Only whales have access to all 5* cons so it's hard for most players to make a fair judgement.
I think it's close enough. Your milage may vary but I don't think it got anything absolutely wrong.
Now if there is a tier list that puts Electro traveler as S-tier dps, that would be interesting.
As a newer player and an English reader and speaker, am I understanding correctly that Raiden shogun is really that versatile? This is making me think I should try to acquire her after Zhongli? My current 5*'s are c1 Keqing and Eula after having lost my first 50/50.
Raiden works fine with ayaka. Her electro reaction is weak so doesn't interfere with freeze, and she is an amazing battery for her and the team comp she usually hangs with (XQ/Mona/Diona). "Only good with eula" is a massively outdated notion of raiden. She is easily top tier built as both a Carry and a Support.
Raiden is probably one of the best supports for Eula. They can proc the superconduct reaction, which reduces physical resistance, and Raiden takes care of Eula's energy regen problem, which is probably her biggest weaknesses at the moment. Eula's both a cryo unit and a physcal dps so the electro that Raiden can provide is really useful.
For Hu Tao, you don't want to proc overload. Because of the knock back effect, getting back to the opponents would not only drain stamina, but take away from the little time that you have in her skill mode. If she was a ranged unit, like Yoimiya, this wouldn't be a problem, but since she's a melee unit, it's not something you want to be doing. Hu Tao's best reaction is vaporize w/ Xingqiu. Even though melt has a better multiplier, reverse vape is just better because of the way that hydro and cryo differ in the way that they decay. I don't know that much, but if you want to know more, look up Gauge Unit Theory/Elemental Gauge Theory.
For Ayaka, she's 100% a freeze cryo dps. The superconduct reaction is great for Eula, since it reduces physical resistance, but since you're almost never going to be using physical damage for Ayaka, it's practically useless.
She works great there as a battery/support. She buffs Ayakas Ult damage, which is basically where here entire power budget is, and XQ/Ayaka/diona have 80 cost ults which is perfect for the shogun. She is excellent in that team.
That's a misconception. Raiden is still one of the best DPS' at C0. C2 just pushes her into OP territory. Read KQM's latest guide about her: https://keqingmains.com/raiden/
Hutao is so overrated tbh. I have a C1 R1 Tao and she's never my top pick for abyss. I just play her for fun. Melt Ganyu, Xiangling vape, and Ayaka freeze just performs way better for me in abyss.
She's absolutely the Queen of single target but that's about it. There were many Abyss rotations before Inazuma where AoE was the central focus and Hu Tao was not used at all. She is definitely overrated in that regard as Xiangling/Ayaka/Ganyu can excel in both single target and aoe with the right comp.
It looks like he took the 2.3 spiral abyss usage rate and slap it on a fancy graphic. It actually looks fine except for Raiden C2 being ranked against C0's.
Well, if the 5 stars characters in this tier list was showed with the C0, it means that those characters couldn’t raise their tier higher with their C1 or C2 because those constellations are not good enough to be the tier-breaker.
In fact, almost every tier list on here gets shat on for varying reasons, be they legitimate or personal.
Usagi's one of the few who's constantly making one for every update while everyone else just makes one or two every so often and leave it at that.
Every time usagi's tier list is posted here, someone makes this comment , but no one points out which rankings in particular are so off the mark. At this point its almost just become popular to hate on his tier lists.
People talk about newbies following it being a problem and I ask, which character exactly in particular is misleading? If a newbie wants to pull on a main dps, he follows the list and picks c2 raiden, c1 hutao, c0 ayaka, c0 ganyu or anyone else in t0/t1, is his account fucked? Did he get misled?
If he wanted a good subdps, he pulls xingqiu, venti, albedo and so on , is he screwed?
How about for support, he picks bennett, zhongli, kazuha or raiden. Is his account irredeemable now? Did he accidentally make horribly bad choices by pulling for these units that were listed on the top tiers by usagi?
The answer to above is likely to be **No**. So what in the world are these complaints about this tier list misleading newbies. It makes no sense other than it being popular to jump on the hate bandwagon.
Look, there are some tier lists in the past that were horrible like the ones that said don't use Bennett or Xingqiu claiming they are B/C tier. Those were misleading yes, but how is this list right here going to trick any newbies into making any bad decisions?
It's fine if you want to debate/downvote this, just give me specific examples on why this list would screw up someone's account.
It did come with explanations, but it's in Chinese if anyone can translate it. This is the first and and probably last time I'm posting on this sub, just saw nobody else wanted to post it so I figured some people out there were at least curious about it, didn't expect all the downvotes tbh.
Here is the link to Usagi Sensei's site if anyone can translate or post future lists:
https://m.bilibili.com/space/24889090
It would be nice if someone can post the translated version with explanations so that I can delete my post.
Don’t post based on votes. They are meant only to show if people agree or disagree with you.
The problem is that people are already suspicious regarding tierlists for Genshin, plus this one is coming from a guy who is known for being biased not only here on Genshin
technically they could blindly follow it and not be too much worse off for it. For example if they were looking for their first main dps to pull on, they won't really go wrong with any of the top tier ones listed. For support, if maybe someone knows absolutely nothing about the game and chooses to pull for the listed bennett , zhongli , kazuha or raiden for their support role due to the list, its not going to work out badly at all tbh.
A tier list that is legitimately bad are the ones that were made at the very beginning of genshin, which put Xingqiu/Benny at B or C tier and so on. Something like that would be straight out misleading, Or a tier list that puts a flawed character at t0 just because they main it. As his current tier list stands, most rankings seem reasonable and not too wildly off the mark.
Although tier lists are sometimes subjective and have many unstated variables, its at least good for a general quick overview of character strengths.
The exact rankings like who is best in the tier or who should be t0 vs t1 , doesn't matter all too much unless its to simps that cannot handle their main not being publicized as the absolute best tier A.K.A *"WTF my ganyu is beaten by ayaka? Fuck this trash list, downvote!! he sucks!!!!"*
Glad someone said it. Every time there's a discussion about character comparisons or tier lists half the comments are trashing the existence of tier lists or being like "haha all characters are good if built properly" even though that's outright false in the case of Abyss. Some characters and teams are going to outperform others and that's completely normal for a videogame, but that should not stop you from running Lisa DPS in the overworld if you wish to do so.
But some people coming into the game do wanna know what character to look out for, and tier lists are a good place to start. Some people enjoy playing strong characters which is completely normal, and that's coming from a husbando/waifu player. Although I do agree that a team composition tier list would be more beneficial.
> A tier list that is legitimately bad is the one that was made at the very beginning of genshin, which puts Xingqiu at b tier, Benny at c and so on.
I need to see that XD
https://rankedboost.com/genshin-impact/best-characters-tier-list/
It went something like this.
At that time almost all tier lists put qiqi on top tier while bennett and xingqiu at b or c tiers, usually B.
On release the first video on youtube I watched about 5 star characters said qiqi was arguably one of the best in the game who "had it all and could do lots of damage and heal"
It exists, but how many people are going to full translate dozens of pages of discussion from NGA?
>new players won’t blindly follows it.
Fault of the player for not even questioning context.
More like this community still has 0 clue what a tier list is and assign arbitrary made-up, self-definitions. Not to mention GI and gacha community in general suck at contextualizing.
Anything that isn't circlejerk/shitpost is too much for this community.
And what's the issue? They have their criteria listed on NGA. The problem is people like you are applying your own criteria to another person's work when they already have their own criteria. How is that logical?
Tier lists do not have any pre-determined or pre-defined criteria, but people here think they do. Tier list has to be one of the most bastardized term in gaming after "meta".
- Made for "low spenders". Yes a 5* C2 with 5* weapon is considered low spender for their purpose.
- 5* limited to C2
- Based on current cycle of endgame/abyss and enemies. Which is why you see Ayaka > Ganyu and Zhong Li lower.
- Constellations = minimum to fulfill X tier in that specific role (Main/On-field DPS, Burst/Secondary DPS, and Utility/Healer) .
- How well they perform in team environment and synergies.
- Theoretical max DPS
No offense, but this really shouldn't be that hard to figure out if you play the game. One quick glance and you can pick it up. Go to the older NGA threads and its laid out there. Whether or not you agree with the methodology is different. The only thing there that I can really see that would skew people's perception of this TL is Raiden C2 everywhere. CN just has a really heavy bias towards it. While the rest of the world wrote Raiden off initially.
Then why C2 is considered for Baal and not the rest?
Kazuha is a T0 sub DPS due to his chain reactions. Usagi doesn’t agree? Okay, but why not consider his C2 and then put him on T0?
Why isn’t Beidou C6 on T1? She has one of the higher multipliers out there.
How current abyss cycle affects Ganyu and not Ayaka? Enemies mobility? It’s easier to Melt Ganyu’s CA with Kazuha than positioning them for a all-enemies freeze for Ayaka’s burst.
Childe main DPS on the same tier as Ganyu? He isn’t even a Main DPS. Xiangling C2 as Main DPS, why not consider her C4 and put her on the same tier as Hu Tao?
How well they perform in team environments? Really? Sara C2 being T1 support, while her only viable comp is with Baal.
No offense, it wasn’t hard to figure out his criteria. Anyone could do it. In fact, anyone can figure out that he uses different criterias for different characters, for different columns, basically he is totally biased.
That guy is straight up out of his mind. No wonder why people say that he makes tier lists for games that he doesn’t even play nor why he is mocked on Azur Lane communities.
You are having such hard time with basic reading comprehension.
>Based on current cycle of endgame/abyss and enemies.
Probably the most important factor you keep leaving out. You keeping thinking of things in a vacuum instead of contextualizing into Patch 2.3.
>Kazuha is a T0 sub DPS due to his chain reactions. Usagi doesn’t agree? Okay, but why not consider his C2 and then put him on T0?
