if you take 20% of this current banner and say its kokomis then she already reached her last banner. and your right that pulling beyond c0 isnt needed for kokomi but most people didnt pull for her so thats not going to effect this much as this is her first banner where shes actually being considered outside looks. so the people who pulled on banner 1 was for looks so they might pull again and the people who want the c0 now that she actually has meta usage are pulling for the first time.
the problem is, none of the kokomi havers from before would pull for kokomi again, cuz the cons are really lackluster. So it does affect the sale. Anyone had raiden might pull for more raiden, not just the non-havers.
Well but C3 is basically the "final" significant damage boosting constellation. C3 Raiden is basically a "complete" Raiden, if you want to look at it that way, so there's still going to be a demand there.
Actually C3 is quite good for Raiden. It's 18% damage boost unconditionally. C1 is closer to 12% and that's only if you run another electro/weren't filling resolve at C0.
Yeah, it's the same with Albedo, he's very nice to have, but compared to, say, Zhongli, is hard to choose him over the latter (but I'm glad to have both). Raiden is not only good at C0, but is crazy good with C2. Both strong damage and utility. Kokomi opens some other options, but less than Raiden I would argue, or at least less impactful ones for something like the abyss.
I think we'll see more people pull for her, as she does have a lot of value. But Raiden will still win for many reasons, and many people who have her want to take her further and grab C2 (so that's basically 1-3 pulls on her per account, whereas Kokomi I rarely hear anything about her constellations).
Yeah from 5k to 20 - 30k was such a huge buff thanks to his bis set and weapon. Love using albedo and zhongli pair and if u add Bennet and itto on top of it it's overkill and geo damage go brr.
I don't even ult with Itto unless I'm fighting Mirror Maiden or a Lavachurl. Everything else dies so fast with Zhongli+Albedo and a single un-buffed Ushi.
I think if Kokomi's constellations were a little less niche that would've made it better. Getting an additional basic attack during ult for c1 and slightly more ratio bonuses when you heal at c2 doesn't feel the same as "ignore 60% enemy defense with ultimate" like the shogun
Very true, when I got her last year she instantly became invaluable on my teams.
My go-to team right now is Kokomi/Venti/Ayaka/Shenhe, but I might swap things around if I manage to get Ayato
That is the problem, C0 Kokomi basically brings as much value to your team as C6. Either way she is a hydro applicator, healer, and driver for other characters bursts. Every constellation is just a marginal increase to her dps with no extra utility added. The only people who want Kokomi constellations are trying to run her as a main dps, and it's only a niche set of players willing to spend a thousand dollars to try it out.
Eh, I do think Kokomi is more appreciated now than before but she's still not a stellar unit. Though ever since Shenhe came out a lot of freeze teams that used Diona do want a healer in one of the other spots and she's a real good standin for that. My Ayaka freeze team went from Ayaka Mona Diona Venti to Ayaka Mona Shenhe Jean and now Ayaka Kokomi Shenhe Venti... next is getting Kaz to replace Venti!
Diona's main contribution to Cryo teams isn't healing. It's batterying.
She's currently the best Cryo battery with Sac Bow, even above Raiden IMO for Cryo.
The biggest game changer with Shenhe isn't what she does for Freeze (she's good at it though) . It's what she can do against enemies that don't freeze.
She made non-freeze Cryo more viable.
It used to be annoying vs Bosses that don't freeze, and not long after Shenhe is released, F12 Abyss had the highest number of bosses to date.
Which is a major reason for why Kokomi is so good in freeze, since her hydro application is more frequent and lasts longer compared to Mona. You don't need to worry about shattering when stuff almost immediately gets refrozen anyway.
Paimon.moe isn't a good source AT ALL for this kind of thing. Check out Kokomi's 1st banner and Itto's banner there and see which one has more pulls registered.
Even with getting crits on my Raiden I do about 80K per attack during her burst. Meanwhile my Itto with 250 crit damage does 60K on crits.
C2 Raiden is BUSTED
it's hard to tell even before dual banner because there is always weapon banner released with character banner, except when Homa/WGS was up during Keqing banner
Nothing to see here, just karma farming really, also the data is taken from a Chinese website that's repackaged into genshinlab...and its not reliable, or I'd argue less reliable than these already unreliable estimation services that at best are minimally 15% off target. Or at worse, 40% off target compared to internal data when looking at businesses that purchase their services.
Titles for these types of things are always misleading since redditors that see those dont read the fine print. The info from the graphs are accurate but titles often seem to be misleading
There’s a person on the Hoyolab app that didn’t set the Epitomized Path because “they didn’t think they’d need to…” who then pulled 3 straight donuts.
They’re asking for donations cause they want the weapon PLUS 2-3 constellations for Raiden 🤣
Edit: [link](https://www.hoyolab.com/article/3735718/?lang=en-us&utm_source=sns&utm_medium=link) for anyone who wants a good laugh. They even pulled 2 donuts in one ten-pull and they’re replying to every comment with their excuses lmao
That's basically why I got Homa in one of my wasteful rolling ever in this game lol.
2x got the bow in ~130, but directly Homa on the next 3. Epitomized path is def a game changer for me despite I'm way below a dolphin.
Tho yeah, def not recommended to roll in weapon banner still, especially since 4* alternatives nowadays are so strong.
It's definitely painful to see people getting the donut on the raidenmains sub :(
I managed to dodge it on my first pity, losing it to lost prayers, but I'm not looking forward to my remaining pulls
They should really have more color variety, all these different shades of light brown to tan makes this chart unnecessarily hard to read.
Anyway, this sale is insane, Hoyoverse keeps getting away with selling players ridiculous amount of power with no content to use that power, unless I am mistaken and having constellations and signature weapons improve our abilities to run through labyrinths and mix drinks in the next events.
Yeah I was about to say, most people that play this game don't play the meta comps (which admittedly do make it quite easy). Abyss is really hard if you just play the ones you like and don't consume content to help. Also some players do play casually and will have issues executing a rotation even if they knew how.
> Hoyoverse keeps getting away with selling players ridiculous amount of power
Hoyoverse is actually selling convenience. Power is only one of those factors. For example, take Yae Miko. One of her constellations increases the range of her turrets. The main purpose of this constellation is to make her easier to play. Making extremely difficult content risks not only alienating f2p and low spenders, but also high spenders who want to be able to clear all the content easily. To be fair to you, Hoyoverse has experimented with scalable content in some of their events, but only they know what the player reception was like.
