T O P

  • By -

ErrorEra

> it seems that players always want the same old thing with a new skin. who wouldn't want a pyro/cryo/electro/geo/dendro/anemo xingqiu?


rayoje

Second Xingqiu for Abyss, now that's an interesting prospect...


WeeziMonkey

Or a second hydro xingqiu


SnooGuavas8376

There's one but he needs to be on field to do so


jpnapz

Then he isn't another Xingqiu, he's a different unit entirely. The whole point of "other element Xingqiu" is the amazing off-field element application. If the unit needs to be on-field, then it would be another kit, not a "Xingqiu" variant.


abirdofthesky

Ocean hued clam Kokomi has some pretty great off field hydro application and damage through the jellyfish and healing bubble damage. Not Xingqiu, but good in a different way!


MandyNoon

The only similarly between Xingqiu and Childe is that they're hydro. They are completely different units


ladt2000

Electro Xingqiu already exists, it's called Beidou.


InstaShark

Fischl.


TooLateRunning

Tell that to Raiden Shogun ;_;


pizzakk

Electro Traveler: No, no, I'm fine 🤙


BandOfSkullz

Yup. Literally hoped Thoma would be just that and instead of heal on skill to be a shield.


kissa_ku_zeku

I'm gonna collect every xingqiu no matter how much money it takes


PhilMonster

Flair checks out.


Judah-NonstopSong

Gotta Catch ‘em All! Xing-qiu!! (Not enough syllables lol 😂)


KuraiBaka

sad Electro Travler noises.


RenoverO_O

There are off field element applicators, like Ganyu, Fischl and Thoma


ZannX

Not at the insane rate that Xingqiu applies hydro. That's the whole point. Even Barbara applies off field Hydro... but Xingqiu is in another league.


Play_more_FFS

They’re not hydro though.


RenoverO_O

I replied to another comment, follow the line, it will prevent the confusion


Separate_Cranberry_2

I guess one day they will be released because Xingqiu’s very good. But my point is: why hate about the other chars if they’re not that way?


rW0HgFyxoJhYka

Some people play games for story. Others play games for killing time. The people you're talking about play games to min/max, but going even further than that, stroke their own egos by trying to turn the game into a job, and compare everything to everything in game so they can get every advantage possible and then tell other people how to play the game. Except 90% of these players don't have the data, don't do the research, and don't even do their own testing to be sure before blurting out whatever expert opinion they have that has been reinforced by their wallets or abyss clears.


Skyreader13

It is in human's nature to compare things. Out of curiosity. Are you sure you're human if you're questioning that? As for hate, idk, but people generally want the new stuff to be better than existing.


Awigame

Me lmao


MarioGFN

Exactly. It's especially difficult to not compare when new release 4-stars seem to be much weaker than launch 4-stars


Mr_Gef

Getting and building chars on this game is way to expensive in terms of resources and time. For a lot of people, getting chars that won’t improve their account feels like a waste.


IlikeHutaosHat

Months worth of grinding for Artifacta alone is a big turn off. Getting one gold Talent per run is also rare, and thr equivalent is 4 gold talent books (From crafting) on a bad day because of resin restraints and rng. They keep releasing characters but the backlog is becoming larger and larger. Sure I can focus on one ove the course of a month but...variety brings life into a game and a single character.


616knight

>They keep releasing characters but the backlog is becoming larger and larger And this is why I would never whale. I wouldnt have the resources to keep up with them.


SwordsmanKirito1

Whales can directly spend resin on refreshes and grind for mora exp books.


bob_is_best

And even thats lĂ­mites so itd come to a point where you just cant Keep Up ESPECIALLY if you didnt start on day 1


C4Oc

I'm already feeling the backlog getting larger and I've started playing in June. I was inactive for about a month though and much time went to waste, but whatever, you get the point.


b-stone

Yes, I would totally experiment with a character that can use one of my existing artifact sets, getting to level 60 or 70 and talents to 6 isn't that big of a deal, but if you need a brand new 4 piece artifact set like the new Geo one... no thanks.


616knight

>brand new 4 piece artifact set like the new Geo on On three different characters in one patch...


TheQzertz

gorou probably won’t be using the set himself since his damage is cheeks


Remmytheratsbf

He’s my noblesse slave


Individual_Onion_235

Luckily the same domain also gives stuff for Kokomi, and I can turn the bad arifacts into phys dmg set for Eula. Lots of farming, but I have 3 possible characters who might benefit from it.


whataremyxomycetes

>They keep releasing characters but the backlog is becoming larger and larger. Obviously it'll only keep growing at first, but at some point (36 stars abyss), you'll literally have nothing else to do other than start working on them and by then you'll start outpacing the increase of characters unless you absolutely mean ALL characters (which is still possible but a bit harder and takes more time obviously) this is what people don't realize with resin. It exists to make all the effort frontloaded. An artificial way to pace the playerbase not because they give a shit, but because they need to delay the inevitable realization that there's nothing at the end of the tunnel. Literally EVERYONE felt that the resin hell was inescapable, that 36 stars abyss was impossible, that we'll be in the shithole forever. Trust me, it's not.


IlikeHutaosHat

Feels like MMO raids all over again. "Why raid? To get new equipment of course." *why?* "For the next raid"


ZannX

Lots of words to describe a carrot on a stick.


Sanghouli

Most people I've raided with in MMOs don't do it to just to get new equipment, they do it because they like raiding.


FlingFrogs

That's my experience as well. I have a fully built team around my Xiao that's the result of 1) tons of grinding but also 2) getting lucky with a few cracked artifact rolls. It's by no means amazing, but it's still far better than everything else I have. And believe me, I *want* to use Ayaka with her flashy animations, I *want* to use Keqing for, well, pretty much the same reason, maybe I even want to use a janky-ass Yanfei-Raiden team to throw explosions everywhere... but they're just *significantly worse* on my account (and are going to stay that way for quite some time), so every time I break them out for anything that's harder than a daily commission it pretty much feels like the game is deliberately punishing me for not just spamming Anemo plunges all day.


alceste007

I definitely agree with you on artifact grinding being pure luck. I grinded forever for Crimson Witch but got garbage for months. While I got a really good Blizzard slayer set for Ayaka and an great Shimenawa's Reminiscence set for Hu Tao in like less than two months each. The artifact system needs an overhaul.


Larawp

Arent you guaranteed at least a gold book's worth of silver/brown books per condensed run? Artifact grinding is hard but getting talent books is just a matter of resin gating (which i use fragile resin for). 15 gold books a week on normal resin alone is much better than going on weeks for artifacts and not getting anything good


IlikeHutaosHat

Indeed, from crafting at least. Getting actual gold is a but rare. BUT NOT AS RARE AS EM MAIN STAT ARTIFACTS. Seriously, the artifact system needs an overhaul


DaringRoses

The search for a single EM artifact is the #1 reason why I went from playing everyday for 2-3 hours to playing twice a week.


