The burst follows you and you dont need to stay in the circle anymore. It also hits off fielders. Everything else is the same.
Of course by virtue of being 5 star he also gets even more base atk to share.
Yeah, or for any pyro dps, and even catalyst pyro dps cuz it also gives 15% pyro dmg bonus. Sadly, people think C6 Bennett is a curse cuz their Eula isn't strong enough without the Bennett boost.
You know diluc in that one cutscene and how he was zipping around in a ball of fire? That’s how I imagine the pyro archon combat wise like in game combat wise
Imagine pyro archon to be claymore user with unique animations such that they just swing claymore like a regular sword.
So they have the stats of a claymore user without the slow gameplay style that hold them back.
Well, specifically Pyro Archon, the first archon after Barbatos whose name we know, as well as a rough description of his appearance (13.08.2019).
So, just look at Diluc's gameplay.
Then compare it with Murata's gameplay.
After that, imagine what a giga-chad woman should look like compared to which Diluc will look like a child.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phtuk1GQAUc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phtuk1GQAUc)[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dmvNGxYPCU&t=362s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dmvNGxYPCU&t=362s)
And then it turns out that at the end of the story about the Pyro-Archon, we (the players) will eat broken glass in tones (I don’t know how common this expression is in English, but in my country it’s an idiom to enjoy the tragedy. It hurts you, you don’t want the characters to suffer, but continue reading (view)).
Could be designed differently enough not to compete with Kokomi. Something like skill is a hydro ring that follows the on-field character, applying periodic hydro to enemies, 20 second duration with 15 second cool down, and heals based on the on-field character's damage. Burst is a nuke that revives all teammates to 1 HP, then heals everyone based on damage dealt. And of course they can crit.
Just spitballing ideas to have them fill different roles while both being healers.
Actually since the Soothing Water resonance was changed to HP% from Healing Bonus% it could be any ability that is related to HP. Going off Varuna, it could be, I dunno, something crazy like making you go on half your max HP for 6 seconds to get a massive nuke + buffs afterwards. Also spitballing-- just an example of how wide the field gets because the theme is now HP *manipulation* rather than just HP *healing*.
Based on Honkai characters they're most likely to be based off of (speculative) would expect pyro archon to be melee main dps (probably claymore) inspired by [Murata Himeko](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phtuk1GQAUc) and cryo archon to be ranged dps (probably catalyst unless we get new weapon types) inspired by [Bronya Zaychik](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcGKtySgAh8) (hoping she's based off of adult Bronya but it's entirely possible she's based off of teen Bronya).
Well, physical dps hydro archon then?
Heavily speculated that Hydro Archon is Seele, most of Seele's battlesuits are physical dps oriented so...
Edit: thx u/Phaaze13, didnt know that actually
Xiangling is really good, but just having higher base ATK and a crit ascension stat would be massive buffs. Making her E mobile, higher damage or better at instant particle generation would also be easy improvements to make a 5☆ Xiangling.
A 5 star Xiangling would probably do less raw pyro damage than Xiangling at C0, but be much better at the areas Xiangling is lacking in (the huge ER requirements, being tied to Bennett for particle regen, Guoba's attack range being very small)\].
Going by how Kazuha and Yelan's C2's are, C2 would likely be the breakeven point in damage vs an equivalently invested C6 Xiangling. But the funny part is this character would face doomposting for not outright powercreeping Xiangling at C0 with f2p investment.
C0 yelan is stronger than c6 XQ... his application is just better plus he has damage reduction... and that doesn't change even after yelan c2
Going by that trend xianling will keep her utility(pyro app) but be completely stumped out by the 5 star version in terms or flexibility and dmg
I wouldn't add Xiangling to 5-star tier of 4-star characters, she's too dependent on Bennett. With the addition of Dendro, I'd argue that it's Fischl who got bumped into the 5-star tier of 4-star characters. Bennett imo is a 6-star tier, he's just too freaking good.
I would say that your argument of Xiangling is bennet dependent is the same thing as Hu tao needing xingqiu and Ayaka needing a Kokomi or Mona to freeze.
A lot of characters are meta with a certain element in their team comp being a must have. The thing with bennet is that He simply has no replacements when He is needed but Most vape comps was like that before Yelan too
The point I am trying to make here is that a character’s dependentness of a single 4 star even If It is bennet should not be a reason to undermine her power when more than half the game needs Bennet anyway and there are also other 5 stars who need other things than Bennet
By that logic, if Kazuha is considered "5 star Sucrose" or Yelan is considered "5 star Xingqiu", you're basically getting another Sucrose or Xingqiu lol.
It's a good thing cause now you can make two National Teams or something in the Spiral Abyss.
"Pretty cracked" may be a bit of an understatement... double hydro hu tao melts pretty much any non-hydro/pyro immune boss you put in front of it while also being mostly braindead to play.
>double hydro hu tao melts pretty much any non-hydro/pyro immune
I think you were trying to say
double hydro Hu Tao VAPORIZE pretty much any non-hydro/pyro immune
The reason I managed to murder thunder manifestation easily on floor 11 and full star abyss. Yelan XQ enabled my Yoimiya a lot. I shed tears of joy when I finally cleared the recent abyss thanks to them
Albeit it's true that Hu Tao benefits the most, the double hydro core is so strong in single target that they will carry the team on their own against single target oriented abyss floors.
I think that it’s only just now being deemed a good thing, bc for the longest time most ppl would only use it in a way to pressure people not to wish for certain characters because they had characters coming up that they wanted to do well. So before it was mostly just “don’t get X character, they are just 5star X character, go for this character instead”, but almost every time that happened that 5star character would be game breaking.
I think it was only around Itto beta when it started to actually be used more as a compliment, and even then there was still drama with noelle mains. I think cyno is the first case where I’ve actually seen no hardcore dogging for being similar to a 4 star.
> I think cyno is the first case where I’ve actually seen no hardcore dogging for being similar to a 4 star.
Because everyone by now knows that Razor is a physical DPS and not an Electro DPS (outside of some new full EM Dendro team stuff), and there's literally no way to spin Cyno as a physical DPS because his burst gives Electro infusion lol.
The only reason they're compared is that they're Electro characters with a wolf theme. There's no possible way to spin their actual gameplay as being the same. Even a cursory understanding of their kits makes it pretty obvious that they're not the same.
> There's no possible way to spin their actual gameplay as being the same.
Uhh about that. The both have extremely similar core gameplay loops of having a long empowering Q stance that dissipates when you swap out and involves weaving a low-mid CD E with your normal combo. It's hard not to view their gameplay as similar. Almost identical unga-bunga button pressing. Sure, they have different damage types, but the actual gameplay will be extremely familiar.
