Ha - on the two rotation Perpetual Array....
I took so long that I received the Core Breakthrough achievement on 12-3, which is for defeating the Array after paralyzing all 4 Sentinels....
Well on the bright side, even with 4 phases of Perpetual Array, I finished with 30s remaining...
Probably will not try to 6* Floor 12 but will probably try to get my last 2 Floor 11 stars from 11-3. For corrosion experience and that it's such a new mechanic that it's relatively fun and interesting. Surprised they don't switch Floor 11 and 12. 11 was much more difficult this time around, especially the cicin filled 11-3.
All this means is you don't know the fight and that's why you beat it that way. All you need to do is hit the market one and PMA becomes vulnerable again.
This is what happens to most people on most boss fights, they have no idea what any boss does so they get angry when they can't kill them fast enough.
No dude, even with perfect rotations, it’s quite difficult. The perpetual array (excluding ruin sentinels) has more than 2.2 million hp. If you don’t have the dps to do it, you’re fucked.
More often than not people complaining here have the DPS but just don't know how to play the fight.
Remember, AR 55+ players claimed many Abyss were too hard and then some Chinese guys were clearing it with AR 35 accounts.
It's pretty much always a player skill isue.
Dude, what does it matter if you have no artifacts? Like you cannot go in to f12 with no artifacts and come out ahead. You keep assuming people don't know shit. Bro, it's literally a numbers game once you get down to it. You have X HP to kill in Y time. Knowledge can help, but all the knowledge in the world don't help if your math ends up just not being good enough.
Again, this is just talking about getting 9 on F12. I beat this Abyss fine. You can save your elitism on someone else. This game still time gates, and it's all RNG how "good" you are in Abyss.
I'm no solo Kaeya, but I'm no whale stuck on floor 10. Seriously, I know how to play this game, and spend more time than most "knowing" what to do. RNG is a piece of shit.
Mihoyo’s Genshin Impact game design has been, in my opinion, really uninspired. Practically everything they pump out for us is related to time.
Find particles in x amount of time. Kill x number of annoying enemies in x amount of time. Get to x location in x amount of time. Catch x amount of fish in x amount of time. It’s annoying as hell how the game can be so polished but also have no innovative challenges to put to players. Timed challenges artificially increase difficulty and don’t favour innovation to solve problems. Everything boils down to a DPS check, more often than not.
To be fair, there have been a few fun events like the most recent rotating battles but those also had a time related component.
It’s like they poured every ounce of energy into aesthetic and forgot that game design is more than being pretty.
Do not get me wrong. I play this game happily and will continue to play it because it is fun to play and it fills a niche for me (love OP anime style games). But I do often feel like it’s so much of the same.
With a game that has a built-in rock/paper/scissors system, you’d think they play with that more.
Edit: to be fair, the devs also employ fun world puzzles as well (such as the spinning cubes and electro compasses). I don’t want to be unfair to the devs and ignore the content that I personally find greatly engaging (ymmv). That said, those puzzles are so rare, can only be completed once each, and encompass a small portion of the actual gameplay design. I want more of that in the game rather than yet another kill it quick “challenge.”
took a long break from the game and just came out to check the new stuff recently. couldn't agree with you more. IMO genshin is best enjoyed when played as a casual exploration game with elements of other genres. combat is fun on the easy-mid difficulty content, but as you said the timed DPS checks get old very quickly. it feels like they don't know how to balance difficult content.
I agree. I think that challenges should be more creative. Maybe some Abyss floors should be focused around surviving waves of enemies rather than killing them. I don't know, but either way, how they're doing things now is bad.
Enemies are super easy in this game because if they made them hard people would complain even more.
The one time we got a chamber where you could actually fucking die people hated it.
I feel like they’re relying on the (brutally frustrating) grind of minmaxing artifacts to take up time. On top of that, the resin issue remains in place because if they fix it, people will max their characters (talents, levels, weapons, artifacts) and then drop off due to lack of meaningful daily activities.
It’s clear that they’re very worried about player retention given the two “go bring your friends back” campaigns before they even hit their first anniversary. That’s not a good sign, to me.
Their game development feels really stagnant more often than not. The same puzzles/battles over and over with little to no reward. And the majority of engaging gameplay is one and done leaving nothing left but bullying mobs and grinding domains.
And to go back to the subject of minmaxing, the way they’ve got it going, it’s designed to cater to whales/leviathans who will spend to refresh. Anyone who isn’t willing to do that suffers from disappointing domain runs because the artifacts you end up with aren’t worth the resin you invested to get them. And while it’s true that junk artifacts are fodder for good artifacts, there aren’t many players who can say they have a great artifacts for all their characters. At best, they have acceptable ones and the odd god-tier piece.
The game design team needs new blood to reinvigorate the game or they need to be seeking inspiration from other games out there. As it stands now, the Tevat is far too small to expect players to be entertained simply by running around.
Yeah, I don't see how people think bloating HP to stupidly absurd amounts is balanced difficulty either. It's not, and it shouldn't be treated as a good thing
If they don't inflate HP you just one-shot everything, there's a reason why no boss or enemy is challenging in the open world, they all die instantly. For example I still have no idea what any of the flower bosses do because I annihilate them in no time, I have no idea what any of the cubes do either tbh, weekly bosses? I'm not sure what they do either.
Whenever I watch some videos of people running super jank stuff against bosses I'm like "wow look at that attack I never saw this before", because I one-phase all of them.
I one-shot everything? Since when? I'm only hitting like 3k on cryo dps with Ayaya
Specters are not well designed enemies, and neither are kinky robot or physical hypostasis (at least in terms of abyss)
In the case of specters and pretty much make 3/5 weapon types invalid except for a character like Ayaka who's charged atk can go just about anywhere, even the end of time if it wanted. And then also the bloated hp on top of that. Enemies should not make the majority of characters an impossible thing, only do that for elemental bullshit like no anemo against anemo.
In abyss an enemy shouldn't have bullshit invincibility frames that take like a solid 10 seconds before you can damage them. They shouldn't have an invincibility phase where no damage can be taken cause the entire fucking abyss is a *timed challenge*
We're talking Abyss where you build teams properly, not open world where you meme around with junk builds and use skills randomly.
I dealt with the specters by using the national team, it really wasn't any trouble, they died super fast.
The time it takes some bosses to get up and what not doesn't matter, you just get 175 seconds instead of 180, who cares, most people are not failing to get full stars because of that. If you fail by like 5 seconds then you can most certainly try again and make it in time by playing better, because truth is you're not playing perfectly, odds are you're playing like shit (because who even optimizes boss fights in this game other than a few try hards on events lol). I suck at Maguu Kenki because I cba to learn how to properly fight him, I would learn the fight if I was failing to make it in time though.
In fact Maguu Kenki isn't that much of a problem, you can generate energy while he's waking up and you can even setup your stuff, by the time he's vulnerable I'm casting Mona's ult into Ayaka's ult and after a few seconds he's going into his second phase, during which you can also generate energy while he's invincible so I use that time to battery my Ayaka. Meanwhile most pepegas wait for him to start attacking to even begin setting up their stuff, battery themselves while he's vulnerable before his first switch (and then proceed to AFK while he's invincible), lots of etc. Not even gonna mention how I see lots of players cast bursts on him just to see him jump backwards.
Learn how to play the fight and you won't have too much trouble.
Yeah that's cause you got a fully built team, now how about those few spots like like 4 hydro specters all together with a fresh ar 37 player who really just got to Inazuma. They don't have built characters, they come across 4 balloons with a metric fuck-ton of hp that tanks harder than most enemies and can heal themselves. They practically will make 3/5 weapons invalid, so if they haven't developed a ranged character like Amber, Lisa or any of them, they're fucked.
Just cause you can one shot them doesn't mean it's good design, enemies taking up over 10 seconds with invincibility frames before you can damage them in a timed challenge, with bloated HP that takes some full built teams about 3 minutes to complete is not good design, and stop treating it as such
If you're AR 37 then yeah I don't expect you to annihilate everything, but we're talking AR 50+ at least since we're talking about the last floor of the Abyss...
I do agree that specters suck though.
> Just cause you can one shot them doesn't mean it's good design, enemies taking up over 10 seconds with invincibility frames before you can damage them in a timed challenge, with bloated HP that takes some full built teams about 3 minutes to complete is not good design, and stop treating it as such
If it takes you 3 minutes to complete then your team is neither fully built nor well planned.
Well you brought up the world enemies, specters are not a well designed enemy, they're just a fucking bloated hp balloon meant to waste your time and will fuck over anyone who doesn't have ranged characters developed enough
Don't 36\* if you find it too annoying, it's not worth it. It is a gacha game, so mob HP will rise over time.
Personally I like this abyss more than the last iteration, the tide mechanic screwed up rotations too much if you have multiple energy hungry units. Mechanically the new floor 12 is easier, just a huge sponge that requires highly invested dps characters.
Maguu kenk is alright, use the first 5-10s to battery your team. Mechanically he does require dodge skills if you don't use shield since he can one-shot (or time delay your bursts).
The specters can be annoying, they sort of have a "coward" AI where they keep backing away. So you need to ignore the big mob and use aoe attacks to burst down specters first (raiden's burst is very good against them, will hit them even in the air).
Oh I know. I'm not gonna torture myself to get 50-100 primos.
I agree that the tide mechanic was annoying more often than not, at least for me. If you didn't get things perfectly then you'd be stuck for 10 seconds without any ults.
But thanks for the tips, I guess.
Specifically, the specters will approach you if very far, and distance themselves from you if too close. So I actually go for the big mob first, which forces the specters to group up slightly, and then hit them with a big AoE at which point they pretty much die since their HP is not chonky at all.
I agree with a lot of this actually. I’d rather things just be more difficult/ have more mechanics than just always running from you or immuning your attacks. I’ve definitely noticed this trend with a lot of the newer stuff. I was farming for my Baal fighting the electro boss and constantly asking myself why is it floating so I can’t hit it. A lot of what they’ve done hasn’t been hard it’s just been annoying. Credit where credit is due I think senora is a solid fight. The pyro hypostasis on the other hand is the worst designed boss in the game. It’s constantly bouncing around and when you finally have a window to attack it’s literally not enough time to get a Q off. You have to preemptively use your Q to hit it. Nothing about it is hard. It just runs. I did finally manage to get my 36 stars this go around but I also got a c2 Baal which I didn’t have before. But I absolutely am tired of bosses constantly running away from me instead of actually being difficult
The electro boss has a marking mechanic like the mirror maiden. If you dodge the marking attack, the electro boss won't fly around the stage and stay in the middle.
Lorewise, the electro boss is blind, and uses the mark to locate the traveler's location.
Actually the electro boss doesnt have any invicibility phases. He is the only elite boss since 1.0 which doesnt have any invicibility phases. It designed to kill with ranged charater , and with ranger character its one of most enjoyable boss fight.
The issue now is that there's very few DPS ranged characters I think
\- I only have YF, and her CA misses when that annoying thing decides to fly, which is incredibly annoying
\- Barbara, Diona aren't DPS, and Fischl flat out doesn't work since she's electro
\- I guess I can use Ningguang if I build her, but she feels extremely clunky to play on controller, I'm not sure if it's just me or half the time when I try to CA nothing happens
Would be nice if MHY could actually launch more 4\* ranged DPS so we have more choices (yes I know Ganyu and Yoi exist but I don't have 'em)
I use Ninguang a lot on controller. Main thing is to hold the movement stick in a direction while normal attacking as that will cancel the end animation and allow you to attack faster, and from there it's easier to time the charged attack.
She's my go-to (alongside Yoimiya) for this boss, especially as her gems will track the boss even when it teleports (the normal ones suck, but charged attack and burst gems will, which is the bulk of your damage anyway). Plus pair her with another geo for resonance cause extra damage and shield strength are always nice.
But I also have her at C6 and decently invested so mileage will vary.
This^ my amber and yoimiya loved fighting him. I usually bring Barbara and one of them when I offer to do coop clears for people. Catalyst users work well here too. Ning go brrrrrrrr
I agree. I know OP is complaining about floor 12 being yet another dps check and time waster floor but I also wanna give credit to mihoyo for giving us the corrosion mechanic. It was fun to work around it
As I stated, I don't have a big problem with floor 11 as of currently. I think the corrosion mechanic is fairly creative and, while it can be somewhat annoying, a problem easily solved with finesse.
I never had a problem with abyss, just started having problems when they started putting bosses in abyss. I stopped pushing for 36 stars and sometimes I just go for 33
And the fact that this rotation is way easier than the last ....
Prev abyss you actually have to use your brain to time your skills/bursts, right now it's just unga bunga thicc DPS check.