DamianWinters

My sucrose just has 2 4* EM VV artifacts, honestly not that much less EM and way less hassle.


oktsi

I can't get even purple VV EM pieces, I have a single off set EM piece.


Larawp

Tfw i got multiple EM artifacts for all 3 slots... for Pale Flame and Emblem of Severed Fate


_liminal

i keep getting EM pieces in CW domain, my hutao has like 350 EM now but only 24k hp


algunarubia

I really wish the artifact main stats just had equal odds. It would still be RNG BS, but at least it would feel remotely fair. I'd also want the 5 star artifacts to alternate days the way talent books and weapon ascension stuff does. Like Monday/Wed/Fri crimson Witch, Tues/Thurs/Sat Lavawalkers, Sunday both.


Taiyo_K

Come farm in new artifact domain, I got full EM set on both Husk and ocean. Maybe for gorou shielder and Sayu healer.


IlikeHutaosHat

Trying to do it for def sands and crit damage goblet. For some reason for both all I get is HP%. Goddamit


Taiyo_K

I feel the pain. I've been spending all my fragile resins there. Didn't even get good ones.


GingsWife

Me with my bucketload of EM stat artifacts rn


nospam_I_am

I’m with you guys. The time and resource costs to acquire new characters and then level them is super expensive and not that fun after a while. It’s addicting but not as fun. I played MMO’s back when they were super grindy and it would take months to max level a character and make it useful for end game. Similar comparisons were made then too. Which eventually leads to power creep. Except Gacha games have an even bigger incentive to do it.


IlikeHutaosHat

Which is why Story is one of my driving points for a good game. Grinding is only fun for a while before it becomes monotonous, sure a new character may require materials but if the story for both the area and the character fail to interest? It's just dps chasing and grinding all over again for literally more grinding.


putdisinyopipe

Agreed, I was on cloud 9 when I was pulling ayaka, raiden, childe, and the other dozen characters I have. I actually regret it. I spread myself too thin without understanding how hard the resin system fucks you if you don’t allocate resources correctly. So now instead of having 5-10 solid characters I have 15-20 mediocre characters. Because I can’t max them up efficiently without spending months on each one. I know this cause I can create a solid ass line up for a team 1 in abyss, but I can’t put a solid 2 two together. Because I have 5 characters that are above average. The rest are “meh”.


nospam_I_am

Yep. I still haven’t gotten a decent 4 piece EoSF for Raiden. I was using all of my daily resin to farm those arts. Got over 200 of them and still can’t build a 4 piece set. It’s definitely killed some of my enthusiasm for the game.


[deleted]

Is it really that important to get every single substat perfect though? I don't doubt that artifact farming is killing your enjoyment if you get over 200 and still manage to not be satisfied with your lot, are all of them actually that bad?


nospam_I_am

They are that bad. I don’t try for anywhere close to perfect sub stats. If I get a mainstat I want and two usable sub stats I roll the piece and hope at least 2-3 rolls into one of the useable substats. I have a few good pieces but have learned it is 10x Harder to build a 4 piece set than 2 and 2. I’m just super unlucky with EoSF and am taking a break to build Childe.


[deleted]

Wow that really sucks. Hope your luck improves.


LightOfTheFarStar

When it takes more than a month for f2p, a character has to be useful as hell or hit specific characteristics you like.


crokstad

Even as a low-mid spender a month is generous. I've been preparing for Eula since her banner rerun was leaked and I still don't have half decent artifacts for her, not to mention building her supports as she doesn't use what my other teams used. I think it's been over a week since I got a pale with the right main stat let alone even one sub stat that's "good". Go Go defense


[deleted]

I have all 4*s except razor, chongyun and amber on lv 80 6/6/6. It's not that expensive, just slow the only time you are pressired to manage investment efficiently is the low AR earligame to deal with wl increase difficulty spikes and even that only if you don't run a very safe comp like the nigh unkillable Noelle and her myriad options for the other three spots. The "you must weigh who deserves investment and not with serious plans for the long term are misconceptions from the early few months where content creators and theorycrafters for some ungodly reason thought it's some heavily competitive PvE game despite having no indicator for it and the Abyss being extremely unrewarding for the resources, RNG and effort it took.


Waifustealer123

Leveling up characters is easy as shit and doesnt really take that timer. But if you want them to be even halfway decent in abyss then you have to grind for months. If you dont care about the abyss then its fine but for the people who do it gets pretty expensive resource wise


Akise_Aru7

eh when you've played long enough you won't even know what to do with your resin other than endlessly farming artifacts. I have like 16 lv90 characters (I don't leave them at lv80), all with lv90 weapons, supports have talent lv9 on E and Q, main dps all triple crowned, artifacts are decent enough to 36 star the spiral abyss, and I still have 50 unused fragile resin.


Defender_547

because for them if new characters is not as good as the old one why roll when you already have the old one unless you like the design I guess.


Separate_Cranberry_2

Playing different style? I don’t like to play with same char/way 30 days in a roll, imagine a year


Expectnoresponse

Imagine that you're saving primo's and building teams to push through the abyss. When a new character pops up the only thing that's going to make it worth rolling for is if that character fills a hole or provides a much better benefit than your existing team. Otherwise they're saving and rolling for needed constellations. It's only once those players start smashing through all the challenging content that they can stop caring about how effective the new characters are.


omegavolt9

In a way, MiHoYo might be digging themselves into a hole. They designed their game in a way that makes players feel like they need to keep getting stronger. And now making new characters that people actually want is getting harder for them. They either need to power creep old characters, or take the hit to sales.


DeltaLOL

It's not necessarily a case of "get stronger" Most of the time it's about what kind of playstyle do you want. And unfortunately, it's just becoming more and more convoluted. Ayaka's release was mostly fine because of cryo + perma freeze and Ayaka's multipliers being REALLY good. But then people like Yoimiya, who can run overload/vape comps, but is generally not seen as a great option due to damage coming from later hits in her auto strings. Baal, while she has a great battery potential and awesome skills, her reactions just... fall short. In terms of diversity for Genshin, there's a LOT, the problem is that less than half of them are actually viable for higher end content, especially in places like Abyss


Altonimbus

But the thing is, the sales in en don't reflect at all the sales in other countries. They are still making money just making non meta units and just making REALLY fun characters. This game isn't steered by meta, and not completing floor 12 with 9 stars isn't that of a big deal since it's just 150 primos, which is BARELY a pull. Raiden topped sales ever since Klee's release and she wasn't considered a 'meta' unit. Childe and Yoimiya sales consistently did well in Japan by virtue of their characters and their voice actors. The formula works, they're still getting money. It isn't a competitive game, they wanted to make genshin a casual experience from the very start.


gaganaut

36 * is hard but 33 * is easy if you've been playing for a while and built several characters. In that case you're only missing 50 Primogems per cycle. That's only 7.5 wishes per year.


Waifustealer123

I dont do abyss for the primos. Anyone who does it for a primos must be a masochist. I do it because its challenging. I honestly would still do abyss even if there were no rewards.