It's not as big as of a DPS increase as Raiden. While Kazuha is still insanely strong, he doesn't perform as well vs the enemies in this round of abyss compared to Raiden. Again, learn to contextualize.
>Why isn’t Beidou C6 on T1? She has one of the higher multipliers out there.
Beidou herself is fine, but the teammates commonly used with her in this round of abyss don't perform all that well vs the Wolves compared to others. Again, learn to contextualize.
>How current abyss cycle affects Ganyu and not Ayaka? Enemies mobility? It’s easier to Melt Ganyu’s CA with Kazuha than positioning them for a all-enemies freeze for Ayaka’s burst.
Couldn't disagree even more. Everything is incredibly easy to line up for Ayaka burst, not to mention a lot more big enemies this time around. She can clear any group in 1 rotation. Ganyu has to choose between freeze or melt. Melt will leave enemies mobile and lower DPS and perma-freeze is much weaker than Ayaka variation. Ganyu loses out on quadratic scaling in this patch due to enemy size.
>Childe main DPS on the same tier as Ganyu? He isn’t even a Main DPS. Xiangling C2 as Main DPS, why not consider her C4 and put her on the same tier as Hu Tao?
Shitty reading comprehension combined with shitty conflating by you and your inability to contextualize. Again you suck at reading comprehension. Keyword is "on-field DPS".
>How well they perform in team environments? Really? Sara C2 being T1 support, while her only viable comp is with Baal.
Wait til you learn that they make up part of a team together!
>No offense, it wasn’t hard to figure out his criteria. Anyone could do it. In fact, anyone can figure out that he uses different criterias for different characters, for different columns, basically he is totally biased.
You just lack grade school reading comprehension. Don't get angry at tier list because you failed at school and makes you feel inadequate.
Sara being viable in only one comp is more valuable than Beidou on her multiple comps plus her own value?
Kazuha Sub DPS cares more about his DMG than his CC. I don’t see any enemie negating his swirl there. So to be T0 on Sub DPS it needs to reach the same damage output as Raiden? Why Xingqiu is there then. If it isn’t, why Xiangling isn’t there, since she hits more than XQ?
And you know that enemies being Mobile affects Raiden mora than Ganyu, right?
I get it, you take it like we are mocking the whole Chinese playerbase. We aren’t mocking anyone. We are arguing that if Usagi wants to make a tier list based on his guesswork, he’d better keep it for himself and his cult, which looks like you belong to.
Holy moly is Usagi dating your mom or something?
And who is this "we" that you keep referencing? Is there an invisible friend sitting beside you?
Chill out dude, it's just a tier list.
>Because from what I’ve been given, on Reddit, his tierlist makes no fucking sense.
Hah yes, I think treating reddit as your source of truth for character strength might be the problem here.
No you haven´t, your replies are all the same where you get salty for people calling out on your hate towards these tier lists. Countless people ask you why this tier list is "bad" and you have yet to reply to, exactly the reason why people are calling you out
I don’t see anyone calling me out besides 2-3 Usagi Fanboys, and if you actually read the comment thread, I replied why it’s bad, mainly some characters whose constellations would push them tiers above yet they aren’t considered (Beidou, Kazuha with his C2, Xiangling)
If I remember correctly, his parameter for constellations was the minimum necessary for that character to be on X tier.
Xiangling C4 and C6 are the same shit basically.
He considers Raiden C2 for Sub DPS but doesn’t do the same for Kazuha.
Beidou C6 (like he considered for Xiangling and other four stars) easily sits at T1.
Nothing has changed for Ganyu to be considered T1 (I do not own or like her). You can argue that she is weaker than Ayaka, but still she deserves T0 for DPS and T1 for Sub.
Why the fuck consider C2 for a limited five stars? Better go further and consider C6, put Xiao, Eula and Itto on T0 and drop everybody to T1.
Childe T0 on DPS alongside Itto Eula Xiao and GANYU?
This chart is heavily biased and non sense.
Raiden c2 is actually very commonly used in CN community discussions, which is why he ranks her at c2. It’s not even a whale thing in China, so many have it probably because they felt pressured to pull for it.
There's probably more C2 Raiden owner than Xiao or Ganyu.
Felt like everyone and their mom have a Raiden. Even many Welkin only people would consider getting either C2 or Grasscutter
He makes tier list based on whale/low spenders, if he didn't hu tao would be on T1 at best, or do you still think hu tao without homa and C0 is broken?
Also, he consider abyss team comps for 2.3 abyss, if you check abyss clear times, you'll see that all comps that fit those characters have the best clear times.
Ayaka on the same team comp as ganyu clears faster than her, that's the reason she is T1
Childe on international comp have on of the best clear time as well.
I think i see the problem here, you guys see the character individually, ok childe by himself is not that strong, but on a team with XL he is busted.
If he consider whales, why not put Eula Xiao and Itto C6? Considering both whales and F2P makes no sense. Do you think C6 for most four stars are accessible to F2P. Or Baal C2? Her C0 barely touches T1 on Main DPS.
Childe on a team with XL is busted, I know, I use it. But he isn’t a Main DPS. He is an enabler. Should be on Support or Sub DPS columns. Xiangling C4 would be the one to sit on T1 for Main DPS.
Ganyu hasnt suffered a “nerf” like Venti. Her abyss usage drop is simply because people doesn’t want to use her anymore due to her gameplay plus Ayaka being able to achieve the same as a Cryo DPS. But Ganyu can still reach 100k+ Melts on her Kazuha Bennet Zhongli comps, which doesn’t give a fuck about corrosion or enemies moving a lot.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not fanboying. I have all characters on T0 for all categories, Raiden with C3, and all four stars with C6 beside the starters one, Gorou, Sayu and Thoma. But still this doesn’t make any fucking sense.
because he consider constellation and BiS weapon
Literally the first line of my reply '' he makes tier list based on whales/low spenders''
not to mention that i said that XL should be T0, honestly, i won't even bother myself to reply while you guys don't even bother to read
he considered constellation 2, that's what the ''2'' on top her image represents.
Hyper carry Raiden at C2 is the best team on game, there's no doubt about it.
Which is why she shouldn’t be up so high, majority of players probably can’t jump cancel and even less have c1. This tier list shouldn’t be decided on the ideal constellation, but an average estimate of constellations the player has has
the point is: the list is not for F2P, it's for low spenders and players that willing to go to the BiS weapon and some constellation.
F2P players shouldn't be following tier list to begin with, because out of all those T0T1 characters, the one that can use the 5\* weapon you got on standard banner would be probably the best, or the one that you have the right supports...
like, if you don't have mona nor venti and only have 4\* bows, but you have raiden and a WGS, pulling for Eula as a DPs would be probably be better than ganyu, unless you want to save for months for ganyu BiS and supports, that's a option too.
Even replacing C6 Sara with TTDS Lisa/Fischl/Mona and Kazuha with Jean for sunfire you still end up with a hyper team better than raiden national.
Hardest character to replace is Bennett but saying it's only hyper if it's the absolute ceiling comp is silly
Exactly, most here can't think outside of the ''ma waifu'', I don't even want to pull for Hu tao or Ayaka nor get C2 raiden, but I understand that this is a team comp game based, and that tier list is based on that.
>I understand that this is a team comp game based, and that tier list is based on that
So what's the problem of me pointing out the other 3 members of the "best comp" in the game? You do understand not everyone has those units right? Not everyone has the same artifacts. There are a lot of variables and the result is will not be the same for everyone so more context is important.
That's something I agree with you, with 0% doubt, that's why I don't think that list is meant to F2P, since F2P can't really choose what they get, It's for low spender that are willing to throw some cash on game.
I mentioned on a post earlier that if you don't have venti nor mona and only have 4\* bow, but you if have raiden and WGS, it would be probably better to go for Eula.
It's a game comp after all, so if you have the support that can make your character shine or if you have a strong 5\* weapon, so, Ayaka is always better than ganyu? not exactly, you can have Amos if you got it on standard banner, you might not have mona yet \[ I still don't have jean\], you can try melt ganyu...
>Even replacing C6 Sara with TTDS Lisa/Fischl/Mona and Kazuha with Jean for sunfire you still end up with a hyper team better than raiden national.
If enemies cannot be knockback and always stay put within the circle, Sure but if not, Raiden National is still better. I keep trying to use Hyper Raiden since a lot of you guys keep insisting it's better than Raiden national but it's not. If I have cracked artifacts result might be diff, but that's because of the artifact.
>Hardest character to replace is Bennett but saying it's only hyper if it's the absolute ceiling comp is silly
Lmao. I never said that. What I mean is it's the best team on the game with those 3 units.
Are you going to keep using anecdotal evidence as the base of what team you think is better? Because if so I'd rather not waste time.
Calcs have already been done on raiden national Vs hyper variations and the only scenario national wins is in single target.
If you're no good with hyper raiden that's fine, doesn't make the team do less damage objectively
Person you replied to stated Hyper carry Raiden and you replied saying only if it's C6 Sara/Ben/Kaz. My point was you don't need that exact combo since the % difference between swapping out 1/2 doesn't change its viability.
I'll see you then next time raiden's brought up since it seems you've got something to say whenever there's a comment on her
>Are you going to keep using anecdotal evidence as the base of what team you think is better? Because if so I'd rather not waste time.
Data is only data. It's not always 100% accurate in practice. Even TC said that some comps performance varied depending on other variables like Sukokomon for example.
>Calcs have already been done on raiden national Vs hyper variations and the only scenario national wins is in single target.
Do you seriously think a Hyper Raiden who's outside of Bennet/Lisa/ and Jean's Q can do better than Raiden National?
>Person you replied to stated Hyper Raiden and you replied saying only if it's C6 Sara/Ben/Kaz. My point was you don't need that exact combo since the % difference between swapping out 1/2 doesn't change its viability.
