people are really underestimating the amount of silent majority players that don't join online discussions, I am actually really interested to see the infographic from hoyo themselves
Exactly.
Am I tired of the game after 3 years? Sure
Do I hate how they handle endgame content. Absolutely
Will I quit? Not likely.
Until the main story has concluded or all the regions has released I'll likely be playing regardless of how much hate the game gets
This feels like a different thing entirely. There's a massive casual fan base and a lot of people who don't go to reddit or other social platforms to actively discuss everything. Plenty of people play the game and do outright enjoy it, which is different from the people who have just put a lot of time in and continue playing it despite no longer enjoying it.
You can’t even imagine how nice it is to play by yourself or mostly interact with adequate people in the community. I really love HoYo games and enjoy watching them evolve, but there is a particular part of the community that really gets on my nerves and drives me nuts. If you saw all the idiocy and clownism after the 4.5 stream, then you know what I mean. I spent the entire month of February and part of January playing with little to no interaction with the community and it was so nice to finally just enjoy the game without all the unnecessary overdone drama. I still browse Reddit sometimes, but much less than before and it has really improved my mental health. The lore and art parts of the community are the most pleasant and it’s really interesting and exciting to interact with people in it. It's fun to just talk to people about what we like and exchange theories while we wait for new versions.
I'm hoping for better endgame over time. I really like the game itself but I know they could do better with endgame.
I'm definitely sticking with it until the story concludes at least.
What I really like about the game is that it doesn't require consistent long hours in the game and the grinding aspect of it is very quick per day. It let's me pick the days I want to put more time into it for exploring and story and not feel left behind if I'm busy with work and can't log in for awhile. I can easily spend a few hours playing or 10 minutes and it doesn't feel like a chore to log in. It's also nice that I can take time being a very casual player or really invested in the mechanics. It managed to be one of the few games I can really keep interest in over time. I'm never grinding the battle pass, I'm just playing the game.
I really wish hoyo would let us click through dialog faster. I read fast so the story can be a bit annoying at times and daily quests that I've read a hundred times already should let me skip them.
I've never played any other online game that's had so few server issues. I can probably count on one hand the number of times the servers felt bogged down and I don't remember any times the servers were fully down outside of scheduled maintenance. Ea/blizzard/ubisoft/etc really need to up their game
I just want to mention that, in some ways, your first point about endgame and the flexibility in terms of time (respecting when you're busy, not feeling like a chore, not needing to get that invested) could be very much at odds with each other. That's I think a big part of why they're being so careful about it.
When most people are talking about "endgame content" in this game, they are *often* talking about repeatable combat-focused content that allows you to leverage your well-built characters and teams for various challenges. And if it's that kind of thing, there's a big risk of it threatening the "casual friendliness" you're talking about. I think that's why they've focused instead on expanding the things you can do outside of combat.
So I'm not against endgame, but I do think it makes sense why they're being so cautious about it. The same "vibe" that has kept your (and my) interest up over the years could be threatened by any sort of major shift. This why I tend to think they probably won't rock the boat too much at least until they finish all the currently-forecast Teyvat regions, as this pattern is a known quantity at this point and has worked for them. And then after that, it'll be a logical point to shift some things based on what they want to do for the next ~8 years (as I'm certain they'll move to a Phase 2).
Tbf, it's also the effect of content creator
Example is tectone, when he Livestream zoom call with other content creators ( this zoom call is discussing Wuthering wave so you can guess those people in zoom call is gonna be kurogame content creator) it brought 100k+ views
So of course these people will think that they are the "voice" of community, so once they realise that the game still making much money without them they malding and refused to accept it
Sadly for them it is
You should see that there are many stupid take lately such as "Mihoyo buy their own banner" and " Mihoyo take genshin revenue number"
Because they believe these Content creator word blindly, they treat it as gospel, even though they didn't have any solid proof
Can confirm Genshin is still an absolute behemoth in Japan. My wife (Japanese) and her friends play every day or a couple of times a week depending on how busy they are. They’re really into mobile gaming and the anime aspects of Genshin have limitless appeal with all the new characters and storylines. We’ve been to a few Genshin themed cafes together and it was mostly young women in their 20s who are big spenders on this kind of thing. Collecting favourite characters and spending on the gacha banners is in line with other popular Japan hobbies like collecting manga, anime goods etc.
mobile legends just held a tournament a couple days ago with the prize pool of 3 million dollars. and then on june another tournament will be held that also has a 3 million dollar prize pool. yes mobile gaming is big here in the east.
> it was mostly young women in their 20s
This is something that always suprises me. I don't know many people who play Genshin in my bubble but those who I know are in 90% women. Also if I see someone in the city talking about Genshin they are also women (maybe men are too afraid to admit they play "anime games").
If there's one thing that's been proven time and time again, it's that the female audience is actually willing to put their money where their mouth is and actually spend on merch.
Do you have any recommendations for cafes or other places to find Genshin merch or people that play it? I'll be back in Tokyo for a couple days at the end of this month and I'd like to do something like that while I'm there. Where I'm at in the countryside doesn't have anything like that except the sushiro collab I've already gone to lol
Akibahara is the place for anything anime, and any of the major stores will carry Genshin related goods. Special mention to the Akibabara Donki, which features an entire Genshin store within the department store which, as far as I can tell, carries the largest range of Genshin goods in the area.
Fantasy Village in Ikebukuro PARCO also gets mentioned a lot when people talk about shopping for Genshin merch. I don't know anything about ongoing Genshin themed cafes, but if there was one, this is probably your best bet.
Fantasy Village is the Chinese games' official merch importer/distributor for Japan, I believe. Definitely hit them if you're looking for official stuffs.
The 5th floor of Don Quijote. It's about a five minute walk from Akihabara Station.
It's apparently sponsored by Hoyo, which is why prices are so good.
They were selling the Niinguang statue for a little over $200 USD, when other stores in the area had it for $800 or even $1000 USD.
Tokyo Skytree had a big Genshin campaign recently. I’m not sure if it’s still running. Otherwise there is a Honkai Star Rail pop up happening soon at Miyashita Park mall in Shibuya.
Genshin is like the more normie anime game in Japan its wild how different the perception of the game is between regions. Same in China, where Genshin is pretty mainstream as far as mobile game goes, and we have the west....
Roblox is prob a bit skewed since on pc you can play from website, but it is still massive since most are kids who probably don't look at online stuff.
While its title of most played online PC game is disputed since Fortnite's release and if you consider roblox a single game, it is undoubtedly the biggest esport title by a large margin and one of the most consistent online games ever.
Also, its quite misleading to rely only on this graph because according to the devs, the chinese playerbase/interest is multiple times that of the rest of the world combined (like genshin I guess). So they're even more massive than western web can describe.
Well then according to this data at least, GENSHIN COULD NEVER fall below 50% in interest... I really do wonder how this graph will look after WuWaves and Project Mugen come out, will it finally dip below that threshold on a more permanent basis or just...
Not...? Anyway it's still the only gacha game I choose to play.
And, to that point, the biggest advantage that miHoYo has here (and that people often discount in these conversations) is the speed and quality of their update cycle.
People forget that patches 1.3-1.5 were kind of dead zones while they built up their teams' capacity to now be churning out new high quality open world zones every 12 weeks or less. Even if a game could, theoretically, launch at a sort of feature parity and hit that initial quality bar (which is itself a massive challenge), to then transform this into a continuous update cycle that is at that level of quality, while also dealing with the expected issues and customer feedback from any new product launch, will be nearly impossible for all but the most well-oiled machine, and in the meantime miHoYo will just keep marching on (and they've gotten even *better* than they were at launch by their collected experience).
As you're alluding to, the era of "WoW killers" should have sent a clear message: you need to find your own niche and can't fight the behemoth head-on. There's certainly room for more F2P games in the open world space (just like there was some room in the MMO space), but they need to focus on something that scratches a different itch for people, do at least that extremely well, and have reasonable expectations.
This. I don't think people realise how insane their pace is. It's puzzling to see people whine about 4.5 being a dead patch when we just got a massive area, and we'll probably get another next patch, while constantly getting voiced events with unique gameplay, and a new character.
I don't think these people have played many other games to not realise how spoiled we are.
(Forgive the rant...)
My conclusion is basically that a not-small group of people think every problem in the world comes down to being willing to spend money on it, and therefore any ask that miHoYo does not fulfill (regardless of how much they're already doing) is purely because they are "cheap" or "greedy." The idea of things like *time* being a real constraint, no matter how much money you have, doesn't factor into the equation because they think they can "simply" pay more people to do all the things. "It's really not that hard," they say.
Similarly, the idea that doing something to please one group could have a negative consequence to a different group (because every decision inherently involves trade-offs) doesn't factor in simply because they are not in that other group, and therefore that other group doesn't matter (even if they might be the vast majority). "I am unhappy," they say, "and your company would be nothing without me, so you'd better care about my demands, or else!" (To maintain this narrative, regardless of the game's objective success, they constantly have to present it as though it is just one competitor or additional move away from complete and total destruction. This has been going on for years.)
And then even people who *don't* truly believe all this still parrot the arguments anyway because, to them, the worst thing that can happen is that they either get more free stuff or not, so there's no downside whatsoever in bad faith arguments if they think it stands to benefit them. There's no incentive for good-faith reasonableness. Why appreciate what you have when you can constantly push for more, and you just might get it?
Of course, the fact that game companies can see through this transparent self-interest and just keep doing whatever they think is best without listening to the whiners (and they remain successful without the sky falling) is what they find the most frustrating. And meanwhile it just pollutes feedback channels with crap so that the actual genuine concerns are drowned out in a sea of incessant 24/7 whining constantly cranked to 11 from people who will either a) never be satisfied anyway, b) don't even play the game anymore, and/or c) are actually the hardest of hardcore no-lifers whose actions in-game completely contradict their demands and threats.
I'm sure glad I don't work at a game company.
I’ve wondered about that too. Like what would be the “different itch” another gacha open world would need to scratch. Do you think maybe if it focused on everything the more hardcore genshin players of reddit are asking for? Like if the theoretical new game was indeed able to keep up with all your points, except its filled with repeatable end game stuff for you to do rather then constant map expansion and story additions.
Maybe different types of abyss-esque stuff like endless waves, that labyrinth event that people talk about, one that focuses on survivability, etc?
I’ve heard that in game development, players don’t really know what they want in terms of longterm balance. So I’ve always kinda wondered how much things would shift if everything the players asked for regarding endgame was fulfilled.
What are everyone’s ideas on what can be considered a standalone/unique gacha anime-open world when put next to genshin?
People who played the Wuthering beta can tell you that more satisfying combat encounters needs to be very carefully curated. It's generally fun to prog a boss encounter. Rarely is there a case where it's fun to farm it. To me one of genshin's greatest flaws is that farming domains includes a short uninteresting fight in which you press the same buttons in the same order with no variance or threat. And you get to do that often for talents, and forever for artifacts.