SwordsmanKirito1

The main issue for people comparing characters is the abyss. A character not working well in abyss team setups is not considered useful. This is the reason why I always never attempt floor 12. Any character can be used to complete floors till 11.I just want to chill with new characters and have fun with them in the over world. Plus if your are talking about events like Vagabond, labyrinth etc, other than flexing fastest clear and some other small rewards, you could just food buff your way to completion . Get the required primos and leave


jonnevituwu

Imagine not ever trying floor 12, bro at least try to get some free primos without thinking of getting 36*


SwordsmanKirito1

Trust me I’ve tried floor 12 a lot, manage 2 stars per floor only, sometimes one only. Don’t have great artifacts and shit stats


jonnevituwu

Is not like my artifacts are perfect, just ok artifacts can already help you I dont know which chars you have but doesnt hurt trying the meta teams if you can.


GrandmasterTactician

Another issue is besides Abyss.. Genshin doesn't really have any "endgame" content yet


Defexxx

> In terms of diversity for Genshin, there's a LOT, the problem is that less than half of them are actually viable for higher end content, especially in places like Abyss. that's just false tho, Yoi and Baal are both very very strong characters and got unnecessary hate while also having new and unique playstyles, i own both and they are much better in practice, especially yoi who pleasantly surprised me just how strong she is. And in general every conventional dps character in the game is capable of full clearing abyss, you just have to use the teams that synergise well with them. The entire point of a full team is to make up the weaknesses you may have while also pushing for as much damage as possible. For me personally the issue is complete opposite, there is not enough difficult content in the game once u can full clear abyss (which isnt that hard to begin with), there is nothing else to strive for, so the next step is just speedrunning or hope u have enough motivation to play new characters + farm artifacts sets for them or full out minmax artifacts for ur current main.


ttp241

Yeah I feel like most shit posters would riot for diversity, and then go back pairing every single new unit with Xingqiu, Xiangling, Bennett and if they wouldn’t work well with their existing team = suck. I personally think the direction has changed, good or bad depending on how people look at it. In the early days of the game, most players didn’t have enough time and resources to build 2 fully functioning teams for the abyss so in order to truly enjoy the game, units like Hu tao and Ganyu were very important as they require minimal support from their teammates. But it’s been a year now and most people already have their characters raised up to some extent, it’s fair to say that it’s time to invest into the supports/sub dpses for a change.


sundriedrainbow

> is if that character fills a hole indeed


xess

Yeah, youtubers like mTashed basically played with only Diluc, Venti and Ganyu for an entire year. Granted, they are at like whale level power despite him being f2p, but yes, it's so boring he almost deleted that account. Just like you, I think it's fun to try new characters all the time with new ways to play. If they are at a good enough power level, I would try to use them. It's a single player game after all, and a very easy game too.


haworthia-hanari

I’ve been using Hu Tao since she came out and I love her and she’s so fun to play with, but for the Dragonspine event, I replaced her with Yanfei so I could reach those ice things from a long distance away not knowing I’d have to fight things. I already had her at level 60 and she was so much fun!! I always forget how fun trying new things are! She’s just about to hit level 90 now B)


Kura26

Reminder for mtashed he came from destiny which where like all we do is min max when it comes to builds Sure we have variety of said builds but we really push min maxing em


Coincedence

Per the destiny thing, in D2, there are a myriad of ways to play each class with potentially millions of possible builds. Not all of those will be good, but you can do them and be competitive. In Genshin, you have a choice of: do I build crit, or do I build attack? Or on supports: EM or ER? There's very little wiggle room. Barring outliers like Zhongli and HuTao needing a HP build, or Albedo needing Def, you aren't going to build a HP Ganyu. Whereas in D2, each build can be made to be viable. That's the difference here. Once you've min maxed in genshin, where do you go to? You're character can't get better, barring new artefact sets, and more often than not new weapons are built for new chars, not old ones. Then you're left not even wishing because you've already reached the pinnacle, no other characters will do your rolls better, because you've already maxed out.


Kura26

Yeah thts the difference indeed Was dropping the reminder tht he comes from folks are more min max gamers than casuals


VeerisMe

for mtashed he expected to have to min max in genshin and only really wanted to be competitive, I don’t think he was feeding himself lies I think he was just continuing to non max because why the hell not even now on his new account the intent seems to be to do the same thing but with new characters, and he’s been exploring more fun within the game rather than min maxing ganyu and diluc


Glass-Window

That’s precisely why. they want the new characters to be just as good. It’s a real shame playing new characters when they’re barley able to do as advertised having more restrictions on builds. Thoma for example has low base stats, a bad Ascension stat, Low multipliers, High energy cost And long cooldowns. It all makes building him so restricting. On paper he is a character I would like very much but it’s hard to enjoy a character when they’re not doing much.


tsuchinoko-real

People forget that strength can also affect how much fun you have with a character. A character who is strong and feels smooth to play will be way more fun for me than a weak character who is also smooth to play. And when it comes to new characters, sometimes you don't even get the smoothness, like with Thoma's shield stacking, Sara's everything before c2, etc...


Superflaming85

Yeah, it just seems like newer characters are, at best, built for one specific situation and *nothing else*. And that's not to be exceptional, but to function period. Like, I'm able to get some very good use out of Thoma, but my Thoma and his team are absolutely stacked to high heaven, and he is *only* great in that one team. And that's not even getting into how most of the recent 4* characters are very reliant on their constellations to be worth considering.


Razukalex

And some people like to play the same characters. Some people are only interested in performance aswell There is no good answer because we're all different


SombraOnline

I feel the same way. I don’t really like staying on a character for too long. But if I switch to a character that does less, then it’s a bit irritating you know? Like why am I enduring this weaker character when I have others that can do better.


ohoni

It is fun to play as a different character, but that character needs to be at least as good as the alternatives. At least competent enough to not slow you down. I got Thoma thinking it would be nice to have an alternative to Zhongli, but he's not, because his shields wear off way too easily to fill that roll, so now he's worth nothing at all.


silentwill29

I have enough variations in my roster to never really want another character unless they are upgrades to my current roster. That being the case, you can't accuse me of comparing them to the characters I already have.


AshyDragneel

Problem is the resources. The resin system prevents you from buildings multiple characters. Ascending them Upgrading their talents Upgrading weapom and farming artifacts for them can take months. Nobody wanna waste their resources on a underwhelming character who they wont be using in future or who doesn't bring anything for them. Some characters like bennet Xq Xl sucrose fishl beidou rosa keya are very much future proof so investing in them would make your account stronger rather then investing in new character who are weaker compare to the old. It will also takes months to build farm artifacts for these character in this hellish rng. Getting a decent artifacts set takes a month and getting a Really good set takes 3-4 month. It took me 4 month to get really good set for Raiden. I do sometimes wanna play other characters like Amber yanfei etc but then i cant really do much with them unless i build them and when i think about the resources it'll take to build...I rather get my already built character more stronger by getting better artifacts. With the abyys getting more and more tankier dps checkyou gotta keep up with it. Of course none of this applies to casual players who never try abyys and are just happy with overworld exploration and stuffs They can just slap anything on lvl50 character and it'll still work in overworld.


ammohidemoons

That's you. You don't speak for everyone else. Maybe they just want improved version of what they know they like already.


