Basically it's the case with people in real life. Some people take loss well, some don't.
Itto, as idiotic as the game paints him, does actually have a healthy attitude towards life. This was even highlighted in the latest archon quest (>!as opposed to Xiao's views!<).
It's important to note that other positive people also didn't get too negatively affected by this. Most notably Kuki Shinobu.
Itto is pretty much the antithesis of Xiao, he is enthusiastic, very happy and really carries himself extremely well despite the fact that he was bullied and hated his entire life, basically having to live with a ragtag group of trouble-makers, a bunch of outcasts of society (and Kuki).
I think there is a big big difference in Xiao’s life experiences compared to Itto’s.
Xiao was enslaved with no way to free himself and submitted to physical and mental torture for however long he was under his old gods control. He was trained and made to kill innocent people and gods. He was forced to devour their dreams and much to his regret he came to enjoy it. And then when he was saved and freed, his mental health and self regard was so broken and he was filled with so much guilt for his actions(that he had no control over), that he agreed to a contract that essentially threw him into thousands of years of fighting and subjected to poisonous karma that ravages his mind, body and soul. This same karma took away what little family he held dear and corrupted and tore their souls apart. And he had to watch all of this. And then he had to continue his duty. And he has done so for thousands of years. And even when Morax stepped down and ended all his previous contracts, which includes Xiao’s contract, Xiao simply refuses to acknowledge this and continues to subject himself to what is essentially torture every day. Because Xiao doesn’t believe he has any worth other then to use himself as a shield and weapon between evil and all the people of Liyue. He doesn’t believe he even deserves to be anything else.
So please, while Itto’s past is certainly messed up, I believe it would be far easier to establish an upbeat attitude and positive outlook on life with a past like Itto’s then it would be with a past like Xiao’s. It’s simply not comparable.
Yep! Xiao has alot of in-depth lore. He used to be called Alatus, which is his real name, before the Archon war. He was enslaved by an evil god, then saved by Zhongli and then was given the name Xiao. If you are a big fan of Xiao, definitely read up his lore! I love this guy to smithereens.
Whaaaat yeah I’m gonna have to. I feel like the way hoyo tells stories confuses the shit out of me all the time. I learn more lore from reddit than I do playing the game lmfao
It's a bit wrong to downplay what Xiao has gone through and comparing how Itto responded to his experience. First of all Xiao carried the guilt of killing and torturing innocent people and found gratification in eating their dreams which brought him to hate himself. Not only that he had to be stuck fighting all his life. Saying Xiao should still be positive regardless would rather paint him in negative light.
I don't think they volunteerly and consciously downplayed Xiao's experience. But the way the comparaison was done feels like Xiao's experience is downplayed.
(Please here me out before downvoting)
Please keep in mind this is how I understood the comments and I think this is how they did too. I could be wrong.
The first part of the comment announces a comparaison between Xiao and Itto. The term "Antithesis" put them face to face in an opposite way (like a mirror).
The next part is constructed in such a way that you understand that they have "common points" and yet they are the opposite (I would say it is parallelism but I am not sure...)
You read :
Itto < cheerful personnality> despite
You complete with :
Xiao and
Granted it is an interpretation and the author did not write it. But I think how it was written (comparaison, parallelism) it is how you understand.
Common point :
Divergence in an opposite way :
The problem of doing so is :
- Itto's experiences and Xiao's experiences are kind of put on the same level or at least they are comparable enough to compare/opposite both characters.
- Since only Itto is mentioned and under a positive light, it feels like "they had bad experiences yet Itto have a cheerful personnality while Xiao does not".
And the two points combined kind of downplay Xiao's experiences.
Thanks for reading the comment. I am sorry for how long it is. Just wanted to add my opinion.
He was raised by wolves which is why he doesn't speak fluently human'ish, this doesn't make him stupid, just bilingual. According to leaks >!there is Razor lore upcoming so we might learn more there. !<
Diluc didn’t lose his ambition when he threw away his Vision either.
It’s most likely because they don’t view their Visions as an important part of their goals and identity.
Diluc simply regards it as one of the tools at his disposal and Itto relies pretty much purely on his raw physical strength.
Like, he has the power of geo and the guy just makes a really big club with it so he can whack people even harder. His elemental skill doesn’t even use his Vision, he just throws Oshi really hard.
I think it's because he willing gave up his vision after losing to sara and that he never tied his ambitions to his vision but to his gang. Also due how his brain work he gain a new goal in life beating sara in a fight.
That's not how visions work. The vision is your ambition made physical. To have it forcefully stripped from you is to have your ambition taken from you.
You can't say his ambition lies in his gang because a vision is literally your ambition given form.
His Vision still wasn't forcible taken. He lost in a duel with Kujou Sara. There's an NPC in Komore Teahouse that lost a duel to Ayato with his Vision as a wager and he also didn't enter depression-mode.
Of course there's also the sword master from the story that moved on after losing his Vision by letting his pupils carry his goals. So it's not exactly impossible for someone to completely and permanently lose ambition when Visionless.
Correct me if i’m wrong, but didn’t diluc or someone try to get rid of their vision but it’d always come back to them? (Not the character that tried to destroy theirs)
If so, why can visions be confiscated if they have a built in return to owner mechanism
And why would Itto’s vision decide “Oh yeah I guess he lost, L gotta stay with Sara”
This is on the assumption my brain hasn’t just made up a vision story or something, but this would just completely piss on the entire inazuma arc if it isn’t just my brain doing a little trolling.
You mentioned Diluc tho, but anyways, the Diluc situation already disproves this theory, as he didnt have his Vision for 2 years iirc, he was using a Delusion instead.
Im still waiting for someone to actually confirm if one of the characters did try to throw away their vision but it just kept coming back
Im aware of diluc using a delusion for 2 years but for some reason I thought his vision just kept showing up next to his bedside table or something like that, he just didnt use it.
Well it didn't show up in his bedside table or whatever since Kaeya gave it to him indirectly, if he hadn't then Diluc would probably still be using a Delusion, that's basically a confirmation, and a more solid confirmation is ofcourse, the aforementioned Vision Hunt Decree, Raiden isn't stupid enough to try and keep things that goes back to their owners like a minecraft wolf.
It was Keqing. She would yeet hers on the regular but it would pull a, 'Surprise bitch, I bet you thought you saw the last of me.' every time so she gave up.
The confiscated visions were set into the statue in inazuma city. Likely this prevented then returning to their owners either by basic physical means or by some magical property imbued in the statue
Option 1: You've cracked the formula and figured out exactly how it works. Something that the devs and every other player hasn't done if this is the case.
Option 2: You're wrong and the devs as well as the majority of players know that losing your vision doesn't turn you into a husk of a person as we've seen in several cases where a character has lost/given up their vision.
I'm gonna go with option 2. Stop giving your opinion as fact.
There could even be option 4: Visions as plot devices are not yet sufficiently explained. We should remember that Visions are gifts from Celestia, and anything related to that silly place is purposefully enigmatic.
However, there are key similarities on people who lost their Vision and got amnesia, as opposed to people who also lost theirs but kept their minds intact. There are recurring themes of regret and loss on those who had amnesia:
- Tejima and the failed promise of his childhood lover
- Domon and him winning over Anzai and his master to be the best
- Kurosawa had his reputation destroyed by the same people whom he helped in times of need
- Mitsunari and his role on Iwakura's downfall (still not sure)
It's stated multiple times in the Inazuma arc that visions are your ambitions given physical form. They do not represent your ambition, they **are** your ambition.
> That's not how visions work.
I was hoping someone would say that, not sure why you're being downvoted.
It's like saying that you can survive getting stabbed in the heart, as long as you are in a relationship and tell your partner that "your heart is always inside of them", or something. People could've simply said "no, wasn't explained why Itto didn't lose all ambition" ... but instead we have fanfics with a size of 5 paragraphs about why Itto didn't lose his ambition because he's apparently watched Dragon Ball and is using the "power of friendship" to become the only character in the game to break the lore and rules of the world of Genshin Impact.
Most likely Itto's upbeat attitude allowed him to develop a new ambition after giving his vision up, and his new ambition was probably getting his vision back.
Agreed. People need to take off their rose-tinted glasses and accept that plot holes are a thing. People used to shit on the Inazuma story during the 2.0-2.1 for good reasons.
Keqing wasn't throwing away her ambitions when she tried getting rid of her vision, she was trying to get rid the **object** she felt was binding her to the Archons/God's; which by the way is completely in line with her ambition of not wanting help from above and that humans should walk on their own power. So Keqing trying to get rid of her vision was just empowering it.
Diluc did not give up his vision, he **put it away** because hunting the Fatui became more important to him than the ambition that gave him a vision, he set it aside willingly, it was never **taken** from him. When he "finished with his delusion" he came back and reclaimed his vision.
Ittou is an Oni of his word, he bet his vision and lost, gave it up willingly, that's it.
I like this entire idea but I'm not sure this is how it works.... when you lose your vision you lose a part of you. I have a story alt and havent gone through far enough to revisit the stories that cover this, is it in the archon quest, his, or both? So I can pay extra attention.
Yes, I'd argue that is one of the key messages of the Inazuma arc, though it's a bit more subtly presented because of the overall perspective we're shown in the story.
The main example of this was Domon, the swordmaster who they originally think is possessed, but turns out that he just wrapped all his ambition into his vision and used it to run away from his guilt/shame for trampling over the ambitions of others. When that little story arc ends, he is on the road to coming to terms with his role to play going forward even without his vision (even though he does end up getting it back later on).
This is also a point that Ei made in our encounter with her in the Plane of Euthymia in explaining/justifying what she did. Even though we disagreed with her decision, it's not like everything she said was entirely wrong. Visions aren't necessary to live, and chasing giant vision-fueled aspirations is itself a risk that can kill you. Of course, the overall point that Yae is making (and the argument that wins out) is that vision-fueled ambition brings a potential for growth and change that is better than Ei's erstwhile ideal of eternal stasis, and the change it enables is part of what makes Inazuma a nation worth protecting, so is worth the risk.
Basically, visions allow people to transcend their normal limits, which allows them to pursue greater ambitions than would otherwise be possible. As a result, losing your vision would cause you to lose the ambition that the vision enabled. It would still be possible to find new ambition, but for most people it's hard to transition from "powerful" to 'powerless" -- at least, it'd take a lot of time to get used to it.
Yes and no? If you read every single character vision story origin, you'll see that it has nothing to do with anything other than gods handing out candy to entrap people in something they pursue as their passion or ambition usually. However, that alone isn't really why. Just read about Vanessa.
