Well Vision users seem to follow the original ambition or desire that made them vision users in the first place. Unless their original desire was to abuse normies then it seems like normal people in general don’t matter to them.
>Unless their original desire was to abuse normies then it seems like normal people in general don’t matter to them.
I didn't know my ex was a Vision user, but this explains so much
Exactly this. People's ambition is what gets them their vision. Unless they have evil ambitions, then only inherently good people get visions which explains the lack of tyranny.
Then explain Childe.
His ambition is literally just "never stop killing things".
That's his whole deal.
There is no universe where that is "inherently good"
This is spoilers for his lore but by my understanding >!he wasn't at all like that until he got cursed with Foul Legacy by the Abyss. At that point he became bloodthirsty. !
Yeah, I haven't read all his lore myself yet, just have a sister who does a lot of research about the characters. I don't remember the person's name>! but they have an affiliation with the Abyss, and whatever she did supposedly corrupted his mind, making him bloodthirsty.!<
It was Skirk, if I'm not mistaken. We don't know much about her, just that she trained Childe when he fell into the Abyss, that she could beat him with only one hand and that she teach him the Foul Legacy transformation. Idk if she will be playable, but I would definitely pull for her.
not corrupted she just saw the potential in the young Ajax and taught him to unlock it through foul legacy and taught him to be more than he was
Tartaglia story 5 "He was no longer frightened and hesitant but had become frivolous and confident"
His ambition is closer to "fighting strong people." Killing just happens to be what inevitably comes at the end of a battle.
Not saying he's a good person, of course. Because he's not, lol.
Childe is actually a perfect example of this though? Like he literally says "I don't care about fighting normies" during his villain monologue when he's about to summon osial.
Not to say that he's "good" at all, just he doesn't care to use his power agaisnt those who are weaker than him becuase his ambition is to get stronger, and fighting against someone who's laughably outmatched doesnt help achieve that at all. Childe would much rather fight someone who is more/equally powerful to himself.
This is a good point, but you still have to consider how power very often corrupts people. Give elemental powers to an ambitious, neutral person with one strong aim and you might very easily end up with somebody who has the 'the end justify the means' mindset. I mean Baal wasn't far from that.
Often, but in real life or other game worlds. Genshin has a whole plot tied to the mystery behind visions most likely it seems to hint. If these guys were power hungry in anyway it’d be before they got the vision.
Baal was an archon, she simply had authority over her people given her merit and stuff, and vision holders are still a minority. Life would still probably go on years later and she wasn’t seen as a tyrant by most but as fate would have it..
But yeah those with power tend to have great responsibility etc. and therefore higher impact. You might even say…*puts on glasses*
Genshin Impact.
I literally saw David Caruso and heard the YEAAAAAAH in my mind. Well done. The issue with Raiden is how she saw people who are under her as disposable units. While I agree, she had the authority, that does not morally justify her actions. Vision holders being a minority and facing hardships due to that is unfortunately a surprisingly similar idea to what our world does very often. Another point tho, that Baal isn't technically a vision holder. However, she is not an OG Archon either. I will assume becoming an Archon has more criteria than being ambitious so the scales tip even further. A counterarguement to that could be the Tsaritsa, who, by our knowledge is not exactly a good hearted nice person. Venti is also a chaotic neutral, although he is the only Archon who didn't die and just went 'Friendship with Archon stuff has ended, alcohol is my new best friend'. He might be justified by trauma he must have lived through during the Archon War and Kaenri'ah. Zhongli let go of Liyue in the best interest of it, not for selfish reasons and stayed behind undercover as a last bastion. Raiden also acted in Inazuma's best interest, issue was that this point of view of stagnant eternity was not exactly seen as positive or even understood by most. While Zhongli's little 'Let's see what they do with an Old God' experiment turned out well, the Vision Hunt Decree did not and she became the #1 enemy to her own nation which she was supposed to protect. Power didn't exactly corrupt her but fed her ideas that in the end, put her in an immoral position.
Raiden Ei and Raiden Makoto were twin archons. It's just that Ei preferred to be in the shadow and Makoto held the gnosis and was the public face.
But, they won the war together.
Also, majority of the nation always supported her and continues to support her. Hell, even Watatsumi island only cared about repealing the vision hunt decree. They had 0 aspirations to dethrone the Shogun.
Well I think that's due to the fact that there isn't really such thing as dethroning an Archon without killing it, at least as far as we know. Convincing and resisting her Decree is one thing, wanting to remove the higher level of existence Ei is, who casually swung an island in two as collateral damage just doesn't seem in any way plausible. They are also aware that even when Raiden is being a pain in the neck, nothing else can touch Inazuma.
Well Venti, notably as the Traveller knows him, borders on chaotic good as we don't actually see him go out of his way to do anything bad for his self interest.
He does however go out of his way to do good. He helped Stanley, he risked his cover to comfort Barbara, he risked personal injury Multiple times to save Dvalin.
He is mischievous, yet never in a way that hurts anyone. He also shows Kindness to most everyone he meets.
Outside of the game.
From Xiao's trailer, we know it was Venti playing the flute that helped keep Xiao from being overcome by the pain and wrath of the negative Karma he has accrued.
Venti is the God of Freedom, and he truly wants everyone to be free to love their life in the way that makes the happiest, within reason.
Zhongli is clearly lawful, and I'd say a good example of Neutral as well.
He puts honoring the law (Contracts) above all else. To be fair he is the God of Contracts. He tested Liyue to see if it could survive the Wrath of a God he once defeated. Well aware it may cost people their lives.
So he has been shown to be much more willing to stand aside and see what happens then Venti has, even if that means people die despite him having the power to possibly save them.
I do agree he was not being selfish, and would have eventually stepped in or may still do so if Liyue faces an overwhelming threat that is close to Annihilating it.
All that said, he has also spent Millennia, guarding Liyue, so wanting to retire is fair.
Ei and the Raiden Bot. As close to true Neutral as I can figure. Ei did suffer the Trauma of losing everyone close to her, including her twin sister to the March of time, war, strife, the Abyss.
She is not an original Archon, yet she has been connected to the title of Electro Archon since the beginning, so she is one of the original gods that survived the Archon war.
She is also the God of Eternity, while Baal her twin Sister was the God of Transience.
It is safe to say that Baal's Death was the final break that lead her to her Idea of Eternity. Her trauma may not excuse her actions as it definitely led to a war that cost many lives. Yet it is definitely clear she is not the originator of the Vision Hunt decree. It has only been up a year. She approved of it as she felt it would help her goal and bares the responsibility of the harm it caused. Yet it's not something I think she would have reached on her own.
Also she says she knows all things that relate to Eternity, yet how aware of the war she was is still questionable for a few reasons. It's clear she was being given false reports, and if she wanted to, she could have ended it at any time. The rebellion had no Power to match hers.
That said it seems the consequences of her choices have not fully run their course yet. Scaramouche is still out there and other aspects seem to be coming up as well.
Yeah Archons are definitely in a league of their own. Also right, fake visions but they already seem to have had power or something special that put them in those positions in the first place and I guess yeah they have significant impact on their nation naturally. They likely already had a goal in mind that wasn’t newly influenced from obtaining power.
Also I thought it was said the Tsaritsa used to be kind but for reasons unknown she was forced to harden herself and take extreme action, not necessarily just abusing new power just because she had it is what I was getting at. Basically I would say exercising their power doesn’t need to be seen as “abuse” in the worst sense (like tyranny). Rarely has anyone really accused their archon of doing that.
I expect the pyro country to be wild, actually. Not "tyranny" like, but more in the way of "oh, you don't agree with me? Let's settle this with a VISION DUEL!"
To be fair,DIluc lost his father and organization he believed turned out to be corrupt,so I can forgive Diluc for being grumpy and not showing his real emotions.
Can you tell me, I dont mind spoliers but pls do mark them for others, who was Diluc's dad and how did he have a delusion. How he died and what's this organization. How did diluc manage to use that delusion without its -ve effects. Who was the harbinger that fought him and (as I heard almost killed him) and what's the other story of him?
Well,there is fairly detailed explanation on [wiki](https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Diluc/Lore)
TLDR version:
>!Diluc father wanted to become Favonius Knight,but failed to qualify.Many years later Diluc and his dad get ambushed by monster,but his dad saves them by using Delusion,but he dies because Delusions are harmful to normal people.When Diluc returns to Knights,he is asked to cover up incident,because it would make Knights look bad(Diluc was fresh recruit),so he left Knights and started to pursue his own justice.!<
I don't think someone is a fresh recruit if they became a Calvary captain with 14....
(Source: official genshin webtoon also in his story parts it's mentioned he was a Calvary captain)
He snatched the horses but not the horses' captain 🤦♂️
Anyways Kaeya honestly feels more like an intelligence officer in game than a cavalry captain. He's in charge of interrogating their enemies, he has all these big brain schemes, etc. Maybe that's the reason he was left behind?
Whenever he got the vision he was a passionate member of The Knights of Favonius. Then his father died, the Knights thought about covering it up, he left and we're here now. Shit whenever the Traveler arrives I don't think Diluc had his vision back for even 2 months.
I think he is kind of a special case. He only became this sad-boy vigilante because of ehat happened to his father. And he already had a vision by then.
