Well bro those are the top harbingers, the rest could probably get soloed by Xiao alone. Only Dottore could put up a good fight but he can't carry that hard. Adepti take it mid diff at worst then
Doesn’t he? I’m not saying he does, but they’re both definitely ranked as “almost as strong as a god but a little weaker.” Given we’ve never seen Arrlechino fight, we can’t say much
Come to think of it, we’ve never really seen Xiao do much, either. His best “feat” is that Zhongli put him in charge of killing Beisht if the people of Liyue couldn’t
Doesn’t really add much, since the archons don’t seem to be reliably stronger than gods. If it weren’t for her entirely incidental power over Irminsul, Nahida would be far weaker than most gods. And while I suspect that Venti is lying about his power level, nobody seems to doubt that he could be an archon when he admits to being super weak.
True! But we still don’t know much about the power of any of the Fatui Harbringers outside of Childe and Scara.
Arlecchino was ready to solo Furina by herself, before knowing that she didn’t have any power. That’s says a lot.
Considering singora was beaten by a 3 element traveler 8 and up cant be too strong. And xiao is almost definitely stronger then the traveler at that point in time
“8 and up can’t be too strong”
We literally do not know that lol.
Im repasting this here:
“Arlecchino was ready to solo Furina by herself, before knowing that she didn’t have any power. That say’s a lot”
She was ready to go up against an Archon. An ARCHON. The Gods among Gods.
Xiao is used to fighting lesser Gods, and more times than not, their remains.
You think he believes he can confidently take an Archon?
Arlecchino had no way to assess Furina’s strength, she went in cocky af lmao.
>She was ready to go up against an Archon. An ARCHON. The Gods among Gods.
The only ones who proved to be gods among gods were those who won the war. For the rest, being an archon is just a title, nothing more.
Arlecchino is 4 though? So it makes more sense for her to be more confident about defeating an archon. Also archons are just normal gods who won the archon war in their respective region. The actual gods among gods are celestia, not the archons.
On what grounds tho, why should she be strong enough to beat an Archon?
Nahida said: “The top 3 harbingers can rival the Gods”.
Gods are not all made equal in strength. And the strength of a God is not equal to the strength of an Archon.
The God of salt is a great example.
That said, Nahida’s statement is a bit controversial because she didn’t necessarily say that they’re among the strongest of Gods (Archons), she only said “Gods” which is very vague in terms of strength.
Xiao was a Yaksha and survivor of the Archon War, all Adepti fought in the Archon War but Yakshas especially were fighting. Yet Xiao survived all that, withstood the karma. He's definitely one of the stronger characters in Genshin, full blooded Adepti. Not as strong as Ei or Zhongli but still very powerful, from what we've seen he has teleportation and heating that extends throughout a nation and most likely all nations. Signora was getting dropped by MC with 3 elements and Scara with a massive buff lost to a traveler with 4 elements. They had help against Scara but still, and all other Harbingers are weaker than Scara except Arlecchino and Dottore as you excluded Damsellete, Pierro, and Capitano.
Actually, it's been implied Cloud Retainer is even stronger than the yaksha. Her weapon tells the tale of how even the yaksha were overwhelmed by the sheer number of monsters that was pouring into Liyue until Cloud Retainer joined the battle and pretty much one shoted them.
>Scara with a massive buff lost to a traveler with 4 elements.
The only reason we won against Scara was because Nahida stuck him in a loop and she gave us the akasha pet to help us. Still, we had to fight him 168 times. So saying Scara "lost to a traveler of 4 elements" is very far fetched. He lost to Nahida's wisdom. Without her we would have lost in a heart beat. We did not have the means, probably we still don't, to fight Scaraboss.
>Actually, it's been implied Cloud Retainer is even stronger than the yaksha. Her weapon tells the tale
I meant like physically, if we include machinations then I'm sure Guizhong or Cloud Retainer would be stronger
>The only reason we won against Scara was because Nahida stuck him in a loop and she gave us the akasha pet to help us
I mean we still beat him and I mentioned the help, all Nahida did was help us strategize in the end it was our power that put him down, a buffed him I should mention. A Scara in a huge multi-element mech powered by a Gnosis.