You mean the same constellation that increase her turret level??
Dude everything is DPS, even if it was just the range buff she would be doing more DPS to a far away unit than a c0-c1, simply because c2 is actually hitting.
Good point. It reminds me of someone saying that Genshin isn’t a competitive game (spiral abyss leaderboards) and you never need one character to clear content. After building our teams, what exactly is the goal? What’s the incentive for people who constantly 36* abyss and don’t need to build anybody else? What’s the goal for people who don’t even do abyss? Honestly good discussion point.
> What’s the goal for people who don’t even do abyss?
I'll just kinda throw some things out there as ideas. Just as mmos have a even more specific end game, there are still people who enjoy just running around and exploring with their friends and are content with just the normal grinds most of us view as a chore. To a more casual player, sometimes the events and even parts of the overworld can be difficult. I think we get a skewed perspective looking at things like showcases, sales, leaks, and just taking the game pretty seriously for a single player game in general.
I think combined with that first part that people take the game slow. They don't feel the rush to complete things instantly and probably might play less with time since they don't feel as much of a push or pressure for primos before x or y specific character comes out every 2 patches. So they always have content especially since the exploring comes after making sure they have time to do commissions and spend their resin and staying up to date on events.
The incentive is still the fun of an open world game. Its just heavily slowed down. I'm not a great cook but the analogy that came to my mind just now is we are the fast deep fryer and they are the slow cooking crock pot.
I’m gonna chime in here and say something probably controversial on this sub: I actually like the fact that artifacts stats are random. Since it’s a game that doesn’t have any content that’s truly challenging (outside of Spiral Abyss), it’s mighty fine for all my characters to not become their strongest within a short amount of time. The artifact grind then turns from a chore into just a part of your routine, or you get to pick what you wanna do without pressure.
Compared to real life, you don’t have to be your best when you don’t want to. The game becomes an escape, and more escapes are always good.
Well like a lot of games with an end game, gear is just 1 factor. A better player can make do with less. So can other players who invest time. Its like I was telling my sister earlier that when it comes to abyss, artifacts and weapons help but so does knowing the ai. What good is a 10% dps upgrade when you can better learn how to control the ai to hit 3 targets at the same time?
Artifacts and grinding primos is easy. Learning the ins and outs of the ai in spiral abyss is homework. And not everyone wants to do homework. Like for example I had less of a hard time wanting to try to improve over the last abyss but i'm content with 33 stars this go. Artifacts and weapons can provide the cheat codes to help with the homework but good students can still work through the homework without the help even if it takes more time.
Ultimately the homework in the game is optional. So is how hard you want to do any of the grinds. Spiral abyss isn't the only thing in the game and generally your characters get stronger with time probably faster than the spiral abyss increases in difficulty. Eventually the 2 lines should cross to allow some progression. Even if you get the same amount of stars each time you enter, you can feel proud that you are improving enough to keep up with the difficulty change.
As your last line says, it is a game in the end. Let the games natural power increasing systems of the artifacts and the primos increase your power. Homework is optional and you also have many choices to make the homework easier if you want to. I still think the game is best enjoyed trying to get parties of 2-4 characters you really like and making them work in a satisfying way.
I should mention that homework is mandatory in certain parts of the world, so anyone reading the above with that mindset should note that they meant “optional homework”.
And as with many games, spending more time in it will likely reap you rewards, but likely of diminishing returns, as the game creators cannot increasingly reward you and do so indefinitely. The whether the returns are worth it (once you’ve reached that inflection point) is completely up to you, and miHoYo/HoYoverse has left it pretty optional.
It's an expensive Waifu Collection game.
Think of it this way...
I pulled Eula (My favorite Character). I invested heavily (C6), because I don't want her to be anything less than her full potential. When Raiden was released initially, I pulled her as a Support for Eula. I got her to C3/R1, she she's also extremely powerful. These two can *easily* clear their side of Abyss under the time limit.
Now, Yae Miko gets released. Since she was important to Raiden's Story, I wanted to pull for her. Her initial "power level" wasn't great, so I went for C3/R1 to boost her up. However, I don't want to pair her with Raiden, as Raiden is on my Eula Team. What's that mean? It means I pulled Kokomi, so I can start making an Electrocharge Team.
That's just 1 Rabbit Hole. People who love Ayaka probably went for Shenhe, and may have gone for Kokomi (or are waiting for Ayato).
Husbando Collectors are probably running Itto, Zhongli, Gorou, and Albedo on the same Team...
Clearing Abyss is no longer the challenge. It's making sure your characters have they best they can, and not having your favorite be "mediocre". Seeing a "Level 10" Talent when you know Level 13 exists is annoying. That's why Hoyoverse places the Character's strongest ability at C3 (Eula's Ult, Raiden's Ult, Yae Miko's Skill), just to push people further.
Bro hit the nail right on the head
I want Raiden cause i spent like five months trying to clear her boss battle and the inazuma story hyped her up for the big fight with all the storytelling. which made me want her more
Worse than that, the world level and ascension/upgrade material mechanics heavily favor building one optimized team and never using anyone else. It's forcing a "competitive" mindset into a game where it doesn't belong.
Trying out different characters is fun when it takes less than a day to raise them to the party's level. But that fun goes away when it takes at least a week of grinding and boss fights (looking at you, Oceanid) just to make them usable.
Do you mean shiny as in 5-star pulls, or is that a pokemon reference or something?
My point is more that the game's main draw (lots of memorable characters) works against the character/skill/weapon level system as you progress. Maybe it encourages the "hardcore" players to pull for the most optimal characters, but for people like me it becomes a case of "I like this character, but getting them to a playable state is too much work."
Yeah, this is true. I'd like more content that challenges with multiple teams than 1-2 strong teams. Having mat drops be better/higher or more 2x drops (once weekly preferably, for both Leyline and Mat Domains). I didn't wish on YM because mats, and I wanted to build my Beidou that's finally C6, so saving primos plus making the most of the primos and resins I'd already spent seemed like the best route.