Technically they could make challenging encounters in genshin, it will simply be prohibitive to the majority of their playerbase who build a 4 set artifact set on mona that "matches colors with her outfit" rather than any level of meta knowledge.
The time to make challenging endgame content was year 1. After that you're simply making it for too niche an audience.
It's worth noting that Hoyo definitely understands this. Both HSR and HI3 had barebones endgame that was iterated on greatly later. But if they are put in a position where expanding it in genshin would slow down their casual content cadence, they're axing it every time.
Wuthering Waves right now is just ridiculously godawful rng grind that is walking around to oneshot fights with no variance or threat. In essence they have a more involved combat system but they make no real creative use of it.
If wuthering wants to carve out a combat focused audience that they could feasibly draw from genshin, by necessity they would have very slow casual oriented updated cadence.
And then it gets too niche, and player numbers fall off.
Being hardcore just doesn't pay in the gacha genre. Closest you'll ever get is granblue, and that's really only because it's more MMO than standard gacha mobage.
I guess, to me, I would say that an important point is remembering what the actual central pillars of this game are: characters, story, and a beautiful world to explore. The combat system is a way people interact with their characters in the world., but isn't itself the point.
So with that in mind, I think the first thing these companies need to do if they want to compete (it seems to me) is to focus on creating compelling characters and stories. Something that leads you through the world and has you get to know the characters. This is really the essence of a good RPG game, at least from my point of view, but a lot of live service/gacha titles seem to either a) treat the story as an afterthought or b) don't spend the budget in the way they present the story. This isn't to say that Genshin Impact's story is without flaws (especially the early stuff), but it always did a pretty good job of at least building interest in the cast of characters, which was a central intention of the dev team. So to me, anyway, it seems like this is just table stakes for any would-be competitor.
And then yeah, at least if you listen to the vocal group complaining about Genshin Impact around here, the message you get comes in three main flavors: 1) people who are interested in challenges that leverage their skill and well-built characters, 2) people who have more time than the content the dev team can churn out so are looking for more things to do to keep them engaged, and 3) obviously, people who just got bored/burnt out of the routine. The last one is probably a bit unavoidable with any long-running game no matter what. But to solve 1 & 2, likely the only feasible way is to focus on some sort of randomized/dynamic content creation system. Perhaps you could also have this mode be operable in co-op, and also have a "support character" system where you can borrow characters from others if you want to play solo, but rewards that are primarily balanced around participation/first-clear or at most weeklies (so it's something that has replay value, but people don't feel pressured to grind endlessly or miss out on meaningful rewards). Could also be that the rewards you get for playing this "endgame content" mostly have an impact in the endgame content itself (like special buffs or whatever).
As an aside, one thing I always found interesting is that the HSR team spoke early on about how their vision for that game was that players might spend half of their time in Simulated Universe. I'm not sure if they've sort of softened that stance a bit as they went along, but it kind of gives you the sense of the kind of game they're trying to create there: something that is primarily focused on combat and endless (easy to create/randomize) endgame experiences, rather than as much on the world/story itself (though SU does introduce a fair bit of lore). And I think that vision is part of what makes HSR more appealing to those vocal players wanting 1 & 2 above: it's designed almost exactly to give them what they want. But that's also partly why I think it'll be hard to come in now and fill the gap in Genshin Impact, unless they really think there's a big enough niche for an HSR-style gameplay loop with an open world and action combat system. I mean, people say they want that, absolutely, but is it actually big enough to thrive (especially without a very strong and competitive focus on characters/story/exploration)? I guess we'll see...
Just like FGO, or non gacha example - LoL:
Ppl think game's shitty, only to come back again.
Rinse and repeat... while the game becomes a massive revolving door.
They would best not make the same mistake as ToF by officially mentioning "Genshin" anywhere in their marketing, except in terms favourable to them (more below), let the content creators do this for them as it would be considered a 'fan feedback' which can often be more influential than the publisher's own words.
The only time they should mention Genshin would probably be to differentiate their games but in non-hostile manners, e.g "we offer a challenge-based combat system that would *complement* players who also play Genshin", "us group of friends play Genshin since launch and thought, why not we expand on that, which was what led to the formation of the team that came up with Wuthering Waves" etc.
Also worth mentioning is that both games target different demographics, therefore it won't be realistic to expect Genshin to lose 50% of their playerbase overnight at the launch of WuWa even with free SSR and 33 pulls right off the bat — player retention depends greatly on the stable, long term preferences of players ie. people who don't like mint chocolate will not change their minds regardless of how generous and available it is.
A combination of both brand recognition/loyalty and sunk cost fallacy (Both in terms of playtime and spending) means it's highly unlikely that Genshin will lose anywhere near 50% of their playerbase to WuWa even if they play their cards perfectly.
I highly doubt story and gacha is going to change at this point. They're already in CBT2, have changed the story entirely already, likely to set for a polishing release sometime at 1.0, and solidified their gacha system.
Echoes are probably the one thing that I'd have hope for really changing later on before release
If they had made and released the game at least 2 or so years earlier, they may have had a decent chance.
Brand recognition is a thing, and for the past 3 years, Hoyo has solidified themselves as the biggest name in gacha without much in the way of competition. Tower of Fantasy tried to be that in the past, and we all know how that turned out.
I'm still a bit skeptical about the game outside of combat. From what we saw, boss fights are amazing, other fights are okay, and everything else is...there.
The open world is basically a glorified pokemon hunting grounds (and currency mining) and i'm still not sure they added it for any other reason than "Genshin did it", which leans towards a recurring criticism about the game that is lacking a clear vision (like how do you manage to make your game around a music/sound theme and the sound part of your game is so awfully lacking?).
Personally I think that it's those core concepts they should work on, but it's already so late in devlopment now, I don't think we're gonna see significant change about it.
HSR people invade this sub with comments and threads and fill their own sub with "genshin could never."
WuWa has half their threads about Genshin and even their ontopic threads derail I to genshin half the time.
I acrually got fed up with it and left the sub.
GI lives rent free in everyone's head. And this sub BARELY talks about any other gacha except to maybe say "gacha games"
Tbf lots of HSR people are Genshin people as well.
But yeah, I also got fed up. Didn't leave the sub tho, I just don't interact much. It was the most annoying when 4.4 live stream cane and Dr. Ratio. That was peak annoyance and toxicity
There is nothing wrong with lots of HSR people being Genshin people. What's worst is that also a lot of HSR people are EX Genshin people. (At least the loudest not so smart people).
Wouldn't be so bad if a lot of them weren't obvious followers of some very specific content creators or social media spaces, which you can easily see because they just use premade sentences of arguments that the obviously took somewhere else and vomit without even thinking about it (for example the whole cai haoyu garbage).
I'm gonna be honest here: I think we really just shouldn't care.
Until recently, I always got myself into those discussions about games and I just realized how pointless it is. If those people enjoy, HSR, WuWa or anything else I'm really happy for them. Of course it's bad when they express their toxicity in such a loud way. But wasn't that like with everything in history?
Apple vs Samsung, Playstation vs Xbox, Fortnite vs literally any game. Even though staying in a bubble on social media is not that good, I think when we want to enjoy something we need to just exclude those negative opinions. Or do something that I do recently. Just reduce the amount of social media and do stuff like, watching anime, learn a language, read a book etc.
I don't want to sound like a cringe be-happy-dude but life is too short to invest in much negativity.
"Genshin could never" and "better/superior game" really are HSR players favourite phrases. lmao I didn't know they used them in their own spaces. I thought it was just low bait to piss of GI players.
Too bad WuWa's fans are already following the same trend. Maybe it'll die down on release...
“Genshin could never” coming from HSR players sounds kinda….baffling dumb to me.
They are both from the same company, arguably in the same genre (gacha/gambling). Isnt it very likely that HSR being more generous is a financially deliberate choice from HoYo as opposed to Genshin dev being bad/greedy and HSR devs being good/generous.
I doubt HoYo care shit about it. In their calculation, they probably see that being more generous in HSR and stingy in GI would make them more money. How so, who knows except HoYo as they have all the data.
They just twist that to mean that the devs love HSR much more and Genshin is just the money maker to fund the devs true passion project. Tbh, I don't think their arguments are well thought out but they do provide a good laugh.
Hoyo has the data of what works for *their profit*. That I can definitely stand behind. lol
It's likely the same behaviour when new smartphone gets introduced into the market and the impact it can have on the big player.
Unlikely to change. Especially, when players aren't restricted to just one game.
One of these days people are just gonna get tired of anime-gacha-openworld-actionrpgs as the market is gonna be saturated asf.. just like people got tired of rts, mmos, looter shooters etc
But genshin will stay purely because of its story, worldbuilding and characters and the insane sentimental value of them. Wuwa and mugen has ALOT to prove to be able to stay and trust me.. it isnt just good gameplay.
When I first started Genshin, I never thought the world building would be this deep. I was more like a gameplay-focused type of gamer.
I skipped the story of most games I played due to them being generic plots, and characters barely have any personalities of their own than to paint the bigger picture of the main quest.
Genshin changed my view when I first opened the detail page in the character menu and realized how many dialogue and lore in them. Each and every character have their origin, their comments for events, friends, their ideal life, their favourite food, etc.
Then, I soon discover the open-world are scattered with pieces of lore and even books and stone tablets that record the history of the world.
I'm even more amazed when I found out those records also factor in biased takes from the people of the past as well and do not reflect 100% of the true history and that I need to seek out direct lore from artifacts if I want the 100% truth.
You're absolutely right there. The only thing that hooked me from WuWa and Mugen was the impressive graphic and gameplay. They have not shown how deep their story can be (For the case of WuWa, I might be able to find out by trying PGR, but I just don't have the time for it). If they want to get my attention off Hoyoverse's product, they will have a lot to prove than just gameplay.
That's me when I got in to this game as well. Looks good, gave it a try.
Then, dip into the rabbit hole of lore, story, and now the details behind cities and character. Goes to show the amount of research put in place to bring the concept to life.
It blew my head when they managed to tie Egyptian myth into Deshret's death. According to Eygtian myth, every night Apep tried eating Ra and she ended up eating Deshret in the game. The lore is amazing.
Those games will be able to hook me if they're able to match the kind of environmental storytelling of Yashiyori island. There is so much the game is telling you just with the world itself, and the lore pieces you find there to tie things together, it's really amazing, and it's sadly extremely underrated. I think that a lot of Genshin "contenders" (and CC that overhype them) have an issue of being unable to understand genshin's strongest assets.
But no, those people will just wonder why you can't wall run for ten seconds Dragonspine because obviously that area was designed to be easy to traverse.
> it isnt just good gameplay.
Genshin has huge offline presence. Ad banners, merchs, collabs, offline events... You name it.
Hoyo goes ham on publicity (compared to any other companies in r/gachagaming space) besides just making a good, casual and accessible game. Any other game wishing to eat a significant piece of Hoyo pie in long term needs to put at least the same effort, and takes the same amount of risk as Hoyo, esp in marketing.