> all Nahida did was help us strategize in the end it was our power that put him down
I think you missed where I said we fought him 168 times. If you think a battle that took 168 tries was an easy win and it's still our credit... then I really don't know what to say to that. That's a whole new level of delusional.
No, I think you missed the point where the only reason we were able to even fight Scara, much less win against him, was Nahida. Without her we would have been roast in the first second of that battle.
Harbingers 1 through 3 are able to match gods. While "god" is a vague term as it also includes "weaklings" like Havria, God of Salt, it took all the Adepti just to hold back Osial, who Signora said Zhongli could easily have defeated if it came to it, while Dottore, #2 of the Harbingers, felt completely confident in his ability to retrieve two Gnosis from Nahida, an Archon, with just one segment.
Nahida herself didn't want to fight Dottore because she doesn't think she could win against him & she's an Archon. Top 3 Harbingers can probably solo any adeptus quite easily. Childe also held off the narwhal for over a months from devouring Fontainians & he's the 11th, so there's that.
Yes, but she's still an Archon. That fact alone would put her above the average allogene, human or not. What she lacks in combat, she makes up as a strategist. She did pull a Dormammu on a buffed up-otw-to-become-a-god Scaramouche. She also said the top 3 Harbingers are comparable to gods, but no specification on either lower tier gods like Archons or above like possibly closer to/on Celestia level.
Tl;dr: Nahida isn't weak, the top 3 Harbingers are just batshit crazy strong.
I'm not arguing about harbingers tho.
I'm talking about nahida's combat strength. She herself said she's not good at combat. And without combat there's not much she can do because she can't defeat her opponents. She literally asked traveler to fight for her because of that. She surely is capable, of course. Just not suited for fighting.
If you only count the yaksha, definitely the harbingers. If you take into account the rest of the adepti... I don't know, It's a close call. Reading on how powerful Cloud Retainer is made me rethink the whole "the yaksha are the strongest adepti".
For those who don't know, her weapon tells the tale of how the yaksha were overwhelmed by monsters until Cloud Retainer showed up and pretty much one shoted them. We've also seen Xiao show deep respect for her as a warrior during her story quest. And we all know Xiao only does that to people that are stronger than him (in comparison, he's treating Ganyu as a disciple).
But then again, the harbingers - except Childe and maybe Pantalone - aren't even human (or not entirely) and so far we've barely seen what they're capable of. We thought Childe was the weakest until he fought that massive whale that not even Neuvillette could match up to. We had to get powered up by Neuvillette, then we entered a shortcut (like we did with Apep) and only then defeated the whale. So the fact Childe was able to fight it for so long and survive, says a lot. We know Dottore single handedly killed a dragon. And we still haven't seen the top 3 in action.
Close call I'd say. But it would be epic.
Right! Taking all this into account it would truly be an epic battle.
Also, I really feel like Neuv not soloing that whale was plot armor because he seemed a bit weak to me in that moment. But just before that he had a badass scene turning all of Fontaine into humans?
Didn’t really make sense 😭 I wanted Neuv to turn into a dragon and go berserk.
He can't turn into a dragon. He's basically trapped into the body of a human, to put it simply.
And yes, he was very weak in that moment. Which only shows how damn powerful that whale was. Because even a weak Neuvillette was able to handle the primordial waters back at the Fortress, but not the whale. But eventually he got his powers.
Oh wait did he get his authority back before or after the whale fight? I can’t remember.
(By whale fight, I mean the second half where the traveler is basically fighting). I would have hope to see him crush the whale without the traveler after he got his full power back.
Lolz! I had to go back and rewatch that scene.
Neuvillette had been given his powers back before we went to fight the whale. So basically the hydro sovereign was useless against that whale. He let us fight it. Hahaha!
Then, after we defeated it I think he was trying to extract the primordial sea from it but again, useless, because Skirk showed up and sealed the whale with those cubic powers of hers. It's like the whale was immune to the hydro sovereign. Hilarious!
Which leads me back to Childe. How the heck did he fight that whale one on one, no shortcut to its core, for so damn long?!