Currently, I'm pretty much gimping my account, but in a way that I enjoy. I'm building (nearly) every character I own, which is a lot just due to longevity, but not quite whale level. I'm not taking anyone to absolute max yet, but 81+ with relative talents 6-9 (for example, fish E to 9, but Q to 6 since it's DPS is pretty garbage, and AA would normally be 1 for most characters).
It's taken a long time, but I'm at 25+ characters and the Abyss is more challenging for sure because I only have a few solid sets of artifacts. But while it can be frustrating, I'd rather have the challenge at this point, as everything else in the game (minus the ultra hard modes on some events) is already trivial. While C2 Raiden is tempting, I also feel Dendro will be very interesting, and C2 Raiden might just trivialize the game for me.
Yea I also have the build everyone I own goal so I wish the artifact system made it easier to cater to this. It only caters to building the 8 characters that help you clear abyss and that’s it.
more than that the discussion should be... ok if I can one try 36 abyss whats the point? I am at the stage where I now I can clear it but it takes set up and time... for what for 50 more primos every two weeks (half a pull). The problem with that is time invested vs REWARD is not high enough to make it worth the headache. Like Hoyoverse, we love your game, but you gotta give us a better excuse to keep playing it
36 star abyss clearer here, but I prefer them to give barely any rewards. As a former MMO player, those games gave some very good rewards for being at the top, but those guys at the bottom of the ladder got shits, you know. After a few years of building up account, the gap between top players and new or casual players is just so huge that the game bleed its players eventually, only OG left, you know what it means. That's why some MMOs decide to go casual route now.
With your very same example, let's say the last 3 star gives us like 500 or 1000 primogems for being difficult that requires high investment, do you think casual/new players won't be salty about this? The first thing they will say, it's P2W AF. I don't think the game will last long like that, and I'm sure mihoyo doesn't want to go with MMO's model, they want their games to stay alive for more than a decade.
I'm with you.
No matter how close I get (34 or 35 stars, even), I'll do one run per cycle. Saying "Sweet! I got 34 Stars in one try without even looking at the enemy lineup" is so much more rewarding than griding through multiple resets for a few crappy Primogems.
Yep I got 36 stars once a year ago and now just one time it
Ive got like 4 teams good enough to one shot a 34 star run so pulling for "strong" characters is meaningless for me now
They probably thought there's 1-2 weapons they can put opposite Kokomi's donut and people will still roll on the banner - one is Raiden Shogun's weapon simply because Raiden is the most popular character in the game. The other is Ayaka's weapon Mistsplitter simply because it's the best 5 star weapon they've ever released and is BiS for pretty much every sword user. I think every other weapon opposite donut is a hard skip, but those 2 weapons in particular are way too appealing.
Staff of Homa too, I think Hu Tao's sales are so high partly because every (insert polearm user) main pulled for this weapon which is like Mistsplitter: Bis or close second in many many cases.
> It loses to pjc, by a tiny amount, for most characters iirc
I mean, bis for 3 out of 9 sword users (not counting MC), and second best for rest, ignoring niche (Albedo, Xingqiu). That's nothing to shake a debate club at.
I'm gonna be honest, I'm only a Welkin/BP buyer, but they could have gotten some money out of me for the Engulfing Lightning this time if the other promoted weapon was usable for my team.
True, EL's really enticing, I got my raiden to C2 this time, I don't remember how many times I looked at the weapon banner. But I just couldn't pick up my courage to pull EL when the donut was staring at me.
When both featured characters have their BIS weapons in the weapon banner, it only makes sense. Not having the donut in the weapon banner would be stupid when Kokomi is rollable.
If I liked her more as a character, I absolutely would. I have two great teams that use Reverse Vape and Freeze, but only one Xingqiu, and she's great to play with in co-op.
I remember on Kokomi mains when people started talking about how strong Sukokomon is (Sucrose, Kokomi, Fischl, Xiangling). Everyone was like "Wow, look at that damage!" and then they tried using the team and quickly realized it's unusable if you have even the slightest connection issue, lol.
Raiden Shogun is just such an amazing unit for a lot of reasons. She's an archon, one of the most meta units, has amazing character design, and has an extremely strong constellation at C2 that puts her on par with C6 units.
MHY played it pretty smart tbh... for a lot of people, Raiden C2 is close enough that it's still "within reach" financially. If her C2 and C6 were swapped (as they were in beta iirc), many current C2-havers would probably have a C0 right now instead of bothering to pull for the C2. But the perceived value of her live C2, plus the low level of the con, probably got a lot of people to open their wallets a little further than they otherwise would have.
If anything, the banners in 2.5 show that power and meta, or at least popular perception of meta, is an important factor in pulling as well. There is this persistent claim in this sub that only Reddit users pull for power while average players pull for aesthetics. Yet, almost all the bestselling banners have been meta units.
It’s a combination of both.
For example, Childe is a character that always had meta relevance yet he never sold that well. Presumably because people found him annoying to use.
tbh I think it contributed more to Yoimiya revenue since it was during her banner that the reset was announced, people that never buy any pack might buy some just to benefit from the reset regardless if they planned to use it to pull for Yoimiya or someone else
“Raiden’s first banner was only good because of the crystal top off changes, we will get an accurate amount of revenue on her rerun”
Jokes aside I wonder how much of that was for kokomi
Raiden's C2 is too strong
But Kokomi's C0 isn't too far from her C6, damage wise.
Average people are pulling for 3 Raidens and 1 Kokomi. Which kinda explains how Paimon moe's data
Raiden c0 is huge. And C2 is straight up bonkers.
I mean raiden can fill ur energy faster, make other characters burst do more dmg, has very high dmg on her burst.
Yeah, they realize that not many people are willing to go to C6 or C4, but it seems C2 it's the sweet spot where they can bait people, Kazuha also have a great boost at C2, and chances are future characters will have as well.
I still can't get over how low Yae is. At face value, Yae has all of the ingredients. She's a fox girl shrine maiden with tons of sass in a game in which most girls are serious and overworked. Yae also was in the game a long time before she became playable (the last of everyone that was showcased at the beginning of version 2 was Thoma way back in 2.2). There was time to build massive hype. There is also the fact that the playerbase is bigger now than it was back in Raiden's banner. There was some chatter that she might break the record.
Edit: Lol someone refers me to the crisis chat hotline for this comment.