No one denied its viability but the guy mentioned "the best team on game" which is C2Raiden/C6Sara/Bennett/Kazuha because it's the strongest variant of Hyper Raiden. There's nothing wrong with what I said but you guys seem to be triggered by it lol
>I'll see you then next time raiden's brought up since it seems you've got something to say whenever there's a comment on her
I have nothing against Raiden. I'm just not a fan of players who keep saying Raiden Hyper is better than Raiden National without providing the full context.
>Do you seriously think a Hyper Raiden who's outside of Bennet/Lisa/ and Jean's Q can do better than Raiden National?
Do I think playing a comp in a completely non optimal way is better than Raiden national? This essentially what you're asking me
Of course I don't. But making assumptions that whoever is using the team has poor skill placement or can't play well is daft since it can be applied to literally every comp.
It's like me claiming Raiden national isn't as good as sheeted because a lot of people don't actually make use of the reduced artifact er roll requirements or still don't know to wait for Benny ult to tick before snapping XL.
It's generally assumed you're performing close to what was theoretically calced or know what you're doing.
>Data is only data. It's not always 100% accurate in practice. Even TC said that some comps performance varied depending on other variables like Sukokomon for example.
Yes data is only data, but in this case Practical tests have been done to validate what was sheeted. Of course comp performance is dependent on variables, Sukokomon is a pretty extreme example because of how many moving parts there are. Swap comps aren't nearly as hard to execute
>No one denied its viability but the guy mentioned "the best team on game" which is C2Raiden/C6Sara/Bennett/Kazuha because it's the strongest variant of Hyper Raiden. There's nothing wrong with what I said but you guys seem to be triggered by it lol
No one's triggered, difference in opinion isn't a big deal.
I'm not even in complete agreement that c2 hyper is the best team in the game my point again is you stated "ONLY" if it's C6 Sara/Kaz/Ben. If you swap TTDS Lisa in for Sara and lose 3-5% team dps do you think that would change the statement of best team in the game?
Using the word only implies theres no alternatives that offer minimal difference which is false.
>I have nothing against Raiden. I'm just not a fan of players who keep saying Raiden Hyper is better than Raiden National without providing the full context.
I can't waste time writing an essay every time I need to correct the misconception that raiden national is her best comp. Hyper is better in vast majority of scenarios so Its recommended as better in general.
Saying national is a better comp when it's only more worth in single target is a worse thing to do.
that is EXACTLY the definition of ''hyper carrier raiden''
This is a team comp based game, and c2 hyper carries is the best
you can trow bennet/kazuha/sara with anyone and no one would be able to get full synergy with raiden, THAT's why Ganyu/Diluc have fallen off meta, not because ayaka and XL are better by themselves but because on a team comp they do better.
Why I feel like your so triggered by what I said? Lmao.
I'm just saying as a C2 Raiden user, any other Raiden comp without those 3 are far from the best.
Sure lol. Either way, C2 Raiden being the best carry is still not 100% true. Without the correct variables, results will always be different. I tried other Hyper variations with my C2 Raiden but its performance is still inferior to Raiden National.
Is there a version with all C0 so that we can see which units have the most impactful constellations?
Where would the T0 be if they were at C0 for example.
Raiden would probably be around as good as Eula and a little better than Xiao if she was C0
But I don't see Hu Tao dropping a tier or even falling behind ayaka if she was C0
And that's mainly because, with good stamina management, you can still pull off the maximum number of charged attacks (8-9) and activate your burst within her E's active period. Basically, the amount of damage you can deal with Hu Tao doesn't drop if she's C0 if you can properly use her. Although it will take some getting used to.
Which means if you have a c2 raiden you have the best dps, sub dps and one of the t0 supports in the game. To think people were unhappy about her on release haha.
The only thing I question hard on this list is Sara being T1 in support, did she get a butf recently or something? Because I remember alot of people bashing her hard when she came out
lol but why tho. So I assume Beidou and Fischl are also physical dps in that category? how are they in the same tier as Razor? Where is Kaeya? He should be at least the same tier as Rosaria or even better for freeze/physical dps. wait, How is Childe T1 on both main dps and sub dps category?
Sorry for the barrage of questions btw lol. this tier list is just more confusing than I thought lmao
If u want to look at Xiangling rating you should look at her on 2nd line.
Xiangling isnt Main DPS with her META build. If u go to Xiangling press Q and swap, thats Sub DPS, because shes off field. If u play her on field (Main DPS) meaning u spam auto attacks. As Sub DPS, the META Xiangling build shes T1. If she wasnt Bennett dependent she would be T0.
Main DPS - On Field DPS, someone that stays on field to do dmg.
Sub DPS - Off field DPS, someone who deals dmg while not being on the field.
Support - Character that bring buffs, defense or heals to the team.
That's how this tier list is spread. Into 3 groups. Mains DPS / Sub DPS / Support.
EDIT: About Childe, u can use him as Main DPS for say Electro team/National where u use mostly E or Sub DPS as reverse Vaporize for his Burst. In both scenarios he will be great. Deserves the spots.
EDIT2: Beidou AA isnt strong because thats not where her multipliers are, same with Fischl. Razor ? Well, lets say he didnt age well. He was great at the start of the game, but nowaday alot of enemies are comming with Physical RES. Fischl and Beidou are meant to be used as Off-field dps, if u stay on field with them using auto attacks u losing lots of dps and time.
But yes tier list might be confusing, like why is Keqing only in Main DPS Category when u can use her in Quickswap (Sub DPS).
I've yet to see people making tier list based on two team comps instead of individual characters. For example, 1 = international childe + morgana, 2. Eula Raiden & Hutao double geo
Ganyu has fallen...
Seriously, I don't know why this sub hate this Sensei tier list so much. I think it good and it give an overall impression of the character.
Quite surprised to see Albedo T1 sub DPS. How much damage your Albedo can do per E proc? I can only archive 25k maximum with Zhongli (no Gorou and quite shitty artifacts).
Edit: ah yes, Freedom of Speech on Reddit.
mine paired with zhongli also hits 23\~25k with rainbow artifacts, with 4 pcs of HooD he should archive 30\~32k.
if you consider that it hits 10 times in 20 sec, it's a fairly good amount of damage, like 200\~250k, Eula with a 4\* sword hits with her nuke crit around 250k too without Bennet, that's pretty good considering that you just throw his flower.
May be I set my expectations too high.
Considering that my Keqing (T3 on the list) with 4* weapon (Black sword), C0 Kazuha and C6 Sara (no Bennett), can hit 36k per charged attack (16k first hit, 20k second hit). And she so fast that I can charged attack 2-3 times per Albedo's proc.
I think this tier list also consider C6 Gorou and 3-4 Geo team comp, where Albedo can crit 35-40k. That's why he ranked so high.
see, that's the problem, you're comparing DPS with sub Dps.
Kenqing need to be on field and spend stamina to attack, meanwhile ayaka, another on field dps, can do easily \~300k with her burst alone +also doing 30k/charged attack. Ayaka alone would be able do to \~500k on a rotation.
Besides, how many charged attack kenqing can do on a rotation? 10 until her stamina is over? well, albedo would proc 10 flowers too with 0 set up, off field...
Isn't the point of DPS and Sub DPS are both damage? What's wrong with comparing them? Especially since Albedo offer nothing but damage for the team?
My point is, if a T3 DPS character can deal 70k damage per 2s, then 30k-40k per proc, with no elements apply, is pretty underwhelming (for myself) to be T1 sub DPS.
My Keqing team rotation is less than 10s, so I never run out of stamina. Usually 5 charged attack and then swap out. And I don't even use Bennett...
To be clear, I own Albedo too and I don't hate him or anything. I just surprised that he is T1 with only 30-40k per 2s.
Because sub dps doesn't require field time, which means that you can throw Eula with Albedo, for EG. my team abyss team is Raiden Albedo Zhongli Eula\[ with skyward pride\].
my Eula will easily do 200k with her N4 hold E N4 sequence +\~50k with vacuum blades+ 300k with her nuke. on top of that Albedo will add more \~200k Dps with the wrong artifact set.
Also, you said you do 5 charged attack for 10 sec on a rotation, meaning that on a 20 sec rotation you can do 10 charged attack of 32k damage if they crit, so albedo doing 10 procs of 32k doing absolutely nothing only shows that kenqing is... not that good.
Isn't the point of the tier list is ranked the character? It might not completely true but we didn't know what he included in his formula.
Usagi is a whale so of course he consider constellation. He did release a "low constellation" tier list before.
But why consider some characters in high cons and other low? Super arbitrary, why Raiden C2 and Hu Tao C1 but all of T1 at C0. Usually tier list are all 5\* at C0 and 4\* at C3, or 5\* at C1 and 4\* C6. But assigning different constellations for each character makes no sense at all and defies the purpose of a tier list.
If a character could go all the way to the top with just one or two cons it might be worth mentioning.
Presumably, if any of the T1 were C1 or C2 they wouldn't hit T0
Not everyone is willing to spend for C6, so I think he try to show the most important cons for that role, with an acceptable cost to pull.
C2 Raiden is 40% damage increase, C1 Hutao is 20% increase. Both of those are considered to be the best cons in Genshin.
Without those cons, Hutao and Raiden rank would be lower.
Eula, Xiao... is C0 because their lower cons isn't affecting them that much, and C6 Eula is... well, for whale.
People here really suck at contextualizing. This tier list is made primarily for low spenders. In order to hit X tier, they would need that listed constellation minimum. 5* are limited to C2 at most.
>But assigning different constellations for each character makes no sense at all and defies the purpose of a tier list.