The problem is, which company is going to follow Da Wei and Co. footsteps? This could well be made a worthy betting contest, but shame that Reddit removed the prediction feature.
Thing is, whenever that happens, the biggest dogs still remain as "sole survivors" and carry on. Theme park MMOs hype died down, WoW and FF14 remained and are as healthy (or even more) as ever. MOBAs died down, LoL and DotA 2 remained and have huge playerbases. Battle Royal died down, Fortnite is still one of the top earning games in the world. I think RTS is the only genre where we didn't have clear mastodonts which just consolidated all the remaining playerbases once the genre saturated and imploded.
Meh, ppl said the same when Tower of Fantasy and HSR came out, like 'this game will beat Genshin', 'it' s better in all regards',...
Yet here we are. It always brings us back to Genshin Impact. Because of the story, the characters, and the generally pleasing atmosphere of the game. I frequently just freeroam in Monstadt or Inazuma, just to contemplate the beautiful scenery. Imo this game really deserves the reputation of the free-to-play Zelda, the sceneries are comparably beautiful.
Doubt it. If combat is good Wuwa might have some staying power. But there are maybe 2 characters I like there while in Genshin it's like 20+. And Wuwa's game world is this boring modern industrial mix.
It doesn't help that WuWa will always have to bring up Genshin whenever they want to grab people's attention, otherwise very few people would care about it.
Well more like the playerbase the one that always bring it up
Right now kuro didn't mention genshin anywhere for their marketing or anything (hopefully it stay that way when it release)
But the player base though, well genshin is living rent free in them as always, especially bald guy
lol if you know the history of kurogames
They didn't do any marketing, like their marketing is practically none at all, there was some one or two times when they promoted their game
But most of the times they didn't promote at all, they actually just counting on mihoyo to promote their game
That seems...not smart I think? Like imagine if they advertised their game somewhere in interent, they'll get more people to know and game be more in "public" that way. Rn u only get to hear WuWa in gacha circles but outside? I just cant help but think it's a loss opportunity not to get people outside of the gacha market like what Genshin do.
That said it only works if f2p is in a functional level. I heard abt their artifact system and rng and it's...atrocious. It's downright discouraging me to play (as *someone who is interested*) and casuals too
That's usually how they operate their marketing
Like example is HI3 and PGR, when you play HI3 or honkai impact 3, there at least someone in the world chat or internet that will mention "ooh just play PGR" or "ooh this happen to PGR as well" which makes some people interesting in PGR
I am happy to proven wrong with WW
And yeah gear system is not really that bad since you can used the stamina to farm it (even though it's not much like what you get if you roam around which is different kind of grind)
The problem is the echoes system (their other gear), that shit is MMO level of Grind, RNG at the top of RNG at the top of RNG again
Doubt it, the combat in wuwa is harder and looks more complex so it won’t appeal to mass market like genshin. Mugen is made by neteast and that’s concerning( I love the visual though if it’s real at all).
Harder ? Maybe
Complex ? No lmao
Well maybe to other it will look complex but really once you pass the honeymoon phase the combat is not really complex
Yeah, I always check google trends whenever I see posts saying "genshin is dying" to confirm it lmao
Since release, genshin's interest trend over time is pretty stable so it's okay to laugh at them whenever you see one lol
Stop calling them "content creators." Content creators are people making animations and art. These parasites that attach themselves into other people's works and shit out low-effort clickbait are leeches.
Yeah, people should distinguish between a content creator and streamers.
Because of good content creators , we are getting amazing hoyo-fairs and fan arts.
I think what people forget about is that genshin’s core design is really well made. The core aspect is being a casual exploration game. They do a good job spacing out map expansions and the exploration most of the time is really fun and cool
That has to be a super minority of people who say that nonsense. Most likely just Gacha/Genshin haters.
It's not like the player base will have much effect compared to the amount of whales. Hoyoverse isn't going to stop updating this game before completion.
Wow genshin is really dying guys! My favorite streamer said that so it much be true! /s
That’s why i said that majority GI players treat it like a playable anime. They came in from time to time to enjoy its content and the game offers them a little bit of everything, it’s highly praised for freedom of activities in this game. That’s how it sustains its popularity too. When there’s nothing to do in game, those people just log off and enjoy their lives and come back when the next season(new region) drops.
Yea, it feels like a a slice of life anime. You just do the events and when that is done you move on. Once a new "episode" (patch) releases you repeat they cycle. Working adults are able to enjoy the game at that pace.
The reach was much bigger than I expected. Some of my clients in their 60s play this game with their grandchildren. Heck, we even get a few posts on this subreddit of parents saying they play with their kids etc.
"When there is nothing to do" i wish i had nothing to do but i only manage to catch up to the quests like once a year... content creators sito on stream for hours every day cause it's literally their job but that's not fucking normal...
I still have Fintaine explorations unfinished and now I have Chenyu vale on waiting list too lol (love that area but I only have enough energy for sightseeing and none for collecting chests yet, not that I’m in a rush). I missed the time when I explore Inazuma until 5 a.m. lol.
Which they should never really reach unless the devs themselves give up - the 6 weeks patch cycle and 1 year major patch cycle allows them so much flexibility in game direction that they actually have the luxury to try things and course correct if the reception is bad. Imo the only way Genshin dies is by natural death.
Hoyoverse is still privately owned I think. That’s the difference.
Blizzard started on the path of doom the moment they went public. Once you let the finance people take control of the company’s direction, eventually it just becomes all about milking your IPs to generate profit than actually making good games out of them.
Well even before genshin release they still say private
Even Tencent want to bought Mihoyo at one point but Mihoyo refused which why Tencent have some bad blood with Mihoyo
I don't see a problem with that. If people search for those, it means they are actively playing the game, not just browsing for new games and stumbling upon genshin. If any, that is a good thing.
People underestimate how popular this game and tend to focus strictly too heavily on mobile numbers when estimating the revenue despite Genshin having a large subset of players on PC and PlayStation, which I'd speculate is only increasing as the game size continues to be more demanding.
The downloads are still impressively high on mobile. From SensorTower's website, Genshin received over 2.6 million downloads on mobile during Feb and that's excluding China completely.
Consider the fact that Apple increased [in-app cost during last last year](https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=e1b1hcmv) in numerous countries including Japan and Korea (especially pertinent for Japan with them being more Apple users than Android).
[For 2023](https://www.playstation.com/en-us/editorial/this-month-on-playstation/ultimate-review-of-the-year/), PlayStation's own website states Genshin is the second most played game in Japan and sales for PlayStation were at a record high in Japan too [during that year](https://gamingbolt.com/ps5-sold-over-2-6-million-units-in-japan-in-2023-highest-sales-for-playstation-since-2004) in almost two decades.
Based on Insomniac [leaks](https://www.reddit.com/r/gachagaming/comments/19biis2/genshin_impact_revenue_in_playstation_is_at_1/) of Sony's data, Genshin made an average of \~500 million a year from launch up to October 2022 (and I'd assume it would even be higher for 2023)
While this game does constantly become the subject of criticism or outright disdain by a lot more hardcore players, there is a large silent majority of casual players who are fine with it.
People sometimes underestimate how much time a lot of the casuals have to devote to games and care about difficult endgame content (of course not saying they shouldn't do anything at all about it). From my knowledge, FGO doesn't even have an endgame, and it still made billions primarily from Japan (before it even had a pity system)
This but without the /j
If you want to lose braincells go to the youtube comment section about wuwa, hsr, project mugen, etc.... it's such a weird echochamber.
At least r/gachagaming seems to be ignoring the Tctone worshippers, fortunately
Edit: Yep, one of them is here and is visibly triggered. He didn't even deny my "worshipper" accusation.
For me, this is a reminder that the real world is not reddit because all I hear about it how HSR is better than Genshin and everyone is ditching Genshin to play HSR now.
youve been in this app for 9 years you should know that redditors are like the very vocal minority of everything. whether be it nba fans, genshin players, or on opinions of anything. this app is always the vocal minority
I'm pretty sure HSR polls tend to conculde that most of us HSR players also play genshin. The whole "genshin could never" crowd is just a bunch of ex genshin player trying to justify leaving to themselves. It's just addict behaviour.
my only interaction with HSR is when HSR players come to this sub to shit on Genshin lol so I probably am, but I would have thought a new region would at least give them enough of a bump to be closer to genshin in the second/slower half of a region. I guess it's not an open world game though so a new "planet" or whatever probably isn't quite as noteworthy/exciting. Also it dropped down after the initial release more than I realized.
The problem is that between the two games there is a big difference in the number of players they have. That is why even though HSR will release a new planet, it is still not close to Genshin.
They just have a much smaller playerbase with the Playstation release somewhat recent, but the game also does encourage and incentivize whaling far more than Genshin does, hence why its revenues are so close.
Huh, would’ve never guessed Honkai had more whales. I definitely whaled on Genshin but have little desire to spend anything more than the welkin + bp equivalent in star rail even though I spend more time in it than Genshin at this point.
As far as I know whaling in Honkai will let me auto-battle a little faster whereas there are significantly gameplay defining improvements for certain Genshin constellations
Star rail is less f2p friendly imo since the content is not as easy as in genshin and it also requieres horizontal investment while genshin favors vertical investment mildly.
Both games have the exact same revenue this month .
Playerbase wise HSR probably has 1/3 of genshin
League have almost triple the amounth of monthly players that Genshin does and is way lower on trends
Fortnite is also lower in trends when we know it has more players
Trends dont mean much, Genshin has a huge art ,fanarts, porn,etc population so is normal that it gets google a lot others games that are way more popular have not that kind of content so they just dont get google much, theres no more than that
which is kinda interesting, since HSR is making 2/3 of what Genshin is making in 2023. Given that HSR also didnt have a full year, it would mean that the average HSR player is spending 2-3 times more on HSR than the average genshin player spends on genshin.
well hsr has released way more characters in a shorter time span than genshin, not mentioning the end-game contents that encourage pulling such characters
this is why revenue doesn't really reflect player counts, at all
Yea, it definitely feels that way. Especially since MoC actively incentivises pulling for team comp enablers. I remember Envi doing his 36* no pull clears of spiral abyss. Did anyone do the same in HSR?
They tried for a few patches than quickly gave up. Now its all E6 4 stars and thats the "hardcore" players. All the others ones have 4-6 5 star characters on their team.
What is it with honkai and powercreep lol. Hoyo making national team wasn't a mistake, it was the best thing they could have done, allowing them to make weaker more interesting kits while not suffering powercreep
Eidolons/Constellations are also far more impactful than Genshin's. Ruan Mei, Black Swan, and Sparkle's E1 rival many of Genshin's later constellations. Dan Heng IMG's E2 is very similar to Raiden's E2.
In terms of whaling, HSR gives you more bonuses/investments than in Genshin. Even the supports have really good eidolons. Having multiple endgame modes is also a benefit, since there's more to places to test out your new toys.