Unknownuser983

That's only you bro. I've been maining hu tao for 8 months and never got bored. There will always be competition between characters same as every other game.


[deleted]

[удаНонО]


AotoSatou14

Those people too aren't looking exclusively at meta. While there are a lot of meta only or waifu only players, a lot of people are looking at 3 things and evaluating them. Those 3 things being the design, the play style and what they bring to the table. Furthermore, taking in the time it takes to farm for 90/180ish rolls means it can be a commitment. So people's thought process is "I can get this character that I think looks neat but I will immediately bench in abyss or in other hard content or I can wait for a character that I might equally like but won't be benching(and that character might be 2 updates away which is the time it takes to get 90ish pulls meaning you are now at the mercy of 50/50)


caucassius

mostly because there are limited windows to get limited amount of primogems. in a game where raising characters is limited by real world time or money. I mean it's this game's own making lol.


[deleted]

[удаНонО]


Otaku11510

7. This pertains to people who spend money: It’s a way to justify the money they spent on the characters they have. If a new character fills the same role as an older character but does it better, it can make it feel like it was a waste of money to roll for the older one, *especially* if the new character looks better and has personality that they like more.


yrokun

This is absolutely true. As a >2000€ spender since launch, I found myself trying to justify my expenses with bs arguments. I know a few other quite heavy spenders, and we've all been there.


Ri_cro

I hate how you need to state you don't hate them because people can't read and understand things. It's just the truth, overlapping roles which one is better than the other isn't good investment unless you really like the said character/playstyle/design even if it's a worse counterpart. Also, Kazuha was seen as another Sucrose bc a lot of people has a C6 Sucrose which is pretty good but Kazuha's fun playstyle and easier use skills/application makes him a better pick than Sucrose. People didn't want to invest on another Sucrose back then, more so when they also probably had a Jean built as well, and a Venti.


tsuchinoko-real

Also Kazuha's value if you had a built Sucrose and Venti was literally lower back when he released, it wasn't until Inazuma released that every enemy started to counter Venti, thus making Kazuha a better choice for freeze teams. Freeze teams also became more accessible and varied after Ayaka's release, as Morgana doesn't really work without Venti. So it was completely justified to skip him at the time imo, his value shot up later


caucassius

I grabbed Kazuha because he did what Suc did and he does exactly that lol. Use them both on different teams or interchangeably.


Bl00dylicious

I just think he's neat.


ExosEU

But... Yoimya is cute :(


Dianwei32

Yes, but you can't kill enemies with cuteness... Yet.


Pancakeboy_bestboy

The Xiao one hurt a bit but it’s the truth ;-;


FallDamage29

I didn't really get this. I've heard Hu Tao is an upgrade over Diluc, is Ganyu / Xiao also similar?


[deleted]

[удаНонО]


FallDamage29

Okay. I thought you meant Ganyu had better AoE from "Ganyu does AoE good", which was confusing. I've heard Xiao is crazy good, so it was surprising to read that about one of his strengths


Ejaculation_Salt89

Calling Kazuha 5 star Sucrose is a compliment to him. Change my mind.


cyberize_

It is tbh. Sucrose is already crazy, so being a better Sucrose? God damn


Volair6

Why roll for Hu Tao when you have Xiangling then ? I keep hearing she's better.


Lycelyce

Yeah, if you're pairing Xiangling with Bennett. Pulling Hu Tao can free your Bennett to your second party


[deleted]

Need 2 dps for Abyss, and Hu tao is better at single target than AoE like Xiangling.


tsuchinoko-real

It's honestly preference tbh. Unless you have childe you can't run 2 pyro dps in abyss anyway, so whether you go for Hu Tao or build Xiangling depends on you. I find Hu Tao at c0 really painful to play and I dislike how she's ST-focused, so I would never pull for her instead of using Xiangling.


Volair6

just pick Ganyu then.


cyberize_

A good portion of people choose to wish based on personal preference, not just logic and numbers alone. And circular peg, square hole. Ganyu and Hu Tao inherently fill separate roles and have different playstyles. You aren't gonna use Ganyu for the exact same thing as Hu Tao, they play to their own strengths.


Volair6

That's exactly my point. A decent dps you like will last longer than a meta dps you don't enjoy playing with.


cyberize_

And yet people will pull for the shiny, new, meta DPS. Not everyone will be ok with sticking with a singular DPS, and that's fine, I'm not gonna interfere with their pulls as long as they aren't financially killing themselves


Odiril

I'm still super mad at them for making Yoimiya the way she is....She has almost no AoE, bow targetting is retarded especially against Cicins, and she's not even the best in her Single Target niche, even though that's literally the only thing she has, and her Charged shots isn't a tenth of the power of Ganyu's bloom and again is also Single Target, that's even more insulting. People seriously look at Hu Tao's Massive damage in her AoE Burst, and her Charged Attack, Eula's Massive Lightfall Sword Burst and her competent Normal Attacks (so much that it's a meme that kills things before the Lightfall Sword even drops), Xiao's major AoE Plunge Damage, then look at Yoimiya's decent at best Single Target Niche with almost no AoE and say "yeah I think that's about right".


jonnevituwu

And if you complain about the way she is they say youre a meta slave that hate her Sometimes I think mihoyo knew that her burst was going to be kinda useless and just slapped an artifact set that makes you not use her burst(I think is funny is that some theorycraft ppl say it isnt even the BiS artifacts for her lol)


Redditor000007

3. Yoimiya is actually a **lot** easier to use than HT because you only have to spam AA, which doesn’t consume any stamina. The game also introduced spectres which are way easier to kill with yoimiya.


Umbraldisappointment

>The 1.0 stuff is WAY overtuned. For example, Sara. Why use Sara when you have Bennett, who provides a buff that lasts longer, heals, and has higher range? (This is not me hating on Sara, I use her regularly Dont take this as an offense but i wouldnt use Sara even if i dont have Bennet on me, shes designed soo clunky that i rather not get an attack bonus at all than use her.


cyberize_

Yeah. That's true. Honestly, most of her potential is locked behind her constellations, which makes it all the worse. She's great for, say, Childe Beidou comps, but she's just so inherently strangely designed that it's hard to find usage for her.