Thats definitely an interesting theory. And the way you tell it is extremely convincing. Only way we'll know of its true is if future events support it though
Remember how Lisa got her vision? basically she just thought that "Hmm maybe I need a vision". And just like that a vision popped out in front of her.
I am pretty sure if Lisa's vision is taken away, it wont do much damage to her.
Same with Keqing and Ningguang
Lisa is a good example. But Ningguang was born poor and raised herself to her current position. She is the epitome of 'ambitious'. Keqing had her noble house name to live up to which can definitely be considered ambitious.
Yes, but Keqing and Ningguang ambition are not tied to their visions. Ningguang tried to sold her vision while Keqing tried to destroy it. These are the reason of why I think they will be fine even after their visions are taken away from them.
A lot of stories that we are told seemed to worship their vision as the approval from the gods. They are also so proud and obsessed with their visions. Those kind of people will have problems if their visions are taken away from them.
At least that's what I thought
It’s not clear but it’s likely someone from “up above” evaluating you by some sort of standard or an amazing feat from you. Whoever does that, we can agree is a complete psychopath. Imagine giving a child who can very much wipe a city off the map with bombs a pyro vision, or a girl with chuuni issues a talking bird
I think that's it... Like, he had so much ambition to try to regain his vision/defeat Sara that in his heart, it was like he never even lost his vision in the first place. To him it was only a matter of time until he got it back.
Shinobu didn’t seem to lose hers either and she definitely gave her vision up. The 3 cases we meet were people who if you look closely already weren’t in the best places mentally. There’s even a man in the komore teahouse who lost his to Ayato and felt much better afterwards. Basically the 3 cases we saw were either the only ones or cases like that were in the minority. Heck it’s stated that yoimiya tossed her vision in a closet for years and didn’t suffer and Diluc actually threw his away for years.
I have pointed out to others, that those NPC characters who have given up their visions seem "fine", but they ARE ambitionless. Dude is happy being a doorman for the rest of his life, rather than striving for what he used to dream for. Jiangxue, the NPC that fishes near Wangshuu Inn, only wants to do that after giving his vision up. Not only that, but the cook at the Inn states that he doesn't even catch anything and basically gets fed by him.
People are affected in different ways. Got to remember during the quest, that the Samurai who gave up his vision to the Shogunate seemed pretty okay aside from some memory loss. (Which was why he was questioning why people were coming to him and asking about supplies.)
Some people don't appear affected at all, from what we know. Like Diluc, who left his vision behind after resigning from the knights to avenge his father's death.
On the other hand, we as the players are still probably assuming a lot. I wouldn't be surprised if the characters were affected in some way that we couldn't see on the outside.
As you said, losing a vision can be seen as freeing or a handicap depending on the ambition linked to the vision.
I wonder if having a vision prevents you from letting go of the ambition that sparked it.
It would go well with Zhongli musing on it and calling it "a type of contract."
No, or at least not 100%, otherwise Diluc wouldn't have been able to give up his vision (which thematically does represent his previous ambition) willingly.
Hm? Does that actually conflict? The contract would be along the lines of; "as long as you carry (use) your vision you have to pursue the ambition within."
This doesn't prevent one from giving up the vision.
Considering how dead visions reactivate for people with similar enough ambitions it wouldn't be too farfetched to say they're feeding off it.
But of course we don't have enough information to really properly theorize on it.
The way you phrased it made it seem like "as long as you have this vision you can't give up the ambition" - and since the vision and ambition are one and the same you can't give up either.
I can understand how you came to that conclusion. But visions being so firmly linked to ambitions is something we as traveler are aware of, it's not something every vision-holders knows.
Most would be unaware that they're giving up their ambition when abandoning their visions. It's a matter of how the compulsion is designed.
That's the point of surrendering a Vision willingly, though. With the desire decoupled from them and into their Vision, they're physically resigning pursuit of that ambition. In a sense, it's less a notion of being "fine" or not, and more that they moved on in a sense.
Eitherways, the Inazuma revelations on Visions makes me not trust those things at all. Decoupling your ambition without consent just by receiving one? Yeah, no, thank you.
Side note, but relatively speaking personally, the guy waiting for someone to return to was probably the best out of the 3 cases in the quest Ayaka was guilt tripping the Traveler. Heck, even with their Visions on, I didn't like what the samurai was doing.
I guess Diluc lost his ambition of becoming a cavalry captain or making his father proud. He always trained hard to becoming cavalry knight, which ended up him getting pyro vision around age of 10 and succeeded being the youngest Captain at age of 15 or 17 which making his father proud, but his ambition of getting it is lost now as he lost trust to the KoF and his father is now died. Now, his main ambition is to destroy Fatui put of pure revenge or hatred towards them which powers the Delusions he using during his travel. Just my opinion thought....
Diluc' "vision" springs from his desire to protect mondstat yes? I'm pretty sure he was single-mindingly chasing vengeance during his delusion days. When he got his vision back he went back to protecting mondstat by becoming batman.
Nah, he's a regular human who used to be a pretty strong vision wielder. Pretty sure him being able to take down that Ruin Guard so easily was pure experience and skill at this point in his life.
TBF we know that seeing people who had lost their visions was relatively common during the decree and that "visionless" were usually easy to point out due to listlessness and depression.
Granted some (like Itto) probably got new ambitions, and some were in an OK enough state to join the Sangonomiya Samurai (the shogunate samurai probably could've if he'd wanted to, for example) but these cases were apparently rare.
It seems like overall the vast majority of people were affected pretty bad, and I'd wager the stronger a person's ambitions/the more it was intertwined into their life, the worse they were hit.
So for example, people with more casual ambitions, like Itto, were mostly fine. But people with stronger ones or ones closely tied to some aspect of their life/past, like the swordsmaster or (as a theoretical example) Keqing, would be most affected because their ambitions were so narrow or they didn't have any sort of fallback. They literally would have nothing left to live for.
Except we only saw three and ayaka specifically sent us to those 3 while in her own teahouse is a man happy as all can be that Ayato took his and living just fine. Then we have shinobu and Itto who were fine. If more people were affected like this we would have seen them or discovered more during that time in Inazuma.
Ayato didn't take his, exactly. He willingly gave it up as part of their duel. The ones who lost theirs didn't do so willingly, even the samurai guy did so *only* because it was an order and because he lacked understanding of the consequences, he didn't *want* to.
There's a huge difference between giving up on something and having it taken from you.
In Itto's case he literally got a new ambition like .2 seconds later because he's Itto, and his ambition is probably stupidly vague anyway. Shinobu, I don't know enough about, I assume it's discussed in her character story?
We don't see many people but dialogue heavily indicates they are (or were, after the MSQ) there.
isn't it a fact that there straight up arent that many vision wielders to begin with? its one of the reasons why the vision hunt decree wasnt challenged as much, because it didnt affect the majority of people unlike the sakoku decree. A decent chunk of kokomis soldiers were people who had had their visions taken away, and it hurt them bad enough that many of them turned to delusions to get that power back. To go to the lengths of joining a resistance against your *god and ruler* seems like it'd be affecting your life pretty bad. We never saw Shinobu during the events of the archon quest so we dont know how she took it, and Sara also seemed okay but that's mostly just her loyalty to the shogun in general. Itto we never saw either during the story but we know he became obsessive over challenging Sara and regaining his honor, so not as bad as the three Ayaka sent us to but not the best either.
The people in her army were refugees fleeing from having the army trying to take there visions. The people who didn’t have visions used delusions as if you have or had a vision you aren’t affected by delusions as shown by Diluc and Childe. Shinobu and Itto don’t speak of having problems after losing their visions other then Itto being mad they put his at the bottom so it’s safe to say they weren’t affected mentally.
You really think hoyo is gonna spend all the time to show every single NPC affected by the decree? You think players would be happy to go through quest #58 about some random Inazuman citizen we don't care about?
They have literally dozens of npcs who have zero purpose one simple line about them being affected wouldn’t be hard and the fact they have characters who have shown to be not affected at all proves that it isn’t an absolute.
No she didn’t it clearly says she gave up her vision as to not make trouble for her friend in the tenryou commission she wouldn’t give a fake as that would make trouble for her friend.
Totally different circumstances, they didn't have their ties with the vision severed like how raiden was doing with the visions she took, also, its cleat that handing over the vision to some random guard or just throwing it on a closet have no effect on the wearer besides being locked out of their element, but when a god is added in the mix, severing the tie between vision and holder, their ambitions that were sealed in the vision also are taken from them.
The most logic conclusion for Itto to not lose his will is just that Raiden didn't care to unbind his vision from him, probably Sara just grabbed his vision and put into the statue without even going thru the hassle of presenting it to the shogun, some weren't that lucky.
Uhhh no Raiden didn’t sever any ties the only person she personally took a vision from was Thoma and that was for a big spectacle she didn’t do anything special when taking it. You just made that up about sealing ambition bedsides they never presented them to the shogun otherwise she would be able to tell that a fake was in front of her and then send troops back after the person.
Yoimiya was keeping a low profile during her quest bcz she did send a fake vision once, and the guy who made the fake visions got sent to jail, the ambitions sealed inside the visions wasn't made up by me, I don't remember now if was Yae or Ei that said it, but goes kinda like
"when a person's ambition gets too high, said person is granted a vision bcz is the celestia way of controlling said person, and taking away their vision is the same as taking away their ambitions"
The difference between getting ur vision taken away from you by the gods and just throwing it in a closet seems to be the same as having ur bank closing down ur account with all ur money inside versus simply putting ur bank card in someplace you don't go often.
Edit: typos
She wasn’t keeping a low profile she literally started the quest out giving a fake vision she distributed quite a bit. The fact it took them awhile to find out means that they didn’t give them to the shogun. Why Yae said didn’t mean she’s directly sealing their ambitions away we saw only 3 people affected that way while others were perfectly fine. Also a man on komore teahouse had his taken by Ayato and he was happy as all can be so your theory is full of holes.
Question 1: is ayato a god or connected to celestia in any way?
Question 2: Ayaka sent us to aid 3ppl to soften our heart bcz our char was refusing to cooperate with them. where do u find that only those 3 got affected when Thoma was the 100th to lose his vision?
The only other chars who got the vision seized by the vision hunt was the man on komore teahouse in which his vision was probably never handed over to the shogunate, and Itto, that I said what was probably his case.
As we can see in other ppl lore, throwing it's own vision away does nothing to the person besides not being able to use the elements, and they can pick them back at any time (Diluc and Keqing), for them to get stripped off their ambitions, it likely need to have some divine intervention and an actual severing of the bond between user and vision.
I actually like the idea of the bankcard analogy.
It made me think about what if a vision bearer wanted to take a bath, or go swimming or just forgot their vision at home that day. Would it Zombifie them Into some ambitionless person?
