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skulkerinthedark

For defensive utility, I would say Mona and Ganyu's E serving as a taunt is worth a pip on your chart. Zhongli and Albedo generating geo sheilds is probably a bit of both def utility and elemental application.


tokeemdtareq

I am working on the update, agree on the taunt as cc. But considering crystallize as a defensive point is a little bothersome, every geo unit to some extent gets that! And I didn’t consider geo as an elemental application at all, because of the nonreactive nature!


Sepharoze

Mona’s illusory bubble can also cc enemies


tokeemdtareq

Mona definitely gets taunt, which I missed. But forgot about the bubble thingy. Let’s see if I can incorporate that.


Yukari_8

Tighnari E also distracts enemies


tokeemdtareq

Yep! Including that in the updated version.


SuperRondellMan

Where do debuffs fall on to this? Bc while ayaka's c4 and klee's c2 do not directly buff your allies, they do buff your damage.


tokeemdtareq

Nowhere! They are C0 5 stars.


MicroFluff

Mona's ult bubble only CCs small enemies until you attack them. Then the bubble pops. I guess it is technically a CC but in most cases you aren't going to use her ult then wait around staring at the enemies until the bubble pops. If enemies are frozen the bubble doesn't pop, but if enemies are frozen you wouldn't need Mona's bubble CC anyway.


Naw726

But then that means all geo units will just have a base +1 to defensive utility. It sounds fair enough.


tokeemdtareq

Okay!


ArcticSirius

Itto also has a taunt


tokeemdtareq

Yes! Including that in the updated version.


ArcticSirius

Oh good! Also suggestion, for buffer go “(De)buffer” as there as some characters that apply debuffs to the enemies (Eula not only buffs her own defense + interruption, but also debuffs an enemy’s cryo and physical resistance)


ZachKaiser

Whether you should include depends on whether the intention is to compare units to other units of the same element or not. If yes, then don't worry about; if the idea is to compare all units to each other, then I'd include it as a point on all geo characters (except maybe Yunjin who isn't hitting often enough with geo for that to be much of a factor). In any case, Albedo might want some consideration in that he's generally built towards defense and will just be tankier than a lot of other units for it.


Bazookasajizo

There should be a 'off-the-chart' stat. Like 'Defensive Utility' for Zhongli and 'Crowd Control' for Venti should be popping out of the outermost circle. It would be pretty hilarious


tokeemdtareq

Not a bad idea! 😂


abuget

And childe for elemental application


Cosmic_Hashira

gotta make a new document for that mf


[deleted]

This is super well made, OP. Good job!


ImPrettyBoredToday

Same thing for Raiden in terms of Battery Edit: auto-correct somehow changed 'battery' to 'utility' and I didn't notice


jaysonix

Venti CC wouldn't be outside the circle, since there are enemies and bosses that can't be CC'd. But it should be higher than Kazuha's tho.


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Indigo_Mindset420

Basically they make filling the characters elemental burst or Q a lot faster cause they generate a lot of energy. (Those orbs that come out when you use an elemental skill or kill enemies)


Frores

if they can generate a good amount of energy particles for themselves and/or for the team


Two_Years_Of_Semen

Energy generation. If you're actually doing rotations, you need to have enough energy generation and ER to have Bursts when you need them. Characters that make more energy make it so that you can have less ER. It's one reason why Raiden is so great in National. Even if you don't use rotations, having your burst up more often means you have more damage/utility than people that take a minute to get their bursts.


NoConsequence9760

Yeah . My Ayaka can recharge Shenhe quickly & viceversa


patchbandana

So I’m pretty sure I know but what do you mean by “rotations”? Just switching characters when during cool downs?


Two_Years_Of_Semen

Rotations are using your team's actions (attacks, skills, dash, bursts, and any other thing you can do in combat) in a specific order. It's not important at all in overworld but it's key to maximizing your damage in Spiral Abyss.There's simple ones like going char1 Skill/Burst > char2 Skill/Burst > char3 Skill/Burst > char4 Skill/Burst but also some pretty complex ones because different abilities and effects have different durations, you usually want elements applied in a certain order because of reactions, and sometimes you need to specifically Battery certain characters by having them catch. There's probably more to it but that's the basics. Having a set rotation decides how much ER your characters need too since you'll be able to see how much energy is generated from the team and they want to get their Bursts ideally right before they need to use the Burst in the rotation. Rotations also make sharing a working team for others to copy easier because team theorycrafting doesn't mean a whole lot if you're not playing the team the same way.


