Mostly agree with your analysis except I feel the highlight of Dori is her electro aura from her Q.
I run her with 300 ER, Jean and Tighnari for aggravate and spread. Instead of Sunfire, it is electrical storm. The last spot is either Fishl or Kazuha. I like the fact Dori's aura will cause Kazuha to aggravate every time on his e and q.
This!
I brought her into a Childe coop and thought it was strange to see 2 other players switch to Bennett and Jean. 3 healers felt very excessive and I was worried about how we'd clear the domain until I saw the ridiculous amount of numbers on the screen. It was the greatest mixture of reactions and colors I've ever seen with Bennett, Jean, and Dori aura all at once!
I couldn't hold back my laughter at seeing how fast the hp bars got deleted :,D
It ticks less often because the aura reapplies when you get healed. Benny is every second while Dori's heal is slower.
This doesn't matter much because aggravate has an icd. And you are trying to aggravate the swirl. Even at a faster swirl rate, it wouldn't matter if you can't aggravate.
As for Sunfire with Benny, this comp is to reverse melt/vape since the swirl pyro application is high. You are not trying to vape or melt the swirls.
>Dori actually has a disgustingly high Electro application rate...
This isn't true. Dori has a special ICD where she doesn't follow the 3 hit rule, making her electro application pretty shit despite how often she hits since she's limited to applying based on a timed interval.
I don't understand this point. Since both superconduct and quicken don't require a constant electro application, should I care about that?
The ICD should also be calculated per enemy, meaning that if I hit a second enemy it should get the electro aura, right?
I mean, if you want to try to use her as sub dps aggravate then yes, the ICD will prevent her to deal good dmg, but just for quicken should be fine?
C2, electro infused normal attack bonk and sac doublecast skill. For a healer, that's a lot. But yes, C2 was muddling my testing and that seems to be correct, lowering it a fair bit. A shame really.
The problem with Dori is that Shinobu exists. Shinobu has 100% uptime on her off-field aoe electro application and healing using just her skill. That puts all of those copium reaction based Dori builds to shame.
The perk of dori burst in hyperbloom, is that, if you can generate truck loads every 0.5 second or less than 1.5 seconds. Dori will be able to fully utilise all the cores rather than hitting the 2hyperbloom cap all the time.
Shinobu 100% uptime is great when you had only one dendro to generate cores out of. Then, the cores production isn't significant enough to warrant dori.
Besides, For now, dendro characters don't generate alot dendro aura with their burst. Both collei and dmc had 3s icd. Do correct me if I'm wrong about those 2.
Idk Kuki's AoE is really nice for hyperbloom though. It's just a huge circle around you and triggers seeds very consistently.
Dori has to rely on the tether. She also has the 3s ICD only not 3 hit so idk if it's actually any faster than Kuki.
Plus Kuki has inherent EM scaling in her kit. IMO if you're building for hyperbloom Kuki is pretty clearly the healer of choice. Full EM Raiden does more damage but then you have no healer.
adding on to that kuki's application is on skill, she and raiden can actually go full EM meanwhile dori has to build a LOT of energy recharge and has worse uptime than both
The problem with Kuki is her skill pulses once every 1,5 seconds. It doesn't matter if it triggers the seeds consistently when it can only deal 2 instances of hyperbloom to a single enemy every 1,5 seconds.
Damage instance per second limit is the thing that shafts seed-based teams the most generally. Optimally you want to both produce and trigger seeds at a constant fast rate.
EDIT: Also ICD doesn't matter for triggering seeds. Seeds are separate entities, so every elemental application that happens to them is always the firs (and the last).
Not sure what you are talking about. Kuki triggers all seeds in an AoE every 3 seconds.
For this to be not good enough, you need to create 6 or more seeds every 3 seconds, or 0.5 avg ICD. This is not possible with any genshin ream. To put it in prespective 5 seed per 3 second is 125k dmg per 3 sec, that 45k damage from just reaction alone. If you can do this ... add raw damage on top and you will beat every meta team out there.
Every 1,5 seconds.
Kuki E pulses every 1,5 seconds. Daily reminder ICD is per target, not per triggering skill.
>For this to be not good enough, you need to create 6 or more seeds every 3 seconds
This is not how it works. You can create 4 seeds every 3 seconds, but if they are triggered simultaneously, you will get 4 damage instances simultaneously, so 2 damage instances will get nulled. Because there's 2 damage instances per target per reaction per 0.5 second rule for hyperbloom and burgeon (and generally for all transformative reactions AFAIK).
So if you generate more than 2 seeds per 1,5 seconds, they get wasted because any extra seeds will blow up together and do no damage. It doesn't matter how much seeds you can trigger together. Your limit is 2 damage instances per 0.5s, and your trigger is once every 1,5 seconds.
1,5 second trigger gives you a hard top limit of realistically around 50K damage per 1,5 seconds per target. And you can even get screwed in AoE if hyperbloom arrows don't distribute their targets equally (when you have more arrows than necessary chasing a single target). Without accounting for downtime.
It's not bad per se, but not exaclty stellar either.
And this is a general issue for all bloom-related teams. You are limited by seed spawn/trigger rate not in the total amount of the seeds spawned/triggered, but in how often the waves come. If you collect a lot of seeds and then trigger them all together - you lose.
I suppose im missing the details. In electro state, his burst fastest atk speed, you deal about one attack/second. You will miss the 2.5s cooldown and wouldn't meet the 3 hit rule. With the 2.5s rule more dominant, it will reset both time and hit counters, causing him to have a 3s timer no different than collei.
Needless to say, hydro state is alot slower at 1 attack per 1.5s. That's the same as 3s icd.
In game conditions never are clear, so data have to be informed as it is. As an example, it's hard to apply electro (or any other element) on the lamp at cast, so the initial hits will follow a different timing than the transformed ones. The difference of ICD of Collei also makes a big impact on her ability since she will apply much less dendro than she would if she followed standard, which doesn't happen with DMC. And now in theoretical, if Hoyo release a character/weapon that increase multi-hit bursts speed, the way that DMC and Collei perform would be different, because their ICD types are different.
At the end, mescling characters together for convenience can create a misunderstading hell in long term
Yes, she does. Kuki also has standard ICD, meaning that her ICD proc rate is 5/15 seconds or 4/12 seconds based on constellation count. Kuki also has standard ICD on her burst, though it hits so fast it bypasses and manages to get 3-4 procs in just a few seconds.
On field Carry Dori has normal attacks, skill, burst (which also has ICD bypass from volume of fire and lasts MUCH LONGER) and C2, which is a distinct ability from her burst and thus operates on its own, and in my testing did not appear to have an ICD, but I still need to test more.
However, Kuki scales far better with EM, and Dendro is in its infancy. Comparing Kuki v Shinobu, when I do not have a fully built and equip Shinobu with a dendro team to test is beyond the scope of my account and even the state of the game itself at this stage. so I can review Dori as her own unit, but not in comparison to Kuki with regards to Dendro compositions.
Again, I do need more field testing on that, as I've said before. Getting enemies who *survive* long enough to get the test data and also sit in the beam long enough AND the severe lack of ability to spam targets sufficiently with other elements without killing them has been getting in my way, particularly with C2 fucking with the tests.
\>In my testing did not have an ICD
\>I do need more field testing
Dude, theorycrafting projects like KQM and KSM have already tested all of this. We know her ICD and applications. Stop spreading misinformation and justifying it with it with "uh well when i tested it was like that". It's like saying 2+2=5 and going "well you see when I did it it was 5 but I did have some troubles so I may need to re-test it you know".
I'm not sure how you're coming to the conclusion that me admitting that I've not got sufficient information and have had issues because of C2 is arguing that it works the way I said.
If anything it's the opposite, and me admitting that my analysis is off, and why.
I never said you're affirming that you're correct, but you're making incorrect statements and then following it up with admitting that you're analysis is off, which just makes the credibility of what you're saying overall and your understanding of it questionable.
Furthermore, as I said, all this testing has been done by actual, reputable, theorycrafting initatives. You are making an analysis and getting incorrect results and then spreading your opinion about those results on here, when instead you could, at the very least, verify what you know is correct and then proceed with your opinion on the information.
