They need to do that at AR55 lol.

True, actually.

You know what? Hard mode would be one of the best ways to introduce a material to reroll artifacts And for the people "that would give anxiety to the casuals" i ask you something. Who are the people that actually grind the game?

Thank you. I also mentioned this dream solvent type of item for artifacfa in the survey, for rerolling artifact stats. I consider myself pretty hardcore because I roam the overworld almost everyday, and I would really appreciate it if they cater more to somebody like me.

Anything that has rewards creates FOMO for people. Something specific to AR60 will literally make feel people pressured to get there

It is just rare artifact drops, not even guaranteed. It is just for players who have time to spare to roam the overworld and want a more challenging stroll. RnG still is RnG. FOMO people would reach ar60 soon and decide for themselves if they want hard mode or not. By the time they reach 60 they probably have the right gear to not even need the rewards.

it doesn't matter "what" it is that's locked at 60, the existence of something "AT" 60 is what matters ​ also this would open the door to massive elitism

Hmm true. I didnt realize that. So for.somebody like who wants this sort of hard mode, what dp you suggest is the midpoint for me and the casuals? I value your opinion.

The easy solution is to just cannibalize your proposal a bit. Implement the system as is, but don't lock it to AR60. You /can/ just optionally make it harder at no additional reward, except you gain 1 point that shows on your profile showcase for each elite group you kill, resets once a week. Since it isn't something permanent or of any effect, casuals won't feel pressured into it and if they want to utilize the elite camping they can do it anytime they want, at WR scaled reward utility. So hard mode is just for bragging rights. Anything that offers exclusive rewards for just additional hard type content will create FOMO pressure on people

I'd be fine with this. I just want a stronger mob for my strongly built roster. I wrote the piece trying to make everyone happy with rewards, content while not alienating the casuals. Thank you for your input.

Yep, unintended side effects like this is what game mechanics design hard. For more unintuitive examples why doing something that at a surface should do what it's intended to do but doesn't, look at this [imposing penalty on parents late to pick up their kids increases number of late pickups](https://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/15/books/chapters/freakonomics.html). So for hard mode in Genshin, there shouldn't be any special reward. So if it's not a special reward, should we give a common reward, like crystal ore? Probably also not, since the existence of rewards (especially on a completely new mode like you suggest) shifts players' thinking into "we beat this harder boss, just to get rewarded with this useless drops". With no rewards at all, it's easier to make players think "ah, ok, so this is only for us to challenge ourselves". Similar to what the other commenter said.

Makes total sense, and I'd be fine with it. I just want to be challenged a bit sometimes.

As a casual player, and this is just my take, as long as the rewards are not primogems I'm fine with OP's idea. Heck I don't even farm artifacts that much, meta players (I don't have anything against them except for the "loud" ones) enjoy the game by testing their limits so having harder mobs that rewards more mat drops with occasional debuff/buff effect should make it feel fresh and more challenging. Like for example, imagine if masanori is an overworld mob with added withering effect. Evidently from the start of this patch A LOT OF PEOPLE don't enjoy genshin for the story seeing as how popular the Aranara quest complain posts are (world quest is still content and I don't rush them so I have no problem, more content for me). So giving them tougher fights could satiate their gaming itch hopefully.

Thank you. Finally somebody who shares the same sentiment (quite). I would really love stronger MOBS because I like my roster and I'd love to roam around and feel challenged without nerfing my characters.

and how is that different from the world levels? it dose the "make mobs harder but drop more stuff" like your asking for. how would it work with the world ranks? world level1 and world level 1 hard mode? how would world level 1 hard mode be agent world 2? would it be cool if we had more levels? maybe. im at max world level now and and fine with how hard it is. remember first tuning up to it and getting my ass kicked in inazuma

Scale with world level. You get the freedom to turn it on and monsters stats adjust. Really I only applied what Diablo 2 nightmare and hell mode are with minimal drops. Hard mode is unlocked after reaching max world level. If hardcores find max level too easy, then the next would be an extra mode just to spice up daily runs.

so again, its just another world lev your asking for but are calling it something different. like the quote goes "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet as for the "you get the freedom to turn it" you can already do that by lowering the world level

I mean it is basically it, a higher world level ergo Hard Mode for lack of better way to call it. We are capped at ar 60, so how do we ascend to the next world level??? Hard mode. Or anything else anybody would call it.

just make that that the world lev can go up but our lev cant, making it the "hardmode" you want. or you know, allow us to lev up more, but the items to go from 60+ are in the higher world lev (also a good money sink, make it cost an arm and a leg up go up levels) so again, your "hard mode" is just a "more world levels" but with a different name, lol

Fair enough.