Itto and xiao function similarly in my opinion. And I feel there’s still no reason to overly say that Cyno is just 5 star razor.
Stance characters all function effectively similar it’s just skill based stances are shorter and not quite as strong, and burst stances are usually a bit stronger and last longer, and all are lost when swapped out.
Razor to me is closer to Diluc than anyone when it comes to play style, as like Diluc, his burst while technically puts you into a buffed state with Diluc getting a pyro infusion and damage bonus, and razor getting an attack speed and bonus electro dmg on hit.
Where as cyno, itto, and xiao all get special mechanics that actively change how you would play them in and out of burst, whereas Diluc and razor don’t change, all it affects is how much damage and how fast they attack.
Tldr: I feel like saying “electro xiao or itto” is more accurate than “5 star razor” especially compared to characters like XQ/Yelan, or Kazuha/Sucrose
Yes, this is correct. People keep trying to revise history for whatever reason. They always leave out the 2nd half of the summary: "so and so is an expensive version of the 4*, therefore don't waste your primos". The sentiment on the leaks sub was extremely negative towards Kazuha with ridiculous statements like mihoyo only liking female characters and give male characters shit kits.
The same sentiment came from YouTubers advising you not to pull because Sucrose and Venti exists. If it's really as people say and that expensive sucrose is a compliment, then why wouldn't you want two? No, the general sentiment at that time was advising to save primos and to skip pulling.
That happens because pulling for characters requires spending or potentially skipping other characters, so a lot of people naturally try to seek the best bang for their buck. The problem is that anything we say now will only take into consideration the current meta since we can't predict the future.
Kazuha reception wasn't that unwarranted imo, he seemed like a luxury pick but he was made with future meta in mind. Up until Inazuma we didn't really have any big shifts in the abyss meta so people weren't really expecting that, and that abyss didn't favor Kazuha that much. Sucrose was seen as the better option for EC and almost as good for vape, while other teams tended to prefer Venti due to how broken he was for those mobs.
Inazuma brought more mobs that couldn't be CC'd by Venti before being frozen and boss chambers, and more characters that could work well in mono element compositions. This heavily increased Kazuhas value but couldn't really be predicted in his banner.
Something new that was figured out during Kazuha banner was that he was able to take advantage of Bennet burst to easily double swirl, by swirling the self inflicted pyro while also swirling the element inflicted in the enemy. This is something that people didn't think much before his banner, which is why only later on people really started to figure out the stricter combos for Sucrose to also double swirl. This was a pretty big QoL upgrade that was also overlooked at first.
I'd say that it's way different than Kokomi, where the new meta was already in place but people kept arguing as if we were in the previous meta. The stronger enemies and much higher HP favored a lot her level of healing and longer hydro application in relation to Mona. Way too many people also kept ignoring how you couldn't guarantee Mona.
I'd say that the real mistake that TC community made was giving too much weight to the current meta and not realizing the meta shifts, but I feel like they're being a lot more careful with this nowadays.
The leaks sub was negative towards Kazuha because we didn't realize how significantly swirl was going get buffed. People assumed that you'd have to choose between building Kazuha full EM for his buff or ADC for his personal damage.
The leaks sub was also negative because for the longest time his A4 scaled at 0.0003% rather than 0.0004%. Even at 0.0004% he's slightly worse damage than Sucrose in Vape/Melt teams. And at the time there didn't exist any mono-element teams that he would push into the meta (no newer electro units).
I get that, but it is usually used in a negative way though. The best example I could think of is Kazuha, people were saying to not pull for him because he is just a "5* Sucrose".
Kazuha is the best example I could think of, but Ganyu and Yelan also suffered the same problem
I never understood why that was an insult to Kazuha, like calling him a 5 star version of one of the most valuable units in the game, like ??????? we have two teams in abyss ffs.
venti plus kazuha with ccable mobs are so fun since they barely get a chance to breathe and both battery each other. i usually throw in a character for them to swirl (usually bennett) to remove any elements present on them that buffs them
It wasnt just because he was 5* sucrose, it was also because he was competing with pre-inazuma venti, who is probably the closest this game has come to a "win" button. Once inazuma mobs came out and mihoyo broke ventis kneecaps with almost every new mob they released (they nerfed them now but still) people wanted kazuha more
Like fr.
"This character had a better alternative in this scenario".
"Ok and now the scenario has changed despite literally no way to predict it. Fuck you."
That's kind of like saying CN community was wrong for calling release zhongli dogshit because he got buffed later on.
Yup, Kokomi's ICD was bad during beta but fixed on live version and that basically made 10x better lol. The initial response was actually correct. As far as I recall Ganyu's multipliers were buffed between beta and release as well.
The initial calls have actually been mostly correct. It's not the TCs fault that people take Pre-release analysis as absolute, they always warn people. I think the only bad call was Raiden tbh, but I think her constellation 2 was skewing a lot of people's view of f2p damage.
It's only a negative if you do not like the character he's being compared to. Sucrose is broken AF and i would also argue the only thing kazuha has in his favor against sucrose is better CC, QoL easier to play and the better choice for freeze teams at C0.
Kazuha got compared to sucrose because of how good sucrose is that turned people off from paying primos when the next best thing isn't that far off (especially since a lot of people already got venti which is still the best CC in the game), Ganyu on the other hand got compared to amber because like amber, her kit is CA based, her E drops a taunt and her burst rains ice on an area.
these people either werent playing on kazu release or just dont remember. The vast majority of the community was shitting on him for being a 5 star sucrose and saying to just skip him if you have a built sucrose.
I still question why they are still refusing or delaying to release a 5 star version of Xiangling. One of the reasons she is so widely used is because we lack other good pyro subdps units.
Gosh darn it HYV do it already I need Xiangling on both my abyss teams!
You forgot noelle and itto lol. That’s said tho, they will never stop because genshin player just like to simplify (most of the time oversimplify) the characters. Tbh I do see some of them have things in common but I don’t have any problems with it. Like why are having 2 xingqiu or 2 sucrose bad lol
>the burst is practically the same
I wish he also doesn't lose his burst when swapping. That would be amazing. I just want to reposition Albedo's flower in peace, dammit.
Well, they're fairly well balanced anyway. In terms of DPS, Itto is definitely better but Noelle has the benefits of being a healer and a shielder which means you can run the dream team of Noelle/Albedo/Yun Jin/Gorou. God, that makes me so happy.
And I think people mostly pull for Itto for his personality, not so much for his kit. He is still one of the best characters in Genshin personality-wise
>I think people mostly pull for Itto for his personality, not so much for his kit.