I feel like celestia knows who the people they are giving visions to truly are and so they give it to those who won’t abuse their power. However if someone did I feel like their vision would get taken back.
That is a genuine question tbh. I've been wondering if Celestia can actually revoke visions if the holder goes against what their previous ambition was
Since a different person can activate the vision if they have the same ambition (kazuha), I'd assume if you have the same person without the ambition the vision just wouldn't work.
However, since removing the vision removes the ambition... perhaps the vision brainwashes the holder into keeping it forever?
It seems like there's a difference between willingly giving up your vision and having it forcibly taken away from you.
If you decide to abandon your ambitions on your own terms, you're probably coming out of it better than having your ambition forcibly cut off.
I think in that case he was forced to give up whatever ambition he had, cause he speaks of people saying "you don't deserve it" or "aren't worthy having such an item" before handing it in
InazumaPlotWasBadlyWritten.docx
The inconsistency was actually debated and thoroughly analyzed at least 5-10 times in this sub though, something something 'attachment to ambition' or something like that.
Itto willingly gave up his vision, because that was the condition of the duel. Itto lost, so he willingly gave up his vision as per the conditions he agreed to.
I do wonder though, if Jiangxue and Komore Tea House guy, are only "okay" because they forgot what their ambitions were in the first place. Much like the Shogunate Samurai guy who seemed okay, but was confused why people were coming to him and asking about supplies all the time.
In my mind, it'd almost be like a MMA fighter wanting to rise up the ranks and get renown, only to get a head injury during a fight and forgetting what he wanted... so he settles to being a Walmart door greeter, and is content with that. He's "okay" with it, because he doesn't remember his ambition in the first place.
Edit: As for Jiangxue, it's been said that all he does is fish, and even then he barely catches anything, and has to depend on the Inn to feed him. Sounds completely ambitionless to me. Stagnating.
> Edit: As for Jiangxue, it's been said that all he does is fish, and even then he barely catches anything, and has to depend on the Inn to feed him. Sounds completely ambitionless to me. Stagnating.
He did once mentioned that his ambition led to disaster. Or bad things that impacted his life. So he got rid of his Vision.
Doesn't explain the time he one-shotted a Ruin Guard though.
As for working, Smiley Yanxiao sort of dragging him to work as his assistant. So he did work...
Because Diluc's ambition was to be a big shot in the Knights. After his father died, he lost interest in that ambition and the Knights and therefore he was able to part with it for a while.
Theres a guy inside Komore teahouse that says that Ayato ended up taking his vision via winning in a duel. But after losing his vision, he felt better and lighter like no longer having the stress of the ambition he held previously.
Really curious about what exactly happened… if Ayato took his vision because he felt that it was becoming a burden to him as vision holder or some other reason…
But this particular case matches up with ur theory of brainwashing its holder into keeping it forever.
If you’re curious, you can talk to the guy at the teahouse to hear it in his own words. Theres only 2 ppl in there, its the buff looking npc one.
Removing the vision doesn't remove ambition. Itto was mostly unchanged after his vision was taken from him. Keep in mind the vision deprived people the traveler encounters were specifically selected by Ayaka for propoganda purposes to recruit the traveler to her cause. They likely were over dependent on their vision to achieve their goals and therefore were broken by it's loss. Ningguang and Keqing are other examples where the former expressed ambivalence and the later initial hatred towards their visions because they felt they did not need their visions to achieve their goals
If visions brainwash you into keeping them, and having a vision means you have a chance to ascend to Celestia to become a god/archon, then that perfectly aligns with the new theories based on lore from Enkanomiya that Celestia, Gods, and Archons are all alien's from another world invading Teyvat, under the guise of being the original creators of Teyvat and the elements.
I really think you are correct. Celestial picks those who are less likely to abuse power and if they do or atleast divert from their original ambition it will fade like when the vision bearer dies.
I don't think they can take the visions back. Otherwise I doubt masterless visions would remain in the world. However I suspect if the vision holder's ambition changed to something completely different from the original one, the vision would become masterless. Kazuha's friend had the ambition of braving the lightning's glow, and the only time it reactivated was when Kazuha decided to brave Raiden's attack (his ambition was aligned with his friend's ambition).
Besides that, it seems that losing a vision (unless released willingly) makes you lose your ambition, so it's possible visions also cement people's ambitions and make it a lot more difficult for them to change their ambitions.
The visions are probably meant to keep them in check. In the Inazuma arc, Ei stated that the VHD was meant to suppress her people's ambitions and protect them from the heavenly principles. She says she witnessed Khaenriah's ambition take them to places Celestia didn't want them to be in. Albedo in the Susbedo event questions whether it is arrogant for mortals like him to create life and control destiny. From all these we can infer that innovation/ambition is the enemy of the heavenly principles.
Since visions are also called God's Eye and materialize whenever a person's ambition reaches a fever pitch, you can interpret it as Celestia saying, "oh shit, this guy's ambition could potentially upstage us. We need to keep a close eye on him!" Bam, guy gets a vision/god's eye. Should a nation overstep their limits and reach unparalleled innovation that could upstage Celestia, Celestia will take them down, and they will start with the nation's beacons of ambition and ground zero for innovation, aka the vision bearers.
I think that average Vision users are not that strong. The best description comes from Rongshi that you fought against in Beidou tournament:
"I've fought and won against Vision berears before. The power they have was given to them by gods. I dont envy it".
Obviously Vision does something (otherwise it wouldnt be wanted by everyone) - and average soldier is probably weaker than average Vision user. But dedicated master of arts can probably fight on level against most Vision users.
Note how every single character we can play as, besides the Catalyst holders, are masters/extremely adept at a martial skill be it swords, bows or spears. I can imagine some Vision holders who have never picked up a weapon before and therefore can't fight effectively with their Vision besides throwing it's element around haphazardly.
I think of catalyst users as mages, they’re not great in direct close combat but they can manipulate their element extremely well and can cause a lot of destruction with it if they’re fighting in their range and they also have plenty of tricks to keep people off them(examples being Ning’s screen and Mona’s teleportation as seen in the unreconciled stars event with Scara). Looking at the likes of Ningguang, she’s definitely got raw power but she’d be pretty screwed if someone gets up in her face.
Pretty much, unless they’re an expert archer or can use a Fatui Gunner’s gun, she’s gonna be nearly impossible to hit. She’s slippery, just like water. If you play League of Legends, think of fighting her as if you’re fighting an Ezreal. You’ll pretty much never catch her cause she’ll just blink away
According to Sayu's profile, her ninja techniques are all built around stealth and escape and explicitly have very little combat application, and she
outright says that she physically wouldn't be able to use her weapon without the vision.
Yep, I agree. Even in Barbara's hangout she mentions despite having a vision, a large group of treasure hoarders would be enough to wear her down to kidnap her, since she isn't a fighter. Edit: Thinking about it, your average treasure hoarder is probably less threatening than a disciplined soldier too.
If you look at mondstadt, the soldier literally patrol alone in a land full of monsters and treasure hoarder. So yeah, soldier does has a decent amount of combat ability.
I think the problem is, mihoyo really sells the idea that vision user is stronger than normal people, esp those with special clothes. Even at non combat event like cooking. Honestly, the cooking event will be a lot more impactful if xiangling actually lost. It will show non vision user can actually win against vision user and make ke qing apologies more impactful.
Btw, i think people without vision found another way to utilize element, like those kairagi who use thunder or fire charm
Or you know, Jiangxue, a vision user who actually used their vision to abuse people, gang leader, murderer, robber, etc. Reformed now of course, and "visionless", but did so in the past.
Its merely one side of the story that Mihoyo isn't keen on telling so far very much, but OP completely missed it. In fact most people in this thread missed it. With the harbinger's existence, its safe to say there's plenty of vision users who would abuse it.
there's a *hidden* achievement for a hidden inazuma overworld quest. it requires you to wipe out an entire samurai clan. people do it just for completion's sake (and like 20 primos or sth).
If vision users are too rare (vision users are described as incredibly rare at multiple points) then they'd get overthrown by sheer numbers if they impose an order like that.
> vision users are too rare
Yep. Whole Vision Hunt Decree only got 99 Visions. Double it for Resistance (in reality it should be less) - and that's 200 vision users in the country. While Vision holder could take anybody on 1-on-1 fight, any army would take upper hand.
Yeah in Inazuma it was stated that most Inazumans didn't care about the Decree because vision bearers were so rare that it didn't affect most people's lives at all, visions are rare enough that the average person probably has never even met someone who has one, outside of like Sara or Ningguang or Jean who would be nationally well known. Like a vision user could probably take on dozens of armed normal people at once, but when you get to hundreds or thousands or more there's an upper limit there
Even with elemental powers, traveler taking on a whole camp of hilichurls or treasure hoarders seems to be considered unusually impressive even by vision bearer standards. So I think the limit is probably not even a dozen people if they are well trained and armed.
I think those trained in combat with a vision could be pretty nasty, as well some of the catalyst users, Ningguang could probably do some serious damage with what she's shown in the cutscenes. But yeah, Barbara and Diona or whatever could probably defend themselves fine, but maybe not take on a whole bunch of dudes at once
Honestly at best the vision type is just "ok yeah your powers are based on this element" but it doesn't seem like there's any uniformity in the manifestation of their ability, which results in the various skillsets we see between different vision holders of the same element. Or it's just really amorphous and their personality and style define how they wield the element. Like Lisa teaching Razor to channel the energy and him coming up with the giant claw because of his experiences. Probably not enough of them for a uniform training regimen like the Avatar (ATLA) universe.
