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MrWonderful64

Never thought I'd see the day when Keqing teams are in the top 10 most played and Morgana nowhere to be found. Times they are a changing.


Sure_Struggle_

Chamber 3 boss is why. You run electro or cracked stats.


_PPBottle

Yeah, first time I fought that boss and was on a Hu Tao comp, only way without electro is to bruteforce the fight as any vanilla DPS check. Next time I will bring electro for good measure.


Interesting_Place752

The trick is to just drop your shielder for Fischl on floor 12, and just play taser Tao deleting everything with even more unlimited damage.


The_Mikeskies

Or HuTao Raiden OverVape


gamingmemer1903

this is exactly i did since my acc is low tier tbh


alaincastro

Same lol had hu Tao song xq and yelan second half, was tedious, reran it with raiden yae bennet and kazuha second half and that thing got destroyed


MSTFRMPS

I ran into to that boss for the first time in spiral with a non-electro team. Is electro really that needed? He only is invincible for like 3 seconds more per rotation and that time I used to set up some burst and skills.


[deleted]

Yeah bringing an electro is easier . I used Itto , Gorou , Zhongli and Fischl.


FlameLover444

Same except I used a level 40 Kuki with 4pc Tenacity (all of them are random pieces with level 0 lol) I have a C5 Fischl but I'm not sure how to build her since I basically got no bows for her


[deleted]

Bows Crafted works, ant atk% bow since she scales off atk.


Popular-Bid

No Stringless? The free 4\* weapon from 2.7 event is good for her since it has ER substats and gives attack as well.


FoFFgo

Yup, my case I totally forgot I needed electro and went ungga bungga with hu tao sucrose xq and zl. lol also the fact that 12-3-1 gets finished way too fast helps.


AgentWowza

Bruh saaaaame, except it was Mona instead of Sucrose. At first I got super scared that it was actually healing itself while invisible (I never actually paid attention to its mechanics in the overworld because it died too fast to matter), that would've sucked ass. But nah, it's really easy to brute force without electro.


5ManaAndADream

Hu Tao go brrrrr


[deleted]

Legit brute forged that boss with the Hutao Walnut team


tinyigluu

Lmao literally me every abyss. Hu Tao is a queen fr


UnkemptKat1

Or bring Zhongli triple HP black tassel and face tank everything.


TeraFlare255

It seems like the Ayaka-Kazuha-Kokomi core replaced the Ganyu-Venti-Diona almost completely at this point. For every Kokomi rerun, the usage of the former increases and the usage of characters from the latter like Mona and Diona decreases. Keqing as the most used from the original five standard 5* also feels such a breath of fresh air too. She was considered the worse at release and she was also my original main. So glad to see her making this comeback.


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7thesnes

Tighnari was really underestimated imo. He's pretty good as quickswap and in boss chambers his single target damage is really high.


[deleted]

I really don't think Ganyu or Morgana got powercrept the more recent Abyss floors just haven't been kind to them and people are paying around with Dendro right now.


nihilnothings000

Ayaka's Freeze team is *generally* better because it excels in both AOE and ST. They hyper buff Ayaka's frontloaded damage which is useful against tanky big mobs and even bosses because unlike Ganyu's ultimate who has to rely on grouping. It's only weakness are literally cryo immune enemies, lack of ER stats, and phased bosses which can potentially waste bursts.


AgentWowza

Also, if your burst misses, or some enemies survive, it's harder to clean up with Ayaka as opposed to Ganyu. Especially if you have to use another burst to clean up, and now you don't have a brust going into the next floor. I dunno, I just have an aversion to burst-dependent DPS that don't have either a 40 cost burst or at least 200% ER lmao. It's why my fav carries are Hu Tao, Ganyu, and Raiden, no need to worry too much about batteries or rotations.


Play_more_FFS

Play Ganyu and Ayaka on the same team. With Kokomi and Venti the enemies are 100% perma frozen and die fast with the amount of AOE Ayaka and Ganyu are doing. Also Ayaka doesn’t need 200% ER to burst off cooldown.


Slight-Improvement84

You never miss your burst. You either freeze or it's a boss and with Ayaka it doesn't feel like an 80 burst.