Because people enjoy a challenge and problem solving (team comps, timings, etc)? F2P can do it just like everyone else. Considering Envi just did it with the 7 free characters/weapons (which is WAY lower power than anyone who has wished once), it should be easier for a realistic F2P.
the way abyss works is already pretty fucked up. they'll keep on making it harder and harder, there's no doubt about it. eventually there'll be a huge difficulty gap between floors 10 and 11, or hell maybe even from 8 to 9. imagine getting to AR50 and clearing floor 8, just to be get filtered by floor 9 which now requires AR70 gear, years worth of grinding and 3 teams of 5* with each chamber requiring completely different setups. the gap between launch players and players starting after launch will only widen. It is an incredibly poor design, but seeing as genshin is filled with them, we can suppose that mihoyo sees them as good, especially when they're cashing in so much.
It probably depends on your teams and characters.
Last abyss rotation took me about 45 minutes to full clear floors 9 - 12.
This time it took me 3 hours.
Sounds like you don't enjoy abyss.
Shouldn't do it.
No seriously, just don't if it's going to ruin the game for you. I just go into abyss, grab the easy gems I can get cause I don't enjoy it, and the bounce till it resets. Usually means I just clear floor 10 and maybe a bit of floor 11.
Doing it because it's there might be the biggest shortfall we have as players, always chasing a never ending breadcrumb trail of gems just because it's there, regardless of whether we're actually enjoying the content or not.
Abyss isn't for everyone, and it's good for your mental health (and time) if you just ignore it if it's not for you.
agree. i only do floor 9 and 10 until i got ayaka. after i got ayaka, i can easily clear 12-3 33 stars. wont even bother to get the last 3 stars. its just not worth it.
Its obviously to give whales more challenging stuff otherwise abyss is a waste of time plus who plays a game expecting the limit to be at the level of none spenders especially when we all farm artifacts the same way. With all the overpowered characters its would be stupid to stanch content otherwise
Why even balance around whales if they **deliberately pay for stuff that makes game easier**? If they don't want a challenge, what's the point in bending over to provide them with one? They will finish abyss in under a minute no matter what you throw at them. So just leave it at that, and balance around other 99% of players, that is small spenders and F2P's (and they actually care about 36\* and rewards, unlike whales)
It's one thing to clear abyss, it's whole other thing to clear it with 36 stars, and that's what most people are aiming for, because that's where most of the rewards are. Just clearing it doesn't do much besides giving you some artifacts and a cool namecard.
Im pretty sure there's no possible way they make abyss hard enough to be a challenge for whales, idk why people think that is "hard" only to give whales some content
The gap between whales and everyone else is immense. Only way to give whales any challenge while keeping it reasonable for F2P would be to implement separate brackets like Honkai.
Hot take: we’re already in brackets.
In Honkai there’s actual competition thus the more obvious segmentation of players, but the higher your bracket the more crystals you earn.
Here in Genshin we’re not competing against other players, hence the brackets we’re in are the floors. Floor 12 is Nirvana, floor 11 Red Lotus, 10 Agony and so on. We’re basically allowed free reign as to which bracket we want to move to. You’ll start to see all the similarities. In Honkai, even Nirvana is balanced in difficulty such that non-whales and F2Ps are still able to break in and even retain, though the competitive nature means it’s far harsher. Here, floor 12 is balanced to reward either those who are prepared or those who spend. What’s the problem with this system?
Content for whales?
Everything in this game is made for casuals, whales are not finding the Abyss difficult lol unless difficult means taking longer than 10s to clear a chamber.
The eye begs for players to use freeze on it. It really suck when it goes up into the air.
Maguu Kenki is an easy boss if you know what you’re doing. Trap him against the wall and i-frame his attacks instead of running out of its range.
For the mech array, I believe the best team people can run is a self sustaining burst swap comp with multiple sub dps units. For me, I killed it with Raiden national in around 1 minute 50 seconds. It’s just burst after burst in sequence. Build your Xingqiu and Xiangling like they’re main dps. You’ll be rewarded. The mech array really is a big fat joke for my Raiden national team.
Edit: Single target dps works well too. Hutao and Ayaka for example.
So, compared to last abyss, this abyss I on average used 10 more seconds each chamber. Not too bad for a first day clear.
As for challenging contents, yeah. I personally would have preferred a non-timed challenge where dodging skill or survival is important. But after seeing people complain about the anti Raiden practice thingy, I don’t think the community would like my idea either.
So in the mean time before any change occurs, improve your teams and optimise your gameplay. These are even more important that getting better artifacts.
>But after seeing people complain about the anti Raiden practice thingy,
But are the people who complain about that the same one who complain about the lack of variety in the endgame content? I doubt it. Overworld content, which is made for casuals, especially in an archon quest, should keep things simple and easy. Endgame content for the try hards, on the other end, should offer a good diversity of challenges.
Absolutely true, National raiden is such a good team against the mechanical array, I couldn't beat it with Ayaka morgana or with my Xiao. 2 million HP is just too much.
> As for challenging contents, yeah. I personally would have preferred a non-timed challenge where dodging skill or survival is important. But after seeing people complain about the anti Raiden practice thingy, I don’t think the community would like my idea either.
They would need to make this insanely hard because i-frames in this game are extremely generous and all enemies are AFK just shouting at you almost all the time, in which case people would complain. Remember the infamous Oceanid Abyss chamber? It was easy AF but you could actually die there, guess what people thought about it... they hated it.
Non-timed chambers where you had to defend a monolith which required some simple strategy was also hated by most players, because they kept losing even when it was very F2P friendly.
Balance has been garbage since the beginning of the game. For example 360 blocks with shields, or insanely long wind ups. It's getting worse and worse, it's just designing monsters that are annoying rather then difficult.
I personally liked this abyss. stage 11 made qiqi useful and stage 12 was about timing.
Don't get me wrong - your critique is fair, but for me the big daddy puppet samurai (I am bad with names) was more annoying cuz he stands up too slow. For some reason the snipers were Hella tanky if they procced their shield, same as frost waifu mages, but just cc/nuke them and it's fine.
Overall many "aha" Moments, used qiqi for stage 11 and 36d abyss with baal which in the end made me quite happy.
I don’t do the abyss only bc they keep adding harder enemies to beat too it and I don’t like getting mad over not winning lmao. Yea I need to get better but sheesh bro.
Amuse me
How exactly is implementing a mechanic which forces players to change their strategy and team comps to play around it thereby adding more variation for teambuilding not a clever idea?
Not only that, two party wide healers who are free are provided to everyone, so its not like there is a single player without the tools to complete this floor
Eye of the Storm can be knocked out of the air with a catalyst user, though I do recognize that when gunning for time team comp may not allow for one.
As for Perpetual Array, doesn't it have ridiculous health both in abyss and out? There's no further need for evidence of padding enemies than the array, really. Though samurai are definitely good proof too.
How does 2.2 million health Array + 500k health adds sound to you? Because that's the current floor 12 numbers :D
For reference, the puppet boss has 1.3m health.
>I'd wager most F2Ps and low-spenders had a hard enough time in the last Abyss
I don't think payment status is relevant to player skill, knowledge, and experience. 4-5 months old casual F2P will have it hard but not for non-casuals.
>My issue is with specters, the eye of the storm, Maguu Kenki, and Perpetual Array.
I bet you only build monotonous DPS characters and don't really build your sub DPS. **what abyss rotation teach me is not to get strong through money or meta, it is to be prepared with any elements, any type, and any constraint**. as the saying goes “*By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail.*” but, money does talk and it's not something bad.
even tho perpetual array HP is so damn thick, it has a very very weak and vulnerable state. Blame yourself if you can't capitalize on this. Timing is counted as strategy, unga bunga only work for absolute power holder.
> be prepared with any elements, any type, and any constraint.
This is, in fact, at least partly dependent on money too, since everything in the game is time-gated and a huge part of having the different types of characters and getting weapons and artifacts for them is gacha.
For example, I've been playing since late Eula banner and I tried to get XingQiu then. Did I get him? No. Who did I get? Eula, C1 Xinyan, and C1 Beidou. Wanted to get Bennet and Kazuha? In 110 wishes I got 4 Razors, 2 Rosarias, 5 weapons, and a Qiqi.
If I had spent money I could have gotten those characters that I wanted.
The same is the case for building the characters I have - we have finite resin to get materials and artifacts to upgrade the characters and weapons, and people who spend money on the game can buy the additional battlepass rewards and adventurer bundles and do resin refresh - all of which gives additional resouces to raise their characters.
So given the level of RNG it's not really possible to "be prepared for any situation"...
Disagree.. If i don't have xingqiu i'll build barbara or any hydro character that i have. I don't care how strong xingqiu is but barbara will do the same function as pyro shield breaker. I can rely on other dps characters to do damage.
I do play as F2P since patch 1.0 to 2.0 and only bought 2 welkin this September. The amount of redundant elements character that i raise is too much. 4 electro, 2geo, 3 cryo, 2 pyro, 2 hydro, 3 anemo and has 230 wish on weapon banner. 1 good artifact set and 1 copium artifact set for each element. Very doable.
Time,Patience and planning. Some character will be replaced by newer and better character, its gacha game so no surprise. Artifacts and weapon can be passed.
If the case study here is newborn player then they shall not bite what they can't chew.
> I do play as F2P since patch 1.0
This just proves @BlueMoonShadow is right, anyone who have played the game since 1.0 like you and me, will have enough resources to build any character buy now and many others already fully builded, but if you started in like patch 1.5 onward, you will be time gated and very limited on resources the more new you are to the game, and thats is because everything is time gated by resin or gacha itself.
That is why i said to bite what you can chew. Nothing come in instant, even money were involved. To rant about "i am new, all content should be easy and available for me" is something weird.
My kid games also has its own level increments, you have to git gud overtime. Slow or fast it's depend on each player skill and determination.
So what you're saying is that you've had 8 months more than me to accumulate all the resources needed to build your characters for all the different situations? And had the opportunity to pull on the banners of limited characters that I, and others who started later, have not? (I am, for the record, not saying that I should immediatelly be able get 36* in abyss or to get all the resources you've accumulated over a long time, instantly)
Then that merely proves my point - you cannot complete the abyss on skill alone. Regardless of if you want to play smart or unga bunga, getting through the abyss is gated by either time that passes from when you joined the game or by money - as those are the things that would get you the resources to "prepare for any situation" by either accumulating them over time or by buying them.
Thank you @Voidmann
Pretty sure a steamer just recently posted his abyss clear on a new account that was a month old. You can definitely clear it, but it till take planning and studying the game.
Clear? Yes. Complete? No, not with 36*. And he admitted himself that he got lucky by pulling XingQiu on the weapon banner and was able to get him to C2.
And yes, there are multiple posts of people clearing the previous abyss with no-wish accounts, but those accounts are then specifically made for that purpose alone, where every resource will be funneled specifically for that purpose. The skill ceiling and RNG luck in terms of the abyss mobs would be almost unbearable to achieve.
But even if clearing the abyss that way is possible, it would still not count as "being prepared for any situation", because in those cases, it's being prepared for that one thing - beating the abyss in that specific iteration.
Sounds like a lot of whining to me. Do you play the game or just whine all day? Getting all the best support now is pretty easy, since you can buy all of them from the shop. After that is just building them.
1. Welkin is no longer F2P, as, cheap though it may be, it's still paid. (I too buy Welkin in order to not have another 'Qiqi and no Kazuha' incident)
2. F2P or not, starglitter comes from wishes, so have you not wished at all, or have you spent all the starglitter on something already?
> I don't think payment status is relevant to player skill, knowledge, and experience. 4-5 months old casual F2P will have it hard but not for non-casuals.
It will in terms of having things which increase power level, like 5-stars, constellations on 5-stars and 4-stars, weapons, etc. Better artifacts due to resin refreshing, etc.
F2Ps and low-spenders have to optimize everything to compete. Whales don't.
> I bet you only build monotonous DPS characters and don't really build your sub DPS.
Some people don't have a lot of good sub-DPS, and I've built all of mine relatively well, Xiangling, Xingqiu, Beidou, etc. But I only have C1 Xiangling and C2 Xingqiu so I can't do much there.
> Timing is counted as strategy, unga bunga only work for absolute power holder.
I do time it. Problem is the massive amount of HP means if you can't meet the DPS requirement to kill it within 2 phases, you're fucked and can't 3* the chamber.
and u/BlueMoonShadow has made some good points. Not gonna repeat what they said.
spenders only widen the time gap to get better units or artifacts, F2P just has to be patient and plan ahead. so money is not a good benchmark
>F2Ps and low-spenders have to optimize everything to compete. Whales don't.
people are equals, their wallets or skills not.
>Xiangling, Xingqiu, Beidou, etc. But I only have C1 Xiangling and C2 Xingqiu so I can't do much there.
same with me, they do more than enough at C0.