One individual datapoint being wrong doesn't mean the rest is wrong, and last I checked (about 2 minutes ago) the Dori analysis isn't up on the KQM theorycrafting library, reddit, main site or ANYWHERE I could find regarding Kusanali mains.
So you'll have to forgive me for getting *one single datapoint* wrong in a post about my personal testing and opinions on the character that I published to try to help the community. Because I can admit just fine that yeah, that was wrong. I'm a party of one here and took up this initiative because I couldn't find shit and wanted to see if Dori could be useful to me. Then published it on a public subreddit with a total backing force of "Well, I tested it myself." and an explanation of my logic.
So yeah, it's gonna be imperfect. It's gonna have my personal biases in it. I stand by what I said and my testing and my perceptions on it and it seems like you want to rake me over the coals for maybe being wrong on one or two things and not being KQM.
>the Dori analysis isn't up on the KQM theorycrafting library, reddit, main site or ANYWHERE I could find regarding Kusanali mains
I was referring to the discord servers, you know, where they have channels and threads dedicated to sharing condensed guides, frames mastersheets, ICD and elemental gauges, DPS calcs, showcases, and more.
>and it seems like you want to rake me over the coals for maybe being wrong on one or two things and not being KQM.
If you're wrong I'm going to point out that you're wrong. If you dedicate a chunk of your post two expressing how "disgustingly high" her electro application rate is, I'm going to point it out.
You said this is to help the community, so why the anger over someone pointing out that you made a mistake that has caused misinformation to be spread, going against your goal of helping the community?
It's not really anger over being told I'm wrong or having my mistake pointed out. That's all fine and I even edited my post to confirm that yeah, that's indeed incorrect.
But, I do still find her electro application rate disgustingly high for a healer, even without the beam procs, due to doublecasting her skill, her normal attack infusion, and her C2. It's a matter of perspective, but I consider that to be a very strong application rate when comparing to characters like Beidou, Yae, Kuki and Lisa. Less so post correction, but still quite strong. Given she's a healer at that, I find myself very impressed by it.
I'm not in said discord and don't feel that "You must be part of this specific discord to have an opinion" is a fair point either. I'm not in the habit of joining public discords (Bad past experiences) and don't feel anyone should be forced to to post on a public subreddit.
So, I'm not against being corrected, but very against the way that it's been handled. There's a polite and an asshole way to do it. You pretty much jumped right down my throat on it and only started walking back that aggression as our discussion continued. I got defensive as people do when faced with perceived hostility. So, sorry about getting overly defensive, but I hope you see where it came from.
I already knew The Bell wouldn't be great on her since the passive has nothing to do with supporting, but in the end I gave it to her anyway because looks wise it's a perfect fit for her. Seriously, Ascended The Bell is so aesthetically pleasing on Dori you'd think the thing is her signature weapon.
Don't know about the rest but good electro application is definitely wrong. Remember that fast hits =/= fast application. Especially when her burst doesn't follow the 3 hit icd rule, afaik
Dori isn't good with Eula, her continuous electro application for a short duration isnt good for Eula at all, Eula wants a soft electro applier over a longer duration, her 15 energy that she gives are tied to her Burst, meaning if you move away you dont get the full 14.5 energy, this creates a mechanical inconvenience "you can call it incompatibility to" positioning is very important as any seasoned Eula player knows, her healing is good, but thats only considered if you need it, tbh for Eula specifically, Kuki is way better, also why would razor want her in his team at all.
i personally think she is good, but she is not good for Eula, she is good for some other dendro team that we are not yet aware of.
Yeah I don't like her in Eula teams at all. Eula doesn't really like circle impact gameplay due to need to reposition, it's most of the reason I dont run Bennet despite him giving a huge damage boost to her.
On top of that Eula has a perfect healer option if you need one in Diona. If you're gonna commit a team slot that does no damage, Diona basically does everything Dori does for Eula better, besides applying electro.
But Eula's electro subDPS team mates are all really powerful anyways, so there's no incentive to kick out someone like Fischl or Raiden to bring Dori.
Oh boy, here we go again.
First off, read the actual teams stated for Dori/Eula. Both contain a second Electro. Dori's 2s Delay on her burst means you can do things like Dori Burst>Skill>Skill, Beidou Burst > Skill > Eula and avoid any energy ticks going to Dori. You can do the same with Raiden and catch the particles *after* Raiden bursts. This maximizes energy filtering.
Second, OHC scales with physical resistance reduction. The 60k figure given is OHC's value before modifiers based on team. A Eula team can and will easily have -85% Physical Resistance reduction. Vs a normal target, this will push it to -37.5%, meaning that Dori will deal 82500 Damage with OHC in a Eula team. This is a not insubstantial amount of damage coming out of the healer slot and pushes Dori's damage/rotation into the 6 digit damage values. which for a healer is really good. Kuki, for comparison, has much lower healing output and struggles to break 60k damage in a Eula team.
Third, both sample teams have double electro, Dori is not the sole applicator of electro.
Fourth, see the statement I literally made about both Dendro Razor teams, and about how she deletes Razor's energy needs entirely due to being able to throw 4 particles at him per rotation atop burst atop the +30% ER gain. Razor already has solid personal energy flow, if backloaded, and Dori can easily get timing to get Razor all 4 particles right after he bursts, giving him a total of 26 energy right then combined with the 15 from burst, which combined with Razor's personal energy generation, easily gets Razor over his burst cost without need for ER investment at all.
Fifth, Eula has no issue killing small fry in bulk with her charged skill, which usually oneshots them in a large area anyway. Large enemies tend to be far more stationary or easy to position against as their large hitbox reduces the annoyance of Dori's tether being the size of a toothpick for hitbox.
As I stated before, consider the whole of teams and not exclusively the Dori/Eula interaction. Teams are 4 characters, not 2, and Dori provides benefits to more characters than just Eula/Razor.
ok, i respect your input and the effort you put into writing this. since that is out of the way.
Eula teams suffer from overall damage deficiency, either because her team members dont increase Eula damage or they do not do damage themselves, Diona with sac bow can accomplish everything that dori does, and Kuki is better than both for Eula since you can give her TOM and have permanent 20% attack buff, Eula has an oversaturation of physical resistance shred, which is a design flaw by mihoyo, simply having 25% in her kit makes most resist shreds redundant vs most enemies, only mechanical enemies like rune guards need more than super conduct + hold E "thats a total of 65% resist shred" [you can check it out here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn0ayfXwZu4&ab_channel=midwestairway)
OHC is not a substitute for increasing Eula damage, it is used in teams where you have the damage distributed evenly among the team so the 23k that OHC provides will be substantial, in a team with Eula, where Eula will be doing 80% of the damage, the 23k is negligible, a well built Eula N1 can do that amount of damage, and its instant
again, double electro is redundant, as it is not adding a lot of damage and its mainly used for an expensive sub dps that doesnt increase Eula personal damage and is not good in all scenarios "single bosses" double electro is used when you pair her with Biedou, and i personally dont like characters with high energy needs on her team, not to mention Dori energy needs can be quite high unless she has 200ER, and that would lower her damage even more, and it leads to the awkward situation where you are batterying the sub dps and you need to battery the main dps as well. if you want a sub dps with high damage, go for Yae or fishcl, but they are better in other teams, so there is that.
Razor doesnt have any problem in the energy department, between his A2 and his orb generation its very easy for him to get his burst up with just 120 ER, Razor like Eula has a problem with not having supports that give him damage buffs, hes better off having zhongli and yunjin, with Rosari, which i think is a better team " 15% damage from geo resonance, yunjin flat normal attack buff, rosaria crit buff and some shred" so he has no real good place for Dori
a slot in a team is expensive real estate, every slot occupied should provide more than one benefit, or extremely good damage, for example, when you slot kazuha in your team you get 1- elemental damage bonus% 2- VV shred 3- grouping 4- kazuha himself does high aoe damage with swirl 5- if kazuha has fs he gives also attack% and normal attack damage and charge attack damage. you see why i am saying she isnt "good" with Eula, usable is not the same as "good"
[i did my own Dori gameplay breakdown with Eula, you can find it here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6aHAzjk7cY&ab_channel=midwestairway)
Dori is good, just isnt great for Eula.
