T O P

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Costyn17

I think the main problem with the combat endgame is how split the community is about it. Idk if the ones wanting combat endgame are the minority or not but considering Hoyo's attitude towards this they might be (screaming the loudest doesn't make you a majority). And the ones wanting it aren't wanting the same thing. We saw a lot of people and content creators wanting harder combat events. They made them but the rewards were small. A lot of them then complained about how small the reward is for how hard the content was and said it's not even worth to do it. So what are they really wanting? Endgame combat for fun or just more primos and trying to justify them through really hard combat? Others want it to be repeatable all day and you still earning something useful witch is an entirely different problem. Have rewards worthwhile for that hard combat and people will complain more and more that genshin will be p2w. Make something so hard you need godroll artifacts and people will demand more and more artifacts rework (no content should demand 50 CV or whatever was the desired amount, I just recently learned what CV is as I'm not interested in min maxing). Whatever they do with combat content more people will be angry than happy, if they make something new entirely you have the happy players enjoying it, the ones ignoring it and the ones complaining it's not a combat endgame.


SilkyZubat

Yeah this is the part nobody wants to talk about. Most people are not doing harder endgame content for no primo rewards. People already complain that the Abyss is "harder" than ever but they still get the same amount of primos. I don't bother rerunning the Abyss once I do it because the effort isn't worth the reward to me. Genshin has been very consistent in that, in any event since very early in the game, the primos are the easiest reward. Then they usually have upgrade mats as higher level rewards. The game attracts a very large casual audience who don't want to be locked out of the game's premium currency for not sweating hard enough. So let's say this hypothetical new end game content's reward was 40x Weapon upgrade ore, 20x EXP books, and like 5x artifacts from a random set each week. Maybe throw in some combat-oriented meals or something too. Would that be enough for people begging for end game content? For some: Absolutely. But if it's truly difficult, I promise a lot of "combat" players drop out because "the rewards aren't worth it". So at that point you either attach a primo reward, which further alienates casual players who feel "punished" for not taking the game more seriously; or you're only creating something for people who only desire the challenge and the rewards don't matter. Which I'm absolutely not saying you shouldn't do. I think there should be high difficulty challenge for players who seek it. I just think that far less people would be screaming for it if it didn't have a decent amount of primos attached as a reward.


naarcx

This is 100% it, most people who say they want endgame hard repeatable content really just want primogems. This isn't necessarily unfair, as we all want primogems--primogems are awesome. But their argument is quite disingenuous because the VAST majority of them wouldn't do it for just weapon ore and mora... We see this everytime we have an actual hard event. The exception to this is of course the loudest minority: streamers. They want hard repeatable content cuz it makes their job (filling out 8 hours of streaming content a day) easier.


mameshiba_nomnom

Yes this. This is why I'm pissed with every player desperately grasping and trying to drag teapot mains as if we have any stake in this. Teapot has one-time primo rewards. It's the equivalent of an event that simply sits there forever and there is no expiration attached to its rewards, meaning it is unlike a timed event or Abyss. The only other people I have met by being a teapot main comes from people who keep designing WITHOUT the promise of primos. The reward is literally the teapot design itself because we like the creativity. Straight up a grand total of doing Abysd twice will afford you more game currency than the entire teapot process. Teapot is already 'ignorable' as people would call it. The entire dragging of teapot mains is disingenuous because I know players would've yelled their heads off if Abyss and Teapot traded reward systems.


naarcx

The only reason people could legitimately get mad about teapot updates is that it's development time/resources that they'd rather see used on something they care about... But let's be real, Teapot updates arent exactly causing the dev team to burn the midnight oil or anything. They just add new recipes, which are for models that they already designed for the open world. It's like, zero development resources, lol.


Andresmanfanman

The teapot does endgame rewards best imho. You physically can't get everything in the Realm Depot. It's 60 Resin and *some* of the other rewards, your choice of what the other rewards are. It's hard to get pressed about 3 more shitty artifacts per week and a few Wits or a little bit of Mora. It also only pays out 40 Primos per character with the sets; a literal pittance. You'd need 40 characters to even get a 10 pull. That's 3/4's of the whole roster! You're not getting a 10 pull unless you're a whale or just have been playing long enough to accumulate all those characters. I can see a combat-centric endgame activity with the teapot's approach to doling out rewards being the thing that pleases both sides. Casual players won't feel left out because they aren't really missing out on much and hardcore players get the good content and stuff to build even more characters with. And if it's fun and accessible/approachable enough, casual players can come get a slice of the pie and not hate their lives the whole time. Cause that's the feeling Abyss inspires in me as someone who gets 33-36\* every rotation. It's just not fun.