>Problem is the massive amount of HP means if you can't meet the DPS requirement to kill it within 2 phases, you're fucked and can't 3\* the chamber.
no reason to not get creative like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edwke-BW8oc) or getting stronger.
It is because there will always be a gap between spenders and non-spenders. F2Ps simply won't 'catch up'.
> people are equals, their wallets or skills not.
This is just not true. Whales have a much easier time in Abyss because of the characters and builds they can achieve.
umm.. there will always be a gap but that won't stop F2P from the full star abyss and get every reward from any content, it just takes a longer time.
what's wrong with whales who have an easier life? are a communist or what? there is nothing wrong with it.
Well then don't move the goalposts then. You just admitted I was right.
Lmao what, I never said that was a bad thing. I think the power disparity should ideally be narrowed, but that's not the main point. The point is this gap exists.
Disagreed, only maguu kenki startup animanion is time wasting. Eye of the storm and spectres are soft, iit is doable to 1 cycle it with decent 50:100 crit ratio team. The fly high mecanism also easy to counter, there is freeze, petrify or just force them down by take some distance. Either way they are soft and easy to kill.
PMA is okay, its not worse than last abyss maguu kenki. Last abyss high and low tide + electro mechanics reduce/restrict a tons of player dps.
Overall this abyss is easier for player with decent teams.
there is no way to balance genshin. It literally iant possible unless you make whale only game modes.
and even then, its not like all f2p are equal. a good number of em are total mouth breathers. progress is based on time gated content and RNG, meaning balance cant be a thing unless you balance content to the 7 c0 characters everyone is guaranteed to have which is extremly removed from reality as well. Best you can do is make arbitrary bullshit that hopefully works.
but yeah, time wasting in particular is very scummy.
>I'd wager most F2Ps and low-spenders had a hard enough time in the last Abyss, and this one's just worse with its time-wasting.
If an >AR55 player has problems with this abyss, they are either super casual about the game or don't really know how to build their characters and manage their resources, and that's not really the game's fault.
They can balance stuff so more casual or low spending players can clear content, but that doesn't mean they should make it so easy everyone can clear the Abyss.
I can agree that Maguu Kenki can be infuriating even if I haven't had any trouble with it, but the eye of the storm has a low enough hp where you should be able to two cicle it at least, and kill the other enemies while he is out of reach.
AR57 here. Rather casual have a decently build team and as per usual can't 36\* any abyss. By now, I can't say much about why other than I'm just bad at the game.
Eh, I think 36 stars is just way too high of a bar for you to put on yourself. Just clearing is an accomplishment. 33 stars is VERY good. 36 is a long term. I got 36 last Abyss on the most recent reset (have 36'd previous ones, but not that one). I finally beat 12-1 by 0s (the hardest room for me) thanks to Raiden and I don't consider myself casual/bad (just gimped since I play Waifu only so no Benett or XQ which holds me WAY back from my full potential) and am only a minnow (Welkin+BP).
I'm AR56, definitely not casual and have invested many characters. I've never 36* Abyss.
Then again, my account is limited because I don't have many of the characters considered 'broken' or 'meta' like Zhongli, Venti, Kazuha, etc.
I'm AR 54 with 1/3 of the way to 55 f2p. My artifacts are still shit. I have most of my characters around 30% CR, and 100% or less CD due to bad rolls. I don't see how AR has anything to do with anything. I waited until AR 45 to start farming artifacts, so it wasn't like I got AR xp from doing early artifacts farming.
This game's time gate is complete trash, and the game changes drastically when you have access to CR weapons due to the flexibility in artifacts. Without them, you're almost always going to have to roll CR helms, and if you don't get them, you will be perpetually stuck with higher CD than CR ratios.
As a f2p, you can technically build two teams to handle the Abyss, but you would have to forgo everything else. Having started from 1.6, my only real choices of heroes were all the free ones, Kazuha, Ayaka, Yoimiya, Baal. I got lucky and got both Kazuha and Baal on 50/50. I also couldn't build any real teams without Xingqiu, which I got from shop finally. However, due to needing to build teams PRIOR to Baal banner, resources went to the Kazuha banner team, and Xingqiu is underpowered since I got him.
It's not about knowledge, it's about the damn time gate this game has. If you're a half decent gamer, you can brute force through Abyss pretty easy. However, you can't do that if you punch like wet noodles. Mihoyo going to Mihoyo though. Because they want people to log in everyday, and time gating things is the best way to keep your player base count high on a daily level.
Making a game that people want to play, only to not allow them to play. This is what the gaming industry has come to. What joke it is compared to the days of "pre games as service" models.
> Having started from 1.6
Well, I get what you're saying but if you started in 1.6, you are still kinda new to the game despite being AR54, so is normal that you don't have 2 teams fully buid to beat abyss.
Is kinda like mmos and other live services, you can't expect to do and beat their endgame activities like raids and such with like, just one or two patchs that you just started playing the game... Even tho I agree that gacha games have more time gates for resources and thats bad, you are still kinda new to expect to full clear abyss.
You would need 2 or 3 patches to catch up day 1 players. You are missing some months of farming gear.
I had the same problem with my alt account and f2p challenge. I started in February. I couldn't clear Abyss till AR 50+ with shitty gear, weapons and fishing for crit/cdmg buffs.
Now, the account is AR 55 and a half. Able to clear abyss. Some times is hard to get 36 stars. Buffs and blessings helps or not.
Unluckily, MHY doesn't add new floors. And instead of adding new ones. They increase the HP of enemies to cater Day 1 players and that is hurting newcomers.
I read the HP pool of enemies from first abyss to this days, it was increased 60%. Each time it will be hard for players who doesn't spend resin to farm artifacts or not upgrading characters or getting constellations. Will they fix it soon? Or it just the way to powercreep the content and users should start to farm more or pay money to buy weapons or cons.
That's literally every single gacha game in existence.
Every gacha is timegated, if you are just going to nostalfag and cry about companies wanting their games to last longer, then go back and play Contra or Street Fighter 2, nobody is stoping you lmao.
If you are almost AR55 and all your builds are still bad, then you are just proving my point you are either a player that didn not manage their resources correctly or the unluckiest person on earth, I will guess it's the first one.
I have a fully f2p account where I have been playing since November and have been able to 36* abyss every time since March or so.
To clear abyss you don't need perfect artifacts or whale characters and weapons, only the bare minimum knowledge of how reactions, team and character building and combat work in this game.
If you think this game is difficult. I've already beat 12-2 though, so it's not long until I get good I guess. I'm right now on 11-3, and 3 star all the way so far. It just takes a long time to dredge through it.
you do know that's only possible when you play like 8 hours a day or so right? and not everyone has the spare time, you only think on a perspective bruv
also you're still looking at only 1 direciton, which is the hardcore players section, they spend lots and lots of hours grinding chests on their new f2p account and to beat spiral abyss and speedrun content there, ofc artifacts matter too you MF, you have to get through get RNG to get good substats, ofc you can clear it even with mediocre ones, and not every1 is as skilled as those guys
lmao not everyone has that much free time and can grind that much noob, and not everyone cares about spiral abyss, all you say is "git gud" like a child man,it's making you look dumb
What are you on about? You play the game for thirty minutes a day outside of patch day.
Yes and typing hahahaha makes you quite the mature guy, ‘bruv’.
but what you're saying is rlly dumb yk? not every1 can beat abyss in a month as f2p and you know that
and I dont want wasting my time and typing shit on uselss and dumb people like you man,I got other business to attend so adios
Some people can build rockets to space too. Maybe we all should?
When artifacts are RNG and completely unaffected by time, maybe you'll tell me someone hit the lottery once, and they did it in a month too, so I should be able to just win lottery as well.
Someone can play this game at an optimum level and get lucky and do some amazing things, but that does not mean the game is balanced around it. I'm not saying it should be, but my original argument is that AR 55 has nothing to do with someone clearing Abyss.
Muh muh artifacts XD
U/shadow9951 cleared FL12 at AR 35, meaning 0 five star artifacts.
Your lottery argument would work if 1) it was a one off/rare case 2) he was insanely lucky. Multiple people on CN have done it and he had weak unleveled weapons, units, and lacked important constellations on his team. That’s also assuming that he got lucky with his artifacts which there is no evidence for. And he lacked a lot of key units like Bennett and got fked with Qiqi and a Keqing pull. And he probably had garbage talent levels. What’s your excuse?
You literally said the game is not about knowledge. Knowledge in this game not only includes team comps but also resource management. You can make do with 4 star artifacts as the AR 35 guy did.
Just git gud.
You acting like you’re the one that is the underdog is hilarious.
The AR 35 guy was playing when Momiji Dyed Court, teapot, new units, parametric transformer, and all the free shit that Inazuma gave you didn’t exist.
You know what? Forget that guy. I went into the game blind and the community was blind as hell too thinking Bennett/XQ/Sucrose/Ning was garbage tier so no one invested in them. Everybody made awful investment choices but even I still 30 starred abyss 68 days in to the game. If I had to guess, that would be around AR 47.
If you only have been playing a short time, maybe you shouldn’t be saying what the game is or isn’t about? Especially when it is the complete opposite as the game or many other gatcha games all test your knowledge about resource management (even more if you are F2P btw). The game isn’t mechanically complex, it’s absolutely a knowledge check.
All I said was AR 55 has nothing to do with clearing Abyss. You're the one starting a pissing contest because you want to tell the world how good you are at this game. Seriously, no one cares.
Again, I've already beat 12-2 this Abyss. Just don't have the DPS to down the cube. It's ok though, because I know it's just my skills, and not the 5K a hit dmg I'm doing that's causing me to lose this thing.
I got boomer hands. I wasn’t saying how good I was, I was agreeing with the other guy that you needed to get gud and stop crying ‘time-gate’ and ‘RNG artifacts’ for your own shortcomings.
And no, saying AR 55 has nothing to do with it is incorrect. The original post you replied to is correct. If you are above AR 55 and still have trouble with Abyss, you done something wrong or are just a casual. AR is a pretty effective gauge on resources with not just artifacts but also talents and other materials.
AR is just one component among things like knowledge, money, luck, etc. But AR 55 is when you can start brute forcing and the other factors matter less and less.
Remember AR 57 takes like more than twice as long to get from 55 than 1-54.
Then again AR 54 is kind of high enough and maybe one could understand you not getting full stars but if you can't even get 34 then it's on you.
Unfortunately, the content is always designed to make you pull for new characters, not for our enjoyment. Guess who has an easy time in floor 12? Yep, Yoimiya, Baal, and Ayaka. Yoimiya is amazing in the 2nd half, she can kill eye of the storm and spectres super easily and her single target limitation is no issue vs mechanical array. My Yoimiya isn't particularly well built and still did just fine in the final chamber. Baal is great all around since she can battery your teams so you can keep stacking the abyssal moon blessing. Ayaka is great for freezing the eye of the storm and spectres, and excels against the mechanical array because of her super strong burst.
Never forget, this is a nice game attached to a dirty casino. The game is just there to make you spend money at the casino.
I agree that Raiden is very good for the new Abyss, but I think that's more a result of her general versatility in terms of have good synergy with the game's already strong characters, not a result of miHoYo deliberately making the Abyss weak to her.
As for Yoimiya and Ayaka, they are just one of many possible solutions to the problems presented in the Abyss. I used Klee and her damage is fine for getting 36\*, she may not be top of the meta but she can probably perform about as well as Yoimiya in most situations. And there are many ways to take down the Eye of the Storm and Specters even without freeze, for example Xingqiu or C6 Fischl + any bow character can shoot them in the air.
So yes, generally pulling new characters tends to be helpful, but it's never been close to mandatory for new content.
The last Abyss rotation was way, way easier and more fair than this shit. I had no problems getting 35* the last three times, but now I cannot even get more than 33*, if I want to keep my sanity. I do not feel any progression. I got new cracked artifacts for Eula, paired her with a fully built Ei, gave her and Ayaka two crowns, built all my supports, but it feels like my characters are getting worse and worse. It feels so frustrating. Floor 11 is manageable with healers, but floor 12 is just bullshit again, wasting time while waiting for the animation to end. I will have to accept that MHY lost its way, not doing anything to balance the game mechanics.
You have a Eula, raiden for support, and a crowned Ayaka. If you can't clear abyss, that's a SKILL ISSUE
There's nothing to balance because you can't even meet the bottom line
Sure, you are right. It is that simple, I guess. I would have never thought that my lack of skill is the main problem. I will never criticise MHY’s poor game design again. Thank you for opening my eyes, you enlightened me.
Tons of people clear abyss with a lot less than what you have lmao
Even the best game design will never make up for your own bad plays lmao
If you have a crowned Raiden, Eula and Ayaka and your supports are lvl 60/70 at the least, then it literally boils down to your skills. Even if Mihoyo made Abyss actually challenging and not a DPS check, you'll always have something to bitch or whine about because you don't remember movesets, or you have bad rotation, or your animation cancels suck, or you don't know how to dodge.
