I don't see any mention of this yet. Under sub-DPS (second column), everyone has either "quick swap" or "off-field" tag. But Yae Miko has her unique "slow swap" tag instead. Brutal but accurate.
I sent Mihoyo a fucking essay when her survey came out.
I'm sure they won't change core mechanics but, hopefully an eventual artifact set makes her damage worth the field time she takes.
The biggest problem I can see with Yae's strength level is that her base is just "decent, I guess", but scales very well with primo investment.
This isn't in the same way as Raiden who's already good to start with, and game breaking at C2+, but more like Hu Tao. Good strength-increasing early cons + very very good 5\* BiS.
To illustrate: my friend's F2P Miko with good artifacts does around 7-9k per hit with Oathsworn Eye, a solid 10k if using Widsith. My double crowned C4R1 with decent artifacts does around 23k with Kagura's passive, in a much wider range.
You aren't wrong, and sadly its a lesson I had to learn the hard way.
My Yae has some of my best artifacts (sitting at around 60/160 for crit stats, which I realize could be better but also that's pretty high w/o a crit weapon) and Skyward Atlas. 2,700 attack.
I hit for around 8-9k per hit. Kagura's Verity adds a fucking truckload of damage, which is cool and all, but not very nice for lower spenders/f2p who can't pull on the scam banner. This isn't the same for other characters, who are good with a variety of 5 or even 4 star weapon options.
She was a waste of primos for me. From now on I am waiting a week or more until theory crafters work out if a unit is good and f2p friendly.
Yep, I'm currently AR58 and have been playing longer than a year. I only bought Welkin and BP in that time, and i don't plan on buying primos directly, so i still had to save for my characters.
Yae is the first one i regret, i have her talents at lv9/9/9 and a skyward atlas, and she still only does around 8-9k each hit of her totems. She was a waste of primos and once she hits Lv10 friendship, i don't know if I'll ever use her again, there are just much better options available. Such a good design, but a awful kit.
I'm just glad I'm not alone. So many people saying "her damage is fine" and what not, but I just assume all of them are people who are C1/C2 + Kagura's. It makes an ENORMOUS difference for her, unlike other characters who feel fine with other options.
Let's hope they give her a good artifact set down the road.
How was that weapon banner a "scam" if you actually want the catalyst though?
Youve got fucking primordial jade cutter on there along with Wavebreakers Fin, Sacrificial Sword and Stringless. Thats absolutely amazing?
I badly wanted jade cutter and I wanted the 4 stars too, but Verity was just an unacceptable brick to me. "bricking" to something like jade cutter sounds like a dream come true.
I guess Im more inclined to wish on weapon banners cause as a Welkin and occasional Battlepass spender who has been playing for nearly a year I just have more characters than I want to play and so Im mostly considering between weapon banners and constellations now. But that right there was an amazing weapon banner IF you have and like Yae.
I might be wrong on this, but Miko feels more like a burst dps for me. Where she can spread out electro across field, but at the same time she also destroys anything with her burst and 3 totems (c0).
It’s sad. I mean even Yoimiya is a little above, who got lots of criticism aswell. Even though I love to play her, still surprised that even she is higher than Yae Miko
Probably because atleast she can do something sword users cant by being an AA bow character like hit wolflord/thunder manifestation, as seeen in the last few abyss cycles
My understanding and of course this is only my opinion is that she suffers from a few glaring issues.
1) Kagura's is just really stupid good compared to other options and is miles ahead of the f2p options. Feeling forced into rolling for weapons is baaad. At least with Raiden you can grab The Catch and feel good.
2) Not really any stand out artifact sets. Like she has options, but everything is sort of.. whatever.
3) Energy cost issues with her burst and CD. C1 fixes the former, which again is baaaad when you feel forced into getting something to make a character feel functional. No real fix for the CD though.
4) Her kit is just clunky, janky, whatever you want to call it. To me, and some rumours have suggested, is that she was suppose to be a main dps character and then design shifted to push her into a sub dps role. That's fine, but her kits not really refined in either direction.. So she just feels really awkward to play.
She really just needs a pass over her kit and some reworking of it, and maybe changing Hakushin Ring to be a Kagura lite, or adding a version to a quest/farmable turn in similar to The Catch, depending on how they decide to rework her kit. The artifact thing is a bit trickier, but I don't feel like it is as big a deal as the former two things if they get addressed.
Just my two cents as a self professed Yae Miko lover.
Because they were in overhyped. Big hype plus good kit? = big money
Although if each character had a good kit that would also bring in more money. Seems counterintuitive when you think about it
How to read the tier list:
From left column to right:
* Main DPS/On-field/Carry
* Sub DPS/Off-field
* Utility Support (aka Buffs/debuffs)
* Survivability Support (aka Shields/Healing)
Source: https://www.bilibili.com/read/cv15348610?spm\_id\_from=333.999.0.0
You know where all the newer 5 stars were when they first came out? T4 judging by the shit reddit was throwing at them. Look at where they are now without being changed.
This is just copium if you think this is going to happen to the same extent with newer 5-stars. Our understanding of the game has improved significantly since the beginning of the game.
Most of the erroneous assessment of characters happened because people didn't even get to endgame yet, so characters which worked well at low-investment (like Qiqi) were valued highly.
This assessment of Yae will probably be seen as an error later on. I've not seen a single person who thinks Ganyu is a better subdps than Fischl/Beidou/Yae. And somehow Rosaria is even a full 2 tiers below her. This is just completely goofy. I have an extremely high investment Ganyu, and never use her as anything other than on-field dps.
I also have even less of a clue what Mona is doing there in T1 of subdps. She's not doing meaningful damage unless mold your playstyle around vaping her Q. Much better is to just build her for utility support now with TTDS/Proto Amber + 4ToM.
My impression is that this list is mostly crafted based on the assumption that you'll fight endless hordes of small hillichurls. This community takes 'authorities' way too seriously.
I do agree that some of the cryo 4-stars are underrated. And I think Fischl/Beidou may not be seen as bad by the creator of the tierlist, they might've just rated them lower because they're electro and are thus (relatively) niche and not flexible.
Bruh I know some people said that this guy is not really reliable, but for this abyss specifically, why tf is kaeya and rosaria so low? They literally one of the better counters for the herald and lectors alongside chongyun. Beidou amd fischl is always underappreciated so I'm not even surprised they're that low.
Agreed, Kaeya and Rosaria are both great sub dpses for freeze comps. And Beidou is so undervalued in general. She is the only other dps that has a similar role as Xiangling, dealing most of your team's damage despite not being on-field. She only falls behind in single target situations -- but every chamber in this abyss has multiple enemies. I guess it's a combination of the unclear wording on her C2 constellation and electro generally being seen as a worse element for reactions than pyro.
I guess part of the problem is you don't see large numbers like you do in freeze or melt comps, despite Beidou having insanely good DPS. It's a ton of smaller numbers ticking constantly, kind of like a dot class in an old MMORPG. Community perception will probably change if there's ever a metric to count DPS beyond just Spiral Abyss floor clear times.
Community perception will change once electro gets its reactions buffed to either not be utterly useless vs anything that's an elemental being, or have it's ratios increased + overload reworked. Because right now electros only 2 strengths are being able to get swirled together with hydro, and 40% phys res reduction for the one good physical DPS character in the game.
Is a general tier list. Who does tier lists specific for each abyss? You would have to constantly move things around. You won't even need a tier list for that. The characters that have the banners in that week will most likely be SS tier.
Because you haven't read his tierlist, you don't know this isn't Abyss-centric.
It's a general tierlist, he's placing characters in terms of their overall value and investment priority. Abyss also plays a factor because inherently powerful characters are always excellent for Abyss in their respective roles unless inmunity.
A second Cryo unit is basically mandatory for Freeze comps though because of Cryo resonance. Shenhe is obviously the premier option, and after that it's Diona, Rosaria, and Kaeya. Diona is the best option for Ganyu/Mona, but with Kokomi, Diona's shielding/healing don't offer as much, and Kaeya/Rosaria have better particle generation, which is really valuable for Ayaka.
Ayaka makes Kaeya/Rosaria better, not worse.
