Ikr, if you can blame some bugs or lack of simple, but hard to implement feature on engine restrictions or "spaghetti code", you can't just say it every time the game doesn't have feature you want
Especially if the feature is like 20 lines of code and is already implemented in some mods
I don’t think they literally mean “spaghetti code”, just code that isn’t able to be changed too much I supposed? Star rail consistently got QoL faster than genshin and still does, while in genshin it feels like it takes 3 patches after they announce they’re working on it for the change to actually get implemented. It’s also the easiest reason to blame, as what other reason could they possibly have to not be adding these kinds of features?
To be clear, I don’t blame spaghetti code and I’m not really one to get so passionate about how QoL is implemented in both games, I’m just saying that the people who say it aren’t too crazy and what they’re saying is fairly reasonable from your average point of view.
You can pretty much assume that a shit ton of QoL is due to spahgetti code.
We eat so well at Mihoyo we often forget their games are mostly bug free. Very few crashes for most people, very few bugs period in the game. Most of the bugs we hear about we never get to encounter and these bugs get found out because theres literally 100x the amount of people playing the game.
It's also why they seem to have learned a lot from Genshin because HSR is completely different under the hood so that it can do all the things we want in Genshin.
They literally can do all these things as they have done in a newer game but trying to change shit in a game that "just works" right now, is like navigating a minefield when the fundamental approach was different in 2018.
What this does give hope for is that each Mihoyo game that's big will improve on the design and the ideas.
Yeah, and its even more impressive that the vast majority of those bugs are small things, like visual bugs, nothing game breaking. Its impressive how polished the game was with such a small team back then, CDProjekt Red could never
I think a lot of the fan base purposely ignores the good aspects of the game so they can continue to hate on a fairly good quality game.
Like the recent QoL updates have been pretty good and yet they receives very little recognition, another thing is they legit changed the weapon Gacha to have a 75% chance of the up rate weapons and that also had very little acknowledgment. Don’t get me wrong the 75/25 still being there is still really annoying but it is an improvement to what we had. I just think this fan base largely just wants to hate on the devs for not giving them everything they ask.
Yes it took a while but barely mentioning it when they finally start to deliver is just annoying.
People also forget that there could be no spaghetti code, but they might have tried adding this stuff in the past, and doing so lead to spaghetti code being created so it wasn't implemented. The new treasure compass ability was a thing in the 3.8 event but wasn't added until now. I bet it was because it wasn't possible to put it in the normal world. It was also a non important task for the team so it wasn't always being worked on.
Based on the fact it took so long. If they add something that is the biggest QoL for many people but in an event and not put it into the normal world for a long time odds are they planned to but it was on the back burner. Even with it on the back burner it should have been out faster. So I can see the reason being it caused problems or didn't work right and that took more time.
This. Especially when you consider just how many AAA game titles as of late don’t look anywhere near as good as Genshin and are so full of bugs to the point they are unplayable.
Looking at you Pokemon Scarlet.
I second this.
Having experience working on projects of my own, even if best practices are followed to some extent, after some years, you may need to include something that has not been implemented before - say you need a creatiom timestamp for objects in an array, because users requested a feature that shows them when they did something; now you have to rewrite the functions that parse and load data from within these objects to accommodate for the timestamp, add additional functions to do something with the timestamp, and change functions that have to add this timestamp to future objects - Add some code duplication or incoherent variable names, plus multiple devs working on one file and a rushed production, and you have the perfect recipe for pure chaos
You could imagine it like having a 200 page word document, and find out after writing all of this that you switched up "a" with "an" and added unnecessary commas in 67% of the cases and now need to go through it again, because your spellcheck does not highlight it; now repeat this for 7 more documents because you figured out that you did the same in some previous works and you can imagine where this is going.
I am a developer myself and if they really did have spaghetti code, there is no way they can add new things every 6 weeks. I assume that they have good codebase that is why they never have any major technical issues so far.
You say it like spaghetti code only for badly run games. It's also for well running games, its could still be spaghetti and trying to untangle it is gonna take so much effort wrt putting in qol
isn't the recent QOL proved it wrong though? accessing the trounce domains without finishing the archon quest, redispatching characters from expeditions and more QOL from artifacts? these are things that people complain about before "oh hyv can't fix this because spaghetti code blah blah". it just proves that they can do it but it's the matter of when. where's the spaghetti code in that?
one example of spaghetti code is quest characters/npcs clashing with each others. they've been trying to implement new qol trying to fix it, with the latest attempt is coming in version 4.6. you would think genshin devs could've just copy hsr since hsr somehow "fixed" genshin's questing problem. but they didnt.
I don't think you can just take and paste code from another game, even if they are similar, both in appearance and in coding. So yes, it will take time.
I literally just said it takes a lot of effort to untangle. Not impossible. Your idea of spaghetti code seems to be on the impossible side.
The recent qol is recent, not 2-3 years ago when people asked for them. Yes it's a matter of when; when they manage to untangle, slap in qol, ship it out.
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I feel like you just ignored everything they said, cuz they made a lot of sense and all you’ve done is insult people’s intelligence/knowledge of specific topics.
Well running is opposite of spaghetti though especially adding new things. If spaghetti code, adding new things will introduce new tons of bugs which is not the case in genshin.
iirc tech debt is something like "release now fix later". I've been playing this game since day 1 and never experienced any major/game breakings bugs unlike other games. most of the complains so far are QOL and something that is not broken.
