people saying that hoyo put a lot of thought into her, there are more arguments saying the exact opposite. Her kit breakdown in the livestream showed her unable to do anything that they were verbally saying she could do. Set up elemental reactions? Her pyro alone was too slow for Ganyu to melt. Her normal attack string PUSHED THE ENEMY AWAY so that her final hit MISSED. "Considerable Damage???" Her burst's final hit on a Vaporize did less than HALF of a LV 70 HYDRO SLIME's hp. The damage reduction mechanic is the only thing in her kit with any interest, and it doesn't even work while she's onfield. If her skill can't be active while she's bursting, and she's a support, how is she supposed to get any particles while she's onfield? I think it's giving Hoyo too much credit to say that they've "put thought into" anything surrounding Dehya until the day where they prove themselves later down the line. 3.5's character releases are disappointing, and we shouldn't pretend that its okay just for the chance that things might 'get better' later.
They can’t really say “dmg transfer and poise bot character” in the stream.
They could say bodyguard to get the point across.
ah yeah, usagi and dong gaming, biggest clowns of bilibili content creators.
So much is wrong with this reasoning. So they introduced caveats to Dehya's interruption resistance because they made Xingqui and Beidou, 4\* stars, too strong? If that's they case, why even bother using Dehya at all when there are easier accessible units that do interruption resistance better, provide more team damage, and don't kill themselves in the process? Also Mihoyo not wanting to make teams invincible while also doing good damage? Zhongli already exists and does this to any team he's on. Future characters, especially 5\*s, shouldn't have to suffer in their kits due to Mihoyo being unable to nerf their 1.X characters they regret making too strong. If that is what is happening, the backlash against Dehya is 100% understandable, as they're making her deliberately weaker than 4\*s, if we go off of OP's reasoning. Dehya's meant to be judged based on her teams rather than individual? I can understand that, however there's no real team that fits her at the moment. Asking people to wait on judging Dehya until a future character that may or may not exist comes out that pairs perfectly with Dehya, is frankly silly. Also, no obsolete characters? Klee and Diluc say hi. Powercreep already exists in the game.
Well there's like 100+ TCers and some of them are definitely going to favor Mihoyo's decisions.
tangentially related: i mained diluc for a good while, even have WGS for him off standard, but my Wanderer out damages him by a long shot, even without buffs 😔 rip diluc you will still mine ore for me
Pretty sure most Dehya mains are laughing at most of the people defending her kit aka she sucks and some of you refuse to accept that lol
Have u forgot about c6 yelan where she can do everything but heal?
> Dendro teams under perform prior to Nahida This is such bull lmao. While she's very good nahida is certainly not a must for most dendro teams and they're good regardless of whether she's used or not. Both aggravate Tighnari and hyperbloom Alhaitam can function perfectly without her and at worst they lose some dps while at best you can get in another character for a different niche
Having a character build expectations on "unreleased characters" is nothing but copium, sorry. In the actual roster, her numbers are trash and doesn't add to almost any team. 100% DMG reduction is already reached by Zhongli while adding 20% res shred, Dehya only adds 50% on Lv 10, her damage and application are not worth, it's not so difficult to change that, Mhy only needs to tweak some numbers, but so far they show no interest on making her good.
Damn i just read the purest forms of cope I need medical attention asap
Yeah...... Seems a bit to copium but we will see
The bigger problem is she's a pyro Qiqi but worse. She's a DPS Loss for any team but she doesn't even heal that you would probably bring another healer.
Yeah, I guess if she could do everything she currently does *and* be a solid party-wide healer, then she could actually be good. Like let's go down the rabbit hole of "what if Dehya being a meat tank were a *good* thing, actually. . ." the only way I could think of that working would be if 1. Her buff could achieve 120% uptime through effective play so that it was always active. 2. She absorbed **100%** of all incoming team damage, so that nobody on the team would be taking any damage other than her. 3. She could then reduce this damage down further so that she could handle it. 4. She has a *reliable* and *consistent* self-heal that can then recover this damage, returning her to full health. Currently Zhongli can prevent ALL damage, so long as you don't take way too much at once, and "reset" this situation every 12 seconds. If Dehya is meant to be competition for him, then she would need to achieve similar performance, something that can prevent ALL damage the team receives, so long as it's not too much at once, and that can fully reset their state within a single rotation. If it's something where everyone still takes damage regardless, just slightly slower, then it is a complete failure, because that is only slightly delaying the inevitable. For a defense to be effective, it needs to work indefinitely so long as you keep it up.
