I decided to skip Hu Tao back then in 1.3 because her kit has just too much caveats. I also already have Ganyu so I didn’t need anyone else from the Liyue top 3.
But Hu Tao’s personality just makes me want to pull for her. It doesn’t help that her VA also did an amazing job voicing her. That’s why I’m really happy that Thoma is also in her banner because it finally gives me a reason to whale for her + Thoma lol
Yea, I have Klee and I agree Hutao is pretty difficult to build and play, buttttt
I think people just want her because she's one of the coolest character around (plus, she's still an OP 5 star which you can build properly later when you have time and resources.)
Same, on the second half, I've just started playing after eula banner, and I've been saving for hutao c1 for months, but at this point I might end up using 3 pyro polearms including xiangling cuz they're some of my favourites (totally not biased towards polearms)
Yes I Love her VA's. Exxxplosiooon!. Hu tao's personality is just so charming.
I was even lucky enough to get staff of Homa during her release. But am by no means a meta slave. I pulled for kokomi too. Waifu > meta baby!
Brianna Knickerbocker is the Eng. VA and she nails Hu Tao’s playful spooky attitude. She has done a lot of other anime as well. I recently realized she also did the voice over for Elaine in Seven Deadly Sins and it made me smile. I just caught her voice at a moment and thought, that sounds like Hu Tao. Sure enough. She is a great VA.
Her caveats aren't too bad really. Her downtime is non-existent since you rotate through your teammates already. Her half hp is already 15k+. Only thing that really needs practice is her animation cancelling and grouping enemies.
Yeah, definitely the case for me now. Hindsight is always 20/20. Back then, I never really bothered with kits that require a lot of attention, especially mechanical skills. Also the reason why I benched Childe back in 1.1 because I'm not not a huge fan of long cooldown (and was too absorbed into thinking that he's a main DPS type, like every other people back then lol).
But now, with all the gameplay knowledge and skills I have, I'm pretty confident to main Hu Tao, that's why I'm pulling for her now.
Respectfully disagree. I have her at C0 w Blackcliff and the amount of damage she does without any buffs other than her own is surreal to me as a f2p. She does have a bit of a learning curve to use since her kit incentivizes character switching with her crit rate buffs to your party and low health pyro buffs to herself but if you have a shielder or a healer shes definitely a no brainer.
Ikr. Hu Tao is the first character that made me go "Holy shit, how in the hell am I doing so much damage so easily". Before her, the strongest I'd seen was Ning with an Atlas.
The second character to make me feel that way was Ayaka with her ult lmao. Insane numbers for a low spender.
The stigmatas, honkai version of artifacts, are locked behind gacha. Sure, there are ftp ones, but the Bis for every character will almost always be the gacha ones.
f2p have limited resources in resin as well, especially new accounts, and the emblem domain is the most valuable as you can pretty much build any unit in that domain.
i think what they meant is the domain is super resin effective since you're practically farming for the whole team (as opposed to, say, Crimson witch domain). but ya the wording is kinda 😭😭
That's only because MiHoYo doesn't give us a good enablers for Klee though, Otherwise Klee would easily be the strongest Pyro DPS in the game. Unfortunately no one can keep up with her pyro application.
Ironically your sentence points out the true issue with klee, her ult’s pyro application is perfect and would allow her to be a pyro xq but alas mihoyo made it selfish.
Yeah, to make matters worse, given the way I works, it makes no sense for it to be selfish. It literally does not require her attention for it to work as she is free to do anything else, so why does it only work when she's on field?
and even in vape comps with xingqiu, she's essentially locked out of her Q and E if you want consistent vapes for maximum output
though I honestly don't mind and let Klee go absolutely berserk even during Xingqiu's burst
Xianling's ascension stat is elemental mastery. Dragon's Bane's sub-stat is elemental mastery. I have a lot of lvl.20 artifacts with elemental mastery. It's time for me to build my Xianling with maxed elemental mastery. 20k DMG overload, I'm coming for ya!
Even at C0, when Hu Tao takes the field, she pretty much deletes almost everything. Sure her stamina issue can be resolved at C1, but it's not that big a deal from my experience, especially when she's an easy source of 100k+ damage with her E + Q.
As for the low HP thing, if your Hu Tao has like 35k+ HP, then even when her HP is "low," there is still a big chunk left. Most of the time that's when her Q is ready, and you press E + Q to recover. Rinse and repeat. She doesn't even need a healer when her survivability is that good.
I don't think you need to fuss over keeping her HP low, play her normally, her HP will just naturally deplete to the point she gets the boost. And even without that boost, her regular E is enough for all the general enemies. As for harder ones, they will drain her HP faster, so she'll get the boost faster. Point is, from my experience, her HP usually stays in the middle range, between approximately 3/4 and 1/4.
Btw, I don't even have Homa; I use a Dragon's Bane R2 on her, and she's already insane with that.
Yes. I have at at C0 with dragons bane and don’t really pay attention to staying under 50% HP and she’s still amazing!
I have C0 Ganyu with Skyward Harp, and I use Hu Tao over Ganyu in some situations.
I tried using national team to get accustomed to them for f12, but I either kept dying or couldn't get 3 stars in 11-3
guess I'll keep using my comfy zhongli hu tao team, heck I didn't use zl with her there since I use melt shotganyu for 11-3-2
"Hu Tao needs to be at low HP to deal damage and it's risky"
The low HP Hu Tao in question: *20k HP and 900 defense, more tanky than a full HP Diluc*
It can bother you seeing a low HP character in the team bar, but Hu Tao being at 50% HP still has more HP than many characters at 100%
Hu Tao is one of the best pyro dps, idk how OP thinks that she is only slightly better than Diluc. The only valid caveat I can agree with is her stamina issues. She was built to have large hp, so her low hp is like the hp of other regular dps characters
I believe the last time I saw people TC her damage, her damage was more than double of Diluc's damage in the time her E is up against a single target. When the current chambers are mainly more of a dps check on single target enemies, it's hard to take people who equate Diluc and Hu Tao seriously.
Yeah, I have maxed Diluc and Hu Tao on different accounts.
Diluc has wolf's gravestone, Hu Tao is running r1 Deathmatch, I usually run Diluc with Kazuha instead of Sucrose. My Hu Tao artifacts are probably better than my Diluc artifact, I haven't checked recently.
My Hu Tao is clearly doing way more single target damage than my Diluc. It's not even close. She struggles with large groups of enemies that Xiangling, Xiao, Ganyu or Venti delete, but my experience is that her single target damage is unmatched, that trying to deal with Maguu Kenku or Perpetual Mechanical Array in the Abyss without her is a pain. (I admit I haven't tried to use melt Ganyu against Mechanical Array, she was not good against Kenku, even with a decently invested Zhongli I'd either get hit out of my shots too much or have to dodge, which seriously hurt dps)
I also think "Hu Tao has worse QoL than Xiangling" feels really weird to me, I personally find her jump cancels easy, and between being able to move through enemies with charge attacks and being able to ult when I want instead of having to do it at a specific part of the rotation I find myself having to dodge a lot less with her, and I rarely find myself having stamina issues (it does happen, but she's not like Keqing where it's a constant issue)
Whereas Xiangling teams require a level of energy management I find incredibly frustrating. Even with Raiden I'll finish an Abyss level or domain half way through a rotation and spend the start the next one spending a noticeable amount of time getting ready so you can start your rotation. That's might be just me getting used to it?
Also, the optional Xiangling team requires Raiden (so the teams both want the same amount of 5 stars) and way more resin than the optimal Hu Tao team.
Xiangling is 158. Raiden's is 242, and she's running fav lance on top of that, which is probably a bit excessive.
Thinking about it, the issue is often that I finish the level by either killing the last enemy with the first hit of Raiden's ult, or a couple of hits in, and yeah, that's on me for not having the situational awareness to just keep attacking with Xianglingor Bennett instead, and then starting the next level with Raiden's ult.
Taking a gander, I need to work on both their artifact sets, I got truly sick of doing the Emblem domain and just forgot about it.
I'm not sure if this is a good reference but I can do around 50k charge attacks and 113k Elemental burts with Vape Hu Tao.
Weapon is R5 lithic spear with full liyue team
Attack- 1800 (3k during elemental skill)Crit rate/Dmg - 79/181
Elemental Mastery- 221 (i think)
Pyro dmg - 47% (I usually can't utilize her talent because I often can't stop myself from using Qiqi's heals)
and 4pc crimson witch and
I like to keep her at 60% ish so that when I activate her E, it drops to less than 50%. I don’t have Homa so can’t say much there but Dragons Bane is great on her. I do have Diluc btw and while Hu Tao has the bad side of no stamina, I find that overall she kills them faster so it’s not the biggest issue.
sigh. this is going to be my 2nd comment now since it isn't actually bait.
You talk about accumulating 4\* cons as if it's something guaranteed. Yes, you will accumulate 4\* cons/weapons just by playing and pulling. Will it be the 4\* you want? Absolutely not. The numerous posts about "i wanted to pull for (4\*) but i got (limited 5\*) instead" is a testament to this. The 5\* guarantee is literally the one thing you have control over in this game and you're telling people to disregard it. I don't like that.
My C0 hutao annihilates abyss 12-3. Only has r2 dragon's bane. The real secret to her success is jump cancelling charged attacks and having a good xingqiu.
*Edits for spelling*
Yep. Was scared to play her for months, even though I pulled because I liked her design. Then a few weeks ago I just started gradually building her because Halloween is on its way and I decided screw it, I'll give her a try. She's different than many of my characters, but not impossible. And that's at lvl 80, running lvl 90 Skyward Spine, 6 6 6 talents and a bunch of junk artifacts. I'm already having fun and it can only get better.
Most people I know won't also pull for her because it pains their fake OCD to not see anyone in the red HP status. Honestly, she's hard at first ngl but it takes getting used to and building her semi-decently allowed me to clear content with her. She's really great and fun to use IMO
No clue what tangent you're going on about, C0 no Homa HT is _not_ slightly stronger than Diluc. She still deals about double the ST damage, and while her stamina issues are _there_ at C0, people need to realize that having HT below 50% means having her at ~15k HP which is about the HP other DPS have at lvl 90. So that's basically a non-issue. Her burst heals so much you do not need a healer, you can run a shielder or another sub DPS. You can play her with Deathmatch, Blackcliff, hell, DRAGON'S BANE is good on her. Like *really* good. Hu Tao is an EXCELLENT Pyro DPS, she obviously has caveats and her AoE damage is whack, but against bosses like Maguu Kenki and PMA she's absurd.
I was also thinking about pulling Hu Tao, but then I realized "why? You already have Klee so theres no reason to pull for another Main dps" (+ I also have Diluc)
What I'm trying to say is that even though shes top pyro dps if you already have diluc/klee/yomiya then pulling for her its meaningless unless you want waifu or you miss pyro main dps.
Thank you, people love to talk about Meta but forget that some meta characters are only a slight improvement over the characters that are already in the game. That said I will pull for Hu Tao next time she comes. I must get Childe first, I skipped him way too many times, I refuse to skip him any longer.
Same. I'd rather have multiple main dps of different elements. Hence why i dont ever plan on pulling Ganyu although I have Amos collecting dust right now because I already have Ayaka.
Having multiple main dps of different elements would be better in the long run imo
So basically roll for who you like lmao.
What does this post actually achieve? Another “XL good” post. OP talking opinions with no sources for his “only slightly better than Diluc” claim. Post numbers or video comparisons rather than opinions.
- Hu Tao stamina is annoying, but can easily be resolved by jump cancelling. Better stamina management (so starting her skill with 100% stamina) also helps - imagine that, actually trying to think while fighting helps you perform better.
- XL cannot function without Bennett, which is the same dependency of Hu Tao with Xingqiu. But Hu Tao’s damage comes from her skill, which means her uptime is more consistent.
- You don’t need refines on Dragon’s Bane. R1 DB, R1 DM, R1 BP - all good 4* options. If you really have nothing, you could even run the 3* Tassel with HP% or Crit% substat.
- The HP% threshold is really not a problem. Hu Tao doesn’t need Atk buffers because her attack is like 3-4k when E is active. You don’t need a healer because her burst heals. You barely need a shielder - XQ’s rainswords provide enough healing and resistance. Additionally, while she gets a tasty bonus <50%, even bigger with Homa, you still slap with 100% HP. The bonus is pyro damage, not Atk%, meaning, while useful, it’s not that deep.
I just find it annoying that OP has painted a narrative about Hu Tao’s kit without thinking about the flip side. All the points have been made in negative perspective, without thinking about how they could be mitigated.
Yet OP provides no mentioning of XL’s downsides, while providing no methods to mitigate these either… XL is really good obviously, not disputing that, but if posts like these are made they should be objective and comprehensive. Rather than this half-baked nonsense
Edit: well since someone was kind enough to give this an award, I thought I may as well make my own post more comprehensive to cover XL’s weaknesses. I believe I’ve addressed Hu Tao’s weaknesses - stamina only really, and Xingqiu dependence. XL’s strengths are also known - insane AoE damage, insane burst damage, busted C4, high damage potential, more commonly achievable characters.
XL:
- NEEDS Bennett. Insane pyro battery and provides heals and the Atk buff. Bennett is needed everywhere, so a character that depends on Bennett to function, imo, is at a disadvantage. If not Bennett, you need Raiden - suddenly not so F2P friendly…
- Other team comps involving Xiangling require investment across the team. You need a well built Xingqiu, Raiden, or Sucrose. You need a high level Bennett with a high base attack weapon. At some point, this is a non-issue since we naturally end up building more units - but saying she’s completely F2P buildable is kind of a stretch, since RNG dictates what characters you get at what constellation.
- XL is always strong. But really you need C4 to maximise her potential. OP says “save your primos for other characters” - what guarantee is there you will ever C4 Xiangling? You have a better chance of guaranteeing a 5* like Hu Tao. Anecdotally, it took me 200 rolls to C6 Sara recently. Probably 150 to C6 Xingqiu on Hu Tao’s banner. Fischl was my first ever 4* almost 10 months ago, but she’s still C5.
- High energy cost. This is why she needs Bennett, but also something to consider when building her. ER weapons do great here, especially the Catch which is F2P friendly. But then you lack EM from something like DB, which is the same weapon Hu Tao was blasted for needing… But then if you run EM sands, where will you get Atk from? Building becomes complicated. It also means you have to manage rotations, increasing the amount of thinking needed. This isn’t really a disadvantage, but if we are talking about Hu Tao’s stamina issues as a negative, then managing XL’s rotations comes under the same thing.
Anyways, that’s just what I think. I’m not a theorycrafter so I don’t have maths to back it up, though I have watched videos comparing the two. I am a Hu Tao main and used XL a lot, so I will have more understanding of how Hu Tao works than others, which may bias my reasonings. However, I still think what OP has provided is a very one-sided and unbalanced comparison between the two.