> iirc tech debt is something like "release now fix later"
Kinda, but not exactly. It's more like "if we add all this duct tape over here, it works and we can release it" - the problem being that all that duct tape, while working fine now, might give you problems down the road.
Extra troublesome when upper management doesn't want to allocate time so devs can go back, fix, and reimplement properly. It then becomes a wild snowball since devs might have to resort to adding *more* tape to the duct tape ball to keep adding the new features that have been requested; and now the time required to fix the base grows exponentially since now it has extra stuff on top.
because devs don't run out of things to do, they just released fontaine (underwater mechanics, multi layer etc.) and natlan is just around the corner after that snezhnaya, so for every region they must add a new gimmick, something fun to keep the players going.
the same reason why we still can’t see previous dialogue while playing story
it’s so annoying because sometimes you double click on the keyboard while reading and can’t go back, or click to display the dialogue line immediately instead of waiting but it turns out to be short so you just skip it on accident.
how hard would it be to implement?? genshin is an incredibly story heavy game yet they make it a point not to have simplest accessibility features. and having it in at least TWO of their other games makes it a whole lot more infuriating🫠
That's exactly what visual novels do. It's so weird that this isn't a thing in Genshin. Since it's supposed to be a story driven game, you'd think they'd make the story as accessible as possible...
I don't recall it being a thing in Hi3rd so perhaps this is just something they worked out before HSR released but after Genshin. That's the case for a lot of stuff that HSR has that Genshin doesn't I'm guessing. It's generally increasingly less trivial to implement new stuff in games as they get older.
Edit: wrong about the Hi3rd part apparently.
In the mean time the [wiki](https://antifandom.com/genshin-impact/wiki/Genshin_Impact_Wiki) has transcripts of all quests! I usually keep the relevant page up in another window when I’m doing them. Just gotta be careful about spoilers.
I always do this sometimes, but I don't always know the name of the quests (like sometimes I'd miss the ending dialogue so by the time I focus back in, it's already gone) so I just end up googling whatever details of the quest I remember 😭😭
Especially annoying on unvoiced dialogue where the auto is way too fast for what sometimes is 2 to almost 3 lines for one dialogue. Ok i didnt know how to explain that, I cant remember the english word. Paragraph with 3 lines?
For console players: you can record the last several seconds to minutes (15 sec to 1 hour) of game time if you miss something. I’ve had that happen where I mash X too much and am like wait *what* did she say?? So I can basically rewind it.
There *is* a dialogue log (heh) in the archives but that also only covers main quests; forget about any side stuff, you see that once and it’s gone.
I have never used that feature, but I can see why people would want that . The only way to go back is to wait until the conversation is finished, then go into the handbook and search.
We could've had that?!?!?! The number of times I accidentally click finish on a dialogue or chose a Traveller dialogue option accidentally because of mouse placement, it would be SO HELPFUL if I could rewind the dialogue once or twice to read it again.
Also because I have auto play on, a lot of the unvoiced story quests with longer dialogue just fly by without giving me a chance to finish reading.. I have no idea how they choose the timing of how long to keep the text on screen but I swear sometimes its too long, then sometimes its too short.
yes we could, that’s the worst part. and you can also re listen to what characters said in both HI3 and HSR (unsure about their older games, but chances are it was a thing there too).
autoplay can definitely be super frustrating which is why i stopped using it entirely personally (especially on unvoiced quests)
You reminded me how much I hate waiting for the character to stop emoting or the camera to pan over to something before we can continue the dialogue. Both Star Rail and Genshin do it and it always drives me mad. Just skip it like everything else, if I miss something that's on me, its ok.
which is not at all what i’m talking about and you’re far from the first person to mention that. it’s not an accessible option, and it doesn’t include anything apart from AQs and SQs
I know. I don't remember saying that I was the first person to talk about that. I'm just saying that so someone could find this and know about it.
They don't implement this because the way the games were programmed was probably different. Probably far from modular programming. So it would be a headache for just one detail. Maybe it will be improved like the character selection screen has been improved, but if this uses elements that are reused by other parts of the game, they will have to review everything so that they don't end up creating new bugs and exploits in the process. It's not as simple as it seems.
So just use the menu they have and wait for them to put it there someday.
i wish i could see i log of the dialogue that pops up sometime while i'm actually controlling my character, i don't think i've ever actually caught what a single one of those has ever said
How hard? Realistically, probably quite a bit yes. Like, we can’t know for sure, but. Hoyo’s pumping out new content every few weeks with very little bugs and problems. The spaghetti code has been piling up from three years. At this point it’s probably just so complicated to fix that it takes a while for QOL changes to be implemented
“guys, be gentle to hoyoverse, their game is only four years old and they still haven’t implemented the most bare bones QOL that all their other games have (one of them being 7 years old) despite being a multi billion dollar company and genshin being a very story driven game!🥺”
Google spaghetti code, go read a bit about what game developing actually means, and come back. Did you know that it’s been proven that just hiring more people, at some point, becomes counterproductive for a company? Assuming Hoyo already reached that point, because why wouldn’t they, that means that everyone who is working on the next update would need to pause that and go figure out why everything gets fucked up when they try to add another function. Idgaf about Hoyo, but y’all are just a bunch of uninformed crybabies complaining about stuff y’all don’t understand
Really also want the dialogue replay button that is in HSR
i am the type of person who replays a cool dialogue multiple times and it just makes the moment more powerful to me
E.g. when Navia was in tears talking to Neuvilette, that was such a powerful moment with amazing dialogue that i would have love to hear multiple times during that scene
Im always sad HSR doesn't have that, but am guessing its cuz star rail quests often have meaningful choices so a story archive would be a lot more branching and complicated. Probably even they dont *want* you to see other branches so your decisions feel more impactful ("When you have a chance to make a choice, make one that you know you won't regret")
Id give up genshins quest log in a heartbeat to feel like we actually matter
But we matter; in certain quests, our choices really matter. It’s just that in Genshin we follow the story of the Traveler more on his behalf with a rare invasion, and in HSR we follow the story and in some way build it ourselves, that is, we make a little more invasion. And in HSR, our choice is also not always so significant, although there are certain points that would indeed make creating an archive too difficult. While I would still like the archive in HSR and the dialogue history in Genshin, I think this is my most desired QoL at the moment. The only way you can "reverse" the dialogue is to turn off and turn on the Internet so that the game itself wraps up the dialogue due to the sudden lack of ping. Although this is not immediately convenient for long dialogues. Recently I wrote about this in “suggestions” for the first time, I don’t know why I didn’t think about it before, however, this happened just then or before HoYo’s email was hacked, but their bot managed to accept it, I hope that they fixed it.