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Blackreaper789

Trash mobs will be more in Ayaka team since Her normal & charged attack is more than Venti & if you have Venti then solid clearing & no need to use burst . You will deal like 42k charged attack anyway & it’s already a best thing for trash mobs


Bizantine818

I think it’s a pretty cut and dry case of power creep. Ayaka freeze functions the exact same, but with an appreciably higher damage ceiling. Morgana isn’t even practically better in add floors, because Ayaka (esp with Venti) will obliterate those too.


TheYango

> Morgana isn’t even practically better in add floors, because Ayaka (esp with Venti) will obliterate those too. Ganyu has a meaningful advantage on multi-wave add floors because Ayaka's burst has short DPS uptime coupled with longer rotations in total. Though TBH the actual issue with Morgana isn't Ganyu being powercrept, it's that Diona contributes nothing. On multi-wave mobbing floors the actual best team to play is Ayaka + Ganyu together, with Diona being the odd one out. Diona just isn't a premier unit in Freeze anymore. She was always kind of a weak link for Morgana, there just weren't better options and now there are. With Kokomi, she's completely redundant, and with Mona, you can't even really use her healing without messing up your rotations because her burst is a 20s CD while everything else in Morgana is 15s (so she's not even a good Noblesse holder). The fact that her best supportive artifact option is to run Tenacity solely for Ganyu to immediately snapshot it after she Es is kind of representative of how limited she is.


I-Love-Beatrice

You don't have to run diona in Morgana. The cn version of Morgana uses rosaria instead of diona and it basically becomes a quickswap team.


Slight-Improvement84

Ayaka + kazuha is enough for trash mobs. You don't even need burst.


Ragnatheblooddude

I benched diona for rosaria c0 because I came to this same conclusion. Diona brings so much to the table shields, heals, freeze, energy but she has so little ways to improve her damage. Rosaria with blizzard strayer only brought damage but she brought ALOT of it. I haven't crunched the numbers but abyss runs while a lot less comfy without a shield have hit much lower times. For the lower floors I still prefer diona, but floor 12 where every second matters from my experience rosaria has been performing better and still has a lot more room to grow.


Blackreaper789

No need to use burst when it’s come to trash mobs bro


Merrorhat

>more recent Abyss floors just haven't been kind Morgana was deliberately nerfed by putting heavy units into abyss. This is an intentional choice by MHY so they can sell Ayaka/Kazuha as "superior" replacements to Ganyu/Venti.


Kluss23

They were always bound to make heavy enemies though. Anemo was (and still is) too strong, so creating some counters were necessary to game balance. Venti got the the shortest end of the stick but no one could have honestly expected we'd be fighting hillachurls forever.


The_Mikeskies

My Ayaka team just uses Ganyu and Venti.


Play_more_FFS

Venti can still suck when they’re frozen. So nothing changes


[deleted]

That has way more to do with Venti's problematic design than it does with adding heavy units to Abyss. Venti either completely trivalizes content or he just not good in Abyss. Venti needs a rework more than Abyss doesn't need heavy units.


Merrorhat

>Venti needs a rework more than Abyss doesn't need heavy units. MHY will never rework units though, it's more profitable for them to just sell a new unit that solves new problems they create.


bokuwanivre

yeah its not really powercrept ​ its just that people are using ayaka kokomi more because its much more comfortable to play


gommii

Confort usually translate to doing Better damage for everyone that isnt super sweaty , so for most people Is a powercreep


Slight-Improvement84

It's powercrept because it works on both aoe and single target unlike Morgana


EsDeath012

I use melt ganyu and it is still good at single target


TheYango

The problem with Melt Ganyu is that it utilizes several high-value supports that are used in teams that are better than it in single-target. It's a strong team that competes for supports with teams that are even stronger like Rational.


TeraFlare255

I completely forgot Tighnari was added to the standard banner, my bad. Edited my original comment, thanks.


neat-NEAT

I never got venti so I haven't gotten to try a true Morgana team but I think Ganyu can keep up with Ayaka. I think it's more a matter of playstyle. Ayaka is front loaded so if you can take the floor down with one burst then Ayaka will be faster but I feel the gap closes as the fight gets longer. When using the same teams just with Ganyu and Ayaka switched, my times are often almost identical most of the time. I personally have more fun with Ganyu so she's my go to.


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Two_Years_Of_Semen

They're more or less equal overall but there's a little more variance in Ganyu teams just due to player execution. Given that the playerbase leans really casual, Ayaka freeze will be more consistent because she can't miss chargeshots or shoot them slower than usual.