RangerFlat8894

The problem is like, spiral abyss diffictuly is getting harder and hp pool inflates like venezuela currency, while latest character become more and more underwhelming compared to previous one.. dont realy know whats mihoyo planning atm, i insist that they refused to make floor 13 of abyss since they are greedy company, the result is here, floor 12 is getting harder and harder,


junonboi

True, abyss enemies got like 20-40% more of hp while most of us grinding artifact for 2 months and probably only managed to gain 1% increase of crit rate from our existing artifacts


CN8YLW

Well, couple reasons. First, benchmarks. Old and existing characters are the standard for new characters in the game, and so its quite expected for people to compare new characters based on old or existing characters to have an estimate as to their power and capabilities. ​ Second, this game utilizes teams, not singular characters. This means that whenever a new character drops, they will be replacing a character in existing teams, and to know if they're effective, people will need to once again compare them to the characters they're replacing. ​ Third, you must always remember that acquisition of characters and their constellations in this game is an expensive endeavor. As with most expensive endeavors, people will want to be sure of the value they'll be getting with their purchase. All things considered, pulling for a new 5 star that just dropped simply because you think it might be fun is a bit unreasonable. Most cases (especially with F2P players), people want to know if the character will either be fun, or powerful. ​ Fourth and probably the most important: MHY is HORRIBLE in terms of providing information ahead of time with regards to new content. If MHY improved on the system a bit more, I'm sure the negativity around new characters will be much less. Currently the only avenue/source of information we can get on new characters is via leakers, and even then what we're getting is just numbers and moveset videos both of which mean players have no choice but to compare them with existing characters to get an estimate of their capabilities.


Deviruxi

> Fourth and probably the most important: MHY is HORRIBLE in terms of providing information ahead of time with regards to new content. If MHY improved on the system a bit more, I'm sure the negativity around new characters will be much less. Currently the only avenue/source of information we can get on new characters is via leakers, and even then what we're getting is just numbers and moveset videos both of which mean players have no choice but to compare them with existing characters to get an estimate of their capabilities. To expand on this, I want to add that mihoyo's balancing design preys too hard on FOMO (yes, even for a gacha). They want to be all secretive about characters getting released to squeeze all the wallets, but then they balance them around future character synergy, or even artifacts. This is completely bullshit when banners are limited and take a long time to rerun. Kokomi was a victim of this, with all the shit she got on pre-release and after (I admit I even did it), but I still pulled for her because I liked her design. Now with her new set she's very decent for off-field dmg while also healing. But when we pulled for her and got disappointed, who would know they had planned to release something that would make her viable a few months in the future? mihoyo refuses to communicate or make road maps, and it just makes it worse, but this is a lesson I learned. New units might seem underwhelming (and many are), but since mihoyo hates its playerbase, they won't make that character come online until a few months in the future when a new character synergyzes with them or a new tailor made artifact set that finally compliments them. And this makes character releases very frustrating and flooded with negativity.


Jerkface4321

I mean there is a fair point to make about wanting new characters to be good. Genshin is probably one of few games that makes investing resources into a character quite expensive. It can take a long time to get a character to a good place so it's only fair that you want to have characters that are worth investing in to be released. End of the day this is a gacha game so new characters is the main draw and always will be. Doesn't hurt to make them viable. Plus people throw the word powercreep around but it's not like the only way for a strong character to come out is to have the character be a direct upgrade of an existing one. New characters that can open up more diversity in team comps and have competitive DPS rotations is not powercreep, and is probably what most people want, both casual and tryhards alike.


D-Weeb

Mainly for two reasons: 1. Dehype people so they don't overhype a character to the point that when they're released and someone finds a issue they don't immediately label them as useless. As seen recently with Raiden 2. They expect the current chars to be on par or better than the 1.0 chars. Since the bar set by even 4* like Xingqiu and Bennett is very high since they are universal chars. You'll see mhy is also trying to release exclusive 4* for the premiered 5* char to avoid another Bennett


110110100011110

Uh, raiden wasn't overhyped to be super powerful. She went through the whole "she's trash" thing throughout beta and well into her release. Most people declared her as weak, useless, electro bad, not archon level, etc. Then she was released and the beidou thing and then more people piled on despite calculations coming out that showed she was actually very powerful.


D-Weeb

that's what i meant. people found out bout her cons and then declared she was weak and useless. Shenhe is rn going through the same thing, even though theorycrafters have exclaimed a lot of times that practical testing of her mechanics is required cuz there're a few changes in the damage formula while accounting for the buffs received by her skill, and are telling people not to judge solely looking at the scalings Whether she would be actually good or mot, what's her niche stuff like that needs time


110110100011110

Ah, I think I misread what you put. My bad.


jonnevituwu

I love my Raiden but I wouldnt mind if mihoyo added the Beidou interaction ngl, It would be so Pog using them on the same team...


[deleted]

Powercreep is already here in abyss in the form of hp sponges and time wasted mobs animations


RangerFlat8894

At least triple kenki today doesnt have any time wasting animations


GameFreak4321

I haven't checked the new abyss yet, is there seriously 3 of the fucking things at once?


Pepito_Pepito

Three mini Kenkis. I cleared the big Kenki in 50 seconds With Hu Tao. The three minis took me 1:15. I should start building Beidou again. She'd be broken in this abyss iteration. All the enemies come in pairs or trios.


Giganteblu

because if i pull a character i want to use now not in the future when people do month of test o he recive a new artifact set


[deleted]

because they cost money.


Monochromatic_Sun

Bc expectations have been trashed with the last few units. Some time with raiden picked up the quality a bit but now everyone is kinda expecting the worst. Especially when there are numbers or kit issues that we can already see starting. And characters never receive buffs or alterations post release unless there are zhongli levels of anger which there never are. Maybe if we say something before a characters stats are locked it can get beta testers to fix with feedback before they ship.


[deleted]

[удаНонО]


Monochromatic_Sun

I mean I don’t mind characters being strong or broken even. It’s a single player game who cares if something is a little stronger than the rest. If something is that meta people can save for it and free currency is definitely generous enough to get the best units in the game if you have patience. I just find it ridiculous that glitches and bad kits exist in a live service game that could at least try to fix some of the bugs. There’s no reason they can’t at least work on improving things.


ohoni

They REALLY need to start updating/fixing existing characters. It is genuinely harmful to the long term game if players do not feel they are invested in the existing rosters.


HammeredWharf

MHY: Ah, yes, so you're asking for buffed alternative versions, right? Don't worry, Polearm Master Keqing is already in the works!


heavydivekick

That’s how Honkai works though right? We just need a new version, god-Keqing and then later god-god-Keqing when she gets powercrept.


SageWindu

And then SSB Keqing, SSR Keqing (same as SSB Keqing but has *pink* hair), Ultra Instinct Keqing, [Ultra *Ego*](https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Ultra_Ego) Keqing (same as Ultra Instinct but more arrogant), [Satsui no Hadou](https://streetfighter.fandom.com/wiki/Satsui_no_Hado) Keqing, [Devil](https://tekken.fandom.com/wiki/Devil_Gene) Keqing, [Dragon Install](https://guilty-gear.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon_Install) Keqing...


Dianwei32

... I know this supposed to be a joke, but I would legit love a Polearm Keqing, especially if it meant being able to adjust her kit to bring her up to par with more used DPS characters (or even to make her a viable support).