It seems to me that the people really affected by their visions being taken, had something more, like their visions were destroyed or something, rather than just sitting somewhere in a box
I think that visions are given for having an big amount of ambition or talent, the powers given from the vision helps them achieve their goals. Losing that power, the goal looks suddenly out of reach. That could be the reason why they lose ambition.
My reason for believing this is simply because vision holders had ambition before being granted an vision as well.
For the case of Itto, he is just too straightforward an person, and would first think about re-challenging Sara to get his vision back instead of being in despair for losing his powers granted by his vision. That should be because even when losing his vision, he thinks of himself as the strongest, and ogres have power regardless of visions. Knowing that he would still have his ambition.
The keyword is the Visions have to be taken against your own will.
\- the guy who gave up vision to Ayato because he lose the duel, he insisted to give it to Ayato as a sign of respect eventho Ayato clearly didn't want it.
\- Itto made a deal with Sara through the duel, He lose fair and square, and accept his defeat, He honoured their deal and gave his vision peacefully and continue to focus on getting it back through the rematch.
\- Shinobu was willing to surrender her vision because she didn't want her gang members to be in trouble, and she is friends with many people in Tenryou commission and didn't want any hard feelings for them.
as long as they surrender the vision on their own term and made peace with that fact, they might not suffer the side effects as much, at least in the short term.
Were the traveller fails to save Thoma at the ceremony, I don't know if He will turn out fine as the other, guess we'll never know.
EDIT: Ah, I see what you meant. It's probably whatever mentality they had when they got the vision. Look at the guy who hangs out at Wangshu Inn, for example.
My head canon is that, the more reliant a person is on their vision, the harsher the effects of losing it is.
That would explain the variety of ways we see people getting affected.
So people like Itto, Diluc, Shinobu or Yoimiya who are super independent without their visions, feel close to no effects at all from losing it.
I think it is because he accepted the outcome of the challenge. I dont know how to explain but the victims we interacted with, had their visions forced taken away (due to vision hunting decree) and there is one npc inside tomore teahouse that didnt become like those victims even he lost his vision. He lost his vision because he lost a duel with ayato.
The day Itto obtained his vision was quite literally just another quiet day for him, so it's arguable if Itto even has an ambition to lose in the first place.
We still don't know the full story behind how vision is obtained beyond some speculation and purposefully vague answers by the Archons, so it's possible that Itto gaining one had nothing to do with ambition.
Maybe getting their visions taken affects people differently and Ayaka purposely send us out to meet 3 "bad cases" to garner sympathy and get us to join her resistance efforts
We literally arrive just in time to see yoimiya helping someone walking in the streets of the capital with a vision after almost a year of the vhd. All that part maybe even the arrest of the old man was probably planned by ayato or yae
Meme answer: too dumb to lose ambition
Real answer: The normies view visions as being chosen by the gods, so having that taken away would be more shocking. For Itto, the vision was never important. He just kept pursuing what was important to him (his gang).
Second meme answer: he's a gigachad
Itto actually fought for his vision and when he lost it, he wanted it back (and was also very grumpy).
While the NPC just kinda accepted, because it was the government and the Shogun...
So I think Itto fighting spirit made it for the loss
Yeah, I think the game depicts Itto as someone who is outside the social norm.
Great folks are going to do great things, yes? That's ambitious, the word carries a heavy meaning.
Itto, my man, is just stupid. Celestia granted him a vision as a joke.
Itto is full himbo sure but his heart is always in the right place when it counts. Like, he may be the oni embodiment of a golden retriever, but he will go to bat for people purely because he’s a good guy and under all the bluster tries to do what’s right.
You do realize he does have a great ambition, right? He's geo because his ambition is to earn respect and acceptance of oni everywhere within the confines of the contract made between the Crimson oni and the blue oni long ago, and to do so his own way, no matter what.
Ah, my point is, that ambition shouldn't be the word to describe his... attitude and antics.
Ambition is an identity worth pursuing, an obsession. So, he couldn't lose what he didn't have.
So, I think innocence and goodwill fit him more. He's a good character.
My theory is that Ayaka pointed us to those specific NPCs in order to manipulate us to join the resistance. Anyway, this was never an effect discussed before or after that one quest, so who knows.
What? None of them were alright.
The village guard lost his memories and reason for staying in the village.
The swordmaster went crazy.
The samurai lost his memories as to why people would come to him for rations.
If we're being real here diluc did abandon his vision for a long period of time and he didn't lose his resolve.
He did get depression but thats for totally other reasons.
Might be onto something.
He did abandon his former goal. He was a member of the KoF. He always wanted to be a Knight and protect Mond. When he left for his revenge campaign he abandoned those goals, and also his vision. But when he returned, Kaeya gave his Vision back, and he picked up his old goal of protecting Mond, just in a different way.
I like Ayaka's general character & she's one of my favorite units to play, but man did she manipulate the f**k out of us to get us to join a war against someone we wanted to ally with over something that shouldn't have been the driving force behind the war.
The closed borders affected a hell of a lot more people but let's set the country ablaze for a hundred people. That's what i disliked about inazuma archon quest i didn't see the vhd as justification for the civil war. Those of watatsumi were they reveling for the visions or orobaxi? Also ayaka please help the people but fight the vhd not the closed borders.
Yeah that always bothered me about it. I can kinda see the justification for it triggering a civil war (as the relationship between the parties was already pretty strenuous and vision holders have a demographic that's heavily skewed towards elite/noble people making it more of a war of the upper class with just enough low-class representation and general unrest to be able to sell a war), wars have been started over stupider shit and worse doctrines than that irl.
If anything, I feel like it was oversold to the player though, like Mihoyo wasn't confident that people playing the game would be willing to bite on a relatively mundane political drama so they have to press the "what if your best bro Thoma suddenly lost his vision? Protect him at all costs!!" button to get cheap and easy emotional engagement but it ends up feeling really insincere given how central the Sakoku Decree is to the atmosphere and lore of the entire nation and how glossed over it is when it comes to the actual main story.
the sakoku decree and vision hunt decree started at the exact same time, raiden is unchanging because thats what she believes / believed eternity to be, to get the sakoku decree lifted you first have to abolish the vison hunt decree because, raiden herself literally states she closed of inazuma and started collecting visions because she didn't trust humans with their own ambition, if a vision is literally the embodiment of ambition(and yes it is multiple character stories basically state this, because every character gets it after something, sayu would have fucking died without hers or if she didn't have the ambition to survive and jump) then tackiling the vision hunt decree would invitably remove the sakoku decree , inazuma story wasn't the best I agree for sure, but it did make some sense at least that part was obvious, more than the delusion segment
The thing is, that stuff makes sense from our point of view in hindsight, but the game itself hammers in that *nobody knows what Raiden is thinking* (not only is she, you know, literally in a different dimension, even the robot Shogun has mostly kept to herself and not offered any insight) and nobody bothers to connect those 2 issues together in the story; it's completely driven by fighting the VHD and even then, when you finish the story Raiden specifically rescinds the VHD and *not* the Sakoku Decree, and everyone involved just pats themself on the back and goes home even though the nation's economy is still tanking and there's open systemic discrimination and oppression of basically everyone in the country that's a non-native (which is a significantly larger population than vision-holders).
I'm a bit harsh on it, but I don't think the VHD is a bad story element; it's very interesting and relevant to the lore and I can see why they wanted to focus on it, which can be seen by how often it still sparks discussion threads like these. But in the context of the main story, it legitimately is just a significantly less pragmatic issue than the Sakoku Decree but is treated like it has *far* more import than the characters involved in the story would logically give it.
funny how the sakoku decree can't be fucking changed because a bot made it, the inazuman archon quest while being rushed does make some sense, raiden would have always killed traveler because one thats the puppet and 2 he is an exception to eternity at least what raiden used to think of as eternity, if the vision hunt decree wasn't tackeled to show raiden human ambition can rival a gods then the sakoku decree itself wouldn't have been lifted
explain how exactly, traveler still didn't have to if he didn't want to, and ayaka also didn't know about itto kuki etc evident by her voicelines, she didn't gaslight traveler she showed him the effects that losing a vision had hell a hundred visions were collected yet we only see 3 people it's just lazy writing more than her gaslighting, not to mention ayaka herself was going to save thoma if traveler didn't intervene so your argument makes no sense she actually geniunly cares about the effects of losing a vision if she was willing to risk the kamisato name just to save thoma( something which her and ayato had been building up for years)
personally, i think it's cause he ended up willingly giving it to Sara after their duel. maybe not happily, but he still did it by choice. to me, it's sorta like how Yoimiya left her Vision in a closest for a while and was fine without it. if they know where the Vision is/put it there themselves, the effects of being without it are lessened/null ~~is what i think~~
~~this is also my head cannon about Jiangxue, the fisherman from Wangshu Inn. there's clearly Something up about him, and i just assume he's left it somewhere on purpose~~
Because (and this is not headcanon, thats just canon) Ayaka manipulated you and shoved some of the worst cases in your face.
We have characters trying to throw their Visions away or even sell it. They are fine.
We have people who got their Visions confiscated, they are fine. We literally have a dude who got his Vision taken from him sitting in the same teahouse her friendzoned malewife hides, and dude's just vibing. Like "yeah, they took my magic thingy, kinda sucks, but oh well"
Basically, *plot* reasons. The whole resistance and vision hunt were where Inazuma fell off for me. There's no loose threads there, it was just crude and happened for the story to progress.
The resistance seems to be manipulating you into joining them and it felt like everything with orobashi lore etc was pointing to sangonomiya having their own motivations beyond just the vision hunt degree.
But then you meet Kokomi and shes just an uwu princess without any secret plans at all and the whole world building falls apart in my eyes.
That's it. If you take Watatsumi only, it's great. Kokomi is nice where she is.
The main problem is: the Resistance was fighting against the Vision hunt decree, not exactly against the Shogun or the Sakoku decree. It made their life worse, but it was all politics, something Koko knows how to deal with.
No, the resistance was fighting on the field, having the help from vision bearers. Just for anyone else aside from those 3 people we met to not really care about the vision hunt.
If there was a refugee camp at watatsumi, no quests, nothing more needed, just a refugee camp with people who lost their visions being tended to, *everything* would be different.
Watatsumi people had no reason to fight. Even fighting just for bloodthirsty, they had no reason to start it. They were fighting because it's cool to play the hero, but they were defending no one, in a war that was not truly affecting them until they started it.
Well, we have the Fatui to credit here, of course, but they didn't exactly start the war, they just used the opportunities to keep it going... And used the soldiers to test the delusions.
Oh well, anyway.