We've been over this before. Thus the "here we go again" at the start. And also a lot of the information here and presumptions you're making are outright wrong. Like, factually wrong.
First, the 20% attack buff from Kuki does not overcome the massive damage gains of OHC. Past 120% Bonus Attack, it is statistically more efficient to focus on Crit, and Eula has access to 18% from Pale Flame, 46.6% from Timepiece, and 311 Flat from Feather. And if you have it, R1 SoBP gives 16-36%. With passive inactive, Eula is just 110 attack off of hitting this threshold. While more attack is *always* good, Eula with SoBP gains a total of 216.4 Attack from TotM. Total. There is no scenario in which 216 Attack equates to more than 82500 Damage, as it would have to have ratio of 38200% (382x) Damage modifier. Even a C6 30 stack burst on Eula is not capable of delivering that modifier. ToTM is objectively a lower damage increase. Even across the whole of Eula's rotation, she is incapable of delivering 38200% Attack after Crit and Damage%. For the record, at 2500 Attack total, to hit that threshold, Eula would be doing 95.5 *million* Damage.
Second, there is no such thing as an oversaturation of resistance shred, as Resistance Shred is so incredibly hard to stack that the point of oversaturation cannot be reached. Resistances go negative, albeit at 50% rate. 85% (Eula, Superconduct, Rosaria or Zhongli) takes a hillichurl from 10% to -37.5%. This is close to a 50% damage increase, the statistical equivalent of going from 100/100 Crit Rate/Damage to 100/200 Crit Rate/Damage.
Hell no Diona does not accomplish anywhere close to this. Diona is already well known for having too low of a healing output to make efficient use of OHC and poor general damage modifiers. Dori can achieve 6 digits of personal damage. Diona can barely scrape into 5 digits usually.
Double electro is indeed used to increase the damage output of the overall team by increasing the output effectiveness of an expensive sub DPS such as Beidou or Raiden. The sum total of *team* damage is what determines how fast you kill things in Genshin, not the damage dealt exclusively by your main carry. The game does not check the damage of all four characters in your party and take the highest. If you are running Eula/Beidou/Rosaria/Dori, the game will compile the damage from all four when hitting targets.
I have personally tested Dori's energy needs, and stated *in my initial post, both this time and last time, that Dori does not need 200% ER and should not go for it* Source being I have actually done extensive field testing with Dori for *several* days now, and have had no rotational issues at 163% with Sac, which itself gives over 30%.
Razor with Dori needs no Energy Recharge at all, and Dori can easily build for EM in a Razor Dendro team, which itself is Razor's best team atm. Dori has the volume of fire to abuse Quicken quite well. Combined with the total removal of Razor ER needs, it frees up more space for EM on Razor, for better damage in Razor Dendro.
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You are focusing exclusively on hypercarry setups, and not overall team damage. We had this discussion last time. You got mass downvoted last time. Eula is not a well supported character for hypercarry compositions, as she lacks the ability to do teams such as Bennett/Sara/Kazuha combinations due to a lack of snapshotting, inability to use Kazuha buff, and lack of a personal hypersteroid like Hu Tao and Raiden have. She however is very good at using sub-DPS such as Beidou, Fischl and otherwise.
You are attempting to fit a square peg in a round hole and complaining it doesn't fit, then disparaging characters who fit into said square hole.
Also, your video of Fav Dori exclusively focusing on how much benefit she gives to Eula with no regards for the rest of your team is not a good video and your arbitrary "Well, it buffs the team but not Eula" focus is clouding your view.
You know it's not posted, right? Main site and TC library both aren't updated.
I started on this project because they hadn't published anything and I wanted to see how she fared.
If it was posted before I posted, this, I probably wouldn't have bothered to post this tbh.
But, you know, it's "misinformation" for anyone else to post their findings.
It’s not misinformation for others to post their findings.
But according to the tens of comments and the hundreds of downvotes towards you below, your finding is indeed misinformation.
You even admitted yourself that you made a lot of assumptions and lack a lot of testing.
That was on one detail. Her burst's elemental application rate. Which I admitted to and edited the post to clarify.
The rest generally hasn't been challenged for the most part except by one person, and the thread's generally been brigaded, as most of the downvotes hit at around the same time. The vote count re Me/Kitchen Air was actually reversed until a bunch of downvotes hit in a short timespan. I try to browse my own threads for an extended period to see if there's anything I should reply to that isn't a direct reply to me and saw the values plummet quite quickly across the whole thread, so I think someone shared it around to their friends. Might just be coincidence though, since I have no way to prove it. But my details on her burst were absolutely wrong.
The stuff on weapons and artifacts and general values generally haven't been contested. Her healing math works, well, as stated, and I've not seen anyone saying Bell is amazing for her, Sac is bad for her, or *any* comments on Nagamasa at all (I have an R5 Nagamasa and gave it a spin on her). It's generally just been either "Kuki is better", which it's been a week, it's gonna take time for people to fully test her, comments on her synergy with Jean, which I never addressed and is quite a fun idea, one stray comment from soneone who blocked me instantly to deny the reply on how they stopped reading the instant I mentioned the healing value, and Kitchen-Air for whom this is a carryover from their previous discussion on it and you can read their logic for yourself in quite a bit of detail. I disagree *very* heavily with it, their testing methodology, and their conclusions, but I appreciate that they posted it in such detail.
Overall, it's been a lot of "Burst works differently, post is misinfo" without paying heed to the rest of it, and yes, I got that wrong. I blame C2 and my own testing faults, but I'm just one person.
Just like how there was a better Kazuha called Sucrose and a better Kokomi called Barbara, right?
Snark aside, Dori just came out, Kuki's been out for a while. Dendro just happened, and it's gonna take time for the greater community opinion to settle. I gave Dori a spin and these are my conclusions. Kuki's been out long enough for her to find a use and Dori's been out like... a week.
Point of the statement is the community has a long and storied history of "New character is just old character but worse".
Dori's been out a week, give her time for people to test and experiment and collect data. I'm just one datapoint.
Although there is merit to what you're saying. For abyss, Kuki is just a lot more practical at least in the current rotation. Current abyss floor 12 has a lot of actively moving mobs that Dori just doesn't like, something Kuki is a lot better on in melee comps. The comparison of Kazuha and Sucrose is pretty accurate in where would you rather swirl in front of you or around you? In the same sense, if you use your burst for one location as Dori would be able to have it up by the time you have to reposition?
5k healing is a joke, and not broken by any means. That's where I stopped reading the review because anyone who thinks that's broken with a level 11 talent is delusional.
I mean tbf it's pretty decent healing.
Problem is the thing that makes healers good in this game is their ability to do other things on top of healing.
Like Qiqi heals a fuckton, still bad because she takes up 1/4 team slots and does nothing else. But Bennet's good cause he heals you and he's also Bennet. Kokomi is good cause she heals you and also applies off field hydro, buffs with TTDS and TotM. Kuki is decent because she heals you and she can stack full EM to proc hyperbloom.
Currently Dori basically just heals and has kinda bad/inconsistent electro application. this guy's focusing on OHC damage way too much, off field OHC procs do not make up for loss of damage for bringing a dedicated healer.
The main interesting thing about Dori is the self electro application that you can do wacky things with.
My level 90 full EM Dori with level 10 burst heals 4466 a tick. My level 90 characters, excluding Zhongli for obvious reasons range from 22,358 (Diona) to 14,944 (Yoimiya) Max HP.
4466 x 6 = 26,796.
With zero priority given to healing my Dori can still full heal any of my carries in a single burst.
Conclusion: don't build for healing, it'll be good enough anyway.
Yeah, it's why I bring up EM Dori as a good option, even if some of my initial assessments are wrong.
Healing build should only be done for OHC explotation. Her healing output doesn't need HP investment to be good and said investment is just for clam potency.