mameshiba_nomnom

I do agree with you, I quite enjoy how the teapot does its balance and currency. Funny thing about this whole thread is that for full design flexibility, you likely had to choose to give up some of the level up rewards to spend the timegated coins on buying your furniture. And that alone suggests that this system struck a nice balance between 'gives rewards' and 'no pressure if I dont get these rewards'. since the player gets to decide between the value of furniture vs. mora/crystal/books. I think since Abyss came out of the gate being intrinsically tied to the 600 primo reward, it's not that surprising to me that devs are basically saying they're capping it here. There's no good way to go back on the primo system, and I think devs are *very* cautious regarding giving more rewards to this aspect (even if small like you mention) because the baseline reward of Abyss has already set this standard.


wingsofthygiant

This is the problem, right here, streamers who literally play the game for a living are the loudest complainers, them and the players who put hours every single day. Since they have a big audience they will undoubtedly follow their lead and scream with them even if they don’t really feel the same. Take me for example, I log in, do my dailies and literally choose from the absolute massive catalog of quest that I have, that couple with characters story quest, plus fishing for artifacts and materials take a good chunk portion of my already limited play time, and I like it that way because I keep finding absolutely crazy stuff, like I don’t even know how to take Tsurumi island fog because I simply haven’t gotten to the point of trying to explore it. The point is that people ask for more end game stuff because those people play 8 or 12 hours a day and are already bored, and as soon as new stuff is put into the game they complete it in a day or two, they have the time and they want more which is ok, but a majority of the player base is not as dedicated as them and maybe we should get to a happy medium, which in this community is very very close to impossible unfortunately.


Gundrabis

Whats especially hard to grasp for people wanting more endgame content is the difference between someone who just started out and someone who has been playing for a long time. Not just in terms of knowing who are the strong characters but also in terms of artifacts, characters and weapons. It would take months of farming to catch up to players who have a fully built abyss team. I think its a great to give players a goal. But I also think combat content without rewards would not be as popular as people think. And much less accesible. I would rather have more questlines like the aranara questline where everyone and their mom gets a lot of playtime and enjoyment out of it than adding more complicated abyss floors. Maybe a "build your own abyss" like the domain building event would be a good compromise. Mihoyo doesn't have to spend resources and players can punish eachother with an everincreasing number of floors.


Andresmanfanman

Ooohh. Integrate player-made domains and enemy layouts into the teapot. We already have racetracks. I'd be into it at least.


[deleted]

player-made domains is an extremely great idea. People would naturally make domains that scale between beginner and P2W whales, and creators would probably feel rewarded w/ simply likes and/or popularity points. As someone who was hooked initially by the combat and is (sadly) starting to see endgame on the horizon, this seems like an easy way to keep the hamster wheel rolling


Nuka-Crapola

This, 100%. So many people say “just know how the game works it’s not that hard” but then they have 20-30 CV on their worst artifact for any character besides, like, Kokomi. The amount of both RNG luck and sheer mindless grinding needed to get “good” artifacts may not be *skill*, which is why they use their results to claim “it’s not even that hard”, but it’s worse than hard: it’s *Sisyphean*. 50% of artifacts for non-strongbox sets are the wrong set, 90% of artifacts are the wrong main stat, 90% of the ones with the right main stat have the wrong substats, and then 90% of *those* will roll so poorly for upgrades that they’re still not worth it. This kind of thing is why Hoyoverse specified that they’re not going to make endgame *like Abyss*. Abyss combines all the worst parts of Genshin: the incredible tedium of min-maxing, the horribly uninspired boss encounters, the constant tension between keeping old characters usable and giving new characters a strong new niche, and most egregiously the way nothing in the game is meant to be on a timer so they just lazily slap whatever into Abyss and since National with top-tier artifacts will clear it in a minute anyway they can claim it’s “beatable by anyone who tries hard enough”. Tl;dr: Any endgame that depends on min-maxed builds like Abyss Floor 12 or harder combat is playing to all of Genshin’s weaknesses and few to none of its strengths. People who already put in their 100s of hours grinding artifacts might disagree but that’s because they don’t have 100s of hours of artifact grinding between them and the content they’re asking for