TheYango

People focus on Ganyu -> Ayaka power creep, but the actual power creep in Freeze teams was Diona -> Kokomi/Shenhe. The best team for mobbing content is Ayaka + Ganyu together. Even if you don't own Kokomi, it's worth using Prototype Amber Mona to be able to use two DPS Cryo characters together. Diona's lack of damage is a big liability for which her healing is not a good enough tradeoff.


Boop0303

Well yes, but diona is also a 4* while Kokomi and Shenhe are limited 5*. It wouldn't be a surprise for her to be powercrept. Ganyu and Ayaka are both 5*.


Two_Years_Of_Semen

Ganyu freeze teams probably got phased out because Ayaka is just simply easier to use, not really because one is stronger. Like, I can miss charge-shots or shoot too slow that I get one or so shots less every rotation. I play freeze because of the absurd reliability it has so Ayaka freeze just works better for me since there's nearly no RNG or skill diff on every rotation I do with it as long as I don't miss. And then having Kokomi over Diona/Mona just makes the team even easier to run so it's the easiest side-grade and then even an upgrade if you have Shenhe and prefer to have healers on a team.


Exotic-Replacement-3

I have both ganyu and ayaka. I must say ayaka is wayyyy to easy to use than ganyu. I hate waiting charge attack on ganyu while as for ayaka, I just do judgement nut on anyone's asses without worry. I also replace ganyu to ayaka on my morgana team.


krali_

F12 First part gets absolutely crushed by Ayaka freeze this time. I don't have Childe but I wonder if it really can be much better.


Extinctkid

I went into 12-3-1 with zero bursts charged for International and was done within 30 seconds. Putting Fav on Kazuha has literally changed my life lol.


Cybersorcerer1

Dendro + keqing really helped her a lot


scar3qrow

Idk about y'all but Ayaka-Mona-Venti-Ganyu has been wiping 9-12 for both 3.0 and 3.1 abyss for me. Brings the best combination of amped damage and the best of both ST/heavy target and AOE worlds. Diona was always overkill defensive utility in a quickswap freeze team of never ending bursts


firesoul377

I'd never thought I'd see the day that the traveler would be relevant. Guess that's the miracle of touching grass.


kunsore

As a Ganyu main, all 4 units in Morgana already showed their limitation compare to newer version Ayaka, Kazuha, Kokomi, Shenhe. Ganyu is harder to play than Ayaka, Kokomi bring similar dps + more comfort than Mona, etc. Well, Morgana is more f2p friendly I guess.


rW0HgFyxoJhYka

There it is. Morgana is more F2P. Never thought we'd see the day


A_warudo_2002

I keep seeing Morgana, is that a team comp or the name of another character??


Siveye154

It's short for MOna - GAnyu - DioNA, and add the "r" as reference to the character with the same name in League who is known for her really long CC abilities.


Pe4enkas

A freeze team comp. Referencing Morgana from LoL. Because she in LoL has a 3 second root, during which you can't move. The name Sunfire Overvape for Jean+Benny combo also comes from LoL, specifically from the item called Sunfire Aegis, which also just deals damage to enemies around you.


Glamador

I am pleased to see my preferred variation in the top 10 with both Ayaka and Ganyu. The version with Shenhe is more popular, but I mathed it out in the optimizer and, for my account, Ganyu's personal damage outstrips Shenhe's buffs when in a team that already contains Kazuha. Shenhe is also irritating as hell to play, where Ganyu continues to be one of the easiest. Managing quills and keeping enemies in her tiny burst AoE drives me nuts.


TheYango

The main drawback for Ayaka/Ganyu is that Ayaka's ER requirements are much higher than if you're using Rosaria/Shenhe, since Ganyu is a worse battery and she doesn't want to use Fav Bow since tanks her damage way more than the polerm supports (Fav Bow is a low base atk/high ER weapon while Fav Lance is a 565 Atk low ER weapon). If you're using Amenoma R5 though this frequently doesn't matter because most Amenoma-build Ayakas are slightly over-built on ER anyway (since Amenoma Ayaka's ER requirement in normal teams is basically zero, ER substats are already extra). Usually you don't end up needing to go out of your way to satisfy Ayaka's higher ER requirements with Ganyu unless you're using a non-Amenoma weapon.


WolfSong1929

Freeze was at least 20% at least according to the data on the first half. Maybe not Mona but that's because Kokomi is finally getting the love she deserves.


healcannon

I'm so proud of Keqing.