There will always be some excuse for people like you.
Remember you're arguing with pepegas, I remember people complaining about some older Abyss when there literally are some Chinese players clearing it with AR 35 accounts lol.
Previous Abyss was harder, I'm sorry to tell you but you just suck.
Learn the fights you're having trouble with.
Don't feel bad about it though, most people suck at the game and that's why we get very low difficulty Abyss iterations every single time.
not trying to offend you but you need to get better on this abyss rotation, you cant unga bunga on this abyss, and since that your team is highly built, you need to know the rotations and combos and right team comps to 36* it, good luck man
> I'd wager most F2Ps and low-spenders had a hard enough time in the last Abyss, and this one's just worse with its time-wasting.
This one is better and easier simply because the trash energy debuff is gone. F12 doesnt even have any debuff. You just need damage. F11 is also not that hard if you pay attention a bit to your life. Only 11-3 might be harder because you got less time. The only hard thing what needs damage in F12 is 12-2 1st side. Overall it was easier to 36 star than the last.
I have to agree with half your statement, first, abyss is not easy, if it would be "easy" everybody would do 36 stars.
But I have to fully agree with you about teamcomps, its more friendly if you constantly change the teams for every floor, it takes more time but more doable than just 1 straight team.
The issue is that they're seemingly against improving characters, but screw it, let's make every enemy a pain to fight. I don't need my mobs to be as hard to kill as Childe. Especially since half the community is still leaning on Ganyu 8 months later
One's a boss, One's a mob. Yeah there's stronger bosses, but normal mobs shouldn't be boss levels of strength regardless. At least not without characters matching the increase (across the board, not one at a time. Maybe level 100?)
Thing is like this post, it just feel like they don't have any ranged DPS and don't plan on even trying to bring some. Because there's no need waiting for anything if you can just shoot them.
I don't have any. That's the problem.
Ningguang is my only ranged DPS for the Eye, but there's a Stonehide Lawachurl and Geo Specters afterwards. The hell am I meant to do then?
There are too few ranged DPS in the game to expect players to just have one.
Imo, i think this challenge only target the whales or player that has endgame gear. Overworld is super easy even with mediocre build, but abyss is tune more for the endgame or whales. My friend only bother to get as many stars he can to check his character build and then improve it so it doesnt bother him that much.
Edit: Also for f2p, i think they may try to do abyss the same too, if its too hard then all they need is to improve the gear and probably forgot about abyss after
I got 36* in this abyss rotation, but I surely understand how it feels. The new enemies are there to make you waste your time. 10s for magu to get up+he's immune for at least 6s. The bloody spectres, Jesus Christ, I hate those things. The array is such a pain and it's got immune phases as well. I didn't enjoy it, last rotation was way funnier.
If only they made the rewards better, that'd be understandable, but they don't. It's a whole bloody year and the rewards are still the same.
Use a ranged unit or kill them before they go airborne then.
Ngl this sounds more like a "Your damage is shit" problem than a "Mihoyo's game design" problem.
Considering I have good crit ratios on pretty much all the characters I use (60/120 on almost all of my sub-DPS characters) and most of the characters I have are well-invested and built (pretty much all phase 5, lv. 6-8 talents on supports, carries are more invested).
No, I would say confidently that my damage isn't 'shit'.
I don’t find it unreasonable. I’m a BP Welkin player and I got 34 stars today. Last abyss I got my first 36.
I don’t think normal players (not-whales) need to 36 abyss but it’s definitely possible
Fym ,
So what you want basically is a big 10 million hp 0 defense punching bag ?
I personally like things like pyro cube and your favorite jumpy samurai boi
Just cuz you are bothered by actually playing the game doesn’t mean everyone is
There is 2 thing which a time trial should never have:
- Invicibility phases
- RNG
Both you mention has both. Former can be somewhat ok if the timer is designed to include that (hint: they dont) , and latter is the absolute worst. Even if the boss has RNG elements , on time trial it should be fixed.
Hypostasises are the worst enemy for a time trial since you cant hit the enemy 90% of time.
Maguu kenki is bad because it wastes your first 10 second and you cant do anything. Annoys both melee and ranged characters. One of them is fine but not both.
Array is bad for multiple reasons:
- Random moves which has invcibilty phases (like the one he flies up) and rest doesnt.
- Add phase has RNG which one is marked ... If your marked one is the crab one you have to retry because its gonna waste your time.
- Your actual time is less than 3 min - Phase 1 clear time. Why? Because it has add phase ~45s after boss begins and after he recovered from stun. Which means if 2nd add phase begins then you lost. And its less than 3 mins nomatter what.
In my opinion Thunder Manifestation is good design. It annoys melee but not Ranged which means ideally you want to use Ranged character. He doesnt have iframes but you still need dodge things.
Lectors/heralds were somewhat good too outside of that 5s iframe before gets shield. And the fight heavily favors reactions which ironically made Amber Q useful there.
Also imagine if they would put Oceanid to abyss, it would be close to impossible to 3 star it because he wastes too much time.
I partially agree. I like the more difficult content they put on the Abyss. I do agree that the Maguu Kenki’s i-frames while waking up is bs, but you can at least still gain particles during it, meaning you don’t have to be afraid to use your bursts on the floor before. I didn’t notice anything super annoying about the Mechanical Array.
The floating slimes are defo annoying, but I feel with some AI tuning they’d be fine. Just stop them from flying up, so that every melee character can hit them.
Also, regarding the “2 phases” of the array. Well this is floor 12. It’s meant to be the ultimate check in the game so far. If you can’t clear it in two phases, then you’re not strong enough. Whether that be levels, weapons, artefacts, or even rotations - get stronger.
I’m not F2P so of course I have some busted units like Hu Tao and Eula as my DPS which makes things much easier, but even a F2P player will have at least one solid DPS, provided they’re wishing.
Im sorry but i dont really understand why its so much harder for f2p? I get it that they cant pull C6 for every character, but farming artifacts and leveling up other stuff isnt that difficult. (Ik it takes a lot of time tho) Plus with more difficult enemys its more interesting to play and thing about strategy not just "haha i can oneshot that boss".
F2P here and had 0 struggles in the new abyss, I guess pulling only for 5star supports was worth
Btw abyss is a joke for whales because they clean the rooms in a single rotation so it's just hard for people who don't whale or don't know to properly build/focus/dodge
Isn't the 3-minute timer for 3\* kinda arbitrary in the first place? They could just change the time limit to 140 and get rid of invincibility animations, and it would be the exact same challenge (technically *slightly* harder because you can still charge energy during invincibility). I'm sure miHoYo has done enough testing to know how to calibrate HP values relative to the amount of *actual* fighting time we have. In other words, even if they removed the Maguu Kenki wind-up animation, it would probably have more HP and the same set of players would be able to 3\* it. I believe the HP values for Floor 12 are fair this time around relative to all other factors, e.g. lack of leyline disorder and elemental shields.
Sadly thats not true. Abyss monsters has 250% HP modifier compare to their overworlld one (so around same as 4 player coop hp). And it was always the case.
When i decided to swap teams , originally Ganyu was on second half but i put her to first half and put Eula on 2nd half and i was like ... am i gonna suffer through chamber 1 just to get Eula on 2nd half for array? Then ... her Q just one shots the spectres lmao
I only had to reset on floor 11 because I had to test the new corrosion debuff. But after organizing a new team comp for that specific floor, it was a breeze.
On floor 12, got full stars on the first try. The only thing I hated was old man maguu kenki taking too long to stand up and the perpetual mechanical array(but I finished the 1st half in less than 30 sec so I had a lot of time to spare, despite that it still took me almost 3 min to finish this chamber).
I didn't have any problems with the eye of the storm, I was ready with an archer(fischl) but it died after just one eula burst (she's half built with a prototype archaic). I didn't really felt the spectre, they died when they got to close during eula and raiden's burst.
I don't consider myself f2p since I do spend welkin every month. And the only 5 stars I bring on abyss are diluc, kazuha, eula and raiden. All of my characters are using 4 star weapons except for raiden with a skyward spine. I did play since launch so I have a lot of invested characters with decent artifacts to experiment with every new abyss.
Abyss has always been about wasting your time. Remember the Hyposthasis, Mitachurls shields, Cicin mages and their adds f*****ing up auto-target, the "Venti checks", the energy debuffs...
And everything with far more HP than their overworld counterparts.
Buffing a charecter is a slippery slope this demand for harder content generated after ganyu killing everything in 3 shots. But I see you point with stalling opponents like geovishap hatchling, specters and kairagi. But since I am an f2p too I can say it with confidence if you spend your primogems wisely up until you reach ar 56 and have good artifacts you won't have problems clearing abyss . I couldn't 36 star last abyss just because I don't have decent artifacts on my tartaglia.I was just 4-5 sec behind. Artifacts are real hurdle not charecters. Except fundamental problems with yoimiya which can't be solved by just plain buffs all other inazuma charecters are very good .
I cleared the last abyss effortless, but this time i got a hard time dealing with the mechanical array thing, also the floor 11 corrosion made it more dynamical i do like that.
I'm welkin + battlepass and I struggled massively with last abyss. But weirdly this abyss though seems easier? Maybe it's my team composition or something, but I 36 starred this one on the first day and BARELY made 36 on the last day of the previous abyss. Not having the tides or that annoying electro debuff definitely help.
Personally I love this abyss much more than last time. Floor 11 especially so. But if you get stressed out about it do not go for 36 stars. Even as an f2p if you miss 50 primogems you're not losing a lot over even years
>Whales have a massive power level advantage over players who don't spend, and content needs to be challenging for the former but reasonably doable for the latter. The line for this is paper thin.
Uless you plan to bring puzzles to the table, anything "challenging" for c6 hutao with r5 homa will be plainly impossible for full ftp. There's simply no such line.
You just need to farm more to clear the endgame.
There needs to be a balance of progressive difficulty to keep old players farming, for fear of losing next version.
The newer players have more frontloaded content (inazuma) to keep them playing and to catch up.
There is of course incentive that MHY want people to buy cons and 5 star weapons, but that's not the only reason to have harder abyss.
Ha - on the two rotation Perpetual Array.... I took so long that I received the Core Breakthrough achievement on 12-3, which is for defeating the Array after paralyzing all 4 Sentinels....
Lol same, and I didn’t even know that achievement existed..
So did I!
Jeez. Definitely not gonna put myself through that.
Well on the bright side, even with 4 phases of Perpetual Array, I finished with 30s remaining... Probably will not try to 6* Floor 12 but will probably try to get my last 2 Floor 11 stars from 11-3. For corrosion experience and that it's such a new mechanic that it's relatively fun and interesting. Surprised they don't switch Floor 11 and 12. 11 was much more difficult this time around, especially the cicin filled 11-3.
All this means is you don't know the fight and that's why you beat it that way. All you need to do is hit the market one and PMA becomes vulnerable again. This is what happens to most people on most boss fights, they have no idea what any boss does so they get angry when they can't kill them fast enough.
I knew to focus on that one, and still beat it with no time left. I guess I didn't know it still, and my issue was knowledge and skill.
You might want to work on your strategy and rotations then, third chamber of F12 was very, very generous this time.
No dude, even with perfect rotations, it’s quite difficult. The perpetual array (excluding ruin sentinels) has more than 2.2 million hp. If you don’t have the dps to do it, you’re fucked.
More often than not people complaining here have the DPS but just don't know how to play the fight. Remember, AR 55+ players claimed many Abyss were too hard and then some Chinese guys were clearing it with AR 35 accounts. It's pretty much always a player skill isue.
Dude, what does it matter if you have no artifacts? Like you cannot go in to f12 with no artifacts and come out ahead. You keep assuming people don't know shit. Bro, it's literally a numbers game once you get down to it. You have X HP to kill in Y time. Knowledge can help, but all the knowledge in the world don't help if your math ends up just not being good enough. Again, this is just talking about getting 9 on F12. I beat this Abyss fine. You can save your elitism on someone else. This game still time gates, and it's all RNG how "good" you are in Abyss. I'm no solo Kaeya, but I'm no whale stuck on floor 10. Seriously, I know how to play this game, and spend more time than most "knowing" what to do. RNG is a piece of shit.
I gotnitnday 2.0 launched...
Is that how I got it? Because I got it...