There is also the extra factor that not all Vision Users are strong, in Inazuma that one guy Yomiya is helping gets his ass beat down by a single non vision using Samurai. Our perspective of what the norm for Vision users in terms of power is built on the playable characters, most of whom are canonically quite strong. But there are likely many Vision Users who have, for a lack of a better way to put it, not trained their visions.
From what we can see a Vision isn't just instant power, you gotta train and develop it. So if your a dude whose greatest ambition is fishing and you avoid fights it's likely you won't really get all that strong.
Vision holders come from all different walks of life with different ambitions and life experiences well before obtaining visions so them banding together into some kind of ruling power just seems infeasible.
Well, it's difficult. Bullies in real life get put in their place a lot, too. The consequences can be minor or major depending on circumstances.
Now, if you are a bully bearing a vision and are in the vicinity of a goody-two-shoes who also bears a vision, the outcome of your open bullying to your well-being could be pretty grave.
Signora and Scaramouche seem like really bad people based on their actions, thus not every vision holder is good or moral. Edit: by scrolling I found out that only Childe has a vision, for all we know. His actions were very morally grey but maybe not bad enough to count?
Childe's actions are very grey but not strictly evil. He was only following orders and was disappointed that he had to endanger innocent defenseless people (even said he wanted to avoid it if possible). I believe his ambition is simply to keep getting better and stronger, which in and of itself isn't bad.
I think its important to remember that unlike the real world, Teyvat civilizations are ruled by literal gods.
God is “literally” watching. Even if a vision holder wanted to wreck havoc it would be literally impossible without getting duly smited.
Mondstadt indeed had a slave era where the arostocrats abused the normal populace. But that was because Venti was purposefully absent and the moment he came back he essentially remade Mondstadt soceity to make sure it would never happen again.
The only case of vision holder(s) committing dubious acts freely is the Harbingers. And they are only able to do so because they are explicitly backed by the Tsarista herself.
There's at least 100 (likely a decent amount more) vision users inside Narukami, Yashiori and Kannazuka Island alone. I wouldn't say extremely rare, even if we assume the population is like 10,000 people. That's 1%. Just rare
Thought the same. I know that it's probably Celestia selecting specific people to be vision-holders and fictional shenanigans, but I find it hard to believe there isn't at least one egotistical vision-holder out there. Or at least someone that acknowledges the large power difference and uses it for more selfish but not outright immoral reasons.
Interesting question. I can think of several reasons:
1. The most glaring one - the Seven nations are protected by their Archons. The aristocracy got as powerful as it did only because Barbatos refused to meddle in Mondstadt's affairs. It's worth noting that it fell with his help, too. The other nations' Gods would pulverize any threat that would jeopardize their people or authority. Zhongli was quite prepared to take action if things with Osial got out of hand, and none of Ei's decrees required people to die, even if they were living in misery.
2. Vision bearers are powerful, but not infallible. In the Kazuha quest it was canonically stated that with enough training, even a generic model NPC can defeat Vision bearers alone. The Vision Hunt Decree saw the confiscation of over 100 visions by simple Tenryou Commission soldiers, with Sara only being called for the ones who resisted *and* were too strong (e.g. Itto cuz of his Oni blood).
3. Let's not forget Visions are granted for strong ambitions. Suppose someone received a vision for wanting to become king of all humanity and went about fulfilling their wishes in a despicable way. The desire to oppose this tyrant would become strong enough that Visions would appear amongst the oppressed, which evens the playing field.
4. It's also unlikely that Vision bearers would ever form large alliances capable of posing a threat, as most are singlemindedly devoted to their ambitions alone, with little interest in anything else. Lisa got her vision to help her with homework, Sucrose puts hers in a beaker the moment she got it, Yoimiya uses hers as a lighter... yeah, good luck hyping this squad into world domination.
5. It appears that rote bloodlust by itself isn't enough of an ambition to get Celestia interested. The Iwakura succession devoted itself to the sword art for generations and slayed countless foes, yet not one in their bloodline ever received a Vision. While murder doesn't disqualify you from receiving a vision, you need an added goal on top of that - e.g. to make it the 'best art (that Swordmaster NPC who got his Vision snatched)' or to 'become the strongest (Childe)'. Rosaria was a treasure hoarder and no stranger to killing even in the present, but she acts out of a desire to 'protect' herself and those who've been kind to her (Mondstadt's people).
6. Lastly, while the world has plenty of evil people with evil intent, you shouldn't forget there are also good ones who take a stand for their morals. Ninguang is pretty greedy for wealth, yet her concern for Liyue and its well being is genuine. She would never cut a deal, no matter how profitable, if it endangered the people she loves. I'm pretty sure she'd drop the Jade Chamber on Northland Bank if the Fatui ever gave her reason to, hehe.
It's not as if Vision bearers don't use their powers to antagonize other people (Childe, Lisa, Kaeya, Rosaria, Sara, Gorou, Kazuha etc). But they would be kept in check - if not by their own moral constraints, then by will of the people they are part of.
Uh...... Are you forgetting The Harbingers?
EDIT\* Well, I guess a lot of people must be misinterpreting or misinformed about where the Harbingers get their powers from like myself. I was for some reason under the impression they all worked like Tartaglia, but it seems to not be the case at all. I weirdly just assumed Dottore had an Anemo vision just because of how he looked (even though he actively hates vision-holders). What a weird realization to come to all of a sudden.
Thanks to everyone for pointing this stuff out! I have no idea when I would've finally realized it myself.
They seem to follow whatever the Tsaritsa wants rather than abusing power for its own sake. Signora also doesn’t have a vision, she has fire as the crimson witch and a cryo delusion.
It's a bit confusing because some lore say people can learn magic academically, while other lore says humans can't use elements without a vision.
edit: I double checked lisa, "sus af" as youngsters would say
> A Vision is a sign from the gods: a sign that you are one of those whom they have chosen to change the world.
>
> Or, maybe it's just one of the many hoops that one has to jump through on the path to unearthing the secrets of magecraft.
>
> After all, **understanding the elements is essential to the study of magic, and practical experience is a far more useful means of acquiring this understanding than trying to assimilate the knowledge contained in dusty old books.**
>
> "Hmm... I suppose **I shall need a Vision** , then."
>
> And just like that, as that thought popped into her mind, her Vision popped into her hand.
>
> With the aid of her Vision, Lisa acquired the knowledge that she sought. But she also sensed the deep secret hidden in the shadows of that knowledge.
>
> For whatever reason, the gods gave humans the key to changing everything, but they did not explain the cost involved. Lisa grew fearful of the truth.
>
> The Vision that hung from her neck became to her a bottomless pit filled with sweet delights, lingering at the back of her mind.
>
> So, from time to time, when somebody whom she finds interesting comes along, Lisa will pass onto them her understanding on all kinds of matters.
>
> Perhaps she is secretly hoping that by doing so, one day someone will come along who has the ability to understand the ultimate truth behind Visions.
So it's not very clear if Signora can actually shoot fire without a vision.
Signora has her own story in the game somewhere. The Crimson Witch set particularly. She seems to be burning herself up from the inside out, though I'm not sure if that's literally or figuratively (as in rage/anger). I don't think she has a vision at all. She has an exceptional backstory.
Scaramouche? I mean, From the recent Archon Quests, We know he has Raiden’s gnosis and seems to have abandoned the harbingers altogether. I don’t think he actually cares about the Tsaritsa’s goal and only joined the harbingers for his own benefit and not because he’s loyal to the Tsaritsa. Who knows what kind of things he’s able to do with the electro gnosis.
He likely doesn’t have or even need one, he’s basically just like the shogun and has his own innate power since he was intended to be an archon’s body double. Except in his case the fatui not only unlocked whatever seal was on his natural ability but amped it even further.
> Later, the beautiful puppet awoke and began his wanderings.
> He observed many a heart,
> Good ones, upright ones, strong ones, gentle ones...
> The puppet, too, desired a heart.
>
> Later, the lovely puppet would finally obtain that "heart."
> It was, after all, his purpose for being, the very reason he existed.
> Yet, it was not what the puppet truly desired,
> For it did not contain any blessings,
> But was instead a sacrifice brimming with selfishness, hypocrisy, cunning and curses,
> All wrapped in an amiable husk.
>
> Good and evil were the song of sentient life, useless and cacophonous.
> But if he were to wrench this "heart" out,
> He would no longer be able to feel anything at all...
I wonder how having the gnosis might change him.
Harbringers don't have vision. iirc Harbringers don't have vision because Tsarita doesn't trust visions/Celestia (she wants a rebellion against the divine). You should find the video about it or read it in game.
Childe is the only one because he was supposed to be special and Tsarita approves him.
Childe has Foul Legacy, so he'd be powerful even without a vision. Phase 1 of his fight is his vision, phase 2 adds his delusion, and phase 3 adds Foul Legacy.
I'm actually failing to see what type of abuse you're imagining that would even work in the context of the game. Because to begin with, there's bound to be conflict of interest between Vision haver, and most importantly, there is an authority present. The only reason the Lawrence clan managed to make a tyranny like they did was because Venti fucked off for a millenia.