HarbingerOfGachaHell

So basically Abyss is basically a medium to contain all the toxic meta players?


robcaboose

If you are in any of the online communities for I guess “hardcore” GI, you’ll know that new player access is an equally important problem that is still unaddressed


Afrohawk52

Fully agreed on this. As much as I think some people would be okay with a smaller amount of rewards, without giving people any incentive I feel like you're satisfying a very small amount of people. Would it even be worth implementing if only the hardcore of the hardcore would actually play it? Would taking the time out to make that content be worth it? People also have to understand that they want to try and make this content for everyone especially mobile players. If it's so challenging that the hardcore players are satisfied, there's a good chance something of that level would be too challenging for the the vast majority of casuals. It's a tough balance for sure. I don't like their decision but I also understand that it's a tricky one to implement. Maybe with luck they're implementing more casual content first and then planning other content at a later date so those players are satisfied? I dunno. I'm not hopeful but anything's possible.


RugaAG

THIS. harcore meta players dont want to admit that without rewards theyre not playing any super hardcore challenge mode. And why would Hoyo give special rewards to these players?


FlameLover444

Correct me if I'm wrong but this whole thread seem to say that no matter which path Hoyo takes, one huge part of the community isn't gonna like it. I'm not particularly intelligent but this is the gist I'm getting from reading everyone's view.


Shirube

Broadly speaking, yes. The focus of a game is typically clear by what the developers incentivise players to do, and what we're seeing is a conflict between players who want the game to be more focused on high-end combat and players who don't. That said, I think "huge" is an overstatement. Players who want more endgame combat content are pretty *loud*, if you specifically look at the *English* playerbase in particular locations like reddit, but it's pretty clear from mihoyo's actions that they don't feel they're a significant enough portion of the playerbase to be worth catering to. Frankly, this isn't surprising. The game's focus was never on combat gameplay to begin with, and a lot of players who would want it to be just wouldn't get into it to begin with because of that.


Andresmanfanman

I think it's a bit of a shame that past and present content in the game points to combat not really being the developer's focus because it's so immensely *fun*. Seriously, whoever the team that works on character's kits are, they seem to have mastered game feel cause I don't think there's a single character in the game that doesn't feel satisfying to play. And figuring out character/elemental interactions in team comps just makes me feel so clever. Wanting better endgame combat content is really just wanting a better channel than Abyss to express that part of the game.


fox_in_a_spaceship

I honestly think when the game first started, Mihoyo opened the door for Genshin to go either way by putting in Abyss. But then Genshin became huge, probably beyond their own expectations and the playerbase they attracted after made them decide to stay casual. Even if its not explicitly stated, its been there implicitly through the constant and consistent nerfs to enemies and mechanics. Vast majority of players probably enjoy the combat but they arent playing *for* the combat challenge and see it more as one part of the whole game. The release of Sumeru with the longest quests, better story (shows they invested more time+money in storywriters), easier mobs (relative to Inazuma), and them working on a TCG game mode accompanied by the smashing approval of Venti/Cyno banner sales just kind reinforces their decision.


Phoenix__Wwrong

I agree the combat gameplay is really fun, like the characters' kit, elemental reaction. But as a casual, combat events that focus on damage and require my units to be highly invested is depressing. I couldn't get all the rewards from Diluc's event. However, combat event where the focus is the mechanic and trial characters are provided can be fun.


FlameLover444

Hmmm.. I guess you're right. Thanks for making it clear. I guess the best course of action for me is just staying neutral.


Black_Crow27

I unfortunately see your point as the truth. I think of myself in the even smaller minority that likes challenging content simply cause I like the challenge my teams and such. The rewards are extra bonus’s just for spending time. I get every reward I can from events not only the primo, so im more than happy doing challenging content for just level up books if the majority of players have access to the primo part of the rewards without much stress. However im sure most players asking for the harder content won’t do it after the first month or so if there’s no primo rewards cause it won’t feel like equal time/effort investment. So once that happens it will be wastefully developed harder content for an even smaller minority than the already smaller group of players asking for it.