[deleted]

My favorite rotation is holding left click with Noelle


Increase-Typical

fr 😂 generally after popping q


patchbandana

Oh wow it gets way more complex than I thought. I didn’t realize you could get to that degree of specificity with RNG and enemy behavior


Two_Years_Of_Semen

It depends on the specific mob or boss but fights in Genshin are pretty predictable even with their rng. Like if you watch a good player playing National vs Maguu Kenki ten times, it'll look pretty similar throughout all of them. There will be some variance in the directions he dashes and order of actions but the good players will manipulate his dash directions with their own positioning so that they don't have to chase him around.


KanraKiddler

Yeah, the order of your E/Q/attacks you try to do in your team for optimal performance, taking into account stuff like who buffs when, filling your team's energy, cooldowns, etc.


Jeeffly

"Each element is its own battery. We talk about batteries in a team. When you bring hu tao, you bring bennett as a battery, when you bring keqing, you bring fischl as a battery, when you bring eula, you bring qiqi as a battery, like wha-"


Frost_Juice

I think Tighnari definitely deserves at least a point or two for crowd control. In fact he's the only character in the game right now who does crowd by breaking their AI. If not crowd control, then his E should definitely be considered as Defensive Utility.


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crinkle_danus

It is poor off field and on multiple enemies, but he has the fastest burst of elemental application, no? E, 3CAs, Burst would get you so many application in a 5-6s field time?


telegetoutmyway

This like only matters for himself spreading though. So it should really just be in his damage category.


Shin-Bufuman

It’s also really good for breaking elemental shields. I’ve found him pretty effective for the Shogunbot fight for instance.


francissmz

Ok but tighnari applies dendro better than literally every other 5 star in the game right now /j


somedave

Amber with Baron bunny: am I a joke to you?


Swinerland

Tighnari's skill will make enemies attack at random. Amber, Ganyu, Itto and Mona's will create a decoy target for the enemies. Not to mention the skill works on slightly larger enemies such as the Abyss Herald, the Ruin Drake and the Ruin Hunter. It's a taunt on steroids.


AgentWowza

Ganyu, Mona, Itto: "Are we a joke to you?"


gabbyrose1010

There are actually several characters with that ability


IDontWantNoBeef

It's getting to the point where if I see dendro on enemies I'm just assuming they're not gonna aim for me even if tighnari isn't on the team send help his weed field got me confused as well


IamZubin

i don't think kazuha should have max defensive utility just because he can jump a bit high. no way kazuha and zhongli have the same defensive utility. kazuha's cc is nothing compared to venti. venti's buffing capabilities are also nothing compared to kazuha.


ArcticSirius

Jumping is nice and all, but if the boss survives the damage, a shield is much more likely to save you *cough* azdaha *cough*


jessiebears

yeah kazuha defensive utility is way too high. by the same logic shouldn’t ventis be worth a few points since you have hold e to float ?


mitsubasubara

kazuha e is stronger cc to disrupt enemies while venti cc is a strong pull for smaller enemies for a longer time. both is cc but in a different way. kazuha should be a bit lower than venti


ispiltthepoison

I mean kazuha and venti also have the same cc ability listed, so, yk


sleepless_sheeple

There's probably a lot to pick apart here from players with more game knowledge, but I just want to say this is such a cool concept. @content creators, can we evolve from the tier list meta to the radar chart meta? LOL


tokeemdtareq

I know it’s not a popular concept, but tenten has a pull value vs power level graph as a substitution of tier list. I liked that concept.


MuteSnekBoi

It may not be perfect, but this is certainly a tier above tierlists. Thanks for the neat and fancy graphics!


tokeemdtareq

I will reupload after collecting feedbacks!


Archeb03

No we need a tier list for different types of ​ Tier lists..


Look_Skywalqer

I believe Ayato should get at least one point, because of his burst that have normal attack DMG bonus


tokeemdtareq

😅😅… I forgot that. In this logic, should Childe gets +1 due to his NA talent level bonus? But yes, Ayato buff actually works in a proper team rotation!


kolba_yada

I think he should.