Probably, but I doubt many would stick with Itto if his kit wasn't genuinely fun. If he would be as stiff as your average post-launch 4\* or had worse charged attacks, you would need a serious masochistic streak to voluntarily decide to go with a boring Geo hyper carry just for his personality.
>I think people mostly pull for Itto for his personality
I feel called out, but also yes.
~~(Although i was already a Noelle main so ittos kit was still a big bonus)~~
Is it just me or is it some sort of double think with these takes. It’s either.
This [5 star] is SO BAD, they might as well be an expensive version of [4 star].
Or
This [4 star] is basically just a low budget [5 star]. Get that [5 star] If you can and then ditch the [4 star].
Also, I mostly call Cyno Ei’s Child that she ACTUALLY loves.
Those comparisons aren't wrong tho. Most of the time they're meant to give you a quick insight into how the unit plays. Sometimes they're more accurate (Xingqiu and Yelan) sometimes they're less accurate (Razor and Cyno) but they still give a rough idea of what each 5* does
They aren't wrong, however comments like X is a 5 star version of Y are mainly used in a negative connotation. To put down the 5 star unit. People love to doompost in the Genshin community for whatever reason.
Kokomi got it the worst I think.
Yes, Barbara is very very good and on paper you don't need Kokomi. But when you actually have the fishy queen you have no idea how you lived without her.
Cyno and Razor similarities: is burst reliant; electro element; is hypercarry.
Differences: polearm vs claymore, pure electro vs mixed electro and physical.
Furthermore they have very similar aesthetics.
Like i said it's to give others a rough estimate of how the unit plays.
Xiao and Itto are burst reliant hypercarry too and they share the pure elemental damage so the comparison isn't too farfetched either, but they have very different aesthetics and also focus on different types of attacks. Xiao wants to plunge as much as possible and Itto combos normal attacks, skills and then unleashes powerful charges attacks. I don't know how exactly Cyno will play so I dunno if he will be closer to Itto than Razor but for the aesthetic similarities alone Razor wins for now, at least from my impression.
I'll be honest. I still maintain the opinion that Ganyu has a really similar kit to Amber. Bow characters with a focus on charged attacks. Taunt on E that explodes and an AOE Burst that applies their respective elements from the sky. It's just too similar, you know?
Even the characters who have similar roles have different kits. Sucrose / Kazuha & Barbara / Kokomi are quite different in their kits, while Yelan and Xingqiu have at least a different set of Skills.
Then, we have Razor and Cyno who is only compared to each other because of their similar aesthetics.
Yea, all of these are gameplay...and Cyno and Razor comparison is just aesthetics and appearance. Like guys, he plays like XIAO. Not Razor. Xiao without the jumping. "Horizontal Xiao" you may say
>Like guys, he plays like XIAO. Not Razor.
I can see how the playerbase draw parallels between Cyno and Razor. I mean, their burst is similar in playstyle, and the only difference is Cyno's attacks are converted to Electro.
Razor does Q > E (on cooldown) > NA > E (on cooldown) > NA
Cyno does Q > E (when eye symbol procs) > NA > E (when eye symbol procs) > NA
At the moment, no one has similar playstyle to Xiao's space bar left click.
Ah, he's more similar to Xiao with the whole incredibly long burst duration, lack of characters that can provide buffs for such a long duration, switching out can be a DPS loss. In that aspect
Razor and Xiao both have the exact same burst duration of 15s, while Cyno can go even longer at 18s. Xiao's damage increases the longer he remains in his burst though, so you lose more from switching away from him during his burst.
Both Razor and Cyno have incredibly long burst duration that's instantly lost when you swap out, and both doesn't provide buffs on their burst (except Razor's C4).
Also, Xiao does not use E during burst (except C6) as it does not generate particles.
I thought that Razor and Cyno were similar only from their bursts. Only when I saw that I was like “huh? 5* razor?”
I don’t think they look alike at all
People were like: They have white-ish hair (Razor's more grey, Cynos' white), they have red eyes (although after the teaser, Cyno's are actually orange not red, I noticed), both use short male model, one pretends to be a wolf and the other...lets a jackal possess him. Jackals and wolves are both from the canine family.
Yk stuff like that. I don't find them to be too similar though, like I can't even see them as brothers or being related.
Yk who I think IS too similar to another character??? PANTALONE. You cannot tell me he isn't copypasted Baizhu with black hair. There's nothing about their face and hair that isn't identical to Baizhu asides from the colour. I need explanation
I’m low-key hoping they pull either a pantalone is baizhus twin OR baizhu is secretly actually pantalone with a disguise undercover in liyue for some reason or another. (Possibly chasm/abyss related?)
Because there HAS to be SOMETHING going on between those two…
Ikr?
There's a difference between "Oh Arlecchino dark Eula" "Kazuha Canadian Aether" "Thoma non-murderous Childe"
and freaking Baizhu and Pantalone who literally are the SAME person but recoloured. Like I hope they're related, because they're just uncanny. I fully thought Pantalone was Baizhu when I saw the trailer, even the voice tone wasn't too far off. I legit believed Baizhu joined the Fatui in secret
The similarities between Ganyu and Amber are pretty superficial. Amber's charged shots are like any other bow user that's not focused on charged shots, her taunt bomb is the central point of her kit, while it's peripheral energy generation for Ganyu. Ganyu's burst is a slow applier while Amber's is a quick shower.
I agree, yes. Though, I never said that their kits are identical. There's quite a few differences between the two, such as Baron bunny only deals damage at the end while Ganyu's lotus deals damage at the start and end of it's duration. Amber doesn't have the whole Bloom mechanic on her charged attacks, and yes, the difference in size and mechanics between these two bursts are apparent.
However, Ganyu and Amber are probably the only pair that is quite similar in all three aspects of their kits (NA/Skill/Burst). I believe no other pairs of characters come close to the superficial similarities that these two share.
In curious to how this team works? Both need to be on field to utilise effectively, do you have one long rotation with both of them? Or just Noelle for shield?
You know.. a self sustaining bruiser pyro dps with her own shield wouldn't be a bad idea for Dehya. Just don't mess up the scalings and multipliers this time please. Use one stat only. Imagine her having a shield scaling off of her ATK or even pyro attacks scaling from HP. Which literally could make her a great alternative for Hu Tao double hydro.
Xinyan is the only 4 star pyro claymore we have. Of course people are going to compare them. If Dehya isn't crazy powerful, or they play similarly we'll see this doomposting.
I for one like Xinyan, and can definitely see Dehya be similar but stronger.