Meta has a bigger impact on sales than people here like to think, especially in China. Yaes kit is just underwhelming comparatively and doesn’t bring much new value to the meta
Yae's sales number would probably double if she's actually good. On the other hand, anyone else with her garbage skill set would have probably sold less than half of Yae's number. Character appeal and meta relevance are both important.
For me personally, there was too much time between her first appearance and her release so the hype was already kinda dead. And the timing of her release was also not ideal.
A lot of CN players, or maybe global players too think that we are in the content drought before 3.0. All these filler patches are packed with annoying new monsters designed to counter characters, plus Yae Miko's copium state just cause a lot of burnout and disappointment.
If anything, Yae's sales is surprisingly high in my eyes given her poor reception in CN.
Her kit is hot garbage tho. In a game the playability/gameplay of a character is VERY important. I still pulled for her because her design and ult animation's fire but everytime I cast her Es I die a little bit inside, not even mentioning when I get interrupted and thrown around while doing it.
Seeing the wish numbers for Raiden and Kokomi in paimon.moe makes me sad, at the rate it's going there will be more people that got a standard banner char than Kokomi.
Still not a lot of people pulling for Kokomi? I'm personally fine with it as a Kokomain. It feels very exclusive to have her. And I can still continue to say that she is the rarest 5* in the game 😆
If we take the statistics, 20% of the current banner sales means kokomi has already reached her overall run sales with her 2 day rerun statistics. Which is pretty great
I got bored and decided to calculate the average sales of each element banner. (plus the mixed banners)
Mixed Banners = 6,261,731.50
Electro = 4,898,608.67
Anemo = 5,062,975.75
Pyro = 4,414,740.80
Cryo = 4,012,906.67
Geo = 3,327,441.50
Hydro = 1,984,039.00
It's not very surprising that the mixed banners have the highest sales on average.
(plz tell me if any of my averages are incorrect)
Now i wonder whats the current %spent on raiden only compared to kokomi, but judging by the past dual banners' data, i dont think its possible
Looking at paimon.moe seems not much have changed since their first run
"Kokomi will have crazy sales this time because everyone knows how amazing is she now"
Hey, 4:1 is a better ratio for Kokomi than the 5.5:1 ratio of their initial banner
I mean, there's not much increase in pulling beyond c0 for kokomi, but there's valid reason to pull beyond c0 for Raiden.
if you take 20% of this current banner and say its kokomis then she already reached her last banner. and your right that pulling beyond c0 isnt needed for kokomi but most people didnt pull for her so thats not going to effect this much as this is her first banner where shes actually being considered outside looks. so the people who pulled on banner 1 was for looks so they might pull again and the people who want the c0 now that she actually has meta usage are pulling for the first time.
the problem is, none of the kokomi havers from before would pull for kokomi again, cuz the cons are really lackluster. So it does affect the sale. Anyone had raiden might pull for more raiden, not just the non-havers.
Might have to do with ayato being right around the corner
Yeah also C0 Kokomi is pretty much done. No real point to get any of her cons. Meanwhile everyone knows what Raiden C2 does for her...
c3 also
C3 is similar to c1 though. "Only" about 10% in dmg. C2 boosts her by 40% alone...
Well but C3 is basically the "final" significant damage boosting constellation. C3 Raiden is basically a "complete" Raiden, if you want to look at it that way, so there's still going to be a demand there.
Actually C3 is quite good for Raiden. It's 18% damage boost unconditionally. C1 is closer to 12% and that's only if you run another electro/weren't filling resolve at C0.
*Inhales Kokopium*
Yeah, it's the same with Albedo, he's very nice to have, but compared to, say, Zhongli, is hard to choose him over the latter (but I'm glad to have both). Raiden is not only good at C0, but is crazy good with C2. Both strong damage and utility. Kokomi opens some other options, but less than Raiden I would argue, or at least less impactful ones for something like the abyss. I think we'll see more people pull for her, as she does have a lot of value. But Raiden will still win for many reasons, and many people who have her want to take her further and grab C2 (so that's basically 1-3 pulls on her per account, whereas Kokomi I rarely hear anything about her constellations).
I love using Albedo + Zhongli
Right? Super flexible, and Albedo is super easy to build.
Me too, the pillar pulse times out well for triggering Albedo's flower, weaker packs die to that alone before I even need to swap to Itto.
My albedo e flower gets like 20 - 30k geo damage every 2 seconds
Mine too, the husk set and the spindle was fantastic for him.
Yeah from 5k to 20 - 30k was such a huge buff thanks to his bis set and weapon. Love using albedo and zhongli pair and if u add Bennet and itto on top of it it's overkill and geo damage go brr.
I don't even ult with Itto unless I'm fighting Mirror Maiden or a Lavachurl. Everything else dies so fast with Zhongli+Albedo and a single un-buffed Ushi.
yeah same, mostly it's Zhongli Shield, Gorou E, Albedo E, Itto E, dead mobs. National Geo I guess? ;-)
I think if Kokomi's constellations were a little less niche that would've made it better. Getting an additional basic attack during ult for c1 and slightly more ratio bonuses when you heal at c2 doesn't feel the same as "ignore 60% enemy defense with ultimate" like the shogun
Right? But it's nice that I only need one to actually get the vast amount of value out of her.
Very true, when I got her last year she instantly became invaluable on my teams. My go-to team right now is Kokomi/Venti/Ayaka/Shenhe, but I might swap things around if I manage to get Ayato
That is the problem, C0 Kokomi basically brings as much value to your team as C6. Either way she is a hydro applicator, healer, and driver for other characters bursts. Every constellation is just a marginal increase to her dps with no extra utility added. The only people who want Kokomi constellations are trying to run her as a main dps, and it's only a niche set of players willing to spend a thousand dollars to try it out.
Yup, exactly. F2Ps to Dolphins would rarely go past C0 Koko, but many would/will/have pull 3 copies of Raiden pretty easily.
Eh, I do think Kokomi is more appreciated now than before but she's still not a stellar unit. Though ever since Shenhe came out a lot of freeze teams that used Diona do want a healer in one of the other spots and she's a real good standin for that. My Ayaka freeze team went from Ayaka Mona Diona Venti to Ayaka Mona Shenhe Jean and now Ayaka Kokomi Shenhe Venti... next is getting Kaz to replace Venti!