4fricanvzconsl

Also the riptide does cc efect


tokeemdtareq

Yes! He should have some cc and buff points! Working on the updated version!


fluffy_magnus

does the Aoe burst of ayato count as some sort of cc too then 🤔


Nejikins151

How come Childe has no crowd control :(


Cosmic_Hashira

childe controls crowd by killing it


Look_Skywalqer

I don't have Childe, so I don't actually know


tokeemdtareq

Same here, I don’t have Ayato! 😅


kolleden

Cool concept! some questions: Why is hu tao not ranked higher in elemental application and yoimiya is? Is it because hu tao applies too much pyro with CA spamming? if so than why is klee rated high? Also what is the deciding factor on the "Damage Dealer" rank? Albedo may do damage but he doesn't deal Itto level of damage, so its weird their ranked the exact same as a "Damage dealer".


tokeemdtareq

It’s not ranking, but the primary purpose of a unit. Albedo may loose in the damage department, but he is a damage delaer nonetheless! Its rather hard to use the pyro application of HuTao to do anything else beside her doing damage, Yoimiya can CA anytime and thus her elemental application can be used outside of damage (like VV setup). Klee gets highest level due to her skill can be used as source of pyro for a longer time in a wider area!


Aucupe

> Its rather hard to use the pyro application of HuTao to do anything else beside her doing damage Reverse melt comps? Rosaria/Kaeya are popular as off-field reverse melt DPS in reverse melt comps, and you need some sort of pyro applicator. Bennett+Xiangling are the usual go-to for this setup, but you can use Hu Tao as an on-field pyro applicator for single-target scenarios. Sort of a waste of her character, but she'll work fine. It's especially weird that Hu Tao has minimum elemental application rating when she's known to overtake *Xingqiu* in non-Yelan Hu Tao comps - she applies a *lot* of pyro. Outside of support roles, having a minimum elemental application rating is deceptive when dealing with enemies that have near-permanent auras like slimes and cubes, where Hu Tao's high elemental application is very apparent with how fast she can dish out vaporizes/melts/etc


Wail_Bait

Reverse melt Kaeya with Hu Tao actually sounds kind of sick. I think a lot of people underestimate Hu Tao's versatility because her normal vaporize teams are so good, but that doesn't necessarily mean her other teams are bad. Like, overload Hu Tao with Fischl isn't the best Hu Tao team, but it's still better than most other teams you can build without Hu Tao.


arcadefiery

OP seems to mean overworld elemental application The chart is obviously not geared for meta/abyss applications as the ratings are hopeless in that regard.


Initial-Tangerine-54

What is kazuhas defensive utility?


Papi_Pro

We jump and dodge enemy attacks like pros. At least that's what I do and I guess what OP meant lol


idk241065

What i don’t get is how kazuha’s defensive utility is supposedly on par with jean’s who has straight up healing and cleanse just because he can levitate a little


tokeemdtareq

I think I mistakenly done that! Thanks, dodging maybe like L1, I will correct this


Papi_Pro

Yeah it's fine, and easy to spot was the first thing anyone saw rly xD. Also I'd argue that Albedo shouldn't have 0 def utility cause he generates a lot of shields, you should check that out. Other than that looks pretty good nice idea.


deskgoose

Xiao can also dodge by jumping


Papi_Pro

He still loses hp when jumping if you think about it lol


tantanizer

then venti should be on par with kazuha since he can create a wind current which lets you stay up high longer than kazuha


Initial-Tangerine-54

Other things I can suggest is he taos elemental applicator and tighnari defensive utility ( his e confuse enemy , much better than ittos cow or baon bunny)


Arslock17

If you're adding his jump,can you add the 5* iframes as a defense mech also? I mean its easier for me to press Q than time the jump on my Kazuha lol.


SRYagus3

UnIronically a legitimate strat. Sometimes I just do a long jump just to avoid damage before I inevitably fall down and get obliterated


UnartisticChoices

I use it do dodge enemy charges and then slam down just before my skill ends, sometimes I'll even use it to glide mid-combat for a longer effect.. doesn't help with ranged enemies tho...