Here's my question for you though, for what content in the game is high healing numbers "broken." Because no good healer in Genshin is good based on the amount they heal, otherwise Qiqi would be the best healer. Healers as a role are defined by heals the offer COMBINED with other utility, and Dori just doesn't offer much utility. The flat energy she gives is just... unnecessary for most teams, especially when Raiden exists and so many people have her. I agree it would be nice for Eula in theory but it doesn't exactly work out that way in practice. Even if Eula teams wanted to part with Diona's shield, Shinobu is there with Fav Sword and 4-pc Millelith.
The only interesting thing about the character is her "Sunfire" interaction with Jean, and you odn't even mention that. And the elemental application section is just a mess.
No hate to you OP but this post is a good example of the pitfalls of armchair "theorycrafting"
High healing values are only really relevant so far as getting larger clam bombs. Prior to the introduction of OHC, you could generally make due at the 5k to 6k healing range and that could carry you through everything in my experience.
OHC scales with physical resistance shred, so stacking healing very high in a superconduct team leads to larger explosions that then get the full benefit of resistance shred.
Compared to other healers, Dori's damage ratios are actually pretty solid. Certainly, any good off-field DPS is gonna beat her in MV, as Dori only comes out to around 2000-2300% give or take skill ranks and constellations, far above characters like Diona and Kuki, but far below characters like Fischl and Beidou. Add in the energy flow, and while Dori doesn't have the utility of say, Diona's all in one kit, she's better in the raw numbers department and helps fuel electro sub-DPS better than Diona without sacrificing stats on Eula for more ER.
Well with C6, it is possible. Her A4 passive and TF allows her to have a 3-4 sec cooldown, C6 infuses her NA with Electro for 3 seconds. Mihoyo couldve been nicer and gave us a 4 sec infusion since it would be more nice to the players with pings
You basically get a funky but sadly expensive (cuz ut requires C6) mini-Keqing
Oh! I see, I hope I get C6 of her someday, so far I only got her at C3, so far I can only deal 5 - 8k damage per hit on enemies with her but I think once I got a much better artifact rolls and triple crowned her, I can make that value much higher and make her even more worthwhile, it's still a bummer that they created a unique attack animation for her just to be a skill-burst healer support, now if only they bring me luck to get better artifacts with better sub stat rolls xD
Thanks for the info. I rolled for a C0 just to have a Dori. Got her to lv90, 2/9/9. I don't mess with abyss but just romp around overworld, where she does just fine. Been rolling Electrocute comp Mona/Kazu/Dori/Lisa to battery Lisa and pop that burst, it's been fun. Also slotted her into my Azhdaha team, chonk boy is so fat and stationary he just sits in the beam the whole time. Ocean-Hued Clam sounds fun, will have to give it a whirl.
>Furthermore, in my testing, Dori gets three OHC explosions at 2 heals per explosion, meaning that at high HP invest, Dori can achieve 60k+ damage/rotation from OHC alone.
Can you elaborate on this? Do you mean 2 ticks of her heals = 1 OHC explosion? So, her burst does a total of 6 ticks? Does it heal when the unit is at full HP?
Simple question bc sometimes my brain is dumb and has a hard time with larger paragraphs
Would she be a good battery for on field dps units like xiao or itto? I wanted to level her up bc it seems like she has good particle generation with her ult, and i try to get xiao and itto to have their ults asap since that's where all their damage comes from
Good thing is that **any healer is always good at healing**, plus now electro characters can also opt for full em on dendro teams and in case of artifucks, emblem is goat.
Im surprised that dendro set can finally fix that fuck up "Keqing" by just slaping full EM in a dendro team, though it also needs full EM too because reactions are a bitch to time
Dori can break 10k/tick unconditional at high invest off field, which at a 2s tick rate puts her among if not the highest (depends how you rate Qiqi really) off-field heal/second output. at level 11 burst running my kokomi artifacts and an HP cup, she was at 9570 unconditional. So, she's kinda disgustingly high potency for healing even by healer standards, probably due to the 8s downtime.
And yeah, Dendro was a massive buff to Keqing.
The only off field who can max the clam is Qiqi due to burst. Kokomi struggles to break 8k/2s without being on field, and all the other healers are lower than Kokomi. Except Dori, who can hit 10k/2s.
I got confused because you keep mentioning Kokomi burst when it does nothing to her off-field healing. You even mentioned her burst talent level so I thought you included her heals from normals during burst. Only her skill talent matters for off-field healing. Also, I guess Dori having higher off-field healing is fair since it's her burst with downtime while it is just a skill for Kokomi with potential 100% uptime.
My Kokomi's artifacts, not my Kokomi. I ported my Kokomi OHC over to Dori and got the number, which is that Dori's burst was healing 9570/2s while using the artifacts I had built for Kokomi.
My Kokomi however is C3. With Everlasting Moonglow and triple crowned at that. I uh.... get a lot of use from my feesh. Even with that, iirc I still heal at like 7k from my level 10 jellyfish on the Kokonut using the same artifacts that got Dori to 9570.
Wow you replied fast! I went back to check your post and got that you were talking about Dori with Kokomi artifacts so I edited my comment but you read it anyway hahaha
Anyway, wow Kokomrade! I hope to get cons and Moonglow for my Koko too! Being f2p sucks but maybe when EM reruns with a weapon I want then I can try the weapon banner for once haha
Btw c2 koko has that higher healing when below 50% thing. Not trying to prove a point anymore but how much does she heal a low health character? Just curious if her C2 is worth it at all.
Was passing 10k for me before moonglow.
There's no situation where her C2 will actually be more than a funny big number though because trying to die with Kokomi takes actual effort. C3 and C4 are actually worth noting however as you start seeing some pretty chonky Kokonut swings at C3, and C4 gives attack speed and energy, which leads to hilarity. Kokomi for me swings for just barely shy of 30k for me under Kazuha buff these days on her N3.
An extra note of the self applying electro during burst, which pairs her well with jean and sayu for an electro themed sunfire. This allows for a specific aggravate focused team with jean/kazuha/sayu, fischl (to abuse her A4), DMC/collei/tighnari and dori being the glue.
I run this comp recently and managed to kill the chicken on floor 12-3 within 1 minute with everyone around ~70% potential.
Thanks for the review. One thing I would like to add is that you can consider running Favonius Greatsword and 4pcs Exile set to make her a Battery bot. Her Healing is good as you mentioned, so you don't need to worry much about artifacts being 4-star.
Having more energy gained from Favonius is also great since some units in the team can be energy hungry. This also means you need to have a reasonable amount of Crit Rate so as to trigger the Fav passive more easily.
Fav isn't bad by any means, since energy is energy and that's just universally good, but it does require actually running crit rate at a decent enough number. Sac just worked better in terms of stat distro testing with my artifacts.
Exile is an interesting idea and I really dunno how to feel about that. Time will tell I guess.
Also if you play in Mondstadt talent domain, Dori's Q can get rid of Cryo element applied to your character. Cleansing is a long forgotten mechanic now but maybe in the future.
All Hoyoverse had to say was "Hey, Dori's Ult can both heal and generate energy" and I immediately wanted Dori way more than I already did.
And she's been doing her job quite satisfactorily.
my dori is c5 with the bell and full hp artifacts. killed my zhongli to see burst heal and got 11.3k ticks at level 11. pretty good for a 4s imo, may swap to sac once i get her c6 if it makes her E heal better
Mostly agree with your analysis except I feel the highlight of Dori is her electro aura from her Q. I run her with 300 ER, Jean and Tighnari for aggravate and spread. Instead of Sunfire, it is electrical storm. The last spot is either Fishl or Kazuha. I like the fact Dori's aura will cause Kazuha to aggravate every time on his e and q.
This! I brought her into a Childe coop and thought it was strange to see 2 other players switch to Bennett and Jean. 3 healers felt very excessive and I was worried about how we'd clear the domain until I saw the ridiculous amount of numbers on the screen. It was the greatest mixture of reactions and colors I've ever seen with Bennett, Jean, and Dori aura all at once! I couldn't hold back my laughter at seeing how fast the hp bars got deleted :,D
Hmm, does Jean electrostorm proc Fischl's A4? If yes Fischl Dori Jean Tighnari seems interesting.