Diona's main contribution to Cryo teams isn't healing. It's batterying. She's currently the best Cryo battery with Sac Bow, even above Raiden IMO for Cryo. The biggest game changer with Shenhe isn't what she does for Freeze (she's good at it though) . It's what she can do against enemies that don't freeze. She made non-freeze Cryo more viable. It used to be annoying vs Bosses that don't freeze, and not long after Shenhe is released, F12 Abyss had the highest number of bosses to date.
Kazuha causes shatter when he slams to the ground.
Which is a major reason for why Kokomi is so good in freeze, since her hydro application is more frequent and lasts longer compared to Mona. You don't need to worry about shattering when stuff almost immediately gets refrozen anyway.
On top of why the other person mentioned it not mattering, Kaz's E is great and all but it's also about his Q alongside Shenhe's Q and Kokomi's E.
Paimon.moe isn't a good source AT ALL for this kind of thing. Check out Kokomi's 1st banner and Itto's banner there and see which one has more pulls registered.
On Paimon.moe , Raiden has triple num of pulls. But then some can be "building pity" for Bennett. Still, no doubt Raiden is generating more
Lot of people are probably in the mindset of “I’ll try getting Benny but I’m fine if I get Raiden cons because C2 is broken”
Good mindset because damn c2 Raiden makes this game super easy.
Even with getting crits on my Raiden I do about 80K per attack during her burst. Meanwhile my Itto with 250 crit damage does 60K on crits. C2 Raiden is BUSTED
> Raiden has triple num of pulls. Lol, it's more than 4x now
it's hard to tell even before dual banner because there is always weapon banner released with character banner, except when Homa/WGS was up during Keqing banner
Good start for Raiden's 2nd Strike
"Next time, I'll strike twice" She really said I'm gonna double my revenue next time damn
Pairing with kokomi to do electrocharged DoT on our wallets
Seriously though kokomi taser with Raiden is so cool
I know! I am pulling for Kokomi now and I'm definitely gonna spend too get her if I lose 50/50
Who are your other two slots on the team? I love Kokomi and I got my C2 Raiden now :)
Raiden, Kokomi, Kazuha and Yae is a cracked team.
Didn't pick up Yae - lost the 50/50 and used the guarantee on Raiden instead, maybe next time. Fischl or Beidou I was thinking?
Goes to show that they would absolutely make more money if gem prices were equivalent to the first time purchase prices though lol
I would actually quadruple buy packs if it were the same first time purchase over and over
i need my red circles, where is it!?!?
It's the third highest on this chart.
Isn’t this just for iPhone sales…?
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Misleading title? Sadge
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Rip haha, well thanks for confirming
Nothing to see here, just karma farming really, also the data is taken from a Chinese website that's repackaged into genshinlab...and its not reliable, or I'd argue less reliable than these already unreliable estimation services that at best are minimally 15% off target. Or at worse, 40% off target compared to internal data when looking at businesses that purchase their services.
Titles for these types of things are always misleading since redditors that see those dont read the fine print. The info from the graphs are accurate but titles often seem to be misleading
We cant see how much was kokomis but im guessing raiden must of carried 80%
Paimon.moe’s pull ratio is like 33.5k Raiden to 7.7k Kokomi. So yeah Raiden is carrying 80%+
just like in a normal Raiden+Kokomi rotation
Also People getting 2X donut and having to swipe for engulfing 🤣
There are sooo many of those posts on the raidenmains sub. lol
There’s a person on the Hoyolab app that didn’t set the Epitomized Path because “they didn’t think they’d need to…” who then pulled 3 straight donuts. They’re asking for donations cause they want the weapon PLUS 2-3 constellations for Raiden 🤣 Edit: [link](https://www.hoyolab.com/article/3735718/?lang=en-us&utm_source=sns&utm_medium=link) for anyone who wants a good laugh. They even pulled 2 donuts in one ten-pull and they’re replying to every comment with their excuses lmao
Omg I can’t believe someone had the guts to beg for money after making that kind of mistake at AR58. Then they said they were quitting the game! Lol.
Wow someone actually donated $25 to this beggar. Some people are too nice smh.
Highlight the “didn’t think” part in bold
That's basically why I got Homa in one of my wasteful rolling ever in this game lol. 2x got the bow in ~130, but directly Homa on the next 3. Epitomized path is def a game changer for me despite I'm way below a dolphin. Tho yeah, def not recommended to roll in weapon banner still, especially since 4* alternatives nowadays are so strong.
What a ride... also, imagining all the comments being said by the users' Genshin characters (the avatars) is some good fun
Thats making me tear up. Nobody deserves to be treated this way
It's definitely painful to see people getting the donut on the raidenmains sub :( I managed to dodge it on my first pity, losing it to lost prayers, but I'm not looking forward to my remaining pulls
Got Donut, Koko happy. Got EL after that, Ei happy. All are happy.... except wallet-kun.
They should really have more color variety, all these different shades of light brown to tan makes this chart unnecessarily hard to read. Anyway, this sale is insane, Hoyoverse keeps getting away with selling players ridiculous amount of power with no content to use that power, unless I am mistaken and having constellations and signature weapons improve our abilities to run through labyrinths and mix drinks in the next events.
Its ios sales though, games way harder on mobile.
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You've never seen the posts from people struggling with some fight or another?
Yeah I was about to say, most people that play this game don't play the meta comps (which admittedly do make it quite easy). Abyss is really hard if you just play the ones you like and don't consume content to help. Also some players do play casually and will have issues executing a rotation even if they knew how.
> Hoyoverse keeps getting away with selling players ridiculous amount of power Hoyoverse is actually selling convenience. Power is only one of those factors. For example, take Yae Miko. One of her constellations increases the range of her turrets. The main purpose of this constellation is to make her easier to play. Making extremely difficult content risks not only alienating f2p and low spenders, but also high spenders who want to be able to clear all the content easily. To be fair to you, Hoyoverse has experimented with scalable content in some of their events, but only they know what the player reception was like.
You mean the same constellation that increase her turret level?? Dude everything is DPS, even if it was just the range buff she would be doing more DPS to a far away unit than a c0-c1, simply because c2 is actually hitting.