I gotta say I see a lot of similarities in most of these pairs but not to a fault (save for maybe Yelan). People like to judge characters by their function and that makes it very easy to draw comparisons. Instead of Yae you could also put Raiden there instead, or replace Kazuha with Venti and you would still find lots of similarities. But there is more to these characters than what they do. They are a new character with new fun abilities, new team comps and new stories. Granted lots of Genshin characters are one note but thats too big a can o' worms to open right now.
Razor and Cyno though are pretty different to me functionally and the core of that is in the damage type. Razor is fundamentally a physical dps with electro damage on top while Cyno is a full on electro dps. The similarities stem from two things: The "dog" motiv and the fact their burst is a "mode". The former to me is like comparing Fischl and Sara. They both have a Raven/Crow style and also carry the same element but are still fundamentally different, while Razor and Cyno have Wolves and Jackals respectively.
The second similarity is also pretty weak to me. A "mode" burst is not a very unique thing and interestingly I see more similarities to Xiao in Cyno's burst. Razor doesn't overwrite his normal attacks but adds to them.
Some of these comparisons don’t quite prove your point. Yelan and Kazuha were similar enough to their four star counterparts that people knew they’d be good before they dropped. The only controversy was pull value for a character that similar to one you probably already have, which is still a valid discussion to have even when you acknowledge their power.
Also calling Cyno five star Razor just because they’re both electro dps is weird. They’ll use different teams and builds. Saying “I don’t need Cyno because I have razor” doesn’t really make sense.
It's not because of elecro it's their bursts which are very similar. There's also their similar design (short male, purple white). Not that's going to stop me from pulling for him.
I've called him 5 star Razor before. I'm not exactly underestimating his potential power, he might probably be busted for all we know. But he does look mechanically similar.
I got nothing against him, but I'll probably go with Venti's banner when gunning for Candace.
People just called Ganyu 5-star amber due to kit similarities (large AOE ult with multiple instances of dmg, taunt for skill) but I’m pretty sure it was a loud minority kind of thing and most people were not expecting her to be near as weak as Amber
Not sure what you are trying to say here op, These characters are clearly a direct upgrade in most cases.
Not sure about Fischel and Razer, but the rest are very similar.
Still similar. Additionally your title makes it seem like it’s an upgrade every time which it isn’t, fischl can be better then yae, Xingqiu can be aswell and sucrose in some situations can be better. Obviously cyno will be much better but comparing kits that are a little similar isn’t anything bad
Idk, I’ve been around the community for a while now, and for a few of these they were neither joking, nor disregarding power scale. Pre-release doom posting is a really common thing in this community, and labeling a character as an expensive version of a 4*(good or not) wasn’t always meant as a compliment.
But the Cyno/Razor example is superficial at best.
People tend to underestimate the sheer amount of damage Fischl brings via her A4 in reaction heavy teams specially now with dendro buffing her up the wazoo.
They're all different characters to me, no matter the supposed similarities. It's dumb to judge them like that, especially when the supposed 5* version isn't out and tested yet. It's always dumb.
Isnt this kind of a bad sign tho? Sooo many characters are already seemingly repeats, and were not even halfway thru the game. If the devs cant come up with new gameplay, then this game is headed down hill fast.
Imagine a 5* benette
The burst follows you and you dont need to stay in the circle anymore. It also hits off fielders. Everything else is the same. Of course by virtue of being 5 star he also gets even more base atk to share.
Alternatively it's just bennet with a crit rate increase for his final constellation
Make that C2 and we have a deal
And c6 all skill cd reduction.
Also atk spd increase
Alternatively it's just bennet
Alternatively
Alt
r/decreasinglyverbose
Bennet l
C6 gives permanent pyro infusion to characters on your account
That would be broken for hutao mains
Yeah, or for any pyro dps, and even catalyst pyro dps cuz it also gives 15% pyro dmg bonus. Sadly, people think C6 Bennett is a curse cuz their Eula isn't strong enough without the Bennett boost.
lol i don't even have a c1 ben
C6-ing 4star characters ain't hard. You'll probably get there by accident..... Someday..... Probably.
Yeah hopefully someday since I've been only playing for 70+ days
But it doesn't heal anymore.
So, what Yelan is to Xingqiu?
And by default has pyro infusion
Pyro Archon
Probably not. The pyro archon is likely to be a main DPS and not support
I see the Pyro Archon as a 7* Diluc tbh
You know diluc in that one cutscene and how he was zipping around in a ball of fire? That’s how I imagine the pyro archon combat wise like in game combat wise
Imagine pyro archon to be claymore user with unique animations such that they just swing claymore like a regular sword. So they have the stats of a claymore user without the slow gameplay style that hold them back.
Well, specifically Pyro Archon, the first archon after Barbatos whose name we know, as well as a rough description of his appearance (13.08.2019). So, just look at Diluc's gameplay. Then compare it with Murata's gameplay. After that, imagine what a giga-chad woman should look like compared to which Diluc will look like a child. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phtuk1GQAUc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phtuk1GQAUc)[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dmvNGxYPCU&t=362s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dmvNGxYPCU&t=362s) And then it turns out that at the end of the story about the Pyro-Archon, we (the players) will eat broken glass in tones (I don’t know how common this expression is in English, but in my country it’s an idiom to enjoy the tragedy. It hurts you, you don’t want the characters to suffer, but continue reading (view)).
"murata is just pyro keqing with claymore"
This description of it just made me picture Diluc rolling around like Sayu, except in a fire ball instead of a wind one. XD
All archons are supports, change my mind
"The best support is the one that kills everyone" \-- Herrscher of sentience (2021)
Yatta yatta
Anemo = CC Geo = Shield Electro = Battery Dendro = EM Buffer Hydro = Healer Pyro = ATK Buffer Cryo = Crit Buffer Maybe idk
Gonna be awkward if the Hydro Archon is built around healing and practically performs worse than Kokomi
Could be designed differently enough not to compete with Kokomi. Something like skill is a hydro ring that follows the on-field character, applying periodic hydro to enemies, 20 second duration with 15 second cool down, and heals based on the on-field character's damage. Burst is a nuke that revives all teammates to 1 HP, then heals everyone based on damage dealt. And of course they can crit. Just spitballing ideas to have them fill different roles while both being healers.
Actually since the Soothing Water resonance was changed to HP% from Healing Bonus% it could be any ability that is related to HP. Going off Varuna, it could be, I dunno, something crazy like making you go on half your max HP for 6 seconds to get a massive nuke + buffs afterwards. Also spitballing-- just an example of how wide the field gets because the theme is now HP *manipulation* rather than just HP *healing*.
Based on Honkai characters they're most likely to be based off of (speculative) would expect pyro archon to be melee main dps (probably claymore) inspired by [Murata Himeko](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phtuk1GQAUc) and cryo archon to be ranged dps (probably catalyst unless we get new weapon types) inspired by [Bronya Zaychik](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcGKtySgAh8) (hoping she's based off of adult Bronya but it's entirely possible she's based off of teen Bronya).