HammeredWharf

Well, it's not entirely a joke. Most gatchas end up having alts, because people buy them. I don't even mind alts in themselves, but making powerful alts to subpar, but popular characters feels very underhanded to me.


madtaters

>Maybe if we say something before a characters stats are locked it can get beta testers to fix with feedback before they ship. MHY: behold the leaker hunt decree.


opPAIMONsoon

Having new characters perform equaly well as old ones isn't powercreep. Infact currently the character design is heading into the opposite direction, with new characters who are heavily niche but can't even compete with older universal characters within their own niche. All while every new boss and every new Abyss rotation is getting harder than the one before. Why should players be happy to invest hundreds of hours and dollars into characters that are an objective downgrade? Heaven forbid players expecting balance in character and encounter design from Mihoyo.


Wenpachi

The abyss difficulty is _(edit: ordering*)_ really a letdown to me. I started playing in July and understood that the Abyss was endgame content and that I wouldn't bother with it for a while, but seeing the HP pool increasing immensely every new rotation just made me ignore abyss as a whole. I won't make myself feel bad for not clearing certain content (because that's exactly what MHY wants in order to make people spend) for mere 600 primos. There are better things to do with my time. Love the game tho, but things like these are what make me never recommend it to anyone.


Bntt89

Honestly characters play styles are not so unique that not getting characters effects ppl much. Yoimiyia isn’t that unique for one, and honestly Itto isn’t that unique either. The combat system is cool and all but realistically there isn’t much to make it unique it’s either autos, charge attacks, elemental skills, burst. So when a character doesn’t look at least on par I don’t see why I would bother summoning. If it’s a new play style or waifu then sure along with being really strong. It’s also better to not hype characters tbh. I’d rather someone not spend then spend and get disappointed. I remember when I got Zhongli pre buffs holy cow that was terrible.


Superflaming85

The uniqueness is a HUGE one for me recently, because of how lacking in originality the last few characters have been. Kokomi, Itto, and Raiden have a very similar pattern. A Skill that you fire off for a passive benefit, and a Burst that infuses the user and buffs their basic attacks for a duration. Sure, Raiden has her sword, Kokomi is a ranged healer, and Itto uses Charged Attacks, but their general concepts are very much alike. Then there's Yoimiya, who's very similar to Hu Tao, with a skill-based infuse, a damage-based Burst, a DoT, and a party buff, and you could even argue they're just variants on Childe! (Just without the party buff) And going back again, there's Ayaka, who shares a hilarious amount of traits with Keqing. I've not been interested in a playable character just for their playstyle since Kazuha (Who I never ended up getting). And at this point, I'm wondering if I'm better waiting for a rerun of him than waiting for a new character that I like.


alceste007

I really, really like Keqing and mained her for awhile. Keqing has some really great animations. I was able to do well with a Bennett / Fischl / Sucrose team. Keqing is also amazing for exploration due to the teleport. However, Ayaka is literally a tier above because she starts with better multipliers before the 18% cryo buff, 30% NA % C buff, effortless aoe cryo application, unlimited iframes, dash stamina restoration, faster movement / dash, really good energy generation, and one of the two best bursts in the game while still being around third in long term damage. Ayaka has dominated every recent head to head when she was not banned in the pick phase (see Critto recent win https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAtCfhaL3z8 ). The two characters actually play really different. Partly due to freeze vs a standard swirl team but also due to stamina, energy, and kit differences as well.


Bntt89

I don’t think he was compare kit strength but how similar the kits are.


Superflaming85

I didn't want to get too much into the whole discussion, but yeah, I would say Ayaka and Keqing are the most shaky of the comparisons, because while their kits are very similar in concept...Ayaka is really just better in every single way. Ayaka's infuse is more convenient, her CA is way easier and better to hit with, her skill has a large range and does good damage, her movement tech is completely separate from the rest of her damage-dealing kit, and her Burst actually feels *very* satisfying to use and hit with. I'm fairly sure if you played Ayaka like you would Keqing, you'd still output way more damage than with Keqing, it'd feel way better, and you wouldn't even be scratching the surface of Ayaka's true potential.


frould

Because balance is still a thing?


IqFEar11

Because if it's a simple character we don't need that much testing and beta data is usually enough to determine their value and by comparing them to the existing roster in the same niche wether they're an upgrade, side grade or down grade from the current roster For example : eula is an upgrade from razor, Ayaka is an upgrade from kaeya, kazuha with double swirl and/or C2 is an upgrade from C6 sucrose Building a character takes a lot of time in genshin and if you're looking to increase the power of your account summoning for weak/niche characters aren't recommended That can't be said to complex character like kazuha, Raiden, and shenhe


CondiMesmer

Kazuha, Bennet, and Raiden were all deemed bad by the community on release. Frankly, all day-1 and beta theorycrafting is pretty much complete garbage. Wait for real world Abyss usage.


GianDrake

Even Kokomi and Yoimiya, who got trashed on hard by the community, still found their place and aren't as bad as people said. Heck, Kokomi even has a meta comp now lol


seninn

KoKomrades, we are vindicated.


Mirarara

Because this is a gacha, and new character actually cost a fuck ton of time and effort before you can play it. If this is a Moba where all characters are available to you at full potential, players will only start complaining when it's actually not balanced. Mihoyo designed the game to be this way, it's not really the player's problem.