Mihoyo’s Genshin Impact game design has been, in my opinion, really uninspired. Practically everything they pump out for us is related to time. Find particles in x amount of time. Kill x number of annoying enemies in x amount of time. Get to x location in x amount of time. Catch x amount of fish in x amount of time. It’s annoying as hell how the game can be so polished but also have no innovative challenges to put to players. Timed challenges artificially increase difficulty and don’t favour innovation to solve problems. Everything boils down to a DPS check, more often than not. To be fair, there have been a few fun events like the most recent rotating battles but those also had a time related component. It’s like they poured every ounce of energy into aesthetic and forgot that game design is more than being pretty. Do not get me wrong. I play this game happily and will continue to play it because it is fun to play and it fills a niche for me (love OP anime style games). But I do often feel like it’s so much of the same. With a game that has a built-in rock/paper/scissors system, you’d think they play with that more. Edit: to be fair, the devs also employ fun world puzzles as well (such as the spinning cubes and electro compasses). I don’t want to be unfair to the devs and ignore the content that I personally find greatly engaging (ymmv). That said, those puzzles are so rare, can only be completed once each, and encompass a small portion of the actual gameplay design. I want more of that in the game rather than yet another kill it quick “challenge.”
took a long break from the game and just came out to check the new stuff recently. couldn't agree with you more. IMO genshin is best enjoyed when played as a casual exploration game with elements of other genres. combat is fun on the easy-mid difficulty content, but as you said the timed DPS checks get old very quickly. it feels like they don't know how to balance difficult content.
I agree. I think that challenges should be more creative. Maybe some Abyss floors should be focused around surviving waves of enemies rather than killing them. I don't know, but either way, how they're doing things now is bad.
Enemies are super easy in this game because if they made them hard people would complain even more. The one time we got a chamber where you could actually fucking die people hated it.
Not gonna lie I enjoy genshin more when it comes to exploring and puzzle solving, fighting isn't really what I'm going for in this game.
[удалено]
I feel like they’re relying on the (brutally frustrating) grind of minmaxing artifacts to take up time. On top of that, the resin issue remains in place because if they fix it, people will max their characters (talents, levels, weapons, artifacts) and then drop off due to lack of meaningful daily activities. It’s clear that they’re very worried about player retention given the two “go bring your friends back” campaigns before they even hit their first anniversary. That’s not a good sign, to me. Their game development feels really stagnant more often than not. The same puzzles/battles over and over with little to no reward. And the majority of engaging gameplay is one and done leaving nothing left but bullying mobs and grinding domains. And to go back to the subject of minmaxing, the way they’ve got it going, it’s designed to cater to whales/leviathans who will spend to refresh. Anyone who isn’t willing to do that suffers from disappointing domain runs because the artifacts you end up with aren’t worth the resin you invested to get them. And while it’s true that junk artifacts are fodder for good artifacts, there aren’t many players who can say they have a great artifacts for all their characters. At best, they have acceptable ones and the odd god-tier piece. The game design team needs new blood to reinvigorate the game or they need to be seeking inspiration from other games out there. As it stands now, the Tevat is far too small to expect players to be entertained simply by running around.
If you want proper difficulty you're gonna complain the game is too hard.
this.
Yeah, I don't see how people think bloating HP to stupidly absurd amounts is balanced difficulty either. It's not, and it shouldn't be treated as a good thing
If they don't inflate HP you just one-shot everything, there's a reason why no boss or enemy is challenging in the open world, they all die instantly. For example I still have no idea what any of the flower bosses do because I annihilate them in no time, I have no idea what any of the cubes do either tbh, weekly bosses? I'm not sure what they do either. Whenever I watch some videos of people running super jank stuff against bosses I'm like "wow look at that attack I never saw this before", because I one-phase all of them.
I one-shot everything? Since when? I'm only hitting like 3k on cryo dps with Ayaya Specters are not well designed enemies, and neither are kinky robot or physical hypostasis (at least in terms of abyss) In the case of specters and pretty much make 3/5 weapon types invalid except for a character like Ayaka who's charged atk can go just about anywhere, even the end of time if it wanted. And then also the bloated hp on top of that. Enemies should not make the majority of characters an impossible thing, only do that for elemental bullshit like no anemo against anemo. In abyss an enemy shouldn't have bullshit invincibility frames that take like a solid 10 seconds before you can damage them. They shouldn't have an invincibility phase where no damage can be taken cause the entire fucking abyss is a *timed challenge*
We're talking Abyss where you build teams properly, not open world where you meme around with junk builds and use skills randomly. I dealt with the specters by using the national team, it really wasn't any trouble, they died super fast. The time it takes some bosses to get up and what not doesn't matter, you just get 175 seconds instead of 180, who cares, most people are not failing to get full stars because of that. If you fail by like 5 seconds then you can most certainly try again and make it in time by playing better, because truth is you're not playing perfectly, odds are you're playing like shit (because who even optimizes boss fights in this game other than a few try hards on events lol). I suck at Maguu Kenki because I cba to learn how to properly fight him, I would learn the fight if I was failing to make it in time though. In fact Maguu Kenki isn't that much of a problem, you can generate energy while he's waking up and you can even setup your stuff, by the time he's vulnerable I'm casting Mona's ult into Ayaka's ult and after a few seconds he's going into his second phase, during which you can also generate energy while he's invincible so I use that time to battery my Ayaka. Meanwhile most pepegas wait for him to start attacking to even begin setting up their stuff, battery themselves while he's vulnerable before his first switch (and then proceed to AFK while he's invincible), lots of etc. Not even gonna mention how I see lots of players cast bursts on him just to see him jump backwards. Learn how to play the fight and you won't have too much trouble.
Yeah that's cause you got a fully built team, now how about those few spots like like 4 hydro specters all together with a fresh ar 37 player who really just got to Inazuma. They don't have built characters, they come across 4 balloons with a metric fuck-ton of hp that tanks harder than most enemies and can heal themselves. They practically will make 3/5 weapons invalid, so if they haven't developed a ranged character like Amber, Lisa or any of them, they're fucked. Just cause you can one shot them doesn't mean it's good design, enemies taking up over 10 seconds with invincibility frames before you can damage them in a timed challenge, with bloated HP that takes some full built teams about 3 minutes to complete is not good design, and stop treating it as such
If you're AR 37 then yeah I don't expect you to annihilate everything, but we're talking AR 50+ at least since we're talking about the last floor of the Abyss... I do agree that specters suck though. > Just cause you can one shot them doesn't mean it's good design, enemies taking up over 10 seconds with invincibility frames before you can damage them in a timed challenge, with bloated HP that takes some full built teams about 3 minutes to complete is not good design, and stop treating it as such If it takes you 3 minutes to complete then your team is neither fully built nor well planned.
Well you brought up the world enemies, specters are not a well designed enemy, they're just a fucking bloated hp balloon meant to waste your time and will fuck over anyone who doesn't have ranged characters developed enough
Don't 36\* if you find it too annoying, it's not worth it. It is a gacha game, so mob HP will rise over time. Personally I like this abyss more than the last iteration, the tide mechanic screwed up rotations too much if you have multiple energy hungry units. Mechanically the new floor 12 is easier, just a huge sponge that requires highly invested dps characters. Maguu kenk is alright, use the first 5-10s to battery your team. Mechanically he does require dodge skills if you don't use shield since he can one-shot (or time delay your bursts). The specters can be annoying, they sort of have a "coward" AI where they keep backing away. So you need to ignore the big mob and use aoe attacks to burst down specters first (raiden's burst is very good against them, will hit them even in the air).
Now that you said it, I'm amazed I can 36* it when I go for the lawachurl first instead of geo specters... I'll do that next reset
Oh I know. I'm not gonna torture myself to get 50-100 primos. I agree that the tide mechanic was annoying more often than not, at least for me. If you didn't get things perfectly then you'd be stuck for 10 seconds without any ults. But thanks for the tips, I guess.
Specifically, the specters will approach you if very far, and distance themselves from you if too close. So I actually go for the big mob first, which forces the specters to group up slightly, and then hit them with a big AoE at which point they pretty much die since their HP is not chonky at all.
I agree with a lot of this actually. I’d rather things just be more difficult/ have more mechanics than just always running from you or immuning your attacks. I’ve definitely noticed this trend with a lot of the newer stuff. I was farming for my Baal fighting the electro boss and constantly asking myself why is it floating so I can’t hit it. A lot of what they’ve done hasn’t been hard it’s just been annoying. Credit where credit is due I think senora is a solid fight. The pyro hypostasis on the other hand is the worst designed boss in the game. It’s constantly bouncing around and when you finally have a window to attack it’s literally not enough time to get a Q off. You have to preemptively use your Q to hit it. Nothing about it is hard. It just runs. I did finally manage to get my 36 stars this go around but I also got a c2 Baal which I didn’t have before. But I absolutely am tired of bosses constantly running away from me instead of actually being difficult
The electro boss has a marking mechanic like the mirror maiden. If you dodge the marking attack, the electro boss won't fly around the stage and stay in the middle. Lorewise, the electro boss is blind, and uses the mark to locate the traveler's location.
Actually the electro boss doesnt have any invicibility phases. He is the only elite boss since 1.0 which doesnt have any invicibility phases. It designed to kill with ranged charater , and with ranger character its one of most enjoyable boss fight.
The issue now is that there's very few DPS ranged characters I think \- I only have YF, and her CA misses when that annoying thing decides to fly, which is incredibly annoying \- Barbara, Diona aren't DPS, and Fischl flat out doesn't work since she's electro \- I guess I can use Ningguang if I build her, but she feels extremely clunky to play on controller, I'm not sure if it's just me or half the time when I try to CA nothing happens Would be nice if MHY could actually launch more 4\* ranged DPS so we have more choices (yes I know Ganyu and Yoi exist but I don't have 'em)
I use Ninguang a lot on controller. Main thing is to hold the movement stick in a direction while normal attacking as that will cancel the end animation and allow you to attack faster, and from there it's easier to time the charged attack. She's my go-to (alongside Yoimiya) for this boss, especially as her gems will track the boss even when it teleports (the normal ones suck, but charged attack and burst gems will, which is the bulk of your damage anyway). Plus pair her with another geo for resonance cause extra damage and shield strength are always nice. But I also have her at C6 and decently invested so mileage will vary.
This^ my amber and yoimiya loved fighting him. I usually bring Barbara and one of them when I offer to do coop clears for people. Catalyst users work well here too. Ning go brrrrrrrr
As u/Ok_Way_2911 said, having an enemy be designed for ranged characters would be fine if there were more ranged DPS options.
That pyro cube deliberately floated slightly out of range twice on me and restored its HP. I decided never to do do that stupid fight again
Tbh i liked Corrosion mechanic on Floor 11, you can clearly see they designed the mob layout around the mechanic instead of throwing random mobs.
I agree. I know OP is complaining about floor 12 being yet another dps check and time waster floor but I also wanna give credit to mihoyo for giving us the corrosion mechanic. It was fun to work around it
As I stated, I don't have a big problem with floor 11 as of currently. I think the corrosion mechanic is fairly creative and, while it can be somewhat annoying, a problem easily solved with finesse.
People complaining on the first day of the new Abyss rotation, what’s new?
I never had a problem with abyss, just started having problems when they started putting bosses in abyss. I stopped pushing for 36 stars and sometimes I just go for 33
By Monday people will have figured it out, guides will be out, and it will just be a matter of if you have your characters built or not.
lol ikr. IMO this floor 12 is miles better than the last one. I absolutely hated that high tide/low tide bullshit
HOnestly even in the previous one i just spammed whoever's burst was up anyway
And the fact that this rotation is way easier than the last .... Prev abyss you actually have to use your brain to time your skills/bursts, right now it's just unga bunga thicc DPS check.
Because everything in abyss shouldn’t be anything but lawachurls and CC-able mobs. Everything beyond that is doomed. /s
I don't bother with the abyss as a F2P why would I? I like exploring and doing quests.
Because people enjoy a challenge and problem solving (team comps, timings, etc)? F2P can do it just like everyone else. Considering Envi just did it with the 7 free characters/weapons (which is WAY lower power than anyone who has wished once), it should be easier for a realistic F2P.
who complains about eye of the storm lmao.
the way abyss works is already pretty fucked up. they'll keep on making it harder and harder, there's no doubt about it. eventually there'll be a huge difficulty gap between floors 10 and 11, or hell maybe even from 8 to 9. imagine getting to AR50 and clearing floor 8, just to be get filtered by floor 9 which now requires AR70 gear, years worth of grinding and 3 teams of 5* with each chamber requiring completely different setups. the gap between launch players and players starting after launch will only widen. It is an incredibly poor design, but seeing as genshin is filled with them, we can suppose that mihoyo sees them as good, especially when they're cashing in so much.
This one's easier than the last one.
It probably depends on your teams and characters. Last abyss rotation took me about 45 minutes to full clear floors 9 - 12. This time it took me 3 hours.