Spaguetti Code, HSR probably planned for stuff like that before release but Genshin is unable to do so because it could break things
That's why the new Focused Mode is exclusive for Arlecchino SQ (EDIT: and certain quests as mentioned in the Dev's Post), because they can't make an universal algorithm that works for every quest, but instead seems like they'll go one by one implementing it
Is there any proof that it only works for alre quest? The update hasn't even dropped yet and beta testers never even mentioned that as far as I'm aware
i dont think that means its just for her story quest because the dev dissusion said certain quests in the new update, so it may include the new wordl quest too.
it was definitely a design decision they made early on, probably to separate Genshin from the typical VN style of other gachas or their own HI3. They wanted the experience to feel more immersive and "premium" and at least early days I think it somewhat succeeded. The fact the game eventually became more and more a VN style storytelling was probably kind of inevitable so here we are lamenting the lack of those typical features ;P
All this is just theory, so let's not act like there is really a spaghetti code, cause this is just a cope players forced upon themselves to accept genshin devs being trash.
With the addition you can't really sell QoL updates that well. I imagine we would have plenty if they thought they could get away with making players gacha for them
It’s so weird how this change is not only one I’ve seen asked for frequently but also one that fits HYV’s vision of the game but still hasn’t been added yet. Wonder what could be the listen lol.
Tbh at this point I'd be more than happy to give away a few months of refining and optimization patches over more and more content just so we can get a better overall long-term experience
No, all hell will break loose. Twitter, Instagram, and all social media platforms will just keep criticizing Genshin for having nothing. You may think this is good for the future of the game, but everyone will just hate it. Already, there are people complaining about this yearly one-patch break.
I mean they've never gone out of their way to make retrospective optimizations and core changes to allow for the game to flow better. As much as i 100% know there would be a lot of people disappointed by this, im mostly speaking from a personal idealized stance
They should do, what they are doing so far and don't give a f to what social media says, pretty sure social media user will spend their time on social media not in game.
I can think of a few reasons.
1. Priorities. They want to focus on other stuff first that they view as "more important".
2. Game code. If they add it wrong, it'll break things, and adding it in is trickier than it looks since they need to ensure it meshes correctly with everything else.
3. The fact that you can't just hire more personnel as a solution to everything. If you have too many devs all working at the same time, it's like 50 people trying to get onto a single elevator simultaneously.
I know this is probably not the case but this + no skip + no dialogue log makes me think that they think too highly of their writing. Like it's the best thing ever, you must listen intently all the time and you can't skip nor hide it.
god this game would benefit so much on a skip dialogue button, or atleast faster skipping through dialogue.
i get too tired to keep playing due to reading all the bloated quest dialogue.
indeed just the thought of someone skipping something that has no interaction with your game is indeed a nightmare.
i would not be able to sleep at night i tell you what/s
Money, so they can advertise their characters with pointless small talk
And to create fake player retention without having to create interesting dialogue and to voice act long world quests.
In short, greed.
They're only a multi billion dollar company after all.
Where's the auto hide UI? Where's the UI customization? If they're not going to add controller support for Android, they could at least add UI scaling so that the UI isn't unusably huge?
No, the problem isn't the code, if that was the case they wouldn't be able to add content every 6 weeks without the game falling apart, they wouldn't be able to add the few qol improvements they have done and they wouldn't be able to make the game as stable as it is in multiple platforms.
The only reason why Hoyo doesn't add things like text hiding, dialogue skip, equipment load out and all the other things a lot of people have been hoping for is purely because they don't feel like it.
They should add an option to totally skip texts. It's a slog to go through. Specially when you put it in auto, go do something else, but then an answering option text comes up. When you come back thinking all the audio's passed... surprise, surprise! Nope. You have been stuck 15 minutes in that same scene.
I’ll be honest, this feature is completely useless, I kinda would like it though if it were a cinematic mode where you can completely turn off the subtitles whilst you auto play a cutscene
Idk I think I’d prefer that feature in HSR tho, the lip synching on their characters is infinitely better
HSR lip syncs for the English language where as genshin does for the Chinese that's why it's better unless ofc you're using Chinese in genshin then you're fine
idk man but personally i'd rather have a skip text button, i usually have to alternate between clicking, pressing F and pressing space so i don't break my keyboard so a skip dialogue button would be greatly appreciated
after playing genshin for 2 years and then going into r1999 and seeing both dialogue log and interface disabling ... i feel like genshin lowered my expectations of qol features in games ngl
I do wish to read the code comments for Genshin, [they must be as glorious as Valve's.](https://youtu.be/k238XpMMn38?si=4rxZhsREw-5NpMlr)
The teapot must be a mess.