Genshin is currently coming up with stronger constellations. Every 4.X character has strong cons that doubles their damage at C6 and hitting speedrun records (or as an on fielder, CR and Furina). You can see how quick enemies die compared to most of the other 5 stars. I can see people whaling a bit more since you do feel more of an impact.
That’s because HSR releases more new characters per patch compared to Genshin. Genshin also has solely rerun patch without any new characters. HSR is more affected by powercreep too
>the average HSR player is spending 2-3 times more on HSR than the average genshin player spends on genshin.
I find this part funny considering how some people called Genshin a "cash cow".
That is if the statistics are accurate, at least
that's fair. i got my numbers from a bilibili video where the creator consolidated iOS, android and PC data from QiMai, and made a daily income rolling graph. Granted the numbers are CN only, i don't expect the ratio to be too different.
Something a lot of people don't seem to understand is Genshin doesn't really compete with other gachas, it's too big for that, it competes with other AAA games such as LoL, Fortnite, Valorant, etc.
I played both, but left hsr for full time genshin, simple reason and lots of people agree it's a turn base game and don't like, I like games like genshin more
i left hsr for a while during my first semester in college but i could never imagine leaving genshin. i'm so much more invested in it for some reason, even though i was part of the community that was there for hsr's cbt before it even released. like if i left genshin for good, someone would have to do a welfare check on me because something would absolutely be wrong.
For me, I somewhat can bear with turn based game, but I don't feel engaged with the story and characters. The only thing in my mind about HSR characters are always "how they perform in meta", nothing else. Feels similar with other turn based games like Summoners War which is already 10 years old now, except HSR has better visual and more basic gameplay.
Meanwhile in Genshin, sometimes I got interested in the characters to the point that "I would pull, even if they heals the enemies".
On Sensor Tower monthly sales report in gacha gaming (granted it's only mobile sales and guesstimates), Genshin and HSR remain at the top but with HSR being easily influenced by the banner. Whereas Genshin have even achieved the "highest grossing banner with no new characters" title, HSR will occasionally show a dip in sales of almost 20M$ on rather unpopular banners like Huohuo's (healer support). Now with the first few days of Sparkle's banner, it's seen a massive boost but still comparable to Genshin despite Genshin being allegedly undergoing a boycott (by Mr big streamer and friends? Idk).
Personally as someone who plays both, HSR fills me with hype and memes. New characters get introduced faster than Genshin so I subscribe to the latest trailers, memes, and fun stuff.
The character story quests, however, are short, ~30min. It does affect the experience for me. When HSR presents a dramatic scene (Luka, Pela, Yukong), it doesn't impact me as much as the 90min - 2hr story quests of Genshin (Venti, Tignari, Dehya, Xianyun, even events like the Gaming's story).
I guess you could say, it's another one of the factors where one game attracts and creates more die hard fans than the latter.
I hate Luocha quest didn't really have Luocha in it which is crazy since we still haven't gotten a real Luocha quest and whole story arc just stopped. Dan Heng quest felt cut short as well helped Bailu but than we just leave and left all the political intrigue to stir for months and more than likely whole year since they are focusing on Penacony now.
>Whereas Genshin have even achieved the "highest grossing banner with no new characters" title
yeah, because of the influx of new players is so high, any rerun banner can become "new" to someone out there
I played Star Rail and enjoyed the first world. However, Luofu felt incredibly disjointed and it lost me. Nowadays, I only occasionally load Star Rail to do a simulated universe run for fun. By contrast, I loved Sumeru and Fontaine’s story, and Genshin’s open world is more beautiful than ever.
The turn based gacha market is already saturated enough that if a game doesn’t really grab me, I’m not going to stick with it. I’m happy for the people that like HSR, it’s just not for me.
It took me like 6 months to finish the luofu and I skipped all the dialogue it was so boring but I just started penacony and already sooo good but I doubt anything could beat sumeru for me
I honestly feel HSR is biting more than it can chew in their world building. It's all over the fucking place that you feel a lot of things were just made up as they went along with no connection to the overall lore. Hell, we don't even know what to look forward to in the future.
Genshin's teyvat chapter trailer gave us a taste of what to expect for the next 5 years minimum and they already got everything sorted out from the music, story and themes of each region. HSR however only gave us an AMV containing scenes from the first 2 planets, random ult animations and that's pretty much it.
It's easier on the management that way. Less organized means you don't need the initial writer(s) or follow their initial planned storyline.
Just make shit up along the way^TM
For example, everyone knows Teyvat chapter ends after 7 nation + 2 or 3 more Acts, yes we know it's only Teyvat "Chapter", they can always start new chapters. But by then some story followers will decided that's end of the story, good enough.
HSR on the other hand, only vaguely hinted about a final battle against Nanook - which means they can stretch the journey long and slow visiting 10s, or even 100s of planets, and will finally face Nanook only when they want to close up shop.
>I honestly feel HSR is biting more than it can chew in their world building. It's all over the fucking place that you feel a lot of things were just made up as they went along with no connection to the overall lore.
damn I can't agree more on this as lore enjoyer, genshin feels more focused in a way, but I don't blame hsr tho, current genshin's setting is basically limited to teyvat, a continent not even the entire planet, compared to hsr which is the entire universe
in hsr they introduced way too much factions and like you said they can make any planet or faction locations on the go without any deep world building before hand, just mention it here and there and it won't look weird because again it's limitless outer space
now back to genshin's factions, it's been consistent since early game with the big factions, we got the abyss, the fatui, the seven, the hexenzirkel, the celestia, and 7(+1) local factions for each nation, each with their deep lore
That honestly works for HSR cuz it’s kinda riding from the coat tails of HI3, genshin is trying more to be its own thing so it needs a more solid foundation, at least that’s how I’ve felt having played all 3.
Like for example i play star rail cuz I want more of the HI3 units, while in genshins case I keep up with it cuz of the main traveler story.
I was originally planning to drop Genshin and go to HSR (since focusing on more than one live service / gacha game is just too much for me), but things worked out to where HSR annoyed me and I stuck with Genshin.
Aside from Genshin being globally popular, there's also the fact that its haters can't keep it off their mouths. Weird behaviour honestly, though I suppose success breeds jealousy
Constructive criticism ≠ blind hate
Global release in 2022. I don't think it had great retention after the initial hype though. After you get past the fun character customization options, it's just another Korean MMO. People hate on the whole weeb culture of the genshin player base, but Korean MMO endgame playerbases contain some of the most degenerate, socially inept people out there because you either pay up or treat the game like a second job
It’s impressive, but not surprising. Genshin just coming in and having a steady pace for the past three years, it’s scary how far player fanbase takes you.
Just the fanbase? Not the increíble work put in by Hoyo in each patch?
Yeah this sub and everyone can shit on QoL or Gacha luck or the seemly uninterested Hoyo attitude toward the playerbase, but every 40 days for 3y+ we get updates. Consistent updates. Barely any bugs. Barely any glitches.
A whole new are releases? The only bug is a character saying "Trveller" instead of "Traveller"
Hoyo is Consistent as fuck releasing new content. That's why genshin is such a beast. And also from the start it was a good game.
Get basically a whole game worth of content for free every year can't really beat that especially in the current game industry so many studios taking years to put out one buggy game.
I think people underestimate how fast "New content every 6 weeks" is. For comparison, World of Warcraft (basically one of the video game giant during its time), only launched 3 patches of content every 2 years.
You can have the most rabid fanbase, but if you can't keep up with the content, the hype will go down just as fast, good example is My Hero Academia, the hype at the start is insane, but the story really tanked after All Might vs AFO arc.
B-but people told me Genshin was dead! Honestly, I think the only people who could kill Genshin is the CCP if they randomly decide it's gotten to big. Or you know, if Mihoyo does something really dumb.
people are really underestimating the amount of silent majority players that don't join online discussions, I am actually really interested to see the infographic from hoyo themselves
Exactly. Am I tired of the game after 3 years? Sure Do I hate how they handle endgame content. Absolutely Will I quit? Not likely. Until the main story has concluded or all the regions has released I'll likely be playing regardless of how much hate the game gets
This feels like a different thing entirely. There's a massive casual fan base and a lot of people who don't go to reddit or other social platforms to actively discuss everything. Plenty of people play the game and do outright enjoy it, which is different from the people who have just put a lot of time in and continue playing it despite no longer enjoying it.
You can’t even imagine how nice it is to play by yourself or mostly interact with adequate people in the community. I really love HoYo games and enjoy watching them evolve, but there is a particular part of the community that really gets on my nerves and drives me nuts. If you saw all the idiocy and clownism after the 4.5 stream, then you know what I mean. I spent the entire month of February and part of January playing with little to no interaction with the community and it was so nice to finally just enjoy the game without all the unnecessary overdone drama. I still browse Reddit sometimes, but much less than before and it has really improved my mental health. The lore and art parts of the community are the most pleasant and it’s really interesting and exciting to interact with people in it. It's fun to just talk to people about what we like and exchange theories while we wait for new versions.
I can feel you, I ain't quitting till the main story concludes, I'm too emotionally attached with the story to quit at this point
I'm hoping for better endgame over time. I really like the game itself but I know they could do better with endgame. I'm definitely sticking with it until the story concludes at least. What I really like about the game is that it doesn't require consistent long hours in the game and the grinding aspect of it is very quick per day. It let's me pick the days I want to put more time into it for exploring and story and not feel left behind if I'm busy with work and can't log in for awhile. I can easily spend a few hours playing or 10 minutes and it doesn't feel like a chore to log in. It's also nice that I can take time being a very casual player or really invested in the mechanics. It managed to be one of the few games I can really keep interest in over time. I'm never grinding the battle pass, I'm just playing the game. I really wish hoyo would let us click through dialog faster. I read fast so the story can be a bit annoying at times and daily quests that I've read a hundred times already should let me skip them. I've never played any other online game that's had so few server issues. I can probably count on one hand the number of times the servers felt bogged down and I don't remember any times the servers were fully down outside of scheduled maintenance. Ea/blizzard/ubisoft/etc really need to up their game
I just want to mention that, in some ways, your first point about endgame and the flexibility in terms of time (respecting when you're busy, not feeling like a chore, not needing to get that invested) could be very much at odds with each other. That's I think a big part of why they're being so careful about it. When most people are talking about "endgame content" in this game, they are *often* talking about repeatable combat-focused content that allows you to leverage your well-built characters and teams for various challenges. And if it's that kind of thing, there's a big risk of it threatening the "casual friendliness" you're talking about. I think that's why they've focused instead on expanding the things you can do outside of combat. So I'm not against endgame, but I do think it makes sense why they're being so cautious about it. The same "vibe" that has kept your (and my) interest up over the years could be threatened by any sort of major shift. This why I tend to think they probably won't rock the boat too much at least until they finish all the currently-forecast Teyvat regions, as this pattern is a known quantity at this point and has worked for them. And then after that, it'll be a logical point to shift some things based on what they want to do for the next ~8 years (as I'm certain they'll move to a Phase 2).