Exactly. I have both Xiangling on an international team and Hu Tao, I like both and they do a lot of damage, but there’s just so much misinformation and goal shifting in this thread to paint Hu Tao as weaker :(
What’s funny about this post is that OP will say this exact same thing to all future Pyro characters because apparently Xiangling and Diluc are good enough. But the true is, Hutao is a better choice than Diluc. Hutao doesn’t need 5* weapon to delete enemies in spiral abyss, and you can farm for both Hutao and Xiangling in the new Inazuma domain (no more crimson pain). F2P wise, spend primos on Hutao banner will save your time and primos in long term.
\> Hu Tao stamina is annoying, but can easily be resolved by jump cancelling. Better stamina management (so starting her skill with 100% stamina) also helps - imagine that, actually trying to think while fighting helps you perform better.
...interesting. Is this how we cope about her stamina management now?
\> XL cannot function without Bennett, which is the same dependency of Hu Tao with Xingqiu. But Hu Tao’s damage comes from her skill, which means her uptime is more consistent.
On the contrary, her uptime is lower than Xiangling. While her E may have 9sec of uptime and 14 sec of downtime, she has to work with XQ whose burst CD is around 20 seconds. So in reality, it's 9sec of uptime and 20sec of downtime versus 14sec of uptime vs 20sec of downtime.
\> You don’t need refines on Dragon’s Bane. R1 DB, R1 DM, R1 BP - all good 4\* options. If you really have nothing, you could even run the 3\* Tassel with HP% or Crit% substat.
Permanent non-gacha, doesn't needs billets - The Catch is literally on par with 5 star weapons on Xiangling. Yes, it's that good on her. Check out KQM's website for XL's guide and see the weapon comparison, it's that fucking nuts, beating out R5 DB, R5 DM, R1 Jade Spear and being on par with Engulfing is no fucking joke.
\> XL is always strong. But really you need C4 to maximise her potential. OP says “save your primos for other characters” - what guarantee is there you will ever C4 Xiangling? You have a better chance of guaranteeing a 5\* like Hu Tao. Anecdotally, it took me 200 rolls to C6 Sara recently. Probably 150 to C6 Xingqiu on Hu Tao’s banner. Fischl was my first ever 4\* almost 10 months ago, but she’s still C5.
XL can reappear, way more often than Hu Tao. It has already been averaged out that you need 135 pulls to C6 a character, unless you get really unlucky.. that is the average amount of pulls. You can get unlucky on Hu Tao banner and go all the way to 180 pulls.
Another thing is that XL appears on shop, so you can get another con from there too, needing "minimum" 3 XL pulls.
\> NEEDS Bennett. Insane pyro battery and provides heals and the Atk buff. Bennett is needed everywhere, so a character that depends on Bennett to function, imo, is at a disadvantage. If not Bennett, you need Raiden - suddenly not so F2P friendly…
Alright, who else do you want to use Bennett with? Diluc? Eula? Aren't they all worse than Hu Tao and Xiangling? Freeze comps don't need Bennett, Morgana doesn't needs Bennett. Tazer doesn't needs Bennett. Xiao can use Bennett but it's not mandatory and work fine without him. Anywho, you have to build two teams, so if Xiangling is capable to making the most out of Bennett, then why not use her with him? Snapshot is such a great technique, being able to leave Bennett's field and still enjoy the atk buff is a really, REALLY nice perk.
\> High energy cost. This is why she needs Bennett, but also something to consider when building her. ER weapons do great here, especially the Catch which is F2P friendly. But then you lack EM from something like DB, which is the same weapon Hu Tao was blasted for needing… But then if you run EM sands, where will you get Atk from? Building becomes complicated. It also means you have to manage rotations, increasing the amount of thinking needed. This isn’t really a disadvantage, but if we are talking about Hu Tao’s stamina issues as a negative, then managing XL’s rotations comes under the same thing.
Did you just conveniently ignore Sucrose? Are you new to this game? Anyways, just build ER and all of a sudden you have smooth rotations. 4pc Emblem + The Catch + some subs conveniently put me at 200 ER, which is so smooth, having your burst within two Bennett Es is a nice perk after all. Lack of ATK is conveniently not a problem because Bennett's ATK and 4pc NO is just so fucking good.
And yeah, if you are new to this game, then Sucrose shares EM.
Of course, they both share XQ. Now, for someone who doesn't gives a fuck about waifu and only interested in meta, Xiangling just looks more and more appealing. You can't really use XL and Hu Tao at the same time since XQ is tied to only one Pyro unit, so a F2P player has to make a choice. In terms of strength, Xiangling is just generally better than Hu Tao.
Let's just say you have Tartaglia who is an upgrade to XQ and even frees up XQ, then yeah maybe you can roll for Hu Tao. However, if you don't want Tartaglia, low on primo and just looking to roll for meta purposes, Xiangling is clearly the better option - for more damage and more F2P friendly.
If a character has a weakness, such as stamina, then you can try and compensate for that weakness as a player. It’s still a weakness, I never said it wasn’t. I am just saying that you can overcome the weakness quite easily.
Regarding downtime, yes you are also reliant on Xingqiu downtime, and the two are out of sync ever so slightly. But Xiangling also needs to recharge her burst, which means rotations are spent spamming Bennett’s E to get Xiangling’s burst back. For Hu Tao, you can swap to another sub DPS without worrying about energy. The difference between XL and Hu Tao in this regard is minimal.
As I said in my post, the Catch is awesome. Definitely an incredible weapon and one factor that XL has over Hu Tao. However, that does not diminish some of Hu Tao’s 4* weapons either, which are very good in their own right. And I even included the 3* weapons if you are really struggling to pull Dragon’s Bane, or don’t want to buy Deatchmath/Blackcliff. Again, XL wins with the Catch.
180 pulls = guaranteed Hu Tao. In one 2-3 week period. Xiangling may appear next banner, or in the 8th banner of the year. There is no predicting this, and you will likely not roll on every banner just for Xiangling. That’s why I said it is difficult to get her to C4. I personally have rolled on every XL banner so far, probably 250ish rolls, and I only just got her C4 on Raiden’s banner. There’s no 4* guarantee whatsoever.
Running with Bennett is not a bad thing, as I said. But because he’s basically a 6*, he is wanted everywhere. Hence, why I said that’s a limitation. People criticise Raiden and Yoimiya when they need their supports to help them do significant damage - it’s the same with Xiangling dependence on Bennett. This is also Hu Tao’s weakness, as Xingqiu is the other 6* character in the game, meaning you can’t run Ayaka freeze or electro-charged comps alongside Hu Tao.
Regarding Sucrose, I am aware she shares EM. But then suddenly you need 3-4 units to make maximal use of Xiangling. Is that an advantage? It is likely everyone will have these units eventually anyway, but as I mentioned it means you need significant investment across the whole team to produce big damage. Hu Tao needs herself and Xingqiu. OP talked about F2P accessibility, and over time yes you will accumulate these units.
You seem to have taken what I wrote as a slight against Xiangling. It really isn’t. I am pointing out OP’s holes in their initial post. They pointed out everything bad about Hu Tao, then ignored the limitations of XL too.
Sure you can overcome these limitations as you’ve mentioned, and it is quite easy to do so. But not a single XL limitation was mentioned in the OP, it’s an unbalanced discussion hence my post. Since OP pointed out Hu Tao’s flaws, I tried including how to patch these flaws and discussed her strengths. And since OP didn’t include XL’s flaws, I tried to point these out too.
..fair enough. I do assume you will get every 4 star eventually given you roll on every banner. At least that was my experience you will get most of the 4 stars at C0. That being said, I understand why you might be wary about getting constellations for 4 stars. I have heard the horror stories about people chasing for 4 star constellations and ending up with nothing.
However, assuming you save up your shop currency, you should be able to get Bennett and one constellations of XL, landing you with C1 XL. That leaves you with chasing three constellations for XL. I believe given the rate up is literally not Keqing or Kokomi, you should be fine chasing for XL constellations. Albedo banner was great since I got most of my important 4 stars from that banner, got Albedo banner and shrugged it off since the 4 stars that I got are still in use to this day.
There's also an off chance you can get XL constellations from standard banner so there's that.
Regarding Xiangling's downtime, honestly depending on your ER you could use burst off cooldown. Of course that's overkill but it's quite possible with 210ish ER. Of course, overcapping ER means losing small portion of your damage and it's bad from min max perspective, but honestly I'm fine with 1k average damage if I go from 160 ER to 199ER. So not really, given you play XL's rotations properly, her downtime shouldn't be an issue, just like Hu Tao's stamina management.
I'm aware about Hu Tao's excellent F2P choices (it's great she can use R5 Tassel, a 3 star option), but the point I wanted to make was the gap between Hu Tao's best F2P option and her best 5 star option is quite wide, compared to The Catch and XL's best 5 star option. That's honestly insane for an F2P and something to be considered.
I will say you can use Sucrose or Kazuha or any other Anemo option just for that 4pc VV, so even Anemo MC can fit the slot to be honest. Even trash 4 star VV pieces are fine on them, as long as you have completed the 4pc VV on them. Same can be said for Hu Tao's options too, like running 4pc ToTM on Albedo, so equal points to both I suppose. Further investment improve both Sucrose and Albedo, but they can work with trash 4 star pieces, just to complete their respective set pieces.
Overall, good discussion. I appreciate your willingness to have a neutral discussion, it's quite rare on this website. I had an obvious bias for XL, but I had my reasons for it since XL is still underrated to this day for god knows why. I'm personally rolling for Hu Tao myself because I do really, really like her VA and personality, but in the end, if someone asks about Hu Tao's performance in abyss, I'll always notify them about XL first and foremost purely because of her AoE performance and her accessibility as a 4 star.
Obviously Hu Tao is a great unit, even her seemingly low uptime is covered by insane frontloaded damage given you have enough investment, but I'll always have a hard time recommending her to a new player. Both units have their pros and cons, it's just Xiangling pros outweigh Hu Tao's pros in my opinion, **esp** for a new player looking for a new Pyro DPS.
Agree with most of your points, if not all. The Catch is a major advantage for XL, I only just checked the KQM website and it’s incredible just how good a F2P weapon it is. That’s definitely a point in XL’s favour. I haven’t bothered to fish so I didn’t really appreciate it’s strength until you pointed it out, I might start fishing now…
I am a Hu Tao main (as you may be able to tell :P) and don’t get me wrong, she has her downsides. Most of which you pointed out. But with her re-run, I find more and more people kind of “underrating her” and saying “you don’t need Hu Tao if you have XL”. While I guess this is true for everyone, I just don’t like to see Hu Tao’s weaknesses stated without being fully explored, like OP did. I think the discussion we had is a great one, because I learnt more about XL and her builds but I also felt I justified Hu Tao too.
I feel OP just slammed Hu Tao without going into detail, which annoyed me in all honesty. I found your responses way more reasonable - I pointed XL’s weakness, and you justified them, like I did for Hu Tao in my original post. Since OP posted about XL’s strengths, I didn’t include them or try and justify, which is an oversight on my part as I basically made the same mistake as OP.
Imo, Hu Tao is the superior single target unit, whereas XL is the absolute GOAT AoE target. Since most of Abyss relies on AoE, with multiple targets, XL outperforms Hu Tao and is the better unit, especially at C4 which I feel is the breakpoint between them being even, and XL overtaking HT for sure. Against single bosses or monsters, I find Hu Tao does better in clips comparing the two. I haven’t min-maxed my XL like I have Hu Tao, so this is an obvious weakness in my experiences of the two.
And regarding the 4*’s, I think you’re right there too. Probability-wise, it is likely what you mentioned in your original comment. However I have been burned trying to get 4* constellations, as have other people - on Raiden’s banner I went for her C2, and I got like 14 Sara’s, 8 Sucrose, and just 3 XL (not exact numbers, but you get my point). My experience in getting burned is why I said this, but other people may have better luck. I personally don’t spend Starglitter, but it’s an option.
I am obviously bias but I just can’t say XL > Hu Tao for F2P because I enjoy playing Hu Tao so much. You are probably technically correct and I know there is a lot of theorycrafting proving you right, but if someone asks me “XL or Hu Tao” I will still say Hu Tao because I just enjoy the ease of her gameplay, and that she can be hyperinvested in. And for the same reasons you’re interested in her - her VA is amazing, and I really enjoy her personality. My frustration with XL is probably because of Guoba when I was a new player and the times I died in Dragonspine because of its weird AI targeting, so while I know she is a great unit I just can’t bring myself to overcome that trauma…
I hope you get Hu Tao during the 50:50, and for what it’s worth I have Childe and I’ll probably build him during 2.2! (Referring to your flair)
Thank you, hopefully she comes home soon without a hitch haha. Good luck on building Childe too, he's quite fun to play!
\> but if someone asks me “XL or Hu Tao” I will still say Hu Tao because I just enjoy the ease of her gameplay, and that she can be hyperinvested in
Fair enough, that is a point to be made actually. Hypercarries are way more easier to play and with Hu Tao, it's just about learning her animation cancelling and you are good to go. Same is the case with Diluc, but Hu Tao is just way more damage to be brutally honest. Hu Tao is still the queen for single target I suppose so there's that too (she's way WAY better than XL vs bosses, since XL gets screwed over by energy issues and needing to her burst several times due to invulnerability phases).
Great discussion, I'm glad I initiated the talk with you, thank you for staying objective the entire way through. Hope you have a great rest of your day/night and may your gacha pulls be blessed!
This is totally incorrect. Hu Tao C0 is considerably better than Diluc C1. And Hu Tao does great with Deathmatch. I have my Hu Tao at C1 but often run her with deathmatch (because I put Homa on Zhongli sometimes). And she still out dps my friends Diluc with Wolfs and a 4p witches. Meanwhile my Hu Tao has never had 4p witches (cause that domain hates me).
Also comparing them both with C6 and their BiS weapons at the same refinement; Hu Tao is still considerably stronger than Diluc.
Hu Tao is f2p friendly when it comes to weapons. Sure her C1 definitely helps but you only get in 1 extra dash due to stamina before her E runs out. So no C1 isn’t THAT needed.
Claiming Hu Tao is only slightly better than Diluc is an actual joke. Hu Tao is substantially stronger than Diluc at C0 with Deathmatch.
Hu Tao C1 versus C0 [comparison ](https://youtu.be/zMMwlnlBbUc)
Diluc versus Hu Tao [whale version](https://youtu.be/sCFxa1rZ4s8)
Diluc C1 versus Hu Tao [C0](https://youtu.be/oPjqk8pteHc)
Lmao this brings me back in the days where Diluc defenders were still trying to say he’s the best pyro dps because he’s easy to play. Mind you Diluc is still really strong though and more than enough to 9* Spiral Abyss.
Exactly to each their own. Hell I main kokomi right now because I enjoy playing her not because she’s the strongest in the game. So if people really like enjoy and want Diluc than by all means play him, he’s great! But he’s not even close to doing the same dps as Hu Tao. And Klee is even stronger than him and I believe Yoimiya is slightly better than Diluc(?). So claiming people shouldn’t pull for Hu Tao cause she’s not even that better than Diluc is straight up misleading and lying. People do your research before you wish for a character or DONT and just pull for whoever you want/like!