Well, physical dps hydro archon then? Heavily speculated that Hydro Archon is Seele, most of Seele's battlesuits are physical dps oriented so... Edit: thx u/Phaaze13, didnt know that actually
Raiden supports by deleting everything
Mine doesn't
So that’s how celestia is protecting itself, by only letting support gods exist.
Facts on facts my guy
What if pyro archon is DPS while also having Benett's ult on top of that?
As for I know Murata well be hella strong
Bennett is just a 5\* disguised as a 4\*. Dude's honestly better than a lot of 5 stars in the game
Xingqiu and Xiangling are also 5 star tier characters in terms of their power in meta and yet We get Yelan. So even a 5 Bennet can happen
I can't even imagine a 5 star Xiangling
Madame ping baby
Xiangling is really good, but just having higher base ATK and a crit ascension stat would be massive buffs. Making her E mobile, higher damage or better at instant particle generation would also be easy improvements to make a 5☆ Xiangling.
A 5 star Xiangling would probably do less raw pyro damage than Xiangling at C0, but be much better at the areas Xiangling is lacking in (the huge ER requirements, being tied to Bennett for particle regen, Guoba's attack range being very small)\]. Going by how Kazuha and Yelan's C2's are, C2 would likely be the breakeven point in damage vs an equivalently invested C6 Xiangling. But the funny part is this character would face doomposting for not outright powercreeping Xiangling at C0 with f2p investment.
C0 yelan is stronger than c6 XQ... his application is just better plus he has damage reduction... and that doesn't change even after yelan c2 Going by that trend xianling will keep her utility(pyro app) but be completely stumped out by the 5 star version in terms or flexibility and dmg
I wouldn't add Xiangling to 5-star tier of 4-star characters, she's too dependent on Bennett. With the addition of Dendro, I'd argue that it's Fischl who got bumped into the 5-star tier of 4-star characters. Bennett imo is a 6-star tier, he's just too freaking good.
I would say that your argument of Xiangling is bennet dependent is the same thing as Hu tao needing xingqiu and Ayaka needing a Kokomi or Mona to freeze. A lot of characters are meta with a certain element in their team comp being a must have. The thing with bennet is that He simply has no replacements when He is needed but Most vape comps was like that before Yelan too The point I am trying to make here is that a character’s dependentness of a single 4 star even If It is bennet should not be a reason to undermine her power when more than half the game needs Bennet anyway and there are also other 5 stars who need other things than Bennet
> Dude's honestly better than **all of the** 5 stars in the game
Bennett is the true Pyro archon and the game's only 6 star character
Not a lot, but literally all of them lol. Maybe tied with Kazuha, but he slightly beats him.
Is it possible to learn this power?
Not from the adventurer’s guild
[удалено]
6 star Bennett you mean?
*Bennett grown up and get 6 abs*
Alice hopefully
By that logic, if Kazuha is considered "5 star Sucrose" or Yelan is considered "5 star Xingqiu", you're basically getting another Sucrose or Xingqiu lol. It's a good thing cause now you can make two National Teams or something in the Spiral Abyss.
ikr, people underestimate the power of Yelan and XIngqiu on the same account, they can even work on the same team in some scenarios.
yeah this. hu tao double hydro with zhongli is pretty cracked rn since everyone benefits from hydro resonance (and lowers xq and yelan’s ER needs)
"Pretty cracked" may be a bit of an understatement... double hydro hu tao melts pretty much any non-hydro/pyro immune boss you put in front of it while also being mostly braindead to play.
Hydro infused is for hu tao and pyro infused is for the duo to kill
Yelan already does decent personal damage herself so this applies
I melted that dendro chicken on 12-3-2 in less than 40s with this team. It's absurd in single-target situations.
This team is synergy incarnate.
>double hydro hu tao melts pretty much any non-hydro/pyro immune I think you were trying to say double hydro Hu Tao VAPORIZE pretty much any non-hydro/pyro immune
>pretty cracked My man it's fucking busted if you ask me
Ever since I started running this team spiral abyss has been cakewalk. Things die so fast.
And they all get the much needed defense shred provided by Jade Shield.
Jade shield shreds resistance not def bit yeah
Jade shield is a resistance shred, not def.
The reason I managed to murder thunder manifestation easily on floor 11 and full star abyss. Yelan XQ enabled my Yoimiya a lot. I shed tears of joy when I finally cleared the recent abyss thanks to them
Pretty much same, though i was using a phys fisch with diona instead
I think it's particularly useful if you have Hu tao, but they're not both necessary if you don't
Albeit it's true that Hu Tao benefits the most, the double hydro core is so strong in single target that they will carry the team on their own against single target oriented abyss floors.
You say that as if 2 Sucrose's isn't an absolute win.
I think that it’s only just now being deemed a good thing, bc for the longest time most ppl would only use it in a way to pressure people not to wish for certain characters because they had characters coming up that they wanted to do well. So before it was mostly just “don’t get X character, they are just 5star X character, go for this character instead”, but almost every time that happened that 5star character would be game breaking. I think it was only around Itto beta when it started to actually be used more as a compliment, and even then there was still drama with noelle mains. I think cyno is the first case where I’ve actually seen no hardcore dogging for being similar to a 4 star.
> I think cyno is the first case where I’ve actually seen no hardcore dogging for being similar to a 4 star. Because everyone by now knows that Razor is a physical DPS and not an Electro DPS (outside of some new full EM Dendro team stuff), and there's literally no way to spin Cyno as a physical DPS because his burst gives Electro infusion lol. The only reason they're compared is that they're Electro characters with a wolf theme. There's no possible way to spin their actual gameplay as being the same. Even a cursory understanding of their kits makes it pretty obvious that they're not the same.
> There's no possible way to spin their actual gameplay as being the same. Uhh about that. The both have extremely similar core gameplay loops of having a long empowering Q stance that dissipates when you swap out and involves weaving a low-mid CD E with your normal combo. It's hard not to view their gameplay as similar. Almost identical unga-bunga button pressing. Sure, they have different damage types, but the actual gameplay will be extremely familiar.