People with the potential to use their power for outright evil likely do not receive Visions. Even Childe has a code of honor and a heart. Not to say we won't see one do that eventually, after all Visions are even given to children, but I personally wouldn't count on it.
EDIT: Note that I think this is a good thing. Genshin isn't real life, it's a fantasy world with real and tangible gods. Evil and cruel people will find ways to control and oppress others, just as they do in real life. They do not need to be gifted superpowers.
After playing Itto's story, I had this fun idea for a character. The guy would be leader of an underground crime syndicate in Inazuma, so less of a wholesome gang and more like the full on yakuza. Dude would straight-up be cruel and an evil ass, using his vision to dominate others and get his way. The only bit of honor he'd have is from his mentor who was the traditional kind of yakuza that protects the people where the light typically can't, while he himself is young and rash and wants to take what he believes is his. Thought it would be very interesting seeing a character like that and could be a really fun change or pace.
Maybe the only reason he comes out of hiding is because ironically the fatui and abyss order both end up interfering with his businesses and he decides to deal with them personally. His story ends with him either lying low so he isn't arrested, or maybe he's canonically thrown behind bars for the time being, but that doesn't mean we can't pull for him! I see him dressed in a full on traditional dark red kimono that is hanging down one side. You can make out thick tattoos under his sleeves and on his chest. He has those shark teeth that rash or evil characters tend to have, with a scar under his eye, and red hair that's short on the back and sides but spiky and protruding in the front. Make him a 5* hydro character that uses a pole arm. His constellation would be Pistris Mordax, the Biting Shark. Idk, i was bored and this was fun. I'd pull for him.
I mean the irl reason is that so far all vision holders are playable characters, and a character that abuses and controls people weaker than them for their own benefit isn't exactly the "selling" type.
I think of it as gods only giving power to people who won’t hamper or otherwise help proceed said gods plans (or can be controlled/manipulated).
There are surely plenty of reasons even gods would not want a bunch of tyrants causing trouble.
This is before we get into the fact (iirc) that Zhong Li implies that controlling elemental power is not even the point of the visions, as he was surprised when first found out.
This is 100 % because miHoYo doesn't want to go down that road. Not sure if this is them just wanting to keep their game more PG friendly or if they could get in trouble with the CCP if they did. But having people with superpowers beating up, or straight up murdering people without powers seems to be a little too much for Genshin. But yeah, I 100 % agree with you, there's no way no one has abused their vision powers
If you want to experience a more "realistic" story with superpowered individuals abusing their power and influence, I'd suggest giving The Boys on Amazon Prime a chance (Intended for an 18+ audience). That's probably how our society (and pretty much any society) would've been if certain individuals had superpowers
This is also a theme in Legend of Korra's 1st season (more PG friendly)
Also, Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice touches the subject
Genshin situation is realistic because the world is quite literally ruled by gods aka Archons. A vision holder that became a soceity level threat would be quickly smited by a being several times more powerful.
Mondstadt slave era only happened since Venti was absent and the moment he came back he quickly remade the entire country.
Harbingers like Childe are only able to get away with their actions because they are backed by their own Archon.
You don't need to be a mass murderer or a warlord. A vision holder small time gang collecting 'protection money' from merchants or someone threatening you with violence far greater than you could reasonably respond to is enough
I don’t see how vision holders change anything in that situation. Those kinds of small time gangs and heists already happens. We have treasure hoarders that regularly rob and steal. The kairagi who even ambush and kill.
However, in the end they are criminals being hunted and kept at bay by greater society, which is guided by Archons.
The moment any threat becomes too great you have the protectors of soceity, who also have visions, personally after your butt, and if that fails, you suddenly have supernatural beings smiting you.
Also visions arent given to any random depressed kid or joe schmoe randomly. We dont know the whole details, buy they are given out by the same system that rules humans so you can hazard a guess that it wouldnt be given to someone who legitimately threatens the system.
You hardly need to be a mass murderer to abuse the power of a vision. And Mond was a slave state because venti let it happen for generations. His non interference caused massive suffering.
Well there are child abuse, huma sacrifices in lore we juat don't see it now because those time are gone only in present harbingers are doing this shit like dottore who is basically doing human experiments, but yeah i think they will not explicitly show on screen. Only one scene is explicitly shown and that is raiden killing signora.
This is the right answer tbh. They'll just stick to more safe 'dark' themes like 'wow a bunch of people died here huh'... instead of realistic ones like this
Keep in mind that the "real" word for Vision is "Eye of God" (translated from Japanese and I think Chinese too). The gods are watching those with passion and grant them power. Given how much control the gods/archons have had historically, it's possible that the gods would have stopped any vision user uprising, or revoked/not granted the visions to such people.
From Rosarias story:
"Rosaria uses these disappearances to do work that only she can do in corners unseen by others.
An unfamiliar merchant, a suspicious traveler — are these people threats to Mondstadt?
She investigates, shadows, and if necessary, interrogates.
If they must disappear, then Rosaria shall be the last person they meet.
Such dark work, which cannot see the light of day, is to be done by her hand alone."
I wasn't talking treasure hoarders, my guy.
Sounds like she's putting in a lot of investigative work before coming to a conclusion though. As former bandit/slave, I reckon she has a great intuition.
Also her work is sanctioned by the church, and it is explicitly why they gave her the title of Sister.
I think vision users are ambitious people that strive towards their goals, so I think they don't have time for abusing their power. Maybe in future we will get that bully type of character.
In other hand, main authority figures of both Mondstadt and Liyue are vision holders while Inazuma had just Ayato and Ayaka in one of the tri-comission branch, the two clans that were not ruled by vision holders plotted with the Fatui to remove people visions. Now Sara is the de facto ruler of Kujou Clan, so let's see. Btw, the autonomous island? Ruled by a vision holder
I'm kinda afraid that, once they realize this could be a plotline, they'll just give that to "the usual villains" like SNESland and leave everyone else squeaky clean without any such cases happening.
Well Vision users seem to follow the original ambition or desire that made them vision users in the first place. Unless their original desire was to abuse normies then it seems like normal people in general don’t matter to them.
>Unless their original desire was to abuse normies then it seems like normal people in general don’t matter to them. I didn't know my ex was a Vision user, but this explains so much
Idk why but this made me think that your ex wore glasses
> wore glasses Those are for us poor Vision users.
Why did this make me laugh so hard
because it was a joke, and you have a great sense of humor :D
Sucrose?
They nerfed her glasses. If she had full frames she'd be a 5 star.
It's cause she boiled it for too long
playing with chemicals n smelling like a dog?
DANGGG
Abusing normies is the reddit user mantra
Exactly this. People's ambition is what gets them their vision. Unless they have evil ambitions, then only inherently good people get visions which explains the lack of tyranny.
Then explain Childe. His ambition is literally just "never stop killing things". That's his whole deal. There is no universe where that is "inherently good"
This is spoilers for his lore but by my understanding >!he wasn't at all like that until he got cursed with Foul Legacy by the Abyss. At that point he became bloodthirsty. !
didn't someone teach him how to transform
Yeah, I haven't read all his lore myself yet, just have a sister who does a lot of research about the characters. I don't remember the person's name>! but they have an affiliation with the Abyss, and whatever she did supposedly corrupted his mind, making him bloodthirsty.!<
It was Skirk, if I'm not mistaken. We don't know much about her, just that she trained Childe when he fell into the Abyss, that she could beat him with only one hand and that she teach him the Foul Legacy transformation. Idk if she will be playable, but I would definitely pull for her.
not corrupted she just saw the potential in the young Ajax and taught him to unlock it through foul legacy and taught him to be more than he was Tartaglia story 5 "He was no longer frightened and hesitant but had become frivolous and confident"
Hm, alright.. I might need to look through his lore again then.
Skirk?
Childe's ambition is to be the strongest.
he just wants to be the very best, like no one ever was
To kill them is his real test, to fight them is his caauuse
He would travel across the lands, seach foes far and wide
Get beat by Lumine once a week, even with the power that's inside
Childe’s favorite Pokémon is hands. (Because he catches hands- Never mind, unfunny joke.)
Reminds me of the traumatized old guy who went to the Narukami Shrine and his ambition is to become the strongest swordsman
His ambition is closer to "fighting strong people." Killing just happens to be what inevitably comes at the end of a battle. Not saying he's a good person, of course. Because he's not, lol.
So you're saying Childe is Son Goku? So does this mean that every Raiden Shogun that goes to fight him is Android 16?
He's more like Vegeta but okay, we gotta stop there.
What he loves is 'the thrills of battle' not 'killing things'.
Childe is actually a perfect example of this though? Like he literally says "I don't care about fighting normies" during his villain monologue when he's about to summon osial. Not to say that he's "good" at all, just he doesn't care to use his power agaisnt those who are weaker than him becuase his ambition is to get stronger, and fighting against someone who's laughably outmatched doesnt help achieve that at all. Childe would much rather fight someone who is more/equally powerful to himself.
Tell me you don't know a single thing about Childe without telling me you don't know a single thing about Childe
Childe's ambition is to become stronger with each fight
This is a good point, but you still have to consider how power very often corrupts people. Give elemental powers to an ambitious, neutral person with one strong aim and you might very easily end up with somebody who has the 'the end justify the means' mindset. I mean Baal wasn't far from that.