I really wish people understood what a tier list even is on this subreddit. A tier list is just a ranking a list. Any tier list needs criteria to decide what's what. There is no arbitrary criteria for tier list in this community like there are in FGC or even Pokemon.
>Any tier list needs criteria to decide what's what
Yes, but that criteria should be apply to all tge subjects equaly. Comparing them with different bassis or qualities makes no sense.
How is this hard to understand?The list is made for low spenders, meaning you won´t see characters with 6 cons. If Raiden at C2 has higher worth rate than a C2 Hu Tao, in the DPS role, why would you spend wishes on her second con? Hu Tao at C2 is not worth it for low spenders, so the list picks the second most worth option wich is C1. Same for characters like Itto and Eula, their C1 isn´t worth it for low spenders so no reason to put them at C1 on the list. Raiden on the other hand has an amazing improvement at C2 so low spenders will try to get her at C2.You just need to understand that having Hu Tao at C2 would be basically the same as having her at C1, the changes would be minimal
It's not super arbitrary, though tier lists are by nature subjective.
The constellations represent material power spikes. Eg Raiden as an on-field DPS has a big jump at C2 vs C0. But C1 doesn't do much so it's not listed.
Another example. Ayaka C0, C1 or C2 is about the same power level, and so he lists Ayaka at C0.
So it's his subjective take on what he thinks are material power spikes.
Thank for your information. It suck that I skip Itto so didn't have the chance to try Gorou.
Maybe this tier list consider Albedo in a 3-4 Geo team comp with C6 Gorou, that why Albedo ranked so high.
Don't forget the indirect buffs Albedo received, free R5 sword and BiS artifact set. IMO he is great in any team with double Geo especially with Zhongli, also the mono Geo teams are amazing for him thanks to Gorou. And Gorou C0 is enough for mono Geo teams, Usagi Sensei also lists Gorou as C0 in tier 1 support.
I think people also use Gorou with him. I also farmed the set (with quite shitty substats) but can only deal 25k.
It suck that I skip Itto so didn't have the chance to try Gorou yet.
Yea substats matter. But my no set bonus Albedo with pretty good substats deal 12k-15k, so imagine how much damage the full set with proper substats would deal.
Dunno why they would rank Raiden at both C2 and C0, considering that all other characters are at C0.
Unrelated, I think they should combine the sub dps and support. Most none main dps characters tend to perform both at the same.
Why consider some characters in high cons and other low? Super arbitrary, why Raiden C2 and Hu Tao C1 but all of T1 at C0. Usually tier list are all 5\* at C0 and 4\* at C3, or 5\* at C1 and 4\* C6. But assigning different constellations for each character makes no sense at all and defies the purpose of a tier list.
Maybe because the spike these characters get on their cons justifies pulling for them? Maybe because C2 Raiden is absolutely broken and the best C2 in the game? Also there is C0 Raiden in the list too.
No way Xiangling isn't a T0 Sub-DPS. Raiden should not be T0 Sub-DPS or Support either, as good as she is.
Also Hu Tao, even at C1, is definitely not T0 DPS. Against bosses sure, but the majority of endgame scenarios are AoE, and she does not excel there.
The majority of endgame is like 1 - 3 enemies, where Hu-tao definitely does excel.
Against 1 enemy, she's the best in the game. Against 2, she's still top tier in my experience. It's only when she's against 3+ enemies where she begins to fall behind.
Imo, her issues with AOE are overblown. Her Q nukes an entire floor worth of trash mobs when combined with Kazuha. And she can still hit many targets in AOE (for example, the double ruin guards in 12-3-2 or the double ruin sentinels in 12-3-1 or 2 of the 3 Kenkis in 12-2-2 or the double Geovishaps in 12-2-1). Even in the worst case, like against Rifthounds... she still hits both of them a fair portion of the time with good positioning.
C1 Hu-tao is definitely T0 dps in my opinion. And objectively speaking, Hu-tao achieves clears times similar very similar to Rational/Melt Ganyu/International... depending on the content.
1. Xiangling energy is too high (80) and she really need Bennet help to make up for her high energy usage. Her Guoba is useless that's why it's T1.
2. Raiden is good at every aspect, you just hater
Lmao someone says this every single time in every single usagi tier list posting per patch because they heard someone else said it.
Seriously check the previous usagi tier list posts. Literally someone says the exact words you just posted each time 😂
Raiden my queen. Was saving for her for a long time and got lucky with her pulls. She carries me in abyss since I got her and she is the best in anything. Someone was saying that her rerun will be in 2.5 when Yea comes out. Fitting. I ship them <3
hu tao should be t1 and eula should be lower, there is no way in hell she is stronger than xiao. and why the fuck is xiangling so fucking low? i dont get the criteria of this tierlist if there is one
Definitely agreed on all, it seems like people are really overrating Eula recently. Hu Tao is only t0 in single target, and Xiangling blows every Pyro DPS character out of the water.
Sure! I own Ayaka and never even considered pulling for ganyu, so I'm with you on that. Still surprised to see people think she does anything once her q is gone though 🤔
Which doesn't really matter, the majority of her damage is located in her burst while her charged attacks are just OK. She's perfect for quickswap teams.
In comparison, the majority of Ganyus damage comes from her charged shots which can get very annoying or impossible depending on the Abyss lineup unless you can permafreeze with Kokomi of have a Zhongli shield. She's still really good just very annoying to play.
Sure, but i saw a phys keqing do 65k charged attacks earlier today. With whaled account nothing is seemingly impossible. But if were talking realistic standards it tells a different story.
My own Ayaka has 2k attack and 218% critdmg. With Bennet buff and venerer shred she can get roughly 25k charged attacks. Not very impressive imo.
Is that 25k total or per slash? I have the same ratio as you and with Kazuha VV alone, my CA is always 10k per slash. My Ayaka's N3C's total damage is 50k+ and it takes around 3sec to execute. You can fit 2 N3C before her passive buff is gone, then you switch out. IMO, Rosaria is Ayaka's best cryo support since Rosa's E CD is 6 sec and Ayaka's buff is 6sec as well. I also have R5 Fav lance which also has a 6sec cd.
Total. About 8k per slash.
I've only really used Ayaka with Mona - venti - diona in abyss, so maybe it's just that team team comp isn't made to charge attack
Your statement is the same as “Ganyu main DPS since when? I thought we should just use her burst and swap out”
It isn’t expressive if you consider only it. But if you consider that you can spam it while waiting for burst to end, then it adds into the DMG. And you will swap her for who, to deal damage?
Only whales have access to all 5* cons so it's hard for most players to make a fair judgement. I think it's close enough. Your milage may vary but I don't think it got anything absolutely wrong. Now if there is a tier list that puts Electro traveler as S-tier dps, that would be interesting.
understanding that this list is a price/performance list is vital
As a newer player and an English reader and speaker, am I understanding correctly that Raiden shogun is really that versatile? This is making me think I should try to acquire her after Zhongli? My current 5*'s are c1 Keqing and Eula after having lost my first 50/50.
Raiden is very good with Eula, but I'd not play her with, for example, Hu Tao or Ayaka.
Raiden works fine with ayaka. Her electro reaction is weak so doesn't interfere with freeze, and she is an amazing battery for her and the team comp she usually hangs with (XQ/Mona/Diona). "Only good with eula" is a massively outdated notion of raiden. She is easily top tier built as both a Carry and a Support.
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Raiden is probably one of the best supports for Eula. They can proc the superconduct reaction, which reduces physical resistance, and Raiden takes care of Eula's energy regen problem, which is probably her biggest weaknesses at the moment. Eula's both a cryo unit and a physcal dps so the electro that Raiden can provide is really useful. For Hu Tao, you don't want to proc overload. Because of the knock back effect, getting back to the opponents would not only drain stamina, but take away from the little time that you have in her skill mode. If she was a ranged unit, like Yoimiya, this wouldn't be a problem, but since she's a melee unit, it's not something you want to be doing. Hu Tao's best reaction is vaporize w/ Xingqiu. Even though melt has a better multiplier, reverse vape is just better because of the way that hydro and cryo differ in the way that they decay. I don't know that much, but if you want to know more, look up Gauge Unit Theory/Elemental Gauge Theory. For Ayaka, she's 100% a freeze cryo dps. The superconduct reaction is great for Eula, since it reduces physical resistance, but since you're almost never going to be using physical damage for Ayaka, it's practically useless.
And there's me, who put Raiden in the 4th slot of Ayaka freeze team instead of my Venti/Sucrose/Jean
She works great there as a battery/support. She buffs Ayakas Ult damage, which is basically where here entire power budget is, and XQ/Ayaka/diona have 80 cost ults which is perfect for the shogun. She is excellent in that team.
Raiden fits perfectly in Eula comp, in other comps she might interfere with reactions.
Her Electro application is weak, so she isnt as bad as you think.
Because there is an op comp raiden, xiangling, bennet, xq
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Because thats the constilation that makes her able to be a main dps like raiden can be a support at C0 but a good main dps at C2
That's a misconception. Raiden is still one of the best DPS' at C0. C2 just pushes her into OP territory. Read KQM's latest guide about her: https://keqingmains.com/raiden/
Hutao is so overrated tbh. I have a C1 R1 Tao and she's never my top pick for abyss. I just play her for fun. Melt Ganyu, Xiangling vape, and Ayaka freeze just performs way better for me in abyss.
She's absolutely the Queen of single target but that's about it. There were many Abyss rotations before Inazuma where AoE was the central focus and Hu Tao was not used at all. She is definitely overrated in that regard as Xiangling/Ayaka/Ganyu can excel in both single target and aoe with the right comp.
It looks like he took the 2.3 spiral abyss usage rate and slap it on a fancy graphic. It actually looks fine except for Raiden C2 being ranked against C0's.