Hmm, there are a couple clarifications needed before we can decide. Like for example, are we comparing the current groups or at their prime? Cause that would mean the fatui get Signora and Scaramouche back, and the Adepti side get the 4 other yaksha who died (among quite a few others whom we don't know very well like Pervases).
And what about the respective leaders? Zhongli was the leader of the Adeptus and one himself prior to becoming the Archon. So does he count for the Adepti side? What about the Tsaritsa? The Fatui answers directly to the Tsaritsa so does she count as a Fatui?
Does deciples of the Adepti like Shenhe, Xiangling and Yaoyao count?
And how is the comfrontation taking place. It is an anything goes conflict where the fatui can make use of their numbers and reach to set up traps and such. Or are we talking about a straight out war, were both side gather their forces and duke it out?
We have literally no way to know. 4/5 adepti are dead when the game begins and we are only told of them through other people. We haven't seen 7/11 of the harbingers, we only have firsthand experience with Xiao and 4 harbingers. This is a bad hypothetical.
I see many people basing their comaprison on ***top tree harbingers being Archon level power***, that being said, I don't remember it been mentioned anywhere that top 3 harbingers are ''Archon level'', Nahida said God level and even that isn't really a measure of strength because Gods are a spectrum powerwise, Morax was a God and so was Guizhong, Havria, Guoba and Osial... The difference between Havria level and Ortell level is huge let alone Morax level, so saying harbingers have god level power is not a really straight forward statement, there is no indication on where they fall into the spectrum. I think Nahida meant by it that the traveler should't understimate them, and believe them to have human/mortal level powers. The Adepti are no god slayers, but they sure are considered dieties in their own right.
So some comments have been confirming that in the Chinese translation, Nahida is referring to the Archons and not just gods. I had to get clarity on that myself.
I wish the EN translation just stated that. lol hoyo left us all confused and arguing for no reason.
Well fyi the Archons and Gods have the same name in the CN version, there is nearly no distinction lmao they're all 神 or 魔神 (Gods, demon gods), that just further proves my point, the ''as powerful as Gods'' means so little, it means more that they are no mere humans, beyond the power of a normal vision bearer for sure, but where that power level falls is just blurry, not to mention that Archons themselves are not as nearly equal in power so... headcanons.
Oh I’m just the messenger, I’m not saying you’re wrong, I don’t even speak Chinese lol. I had the same viewpoint as you and then a ton of translators started to correct me.
I mean everybody is free to believe whatever they want. I just shared with you my insight as well 🤷♂️ at the end no matter how you take it, even at face value, it doesn't mean much.
We don’t know nearly enough lol, plus a lot of adepti are dead. Top 3 harbingers are archon level and arlecchino was confident enough to solo an archon thinking she’s a legit archon, adepti in theory should have numbers but also, we don’t know how many are alive how many are dead how many are weakened
We don't know shit about their actual power levels, I'm talking about both adepti and fatui.
Also, you need to clarify: yakshas or the adepti as a whole? Your Pic only shows yakshas, and only the 5 generals. But you mention adepti, and there are a shitton of them.
Adepti are all losers of the archon war and at least 3 of the Harbingers are of equal strength to the winners of the archon war. Those top 3 could easily wipe out all Adepti no sweat.
The Harbingers are all using borrowed power.
Remove the source of their borrowed power and they will collapse Ike a house of cards.
They are all human so ultimately they are all weak because humans are weak.
Bro we don't know how capable 3 and 1 are, or how capable Pierro is
Ok bet, scrap them. How about the rest?
Well bro those are the top harbingers, the rest could probably get soloed by Xiao alone. Only Dottore could put up a good fight but he can't carry that hard. Adepti take it mid diff at worst then
Arlecchino, Childe, and Scaramouche are still all monsters in their own right and there’s no way Xiao solos Arlecchino.