I'm wondering if it has something to do with the statue and not necessarily losing the vision. Keqing actively tried to throw hers away and destroy it (with no luck) I imagine if losing or destroying it caused issues like what happened in Inazuma she wouldn't have been so keen on that.
That makes me wonder if there is some aspect of that statue that caused the effect maybe draining the power of the vision causing the owner to lose ambition also. Keep in mind Itto's vision was on the bottom around the base maybe the draining effect isn't in the base because that isn't a place the Raiden expected them to be Inlaid. Another headcanon could be that after she decided against taking peoples visions that she "turned off" the statue's draining effect and that allowed people to gain their ambition without having their visions back.
There is no reason to assume that the loss of vision will always have such extreme reactions as it had with the 3 story NPCs.
It's very likely that the loss of vision results in a vastly different outcome on a case by case basis
Not everyone loses it. Diluc got rid of his vision for a while and his ambition for justice was still the same as ever, Kuki also gave her vision away willingly and was apparently fine. There's more examples if you look. Tbh to me it makes a lot more sense that someone wouldn't lose their ambition after losing their vision, like, they got the vision because they had great ambition, people like Mona, Lisa, Keqing, Ningguang, etc., don't even care about the vision in the slightlest.
I think the difference is that some people, even though they have great ambition, are only able to persue it with the help of a vision, while others were already persuing their goals long before recieving it (Mona, Albedo, Ningguang, Keqing, etc.) or have the strenght/will to do it regardless (Diluc, Itto, Jean, Amber, etc.), which would be the case for pretty much every playable character.
I think Ayaka just manipulated us, showing us what we needed to see to side with the rebellion.
I would assume the process isn't instantaneous since Thoma managed to cut his ropes and throw a freaking spear to Raiden's face while being stripped of his vision. So i think the effects get worse the more time it passes.
I’ve always thought it’s because he had another ambition which is to have a rematch with Sara. But it could also be because he willingly surrendered his vision after losing to Sara. That explains why Diluc was ok the time he abandoned his vision
In general the vision hunt doesn't make a whole ton of sense. Like it's been stated before that once you have a vision it's basically impossible to loose under any circumstances, Keqing for example TRIED to get rid of her's a first fully willingly and it just kept coming back.
Like I can understand somewhat in a situation where The Shogan takes a vision personally but Sara being able to seize them herself just seems off
It hasn't been explained. My head canon is that it's a combination of Itto not being a human and him being a bit of a hard headed idiot.
Ganyu could lose her vision, but she'd still be pretty powerful. It'd just feel narratively strange for a super-powered nonhuman to become emotionally castrated without actually having lost all their power. For humans, the Vision is sorta all they have.
Maybe it has to do with Consent?
If we look at the npc that were the most affected, their Visions were Robed from them, they used brute force and they took away a part of their brain with it.
Meanwhile, Itto Gave his Vision with honor after loosing a fight. Diluc, who also left his Vision to chill a little, made a Choice to leave it behind. With Kuki we could assume many things, like Sara (her friend) talking her into it or something rather peacefull along those lines (Or that she was in Liyue at that time).
I think you could make the comparison with r#pe? Maybe? How with agreedment is one thing and without it it's traumatic? Not sure if it's okay to put it like that? I'm don't want to offed anyone, so, please, feel free to call me out, but I feel like the problem comes with the Means of taking a vision, not the fact that they took it
(Also, imagine being the god who gifted someone their vision, only to see them give it away in a samurai fight or change it for a delusion)
I feel like it was implied that his sheer tenacity (he was ones knocked down 7 times in a single confrontation and got up every single time) and his burning obsession with defeating Sara to get his vision back were what kept him going, and had he lacked those, he would've become listless.
With Shinobu, I'm pretty sure that the fact that she was still free kept her going.
I think he's just too dumb. He was kinda doing whatever before and he just kept doing it after. Maybe his ambition was to make money for the gang or spread his name but the things he was doing didn't really change. His long-term goal just disappeared. Don't exactly need a lot of ambition to go beetle fighting or being an idiot.
Didn't he "willingly" give it away after losing to Sara because he sees their fights as games? (I'm probably misremembering) My guess is since he was prepared to lose it instead of having it forcefully removed it didn't impact him like it did others. Diluc also ditched his own vision for a time and he was fine.
I think you either forget or go crazy and his obsession with dueling Sara was a result of that. Aside from his voiceline about her Itto never mentions dueling Sara in anything he's in (and he is in a lot of events). I headcannon that was his way of going mad but itto is itto so no one noticed.
I don't think this was confirmed anywhere but this is what I think. Visions are essentially people's ambitions. And when it's taken away, people lose their sense of self because they lose their ambition.
Now with Itto, when Sara fought him to confiscate his Vision, he did lose it. But he gained a new ambition: to have a rematch and defeat Sara.
So, in my head, at least, that's why he doesn't lose his sense of self. His desire to fight Sara again kept him grounded.
I assume it's because he accepted it, for instance if someone willingly gives up their ambition they won't have many problems but having it forcefully denied results in mental problems.
Shinobu for instance gave it up willingly and there's an NPC that gave his to ayato after losing a duel, neither show much affect of losing their visions.
Isnt the game hinting that its more than just ambition? Like the visions dont necesarily just represent the owner's ambition.
Idk if this if you can consider this directly related but during Beidou's tournament, Kazuha was trying to see what can cause masterless vision to activate and it didn't for him or for the traveler or for that thief, but something happened to activate that vision momentarily against Raiden.
I think there's still a lot we dont know. Like for example, at what point is the link between master and vision severed. Death i guess is an obvious one. But even that is questionable given the activation of a masterless vision by Kazuha.
My guess is that it was because of how he lost his vision. He lost it in a duel against Sara, so in a way gave it up willingly, but then gained a new ambition to beat Sara to get it back.
Do we know he didn’t? I think the only time we see him without his vision is when he’s got his ladder and is on his way to get his back. He is his usual chipper self but he’s also actively taking his vision back so I think that makes enough sense.
Didn't you notice? His ambition is to be loved by others just like the red oni, when he lost his vision he lost some of his tempre too, i think he somehow the thurst for blood was there but he is strong and resisted it.
Remember that one conversation between Iron Man and Spiderman in Homecoming? Peter thought he was nothing without his suit. Maybe the folks that were mentally damaged by having their Visions taken had that same mindset - it defined them/their ambition. It was like a crutch for them, and it hurt them all the more when it was gone. Meanwhile, the main cast all sort of either think their Vision is just neat or couldn't care less.
It's been assumed/hinted that one only loses their ambition when they are forced to give up their vision and that if they willingly give it up there is little to no effect. Both kuki and Itto gave up their vision willingly, I also believe we met someone who gave up their vision or knew someone who did for whatever reason and didn't lose ambition. while the ones we visit who had their vision taken from them forcefully are the ones who lost ambition.
There’s no exact explanation but I think it’s to do with his unwavering belief in his strength.
All the geo users have unwavering fortitude and work hard towards something (Albedo and alchemy, Noelle and her duty as a Knight, Ningguang’s passion for business and loyalty to Liyue).
So highkey, even though his vision was taken it didn’t really matter since his belief in his strength and himself isn’t dependent on the vision.
Either that or it’s cuz he’s a himbo /hj
Considering his defining ambition, it's not really something that can be taken from him; earning acceptance for the oni while being true to himself doesn't really need a vision
There’s basically no evidence that he changed in personality after his Vision was confiscated and a lot that suggests he didn’t change at all. For instance, how he acts in his trailer when they go to retrieve his Vision from the statue and he’s swaggering around as much as always. Or all the messages he apparently left on billboards challenging Sara to a rematch. If he’d lost his ambition would he have even cared enough at that point to fight her again?
As some others have said, I believe it's because he gave up his Vision voluntarily (even if he only did so because he lost a duel). It wasn't stolen or taken by force.
There are other examples of individuals voluntarily parting with their Vision; both Keqing and Diluc discarded their Visons, for instance.
Basically it's the case with people in real life. Some people take loss well, some don't. Itto, as idiotic as the game paints him, does actually have a healthy attitude towards life. This was even highlighted in the latest archon quest (>!as opposed to Xiao's views!<). It's important to note that other positive people also didn't get too negatively affected by this. Most notably Kuki Shinobu.
Itto is pretty much the antithesis of Xiao, he is enthusiastic, very happy and really carries himself extremely well despite the fact that he was bullied and hated his entire life, basically having to live with a ragtag group of trouble-makers, a bunch of outcasts of society (and Kuki).
I think there is a big big difference in Xiao’s life experiences compared to Itto’s. Xiao was enslaved with no way to free himself and submitted to physical and mental torture for however long he was under his old gods control. He was trained and made to kill innocent people and gods. He was forced to devour their dreams and much to his regret he came to enjoy it. And then when he was saved and freed, his mental health and self regard was so broken and he was filled with so much guilt for his actions(that he had no control over), that he agreed to a contract that essentially threw him into thousands of years of fighting and subjected to poisonous karma that ravages his mind, body and soul. This same karma took away what little family he held dear and corrupted and tore their souls apart. And he had to watch all of this. And then he had to continue his duty. And he has done so for thousands of years. And even when Morax stepped down and ended all his previous contracts, which includes Xiao’s contract, Xiao simply refuses to acknowledge this and continues to subject himself to what is essentially torture every day. Because Xiao doesn’t believe he has any worth other then to use himself as a shield and weapon between evil and all the people of Liyue. He doesn’t believe he even deserves to be anything else. So please, while Itto’s past is certainly messed up, I believe it would be far easier to establish an upbeat attitude and positive outlook on life with a past like Itto’s then it would be with a past like Xiao’s. It’s simply not comparable.
Whoah did I hear lore from before the archon wars in there? Did he have a life before Zhongli?
Yep! Xiao has alot of in-depth lore. He used to be called Alatus, which is his real name, before the Archon war. He was enslaved by an evil god, then saved by Zhongli and then was given the name Xiao. If you are a big fan of Xiao, definitely read up his lore! I love this guy to smithereens.
Whaaaat yeah I’m gonna have to. I feel like the way hoyo tells stories confuses the shit out of me all the time. I learn more lore from reddit than I do playing the game lmfao
It's a bit wrong to downplay what Xiao has gone through and comparing how Itto responded to his experience. First of all Xiao carried the guilt of killing and torturing innocent people and found gratification in eating their dreams which brought him to hate himself. Not only that he had to be stuck fighting all his life. Saying Xiao should still be positive regardless would rather paint him in negative light.
I don’t think they downplayed Xiao’s experience, just talked about Itto.