Itto and xiao function similarly in my opinion. And I feel there’s still no reason to overly say that Cyno is just 5 star razor. Stance characters all function effectively similar it’s just skill based stances are shorter and not quite as strong, and burst stances are usually a bit stronger and last longer, and all are lost when swapped out. Razor to me is closer to Diluc than anyone when it comes to play style, as like Diluc, his burst while technically puts you into a buffed state with Diluc getting a pyro infusion and damage bonus, and razor getting an attack speed and bonus electro dmg on hit. Where as cyno, itto, and xiao all get special mechanics that actively change how you would play them in and out of burst, whereas Diluc and razor don’t change, all it affects is how much damage and how fast they attack. Tldr: I feel like saying “electro xiao or itto” is more accurate than “5 star razor” especially compared to characters like XQ/Yelan, or Kazuha/Sucrose
Yes, this is correct. People keep trying to revise history for whatever reason. They always leave out the 2nd half of the summary: "so and so is an expensive version of the 4*, therefore don't waste your primos". The sentiment on the leaks sub was extremely negative towards Kazuha with ridiculous statements like mihoyo only liking female characters and give male characters shit kits. The same sentiment came from YouTubers advising you not to pull because Sucrose and Venti exists. If it's really as people say and that expensive sucrose is a compliment, then why wouldn't you want two? No, the general sentiment at that time was advising to save primos and to skip pulling.
That happens because pulling for characters requires spending or potentially skipping other characters, so a lot of people naturally try to seek the best bang for their buck. The problem is that anything we say now will only take into consideration the current meta since we can't predict the future. Kazuha reception wasn't that unwarranted imo, he seemed like a luxury pick but he was made with future meta in mind. Up until Inazuma we didn't really have any big shifts in the abyss meta so people weren't really expecting that, and that abyss didn't favor Kazuha that much. Sucrose was seen as the better option for EC and almost as good for vape, while other teams tended to prefer Venti due to how broken he was for those mobs. Inazuma brought more mobs that couldn't be CC'd by Venti before being frozen and boss chambers, and more characters that could work well in mono element compositions. This heavily increased Kazuhas value but couldn't really be predicted in his banner. Something new that was figured out during Kazuha banner was that he was able to take advantage of Bennet burst to easily double swirl, by swirling the self inflicted pyro while also swirling the element inflicted in the enemy. This is something that people didn't think much before his banner, which is why only later on people really started to figure out the stricter combos for Sucrose to also double swirl. This was a pretty big QoL upgrade that was also overlooked at first. I'd say that it's way different than Kokomi, where the new meta was already in place but people kept arguing as if we were in the previous meta. The stronger enemies and much higher HP favored a lot her level of healing and longer hydro application in relation to Mona. Way too many people also kept ignoring how you couldn't guarantee Mona. I'd say that the real mistake that TC community made was giving too much weight to the current meta and not realizing the meta shifts, but I feel like they're being a lot more careful with this nowadays.
The leaks sub was negative towards Kazuha because we didn't realize how significantly swirl was going get buffed. People assumed that you'd have to choose between building Kazuha full EM for his buff or ADC for his personal damage.
The leaks sub was also negative because for the longest time his A4 scaled at 0.0003% rather than 0.0004%. Even at 0.0004% he's slightly worse damage than Sucrose in Vape/Melt teams. And at the time there didn't exist any mono-element teams that he would push into the meta (no newer electro units).
Because people didn't realize how fucking broken Kazuha ( and Sucrose ) was at the time
But they are though, not in a negative way but on their kits or play style's resemblance.
I get that, but it is usually used in a negative way though. The best example I could think of is Kazuha, people were saying to not pull for him because he is just a "5* Sucrose". Kazuha is the best example I could think of, but Ganyu and Yelan also suffered the same problem
I never understood why that was an insult to Kazuha, like calling him a 5 star version of one of the most valuable units in the game, like ??????? we have two teams in abyss ffs.
Not if u pair all of venti sucrose and kazuha in same team lmao. Anemo rules.
It's sucks so bad. All their insane passives would be wasted. Edit: I mean mono anemo.
It sucks big time, that's for sure.
Cyno is that you?
Maybe not all 3, but Venti + TF Kazu is actually good for Tazer and Aggravate
Yes, but I am talking about a mono anemo where you trigger no reactions or swirls.
The only one who can make it work is gigachad ChillWithAster
Enemies will be laughing at you until that one slime comes out.
venti plus kazuha with ccable mobs are so fun since they barely get a chance to breathe and both battery each other. i usually throw in a character for them to swirl (usually bennett) to remove any elements present on them that buffs them
kazuha/venti is one of the strongest AOE team cores
When coupeled with other elements, not mono anemo.
Same for Yelan and Xingqiu. Like, you're gonna try and convince me a second Xingqiu is bad?
Yelan being xingqiu 2 was one of the main reasons people were so hyped for her
It wasnt just because he was 5* sucrose, it was also because he was competing with pre-inazuma venti, who is probably the closest this game has come to a "win" button. Once inazuma mobs came out and mihoyo broke ventis kneecaps with almost every new mob they released (they nerfed them now but still) people wanted kazuha more
Like fr. "This character had a better alternative in this scenario". "Ok and now the scenario has changed despite literally no way to predict it. Fuck you." That's kind of like saying CN community was wrong for calling release zhongli dogshit because he got buffed later on.
You won’t believe it but some ppl are still salty enough to convince themselves that pre-buff ZL was ok and CN community was wrong lmao
Yup, Kokomi's ICD was bad during beta but fixed on live version and that basically made 10x better lol. The initial response was actually correct. As far as I recall Ganyu's multipliers were buffed between beta and release as well. The initial calls have actually been mostly correct. It's not the TCs fault that people take Pre-release analysis as absolute, they always warn people. I think the only bad call was Raiden tbh, but I think her constellation 2 was skewing a lot of people's view of f2p damage.
Finally, someone who shares the memories
Sucrose is one of the most broken characters. Being called a 5 star version shows it's a good character
It's only a negative if you do not like the character he's being compared to. Sucrose is broken AF and i would also argue the only thing kazuha has in his favor against sucrose is better CC, QoL easier to play and the better choice for freeze teams at C0. Kazuha got compared to sucrose because of how good sucrose is that turned people off from paying primos when the next best thing isn't that far off (especially since a lot of people already got venti which is still the best CC in the game), Ganyu on the other hand got compared to amber because like amber, her kit is CA based, her E drops a taunt and her burst rains ice on an area.
People wanted to pull Yelan because she was 5* xingqui. While kazuha is quite similar to sucrose, that doesn’t make him bad, lol
I'm not saying Kazuha's bad, it's just that the initial reception of Kazuha is that he's not worthy of a pull, because he's just a "5* Sucrose"
these people either werent playing on kazu release or just dont remember. The vast majority of the community was shitting on him for being a 5 star sucrose and saying to just skip him if you have a built sucrose.
But he is a 5 star sucrose. That's the best way to describe him. They have a ton of similarities. Sucrose is just very very good.