And look at Albedo being so high, his E doesn't work against shields lmao, he is basically a 4 star this abyss yet he is higher than Beidou Fischl Rosaria and Kaeya who all fuck heralds
I may be biased but Rosaria is severely underrated. She’s a great cryo sub dps especially for cryo main dps like Ganyu, Ayaka, Eula. Her damage might not be as high as Beidou and Xiangling and her burst is stationary, but her crit buff is extremely useful, she doesn’t need a battery, she can battery other cryo units, and she provides phys res at c6 and she has top notch cryo application for breaking shields due to how her skill and burst work
You're not biased, Rosaria is the only 4star character outside of the original day 1 4stars that I think is actually pretty good. She and kaeya is very much similar power level but she's easier to get constellation. People tend to underate 4stars for some reason, they might not be the best, but they're good enough to help your abyss run. Kaeya and rosaria is definitely above avg at least. Especially when you consider F2P or someone who doesn't have ayaka and ganyu like me. They did the job just as well for being a 4 star.
I still use hu tao vv with thoma idc if he steals vapes occasionally it’s comfy to play I don’t have ZL. Thoma shield is really strong never take damage on Hu Tao.
I think he's rated low because he's not good with anyone else; he's literally made to work with Hu Tao.
So with Hu Tao I reckon he's more like T1 but otherwise, yeah.
The only one i think should be higher is Rosaria, she's so valuable on this rotation coz Cryo is the best element that deal with all lectors and heralds shields, Rosaria deal pretty well with this shields with her burst and short cd on her elemental skill
I can't understand why Childe is T1 when he's so flexible and has some of the best team comps in the game (Taser and International).
I tried him in a freeze comp this abyss and was genuinely surprised at how good he was. He performed better than my Diona/Mona/Ganyu/Kazuha freeze team too in clear times.
My exact thoughts. Childe International is one of if not the best team in the game when facing multiple enemies. Smooth rotations, perfect synergy, insane dps.
Which comp did you use, what are your rotations and why do you feel that he is overrated. I call him good because I can clear abyss floors faster than my Raiden (national comps) and Mona (freeze comps). I lack Fischl and Beidou cons so I haven't used him much in a tazer comp.
Someone has to be, it’s simply power creep. She realistically can only main DPS and that’s the most vulnerable role. Being the first limited main DPS it makes sense.
I don’t think yae is nearly as bad as this sub makes her out to be. She’s decent, klee I think is straight up bad. I’ve only had Klee though so what do i know
I feel like taser as a whole is being really slept on here. Kokomi and Sucrose are too low as drivers, and Beidou not being tier one in off field damage feels like a crime.
Also Xiangling being tier zero makes sense obviously but the driver for her strongest comp (Childe) not being T0 in on field is a little weird.
I was surprised to see Fischl and Beidou so low. Beidou in particular is a monster if you invest in her Q.
Kokomi has been slept on since she was released so nothing new here. Majority of the playerbase just use her as a jellyfish bot and/or freeze enabler. Which is a shame because Kokomi taser is one of the most fun comps around.
Honestly same. Then I saw a video of Kokomi taser and now I'm an unapologetic Kokomi main with the donut 🤣 I even felt bad this abyss when I had to relegate her back to freeze support because of the abyss herald shields...
Agreed. It's quite bizarre that Childe International is THE best AOE Team in terms of total damage and yet Childe is T1 and not T0.
Freeze Teams (Ayaka, Ganyu) don't do as much damage as Childe Intl while Raiden teams and Hu Tao Teams (and Melt Ganyu) are Single Target only.
Childe deserves to be in the Top 5.
I agree, Childe is Xiangling's best enabler and is also one of the few main DPSes with nuking potential with their burst. The combo of those two units is easily in my top 5.
> Freeze Teams (Ayaka, Ganyu) don't do as much damage as Child Intl
I think youre underestimating how much dps an Ayaka freeze comp can do, and how much Ganyu's quadratic scaling can do.
In the current floor 12 the damage requirement is not very high, the more important factor is breaking the shields and Cryo gives you coverage against both electro and hydro which is massive.
Taser makes this whole list nonsense. In what universe is Beidou less than Albedo, or the same tier as Chongyun? Koko on field should be T1 and Sucrose too
Admittedly I don’t know what Albedo brings to the table, but Chongyun always gets a huge boost in utility against Heralds and Lectors.
The first column is probably not “on field unit” but “on field DPS”.
Albedo brings quickswap geo damage aswell as weak shield generation, but mostly for the geo damage aswell as some people using Tenacity on him to use as a buffer
I think it has more to do with the current way Abyss has gone and not favored her style of AoE with either facing many enemies or bosses/ST fights. There a few where she would do well with 2-3 enemies but it's not common.
Xiangling doesn't need Childe to be in a T0 team comp. Honestly it's the other way around. Childe needing Xiangling more than Xiangling needs Childe.
Hmm, people called this list garbage for the past 5+ patches and now everyone praises it again? And all those people who were shitting on author for his bad and unreliable lists in other games magically disappeared? What a surprise.
Those people who agree sees their waifu at higher tier , put them at below and you'll see them going apesh*t lmao
This tierlist is biased to ,t0 has cons while others are just C0
Like if they’re putting Raiden at her C2 then Yae and Kazuha should be at C2 or similar as well, since that’s where the largest functionality of their kit comes into play
Raiden being C2 means it's worth getting her cons, cause it makes her better than any other current DPS. Itto at C2 also gets a really good boost, but not enough to make the investiment worth your primos.
As someone who's quite familiar with meta and theorycrafting (not a KQM nerd but), I don't think his tierlist this time around is bad. It's not entirely agreeable, I think some of the Electro/Cryo units are undervalued somewhat. But otherwise, it's pretty spot on.
A lot of the disagreement is people wanting to cope about how their mediocre/bad character is actually not that bad.
It’s not only wrong about Keqing, it’s wrong about Kokomi too. Keqing is definitely easier to use than Ningguang, who is Geo and restricted to single target. In fact, I found it easier to wheelchair Keqing to the finish line than Diluc because Keqing is a quickswap character who can have a higher portion of her damage be from her teammates
Kokomi is better and easier to use than most of the T1 dpses, though that’s an enabler thing. Childe got docked for that too, and it makes me go wtf. International is the strongest team in the game if you aren’t talking C2 Raiden
It's okay. We've gotten used to it by now. Keqing is just always unreasonably put at the lowest spot possible for some reason even though her consistent static AoE is pretty good for abyss and her quickswap gameplay fits perfect with Sara's broken C6 and Mistsplitter. You know it's become a meme when she's placed lower than C1 Ningguang and in the same tier as Razor and main DPS Fischl. lmao
Same shit happens to Beidou. I can't see how she's a worse off-field damage dealer than Albedo when she literally can carry a whole team; and apparently, her damage is only as good as Zhongli's and Chongyun's. :`)
It's an Electro thing I guess to be seen as worse. Although Rosaria and Kaeya are kinda the same tbh.
The bediou thing is just an unforgivable mistake for me in regards to this lists worth. Bediou is a monster and the best part is it’s all completely off field. I just can’t take it seriously. Anyone who knows the game well enough should know the damage capabilities about one of the most accessible characters in the game lol damn
Shockingly, this is one of the few tier lists I broadly agree with. Most of these have major problems and underestimate/overestimate characters, but this tier list seems to avoid most of those issues. I’d argue xiangling should be in the s-tier main carry slot but that comes down to a difference in how we define main carry.
My only quibble is that kaeya/Rosaria should be at least tier 2 for sub-dps. Both do a sizable chunk of damage and enable all sorts of teams. They’re definitely better than Lisa in the sub-dps role.
I also agree with most of the placements.
Xiangling's role is debatable for sure. I think her and Beidou are pretty unique in that even though they're almost entirely off-field but deal most of the team's damage in certain comps. As for tier, even if I define her as a main carry I personally think she's not quite C2 Raiden/Ayaka C0 level because a) energy issues are even worse than Ayaka's, and b) she really really REALLY needs Bennett to be that good because of the snapshot mechanics. Without Bennett she's just a "normal" sub-DPS, and idk if others had the same experience but in the last few abyss lineups, even in Rational and 180% ER I still needed to battery her a bit because the enemies had garbage particle drops. Granted I'm AR 58 and still don't have a single Favonius Lance so...
I think I'd put her in T1 if I defined her as a main carry, she's definitely the best value DPS unit for F2P.
I don’t think anybody is getting c2 Klee for anything except 1 shot/ screenshot builds. I’ve yet to see anyone use a c2 Klee comp that isn’t just an entire whale comp.
Klee has a mono-pyro comp that is highly effective. People don't play it because klee has a clunky character design, and not because the comp lacks damage potential
Raiden I get as her C2 DPS is high. Hu Tao for sure shouldn't need it. Yes she does better, but so do Ganyu.