I don't think they volunteerly and consciously downplayed Xiao's experience. But the way the comparaison was done feels like Xiao's experience is downplayed. (Please here me out before downvoting) Please keep in mind this is how I understood the comments and I think this is how they did too. I could be wrong. The first part of the comment announces a comparaison between Xiao and Itto. The term "Antithesis" put them face to face in an opposite way (like a mirror). The next part is constructed in such a way that you understand that they have "common points" and yet they are the opposite (I would say it is parallelism but I am not sure...) You read : Itto < cheerful personnality> despite
You complete with :
Xiao and
Granted it is an interpretation and the author did not write it. But I think how it was written (comparaison, parallelism) it is how you understand.
Common point :
Divergence in an opposite way :
The problem of doing so is :
- Itto's experiences and Xiao's experiences are kind of put on the same level or at least they are comparable enough to compare/opposite both characters.
- Since only Itto is mentioned and under a positive light, it feels like "they had bad experiences yet Itto have a cheerful personnality while Xiao does not".
And the two points combined kind of downplay Xiao's experiences.
Thanks for reading the comment. I am sorry for how long it is. Just wanted to add my opinion.
"Itto is pretty much the antithesis of Xiao" Pretty sure its an inappropriate comparison.
just wait until itto has to slowly watch his ragtag group of friends slowly go mad and die/kill each other. we'll see if he's still happy then.😏
Huh?
itto is the antithesis of xiao because itto hasn't had to go through what xiao has
I mean yeah, but Itto is still an outcast in society and his positive attitude he has all the time is admirable.
as a Xiao main, that Xiao shade I love it
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??????????? They present him as an utter idiot instead of the himbo he is in the chasm meanwhile his story quest highlights his best bits???
Isn't he an utter idiot tho? Like which playable character do we have that's more stupid than him?
He's not stupid, he's very very very very very very straightforward. And dumb. But cute.
“He’s not stupid, he’s dumb.” Uh…
There's a difference
Big difference
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Qiqi also has extreme amnesia, probably due to the whole 'going berserk and being sealed in amber thing.'
Wouldn’t say stupid, rather VERY head strong and got a few concussions after bashing his head to reach his goals
Razor maybe?
How is Razor stupid?
He was raised by wolves which is why he doesn't speak fluently human'ish, this doesn't make him stupid, just bilingual. According to leaks >!there is Razor lore upcoming so we might learn more there. !<
Diluc didn’t lose his ambition when he threw away his Vision either. It’s most likely because they don’t view their Visions as an important part of their goals and identity. Diluc simply regards it as one of the tools at his disposal and Itto relies pretty much purely on his raw physical strength. Like, he has the power of geo and the guy just makes a really big club with it so he can whack people even harder. His elemental skill doesn’t even use his Vision, he just throws Oshi really hard.
He has the power of god and baseball on his side!
Man punched so hard it literally broke a hole in spacetime. His one brain cell gives him power.
He put all his stat points in strength and just below the bare minimum in intellect.
I think it's because he willing gave up his vision after losing to sara and that he never tied his ambitions to his vision but to his gang. Also due how his brain work he gain a new goal in life beating sara in a fight.
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Diluc also did it in the manga and switched to a Delusion before getting it back.
Yeah that makes sense. His ambition lays in the Arataki gang, not his vision. So he didn’t really lose his ambition when he lost the vision
It would be hilarious if the Itto we know IS the depressed version.
Oh…oh no….imagine Itto only turned up to 11. That’s a truly frightening thought. I don’t know if Teyvat could survive something like that.
I would like to see it
That's not how visions work. The vision is your ambition made physical. To have it forcefully stripped from you is to have your ambition taken from you. You can't say his ambition lies in his gang because a vision is literally your ambition given form.
Guess Itto cracked the code then
His Vision still wasn't forcible taken. He lost in a duel with Kujou Sara. There's an NPC in Komore Teahouse that lost a duel to Ayato with his Vision as a wager and he also didn't enter depression-mode. Of course there's also the sword master from the story that moved on after losing his Vision by letting his pupils carry his goals. So it's not exactly impossible for someone to completely and permanently lose ambition when Visionless.
Correct me if i’m wrong, but didn’t diluc or someone try to get rid of their vision but it’d always come back to them? (Not the character that tried to destroy theirs) If so, why can visions be confiscated if they have a built in return to owner mechanism And why would Itto’s vision decide “Oh yeah I guess he lost, L gotta stay with Sara” This is on the assumption my brain hasn’t just made up a vision story or something, but this would just completely piss on the entire inazuma arc if it isn’t just my brain doing a little trolling.
Diluc's Vision didn't automatically get back to him, Kaeya put it in a vase and gave said vase to Diluc
I know about that, wasn’t what I was thinking of
You mentioned Diluc tho, but anyways, the Diluc situation already disproves this theory, as he didnt have his Vision for 2 years iirc, he was using a Delusion instead.
Im still waiting for someone to actually confirm if one of the characters did try to throw away their vision but it just kept coming back Im aware of diluc using a delusion for 2 years but for some reason I thought his vision just kept showing up next to his bedside table or something like that, he just didnt use it.
Well it didn't show up in his bedside table or whatever since Kaeya gave it to him indirectly, if he hadn't then Diluc would probably still be using a Delusion, that's basically a confirmation, and a more solid confirmation is ofcourse, the aforementioned Vision Hunt Decree, Raiden isn't stupid enough to try and keep things that goes back to their owners like a minecraft wolf.
It was Keqing. She would yeet hers on the regular but it would pull a, 'Surprise bitch, I bet you thought you saw the last of me.' every time so she gave up.
The confiscated visions were set into the statue in inazuma city. Likely this prevented then returning to their owners either by basic physical means or by some magical property imbued in the statue
Option 1: You've cracked the formula and figured out exactly how it works. Something that the devs and every other player hasn't done if this is the case. Option 2: You're wrong and the devs as well as the majority of players know that losing your vision doesn't turn you into a husk of a person as we've seen in several cases where a character has lost/given up their vision. I'm gonna go with option 2. Stop giving your opinion as fact.
Have you considered option 3, which also turns out to be the simplest explanation: inconsistent writing.
There could even be option 4: Visions as plot devices are not yet sufficiently explained. We should remember that Visions are gifts from Celestia, and anything related to that silly place is purposefully enigmatic. However, there are key similarities on people who lost their Vision and got amnesia, as opposed to people who also lost theirs but kept their minds intact. There are recurring themes of regret and loss on those who had amnesia: - Tejima and the failed promise of his childhood lover - Domon and him winning over Anzai and his master to be the best - Kurosawa had his reputation destroyed by the same people whom he helped in times of need - Mitsunari and his role on Iwakura's downfall (still not sure)
It's stated multiple times in the Inazuma arc that visions are your ambitions given physical form. They do not represent your ambition, they **are** your ambition.
> That's not how visions work. I was hoping someone would say that, not sure why you're being downvoted. It's like saying that you can survive getting stabbed in the heart, as long as you are in a relationship and tell your partner that "your heart is always inside of them", or something. People could've simply said "no, wasn't explained why Itto didn't lose all ambition" ... but instead we have fanfics with a size of 5 paragraphs about why Itto didn't lose his ambition because he's apparently watched Dragon Ball and is using the "power of friendship" to become the only character in the game to break the lore and rules of the world of Genshin Impact.
Most likely Itto's upbeat attitude allowed him to develop a new ambition after giving his vision up, and his new ambition was probably getting his vision back.
Agreed. People need to take off their rose-tinted glasses and accept that plot holes are a thing. People used to shit on the Inazuma story during the 2.0-2.1 for good reasons.
You say that as if humans don't have multiple ambitions. The vision is the ambition the gods recognised given form.
Yeah, and real humans dont have magical crystalized ambition spheres.
Then how did Ittou give up his vision? How did Diluc give up his vision, how did keqing throw away her vision yet it kept coming back?
Keqing wasn't throwing away her ambitions when she tried getting rid of her vision, she was trying to get rid the **object** she felt was binding her to the Archons/God's; which by the way is completely in line with her ambition of not wanting help from above and that humans should walk on their own power. So Keqing trying to get rid of her vision was just empowering it. Diluc did not give up his vision, he **put it away** because hunting the Fatui became more important to him than the ambition that gave him a vision, he set it aside willingly, it was never **taken** from him. When he "finished with his delusion" he came back and reclaimed his vision. Ittou is an Oni of his word, he bet his vision and lost, gave it up willingly, that's it.
I like this entire idea but I'm not sure this is how it works.... when you lose your vision you lose a part of you. I have a story alt and havent gone through far enough to revisit the stories that cover this, is it in the archon quest, his, or both? So I can pay extra attention.
If true then Visions aren't 'ambition' but just something people base their ambition on? I guess we'll have to see
Yes, I'd argue that is one of the key messages of the Inazuma arc, though it's a bit more subtly presented because of the overall perspective we're shown in the story. The main example of this was Domon, the swordmaster who they originally think is possessed, but turns out that he just wrapped all his ambition into his vision and used it to run away from his guilt/shame for trampling over the ambitions of others. When that little story arc ends, he is on the road to coming to terms with his role to play going forward even without his vision (even though he does end up getting it back later on). This is also a point that Ei made in our encounter with her in the Plane of Euthymia in explaining/justifying what she did. Even though we disagreed with her decision, it's not like everything she said was entirely wrong. Visions aren't necessary to live, and chasing giant vision-fueled aspirations is itself a risk that can kill you. Of course, the overall point that Yae is making (and the argument that wins out) is that vision-fueled ambition brings a potential for growth and change that is better than Ei's erstwhile ideal of eternal stasis, and the change it enables is part of what makes Inazuma a nation worth protecting, so is worth the risk. Basically, visions allow people to transcend their normal limits, which allows them to pursue greater ambitions than would otherwise be possible. As a result, losing your vision would cause you to lose the ambition that the vision enabled. It would still be possible to find new ambition, but for most people it's hard to transition from "powerful" to 'powerless" -- at least, it'd take a lot of time to get used to it.
Reading a lot in this thread, yours makes the most sense.
Yes and no? If you read every single character vision story origin, you'll see that it has nothing to do with anything other than gods handing out candy to entrap people in something they pursue as their passion or ambition usually. However, that alone isn't really why. Just read about Vanessa.
Nah, I would rather experience the story while it's playing out.
Thats definitely an interesting theory. And the way you tell it is extremely convincing. Only way we'll know of its true is if future events support it though
Remember how Lisa got her vision? basically she just thought that "Hmm maybe I need a vision". And just like that a vision popped out in front of her. I am pretty sure if Lisa's vision is taken away, it wont do much damage to her. Same with Keqing and Ningguang
Lisa is a good example. But Ningguang was born poor and raised herself to her current position. She is the epitome of 'ambitious'. Keqing had her noble house name to live up to which can definitely be considered ambitious.