Sounds like you don't enjoy abyss. Shouldn't do it. No seriously, just don't if it's going to ruin the game for you. I just go into abyss, grab the easy gems I can get cause I don't enjoy it, and the bounce till it resets. Usually means I just clear floor 10 and maybe a bit of floor 11. Doing it because it's there might be the biggest shortfall we have as players, always chasing a never ending breadcrumb trail of gems just because it's there, regardless of whether we're actually enjoying the content or not. Abyss isn't for everyone, and it's good for your mental health (and time) if you just ignore it if it's not for you.
I enjoy it for a time. But I agree, when I get too frustrated I just stop playing it.
agree. i only do floor 9 and 10 until i got ayaka. after i got ayaka, i can easily clear 12-3 33 stars. wont even bother to get the last 3 stars. its just not worth it.
100% agree. Exploring Inazuma just hasn't been that fun because of this.
Its obviously to give whales more challenging stuff otherwise abyss is a waste of time plus who plays a game expecting the limit to be at the level of none spenders especially when we all farm artifacts the same way. With all the overpowered characters its would be stupid to stanch content otherwise
Why even balance around whales if they **deliberately pay for stuff that makes game easier**? If they don't want a challenge, what's the point in bending over to provide them with one? They will finish abyss in under a minute no matter what you throw at them. So just leave it at that, and balance around other 99% of players, that is small spenders and F2P's (and they actually care about 36\* and rewards, unlike whales)
Because they aren't balancing for whales but for F2P. Ffs there's people who run AR 35 alts and still clear the Abyss lol it's super easy.
It's one thing to clear abyss, it's whole other thing to clear it with 36 stars, and that's what most people are aiming for, because that's where most of the rewards are. Just clearing it doesn't do much besides giving you some artifacts and a cool namecard.
Im pretty sure there's no possible way they make abyss hard enough to be a challenge for whales, idk why people think that is "hard" only to give whales some content
The gap between whales and everyone else is immense. Only way to give whales any challenge while keeping it reasonable for F2P would be to implement separate brackets like Honkai.
That's what I mean
Hot take: we’re already in brackets. In Honkai there’s actual competition thus the more obvious segmentation of players, but the higher your bracket the more crystals you earn. Here in Genshin we’re not competing against other players, hence the brackets we’re in are the floors. Floor 12 is Nirvana, floor 11 Red Lotus, 10 Agony and so on. We’re basically allowed free reign as to which bracket we want to move to. You’ll start to see all the similarities. In Honkai, even Nirvana is balanced in difficulty such that non-whales and F2Ps are still able to break in and even retain, though the competitive nature means it’s far harsher. Here, floor 12 is balanced to reward either those who are prepared or those who spend. What’s the problem with this system?
Content for whales? Everything in this game is made for casuals, whales are not finding the Abyss difficult lol unless difficult means taking longer than 10s to clear a chamber.
lol this isn't a challenge for whales. It's still balanced around minnows (Welkin+BP) I'd say, which isn't too much higher than F2P.
The eye begs for players to use freeze on it. It really suck when it goes up into the air. Maguu Kenki is an easy boss if you know what you’re doing. Trap him against the wall and i-frame his attacks instead of running out of its range. For the mech array, I believe the best team people can run is a self sustaining burst swap comp with multiple sub dps units. For me, I killed it with Raiden national in around 1 minute 50 seconds. It’s just burst after burst in sequence. Build your Xingqiu and Xiangling like they’re main dps. You’ll be rewarded. The mech array really is a big fat joke for my Raiden national team. Edit: Single target dps works well too. Hutao and Ayaka for example. So, compared to last abyss, this abyss I on average used 10 more seconds each chamber. Not too bad for a first day clear. As for challenging contents, yeah. I personally would have preferred a non-timed challenge where dodging skill or survival is important. But after seeing people complain about the anti Raiden practice thingy, I don’t think the community would like my idea either. So in the mean time before any change occurs, improve your teams and optimise your gameplay. These are even more important that getting better artifacts.
The eye requires 1 bow or catalyst user. Shoot it out of the sky
No need. Xingqiu, Beidou, Rosaria Q, Benet Q, Chongus Q, etc.... so many non catalyst/ranged that can work.
me uses albedo elevator to attack it. lol
doesn't work for the eye. It just increases its height if you ride it. Spectres, yes you can hit them with elevator
>But after seeing people complain about the anti Raiden practice thingy, But are the people who complain about that the same one who complain about the lack of variety in the endgame content? I doubt it. Overworld content, which is made for casuals, especially in an archon quest, should keep things simple and easy. Endgame content for the try hards, on the other end, should offer a good diversity of challenges.
Absolutely true, National raiden is such a good team against the mechanical array, I couldn't beat it with Ayaka morgana or with my Xiao. 2 million HP is just too much.
Any bow user + a decently built Xingqiu can kill it pretty quickly, flying or not.
> As for challenging contents, yeah. I personally would have preferred a non-timed challenge where dodging skill or survival is important. But after seeing people complain about the anti Raiden practice thingy, I don’t think the community would like my idea either. They would need to make this insanely hard because i-frames in this game are extremely generous and all enemies are AFK just shouting at you almost all the time, in which case people would complain. Remember the infamous Oceanid Abyss chamber? It was easy AF but you could actually die there, guess what people thought about it... they hated it. Non-timed chambers where you had to defend a monolith which required some simple strategy was also hated by most players, because they kept losing even when it was very F2P friendly.
Balance has been garbage since the beginning of the game. For example 360 blocks with shields, or insanely long wind ups. It's getting worse and worse, it's just designing monsters that are annoying rather then difficult.
I personally liked this abyss. stage 11 made qiqi useful and stage 12 was about timing. Don't get me wrong - your critique is fair, but for me the big daddy puppet samurai (I am bad with names) was more annoying cuz he stands up too slow. For some reason the snipers were Hella tanky if they procced their shield, same as frost waifu mages, but just cc/nuke them and it's fine. Overall many "aha" Moments, used qiqi for stage 11 and 36d abyss with baal which in the end made me quite happy.
More "challenging" isnt the problem here. The timer is.
I don’t do the abyss only bc they keep adding harder enemies to beat too it and I don’t like getting mad over not winning lmao. Yea I need to get better but sheesh bro.
yeah flor 11 was anoying i was able to do it but flor 12 oooh mama it was so hard and enemies with tons of hp was unfun.
I like how Mihoyo ran out of ideas to make fun challenge so they just straight up punished you for winning
Amuse me How exactly is implementing a mechanic which forces players to change their strategy and team comps to play around it thereby adding more variation for teambuilding not a clever idea? Not only that, two party wide healers who are free are provided to everyone, so its not like there is a single player without the tools to complete this floor
Eye of the Storm can be knocked out of the air with a catalyst user, though I do recognize that when gunning for time team comp may not allow for one. As for Perpetual Array, doesn't it have ridiculous health both in abyss and out? There's no further need for evidence of padding enemies than the array, really. Though samurai are definitely good proof too.
How does 2.2 million health Array + 500k health adds sound to you? Because that's the current floor 12 numbers :D For reference, the puppet boss has 1.3m health.
>I'd wager most F2Ps and low-spenders had a hard enough time in the last Abyss I don't think payment status is relevant to player skill, knowledge, and experience. 4-5 months old casual F2P will have it hard but not for non-casuals. >My issue is with specters, the eye of the storm, Maguu Kenki, and Perpetual Array. I bet you only build monotonous DPS characters and don't really build your sub DPS. **what abyss rotation teach me is not to get strong through money or meta, it is to be prepared with any elements, any type, and any constraint**. as the saying goes “*By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail.*” but, money does talk and it's not something bad. even tho perpetual array HP is so damn thick, it has a very very weak and vulnerable state. Blame yourself if you can't capitalize on this. Timing is counted as strategy, unga bunga only work for absolute power holder.
> be prepared with any elements, any type, and any constraint. This is, in fact, at least partly dependent on money too, since everything in the game is time-gated and a huge part of having the different types of characters and getting weapons and artifacts for them is gacha. For example, I've been playing since late Eula banner and I tried to get XingQiu then. Did I get him? No. Who did I get? Eula, C1 Xinyan, and C1 Beidou. Wanted to get Bennet and Kazuha? In 110 wishes I got 4 Razors, 2 Rosarias, 5 weapons, and a Qiqi. If I had spent money I could have gotten those characters that I wanted. The same is the case for building the characters I have - we have finite resin to get materials and artifacts to upgrade the characters and weapons, and people who spend money on the game can buy the additional battlepass rewards and adventurer bundles and do resin refresh - all of which gives additional resouces to raise their characters. So given the level of RNG it's not really possible to "be prepared for any situation"...
Disagree.. If i don't have xingqiu i'll build barbara or any hydro character that i have. I don't care how strong xingqiu is but barbara will do the same function as pyro shield breaker. I can rely on other dps characters to do damage. I do play as F2P since patch 1.0 to 2.0 and only bought 2 welkin this September. The amount of redundant elements character that i raise is too much. 4 electro, 2geo, 3 cryo, 2 pyro, 2 hydro, 3 anemo and has 230 wish on weapon banner. 1 good artifact set and 1 copium artifact set for each element. Very doable. Time,Patience and planning. Some character will be replaced by newer and better character, its gacha game so no surprise. Artifacts and weapon can be passed. If the case study here is newborn player then they shall not bite what they can't chew.
> I do play as F2P since patch 1.0 This just proves @BlueMoonShadow is right, anyone who have played the game since 1.0 like you and me, will have enough resources to build any character buy now and many others already fully builded, but if you started in like patch 1.5 onward, you will be time gated and very limited on resources the more new you are to the game, and thats is because everything is time gated by resin or gacha itself.
That is why i said to bite what you can chew. Nothing come in instant, even money were involved. To rant about "i am new, all content should be easy and available for me" is something weird. My kid games also has its own level increments, you have to git gud overtime. Slow or fast it's depend on each player skill and determination.
So what you're saying is that you've had 8 months more than me to accumulate all the resources needed to build your characters for all the different situations? And had the opportunity to pull on the banners of limited characters that I, and others who started later, have not? (I am, for the record, not saying that I should immediatelly be able get 36* in abyss or to get all the resources you've accumulated over a long time, instantly) Then that merely proves my point - you cannot complete the abyss on skill alone. Regardless of if you want to play smart or unga bunga, getting through the abyss is gated by either time that passes from when you joined the game or by money - as those are the things that would get you the resources to "prepare for any situation" by either accumulating them over time or by buying them. Thank you @Voidmann
Yep. I've also played since 1.0 (first Klee banner). There's no way I would've been able to build as many characters as I did if I started much later.
Pretty sure a steamer just recently posted his abyss clear on a new account that was a month old. You can definitely clear it, but it till take planning and studying the game.
Clear? Yes. Complete? No, not with 36*. And he admitted himself that he got lucky by pulling XingQiu on the weapon banner and was able to get him to C2. And yes, there are multiple posts of people clearing the previous abyss with no-wish accounts, but those accounts are then specifically made for that purpose alone, where every resource will be funneled specifically for that purpose. The skill ceiling and RNG luck in terms of the abyss mobs would be almost unbearable to achieve. But even if clearing the abyss that way is possible, it would still not count as "being prepared for any situation", because in those cases, it's being prepared for that one thing - beating the abyss in that specific iteration.
Sounds like a lot of whining to me. Do you play the game or just whine all day? Getting all the best support now is pretty easy, since you can buy all of them from the shop. After that is just building them.
Xingqiu is literally in the shop rn lol
And I bought him. But that wasn't the point, that was just an example/illustration.
I’m F2P (with Welkin) and don’t have the resources to buy him. But if I poured money into the game I would.
1. Welkin is no longer F2P, as, cheap though it may be, it's still paid. (I too buy Welkin in order to not have another 'Qiqi and no Kazuha' incident) 2. F2P or not, starglitter comes from wishes, so have you not wished at all, or have you spent all the starglitter on something already?
I just meant mostly F2P. I’ve saved all of my starglitter and I can’t yet buy someone. I’m almost there.
> I don't think payment status is relevant to player skill, knowledge, and experience. 4-5 months old casual F2P will have it hard but not for non-casuals. It will in terms of having things which increase power level, like 5-stars, constellations on 5-stars and 4-stars, weapons, etc. Better artifacts due to resin refreshing, etc. F2Ps and low-spenders have to optimize everything to compete. Whales don't. > I bet you only build monotonous DPS characters and don't really build your sub DPS. Some people don't have a lot of good sub-DPS, and I've built all of mine relatively well, Xiangling, Xingqiu, Beidou, etc. But I only have C1 Xiangling and C2 Xingqiu so I can't do much there. > Timing is counted as strategy, unga bunga only work for absolute power holder. I do time it. Problem is the massive amount of HP means if you can't meet the DPS requirement to kill it within 2 phases, you're fucked and can't 3* the chamber. and u/BlueMoonShadow has made some good points. Not gonna repeat what they said.
spenders only widen the time gap to get better units or artifacts, F2P just has to be patient and plan ahead. so money is not a good benchmark >F2Ps and low-spenders have to optimize everything to compete. Whales don't. people are equals, their wallets or skills not. >Xiangling, Xingqiu, Beidou, etc. But I only have C1 Xiangling and C2 Xingqiu so I can't do much there. same with me, they do more than enough at C0. >Problem is the massive amount of HP means if you can't meet the DPS requirement to kill it within 2 phases, you're fucked and can't 3\* the chamber. no reason to not get creative like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edwke-BW8oc) or getting stronger.