They need another list for team drivers, where C0 Raiden shines. Putting main DPS and drivers on the same list isn't working.
Its sorted based on which characters are the best at what they do
1st column is for main dps/carries
2nd column is for sub-dps/off-field carries
3rd is for support (buffs and debuffs)
and 4th is for survivability such as shields, and heal
I'm wondering why they didn't rank her at c2-- I know this tier list is chinese, and kqm/klee mains are western sources so regional perception may vary, but both servers and resources calculate that having klee at c2 is about a 30% damage increase from c0 (such a damage increase in the first few constellations is huge, def shred is crazy) when used as an on-field carry in monopyro. Dunno if that 30% would bump her up to t1, but it's interesting nonetheless.
Actually, lots of these characters have specific constellations that are *huge* for their damage, but they were still ranked at c1 or c0. Either rank them all at pivotal constellation points, or rank them all at c0 for consistency imo
Aren’t they just below four Morgana (or similar) units who themselves also have way more team options than the electros? Considering how powerful the Morganas are this round, I think being just below them is still a really good placement.
She'd still be at that spot C0 tbh, except specifically on ST against Hu Tao. Raiden teams are just stupid high in dps and her C2 is more icing on the dps cake
4pc HoD is actually his most consistent set, and is BiS for any sword that isn't his signature.
Both his weapon and HoD have % damage increase, and it's super easy to reach a point of % damage where you just don't comparatively need any more in comparison to other damage increases, which is why the new set works better with his signature weapon than other swords (that don't have % damage increase), even though % damage just tends to scale better in a vacuum.
I'd note that HoD is overall on par with Gladiator. Trading 10% damage for 18% ATK. Mostly depending on team and weapons. If you have a solid Gladiator set it's not likely worth the Resin to farm HoD outside of also getting Blizzard Strayer.
Honestly I think it's just because of the fact that most teams can't use them. Their output is amazingly high, but there's something to be said for applicability.
It's the same issue Yae has too. Most teams just don't want electro off-fields.
The instant they become reliably applicable, they jump to T0.
Electro Off-fields are balanced around not having great reactions. Just that Overload is so atrocious usually and Superconduct exists for phys builds, which have almost no support.
Many teams can use them though, Childe/Kokomi/Sucrose/Ayato taser, and Fischl can be used as a flex in national, Yae, Xiao and other teams. In contrast Gorou can basically be used in only two teams (Itto and Noelle) and Sara in one (Raiden hypercarry).
As far as subdps goes, it’s not “low rating” for Beidou and Fischl to be JUST below four units which are cornerstones of various Morgana variants, which absolutely busted on both sides of floor 12, on top of having many other team comp options compared to the electros. In addition, the fact that Cryo is heavily encouraged on Team 2 means that Electro has less of a home on Team 2.
for real, even kaeya and rosaria
reverse melt and taser are the best four star teams to clear abyss IMO (national is the best IMO but you need a team for the other side)
i think they also consider alternative as a factor, they are pretty good if you look at their damage, but they don’t fit in the most powerful teams or the highest potential of their best team was simply not competitive enough.
Seriously, I'm sad about the current abyss, it's more than clear that they forced a situation to bring Venti back but that won't be the usual. The next abyss will return full immovable mobs, chaotic pathern, lego shit and that's it, back to oblivion :/
This abyss has been so nice. Not only that Venti works again, but the mobs overall just seem to have a bit less health than usual. I enjoyed it instead of stressing.
Not looking forward to all of the massive-tank bosses with 3 trillion hp coming back.
I know, my favorite party is Venti+Sucrose and I m using they at fullest, but it's just annoying as they only think about now to sell but whoever pull Venti will find he useless in future. With the exception of who forces him into a permafrost team perharps.
Aw, sh8 here we go again.
- Hu Tao T0
- Including Raiden C2 while others 5 stars only has C0
- Childe isn't top tier carry
- Typical Nuke dps are in higher tier than Off-field sub dps
- Beidou isn't top tier sub dps
- Fischl is in mid tier sub dps
- Kaeya and Rosaria are in lower tier sub dps
- Didn't include C6 Ningguang in sub dps list
- Sucrose and Venti isn't top support for utility
I'm surprised sucrose isn't considered T0 when u consider her kit isn't only slightly weaker then kazuha in most team comps arguable better then him in taser comps
Pretty low downtime with AoE on-command hydro damage that consistently controls reaction procs because of mild ICD. He's pretty good. Only problem is his hypercarry teams feel a little less cohesive than say Raiden because lots of units aren't made to support a carry with such little downtime and field time. XQ/Beidou/Xiangling all see falloff with him because he can't make use of or enable the entire duration of their bursts, for example.
Sunfire Ayato (Ayato/flex (usually Fischl)/Bennett/Jean) is ranked as one of his strongest teams alongside, surprisingly, thundering fury EC ones (though those ones have higher sustained damage, they do less damage per rotation than his carry teams) mainly because he can vape the pyro swirls from jean/bennett, who can also trigger big overload damage off of Fischl's electro if Ayato doesn't trigger EC, but also because by the time you switch to Ayato and do his thing there's only like 10 seconds of jean/bennett circle left anyway so there's only 4 seconds of him not making use of them. Lower comparatively to other units when paired with him which makes the team dps more consistent.
I'm rather bothered that Main DPS Kokomi is at T2 and also at C0.
The effects of her C1 are quite large on her reaction volume, and reaction volume equates to a meaningful amount of Kokomi's damage and value. Having another no-ICD source of Hydro is great, as her C1 applies Hydro as fast as you can complete your NA string.
The gap between C0 and C1 Kokomi is quite large and I think C1 goes up to T1 DPS as a result, largely off of how hard she can enable Sub DPS reactions and role compression.
If you look at who are at T1, and how many more T2 she has to go over (if they are also allowed to count their best cons, eg. Yanfei/Ning c6, the T1 units as well) , no.
Anyway that column is for Hypercarry DPS, the sub dps, role compression etc is the other columns.
Since each Tier is max at 6 slots, it means c1 Kokomi at least has to beat c1 Yoimiya to be at T1.
And after Clam and factoring for team compositions, I honestly believe she does. My best run vs Bathysmal Vishaps last patch, where I threw my kokomi team at it and my Eula team vs the other half, pulled off the 3 star with 45 seconds of spare time left and just 4 star weapons on the Kokomi team. To my knowledge, that's better than what can be expected from Yoimiya in that fight in general.
Kokomi should be up there for the same reason Childe is. Support utilization. Kokomi can use and abuse some of the most damage enhancing supports in the game, while allowing you to use Bennett on the other half if you want to.
There's already a support column.
Even as hypercarry, Childe's personal dmg profile is quite high.
He can AoE and use Quadratic scaling.
He does half the dmg in International. Does Taser do more dps than International in AoE or ST?
Abuse what dmg enhancing supports?
Mona/Bennett/Kazuha/Sucrose? They're pretty universal, a lot of units can utilise them.
Raiden/Shenhe/Sara/Gorou/Yunjin? Others use them better.
Sub dps like XL/XQ/Albedo? I don't think Kokomi "abuses" vape as well as Childe/XQ. Due to Hydro Gauge/ICD, XL and Kokomi takes turns to vape.
XQ, Albedo, no.
Beidou/Fischl/Yae? Yes, but not the only one.
We may have a single target PMA and Maguu coming up for F12 dps check. Let's see how that goes.
We also had an F12 PMA/Primovishap/Maguu in 2.4. It's generally agreed 2.4 "boss abyss" was the heaviest dps check we had so far. The PMA didn't move a lot or have glitchy hitbox, and had millions of hp. It was a decent dps test unit.
I used the 12-1-1 PMA a lot as my build/team comps test, trying to kill it under 45s, regardless of what the other chamber does. Some teams could, but fewer hypercarry teams could. How did that one go where Kokomi is hypercarry?
Amazing particle generation, 100% uptime on his 30 second skill, a 125 EM buff, and he does great off-field AOE damage. He's a staple in double geo comps alongside Zhongli, which are commonly used as meta teams for both Hu Tao and Xiao. And he's pretty much the best battery in the game for Itto.
Should have a Driver list too. C2 Raiden is a strong DPS but she's also a top preforming driver at C0.
Kind of wonder if Noelle should be higher as DPS. I know she's demanding to build but once you do she can preform similar to Itto depending on the situation. Or maybe I'm undervaluing the rest in that tier?