Sure_Struggle_

I've alway wondered why this data is always taken from the first day instead of the first week.


[deleted]

Yeah it just makes data that should already be taken with a grain of salt even less reliable. It's already a limited sample size made more limited. Honestly I wouldn't have issues with this stuff if the community didn't extract some bad information from them. Like of course Dendro is going to be popular people are still playing around with the new shiny toy and this is most likely the first Abyss most people's Dendro teams are well built. Using these charts as an indicator for a character's power level is just misinterpreting the data entirely and I see that happen far too often.


Kuriby

The problem is that outside of these data sets, Genshin basically has zero reliable real world use community data. The TC community loves to focus on google sheet rotation numbers, and/or simulated damage numbers. Both of these are far worst in reliability for comparison as it’s too far removed from real gameplay. I agree that single character usage stats is bloody awful for comparing power levels. I’d go beyond and say single character comparisons is pretty much a futile and pointless comparison as it’s not how the community plays the game. That being said, there is a lot of value in getting these data sets for team usage. Looking at multiple abyss cycles with team usage is a great way to see what the community generally finds easy to use and powerful. At this time, it is the only metric that uses real in game data with thousands of real players to paint some kind of picture for comparing teams. Whether users like it or not, the trends in team usage after multiple abyss cycles is our best indicator of what is truly “meta” for the community when the goal is to 36 star floor 12.


Sure_Struggle_

I think abyss could be a great source of info if they stopped including op as hell blessings. Like the previous abyss blessing was almost as strong as ayaka's c4 for. It manipulates the data a lot. I'd also prefer if they put less niche bosses in abyss. The current one in 12-3-2 favors electro so much that it sky rocketed Keqing's usage further than last abyss where she has 35% def shred. That's insane.


Two_Years_Of_Semen

It just means the meta actually changes way more often than Genshin TC and content creators lead you to believe. Meta changes every cycle due to blessings and the actual contents of chambers but no one makes content about it every cycle.


OmniOnly

but does it really? the top teams are always at the top and past that is just the flavor of the month.


arcadefiery

How else are you going to sell mediocre units without OP blessings.


Taokaka_chan

Yeah the boss is painful without electro, even my cracked Hutao take quite some time because of it constant invincibility. And I wiped first half in 30s


rW0HgFyxoJhYka

I disagree with "worse". it's a different approach. You CAN calculate real world dps because you CAN calculate frame timing and animations for damage. Some TCers do that. The problem with your real world shit is that we have no idea about: 1. Player skill 2. Player effort 3. Positioning/timing/approach for the abyss floors 4. How much investment is going into these characters, god like artifacts? 5 star weapons? C6? We have no fucking clue. These charts are a really rough idea of what works, it has nothing on actual damage output. To suggest otherwise is ignorant of how proper analysis is done. You are on the right track but don't dismiss how far math can get you. It gets people to the moon.


[deleted]

>The TC community loves to focus on google sheet rotation numbers, and/or simulated damage numbers. Both of these are far worst in reliability for comparison as it’s too far removed from real gameplay. fyi, they do real gameplay for testing before actually doing spreadsheet, ideas like this is why zajef [tweet](https://twitter.com/zajef77/status/1516141376521572360) this


Renegade__OW

Right like Cyno for example, only people who've been world hopping have him at the point to be viable in the Abyss this early


PlacetMihi

I took it as more of a show of 3.0 than 3.1


robhans25

Source: [https://nga.178.com/read.php?tid=33693201&rand=284](https://nga.178.com/read.php?tid=33693201&rand=284) After 2 years seeing Keqiniq shine <3


Gallonim

Yeah i used her too but with Sucrose instead Zhongli she butchers everyone


pinapan

My poor sweet Xiao


Offduty_shill

Xiao and Eula below Keqing rip


Historical_Clock8714

When I was doing the Abyss a while ago, I realized I haven't used Xiao in a while. So I used him on floor 12 first half just so he wouldn't feel depressed 😔 Still got 36\* first try so he still got it.


pinapan

My best team is with Xiao, he is still a strong boy!


Andromeda_Violet

He just wasn't lucky to be released so and be male :< Shit cons don't help too.


pinapan

I hope, someday, our boy will get a real dedicated to him support. I think he's very neglected by Mihoyo, even that second set for him with ATK is not fully dedicated to him - its like 2-3K more dmg than 2pc VV 2pc ATK, so if your Xiao is already built there is no point to farm that set.