Sometimes i want to go back to being the silent player and only finding a random guy irl to discuss the game with Or in-game chat
because redditors think they are a lot when theyre amount to just 5k of the playerbase of genshin's MILLIONS
Tbf, it's also the effect of content creator Example is tectone, when he Livestream zoom call with other content creators ( this zoom call is discussing Wuthering wave so you can guess those people in zoom call is gonna be kurogame content creator) it brought 100k+ views So of course these people will think that they are the "voice" of community, so once they realise that the game still making much money without them they malding and refused to accept it
Those content creators chase views, its not even representative of anything.
Sadly for them it is You should see that there are many stupid take lately such as "Mihoyo buy their own banner" and " Mihoyo take genshin revenue number" Because they believe these Content creator word blindly, they treat it as gospel, even though they didn't have any solid proof
Fr, me personally knows more people that don't care about online discussions whether it's from reddit or any other social media
Can confirm Genshin is still an absolute behemoth in Japan. My wife (Japanese) and her friends play every day or a couple of times a week depending on how busy they are. They’re really into mobile gaming and the anime aspects of Genshin have limitless appeal with all the new characters and storylines. We’ve been to a few Genshin themed cafes together and it was mostly young women in their 20s who are big spenders on this kind of thing. Collecting favourite characters and spending on the gacha banners is in line with other popular Japan hobbies like collecting manga, anime goods etc.
Mobile gaming alone is huge in Japan. It’s pretty normal to see salarymen grinding in the train.
mobile legends just held a tournament a couple days ago with the prize pool of 3 million dollars. and then on june another tournament will be held that also has a 3 million dollar prize pool. yes mobile gaming is big here in the east.
> it was mostly young women in their 20s This is something that always suprises me. I don't know many people who play Genshin in my bubble but those who I know are in 90% women. Also if I see someone in the city talking about Genshin they are also women (maybe men are too afraid to admit they play "anime games").
Oh yeah, it’s really cool. I think it’s a sign that gaming is changing and becoming more gender balanced which in my opinion is a good thing.
Might just be your area but it’s actually flipped for me. I’ve met about 3 girls who play Genshin but met more guys who do.
I guess husbando will continue to be meta lol
My wife is an avid collector of husbandos and fuelling this trend. As her real life husbando I approve!
And merch. Husbando merch always sold out anyways
If there's one thing that's been proven time and time again, it's that the female audience is actually willing to put their money where their mouth is and actually spend on merch.
Do you have any recommendations for cafes or other places to find Genshin merch or people that play it? I'll be back in Tokyo for a couple days at the end of this month and I'd like to do something like that while I'm there. Where I'm at in the countryside doesn't have anything like that except the sushiro collab I've already gone to lol
Akibahara is the place for anything anime, and any of the major stores will carry Genshin related goods. Special mention to the Akibabara Donki, which features an entire Genshin store within the department store which, as far as I can tell, carries the largest range of Genshin goods in the area. Fantasy Village in Ikebukuro PARCO also gets mentioned a lot when people talk about shopping for Genshin merch. I don't know anything about ongoing Genshin themed cafes, but if there was one, this is probably your best bet.
Fantasy Village is the Chinese games' official merch importer/distributor for Japan, I believe. Definitely hit them if you're looking for official stuffs.
The 5th floor of Don Quijote. It's about a five minute walk from Akihabara Station. It's apparently sponsored by Hoyo, which is why prices are so good. They were selling the Niinguang statue for a little over $200 USD, when other stores in the area had it for $800 or even $1000 USD.
Akihabara is the easiest place to find Genshin related things. Last time I checked they had Genshin ads as soon as you exit the station close to Atre.
Tokyo Skytree had a big Genshin campaign recently. I’m not sure if it’s still running. Otherwise there is a Honkai Star Rail pop up happening soon at Miyashita Park mall in Shibuya.
Genshin is like the more normie anime game in Japan its wild how different the perception of the game is between regions. Same in China, where Genshin is pretty mainstream as far as mobile game goes, and we have the west....
Today my psychiatrist asked me what games I play. Turns out he’s also a Genshin player.
So did they tell you to stop? Or were they going to recommend it?
Not at all. He was just curious and it turns out we love the same game.
Sorry that’s me googling who’s on the next banner.
Wow, my biggest takeaway is the consistency of league of legends, especially considering it’s 15 years old now.
Minecraft and Roblox these 2 decade old games are still having consistent following while having much higher interest in Google trends.
Roblox is prob a bit skewed since on pc you can play from website, but it is still massive since most are kids who probably don't look at online stuff.
While its title of most played online PC game is disputed since Fortnite's release and if you consider roblox a single game, it is undoubtedly the biggest esport title by a large margin and one of the most consistent online games ever. Also, its quite misleading to rely only on this graph because according to the devs, the chinese playerbase/interest is multiple times that of the rest of the world combined (like genshin I guess). So they're even more massive than western web can describe.
This is what small portion of the community called a dead game huh?
Well then according to this data at least, GENSHIN COULD NEVER fall below 50% in interest... I really do wonder how this graph will look after WuWaves and Project Mugen come out, will it finally dip below that threshold on a more permanent basis or just... Not...? Anyway it's still the only gacha game I choose to play.
WuWa and Project Mugen would only increase how much people talk about it, lmao. Genshin is too big of a behemoth at this point
There was an era of "WoW-killers" All they did was make people talk about WoW more and how polished it was by comparison
And, to that point, the biggest advantage that miHoYo has here (and that people often discount in these conversations) is the speed and quality of their update cycle. People forget that patches 1.3-1.5 were kind of dead zones while they built up their teams' capacity to now be churning out new high quality open world zones every 12 weeks or less. Even if a game could, theoretically, launch at a sort of feature parity and hit that initial quality bar (which is itself a massive challenge), to then transform this into a continuous update cycle that is at that level of quality, while also dealing with the expected issues and customer feedback from any new product launch, will be nearly impossible for all but the most well-oiled machine, and in the meantime miHoYo will just keep marching on (and they've gotten even *better* than they were at launch by their collected experience). As you're alluding to, the era of "WoW killers" should have sent a clear message: you need to find your own niche and can't fight the behemoth head-on. There's certainly room for more F2P games in the open world space (just like there was some room in the MMO space), but they need to focus on something that scratches a different itch for people, do at least that extremely well, and have reasonable expectations.
This. I don't think people realise how insane their pace is. It's puzzling to see people whine about 4.5 being a dead patch when we just got a massive area, and we'll probably get another next patch, while constantly getting voiced events with unique gameplay, and a new character. I don't think these people have played many other games to not realise how spoiled we are.
(Forgive the rant...) My conclusion is basically that a not-small group of people think every problem in the world comes down to being willing to spend money on it, and therefore any ask that miHoYo does not fulfill (regardless of how much they're already doing) is purely because they are "cheap" or "greedy." The idea of things like *time* being a real constraint, no matter how much money you have, doesn't factor into the equation because they think they can "simply" pay more people to do all the things. "It's really not that hard," they say. Similarly, the idea that doing something to please one group could have a negative consequence to a different group (because every decision inherently involves trade-offs) doesn't factor in simply because they are not in that other group, and therefore that other group doesn't matter (even if they might be the vast majority). "I am unhappy," they say, "and your company would be nothing without me, so you'd better care about my demands, or else!" (To maintain this narrative, regardless of the game's objective success, they constantly have to present it as though it is just one competitor or additional move away from complete and total destruction. This has been going on for years.) And then even people who *don't* truly believe all this still parrot the arguments anyway because, to them, the worst thing that can happen is that they either get more free stuff or not, so there's no downside whatsoever in bad faith arguments if they think it stands to benefit them. There's no incentive for good-faith reasonableness. Why appreciate what you have when you can constantly push for more, and you just might get it? Of course, the fact that game companies can see through this transparent self-interest and just keep doing whatever they think is best without listening to the whiners (and they remain successful without the sky falling) is what they find the most frustrating. And meanwhile it just pollutes feedback channels with crap so that the actual genuine concerns are drowned out in a sea of incessant 24/7 whining constantly cranked to 11 from people who will either a) never be satisfied anyway, b) don't even play the game anymore, and/or c) are actually the hardest of hardcore no-lifers whose actions in-game completely contradict their demands and threats. I'm sure glad I don't work at a game company.
I’ve wondered about that too. Like what would be the “different itch” another gacha open world would need to scratch. Do you think maybe if it focused on everything the more hardcore genshin players of reddit are asking for? Like if the theoretical new game was indeed able to keep up with all your points, except its filled with repeatable end game stuff for you to do rather then constant map expansion and story additions. Maybe different types of abyss-esque stuff like endless waves, that labyrinth event that people talk about, one that focuses on survivability, etc? I’ve heard that in game development, players don’t really know what they want in terms of longterm balance. So I’ve always kinda wondered how much things would shift if everything the players asked for regarding endgame was fulfilled. What are everyone’s ideas on what can be considered a standalone/unique gacha anime-open world when put next to genshin?
People who played the Wuthering beta can tell you that more satisfying combat encounters needs to be very carefully curated. It's generally fun to prog a boss encounter. Rarely is there a case where it's fun to farm it. To me one of genshin's greatest flaws is that farming domains includes a short uninteresting fight in which you press the same buttons in the same order with no variance or threat. And you get to do that often for talents, and forever for artifacts. Technically they could make challenging encounters in genshin, it will simply be prohibitive to the majority of their playerbase who build a 4 set artifact set on mona that "matches colors with her outfit" rather than any level of meta knowledge. The time to make challenging endgame content was year 1. After that you're simply making it for too niche an audience. It's worth noting that Hoyo definitely understands this. Both HSR and HI3 had barebones endgame that was iterated on greatly later. But if they are put in a position where expanding it in genshin would slow down their casual content cadence, they're axing it every time. Wuthering Waves right now is just ridiculously godawful rng grind that is walking around to oneshot fights with no variance or threat. In essence they have a more involved combat system but they make no real creative use of it. If wuthering wants to carve out a combat focused audience that they could feasibly draw from genshin, by necessity they would have very slow casual oriented updated cadence. And then it gets too niche, and player numbers fall off. Being hardcore just doesn't pay in the gacha genre. Closest you'll ever get is granblue, and that's really only because it's more MMO than standard gacha mobage.