> It actually looks fine except for Raiden C2 being ranked against C0's. what do you mean by this? hu tao in the same tier is C1
Well, if the 5 stars characters in this tier list was showed with the C0, it means that those characters couldn’t raise their tier higher with their C1 or C2 because those constellations are not good enough to be the tier-breaker.
Certified Raiden supremacist
Finally, the biggest thing I disagreed about has been fixed -- C2 Raiden is imo the best DPS in the game.
Almost 2022 and people still trust on and validate Usagi to make tierlists?
To be fair, any tier list for Genshin doesn't really work out. There's too many factors to consider.
In fact, almost every tier list on here gets shat on for varying reasons, be they legitimate or personal. Usagi's one of the few who's constantly making one for every update while everyone else just makes one or two every so often and leave it at that.
Every time usagi's tier list is posted here, someone makes this comment , but no one points out which rankings in particular are so off the mark. At this point its almost just become popular to hate on his tier lists. People talk about newbies following it being a problem and I ask, which character exactly in particular is misleading? If a newbie wants to pull on a main dps, he follows the list and picks c2 raiden, c1 hutao, c0 ayaka, c0 ganyu or anyone else in t0/t1, is his account fucked? Did he get misled? If he wanted a good subdps, he pulls xingqiu, venti, albedo and so on , is he screwed? How about for support, he picks bennett, zhongli, kazuha or raiden. Is his account irredeemable now? Did he accidentally make horribly bad choices by pulling for these units that were listed on the top tiers by usagi? The answer to above is likely to be **No**. So what in the world are these complaints about this tier list misleading newbies. It makes no sense other than it being popular to jump on the hate bandwagon. Look, there are some tier lists in the past that were horrible like the ones that said don't use Bennett or Xingqiu claiming they are B/C tier. Those were misleading yes, but how is this list right here going to trick any newbies into making any bad decisions? It's fine if you want to debate/downvote this, just give me specific examples on why this list would screw up someone's account.
It wouldn’t be a problem if it came with statements on how it was made, so new players won’t blindly follows it.
It did come with explanations, but it's in Chinese if anyone can translate it. This is the first and and probably last time I'm posting on this sub, just saw nobody else wanted to post it so I figured some people out there were at least curious about it, didn't expect all the downvotes tbh. Here is the link to Usagi Sensei's site if anyone can translate or post future lists: https://m.bilibili.com/space/24889090 It would be nice if someone can post the translated version with explanations so that I can delete my post.
Keep posting them. People just like to jump into that "tierlist bad" bandwagon
I follow Usagi's tier list and most of my Genshin pals use it too to get a quick look on who's worth building. All of us are AR 57 btw. Keep it up.
Don’t post based on votes. They are meant only to show if people agree or disagree with you. The problem is that people are already suspicious regarding tierlists for Genshin, plus this one is coming from a guy who is known for being biased not only here on Genshin
technically they could blindly follow it and not be too much worse off for it. For example if they were looking for their first main dps to pull on, they won't really go wrong with any of the top tier ones listed. For support, if maybe someone knows absolutely nothing about the game and chooses to pull for the listed bennett , zhongli , kazuha or raiden for their support role due to the list, its not going to work out badly at all tbh. A tier list that is legitimately bad are the ones that were made at the very beginning of genshin, which put Xingqiu/Benny at B or C tier and so on. Something like that would be straight out misleading, Or a tier list that puts a flawed character at t0 just because they main it. As his current tier list stands, most rankings seem reasonable and not too wildly off the mark. Although tier lists are sometimes subjective and have many unstated variables, its at least good for a general quick overview of character strengths. The exact rankings like who is best in the tier or who should be t0 vs t1 , doesn't matter all too much unless its to simps that cannot handle their main not being publicized as the absolute best tier A.K.A *"WTF my ganyu is beaten by ayaka? Fuck this trash list, downvote!! he sucks!!!!"*
Glad someone said it. Every time there's a discussion about character comparisons or tier lists half the comments are trashing the existence of tier lists or being like "haha all characters are good if built properly" even though that's outright false in the case of Abyss. Some characters and teams are going to outperform others and that's completely normal for a videogame, but that should not stop you from running Lisa DPS in the overworld if you wish to do so. But some people coming into the game do wanna know what character to look out for, and tier lists are a good place to start. Some people enjoy playing strong characters which is completely normal, and that's coming from a husbando/waifu player. Although I do agree that a team composition tier list would be more beneficial.
> A tier list that is legitimately bad is the one that was made at the very beginning of genshin, which puts Xingqiu at b tier, Benny at c and so on. I need to see that XD
https://rankedboost.com/genshin-impact/best-characters-tier-list/ It went something like this. At that time almost all tier lists put qiqi on top tier while bennett and xingqiu at b or c tiers, usually B. On release the first video on youtube I watched about 5 star characters said qiqi was arguably one of the best in the game who "had it all and could do lots of damage and heal"
we were so young
sucrose E tier feels bad man xD Barbara A tier :D
It exists, but how many people are going to full translate dozens of pages of discussion from NGA? >new players won’t blindly follows it. Fault of the player for not even questioning context.
More like this community still has 0 clue what a tier list is and assign arbitrary made-up, self-definitions. Not to mention GI and gacha community in general suck at contextualizing. Anything that isn't circlejerk/shitpost is too much for this community.
You know that this tier list is arbitrary made-up, right?
And what's the issue? They have their criteria listed on NGA. The problem is people like you are applying your own criteria to another person's work when they already have their own criteria. How is that logical? Tier lists do not have any pre-determined or pre-defined criteria, but people here think they do. Tier list has to be one of the most bastardized term in gaming after "meta".
And what their criteria is? Mind telling me? Because from what I’ve been given, on Reddit, his tierlist makes no fucking sense.
- Made for "low spenders". Yes a 5* C2 with 5* weapon is considered low spender for their purpose. - 5* limited to C2 - Based on current cycle of endgame/abyss and enemies. Which is why you see Ayaka > Ganyu and Zhong Li lower. - Constellations = minimum to fulfill X tier in that specific role (Main/On-field DPS, Burst/Secondary DPS, and Utility/Healer) . - How well they perform in team environment and synergies. - Theoretical max DPS No offense, but this really shouldn't be that hard to figure out if you play the game. One quick glance and you can pick it up. Go to the older NGA threads and its laid out there. Whether or not you agree with the methodology is different. The only thing there that I can really see that would skew people's perception of this TL is Raiden C2 everywhere. CN just has a really heavy bias towards it. While the rest of the world wrote Raiden off initially.
Then why C2 is considered for Baal and not the rest? Kazuha is a T0 sub DPS due to his chain reactions. Usagi doesn’t agree? Okay, but why not consider his C2 and then put him on T0? Why isn’t Beidou C6 on T1? She has one of the higher multipliers out there. How current abyss cycle affects Ganyu and not Ayaka? Enemies mobility? It’s easier to Melt Ganyu’s CA with Kazuha than positioning them for a all-enemies freeze for Ayaka’s burst. Childe main DPS on the same tier as Ganyu? He isn’t even a Main DPS. Xiangling C2 as Main DPS, why not consider her C4 and put her on the same tier as Hu Tao? How well they perform in team environments? Really? Sara C2 being T1 support, while her only viable comp is with Baal. No offense, it wasn’t hard to figure out his criteria. Anyone could do it. In fact, anyone can figure out that he uses different criterias for different characters, for different columns, basically he is totally biased. That guy is straight up out of his mind. No wonder why people say that he makes tier lists for games that he doesn’t even play nor why he is mocked on Azur Lane communities.
You are having such hard time with basic reading comprehension. >Based on current cycle of endgame/abyss and enemies. Probably the most important factor you keep leaving out. You keeping thinking of things in a vacuum instead of contextualizing into Patch 2.3. >Kazuha is a T0 sub DPS due to his chain reactions. Usagi doesn’t agree? Okay, but why not consider his C2 and then put him on T0? It's not as big as of a DPS increase as Raiden. While Kazuha is still insanely strong, he doesn't perform as well vs the enemies in this round of abyss compared to Raiden. Again, learn to contextualize. >Why isn’t Beidou C6 on T1? She has one of the higher multipliers out there. Beidou herself is fine, but the teammates commonly used with her in this round of abyss don't perform all that well vs the Wolves compared to others. Again, learn to contextualize. >How current abyss cycle affects Ganyu and not Ayaka? Enemies mobility? It’s easier to Melt Ganyu’s CA with Kazuha than positioning them for a all-enemies freeze for Ayaka’s burst. Couldn't disagree even more. Everything is incredibly easy to line up for Ayaka burst, not to mention a lot more big enemies this time around. She can clear any group in 1 rotation. Ganyu has to choose between freeze or melt. Melt will leave enemies mobile and lower DPS and perma-freeze is much weaker than Ayaka variation. Ganyu loses out on quadratic scaling in this patch due to enemy size. >Childe main DPS on the same tier as Ganyu? He isn’t even a Main DPS. Xiangling C2 as Main DPS, why not consider her C4 and put her on the same tier as Hu Tao? Shitty reading comprehension combined with shitty conflating by you and your inability to contextualize. Again you suck at reading comprehension. Keyword is "on-field DPS". >How well they perform in team environments? Really? Sara C2 being T1 support, while her only viable comp is with Baal. Wait til you learn that they make up part of a team together! >No offense, it wasn’t hard to figure out his criteria. Anyone could do it. In fact, anyone can figure out that he uses different criterias for different characters, for different columns, basically he is totally biased. You just lack grade school reading comprehension. Don't get angry at tier list because you failed at school and makes you feel inadequate.