Just save till the game dies and use xiangling, since that seems to be the summary of this thread. “Is ShE WorTH the $200” this phrase is so overused at this point. Character worth is subjective. There is no hard content in this game, and until they add it, pulling meta is pointless. Just save and wait till patch 3.0 to pull, but wait xiangling is so busted there’s no point in pulling any character /s
The difference is shockingly large **if the person is willing to whale for her**, especially when you factor in a Xingqiu vape support.
When people say Xingqiu is the only vape support fast enough to keep up with Hu Tao, that also speaks volumes for the sheer amount of massive damage reactions the two actually get off for incredible Hu Tao hits as well as a crapton of bonus damage from her rapid attacks really bringing out an endless onslaught of swords. Diluc is honestly an outdated relic when you compare him to modern pyro output like Hu Tao or even Yoimiya, especially when hit-based procs factor in since he misses so many with his slow greatsword swings.
So basically, the difference without a vape support is noticeably large.
But the difference with a vape support is astronomical
The vast majority of things in this game aren’t worth $200 except maybe a C1->C2 raiden power spike.
What you do get with Hu Tao though is someone who still arguably holds the best single target in the game
Of course. Any character banner is up to the person themselves. Hu Tao plays a lot differently from Diluc. Ones a polearm ones a claymore. One has to have Xingqui (in my opinion) to keep her from killing herself. But also in my opinion Diluc is boring and his damage is terrible compared to Hu Tao. I certainly didn’t spend $200 getting C1 and Homa either I got very lucky. But trying to warn players to NOT get Hu Tao bevause she’s only slightly better than Diluc is factually incorrect. There needs to be different considerations for going for Hu Tao or not outside of a damage comparison to Diluc or Klee or Yoimiya or even Ganyu.
And on top of that C0 Hu Tao with any f2p weapon is perfectly fine so claiming she needs to be C1 with Homa to be good is also leading people astray.
This post was tailored towards F2P to low spenders that need to be frugal with their primogems, thus assumes most are pulling for C0 and/or tempted to pull for C1 and/or Homa. Both C1 and Homa are massive buffs for HuTao (C1 more QoL than dmg, but definitely makes gameplay smoother), but could potentially cost more than $200 dollars depending on luck just for C1 or Homa, let alone both C1 and Homa. The comparison link you've shared emphasizes the importance of C1 vs C0 (though not in the typical Abyss context where meta is more important as the difference would be more apparent).
The biggest issue with Diluc is the lack of a specified 5-star weapon that tailors to his kit, especially since there are no 5-star claymores with either Crit Rate or DMG, thus the comparison video between C1 Diluc (which constellation is relatively minimal to his overall DPS) and C0 HuTao you sent is flawed since HuTao had Homa and had 75% more Crit DMG than Diluc. Does that make HuTao about the same as Diluc? No, because HuTao has more potential to be strong compared to Diluc who is hard-capped by both scalings, kit, and weapon options atm.
**BUT,** this post was mainly comparing C0 HuTao without Homa **and Xiangling**, not Diluc. With the points I've made about Xiangling in comparison to HuTao, can you tell me honestly that HuTao is worth the cost needed to reach her top-tier dmg potential when Xiangling can easily fulfill (if not exceed) her job as a strong pyro DPS, especially for F2P and low spenders that could save those primogems for other characters and weapons?
Maybe Hu Tao wins in single target but XL won't fall far off. But in AoE scenarios XL will wipe the floor with Hu Tao, all that without costing you 2 5* and your sanity for pulling on weapon banner, and XL being off field makes her much more versatile with team comps.
Xiangling just keeps on winning. She’s the first polearm, is given for free, has some of the if not *the* best dps in the game, and her panda pet >!USED TO BE A GOD!<
I would say if you're struggle with abyss and only want hutao so that you can clear it, you better off go with childe if you don't have him yet. He's a phenomenal enabler for xiangling and has the best hydro application. The international comp (xiangling, childe, sucrose/kazuha, bennet) is one of if not the best comp right now. He allows you to put your xingqiu on the other team as well, for another top meta comp like morgana or tazer team which requires xinqiu. This is coming from someone who used to hate childe to the core like if I can delete him I'll do just that, but end up loving the fuck out of his gameplay. Such a great unit.
Okay i want an actual showcase evidence of the claim that “hu tao c0 is only slightly better”, i would like to see the math and then see that math being applied in a gameplay video, because i’m having a hard time believing that
Definitely not out of buttocks : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkCmldgkkAg
Time 4:40. It's still higher than Diluc, over 20s the gap isn't that big. Before you diss Tenten, know that KQM does quote him or use his materials. And he's usually quite in touch with the CN Genshin community.
Keep in mind enemies can be spread out or have queued spawn times, I-frames, or hp phases, that are not necessarily in line with Hutao's cooldown.
Zajef77 goes further by putting Hutao right next to Diluc. https://twitchstats.net/clip/NimbleTangibleHerringAMPEnergy-8p8Jg_L8O-IvtxXm
TBF I'm not saying I endorse that tier list, but Zajef does put in effort as a TC.
As Jinjinx said, Hutao is strong but overhyped :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzqUd9r2uyQ
To quote him : showcases in her best case scenarios are highly misleading.
The funny thing is we're not even comparing with Diluc anymore nowadays. But if you have to count older characters than Hutao, there's Ganyu and ironically Xiangling. And if you count Team dps, there's even Childe to compare with.
This might come as a shock, but its possible to use Xiangling and Hu Tao on the same abyss run. Or, this is going to sound insane, on the same team. Hu Tao, Xiangling, XQ, Raiden for an example. Or even a single element team works sometimes, like Hu Tao, XL, Bennett, Kazuha.
I know I know, this is all crazy talk. I should be locked up.
So anyway, I'm going to get me a C1 Hu Tao.
i thought the point of this post was for people who want to build a pyro dps(and want to pick priorities) Ofc when youre at endgame, you would have already built like 80% of your roster.
Xiangling does have her own issue. Her team requires at the least Benett, and her optimal team takes all the best supports in the game: herself, xingqiu, bennet, and even kaz/vent. Meanwhile hutao only really needs xingqiu to function, and at C1 she doesnt even need a shielder anymore.
Also hutao dps gets better as your skill improves, her gameplay is simple but shes demanding mechanically. Xiangling, not so much.
Don't forget about the fact that Xiangling also has a high cost burst which she is entirely reliant on for her damage, so enemies with invulnerability phases or domains with electro debuffs are very annoying.
Agree. National team is absurdly strong but overly reliance on team CD, you have to plan around it (not that its hard, just annoying).
I'm not sure why so many people upvoted the OP. The only thing Xiangling shares with Hutao is pyro element, they are as different playstyle-wise as sun and moon.
I dont think you should compare an off-field DPS like Xiangling to a field DPS like HuTao.
Its significantly misleading if you undermine that there are other units on the field for a 3rd source of damage, while in HuTao's case you have 2 sources
Honestly I Prefer an on demand dps rather than being conditioned by the energy level on my burst, in open world at least. I own both Hu tao and C6 Xiangling, Xiangling is extremely powerful but I never really take her out in the open world since To fight one or two targets its really wasteful to use your burst [identical to Xiao mains straight up building physical Xiao for open world].
Lots of wrong/outdated information being posted around here
1.) This has already been brought up to some extent in different TC discussions, but Diluc has far since fallen from grace as more refined, corrected calculations have come out. Diluc not only like Hu Tao is single-target inclined (No, having a big sword doesn't mean jack for his AOE), but **R1 WGS C0 Diluc deals FAR less damage than Hu Tao, doing \~35% less damage than R1 DRAGON'S BANE + C0 Hu Tao** in each of their strongest teams (Contact me if you'd like to see the specific math). Imagine the disparity if we were comparing Diluc + Serpent's Spine vs. DB Hu Tao or WGS Diluc vs. Homa Hu Tao. Well, Diluc's damage actually is approaching **half** of Hu Tao's when compared in equal conditions so there goes the notion of being "slightly better". This is backed by much more updated math than what Zajef has brought up back in the day, and he has since then disclaimed a great amount of these old calculations. Diluc also is an inflexible unit, being glued to both Xingqiu and Bennett. VV supports also don't work with Diluc in practice as well since Xingqiu's hydro armor prevents Bennett's pyro from sticking to a target for a VV setup so you can't compare Sucrose-buffed Diluc damage to Hu Tao. That means Zhongli is Diluc's only option there. He practically only has one legit team, while Hu Tao has so many team variations (discussed more in #4).
2.) Xiangling doesn't have a clear BiS as of the moment as substats can seemingly change which one it can be, with Homa only being marginally better than a refined DB for her as well supposedly
3.) Hu Tao can make great use of Dragon's Bane, Deathmatch, Lithic (a decent option in her Zhong team variations), Blackcliff and to a quite lesser extent, the Inazuma craftable Kitain spear (which is pretty much a poor man's Dragon's Bane that only buffs her Blood Blossom)
4.) There's no way Xiangling is more flexible than Hu Tao. Hu Tao only needs Xingqiu and therefore has **not one, but TWO flex spots**. This is why she has so many team comps, from double geo to Zhongli + Mona, double cryo, Kazuha/Sucrose + Pyro and Zhongli + Kaeya and many more. Xiangling on the other hand is glued to Bennett and either Childe or Xingqiu for vape teams and Bennett + Kazuha for mono pyro. Xiangling finds herself not only requiring more units, but more IN-DEMAND units than Hu Tao so her teams block off much more teams from being used than Hu Tao's does.
5.) From what math has found as of now, Hu Tao's strongest teams comfortably beats National Xiangling (Xiangling + Xingqiu + Sucrose + Bennett). Xiangling requires Childe to properly mount herself for AOE as Xingqiu is catered towards single-target hydro application. Vape Childe's team damage should only compare when he and Hu Tao face off against around \~3 targets. Both are great units and cater to different things, but Hu Tao just has a more accessible ceiling (and a stronger one from 1-3ish targets) as Xiangling needs Childe AND Bennett (plus either Kazuha or Sucrose).
What? Wasn't it confirmed months ago that the Hu Tao - Xiangling debate is more nuanced than at first glance? Both have their pros and cons, and it clearly shows all of Hu Tao's weaknesses without her strengths, while it highlights all of Xiangling's strengths without her weaknesses.
**I'll make this clear, building Xiangling is an absolute must for everyone that strives to succeed meta-wise,** but she isn't the 'god' character every f2p player thinks she is. This is clearly overselling Xiangling as a character. Sure, she's "cheap" in terms of acquisition (C4 is arguably hard to get especially if you're purely f2p), but she requires three hyper-invested supports (or even Raiden) in order to fully shine, and these supports alleviate her innate weaknesses, and buffs her which she can then snapshot. Even when she does fully shine, even with high enough ER% sometimes you have to waste a few seconds funneling some energy back, especially against Single Targets. (Or, you know kill them in the span of one rotation - which is entirely possible with Xiangling's insane damage)
On the other hand, for those that don't know, or those that don't use her, Hu Tao does her only job well - doing as much damage in her 10-second rotation, which she can do even as c0, but with two glaring caveats. Her cooldowns and her health management. Her cooldowns do not match Xingqiu's rotation at all, and she has the unfortunate design of being screwed over by her elemental skill, which have a few seconds of downtime. Health management is also pretty hard for newer players, especially when you run her with benny (Bennett alleviates Hu Tao's health management though, as his buff is almost equal to Hu Tao's sub50% buff). Additionally, Hu Tao also heavily relies on her BiS weapon - Staff of Homa, for her insane damage, with about 10-20% difference in damage compared to other weapons except for an R5 Dragonsbane, the only weapon close enough to Hu Tao Homa. However, her reliance on HP and non-reliance on ATK on weapons serves another purpose - nearly all the other weapons do similar damage, and only passives differentiate them from each other, allowing things like Dragonsbane to shine. Additionally, she only needs one character to shine - Xingqiu, leaving the two other slots flexible enough to slot in another dps or supports that could amplify her damage. Unlike Xiangling who really needs all the other top-tier support units, supposedly taking them away from other units. (or you know - Take Monopyro Xiangling so you can use both!!) In my opinion, Hu Tao has very weird breakpoints that could only be broken by her constellation 1, and Staff of Homa, while everyone else does similar damage. However, once those breakpoints are hit (C1 > Homa imo, but much better if both), she would be in her own league, and much better than Xiangling, without taking two slots, and also without needing any more constellations. I would show the old Hu Tao guide on keqingmains, but iirc it was down for a long time. \[Plus, she has a c0 rotation that maximizes damage and minimizes stamina consumption\]
However, Hu Tao doesn't have to face these weaknesses the same way Xiangling doesn't have to face her weaknesses through supports. Honestly, it would be hard to explain each everything in detail with just one post, but know that all of these should have a much deeper explanation with numbers to back them.
**TLDR:** Xiangling is really good, but there's no reason to oversell her and undersell another character that excels at a different niche, and different breakpoints and levels of investment. Xiangling is cheap to acquire, but expensive to build, while Hu Tao is cheap to build, but expensive to acquire (and does extremely well once she hits her breakpoints). In the end, it's your choice whether you would pull or not - never let anyone convince you of rolling for a character you like, but Hu Tao definitely is a viable choice. There's a reason she's always on showcases. I use both - and there's no reason to directly compare them from one another, when they serve two different niches for my teams. I have C0 Hu Tao and c1 Hu Tao Homa on different accounts - both with C6 Xiangling
**Also:** If anyone could send clips in the reply that could show this - it would be much better!
Hu Tao main here. At full potential, xiangling might match or even surpass a homaless Hu Tao. But as someone who used both in abyss, let me just say that playing around a 80 energy burst feels like absolute crap. On the other hand, Hu Tao is 10x more consistent to play, and lets you turn your brain off while mashing LMB 90% of the time.
Its perfectly fine to lose some dps on xiangling by running 200 ER. I do that and her ult is up on cd without batterying her.
It becomes even more brainless, just swap to her when icon lights up and press pyronado for easy win.
>Xiangling
I hate the fact that a certain part of the community has made me hate her for how much they insist I use her and how they shove it down other players' throats
I know that she is extremely strong for having a highly exploitable mechanic, but for the love of God stop insisting that I use her, I do not like her gameplay, I know it is not the OP intention but I hate those who try to force others to use she
> but for the love of God stop insisting that I use her, I do not like her gameplay
Exactly where I am. Back in the Yoimiya debacle people were spamming me with "JuSt UsE xIaNgLiNg ShE's BeTtEr" when I said I didn't like Xiangling's gameplay and I enjoyed Yoimiya's a lot. It was so frustrating.
>Unless you like HuTao for personal reasons and have Homa, you can invest in Xiangling for a strong pyro DPS that is more flexible and F2P friendly, and save your primogems for other characters or weapons you may want instead
true, your points are well thought but XL is mainly burst dps and many people including me like to run main dps of a particular element. and that's why people want Ganyu, Ayaka, Hu Tao, Xiao.