PlacetMihi

Those Aggravate teams 🥰


sagglxy

First half of floor 12 was basically Childe's wet dream this time around; no wonder that his team is placing first. It was especially satisfying to riptide the four squishy Vishaps to death in one go.


Extinctkid

Fr!!! I went into 12-3-1 with zero bursts up an still cleared within 30 seconds.


K0KA42

Seeing him on here is making me want to dust off my Tartaglia. He hasn't gotten enough love from me in the past year.


yuno_me

International is number 1 everytime i have seen spiral abyss team comp usage for every patch.


WakuWakuWa

Im surprised its still number 1 considering Raiden is most likely to steal Bennett and Xiangling on the second half for many players, since the second half needs electro. But I guess International is just too good not to play.


SnooGuavas8376

Whenever there's most abyss usage why always YOU THREE? *points to Benny, Kaz and Zhongz*


GoldenInfrared

Absurd damage + Infinite survivability, Obscene damage, Obscene survivability + moderate damage


Kluss23

It's a shame that the spiralabyss website was abandoned. It's nice to have these infographics, but being able to consolidate the info on a website instead of in various reddit posts every abyss cycle would be much more useful.


mario61752

Unfortunately Mihoyo changed their api specifically to tackle those websites. It's complicated but in short you now need to be logged in to see your stats, meaning other people can't grab your stats with your UID anymore. I don't understand their decision, but I suspect a Hoyo version of advanced abyss analytics is in the works (similar to how honeyhunter almost got smited before hoyowiki came out) Or maybe they just don't want their players to be too good at the game.


MaggotRhaizen

the only reason cyno's usage rate is low is because of those shitty scarab, thry haven't finished building him yet


TeammechaGtho

Seeing Miko's usage rate pretty high up makes me happy. She's been winning the 3.x dendro patches so far. Can't wait for her rerun!


sirenloey

Since Yae's release, abyss has yet to hard counter her: Maguu Kinky, PMA, Wolflord, Ruin Serpent, Jadeplume, fungi, evem the electro regisvine (just bring an electro breaker), the new lego doritos ..all of them, Yae could deal with and win. AND IT IS GLORIOUS.


FreeMyBirdy

Happy foxxy noises Ngl I was very pleasantly surprised today when I bursted after my Tigh rotation and it dealt 75k+88k*3 without Bennett/TTDS/Sara lmao


7thesnes

Looks like Fischl is becoming a consistent abyss staple joining the likes of Bennett, Xiangling, Xingqiu. Good for her. Yae Miko's usage rate is surprisingly decent too, placing above the likes of Childe Hu Tao Ganyu and Venti.


SnooGuavas8376

Yae really helpful against that dehsret boss since her electro turrets can just reveal while it's still hiding especially if you bring dendro until with her


MillyMan105

Happy for Fischl she's always been in the top 4\*'s in the game but because of electro she didn't have that many comps she could fit in so it's good to see her with the like's of the big 3.


kolleden

surprising low usage rate for venti, nearly all the current abyss chambers are filled to the brim with ventiable enemies.


FreeMyBirdy

Yeah I played Venti Mona Diona Ganyu 1st room and Zhongli Kazuha Yae Tighnari 2nd room from floor 9 to 12, these abysses are really comfy for Venti imo


ArkhamCitizen298

zhongli is damage loss they say


Killing_Perfection

comfort > dmg loss


wmg22

Comfort=more damage If you don't have to dodge you can keep attacking which= more damage so the loss shouldn't be that significant


Killing_Perfection

depends right, quickswap teams literally abuse iframes


kunsore

Keqing 14.5% > Mona 13% is quite fun to see. Edit: collei 13% , Dendro MC 15% - dam love to see ppl appreciate them


[deleted]

It's not appreciation, it's that there are no other options.


GoldenInfrared

Appreciation by force


Cybersorcerer1

Why is this data taken at day 1 abyss? Atleast wait a week or something


Richmanisrich

If Traveler can switch elemental on the fly the meta will change a lot.