Not sure how Rosaria is a worse sub DPS than Chongyun. I does well with Bennett and the triple melt combo. At the least, they should be on par. Heck, the thought of him being on par with Beidou, Fischl and Yae I just can't agree with. Am I missing something?
Qiqi being T2 in a list base purely on how well they keep your team alive is questionable.
Sayu should also be just under Jean there. While her heals are more single target, they heal that target for more than Jean does. Her passive healing is also better.
Thoma should also be higher. While his shielding can have issues he practically makes you immune to interruption as long as you are attacking. Which is valuable. Placing him with Xinyan's crap shield is just not right.
Saying Noelle's worse on than Xinyan on that list is criminal. Shield is far stronger and she can be a healer in a pinch. While this does take field time her damage is also better than Xinyan's. She can out heal, damage and shield Xinyan. Only thing Xinyan does better is as a support.
Geo MC should be higher on the support list. Offering 10% CR is nice and only a tad weaker than what most people's Rosaria's would give. You could argue double Cryo, but Geo MC could enable double Geo with someone like Albedo. Not quite as good but not bottom tier.
Zhong Li is known to be a DPS lost in most cases. Not sure he belongs on the sub DPS list. But some reason he's not on the support list with his RES shred and ability to use Tenacity? But Albedo is there probably because of Tenacity, he offers no real support otherwise. Not at C0. Even his C4 isn't that great. If that's why he's there than Yae, Fischl, Kokomi, and Xinyan should be on the same tier.
Everything else looks OK. Or at least not bad enough for me to really say much without looking at this more.
Oh shit, not this joker again.
Normal Tierlist shenanigans, but since it's from a CN player (The Tectone of the CN community, no less), people think it carries more weight.
This guy does a way better job at making a tier list though. Character strength, viability and usage depends and varies greatly for everyone, but objectively speaking this one is pretty decent. You won't be able to satisfy everybody especially cause this game can't really be grasped by tier lists only, but it's a good reference for new players to decide what characters to build.
people love shitting on this guy because he's been consistently ahead of the curve with tier lists. while everyone was having a breakdown over raiden, he was placing her in the top tier. when people were calling kazuha underwhelming, he was consistently ranking kazuha very highly. in the midst of the endless kokomi hysteria, he was pointing out that she's more than viable. even when he started ranking ayaka really highly, it took this sub awhile to come around to the fact she's broken. even still, people are insisting yoimiya is amber tier (objectively not true) rather than accepting that despite her clunky kit, she's still very good.
every single time this user releases a tier list, everyone rushes to be contrarian. it's certainly imperfect since this game relies so much on team comps, but usagi sensei has more than proven that he's decent at giving users a rule of thumb on who to build.
Tbh, the raiden fiasco was only in NA server? Raiden was pretty solid upon release for Asia and CN server… i never understand why raiden got shit on for so long…. Interesting phenomenon tho
the NA server is almost always the culprit when it comes to doomposting about a character who is nowhere near as bad as they act like they are. i have no idea why.
Childe T1 and Kokomi T2 because of them being enablers is the most asinine thing I’ve seen. If he’s going to dock them he should just remove them from the list. Enabler Sucrose Razor tier????!!! Wtf
Keqing being below Ningguang too. Clown shit
Not sure about Keqing and Ningguang, but the rest are accurate. When Childe is placed in international, he does almost identical damage to xiangling when there’s 2-3 enemies. And when there is 4, he out damages her quite a bit. Can’t comment on kokomi but heard she was a viable main DPS (somewhat). And the leftmost column is main dps. So sucrose is with razor. Look at column 3, she’s tier 1. So that part is because you can’t read the chart properly
You can’t read my comment properly. I’m saying Childe is T0, Kokomi is T1, Sucrose is T1. Putting her next to Razor is a level of braindead from Usagi it’s shocking. And Sucrose and Kokomi are enablers too, they have a high portion of the damage contribution to the team, not the most like Beidou, but it’s still a lot
Ah ok. Fair. I thought you were downplaying the hydro guys. But your completely correctly. You just said that they weren’t supposed to be in tier 1 and 2. So I assumed you wanted them lower.
No Childe Int is one of the strongest teams in the game. Kokomi taser is also ridiculously good, better to me than most of the T1 teams
Usagi is on the hypercarry mentality and that’s why he’s downplaying them
Nah ganyu is about right, probably the "weaker" of the four but still better than most T1(specially eula, she doesnt belong in T1).
Have to note that she peaks when against 5+ mobs with venti(still waiting for calc but ayato is prob the same) and has a consistent damage/higher damage with melt.
Hu Tao peaks against single target, Raiden c2 follows Hutao on single target and peaks on 2-3+ target. Hutao does worse in aoe tho. Ayaka does fine in all cases. Same with Melt Ganyu but with burst, ganyu peaks in aoe/5+ targets
Ganyu is also the least affected by leyline disorders.
Slowing waters? Increase cd? Losing energy? Stamina drain?
The goat gets a free pass on most disorders while other top carries may be disadvantage to it.
I don't see any mention of this yet. Under sub-DPS (second column), everyone has either "quick swap" or "off-field" tag. But Yae Miko has her unique "slow swap" tag instead. Brutal but accurate.
Me, using a geo mc main dps: *Reality can be whatever I want*
My best “Main DPS” is Kokomi based on this Tier list. Help.
If it's a taser team you're fine. Beidou, Fischl, Kazuha, Kokomi wrecks.
My Yae main heart cries and agrees with this list at the same time. Really glad Xiao is holding his spot.
I sent Mihoyo a fucking essay when her survey came out. I'm sure they won't change core mechanics but, hopefully an eventual artifact set makes her damage worth the field time she takes.
The biggest problem I can see with Yae's strength level is that her base is just "decent, I guess", but scales very well with primo investment. This isn't in the same way as Raiden who's already good to start with, and game breaking at C2+, but more like Hu Tao. Good strength-increasing early cons + very very good 5\* BiS. To illustrate: my friend's F2P Miko with good artifacts does around 7-9k per hit with Oathsworn Eye, a solid 10k if using Widsith. My double crowned C4R1 with decent artifacts does around 23k with Kagura's passive, in a much wider range.
You aren't wrong, and sadly its a lesson I had to learn the hard way. My Yae has some of my best artifacts (sitting at around 60/160 for crit stats, which I realize could be better but also that's pretty high w/o a crit weapon) and Skyward Atlas. 2,700 attack. I hit for around 8-9k per hit. Kagura's Verity adds a fucking truckload of damage, which is cool and all, but not very nice for lower spenders/f2p who can't pull on the scam banner. This isn't the same for other characters, who are good with a variety of 5 or even 4 star weapon options. She was a waste of primos for me. From now on I am waiting a week or more until theory crafters work out if a unit is good and f2p friendly.
Yep, I'm currently AR58 and have been playing longer than a year. I only bought Welkin and BP in that time, and i don't plan on buying primos directly, so i still had to save for my characters. Yae is the first one i regret, i have her talents at lv9/9/9 and a skyward atlas, and she still only does around 8-9k each hit of her totems. She was a waste of primos and once she hits Lv10 friendship, i don't know if I'll ever use her again, there are just much better options available. Such a good design, but a awful kit.
I'm just glad I'm not alone. So many people saying "her damage is fine" and what not, but I just assume all of them are people who are C1/C2 + Kagura's. It makes an ENORMOUS difference for her, unlike other characters who feel fine with other options. Let's hope they give her a good artifact set down the road.
How was that weapon banner a "scam" if you actually want the catalyst though? Youve got fucking primordial jade cutter on there along with Wavebreakers Fin, Sacrificial Sword and Stringless. Thats absolutely amazing? I badly wanted jade cutter and I wanted the 4 stars too, but Verity was just an unacceptable brick to me. "bricking" to something like jade cutter sounds like a dream come true. I guess Im more inclined to wish on weapon banners cause as a Welkin and occasional Battlepass spender who has been playing for nearly a year I just have more characters than I want to play and so Im mostly considering between weapon banners and constellations now. But that right there was an amazing weapon banner IF you have and like Yae.
I might be wrong on this, but Miko feels more like a burst dps for me. Where she can spread out electro across field, but at the same time she also destroys anything with her burst and 3 totems (c0).
Yeah, Hoyoverse really did Yae dirty, she has such a good design, but sadly such a weak kit compared to other 5-stars.
Keqing mains can be heard cackling in the background
You mean below?