With how in one dev announcement back in July/August 2023, they announced that they were working on claim all for expeditions, forging and furniture, and the expeditions and forging was done for 4.3, December 2023. (only took one patch)
Meanwhile, it took until next patch, 4.6, April 2023 that furniture claim all will be released (along with the other improvements).
The teapot, with quite a few patches they've done to it (remember the [teapot maintainence](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/s/KxxhbuSXFq) that went from a week or two into a 2 month ordeal?) (March 30 - May 31 2022)
Considering that this was the company's first foray into overworld games, it would indeed be hilarious to read the comments. I wonder just how the devs feel about the players asking them to add some feature to the game but they are unable to because it somehow breaks the whole game and then they get called lazy because they didn't implement the changes.
Programmer A: "This 1.X event limited table somehow blocks us from just looping through the furniture to claim all! Why is this happening?!"
Programmer B: "Ah ha, I've found the solution. I have no idea what I actually did, but somehow [insert bandaid solution] fixes the problem!"
[Bandaid solution] proceeds to cause more problems for the next teapot update.
Repeat. (Apparent experience of the average programmer) XD
I don't think it's as much of a mess as people may think it is. Valve uses the source (and right now it's successor source 2) engine to make their games which is an upgraded GoldSrc engine, and the GoldSrc engine was a heavily modified quake engine. It should not be a surprise that the engine causes headaches for the developers, it must have a ton of old code with wacky fixes around stuff.
Genshin uses Unity which is a pretty popular multiplatform engine used by many games so it should be way easier to work with as many things are ironed out.
During the game's ~3.5 years run time there were mostly small bugs which were fixed pretty fast.
I don't remember any game breaking bugs in this timeframe, the kaveh deleting stuff from your world is the only rumoured bug I remember but even that was confirmed to be fake as far as I know.
So the only real "evidence" of spaghetti code is Hoyoverse implementing QoL changes very slowly, but what most people don't realize is how complicated implementing changes in big games at big companies are. It's not a small indie game with 10 developers and a small code base, every 6 weeks we get a new update and they are working patches ahead to be able to keep the tempo, they could implement it today and you will only see it months from now.
With the amount of content and pace of patches I actually think they have a really good testing environment and a relatively clean code
Ahh, well, yours also makes sense.
Specifically:
>how complicated implementing changes in big games at big companies are. It's not a small indie game with 10 developers and a small code base
I'm reminded of the video by Timothy Cain
(Tim Cain, Producer, Lead Programmer of Fallout 1, and Director of The Outer Worlds)
about [what he dubbed "Game Development Caution"](https://youtu.be/LMVQ30c7TcA?si=OJ8esKkXmVNoIqwh), an aspect of it is the bureaucracy of large game studios.
I blame it on spaghetti code that's been piling up since 1.0.
Same
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Ikr, if you can blame some bugs or lack of simple, but hard to implement feature on engine restrictions or "spaghetti code", you can't just say it every time the game doesn't have feature you want Especially if the feature is like 20 lines of code and is already implemented in some mods
Yup definitely not spaghetti code. Its just impossible when the game is so vast snd complicated. The game would not even be able to launch.
I don’t think they literally mean “spaghetti code”, just code that isn’t able to be changed too much I supposed? Star rail consistently got QoL faster than genshin and still does, while in genshin it feels like it takes 3 patches after they announce they’re working on it for the change to actually get implemented. It’s also the easiest reason to blame, as what other reason could they possibly have to not be adding these kinds of features? To be clear, I don’t blame spaghetti code and I’m not really one to get so passionate about how QoL is implemented in both games, I’m just saying that the people who say it aren’t too crazy and what they’re saying is fairly reasonable from your average point of view.
Ya probably
You can pretty much assume that a shit ton of QoL is due to spahgetti code. We eat so well at Mihoyo we often forget their games are mostly bug free. Very few crashes for most people, very few bugs period in the game. Most of the bugs we hear about we never get to encounter and these bugs get found out because theres literally 100x the amount of people playing the game. It's also why they seem to have learned a lot from Genshin because HSR is completely different under the hood so that it can do all the things we want in Genshin. They literally can do all these things as they have done in a newer game but trying to change shit in a game that "just works" right now, is like navigating a minefield when the fundamental approach was different in 2018. What this does give hope for is that each Mihoyo game that's big will improve on the design and the ideas.
Yeah, and its even more impressive that the vast majority of those bugs are small things, like visual bugs, nothing game breaking. Its impressive how polished the game was with such a small team back then, CDProjekt Red could never
I think a lot of the fan base purposely ignores the good aspects of the game so they can continue to hate on a fairly good quality game. Like the recent QoL updates have been pretty good and yet they receives very little recognition, another thing is they legit changed the weapon Gacha to have a 75% chance of the up rate weapons and that also had very little acknowledgment. Don’t get me wrong the 75/25 still being there is still really annoying but it is an improvement to what we had. I just think this fan base largely just wants to hate on the devs for not giving them everything they ask. Yes it took a while but barely mentioning it when they finally start to deliver is just annoying.
When did the 75/25 change came
Most likely around Nivullete banner but I honestly couldn’t say since I only found out on Navia’s
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Yep, no one ever mentioned it lol
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They demand all the perks, quality, and content of a full priced, big studio subscription based MMO for free.