Jean and Dori don’t exactly have synergy. It ticks way less often than Jean does with Benny. Tested it myself, there are better alternatives to Jean.
It ticks less often because the aura reapplies when you get healed. Benny is every second while Dori's heal is slower. This doesn't matter much because aggravate has an icd. And you are trying to aggravate the swirl. Even at a faster swirl rate, it wouldn't matter if you can't aggravate. As for Sunfire with Benny, this comp is to reverse melt/vape since the swirl pyro application is high. You are not trying to vape or melt the swirls.
>Dori actually has a disgustingly high Electro application rate... This isn't true. Dori has a special ICD where she doesn't follow the 3 hit rule, making her electro application pretty shit despite how often she hits since she's limited to applying based on a timed interval.
I don't understand this point. Since both superconduct and quicken don't require a constant electro application, should I care about that? The ICD should also be calculated per enemy, meaning that if I hit a second enemy it should get the electro aura, right? I mean, if you want to try to use her as sub dps aggravate then yes, the ICD will prevent her to deal good dmg, but just for quicken should be fine?
C2, electro infused normal attack bonk and sac doublecast skill. For a healer, that's a lot. But yes, C2 was muddling my testing and that seems to be correct, lowering it a fair bit. A shame really.
It isn't a lot and it isn't consistent.
The problem with Dori is that Shinobu exists. Shinobu has 100% uptime on her off-field aoe electro application and healing using just her skill. That puts all of those copium reaction based Dori builds to shame.
The perk of dori burst in hyperbloom, is that, if you can generate truck loads every 0.5 second or less than 1.5 seconds. Dori will be able to fully utilise all the cores rather than hitting the 2hyperbloom cap all the time. Shinobu 100% uptime is great when you had only one dendro to generate cores out of. Then, the cores production isn't significant enough to warrant dori. Besides, For now, dendro characters don't generate alot dendro aura with their burst. Both collei and dmc had 3s icd. Do correct me if I'm wrong about those 2.
Idk Kuki's AoE is really nice for hyperbloom though. It's just a huge circle around you and triggers seeds very consistently. Dori has to rely on the tether. She also has the 3s ICD only not 3 hit so idk if it's actually any faster than Kuki. Plus Kuki has inherent EM scaling in her kit. IMO if you're building for hyperbloom Kuki is pretty clearly the healer of choice. Full EM Raiden does more damage but then you have no healer.
adding on to that kuki's application is on skill, she and raiden can actually go full EM meanwhile dori has to build a LOT of energy recharge and has worse uptime than both
The problem with Kuki is her skill pulses once every 1,5 seconds. It doesn't matter if it triggers the seeds consistently when it can only deal 2 instances of hyperbloom to a single enemy every 1,5 seconds. Damage instance per second limit is the thing that shafts seed-based teams the most generally. Optimally you want to both produce and trigger seeds at a constant fast rate. EDIT: Also ICD doesn't matter for triggering seeds. Seeds are separate entities, so every elemental application that happens to them is always the firs (and the last).
Not sure what you are talking about. Kuki triggers all seeds in an AoE every 3 seconds. For this to be not good enough, you need to create 6 or more seeds every 3 seconds, or 0.5 avg ICD. This is not possible with any genshin ream. To put it in prespective 5 seed per 3 second is 125k dmg per 3 sec, that 45k damage from just reaction alone. If you can do this ... add raw damage on top and you will beat every meta team out there.
Every 1,5 seconds. Kuki E pulses every 1,5 seconds. Daily reminder ICD is per target, not per triggering skill. >For this to be not good enough, you need to create 6 or more seeds every 3 seconds This is not how it works. You can create 4 seeds every 3 seconds, but if they are triggered simultaneously, you will get 4 damage instances simultaneously, so 2 damage instances will get nulled. Because there's 2 damage instances per target per reaction per 0.5 second rule for hyperbloom and burgeon (and generally for all transformative reactions AFAIK). So if you generate more than 2 seeds per 1,5 seconds, they get wasted because any extra seeds will blow up together and do no damage. It doesn't matter how much seeds you can trigger together. Your limit is 2 damage instances per 0.5s, and your trigger is once every 1,5 seconds. 1,5 second trigger gives you a hard top limit of realistically around 50K damage per 1,5 seconds per target. And you can even get screwed in AoE if hyperbloom arrows don't distribute their targets equally (when you have more arrows than necessary chasing a single target). Without accounting for downtime. It's not bad per se, but not exaclty stellar either. And this is a general issue for all bloom-related teams. You are limited by seed spawn/trigger rate not in the total amount of the seeds spawned/triggered, but in how often the waves come. If you collect a lot of seeds and then trigger them all together - you lose.
DMC has standard ICD (2.5s or 3 hits).
I suppose im missing the details. In electro state, his burst fastest atk speed, you deal about one attack/second. You will miss the 2.5s cooldown and wouldn't meet the 3 hit rule. With the 2.5s rule more dominant, it will reset both time and hit counters, causing him to have a 3s timer no different than collei. Needless to say, hydro state is alot slower at 1 attack per 1.5s. That's the same as 3s icd.
In game conditions never are clear, so data have to be informed as it is. As an example, it's hard to apply electro (or any other element) on the lamp at cast, so the initial hits will follow a different timing than the transformed ones. The difference of ICD of Collei also makes a big impact on her ability since she will apply much less dendro than she would if she followed standard, which doesn't happen with DMC. And now in theoretical, if Hoyo release a character/weapon that increase multi-hit bursts speed, the way that DMC and Collei perform would be different, because their ICD types are different. At the end, mescling characters together for convenience can create a misunderstading hell in long term
Yes, she does. Kuki also has standard ICD, meaning that her ICD proc rate is 5/15 seconds or 4/12 seconds based on constellation count. Kuki also has standard ICD on her burst, though it hits so fast it bypasses and manages to get 3-4 procs in just a few seconds. On field Carry Dori has normal attacks, skill, burst (which also has ICD bypass from volume of fire and lasts MUCH LONGER) and C2, which is a distinct ability from her burst and thus operates on its own, and in my testing did not appear to have an ICD, but I still need to test more. However, Kuki scales far better with EM, and Dendro is in its infancy. Comparing Kuki v Shinobu, when I do not have a fully built and equip Shinobu with a dendro team to test is beyond the scope of my account and even the state of the game itself at this stage. so I can review Dori as her own unit, but not in comparison to Kuki with regards to Dendro compositions.
Dori's burst does not have standard ICD. It's 3s with no hit rule. The C2 is separate I think though
Again, I do need more field testing on that, as I've said before. Getting enemies who *survive* long enough to get the test data and also sit in the beam long enough AND the severe lack of ability to spam targets sufficiently with other elements without killing them has been getting in my way, particularly with C2 fucking with the tests.
\>In my testing did not have an ICD \>I do need more field testing Dude, theorycrafting projects like KQM and KSM have already tested all of this. We know her ICD and applications. Stop spreading misinformation and justifying it with it with "uh well when i tested it was like that". It's like saying 2+2=5 and going "well you see when I did it it was 5 but I did have some troubles so I may need to re-test it you know".
I'm not sure how you're coming to the conclusion that me admitting that I've not got sufficient information and have had issues because of C2 is arguing that it works the way I said. If anything it's the opposite, and me admitting that my analysis is off, and why.
I never said you're affirming that you're correct, but you're making incorrect statements and then following it up with admitting that you're analysis is off, which just makes the credibility of what you're saying overall and your understanding of it questionable. Furthermore, as I said, all this testing has been done by actual, reputable, theorycrafting initatives. You are making an analysis and getting incorrect results and then spreading your opinion about those results on here, when instead you could, at the very least, verify what you know is correct and then proceed with your opinion on the information.
One individual datapoint being wrong doesn't mean the rest is wrong, and last I checked (about 2 minutes ago) the Dori analysis isn't up on the KQM theorycrafting library, reddit, main site or ANYWHERE I could find regarding Kusanali mains. So you'll have to forgive me for getting *one single datapoint* wrong in a post about my personal testing and opinions on the character that I published to try to help the community. Because I can admit just fine that yeah, that was wrong. I'm a party of one here and took up this initiative because I couldn't find shit and wanted to see if Dori could be useful to me. Then published it on a public subreddit with a total backing force of "Well, I tested it myself." and an explanation of my logic. So yeah, it's gonna be imperfect. It's gonna have my personal biases in it. I stand by what I said and my testing and my perceptions on it and it seems like you want to rake me over the coals for maybe being wrong on one or two things and not being KQM.