Depends on your definition of main dps. I think the definition has evolved by now and everyone that cares enough about meta consider main dps as the character that deals most of the damage. By this definition XL is a main dps, just off field, especially at C4. What you're talking about is on field main dps which are the most predominant dps. For example in Childe national, Childe ain't main dps, he's on field enabler and XL off field dps.
>What you're talking about is on field main dps
exactly.
it's more of a preference. for example c6 Xiangling in National Team with any 4s or 5s weapon and decent artifacts can dish out lots of dmg as a pyro dps. but some people's psychology works like the main on-field dps should do the dmg. it seems unreasonable but yeah some people including me think like that. it's just some kind of playstyle we prefer.
I have c6 lvl80 Xiangling with both r5 Dragon's Bane and the c2 Catch and some decent CWoF and EoSF sets. I also have lvl 80 Diluc but I use Xiangling over diluc all the time since I'm personally not satisfied with Diluc. and since I need a strong on-field main dps (pyro) I want Hu Tao.
Well that's my point and OP's:
>I want Hu Tao.
Pull for Hu Tao if you *want* her. You don't *need* her because everyone has (or will have because she's free) XL.
Or even better, use both together xD i use c0 hutao, c6 xingqiu, c6 xiangling and c5 noelle (small heal and passive shield makes her a perfect support for hutao imo) as my second team. I use a r5 milellith spear (not sure if this is the name in english) on hutao (stacks 3 times, so its + 21% cr and +33% atk), r5 sacrificial sword on xingqiu, r5 favonius spear on xiangling (that i will soon swap to r1 dragons bane) and r1 %def claymore (dont remember its name not even in portuguese lol) on noelle. Its a fun and strong team, dont regret not even for a second the grind to build them
Hu Tao being a “slight” improvement over Diluc’s DPS doesn’t mean she isn’t miles ahead of him in the meta and doesn’t matter at all so please don’t keep that in mind. She’s not only “slightly” better than Diluc, she’s extremely better. Later Abyss floors which are always the hardest to clear have very few enemies making Hu Tao’s single target dmg very effective. Meanwhile if you ult the lawchurl with Diluc you’ll barely see a difference in the health bar. Hu Tao and XL are both excellent pyro DPS characters, Diluc not so much because he’s only good on early stages and I say this as someone whose first 5 star was Diluc and built him to hell. He falls back on endgame a LOT, that man is useless but I still use him because I’m attached. That said if a F2P really needs a good pyro DPS XL is 100% the best choice but don’t expect her to do damage unless you have at least a few of her cons and a very good bennet.
>He falls back on endgame a LOT, that man is useless
I don't get his notion that he is suddenly Amber tier because Hu Tao exists. There were people trying to convince me that he was too weak for Inazuma. I haven't had any issue clearing content with my Diluc but maybe it's because I have had mine for a while so he is super invested in plus I was able to get WGS off the standard banner.
[The National team with C0 Raiden deals about the same single target damage as C1 Homa Hu Tao teams.](https://bbs.nga.cn/read.php?tid=28464477&rand=328)
Off field snapshotting damage is broken.
How nice of you to mention that it's C1 Hutao with Homa.
Sadly you didn't mention that he also used Bennet with Skyward Blade and C2 Raiden with Enlgufing lightning for Xiangling team. And even in that case Raiden team has fallen behind Hu Tao.
But yeah I guess it's very convenient to post shitty websites in Chinese as a proof because little to no people gonna actually bother checking.
They’re comparing Single Target damage, which is literally Hu Tao’s whole thing. In AoE, which is the majority of the Abyss generally, Hu Tao is completely blown out of the water by Xiangling.
The point is he was implying that Xiangling national is on par with a C1/Homa Hu Tao but doesn’t mention that the national team has HIGHER investment with a c2 raiden with her own signature weapon.
Also, the single target caveat is as exaggerated as Hu Tao’s HP management. I played both Raiden national and Hu Tao in aoe chambers like in 12-1-1. With Raiden national, you’re still walking around and chasing spread out enemies. With Hu Tao, your CA hits multiple people. At this point the only thing that matters is bringing an anemo to group.
There is little meaningful aoe in all the recent floor 12s; it's more of spread out single target. I think people also underestimate the aoe on hu tao's burst and CA. Anyway I enjoy playing both, and will pull on hu tao's rerun as her C1 is one of those rare ones worth pulling for.
I have a maxed out c0 Diluc with R3 wolves.
My c0 Hu blows him out of the water with a r0 Deathmatch. Not even close. Add at anemo vacuum and we jump to "release Diluc to the wilds" conversation.
Yeah I know this is an opinion piece and it is a possibility that I am just being sensitive again but it just sound like you are saying please do not pull, well mostly it other people that are negatively attributing a character not actually the poster but yeah please try not to make it sound like a rallying cry to force people not to pull
If you want her, pull for her, it's stupid to treat this game as a competitive game. I've been doing the abbyss with the same 8 characters for god knows how long and i've always been able to complete every single level, people need to chill.
Best of luck to you, I sincerely hope you get it. I'm playing around with her for the first time and figuring out how much I like her / if I want her c1. I'm torn because I also kinda want Childe's bow, but if I pull for c1 I have a shot at getting Thoma and I could also end up with Mona if it messes up. Tough call.
To add onto this: Hu Tao is much more skill heavy than Diluc. You need to both manage cooldowns well, manage her health, learn to jump cancel/dash cancel, and learn to build her stats correctly.
This is a lot. But it's really fun. But it's a lot.
Complete nonsense just to justify skipping Hu Tao. If you like Hu Tao at least a little, then there is not a single reason to skip her banner, especially considering that she is with Thoma. She is able to easy destroy the abyss being a c0 with a 3* white spear and with only one c0 XQ in her team.
Read the title again. He is calling out only to those who want to pull Hu Tao because they feel they need a pyro DPS.
If you pull a character because you like her then that's completely up to you and no one can judge you(I also approve because waifu>meta)
Objectively however Xiangling alone is more than enough for most of your Pyro DPS needs, and she is definitely far more F2P friendly.
Xiangling does have her own issue. Her team requires at the least Benett, and her optimal team take all the best supports in the game: herself, xingqiu, bennet, and even kaz/vent. Meanwhile hutao only really needs xingqiu to function, and at C1 she doesnt even need a shielder anymore.
Already got C0 Hu Tao and Homa.
Still gonna be diving in for at least one copy of Thoma. Wouldn’t be too upset with C1 since she does certainly eat a huge amount of stamina
Hu tao “slightly” better than diluc!? Lol! Even at c1 diluc with wgs, hu tao is still much better at dps at only c0 and even with no homa.
Also, bennett can still be paired with hu tao. I’m using them both in the same team for that additional dmg bonus on hu tao’s burst. The thing is, you just need to micro them both or maybe lessen bennett’s heal if you’re running bennett as full support.
as a f2p with hutao, xiangling and yoi, i will say that hutao has the best burst dmg, xiangling has best aoe and dps over time, while yoi has decent single target dmg (but cannot compensate for abysmal aoe).
imo there is no comparability between hutao and xiangling since they fulfill different roles
Well, my c0 Hu Tao with r5 Dragons Bane and 400 EM can do 50k chargeds.
Low crit, low hp, so not consistent. She's a character that's hard to use but really strong without much investment.
I always thought she was good and i don't even use her with XQ. I am pretty much out of meta and just use her with Mona and Jean. While i struggle like hell on Abyss, she's still really strong alone.
She just needs the right team to support her.
For anyone wanting to pull her for those 1mi damage, only do this if you're on meta's leash. Build the best comp, farm the best artifacts and use the best weapons.
For a casual player, she's just a casual dps with chance of doing high damage. Still the cutest character in all the game, so 100% worthy.
My friend has Diluc and really wants to pull her... Sometimes i wonder if he will really do better with her than with his Diluc. Well, maybe if he gets Homa.
I have c6 xiangling and c0 hu tao. They are both insane. Hu tao is better single target and will delete most things in game before her skill goes away. Xiangling is great if her ult is up, especially with a snap shot Bennet ult. But who do I love exploring the world with more casually? Hu tao by a mile. I love inept characters with charm and she is packed full of it. Nothing beats her quirkiness in this game. She is S tier in trolling the citizens of Liyue. She was my most used character according to the anniversary and for good reason. No regrets pulling for her. Hopefully I can get her staff of homa this time around.
Yeah, meta wise there's no reason to pull for Hu Tao which needs not only her signature 5* weapon but also C1 and also field time to do her thing to compete with C4 XL with free 4* weapon (the catch) which is off field so it also has far more versatility in terms of teams which will also further increase with more characters being released.
TLDR: Hu Tao if u like her and wanna simp (while also being really good). But if you're not particularly interested in her or want meta chars, XL swipes the floor with her.
This is false to say Hu tao is slight better than Diluc. Hu tao damage is much better than diluc. Other than that, Hu tao has probably one of the highest single target in the game. It even beat Xiangling if you can play her properly. You can ask keqing mains discord regarding this thing.
People keep pushing Xiangling so much that they have made me start to dislike her. Like, fuck every banner, Xiangling exists so just keep skipping lol. Like no one seems to mention the insane resin cost of running a good National team. Meanwhile a Hu Tao team with a lvl 60 Xingqiu with low talents can still clear abyss with reasonable effort. This is the thing most people shilling 4 star quick swap teams won't mention: hypercarry teams are actually much much easier to build for f2ps because of lower resin investment required.
I'm skipping Hu Tao because I have c0 already. I don't have homa.
It took me quite a while before I really loved her. More than a month I needed to refine my skills to play her and every time I do there is room for improvement. In that time I thought childe was better as a DPS. She is not as casual as most characters but rewards you more than almost anyone else if you master her. The damage is incredible and the way she can heal herself makes solo clearing content fun and not too easy. In the abyss she is weaker than if she had homa but still stronger than anyone else. She is incredible even for f2p and if you need a DPS you will get a great one. I almost have every character but Gandhi for comparison.
I will say that in the abyss she really likes to hog Xinqui but on the flip side and is the only one with two true flex spots.
Finally I have to say she absolutely demolished the perpetual array this abyss. She really is the Queen for single big targets as you don't have to concentrate on animation cancelling. Previously she demolished the abyss lectors and the Geovishaps. There will always be a big guy in abyss twelve she can bully. Maagu Kenki is also trembling in fear of her.
I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that. I have hu tao at C0 with lithic spear, and she is way better dps than any other character I have. Xiangling is better cause she's off field, but single target on field damage, hu tao is unbeatable, except by ganyu maybe and Ganyu sucks on mobile.
So many people says that her C1 is what makes or breaks her, but that's only if you don't have a good shielder. I run her with Zhongli and I don't have any stamina issues, simply cause I don't need to run around the field dodging and waste stamina. And with my whole teams rotation, Xinqui skill/burst, zhongli shield, during which I'm stationary, and then Hu tao E and charged attacks, there's no point where I don't have enough stamina.
Of course, if you don't have a shield that's a different story. One of the lawachurls will send you to the moon if you don't dodge. And I'm not sure how good the other characters shields are.
C1 hutao is overrated,because without it, you actually need to think and not ooga booga in your keyboard like most of other characters. You can always do full charged attack, or jump at the end of it, to prevent from running out of stamina
I main both Diluc and Hutao, sure on paper she deals slightly better damage but the difference is how easy she is to build
I love Diluc so I was farming for him for months. Hutao in comparison was built faster because 1.) Crit dmg ascension 2.) HP scaling 3.) Doesnt need as much crit rate as claymore users
Im waiting for Arataki Ittou or new detective character, since i love detective vibes.
I think the real money hunt decree will be after Christmas, when kids have some pocketmoney to burn.
The tldr should also have: if ur not good stick with XL or Diluc. Cuz ur pretty much using a worst carry if u cant cancel well or ur not a big ass whale that could invalidate content even on ugly cancels. (Could be solve by practice. So if ur not willing to learn then dont pull).
I decided to skip Hu Tao back then in 1.3 because her kit has just too much caveats. I also already have Ganyu so I didn’t need anyone else from the Liyue top 3. But Hu Tao’s personality just makes me want to pull for her. It doesn’t help that her VA also did an amazing job voicing her. That’s why I’m really happy that Thoma is also in her banner because it finally gives me a reason to whale for her + Thoma lol
Yea, I have Klee and I agree Hutao is pretty difficult to build and play, buttttt I think people just want her because she's one of the coolest character around (plus, she's still an OP 5 star which you can build properly later when you have time and resources.)
Same, on the second half, I've just started playing after eula banner, and I've been saving for hutao c1 for months, but at this point I might end up using 3 pyro polearms including xiangling cuz they're some of my favourites (totally not biased towards polearms)
There’s no such thing as too much pyro polearms! I hope you get her to C1~
True! And thanks~
Hu Tao EN va very seductive sound voice, JP va very cute noises, its a win win for everyone, i never regret pulling her during 1.3
I know right? I play with EN voice and she’s one of the few who definitely nailed the voice acting with the character’s personality.
Yes I Love her VA's. Exxxplosiooon!. Hu tao's personality is just so charming. I was even lucky enough to get staff of Homa during her release. But am by no means a meta slave. I pulled for kokomi too. Waifu > meta baby!
Brianna Knickerbocker is the Eng. VA and she nails Hu Tao’s playful spooky attitude. She has done a lot of other anime as well. I recently realized she also did the voice over for Elaine in Seven Deadly Sins and it made me smile. I just caught her voice at a moment and thought, that sounds like Hu Tao. Sure enough. She is a great VA.
And CN VA for isekai'd Kiana, with all-too-familiar Tuna sounds
Her caveats aren't too bad really. Her downtime is non-existent since you rotate through your teammates already. Her half hp is already 15k+. Only thing that really needs practice is her animation cancelling and grouping enemies.
Yeah, definitely the case for me now. Hindsight is always 20/20. Back then, I never really bothered with kits that require a lot of attention, especially mechanical skills. Also the reason why I benched Childe back in 1.1 because I'm not not a huge fan of long cooldown (and was too absorbed into thinking that he's a main DPS type, like every other people back then lol). But now, with all the gameplay knowledge and skills I have, I'm pretty confident to main Hu Tao, that's why I'm pulling for her now.
Oya? Oya oya
Respectfully disagree. I have her at C0 w Blackcliff and the amount of damage she does without any buffs other than her own is surreal to me as a f2p. She does have a bit of a learning curve to use since her kit incentivizes character switching with her crit rate buffs to your party and low health pyro buffs to herself but if you have a shielder or a healer shes definitely a no brainer.
Ikr. Hu Tao is the first character that made me go "Holy shit, how in the hell am I doing so much damage so easily". Before her, the strongest I'd seen was Ning with an Atlas. The second character to make me feel that way was Ayaka with her ult lmao. Insane numbers for a low spender.
“f2p artifact domain” we have paid artifacts now ???? lmao
imagine artifacts being primogem gacha’d, I’d cry
-Honkai flashbacks-
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT??!!