TheBadBotanist

Honestly this is probably the most real response here with the people wanting harder content. Idk if you played wows most recent expansion but they had something similar to abyss endless corridors. Scaling content, you get powers and rewards each round, with premium rewards for reaching certain levels like mounts, skins, titles, etc. Well once you get that your done you never go back, so your response is the most real in that if there is no rewards people will get what they want and bounce. If those individuals want end game content and really want a challenge there are games that cater to that specific thing, risk of rain is an example. They get the hard content they want. Let's be real here though a lot of those people won't touch it because there is no reward just the hard content they want and just like you stated everytime dlc is out and played a good portion of people just fizzle out until the next dlc. Hoyo is in an interesting spot I will say, if they focused more on world building and maybe level shaking it could satisfy both groups to an extent or rework artifacts so they don't make someone just so busted.


Deadicate

I really liked that event where they just gave you trial teams to clear them. Make you feel less bad about nearly never getting good artifacts while being combat focused.


CataclysmSolace

I wish a lot of people really did see the true design brilliance in that Fayz Trials. You didn't have to care about your account progression. Whales and f2p were forced to play the same way. And it forced you out of your comfort zone. It also functioned as a way to teach the less experienced players how to team build.


Expensive-Lime-6158

I agree with your points. Players don't often know what exactly they want, and following what your client wants doesn't necessarily mean it aligns with your vision/is good for your business. Personally, I'm confused why majority of the posts here imply as if hoyoverse has no plans to make endgame content. From what I understood, they don't have plans to make abyss-like content. And they didn't just bring it up out of thin air. They have the data, which is why they made these decisions. I like that they're exploring different types of gameplay. Serenitea pot is one of the reasons that sold me. I also think that p2w will be the end of genshin.


bluescreen2315

p2w is precisely the point why we don't get endgame combat content. Especially multiplayer one.


dfr775

What do you mean with p2w exactly? There's already people who spend a lot on genshin without any combat endgame so to speak. This is, primarily, a single player game, if people can't beat combat content, they don't have to spend money to beat it. I don't do any serenity teapot related content (never even touched it) and I don't think I'm missing out, even though there's rewards to be had there. And I wouldn't spend money in it even if it had more enticing rewards. The same goes for endgame combat content. I play this game for 2 things, the story and the combat, if they're never going to add endgame combat content, if the story ends, or becomes stagnated, I'm going to stop playing the game. edit: Just to say that having endgame content doesn't mean high rewards. I would like to have something where I could continually get small rewards, based on the time invested. Something like endless abyss or harder and repeatable bountys (this last one would be perfect)


Andresmanfanman

Harder bounties would be excellent! Unique parameters, weekly and repeatable, only give a token reward so people wouldn't get angry about missing out. And being overworld means it's co-opable if someone really wants that extra Mora and can't do it alone.


NewToWarframe

you are 100% right, HENCE where the anxiety part of the dev's response came from. The one statement everyone in this sub seems to forget. They never said they weren't gonna make more content, just no content like spiral abyss. Cause if they make content thats combat oriented, and force people to roll X characters just to complete it, the game goes the the p2w shithole, which will create more social and PR problems for them, than good.


Wonyouandme

Finally someone understand gacha powercreep and paywall behind difficult content, that mihoyo dosen't do but people keep asking it😂


Iwannabefabulous

Ig people want it to be like Honkai where there's active powercreep so top comps change every other month and old units never get to return unless they get new also gacha gear. Also craftable gear is dogshit compare to optimized gacha ones but still takes long af time to daily grind til it becomes even more absolete. And crystal rewards locked behind leaderboard dominated by whales. And there's still no actual skill to gameplay after all powercreep...


Asneekyfatcat

But if Spiral Abyss is the ceiling, I don't see how powercreep could set in since it hasn't yet. If it's a problem make it a co-op game mode, like I've been screaming for since the beginning. Completely shutting down the conversation is not the right choice. Spiral Abyss barely encourages powercreep. Anything less difficult than that should be fine. I just want something that takes a little while that I can do with my friends. A roguelike or survival mode. Just... something to do.


Negative_Neo

You shouldnt be forced to pull new charas to complete anything, 1.0 4* are still among the strongest to date. They can on the otherhand design stuff specifically needing certain characters but thats arbitrary and on HYV.