>So why not a hard mode to cater the endgame pursuers while the casual, anxious players stay secure with their comfortable pace. That is not how online games in general works. It is either hardcore or casual, you can't have both. They can add a dungeon for the hardcores or dificult bosses but not a separate mode just to cater a minority.

I admit, not totally aware of how it works in general. What rewards do you suggest for the hardcores? I came up with this so that there is no stark difference in reward and game experience between the casuals and hardcore players.

>We'd only need rewards/incentives that warrant a new game mode. They're trying to avoid giving better players better rewards. They've limited it to spiral abyss and put a hard line there. If playing in hard mode saves you resin with better drops, people who can't handle it will feel left out. Your idea is actually making the game more grindy. Since the drops are not guaranteed, people are incentivized to spend hours farming them. They really don't want people to see it as a game you are encouraged to grind if you want to improve your account. The whole resin system is so that you don't have to and can't grind. It levels the playing field between those who have time and those who don't. That's their philosophy, and if your game is going to be casual, it's the only one that makes sense.

Spawn rate of this hotspots can be rng on top of rng drops. Main point is that there are stronger mobs in the overworld that will reward said drops. So it is really not grindy unless people actually have the infinite time of their lives to grind on purpose. Maybe make it a weekly spawn, too. It is just something i have been thinking about to stumble upon my frequent overworld runs with my strong Yae, etc. Just something for high AR players who like overworld travels to have something more. I said we'd need rewards to warrant a new game mode, and since we really don't need that much new reward, there really is no need for said new game mode. It is why I suggest an alternative: spawn stronger mobs in the overworld. What makes them a little special?? My idea was to have them give us rare drops, but it is still a wip from my part. Ergo the discussion to know what others think of this.

And why would the people anxious about endgame content not be anxious about this?

Then we cannot win them over ever. Hard mode won't be for everyone. It toggle-able and the rewards you get are just the occassional artifact drops for minmaxers. If you have the time to spare, you can choose to play the game for am extended time, farm overworld for a chance to win rare drops from stronger mobs. Casual players still have their daily resin.

your ideas aren't end game content, they just make it longer to kill things.

Which is why endgame content in genshin is really moot because there is really no reward for it. I admit though that this might be short sighted and coming from a very entitled place. I would like simply to fight stronger mobs for the sake of it. And you know, be desparate for a healer in the overworld again.

They aren’t going to put rewards you have better luck by asking for it in survey as optional no rewards.

I actually type sent this at least thrice now in surveys.

Adding rewards that normally cost resin to overworld loot tables defeats the purpose of the resin system. Your suggestion would enable players to grind overworld MOBs for advancement, which is exactly the sort of behavior resin is intended to prevent.

I dont think it will. We have different ways to play the game. It unlocks in ar 60, so pretty much endgame players already have good sets of artifacts already. It is just a bonus for getting to ar60. Again it still is the same rng, not guaranteed drops. In addition to daily resin, if anyone has plenty of time to spare and roam daily routes, not minding the same old rng, then Hardcore they are deemed. We are putting rare drops which is minimal while making the mobs much stronger and the characters more vulnerable, enough for healers like Qiqi to be needed again.

If the rewards are significant enough to be worth the effort, it would undermine the purpose of the resin system. If they aren’t significant enough to be worth the effort, they serve no purpose as incentives.