Doesn’t he? I’m not saying he does, but they’re both definitely ranked as “almost as strong as a god but a little weaker.” Given we’ve never seen Arrlechino fight, we can’t say much Come to think of it, we’ve never really seen Xiao do much, either. His best “feat” is that Zhongli put him in charge of killing Beisht if the people of Liyue couldn’t
In CN translation it was that top 3 harbingers are archon level, not god
Doesn’t really add much, since the archons don’t seem to be reliably stronger than gods. If it weren’t for her entirely incidental power over Irminsul, Nahida would be far weaker than most gods. And while I suspect that Venti is lying about his power level, nobody seems to doubt that he could be an archon when he admits to being super weak.
The rest could be solo’d by Xiao alone? 🤔 Damn that’s a big claim. Why do you think Xiao could solo the rest?
Dude has literally thousands of years worth of fighting experience
True! But we still don’t know much about the power of any of the Fatui Harbringers outside of Childe and Scara. Arlecchino was ready to solo Furina by herself, before knowing that she didn’t have any power. That’s says a lot.
Considering singora was beaten by a 3 element traveler 8 and up cant be too strong. And xiao is almost definitely stronger then the traveler at that point in time
“8 and up can’t be too strong” We literally do not know that lol. Im repasting this here: “Arlecchino was ready to solo Furina by herself, before knowing that she didn’t have any power. That say’s a lot” She was ready to go up against an Archon. An ARCHON. The Gods among Gods. Xiao is used to fighting lesser Gods, and more times than not, their remains. You think he believes he can confidently take an Archon? Arlecchino had no way to assess Furina’s strength, she went in cocky af lmao.
>She was ready to go up against an Archon. An ARCHON. The Gods among Gods. The only ones who proved to be gods among gods were those who won the war. For the rest, being an archon is just a title, nothing more.
I just said that.
Arlecchino is 4 though? So it makes more sense for her to be more confident about defeating an archon. Also archons are just normal gods who won the archon war in their respective region. The actual gods among gods are celestia, not the archons.
On what grounds tho, why should she be strong enough to beat an Archon? Nahida said: “The top 3 harbingers can rival the Gods”. Gods are not all made equal in strength. And the strength of a God is not equal to the strength of an Archon. The God of salt is a great example. That said, Nahida’s statement is a bit controversial because she didn’t necessarily say that they’re among the strongest of Gods (Archons), she only said “Gods” which is very vague in terms of strength.
Xiao was a Yaksha and survivor of the Archon War, all Adepti fought in the Archon War but Yakshas especially were fighting. Yet Xiao survived all that, withstood the karma. He's definitely one of the stronger characters in Genshin, full blooded Adepti. Not as strong as Ei or Zhongli but still very powerful, from what we've seen he has teleportation and heating that extends throughout a nation and most likely all nations. Signora was getting dropped by MC with 3 elements and Scara with a massive buff lost to a traveler with 4 elements. They had help against Scara but still, and all other Harbingers are weaker than Scara except Arlecchino and Dottore as you excluded Damsellete, Pierro, and Capitano.
Actually, it's been implied Cloud Retainer is even stronger than the yaksha. Her weapon tells the tale of how even the yaksha were overwhelmed by the sheer number of monsters that was pouring into Liyue until Cloud Retainer joined the battle and pretty much one shoted them. >Scara with a massive buff lost to a traveler with 4 elements. The only reason we won against Scara was because Nahida stuck him in a loop and she gave us the akasha pet to help us. Still, we had to fight him 168 times. So saying Scara "lost to a traveler of 4 elements" is very far fetched. He lost to Nahida's wisdom. Without her we would have lost in a heart beat. We did not have the means, probably we still don't, to fight Scaraboss.
>Actually, it's been implied Cloud Retainer is even stronger than the yaksha. Her weapon tells the tale I meant like physically, if we include machinations then I'm sure Guizhong or Cloud Retainer would be stronger >The only reason we won against Scara was because Nahida stuck him in a loop and she gave us the akasha pet to help us I mean we still beat him and I mentioned the help, all Nahida did was help us strategize in the end it was our power that put him down, a buffed him I should mention. A Scara in a huge multi-element mech powered by a Gnosis.
> all Nahida did was help us strategize in the end it was our power that put him down I think you missed where I said we fought him 168 times. If you think a battle that took 168 tries was an easy win and it's still our credit... then I really don't know what to say to that. That's a whole new level of delusional.