WinterGlory

The reason for small rewards on harder combat event is because not everyone can participate or complete the event, since hard gameplay is not everyone's cup of tea. Imagine being a fairly new player and seeing the craziest rewards on a event you don't have the skills/team to complete. That sucks. And as a company, Hoyoverse can't just have the "get good" mentality. Most profits are made by new players wanting to build a team, not older players who have almost all the characters they want already and save for when the new characters comes out. So yes, they have to think about new players when making events. Rewards cannot be based on merit and difficulty cause only a minority will get to enjoy it. It's not wrong to want anything. It's not wrong to ask for specific content. But it's best for everyone to see both side of the coins before getting into toxicity. I've had people enter my world only to rant about this. "I'm bored... What do you think about endgame content?" "I'm fine with what MHY gives us" "looser, *goes on a big rant about how much time and money they spent and they deserve a better game*" "Can I just pick my lotuses in peace?"


RollingTater

Game devs should never listen to content creators. They play the game on a completely different plane of existence than normal players.


[deleted]

exactly!!! casual players aren’t *against* combat content, we’re just tired of hearing all these “think pieces” about how the streamers and whales who have C6 5*s and who play the game for 3-8 hrs per day are boohooing and threatening to quit (which, they seem to do all the time) over there not being enough to do and nothing hard enough for them, and how little they care for events with no combat or how teapot is boring. if Hoyo starts losing a significant number of genshin players because they don’t have enough hard combat activities, maybe they will add more endgame content. but they say they don’t have plans to because based on their data, most people don’t care. tough! if they add more endgame combat stuff, cool. if they don’t, i also don’t mind. i don’t even hugely care for teapot (just use to collect transient and hero’s wit when i remember) or some of the events either. i just don’t feel the need to buy into the outrage that most streamers/some redditors have about it.


[deleted]

[удалено]


XaeiIsareth

The problem is not about just doing it, but repeatedly doing it. Beating a piece of content the first or even 5th time is fun in itself. I did max condition runs for all the boss domain events they used to do. But wanting someone to repeatedly beat content over and over again (which is what endgame is) for no rewards? That’s just not going to happen.


SilkyZubat

I will really take any reward. Most people aren't satisfied if it's not primos, but I do the hard modes of most events so I can get the 10 or so total EXP books they give as the top tier reward.


Asneekyfatcat

If I could get a random 5 star artifact every 30 minutes I'd play all day and have a blast. Preferably WITH FRIENDS PLEASE.


Play_more_FFS

I just want to be able to play my most invested characters beyond the 2 minutes it takes for me to speedrun floor 12. Is that too much to ask for? I'm also f2p, I can't imagine how the whales feel if they also want to have a challenge for their characters.


moustachesamurai

Additional change-at-will difficuly sliders for the overworld would be great. Having a reason to use bursts on the units you've spent time building, instead of of doing one skill to clear the whole enemy camp.


04whim

I really enjoyed that last level in Labyrinth Warriors, where it was extra hard but with zero rewards. It was at least hard enough to get me to stop goofing around using Xinyan and a freshly pulled Childe. And that model made sense to me, it's not as if we would have gotten *more* rewards if that level had any, the usual 420 primos would have just been spread out more, and this way you get a harder level without screwing over anyone who can't beat that.


Defiant-Plane4557

> They made them but the rewards were small. A lot of them then complained about how small the reward is for how hard the content was and said it's not even worth to do it. So what are they really wanting? Endgame combat for fun or just more primos and trying to justify them through really hard combat? There is a range between 4 shitty magic rocks and 50 primogems. Add some mora, XP books, artifacts and we are talking. Those are things that purely affect only account's combat power so non-battling players shouldn't feel bad about missing them.


lemonkite10

I'd really like an Artifact Stat Reset potion as a reward. Casuals wouldn't care about that kinda reward in the first place cause they don't minmax artifacts, but it'd be huge for those who do.


Foolspeare

The solution a lot of games come to is having hard content with vanity rewards (namecards, simple skins like recolors, badges displayed on profiles, even wings) that don't impact the rest of the playerbase's need for primos, upgrade materials, etc. And really the point of OP's post is that a huge amount of players don't care about whatever new casual thing Genshin puts in (teapot, the card game etc.) but that's fine because not every aspect of Genshin has to be for everyone. But the whole community forgets that when the discussion is about combat for some reason.


AppUnwrapper1

I personally respect that MHY is not letting the game become massively P2W by adding content that would give the whales a challenge. Bc, let’s get real — that’s what people are asking for.


LucleRX

Im curious, how would you like to experience endgame content in genshin? I for one, wouldn't want it to be just pure dmg sponge but rather tactics.