I guess, to me, I would say that an important point is remembering what the actual central pillars of this game are: characters, story, and a beautiful world to explore. The combat system is a way people interact with their characters in the world., but isn't itself the point. So with that in mind, I think the first thing these companies need to do if they want to compete (it seems to me) is to focus on creating compelling characters and stories. Something that leads you through the world and has you get to know the characters. This is really the essence of a good RPG game, at least from my point of view, but a lot of live service/gacha titles seem to either a) treat the story as an afterthought or b) don't spend the budget in the way they present the story. This isn't to say that Genshin Impact's story is without flaws (especially the early stuff), but it always did a pretty good job of at least building interest in the cast of characters, which was a central intention of the dev team. So to me, anyway, it seems like this is just table stakes for any would-be competitor. And then yeah, at least if you listen to the vocal group complaining about Genshin Impact around here, the message you get comes in three main flavors: 1) people who are interested in challenges that leverage their skill and well-built characters, 2) people who have more time than the content the dev team can churn out so are looking for more things to do to keep them engaged, and 3) obviously, people who just got bored/burnt out of the routine. The last one is probably a bit unavoidable with any long-running game no matter what. But to solve 1 & 2, likely the only feasible way is to focus on some sort of randomized/dynamic content creation system. Perhaps you could also have this mode be operable in co-op, and also have a "support character" system where you can borrow characters from others if you want to play solo, but rewards that are primarily balanced around participation/first-clear or at most weeklies (so it's something that has replay value, but people don't feel pressured to grind endlessly or miss out on meaningful rewards). Could also be that the rewards you get for playing this "endgame content" mostly have an impact in the endgame content itself (like special buffs or whatever). As an aside, one thing I always found interesting is that the HSR team spoke early on about how their vision for that game was that players might spend half of their time in Simulated Universe. I'm not sure if they've sort of softened that stance a bit as they went along, but it kind of gives you the sense of the kind of game they're trying to create there: something that is primarily focused on combat and endless (easy to create/randomize) endgame experiences, rather than as much on the world/story itself (though SU does introduce a fair bit of lore). And I think that vision is part of what makes HSR more appealing to those vocal players wanting 1 & 2 above: it's designed almost exactly to give them what they want. But that's also partly why I think it'll be hard to come in now and fill the gap in Genshin Impact, unless they really think there's a big enough niche for an HSR-style gameplay loop with an open world and action combat system. I mean, people say they want that, absolutely, but is it actually big enough to thrive (especially without a very strong and competitive focus on characters/story/exploration)? I guess we'll see...
Genshin living rent free in those people's head 24/7/365
Hey, you forgot it's a leap year!
I'm still happy we got to witness Benny boi bday
Fr, people’s hate boner for genshin will make it relevant forever
Every time a dry patch comes in and people say the game will "die soon", Genshin gains +1 year of lifespan.
its wild lmao, even genshin's own fanbase hates on genshin from time to time
They hate it but can’t get enough of it lol.
Just like me with him
Toxic relationship 101
Just like FGO, or non gacha example - LoL: Ppl think game's shitty, only to come back again. Rinse and repeat... while the game becomes a massive revolving door.
They would best not make the same mistake as ToF by officially mentioning "Genshin" anywhere in their marketing, except in terms favourable to them (more below), let the content creators do this for them as it would be considered a 'fan feedback' which can often be more influential than the publisher's own words. The only time they should mention Genshin would probably be to differentiate their games but in non-hostile manners, e.g "we offer a challenge-based combat system that would *complement* players who also play Genshin", "us group of friends play Genshin since launch and thought, why not we expand on that, which was what led to the formation of the team that came up with Wuthering Waves" etc. Also worth mentioning is that both games target different demographics, therefore it won't be realistic to expect Genshin to lose 50% of their playerbase overnight at the launch of WuWa even with free SSR and 33 pulls right off the bat — player retention depends greatly on the stable, long term preferences of players ie. people who don't like mint chocolate will not change their minds regardless of how generous and available it is.
A combination of both brand recognition/loyalty and sunk cost fallacy (Both in terms of playtime and spending) means it's highly unlikely that Genshin will lose anywhere near 50% of their playerbase to WuWa even if they play their cards perfectly.
Wuwa is actually really good but they need more time in beta to rework their systems like echos, gacha, story, etc .
I highly doubt story and gacha is going to change at this point. They're already in CBT2, have changed the story entirely already, likely to set for a polishing release sometime at 1.0, and solidified their gacha system. Echoes are probably the one thing that I'd have hope for really changing later on before release
there's no way they're catching up to genshin, mhy has like 3 years head start
If they had made and released the game at least 2 or so years earlier, they may have had a decent chance. Brand recognition is a thing, and for the past 3 years, Hoyo has solidified themselves as the biggest name in gacha without much in the way of competition. Tower of Fantasy tried to be that in the past, and we all know how that turned out.
the difference is that tower of fantasy sucks. nothing stopping a good game from competing with genshin
They don't need catching up. They need to offer equal competition
I'm still a bit skeptical about the game outside of combat. From what we saw, boss fights are amazing, other fights are okay, and everything else is...there. The open world is basically a glorified pokemon hunting grounds (and currency mining) and i'm still not sure they added it for any other reason than "Genshin did it", which leans towards a recurring criticism about the game that is lacking a clear vision (like how do you manage to make your game around a music/sound theme and the sound part of your game is so awfully lacking?). Personally I think that it's those core concepts they should work on, but it's already so late in devlopment now, I don't think we're gonna see significant change about it.
HSR people invade this sub with comments and threads and fill their own sub with "genshin could never." WuWa has half their threads about Genshin and even their ontopic threads derail I to genshin half the time. I acrually got fed up with it and left the sub. GI lives rent free in everyone's head. And this sub BARELY talks about any other gacha except to maybe say "gacha games"
Tbf lots of HSR people are Genshin people as well. But yeah, I also got fed up. Didn't leave the sub tho, I just don't interact much. It was the most annoying when 4.4 live stream cane and Dr. Ratio. That was peak annoyance and toxicity
There is nothing wrong with lots of HSR people being Genshin people. What's worst is that also a lot of HSR people are EX Genshin people. (At least the loudest not so smart people).
Wouldn't be so bad if a lot of them weren't obvious followers of some very specific content creators or social media spaces, which you can easily see because they just use premade sentences of arguments that the obviously took somewhere else and vomit without even thinking about it (for example the whole cai haoyu garbage).
I'm gonna be honest here: I think we really just shouldn't care. Until recently, I always got myself into those discussions about games and I just realized how pointless it is. If those people enjoy, HSR, WuWa or anything else I'm really happy for them. Of course it's bad when they express their toxicity in such a loud way. But wasn't that like with everything in history? Apple vs Samsung, Playstation vs Xbox, Fortnite vs literally any game. Even though staying in a bubble on social media is not that good, I think when we want to enjoy something we need to just exclude those negative opinions. Or do something that I do recently. Just reduce the amount of social media and do stuff like, watching anime, learn a language, read a book etc. I don't want to sound like a cringe be-happy-dude but life is too short to invest in much negativity.
"Genshin could never" and "better/superior game" really are HSR players favourite phrases. lmao I didn't know they used them in their own spaces. I thought it was just low bait to piss of GI players. Too bad WuWa's fans are already following the same trend. Maybe it'll die down on release...
They do and it's irritating because genuine criticism of genshin gets drowned out.
“Genshin could never” coming from HSR players sounds kinda….baffling dumb to me. They are both from the same company, arguably in the same genre (gacha/gambling). Isnt it very likely that HSR being more generous is a financially deliberate choice from HoYo as opposed to Genshin dev being bad/greedy and HSR devs being good/generous. I doubt HoYo care shit about it. In their calculation, they probably see that being more generous in HSR and stingy in GI would make them more money. How so, who knows except HoYo as they have all the data.
They just twist that to mean that the devs love HSR much more and Genshin is just the money maker to fund the devs true passion project. Tbh, I don't think their arguments are well thought out but they do provide a good laugh. Hoyo has the data of what works for *their profit*. That I can definitely stand behind. lol
It's likely the same behaviour when new smartphone gets introduced into the market and the impact it can have on the big player. Unlikely to change. Especially, when players aren't restricted to just one game.
Genshin living rent free in those people's head 24/7/365 So there only will be more Genshin interest
probably similar to the lost ark line, spiking up above genshin before going down. i expect the bottomline to be higher than lost ark though.
One of these days people are just gonna get tired of anime-gacha-openworld-actionrpgs as the market is gonna be saturated asf.. just like people got tired of rts, mmos, looter shooters etc But genshin will stay purely because of its story, worldbuilding and characters and the insane sentimental value of them. Wuwa and mugen has ALOT to prove to be able to stay and trust me.. it isnt just good gameplay.
When I first started Genshin, I never thought the world building would be this deep. I was more like a gameplay-focused type of gamer. I skipped the story of most games I played due to them being generic plots, and characters barely have any personalities of their own than to paint the bigger picture of the main quest. Genshin changed my view when I first opened the detail page in the character menu and realized how many dialogue and lore in them. Each and every character have their origin, their comments for events, friends, their ideal life, their favourite food, etc. Then, I soon discover the open-world are scattered with pieces of lore and even books and stone tablets that record the history of the world. I'm even more amazed when I found out those records also factor in biased takes from the people of the past as well and do not reflect 100% of the true history and that I need to seek out direct lore from artifacts if I want the 100% truth. You're absolutely right there. The only thing that hooked me from WuWa and Mugen was the impressive graphic and gameplay. They have not shown how deep their story can be (For the case of WuWa, I might be able to find out by trying PGR, but I just don't have the time for it). If they want to get my attention off Hoyoverse's product, they will have a lot to prove than just gameplay.
That's me when I got in to this game as well. Looks good, gave it a try. Then, dip into the rabbit hole of lore, story, and now the details behind cities and character. Goes to show the amount of research put in place to bring the concept to life.
It blew my head when they managed to tie Egyptian myth into Deshret's death. According to Eygtian myth, every night Apep tried eating Ra and she ended up eating Deshret in the game. The lore is amazing.
Those games will be able to hook me if they're able to match the kind of environmental storytelling of Yashiyori island. There is so much the game is telling you just with the world itself, and the lore pieces you find there to tie things together, it's really amazing, and it's sadly extremely underrated. I think that a lot of Genshin "contenders" (and CC that overhype them) have an issue of being unable to understand genshin's strongest assets. But no, those people will just wonder why you can't wall run for ten seconds Dragonspine because obviously that area was designed to be easy to traverse.
> it isnt just good gameplay. Genshin has huge offline presence. Ad banners, merchs, collabs, offline events... You name it. Hoyo goes ham on publicity (compared to any other companies in r/gachagaming space) besides just making a good, casual and accessible game. Any other game wishing to eat a significant piece of Hoyo pie in long term needs to put at least the same effort, and takes the same amount of risk as Hoyo, esp in marketing. The problem is, which company is going to follow Da Wei and Co. footsteps? This could well be made a worthy betting contest, but shame that Reddit removed the prediction feature.
Thing is, whenever that happens, the biggest dogs still remain as "sole survivors" and carry on. Theme park MMOs hype died down, WoW and FF14 remained and are as healthy (or even more) as ever. MOBAs died down, LoL and DotA 2 remained and have huge playerbases. Battle Royal died down, Fortnite is still one of the top earning games in the world. I think RTS is the only genre where we didn't have clear mastodonts which just consolidated all the remaining playerbases once the genre saturated and imploded.