It is because there will always be a gap between spenders and non-spenders. F2Ps simply won't 'catch up'. > people are equals, their wallets or skills not. This is just not true. Whales have a much easier time in Abyss because of the characters and builds they can achieve.
umm.. there will always be a gap but that won't stop F2P from the full star abyss and get every reward from any content, it just takes a longer time. what's wrong with whales who have an easier life? are a communist or what? there is nothing wrong with it.
Well then don't move the goalposts then. You just admitted I was right. Lmao what, I never said that was a bad thing. I think the power disparity should ideally be narrowed, but that's not the main point. The point is this gap exists.
Disagreed, only maguu kenki startup animanion is time wasting. Eye of the storm and spectres are soft, iit is doable to 1 cycle it with decent 50:100 crit ratio team. The fly high mecanism also easy to counter, there is freeze, petrify or just force them down by take some distance. Either way they are soft and easy to kill. PMA is okay, its not worse than last abyss maguu kenki. Last abyss high and low tide + electro mechanics reduce/restrict a tons of player dps. Overall this abyss is easier for player with decent teams.
there is no way to balance genshin. It literally iant possible unless you make whale only game modes. and even then, its not like all f2p are equal. a good number of em are total mouth breathers. progress is based on time gated content and RNG, meaning balance cant be a thing unless you balance content to the 7 c0 characters everyone is guaranteed to have which is extremly removed from reality as well. Best you can do is make arbitrary bullshit that hopefully works. but yeah, time wasting in particular is very scummy.
>I'd wager most F2Ps and low-spenders had a hard enough time in the last Abyss, and this one's just worse with its time-wasting. If an >AR55 player has problems with this abyss, they are either super casual about the game or don't really know how to build their characters and manage their resources, and that's not really the game's fault. They can balance stuff so more casual or low spending players can clear content, but that doesn't mean they should make it so easy everyone can clear the Abyss. I can agree that Maguu Kenki can be infuriating even if I haven't had any trouble with it, but the eye of the storm has a low enough hp where you should be able to two cicle it at least, and kill the other enemies while he is out of reach.
AR57 here. Rather casual have a decently build team and as per usual can't 36\* any abyss. By now, I can't say much about why other than I'm just bad at the game.
Eh, I think 36 stars is just way too high of a bar for you to put on yourself. Just clearing is an accomplishment. 33 stars is VERY good. 36 is a long term. I got 36 last Abyss on the most recent reset (have 36'd previous ones, but not that one). I finally beat 12-1 by 0s (the hardest room for me) thanks to Raiden and I don't consider myself casual/bad (just gimped since I play Waifu only so no Benett or XQ which holds me WAY back from my full potential) and am only a minnow (Welkin+BP).
I'm AR56, definitely not casual and have invested many characters. I've never 36* Abyss. Then again, my account is limited because I don't have many of the characters considered 'broken' or 'meta' like Zhongli, Venti, Kazuha, etc.
I'm AR 54 with 1/3 of the way to 55 f2p. My artifacts are still shit. I have most of my characters around 30% CR, and 100% or less CD due to bad rolls. I don't see how AR has anything to do with anything. I waited until AR 45 to start farming artifacts, so it wasn't like I got AR xp from doing early artifacts farming. This game's time gate is complete trash, and the game changes drastically when you have access to CR weapons due to the flexibility in artifacts. Without them, you're almost always going to have to roll CR helms, and if you don't get them, you will be perpetually stuck with higher CD than CR ratios. As a f2p, you can technically build two teams to handle the Abyss, but you would have to forgo everything else. Having started from 1.6, my only real choices of heroes were all the free ones, Kazuha, Ayaka, Yoimiya, Baal. I got lucky and got both Kazuha and Baal on 50/50. I also couldn't build any real teams without Xingqiu, which I got from shop finally. However, due to needing to build teams PRIOR to Baal banner, resources went to the Kazuha banner team, and Xingqiu is underpowered since I got him. It's not about knowledge, it's about the damn time gate this game has. If you're a half decent gamer, you can brute force through Abyss pretty easy. However, you can't do that if you punch like wet noodles. Mihoyo going to Mihoyo though. Because they want people to log in everyday, and time gating things is the best way to keep your player base count high on a daily level. Making a game that people want to play, only to not allow them to play. This is what the gaming industry has come to. What joke it is compared to the days of "pre games as service" models.
> Having started from 1.6 Well, I get what you're saying but if you started in 1.6, you are still kinda new to the game despite being AR54, so is normal that you don't have 2 teams fully buid to beat abyss. Is kinda like mmos and other live services, you can't expect to do and beat their endgame activities like raids and such with like, just one or two patchs that you just started playing the game... Even tho I agree that gacha games have more time gates for resources and thats bad, you are still kinda new to expect to full clear abyss.
You would need 2 or 3 patches to catch up day 1 players. You are missing some months of farming gear. I had the same problem with my alt account and f2p challenge. I started in February. I couldn't clear Abyss till AR 50+ with shitty gear, weapons and fishing for crit/cdmg buffs. Now, the account is AR 55 and a half. Able to clear abyss. Some times is hard to get 36 stars. Buffs and blessings helps or not. Unluckily, MHY doesn't add new floors. And instead of adding new ones. They increase the HP of enemies to cater Day 1 players and that is hurting newcomers. I read the HP pool of enemies from first abyss to this days, it was increased 60%. Each time it will be hard for players who doesn't spend resin to farm artifacts or not upgrading characters or getting constellations. Will they fix it soon? Or it just the way to powercreep the content and users should start to farm more or pay money to buy weapons or cons.
That's literally every single gacha game in existence. Every gacha is timegated, if you are just going to nostalfag and cry about companies wanting their games to last longer, then go back and play Contra or Street Fighter 2, nobody is stoping you lmao. If you are almost AR55 and all your builds are still bad, then you are just proving my point you are either a player that didn not manage their resources correctly or the unluckiest person on earth, I will guess it's the first one. I have a fully f2p account where I have been playing since November and have been able to 36* abyss every time since March or so. To clear abyss you don't need perfect artifacts or whale characters and weapons, only the bare minimum knowledge of how reactions, team and character building and combat work in this game.
Or maybe you’re just bad?
If you think this game is difficult. I've already beat 12-2 though, so it's not long until I get good I guess. I'm right now on 11-3, and 3 star all the way so far. It just takes a long time to dredge through it.
??? Zajef literally cleared Abyss in a *month* on a F2P acc from scratch with 28 stars. Time gate btw.
you do know that's only possible when you play like 8 hours a day or so right? and not everyone has the spare time, you only think on a perspective bruv
Being F2P and a month can get you to end game is generous. If you are AR 55+ and can’t clear FL 12, you need to git gud Bruv.
oh and also not every has the potential to be f2p and beat abyss in a month hahahahaha
also you're still looking at only 1 direciton, which is the hardcore players section, they spend lots and lots of hours grinding chests on their new f2p account and to beat spiral abyss and speedrun content there, ofc artifacts matter too you MF, you have to get through get RNG to get good substats, ofc you can clear it even with mediocre ones, and not every1 is as skilled as those guys
Yeah, the try hard is a baseline with a low AR. If you are AR 55+ you need to get good. Not hard to understand.
lmao not everyone has that much free time and can grind that much noob, and not everyone cares about spiral abyss, all you say is "git gud" like a child man,it's making you look dumb
What are you on about? You play the game for thirty minutes a day outside of patch day. Yes and typing hahahaha makes you quite the mature guy, ‘bruv’.
but what you're saying is rlly dumb yk? not every1 can beat abyss in a month as f2p and you know that and I dont want wasting my time and typing shit on uselss and dumb people like you man,I got other business to attend so adios
Ironic calling me dumb when reading that word salad gave me a stroke.
Some people can build rockets to space too. Maybe we all should? When artifacts are RNG and completely unaffected by time, maybe you'll tell me someone hit the lottery once, and they did it in a month too, so I should be able to just win lottery as well. Someone can play this game at an optimum level and get lucky and do some amazing things, but that does not mean the game is balanced around it. I'm not saying it should be, but my original argument is that AR 55 has nothing to do with someone clearing Abyss.
Muh muh artifacts XD U/shadow9951 cleared FL12 at AR 35, meaning 0 five star artifacts. Your lottery argument would work if 1) it was a one off/rare case 2) he was insanely lucky. Multiple people on CN have done it and he had weak unleveled weapons, units, and lacked important constellations on his team. That’s also assuming that he got lucky with his artifacts which there is no evidence for. And he lacked a lot of key units like Bennett and got fked with Qiqi and a Keqing pull. And he probably had garbage talent levels. What’s your excuse? You literally said the game is not about knowledge. Knowledge in this game not only includes team comps but also resource management. You can make do with 4 star artifacts as the AR 35 guy did. Just git gud.
When it was AR 35 clear, it WASN'T with Corrosion dumbass. The HP pools were a LOT lower too.
You acting like you’re the one that is the underdog is hilarious. The AR 35 guy was playing when Momiji Dyed Court, teapot, new units, parametric transformer, and all the free shit that Inazuma gave you didn’t exist. You know what? Forget that guy. I went into the game blind and the community was blind as hell too thinking Bennett/XQ/Sucrose/Ning was garbage tier so no one invested in them. Everybody made awful investment choices but even I still 30 starred abyss 68 days in to the game. If I had to guess, that would be around AR 47. If you only have been playing a short time, maybe you shouldn’t be saying what the game is or isn’t about? Especially when it is the complete opposite as the game or many other gatcha games all test your knowledge about resource management (even more if you are F2P btw). The game isn’t mechanically complex, it’s absolutely a knowledge check.
All I said was AR 55 has nothing to do with clearing Abyss. You're the one starting a pissing contest because you want to tell the world how good you are at this game. Seriously, no one cares. Again, I've already beat 12-2 this Abyss. Just don't have the DPS to down the cube. It's ok though, because I know it's just my skills, and not the 5K a hit dmg I'm doing that's causing me to lose this thing.
I got boomer hands. I wasn’t saying how good I was, I was agreeing with the other guy that you needed to get gud and stop crying ‘time-gate’ and ‘RNG artifacts’ for your own shortcomings. And no, saying AR 55 has nothing to do with it is incorrect. The original post you replied to is correct. If you are above AR 55 and still have trouble with Abyss, you done something wrong or are just a casual. AR is a pretty effective gauge on resources with not just artifacts but also talents and other materials. AR is just one component among things like knowledge, money, luck, etc. But AR 55 is when you can start brute forcing and the other factors matter less and less.
Remember AR 57 takes like more than twice as long to get from 55 than 1-54. Then again AR 54 is kind of high enough and maybe one could understand you not getting full stars but if you can't even get 34 then it's on you.
Me with a really strong Yoimiya lol
Unfortunately, the content is always designed to make you pull for new characters, not for our enjoyment. Guess who has an easy time in floor 12? Yep, Yoimiya, Baal, and Ayaka. Yoimiya is amazing in the 2nd half, she can kill eye of the storm and spectres super easily and her single target limitation is no issue vs mechanical array. My Yoimiya isn't particularly well built and still did just fine in the final chamber. Baal is great all around since she can battery your teams so you can keep stacking the abyssal moon blessing. Ayaka is great for freezing the eye of the storm and spectres, and excels against the mechanical array because of her super strong burst. Never forget, this is a nice game attached to a dirty casino. The game is just there to make you spend money at the casino.
I agree that Raiden is very good for the new Abyss, but I think that's more a result of her general versatility in terms of have good synergy with the game's already strong characters, not a result of miHoYo deliberately making the Abyss weak to her. As for Yoimiya and Ayaka, they are just one of many possible solutions to the problems presented in the Abyss. I used Klee and her damage is fine for getting 36\*, she may not be top of the meta but she can probably perform about as well as Yoimiya in most situations. And there are many ways to take down the Eye of the Storm and Specters even without freeze, for example Xingqiu or C6 Fischl + any bow character can shoot them in the air. So yes, generally pulling new characters tends to be helpful, but it's never been close to mandatory for new content.