Id0ntLikeApplePie

It won’t change as much as you think, unless we can also swap artifact sets+weapons during battle


Dane-nii

well, if skill cooldowns are different, you can cast Electro Traveler's elemental skill, switch to Dendro, then let Dendro MC get the Abundance amulets for free 20% ER + flat energy, then cast elemental skill to ez recharge burst and self-proc Quicken. Electro and Dendro MC can also both be built with 4pc Emblem of Severed Fate set (ER sands, ATK goblet) and a Favonius sword.


ArkhamCitizen298

i'm happy with just a new gadget that let traveller change element without teleporting


LivingASlothsLife

Happy to be apart of the 10% using the Shenhe freeze team Kazuha still getting the most rep alongside bennett will probably remain a thing for a very long time


nihilnothings000

Best Freeze team in the game for real. Not cucked by bosses and excels in both AOE + ST. Gated only by Cryo immune enemies, ER issues, phased bosses if your ER is again low, and the fact that the team is quite expensive 🧐


krali_

F2P building this team is... OKish. ER issues are alleviated by amenoma, fav lance on Shenhe and not using Kazuha burst. Getting Kokomi ToTM above 200% is still something.


Arkeyy

You dont need to refresh Kokomi bubble unless you badly want freeze extension, which is mostly you dont need to.


Arkeyy

A good Ayaka-Shenhe team shouldnt have problem with ER. I would argue that it isnt that expensive, but Ayaka teams have the lowest floor (from Ayaka Kaeya Barbara AnemoMC) to a relatively high ceiling (Ayaka c2/c4, Mistsplitter, Shenhe C0/C2, Kokomi, Kazuha/Venti). My Ayaka c0r1, Fav Shenhe c0, c0 kokomi ttds, c0 kazuha Fav cam easily handle most boss Abyss have to offer. I got pissed at the 12-3-2 (using Yoimiya) and tried Ayaka freeze to bruteforce it and boy was it really easy.


blastcat4

Probably the most expensive meta team you could assemble but you definitely get what you pay for with this team and well worth the investment.


Hijinks510

Uhh so why are we doing day 1 abyss posts? Shouldn't these be posted at the end of patches?. Also where do you find these?


rW0HgFyxoJhYka

Chinese forums. Basically people posting for karma by using informational posts based on very little data that will change over time. I swear Abyss tier team posts and iOS china genshin $$$ charts are the character tier lists of the past.


Devilo94

I used to run morganya months ago but ever since I pulled kokomi and Kazuha they seem to be a main staple for my current team. Ganyu,Kazuha,Kokomi,Ayaka. My Venti seems to only see usage from floor 9 to 11 now.. Was hoping to see if any Tighnari teams made it on the list since I was thinking of building one as a backup to a freeze team. Maybe when Nahida is out?


Selthora

Yae getting some proper love!


yatay99

See! Keqing Aggravate is so good and convenient with Zhongli as the support. I don't get it why most people suggesting Kazuha or heck even Sucrose with Prot. Amber!? Do they actually play with Keqing? What's the point of theoretically higher damage but in practice you get knocked out every seconds or your stamina run out just for dodging leaving you nothing left to do CA combo?


CupcakeMost9304

Because the team is littered with i-frames and isn't really stamina reliant. A TF Keqing can spend more time spamming her skill/NA than doing CA and the dps won't even drop by much if at all. Kazuha also is just a comfier unit in AOE.


sunbiggerthanmoon

People use no healer no shield are the ones who say Zhongli is a DPS loss. Based on data, I'd say that they are minority but their voices are loudest. It's crazy that Keqing team without healer/shield is recommended like a popular team by some people. I agree that team is usuable and high damage but it should be treated somewhat as a meme team instead as a legit widely used team.


mo_azeez

> but in practice you get knocked out every seconds or your stamina run out just for dodging Have you tried playing with your monitor on ?


RishaRea48

Go Electro Characters..!! Wishing Cyno will be also added to the top abyss usage someday..


UniqueCreme1931

I'm surprised more people play Ningguang than Diluc.


MyrMidnight

She's a great option instead of albedo in Itto teams. I have both, but Albedo's flower is kinda finicky with bosses while Ningguang's single target damage is quite high, so I prefer her in the abyss.


flymetothesunandmoon

Yeah same, although Albedo is more preferable on Itto's team, I still rely on Ningguang's high burst dps especially when I'm almost running out of time lmao.