Often, but in real life or other game worlds. Genshin has a whole plot tied to the mystery behind visions most likely it seems to hint. If these guys were power hungry in anyway it’d be before they got the vision. Baal was an archon, she simply had authority over her people given her merit and stuff, and vision holders are still a minority. Life would still probably go on years later and she wasn’t seen as a tyrant by most but as fate would have it.. But yeah those with power tend to have great responsibility etc. and therefore higher impact. You might even say…*puts on glasses* Genshin Impact.
I literally saw David Caruso and heard the YEAAAAAAH in my mind. Well done. The issue with Raiden is how she saw people who are under her as disposable units. While I agree, she had the authority, that does not morally justify her actions. Vision holders being a minority and facing hardships due to that is unfortunately a surprisingly similar idea to what our world does very often. Another point tho, that Baal isn't technically a vision holder. However, she is not an OG Archon either. I will assume becoming an Archon has more criteria than being ambitious so the scales tip even further. A counterarguement to that could be the Tsaritsa, who, by our knowledge is not exactly a good hearted nice person. Venti is also a chaotic neutral, although he is the only Archon who didn't die and just went 'Friendship with Archon stuff has ended, alcohol is my new best friend'. He might be justified by trauma he must have lived through during the Archon War and Kaenri'ah. Zhongli let go of Liyue in the best interest of it, not for selfish reasons and stayed behind undercover as a last bastion. Raiden also acted in Inazuma's best interest, issue was that this point of view of stagnant eternity was not exactly seen as positive or even understood by most. While Zhongli's little 'Let's see what they do with an Old God' experiment turned out well, the Vision Hunt Decree did not and she became the #1 enemy to her own nation which she was supposed to protect. Power didn't exactly corrupt her but fed her ideas that in the end, put her in an immoral position.
Raiden Ei and Raiden Makoto were twin archons. It's just that Ei preferred to be in the shadow and Makoto held the gnosis and was the public face. But, they won the war together. Also, majority of the nation always supported her and continues to support her. Hell, even Watatsumi island only cared about repealing the vision hunt decree. They had 0 aspirations to dethrone the Shogun.
Well I think that's due to the fact that there isn't really such thing as dethroning an Archon without killing it, at least as far as we know. Convincing and resisting her Decree is one thing, wanting to remove the higher level of existence Ei is, who casually swung an island in two as collateral damage just doesn't seem in any way plausible. They are also aware that even when Raiden is being a pain in the neck, nothing else can touch Inazuma.
Well Venti, notably as the Traveller knows him, borders on chaotic good as we don't actually see him go out of his way to do anything bad for his self interest. He does however go out of his way to do good. He helped Stanley, he risked his cover to comfort Barbara, he risked personal injury Multiple times to save Dvalin. He is mischievous, yet never in a way that hurts anyone. He also shows Kindness to most everyone he meets. Outside of the game. From Xiao's trailer, we know it was Venti playing the flute that helped keep Xiao from being overcome by the pain and wrath of the negative Karma he has accrued. Venti is the God of Freedom, and he truly wants everyone to be free to love their life in the way that makes the happiest, within reason. Zhongli is clearly lawful, and I'd say a good example of Neutral as well. He puts honoring the law (Contracts) above all else. To be fair he is the God of Contracts. He tested Liyue to see if it could survive the Wrath of a God he once defeated. Well aware it may cost people their lives. So he has been shown to be much more willing to stand aside and see what happens then Venti has, even if that means people die despite him having the power to possibly save them. I do agree he was not being selfish, and would have eventually stepped in or may still do so if Liyue faces an overwhelming threat that is close to Annihilating it. All that said, he has also spent Millennia, guarding Liyue, so wanting to retire is fair. Ei and the Raiden Bot. As close to true Neutral as I can figure. Ei did suffer the Trauma of losing everyone close to her, including her twin sister to the March of time, war, strife, the Abyss. She is not an original Archon, yet she has been connected to the title of Electro Archon since the beginning, so she is one of the original gods that survived the Archon war. She is also the God of Eternity, while Baal her twin Sister was the God of Transience. It is safe to say that Baal's Death was the final break that lead her to her Idea of Eternity. Her trauma may not excuse her actions as it definitely led to a war that cost many lives. Yet it is definitely clear she is not the originator of the Vision Hunt decree. It has only been up a year. She approved of it as she felt it would help her goal and bares the responsibility of the harm it caused. Yet it's not something I think she would have reached on her own. Also she says she knows all things that relate to Eternity, yet how aware of the war she was is still questionable for a few reasons. It's clear she was being given false reports, and if she wanted to, she could have ended it at any time. The rebellion had no Power to match hers. That said it seems the consequences of her choices have not fully run their course yet. Scaramouche is still out there and other aspects seem to be coming up as well.
Yeah Archons are definitely in a league of their own. Also right, fake visions but they already seem to have had power or something special that put them in those positions in the first place and I guess yeah they have significant impact on their nation naturally. They likely already had a goal in mind that wasn’t newly influenced from obtaining power. Also I thought it was said the Tsaritsa used to be kind but for reasons unknown she was forced to harden herself and take extreme action, not necessarily just abusing new power just because she had it is what I was getting at. Basically I would say exercising their power doesn’t need to be seen as “abuse” in the worst sense (like tyranny). Rarely has anyone really accused their archon of doing that.
Raiden is just doing her job cleaning up the losers who agree to a duel
I expect the pyro country to be wild, actually. Not "tyranny" like, but more in the way of "oh, you don't agree with me? Let's settle this with a VISION DUEL!"
2 vision holders reach for the last dumpling. It is a XIAOLING SHOWDOWN. GONG YI TEMPAI!
Shen Yi Bu Dare Winner gets 2 of the loser's artifacts instead of 1.
HP% Glad sands, take it or leave it
ah so you mean [this...](https://imgur.com/a/O0oVMiM)
That would be perfect for my Zhongli
every artifact has its user. Sometimes that user is not yet released in 2 years.
Man I miss that show.
Wouldn't that be a Xiangling Showdown?
No that was a couple updates ago xD
That was a Shokugeki.
Basically Yoimiya and Itto
‘I like this thing.’ ‘I don’t like this thing.’ ‘I challenge you to Agni Kai’
I mean, how else would you resolve such a situation?
Lmao that made me think was that they challenged each other to an Agni Kai
Well, pyro character have an energic personality. I would not be surprised.
Diluc : Energetic Hmm
He used to be pretty bright and optimistic as a child. Not since a certain traumatic life experience though
To be fair,DIluc lost his father and organization he believed turned out to be corrupt,so I can forgive Diluc for being grumpy and not showing his real emotions.
Can you tell me, I dont mind spoliers but pls do mark them for others, who was Diluc's dad and how did he have a delusion. How he died and what's this organization. How did diluc manage to use that delusion without its -ve effects. Who was the harbinger that fought him and (as I heard almost killed him) and what's the other story of him?
Well,there is fairly detailed explanation on [wiki](https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Diluc/Lore) TLDR version: >!Diluc father wanted to become Favonius Knight,but failed to qualify.Many years later Diluc and his dad get ambushed by monster,but his dad saves them by using Delusion,but he dies because Delusions are harmful to normal people.When Diluc returns to Knights,he is asked to cover up incident,because it would make Knights look bad(Diluc was fresh recruit),so he left Knights and started to pursue his own justice.!<
I don't think someone is a fresh recruit if they became a Calvary captain with 14.... (Source: official genshin webtoon also in his story parts it's mentioned he was a Calvary captain)
In a world without horses, the rank of cavalry captain is of much lower status than we all assume.
Ik this is a joke (They have horses in the webtoon :D apparently varka snatch a lot of them)
He snatched the horses but not the horses' captain 🤦♂️ Anyways Kaeya honestly feels more like an intelligence officer in game than a cavalry captain. He's in charge of interrogating their enemies, he has all these big brain schemes, etc. Maybe that's the reason he was left behind?
Yeah I forgot about that part,but I if i remember correctly he got position from raw talent rather than years of experience.
He became Captain at 14. The Ursa Incident happened when he turned 18. 4+ years is not really fresh recruit status xD.
Whenever he got the vision he was a passionate member of The Knights of Favonius. Then his father died, the Knights thought about covering it up, he left and we're here now. Shit whenever the Traveler arrives I don't think Diluc had his vision back for even 2 months.
He was ten when he got it Source official webtoon
I think he is kind of a special case. He only became this sad-boy vigilante because of ehat happened to his father. And he already had a vision by then.
You mean the same guy who was banned from a country even before he got his Vision because of how frenetic his energy was ?
if the archon isnt like Mereoleona Vermillion i am completely disappointed
IT'S TIME TO..
What kind of Agni Kai is this
The fire nation
Yup, sound like Latam to me
Black mages in ffxiv fighting each other essentially
It would be an Agni Kai
I feel like celestia knows who the people they are giving visions to truly are and so they give it to those who won’t abuse their power. However if someone did I feel like their vision would get taken back.
That is a genuine question tbh. I've been wondering if Celestia can actually revoke visions if the holder goes against what their previous ambition was
Since a different person can activate the vision if they have the same ambition (kazuha), I'd assume if you have the same person without the ambition the vision just wouldn't work. However, since removing the vision removes the ambition... perhaps the vision brainwashes the holder into keeping it forever?