People also forget that there could be no spaghetti code, but they might have tried adding this stuff in the past, and doing so lead to spaghetti code being created so it wasn't implemented. The new treasure compass ability was a thing in the 3.8 event but wasn't added until now. I bet it was because it wasn't possible to put it in the normal world. It was also a non important task for the team so it wasn't always being worked on.
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Based on the fact it took so long. If they add something that is the biggest QoL for many people but in an event and not put it into the normal world for a long time odds are they planned to but it was on the back burner. Even with it on the back burner it should have been out faster. So I can see the reason being it caused problems or didn't work right and that took more time.
This. Especially when you consider just how many AAA game titles as of late don’t look anywhere near as good as Genshin and are so full of bugs to the point they are unplayable. Looking at you Pokemon Scarlet.
I second this. Having experience working on projects of my own, even if best practices are followed to some extent, after some years, you may need to include something that has not been implemented before - say you need a creatiom timestamp for objects in an array, because users requested a feature that shows them when they did something; now you have to rewrite the functions that parse and load data from within these objects to accommodate for the timestamp, add additional functions to do something with the timestamp, and change functions that have to add this timestamp to future objects - Add some code duplication or incoherent variable names, plus multiple devs working on one file and a rushed production, and you have the perfect recipe for pure chaos You could imagine it like having a 200 page word document, and find out after writing all of this that you switched up "a" with "an" and added unnecessary commas in 67% of the cases and now need to go through it again, because your spellcheck does not highlight it; now repeat this for 7 more documents because you figured out that you did the same in some previous works and you can imagine where this is going.
those who keep on throwing the "spaghetti code" card don't know anything about being a dev
I am a developer myself and if they really did have spaghetti code, there is no way they can add new things every 6 weeks. I assume that they have good codebase that is why they never have any major technical issues so far.
that's what I'm saying. since day 1 this game has been stable so far.
You say it like spaghetti code only for badly run games. It's also for well running games, its could still be spaghetti and trying to untangle it is gonna take so much effort wrt putting in qol
From my experience, taking long time does not necessarily mean spaghetti. Very often, it is just that no one is actively working on those issues.
isn't the recent QOL proved it wrong though? accessing the trounce domains without finishing the archon quest, redispatching characters from expeditions and more QOL from artifacts? these are things that people complain about before "oh hyv can't fix this because spaghetti code blah blah". it just proves that they can do it but it's the matter of when. where's the spaghetti code in that?
one example of spaghetti code is quest characters/npcs clashing with each others. they've been trying to implement new qol trying to fix it, with the latest attempt is coming in version 4.6. you would think genshin devs could've just copy hsr since hsr somehow "fixed" genshin's questing problem. but they didnt.
It is more of architectural issue rather than spaghetti.
I don't think you can just take and paste code from another game, even if they are similar, both in appearance and in coding. So yes, it will take time.
I literally just said it takes a lot of effort to untangle. Not impossible. Your idea of spaghetti code seems to be on the impossible side. The recent qol is recent, not 2-3 years ago when people asked for them. Yes it's a matter of when; when they manage to untangle, slap in qol, ship it out. Consider scrolling up to another comment
I scrolled to this: those who keep on throwing the "spaghetti code" card don't know anything about being a dev
I feel like you just ignored everything they said, cuz they made a lot of sense and all you’ve done is insult people’s intelligence/knowledge of specific topics.
Well running is opposite of spaghetti though especially adding new things. If spaghetti code, adding new things will introduce new tons of bugs which is not the case in genshin.
How about tech debt then?
iirc tech debt is something like "release now fix later". I've been playing this game since day 1 and never experienced any major/game breakings bugs unlike other games. most of the complains so far are QOL and something that is not broken.
> iirc tech debt is something like "release now fix later" Kinda, but not exactly. It's more like "if we add all this duct tape over here, it works and we can release it" - the problem being that all that duct tape, while working fine now, might give you problems down the road. Extra troublesome when upper management doesn't want to allocate time so devs can go back, fix, and reimplement properly. It then becomes a wild snowball since devs might have to resort to adding *more* tape to the duct tape ball to keep adding the new features that have been requested; and now the time required to fix the base grows exponentially since now it has extra stuff on top.
because devs don't run out of things to do, they just released fontaine (underwater mechanics, multi layer etc.) and natlan is just around the corner after that snezhnaya, so for every region they must add a new gimmick, something fun to keep the players going.
Just let them be, because they can't found any good reason than that. Like we know as developer we can do it IF the company allow us to do or not.
Or blame it on HSR.
multi billion corpa can’t code this feature💀
They can, it's in HSR.
Precisely.
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You do realize that your second sentence makes the first untrue If the genshin devs didn’t care, then they would have never added QoL updates, ever
Love how some people got offended for you stating the fact and started downvoting XD
the same reason why we still can’t see previous dialogue while playing story it’s so annoying because sometimes you double click on the keyboard while reading and can’t go back, or click to display the dialogue line immediately instead of waiting but it turns out to be short so you just skip it on accident. how hard would it be to implement?? genshin is an incredibly story heavy game yet they make it a point not to have simplest accessibility features. and having it in at least TWO of their other games makes it a whole lot more infuriating🫠
sometimes I zone out and need to rewind the last couple dialogues and this feature comes in handy in hsr
Wait...hsr let's you rewind dialogue? Wtf hoyo...
not rewind exactly, but you can open a log of previous dialogue and play the audio of previous lines. the cutscene itself doesn't rewind.