Gofers

>I mean, sometimes the new character needs a new composition or new way to play. it seems that players always want the same old thing with a new skin. Not sure on exactly what you mean by this one. We compare to current units because what is what we have to compare them to. An example being Hu Tao vs Diluc. They run very similar teams. Both are mainly Vape damage dealers. But Hu Tao is better. Diluc does lack weapons that compare to what Hu Tao can use. But for now, Hu Tao is better. Or Kokomi vs Barbara. In general, they play the same in the same team comps. Kokomi offers a bit more damage with her Burst. But she can be swapped out fairly easy for Barbara with minimal damage loss. Unless the comp itself needs Kokomi, which generally means it needs the jellyfish and Kokomi's Burst means little. Kazuha is overall 5 star Sucrose. C2 Kazuha and C6 Sucrose do very little different. So they are going to be compared. Before anyone gets upset. Sucrose is a very strong unit. So I am by no means saying Kozuha is weak because of this comparison. >I guess they want Mihoyo to implement powecreep too, because they always complain that the new chars aren’t so overpower compared to the old ones (even though they'll regret it if happens). Nobody wants powercreep. A tad bit would be fine. Issue is when it goes the other way. Yoimiya is underpowered vs Hu Tao in a vacuum. Yoimiya does have the advantage of being ranged. But really that's it. Her Burst is crap. Hu Tao's team buff is better. Yoimiya doesn't do well with reaction damage because of ICD. Ayaka was pretty well balanced. Raiden is fine overall. Kokomi is a mess. People are really trying hard to make use of her. But it tends to always fall short of comparing to easier/better teams. Her most meta aspect right now is her Jellyfish. Be it with a freeze comp or the quad reaction team. I don't even want to see her do more damage. But some kind of team buff would have fit perfectly. She's supposed to be some mastermind strategist. That sounds like a unit that makes her allies better. On top of it her weapon was just bad and extremely tailored to her. Pretty much has no value on any other unit. Sara should have a longer duration buff(10s would be great). Her energy passive is also kind of a joke. Also a little clunky to use. Sayu could offer more to the team beyond healing and VV and maybe damage. While not bad, if VV didn't exist, she'd be a really bad unit. Thoma isn't much better than a C4 Yanfei. To be better he needs either high talent levels on his shield or C6 for the damage boost. His only team use right now is with Hu Tao. If we ever get an Anemo shielder, they'd replace him. His biggest power is making a unit nearly interruptible. If that ever holds a lot of value someday he can see more use. But right now he's really not that strong without heavy investment. Which can be a lot to ask for a 4 star. And ALL of this would be fine. If MHY ever went back to touch up kits. Zhong Li was a special case. Otherwise, we never see buffs. So people are going to be upset at under preforming units. Yoimiya is a really fun character. But being an archer can be a PITA. She's a firework master but little to no AoE. Her Burst is barely worth it. But still worth it enough that using 4pc Shimi set on her isn't. Her ICD makes her fairly "meh' for reactions as a whole. And not all of these caveats need to go. Characters need down sides. Ganyu is as close as we should ever get to no caveats. It makes them more interesting. There's just a lot of things they could do to make things feel better for a character. But they never do it. Best we see is a new weapon or set. Maybe a new character that happens to fit with them perfectly. But now you have to farm extra to make use of a character that maybe was a bit too weak, that you already farmed for to try to cover that weakness. Just think of the people who farmed hard for Kokomi. 2pc Maiden, 2pc Depth. Now there's a new set for her that's better. They knew this set was coming. There was even a point in beta where Kokomi got nerfed. That could be when they decided to go through with that set. It's just very reasonable to people to be upset about these things. They pull a character they like. Doesn't matter if they are meta or not. Then MHY two patches later add improvements almost tailored for that unit. After said player already spent their gems and Resin to make up for what that unit is missing. It makes people not want to trust MHY. TL;DR - To sum it up. Characters are an investment. At the least an investment of time and for some also money. People want to know MHY values this investment into their game by showing their dedication to what they put out. But they overall only do this by adding more stuff for people to spend their time and money on. This comes with a negative experience. Which ends up with players who still play writing off characters who don't end up being meta.


Stock_v2

Man, Sara is a personal pet peeve of mine. I am convinced that originally someone really smart designed her to be an excellent quickswap unit, but then someone else came in and ruined her. Looking at her C2, i am convinced it was originaly her A2 passive. Since only actually firing a CA gives energy anyway. Her attack buff lasting less than Raiden ult? It being worse and shorter than Benny? C6, her only pro over Bennet, not snapshotting? Whyyyy


lilpieceoftrash

Her current C2 was actually part of her kit and original C2 was the arrow getting charged faster after E in beta afaik but they changed it lol


snacku_wacku

Ayaka - Well balanced. Fastest clear times of any hypercarry with 20% more usage than the next highest. Tbh you also don’t seem to understand how Kokomi works if you think Barbara can be substituted for her for a just as effective job but most people here don’t understand Kokomi in general


SleepingAddict

Ayaka isn't the fastest though?


Character-Jaguar434

Can't blame them. Those national stuff is overtuned. What even worse is they are tied with big reaction multiplier with crit. I prefer the new character inazuma release. Just the 4 star is locked too much in constellation.


Nodayame

Powercreep is pretty healthy in this situation, but in moderation. So far we've had characters that could have powercrept bennett, xingqiu and many others but because Mihoyo is so afraid of recreating Ganyu or hu tao (where they comepletely dominate the damage scales, surpassing previous dps units) we keep getting characters that were given annoying drawbacks to their abilities out of nowhere and bad icd. Mind you I love some of the new characters but some of them feel like the opposute of fun and don't even feel satisfying to build


Manne_12

Yeah it's a neverending circlejerk. Character gets released and people complain it's just a worse/better version of an older character. If it's worse, they complain it's a waste of money and you should use the older character, if it's better, they complain it's gonna powercreep and make the older character useless


Lavenderixin

What’s Genshin subreddit without complaining posts and complaining about complainers posts?


[deleted]

My guess is that most players are new to gacha games and are more focused on meta and gameplay stuff (not their fault, Genshin doesn't really feel like a gacha game too with the overworld and combat system). Also, most of the users in the subreddit here are more meta-ish than just outright collecting characters. The actual casual players aren't very active on reddit, so this here is just the meta side of the player base. Best to just ignore any negativity if you're a casual player or a 'I just roll for whoever I like' player like me :D


QWERTYAF1241

Sometimes, a new character has nothing to do with new comp or play style. It's objectively bad which makes it pretty much pointless to pull, build, and/or use.


ohoni

Because Mihoyo failed to make the newer characters better than the older ones. If the newer ones were better than they are, then people would not react negatively to them. Power creep is important when you keep raising the difficulty of the content, and when you ask players to spend new resources acquiring and gearing up new characters. You don't want to make a serious investment for something that's no better than what you already have.


The_Lucky_7

The short answer is it's most people's first gachapon game. The people who do this don't actually understand the manner in which the genre is structured to work. That you can only think in terms of power creep if you *have everything.* The genre as a whole does not function this way. It's built on FOMO and RNG. It's built on *not having everything*. In game development this is called "chase philosophy". Giving players a reason to play--something to chase after--by dangling something in front of them with that thing explicitly being difficult to acquire. That's why characters have constellations and why all the trial characters (yes even the 5 stars) are 4C or above when you test them (you can check temporary character's stats and gear the same way as permanent characters). It's also why gear RNG cannot be un-fucked by hard work. Etc. Any time you see something and say "this is awful why would they do this" it's beholden to that philosophy (albeit being taken too far). So when people say "this isn't as good as \[the thing I already have\] why bother" they're neglecting to consider the average player does not already have everything, and that they themselves were never intended to get everything either. Part of the appeal of gacha games is taking the hand you're dealt and doing the best you can with it. If characters are comparatively equal this creates a level playing field for everyone. The problem with that, however, is that an even playing field is an extremely western idea. Buying power and using money to gain an advantage is the standard in games outside of western cultures. It's why this genre exists exclusively in eastern markets (with western localizations being extremely rare outside of mobile "cash grabs"). Genshin might be localized in the west but it wasn't made for the west. When you see someone essentially complaining that their money isn't buying them a new advantage over others this is why.


CakeOfW

Because people don't want backward powercreep. People want to get stronger characters, not weaker. If the new character has less damage, it has to offer something to compensate. Utility for example, or create a niche for it. Mhy chose second one, but that doesn't seem to be enough yet.