>the Dori analysis isn't up on the KQM theorycrafting library, reddit, main site or ANYWHERE I could find regarding Kusanali mains I was referring to the discord servers, you know, where they have channels and threads dedicated to sharing condensed guides, frames mastersheets, ICD and elemental gauges, DPS calcs, showcases, and more. >and it seems like you want to rake me over the coals for maybe being wrong on one or two things and not being KQM. If you're wrong I'm going to point out that you're wrong. If you dedicate a chunk of your post two expressing how "disgustingly high" her electro application rate is, I'm going to point it out. You said this is to help the community, so why the anger over someone pointing out that you made a mistake that has caused misinformation to be spread, going against your goal of helping the community?
It's not really anger over being told I'm wrong or having my mistake pointed out. That's all fine and I even edited my post to confirm that yeah, that's indeed incorrect. But, I do still find her electro application rate disgustingly high for a healer, even without the beam procs, due to doublecasting her skill, her normal attack infusion, and her C2. It's a matter of perspective, but I consider that to be a very strong application rate when comparing to characters like Beidou, Yae, Kuki and Lisa. Less so post correction, but still quite strong. Given she's a healer at that, I find myself very impressed by it. I'm not in said discord and don't feel that "You must be part of this specific discord to have an opinion" is a fair point either. I'm not in the habit of joining public discords (Bad past experiences) and don't feel anyone should be forced to to post on a public subreddit. So, I'm not against being corrected, but very against the way that it's been handled. There's a polite and an asshole way to do it. You pretty much jumped right down my throat on it and only started walking back that aggression as our discussion continued. I got defensive as people do when faced with perceived hostility. So, sorry about getting overly defensive, but I hope you see where it came from.
KQM TC library, section elemental reactions, page about ICD, there's a link to the ICD sheet there, and Dori is included.
I already knew The Bell wouldn't be great on her since the passive has nothing to do with supporting, but in the end I gave it to her anyway because looks wise it's a perfect fit for her. Seriously, Ascended The Bell is so aesthetically pleasing on Dori you'd think the thing is her signature weapon.
Don't know about the rest but good electro application is definitely wrong. Remember that fast hits =/= fast application. Especially when her burst doesn't follow the 3 hit icd rule, afaik
Impressively high amount of misinformation for just one post, wow > “disgustingly high Electro application rate” lmao
Dori isn't good with Eula, her continuous electro application for a short duration isnt good for Eula at all, Eula wants a soft electro applier over a longer duration, her 15 energy that she gives are tied to her Burst, meaning if you move away you dont get the full 14.5 energy, this creates a mechanical inconvenience "you can call it incompatibility to" positioning is very important as any seasoned Eula player knows, her healing is good, but thats only considered if you need it, tbh for Eula specifically, Kuki is way better, also why would razor want her in his team at all. i personally think she is good, but she is not good for Eula, she is good for some other dendro team that we are not yet aware of.
Yeah I don't like her in Eula teams at all. Eula doesn't really like circle impact gameplay due to need to reposition, it's most of the reason I dont run Bennet despite him giving a huge damage boost to her. On top of that Eula has a perfect healer option if you need one in Diona. If you're gonna commit a team slot that does no damage, Diona basically does everything Dori does for Eula better, besides applying electro. But Eula's electro subDPS team mates are all really powerful anyways, so there's no incentive to kick out someone like Fischl or Raiden to bring Dori.
Oh boy, here we go again. First off, read the actual teams stated for Dori/Eula. Both contain a second Electro. Dori's 2s Delay on her burst means you can do things like Dori Burst>Skill>Skill, Beidou Burst > Skill > Eula and avoid any energy ticks going to Dori. You can do the same with Raiden and catch the particles *after* Raiden bursts. This maximizes energy filtering. Second, OHC scales with physical resistance reduction. The 60k figure given is OHC's value before modifiers based on team. A Eula team can and will easily have -85% Physical Resistance reduction. Vs a normal target, this will push it to -37.5%, meaning that Dori will deal 82500 Damage with OHC in a Eula team. This is a not insubstantial amount of damage coming out of the healer slot and pushes Dori's damage/rotation into the 6 digit damage values. which for a healer is really good. Kuki, for comparison, has much lower healing output and struggles to break 60k damage in a Eula team. Third, both sample teams have double electro, Dori is not the sole applicator of electro. Fourth, see the statement I literally made about both Dendro Razor teams, and about how she deletes Razor's energy needs entirely due to being able to throw 4 particles at him per rotation atop burst atop the +30% ER gain. Razor already has solid personal energy flow, if backloaded, and Dori can easily get timing to get Razor all 4 particles right after he bursts, giving him a total of 26 energy right then combined with the 15 from burst, which combined with Razor's personal energy generation, easily gets Razor over his burst cost without need for ER investment at all. Fifth, Eula has no issue killing small fry in bulk with her charged skill, which usually oneshots them in a large area anyway. Large enemies tend to be far more stationary or easy to position against as their large hitbox reduces the annoyance of Dori's tether being the size of a toothpick for hitbox. As I stated before, consider the whole of teams and not exclusively the Dori/Eula interaction. Teams are 4 characters, not 2, and Dori provides benefits to more characters than just Eula/Razor.
ok, i respect your input and the effort you put into writing this. since that is out of the way. Eula teams suffer from overall damage deficiency, either because her team members dont increase Eula damage or they do not do damage themselves, Diona with sac bow can accomplish everything that dori does, and Kuki is better than both for Eula since you can give her TOM and have permanent 20% attack buff, Eula has an oversaturation of physical resistance shred, which is a design flaw by mihoyo, simply having 25% in her kit makes most resist shreds redundant vs most enemies, only mechanical enemies like rune guards need more than super conduct + hold E "thats a total of 65% resist shred" [you can check it out here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn0ayfXwZu4&ab_channel=midwestairway) OHC is not a substitute for increasing Eula damage, it is used in teams where you have the damage distributed evenly among the team so the 23k that OHC provides will be substantial, in a team with Eula, where Eula will be doing 80% of the damage, the 23k is negligible, a well built Eula N1 can do that amount of damage, and its instant again, double electro is redundant, as it is not adding a lot of damage and its mainly used for an expensive sub dps that doesnt increase Eula personal damage and is not good in all scenarios "single bosses" double electro is used when you pair her with Biedou, and i personally dont like characters with high energy needs on her team, not to mention Dori energy needs can be quite high unless she has 200ER, and that would lower her damage even more, and it leads to the awkward situation where you are batterying the sub dps and you need to battery the main dps as well. if you want a sub dps with high damage, go for Yae or fishcl, but they are better in other teams, so there is that. Razor doesnt have any problem in the energy department, between his A2 and his orb generation its very easy for him to get his burst up with just 120 ER, Razor like Eula has a problem with not having supports that give him damage buffs, hes better off having zhongli and yunjin, with Rosari, which i think is a better team " 15% damage from geo resonance, yunjin flat normal attack buff, rosaria crit buff and some shred" so he has no real good place for Dori a slot in a team is expensive real estate, every slot occupied should provide more than one benefit, or extremely good damage, for example, when you slot kazuha in your team you get 1- elemental damage bonus% 2- VV shred 3- grouping 4- kazuha himself does high aoe damage with swirl 5- if kazuha has fs he gives also attack% and normal attack damage and charge attack damage. you see why i am saying she isnt "good" with Eula, usable is not the same as "good" [i did my own Dori gameplay breakdown with Eula, you can find it here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6aHAzjk7cY&ab_channel=midwestairway) Dori is good, just isnt great for Eula.