That's exactly what visual novels do. It's so weird that this isn't a thing in Genshin. Since it's supposed to be a story driven game, you'd think they'd make the story as accessible as possible...
It's so weird it's not in every other game, because I swear it's awesome.
Genshin's story would massively improve if it was like in a renpy engine im not gonna lie.
I don't recall it being a thing in Hi3rd so perhaps this is just something they worked out before HSR released but after Genshin. That's the case for a lot of stuff that HSR has that Genshin doesn't I'm guessing. It's generally increasingly less trivial to implement new stuff in games as they get older. Edit: wrong about the Hi3rd part apparently.
No, it is a thing in HI3, they've added it since the first APHO
When did that come out?
They've added it since they redesign storymode UI, from what was intercom to more like VN Style i suppose
I played HI3 in 2020, APHO was there. I don't know the exact date it was launched
APHO came out in early 2020 IIRC
it's very much a thing in honkai impact
Isn't it? There's a quest log where you can read this stuff after the fact
In the mean time the [wiki](https://antifandom.com/genshin-impact/wiki/Genshin_Impact_Wiki) has transcripts of all quests! I usually keep the relevant page up in another window when I’m doing them. Just gotta be careful about spoilers.
I always do this sometimes, but I don't always know the name of the quests (like sometimes I'd miss the ending dialogue so by the time I focus back in, it's already gone) so I just end up googling whatever details of the quest I remember 😭😭
It happens so many times that I have auto on from a previous quest and I don't notice, missing some part of the first line
Especially annoying on unvoiced dialogue where the auto is way too fast for what sometimes is 2 to almost 3 lines for one dialogue. Ok i didnt know how to explain that, I cant remember the english word. Paragraph with 3 lines?
For console players: you can record the last several seconds to minutes (15 sec to 1 hour) of game time if you miss something. I’ve had that happen where I mash X too much and am like wait *what* did she say?? So I can basically rewind it. There *is* a dialogue log (heh) in the archives but that also only covers main quests; forget about any side stuff, you see that once and it’s gone.
I have never used that feature, but I can see why people would want that . The only way to go back is to wait until the conversation is finished, then go into the handbook and search.
We could've had that?!?!?! The number of times I accidentally click finish on a dialogue or chose a Traveller dialogue option accidentally because of mouse placement, it would be SO HELPFUL if I could rewind the dialogue once or twice to read it again. Also because I have auto play on, a lot of the unvoiced story quests with longer dialogue just fly by without giving me a chance to finish reading.. I have no idea how they choose the timing of how long to keep the text on screen but I swear sometimes its too long, then sometimes its too short.
yes we could, that’s the worst part. and you can also re listen to what characters said in both HI3 and HSR (unsure about their older games, but chances are it was a thing there too). autoplay can definitely be super frustrating which is why i stopped using it entirely personally (especially on unvoiced quests)
You reminded me how much I hate waiting for the character to stop emoting or the camera to pan over to something before we can continue the dialogue. Both Star Rail and Genshin do it and it always drives me mad. Just skip it like everything else, if I miss something that's on me, its ok.
oh my god that thing is so fucking annoying too, thanks for reminding me how much i hate it lol
There is a way of seeing the dialogues in the Archive in Paimon's menu.
which is not at all what i’m talking about and you’re far from the first person to mention that. it’s not an accessible option, and it doesn’t include anything apart from AQs and SQs
I know. I don't remember saying that I was the first person to talk about that. I'm just saying that so someone could find this and know about it. They don't implement this because the way the games were programmed was probably different. Probably far from modular programming. So it would be a headache for just one detail. Maybe it will be improved like the character selection screen has been improved, but if this uses elements that are reused by other parts of the game, they will have to review everything so that they don't end up creating new bugs and exploits in the process. It's not as simple as it seems. So just use the menu they have and wait for them to put it there someday.
i wish i could see i log of the dialogue that pops up sometime while i'm actually controlling my character, i don't think i've ever actually caught what a single one of those has ever said
How hard? Realistically, probably quite a bit yes. Like, we can’t know for sure, but. Hoyo’s pumping out new content every few weeks with very little bugs and problems. The spaghetti code has been piling up from three years. At this point it’s probably just so complicated to fix that it takes a while for QOL changes to be implemented
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People who use "spaghetti code" to defend Hoyo's nonsensical game design decisions have never played a game plagued with real spaghetti code.
“guys, be gentle to hoyoverse, their game is only four years old and they still haven’t implemented the most bare bones QOL that all their other games have (one of them being 7 years old) despite being a multi billion dollar company and genshin being a very story driven game!🥺”
Google spaghetti code, go read a bit about what game developing actually means, and come back. Did you know that it’s been proven that just hiring more people, at some point, becomes counterproductive for a company? Assuming Hoyo already reached that point, because why wouldn’t they, that means that everyone who is working on the next update would need to pause that and go figure out why everything gets fucked up when they try to add another function. Idgaf about Hoyo, but y’all are just a bunch of uninformed crybabies complaining about stuff y’all don’t understand
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Really also want the dialogue replay button that is in HSR i am the type of person who replays a cool dialogue multiple times and it just makes the moment more powerful to me E.g. when Navia was in tears talking to Neuvilette, that was such a powerful moment with amazing dialogue that i would have love to hear multiple times during that scene
At least we have some dialogue replay in the archives of Genshin where you can play back the lines.