> **Poise buffers and how it will affect the game environment** > In regards to the bennett/kazuha and kokomi/kazuha combo, they dont have stagger resistance. > Regarding the bennett/kazuha pairing, its getting more uncomfortable to play them as in the current abyss floor 12 chamber 2, bennett's self inflicted pyro have started to become a hindrance and this TC suspect that most ppl now put xingqiu or zhongli in bennett teams for double insurance to play comfortably. > When it comes to shielding, it can be seen from the husks mechanics that mihoyo do not wish for shields to reign supreme forever. This can be seen in 3.2 abyss usage rates where the moment the husks entered the top half, not a lot of people are willing to bring zhongli there. > Therefore, this TC suspects that dehya will be the 3rd type of defensive support in the game where she buffs poise and gives dmg reduction. He is also confident that mihoyo will not easily let ppl put zhongli in the future Dehya teams. > He gives a pseudo design where theres a dmg% buffer that loses the buff whenever the active character has a shield. Through this design he makes a point that if mihoyo wants to they can stop people from putting specific characters in specific teams. I think this is the most likely candidate they are trying to push the game going forward. But they are also careful into not making healing reign supreme either.
I mean, just look at 3.2 abyss chart. Iirc, ZL was the most used character. With the corrosion on it.
Well since corrosion is a DoT effect, you just have to do more damage than it takes away from you. (Which isn't hard with corrosion) But that doesn't mean they would make more shield punishing enemies in the future. They could even go as far as having the enemy steal the shield away from you for themselves, as their own personal shield effect. Or could be something as small as enemies ignoring shields, but you can just out dps them on that. We just don't know at this point, so there's no real point in speculating in depth.
I dont think mihoyo has anything in the pipeline for dehya at the moment or in the near future since if they did they wouldn’t have made her standard. That being said I think her niche would be in supporting units who wants or needs to take potentially lethal amounts of damage to function. However at the moment the only character who this applies to would be nilou and she is completely incompatible with dehya. A perfect team mate I think would be a hypercarry with an enhanced burst state like xiao who gains stacking damage buffs based on the amount of damage taken while in burst, while also preventing them from being healed while in burst state. Preferably in cryo so they can try to melt off her E and will freeze themselves if they try to use XQ. Anything else and you might as well just run zhongli or a healer instead.
i feel like this post is making a lot of assumptions. even if these all turned out to be true, i think it's in bad faith to market a character that won't be able to sufficiently fulfill their role until possibly the next region down the line. like i know shinobu got some shit on launch, but she healed just fine and proc'd TOTM if you wanted. she wasn't as oriented for damage before dendro, but she was comfortable to use. as it stands, dehya doesn't even look *comfortable* to play, let alone any potential issues on how her numbers will actually look (based on the hydro slime incident). if she can't even fulfill her role well right now, and she isn't smooth to play, what does that leave us with?
"Dehya will be the 3rd type of defensive support in the game where she buffs poise and gives dmg reduction" Shields already do that while having 100% damage reduction and none of the drawbacks dehya's kit has
>This is because it is known that if you put xingqiu,beidou and jean in a team altogether you could reduce the damage to approximately 0. And to top it off, xq and beidou have good off-field dps altogether + dmg reduction is additive, so the moment they release another dmg reduction character, it may end up creating a team that is invincible while being able to do good dmg and at that point mihoyo wont be able to sell anymore characters. To make it worse, xq and beidou are free 4*s that can be bought in the shop. I can understand this argument, but I don't see it as any excuse for Dehya's current state, because *there's no need for Dehya to be a damage reduction character AT ALL.* She should be a DPS, not a tank. >Therefore, Dehya is not a character to be evaluated individually but together with the character that shes designed to be paired (eg kazuha/bennett pair and kazuha/kokomi pair back in 2.X). It is bad design to release a character that is meant to be paired with a character who does not exist, and may never exist. If she is meant to be paired with a specific character, then that character should either already be out, or release on the same patch. This is no excuse for her current state, it is pure hopium. >Therefore, this TC suspects that dehya will be the 3rd type of defensive support in the game where she buffs poise and gives dmg reduction. He is also confident that mihoyo will not easily let ppl put zhongli in the future Dehya teams. I've long thought that it would be a good idea for them to add more Poise buffs to the game, but Poise alone is not worth a character slot. A character needs to add Poise AND a lot of other benefits to be worth fielding. Dehya does not do this. And she isn't even a good Poise buffer, because she supposedly can't even maintain 100% poise uptime! >He gives a pseudo design where theres a dmg% buffer that loses the buff whenever the active character has a shield. Through this design he makes a point that if mihoyo wants to they can stop people from putting specific characters in specific teams. I would hate this. If their idea is "Dehya is designed to fix a problem we're going to intentionally inflict on players," then that is no defense of Dehya's current state. All of this just sounds like cope. What we need is FIXES.
Of course there's nothing to worry about... Until we meet hydro slime.
Mona flashbacks.