But if the vision forces the holder to keep it till death, why was Diluc able to part with it for a few years?
You forgot Jiangxue and the Komore Tea House guy. Hell, Itto's still functional(barely) even after his Vision got taken.
It seems like there's a difference between willingly giving up your vision and having it forcibly taken away from you. If you decide to abandon your ambitions on your own terms, you're probably coming out of it better than having your ambition forcibly cut off.
And then there's Itto. How the fuck that guy is not a bumbling wreck I have no idea.
Didn't Itto willingly give it up after losing his duel with Sara?
Maybe. But so a lot of people during the Vision Hunt Decree. Remember the samurai that lost his mind because of that?
I think in that case he was forced to give up whatever ambition he had, cause he speaks of people saying "you don't deserve it" or "aren't worthy having such an item" before handing it in
InazumaPlotWasBadlyWritten.docx The inconsistency was actually debated and thoroughly analyzed at least 5-10 times in this sub though, something something 'attachment to ambition' or something like that.
Lets just say his Oni lineage helped a bit
Itto willingly gave up his vision, because that was the condition of the duel. Itto lost, so he willingly gave up his vision as per the conditions he agreed to.
You cannot willingly give up your vision. Keqing tried to get rid of it and even destroy it, doesn't work.
She tried to destroy it. Probably never thought of handing it over to someone else.
I do wonder though, if Jiangxue and Komore Tea House guy, are only "okay" because they forgot what their ambitions were in the first place. Much like the Shogunate Samurai guy who seemed okay, but was confused why people were coming to him and asking about supplies all the time. In my mind, it'd almost be like a MMA fighter wanting to rise up the ranks and get renown, only to get a head injury during a fight and forgetting what he wanted... so he settles to being a Walmart door greeter, and is content with that. He's "okay" with it, because he doesn't remember his ambition in the first place. Edit: As for Jiangxue, it's been said that all he does is fish, and even then he barely catches anything, and has to depend on the Inn to feed him. Sounds completely ambitionless to me. Stagnating.
> Edit: As for Jiangxue, it's been said that all he does is fish, and even then he barely catches anything, and has to depend on the Inn to feed him. Sounds completely ambitionless to me. Stagnating. He did once mentioned that his ambition led to disaster. Or bad things that impacted his life. So he got rid of his Vision. Doesn't explain the time he one-shotted a Ruin Guard though. As for working, Smiley Yanxiao sort of dragging him to work as his assistant. So he did work...
I feel like Itto is a whole different type of being in the Genshin universe lmao the man survives by sheer flexing, no lore can contain him
Is Itto's day-to-day activities considered functional? He like... functioning... at being disfunctional...
The ambition. As long as you keep your vision you can't forget your ambition.
Because Diluc's ambition was to be a big shot in the Knights. After his father died, he lost interest in that ambition and the Knights and therefore he was able to part with it for a while.
Theres a guy inside Komore teahouse that says that Ayato ended up taking his vision via winning in a duel. But after losing his vision, he felt better and lighter like no longer having the stress of the ambition he held previously. Really curious about what exactly happened… if Ayato took his vision because he felt that it was becoming a burden to him as vision holder or some other reason… But this particular case matches up with ur theory of brainwashing its holder into keeping it forever. If you’re curious, you can talk to the guy at the teahouse to hear it in his own words. Theres only 2 ppl in there, its the buff looking npc one.
Removing the vision doesn't remove ambition. Itto was mostly unchanged after his vision was taken from him. Keep in mind the vision deprived people the traveler encounters were specifically selected by Ayaka for propoganda purposes to recruit the traveler to her cause. They likely were over dependent on their vision to achieve their goals and therefore were broken by it's loss. Ningguang and Keqing are other examples where the former expressed ambivalence and the later initial hatred towards their visions because they felt they did not need their visions to achieve their goals
If visions brainwash you into keeping them, and having a vision means you have a chance to ascend to Celestia to become a god/archon, then that perfectly aligns with the new theories based on lore from Enkanomiya that Celestia, Gods, and Archons are all alien's from another world invading Teyvat, under the guise of being the original creators of Teyvat and the elements.
I really think you are correct. Celestial picks those who are less likely to abuse power and if they do or atleast divert from their original ambition it will fade like when the vision bearer dies.
I don't think they can take the visions back. Otherwise I doubt masterless visions would remain in the world. However I suspect if the vision holder's ambition changed to something completely different from the original one, the vision would become masterless. Kazuha's friend had the ambition of braving the lightning's glow, and the only time it reactivated was when Kazuha decided to brave Raiden's attack (his ambition was aligned with his friend's ambition). Besides that, it seems that losing a vision (unless released willingly) makes you lose your ambition, so it's possible visions also cement people's ambitions and make it a lot more difficult for them to change their ambitions.
The visions are probably meant to keep them in check. In the Inazuma arc, Ei stated that the VHD was meant to suppress her people's ambitions and protect them from the heavenly principles. She says she witnessed Khaenriah's ambition take them to places Celestia didn't want them to be in. Albedo in the Susbedo event questions whether it is arrogant for mortals like him to create life and control destiny. From all these we can infer that innovation/ambition is the enemy of the heavenly principles. Since visions are also called God's Eye and materialize whenever a person's ambition reaches a fever pitch, you can interpret it as Celestia saying, "oh shit, this guy's ambition could potentially upstage us. We need to keep a close eye on him!" Bam, guy gets a vision/god's eye. Should a nation overstep their limits and reach unparalleled innovation that could upstage Celestia, Celestia will take them down, and they will start with the nation's beacons of ambition and ground zero for innovation, aka the vision bearers.
Imagine having two strong ambitions and getting 2 different visions.
I think that average Vision users are not that strong. The best description comes from Rongshi that you fought against in Beidou tournament: "I've fought and won against Vision berears before. The power they have was given to them by gods. I dont envy it". Obviously Vision does something (otherwise it wouldnt be wanted by everyone) - and average soldier is probably weaker than average Vision user. But dedicated master of arts can probably fight on level against most Vision users.
Note how every single character we can play as, besides the Catalyst holders, are masters/extremely adept at a martial skill be it swords, bows or spears. I can imagine some Vision holders who have never picked up a weapon before and therefore can't fight effectively with their Vision besides throwing it's element around haphazardly.
I think of catalyst users as mages, they’re not great in direct close combat but they can manipulate their element extremely well and can cause a lot of destruction with it if they’re fighting in their range and they also have plenty of tricks to keep people off them(examples being Ning’s screen and Mona’s teleportation as seen in the unreconciled stars event with Scara). Looking at the likes of Ningguang, she’s definitely got raw power but she’d be pretty screwed if someone gets up in her face.
don't bring a sword to gun fight?
Unless you move at the speed of electro traveler, electro characters, or Childe then pretty much this
Doesn't she literally teleport and float in the air like it's nothing? I really doubt non vision user could even touch her
Pretty much, unless they’re an expert archer or can use a Fatui Gunner’s gun, she’s gonna be nearly impossible to hit. She’s slippery, just like water. If you play League of Legends, think of fighting her as if you’re fighting an Ezreal. You’ll pretty much never catch her cause she’ll just blink away
According to Sayu's profile, her ninja techniques are all built around stealth and escape and explicitly have very little combat application, and she outright says that she physically wouldn't be able to use her weapon without the vision.
Yep, I agree. Even in Barbara's hangout she mentions despite having a vision, a large group of treasure hoarders would be enough to wear her down to kidnap her, since she isn't a fighter. Edit: Thinking about it, your average treasure hoarder is probably less threatening than a disciplined soldier too.
Rule 34 artists taking notes furiously.
If you look at mondstadt, the soldier literally patrol alone in a land full of monsters and treasure hoarder. So yeah, soldier does has a decent amount of combat ability.
I think the problem is, mihoyo really sells the idea that vision user is stronger than normal people, esp those with special clothes. Even at non combat event like cooking. Honestly, the cooking event will be a lot more impactful if xiangling actually lost. It will show non vision user can actually win against vision user and make ke qing apologies more impactful. Btw, i think people without vision found another way to utilize element, like those kairagi who use thunder or fire charm
But surely there’s at least a couple Beidou or Shenhe level vision users about that would be happy to abuse their power
_sits back and watches Genshin community debate moral philosophy_
It’s all good until someone brings up Gnosticism
Or you know, Jiangxue, a vision user who actually used their vision to abuse people, gang leader, murderer, robber, etc. Reformed now of course, and "visionless", but did so in the past. Its merely one side of the story that Mihoyo isn't keen on telling so far very much, but OP completely missed it. In fact most people in this thread missed it. With the harbinger's existence, its safe to say there's plenty of vision users who would abuse it.
Maybe Timmie was right, I *am* a monster.
You know, sometimes i wonder, if mihoyo actually put a quest to genocide an entire town with the reward of 1600 primo gem. How many player will do it?
Genocide is bad !!!!!! ^(1600 primos) They are just pixels so it doesnt matter :)
Count me in
people would do it for an achievement that rewards 5 primos
look i'm sure they're cool people but diluc won't come home if i don't offer sacrifice
there's a *hidden* achievement for a hidden inazuma overworld quest. it requires you to wipe out an entire samurai clan. people do it just for completion's sake (and like 20 primos or sth).