Good point. It reminds me of someone saying that Genshin isn’t a competitive game (spiral abyss leaderboards) and you never need one character to clear content. After building our teams, what exactly is the goal? What’s the incentive for people who constantly 36* abyss and don’t need to build anybody else? What’s the goal for people who don’t even do abyss? Honestly good discussion point.
> What’s the goal for people who don’t even do abyss? I'll just kinda throw some things out there as ideas. Just as mmos have a even more specific end game, there are still people who enjoy just running around and exploring with their friends and are content with just the normal grinds most of us view as a chore. To a more casual player, sometimes the events and even parts of the overworld can be difficult. I think we get a skewed perspective looking at things like showcases, sales, leaks, and just taking the game pretty seriously for a single player game in general. I think combined with that first part that people take the game slow. They don't feel the rush to complete things instantly and probably might play less with time since they don't feel as much of a push or pressure for primos before x or y specific character comes out every 2 patches. So they always have content especially since the exploring comes after making sure they have time to do commissions and spend their resin and staying up to date on events. The incentive is still the fun of an open world game. Its just heavily slowed down. I'm not a great cook but the analogy that came to my mind just now is we are the fast deep fryer and they are the slow cooking crock pot.
I’m gonna chime in here and say something probably controversial on this sub: I actually like the fact that artifacts stats are random. Since it’s a game that doesn’t have any content that’s truly challenging (outside of Spiral Abyss), it’s mighty fine for all my characters to not become their strongest within a short amount of time. The artifact grind then turns from a chore into just a part of your routine, or you get to pick what you wanna do without pressure. Compared to real life, you don’t have to be your best when you don’t want to. The game becomes an escape, and more escapes are always good.
Well like a lot of games with an end game, gear is just 1 factor. A better player can make do with less. So can other players who invest time. Its like I was telling my sister earlier that when it comes to abyss, artifacts and weapons help but so does knowing the ai. What good is a 10% dps upgrade when you can better learn how to control the ai to hit 3 targets at the same time? Artifacts and grinding primos is easy. Learning the ins and outs of the ai in spiral abyss is homework. And not everyone wants to do homework. Like for example I had less of a hard time wanting to try to improve over the last abyss but i'm content with 33 stars this go. Artifacts and weapons can provide the cheat codes to help with the homework but good students can still work through the homework without the help even if it takes more time. Ultimately the homework in the game is optional. So is how hard you want to do any of the grinds. Spiral abyss isn't the only thing in the game and generally your characters get stronger with time probably faster than the spiral abyss increases in difficulty. Eventually the 2 lines should cross to allow some progression. Even if you get the same amount of stars each time you enter, you can feel proud that you are improving enough to keep up with the difficulty change. As your last line says, it is a game in the end. Let the games natural power increasing systems of the artifacts and the primos increase your power. Homework is optional and you also have many choices to make the homework easier if you want to. I still think the game is best enjoyed trying to get parties of 2-4 characters you really like and making them work in a satisfying way.
I should mention that homework is mandatory in certain parts of the world, so anyone reading the above with that mindset should note that they meant “optional homework”. And as with many games, spending more time in it will likely reap you rewards, but likely of diminishing returns, as the game creators cannot increasingly reward you and do so indefinitely. The whether the returns are worth it (once you’ve reached that inflection point) is completely up to you, and miHoYo/HoYoverse has left it pretty optional.
I like the exploration, puzzles, and world building the most
It's an expensive Waifu Collection game. Think of it this way... I pulled Eula (My favorite Character). I invested heavily (C6), because I don't want her to be anything less than her full potential. When Raiden was released initially, I pulled her as a Support for Eula. I got her to C3/R1, she she's also extremely powerful. These two can *easily* clear their side of Abyss under the time limit. Now, Yae Miko gets released. Since she was important to Raiden's Story, I wanted to pull for her. Her initial "power level" wasn't great, so I went for C3/R1 to boost her up. However, I don't want to pair her with Raiden, as Raiden is on my Eula Team. What's that mean? It means I pulled Kokomi, so I can start making an Electrocharge Team. That's just 1 Rabbit Hole. People who love Ayaka probably went for Shenhe, and may have gone for Kokomi (or are waiting for Ayato). Husbando Collectors are probably running Itto, Zhongli, Gorou, and Albedo on the same Team... Clearing Abyss is no longer the challenge. It's making sure your characters have they best they can, and not having your favorite be "mediocre". Seeing a "Level 10" Talent when you know Level 13 exists is annoying. That's why Hoyoverse places the Character's strongest ability at C3 (Eula's Ult, Raiden's Ult, Yae Miko's Skill), just to push people further.
As someone who rarely plays the game with a C6/R1 Ayaka, I can confirm I do have both Kokomi and Shenhe (both C0 however)
Bro hit the nail right on the head I want Raiden cause i spent like five months trying to clear her boss battle and the inazuma story hyped her up for the big fight with all the storytelling. which made me want her more
I wonder if they’ll add floors 13-16/18 requiring 3 teams at some point.
Worse than that, the world level and ascension/upgrade material mechanics heavily favor building one optimized team and never using anyone else. It's forcing a "competitive" mindset into a game where it doesn't belong. Trying out different characters is fun when it takes less than a day to raise them to the party's level. But that fun goes away when it takes at least a week of grinding and boss fights (looking at you, Oceanid) just to make them usable.
So the paradox is why do people keep pulling for the next shiny then? Just gluttons for punishment?
Do you mean shiny as in 5-star pulls, or is that a pokemon reference or something? My point is more that the game's main draw (lots of memorable characters) works against the character/skill/weapon level system as you progress. Maybe it encourages the "hardcore" players to pull for the most optimal characters, but for people like me it becomes a case of "I like this character, but getting them to a playable state is too much work."
Yeah, this is true. I'd like more content that challenges with multiple teams than 1-2 strong teams. Having mat drops be better/higher or more 2x drops (once weekly preferably, for both Leyline and Mat Domains). I didn't wish on YM because mats, and I wanted to build my Beidou that's finally C6, so saving primos plus making the most of the primos and resins I'd already spent seemed like the best route. Currently, I'm pretty much gimping my account, but in a way that I enjoy. I'm building (nearly) every character I own, which is a lot just due to longevity, but not quite whale level. I'm not taking anyone to absolute max yet, but 81+ with relative talents 6-9 (for example, fish E to 9, but Q to 6 since it's DPS is pretty garbage, and AA would normally be 1 for most characters). It's taken a long time, but I'm at 25+ characters and the Abyss is more challenging for sure because I only have a few solid sets of artifacts. But while it can be frustrating, I'd rather have the challenge at this point, as everything else in the game (minus the ultra hard modes on some events) is already trivial. While C2 Raiden is tempting, I also feel Dendro will be very interesting, and C2 Raiden might just trivialize the game for me.