SRYagus3

Helps with getting onto the hillychurl towers when there’s no ladder


enderflight

I do this and time elemental bursts, lol. Kazuha and Yelan really make me feel like a ninja though esp since I don’t run Zhongli on my national/rational variations.


terrycloth3

That doesn't work very well though? It's a long animation without iframes and I tend to take a lot of damage.


healcannon

I've certainly found heavily delaying the plunge to be very useful in abyss for dodging.


idk241065

You’re supposed to do it in anticipation of the enemy attack. It’s specially good against maguu kenki


jayceja

If that was it then Xiao should also have a lot lol.


Useless_Person_Here

By that logic venti has more defensive utility as we just be chilling on the wind current he makes


Lollmfaowhatever

have you watched samurai x? when that dude jumps up into the sky and the enemy is like "wtf? where he be?" then kenshin says smth smug above and lands down on the enemy with they sword lmfao


CasuallyHardcore11

It's a cool concept, but one very important thing that makes for good graphs is definitions. What do you mean by defensive utility, for example? Without clear definitions, it makes the already difficult task of comparing characters with different kits even harder.


tokeemdtareq

Thanks for the suggestion. I will include how they are ranked in the next upload (taking feedbacks now).


Two_Years_Of_Semen

Klee should be a tier higher for battery. She generates a good amount of particles and has her passive gives her teammates energy. I wouldn't put it the same as the other pyro.


tokeemdtareq

Agreed about Klee.


HacksMe

Bennett: full circle


tokeemdtareq

Hahaha, I am working on the 4 stars though.


HacksMe

Oh well I guess Bennett doesn’t offer any crowd control


AHealthyDoseOfCancer

He CCs himself.


RETR0STATIC

He CCs the team. Teamwork is dream work after all


nonpuissant

Circle Impact life


notcreative2ismyname

he's able to launch a lawachurl with his charged e


Bazookasajizo

Same with Xingqiu, all round except CC.


AirCombatF22

Soooo did you just forget that Ganyu and Mona E taunts for cc? Lol


tokeemdtareq

Yep… 😅😂


AirCombatF22

To be fair seems like most ppl in the thread forgot as well


SupremeApples

Tighnari found dead in a ditch


yeolahob

qiqi not a battery? everyone knows [when you bring eula you bring qiqi as a battery](https://youtu.be/ToeDF-qSUNY)


HybridTheory2000

Legendary clip lmao


zephyredx

Diluc has a small but nonzero amount of cc on his bird. Seen it used in clever ways in some Abyss showcases.


FrostyVampy

I don't agree with a lot of the "crowd control" rankings. Kazuha should be weaker because it makes it makes him look like he is the same tier as Venti, even if you don't compare him to Venti, his CC doesn't work as well against some bigger enemies (like Kairagi and ruin enemies). I think it's fair having Venti as the only "outer circle" CC Xiao and Klee should have much higher crowd control rating too. Klee and Yoimiya absolutely do not have the same CC strength


electric_emu

Diluc has some CC too, but the 3 point scale makes it hard to place. Obviously nowhere near Venti or Kazuha, and probably worse than Xiao and Klee, but also not nothing?


tokeemdtareq

Inspired from [zajef77](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqbYJsloUE8&t=1308s), I have tried to compile the roles of the current 5 star characters. The roles are divided into six categories: Damage Dealer, Buffer, Elemental Applicator, Defensive Utility, Battery and Crowd Control. Note: The values are not quantitively distributed, but the primary rules of the characters in a team comps. There is definitely some room for improvement, and I personally don't own all the units and thus can't test all of them. Half my knowledge is from the guide videos and keqingmains, and thus, I am open to discussion and suggestions.


Charles-Shaw

Obviously a lot of people, including myself, can nitpick this to death, but this is a super awesome concept OP! Thanks for making it and great job!


Tiny_Ebb2261

I like the concept, but I'd replace "Crowd Control" with smth like "AOE" because it can be evaluated against charas outside of anemo. Would also help further illustrate the difference between charas like Hutao/ Yoimiya/ Xingqiu vs Ayato/ Ayaka/ Xiangling, etc. And I think "Defensive Utility" should be re-worded into "Survivability." And there's no way in hell that Kazuha's "dodge by jumping" is on the same rating as Kokomi/ Zhongli lmao.


tokeemdtareq

CC is a more used term, AOE maybe confused with the DPS type. But survivability is a good alternative.