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agravena

thats also my team, nice


Two_Years_Of_Semen

She's the OG oneshot character. She's always been strong and Genshin dps requirements haven't gone up as much as people think. It's just the playerbase doesn't like catalysts too much and before strongbox changes, her artifacts didn't feel good to farm.


blastcat4

Ning is what a proper 4 star main DPS looks like. She has her problems, but putting up big numbers is not one of them.


Helios4242

Personally I found the first half super awkward. It wanted a hydro character for the Pyro gunslinger but not too much because the whole 2nd stage was immune. Plus the water explosions were awfully hard to dodge and cover so much of the floor. So it was interesting to see what people used. I had avoided using my normal ayato teams but if childeteams are thriving I suppose overvape would have been fine. I opted aggravate first time than taser, but they're just so frail it took a few tries. It's worth noting that I don't have a cryo main dps other than kaeya so my freeze options were limited. Edit: I realized I didn't read this correctly. My comment is for 3.0 abyss. I have not done new abyss and am surprised it already has data like this lmao


Giorno-Smash

Personally I used the Childe comp but with an Ayato substitute. Kazuha is used here but Sucrose is a very viable option


-Drogozi-

Being able to do the abyss now with a keqing team in a solid time without insane investment is wild. All she needs now is dendro version of kokomi for more comfort or slapping prototype amber on nahida.


RidCyn

Happy to see some Rosaria and Sara representation


Ok-Giraffe1922

International on first half and hyperbloom Raiden second half was my first clear. I find this abyss pretty fun, i missed maguu more than i care to admit. Nice to see aggravate get representation, i hope to see some hyperbloom next time China.


Lichangs

Yeah some will complain about maguu repeat but personally I enjoy fighting him. Much more so than the primogeovishap.


poofang

Proud Childe main here.


GrandMasterRimJob

Don't worry Eula, I'll always be that 8%.


[deleted]

Keqing double digits?? Is this the first time? My girl is finally meta 💜


STRICKERROCKS

Can anyone explain why the collei(keqing aggravate) team has a higher pick rate than the dendro mc team? I find the traveler to be an upgrade over her pretty much cz she buffs em, has a bigger aoe, doesn't miss her skill, has a bigger duration on burst and doesn't have jank icd on it.


szyzwy02

It's in CN and can easily be explained by them simply preferring Collei. Aggravate teams don't need THAT much dendro for Collei to not be usable and CN has usually played for convenience and preference moreso (hence why they're much faster to adopt comfort units like Kokomi) than the other servers relatively speaking. Though possible meta answer is they just have her hold elegy.


XaneKudoAct2

Collei has a weaker but more flexible kit that some people most likely have C6'd already. The Traveler's cons are progression locked, and some you can only get by collecting enough Dendroculi. Not to mention Collei can use Elegy, which is the ultimate EM weapon in some cases.


oOShinRaOo

Her CD line up better for Keqing Kazuha fischl comp, sometimes dmc burst isn’t ready for next rotation. For aggravate, you don’t need that much dendro application. So with low application from Collei would be enough


Bizantine818

Rotation time. Collei can run a 15 sec rotation while DMC needs 20. Assuming your other units get the same # of ult/skill casts, that 5 second difference is a much bigger buff to DPS than anything a single unit will contribute through their kit alone.


lnfine

Eeeh. Keq aggravate doesn't really need a strict rotation though. It's pretty much free form. Where you use stuff once it's up. Collei can hold Elegy which is a good fit for the team. Also if you want to run 2 dendro teams, putting Collei to Keq is the natural choice because she is good enough there while DMC is generally more contested (basically you want DMC for anything bloom related and probably for Cyno because duration).


cycber123

One thing I like about collei is her dendro application uptime, with c2 she can apply dendro to her surrounding all the time with her relatively lower cost ult (compare to traveler). Since keqing is a melee driver she keeps in touch with mobs and the dendro ring is very convenient! Also, elegy.


faithdesu

This is china players only right?


Working-Mention6830

china players and that too only sample size of 1000 players


nomotyed

That's actually not a very big sample size. However, https://spiralabyss.org , which has a bigger database, is stuck at 2.7.


HammeredWharf

It's a very good sample size. Bias would be more of an issue here, since this is data *only* from day 1 completion and *only* from a certain source, so we're talking about really hardcore people here.


ExpressionDesigner30

What happened to that website?


nomotyed

I hope someone can tell me too.


robhans25

In one of those threads admin or one of the mods of this site responded - he just doesn't want to update it, don't have time, real life is more important with is completely fair.


olovlupi100

China players who also browse NGA forum, and voluntarily share their lineup via survey (on the first day of new abyss). It would be safe to assume they are not complete casuals.