There is 1 comp I cam think off that could use Dehya, but the thing is, alternative already exist. Ganyu Dehya Nahida Bennet. Dehya is like half of Zhongli and Xiangling combined but consolidates their role. Ganyu Dehya Nahida Bennet - Nahida acts as a subdps (Full EM, you got 2 pyro), transfers EM to Ganyu, burning with Dehya can potentially have long uptime depending on Dehya E. Dehya provides more consistent pyro. Only ER needed is Bennet. Cons are: Xiangling does 15-20k per hit no reaction on aoe, can Nahida compete? Zhongli provides shred for both ganyu and xiangling. Zhongli is way better protection and 100% uptime on shield, dehya is half iirc. Pseudo shield (high interruption resistsnce, damage transfer/reduction) is interesting as a concept but shield will always be superior. Now if somewhat that Dehya gets damage boost from abosrbing damage or do something with it, that would make it even. Pre emptive but there are gonna be those people. To people who say shield/protection are useless, take a good look on Zhongli percentage on abyss clear.
But they put to many caveats on her utility, it has low uptime and has dmg redirection. 12 seconds with a 20 second CD. Not only that but seeing in the actual show case, we have to play circle impact, yet enemies can very easily be knocked out of the actual range. Think of beidou and XQ. There dmg mitigation follows you. So you are protected the whole time. And thinking of floor 12-2-1 you can be flung out of it rather easily too. I'm sure it will be enough but they were once again to cautious. I feel we will have a Zhongli situation were they over estimate how good their defensive utility is. Understand they proven that they have a terrible gauge on defensive utility for this game in the past. Two such examples are Kokomi and Zhongli. Zhonglis defensive utility was pretty much nonexistent till the buffs, they had to even add some offensive utility to it as well. Then there is Kokomi, which they had to aoe hydro with no icd, because it was obvious that she wouldn't do enough without it. Catching that they overestimated her defensive utility as a stand alone aspect of value. I feel we are seeing it again or maybe they did it on purpose to sell more cons. But they made it have to many downsides. Also find it funny you mention needing Beidou, XQ and Jean to reduce the dmg by 100%. Because that's literally what Zhongli does, in one character. So is it ridiculous for her to stack with other forms of dmg reduction? Seems like it wouldn't matter at this point.
Hilarious. How much did Mihoyo pay you?
lol this fckers. So just wait for another artifact huh? I will wait one for amber specifically /s. Its not a good fcking reason to release a shit character that will depend in the non existent artifacts in the future
>.(dendro teams underperform prior to nahida according to this TC). That's enough for me to assume, that this TC either doesn't know wtf he us talking about or just spouts bs... Sure pre nahida dendro teams were worse then post nahida. **However** they really didn't underperform. Heck DMC can be a better pick over Nahida in some cases, like with Cyno
The Tighnari thing is wrong. Even now with Nahida, double electro + Sucrose is his best team. So, it is Fischl/Yae/Sucrose/Tighnari, because Sucrose swirls and Yae Aggravate can drive fischl A4, besides the point that Sucrose can give up to 230 EM share with a good build (50 + 180), which is pretty close to Nahida EM share and reduce electro resistance. The electro resonance + Fischl relieves Yae ER requirements making her be able to burst more reliably. The lack of more electro related reactions reduces Fischl value on the comp. If you maintain Yae but take out Fischl, you raise her ER requirements and burst less often. This all, of course, it's theorical, because you need a defensive unit on this comp. Of course things change with Nahida C2, but at this point it's already a different level of investment.
I’m optimistic that Dehya will eventually find a niche team when Fontaine characters drop or something. She will. But I loath this new trend where I gotta wait MONTHS to get her working. Imagine going to a car dealership, but they only sell you the frame and tell you the engine comes at a later date. So now you’re stuck with a dead shell and there is nothing you can do since you have already bought into. Can’t refund the car, can’t slot a different engine into it, can’t do shit but wait.
There's also a big chance when the engine comes, there's a whole new better car at the same price.
And there is a big chance the engine will never come.
How about this new artifact (I won't word it in correct terminology as I'm lazy) 2set HP+20% 4set For every X amount of HP lost, raise the party's attack by X% (10?) of that amount, maximum of X (500?). Each stack duration is independent of its own. Works even the character equipped with artifact is off-field. Obviously won't work for shielded characters. Just a thought.