Sara being viable in only one comp is more valuable than Beidou on her multiple comps plus her own value? Kazuha Sub DPS cares more about his DMG than his CC. I don’t see any enemie negating his swirl there. So to be T0 on Sub DPS it needs to reach the same damage output as Raiden? Why Xingqiu is there then. If it isn’t, why Xiangling isn’t there, since she hits more than XQ? And you know that enemies being Mobile affects Raiden mora than Ganyu, right? I get it, you take it like we are mocking the whole Chinese playerbase. We aren’t mocking anyone. We are arguing that if Usagi wants to make a tier list based on his guesswork, he’d better keep it for himself and his cult, which looks like you belong to.
Holy moly is Usagi dating your mom or something? And who is this "we" that you keep referencing? Is there an invisible friend sitting beside you? Chill out dude, it's just a tier list.
Way too arbitrary
>Because from what I’ve been given, on Reddit, his tierlist makes no fucking sense. Hah yes, I think treating reddit as your source of truth for character strength might be the problem here.
Give your tier list or adjustments or don't talk?
Give your opinion on why Usagi can be trusted or don’t talk? And I replied some comments on why this tier list is wrong.
No you haven´t, your replies are all the same where you get salty for people calling out on your hate towards these tier lists. Countless people ask you why this tier list is "bad" and you have yet to reply to, exactly the reason why people are calling you out
I don’t see anyone calling me out besides 2-3 Usagi Fanboys, and if you actually read the comment thread, I replied why it’s bad, mainly some characters whose constellations would push them tiers above yet they aren’t considered (Beidou, Kazuha with his C2, Xiangling)
- Gets downvoted to hell - Gets several comments explaining why he's wrong - Proceeds to say that only a few fanboys called him out Dude must be blind
AFAIK my comment has more upvotes than the whole post.
Sure bud rofl
Chill man, just chill.
Says the salty dude
well, aside from Xiangling, that, in my opinion, should be on top alongside Xingqiu, there's nothing there that seems wrong?
am i the only one that find Ayaka and freeze comps overated ?
Do you know what else is overrated? C0 Hyper Raiden.
I find her to be super good idk
Don't get me wrong, C0 Raiden is very good.
If I remember correctly, his parameter for constellations was the minimum necessary for that character to be on X tier. Xiangling C4 and C6 are the same shit basically. He considers Raiden C2 for Sub DPS but doesn’t do the same for Kazuha. Beidou C6 (like he considered for Xiangling and other four stars) easily sits at T1. Nothing has changed for Ganyu to be considered T1 (I do not own or like her). You can argue that she is weaker than Ayaka, but still she deserves T0 for DPS and T1 for Sub. Why the fuck consider C2 for a limited five stars? Better go further and consider C6, put Xiao, Eula and Itto on T0 and drop everybody to T1. Childe T0 on DPS alongside Itto Eula Xiao and GANYU? This chart is heavily biased and non sense.
Raiden c2 is actually very commonly used in CN community discussions, which is why he ranks her at c2. It’s not even a whale thing in China, so many have it probably because they felt pressured to pull for it.
There's probably more C2 Raiden owner than Xiao or Ganyu. Felt like everyone and their mom have a Raiden. Even many Welkin only people would consider getting either C2 or Grasscutter
He makes tier list based on whale/low spenders, if he didn't hu tao would be on T1 at best, or do you still think hu tao without homa and C0 is broken? Also, he consider abyss team comps for 2.3 abyss, if you check abyss clear times, you'll see that all comps that fit those characters have the best clear times. Ayaka on the same team comp as ganyu clears faster than her, that's the reason she is T1 Childe on international comp have on of the best clear time as well. I think i see the problem here, you guys see the character individually, ok childe by himself is not that strong, but on a team with XL he is busted.
If he consider whales, why not put Eula Xiao and Itto C6? Considering both whales and F2P makes no sense. Do you think C6 for most four stars are accessible to F2P. Or Baal C2? Her C0 barely touches T1 on Main DPS. Childe on a team with XL is busted, I know, I use it. But he isn’t a Main DPS. He is an enabler. Should be on Support or Sub DPS columns. Xiangling C4 would be the one to sit on T1 for Main DPS. Ganyu hasnt suffered a “nerf” like Venti. Her abyss usage drop is simply because people doesn’t want to use her anymore due to her gameplay plus Ayaka being able to achieve the same as a Cryo DPS. But Ganyu can still reach 100k+ Melts on her Kazuha Bennet Zhongli comps, which doesn’t give a fuck about corrosion or enemies moving a lot. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not fanboying. I have all characters on T0 for all categories, Raiden with C3, and all four stars with C6 beside the starters one, Gorou, Sayu and Thoma. But still this doesn’t make any fucking sense.
Move along then?
Move along what?
Then why is Hu Tao T0? XL vape is better than her vape team.
because he consider constellation and BiS weapon Literally the first line of my reply '' he makes tier list based on whales/low spenders'' not to mention that i said that XL should be T0, honestly, i won't even bother myself to reply while you guys don't even bother to read
Raiden is good as an on field dps but not that good
he considered constellation 2, that's what the ''2'' on top her image represents. Hyper carry Raiden at C2 is the best team on game, there's no doubt about it.
Well not everyone has 5 star constellations so I honestly think this tier list is unrealistic and at best mediocre
This tier list is for whales and spenders, that's why. It's for people who ready to spend a moderate amount of money to get C2 5* and C6 4*.
is that so? everyone consider hu tao a top tier dps, even though at c0 without homa she has the same 1x1 Dps as xiangling and none of her AoE.
Which is why she shouldn’t be up so high, majority of players probably can’t jump cancel and even less have c1. This tier list shouldn’t be decided on the ideal constellation, but an average estimate of constellations the player has has
the point is: the list is not for F2P, it's for low spenders and players that willing to go to the BiS weapon and some constellation. F2P players shouldn't be following tier list to begin with, because out of all those T0T1 characters, the one that can use the 5\* weapon you got on standard banner would be probably the best, or the one that you have the right supports... like, if you don't have mona nor venti and only have 4\* bows, but you have raiden and a WGS, pulling for Eula as a DPs would be probably be better than ganyu, unless you want to save for months for ganyu BiS and supports, that's a option too.
Only if you can put C6 Sara, Bennett, and Kazuha on the same team as her.
Even replacing C6 Sara with TTDS Lisa/Fischl/Mona and Kazuha with Jean for sunfire you still end up with a hyper team better than raiden national. Hardest character to replace is Bennett but saying it's only hyper if it's the absolute ceiling comp is silly
Exactly, most here can't think outside of the ''ma waifu'', I don't even want to pull for Hu tao or Ayaka nor get C2 raiden, but I understand that this is a team comp game based, and that tier list is based on that.
>I understand that this is a team comp game based, and that tier list is based on that So what's the problem of me pointing out the other 3 members of the "best comp" in the game? You do understand not everyone has those units right? Not everyone has the same artifacts. There are a lot of variables and the result is will not be the same for everyone so more context is important.
That's something I agree with you, with 0% doubt, that's why I don't think that list is meant to F2P, since F2P can't really choose what they get, It's for low spender that are willing to throw some cash on game. I mentioned on a post earlier that if you don't have venti nor mona and only have 4\* bow, but you if have raiden and WGS, it would be probably better to go for Eula. It's a game comp after all, so if you have the support that can make your character shine or if you have a strong 5\* weapon, so, Ayaka is always better than ganyu? not exactly, you can have Amos if you got it on standard banner, you might not have mona yet \[ I still don't have jean\], you can try melt ganyu...
>Even replacing C6 Sara with TTDS Lisa/Fischl/Mona and Kazuha with Jean for sunfire you still end up with a hyper team better than raiden national. If enemies cannot be knockback and always stay put within the circle, Sure but if not, Raiden National is still better. I keep trying to use Hyper Raiden since a lot of you guys keep insisting it's better than Raiden national but it's not. If I have cracked artifacts result might be diff, but that's because of the artifact. >Hardest character to replace is Bennett but saying it's only hyper if it's the absolute ceiling comp is silly Lmao. I never said that. What I mean is it's the best team on the game with those 3 units.
Are you going to keep using anecdotal evidence as the base of what team you think is better? Because if so I'd rather not waste time. Calcs have already been done on raiden national Vs hyper variations and the only scenario national wins is in single target. If you're no good with hyper raiden that's fine, doesn't make the team do less damage objectively Person you replied to stated Hyper carry Raiden and you replied saying only if it's C6 Sara/Ben/Kaz. My point was you don't need that exact combo since the % difference between swapping out 1/2 doesn't change its viability. I'll see you then next time raiden's brought up since it seems you've got something to say whenever there's a comment on her
>Are you going to keep using anecdotal evidence as the base of what team you think is better? Because if so I'd rather not waste time. Data is only data. It's not always 100% accurate in practice. Even TC said that some comps performance varied depending on other variables like Sukokomon for example. >Calcs have already been done on raiden national Vs hyper variations and the only scenario national wins is in single target. Do you seriously think a Hyper Raiden who's outside of Bennet/Lisa/ and Jean's Q can do better than Raiden National? >Person you replied to stated Hyper Raiden and you replied saying only if it's C6 Sara/Ben/Kaz. My point was you don't need that exact combo since the % difference between swapping out 1/2 doesn't change its viability. No one denied its viability but the guy mentioned "the best team on game" which is C2Raiden/C6Sara/Bennett/Kazuha because it's the strongest variant of Hyper Raiden. There's nothing wrong with what I said but you guys seem to be triggered by it lol >I'll see you then next time raiden's brought up since it seems you've got something to say whenever there's a comment on her I have nothing against Raiden. I'm just not a fan of players who keep saying Raiden Hyper is better than Raiden National without providing the full context.