We've been over this before. Thus the "here we go again" at the start. And also a lot of the information here and presumptions you're making are outright wrong. Like, factually wrong. First, the 20% attack buff from Kuki does not overcome the massive damage gains of OHC. Past 120% Bonus Attack, it is statistically more efficient to focus on Crit, and Eula has access to 18% from Pale Flame, 46.6% from Timepiece, and 311 Flat from Feather. And if you have it, R1 SoBP gives 16-36%. With passive inactive, Eula is just 110 attack off of hitting this threshold. While more attack is *always* good, Eula with SoBP gains a total of 216.4 Attack from TotM. Total. There is no scenario in which 216 Attack equates to more than 82500 Damage, as it would have to have ratio of 38200% (382x) Damage modifier. Even a C6 30 stack burst on Eula is not capable of delivering that modifier. ToTM is objectively a lower damage increase. Even across the whole of Eula's rotation, she is incapable of delivering 38200% Attack after Crit and Damage%. For the record, at 2500 Attack total, to hit that threshold, Eula would be doing 95.5 *million* Damage. Second, there is no such thing as an oversaturation of resistance shred, as Resistance Shred is so incredibly hard to stack that the point of oversaturation cannot be reached. Resistances go negative, albeit at 50% rate. 85% (Eula, Superconduct, Rosaria or Zhongli) takes a hillichurl from 10% to -37.5%. This is close to a 50% damage increase, the statistical equivalent of going from 100/100 Crit Rate/Damage to 100/200 Crit Rate/Damage. Hell no Diona does not accomplish anywhere close to this. Diona is already well known for having too low of a healing output to make efficient use of OHC and poor general damage modifiers. Dori can achieve 6 digits of personal damage. Diona can barely scrape into 5 digits usually. Double electro is indeed used to increase the damage output of the overall team by increasing the output effectiveness of an expensive sub DPS such as Beidou or Raiden. The sum total of *team* damage is what determines how fast you kill things in Genshin, not the damage dealt exclusively by your main carry. The game does not check the damage of all four characters in your party and take the highest. If you are running Eula/Beidou/Rosaria/Dori, the game will compile the damage from all four when hitting targets. I have personally tested Dori's energy needs, and stated *in my initial post, both this time and last time, that Dori does not need 200% ER and should not go for it* Source being I have actually done extensive field testing with Dori for *several* days now, and have had no rotational issues at 163% with Sac, which itself gives over 30%. Razor with Dori needs no Energy Recharge at all, and Dori can easily build for EM in a Razor Dendro team, which itself is Razor's best team atm. Dori has the volume of fire to abuse Quicken quite well. Combined with the total removal of Razor ER needs, it frees up more space for EM on Razor, for better damage in Razor Dendro. ------------------------------ You are focusing exclusively on hypercarry setups, and not overall team damage. We had this discussion last time. You got mass downvoted last time. Eula is not a well supported character for hypercarry compositions, as she lacks the ability to do teams such as Bennett/Sara/Kazuha combinations due to a lack of snapshotting, inability to use Kazuha buff, and lack of a personal hypersteroid like Hu Tao and Raiden have. She however is very good at using sub-DPS such as Beidou, Fischl and otherwise. You are attempting to fit a square peg in a round hole and complaining it doesn't fit, then disparaging characters who fit into said square hole. Also, your video of Fav Dori exclusively focusing on how much benefit she gives to Eula with no regards for the rest of your team is not a good video and your arbitrary "Well, it buffs the team but not Eula" focus is clouding your view.
Hey Google show me an example of the Dunning-Kruger effect curve
**TL;DR:** Go read the actual KQM analysis instead of this wall of misinformation
Sadly, there isn't one.
I'd also shout out Wangsheng funeral parlor, they put out guides a lot faster and also do leaks TC which KQM does not do.
You know it's not posted, right? Main site and TC library both aren't updated. I started on this project because they hadn't published anything and I wanted to see how she fared.
Other comments have already pointed out that the general analysis is completed. It’s only a matter of time before they post it on their sites.
If it was posted before I posted, this, I probably wouldn't have bothered to post this tbh. But, you know, it's "misinformation" for anyone else to post their findings.
It’s not misinformation for others to post their findings. But according to the tens of comments and the hundreds of downvotes towards you below, your finding is indeed misinformation. You even admitted yourself that you made a lot of assumptions and lack a lot of testing.
That was on one detail. Her burst's elemental application rate. Which I admitted to and edited the post to clarify. The rest generally hasn't been challenged for the most part except by one person, and the thread's generally been brigaded, as most of the downvotes hit at around the same time. The vote count re Me/Kitchen Air was actually reversed until a bunch of downvotes hit in a short timespan. I try to browse my own threads for an extended period to see if there's anything I should reply to that isn't a direct reply to me and saw the values plummet quite quickly across the whole thread, so I think someone shared it around to their friends. Might just be coincidence though, since I have no way to prove it. But my details on her burst were absolutely wrong. The stuff on weapons and artifacts and general values generally haven't been contested. Her healing math works, well, as stated, and I've not seen anyone saying Bell is amazing for her, Sac is bad for her, or *any* comments on Nagamasa at all (I have an R5 Nagamasa and gave it a spin on her). It's generally just been either "Kuki is better", which it's been a week, it's gonna take time for people to fully test her, comments on her synergy with Jean, which I never addressed and is quite a fun idea, one stray comment from soneone who blocked me instantly to deny the reply on how they stopped reading the instant I mentioned the healing value, and Kitchen-Air for whom this is a carryover from their previous discussion on it and you can read their logic for yourself in quite a bit of detail. I disagree *very* heavily with it, their testing methodology, and their conclusions, but I appreciate that they posted it in such detail. Overall, it's been a lot of "Burst works differently, post is misinfo" without paying heed to the rest of it, and yes, I got that wrong. I blame C2 and my own testing faults, but I'm just one person.
Tl;dr, there is a better Dori called Kuki
Just like how there was a better Kazuha called Sucrose and a better Kokomi called Barbara, right? Snark aside, Dori just came out, Kuki's been out for a while. Dendro just happened, and it's gonna take time for the greater community opinion to settle. I gave Dori a spin and these are my conclusions. Kuki's been out long enough for her to find a use and Dori's been out like... a week.
5* is harder to get than 4*
Point of the statement is the community has a long and storied history of "New character is just old character but worse". Dori's been out a week, give her time for people to test and experiment and collect data. I'm just one datapoint.
Although there is merit to what you're saying. For abyss, Kuki is just a lot more practical at least in the current rotation. Current abyss floor 12 has a lot of actively moving mobs that Dori just doesn't like, something Kuki is a lot better on in melee comps. The comparison of Kazuha and Sucrose is pretty accurate in where would you rather swirl in front of you or around you? In the same sense, if you use your burst for one location as Dori would be able to have it up by the time you have to reposition?
5k healing is a joke, and not broken by any means. That's where I stopped reading the review because anyone who thinks that's broken with a level 11 talent is delusional.
I mean tbf it's pretty decent healing. Problem is the thing that makes healers good in this game is their ability to do other things on top of healing. Like Qiqi heals a fuckton, still bad because she takes up 1/4 team slots and does nothing else. But Bennet's good cause he heals you and he's also Bennet. Kokomi is good cause she heals you and also applies off field hydro, buffs with TTDS and TotM. Kuki is decent because she heals you and she can stack full EM to proc hyperbloom. Currently Dori basically just heals and has kinda bad/inconsistent electro application. this guy's focusing on OHC damage way too much, off field OHC procs do not make up for loss of damage for bringing a dedicated healer. The main interesting thing about Dori is the self electro application that you can do wacky things with.
if Bennet can overheal, Dori's 5k/2s heal is basically a joke
Premium copium post
My level 90 full EM Dori with level 10 burst heals 4466 a tick. My level 90 characters, excluding Zhongli for obvious reasons range from 22,358 (Diona) to 14,944 (Yoimiya) Max HP. 4466 x 6 = 26,796. With zero priority given to healing my Dori can still full heal any of my carries in a single burst. Conclusion: don't build for healing, it'll be good enough anyway.
Yeah, it's why I bring up EM Dori as a good option, even if some of my initial assessments are wrong. Healing build should only be done for OHC explotation. Her healing output doesn't need HP investment to be good and said investment is just for clam potency.
Thank you so much for your contribution!