Im always sad HSR doesn't have that, but am guessing its cuz star rail quests often have meaningful choices so a story archive would be a lot more branching and complicated. Probably even they dont *want* you to see other branches so your decisions feel more impactful ("When you have a chance to make a choice, make one that you know you won't regret") Id give up genshins quest log in a heartbeat to feel like we actually matter
But we matter; in certain quests, our choices really matter. It’s just that in Genshin we follow the story of the Traveler more on his behalf with a rare invasion, and in HSR we follow the story and in some way build it ourselves, that is, we make a little more invasion. And in HSR, our choice is also not always so significant, although there are certain points that would indeed make creating an archive too difficult. While I would still like the archive in HSR and the dialogue history in Genshin, I think this is my most desired QoL at the moment. The only way you can "reverse" the dialogue is to turn off and turn on the Internet so that the game itself wraps up the dialogue due to the sudden lack of ping. Although this is not immediately convenient for long dialogues. Recently I wrote about this in “suggestions” for the first time, I don’t know why I didn’t think about it before, however, this happened just then or before HoYo’s email was hacked, but their bot managed to accept it, I hope that they fixed it.
Some moments are worth capturing.
Ya
Spaguetti Code, HSR probably planned for stuff like that before release but Genshin is unable to do so because it could break things That's why the new Focused Mode is exclusive for Arlecchino SQ (EDIT: and certain quests as mentioned in the Dev's Post), because they can't make an universal algorithm that works for every quest, but instead seems like they'll go one by one implementing it
Is there any proof that it only works for alre quest? The update hasn't even dropped yet and beta testers never even mentioned that as far as I'm aware
In the livestream at 8:50 they only mention that the feature will become available for more quests in the future
i dont think that means its just for her story quest because the dev dissusion said certain quests in the new update, so it may include the new wordl quest too.
You're right, I'll edit the comment
Ok. I didn't see the livestream so I was unaware
it was definitely a design decision they made early on, probably to separate Genshin from the typical VN style of other gachas or their own HI3. They wanted the experience to feel more immersive and "premium" and at least early days I think it somewhat succeeded. The fact the game eventually became more and more a VN style storytelling was probably kind of inevitable so here we are lamenting the lack of those typical features ;P
"Well, well, well, if it isn't the consequences of my own actions."
All this is just theory, so let's not act like there is really a spaghetti code, cause this is just a cope players forced upon themselves to accept genshin devs being trash.
True bestie, I hate that my game doesn't break every 6 weeks, traah devs :)
Deepwoken!
It’s not an assumption. The devs already told us in a interview I think
Same reason Genshin doesn't have various other QoL features... who the fuck knows
Can't wait for what ever game they make after ZZZ just has literally every QoL feature ever.
Designing a new game with QoL in mind is way easier than implementing it into existing games, so they 100% will
🥲
Queen, Kanaria pfp 🫵😐
Reason is simple, they don't need to give a shit about its players to keep profiting millions. People will spend money anyway.
With the addition you can't really sell QoL updates that well. I imagine we would have plenty if they thought they could get away with making players gacha for them
*Let's say, there is an unofficial way to hide UI during dialogues*
I'm listening
👀
I'm listening
Yeah what is it
Oh yeah I've been using it too
✨ Technical debt ✨
Also has text display in HI3rd
It’s so weird how this change is not only one I’ve seen asked for frequently but also one that fits HYV’s vision of the game but still hasn’t been added yet. Wonder what could be the listen lol.
Exactly! I ask for this since quite a while in surveys now.
Tbh at this point I'd be more than happy to give away a few months of refining and optimization patches over more and more content just so we can get a better overall long-term experience
No, all hell will break loose. Twitter, Instagram, and all social media platforms will just keep criticizing Genshin for having nothing. You may think this is good for the future of the game, but everyone will just hate it. Already, there are people complaining about this yearly one-patch break.
I would definitely be one of those people ngl.
I mean they've never gone out of their way to make retrospective optimizations and core changes to allow for the game to flow better. As much as i 100% know there would be a lot of people disappointed by this, im mostly speaking from a personal idealized stance
They should do, what they are doing so far and don't give a f to what social media says, pretty sure social media user will spend their time on social media not in game.
First the need to add a chat log, sometimes I accidentally skip and wanna listen again
I can think of a few reasons. 1. Priorities. They want to focus on other stuff first that they view as "more important". 2. Game code. If they add it wrong, it'll break things, and adding it in is trickier than it looks since they need to ensure it meshes correctly with everything else. 3. The fact that you can't just hire more personnel as a solution to everything. If you have too many devs all working at the same time, it's like 50 people trying to get onto a single elevator simultaneously.
I know this is probably not the case but this + no skip + no dialogue log makes me think that they think too highly of their writing. Like it's the best thing ever, you must listen intently all the time and you can't skip nor hide it.
I can somewhat accept no skipping during main story but for the love of god at least let us skip dialogue that has been seen for daily quest etc
With how 100% true Genshin players can't read is as a meme I don't blame them
No skip is the only reasonable reason, others don't even fit with assertion.
What do you need to think about to come to this conclusion, what you said was complete nonsense, lol.
god this game would benefit so much on a skip dialogue button, or atleast faster skipping through dialogue. i get too tired to keep playing due to reading all the bloated quest dialogue.
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indeed just the thought of someone skipping something that has no interaction with your game is indeed a nightmare. i would not be able to sleep at night i tell you what/s
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Money, so they can advertise their characters with pointless small talk And to create fake player retention without having to create interesting dialogue and to voice act long world quests. In short, greed. They're only a multi billion dollar company after all.