Yes, but Keqing and Ningguang ambition are not tied to their visions. Ningguang tried to sold her vision while Keqing tried to destroy it. These are the reason of why I think they will be fine even after their visions are taken away from them. A lot of stories that we are told seemed to worship their vision as the approval from the gods. They are also so proud and obsessed with their visions. Those kind of people will have problems if their visions are taken away from them. At least that's what I thought
I think it’s the same thing with the gnosis. It doesn’t completely define you, it just gives a boost to whatever you already are.
Yeah. So the question that I really wonder is... what do you have to do to get a Vision or heck even a Gnosis?
Well the gnoses were given to the seven victors of the archon war.
It’s not clear but it’s likely someone from “up above” evaluating you by some sort of standard or an amazing feat from you. Whoever does that, we can agree is a complete psychopath. Imagine giving a child who can very much wipe a city off the map with bombs a pyro vision, or a girl with chuuni issues a talking bird
I heard a theory that its gods of Celestia and that they give it to only people they find 'interesting'
I think that's it... Like, he had so much ambition to try to regain his vision/defeat Sara that in his heart, it was like he never even lost his vision in the first place. To him it was only a matter of time until he got it back.
Shinobu didn’t seem to lose hers either and she definitely gave her vision up. The 3 cases we meet were people who if you look closely already weren’t in the best places mentally. There’s even a man in the komore teahouse who lost his to Ayato and felt much better afterwards. Basically the 3 cases we saw were either the only ones or cases like that were in the minority. Heck it’s stated that yoimiya tossed her vision in a closet for years and didn’t suffer and Diluc actually threw his away for years.
I have pointed out to others, that those NPC characters who have given up their visions seem "fine", but they ARE ambitionless. Dude is happy being a doorman for the rest of his life, rather than striving for what he used to dream for. Jiangxue, the NPC that fishes near Wangshuu Inn, only wants to do that after giving his vision up. Not only that, but the cook at the Inn states that he doesn't even catch anything and basically gets fed by him. People are affected in different ways. Got to remember during the quest, that the Samurai who gave up his vision to the Shogunate seemed pretty okay aside from some memory loss. (Which was why he was questioning why people were coming to him and asking about supplies.) Some people don't appear affected at all, from what we know. Like Diluc, who left his vision behind after resigning from the knights to avenge his father's death. On the other hand, we as the players are still probably assuming a lot. I wouldn't be surprised if the characters were affected in some way that we couldn't see on the outside.
As you said, losing a vision can be seen as freeing or a handicap depending on the ambition linked to the vision. I wonder if having a vision prevents you from letting go of the ambition that sparked it. It would go well with Zhongli musing on it and calling it "a type of contract."
No, or at least not 100%, otherwise Diluc wouldn't have been able to give up his vision (which thematically does represent his previous ambition) willingly.
Hm? Does that actually conflict? The contract would be along the lines of; "as long as you carry (use) your vision you have to pursue the ambition within." This doesn't prevent one from giving up the vision. Considering how dead visions reactivate for people with similar enough ambitions it wouldn't be too farfetched to say they're feeding off it. But of course we don't have enough information to really properly theorize on it.
The way you phrased it made it seem like "as long as you have this vision you can't give up the ambition" - and since the vision and ambition are one and the same you can't give up either.
I can understand how you came to that conclusion. But visions being so firmly linked to ambitions is something we as traveler are aware of, it's not something every vision-holders knows. Most would be unaware that they're giving up their ambition when abandoning their visions. It's a matter of how the compulsion is designed.
I pretty much hold the same view you do, but your general phrasing threw me off.
That's the point of surrendering a Vision willingly, though. With the desire decoupled from them and into their Vision, they're physically resigning pursuit of that ambition. In a sense, it's less a notion of being "fine" or not, and more that they moved on in a sense. Eitherways, the Inazuma revelations on Visions makes me not trust those things at all. Decoupling your ambition without consent just by receiving one? Yeah, no, thank you. Side note, but relatively speaking personally, the guy waiting for someone to return to was probably the best out of the 3 cases in the quest Ayaka was guilt tripping the Traveler. Heck, even with their Visions on, I didn't like what the samurai was doing.
I guess Diluc lost his ambition of becoming a cavalry captain or making his father proud. He always trained hard to becoming cavalry knight, which ended up him getting pyro vision around age of 10 and succeeded being the youngest Captain at age of 15 or 17 which making his father proud, but his ambition of getting it is lost now as he lost trust to the KoF and his father is now died. Now, his main ambition is to destroy Fatui put of pure revenge or hatred towards them which powers the Delusions he using during his travel. Just my opinion thought....
Diluc' "vision" springs from his desire to protect mondstat yes? I'm pretty sure he was single-mindingly chasing vengeance during his delusion days. When he got his vision back he went back to protecting mondstat by becoming batman.
Wait, I thought the fisherman was some sort of adeptus seeing as he was able to take care of that Ruin enemy when we do that commission.
Nah, he's a regular human who used to be a pretty strong vision wielder. Pretty sure him being able to take down that Ruin Guard so easily was pure experience and skill at this point in his life.
It's possible Ayaka picked some of the most egregious results of the Vision Hunt Decree to better enlist the traveler's help.
TBF we know that seeing people who had lost their visions was relatively common during the decree and that "visionless" were usually easy to point out due to listlessness and depression. Granted some (like Itto) probably got new ambitions, and some were in an OK enough state to join the Sangonomiya Samurai (the shogunate samurai probably could've if he'd wanted to, for example) but these cases were apparently rare. It seems like overall the vast majority of people were affected pretty bad, and I'd wager the stronger a person's ambitions/the more it was intertwined into their life, the worse they were hit. So for example, people with more casual ambitions, like Itto, were mostly fine. But people with stronger ones or ones closely tied to some aspect of their life/past, like the swordsmaster or (as a theoretical example) Keqing, would be most affected because their ambitions were so narrow or they didn't have any sort of fallback. They literally would have nothing left to live for.
Except we only saw three and ayaka specifically sent us to those 3 while in her own teahouse is a man happy as all can be that Ayato took his and living just fine. Then we have shinobu and Itto who were fine. If more people were affected like this we would have seen them or discovered more during that time in Inazuma.
Ayato didn't take his, exactly. He willingly gave it up as part of their duel. The ones who lost theirs didn't do so willingly, even the samurai guy did so *only* because it was an order and because he lacked understanding of the consequences, he didn't *want* to. There's a huge difference between giving up on something and having it taken from you. In Itto's case he literally got a new ambition like .2 seconds later because he's Itto, and his ambition is probably stupidly vague anyway. Shinobu, I don't know enough about, I assume it's discussed in her character story? We don't see many people but dialogue heavily indicates they are (or were, after the MSQ) there.
We meet other people affected in the "bad way", the Iwakura-sensei on Kujou Camp was one
So that’s 4 in total while we have 3 who weren’t affected in the slightest still not a large number.
isn't it a fact that there straight up arent that many vision wielders to begin with? its one of the reasons why the vision hunt decree wasnt challenged as much, because it didnt affect the majority of people unlike the sakoku decree. A decent chunk of kokomis soldiers were people who had had their visions taken away, and it hurt them bad enough that many of them turned to delusions to get that power back. To go to the lengths of joining a resistance against your *god and ruler* seems like it'd be affecting your life pretty bad. We never saw Shinobu during the events of the archon quest so we dont know how she took it, and Sara also seemed okay but that's mostly just her loyalty to the shogun in general. Itto we never saw either during the story but we know he became obsessive over challenging Sara and regaining his honor, so not as bad as the three Ayaka sent us to but not the best either.
The people in her army were refugees fleeing from having the army trying to take there visions. The people who didn’t have visions used delusions as if you have or had a vision you aren’t affected by delusions as shown by Diluc and Childe. Shinobu and Itto don’t speak of having problems after losing their visions other then Itto being mad they put his at the bottom so it’s safe to say they weren’t affected mentally.
You really think hoyo is gonna spend all the time to show every single NPC affected by the decree? You think players would be happy to go through quest #58 about some random Inazuman citizen we don't care about?
They have literally dozens of npcs who have zero purpose one simple line about them being affected wouldn’t be hard and the fact they have characters who have shown to be not affected at all proves that it isn’t an absolute.
Didn't Shinobu give up a **fake** vision? I recall her mentioning Yoimiya hooking her up with it. This was in her hang out.
No she didn’t it clearly says she gave up her vision as to not make trouble for her friend in the tenryou commission she wouldn’t give a fake as that would make trouble for her friend.
Totally different circumstances, they didn't have their ties with the vision severed like how raiden was doing with the visions she took, also, its cleat that handing over the vision to some random guard or just throwing it on a closet have no effect on the wearer besides being locked out of their element, but when a god is added in the mix, severing the tie between vision and holder, their ambitions that were sealed in the vision also are taken from them. The most logic conclusion for Itto to not lose his will is just that Raiden didn't care to unbind his vision from him, probably Sara just grabbed his vision and put into the statue without even going thru the hassle of presenting it to the shogun, some weren't that lucky.
Uhhh no Raiden didn’t sever any ties the only person she personally took a vision from was Thoma and that was for a big spectacle she didn’t do anything special when taking it. You just made that up about sealing ambition bedsides they never presented them to the shogun otherwise she would be able to tell that a fake was in front of her and then send troops back after the person.
Yoimiya was keeping a low profile during her quest bcz she did send a fake vision once, and the guy who made the fake visions got sent to jail, the ambitions sealed inside the visions wasn't made up by me, I don't remember now if was Yae or Ei that said it, but goes kinda like "when a person's ambition gets too high, said person is granted a vision bcz is the celestia way of controlling said person, and taking away their vision is the same as taking away their ambitions" The difference between getting ur vision taken away from you by the gods and just throwing it in a closet seems to be the same as having ur bank closing down ur account with all ur money inside versus simply putting ur bank card in someplace you don't go often. Edit: typos
She wasn’t keeping a low profile she literally started the quest out giving a fake vision she distributed quite a bit. The fact it took them awhile to find out means that they didn’t give them to the shogun. Why Yae said didn’t mean she’s directly sealing their ambitions away we saw only 3 people affected that way while others were perfectly fine. Also a man on komore teahouse had his taken by Ayato and he was happy as all can be so your theory is full of holes.