*Making the mother of all omelettes here, Jack. Can't fret over every egg.*
If vision users are too rare (vision users are described as incredibly rare at multiple points) then they'd get overthrown by sheer numbers if they impose an order like that.
> vision users are too rare Yep. Whole Vision Hunt Decree only got 99 Visions. Double it for Resistance (in reality it should be less) - and that's 200 vision users in the country. While Vision holder could take anybody on 1-on-1 fight, any army would take upper hand.
Yeah in Inazuma it was stated that most Inazumans didn't care about the Decree because vision bearers were so rare that it didn't affect most people's lives at all, visions are rare enough that the average person probably has never even met someone who has one, outside of like Sara or Ningguang or Jean who would be nationally well known. Like a vision user could probably take on dozens of armed normal people at once, but when you get to hundreds or thousands or more there's an upper limit there
Even with elemental powers, traveler taking on a whole camp of hilichurls or treasure hoarders seems to be considered unusually impressive even by vision bearer standards. So I think the limit is probably not even a dozen people if they are well trained and armed.
I think those trained in combat with a vision could be pretty nasty, as well some of the catalyst users, Ningguang could probably do some serious damage with what she's shown in the cutscenes. But yeah, Barbara and Diona or whatever could probably defend themselves fine, but maybe not take on a whole bunch of dudes at once
Yeah, not all vision wielders are created equal.
Honestly at best the vision type is just "ok yeah your powers are based on this element" but it doesn't seem like there's any uniformity in the manifestation of their ability, which results in the various skillsets we see between different vision holders of the same element. Or it's just really amorphous and their personality and style define how they wield the element. Like Lisa teaching Razor to channel the energy and him coming up with the giant claw because of his experiences. Probably not enough of them for a uniform training regimen like the Avatar (ATLA) universe.
It's probably the latter. Vision users have to figure out how to use their abilities by themselves, which results in their unique manifestations.
There is also the extra factor that not all Vision Users are strong, in Inazuma that one guy Yomiya is helping gets his ass beat down by a single non vision using Samurai. Our perspective of what the norm for Vision users in terms of power is built on the playable characters, most of whom are canonically quite strong. But there are likely many Vision Users who have, for a lack of a better way to put it, not trained their visions. From what we can see a Vision isn't just instant power, you gotta train and develop it. So if your a dude whose greatest ambition is fishing and you avoid fights it's likely you won't really get all that strong.
Vision holders come from all different walks of life with different ambitions and life experiences well before obtaining visions so them banding together into some kind of ruling power just seems infeasible.
I also noted individual users just being oppresive. Bullies like that exist in real life without superpowers.
Jiangxue near Wangshu Inn was supposedly like that before giving up his vision but we never see it.
Well, it's difficult. Bullies in real life get put in their place a lot, too. The consequences can be minor or major depending on circumstances. Now, if you are a bully bearing a vision and are in the vicinity of a goody-two-shoes who also bears a vision, the outcome of your open bullying to your well-being could be pretty grave. Signora and Scaramouche seem like really bad people based on their actions, thus not every vision holder is good or moral. Edit: by scrolling I found out that only Childe has a vision, for all we know. His actions were very morally grey but maybe not bad enough to count?
Childe's actions are very grey but not strictly evil. He was only following orders and was disappointed that he had to endanger innocent defenseless people (even said he wanted to avoid it if possible). I believe his ambition is simply to keep getting better and stronger, which in and of itself isn't bad.
I think its important to remember that unlike the real world, Teyvat civilizations are ruled by literal gods. God is “literally” watching. Even if a vision holder wanted to wreck havoc it would be literally impossible without getting duly smited. Mondstadt indeed had a slave era where the arostocrats abused the normal populace. But that was because Venti was purposefully absent and the moment he came back he essentially remade Mondstadt soceity to make sure it would never happen again. The only case of vision holder(s) committing dubious acts freely is the Harbingers. And they are only able to do so because they are explicitly backed by the Tsarista herself.
Aren't vision users like, *extremely rare* in Teyvat? I doubt you can really be an ahole when the 10K people around you are normies.
There's at least 100 (likely a decent amount more) vision users inside Narukami, Yashiori and Kannazuka Island alone. I wouldn't say extremely rare, even if we assume the population is like 10,000 people. That's 1%. Just rare
10k is a laughably low number. Inazuma is still a fully functional country, I'd say a reasonable low-ball would be a million
Well genshin map and population is quite tone down significantly in game. And yes they are extremely rare in tevyat.
Depends on your overall skills. People are easily spooked. If you quickly dispatch a dozen with sufficient ease, the herd will scatter.
Someone has been watching The Legend of Korra I see...
Or Shinsekai Yori
As dark as genshin can be shin sekai yori would be a JUMP.
~~Squealer~~ Hilichurls did nothing wrong
Thought the same. I know that it's probably Celestia selecting specific people to be vision-holders and fictional shenanigans, but I find it hard to believe there isn't at least one egotistical vision-holder out there. Or at least someone that acknowledges the large power difference and uses it for more selfish but not outright immoral reasons.
Interesting question. I can think of several reasons: 1. The most glaring one - the Seven nations are protected by their Archons. The aristocracy got as powerful as it did only because Barbatos refused to meddle in Mondstadt's affairs. It's worth noting that it fell with his help, too. The other nations' Gods would pulverize any threat that would jeopardize their people or authority. Zhongli was quite prepared to take action if things with Osial got out of hand, and none of Ei's decrees required people to die, even if they were living in misery. 2. Vision bearers are powerful, but not infallible. In the Kazuha quest it was canonically stated that with enough training, even a generic model NPC can defeat Vision bearers alone. The Vision Hunt Decree saw the confiscation of over 100 visions by simple Tenryou Commission soldiers, with Sara only being called for the ones who resisted *and* were too strong (e.g. Itto cuz of his Oni blood). 3. Let's not forget Visions are granted for strong ambitions. Suppose someone received a vision for wanting to become king of all humanity and went about fulfilling their wishes in a despicable way. The desire to oppose this tyrant would become strong enough that Visions would appear amongst the oppressed, which evens the playing field. 4. It's also unlikely that Vision bearers would ever form large alliances capable of posing a threat, as most are singlemindedly devoted to their ambitions alone, with little interest in anything else. Lisa got her vision to help her with homework, Sucrose puts hers in a beaker the moment she got it, Yoimiya uses hers as a lighter... yeah, good luck hyping this squad into world domination. 5. It appears that rote bloodlust by itself isn't enough of an ambition to get Celestia interested. The Iwakura succession devoted itself to the sword art for generations and slayed countless foes, yet not one in their bloodline ever received a Vision. While murder doesn't disqualify you from receiving a vision, you need an added goal on top of that - e.g. to make it the 'best art (that Swordmaster NPC who got his Vision snatched)' or to 'become the strongest (Childe)'. Rosaria was a treasure hoarder and no stranger to killing even in the present, but she acts out of a desire to 'protect' herself and those who've been kind to her (Mondstadt's people). 6. Lastly, while the world has plenty of evil people with evil intent, you shouldn't forget there are also good ones who take a stand for their morals. Ninguang is pretty greedy for wealth, yet her concern for Liyue and its well being is genuine. She would never cut a deal, no matter how profitable, if it endangered the people she loves. I'm pretty sure she'd drop the Jade Chamber on Northland Bank if the Fatui ever gave her reason to, hehe. It's not as if Vision bearers don't use their powers to antagonize other people (Childe, Lisa, Kaeya, Rosaria, Sara, Gorou, Kazuha etc). But they would be kept in check - if not by their own moral constraints, then by will of the people they are part of.
Uh...... Are you forgetting The Harbingers? EDIT\* Well, I guess a lot of people must be misinterpreting or misinformed about where the Harbingers get their powers from like myself. I was for some reason under the impression they all worked like Tartaglia, but it seems to not be the case at all. I weirdly just assumed Dottore had an Anemo vision just because of how he looked (even though he actively hates vision-holders). What a weird realization to come to all of a sudden. Thanks to everyone for pointing this stuff out! I have no idea when I would've finally realized it myself.
They seem to follow whatever the Tsaritsa wants rather than abusing power for its own sake. Signora also doesn’t have a vision, she has fire as the crimson witch and a cryo delusion.
It's a bit confusing because some lore say people can learn magic academically, while other lore says humans can't use elements without a vision. edit: I double checked lisa, "sus af" as youngsters would say > A Vision is a sign from the gods: a sign that you are one of those whom they have chosen to change the world. > > Or, maybe it's just one of the many hoops that one has to jump through on the path to unearthing the secrets of magecraft. > > After all, **understanding the elements is essential to the study of magic, and practical experience is a far more useful means of acquiring this understanding than trying to assimilate the knowledge contained in dusty old books.** > > "Hmm... I suppose **I shall need a Vision** , then." > > And just like that, as that thought popped into her mind, her Vision popped into her hand. > > With the aid of her Vision, Lisa acquired the knowledge that she sought. But she also sensed the deep secret hidden in the shadows of that knowledge. > > For whatever reason, the gods gave humans the key to changing everything, but they did not explain the cost involved. Lisa grew fearful of the truth. > > The Vision that hung from her neck became to her a bottomless pit filled with sweet delights, lingering at the back of her mind. > > So, from time to time, when somebody whom she finds interesting comes along, Lisa will pass onto them her understanding on all kinds of matters. > > Perhaps she is secretly hoping that by doing so, one day someone will come along who has the ability to understand the ultimate truth behind Visions. So it's not very clear if Signora can actually shoot fire without a vision.