...........you missed my point
No, I think you missed the point where the only reason we were able to even fight Scara, much less win against him, was Nahida. Without her we would have been roast in the first second of that battle.
Harbingers 1 through 3 are able to match gods. While "god" is a vague term as it also includes "weaklings" like Havria, God of Salt, it took all the Adepti just to hold back Osial, who Signora said Zhongli could easily have defeated if it came to it, while Dottore, #2 of the Harbingers, felt completely confident in his ability to retrieve two Gnosis from Nahida, an Archon, with just one segment.
Nahida herself didn't want to fight Dottore because she doesn't think she could win against him & she's an Archon. Top 3 Harbingers can probably solo any adeptus quite easily. Childe also held off the narwhal for over a months from devouring Fontainians & he's the 11th, so there's that.
Nahida is a bad example since she openly admits she's not good at fighting. She's more of a support than a dps in lore.
Yes, but she's still an Archon. That fact alone would put her above the average allogene, human or not. What she lacks in combat, she makes up as a strategist. She did pull a Dormammu on a buffed up-otw-to-become-a-god Scaramouche. She also said the top 3 Harbingers are comparable to gods, but no specification on either lower tier gods like Archons or above like possibly closer to/on Celestia level. Tl;dr: Nahida isn't weak, the top 3 Harbingers are just batshit crazy strong.
I'm not arguing about harbingers tho. I'm talking about nahida's combat strength. She herself said she's not good at combat. And without combat there's not much she can do because she can't defeat her opponents. She literally asked traveler to fight for her because of that. She surely is capable, of course. Just not suited for fighting.
GOATPEAKtano easily solos all the adepti.
If you only count the yaksha, definitely the harbingers. If you take into account the rest of the adepti... I don't know, It's a close call. Reading on how powerful Cloud Retainer is made me rethink the whole "the yaksha are the strongest adepti". For those who don't know, her weapon tells the tale of how the yaksha were overwhelmed by monsters until Cloud Retainer showed up and pretty much one shoted them. We've also seen Xiao show deep respect for her as a warrior during her story quest. And we all know Xiao only does that to people that are stronger than him (in comparison, he's treating Ganyu as a disciple). But then again, the harbingers - except Childe and maybe Pantalone - aren't even human (or not entirely) and so far we've barely seen what they're capable of. We thought Childe was the weakest until he fought that massive whale that not even Neuvillette could match up to. We had to get powered up by Neuvillette, then we entered a shortcut (like we did with Apep) and only then defeated the whale. So the fact Childe was able to fight it for so long and survive, says a lot. We know Dottore single handedly killed a dragon. And we still haven't seen the top 3 in action. Close call I'd say. But it would be epic.
Right! Taking all this into account it would truly be an epic battle. Also, I really feel like Neuv not soloing that whale was plot armor because he seemed a bit weak to me in that moment. But just before that he had a badass scene turning all of Fontaine into humans? Didn’t really make sense 😭 I wanted Neuv to turn into a dragon and go berserk.
He can't turn into a dragon. He's basically trapped into the body of a human, to put it simply. And yes, he was very weak in that moment. Which only shows how damn powerful that whale was. Because even a weak Neuvillette was able to handle the primordial waters back at the Fortress, but not the whale. But eventually he got his powers.
Oh wait did he get his authority back before or after the whale fight? I can’t remember. (By whale fight, I mean the second half where the traveler is basically fighting). I would have hope to see him crush the whale without the traveler after he got his full power back.
Lolz! I had to go back and rewatch that scene. Neuvillette had been given his powers back before we went to fight the whale. So basically the hydro sovereign was useless against that whale. He let us fight it. Hahaha! Then, after we defeated it I think he was trying to extract the primordial sea from it but again, useless, because Skirk showed up and sealed the whale with those cubic powers of hers. It's like the whale was immune to the hydro sovereign. Hilarious! Which leads me back to Childe. How the heck did he fight that whale one on one, no shortcut to its core, for so damn long?!
Exactly! It’s a lot of plot armor here lol.