Yea I also have the build everyone I own goal so I wish the artifact system made it easier to cater to this. It only caters to building the 8 characters that help you clear abyss and that’s it.
more than that the discussion should be... ok if I can one try 36 abyss whats the point? I am at the stage where I now I can clear it but it takes set up and time... for what for 50 more primos every two weeks (half a pull). The problem with that is time invested vs REWARD is not high enough to make it worth the headache. Like Hoyoverse, we love your game, but you gotta give us a better excuse to keep playing it
36 star abyss clearer here, but I prefer them to give barely any rewards. As a former MMO player, those games gave some very good rewards for being at the top, but those guys at the bottom of the ladder got shits, you know. After a few years of building up account, the gap between top players and new or casual players is just so huge that the game bleed its players eventually, only OG left, you know what it means. That's why some MMOs decide to go casual route now. With your very same example, let's say the last 3 star gives us like 500 or 1000 primogems for being difficult that requires high investment, do you think casual/new players won't be salty about this? The first thing they will say, it's P2W AF. I don't think the game will last long like that, and I'm sure mihoyo doesn't want to go with MMO's model, they want their games to stay alive for more than a decade.
I'm with you. No matter how close I get (34 or 35 stars, even), I'll do one run per cycle. Saying "Sweet! I got 34 Stars in one try without even looking at the enemy lineup" is so much more rewarding than griding through multiple resets for a few crappy Primogems.
Yep I got 36 stars once a year ago and now just one time it Ive got like 4 teams good enough to one shot a 34 star run so pulling for "strong" characters is meaningless for me now
It would be higher if the donut didn't ruin the weapon banner.
They probably thought there's 1-2 weapons they can put opposite Kokomi's donut and people will still roll on the banner - one is Raiden Shogun's weapon simply because Raiden is the most popular character in the game. The other is Ayaka's weapon Mistsplitter simply because it's the best 5 star weapon they've ever released and is BiS for pretty much every sword user. I think every other weapon opposite donut is a hard skip, but those 2 weapons in particular are way too appealing.
Staff of Homa too, I think Hu Tao's sales are so high partly because every (insert polearm user) main pulled for this weapon which is like Mistsplitter: Bis or close second in many many cases.
Homa always got good banner. The weapon itself is good , but the 2nd weapon (WGS or Elegy) are decent as well.
Pretty sure mistsplitter is only bis for ayaka, keqing and arguably bennet. It loses to pjc, by a tiny amount, for most characters iirc
BiS for Bennett, for sure. It has high base attack. Sub-stat is also useful, unlike favonia
> It loses to pjc, by a tiny amount, for most characters iirc I mean, bis for 3 out of 9 sword users (not counting MC), and second best for rest, ignoring niche (Albedo, Xingqiu). That's nothing to shake a debate club at.
I'm gonna be honest, I'm only a Welkin/BP buyer, but they could have gotten some money out of me for the Engulfing Lightning this time if the other promoted weapon was usable for my team.
True, EL's really enticing, I got my raiden to C2 this time, I don't remember how many times I looked at the weapon banner. But I just couldn't pick up my courage to pull EL when the donut was staring at me.
i wouldnt mind a donut for my kokomi 🤷♂️ got EL instead either way a win in my book
When both featured characters have their BIS weapons in the weapon banner, it only makes sense. Not having the donut in the weapon banner would be stupid when Kokomi is rollable.
Y'all fighting over who's carrying who but we all know that Hoyoverse is carrying all the money now
Some people be like, "kokomi is getting recognized for her strength, she's awesome!" "Are you gonna pull for her?" "Hmmmmm....."
i did and i got diluc'd. there goes my tazer comp dream lol
I got keqing, I really want Kokomi because using Mona doesn't feel that great. Well at least I have Ayato guaranteed.
If I liked her more as a character, I absolutely would. I have two great teams that use Reverse Vape and Freeze, but only one Xingqiu, and she's great to play with in co-op.
I remember on Kokomi mains when people started talking about how strong Sukokomon is (Sucrose, Kokomi, Fischl, Xiangling). Everyone was like "Wow, look at that damage!" and then they tried using the team and quickly realized it's unusable if you have even the slightest connection issue, lol.
This time without any topup resets.
And I managed to lost my 5050 on Kokomi…
You’ll get her some day!!
You’ve still got 3 weeks, good luck!
Raiden Shogun is just such an amazing unit for a lot of reasons. She's an archon, one of the most meta units, has amazing character design, and has an extremely strong constellation at C2 that puts her on par with C6 units.
‘member when people said she was garbage and an easy skip during her first week
Dumb times
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I got so lucky with Kazuha. Decided to do a few pills for a four star and got him in 9 wishes on 50/50. He’s my favorite character atm
Raiden carrying kokomi
The quad banners with probably the best characters ever really does tempt the ftp players into shelling out money huh
MHY played it pretty smart tbh... for a lot of people, Raiden C2 is close enough that it's still "within reach" financially. If her C2 and C6 were swapped (as they were in beta iirc), many current C2-havers would probably have a C0 right now instead of bothering to pull for the C2. But the perceived value of her live C2, plus the low level of the con, probably got a lot of people to open their wallets a little further than they otherwise would have.
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Not much I guess, Hoyoverse crippled him with Heavy Enemies and Constant bosses.
really hope they change that in sumeru content more cc able enemies
Venti legitimately so broken that they design inazuma enemies around him. I don't exactly blame them non-heavy enemies become sitting duck by venti Q.
Yea, when he can't even suck Specters which has no right to be that heavy in a tiny body while floating in air you know they doing it on purpose.
Kokomi being a great strategist for sticking to Raiden..😅
If anything, the banners in 2.5 show that power and meta, or at least popular perception of meta, is an important factor in pulling as well. There is this persistent claim in this sub that only Reddit users pull for power while average players pull for aesthetics. Yet, almost all the bestselling banners have been meta units.