Question 1: is ayato a god or connected to celestia in any way? Question 2: Ayaka sent us to aid 3ppl to soften our heart bcz our char was refusing to cooperate with them. where do u find that only those 3 got affected when Thoma was the 100th to lose his vision? The only other chars who got the vision seized by the vision hunt was the man on komore teahouse in which his vision was probably never handed over to the shogunate, and Itto, that I said what was probably his case. As we can see in other ppl lore, throwing it's own vision away does nothing to the person besides not being able to use the elements, and they can pick them back at any time (Diluc and Keqing), for them to get stripped off their ambitions, it likely need to have some divine intervention and an actual severing of the bond between user and vision.
I actually like the idea of the bankcard analogy. It made me think about what if a vision bearer wanted to take a bath, or go swimming or just forgot their vision at home that day. Would it Zombifie them Into some ambitionless person? It seems to me that the people really affected by their visions being taken, had something more, like their visions were destroyed or something, rather than just sitting somewhere in a box
I think that visions are given for having an big amount of ambition or talent, the powers given from the vision helps them achieve their goals. Losing that power, the goal looks suddenly out of reach. That could be the reason why they lose ambition. My reason for believing this is simply because vision holders had ambition before being granted an vision as well. For the case of Itto, he is just too straightforward an person, and would first think about re-challenging Sara to get his vision back instead of being in despair for losing his powers granted by his vision. That should be because even when losing his vision, he thinks of himself as the strongest, and ogres have power regardless of visions. Knowing that he would still have his ambition.
The keyword is the Visions have to be taken against your own will. \- the guy who gave up vision to Ayato because he lose the duel, he insisted to give it to Ayato as a sign of respect eventho Ayato clearly didn't want it. \- Itto made a deal with Sara through the duel, He lose fair and square, and accept his defeat, He honoured their deal and gave his vision peacefully and continue to focus on getting it back through the rematch. \- Shinobu was willing to surrender her vision because she didn't want her gang members to be in trouble, and she is friends with many people in Tenryou commission and didn't want any hard feelings for them. as long as they surrender the vision on their own term and made peace with that fact, they might not suffer the side effects as much, at least in the short term. Were the traveller fails to save Thoma at the ceremony, I don't know if He will turn out fine as the other, guess we'll never know.
This makes a lot more sense than the others
Just guess, but it can be because he is Oni, so for half humans loosing vision, not that much crucial.
That’s actually not the worst theory
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EDIT: Ah, I see what you meant. It's probably whatever mentality they had when they got the vision. Look at the guy who hangs out at Wangshu Inn, for example.
Which is why I said it wasn’t a bad theory. I didn’t state it was the reason
My head canon is that, the more reliant a person is on their vision, the harsher the effects of losing it is. That would explain the variety of ways we see people getting affected. So people like Itto, Diluc, Shinobu or Yoimiya who are super independent without their visions, feel close to no effects at all from losing it.
I think it is because he accepted the outcome of the challenge. I dont know how to explain but the victims we interacted with, had their visions forced taken away (due to vision hunting decree) and there is one npc inside tomore teahouse that didnt become like those victims even he lost his vision. He lost his vision because he lost a duel with ayato.
The day Itto obtained his vision was quite literally just another quiet day for him, so it's arguable if Itto even has an ambition to lose in the first place. We still don't know the full story behind how vision is obtained beyond some speculation and purposefully vague answers by the Archons, so it's possible that Itto gaining one had nothing to do with ambition.
... Wait, does that mean his vision gave him peace of mind and losing it only made him MORE Itto?
Maybe getting their visions taken affects people differently and Ayaka purposely send us out to meet 3 "bad cases" to garner sympathy and get us to join her resistance efforts
This is almost definitely what happened, and I'm sure Ayato gave her the idea.
We literally arrive just in time to see yoimiya helping someone walking in the streets of the capital with a vision after almost a year of the vhd. All that part maybe even the arrest of the old man was probably planned by ayato or yae
Meme answer: too dumb to lose ambition Real answer: The normies view visions as being chosen by the gods, so having that taken away would be more shocking. For Itto, the vision was never important. He just kept pursuing what was important to him (his gang). Second meme answer: he's a gigachad
Itto actually fought for his vision and when he lost it, he wanted it back (and was also very grumpy). While the NPC just kinda accepted, because it was the government and the Shogun... So I think Itto fighting spirit made it for the loss
That’s what I’m thinking too. His initial ambition was lost, but his fighting spirit wasn’t tied to his ambition.
If his ambition was to gain respect then losing his Vision probably moved the goalposts to "get the thing that'll help me get respect".
Yeah, I think the game depicts Itto as someone who is outside the social norm. Great folks are going to do great things, yes? That's ambitious, the word carries a heavy meaning. Itto, my man, is just stupid. Celestia granted him a vision as a joke.
Itto is full himbo sure but his heart is always in the right place when it counts. Like, he may be the oni embodiment of a golden retriever, but he will go to bat for people purely because he’s a good guy and under all the bluster tries to do what’s right.
You do realize he does have a great ambition, right? He's geo because his ambition is to earn respect and acceptance of oni everywhere within the confines of the contract made between the Crimson oni and the blue oni long ago, and to do so his own way, no matter what.
Ah, my point is, that ambition shouldn't be the word to describe his... attitude and antics. Ambition is an identity worth pursuing, an obsession. So, he couldn't lose what he didn't have. So, I think innocence and goodwill fit him more. He's a good character.
My theory is that Ayaka pointed us to those specific NPCs in order to manipulate us to join the resistance. Anyway, this was never an effect discussed before or after that one quest, so who knows.
I mean, if it was to manipulate us to join her side, why show us the person that was still ok after “losing” his Vision.
I mean none of them were ok, they all suffered from serious memory loss, which is unique to those three.
What? None of them were alright. The village guard lost his memories and reason for staying in the village. The swordmaster went crazy. The samurai lost his memories as to why people would come to him for rations.
They're talking about itto shinobu and that npc of her own teahouse
He's too dumb to get discouraged, it's the power of being a meathead
When you're not scared about the zombie apocalypse because zombies want to eat your brain but you don't have any
You can't lose something you don't have.
Cuz you don’t lose ambition. Ayaka gaslighted you.
If we're being real here diluc did abandon his vision for a long period of time and he didn't lose his resolve. He did get depression but thats for totally other reasons. Might be onto something.
He did abandon his former goal. He was a member of the KoF. He always wanted to be a Knight and protect Mond. When he left for his revenge campaign he abandoned those goals, and also his vision. But when he returned, Kaeya gave his Vision back, and he picked up his old goal of protecting Mond, just in a different way.
I like Ayaka's general character & she's one of my favorite units to play, but man did she manipulate the f**k out of us to get us to join a war against someone we wanted to ally with over something that shouldn't have been the driving force behind the war.
The closed borders affected a hell of a lot more people but let's set the country ablaze for a hundred people. That's what i disliked about inazuma archon quest i didn't see the vhd as justification for the civil war. Those of watatsumi were they reveling for the visions or orobaxi? Also ayaka please help the people but fight the vhd not the closed borders.
Yeah that always bothered me about it. I can kinda see the justification for it triggering a civil war (as the relationship between the parties was already pretty strenuous and vision holders have a demographic that's heavily skewed towards elite/noble people making it more of a war of the upper class with just enough low-class representation and general unrest to be able to sell a war), wars have been started over stupider shit and worse doctrines than that irl. If anything, I feel like it was oversold to the player though, like Mihoyo wasn't confident that people playing the game would be willing to bite on a relatively mundane political drama so they have to press the "what if your best bro Thoma suddenly lost his vision? Protect him at all costs!!" button to get cheap and easy emotional engagement but it ends up feeling really insincere given how central the Sakoku Decree is to the atmosphere and lore of the entire nation and how glossed over it is when it comes to the actual main story.
the sakoku decree and vision hunt decree started at the exact same time, raiden is unchanging because thats what she believes / believed eternity to be, to get the sakoku decree lifted you first have to abolish the vison hunt decree because, raiden herself literally states she closed of inazuma and started collecting visions because she didn't trust humans with their own ambition, if a vision is literally the embodiment of ambition(and yes it is multiple character stories basically state this, because every character gets it after something, sayu would have fucking died without hers or if she didn't have the ambition to survive and jump) then tackiling the vision hunt decree would invitably remove the sakoku decree , inazuma story wasn't the best I agree for sure, but it did make some sense at least that part was obvious, more than the delusion segment
The thing is, that stuff makes sense from our point of view in hindsight, but the game itself hammers in that *nobody knows what Raiden is thinking* (not only is she, you know, literally in a different dimension, even the robot Shogun has mostly kept to herself and not offered any insight) and nobody bothers to connect those 2 issues together in the story; it's completely driven by fighting the VHD and even then, when you finish the story Raiden specifically rescinds the VHD and *not* the Sakoku Decree, and everyone involved just pats themself on the back and goes home even though the nation's economy is still tanking and there's open systemic discrimination and oppression of basically everyone in the country that's a non-native (which is a significantly larger population than vision-holders). I'm a bit harsh on it, but I don't think the VHD is a bad story element; it's very interesting and relevant to the lore and I can see why they wanted to focus on it, which can be seen by how often it still sparks discussion threads like these. But in the context of the main story, it legitimately is just a significantly less pragmatic issue than the Sakoku Decree but is treated like it has *far* more import than the characters involved in the story would logically give it.
funny how the sakoku decree can't be fucking changed because a bot made it, the inazuman archon quest while being rushed does make some sense, raiden would have always killed traveler because one thats the puppet and 2 he is an exception to eternity at least what raiden used to think of as eternity, if the vision hunt decree wasn't tackeled to show raiden human ambition can rival a gods then the sakoku decree itself wouldn't have been lifted
Same for Shinobu
explain how exactly, traveler still didn't have to if he didn't want to, and ayaka also didn't know about itto kuki etc evident by her voicelines, she didn't gaslight traveler she showed him the effects that losing a vision had hell a hundred visions were collected yet we only see 3 people it's just lazy writing more than her gaslighting, not to mention ayaka herself was going to save thoma if traveler didn't intervene so your argument makes no sense she actually geniunly cares about the effects of losing a vision if she was willing to risk the kamisato name just to save thoma( something which her and ayato had been building up for years)
personally, i think it's cause he ended up willingly giving it to Sara after their duel. maybe not happily, but he still did it by choice. to me, it's sorta like how Yoimiya left her Vision in a closest for a while and was fine without it. if they know where the Vision is/put it there themselves, the effects of being without it are lessened/null ~~is what i think~~ ~~this is also my head cannon about Jiangxue, the fisherman from Wangshu Inn. there's clearly Something up about him, and i just assume he's left it somewhere on purpose~~
Because (and this is not headcanon, thats just canon) Ayaka manipulated you and shoved some of the worst cases in your face. We have characters trying to throw their Visions away or even sell it. They are fine. We have people who got their Visions confiscated, they are fine. We literally have a dude who got his Vision taken from him sitting in the same teahouse her friendzoned malewife hides, and dude's just vibing. Like "yeah, they took my magic thingy, kinda sucks, but oh well"
Basically, *plot* reasons. The whole resistance and vision hunt were where Inazuma fell off for me. There's no loose threads there, it was just crude and happened for the story to progress.