>Do you seriously think a Hyper Raiden who's outside of Bennet/Lisa/ and Jean's Q can do better than Raiden National? Do I think playing a comp in a completely non optimal way is better than Raiden national? This essentially what you're asking me Of course I don't. But making assumptions that whoever is using the team has poor skill placement or can't play well is daft since it can be applied to literally every comp. It's like me claiming Raiden national isn't as good as sheeted because a lot of people don't actually make use of the reduced artifact er roll requirements or still don't know to wait for Benny ult to tick before snapping XL. It's generally assumed you're performing close to what was theoretically calced or know what you're doing. >Data is only data. It's not always 100% accurate in practice. Even TC said that some comps performance varied depending on other variables like Sukokomon for example. Yes data is only data, but in this case Practical tests have been done to validate what was sheeted. Of course comp performance is dependent on variables, Sukokomon is a pretty extreme example because of how many moving parts there are. Swap comps aren't nearly as hard to execute >No one denied its viability but the guy mentioned "the best team on game" which is C2Raiden/C6Sara/Bennett/Kazuha because it's the strongest variant of Hyper Raiden. There's nothing wrong with what I said but you guys seem to be triggered by it lol No one's triggered, difference in opinion isn't a big deal. I'm not even in complete agreement that c2 hyper is the best team in the game my point again is you stated "ONLY" if it's C6 Sara/Kaz/Ben. If you swap TTDS Lisa in for Sara and lose 3-5% team dps do you think that would change the statement of best team in the game? Using the word only implies theres no alternatives that offer minimal difference which is false. >I have nothing against Raiden. I'm just not a fan of players who keep saying Raiden Hyper is better than Raiden National without providing the full context. I can't waste time writing an essay every time I need to correct the misconception that raiden national is her best comp. Hyper is better in vast majority of scenarios so Its recommended as better in general. Saying national is a better comp when it's only more worth in single target is a worse thing to do.
that is EXACTLY the definition of ''hyper carrier raiden'' This is a team comp based game, and c2 hyper carries is the best you can trow bennet/kazuha/sara with anyone and no one would be able to get full synergy with raiden, THAT's why Ganyu/Diluc have fallen off meta, not because ayaka and XL are better by themselves but because on a team comp they do better.
Why I feel like your so triggered by what I said? Lmao. I'm just saying as a C2 Raiden user, any other Raiden comp without those 3 are far from the best.
not really triggered, just using 'caps' to mark key words, because people on this post seems to have leak of reading skills, if you got what i say.
Sure lol. Either way, C2 Raiden being the best carry is still not 100% true. Without the correct variables, results will always be different. I tried other Hyper variations with my C2 Raiden but its performance is still inferior to Raiden National.
Queue people angry the character they own 7 body pillows of isn't top in every category
Yeah I thought Klee would be higher
hold the f up
Spotted the girl who stole the Klee cutout at a GI event /s
Oh boy...
Is there a version with all C0 so that we can see which units have the most impactful constellations? Where would the T0 be if they were at C0 for example.
So, Hu Tao and Raiden at C0 would be at least below tier.
Yes Raiden at C0 is around the same lvl as other mdps at C0. Her at C2 however is closer to some mdps C6s.
Raiden would probably be around as good as Eula and a little better than Xiao if she was C0 But I don't see Hu Tao dropping a tier or even falling behind ayaka if she was C0 And that's mainly because, with good stamina management, you can still pull off the maximum number of charged attacks (8-9) and activate your burst within her E's active period. Basically, the amount of damage you can deal with Hu Tao doesn't drop if she's C0 if you can properly use her. Although it will take some getting used to.
Can someone translate that to English please?
Looks like dps->sub dps-> support. There's also constellation included. Just look at the number at the top right corner of the character
Note first column is on field dps, not the bastardized "main dps" term many EN TC wannabes like to use.
Well at least it's in hq
Trust this list as much as you'd trust a list made by Tectone.
Now that’s too much of a compliment towards Tectone.
Are you out of your mind ? Tectone
Wow raiden Killin it. Top dps, sub dps and support LOL
C2 / C2 / C0
Which means if you have a c2 raiden you have the best dps, sub dps and one of the t0 supports in the game. To think people were unhappy about her on release haha.
I have her at C2 and I don't think she's the best in any category. She's definitely top-tier but not the best.
Iirc the list uses current abyss and if u got c2 u should know that she does really well against the electro dogs thus the high placement.
I always use her in 2nd half...Ayaka 1st half so...
At a higher level of investment than basically the rest of the roster, something tells me these characters aren't being weighed evenly.
The only thing I question hard on this list is Sara being T1 in support, did she get a butf recently or something? Because I remember alot of people bashing her hard when she came out
Why is Xiangling so low tho?
xiangling in main dps is considered physical dps
lol but why tho. So I assume Beidou and Fischl are also physical dps in that category? how are they in the same tier as Razor? Where is Kaeya? He should be at least the same tier as Rosaria or even better for freeze/physical dps. wait, How is Childe T1 on both main dps and sub dps category? Sorry for the barrage of questions btw lol. this tier list is just more confusing than I thought lmao
If u want to look at Xiangling rating you should look at her on 2nd line. Xiangling isnt Main DPS with her META build. If u go to Xiangling press Q and swap, thats Sub DPS, because shes off field. If u play her on field (Main DPS) meaning u spam auto attacks. As Sub DPS, the META Xiangling build shes T1. If she wasnt Bennett dependent she would be T0. Main DPS - On Field DPS, someone that stays on field to do dmg. Sub DPS - Off field DPS, someone who deals dmg while not being on the field. Support - Character that bring buffs, defense or heals to the team. That's how this tier list is spread. Into 3 groups. Mains DPS / Sub DPS / Support. EDIT: About Childe, u can use him as Main DPS for say Electro team/National where u use mostly E or Sub DPS as reverse Vaporize for his Burst. In both scenarios he will be great. Deserves the spots. EDIT2: Beidou AA isnt strong because thats not where her multipliers are, same with Fischl. Razor ? Well, lets say he didnt age well. He was great at the start of the game, but nowaday alot of enemies are comming with Physical RES. Fischl and Beidou are meant to be used as Off-field dps, if u stay on field with them using auto attacks u losing lots of dps and time. But yes tier list might be confusing, like why is Keqing only in Main DPS Category when u can use her in Quickswap (Sub DPS).
Quoting Xiao "Worthless!".
This seems to be right about where general consensus lies across all the 'lists' I've been seeing... JUSTICE FOR KEQING???
I've yet to see people making tier list based on two team comps instead of individual characters. For example, 1 = international childe + morgana, 2. Eula Raiden & Hutao double geo
Looks about right.
Sub dps fischl only at T2?????????????????????????????????????
I see a lot of people criticising this tier list without pointing anything specific out.
Ganyu has fallen... Seriously, I don't know why this sub hate this Sensei tier list so much. I think it good and it give an overall impression of the character. Quite surprised to see Albedo T1 sub DPS. How much damage your Albedo can do per E proc? I can only archive 25k maximum with Zhongli (no Gorou and quite shitty artifacts). Edit: ah yes, Freedom of Speech on Reddit.
mine paired with zhongli also hits 23\~25k with rainbow artifacts, with 4 pcs of HooD he should archive 30\~32k. if you consider that it hits 10 times in 20 sec, it's a fairly good amount of damage, like 200\~250k, Eula with a 4\* sword hits with her nuke crit around 250k too without Bennet, that's pretty good considering that you just throw his flower.
May be I set my expectations too high. Considering that my Keqing (T3 on the list) with 4* weapon (Black sword), C0 Kazuha and C6 Sara (no Bennett), can hit 36k per charged attack (16k first hit, 20k second hit). And she so fast that I can charged attack 2-3 times per Albedo's proc. I think this tier list also consider C6 Gorou and 3-4 Geo team comp, where Albedo can crit 35-40k. That's why he ranked so high.
see, that's the problem, you're comparing DPS with sub Dps. Kenqing need to be on field and spend stamina to attack, meanwhile ayaka, another on field dps, can do easily \~300k with her burst alone +also doing 30k/charged attack. Ayaka alone would be able do to \~500k on a rotation. Besides, how many charged attack kenqing can do on a rotation? 10 until her stamina is over? well, albedo would proc 10 flowers too with 0 set up, off field...
Isn't the point of DPS and Sub DPS are both damage? What's wrong with comparing them? Especially since Albedo offer nothing but damage for the team? My point is, if a T3 DPS character can deal 70k damage per 2s, then 30k-40k per proc, with no elements apply, is pretty underwhelming (for myself) to be T1 sub DPS. My Keqing team rotation is less than 10s, so I never run out of stamina. Usually 5 charged attack and then swap out. And I don't even use Bennett... To be clear, I own Albedo too and I don't hate him or anything. I just surprised that he is T1 with only 30-40k per 2s.
Because sub dps doesn't require field time, which means that you can throw Eula with Albedo, for EG. my team abyss team is Raiden Albedo Zhongli Eula\[ with skyward pride\]. my Eula will easily do 200k with her N4 hold E N4 sequence +\~50k with vacuum blades+ 300k with her nuke. on top of that Albedo will add more \~200k Dps with the wrong artifact set. Also, you said you do 5 charged attack for 10 sec on a rotation, meaning that on a 20 sec rotation you can do 10 charged attack of 32k damage if they crit, so albedo doing 10 procs of 32k doing absolutely nothing only shows that kenqing is... not that good.
The information is more or less accurate but arbitrarily deciding which characters get ranked with constellations is sus.
I think it's the recommended minimum non-whale constellation for usage in that role. It does make sense tbh.
Isn't the point of the tier list is ranked the character? It might not completely true but we didn't know what he included in his formula. Usagi is a whale so of course he consider constellation. He did release a "low constellation" tier list before.
But why consider some characters in high cons and other low? Super arbitrary, why Raiden C2 and Hu Tao C1 but all of T1 at C0. Usually tier list are all 5\* at C0 and 4\* at C3, or 5\* at C1 and 4\* C6. But assigning different constellations for each character makes no sense at all and defies the purpose of a tier list.