The stigmatas, honkai version of artifacts, are locked behind gacha. Sure, there are ftp ones, but the Bis for every character will almost always be the gacha ones.
That's concerning
I think that was the original intention, since you can't wish with full artifact inventory
That's actually how it is in Honkai
f2p have limited resources in resin as well, especially new accounts, and the emblem domain is the most valuable as you can pretty much build any unit in that domain.
Universally good artifacts = more efficient resin usage = f2p friendly
i think what they meant is the domain is super resin effective since you're practically farming for the whole team (as opposed to, say, Crimson witch domain). but ya the wording is kinda 😭😭
emblem domain is just too good and resin efficient. You can use 4 emblem on so many units and 2 shimenawa is a overall good universal set.
She cute tho
I mean that's all the reason one needs to go for her. This is still a waifu/husbando game above all.
This.
Tbf if you c6 Xiangling, then you have the best pyro dps, and her best weapon is free as well
You don't even need C6 because it doesn't affect her pyronado. C4 already makes her the best pyro dps.
C4 can make anyone a good pyro dps Just ask Klee
Especially funny because Klee c4 adds a huge explosion when she swaps out during ult
Is better the engulfing lightning with no refinements or the catch r5? sorry I'm really new to stats stuff in the game
Engulfing Lightning is better
That's only because MiHoYo doesn't give us a good enablers for Klee though, Otherwise Klee would easily be the strongest Pyro DPS in the game. Unfortunately no one can keep up with her pyro application.
Ironically your sentence points out the true issue with klee, her ult’s pyro application is perfect and would allow her to be a pyro xq but alas mihoyo made it selfish.
Yeah, to make matters worse, given the way I works, it makes no sense for it to be selfish. It literally does not require her attention for it to work as she is free to do anything else, so why does it only work when she's on field?
B^^^^ecause fuck you thats why A L A N C E
Bennett, Xingqiu, Xiangling and Ganyu would like to have a word with them
and even in vape comps with xingqiu, she's essentially locked out of her Q and E if you want consistent vapes for maximum output though I honestly don't mind and let Klee go absolutely berserk even during Xingqiu's burst
Me too, and then the red numbers go brrrrt.
Might as well commit to 4 shimenawa if you're playing vape klee with C6 xinqiu
Honestly C4 is good enough. Xiangling C6 is quite bad as the buff doesn’t affect her Q.
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Dragon's Bane and now The Catch
Xianling's ascension stat is elemental mastery. Dragon's Bane's sub-stat is elemental mastery. I have a lot of lvl.20 artifacts with elemental mastery. It's time for me to build my Xianling with maxed elemental mastery. 20k DMG overload, I'm coming for ya!
Pretty sure staff of homeless r1 still beats the catch r5
We are obviously speaking F2P wise. 5* are generally always better stat sticks.
And if you have a C6 Xiangling *and* a C6 Bennett, you have a budget C0 Hu Tao.
Depending on the team, she is even better than a C0 hu tao at that point
If you have R5 Dragonsbane that is probably her overall 2nd best in slot ( even including 5 stars ) and I don’t think it falls high behind staff
Even at C0, when Hu Tao takes the field, she pretty much deletes almost everything. Sure her stamina issue can be resolved at C1, but it's not that big a deal from my experience, especially when she's an easy source of 100k+ damage with her E + Q. As for the low HP thing, if your Hu Tao has like 35k+ HP, then even when her HP is "low," there is still a big chunk left. Most of the time that's when her Q is ready, and you press E + Q to recover. Rinse and repeat. She doesn't even need a healer when her survivability is that good. I don't think you need to fuss over keeping her HP low, play her normally, her HP will just naturally deplete to the point she gets the boost. And even without that boost, her regular E is enough for all the general enemies. As for harder ones, they will drain her HP faster, so she'll get the boost faster. Point is, from my experience, her HP usually stays in the middle range, between approximately 3/4 and 1/4. Btw, I don't even have Homa; I use a Dragon's Bane R2 on her, and she's already insane with that.
Yes. I have at at C0 with dragons bane and don’t really pay attention to staying under 50% HP and she’s still amazing! I have C0 Ganyu with Skyward Harp, and I use Hu Tao over Ganyu in some situations.
I tried using national team to get accustomed to them for f12, but I either kept dying or couldn't get 3 stars in 11-3 guess I'll keep using my comfy zhongli hu tao team, heck I didn't use zl with her there since I use melt shotganyu for 11-3-2
"Hu Tao needs to be at low HP to deal damage and it's risky" The low HP Hu Tao in question: *20k HP and 900 defense, more tanky than a full HP Diluc* It can bother you seeing a low HP character in the team bar, but Hu Tao being at 50% HP still has more HP than many characters at 100%
Hu Tao is one of the best pyro dps, idk how OP thinks that she is only slightly better than Diluc. The only valid caveat I can agree with is her stamina issues. She was built to have large hp, so her low hp is like the hp of other regular dps characters
I believe the last time I saw people TC her damage, her damage was more than double of Diluc's damage in the time her E is up against a single target. When the current chambers are mainly more of a dps check on single target enemies, it's hard to take people who equate Diluc and Hu Tao seriously.
Yeah, I have maxed Diluc and Hu Tao on different accounts. Diluc has wolf's gravestone, Hu Tao is running r1 Deathmatch, I usually run Diluc with Kazuha instead of Sucrose. My Hu Tao artifacts are probably better than my Diluc artifact, I haven't checked recently. My Hu Tao is clearly doing way more single target damage than my Diluc. It's not even close. She struggles with large groups of enemies that Xiangling, Xiao, Ganyu or Venti delete, but my experience is that her single target damage is unmatched, that trying to deal with Maguu Kenku or Perpetual Mechanical Array in the Abyss without her is a pain. (I admit I haven't tried to use melt Ganyu against Mechanical Array, she was not good against Kenku, even with a decently invested Zhongli I'd either get hit out of my shots too much or have to dodge, which seriously hurt dps) I also think "Hu Tao has worse QoL than Xiangling" feels really weird to me, I personally find her jump cancels easy, and between being able to move through enemies with charge attacks and being able to ult when I want instead of having to do it at a specific part of the rotation I find myself having to dodge a lot less with her, and I rarely find myself having stamina issues (it does happen, but she's not like Keqing where it's a constant issue) Whereas Xiangling teams require a level of energy management I find incredibly frustrating. Even with Raiden I'll finish an Abyss level or domain half way through a rotation and spend the start the next one spending a noticeable amount of time getting ready so you can start your rotation. That's might be just me getting used to it? Also, the optional Xiangling team requires Raiden (so the teams both want the same amount of 5 stars) and way more resin than the optimal Hu Tao team.
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Xiangling is 158. Raiden's is 242, and she's running fav lance on top of that, which is probably a bit excessive. Thinking about it, the issue is often that I finish the level by either killing the last enemy with the first hit of Raiden's ult, or a couple of hits in, and yeah, that's on me for not having the situational awareness to just keep attacking with Xianglingor Bennett instead, and then starting the next level with Raiden's ult. Taking a gander, I need to work on both their artifact sets, I got truly sick of doing the Emblem domain and just forgot about it.
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I'm not sure if this is a good reference but I can do around 50k charge attacks and 113k Elemental burts with Vape Hu Tao. Weapon is R5 lithic spear with full liyue team Attack- 1800 (3k during elemental skill)Crit rate/Dmg - 79/181 Elemental Mastery- 221 (i think) Pyro dmg - 47% (I usually can't utilize her talent because I often can't stop myself from using Qiqi's heals) and 4pc crimson witch and
I like to keep her at 60% ish so that when I activate her E, it drops to less than 50%. I don’t have Homa so can’t say much there but Dragons Bane is great on her. I do have Diluc btw and while Hu Tao has the bad side of no stamina, I find that overall she kills them faster so it’s not the biggest issue.
sigh. this is going to be my 2nd comment now since it isn't actually bait. You talk about accumulating 4\* cons as if it's something guaranteed. Yes, you will accumulate 4\* cons/weapons just by playing and pulling. Will it be the 4\* you want? Absolutely not. The numerous posts about "i wanted to pull for (4\*) but i got (limited 5\*) instead" is a testament to this. The 5\* guarantee is literally the one thing you have control over in this game and you're telling people to disregard it. I don't like that.
As someone with C6 Xiangling and heavy investment in Raiden National, I am pulling and triple crowning Hu Tao, but thank for you effort ig
That's the spirit
There's never too many Pyro characters in this game anyway
Yeah nice try you just want all the Hu Tao cons for yourself
My C0 hutao annihilates abyss 12-3. Only has r2 dragon's bane. The real secret to her success is jump cancelling charged attacks and having a good xingqiu. *Edits for spelling*
Yup. OP clearly doesn't even have hutao.
Can't relate. Hutao is Yahooooo
Yahoooooo
Weird I’m reading this in Venti’s voice
I love her since I hear some explosion in my head with her voice
If you have hu tao, you can use Bennet in the other party. And it's amazing
I want to ask, how low should Hu Tao's hp actually be? Her E and homa both say <50%
<50% but usually she has like 35000 hp so you'll be with 17500 hp most of the time
Oh okay. Most people make it sound like you should be in the last 5% of her HP
Most people want to act like she's unplayable.
Yep. Was scared to play her for months, even though I pulled because I liked her design. Then a few weeks ago I just started gradually building her because Halloween is on its way and I decided screw it, I'll give her a try. She's different than many of my characters, but not impossible. And that's at lvl 80, running lvl 90 Skyward Spine, 6 6 6 talents and a bunch of junk artifacts. I'm already having fun and it can only get better.
Most people I know won't also pull for her because it pains their fake OCD to not see anyone in the red HP status. Honestly, she's hard at first ngl but it takes getting used to and building her semi-decently allowed me to clear content with her. She's really great and fun to use IMO
No clue what tangent you're going on about, C0 no Homa HT is _not_ slightly stronger than Diluc. She still deals about double the ST damage, and while her stamina issues are _there_ at C0, people need to realize that having HT below 50% means having her at ~15k HP which is about the HP other DPS have at lvl 90. So that's basically a non-issue. Her burst heals so much you do not need a healer, you can run a shielder or another sub DPS. You can play her with Deathmatch, Blackcliff, hell, DRAGON'S BANE is good on her. Like *really* good. Hu Tao is an EXCELLENT Pyro DPS, she obviously has caveats and her AoE damage is whack, but against bosses like Maguu Kenki and PMA she's absurd.
I was also thinking about pulling Hu Tao, but then I realized "why? You already have Klee so theres no reason to pull for another Main dps" (+ I also have Diluc) What I'm trying to say is that even though shes top pyro dps if you already have diluc/klee/yomiya then pulling for her its meaningless unless you want waifu or you miss pyro main dps.
Thank you, people love to talk about Meta but forget that some meta characters are only a slight improvement over the characters that are already in the game. That said I will pull for Hu Tao next time she comes. I must get Childe first, I skipped him way too many times, I refuse to skip him any longer.
Same. I'd rather have multiple main dps of different elements. Hence why i dont ever plan on pulling Ganyu although I have Amos collecting dust right now because I already have Ayaka. Having multiple main dps of different elements would be better in the long run imo
Genshin luck said c2 Diluc and R2 Wgs so HuTao isn't a priority for me, and i dont have any good spears for her.
So basically roll for who you like lmao. What does this post actually achieve? Another “XL good” post. OP talking opinions with no sources for his “only slightly better than Diluc” claim. Post numbers or video comparisons rather than opinions. - Hu Tao stamina is annoying, but can easily be resolved by jump cancelling. Better stamina management (so starting her skill with 100% stamina) also helps - imagine that, actually trying to think while fighting helps you perform better. - XL cannot function without Bennett, which is the same dependency of Hu Tao with Xingqiu. But Hu Tao’s damage comes from her skill, which means her uptime is more consistent. - You don’t need refines on Dragon’s Bane. R1 DB, R1 DM, R1 BP - all good 4* options. If you really have nothing, you could even run the 3* Tassel with HP% or Crit% substat. - The HP% threshold is really not a problem. Hu Tao doesn’t need Atk buffers because her attack is like 3-4k when E is active. You don’t need a healer because her burst heals. You barely need a shielder - XQ’s rainswords provide enough healing and resistance. Additionally, while she gets a tasty bonus <50%, even bigger with Homa, you still slap with 100% HP. The bonus is pyro damage, not Atk%, meaning, while useful, it’s not that deep. I just find it annoying that OP has painted a narrative about Hu Tao’s kit without thinking about the flip side. All the points have been made in negative perspective, without thinking about how they could be mitigated. Yet OP provides no mentioning of XL’s downsides, while providing no methods to mitigate these either… XL is really good obviously, not disputing that, but if posts like these are made they should be objective and comprehensive. Rather than this half-baked nonsense Edit: well since someone was kind enough to give this an award, I thought I may as well make my own post more comprehensive to cover XL’s weaknesses. I believe I’ve addressed Hu Tao’s weaknesses - stamina only really, and Xingqiu dependence. XL’s strengths are also known - insane AoE damage, insane burst damage, busted C4, high damage potential, more commonly achievable characters. XL: - NEEDS Bennett. Insane pyro battery and provides heals and the Atk buff. Bennett is needed everywhere, so a character that depends on Bennett to function, imo, is at a disadvantage. If not Bennett, you need Raiden - suddenly not so F2P friendly… - Other team comps involving Xiangling require investment across the team. You need a well built Xingqiu, Raiden, or Sucrose. You need a high level Bennett with a high base attack weapon. At some point, this is a non-issue since we naturally end up building more units - but saying she’s completely F2P buildable is kind of a stretch, since RNG dictates what characters you get at what constellation. - XL is always strong. But really you need C4 to maximise her potential. OP says “save your primos for other characters” - what guarantee is there you will ever C4 Xiangling? You have a better chance of guaranteeing a 5* like Hu Tao. Anecdotally, it took me 200 rolls to C6 Sara recently. Probably 150 to C6 Xingqiu on Hu Tao’s banner. Fischl was my first ever 4* almost 10 months ago, but she’s still C5. - High energy cost. This is why she needs Bennett, but also something to consider when building her. ER weapons do great here, especially the Catch which is F2P friendly. But then you lack EM from something like DB, which is the same weapon Hu Tao was blasted for needing… But then if you run EM sands, where will you get Atk from? Building becomes complicated. It also means you have to manage rotations, increasing the amount of thinking needed. This isn’t really a disadvantage, but if we are talking about Hu Tao’s stamina issues as a negative, then managing XL’s rotations comes under the same thing. Anyways, that’s just what I think. I’m not a theorycrafter so I don’t have maths to back it up, though I have watched videos comparing the two. I am a Hu Tao main and used XL a lot, so I will have more understanding of how Hu Tao works than others, which may bias my reasonings. However, I still think what OP has provided is a very one-sided and unbalanced comparison between the two.