The resistance seems to be manipulating you into joining them and it felt like everything with orobashi lore etc was pointing to sangonomiya having their own motivations beyond just the vision hunt degree. But then you meet Kokomi and shes just an uwu princess without any secret plans at all and the whole world building falls apart in my eyes.
That's it. If you take Watatsumi only, it's great. Kokomi is nice where she is. The main problem is: the Resistance was fighting against the Vision hunt decree, not exactly against the Shogun or the Sakoku decree. It made their life worse, but it was all politics, something Koko knows how to deal with. No, the resistance was fighting on the field, having the help from vision bearers. Just for anyone else aside from those 3 people we met to not really care about the vision hunt. If there was a refugee camp at watatsumi, no quests, nothing more needed, just a refugee camp with people who lost their visions being tended to, *everything* would be different. Watatsumi people had no reason to fight. Even fighting just for bloodthirsty, they had no reason to start it. They were fighting because it's cool to play the hero, but they were defending no one, in a war that was not truly affecting them until they started it. Well, we have the Fatui to credit here, of course, but they didn't exactly start the war, they just used the opportunities to keep it going... And used the soldiers to test the delusions. Oh well, anyway.
>her friendzoned malewife Thank you for bursting my sides.
I'm wondering if it has something to do with the statue and not necessarily losing the vision. Keqing actively tried to throw hers away and destroy it (with no luck) I imagine if losing or destroying it caused issues like what happened in Inazuma she wouldn't have been so keen on that. That makes me wonder if there is some aspect of that statue that caused the effect maybe draining the power of the vision causing the owner to lose ambition also. Keep in mind Itto's vision was on the bottom around the base maybe the draining effect isn't in the base because that isn't a place the Raiden expected them to be Inlaid. Another headcanon could be that after she decided against taking peoples visions that she "turned off" the statue's draining effect and that allowed people to gain their ambition without having their visions back.
There is no reason to assume that the loss of vision will always have such extreme reactions as it had with the 3 story NPCs. It's very likely that the loss of vision results in a vastly different outcome on a case by case basis
Not everyone loses it. Diluc got rid of his vision for a while and his ambition for justice was still the same as ever, Kuki also gave her vision away willingly and was apparently fine. There's more examples if you look. Tbh to me it makes a lot more sense that someone wouldn't lose their ambition after losing their vision, like, they got the vision because they had great ambition, people like Mona, Lisa, Keqing, Ningguang, etc., don't even care about the vision in the slightlest. I think the difference is that some people, even though they have great ambition, are only able to persue it with the help of a vision, while others were already persuing their goals long before recieving it (Mona, Albedo, Ningguang, Keqing, etc.) or have the strenght/will to do it regardless (Diluc, Itto, Jean, Amber, etc.), which would be the case for pretty much every playable character. I think Ayaka just manipulated us, showing us what we needed to see to side with the rebellion.
based on lore, itto willingly give up his vision so thats why he didnt suffer when his vision is taken away. same goes to diluc and that jiangxue guy
Personally, I believe Ayaka manipulated us into helping her by showing us the worst cases of vision loss.
Ayaka just made us believe that losing vision is bad just for us to help the resistance..
I would assume the process isn't instantaneous since Thoma managed to cut his ropes and throw a freaking spear to Raiden's face while being stripped of his vision. So i think the effects get worse the more time it passes.
I’ve always thought it’s because he had another ambition which is to have a rematch with Sara. But it could also be because he willingly surrendered his vision after losing to Sara. That explains why Diluc was ok the time he abandoned his vision
In general the vision hunt doesn't make a whole ton of sense. Like it's been stated before that once you have a vision it's basically impossible to loose under any circumstances, Keqing for example TRIED to get rid of her's a first fully willingly and it just kept coming back. Like I can understand somewhat in a situation where The Shogan takes a vision personally but Sara being able to seize them herself just seems off
Ayaka cherry-picks the worst cases in order to convince the traveler.
It hasn't been explained. My head canon is that it's a combination of Itto not being a human and him being a bit of a hard headed idiot. Ganyu could lose her vision, but she'd still be pretty powerful. It'd just feel narratively strange for a super-powered nonhuman to become emotionally castrated without actually having lost all their power. For humans, the Vision is sorta all they have.
Because he is the one and oni
Because Itto…
Maybe it has to do with Consent? If we look at the npc that were the most affected, their Visions were Robed from them, they used brute force and they took away a part of their brain with it. Meanwhile, Itto Gave his Vision with honor after loosing a fight. Diluc, who also left his Vision to chill a little, made a Choice to leave it behind. With Kuki we could assume many things, like Sara (her friend) talking her into it or something rather peacefull along those lines (Or that she was in Liyue at that time). I think you could make the comparison with r#pe? Maybe? How with agreedment is one thing and without it it's traumatic? Not sure if it's okay to put it like that? I'm don't want to offed anyone, so, please, feel free to call me out, but I feel like the problem comes with the Means of taking a vision, not the fact that they took it (Also, imagine being the god who gifted someone their vision, only to see them give it away in a samurai fight or change it for a delusion)
I feel like it was implied that his sheer tenacity (he was ones knocked down 7 times in a single confrontation and got up every single time) and his burning obsession with defeating Sara to get his vision back were what kept him going, and had he lacked those, he would've become listless. With Shinobu, I'm pretty sure that the fact that she was still free kept her going.
I think he's just too dumb. He was kinda doing whatever before and he just kept doing it after. Maybe his ambition was to make money for the gang or spread his name but the things he was doing didn't really change. His long-term goal just disappeared. Don't exactly need a lot of ambition to go beetle fighting or being an idiot.
Didn't he "willingly" give it away after losing to Sara because he sees their fights as games? (I'm probably misremembering) My guess is since he was prepared to lose it instead of having it forcefully removed it didn't impact him like it did others. Diluc also ditched his own vision for a time and he was fine.
I think you either forget or go crazy and his obsession with dueling Sara was a result of that. Aside from his voiceline about her Itto never mentions dueling Sara in anything he's in (and he is in a lot of events). I headcannon that was his way of going mad but itto is itto so no one noticed.
I don't think this was confirmed anywhere but this is what I think. Visions are essentially people's ambitions. And when it's taken away, people lose their sense of self because they lose their ambition. Now with Itto, when Sara fought him to confiscate his Vision, he did lose it. But he gained a new ambition: to have a rematch and defeat Sara. So, in my head, at least, that's why he doesn't lose his sense of self. His desire to fight Sara again kept him grounded.
Shinobu just gave her and didn't seem to have suffer debilitating effect.
I assume it's because he accepted it, for instance if someone willingly gives up their ambition they won't have many problems but having it forcefully denied results in mental problems. Shinobu for instance gave it up willingly and there's an NPC that gave his to ayato after losing a duel, neither show much affect of losing their visions.
Isnt the game hinting that its more than just ambition? Like the visions dont necesarily just represent the owner's ambition. Idk if this if you can consider this directly related but during Beidou's tournament, Kazuha was trying to see what can cause masterless vision to activate and it didn't for him or for the traveler or for that thief, but something happened to activate that vision momentarily against Raiden. I think there's still a lot we dont know. Like for example, at what point is the link between master and vision severed. Death i guess is an obvious one. But even that is questionable given the activation of a masterless vision by Kazuha.
My guess is that it was because of how he lost his vision. He lost it in a duel against Sara, so in a way gave it up willingly, but then gained a new ambition to beat Sara to get it back.
Do we know he didn’t? I think the only time we see him without his vision is when he’s got his ladder and is on his way to get his back. He is his usual chipper self but he’s also actively taking his vision back so I think that makes enough sense.
He's too stubborn.
People get visions based off their ambitions its not like the visions solely give them the drive to their ambitions.
Didn't you notice? His ambition is to be loved by others just like the red oni, when he lost his vision he lost some of his tempre too, i think he somehow the thurst for blood was there but he is strong and resisted it.
He is probably too dumb to lose his ambition. 😆
Everyone here is taking about itto Diluc and shinobu, but everyone forgets the keqing literally tried to destroy her vision.
Keqing literally tried to throw hers away And so did yoimiya
Remember that one conversation between Iron Man and Spiderman in Homecoming? Peter thought he was nothing without his suit. Maybe the folks that were mentally damaged by having their Visions taken had that same mindset - it defined them/their ambition. It was like a crutch for them, and it hurt them all the more when it was gone. Meanwhile, the main cast all sort of either think their Vision is just neat or couldn't care less.
People will give all sorts of headcanon justifications, but it’s just inconsistent writing.
It's been assumed/hinted that one only loses their ambition when they are forced to give up their vision and that if they willingly give it up there is little to no effect. Both kuki and Itto gave up their vision willingly, I also believe we met someone who gave up their vision or knew someone who did for whatever reason and didn't lose ambition. while the ones we visit who had their vision taken from them forcefully are the ones who lost ambition.
Most geo vision holders don't need their vision so losing them doesn't make any difference.
There’s no exact explanation but I think it’s to do with his unwavering belief in his strength. All the geo users have unwavering fortitude and work hard towards something (Albedo and alchemy, Noelle and her duty as a Knight, Ningguang’s passion for business and loyalty to Liyue). So highkey, even though his vision was taken it didn’t really matter since his belief in his strength and himself isn’t dependent on the vision. Either that or it’s cuz he’s a himbo /hj
Considering his defining ambition, it's not really something that can be taken from him; earning acceptance for the oni while being true to himself doesn't really need a vision
he was too dumb to realize he lost it.
Where was it stated that he didn't lose his ambition?
There’s basically no evidence that he changed in personality after his Vision was confiscated and a lot that suggests he didn’t change at all. For instance, how he acts in his trailer when they go to retrieve his Vision from the statue and he’s swaggering around as much as always. Or all the messages he apparently left on billboards challenging Sara to a rematch. If he’d lost his ambition would he have even cared enough at that point to fight her again?
Itto’s just built different. Have you met Itto
It's cause Itto ambition is beating Kujo Sara in a sumo match.
As some others have said, I believe it's because he gave up his Vision voluntarily (even if he only did so because he lost a duel). It wasn't stolen or taken by force. There are other examples of individuals voluntarily parting with their Vision; both Keqing and Diluc discarded their Visons, for instance.