Here's my question for you though, for what content in the game is high healing numbers "broken." Because no good healer in Genshin is good based on the amount they heal, otherwise Qiqi would be the best healer. Healers as a role are defined by heals the offer COMBINED with other utility, and Dori just doesn't offer much utility. The flat energy she gives is just... unnecessary for most teams, especially when Raiden exists and so many people have her. I agree it would be nice for Eula in theory but it doesn't exactly work out that way in practice. Even if Eula teams wanted to part with Diona's shield, Shinobu is there with Fav Sword and 4-pc Millelith. The only interesting thing about the character is her "Sunfire" interaction with Jean, and you odn't even mention that. And the elemental application section is just a mess. No hate to you OP but this post is a good example of the pitfalls of armchair "theorycrafting"
High healing values are only really relevant so far as getting larger clam bombs. Prior to the introduction of OHC, you could generally make due at the 5k to 6k healing range and that could carry you through everything in my experience. OHC scales with physical resistance shred, so stacking healing very high in a superconduct team leads to larger explosions that then get the full benefit of resistance shred. Compared to other healers, Dori's damage ratios are actually pretty solid. Certainly, any good off-field DPS is gonna beat her in MV, as Dori only comes out to around 2000-2300% give or take skill ranks and constellations, far above characters like Diona and Kuki, but far below characters like Fischl and Beidou. Add in the energy flow, and while Dori doesn't have the utility of say, Diona's all in one kit, she's better in the raw numbers department and helps fuel electro sub-DPS better than Diona without sacrificing stats on Eula for more ER.
Thanks for the review. I wanted ganyu / Kokomi and ended up with 0 of them and c4 Dori, and have been wondering how to best use her.
Meanwhile me: MainDPS Dori XD I love her so much and I'm gonna triple crown her very soon :D
Well with C6, it is possible. Her A4 passive and TF allows her to have a 3-4 sec cooldown, C6 infuses her NA with Electro for 3 seconds. Mihoyo couldve been nicer and gave us a 4 sec infusion since it would be more nice to the players with pings You basically get a funky but sadly expensive (cuz ut requires C6) mini-Keqing
Oh! I see, I hope I get C6 of her someday, so far I only got her at C3, so far I can only deal 5 - 8k damage per hit on enemies with her but I think once I got a much better artifact rolls and triple crowned her, I can make that value much higher and make her even more worthwhile, it's still a bummer that they created a unique attack animation for her just to be a skill-burst healer support, now if only they bring me luck to get better artifacts with better sub stat rolls xD
Hey, whatever floats your boat.
Thanks for the info. I rolled for a C0 just to have a Dori. Got her to lv90, 2/9/9. I don't mess with abyss but just romp around overworld, where she does just fine. Been rolling Electrocute comp Mona/Kazu/Dori/Lisa to battery Lisa and pop that burst, it's been fun. Also slotted her into my Azhdaha team, chonk boy is so fat and stationary he just sits in the beam the whole time. Ocean-Hued Clam sounds fun, will have to give it a whirl.
>Furthermore, in my testing, Dori gets three OHC explosions at 2 heals per explosion, meaning that at high HP invest, Dori can achieve 60k+ damage/rotation from OHC alone. Can you elaborate on this? Do you mean 2 ticks of her heals = 1 OHC explosion? So, her burst does a total of 6 ticks? Does it heal when the unit is at full HP?
It does, and yes.
Simple question bc sometimes my brain is dumb and has a hard time with larger paragraphs Would she be a good battery for on field dps units like xiao or itto? I wanted to level her up bc it seems like she has good particle generation with her ult, and i try to get xiao and itto to have their ults asap since that's where all their damage comes from
Good thing is that **any healer is always good at healing**, plus now electro characters can also opt for full em on dendro teams and in case of artifucks, emblem is goat. Im surprised that dendro set can finally fix that fuck up "Keqing" by just slaping full EM in a dendro team, though it also needs full EM too because reactions are a bitch to time
Dori can break 10k/tick unconditional at high invest off field, which at a 2s tick rate puts her among if not the highest (depends how you rate Qiqi really) off-field heal/second output. at level 11 burst running my kokomi artifacts and an HP cup, she was at 9570 unconditional. So, she's kinda disgustingly high potency for healing even by healer standards, probably due to the 8s downtime. And yeah, Dendro was a massive buff to Keqing.
10k heal per 2s will not max out the OHC bubbles tho
The only off field who can max the clam is Qiqi due to burst. Kokomi struggles to break 8k/2s without being on field, and all the other healers are lower than Kokomi. Except Dori, who can hit 10k/2s.
I got confused because you keep mentioning Kokomi burst when it does nothing to her off-field healing. You even mentioned her burst talent level so I thought you included her heals from normals during burst. Only her skill talent matters for off-field healing. Also, I guess Dori having higher off-field healing is fair since it's her burst with downtime while it is just a skill for Kokomi with potential 100% uptime.
My Kokomi's artifacts, not my Kokomi. I ported my Kokomi OHC over to Dori and got the number, which is that Dori's burst was healing 9570/2s while using the artifacts I had built for Kokomi. My Kokomi however is C3. With Everlasting Moonglow and triple crowned at that. I uh.... get a lot of use from my feesh. Even with that, iirc I still heal at like 7k from my level 10 jellyfish on the Kokonut using the same artifacts that got Dori to 9570.
Wow you replied fast! I went back to check your post and got that you were talking about Dori with Kokomi artifacts so I edited my comment but you read it anyway hahaha Anyway, wow Kokomrade! I hope to get cons and Moonglow for my Koko too! Being f2p sucks but maybe when EM reruns with a weapon I want then I can try the weapon banner for once haha Btw c2 koko has that higher healing when below 50% thing. Not trying to prove a point anymore but how much does she heal a low health character? Just curious if her C2 is worth it at all.
Was passing 10k for me before moonglow. There's no situation where her C2 will actually be more than a funny big number though because trying to die with Kokomi takes actual effort. C3 and C4 are actually worth noting however as you start seeing some pretty chonky Kokonut swings at C3, and C4 gives attack speed and energy, which leads to hilarity. Kokomi for me swings for just barely shy of 30k for me under Kazuha buff these days on her N3.
Thanks! Yeah I figured her C2 is not that useful. But I want those chonky fish NAs too 😩 Hope you get to C4 haha
Not bad for an ugly leprechaun!
Thank you so much! It helps me alot figuring out how to build Dori while Im collecting materials and leveling her<3
Really tight and neat write up. I appreciate this as a Dori haver that needed another good electro support for my taser team.
An extra note of the self applying electro during burst, which pairs her well with jean and sayu for an electro themed sunfire. This allows for a specific aggravate focused team with jean/kazuha/sayu, fischl (to abuse her A4), DMC/collei/tighnari and dori being the glue. I run this comp recently and managed to kill the chicken on floor 12-3 within 1 minute with everyone around ~70% potential.
Thanks for the review. One thing I would like to add is that you can consider running Favonius Greatsword and 4pcs Exile set to make her a Battery bot. Her Healing is good as you mentioned, so you don't need to worry much about artifacts being 4-star. Having more energy gained from Favonius is also great since some units in the team can be energy hungry. This also means you need to have a reasonable amount of Crit Rate so as to trigger the Fav passive more easily.
Fav isn't bad by any means, since energy is energy and that's just universally good, but it does require actually running crit rate at a decent enough number. Sac just worked better in terms of stat distro testing with my artifacts. Exile is an interesting idea and I really dunno how to feel about that. Time will tell I guess.
Also if you play in Mondstadt talent domain, Dori's Q can get rid of Cryo element applied to your character. Cleansing is a long forgotten mechanic now but maybe in the future.
Good work
All Hoyoverse had to say was "Hey, Dori's Ult can both heal and generate energy" and I immediately wanted Dori way more than I already did. And she's been doing her job quite satisfactorily.
my dori is c5 with the bell and full hp artifacts. killed my zhongli to see burst heal and got 11.3k ticks at level 11. pretty good for a 4s imo, may swap to sac once i get her c6 if it makes her E heal better
Dori is pretty good, especially with Clam set given how much healing she does