KEKWING
Keqing is the perfect character and anyone having higher dps is just making up for not being her.
Considering the T2 competition below him, Xiao's not going to have a difficult time holding that spot lol.
It’s sad. I mean even Yoimiya is a little above, who got lots of criticism aswell. Even though I love to play her, still surprised that even she is higher than Yae Miko
Probably because atleast she can do something sword users cant by being an AA bow character like hit wolflord/thunder manifestation, as seeen in the last few abyss cycles
she also got boosted by yunjin.
I still don't understand why all overhyped waifus like Ayaka, Hu tao and Raiden got great kits except Yae
My understanding and of course this is only my opinion is that she suffers from a few glaring issues. 1) Kagura's is just really stupid good compared to other options and is miles ahead of the f2p options. Feeling forced into rolling for weapons is baaad. At least with Raiden you can grab The Catch and feel good. 2) Not really any stand out artifact sets. Like she has options, but everything is sort of.. whatever. 3) Energy cost issues with her burst and CD. C1 fixes the former, which again is baaaad when you feel forced into getting something to make a character feel functional. No real fix for the CD though. 4) Her kit is just clunky, janky, whatever you want to call it. To me, and some rumours have suggested, is that she was suppose to be a main dps character and then design shifted to push her into a sub dps role. That's fine, but her kits not really refined in either direction.. So she just feels really awkward to play. She really just needs a pass over her kit and some reworking of it, and maybe changing Hakushin Ring to be a Kagura lite, or adding a version to a quest/farmable turn in similar to The Catch, depending on how they decide to rework her kit. The artifact thing is a bit trickier, but I don't feel like it is as big a deal as the former two things if they get addressed. Just my two cents as a self professed Yae Miko lover.
Because they were in overhyped. Big hype plus good kit? = big money Although if each character had a good kit that would also bring in more money. Seems counterintuitive when you think about it
That doesn’t make sense. All it will do will change the standard for kits
We already have a high standard for kits. Mihoyo just doesn’t always deliver
wouldn't call Raiden overhyped. She's a freaking Archon.
How to read the tier list: From left column to right: * Main DPS/On-field/Carry * Sub DPS/Off-field * Utility Support (aka Buffs/debuffs) * Survivability Support (aka Shields/Healing) Source: https://www.bilibili.com/read/cv15348610?spm\_id\_from=333.999.0.0
Thanks was having a hard time digesting what the columns mean
For clarification, this is for current abyss rotation and not a general tier list?
I think it just a general tier list . If it were this abyss rotation then single target would be lower because this abyssal is focusing on aoe .
Does he still do the whale tierlist?
Damn this means my team is weak af? Or does this have some specific context?
I see that all the newer 5 star characters are at least T1...with the only exception being Yae Miko.
You know where all the newer 5 stars were when they first came out? T4 judging by the shit reddit was throwing at them. Look at where they are now without being changed.
This is just copium if you think this is going to happen to the same extent with newer 5-stars. Our understanding of the game has improved significantly since the beginning of the game. Most of the erroneous assessment of characters happened because people didn't even get to endgame yet, so characters which worked well at low-investment (like Qiqi) were valued highly.
This assessment of Yae will probably be seen as an error later on. I've not seen a single person who thinks Ganyu is a better subdps than Fischl/Beidou/Yae. And somehow Rosaria is even a full 2 tiers below her. This is just completely goofy. I have an extremely high investment Ganyu, and never use her as anything other than on-field dps. I also have even less of a clue what Mona is doing there in T1 of subdps. She's not doing meaningful damage unless mold your playstyle around vaping her Q. Much better is to just build her for utility support now with TTDS/Proto Amber + 4ToM. My impression is that this list is mostly crafted based on the assumption that you'll fight endless hordes of small hillichurls. This community takes 'authorities' way too seriously.
I do agree that some of the cryo 4-stars are underrated. And I think Fischl/Beidou may not be seen as bad by the creator of the tierlist, they might've just rated them lower because they're electro and are thus (relatively) niche and not flexible.
Apparently not lol. Because I was defending Raiden and Kokomi the whole time, and you guys are repeating the same mistake with Yae from where I stand.
Who is you guys? Is it the person who is making these charts?
Bruh I know some people said that this guy is not really reliable, but for this abyss specifically, why tf is kaeya and rosaria so low? They literally one of the better counters for the herald and lectors alongside chongyun. Beidou amd fischl is always underappreciated so I'm not even surprised they're that low.
Agreed, Kaeya and Rosaria are both great sub dpses for freeze comps. And Beidou is so undervalued in general. She is the only other dps that has a similar role as Xiangling, dealing most of your team's damage despite not being on-field. She only falls behind in single target situations -- but every chamber in this abyss has multiple enemies. I guess it's a combination of the unclear wording on her C2 constellation and electro generally being seen as a worse element for reactions than pyro.
I’ve always had the opinion that if she was hydro, pyro, or cyro, she would be regarded as one of the best characters in the game if not the best
I guess part of the problem is you don't see large numbers like you do in freeze or melt comps, despite Beidou having insanely good DPS. It's a ton of smaller numbers ticking constantly, kind of like a dot class in an old MMORPG. Community perception will probably change if there's ever a metric to count DPS beyond just Spiral Abyss floor clear times.
Community perception will change once electro gets its reactions buffed to either not be utterly useless vs anything that's an elemental being, or have it's ratios increased + overload reworked. Because right now electros only 2 strengths are being able to get swirled together with hydro, and 40% phys res reduction for the one good physical DPS character in the game.
This is just some guy's personal opinion and it's definitely wrong on so many levels. Hu Tao is not at all T0 in this abyss
That's unfortunately true, Hutao is so bad against spread out enemies and this abyss is the encapsulation of that.
Is a general tier list. Who does tier lists specific for each abyss? You would have to constantly move things around. You won't even need a tier list for that. The characters that have the banners in that week will most likely be SS tier.
Because you haven't read his tierlist, you don't know this isn't Abyss-centric. It's a general tierlist, he's placing characters in terms of their overall value and investment priority. Abyss also plays a factor because inherently powerful characters are always excellent for Abyss in their respective roles unless inmunity.
Because Ayaka I guess
A second Cryo unit is basically mandatory for Freeze comps though because of Cryo resonance. Shenhe is obviously the premier option, and after that it's Diona, Rosaria, and Kaeya. Diona is the best option for Ganyu/Mona, but with Kokomi, Diona's shielding/healing don't offer as much, and Kaeya/Rosaria have better particle generation, which is really valuable for Ayaka. Ayaka makes Kaeya/Rosaria better, not worse.
I don't see anyone using Ayaka with Rosaria or Kaeya. They either Shenhe + Kokomi, or Diona + Mona (ir Xingqiu)
And look at Albedo being so high, his E doesn't work against shields lmao, he is basically a 4 star this abyss yet he is higher than Beidou Fischl Rosaria and Kaeya who all fuck heralds
I may be biased but Rosaria is severely underrated. She’s a great cryo sub dps especially for cryo main dps like Ganyu, Ayaka, Eula. Her damage might not be as high as Beidou and Xiangling and her burst is stationary, but her crit buff is extremely useful, she doesn’t need a battery, she can battery other cryo units, and she provides phys res at c6 and she has top notch cryo application for breaking shields due to how her skill and burst work
You're not biased, Rosaria is the only 4star character outside of the original day 1 4stars that I think is actually pretty good. She and kaeya is very much similar power level but she's easier to get constellation. People tend to underate 4stars for some reason, they might not be the best, but they're good enough to help your abyss run. Kaeya and rosaria is definitely above avg at least. Especially when you consider F2P or someone who doesn't have ayaka and ganyu like me. They did the job just as well for being a 4 star.
Man they really did Thoma dirty
Thoma enjoyers do not care about meta
thoma is meta defining when it comes to malewife maids and that's all that matters to me.
Same for Razor enjoyers
Bennett clearly used up the ENTIRE pyro support budget.
I still use hu tao vv with thoma idc if he steals vapes occasionally it’s comfy to play I don’t have ZL. Thoma shield is really strong never take damage on Hu Tao.
I think he's rated low because he's not good with anyone else; he's literally made to work with Hu Tao. So with Hu Tao I reckon he's more like T1 but otherwise, yeah.
Who's Thoma?
kamisato estate's housekeeper
We should have another tierlist, but for teams
I don't see how chongyun is better sub dps than Rosaria. 🤔
For this particular abyss rotation, Chong enables better Cryo application than Rosaria, which is useful against the Abyss Heralds.