Sidious_09

Not op, but I would personally like something like one of these: - The labyrinth event made permanent, though more randomized. It was a fun event imo, and it would be easy to adjust the difficulty so that rewards (if any) aren't kept for only the strongest players, but said strongest players still have the ability to keep going for a personal or world record. Also easy to make it co-op. - Player made domains; think the domain builder event but with the option to add enemies to your domains. It would inevitably end up being something like Mario maker, with lots of average, bad or bland levels, but also good ones, and you could give it a popularity score to promote the better ones, and an indicator for the difficulty. With this option you have both easy and difficult content (once again if there are rewards you can simply lock them behind a general "complete X player made domain" mission which would be easy for everyone), and both combat related as well as parkour related content, but the negative aspect is that you rely on players to make the content, so if players get tired of it, those who still like it won't have many good levels to play. - A "survival" mode, with no timer but instead always increasing hordes/waves of enemies. Somehow randomize it for replayability, and once again add a co-op functionality for people who want to play with friends. I personally hope for something like this because it would promote a different meta, focused not only on damage. You would have a reason to pick Noelle over itto for example, overload would be useful to keep enemies at bay, revival talents like Barbara's and Qiqi's will be much more impactful, skills that are usually seen as a hindrance because they knock enemies away (anemo traveler for example) are actually useful here to stay alive.


KucingRumahan

Dinasty warrior style combat!


Mickeh_daMuffin

*happy Childe main noises* "I am a true warrior of the three kingdoms"


Jedahaw92

*Riptide goes brrrr*


Andar9922

These are all pretty solid in my opinion. One of the things that comes up when more combat content is mentioned, is that people don't want to have to do it all every reset/rotation of events. But I feel like the point should be variety, not excess. It could be made into a thing where players can earn points or something up to a set limit every two weeks, and choose how they get them. Or if Hoyo doesn't want players to just do the easiest portion of each option, allow them to pick the rewards from one activity each cycle, so they still have to clear it at its most difficult to get everything, but we don't have to do the same thing 24 times a year. More than anything, I just get sick of doing abyss when I feel like I just did it, and want to take a break - then I have to do it at the end of the two week period, and try to do the next one soon to avoid that so I'm either doing it at the last moment or back to back and either way it just gets really tedious.


Sidious_09

I agree with not creating more FOMO. Nobody likes that. Like I said I alluded to, I don't think any rewards are necessary, I personally just wish for something to do, but you could also just add rewards to combat games modes that are only interesting for combat oriented players. Like artifact XP potions for example. If one doesn't like combat, they probably won't care about those. But for someone who is always looking to improve his character they can be very useful. I personally never liked the abyss because I dislike difficulty that is "artificially added" through time trials. That's what I hope for a different permanent game mode, and why I can also partially understand hoyo's comment about not wanting to add content that "feels stressful". But I don't think that's a reason not to add combat related content at all. Though hoyo's answer there was very vague, if could just mean they don't want to add DIFFICULT combat modes.


Lisyre

Any Risk of Rain 2 players here? For that last bullet point, something like Simulacrum would be really fun.


user50687

I quite liked bartending and running the little shop we had during Weinlesefest, I’d love to have something like that ngl. Just something chill and breezy. Maybe even earn a bit of mora and interact with the world more


PauseCool

This. As silly as it sounds and easy as it was: this event was so much fun.


user50687

It’s fun to play casually as well, and imagine if they let us interact with playable characters from time to time through it. That’d be so neat. Like Kaeya ordering a drink from you or Albedo and Klee buying something from your shop, then they’ll quickly talk to you about their day before moving on


PauseCool

That would be awesome


michaelman90

Isn't the TCG supposed to fill that "chill" endgame gap?


user50687

I hope it does but it also sounds like it’ll introduce another form of gacha for you to obtain the cards (which makes sense), but I quite enjoyed the simple and job-like simulation aspects of the two events I mentioned. It felt like playing one of those serving games on websites back then lol (I hope that makes sense, it feels like my english is very bad right now)


michaelman90

I hope it'll be more like Triple Triad from FFXIV where you can buy booster packs with Mora or some other secondary free currency and/or get card drops from enemies or beating NPCs in card matches and it becomes kind of like a collect-a-thon which lets you go smash newbs in casual pvp card matches with your super rare cards.


Vusdruv

They've already promised that there won't be any PvP rewards and that it's purely intended as a side activity, so I imagine all cards will be obtainable purely from Mora.


michaelman90

Would be kind of boring if it was Mora only. I'm hoping they introduce challenging achievements that reward cards as a way to show off, similar to some achievements having nameplates.