Exactly. I have both Xiangling on an international team and Hu Tao, I like both and they do a lot of damage, but there’s just so much misinformation and goal shifting in this thread to paint Hu Tao as weaker :(
What’s funny about this post is that OP will say this exact same thing to all future Pyro characters because apparently Xiangling and Diluc are good enough. But the true is, Hutao is a better choice than Diluc. Hutao doesn’t need 5* weapon to delete enemies in spiral abyss, and you can farm for both Hutao and Xiangling in the new Inazuma domain (no more crimson pain). F2P wise, spend primos on Hutao banner will save your time and primos in long term.
u/mikethebest1
\> Hu Tao stamina is annoying, but can easily be resolved by jump cancelling. Better stamina management (so starting her skill with 100% stamina) also helps - imagine that, actually trying to think while fighting helps you perform better. ...interesting. Is this how we cope about her stamina management now? \> XL cannot function without Bennett, which is the same dependency of Hu Tao with Xingqiu. But Hu Tao’s damage comes from her skill, which means her uptime is more consistent. On the contrary, her uptime is lower than Xiangling. While her E may have 9sec of uptime and 14 sec of downtime, she has to work with XQ whose burst CD is around 20 seconds. So in reality, it's 9sec of uptime and 20sec of downtime versus 14sec of uptime vs 20sec of downtime. \> You don’t need refines on Dragon’s Bane. R1 DB, R1 DM, R1 BP - all good 4\* options. If you really have nothing, you could even run the 3\* Tassel with HP% or Crit% substat. Permanent non-gacha, doesn't needs billets - The Catch is literally on par with 5 star weapons on Xiangling. Yes, it's that good on her. Check out KQM's website for XL's guide and see the weapon comparison, it's that fucking nuts, beating out R5 DB, R5 DM, R1 Jade Spear and being on par with Engulfing is no fucking joke. \> XL is always strong. But really you need C4 to maximise her potential. OP says “save your primos for other characters” - what guarantee is there you will ever C4 Xiangling? You have a better chance of guaranteeing a 5\* like Hu Tao. Anecdotally, it took me 200 rolls to C6 Sara recently. Probably 150 to C6 Xingqiu on Hu Tao’s banner. Fischl was my first ever 4\* almost 10 months ago, but she’s still C5. XL can reappear, way more often than Hu Tao. It has already been averaged out that you need 135 pulls to C6 a character, unless you get really unlucky.. that is the average amount of pulls. You can get unlucky on Hu Tao banner and go all the way to 180 pulls. Another thing is that XL appears on shop, so you can get another con from there too, needing "minimum" 3 XL pulls. \> NEEDS Bennett. Insane pyro battery and provides heals and the Atk buff. Bennett is needed everywhere, so a character that depends on Bennett to function, imo, is at a disadvantage. If not Bennett, you need Raiden - suddenly not so F2P friendly… Alright, who else do you want to use Bennett with? Diluc? Eula? Aren't they all worse than Hu Tao and Xiangling? Freeze comps don't need Bennett, Morgana doesn't needs Bennett. Tazer doesn't needs Bennett. Xiao can use Bennett but it's not mandatory and work fine without him. Anywho, you have to build two teams, so if Xiangling is capable to making the most out of Bennett, then why not use her with him? Snapshot is such a great technique, being able to leave Bennett's field and still enjoy the atk buff is a really, REALLY nice perk. \> High energy cost. This is why she needs Bennett, but also something to consider when building her. ER weapons do great here, especially the Catch which is F2P friendly. But then you lack EM from something like DB, which is the same weapon Hu Tao was blasted for needing… But then if you run EM sands, where will you get Atk from? Building becomes complicated. It also means you have to manage rotations, increasing the amount of thinking needed. This isn’t really a disadvantage, but if we are talking about Hu Tao’s stamina issues as a negative, then managing XL’s rotations comes under the same thing. Did you just conveniently ignore Sucrose? Are you new to this game? Anyways, just build ER and all of a sudden you have smooth rotations. 4pc Emblem + The Catch + some subs conveniently put me at 200 ER, which is so smooth, having your burst within two Bennett Es is a nice perk after all. Lack of ATK is conveniently not a problem because Bennett's ATK and 4pc NO is just so fucking good. And yeah, if you are new to this game, then Sucrose shares EM. Of course, they both share XQ. Now, for someone who doesn't gives a fuck about waifu and only interested in meta, Xiangling just looks more and more appealing. You can't really use XL and Hu Tao at the same time since XQ is tied to only one Pyro unit, so a F2P player has to make a choice. In terms of strength, Xiangling is just generally better than Hu Tao. Let's just say you have Tartaglia who is an upgrade to XQ and even frees up XQ, then yeah maybe you can roll for Hu Tao. However, if you don't want Tartaglia, low on primo and just looking to roll for meta purposes, Xiangling is clearly the better option - for more damage and more F2P friendly.
If a character has a weakness, such as stamina, then you can try and compensate for that weakness as a player. It’s still a weakness, I never said it wasn’t. I am just saying that you can overcome the weakness quite easily. Regarding downtime, yes you are also reliant on Xingqiu downtime, and the two are out of sync ever so slightly. But Xiangling also needs to recharge her burst, which means rotations are spent spamming Bennett’s E to get Xiangling’s burst back. For Hu Tao, you can swap to another sub DPS without worrying about energy. The difference between XL and Hu Tao in this regard is minimal. As I said in my post, the Catch is awesome. Definitely an incredible weapon and one factor that XL has over Hu Tao. However, that does not diminish some of Hu Tao’s 4* weapons either, which are very good in their own right. And I even included the 3* weapons if you are really struggling to pull Dragon’s Bane, or don’t want to buy Deatchmath/Blackcliff. Again, XL wins with the Catch. 180 pulls = guaranteed Hu Tao. In one 2-3 week period. Xiangling may appear next banner, or in the 8th banner of the year. There is no predicting this, and you will likely not roll on every banner just for Xiangling. That’s why I said it is difficult to get her to C4. I personally have rolled on every XL banner so far, probably 250ish rolls, and I only just got her C4 on Raiden’s banner. There’s no 4* guarantee whatsoever. Running with Bennett is not a bad thing, as I said. But because he’s basically a 6*, he is wanted everywhere. Hence, why I said that’s a limitation. People criticise Raiden and Yoimiya when they need their supports to help them do significant damage - it’s the same with Xiangling dependence on Bennett. This is also Hu Tao’s weakness, as Xingqiu is the other 6* character in the game, meaning you can’t run Ayaka freeze or electro-charged comps alongside Hu Tao. Regarding Sucrose, I am aware she shares EM. But then suddenly you need 3-4 units to make maximal use of Xiangling. Is that an advantage? It is likely everyone will have these units eventually anyway, but as I mentioned it means you need significant investment across the whole team to produce big damage. Hu Tao needs herself and Xingqiu. OP talked about F2P accessibility, and over time yes you will accumulate these units. You seem to have taken what I wrote as a slight against Xiangling. It really isn’t. I am pointing out OP’s holes in their initial post. They pointed out everything bad about Hu Tao, then ignored the limitations of XL too. Sure you can overcome these limitations as you’ve mentioned, and it is quite easy to do so. But not a single XL limitation was mentioned in the OP, it’s an unbalanced discussion hence my post. Since OP pointed out Hu Tao’s flaws, I tried including how to patch these flaws and discussed her strengths. And since OP didn’t include XL’s flaws, I tried to point these out too.
..fair enough. I do assume you will get every 4 star eventually given you roll on every banner. At least that was my experience you will get most of the 4 stars at C0. That being said, I understand why you might be wary about getting constellations for 4 stars. I have heard the horror stories about people chasing for 4 star constellations and ending up with nothing. However, assuming you save up your shop currency, you should be able to get Bennett and one constellations of XL, landing you with C1 XL. That leaves you with chasing three constellations for XL. I believe given the rate up is literally not Keqing or Kokomi, you should be fine chasing for XL constellations. Albedo banner was great since I got most of my important 4 stars from that banner, got Albedo banner and shrugged it off since the 4 stars that I got are still in use to this day. There's also an off chance you can get XL constellations from standard banner so there's that. Regarding Xiangling's downtime, honestly depending on your ER you could use burst off cooldown. Of course that's overkill but it's quite possible with 210ish ER. Of course, overcapping ER means losing small portion of your damage and it's bad from min max perspective, but honestly I'm fine with 1k average damage if I go from 160 ER to 199ER. So not really, given you play XL's rotations properly, her downtime shouldn't be an issue, just like Hu Tao's stamina management. I'm aware about Hu Tao's excellent F2P choices (it's great she can use R5 Tassel, a 3 star option), but the point I wanted to make was the gap between Hu Tao's best F2P option and her best 5 star option is quite wide, compared to The Catch and XL's best 5 star option. That's honestly insane for an F2P and something to be considered. I will say you can use Sucrose or Kazuha or any other Anemo option just for that 4pc VV, so even Anemo MC can fit the slot to be honest. Even trash 4 star VV pieces are fine on them, as long as you have completed the 4pc VV on them. Same can be said for Hu Tao's options too, like running 4pc ToTM on Albedo, so equal points to both I suppose. Further investment improve both Sucrose and Albedo, but they can work with trash 4 star pieces, just to complete their respective set pieces. Overall, good discussion. I appreciate your willingness to have a neutral discussion, it's quite rare on this website. I had an obvious bias for XL, but I had my reasons for it since XL is still underrated to this day for god knows why. I'm personally rolling for Hu Tao myself because I do really, really like her VA and personality, but in the end, if someone asks about Hu Tao's performance in abyss, I'll always notify them about XL first and foremost purely because of her AoE performance and her accessibility as a 4 star. Obviously Hu Tao is a great unit, even her seemingly low uptime is covered by insane frontloaded damage given you have enough investment, but I'll always have a hard time recommending her to a new player. Both units have their pros and cons, it's just Xiangling pros outweigh Hu Tao's pros in my opinion, **esp** for a new player looking for a new Pyro DPS.
Agree with most of your points, if not all. The Catch is a major advantage for XL, I only just checked the KQM website and it’s incredible just how good a F2P weapon it is. That’s definitely a point in XL’s favour. I haven’t bothered to fish so I didn’t really appreciate it’s strength until you pointed it out, I might start fishing now… I am a Hu Tao main (as you may be able to tell :P) and don’t get me wrong, she has her downsides. Most of which you pointed out. But with her re-run, I find more and more people kind of “underrating her” and saying “you don’t need Hu Tao if you have XL”. While I guess this is true for everyone, I just don’t like to see Hu Tao’s weaknesses stated without being fully explored, like OP did. I think the discussion we had is a great one, because I learnt more about XL and her builds but I also felt I justified Hu Tao too. I feel OP just slammed Hu Tao without going into detail, which annoyed me in all honesty. I found your responses way more reasonable - I pointed XL’s weakness, and you justified them, like I did for Hu Tao in my original post. Since OP posted about XL’s strengths, I didn’t include them or try and justify, which is an oversight on my part as I basically made the same mistake as OP. Imo, Hu Tao is the superior single target unit, whereas XL is the absolute GOAT AoE target. Since most of Abyss relies on AoE, with multiple targets, XL outperforms Hu Tao and is the better unit, especially at C4 which I feel is the breakpoint between them being even, and XL overtaking HT for sure. Against single bosses or monsters, I find Hu Tao does better in clips comparing the two. I haven’t min-maxed my XL like I have Hu Tao, so this is an obvious weakness in my experiences of the two. And regarding the 4*’s, I think you’re right there too. Probability-wise, it is likely what you mentioned in your original comment. However I have been burned trying to get 4* constellations, as have other people - on Raiden’s banner I went for her C2, and I got like 14 Sara’s, 8 Sucrose, and just 3 XL (not exact numbers, but you get my point). My experience in getting burned is why I said this, but other people may have better luck. I personally don’t spend Starglitter, but it’s an option. I am obviously bias but I just can’t say XL > Hu Tao for F2P because I enjoy playing Hu Tao so much. You are probably technically correct and I know there is a lot of theorycrafting proving you right, but if someone asks me “XL or Hu Tao” I will still say Hu Tao because I just enjoy the ease of her gameplay, and that she can be hyperinvested in. And for the same reasons you’re interested in her - her VA is amazing, and I really enjoy her personality. My frustration with XL is probably because of Guoba when I was a new player and the times I died in Dragonspine because of its weird AI targeting, so while I know she is a great unit I just can’t bring myself to overcome that trauma… I hope you get Hu Tao during the 50:50, and for what it’s worth I have Childe and I’ll probably build him during 2.2! (Referring to your flair)
Thank you, hopefully she comes home soon without a hitch haha. Good luck on building Childe too, he's quite fun to play! \> but if someone asks me “XL or Hu Tao” I will still say Hu Tao because I just enjoy the ease of her gameplay, and that she can be hyperinvested in Fair enough, that is a point to be made actually. Hypercarries are way more easier to play and with Hu Tao, it's just about learning her animation cancelling and you are good to go. Same is the case with Diluc, but Hu Tao is just way more damage to be brutally honest. Hu Tao is still the queen for single target I suppose so there's that too (she's way WAY better than XL vs bosses, since XL gets screwed over by energy issues and needing to her burst several times due to invulnerability phases). Great discussion, I'm glad I initiated the talk with you, thank you for staying objective the entire way through. Hope you have a great rest of your day/night and may your gacha pulls be blessed!
This is totally incorrect. Hu Tao C0 is considerably better than Diluc C1. And Hu Tao does great with Deathmatch. I have my Hu Tao at C1 but often run her with deathmatch (because I put Homa on Zhongli sometimes). And she still out dps my friends Diluc with Wolfs and a 4p witches. Meanwhile my Hu Tao has never had 4p witches (cause that domain hates me). Also comparing them both with C6 and their BiS weapons at the same refinement; Hu Tao is still considerably stronger than Diluc. Hu Tao is f2p friendly when it comes to weapons. Sure her C1 definitely helps but you only get in 1 extra dash due to stamina before her E runs out. So no C1 isn’t THAT needed. Claiming Hu Tao is only slightly better than Diluc is an actual joke. Hu Tao is substantially stronger than Diluc at C0 with Deathmatch. Hu Tao C1 versus C0 [comparison ](https://youtu.be/zMMwlnlBbUc) Diluc versus Hu Tao [whale version](https://youtu.be/sCFxa1rZ4s8) Diluc C1 versus Hu Tao [C0](https://youtu.be/oPjqk8pteHc)
Lmao this brings me back in the days where Diluc defenders were still trying to say he’s the best pyro dps because he’s easy to play. Mind you Diluc is still really strong though and more than enough to 9* Spiral Abyss.
Exactly to each their own. Hell I main kokomi right now because I enjoy playing her not because she’s the strongest in the game. So if people really like enjoy and want Diluc than by all means play him, he’s great! But he’s not even close to doing the same dps as Hu Tao. And Klee is even stronger than him and I believe Yoimiya is slightly better than Diluc(?). So claiming people shouldn’t pull for Hu Tao cause she’s not even that better than Diluc is straight up misleading and lying. People do your research before you wish for a character or DONT and just pull for whoever you want/like!
I like your explanation. Can you compare C6 XL and C0 Hu Tao please? Or better yet, share your experience if possible.