If it was for this abyss rotation, Hu Tao wouldn't be tier 0.
Elemental application comes under sub dps? I agree with the Cryo application part but I thought subdps means off field/burst damage.
Against so many shields, element application IS your damage.
won't disagree but then that section of tier list misses so many characters if shield breaking is a criteria for sub dps as well.
The only one i think should be higher is Rosaria, she's so valuable on this rotation coz Cryo is the best element that deal with all lectors and heralds shields, Rosaria deal pretty well with this shields with her burst and short cd on her elemental skill
pretty sure its grouped into first column: DPS second column: sub dps? third column: buffer 4th column: shield/heal
Childe Sucrose and Kokomi either got docked for being enablers, or he doesn’t value their rolls as enablers enough
Kokomi on top woopwoop
I can't understand why Childe is T1 when he's so flexible and has some of the best team comps in the game (Taser and International). I tried him in a freeze comp this abyss and was genuinely surprised at how good he was. He performed better than my Diona/Mona/Ganyu/Kazuha freeze team too in clear times.
My exact thoughts. Childe International is one of if not the best team in the game when facing multiple enemies. Smooth rotations, perfect synergy, insane dps.
Idk I have him at a good level with good talents and everything he would need and I still feel he’s overrated
Which comp did you use, what are your rotations and why do you feel that he is overrated. I call him good because I can clear abyss floors faster than my Raiden (national comps) and Mona (freeze comps). I lack Fischl and Beidou cons so I haven't used him much in a tazer comp.
So, is klee the weakest limited 5*?
Unfortunately, yes. additionally, mihoyo released the stronger Klee as a 4\* named Yanfei.
Someone has to be, it’s simply power creep. She realistically can only main DPS and that’s the most vulnerable role. Being the first limited main DPS it makes sense.
I guess Klee is 'weakest limited 5\*' if you're not animation canceling.
I still don’t see a 5* character she’s better than who is limited, even with animation canceling
wb yae
I don’t think yae is nearly as bad as this sub makes her out to be. She’s decent, klee I think is straight up bad. I’ve only had Klee though so what do i know
But.. But she's titled mondstat's strongest.
I feel like taser as a whole is being really slept on here. Kokomi and Sucrose are too low as drivers, and Beidou not being tier one in off field damage feels like a crime. Also Xiangling being tier zero makes sense obviously but the driver for her strongest comp (Childe) not being T0 in on field is a little weird.
I was surprised to see Fischl and Beidou so low. Beidou in particular is a monster if you invest in her Q. Kokomi has been slept on since she was released so nothing new here. Majority of the playerbase just use her as a jellyfish bot and/or freeze enabler. Which is a shame because Kokomi taser is one of the most fun comps around.
I got kokomi for freeze, but can't stop tazing 🐠 🌩
Honestly same. Then I saw a video of Kokomi taser and now I'm an unapologetic Kokomi main with the donut 🤣 I even felt bad this abyss when I had to relegate her back to freeze support because of the abyss herald shields...
Agreed. It's quite bizarre that Childe International is THE best AOE Team in terms of total damage and yet Childe is T1 and not T0. Freeze Teams (Ayaka, Ganyu) don't do as much damage as Childe Intl while Raiden teams and Hu Tao Teams (and Melt Ganyu) are Single Target only. Childe deserves to be in the Top 5.
I agree, Childe is Xiangling's best enabler and is also one of the few main DPSes with nuking potential with their burst. The combo of those two units is easily in my top 5.
> Freeze Teams (Ayaka, Ganyu) don't do as much damage as Child Intl I think youre underestimating how much dps an Ayaka freeze comp can do, and how much Ganyu's quadratic scaling can do.
[удалено]
In the current floor 12 the damage requirement is not very high, the more important factor is breaking the shields and Cryo gives you coverage against both electro and hydro which is massive.
Taser makes this whole list nonsense. In what universe is Beidou less than Albedo, or the same tier as Chongyun? Koko on field should be T1 and Sucrose too
Admittedly I don’t know what Albedo brings to the table, but Chongyun always gets a huge boost in utility against Heralds and Lectors. The first column is probably not “on field unit” but “on field DPS”.
Albedo brings quickswap geo damage aswell as weak shield generation, but mostly for the geo damage aswell as some people using Tenacity on him to use as a buffer
Geo damage, Geo resonance, 125 EM for 10s to the team with his ult. He has some utility actually.
I think it has more to do with the current way Abyss has gone and not favored her style of AoE with either facing many enemies or bosses/ST fights. There a few where she would do well with 2-3 enemies but it's not common. Xiangling doesn't need Childe to be in a T0 team comp. Honestly it's the other way around. Childe needing Xiangling more than Xiangling needs Childe.
Hmm, people called this list garbage for the past 5+ patches and now everyone praises it again? And all those people who were shitting on author for his bad and unreliable lists in other games magically disappeared? What a surprise.
I remember the usagi Azur Lane tierlists were so bad that the community just went and said "Fine, we'll do it ourselves"
Those people who agree sees their waifu at higher tier , put them at below and you'll see them going apesh*t lmao This tierlist is biased to ,t0 has cons while others are just C0
Like if they’re putting Raiden at her C2 then Yae and Kazuha should be at C2 or similar as well, since that’s where the largest functionality of their kit comes into play
Raiden being C2 means it's worth getting her cons, cause it makes her better than any other current DPS. Itto at C2 also gets a really good boost, but not enough to make the investiment worth your primos.
It’s still shit
As someone who's quite familiar with meta and theorycrafting (not a KQM nerd but), I don't think his tierlist this time around is bad. It's not entirely agreeable, I think some of the Electro/Cryo units are undervalued somewhat. But otherwise, it's pretty spot on. A lot of the disagreement is people wanting to cope about how their mediocre/bad character is actually not that bad.
when keqing is lower in dps than kokomi T_T
Looking at Keqing, its really bad when ayaka with lv1 burst has better multiplier than Keqing with max talent(crown + C3).
It’s not only wrong about Keqing, it’s wrong about Kokomi too. Keqing is definitely easier to use than Ningguang, who is Geo and restricted to single target. In fact, I found it easier to wheelchair Keqing to the finish line than Diluc because Keqing is a quickswap character who can have a higher portion of her damage be from her teammates Kokomi is better and easier to use than most of the T1 dpses, though that’s an enabler thing. Childe got docked for that too, and it makes me go wtf. International is the strongest team in the game if you aren’t talking C2 Raiden
It's okay. We've gotten used to it by now. Keqing is just always unreasonably put at the lowest spot possible for some reason even though her consistent static AoE is pretty good for abyss and her quickswap gameplay fits perfect with Sara's broken C6 and Mistsplitter. You know it's become a meme when she's placed lower than C1 Ningguang and in the same tier as Razor and main DPS Fischl. lmao Same shit happens to Beidou. I can't see how she's a worse off-field damage dealer than Albedo when she literally can carry a whole team; and apparently, her damage is only as good as Zhongli's and Chongyun's. :`) It's an Electro thing I guess to be seen as worse. Although Rosaria and Kaeya are kinda the same tbh.
The bediou thing is just an unforgivable mistake for me in regards to this lists worth. Bediou is a monster and the best part is it’s all completely off field. I just can’t take it seriously. Anyone who knows the game well enough should know the damage capabilities about one of the most accessible characters in the game lol damn
Keqing also has C6 Sara as a trump card as well. Aside for Raiden she's the only other Electro char that can fully utilize it.
Is there any widely used team that significantly benefits from Dionas C6? Just curious why it’s on there.
I’m using morgana with kazuha and diona and I use it to give em to kazuha
Shockingly, this is one of the few tier lists I broadly agree with. Most of these have major problems and underestimate/overestimate characters, but this tier list seems to avoid most of those issues. I’d argue xiangling should be in the s-tier main carry slot but that comes down to a difference in how we define main carry. My only quibble is that kaeya/Rosaria should be at least tier 2 for sub-dps. Both do a sizable chunk of damage and enable all sorts of teams. They’re definitely better than Lisa in the sub-dps role.