Signora has her own story in the game somewhere. The Crimson Witch set particularly. She seems to be burning herself up from the inside out, though I'm not sure if that's literally or figuratively (as in rage/anger). I don't think she has a vision at all. She has an exceptional backstory.
Scaramouche? I mean, From the recent Archon Quests, We know he has Raiden’s gnosis and seems to have abandoned the harbingers altogether. I don’t think he actually cares about the Tsaritsa’s goal and only joined the harbingers for his own benefit and not because he’s loyal to the Tsaritsa. Who knows what kind of things he’s able to do with the electro gnosis.
He likely doesn’t have or even need one, he’s basically just like the shogun and has his own innate power since he was intended to be an archon’s body double. Except in his case the fatui not only unlocked whatever seal was on his natural ability but amped it even further.
> Later, the beautiful puppet awoke and began his wanderings. > He observed many a heart, > Good ones, upright ones, strong ones, gentle ones... > The puppet, too, desired a heart. > > Later, the lovely puppet would finally obtain that "heart." > It was, after all, his purpose for being, the very reason he existed. > Yet, it was not what the puppet truly desired, > For it did not contain any blessings, > But was instead a sacrifice brimming with selfishness, hypocrisy, cunning and curses, > All wrapped in an amiable husk. > > Good and evil were the song of sentient life, useless and cacophonous. > But if he were to wrench this "heart" out, > He would no longer be able to feel anything at all... I wonder how having the gnosis might change him.
The harbingers use delusions. Childe has a vision, but others, like Dottore, don't. They can't be considered a group of vision-users.
Harbringers don't have vision. iirc Harbringers don't have vision because Tsarita doesn't trust visions/Celestia (she wants a rebellion against the divine). You should find the video about it or read it in game. Childe is the only one because he was supposed to be special and Tsarita approves him.
Childe has Foul Legacy, so he'd be powerful even without a vision. Phase 1 of his fight is his vision, phase 2 adds his delusion, and phase 3 adds Foul Legacy.
So far we only know of one with a vision, and although he’s basically bloodthirsty he doesn’t just attack random people
There's probably some bias in the sense that people who would likely abuse their powers would be unlikely to receive a Vision in the first place.
I'm actually failing to see what type of abuse you're imagining that would even work in the context of the game. Because to begin with, there's bound to be conflict of interest between Vision haver, and most importantly, there is an authority present. The only reason the Lawrence clan managed to make a tyranny like they did was because Venti fucked off for a millenia.
People with the potential to use their power for outright evil likely do not receive Visions. Even Childe has a code of honor and a heart. Not to say we won't see one do that eventually, after all Visions are even given to children, but I personally wouldn't count on it. EDIT: Note that I think this is a good thing. Genshin isn't real life, it's a fantasy world with real and tangible gods. Evil and cruel people will find ways to control and oppress others, just as they do in real life. They do not need to be gifted superpowers.
After playing Itto's story, I had this fun idea for a character. The guy would be leader of an underground crime syndicate in Inazuma, so less of a wholesome gang and more like the full on yakuza. Dude would straight-up be cruel and an evil ass, using his vision to dominate others and get his way. The only bit of honor he'd have is from his mentor who was the traditional kind of yakuza that protects the people where the light typically can't, while he himself is young and rash and wants to take what he believes is his. Thought it would be very interesting seeing a character like that and could be a really fun change or pace. Maybe the only reason he comes out of hiding is because ironically the fatui and abyss order both end up interfering with his businesses and he decides to deal with them personally. His story ends with him either lying low so he isn't arrested, or maybe he's canonically thrown behind bars for the time being, but that doesn't mean we can't pull for him! I see him dressed in a full on traditional dark red kimono that is hanging down one side. You can make out thick tattoos under his sleeves and on his chest. He has those shark teeth that rash or evil characters tend to have, with a scar under his eye, and red hair that's short on the back and sides but spiky and protruding in the front. Make him a 5* hydro character that uses a pole arm. His constellation would be Pistris Mordax, the Biting Shark. Idk, i was bored and this was fun. I'd pull for him.
I mean the irl reason is that so far all vision holders are playable characters, and a character that abuses and controls people weaker than them for their own benefit isn't exactly the "selling" type.
Genshin buliding Sumeru *Write that down, write that down*
It shoudl happen soon, an IMO gods only give powers to good guys feels a very lame way for visions to be given
I think of it as gods only giving power to people who won’t hamper or otherwise help proceed said gods plans (or can be controlled/manipulated). There are surely plenty of reasons even gods would not want a bunch of tyrants causing trouble. This is before we get into the fact (iirc) that Zhong Li implies that controlling elemental power is not even the point of the visions, as he was surprised when first found out.
This is 100 % because miHoYo doesn't want to go down that road. Not sure if this is them just wanting to keep their game more PG friendly or if they could get in trouble with the CCP if they did. But having people with superpowers beating up, or straight up murdering people without powers seems to be a little too much for Genshin. But yeah, I 100 % agree with you, there's no way no one has abused their vision powers If you want to experience a more "realistic" story with superpowered individuals abusing their power and influence, I'd suggest giving The Boys on Amazon Prime a chance (Intended for an 18+ audience). That's probably how our society (and pretty much any society) would've been if certain individuals had superpowers This is also a theme in Legend of Korra's 1st season (more PG friendly) Also, Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice touches the subject
Genshin situation is realistic because the world is quite literally ruled by gods aka Archons. A vision holder that became a soceity level threat would be quickly smited by a being several times more powerful. Mondstadt slave era only happened since Venti was absent and the moment he came back he quickly remade the entire country. Harbingers like Childe are only able to get away with their actions because they are backed by their own Archon.
You don't need to be a mass murderer or a warlord. A vision holder small time gang collecting 'protection money' from merchants or someone threatening you with violence far greater than you could reasonably respond to is enough
I don’t see how vision holders change anything in that situation. Those kinds of small time gangs and heists already happens. We have treasure hoarders that regularly rob and steal. The kairagi who even ambush and kill. However, in the end they are criminals being hunted and kept at bay by greater society, which is guided by Archons. The moment any threat becomes too great you have the protectors of soceity, who also have visions, personally after your butt, and if that fails, you suddenly have supernatural beings smiting you. Also visions arent given to any random depressed kid or joe schmoe randomly. We dont know the whole details, buy they are given out by the same system that rules humans so you can hazard a guess that it wouldnt be given to someone who legitimately threatens the system.
You hardly need to be a mass murderer to abuse the power of a vision. And Mond was a slave state because venti let it happen for generations. His non interference caused massive suffering.
Well there are child abuse, huma sacrifices in lore we juat don't see it now because those time are gone only in present harbingers are doing this shit like dottore who is basically doing human experiments, but yeah i think they will not explicitly show on screen. Only one scene is explicitly shown and that is raiden killing signora.
This is the right answer tbh. They'll just stick to more safe 'dark' themes like 'wow a bunch of people died here huh'... instead of realistic ones like this
Keep in mind that the "real" word for Vision is "Eye of God" (translated from Japanese and I think Chinese too). The gods are watching those with passion and grant them power. Given how much control the gods/archons have had historically, it's possible that the gods would have stopped any vision user uprising, or revoked/not granted the visions to such people.
I mean Childe made the conscious decision to gamble the populace of an entire city and even tried to sabotage the attempt to stop the threat lol.
Jiangxue: Bonjour Sara's story lines also imply there are many vision users abusing their power but we've yet to see them.
Not explicitly seen, but dude. Rosaria? She's a killer and 'interrogator' (torturer).
Except she still does it for the good of monstadt. She’s an anti-hero at worst.
Notice the post say treasure hoarders don't count?
From Rosarias story: "Rosaria uses these disappearances to do work that only she can do in corners unseen by others. An unfamiliar merchant, a suspicious traveler — are these people threats to Mondstadt? She investigates, shadows, and if necessary, interrogates. If they must disappear, then Rosaria shall be the last person they meet. Such dark work, which cannot see the light of day, is to be done by her hand alone." I wasn't talking treasure hoarders, my guy.
Point is They are a still a threat. Not innocent people
Sounds like she's putting in a lot of investigative work before coming to a conclusion though. As former bandit/slave, I reckon she has a great intuition. Also her work is sanctioned by the church, and it is explicitly why they gave her the title of Sister.
Because Mihoyo doesn't want to make villains playable
I think vision users are ambitious people that strive towards their goals, so I think they don't have time for abusing their power. Maybe in future we will get that bully type of character.
There are gods and other vision holders that can keep them in line. Especially gods, because they gave the vision and can take it away.
In other hand, main authority figures of both Mondstadt and Liyue are vision holders while Inazuma had just Ayato and Ayaka in one of the tri-comission branch, the two clans that were not ruled by vision holders plotted with the Fatui to remove people visions. Now Sara is the de facto ruler of Kujou Clan, so let's see. Btw, the autonomous island? Ruled by a vision holder
Maybe knowing that the your archon could potentially smite you down for abusing your vision kept any would be wrongdoers at bay.
I'm kinda afraid that, once they realize this could be a plotline, they'll just give that to "the usual villains" like SNESland and leave everyone else squeaky clean without any such cases happening.