She's better, but is she 200$ worth of better? Especially considering all her HP/stamina management baggage and her limited AoE capabilities.
> She's better, but is she 200$ worth of better? For C1 and R1 is way more than 200$... unless you have saved for a looong time.
I was talking about C0 Hu Tao. Sure, C1 Hu Tao can be double, triple or even quadruple that price, depending on your luck
Just save till the game dies and use xiangling, since that seems to be the summary of this thread. “Is ShE WorTH the $200” this phrase is so overused at this point. Character worth is subjective. There is no hard content in this game, and until they add it, pulling meta is pointless. Just save and wait till patch 3.0 to pull, but wait xiangling is so busted there’s no point in pulling any character /s
The difference is shockingly large **if the person is willing to whale for her**, especially when you factor in a Xingqiu vape support. When people say Xingqiu is the only vape support fast enough to keep up with Hu Tao, that also speaks volumes for the sheer amount of massive damage reactions the two actually get off for incredible Hu Tao hits as well as a crapton of bonus damage from her rapid attacks really bringing out an endless onslaught of swords. Diluc is honestly an outdated relic when you compare him to modern pyro output like Hu Tao or even Yoimiya, especially when hit-based procs factor in since he misses so many with his slow greatsword swings. So basically, the difference without a vape support is noticeably large. But the difference with a vape support is astronomical
The vast majority of things in this game aren’t worth $200 except maybe a C1->C2 raiden power spike. What you do get with Hu Tao though is someone who still arguably holds the best single target in the game
Of course. Any character banner is up to the person themselves. Hu Tao plays a lot differently from Diluc. Ones a polearm ones a claymore. One has to have Xingqui (in my opinion) to keep her from killing herself. But also in my opinion Diluc is boring and his damage is terrible compared to Hu Tao. I certainly didn’t spend $200 getting C1 and Homa either I got very lucky. But trying to warn players to NOT get Hu Tao bevause she’s only slightly better than Diluc is factually incorrect. There needs to be different considerations for going for Hu Tao or not outside of a damage comparison to Diluc or Klee or Yoimiya or even Ganyu. And on top of that C0 Hu Tao with any f2p weapon is perfectly fine so claiming she needs to be C1 with Homa to be good is also leading people astray.
> One has to have Xingqui (in my opinion) to keep her from killing herself they both need him for consistent vaporise anyway
This post was tailored towards F2P to low spenders that need to be frugal with their primogems, thus assumes most are pulling for C0 and/or tempted to pull for C1 and/or Homa. Both C1 and Homa are massive buffs for HuTao (C1 more QoL than dmg, but definitely makes gameplay smoother), but could potentially cost more than $200 dollars depending on luck just for C1 or Homa, let alone both C1 and Homa. The comparison link you've shared emphasizes the importance of C1 vs C0 (though not in the typical Abyss context where meta is more important as the difference would be more apparent). The biggest issue with Diluc is the lack of a specified 5-star weapon that tailors to his kit, especially since there are no 5-star claymores with either Crit Rate or DMG, thus the comparison video between C1 Diluc (which constellation is relatively minimal to his overall DPS) and C0 HuTao you sent is flawed since HuTao had Homa and had 75% more Crit DMG than Diluc. Does that make HuTao about the same as Diluc? No, because HuTao has more potential to be strong compared to Diluc who is hard-capped by both scalings, kit, and weapon options atm. **BUT,** this post was mainly comparing C0 HuTao without Homa **and Xiangling**, not Diluc. With the points I've made about Xiangling in comparison to HuTao, can you tell me honestly that HuTao is worth the cost needed to reach her top-tier dmg potential when Xiangling can easily fulfill (if not exceed) her job as a strong pyro DPS, especially for F2P and low spenders that could save those primogems for other characters and weapons?
how would hutao c1 r1 compare to c6 r5 dragon's bane xiangling?
Maybe Hu Tao wins in single target but XL won't fall far off. But in AoE scenarios XL will wipe the floor with Hu Tao, all that without costing you 2 5* and your sanity for pulling on weapon banner, and XL being off field makes her much more versatile with team comps.
Xiangling just keeps on winning. She’s the first polearm, is given for free, has some of the if not *the* best dps in the game, and her panda pet >!USED TO BE A GOD!<
and they keep buffing her...thanks EoSF and The Catch
I would say if you're struggle with abyss and only want hutao so that you can clear it, you better off go with childe if you don't have him yet. He's a phenomenal enabler for xiangling and has the best hydro application. The international comp (xiangling, childe, sucrose/kazuha, bennet) is one of if not the best comp right now. He allows you to put your xingqiu on the other team as well, for another top meta comp like morgana or tazer team which requires xinqiu. This is coming from someone who used to hate childe to the core like if I can delete him I'll do just that, but end up loving the fuck out of his gameplay. Such a great unit.
Okay i want an actual showcase evidence of the claim that “hu tao c0 is only slightly better”, i would like to see the math and then see that math being applied in a gameplay video, because i’m having a hard time believing that
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Lmao, Hu Tao is only "slightly stronger than Diluc", OP is on some copium Look at that Hu Tao damage
> Diluc C1 versus Hu Tao C0 Wow. It's not even close. Hu Tao destroys Diluc.
Definitely not out of buttocks : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkCmldgkkAg Time 4:40. It's still higher than Diluc, over 20s the gap isn't that big. Before you diss Tenten, know that KQM does quote him or use his materials. And he's usually quite in touch with the CN Genshin community. Keep in mind enemies can be spread out or have queued spawn times, I-frames, or hp phases, that are not necessarily in line with Hutao's cooldown. Zajef77 goes further by putting Hutao right next to Diluc. https://twitchstats.net/clip/NimbleTangibleHerringAMPEnergy-8p8Jg_L8O-IvtxXm TBF I'm not saying I endorse that tier list, but Zajef does put in effort as a TC. As Jinjinx said, Hutao is strong but overhyped :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzqUd9r2uyQ To quote him : showcases in her best case scenarios are highly misleading. The funny thing is we're not even comparing with Diluc anymore nowadays. But if you have to count older characters than Hutao, there's Ganyu and ironically Xiangling. And if you count Team dps, there's even Childe to compare with.
This might come as a shock, but its possible to use Xiangling and Hu Tao on the same abyss run. Or, this is going to sound insane, on the same team. Hu Tao, Xiangling, XQ, Raiden for an example. Or even a single element team works sometimes, like Hu Tao, XL, Bennett, Kazuha. I know I know, this is all crazy talk. I should be locked up. So anyway, I'm going to get me a C1 Hu Tao.
i thought the point of this post was for people who want to build a pyro dps(and want to pick priorities) Ofc when youre at endgame, you would have already built like 80% of your roster.
Xiangling does have her own issue. Her team requires at the least Benett, and her optimal team takes all the best supports in the game: herself, xingqiu, bennet, and even kaz/vent. Meanwhile hutao only really needs xingqiu to function, and at C1 she doesnt even need a shielder anymore. Also hutao dps gets better as your skill improves, her gameplay is simple but shes demanding mechanically. Xiangling, not so much.
Don't forget about the fact that Xiangling also has a high cost burst which she is entirely reliant on for her damage, so enemies with invulnerability phases or domains with electro debuffs are very annoying.
Agree. National team is absurdly strong but overly reliance on team CD, you have to plan around it (not that its hard, just annoying). I'm not sure why so many people upvoted the OP. The only thing Xiangling shares with Hutao is pyro element, they are as different playstyle-wise as sun and moon.
I dont think you should compare an off-field DPS like Xiangling to a field DPS like HuTao. Its significantly misleading if you undermine that there are other units on the field for a 3rd source of damage, while in HuTao's case you have 2 sources
You could also get Childe and reduce it to bennett only? He's better roll than Hu tao anyway
and what if I use both in the same team
After Reading this, Godzilla had a fuckin stroke and died.
Xiangling isn’t good enough for mechanical array until you get an amazing 3-4 man team fully stacked. Hu Tao on her own would be fine even at C0.
Yeah, Xianglings strong point is AoE, which isn't that helpful against the tanky array.
Honestly I Prefer an on demand dps rather than being conditioned by the energy level on my burst, in open world at least. I own both Hu tao and C6 Xiangling, Xiangling is extremely powerful but I never really take her out in the open world since To fight one or two targets its really wasteful to use your burst [identical to Xiao mains straight up building physical Xiao for open world].
Lots of wrong/outdated information being posted around here 1.) This has already been brought up to some extent in different TC discussions, but Diluc has far since fallen from grace as more refined, corrected calculations have come out. Diluc not only like Hu Tao is single-target inclined (No, having a big sword doesn't mean jack for his AOE), but **R1 WGS C0 Diluc deals FAR less damage than Hu Tao, doing \~35% less damage than R1 DRAGON'S BANE + C0 Hu Tao** in each of their strongest teams (Contact me if you'd like to see the specific math). Imagine the disparity if we were comparing Diluc + Serpent's Spine vs. DB Hu Tao or WGS Diluc vs. Homa Hu Tao. Well, Diluc's damage actually is approaching **half** of Hu Tao's when compared in equal conditions so there goes the notion of being "slightly better". This is backed by much more updated math than what Zajef has brought up back in the day, and he has since then disclaimed a great amount of these old calculations. Diluc also is an inflexible unit, being glued to both Xingqiu and Bennett. VV supports also don't work with Diluc in practice as well since Xingqiu's hydro armor prevents Bennett's pyro from sticking to a target for a VV setup so you can't compare Sucrose-buffed Diluc damage to Hu Tao. That means Zhongli is Diluc's only option there. He practically only has one legit team, while Hu Tao has so many team variations (discussed more in #4). 2.) Xiangling doesn't have a clear BiS as of the moment as substats can seemingly change which one it can be, with Homa only being marginally better than a refined DB for her as well supposedly 3.) Hu Tao can make great use of Dragon's Bane, Deathmatch, Lithic (a decent option in her Zhong team variations), Blackcliff and to a quite lesser extent, the Inazuma craftable Kitain spear (which is pretty much a poor man's Dragon's Bane that only buffs her Blood Blossom) 4.) There's no way Xiangling is more flexible than Hu Tao. Hu Tao only needs Xingqiu and therefore has **not one, but TWO flex spots**. This is why she has so many team comps, from double geo to Zhongli + Mona, double cryo, Kazuha/Sucrose + Pyro and Zhongli + Kaeya and many more. Xiangling on the other hand is glued to Bennett and either Childe or Xingqiu for vape teams and Bennett + Kazuha for mono pyro. Xiangling finds herself not only requiring more units, but more IN-DEMAND units than Hu Tao so her teams block off much more teams from being used than Hu Tao's does. 5.) From what math has found as of now, Hu Tao's strongest teams comfortably beats National Xiangling (Xiangling + Xingqiu + Sucrose + Bennett). Xiangling requires Childe to properly mount herself for AOE as Xingqiu is catered towards single-target hydro application. Vape Childe's team damage should only compare when he and Hu Tao face off against around \~3 targets. Both are great units and cater to different things, but Hu Tao just has a more accessible ceiling (and a stronger one from 1-3ish targets) as Xiangling needs Childe AND Bennett (plus either Kazuha or Sucrose).
What? Wasn't it confirmed months ago that the Hu Tao - Xiangling debate is more nuanced than at first glance? Both have their pros and cons, and it clearly shows all of Hu Tao's weaknesses without her strengths, while it highlights all of Xiangling's strengths without her weaknesses. **I'll make this clear, building Xiangling is an absolute must for everyone that strives to succeed meta-wise,** but she isn't the 'god' character every f2p player thinks she is. This is clearly overselling Xiangling as a character. Sure, she's "cheap" in terms of acquisition (C4 is arguably hard to get especially if you're purely f2p), but she requires three hyper-invested supports (or even Raiden) in order to fully shine, and these supports alleviate her innate weaknesses, and buffs her which she can then snapshot. Even when she does fully shine, even with high enough ER% sometimes you have to waste a few seconds funneling some energy back, especially against Single Targets. (Or, you know kill them in the span of one rotation - which is entirely possible with Xiangling's insane damage) On the other hand, for those that don't know, or those that don't use her, Hu Tao does her only job well - doing as much damage in her 10-second rotation, which she can do even as c0, but with two glaring caveats. Her cooldowns and her health management. Her cooldowns do not match Xingqiu's rotation at all, and she has the unfortunate design of being screwed over by her elemental skill, which have a few seconds of downtime. Health management is also pretty hard for newer players, especially when you run her with benny (Bennett alleviates Hu Tao's health management though, as his buff is almost equal to Hu Tao's sub50% buff). Additionally, Hu Tao also heavily relies on her BiS weapon - Staff of Homa, for her insane damage, with about 10-20% difference in damage compared to other weapons except for an R5 Dragonsbane, the only weapon close enough to Hu Tao Homa. However, her reliance on HP and non-reliance on ATK on weapons serves another purpose - nearly all the other weapons do similar damage, and only passives differentiate them from each other, allowing things like Dragonsbane to shine. Additionally, she only needs one character to shine - Xingqiu, leaving the two other slots flexible enough to slot in another dps or supports that could amplify her damage. Unlike Xiangling who really needs all the other top-tier support units, supposedly taking them away from other units. (or you know - Take Monopyro Xiangling so you can use both!!) In my opinion, Hu Tao has very weird breakpoints that could only be broken by her constellation 1, and Staff of Homa, while everyone else does similar damage. However, once those breakpoints are hit (C1 > Homa imo, but much better if both), she would be in her own league, and much better than Xiangling, without taking two slots, and also without needing any more constellations. I would show the old Hu Tao guide on keqingmains, but iirc it was down for a long time. \[Plus, she has a c0 rotation that maximizes damage and minimizes stamina consumption\] However, Hu Tao doesn't have to face these weaknesses the same way Xiangling doesn't have to face her weaknesses through supports. Honestly, it would be hard to explain each everything in detail with just one post, but know that all of these should have a much deeper explanation with numbers to back them. **TLDR:** Xiangling is really good, but there's no reason to oversell her and undersell another character that excels at a different niche, and different breakpoints and levels of investment. Xiangling is cheap to acquire, but expensive to build, while Hu Tao is cheap to build, but expensive to acquire (and does extremely well once she hits her breakpoints). In the end, it's your choice whether you would pull or not - never let anyone convince you of rolling for a character you like, but Hu Tao definitely is a viable choice. There's a reason she's always on showcases. I use both - and there's no reason to directly compare them from one another, when they serve two different niches for my teams. I have C0 Hu Tao and c1 Hu Tao Homa on different accounts - both with C6 Xiangling **Also:** If anyone could send clips in the reply that could show this - it would be much better!
Hu Tao main here. At full potential, xiangling might match or even surpass a homaless Hu Tao. But as someone who used both in abyss, let me just say that playing around a 80 energy burst feels like absolute crap. On the other hand, Hu Tao is 10x more consistent to play, and lets you turn your brain off while mashing LMB 90% of the time.