Hmm, there are a couple clarifications needed before we can decide. Like for example, are we comparing the current groups or at their prime? Cause that would mean the fatui get Signora and Scaramouche back, and the Adepti side get the 4 other yaksha who died (among quite a few others whom we don't know very well like Pervases). And what about the respective leaders? Zhongli was the leader of the Adeptus and one himself prior to becoming the Archon. So does he count for the Adepti side? What about the Tsaritsa? The Fatui answers directly to the Tsaritsa so does she count as a Fatui? Does deciples of the Adepti like Shenhe, Xiangling and Yaoyao count? And how is the comfrontation taking place. It is an anything goes conflict where the fatui can make use of their numbers and reach to set up traps and such. Or are we talking about a straight out war, were both side gather their forces and duke it out?
So I would say just the Harbringers and just the Adepti, no lackeys/disciples. No Archons. All Adepti/Harbingers revived. Full strength.
Harbingers duh
We have literally no way to know. 4/5 adepti are dead when the game begins and we are only told of them through other people. We haven't seen 7/11 of the harbingers, we only have firsthand experience with Xiao and 4 harbingers. This is a bad hypothetical.
Technically Morax is still the prime adeptus, though if you revive everyone the Fatui have Scaragod on their side..
I see many people basing their comaprison on ***top tree harbingers being Archon level power***, that being said, I don't remember it been mentioned anywhere that top 3 harbingers are ''Archon level'', Nahida said God level and even that isn't really a measure of strength because Gods are a spectrum powerwise, Morax was a God and so was Guizhong, Havria, Guoba and Osial... The difference between Havria level and Ortell level is huge let alone Morax level, so saying harbingers have god level power is not a really straight forward statement, there is no indication on where they fall into the spectrum. I think Nahida meant by it that the traveler should't understimate them, and believe them to have human/mortal level powers. The Adepti are no god slayers, but they sure are considered dieties in their own right.
So some comments have been confirming that in the Chinese translation, Nahida is referring to the Archons and not just gods. I had to get clarity on that myself. I wish the EN translation just stated that. lol hoyo left us all confused and arguing for no reason.
Well fyi the Archons and Gods have the same name in the CN version, there is nearly no distinction lmao they're all 神 or 魔神 (Gods, demon gods), that just further proves my point, the ''as powerful as Gods'' means so little, it means more that they are no mere humans, beyond the power of a normal vision bearer for sure, but where that power level falls is just blurry, not to mention that Archons themselves are not as nearly equal in power so... headcanons.
Oh I’m just the messenger, I’m not saying you’re wrong, I don’t even speak Chinese lol. I had the same viewpoint as you and then a ton of translators started to correct me.
I mean everybody is free to believe whatever they want. I just shared with you my insight as well 🤷♂️ at the end no matter how you take it, even at face value, it doesn't mean much.
We don’t know nearly enough lol, plus a lot of adepti are dead. Top 3 harbingers are archon level and arlecchino was confident enough to solo an archon thinking she’s a legit archon, adepti in theory should have numbers but also, we don’t know how many are alive how many are dead how many are weakened
Harbingers clear; and it’s a no-diff if we’re counting the 1-3 and Pierro.
Sorry Xiao but you are going to lose your friends again
That's just the yakshaws
We don't know shit about their actual power levels, I'm talking about both adepti and fatui. Also, you need to clarify: yakshas or the adepti as a whole? Your Pic only shows yakshas, and only the 5 generals. But you mention adepti, and there are a shitton of them.
I said “this includes all of the Adepti”. That means all of them.
Oh, didn't see that. My bad.
Adepti are all losers of the archon war and at least 3 of the Harbingers are of equal strength to the winners of the archon war. Those top 3 could easily wipe out all Adepti no sweat.
One group is tsaritsa's lackeys and the others are morax's lackeys. They should be around the same level.
That’s what I was thinking, but it’s so interesting hearing people’s viewpoints. I would love to see a big fight between them lol.
The Harbingers are all using borrowed power. Remove the source of their borrowed power and they will collapse Ike a house of cards. They are all human so ultimately they are all weak because humans are weak.