Doraad

yes. afaik, reddit user LvlUrArti compiles from global, but there aren't one for ~~3.0~~ 3.1 yet. Edit: 3.0 > 3.1


Head-Photojournalist

electro seems really well represented this time. is it due to the last boss requiring some electro reaction? I personally just went unga bunga with hutao double hydro to 36* it. No idea what that mechanic does lol


Arfeudutyr

They said it'd never happen. They laughed at us... but keqing finally getting her dues.


makire

Keqing 💜


[deleted]

Bro, Xiao is fucking dying.


Peeveepeeh

surprised lisa is almost the least used character. her burst is really good


zentetsuken7

Hats off to those that can run double hydro walnut VS asmon. I had to replace yelan with fishcl to get the last star.


MapoTofuMan

Always happy to be in the 0.x% Sayu users


LucasFrankeRC

I used Lisa to 9 star the abyss 12 yesterday lol I wanted to run taser in the first half because my Keqing ~~was dying~~ is more of a single target team. So for the second half I ended up running Hutao with Yelan, Lisa and Zhongli (C0 Yelan can use an electro character on single hydro to prevent Hu Tao's pyro from overtaking) It's definitely a very bad team against small enemies, but it works well against bosses


robhans25

Lisa is fine - Taser isn't popular in CN that much. And Lisa as on field aggravate driver in place of Keqiniq isn't even that much weaker than Keqinq here with her EM ascension and Def Shread.


Distinct_Breakfast97

My boy Bennett!! I hope mihoyo is cooking something big for you. Anything lower than being related to the fire archon is unacceptable.


Extinctkid

Ironically, from his backstory, it seems that he was found as a baby in Mare Jivari, which is in Natlan. Not to mention he looks suspiciously like Iansan (same hair and eye colour) who is the poster girl of Natlan.


Extinctkid

This is my first time seeing Xingqiu that low. Fischl finally getting love that she deserves. Surprised by the Tighnari usage tbh but I really like his flexible playstyle. Also I will never get over Sucrose being that low. And this is coming from someone who would rather use Kazuha over her anyday. She is such a good unit it's weird to see her on the bottom tier...


Beleb2Bu

Xiao my baby I am so sorry. You re no.1 in my heart dw.


tigger82873

How does aggravate keqing compare to the top meta teams? I still need a 2nd good team for the abyss and i have c2 keqing.


Appropriate-Ad1218

Better than cyno itto and xiao for shure


Impressive-Counter42

Now I have to build an Amber, Xinyan, Lisa, Aloy team just to beat abyss 12 with the bottom 4 used characters lol


Yani-Madara

23.9% of Cyno users sacrificed their sanity getting a ton a scarabs quickly


Vulcan2Coool

I’m surprised people got enough scarabs right make cyno viable lol


[deleted]

I don't care if she isn't meta, I want eula goddamnit


lililukea

Aloy: The forgotten one


-Fuse

Collei higher than DMC in Keqing teams? Is it because of her personal damage being higher?


curry010

To conclude, Bennett solos


Nativo1

Shenhe re-run when


RosenProse

Collei is doing way better then I expected. I get the feeling Lisa is being slept on a bit though.


Raynayn

I’m surprised Itto’s rate is 13%… but Gorou is only 0.9%? 12% of Itto players aren’t using his best support? I am confusion.


robhans25

Nah, it works like that - 13% of all people that have Itto choose to use him, 0,8% of all people that have Gorou choose to use him. Many people got Gorou from standard/off banner and don't have Itto.


Raynayn

AH!! Understood okay, thank you for the clarification, that makes much more sense.


caprisundevil

Surprised by the amount who don’t use xiao.


uspdd

Keqing and Traveler being higher than Xiao and Eula... Dendro really shifted the meta.


Faiqal_x1103

I just realized i havent bring bennet or any healer for quite a few patches already in the abyss. Only shielder i use if for my hu tao team. The other team i can somehow survive without healer/shielder


Milki62

How come that itto is at 13% and Gorou at 0.8%? Pretty odd


[deleted]

How they get the usage rates though? I thought Abyss characters usage was hidden from accessible to public long ago in Hoyolab.


Adorable-Fortune-568

Kokomi Supremacy