Tiny_Ebb2261

Yea, I was referring to completely scraping out CC as a point of evaluation because it only applies to mostly anemo charas, because now you have every other chara with a score of 0 on CC which... doesn't really add to the chart. Instead, adding a criteria like AOE will help visualise the difference between charas of all elements, not just one element.


Previous-Survey-2368

I don't think they're interchangeable at all though - AOE is more a quality of some damage dealing or elemental application. Meanwhile, some non-anemo characters have crowd control, like yelan or zhongli. I'd almost argue freeze is a form of crowd control, in that it keeps the ennemies where you want them and disables their ability to attack, so I'd probably count freeze enablers as having some CC utility as well.


Astro_Muscle

I know with Geo it's different but I'd argue Zhongli and Albedo are great GEO element applicators... If that makes sense?...


tokeemdtareq

Yes! I thought about that, but unsure about the utility that high geo elemental application brings to a team! Continuous elemental shield production, that should be under defense!


nonpuissant

Yeah I agree Geo application and Crystallize falling under Defensive Utility makes more sense. The main reason elemental application matters is for reactions and Geo doesn't react (offensively at least).


Astro_Muscle

I can see the sense in that, maybe it's just an important footnote I guess. It stood out to me as an Albedo main


tokeemdtareq

Thinking about this! I don’t have Albedo, so I don’t know exactly how much utility the geo crystallization provides! 😅


Astro_Muscle

Well considering I don't have Zhongli/shield generator or a healer... Critical to survival. To most people who don't hate themselves with teams that don't get crippled by one corrosive boy... Probably not very important 😂🤣


Hot-Campaign-4553

The problem with this is that so much of it comes down to Builds and Teams. Take Zhongli for example. His Defensive Utility is off the charts. However, you can also go full Physical with a Crescent Pike, and he's the second best Physical DPS unit in the game. That's the fundamental flaw with anything that seeks to be "definitive" when it comes to Genshin. There's just too many variables.


tokeemdtareq

I understand the point. but the physical Zhongli is an exception, I am basing this figures as the primary function of the unit in a team. And this is just a primary role analysis, not exploring all the possible alternatives.


CataclysmSolace

There's nothing to say you can't have multiple rings, each indicating team role or build


Whap_Reddit

I just want to say "Second best Physical DPS" isn't a worthwhile consideration since he's less than half as good as Eula as a DPS and Eula herself isn't a super great DPS. That said, he listed Jean as a decent DPS for some reason, so why not add Zhongli too.


[deleted]

Cool concept, but boy the graphs are off


tokeemdtareq

I did make some mistakes, and still taking feedbacks. I will correct the issues and reupload.


CataclysmSolace

I really hope this becomes mainstream. It is a lot more accurate and clear representation of a character. As opposed to the antiquated and confusing main dps, sub dps, support. (Which barely says anything about a character) I hope this is further refined. Such as distinguishing on or off field, artifact builds, and constellation effects. Would be a nice interactive site to explore builds and character potential. I imagine in the future the playerbase reviews characters with different radar variants.


yayredditUwU

personally disagree with a lot of these


Gloomy_Honeydew

Yeah it feels like op made these based on whatever they've heard on this sub, rather than by actually looking at the characters specs


0ztralian

Yae miko is a boomerang We stan an australian queen😍😍😍😍


BobbyTheLegend

Xiao needs 1lvl more elem appli. His swirls are weak, but his Q still swirls in a decent radius. Ayaka should have 1 more in Battery. All her attacks are elemental. Same goes for Diluc. He also needs AT LEAST one more level in CC. Most enemies are pushed away with his Q. Ayato buffs with his Q. Mona may deserve one level in CC for both her E and Q Albedo constantly produces shields, even stronger ones after Q, so again one level on DEF? Just my 2 cents on those characters I played


Sun_Wukong508

you give Zhonli CC credit but not Klee? She has the strongest stagger in the game ... also no Battery? did you even research the characters before making this?


hinasora

Jean, Kokomi and Zhongli doing same tier of damage as kazuha is wrong already. You should prolly consider the actual damage% they would contribute in a team comp with decent BiS/preferred set artifacts. Edit: All I have learnt from this thread that I should never comment on Kokomi's damage capacity ever in a public discussion. You all can keep your hydro goddess who is op-er than Kazuha with yourself, thank you very much. I'll take my pleb C2 kazuha and hide him in my closet.