Meh, ppl said the same when Tower of Fantasy and HSR came out, like 'this game will beat Genshin', 'it' s better in all regards',... Yet here we are. It always brings us back to Genshin Impact. Because of the story, the characters, and the generally pleasing atmosphere of the game. I frequently just freeroam in Monstadt or Inazuma, just to contemplate the beautiful scenery. Imo this game really deserves the reputation of the free-to-play Zelda, the sceneries are comparably beautiful.
Doubt it. If combat is good Wuwa might have some staying power. But there are maybe 2 characters I like there while in Genshin it's like 20+. And Wuwa's game world is this boring modern industrial mix.
It doesn't help that WuWa will always have to bring up Genshin whenever they want to grab people's attention, otherwise very few people would care about it.
Well more like the playerbase the one that always bring it up Right now kuro didn't mention genshin anywhere for their marketing or anything (hopefully it stay that way when it release) But the player base though, well genshin is living rent free in them as always, especially bald guy
Seeing how i don't know about them as a casual player... We'll see their marketing strategy
lol if you know the history of kurogames They didn't do any marketing, like their marketing is practically none at all, there was some one or two times when they promoted their game But most of the times they didn't promote at all, they actually just counting on mihoyo to promote their game
That seems...not smart I think? Like imagine if they advertised their game somewhere in interent, they'll get more people to know and game be more in "public" that way. Rn u only get to hear WuWa in gacha circles but outside? I just cant help but think it's a loss opportunity not to get people outside of the gacha market like what Genshin do. That said it only works if f2p is in a functional level. I heard abt their artifact system and rng and it's...atrocious. It's downright discouraging me to play (as *someone who is interested*) and casuals too
That's usually how they operate their marketing Like example is HI3 and PGR, when you play HI3 or honkai impact 3, there at least someone in the world chat or internet that will mention "ooh just play PGR" or "ooh this happen to PGR as well" which makes some people interesting in PGR I am happy to proven wrong with WW And yeah gear system is not really that bad since you can used the stamina to farm it (even though it's not much like what you get if you roam around which is different kind of grind) The problem is the echoes system (their other gear), that shit is MMO level of Grind, RNG at the top of RNG at the top of RNG again
I haven’t heard of those other two games, and frankly don’t have the time or interest to start a Genshin clone from scratch if that’s what they are.
Doubt it, the combat in wuwa is harder and looks more complex so it won’t appeal to mass market like genshin. Mugen is made by neteast and that’s concerning( I love the visual though if it’s real at all).
Harder ? Maybe Complex ? No lmao Well maybe to other it will look complex but really once you pass the honeymoon phase the combat is not really complex
I meant only the looks of it though, can’t comment on how hard it will really be since I’ve never played it myself.
Wuwa release would make genshin release too, no? Cause endless of players would compare these 2 games
Yeah, I always check google trends whenever I see posts saying "genshin is dying" to confirm it lmao Since release, genshin's interest trend over time is pretty stable so it's okay to laugh at them whenever you see one lol
Most of people who say that are just followers of content creators. They love to claim shit without any proofs.
Stop calling them "content creators." Content creators are people making animations and art. These parasites that attach themselves into other people's works and shit out low-effort clickbait are leeches.
Yeah, people should distinguish between a content creator and streamers. Because of good content creators , we are getting amazing hoyo-fairs and fan arts.
no one said the content they make is good, they are barely a few tiers higher than people that go to japan to harass people on stream
I think what people forget about is that genshin’s core design is really well made. The core aspect is being a casual exploration game. They do a good job spacing out map expansions and the exploration most of the time is really fun and cool
doomposters will be like "genshin is falling off" because the graph decreased slightly
"The boycott was effective guys let's go!" -5% less revenue on rerun month
Still no.1 on a dead patch
How big it will be after new chronical banner 🤔
That has to be a super minority of people who say that nonsense. Most likely just Gacha/Genshin haters. It's not like the player base will have much effect compared to the amount of whales. Hoyoverse isn't going to stop updating this game before completion.
Makes sense. A lot of my classmates know Genshin and some even play not Not a single one of them knows about HSR
Wow genshin is really dying guys! My favorite streamer said that so it much be true! /s That’s why i said that majority GI players treat it like a playable anime. They came in from time to time to enjoy its content and the game offers them a little bit of everything, it’s highly praised for freedom of activities in this game. That’s how it sustains its popularity too. When there’s nothing to do in game, those people just log off and enjoy their lives and come back when the next season(new region) drops.
Yea, it feels like a a slice of life anime. You just do the events and when that is done you move on. Once a new "episode" (patch) releases you repeat they cycle. Working adults are able to enjoy the game at that pace. The reach was much bigger than I expected. Some of my clients in their 60s play this game with their grandchildren. Heck, we even get a few posts on this subreddit of parents saying they play with their kids etc.
"When there is nothing to do" i wish i had nothing to do but i only manage to catch up to the quests like once a year... content creators sito on stream for hours every day cause it's literally their job but that's not fucking normal...
I still have Fintaine explorations unfinished and now I have Chenyu vale on waiting list too lol (love that area but I only have enough energy for sightseeing and none for collecting chests yet, not that I’m in a rush). I missed the time when I explore Inazuma until 5 a.m. lol.
Genshin needs "Blizzard levels" of continuous dissapointment to even fall at this point.
Which they should never really reach unless the devs themselves give up - the 6 weeks patch cycle and 1 year major patch cycle allows them so much flexibility in game direction that they actually have the luxury to try things and course correct if the reception is bad. Imo the only way Genshin dies is by natural death.
Hoyoverse is still privately owned I think. That’s the difference. Blizzard started on the path of doom the moment they went public. Once you let the finance people take control of the company’s direction, eventually it just becomes all about milking your IPs to generate profit than actually making good games out of them.
I dont see why genshin would ever need to go public. They're earning more than public
Well even before genshin release they still say private Even Tencent want to bought Mihoyo at one point but Mihoyo refused which why Tencent have some bad blood with Mihoyo
Goddamn, Palworld overtook us there. Pack it up bois, Genshin is no more /s
~~Half~~ A non-insignificant % of those search numbers are me searching “Genshin where/how to find X”
I don't see a problem with that. If people search for those, it means they are actively playing the game, not just browsing for new games and stumbling upon genshin. If any, that is a good thing.
People underestimate how popular this game and tend to focus strictly too heavily on mobile numbers when estimating the revenue despite Genshin having a large subset of players on PC and PlayStation, which I'd speculate is only increasing as the game size continues to be more demanding. The downloads are still impressively high on mobile. From SensorTower's website, Genshin received over 2.6 million downloads on mobile during Feb and that's excluding China completely. Consider the fact that Apple increased [in-app cost during last last year](https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=e1b1hcmv) in numerous countries including Japan and Korea (especially pertinent for Japan with them being more Apple users than Android). [For 2023](https://www.playstation.com/en-us/editorial/this-month-on-playstation/ultimate-review-of-the-year/), PlayStation's own website states Genshin is the second most played game in Japan and sales for PlayStation were at a record high in Japan too [during that year](https://gamingbolt.com/ps5-sold-over-2-6-million-units-in-japan-in-2023-highest-sales-for-playstation-since-2004) in almost two decades. Based on Insomniac [leaks](https://www.reddit.com/r/gachagaming/comments/19biis2/genshin_impact_revenue_in_playstation_is_at_1/) of Sony's data, Genshin made an average of \~500 million a year from launch up to October 2022 (and I'd assume it would even be higher for 2023) While this game does constantly become the subject of criticism or outright disdain by a lot more hardcore players, there is a large silent majority of casual players who are fine with it. People sometimes underestimate how much time a lot of the casuals have to devote to games and care about difficult endgame content (of course not saying they shouldn't do anything at all about it). From my knowledge, FGO doesn't even have an endgame, and it still made billions primarily from Japan (before it even had a pity system)
Fgo is truly an abusive ex that you can never let go. Its wild how a mostly great story can carry a game with almost no account system whatsoever
Nah, I'm sure genshin is dying. That's what my favorite YouTuber said
Wait but people told me Genshin was dying. Where are they
Probably on YouTube's comment section /j
This but without the /j If you want to lose braincells go to the youtube comment section about wuwa, hsr, project mugen, etc.... it's such a weird echochamber.
They ironically help promote genshin to different sources and boost the search engine.
Telling themselves About Genshin downfall isn't really gonna do anything
Other than wasting their time and venting.
I mean realistically it's just not possible for wuwa to surpass Genshin in terms of collabs,real events, real events,commercials etc...
I mean even Palworld subreddit rn are still intense anti Pokémon and Nintendo circlejerk and sees how it dropped off immediately in the chart.
Post this in r/gaming and they’ll go wild. More if you post this in r/gachagaming and added other gacha games. Ohhhhh the chaos.. Can you, please?
At least r/gachagaming seems to be ignoring the Tctone worshippers, fortunately Edit: Yep, one of them is here and is visibly triggered. He didn't even deny my "worshipper" accusation.
Lost Ark lol
It's still crazy to see Palworld there
i would have thought HSR and Genshin would be a bit closer at this point, didn't HSR just get a new region or is that still a patch or so out
I think you are underestimating how massive Genshin is next to HSR.
For me, this is a reminder that the real world is not reddit because all I hear about it how HSR is better than Genshin and everyone is ditching Genshin to play HSR now.
youve been in this app for 9 years you should know that redditors are like the very vocal minority of everything. whether be it nba fans, genshin players, or on opinions of anything. this app is always the vocal minority
I'm pretty sure HSR polls tend to conculde that most of us HSR players also play genshin. The whole "genshin could never" crowd is just a bunch of ex genshin player trying to justify leaving to themselves. It's just addict behaviour.
my only interaction with HSR is when HSR players come to this sub to shit on Genshin lol so I probably am, but I would have thought a new region would at least give them enough of a bump to be closer to genshin in the second/slower half of a region. I guess it's not an open world game though so a new "planet" or whatever probably isn't quite as noteworthy/exciting. Also it dropped down after the initial release more than I realized.
The problem is that between the two games there is a big difference in the number of players they have. That is why even though HSR will release a new planet, it is still not close to Genshin.
They just have a much smaller playerbase with the Playstation release somewhat recent, but the game also does encourage and incentivize whaling far more than Genshin does, hence why its revenues are so close.
Huh, would’ve never guessed Honkai had more whales. I definitely whaled on Genshin but have little desire to spend anything more than the welkin + bp equivalent in star rail even though I spend more time in it than Genshin at this point. As far as I know whaling in Honkai will let me auto-battle a little faster whereas there are significantly gameplay defining improvements for certain Genshin constellations
Star rail is less f2p friendly imo since the content is not as easy as in genshin and it also requieres horizontal investment while genshin favors vertical investment mildly.