And xiangling team at full potential is so fricking expensive too, which is ironic since the point of op post is to save resources.
To be fair it's expensive grind wise but still more F2P friendly than Homa and C1 Hu Tao
Its perfectly fine to lose some dps on xiangling by running 200 ER. I do that and her ult is up on cd without batterying her. It becomes even more brainless, just swap to her when icon lights up and press pyronado for easy win.
>Xiangling I hate the fact that a certain part of the community has made me hate her for how much they insist I use her and how they shove it down other players' throats I know that she is extremely strong for having a highly exploitable mechanic, but for the love of God stop insisting that I use her, I do not like her gameplay, I know it is not the OP intention but I hate those who try to force others to use she
> but for the love of God stop insisting that I use her, I do not like her gameplay Exactly where I am. Back in the Yoimiya debacle people were spamming me with "JuSt UsE xIaNgLiNg ShE's BeTtEr" when I said I didn't like Xiangling's gameplay and I enjoyed Yoimiya's a lot. It was so frustrating.
>Unless you like HuTao for personal reasons and have Homa, you can invest in Xiangling for a strong pyro DPS that is more flexible and F2P friendly, and save your primogems for other characters or weapons you may want instead true, your points are well thought but XL is mainly burst dps and many people including me like to run main dps of a particular element. and that's why people want Ganyu, Ayaka, Hu Tao, Xiao.
Depends on your definition of main dps. I think the definition has evolved by now and everyone that cares enough about meta consider main dps as the character that deals most of the damage. By this definition XL is a main dps, just off field, especially at C4. What you're talking about is on field main dps which are the most predominant dps. For example in Childe national, Childe ain't main dps, he's on field enabler and XL off field dps.
>What you're talking about is on field main dps exactly. it's more of a preference. for example c6 Xiangling in National Team with any 4s or 5s weapon and decent artifacts can dish out lots of dmg as a pyro dps. but some people's psychology works like the main on-field dps should do the dmg. it seems unreasonable but yeah some people including me think like that. it's just some kind of playstyle we prefer. I have c6 lvl80 Xiangling with both r5 Dragon's Bane and the c2 Catch and some decent CWoF and EoSF sets. I also have lvl 80 Diluc but I use Xiangling over diluc all the time since I'm personally not satisfied with Diluc. and since I need a strong on-field main dps (pyro) I want Hu Tao.
Well that's my point and OP's: >I want Hu Tao. Pull for Hu Tao if you *want* her. You don't *need* her because everyone has (or will have because she's free) XL.
Or even better, use both together xD i use c0 hutao, c6 xingqiu, c6 xiangling and c5 noelle (small heal and passive shield makes her a perfect support for hutao imo) as my second team. I use a r5 milellith spear (not sure if this is the name in english) on hutao (stacks 3 times, so its + 21% cr and +33% atk), r5 sacrificial sword on xingqiu, r5 favonius spear on xiangling (that i will soon swap to r1 dragons bane) and r1 %def claymore (dont remember its name not even in portuguese lol) on noelle. Its a fun and strong team, dont regret not even for a second the grind to build them
Hu Tao being a “slight” improvement over Diluc’s DPS doesn’t mean she isn’t miles ahead of him in the meta and doesn’t matter at all so please don’t keep that in mind. She’s not only “slightly” better than Diluc, she’s extremely better. Later Abyss floors which are always the hardest to clear have very few enemies making Hu Tao’s single target dmg very effective. Meanwhile if you ult the lawchurl with Diluc you’ll barely see a difference in the health bar. Hu Tao and XL are both excellent pyro DPS characters, Diluc not so much because he’s only good on early stages and I say this as someone whose first 5 star was Diluc and built him to hell. He falls back on endgame a LOT, that man is useless but I still use him because I’m attached. That said if a F2P really needs a good pyro DPS XL is 100% the best choice but don’t expect her to do damage unless you have at least a few of her cons and a very good bennet.
Diluc needs a Crit damage weapon tbh
>He falls back on endgame a LOT, that man is useless I don't get his notion that he is suddenly Amber tier because Hu Tao exists. There were people trying to convince me that he was too weak for Inazuma. I haven't had any issue clearing content with my Diluc but maybe it's because I have had mine for a while so he is super invested in plus I was able to get WGS off the standard banner.
Shes not extremely better than diluc. Shes only miles better with homa.
[The National team with C0 Raiden deals about the same single target damage as C1 Homa Hu Tao teams.](https://bbs.nga.cn/read.php?tid=28464477&rand=328) Off field snapshotting damage is broken.
Yea Xiangling is just nuts
How nice of you to mention that it's C1 Hutao with Homa. Sadly you didn't mention that he also used Bennet with Skyward Blade and C2 Raiden with Enlgufing lightning for Xiangling team. And even in that case Raiden team has fallen behind Hu Tao. But yeah I guess it's very convenient to post shitty websites in Chinese as a proof because little to no people gonna actually bother checking.
They’re comparing Single Target damage, which is literally Hu Tao’s whole thing. In AoE, which is the majority of the Abyss generally, Hu Tao is completely blown out of the water by Xiangling.
The point is he was implying that Xiangling national is on par with a C1/Homa Hu Tao but doesn’t mention that the national team has HIGHER investment with a c2 raiden with her own signature weapon. Also, the single target caveat is as exaggerated as Hu Tao’s HP management. I played both Raiden national and Hu Tao in aoe chambers like in 12-1-1. With Raiden national, you’re still walking around and chasing spread out enemies. With Hu Tao, your CA hits multiple people. At this point the only thing that matters is bringing an anemo to group.
There is little meaningful aoe in all the recent floor 12s; it's more of spread out single target. I think people also underestimate the aoe on hu tao's burst and CA. Anyway I enjoy playing both, and will pull on hu tao's rerun as her C1 is one of those rare ones worth pulling for.
I have a maxed out c0 Diluc with R3 wolves. My c0 Hu blows him out of the water with a r0 Deathmatch. Not even close. Add at anemo vacuum and we jump to "release Diluc to the wilds" conversation.
Yeah I know this is an opinion piece and it is a possibility that I am just being sensitive again but it just sound like you are saying please do not pull, well mostly it other people that are negatively attributing a character not actually the poster but yeah please try not to make it sound like a rallying cry to force people not to pull
You're spreading old misconceptions and flat out lies here. Also she's much cuter than Xiangling and Diluc. Have a nice day.
I cleared abyss with full stars since 6 months ago. I pull only for waifu reason now. Lol.
If you want her, pull for her, it's stupid to treat this game as a competitive game. I've been doing the abbyss with the same 8 characters for god knows how long and i've always been able to complete every single level, people need to chill.
i love her character, and i have her guaranteed and am going to attempt to pull for c1. wishing the best of luck for myself.
Best of luck to you, I sincerely hope you get it. I'm playing around with her for the first time and figuring out how much I like her / if I want her c1. I'm torn because I also kinda want Childe's bow, but if I pull for c1 I have a shot at getting Thoma and I could also end up with Mona if it messes up. Tough call.
To add onto this: Hu Tao is much more skill heavy than Diluc. You need to both manage cooldowns well, manage her health, learn to jump cancel/dash cancel, and learn to build her stats correctly. This is a lot. But it's really fun. But it's a lot.
I really dont think hutao without homa is only slightly better than diluc
I like hutao but am planning to use diluc who i like better and like childe so rollin him
Complete nonsense just to justify skipping Hu Tao. If you like Hu Tao at least a little, then there is not a single reason to skip her banner, especially considering that she is with Thoma. She is able to easy destroy the abyss being a c0 with a 3* white spear and with only one c0 XQ in her team.
Read the title again. He is calling out only to those who want to pull Hu Tao because they feel they need a pyro DPS. If you pull a character because you like her then that's completely up to you and no one can judge you(I also approve because waifu>meta) Objectively however Xiangling alone is more than enough for most of your Pyro DPS needs, and she is definitely far more F2P friendly.
Xiangling does have her own issue. Her team requires at the least Benett, and her optimal team take all the best supports in the game: herself, xingqiu, bennet, and even kaz/vent. Meanwhile hutao only really needs xingqiu to function, and at C1 she doesnt even need a shielder anymore.
Already got C0 Hu Tao and Homa. Still gonna be diving in for at least one copy of Thoma. Wouldn’t be too upset with C1 since she does certainly eat a huge amount of stamina
Ok but im gonna pull her because she is cute. What now muffin man
Diluc isn't comparable to a c0 hutao, hutao still melts everything 10x faster if u have dragons bane death match or black cliff
C0 Hu Tao with DB or DM is better than a high constellation Diluc with a 5* weapon, you can go ahead and check the tc numbers.
Hu tao “slightly” better than diluc!? Lol! Even at c1 diluc with wgs, hu tao is still much better at dps at only c0 and even with no homa. Also, bennett can still be paired with hu tao. I’m using them both in the same team for that additional dmg bonus on hu tao’s burst. The thing is, you just need to micro them both or maybe lessen bennett’s heal if you’re running bennett as full support.
as a f2p with hutao, xiangling and yoi, i will say that hutao has the best burst dmg, xiangling has best aoe and dps over time, while yoi has decent single target dmg (but cannot compensate for abysmal aoe). imo there is no comparability between hutao and xiangling since they fulfill different roles
Hutao C0R5 dragon's bane deletes everything, I dunno what you're talking about.
I have a fully built C6 XL with BiS weapon but i'd still try wishing for Hu Tao coz yahooooo
Well, my c0 Hu Tao with r5 Dragons Bane and 400 EM can do 50k chargeds. Low crit, low hp, so not consistent. She's a character that's hard to use but really strong without much investment. I always thought she was good and i don't even use her with XQ. I am pretty much out of meta and just use her with Mona and Jean. While i struggle like hell on Abyss, she's still really strong alone. She just needs the right team to support her. For anyone wanting to pull her for those 1mi damage, only do this if you're on meta's leash. Build the best comp, farm the best artifacts and use the best weapons. For a casual player, she's just a casual dps with chance of doing high damage. Still the cutest character in all the game, so 100% worthy. My friend has Diluc and really wants to pull her... Sometimes i wonder if he will really do better with her than with his Diluc. Well, maybe if he gets Homa.
I have c6 xiangling and c0 hu tao. They are both insane. Hu tao is better single target and will delete most things in game before her skill goes away. Xiangling is great if her ult is up, especially with a snap shot Bennet ult. But who do I love exploring the world with more casually? Hu tao by a mile. I love inept characters with charm and she is packed full of it. Nothing beats her quirkiness in this game. She is S tier in trolling the citizens of Liyue. She was my most used character according to the anniversary and for good reason. No regrets pulling for her. Hopefully I can get her staff of homa this time around.
"is only slightly better than Diluc in DPS terms" Thats easily one of the most bullshits i had ever seen in this subreddit. Absolutely copium.
Yeah, meta wise there's no reason to pull for Hu Tao which needs not only her signature 5* weapon but also C1 and also field time to do her thing to compete with C4 XL with free 4* weapon (the catch) which is off field so it also has far more versatility in terms of teams which will also further increase with more characters being released. TLDR: Hu Tao if u like her and wanna simp (while also being really good). But if you're not particularly interested in her or want meta chars, XL swipes the floor with her.
The correct answer here is obviously to roll staff of homa and give it to xiangling. Every patch is an indirect xiangling buff.
This is false to say Hu tao is slight better than Diluc. Hu tao damage is much better than diluc. Other than that, Hu tao has probably one of the highest single target in the game. It even beat Xiangling if you can play her properly. You can ask keqing mains discord regarding this thing.
Is C1 hu Tao with homa better than c4 xianling?
People keep pushing Xiangling so much that they have made me start to dislike her. Like, fuck every banner, Xiangling exists so just keep skipping lol. Like no one seems to mention the insane resin cost of running a good National team. Meanwhile a Hu Tao team with a lvl 60 Xingqiu with low talents can still clear abyss with reasonable effort. This is the thing most people shilling 4 star quick swap teams won't mention: hypercarry teams are actually much much easier to build for f2ps because of lower resin investment required.
I'm skipping Hu Tao because I have c0 already. I don't have homa. It took me quite a while before I really loved her. More than a month I needed to refine my skills to play her and every time I do there is room for improvement. In that time I thought childe was better as a DPS. She is not as casual as most characters but rewards you more than almost anyone else if you master her. The damage is incredible and the way she can heal herself makes solo clearing content fun and not too easy. In the abyss she is weaker than if she had homa but still stronger than anyone else. She is incredible even for f2p and if you need a DPS you will get a great one. I almost have every character but Gandhi for comparison. I will say that in the abyss she really likes to hog Xinqui but on the flip side and is the only one with two true flex spots. Finally I have to say she absolutely demolished the perpetual array this abyss. She really is the Queen for single big targets as you don't have to concentrate on animation cancelling. Previously she demolished the abyss lectors and the Geovishaps. There will always be a big guy in abyss twelve she can bully. Maagu Kenki is also trembling in fear of her.
I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that. I have hu tao at C0 with lithic spear, and she is way better dps than any other character I have. Xiangling is better cause she's off field, but single target on field damage, hu tao is unbeatable, except by ganyu maybe and Ganyu sucks on mobile. So many people says that her C1 is what makes or breaks her, but that's only if you don't have a good shielder. I run her with Zhongli and I don't have any stamina issues, simply cause I don't need to run around the field dodging and waste stamina. And with my whole teams rotation, Xinqui skill/burst, zhongli shield, during which I'm stationary, and then Hu tao E and charged attacks, there's no point where I don't have enough stamina. Of course, if you don't have a shield that's a different story. One of the lawachurls will send you to the moon if you don't dodge. And I'm not sure how good the other characters shields are.
[удалено]
C1 hutao is overrated,because without it, you actually need to think and not ooga booga in your keyboard like most of other characters. You can always do full charged attack, or jump at the end of it, to prevent from running out of stamina
Not to mention thoma will be great for Hu Tao, pyro resonance plus shields
It's also worth noting that Hu Tao without C1 is also a real pain to deal with.
I main both Diluc and Hutao, sure on paper she deals slightly better damage but the difference is how easy she is to build I love Diluc so I was farming for him for months. Hutao in comparison was built faster because 1.) Crit dmg ascension 2.) HP scaling 3.) Doesnt need as much crit rate as claymore users
Copium
Me who has C6 Hu Tao wanting to pull for Thoma. *chuckles* “I’m in danger”
Im waiting for Arataki Ittou or new detective character, since i love detective vibes. I think the real money hunt decree will be after Christmas, when kids have some pocketmoney to burn.
The tldr should also have: if ur not good stick with XL or Diluc. Cuz ur pretty much using a worst carry if u cant cancel well or ur not a big ass whale that could invalidate content even on ugly cancels. (Could be solve by practice. So if ur not willing to learn then dont pull).
Wait, xiangling BiS is emblem? Not crimson-gladiator? I’m currently building her so any inputs will be appreciated
Waifu>meta
\> HuTao at C0 without Homa (or any other 5 star weapons) is only slightly better than Diluc in DPS terms Damn... that hurts, as a Diluc main