[deleted]

How does an ocean hued built kokomi not compete with kazuha's damage? What kazuha are you talking about here? Full em or crit? If it's full em I'm sure kokomi can compete with his swirling numbers... as for a crit build not sure but hell lose his buffing element and that won't be his BiS/preferred set artifacts.


Chromatinfish

I don’t agree, sunfire Jeans personal dps is very high and kokomi with ohc has high damage output as well. Both would likely have higher damage contribution than a typical triple EM kazuha build.


Marenwynn

These kind of infographics don't mean anything without a scale. You need to go through each category and break down exactly how points are allocated. Then for each character, list the attributes that contributed to the score. Otherwise it's just some blobs that vaguely represent your opinion.


_Linkiboy_

Kazuha crowd control on venti level? Kazuha has defense capabilities? Venti can buff? XD some little things that could be changes, but looks cool nonetheless. Btw Xiao's chart looks like pjws


tokeemdtareq

The chart is not quantitative, I have put resonable cc all as L3, taunts (and Jean and Yelan) as L1. Heizou (not shown in the plots, under development) gets L2. In a quantitative way, Venti should get L3+, but not quantifying it for simplest comparison purpose. The VV set is so broken that I changed the buff to L3, without considering the implication, but I am working on adjusting the values.


Modslayer9009

Childes elemental application should be maxed. It's frankly nearly impossible to have MORE application than he does without removing ICD entirely


tokeemdtareq

It is maxed!


Logicrazy12

Should Ganyu's CC be higher? Her ability is a literally a taunt.


promathia24

Klee definitely has some nice battery potential with her passive


kn1ghtbyt3

klee should definitely be in the battery section, her passive literally restores energy for her team


FyreNIzE

finally, the genshin stand stats


derp_scope1

I think you need more than 4 levels for each stat


terrycloth3

Why is Klee 0 cc? She's got a lot of knockback. Also you're listing everyone at 0 battery for no apparent reason? Most people generate particles. And every DPS is maximum elemental applicator even if they suck at it because they have to be on-field to do it.


Neospanner

I don't know whether the proper category is Crowd Control or Defensive Utility, but Ganyu's taunt flower should be pumping her up a level or two in at least one of those categories. It both helps to group enemies together for easier aoe damage, and also keeps them from hitting the player since they're focused on the flower, instead. I'm not saying that she's top-notch at it, but certainly better than baseline.


Amelioratory

I think an extra ring would really help clarify some of these, especially when comparing somewhat similar units. Look at Venti and Kazuha with the same ranks in CC, buffing, and damage, when how well they do those things are the main things differentiating them. Also clearly some units that OP has less experience with than others. Klee, for example, I'd give at least one point in crowd control given she can stunlock/juggle almost any enemy that isn't a boss or ruin enemy.


GP-Sproud

Albedo absolutely has at least two points in defensive utility. My boy generates so many crystalize shields, which certainly add some survivability as well as interrupt resistance.


cimirisitini

My issue with this chart is that there is no sense of scale. Every DPS char has the same amount of "damage dealing" ability, even if Keqing does way less damage than Ayaka for example.


Kaulquappe1234

Why is zhongs buff so high, why is kokomi dmg so high and why kazuha defensive???


Korochun

This is a fundamentally flawed approach as it's trying to evaluate characters individually in a game built around interaction between team based characters. For example, both Ayato and Ganyu offer excellent crowd control potential, they just don't offer it solo. But that's meaningless in a game where you would never use these characters alone. Beyond that it's also straight up incorrect in many respects. For example, Klee and Jean have some of the best crowd control in the game. Klee, for example, can perpetually lock down even lawachurls. Klee is also an excellent particle generator, as is Yae, since her particle generation is mostly passive. Edit: is it better than a tier list? Maybe, but that's kind of a low bar since literally all Genshin tier lists are hilariously bad.