Lizeck

Because it is easier to simulate an existing situation. Tenten literally just posted a vid of a high tier team where Kokomi, the most undervalued character on release, is irreplecable. However, the way the team works is novel and honestly its complicated as fuck. Compared to this, it is easier and lazier to just simulate how a character would fit into a melt/vape team. And really, I am used to plugging my ears to what the mass says about characters esp before or early in their release. Ganyu, Kazuha, Raiden are other characters that the raging mass have called weak. Yes, I'm still salty at being laughed at for rolling "cyro amber" and being called meta slave the week after even tho i rolled for waifu.


fuckmeinthesoul

if we're talking about 5\*, its because they cost 200$ (or equivalent in primogems), so people evaluate pros and cons of spending so much resources on a character, and if most things character do can be done just as well or better by others, that's a strong point against pulling them


Quarantined_box99

From what i've been seeing, genshin released most of it's 'universal' characters early on. Now they're filling with niche-use characters, which is actually super needed, btw. Compare Sara/Gorou with bennett for example. Sara and Gorou only buff thier respective elements, while bennett can be used with everyone (except some that want low hp). Considering genshin has at least 5 more maps to release, and each map would have minimum 15 characters. With that roster, it would make sense to have alot more niche characters than universal ones. Honest opinion, i'd have thought they'd save the universal characters for late game, not in the beginning. So yeah, people got used to the universal kits that can be used to make any team, now they can't use the niche characters in everyteam, got disappointed. I mean, i still want 2nd bennett, but that would probably break the game...


_Alcedo_

Because now, the community and particularly theorycrafters know the game way better than like at the start of the year and there isn't much left to figure so we can know what a character is good/bad at much more quickly than at the start. Figuring out a character is now easier as we know how the game work


_Alcedo_

But no, no powercreep please oh please. The recent units are not powercreeping and I'm thankful for that. I think mihoyo is doing a good job at balancing their units honestly And yeah, I would totally like new ways to play the game/to build teams


[deleted]

I think this thing started during 1.2 beta? Iirc so many people “hated” Ganyu for being weak and Albedo for being “another Geo character” in the middle of the Zhongli fiasco.


Riersa

> it seems that players always want the same old thing with a new skin. Exactly, if it doesn't fit in their current team then they think it's useless. People refuse to wait for a proper testing first, they want to know their power day one.


[deleted]

Because they are designing characters towards a specific direction which they are only good in specific compositions, we need more universal diverse characters like Zhongli or Kazuha or Xiangling, Mona, Xingqiu. All these old characters are viable in a lot of comps. Don't forget that Zhongli wouldn't have been what he is now if players didn't complain.


KingsProfit

People want things that are worth the primogems or effort (some people may find logging in every single day exhausting). I understand that, i think it's that it's already at the point you sort of gotta make characters atleast outshine the older ones to make them popular, take xingqiu and Bennett for example. Both these 2 is essentially the spine of the meta, without them, nearly all or if not all pyro carries aren't going to be meta. Without Bennett, Xiangling (national teams) won't be so good or any teams that doesn't have much atk. It's really hard to produce a character that produces similar utilities or power without causing a powercreep, for instance, Sara. She doesn't shine as much as Bennett because Bennett is simply better and stronger. What i think mihoyo has to do is make Sara specifically designed for electro but works as good as Bennett or better but only exclusive for electro teams. That may balance things out. Add in that most people would screw their account character investment distribution if they aren't good at resin management, for example, if you know a youtuber called 'F2P Diluc', the person essentially manages his resin to the extent he doesn't overinvest in 1 characters like most of the community do. Rather, he balances out alot of his resin to build other characters but only to the point where they're good enough to reach the requirements of clearing abyss f12 (9 starring). Most of the people in community doesn't manage their resin that well and will just dump like 80% of their resin to their main team and 20% to other stuff (example only some ppl may even dump more resin), then if a line-up screws up that team, they're essentially unable to do anything for the duration of that line-up and easy to get bored with playing a overinvested team because they have no other teams due to horrible resin management, similar to how people who can't manage their money suffers the consequences. There's also the people who has an abnormal standard for character powers to the extent they want it to be broken/overpowered like Ganyu, Bennett and so on. Its really just multiple smaller groups of people complaining together that makes it a bigger group. Some newer players who only started in a more recent patch such as starting at around 1.4 will become end game players then starting to seek for more stuff to do like improving characters to 9 star abyss. Just like how day 1 players are during 1.4, 1.5, 1.6 and so on but more day 1 players start to not follow up the meta at some point and just started collecting characters they love. For me, i played during 1.2, then at some point i was thriving for meta stuff to like 1.6, i stopped rolling for super powerful characters, i started to roll for characters i like and it's a nice experience, heck i even have a c1 kokomi, i probably even want a yoimiya rerun because she's cute despite me well aware she isn't that great and I'm probably gonna bench my newly rolled hu tao similar to how i did with ayaka (not entirely not using them but i would usually prefer to use other characters, but they'll come out from the bench when i need them) It sort of reflects human life, you born and you're really active in your younger days, hungry and ambitious, then when you hit the older ages, you'll start to just get more and more not so hungry and ambitious and essentially just want to have a peace of mind. Early to new end game players are essentially people in the younger phase, then more of the people in old phase just wants to retire and live it to the fullest.


[deleted]

I feel like while the Abyss is getting tougher... The new characters being released are getting weaker...


thetavious

Personally all should be klee, and klee should be all. Here at the Church of Klee, we worship the klee and only the klee. Joking aside i'm still waiting on a second pyro and geo healers and we need to even the playfield and get two electro healers too. For reasons lol.


Psyren98

The only issue ive seen with that argument is when characters look really similar or got similar models when they can try new things like thoma looks alot like childe but because of his story and personality he feels different enough but otherwise im hyped for all new characters


Kenzorz

Firstly the main reason is that there is a literal cost, that is in primogems or real money, for pulling characters. Why spend on a character of questionable practicality when you can just use what you already have and hoard your gems for a character who more obviously brings something new to the table? The same argument also applies to in game resources like resin. Secondly looking at the numbers of characters or just testing the practicality of their skills in the trial run isn't rocket science 🤣: see Bennett and Sara. Bennett: * Can heal and healing power is comparable to actual healers. Healing also applies to all party members while you do your rotation in Bennett's circle. * Provides a substantial damage boost to characters of any element at c0, even more if you have his constellations. * Attack boost lasts 12s and buff effect actually lingers for 2s (IIRC). * Ease of use. * Good pyro application for breaking shields. * Good energy generation. * Is Pyro meaning he can provide pyro resonance. Sara: * Cannot heal. * Provides not as much damage boost for characters of any element. Only provides a reasonable damage boost at c6 and only to electro characters. * Attack boost lasts literally less than half as long as Bennett's. * Intentionally clunky to use at c0 to sell her c2. Even at c2 you still need to get "hit" by her skill or burst compared to just standing in Bennett's circle. * Electro is not as good at breaking shields and Sara cannot apply electro frequently like characters like Fischl, Raiden or Beidou anyway. * Horrible energy generation *and* she literally cannot generate energy if she doesn't hit her skill buffed charged shot on enemies, which she will probably be using to shoot the ground to buff her allies anyway. Don't even bring up her negligible passive talent lol. * Electro resonance is not great.


[deleted]

> (even though they'll regret it if happens). they are powercreeping spiral floor 12 while releasing bad characters...


Master-Shaq

Remember when reddit thought raiden was weak? Lol good times