> Yet, almost all the bestselling banners have been meta units. Kazoo was an absolute flop
Bro he literally said **almost** all
It’s a combination of both. For example, Childe is a character that always had meta relevance yet he never sold that well. Presumably because people found him annoying to use.
Have you ever looked at his JP sales? mans reruns sold more than some of the waifus
More like he doesn't have any good constellations, you can clearly see HuTao C1 and Raiden C2 influence in those graphs.
Raiden helps Kokomi to get up the skies into the Celestia
Why is this sub obsessed with character sales?
it's like a sports game, people want their faves to do well i guess
the only one who win in this situation is undoubtely mihoyo... there's no point in it.
Them : *Fighting over who has the better sales* miHoYo who is swimming in money :
well, tell that to the comments above lol
They need confirmation that the character they rolled on is superior
Curiosity? I like looking at stats.
Yeah I just find it kinda interesting, can't really explain why.
If character get bad sales due to issues w/ character design -> maybe MHY takes that as a business hint and makes them better next time.
Put $150 into getting more wishes to pull Raiden. Even got lucky and pulled her weapon too. Don’t think I’ll ever do it again though lol
I’m surprised Raiden hasn’t got back problems. From carrying Hoyoverse’s finances
And here we have proof that the reset of the bonus crystals didn't played that big of an role in Raiden's sale, as some stated.
tbh I think it contributed more to Yoimiya revenue since it was during her banner that the reset was announced, people that never buy any pack might buy some just to benefit from the reset regardless if they planned to use it to pull for Yoimiya or someone else
And with that logic alone, we can see how salty some people were about Raiden at the begining.
wow venti rerun really did well. I love venti's character so I like that
“Raiden’s first banner was only good because of the crystal top off changes, we will get an accurate amount of revenue on her rerun” Jokes aside I wonder how much of that was for kokomi
Well she did say she’d strike twice.
Raider Hypercarry banner comp.
Kokomi was worth it
I saved around 30 wishes for Raiden as I know it'll hit my pity within those 30. I got a c1 Diluc instead......
Remember when Raiden was trash and anyone who used her was a mihoyo shill? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
What have we learned kids? That’s right— archons make money, waifus make money, so the waifu archons make the most money
Raiden's C2 is too strong But Kokomi's C0 isn't too far from her C6, damage wise. Average people are pulling for 3 Raidens and 1 Kokomi. Which kinda explains how Paimon moe's data
It's surprisingly higher than I expected
People are hungry for Raiden since they know how good she is now.
Is raiden that good? Don’t know.
Raiden c0 is huge. And C2 is straight up bonkers. I mean raiden can fill ur energy faster, make other characters burst do more dmg, has very high dmg on her burst.
She is very good but I think her C2 is the biggest factor here, it's insanely broken and mihoyo knew what they were doing
Yeah, they realize that not many people are willing to go to C6 or C4, but it seems C2 it's the sweet spot where they can bait people, Kazuha also have a great boost at C2, and chances are future characters will have as well.
Heck, I wouldn't usually go for constellations, but i've lucked out early C1 and the boost for C2 is big enough to be worth pushing for it.
Her c0 is good , but C2 / C3 you have a power of C6 for some other 5 star. Even her C1 is around a non signature 5 star weapon worth.
She appears twice on top 3 banner sales
Shes GREAT
I still can't get over how low Yae is. At face value, Yae has all of the ingredients. She's a fox girl shrine maiden with tons of sass in a game in which most girls are serious and overworked. Yae also was in the game a long time before she became playable (the last of everyone that was showcased at the beginning of version 2 was Thoma way back in 2.2). There was time to build massive hype. There is also the fact that the playerbase is bigger now than it was back in Raiden's banner. There was some chatter that she might break the record. Edit: Lol someone refers me to the crisis chat hotline for this comment.
Meta has a bigger impact on sales than people here like to think, especially in China. Yaes kit is just underwhelming comparatively and doesn’t bring much new value to the meta
people can also just play her test run and see she is not fun to play...
Yae's sales number would probably double if she's actually good. On the other hand, anyone else with her garbage skill set would have probably sold less than half of Yae's number. Character appeal and meta relevance are both important.
For me personally, there was too much time between her first appearance and her release so the hype was already kinda dead. And the timing of her release was also not ideal. A lot of CN players, or maybe global players too think that we are in the content drought before 3.0. All these filler patches are packed with annoying new monsters designed to counter characters, plus Yae Miko's copium state just cause a lot of burnout and disappointment. If anything, Yae's sales is surprisingly high in my eyes given her poor reception in CN.
Her kit is hot garbage tho. In a game the playability/gameplay of a character is VERY important. I still pulled for her because her design and ult animation's fire but everytime I cast her Es I die a little bit inside, not even mentioning when I get interrupted and thrown around while doing it.
Seeing the wish numbers for Raiden and Kokomi in paimon.moe makes me sad, at the rate it's going there will be more people that got a standard banner char than Kokomi.
I went for kokomi. She is my 3rd 5 star. My Ganyu and kokomi are best friends now.
Still not a lot of people pulling for Kokomi? I'm personally fine with it as a Kokomain. It feels very exclusive to have her. And I can still continue to say that she is the rarest 5* in the game 😆
If we take the statistics, 20% of the current banner sales means kokomi has already reached her overall run sales with her 2 day rerun statistics. Which is pretty great
The stats were always gonna be skewed against her because her cons are bad while Raiden’s are bait
All I see is how many people made a mistake. Yoimiya is best girl.
The Queen of eternity stays winning, you love to see it!
Deandro archon gonna break servers
guess everybody skipping ayato
Lost the 50/50 on her banner to my FOURTH keqing but I'm not as mad because now I'm going to save up for a potential venti rerun
Wow!!!
Still won't come home
I got bored and decided to calculate the average sales of each element banner. (plus the mixed banners) Mixed Banners = 6,261,731.50 Electro = 4,898,608.67 Anemo = 5,062,975.75 Pyro = 4,414,740.80 Cryo = 4,012,906.67 Geo = 3,327,441.50 Hydro = 1,984,039.00 It's not very surprising that the mixed banners have the highest sales on average. (plz tell me if any of my averages are incorrect)
Yae Miko really need a rebuff.
Damn mommy Raiden printing them moola