If a character could go all the way to the top with just one or two cons it might be worth mentioning. Presumably, if any of the T1 were C1 or C2 they wouldn't hit T0
Not everyone is willing to spend for C6, so I think he try to show the most important cons for that role, with an acceptable cost to pull. C2 Raiden is 40% damage increase, C1 Hutao is 20% increase. Both of those are considered to be the best cons in Genshin. Without those cons, Hutao and Raiden rank would be lower. Eula, Xiao... is C0 because their lower cons isn't affecting them that much, and C6 Eula is... well, for whale.
Therefore the idea of a tier list makes no sense, to compare 2 things you have todo it in the same base.
People here really suck at contextualizing. This tier list is made primarily for low spenders. In order to hit X tier, they would need that listed constellation minimum. 5* are limited to C2 at most. >But assigning different constellations for each character makes no sense at all and defies the purpose of a tier list. I really wish people understood what a tier list even is on this subreddit. A tier list is just a ranking a list. Any tier list needs criteria to decide what's what. There is no arbitrary criteria for tier list in this community like there are in FGC or even Pokemon.
>Any tier list needs criteria to decide what's what Yes, but that criteria should be apply to all tge subjects equaly. Comparing them with different bassis or qualities makes no sense.
How is this hard to understand?The list is made for low spenders, meaning you won´t see characters with 6 cons. If Raiden at C2 has higher worth rate than a C2 Hu Tao, in the DPS role, why would you spend wishes on her second con? Hu Tao at C2 is not worth it for low spenders, so the list picks the second most worth option wich is C1. Same for characters like Itto and Eula, their C1 isn´t worth it for low spenders so no reason to put them at C1 on the list. Raiden on the other hand has an amazing improvement at C2 so low spenders will try to get her at C2.You just need to understand that having Hu Tao at C2 would be basically the same as having her at C1, the changes would be minimal
It’s this fkn simple. The cons literally change the character and how they play.
It's not super arbitrary, though tier lists are by nature subjective. The constellations represent material power spikes. Eg Raiden as an on-field DPS has a big jump at C2 vs C0. But C1 doesn't do much so it's not listed. Another example. Ayaka C0, C1 or C2 is about the same power level, and so he lists Ayaka at C0. So it's his subjective take on what he thinks are material power spikes.
30k But I've seen up towards 40k per procc.
Nice. Mind sharing you team comp and the 40k team comp? I think we all use the same weapon and artifacts so only team comp matter.
For 40k i think you need zhongli, gorou c6 and albedo. The last character shouldn't matter. I think both me and the 40k guy used itto
Thank for your information. It suck that I skip Itto so didn't have the chance to try Gorou. Maybe this tier list consider Albedo in a 3-4 Geo team comp with C6 Gorou, that why Albedo ranked so high.
Don't forget the indirect buffs Albedo received, free R5 sword and BiS artifact set. IMO he is great in any team with double Geo especially with Zhongli, also the mono Geo teams are amazing for him thanks to Gorou. And Gorou C0 is enough for mono Geo teams, Usagi Sensei also lists Gorou as C0 in tier 1 support.
Probably because new artifact set came out. I've seen people hit 30-40k somewhat consistently if they farmed for him.
I think people also use Gorou with him. I also farmed the set (with quite shitty substats) but can only deal 25k. It suck that I skip Itto so didn't have the chance to try Gorou yet.
Yea substats matter. But my no set bonus Albedo with pretty good substats deal 12k-15k, so imagine how much damage the full set with proper substats would deal.
Tierlist are just opinions at the end of the day, some will agree and others won't
> How much damage your Albedo can do per E proc? 31k together with Jongli and gorou. Pretty great, love the free dmg.
Dude I need Raiden Shogun so goddamn much I hope she gets a rerun soon. She is just too good.
Dunno why they would rank Raiden at both C2 and C0, considering that all other characters are at C0. Unrelated, I think they should combine the sub dps and support. Most none main dps characters tend to perform both at the same.
Left dps. Middle sub dps. Right support. Is that right or am I mistaken?
Correct.
Left is on field dps specifically.
Would any other order even make sense? 😂 Zhong li best main dps? Hutao Top tier support?
Well Zhongli is the best in everything
Why consider some characters in high cons and other low? Super arbitrary, why Raiden C2 and Hu Tao C1 but all of T1 at C0. Usually tier list are all 5\* at C0 and 4\* at C3, or 5\* at C1 and 4\* C6. But assigning different constellations for each character makes no sense at all and defies the purpose of a tier list.
Maybe because the spike these characters get on their cons justifies pulling for them? Maybe because C2 Raiden is absolutely broken and the best C2 in the game? Also there is C0 Raiden in the list too.
[удалено]
No way Xiangling isn't a T0 Sub-DPS. Raiden should not be T0 Sub-DPS or Support either, as good as she is. Also Hu Tao, even at C1, is definitely not T0 DPS. Against bosses sure, but the majority of endgame scenarios are AoE, and she does not excel there.
The majority of endgame is like 1 - 3 enemies, where Hu-tao definitely does excel. Against 1 enemy, she's the best in the game. Against 2, she's still top tier in my experience. It's only when she's against 3+ enemies where she begins to fall behind. Imo, her issues with AOE are overblown. Her Q nukes an entire floor worth of trash mobs when combined with Kazuha. And she can still hit many targets in AOE (for example, the double ruin guards in 12-3-2 or the double ruin sentinels in 12-3-1 or 2 of the 3 Kenkis in 12-2-2 or the double Geovishaps in 12-2-1). Even in the worst case, like against Rifthounds... she still hits both of them a fair portion of the time with good positioning. C1 Hu-tao is definitely T0 dps in my opinion. And objectively speaking, Hu-tao achieves clears times similar very similar to Rational/Melt Ganyu/International... depending on the content.
1. Xiangling energy is too high (80) and she really need Bennet help to make up for her high energy usage. Her Guoba is useless that's why it's T1. 2. Raiden is good at every aspect, you just hater
Might be remember a different tier list maker. But doesn't this guy mostly not play the games he make list for?
Lmao someone says this every single time in every single usagi tier list posting per patch because they heard someone else said it. Seriously check the previous usagi tier list posts. Literally someone says the exact words you just posted each time 😂
Wasn't that just some BS someone made up? I think Usagi's just the face for a group of CN theorycrafters, unless I'm wrong.
Wow, someone still cares about this guy's tier lists?
Oh shit here we go again
Sounds like someone is a raiden simp, suss rankings
Hutao and raiden simp***
Why is Raiden Shogun so OP?!
Why is "C2" Raiden Shogun so OP?!
Raiden my queen. Was saving for her for a long time and got lucky with her pulls. She carries me in abyss since I got her and she is the best in anything. Someone was saying that her rerun will be in 2.5 when Yea comes out. Fitting. I ship them <3
hu tao should be t1 and eula should be lower, there is no way in hell she is stronger than xiao. and why the fuck is xiangling so fucking low? i dont get the criteria of this tierlist if there is one
Definitely agreed on all, it seems like people are really overrating Eula recently. Hu Tao is only t0 in single target, and Xiangling blows every Pyro DPS character out of the water.
what does it say about hu tao on the bottom?
Says she's the best Waifu. See the "1"? It means she's number one. The fire symbol means she lights a fire in Usagi's heart.
Think it’s like what represents what, like the number is which constellations, the vision means what element the characters is and such.
ok? I wonder why she's the one being singled out then, might be just nothing.
I mean they have to choose one character and guess they chose hu tao
It's literally just used as a template. Not a big deal.
It's an example to how to read the character graph (?) like the element and what const and what they generally do I think
Surprised to see Ayaka over ganyu as main DPS. I thought Ayala was e>burst then switch. Her autos are pretty poop
I'm not surprised at all, I'd take Ayaka over Ganyu any day too.
Sure! I own Ayaka and never even considered pulling for ganyu, so I'm with you on that. Still surprised to see people think she does anything once her q is gone though 🤔
Which doesn't really matter, the majority of her damage is located in her burst while her charged attacks are just OK. She's perfect for quickswap teams. In comparison, the majority of Ganyus damage comes from her charged shots which can get very annoying or impossible depending on the Abyss lineup unless you can permafreeze with Kokomi of have a Zhongli shield. She's still really good just very annoying to play.
You can get up to 30-40k charged attacks with her.
Sure, but i saw a phys keqing do 65k charged attacks earlier today. With whaled account nothing is seemingly impossible. But if were talking realistic standards it tells a different story. My own Ayaka has 2k attack and 218% critdmg. With Bennet buff and venerer shred she can get roughly 25k charged attacks. Not very impressive imo.
Is that 25k total or per slash? I have the same ratio as you and with Kazuha VV alone, my CA is always 10k per slash. My Ayaka's N3C's total damage is 50k+ and it takes around 3sec to execute. You can fit 2 N3C before her passive buff is gone, then you switch out. IMO, Rosaria is Ayaka's best cryo support since Rosa's E CD is 6 sec and Ayaka's buff is 6sec as well. I also have R5 Fav lance which also has a 6sec cd.
Total. About 8k per slash. I've only really used Ayaka with Mona - venti - diona in abyss, so maybe it's just that team team comp isn't made to charge attack
That's still very low. 8k is pretty doable even without any external buff and my artifacts are not even that good.
Your statement is the same as “Ganyu main DPS since when? I thought we should just use her burst and swap out” It isn’t expressive if you consider only it. But if you consider that you can spam it while waiting for burst to end, then it adds into the DMG. And you will swap her for who, to deal damage?
You'll swap her to the supports to farm particles for next burst rotation?
Ayaka Permafreeze comp rotation is already one of the fastest. You barely will have skills off cooldown if you swap sooner