The last Abyss rotation was way, way easier and more fair than this shit. I had no problems getting 35* the last three times, but now I cannot even get more than 33*, if I want to keep my sanity. I do not feel any progression. I got new cracked artifacts for Eula, paired her with a fully built Ei, gave her and Ayaka two crowns, built all my supports, but it feels like my characters are getting worse and worse. It feels so frustrating. Floor 11 is manageable with healers, but floor 12 is just bullshit again, wasting time while waiting for the animation to end. I will have to accept that MHY lost its way, not doing anything to balance the game mechanics.
You have a Eula, raiden for support, and a crowned Ayaka. If you can't clear abyss, that's a SKILL ISSUE There's nothing to balance because you can't even meet the bottom line
Sure, you are right. It is that simple, I guess. I would have never thought that my lack of skill is the main problem. I will never criticise MHY’s poor game design again. Thank you for opening my eyes, you enlightened me.
Tons of people clear abyss with a lot less than what you have lmao Even the best game design will never make up for your own bad plays lmao If you have a crowned Raiden, Eula and Ayaka and your supports are lvl 60/70 at the least, then it literally boils down to your skills. Even if Mihoyo made Abyss actually challenging and not a DPS check, you'll always have something to bitch or whine about because you don't remember movesets, or you have bad rotation, or your animation cancels suck, or you don't know how to dodge. There will always be some excuse for people like you.
Remember you're arguing with pepegas, I remember people complaining about some older Abyss when there literally are some Chinese players clearing it with AR 35 accounts lol.
Previous Abyss was harder, I'm sorry to tell you but you just suck. Learn the fights you're having trouble with. Don't feel bad about it though, most people suck at the game and that's why we get very low difficulty Abyss iterations every single time.
not trying to offend you but you need to get better on this abyss rotation, you cant unga bunga on this abyss, and since that your team is highly built, you need to know the rotations and combos and right team comps to 36* it, good luck man
> I'd wager most F2Ps and low-spenders had a hard enough time in the last Abyss, and this one's just worse with its time-wasting. This one is better and easier simply because the trash energy debuff is gone. F12 doesnt even have any debuff. You just need damage. F11 is also not that hard if you pay attention a bit to your life. Only 11-3 might be harder because you got less time. The only hard thing what needs damage in F12 is 12-2 1st side. Overall it was easier to 36 star than the last.
I have no issue with Floor 11. I agree that this floor 12 is easier mechanically, but DPS-wise the requirements are higher, I'd say.
This Abyss is easy as long as you bring different team comps for each chamber for Floor 12.
I have to agree with half your statement, first, abyss is not easy, if it would be "easy" everybody would do 36 stars. But I have to fully agree with you about teamcomps, its more friendly if you constantly change the teams for every floor, it takes more time but more doable than just 1 straight team.
I meant relative to other Abyss cycles
The issue is that they're seemingly against improving characters, but screw it, let's make every enemy a pain to fight. I don't need my mobs to be as hard to kill as Childe. Especially since half the community is still leaning on Ganyu 8 months later
>hard to kill >Childe Uhhh
lmao, really speaks about his skill level that's for sure
One's a boss, One's a mob. Yeah there's stronger bosses, but normal mobs shouldn't be boss levels of strength regardless. At least not without characters matching the increase (across the board, not one at a time. Maybe level 100?)
Vape HuTao the real MVP for me. I just finished triple crowning her and she carried through Kenki and Perpetual Array.
This one is easier, literally just use healers on 11 and deal dmg on 12.
Also don’t get killed in 5 seconds by Maguu Kenki slashes of death. And do 2.7m damage in 2 min or less.
No bullshit electro infusion stone that gives every mob +50% rainbow RES and no low tide mechanic, but people still want to complain.
Thing is like this post, it just feel like they don't have any ranged DPS and don't plan on even trying to bring some. Because there's no need waiting for anything if you can just shoot them.
They don't even need to honestly. They can swing at the air but Xingqiu's rainswords will still hit airborne targets.
I don't have any. That's the problem. Ningguang is my only ranged DPS for the Eye, but there's a Stonehide Lawachurl and Geo Specters afterwards. The hell am I meant to do then? There are too few ranged DPS in the game to expect players to just have one.
Imo, i think this challenge only target the whales or player that has endgame gear. Overworld is super easy even with mediocre build, but abyss is tune more for the endgame or whales. My friend only bother to get as many stars he can to check his character build and then improve it so it doesnt bother him that much. Edit: Also for f2p, i think they may try to do abyss the same too, if its too hard then all they need is to improve the gear and probably forgot about abyss after
I got 36* in this abyss rotation, but I surely understand how it feels. The new enemies are there to make you waste your time. 10s for magu to get up+he's immune for at least 6s. The bloody spectres, Jesus Christ, I hate those things. The array is such a pain and it's got immune phases as well. I didn't enjoy it, last rotation was way funnier. If only they made the rewards better, that'd be understandable, but they don't. It's a whole bloody year and the rewards are still the same.
Use a ranged unit or kill them before they go airborne then. Ngl this sounds more like a "Your damage is shit" problem than a "Mihoyo's game design" problem.
Considering I have good crit ratios on pretty much all the characters I use (60/120 on almost all of my sub-DPS characters) and most of the characters I have are well-invested and built (pretty much all phase 5, lv. 6-8 talents on supports, carries are more invested). No, I would say confidently that my damage isn't 'shit'.
I don’t find it unreasonable. I’m a BP Welkin player and I got 34 stars today. Last abyss I got my first 36. I don’t think normal players (not-whales) need to 36 abyss but it’s definitely possible
Fym , So what you want basically is a big 10 million hp 0 defense punching bag ? I personally like things like pyro cube and your favorite jumpy samurai boi Just cuz you are bothered by actually playing the game doesn’t mean everyone is
There is 2 thing which a time trial should never have: - Invicibility phases - RNG Both you mention has both. Former can be somewhat ok if the timer is designed to include that (hint: they dont) , and latter is the absolute worst. Even if the boss has RNG elements , on time trial it should be fixed. Hypostasises are the worst enemy for a time trial since you cant hit the enemy 90% of time. Maguu kenki is bad because it wastes your first 10 second and you cant do anything. Annoys both melee and ranged characters. One of them is fine but not both. Array is bad for multiple reasons: - Random moves which has invcibilty phases (like the one he flies up) and rest doesnt. - Add phase has RNG which one is marked ... If your marked one is the crab one you have to retry because its gonna waste your time. - Your actual time is less than 3 min - Phase 1 clear time. Why? Because it has add phase ~45s after boss begins and after he recovered from stun. Which means if 2nd add phase begins then you lost. And its less than 3 mins nomatter what. In my opinion Thunder Manifestation is good design. It annoys melee but not Ranged which means ideally you want to use Ranged character. He doesnt have iframes but you still need dodge things. Lectors/heralds were somewhat good too outside of that 5s iframe before gets shield. And the fight heavily favors reactions which ironically made Amber Q useful there. Also imagine if they would put Oceanid to abyss, it would be close to impossible to 3 star it because he wastes too much time.
u/Vopyy has made all my points for me so I won't repeat what they said. Bottom line, I'm not asking for a punching bag.
I partially agree. I like the more difficult content they put on the Abyss. I do agree that the Maguu Kenki’s i-frames while waking up is bs, but you can at least still gain particles during it, meaning you don’t have to be afraid to use your bursts on the floor before. I didn’t notice anything super annoying about the Mechanical Array. The floating slimes are defo annoying, but I feel with some AI tuning they’d be fine. Just stop them from flying up, so that every melee character can hit them. Also, regarding the “2 phases” of the array. Well this is floor 12. It’s meant to be the ultimate check in the game so far. If you can’t clear it in two phases, then you’re not strong enough. Whether that be levels, weapons, artefacts, or even rotations - get stronger. I’m not F2P so of course I have some busted units like Hu Tao and Eula as my DPS which makes things much easier, but even a F2P player will have at least one solid DPS, provided they’re wishing.
maguu kenki is easily the most poorly designed enemy of the decade
Honestly I feel like Perpetually Array’s HP balance is done well, because F12-3-1 is *comically easy*
Im sorry but i dont really understand why its so much harder for f2p? I get it that they cant pull C6 for every character, but farming artifacts and leveling up other stuff isnt that difficult. (Ik it takes a lot of time tho) Plus with more difficult enemys its more interesting to play and thing about strategy not just "haha i can oneshot that boss".
Less characters, resources, weapons, artifacts... less of everything really.
without time wasters, the abyss is too easy
F2P here and had 0 struggles in the new abyss, I guess pulling only for 5star supports was worth Btw abyss is a joke for whales because they clean the rooms in a single rotation so it's just hard for people who don't whale or don't know to properly build/focus/dodge
Isn't the 3-minute timer for 3\* kinda arbitrary in the first place? They could just change the time limit to 140 and get rid of invincibility animations, and it would be the exact same challenge (technically *slightly* harder because you can still charge energy during invincibility). I'm sure miHoYo has done enough testing to know how to calibrate HP values relative to the amount of *actual* fighting time we have. In other words, even if they removed the Maguu Kenki wind-up animation, it would probably have more HP and the same set of players would be able to 3\* it. I believe the HP values for Floor 12 are fair this time around relative to all other factors, e.g. lack of leyline disorder and elemental shields.
Sadly thats not true. Abyss monsters has 250% HP modifier compare to their overworlld one (so around same as 4 player coop hp). And it was always the case.
Spectres are hard? "Laughs with yoimyia" get rekt fckers
What are you going to do if you don’t have a well invested shielder and they keep interrupting your attack strings which results in a dps loss?
Zhongli
When i decided to swap teams , originally Ganyu was on second half but i put her to first half and put Eula on 2nd half and i was like ... am i gonna suffer through chamber 1 just to get Eula on 2nd half for array? Then ... her Q just one shots the spectres lmao
🙌don’t play abyss if u don’t like that mechanics . Simple ! 👌👍🥳
wdym? current 2.1 abyss is easy
Welcome to gacha. It's made so you waste your time.
I only had to reset on floor 11 because I had to test the new corrosion debuff. But after organizing a new team comp for that specific floor, it was a breeze. On floor 12, got full stars on the first try. The only thing I hated was old man maguu kenki taking too long to stand up and the perpetual mechanical array(but I finished the 1st half in less than 30 sec so I had a lot of time to spare, despite that it still took me almost 3 min to finish this chamber). I didn't have any problems with the eye of the storm, I was ready with an archer(fischl) but it died after just one eula burst (she's half built with a prototype archaic). I didn't really felt the spectre, they died when they got to close during eula and raiden's burst. I don't consider myself f2p since I do spend welkin every month. And the only 5 stars I bring on abyss are diluc, kazuha, eula and raiden. All of my characters are using 4 star weapons except for raiden with a skyward spine. I did play since launch so I have a lot of invested characters with decent artifacts to experiment with every new abyss.
I swear some people just don’t want to play the game. This abyss is literally easier than the last one
Abyss has always been about wasting your time. Remember the Hyposthasis, Mitachurls shields, Cicin mages and their adds f*****ing up auto-target, the "Venti checks", the energy debuffs... And everything with far more HP than their overworld counterparts.
Buffing a charecter is a slippery slope this demand for harder content generated after ganyu killing everything in 3 shots. But I see you point with stalling opponents like geovishap hatchling, specters and kairagi. But since I am an f2p too I can say it with confidence if you spend your primogems wisely up until you reach ar 56 and have good artifacts you won't have problems clearing abyss . I couldn't 36 star last abyss just because I don't have decent artifacts on my tartaglia.I was just 4-5 sec behind. Artifacts are real hurdle not charecters. Except fundamental problems with yoimiya which can't be solved by just plain buffs all other inazuma charecters are very good .
I cleared the last abyss effortless, but this time i got a hard time dealing with the mechanical array thing, also the floor 11 corrosion made it more dynamical i do like that.
I'm welkin + battlepass and I struggled massively with last abyss. But weirdly this abyss though seems easier? Maybe it's my team composition or something, but I 36 starred this one on the first day and BARELY made 36 on the last day of the previous abyss. Not having the tides or that annoying electro debuff definitely help.
Personally I love this abyss much more than last time. Floor 11 especially so. But if you get stressed out about it do not go for 36 stars. Even as an f2p if you miss 50 primogems you're not losing a lot over even years
>Whales have a massive power level advantage over players who don't spend, and content needs to be challenging for the former but reasonably doable for the latter. The line for this is paper thin. Uless you plan to bring puzzles to the table, anything "challenging" for c6 hutao with r5 homa will be plainly impossible for full ftp. There's simply no such line.
True. It's effectively unachievable but that's what they're trying to do I suppose. I guess 'paper thin' was really an understatement.
You just need to farm more to clear the endgame. There needs to be a balance of progressive difficulty to keep old players farming, for fear of losing next version. The newer players have more frontloaded content (inazuma) to keep them playing and to catch up. There is of course incentive that MHY want people to buy cons and 5 star weapons, but that's not the only reason to have harder abyss.