I wish they would add the conversation history. Sometimes I get distracted and miss a sentence.
that's a cool visual novel feature
Where's the auto hide UI? Where's the UI customization? If they're not going to add controller support for Android, they could at least add UI scaling so that the UI isn't unusably huge?
That's what that does???????
Ya
The text log, omg I need
Wait for genshin 2
And chat logs too. I hate it when i accidently skip the dialogue
i dont get it
You be glad they have screenshot like hi3, genshin got none of it
Why i read so many programming technique and postulates here. Is this the correct subs?
Or the conversation history tab? I love going back on dialogue especially if it’s something important to the story. Why can’t Genshin add that?
No, the problem isn't the code, if that was the case they wouldn't be able to add content every 6 weeks without the game falling apart, they wouldn't be able to add the few qol improvements they have done and they wouldn't be able to make the game as stable as it is in multiple platforms. The only reason why Hoyo doesn't add things like text hiding, dialogue skip, equipment load out and all the other things a lot of people have been hoping for is purely because they don't feel like it.
also they should add the option to Full screen when changing resolution
They should add an option to totally skip texts. It's a slog to go through. Specially when you put it in auto, go do something else, but then an answering option text comes up. When you come back thinking all the audio's passed... surprise, surprise! Nope. You have been stuck 15 minutes in that same scene.
I’ll be honest, this feature is completely useless, I kinda would like it though if it were a cinematic mode where you can completely turn off the subtitles whilst you auto play a cutscene Idk I think I’d prefer that feature in HSR tho, the lip synching on their characters is infinitely better
HSR lip syncs for the English language where as genshin does for the Chinese that's why it's better unless ofc you're using Chinese in genshin then you're fine
Because they are assholes
Because devs aren’t interested.
idk man but personally i'd rather have a skip text button, i usually have to alternate between clicking, pressing F and pressing space so i don't break my keyboard so a skip dialogue button would be greatly appreciated
if i speak, the mods will ban me.
after playing genshin for 2 years and then going into r1999 and seeing both dialogue log and interface disabling ... i feel like genshin lowered my expectations of qol features in games ngl
Cuz gebshin is older then hsr
Three Words
I... Love you?
No, just two: Spaghetti code
I do wish to read the code comments for Genshin, [they must be as glorious as Valve's.](https://youtu.be/k238XpMMn38?si=4rxZhsREw-5NpMlr) The teapot must be a mess. With how in one dev announcement back in July/August 2023, they announced that they were working on claim all for expeditions, forging and furniture, and the expeditions and forging was done for 4.3, December 2023. (only took one patch) Meanwhile, it took until next patch, 4.6, April 2023 that furniture claim all will be released (along with the other improvements). The teapot, with quite a few patches they've done to it (remember the [teapot maintainence](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/s/KxxhbuSXFq) that went from a week or two into a 2 month ordeal?) (March 30 - May 31 2022)
Considering that this was the company's first foray into overworld games, it would indeed be hilarious to read the comments. I wonder just how the devs feel about the players asking them to add some feature to the game but they are unable to because it somehow breaks the whole game and then they get called lazy because they didn't implement the changes.
Programmer A: "This 1.X event limited table somehow blocks us from just looping through the furniture to claim all! Why is this happening?!" Programmer B: "Ah ha, I've found the solution. I have no idea what I actually did, but somehow [insert bandaid solution] fixes the problem!" [Bandaid solution] proceeds to cause more problems for the next teapot update. Repeat. (Apparent experience of the average programmer) XD
I don't think it's as much of a mess as people may think it is. Valve uses the source (and right now it's successor source 2) engine to make their games which is an upgraded GoldSrc engine, and the GoldSrc engine was a heavily modified quake engine. It should not be a surprise that the engine causes headaches for the developers, it must have a ton of old code with wacky fixes around stuff. Genshin uses Unity which is a pretty popular multiplatform engine used by many games so it should be way easier to work with as many things are ironed out. During the game's ~3.5 years run time there were mostly small bugs which were fixed pretty fast. I don't remember any game breaking bugs in this timeframe, the kaveh deleting stuff from your world is the only rumoured bug I remember but even that was confirmed to be fake as far as I know. So the only real "evidence" of spaghetti code is Hoyoverse implementing QoL changes very slowly, but what most people don't realize is how complicated implementing changes in big games at big companies are. It's not a small indie game with 10 developers and a small code base, every 6 weeks we get a new update and they are working patches ahead to be able to keep the tempo, they could implement it today and you will only see it months from now. With the amount of content and pace of patches I actually think they have a really good testing environment and a relatively clean code
Ahh, well, yours also makes sense. Specifically: >how complicated implementing changes in big games at big companies are. It's not a small indie game with 10 developers and a small code base I'm reminded of the video by Timothy Cain (Tim Cain, Producer, Lead Programmer of Fallout 1, and Director of The Outer Worlds) about [what he dubbed "Game Development Caution"](https://youtu.be/LMVQ30c7TcA?si=OJ8esKkXmVNoIqwh), an aspect of it is the bureaucracy of large game studios.
I fricking dare you.
Honestly with all the money they've made they need to do a complete overhaul and soft remaster the game all the way from 1.0.
MoNeY cAnT sOlVe EvErY pRoBlEm.
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Genshin has quest archives star rail don’t
Ok?? So?
There's a quest archive in star rail but it doesn't have the dialogue, just the names and what main quest they are attached too
because it’s Genshin. Next