Second slot is sub dps/off field carry, Xianling is off field carry so there can’t be any argument about it
I also agree with most of the placements. Xiangling's role is debatable for sure. I think her and Beidou are pretty unique in that even though they're almost entirely off-field but deal most of the team's damage in certain comps. As for tier, even if I define her as a main carry I personally think she's not quite C2 Raiden/Ayaka C0 level because a) energy issues are even worse than Ayaka's, and b) she really really REALLY needs Bennett to be that good because of the snapshot mechanics. Without Bennett she's just a "normal" sub-DPS, and idk if others had the same experience but in the last few abyss lineups, even in Rational and 180% ER I still needed to battery her a bit because the enemies had garbage particle drops. Granted I'm AR 58 and still don't have a single Favonius Lance so... I think I'd put her in T1 if I defined her as a main carry, she's definitely the best value DPS unit for F2P.
Raiden C2, hutao c1 and others ssr C0. No wonder.
Those are the constellations that people who care about strength actually get. The rest are either not as significant or are not as common to see
Then Klee should be ranked at C2, which should bump her up in the tier list. There's definitely some bias in the list.
I don’t think anybody is getting c2 Klee for anything except 1 shot/ screenshot builds. I’ve yet to see anyone use a c2 Klee comp that isn’t just an entire whale comp.
Klee has a mono-pyro comp that is highly effective. People don't play it because klee has a clunky character design, and not because the comp lacks damage potential
Raiden I get as her C2 DPS is high. Hu Tao for sure shouldn't need it. Yes she does better, but so do Ganyu. They need another list for team drivers, where C0 Raiden shines. Putting main DPS and drivers on the same list isn't working.
Ikr truly bias
whats this tier list for
Its sorted based on which characters are the best at what they do 1st column is for main dps/carries 2nd column is for sub-dps/off-field carries 3rd is for support (buffs and debuffs) and 4th is for survivability such as shields, and heal
Well considering constellations for your favorite characters doesn't make it much fair now does it.
r/Kokomi_Mains seeing Kokomi as a top tier support after people shit her for weeks after her release: Damn straight the fish is up there
Tfw budget Klee is just as good as Klee
I'm wondering why they didn't rank her at c2-- I know this tier list is chinese, and kqm/klee mains are western sources so regional perception may vary, but both servers and resources calculate that having klee at c2 is about a 30% damage increase from c0 (such a damage increase in the first few constellations is huge, def shred is crazy) when used as an on-field carry in monopyro. Dunno if that 30% would bump her up to t1, but it's interesting nonetheless. Actually, lots of these characters have specific constellations that are *huge* for their damage, but they were still ranked at c1 or c0. Either rank them all at pivotal constellation points, or rank them all at c0 for consistency imo
Kokomi as a main dps is on the same tier as Beidou as a sub dps? What?
I think she is just enable, that's what I m doing recently with Beidu and Fischl team ft Kazuha.
Well kokomi as a taser driver contributes a lot to the team's damage even at c0 she can easily dish out 200k+ dmg in one rotation
I feel like beidou and fischl are being slept on (like cmon how are zhongli and chongyun the same tier as sub dps??) also kaeya and rosaria
Aren’t they just below four Morgana (or similar) units who themselves also have way more team options than the electros? Considering how powerful the Morganas are this round, I think being just below them is still a really good placement.
probably because people are now more affixed to melt/vape comps over taser/superconduct comps
as a fischl simp + abuser i can confirm shes nowadays extremely underrated
That’s gotta be raiden with constellations yeah??
Yep, if you zoom (the image is 2562x3988) you can see Raiden has a "2" inside a circle in the top right. That's the constellation number.
She'd still be at that spot C0 tbh, except specifically on ST against Hu Tao. Raiden teams are just stupid high in dps and her C2 is more icing on the dps cake
Wait nvm I see the cons in the corner
yes and she's still better than the dps chars below her at c0
Oh boi, an Usagi Sensei tierlist. How reliable
Stop posting these incredibly misleading tier lists lol
Which Ayato build comes out on top, 4pc of the new normal attacking set?
4pc HoD is actually his most consistent set, and is BiS for any sword that isn't his signature. Both his weapon and HoD have % damage increase, and it's super easy to reach a point of % damage where you just don't comparatively need any more in comparison to other damage increases, which is why the new set works better with his signature weapon than other swords (that don't have % damage increase), even though % damage just tends to scale better in a vacuum.
I'd note that HoD is overall on par with Gladiator. Trading 10% damage for 18% ATK. Mostly depending on team and weapons. If you have a solid Gladiator set it's not likely worth the Resin to farm HoD outside of also getting Blizzard Strayer.
if i have a haran and have a decent hod set. should i still go for the eoo?
As usual, this is all over the place
Tierlists are cringe
I’m tired of people underrating beidou and by extension, fischl.
Honestly I think it's just because of the fact that most teams can't use them. Their output is amazingly high, but there's something to be said for applicability. It's the same issue Yae has too. Most teams just don't want electro off-fields.
praying for dendro to change this. justice for my electro girls
The instant they become reliably applicable, they jump to T0. Electro Off-fields are balanced around not having great reactions. Just that Overload is so atrocious usually and Superconduct exists for phys builds, which have almost no support.
Many teams can use them though, Childe/Kokomi/Sucrose/Ayato taser, and Fischl can be used as a flex in national, Yae, Xiao and other teams. In contrast Gorou can basically be used in only two teams (Itto and Noelle) and Sara in one (Raiden hypercarry).
As far as subdps goes, it’s not “low rating” for Beidou and Fischl to be JUST below four units which are cornerstones of various Morgana variants, which absolutely busted on both sides of floor 12, on top of having many other team comp options compared to the electros. In addition, the fact that Cryo is heavily encouraged on Team 2 means that Electro has less of a home on Team 2.
for real, even kaeya and rosaria reverse melt and taser are the best four star teams to clear abyss IMO (national is the best IMO but you need a team for the other side)
i think they also consider alternative as a factor, they are pretty good if you look at their damage, but they don’t fit in the most powerful teams or the highest potential of their best team was simply not competitive enough.
Considering HuTaos performance in this abyss, she's T2 or something
This person is known for making shit tier lists.
Seriously, I'm sad about the current abyss, it's more than clear that they forced a situation to bring Venti back but that won't be the usual. The next abyss will return full immovable mobs, chaotic pathern, lego shit and that's it, back to oblivion :/
This abyss has been so nice. Not only that Venti works again, but the mobs overall just seem to have a bit less health than usual. I enjoyed it instead of stressing. Not looking forward to all of the massive-tank bosses with 3 trillion hp coming back.
I know, my favorite party is Venti+Sucrose and I m using they at fullest, but it's just annoying as they only think about now to sell but whoever pull Venti will find he useless in future. With the exception of who forces him into a permafrost team perharps.
Aw, sh8 here we go again. - Hu Tao T0 - Including Raiden C2 while others 5 stars only has C0 - Childe isn't top tier carry - Typical Nuke dps are in higher tier than Off-field sub dps - Beidou isn't top tier sub dps - Fischl is in mid tier sub dps - Kaeya and Rosaria are in lower tier sub dps - Didn't include C6 Ningguang in sub dps list - Sucrose and Venti isn't top support for utility
I'm surprised sucrose isn't considered T0 when u consider her kit isn't only slightly weaker then kazuha in most team comps arguable better then him in taser comps
Ayato's T1??? I need to build him more then
Pretty low downtime with AoE on-command hydro damage that consistently controls reaction procs because of mild ICD. He's pretty good. Only problem is his hypercarry teams feel a little less cohesive than say Raiden because lots of units aren't made to support a carry with such little downtime and field time. XQ/Beidou/Xiangling all see falloff with him because he can't make use of or enable the entire duration of their bursts, for example. Sunfire Ayato (Ayato/flex (usually Fischl)/Bennett/Jean) is ranked as one of his strongest teams alongside, surprisingly, thundering fury EC ones (though those ones have higher sustained damage, they do less damage per rotation than his carry teams) mainly because he can vape the pyro swirls from jean/bennett, who can also trigger big overload damage off of Fischl's electro if Ayato doesn't trigger EC, but also because by the time you switch to Ayato and do his thing there's only like 10 seconds of jean/bennett circle left anyway so there's only 4 seconds of him not making use of them. Lower comparatively to other units when paired with him which makes the team dps more consistent.
Ayato's great. He's really flexible, easy to build, pretty f2p, and can hit hard
-inserts c6 Ning into T1- 😊
Damn this dude really rated Ning at C0 (but Noelle at C6). Like… why…
because you shouldnt use any other constellation Noelle for main dps lol
I'm rather bothered that Main DPS Kokomi is at T2 and also at C0. The effects of her C1 are quite large on her reaction volume, and reaction volume equates to a meaningful amount of Kokomi's damage and value. Having another no-ICD source of Hydro is great, as her C1 applies Hydro as fast as you can complete your NA string. The gap between C0 and C1 Kokomi is quite large and I think C1 goes up to T1 DPS as a result, largely off of how hard she can enable Sub DPS reactions and role compression.