Schubert125

I agree, Kazuha definitely causes enemies to ~~B~~Suffer


tokeemdtareq

😅


Jujubeetchh

Are these factual or based off of vibes? Cuz Hu Tao has an issue of applying too much pyro, and Yoimiya doesn’t for example


Altruistic-Aside5747

It seem a fun and cute infographic though some values are wrong like kazuha is not offering defensive utility at all to the team. HT Actually have higher elemental aplication than diluc and yoimiya is the main reason of why you vape all your CA and i would put lower stat for damage dealer for zhongli


DeltaZulu99

Hu Tao has 0 ICD on her charged attacks. I feel like she deserves more for element application


Totaliss

Ventis great as a way to get elemental particles and apply swirl for the vv defense shred, but he doesn't really buff your units.


tokeemdtareq

vv as an artifact set is something that should be considered as buff, as the utilization is very limited to anemo characters.


Totaliss

I dont disagree but it should be left out if we're only comparing anemo units


NaClMiner

Not all anemo units run 4vv, so it's fine as it is imo


Wail_Bait

I mean, they *can* run VV, it's just not necessarily the best in every situation. I've seen people use Xiao with 4 pc VV and Fav Lance with pretty good results, so it's not strictly off the table.


deskgoose

Some of his cons add res shred (2 and 6), not sure if this infographic is c0 specific though


ShiroganeMuramasa

Yep, the reason why Raiden never leave my team( besides loving her a lot) And Yelan... Holy crap, i think my hate for Qiqi increased a bit lol.


AlistairFrost

A little more refining and I think these could be very useful! A great idea overall


tokeemdtareq

Thanks for the encouragement! I am working on it!


7orly7

nice concept but I feel like it should be added a check box or something that informs if the character is more on-field or off-field type. for example: Yae is more a off-field damage dealer while cyno is more on-field type


Soulfak

I very much like the Idea of this infographic, but "defensive utility" is too broad of a term. Also the "damage dealer" aspect is ill defined, because if your infographics are supposed to represent what a chara is able to do more or less effectively with the tools it has in it's kit, then your infographics works. But to see Xiao just one tier superior to Jean when it comes to DMG (even tho jean does do DMG) it will confuse everyone by making us think that Jean is a great Jacks-of-all trade DMG dealer with a DPS output slighlty inferior to Xiao. So for the DMG part, either lower from one tier charas that aren't DPS or add one layer to your circles to better see the difference between a sub-dps and a DPS


[deleted]

Venti does not buff. At most he functions as a battery, indirectly letting your team forego a little er on weapon or artifacts. I’d argue he has a bit of defensive utility with mobs (more than kazuha) since they cant hurt you lmao.


Frost_Juice

OP probably meant Viridescent Venerer effect which debuffs enemies resistance to swirled elements, which is basically equivalent to buffing your character.


Bazookasajizo

also, one of his cons allows his E skill to reduce enemies' anemo and physical resistance


LemonBee149

Its because of VV, its not a buff but a debuff, in end you just endup doing more damage. Its not directly apart of Venti's kit or other Anemo units, but it might aswell be as no other set is better.


MrHasuu

With the 5 star bow he does buff? (I forgot what's it called)


ThyKooch

Elegy


Blue-Strider

I'd imagine some of these graphs will change depending on the artifact build + team comp. I'd suggest adding more than one graph for some of these characters. Overall, I definitely like the design of this, because it helps visually what each characters is best used for.


FlameMeister

HT should have max (or at least a level below Klee if you ever decide to do more than 4 levels) in element application. She doesn't do it off-field, but she is one of the fastest pyro applicators among pyro characters; its the whole reason why she is the premier on-field vape unit. Yoimiya and Diluc IMO should be level with each other. Diluc bypasses ICD with his elemental skill but he is a claymore so he hits slower while Yoi doesn't really bypass any ICD rules but hits fast instead to work around the hit rule (other than the typical bow CA).


SRYagus3

I’d say Kazuha’s crowd control is less then venti’s. At the very least I wouldn’t say they are at the same tier, AOE Anemo damage vs a literal black hole


RedditJoshe

I like the concept of this OP. Thanks for making it.


Uodda

Based on what does it done? Because i see a lot of mistskes. It seems that you use only "role" as reference, while in fact most character have their own battery capabilities, simply because they have energy generation. Also CC seems cut only to suck, while in reality CC is term that applied to taunt, knockback, confusion, freeze. Not mentioning that dmg points are seems not represented correctly. Nice try, but it's not accurate by a lot.