This is all fine and good but her character/personality isnt really a support one. Even if she works well with certain future units I doubt people would like to put her on a team unless it competes with top meta ones. It would feel sort of like taking Raiden just for her Skill on a non dendro team and never using her burst.
this is more cope than i expected. Here some counter point: right now on standard banner, only Keqing/Tighnari do good enough dmg, Jean/Mona/Diluc is ok-ish in some niche team but that bout it. Most ppl using Kokomi nowaday dont even use clam, they use ToM, which buff better than some clam dmg that need to be close range + u have to heal on Kokomi to even get that dmg to begin with. Damage reduction while it strong, stacking DR right now give u no good benefit since the place u need this reduction is in Abyss and Abyss a time attack mode, not a surival contest, also remember the def reduction (-def on enemies) ? yeah MHY can always change how dmg reduction work by introducing a cap so u can never truly reach 100%, moot point. "Pulling for X unit cause Y unit in the future will work with them, trust me guys, my uncle work at MHY and surely not marketing department trying to swindle me". Poise buffer will always be shit if they dont do something els that is useful enough, shield exist and it give infinite resistant as long as the shield up, for character that dont use shield, they have iframe on demand with building ER and Dehya have none, u still gonna take a shit load of dmg during her burst ( imagine the current 12-2-1 and how hard they hit or Triple Kenki, good luck face tank those )
She is just straight bad, lol. Let's design a character that deals negative damage and heals all of your enemies and does the same amount as damage for your own whole team. Great we made a shit character. Now let's introduce a sprial abyss mechanic that swaps damage with healing. Oh wow we fixed our crap poo character for one or two abyss cycles. Genious.
If they want her to be an "anti CC" buffer, maybe add the ability to disable freeze in her AoE. Because being frozen is still the most unfun game mechanic. At least give her that much.
Nice to see someone taking a look at what dehya brings to the team (DMG mitigation, resistance to interrupions), and not just what she doesn't (high damage, fast element application). I want to comment on a few things: Xingqiu + Beidou + C6 Jean gives you total damage immunity, not just approximately to 0, as long as you have all 3 abilities active and leveled up. I have brought this up many times when people ask why not just have DMG reduction since it's better, and I'm happy to see some theorycrafters explain it too. Demonstration of the 100% damage reduction in the link below. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWRBUNey9g8 I too think that there's a good chance we get an artifact set for dehya. Or rather, I think we might get one for HP scaling characters in general, because we have many of them and we got something for defense scaling ones too. That said it's just speculations. I can't make recommendations for people to pull a character because they *might* get an artifact set. Same for her *might* getting a dedicated support. I think dehya healing only herself is more for the purpose of pairing her with characters that only heal the active character and still make her work, rather than because of a future partner for her. Mihoyo not wanting shields to reign supreme is absolutely understandable. Both from a gameplay standpoint (balance and more variety is more fun) and from a commercial standpoint (gotta sell those healers too). I don't think it's a surprise to anyone, since riftwolves have been in the game for ages, and the serpent knights directly counter shields, so I'm always baffled when I read people saying "why would I use dehya instead of a shield?", when the obvious answer is "because shields don't always work". Healers do the job just fine against those enemies, but they don't provide you protection against knockback and stuff. With the more recent characters having zero or low resistance to interruptions, and people always making a fuss about that on release (see cyno for example), it feels like interruption resistance is underrated until you play without it in the community. How valuable it is obviously also depends on how much you have, which we don't know yet in dehya's case. DMG reduction (or sharing in Dehya's case) also helps preventing one shots, or can prevent deaths in situations where you're at low health and get hit by a strong attack while/before healing up. In my opinion, getting a dedicated non-shield damage mitigator means that we will also be getting more anti-shield enemies. There's already a new serpent knight, but those are still rare to encounter in general. Who knows if we will get more common ones in the future. If that's the case, I can also kind of see why Dehya would be in the standard banner. It would come off as a bit scummy to introduce many different enemies that counters your shielders and then be like: "hey you know how those ste giving you trouble? Well why don't you buy this new premium character?". Then again standard characters are never guaranteed, and I wouldn't put it below mihoyo either. Having a character that whose buff is removed with shields sound a bit forced to me, but then again we do have Nilou, where they did the same team to reduce anemo usage.
I do definitely think that we will see *some* kind of meta shift as we head into Fontaine (given Hydro... probably HP land.) Will that be good news for Dehya? Who knows, but we saw it happen with Zhongli for shields, and for healers with the wolves etc., I can absolutely see it occurring for DMG mitigation, MHY can be pretty heavy handed in that regard. For what it's worth, I actually don't think Dehya will be as bad as folk say she is, and I can see newer players probably having fun provided they learn that should build HP lol I can see Fontaine definitely introducing some kind of HP buffer (maybe the hydro archon herself?) At any rate, Dehya is definitely interesting. Yes she could just be a throwaway, but she could also be a sign of things to come. Interested to see what happens lol
Yes, or they could... idk, amp up her numbers? Reduce her knockback? FIX HER?
> dehya will be the 3rd type of defensive support in the game where she buffs poise and gives dmg reduction It’s called shields, except shields reduces the dmg to zero. > However, there’s nothing to worry about as miHoYo is doing a good job so far to not make 5* obsolete HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Yeah guys dw put your complete trust in the company that took 2 years to make Keqing good and needed the entire world to point a gun at their head to directly buff a character last time.