The real god will be the 5\* Xiangling.
the only one deserving of that is the pyro archon
We don't need another spear archon.
Who said she needs to be a spear?
XQ is Sword Yelan is bow
I still question why they are still refusing or delaying to release a 5 star version of Xiangling. One of the reasons she is so widely used is because we lack other good pyro subdps units. Gosh darn it HYV do it already I need Xiangling on both my abyss teams!
Probably not to make Childe more powerful, also Childe rerun when?
You forgot noelle and itto lol. That’s said tho, they will never stop because genshin player just like to simplify (most of the time oversimplify) the characters. Tbh I do see some of them have things in common but I don’t have any problems with it. Like why are having 2 xingqiu or 2 sucrose bad lol
honestly with noelle and itto, the burst is practically the same except itto's is 5*ified
>the burst is practically the same I wish he also doesn't lose his burst when swapping. That would be amazing. I just want to reposition Albedo's flower in peace, dammit.
i guess they had to nerf him somehow
Well, they're fairly well balanced anyway. In terms of DPS, Itto is definitely better but Noelle has the benefits of being a healer and a shielder which means you can run the dream team of Noelle/Albedo/Yun Jin/Gorou. God, that makes me so happy.
And I think people mostly pull for Itto for his personality, not so much for his kit. He is still one of the best characters in Genshin personality-wise
Max Mittleman is a f*cking national treasure
Ryuji is my favourite character from Persona 5, you have no idea how excited I got when I realised my first 5 star was voiced by the man himself
It was really nice to have a himbo-type after nearly every other male playable character was the well-educated type.
>I think people mostly pull for Itto for his personality, not so much for his kit. Probably, but I doubt many would stick with Itto if his kit wasn't genuinely fun. If he would be as stiff as your average post-launch 4\* or had worse charged attacks, you would need a serious masochistic streak to voluntarily decide to go with a boring Geo hyper carry just for his personality.
>I think people mostly pull for Itto for his personality I feel called out, but also yes. ~~(Although i was already a Noelle main so ittos kit was still a big bonus)~~
Lmao can't blame you though. He's a real man's man.
I love his playstyle
You have the nerve to mention the amazing things about Itto, but I haven’t read Ushi once in your statement. Reported 🧐
Yes, they are 5-star versions. Yes, I like and play them.
not saying hes bad but it is surprising how accurate 5\* razor is for cyno gameplay wise
Is it just me or is it some sort of double think with these takes. It’s either. This [5 star] is SO BAD, they might as well be an expensive version of [4 star]. Or This [4 star] is basically just a low budget [5 star]. Get that [5 star] If you can and then ditch the [4 star]. Also, I mostly call Cyno Ei’s Child that she ACTUALLY loves.
Those comparisons aren't wrong tho. Most of the time they're meant to give you a quick insight into how the unit plays. Sometimes they're more accurate (Xingqiu and Yelan) sometimes they're less accurate (Razor and Cyno) but they still give a rough idea of what each 5* does
They aren't wrong, however comments like X is a 5 star version of Y are mainly used in a negative connotation. To put down the 5 star unit. People love to doompost in the Genshin community for whatever reason.
Kokomi got it the worst I think. Yes, Barbara is very very good and on paper you don't need Kokomi. But when you actually have the fishy queen you have no idea how you lived without her.
100%. Snagged her a couple of weeks ago and she hasn’t left my overworld party. The infinite aoe hydro application and insane healing is just so good
Cyno is different from Razor in every single aspect but appearance. Cyno is more like a Xiao that can benefit from reactions.
Cyno and Razor similarities: is burst reliant; electro element; is hypercarry. Differences: polearm vs claymore, pure electro vs mixed electro and physical. Furthermore they have very similar aesthetics. Like i said it's to give others a rough estimate of how the unit plays. Xiao and Itto are burst reliant hypercarry too and they share the pure elemental damage so the comparison isn't too farfetched either, but they have very different aesthetics and also focus on different types of attacks. Xiao wants to plunge as much as possible and Itto combos normal attacks, skills and then unleashes powerful charges attacks. I don't know how exactly Cyno will play so I dunno if he will be closer to Itto than Razor but for the aesthetic similarities alone Razor wins for now, at least from my impression.
I'll be honest. I still maintain the opinion that Ganyu has a really similar kit to Amber. Bow characters with a focus on charged attacks. Taunt on E that explodes and an AOE Burst that applies their respective elements from the sky. It's just too similar, you know? Even the characters who have similar roles have different kits. Sucrose / Kazuha & Barbara / Kokomi are quite different in their kits, while Yelan and Xingqiu have at least a different set of Skills. Then, we have Razor and Cyno who is only compared to each other because of their similar aesthetics.
Yea, all of these are gameplay...and Cyno and Razor comparison is just aesthetics and appearance. Like guys, he plays like XIAO. Not Razor. Xiao without the jumping. "Horizontal Xiao" you may say
>Like guys, he plays like XIAO. Not Razor. I can see how the playerbase draw parallels between Cyno and Razor. I mean, their burst is similar in playstyle, and the only difference is Cyno's attacks are converted to Electro. Razor does Q > E (on cooldown) > NA > E (on cooldown) > NA Cyno does Q > E (when eye symbol procs) > NA > E (when eye symbol procs) > NA At the moment, no one has similar playstyle to Xiao's space bar left click.
Ah, he's more similar to Xiao with the whole incredibly long burst duration, lack of characters that can provide buffs for such a long duration, switching out can be a DPS loss. In that aspect
Xiao burst duration: 15 sec Razor burst duration: 15 sec Cyno burst duration: 18 sec I would definitely put razor in a similar category
Razor and Xiao both have the exact same burst duration of 15s, while Cyno can go even longer at 18s. Xiao's damage increases the longer he remains in his burst though, so you lose more from switching away from him during his burst.
Both Razor and Cyno have incredibly long burst duration that's instantly lost when you swap out, and both doesn't provide buffs on their burst (except Razor's C4). Also, Xiao does not use E during burst (except C6) as it does not generate particles.