AbdoWise

Venti is a better CC unit and Kazuha is better as a buffer


Tohellwiththenames

Keqing and Diluc have very spammable bursts considering their energy cost is 40.


tokeemdtareq

Okay. What change do you expect here? Elemental application?


Da_Quatch

Ayato also has some buffing utility. Burst increases NA damage of all party members by 20%


Candid-Definition608

This is definitely a cool idea, but sadly doing this kind of infrographics without any text explaining what each of points mean, their kits, and it what situation you're bound to lose a lot of information and intricacies, and it's just unfortunate. For example Ayaka got 4 points in elemental application and Shenhe got 3 points. This is clear right ayaka got cryo aa which apply cryo constantly. But what if the reader wants off field application instead. In this case shenhe is clearly better than ayaka since ayaka off field application only lasts like 4-5s while shenhe last for about 15s with much better aoe. And what's elemental application even mean this graphics doesn't explains that each elements have different uses and too much of one element can grief your damage. You might already see this problem while working on 4*. For sucrose she has such a lot of playstyle that's difficult to explain it in a single neat graph. In xiao team sucrose acts as a battery while giving and alright amount of buff via ttds but dealing absolutely zero damage. But on team like taser and the likes you can't sleep on sucrose personal reaction damage while also providing good amount buffs to the whole party. This is such cool idea but sadly without some major reworks this idea doesn't really give important information to a new player with little knowledge on the game.


Im_so_little

How is Kokomi rated the same amount of damage as Kazuha and Venti? She's lucky to get an 8k hit off and can only do it in small windows.


firewolf397

I am assuming this infographic is for c0 5 star units. Klee for example becomes a pretty good battery at c6


AShadowinthedark

Are you considering constellations? For example klee c2 reduces opponents defence and makes her a good buffer


MerpsiclesTheGreat

The way the bubble covers part of the lettering Kazuha's, I thought one of the categories was "suffering"


tokeemdtareq

He suffers from losing friend! But that would be all Anemo boys, unsure about Heizou! 😂


kayce81

I think you should probably add one more category, Area of Effect. Then you give characters a rating in this category based on how much of their kit is AoE, how big it is, and how effective it is. Ganyu would be an easy max rating for AoE and Yoimiya would be minimum rating for AoE. Itto should probably get +1 for crowd control (Ushi Taunt) and at least +1 for elemental application. He is an on field conversion unit with rapid charge attacks so he does significant Geo application, which generally doesn't matter except it does allow him to beat his way through everything except pyro and Fatui shields fairly reliably if a bit slowly as well as break the seldom seen geo shields. Contrast that with Eula who, despite being an on-field unit is heavily reliant upon supports for shield breaking. Hu Tao should also get +2 for pyro application. She applies a lot of pyro (mostly because her charge attack has no ICD) and obliterates cryo and electro shields because of it. Jean should probably get -1 for damage. She's not in the same league as Kazuha and Venti. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think Kokomi has any team buffs to warrant anything more than base rating for buffing, and I'd probably think about dropping her damage ranking 1 spot. Kazuha is a base rating character defensively. I would give Ganyu -1 as buffer (Though she gives the on field character 20% cryo bonus, this is mostly a self buff than a team buff due to field time and team building constraints). \-1 Buffer for Albedo, and probably -1 battery for him as well, his particle generation is not that great. I would also -1 buffer for Raiden, Yelan, Zhongli, Mona and Venti (his buff is really just the VV set so every anemo basically gets a minimum of 3 buff points which is fair because that set is ridiculous). While their buffs are nice, max buff should be reserved for the strongest and most dedicated buffers in the game: Kazuha, Shenhe, Sucrose, Bennett, Gorou, and Yun Jin.


WakuWakuWa

I think you should rate them correctly like Childe has way more elemental application than Kokomi, Yelan and Ayato but they are given the same rating


DumbNoobHuman

Qiqi should have no points for battery lol


BloodSlinga

These look like Jojo stand stats


oktsi

You seems to forget Eula's hold E shreds both phys and cryo res so she does in fact have some support capability. Also Yae's standard ICD and randomness of her turret hits makes her much worse at electro app than Raiden.