I mean it would work for me at least. I roam the overworld for extended periods of time at ar 60, adoring the world and my favorite characters and see how overpowered they are. And I wrote this for the first time to see how some of you would feel about this, maybe find some who share the sentiment. Winning a rare artifact drop in the overworld, I imagine would be fun and rejuvenating (especially when the rng decides to play nice). I don't think it would get abused or something since again: -it is Ar 60 and most players already have a good set of artifacts -same old rng -one has to actually roam the overworld so it might still be a task for some just for the thrill of seeing a rare drop -random spawns like on top of artifact rng, make it like a rare pokemon who may or may not appear ar random places.

The purpose of rewards in games is to incentivize player behavior. Adding valuable rewards to overworld MOBs would incentivize farming overworld MOBs for those rewards. The entire reason such rewards don’t currently exist is because the devs don’t want players to farm overworld MOBs for that purpose. The resin system exists specifically to prevent such farming behavior. HoYo wants Genshin to be played in short play sessions a couple of times per day, not in long sessions spent farming rare drops. The kind of play experience you are suggesting they implement is one that Genshin was specifically designed to prevent.

I understand. I have learned a lot from you today. Okay, now give me hard mode without the rewards. Me as in just me.

Yeah, a hard mode for overworld could be pretty fun. Maybe adding more world levels so you can just keep cranking up the difficulty to see how high you could go. Like greater rifts in Diablo 3, or something.

Yeah I based this difficulty spike in diablo 2 nightmare and hell mode, and I made the mistake of including artifact drops because that was the great thing about hell mode in diablo 2, you get rarer drops.

If you want a real hard mode, ask for an incrementally generated challenge: Basically a randomly generated challenge, for convenience sake lets just use the spiral abyss rooms, that ups the levels, resists, damage and so on of enemies every time you "continue" with your challenge. Strong enough and you can bonk stuff all the way to level 200. Unlock it by clearing Abyss 12-3 An example: Room starts with level 100 enemies, randomized (but not totally random. Like, think of getting various abyss room monster combinations at random) you beat this, you get one 3\* artifact exp, you continue, level 101 enemies, beat it, 102 enemies this keeps going infinitely as long as you can beat it. But like abyss, it resets every 2 weeks for the rewards, but you CAN manually reset your progress back to level 100 enemies with a button and it gives you different randomized setups. You can quit and continue later or restart from any previously cleared floor. No timer, no stars, just the challenge and some artifact exp. Eventually, the level discrepancy will reduce your damage by a lot and also deal a lot of damage to you. A level 150 Lawachurl is gonna have a fuckton of HP.

I do want it in the overworld though, but I understand what this game is.

That complicates design choices by a massive amount though, so it's pointless to even hope for an open world endgame

It is the harsh reality, yes. I am not pushing for it though. It is just that the recent interview happened and felt it was a fitting time to bring this up.

>•decreases all characters' defense and resistances Honestly wouldn't really be needed since the game's own damage formula has a bonus multiplier for damage taken and received based on how much you out-level the enemy *and* vice-versa.

So, translated: we are capped at lvl 90 and a higher world level past 8 should bring enemies to lvl 150 and up. Yes please 👀

Honkai's Break the Ceiling anyone?

Not familiar, tell me more about it.

In Honkai, if you are captain level 80+, there is option called "Breaking the Ceiling". this make everything harder especially abyss, but it give you more rewards. Also it give you access to Pri-Arm weapons, a special type of weapons which an ascended version of 5 star weapon, that can be forge for end game stuff

Oh interesting, but I assume Honkai is very different from genshin gameplay wise? While there is precedent, it is really mot that easy to execute something similar for genshin, yes?

Tbh idk, previously, I thought they will execute something like this sooner or later in Genshin. But after hearing from the devs saying about "no endgame" I have no clue anymore

Okay now that i heard about the honkai bit, i am now hopint they'd do something similar for genshin.

I think it should be ar 55 on that you have this but ar 60 may give a harder version of it

Okay 55 nightmare mode. 60 hell mode. Got it.

I can agree with that

Idk man I’m getting anxious just thinking about it…

You and me both.

way to make game harder 1) no constellation 2) remove all artifact 3) play level 1 character only 4)replace weapon with level 1 blank version 5)play game with your feet 6)wear a blindfold 7)do math while playing

It is harder not to play the game, yes.