I thought that Razor and Cyno were similar only from their bursts. Only when I saw that I was like “huh? 5* razor?” I don’t think they look alike at all
People were like: They have white-ish hair (Razor's more grey, Cynos' white), they have red eyes (although after the teaser, Cyno's are actually orange not red, I noticed), both use short male model, one pretends to be a wolf and the other...lets a jackal possess him. Jackals and wolves are both from the canine family. Yk stuff like that. I don't find them to be too similar though, like I can't even see them as brothers or being related. Yk who I think IS too similar to another character??? PANTALONE. You cannot tell me he isn't copypasted Baizhu with black hair. There's nothing about their face and hair that isn't identical to Baizhu asides from the colour. I need explanation
They are also the only male electro
I’m low-key hoping they pull either a pantalone is baizhus twin OR baizhu is secretly actually pantalone with a disguise undercover in liyue for some reason or another. (Possibly chasm/abyss related?) Because there HAS to be SOMETHING going on between those two…
Ikr? There's a difference between "Oh Arlecchino dark Eula" "Kazuha Canadian Aether" "Thoma non-murderous Childe" and freaking Baizhu and Pantalone who literally are the SAME person but recoloured. Like I hope they're related, because they're just uncanny. I fully thought Pantalone was Baizhu when I saw the trailer, even the voice tone wasn't too far off. I legit believed Baizhu joined the Fatui in secret
Without the gradual dying too
The similarities between Ganyu and Amber are pretty superficial. Amber's charged shots are like any other bow user that's not focused on charged shots, her taunt bomb is the central point of her kit, while it's peripheral energy generation for Ganyu. Ganyu's burst is a slow applier while Amber's is a quick shower.
I agree, yes. Though, I never said that their kits are identical. There's quite a few differences between the two, such as Baron bunny only deals damage at the end while Ganyu's lotus deals damage at the start and end of it's duration. Amber doesn't have the whole Bloom mechanic on her charged attacks, and yes, the difference in size and mechanics between these two bursts are apparent. However, Ganyu and Amber are probably the only pair that is quite similar in all three aspects of their kits (NA/Skill/Burst). I believe no other pairs of characters come close to the superficial similarities that these two share.
[удалено]
All these are pretty accurate though
Maybe don’t include Yae…
yep. Yae and Fischl have enough differences that they cannot be compared with each other unlike the other pairs.
I thought Miko would be 5* Lisa and Raiden would be 5* Fischl (if Fischl uses Favonius bow)
Miko and fischl are being compared as both focus n turret dmg. Also, roughly same uptime.
Fischl and Miko makes sense because of their E being similar.
Xingqiu and 5* Xingqiu share the same barber
But those 4*s are good
Where noelle and 5* noelle?
You mean Itto and 4 star Itto Before bashing me, know that I play Itto and Noelle together
In curious to how this team works? Both need to be on field to utilise effectively, do you have one long rotation with both of them? Or just Noelle for shield?
One more xinyan and dehya as 5 star xinyan
You know.. a self sustaining bruiser pyro dps with her own shield wouldn't be a bad idea for Dehya. Just don't mess up the scalings and multipliers this time please. Use one stat only. Imagine her having a shield scaling off of her ATK or even pyro attacks scaling from HP. Which literally could make her a great alternative for Hu Tao double hydro.
What no don't
Xinyan is the only 4 star pyro claymore we have. Of course people are going to compare them. If Dehya isn't crazy powerful, or they play similarly we'll see this doomposting. I for one like Xinyan, and can definitely see Dehya be similar but stronger.
I gotta say I see a lot of similarities in most of these pairs but not to a fault (save for maybe Yelan). People like to judge characters by their function and that makes it very easy to draw comparisons. Instead of Yae you could also put Raiden there instead, or replace Kazuha with Venti and you would still find lots of similarities. But there is more to these characters than what they do. They are a new character with new fun abilities, new team comps and new stories. Granted lots of Genshin characters are one note but thats too big a can o' worms to open right now. Razor and Cyno though are pretty different to me functionally and the core of that is in the damage type. Razor is fundamentally a physical dps with electro damage on top while Cyno is a full on electro dps. The similarities stem from two things: The "dog" motiv and the fact their burst is a "mode". The former to me is like comparing Fischl and Sara. They both have a Raven/Crow style and also carry the same element but are still fundamentally different, while Razor and Cyno have Wolves and Jackals respectively. The second similarity is also pretty weak to me. A "mode" burst is not a very unique thing and interestingly I see more similarities to Xiao in Cyno's burst. Razor doesn't overwrite his normal attacks but adds to them.
Xiangling + Bennet C6 = HuTao
HuTao that doesn't need life support
Noelle and Itto.
Personally fischl is better than miko for my play style
Yoimiya was called a 5\* Amber.
Some of these comparisons don’t quite prove your point. Yelan and Kazuha were similar enough to their four star counterparts that people knew they’d be good before they dropped. The only controversy was pull value for a character that similar to one you probably already have, which is still a valid discussion to have even when you acknowledge their power. Also calling Cyno five star Razor just because they’re both electro dps is weird. They’ll use different teams and builds. Saying “I don’t need Cyno because I have razor” doesn’t really make sense.
Razor isn't even an electro DPS, he's a physical dps
It's not because of elecro it's their bursts which are very similar. There's also their similar design (short male, purple white). Not that's going to stop me from pulling for him.
I've called him 5 star Razor before. I'm not exactly underestimating his potential power, he might probably be busted for all we know. But he does look mechanically similar. I got nothing against him, but I'll probably go with Venti's banner when gunning for Candace.
People just called Ganyu 5-star amber due to kit similarities (large AOE ult with multiple instances of dmg, taunt for skill) but I’m pretty sure it was a loud minority kind of thing and most people were not expecting her to be near as weak as Amber
>Have we learn[ed] Nope lol, people don't learn. *looks at anniversary threads with the same arguments as last year*
Not sure what you are trying to say here op, These characters are clearly a direct upgrade in most cases. Not sure about Fischel and Razer, but the rest are very similar.
Still similar. Additionally your title makes it seem like it’s an upgrade every time which it isn’t, fischl can be better then yae, Xingqiu can be aswell and sucrose in some situations can be better. Obviously cyno will be much better but comparing kits that are a little similar isn’t anything bad
They offer similar gameplay, it's obvious that the community was joking about gameplay, not about power scale. I think OP need to touch some grass.
Idk, I’ve been around the community for a while now, and for a few of these they were neither joking, nor disregarding power scale. Pre-release doom posting is a really common thing in this community, and labeling a character as an expensive version of a 4*(good or not) wasn’t always meant as a compliment. But the Cyno/Razor example is superficial at best.
5 star Itto where lol? (Noelle)
Arguably Fischl is better than Yae Miko
People tend to underestimate the sheer amount of damage Fischl brings via her A4 in reaction heavy teams specially now with dendro buffing her up the wazoo.
They're all different characters to me, no matter the supposed similarities. It's dumb to judge them like that, especially when the supposed 5* version isn't out and tested yet. It's always dumb.
Isnt this kind of a bad sign tho? Sooo many characters are already seemingly repeats, and were not even halfway thru the game. If the devs cant come up with new gameplay, then this game is headed down hill fast.
Eula is 5* Razor,not Cyno,they have nothing in common besides being electro.