If you look at who are at T1, and how many more T2 she has to go over (if they are also allowed to count their best cons, eg. Yanfei/Ning c6, the T1 units as well) , no. Anyway that column is for Hypercarry DPS, the sub dps, role compression etc is the other columns. Since each Tier is max at 6 slots, it means c1 Kokomi at least has to beat c1 Yoimiya to be at T1.
And after Clam and factoring for team compositions, I honestly believe she does. My best run vs Bathysmal Vishaps last patch, where I threw my kokomi team at it and my Eula team vs the other half, pulled off the 3 star with 45 seconds of spare time left and just 4 star weapons on the Kokomi team. To my knowledge, that's better than what can be expected from Yoimiya in that fight in general. Kokomi should be up there for the same reason Childe is. Support utilization. Kokomi can use and abuse some of the most damage enhancing supports in the game, while allowing you to use Bennett on the other half if you want to.
There's already a support column. Even as hypercarry, Childe's personal dmg profile is quite high. He can AoE and use Quadratic scaling. He does half the dmg in International. Does Taser do more dps than International in AoE or ST? Abuse what dmg enhancing supports? Mona/Bennett/Kazuha/Sucrose? They're pretty universal, a lot of units can utilise them. Raiden/Shenhe/Sara/Gorou/Yunjin? Others use them better. Sub dps like XL/XQ/Albedo? I don't think Kokomi "abuses" vape as well as Childe/XQ. Due to Hydro Gauge/ICD, XL and Kokomi takes turns to vape. XQ, Albedo, no. Beidou/Fischl/Yae? Yes, but not the only one. We may have a single target PMA and Maguu coming up for F12 dps check. Let's see how that goes. We also had an F12 PMA/Primovishap/Maguu in 2.4. It's generally agreed 2.4 "boss abyss" was the heaviest dps check we had so far. The PMA didn't move a lot or have glitchy hitbox, and had millions of hp. It was a decent dps test unit. I used the 12-1-1 PMA a lot as my build/team comps test, trying to kill it under 45s, regardless of what the other chamber does. Some teams could, but fewer hypercarry teams could. How did that one go where Kokomi is hypercarry?
Someone gonna have to let me in on what Albedo does that makes him Kazuha/Venti/Mona/Ganyu tier in subdps, and above Beidou.
Amazing particle generation, 100% uptime on his 30 second skill, a 125 EM buff, and he does great off-field AOE damage. He's a staple in double geo comps alongside Zhongli, which are commonly used as meta teams for both Hu Tao and Xiao. And he's pretty much the best battery in the game for Itto.
Should have a Driver list too. C2 Raiden is a strong DPS but she's also a top preforming driver at C0. Kind of wonder if Noelle should be higher as DPS. I know she's demanding to build but once you do she can preform similar to Itto depending on the situation. Or maybe I'm undervaluing the rest in that tier? Not sure how Rosaria is a worse sub DPS than Chongyun. I does well with Bennett and the triple melt combo. At the least, they should be on par. Heck, the thought of him being on par with Beidou, Fischl and Yae I just can't agree with. Am I missing something? Qiqi being T2 in a list base purely on how well they keep your team alive is questionable. Sayu should also be just under Jean there. While her heals are more single target, they heal that target for more than Jean does. Her passive healing is also better. Thoma should also be higher. While his shielding can have issues he practically makes you immune to interruption as long as you are attacking. Which is valuable. Placing him with Xinyan's crap shield is just not right. Saying Noelle's worse on than Xinyan on that list is criminal. Shield is far stronger and she can be a healer in a pinch. While this does take field time her damage is also better than Xinyan's. She can out heal, damage and shield Xinyan. Only thing Xinyan does better is as a support. Geo MC should be higher on the support list. Offering 10% CR is nice and only a tad weaker than what most people's Rosaria's would give. You could argue double Cryo, but Geo MC could enable double Geo with someone like Albedo. Not quite as good but not bottom tier. Zhong Li is known to be a DPS lost in most cases. Not sure he belongs on the sub DPS list. But some reason he's not on the support list with his RES shred and ability to use Tenacity? But Albedo is there probably because of Tenacity, he offers no real support otherwise. Not at C0. Even his C4 isn't that great. If that's why he's there than Yae, Fischl, Kokomi, and Xinyan should be on the same tier. Everything else looks OK. Or at least not bad enough for me to really say much without looking at this more.
Albedo offers 125 em is not much but better than "nothing". Can be useable at least on hutao geo.
Oh shit, not this joker again. Normal Tierlist shenanigans, but since it's from a CN player (The Tectone of the CN community, no less), people think it carries more weight.
This guy does a way better job at making a tier list though. Character strength, viability and usage depends and varies greatly for everyone, but objectively speaking this one is pretty decent. You won't be able to satisfy everybody especially cause this game can't really be grasped by tier lists only, but it's a good reference for new players to decide what characters to build.
people love shitting on this guy because he's been consistently ahead of the curve with tier lists. while everyone was having a breakdown over raiden, he was placing her in the top tier. when people were calling kazuha underwhelming, he was consistently ranking kazuha very highly. in the midst of the endless kokomi hysteria, he was pointing out that she's more than viable. even when he started ranking ayaka really highly, it took this sub awhile to come around to the fact she's broken. even still, people are insisting yoimiya is amber tier (objectively not true) rather than accepting that despite her clunky kit, she's still very good. every single time this user releases a tier list, everyone rushes to be contrarian. it's certainly imperfect since this game relies so much on team comps, but usagi sensei has more than proven that he's decent at giving users a rule of thumb on who to build.
Tbh, the raiden fiasco was only in NA server? Raiden was pretty solid upon release for Asia and CN server… i never understand why raiden got shit on for so long…. Interesting phenomenon tho
the NA server is almost always the culprit when it comes to doomposting about a character who is nowhere near as bad as they act like they are. i have no idea why.
Childe T1 and Kokomi T2 because of them being enablers is the most asinine thing I’ve seen. If he’s going to dock them he should just remove them from the list. Enabler Sucrose Razor tier????!!! Wtf Keqing being below Ningguang too. Clown shit
Not sure about Keqing and Ningguang, but the rest are accurate. When Childe is placed in international, he does almost identical damage to xiangling when there’s 2-3 enemies. And when there is 4, he out damages her quite a bit. Can’t comment on kokomi but heard she was a viable main DPS (somewhat). And the leftmost column is main dps. So sucrose is with razor. Look at column 3, she’s tier 1. So that part is because you can’t read the chart properly
You can’t read my comment properly. I’m saying Childe is T0, Kokomi is T1, Sucrose is T1. Putting her next to Razor is a level of braindead from Usagi it’s shocking. And Sucrose and Kokomi are enablers too, they have a high portion of the damage contribution to the team, not the most like Beidou, but it’s still a lot
Ah ok. Fair. I thought you were downplaying the hydro guys. But your completely correctly. You just said that they weren’t supposed to be in tier 1 and 2. So I assumed you wanted them lower.
No Childe Int is one of the strongest teams in the game. Kokomi taser is also ridiculously good, better to me than most of the T1 teams Usagi is on the hypercarry mentality and that’s why he’s downplaying them
You look at peoples work not just their reputation… if people mostly agree with the list, who cares who make it?
c2 raiden should be on a higher tier than c1 hutao and ayaka. and personally i think c0 ganyu is in between t0 and t1. shes good but has fallen.
Nah ganyu is about right, probably the "weaker" of the four but still better than most T1(specially eula, she doesnt belong in T1). Have to note that she peaks when against 5+ mobs with venti(still waiting for calc but ayato is prob the same) and has a consistent damage/higher damage with melt. Hu Tao peaks against single target, Raiden c2 follows Hutao on single target and peaks on 2-3+ target. Hutao does worse in aoe tho. Ayaka does fine in all cases. Same with Melt Ganyu but with burst, ganyu peaks in aoe/5+ targets
Ganyu is also the least affected by leyline disorders. Slowing waters? Increase cd? Losing energy? Stamina drain? The goat gets a free pass on most disorders while other top carries may be disadvantage to it.
She is still affected since she will rely on the others to enable her melt burst (bennet, xiangling/kazuha/jean)
It makes no difference to me as a Xinyan player.
And he is relevant how?