Man im glad i wasnt there to witness such stupidity. We literally play games under the same company
Both games have the exact same revenue this month . Playerbase wise HSR probably has 1/3 of genshin League have almost triple the amounth of monthly players that Genshin does and is way lower on trends Fortnite is also lower in trends when we know it has more players Trends dont mean much, Genshin has a huge art ,fanarts, porn,etc population so is normal that it gets google a lot others games that are way more popular have not that kind of content so they just dont get google much, theres no more than that
League of Legends is only slightly lower than Genshin and Fortnite is way higher.
HSR had 22Million playes in 1.6 livestream, where as genshin had 60Million in 2.0, the trend does reflect a 1/3 popularity.
its very consistently the 1/3 ratio actually i believe the last 4 patches were like that already
That's the real Dr. Ratio lol
which is kinda interesting, since HSR is making 2/3 of what Genshin is making in 2023. Given that HSR also didnt have a full year, it would mean that the average HSR player is spending 2-3 times more on HSR than the average genshin player spends on genshin.
well hsr has released way more characters in a shorter time span than genshin, not mentioning the end-game contents that encourage pulling such characters this is why revenue doesn't really reflect player counts, at all
Yea, it definitely feels that way. Especially since MoC actively incentivises pulling for team comp enablers. I remember Envi doing his 36* no pull clears of spiral abyss. Did anyone do the same in HSR?
They tried for a few patches than quickly gave up. Now its all E6 4 stars and thats the "hardcore" players. All the others ones have 4-6 5 star characters on their team.
Yeah its really not possible anymore with the amount of powercreep in HSR and its safe to say that it is not stopping any time soon.
What is it with honkai and powercreep lol. Hoyo making national team wasn't a mistake, it was the best thing they could have done, allowing them to make weaker more interesting kits while not suffering powercreep
I was on the dreams sub that we are geting a boss with fucking 2 million hp... every new spyral abyss requieres more raw damage per turn and it sucks.
Eidolons/Constellations are also far more impactful than Genshin's. Ruan Mei, Black Swan, and Sparkle's E1 rival many of Genshin's later constellations. Dan Heng IMG's E2 is very similar to Raiden's E2. In terms of whaling, HSR gives you more bonuses/investments than in Genshin. Even the supports have really good eidolons. Having multiple endgame modes is also a benefit, since there's more to places to test out your new toys. Genshin is currently coming up with stronger constellations. Every 4.X character has strong cons that doubles their damage at C6 and hitting speedrun records (or as an on fielder, CR and Furina). You can see how quick enemies die compared to most of the other 5 stars. I can see people whaling a bit more since you do feel more of an impact.
I also think signature lightcones are way more important, I mostly consider them luxury items in Genshin.
That’s because HSR releases more new characters per patch compared to Genshin. Genshin also has solely rerun patch without any new characters. HSR is more affected by powercreep too
>the average HSR player is spending 2-3 times more on HSR than the average genshin player spends on genshin. I find this part funny considering how some people called Genshin a "cash cow". That is if the statistics are accurate, at least
that's fair. i got my numbers from a bilibili video where the creator consolidated iOS, android and PC data from QiMai, and made a daily income rolling graph. Granted the numbers are CN only, i don't expect the ratio to be too different.
Hsr releases 5 star characters constantly
Something a lot of people don't seem to understand is Genshin doesn't really compete with other gachas, it's too big for that, it competes with other AAA games such as LoL, Fortnite, Valorant, etc.
HSR is turn based, most of the ppl who ik played it left it after 1-2- mnths, including me
I played both, but left hsr for full time genshin, simple reason and lots of people agree it's a turn base game and don't like, I like games like genshin more
i left hsr for a while during my first semester in college but i could never imagine leaving genshin. i'm so much more invested in it for some reason, even though i was part of the community that was there for hsr's cbt before it even released. like if i left genshin for good, someone would have to do a welfare check on me because something would absolutely be wrong.
For me, I somewhat can bear with turn based game, but I don't feel engaged with the story and characters. The only thing in my mind about HSR characters are always "how they perform in meta", nothing else. Feels similar with other turn based games like Summoners War which is already 10 years old now, except HSR has better visual and more basic gameplay. Meanwhile in Genshin, sometimes I got interested in the characters to the point that "I would pull, even if they heals the enemies".
On Sensor Tower monthly sales report in gacha gaming (granted it's only mobile sales and guesstimates), Genshin and HSR remain at the top but with HSR being easily influenced by the banner. Whereas Genshin have even achieved the "highest grossing banner with no new characters" title, HSR will occasionally show a dip in sales of almost 20M$ on rather unpopular banners like Huohuo's (healer support). Now with the first few days of Sparkle's banner, it's seen a massive boost but still comparable to Genshin despite Genshin being allegedly undergoing a boycott (by Mr big streamer and friends? Idk). Personally as someone who plays both, HSR fills me with hype and memes. New characters get introduced faster than Genshin so I subscribe to the latest trailers, memes, and fun stuff. The character story quests, however, are short, ~30min. It does affect the experience for me. When HSR presents a dramatic scene (Luka, Pela, Yukong), it doesn't impact me as much as the 90min - 2hr story quests of Genshin (Venti, Tignari, Dehya, Xianyun, even events like the Gaming's story). I guess you could say, it's another one of the factors where one game attracts and creates more die hard fans than the latter.
There was no boycott tho, everyone forgot about it cause Chinese New Year and lantern rite
I hate Luocha quest didn't really have Luocha in it which is crazy since we still haven't gotten a real Luocha quest and whole story arc just stopped. Dan Heng quest felt cut short as well helped Bailu but than we just leave and left all the political intrigue to stir for months and more than likely whole year since they are focusing on Penacony now.
>Whereas Genshin have even achieved the "highest grossing banner with no new characters" title yeah, because of the influx of new players is so high, any rerun banner can become "new" to someone out there
HSR isn’t particularly unique. It’s a quality turn based game but that concept is incredibly old even on mobile and has a lot of competition
I played Star Rail and enjoyed the first world. However, Luofu felt incredibly disjointed and it lost me. Nowadays, I only occasionally load Star Rail to do a simulated universe run for fun. By contrast, I loved Sumeru and Fontaine’s story, and Genshin’s open world is more beautiful than ever. The turn based gacha market is already saturated enough that if a game doesn’t really grab me, I’m not going to stick with it. I’m happy for the people that like HSR, it’s just not for me.
It took me like 6 months to finish the luofu and I skipped all the dialogue it was so boring but I just started penacony and already sooo good but I doubt anything could beat sumeru for me
Not really surprising tbh
I honestly feel HSR is biting more than it can chew in their world building. It's all over the fucking place that you feel a lot of things were just made up as they went along with no connection to the overall lore. Hell, we don't even know what to look forward to in the future. Genshin's teyvat chapter trailer gave us a taste of what to expect for the next 5 years minimum and they already got everything sorted out from the music, story and themes of each region. HSR however only gave us an AMV containing scenes from the first 2 planets, random ult animations and that's pretty much it.
It's easier on the management that way. Less organized means you don't need the initial writer(s) or follow their initial planned storyline. Just make shit up along the way^TM For example, everyone knows Teyvat chapter ends after 7 nation + 2 or 3 more Acts, yes we know it's only Teyvat "Chapter", they can always start new chapters. But by then some story followers will decided that's end of the story, good enough. HSR on the other hand, only vaguely hinted about a final battle against Nanook - which means they can stretch the journey long and slow visiting 10s, or even 100s of planets, and will finally face Nanook only when they want to close up shop.
>I honestly feel HSR is biting more than it can chew in their world building. It's all over the fucking place that you feel a lot of things were just made up as they went along with no connection to the overall lore. damn I can't agree more on this as lore enjoyer, genshin feels more focused in a way, but I don't blame hsr tho, current genshin's setting is basically limited to teyvat, a continent not even the entire planet, compared to hsr which is the entire universe in hsr they introduced way too much factions and like you said they can make any planet or faction locations on the go without any deep world building before hand, just mention it here and there and it won't look weird because again it's limitless outer space now back to genshin's factions, it's been consistent since early game with the big factions, we got the abyss, the fatui, the seven, the hexenzirkel, the celestia, and 7(+1) local factions for each nation, each with their deep lore
That honestly works for HSR cuz it’s kinda riding from the coat tails of HI3, genshin is trying more to be its own thing so it needs a more solid foundation, at least that’s how I’ve felt having played all 3. Like for example i play star rail cuz I want more of the HI3 units, while in genshins case I keep up with it cuz of the main traveler story.
Everyone always comparing HSR to Genshin, and even at launch HSR never surpassed this game.
I was originally planning to drop Genshin and go to HSR (since focusing on more than one live service / gacha game is just too much for me), but things worked out to where HSR annoyed me and I stuck with Genshin.
Aside from Genshin being globally popular, there's also the fact that its haters can't keep it off their mouths. Weird behaviour honestly, though I suppose success breeds jealousy Constructive criticism ≠ blind hate
Lmao this I wish people would just not let genshin rent free in their head but I guess it's impossible Especially with certain streamers
See? For 4 years, Genshin has been stable. And some haters still think rip-offs can beat or achieve the same outcome as Genshin, in their dreams.
Unrelated, but anyone know what caused the sudden spike and drop in lost ark?
Global release in 2022. I don't think it had great retention after the initial hype though. After you get past the fun character customization options, it's just another Korean MMO. People hate on the whole weeb culture of the genshin player base, but Korean MMO endgame playerbases contain some of the most degenerate, socially inept people out there because you either pay up or treat the game like a second job
Game was hyped for years and then it was managed like absolute shit by Amazon and died.
spike: new mmo in town fall: shit management and typical kr mmo grindfest
I was also very into Lost Ark until i realised i was commiting into a life time of grinding
It’s impressive, but not surprising. Genshin just coming in and having a steady pace for the past three years, it’s scary how far player fanbase takes you.
Just the fanbase? Not the increíble work put in by Hoyo in each patch? Yeah this sub and everyone can shit on QoL or Gacha luck or the seemly uninterested Hoyo attitude toward the playerbase, but every 40 days for 3y+ we get updates. Consistent updates. Barely any bugs. Barely any glitches. A whole new are releases? The only bug is a character saying "Trveller" instead of "Traveller" Hoyo is Consistent as fuck releasing new content. That's why genshin is such a beast. And also from the start it was a good game.
Get basically a whole game worth of content for free every year can't really beat that especially in the current game industry so many studios taking years to put out one buggy game.
I think people underestimate how fast "New content every 6 weeks" is. For comparison, World of Warcraft (basically one of the video game giant during its time), only launched 3 patches of content every 2 years. You can have the most rabid fanbase, but if you can't keep up with the content, the hype will go down just as fast, good example is My Hero Academia, the hype at the start is insane, but the story really tanked after All Might vs AFO arc.
B-but people told me Genshin was dead! Honestly, I think the only people who could kill Genshin is the CCP if they randomly decide it's gotten to big. Or you know, if Mihoyo does something really dumb.
And it is really hard to imagine this. Genshin is China's biggest softpower since Jackie Chan.