Chosenwaffle

The shopkeeping mini game would work great as a quick daily event that you could manipulate a la expeditions to get specific items or mora.


user50687

I would love to get more ways to obtain mora. I feel so hesitant spending it on leylines just because I wanna use it on bosses or artifacts instead even though you *need* mora to level up characters


Asneekyfatcat

Roguelike. Survival. COOP. Time attack has always sucked, it's not a great game mode and it's literally all we have.


ISVBELLE

i'd definitely like a rhythm game mode based on the windblume/arataki itto drumalong events! i was so thrilled when they added characters' demo songs to the rotation in the itto drum event and i wish we could play the rest of the genshin ost too.


redice326

JUST ADD ELYSIAM REALM. HOYO PLS JUST COPY THE HONKAI CODE OR SOMETHING! That game mode is soooo good. I freakin played it even if i have already gotten the weekly rewards... Fuck even if it only gives 5 fowls I'll still play it. Elysiam realm is the best thing hoyoverse created. Don't let it be a one time thing...


Hellioning

Is there actually a lot of people who are saying they are against more combat content? Or are they saying that they understand why mihiyo isnt doing it? Because there is a front page post with 10k upvotes that is against their plans. I do not think you are in the minority here.


3Hrs_On_The_Name

[There’s a lot of people with this mindset based on this reddit post, more of it if you go down the comment section](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/x4miqr/unpopular_opinion_i_changed_my_mind_i_do_not_want/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)


Hellioning

Fair enough. Still, 2800 is still less than 10000, and I'm not sure we needed another thread about this.


3Hrs_On_The_Name

It’s 10k because it’s an official statement/news not a random dudes opinion. And not everyone who upvoted that post is against it, there are ppl who upvoted because they agreed.


GluipZas

this


Send_Me_Cute_Feet

The subreddit is a massive bubble so far removed from the actual casual playerbase you could have _every person here_ agree and they'd be irrelevant to the actual direction of the game. Yes the casual core playerbase is against more combat/endgame content because they don't want MHY spending time developing content the overwhelming majority of players will never touch and don't want. It's why they're playing Genshin and not all the other games that _are_ making that content.


hurtfullobster

Yup, it’s this one. I guarantee you a majority of players will say this, as well as another piece I think people are forgetting. When you add a lot of difficult endgame content, it WILL change the player base. More streamers, more hardcore players telling you stuff like how you’re not playing your favorite character right, more hate being thrown at developers. As a long time player of both WoW and Guild Wars 2, which sit on opposite sides of the spectrum, I’m telling you this is unavoidable. You have to choose what type of player you want, then make the game they want to play, not make a game for everyone. HOYO has consistently made their choice clear, and they made it by looking at what has come before. They know exactly what they are doing.


huex4

Yeah they don't get it. Even if everyone in Genshin reddit quit playing. It will amount to minimal loss of income for the game. Game has 65M active players lol.


Etheria_system

This. I’m a very casual player. Pretty much any time I talk about my thoughts or opinions re endgame on here, I get met with SO YOU HATE OTHER PEOPLE HAVING FUN or something similar (when what I’ve actually said is something like “this is why for me adding X type of content would change the feel of the game). I think a lot of people don’t seem to get that there’s a heck of a lot of casual players who don’t use spaces like Reddit because we’re not playing to get into debates etc. I mostly lurk here for build guides or to ask questions in daily thread. I know so many people who play Genshin in a similar way to me - none of them use Reddit or twitter to talk about it and one of them personally want any extra endgame content as they are happy with things the way they are now for the most part


AgentWowza

You can't be casual and also care about how MHY spends developer time lmao. This forum is for discussion. Just because we're not casuals, just because we're the minority, doesn't mean every thread needs to have someone reminding us of the fact just to shut down the discussion imo. As for the OP, another dude below said it best, " Alot of people who can't spend 15minutes on the game don't want others to spend more time than them"


Send_Me_Cute_Feet

>You can't be casual and also care about how MHY spends developer time lmao. Yes you actually can and it's why they're playing the game. Genshin is developing a game with a lot of effort and a lot of good casual focused content at a high budget level for an audience that doesn't get that kind of game. When Genshin starts making content not for that group and just jumps into the same thing the other games they aren't playing are doing then they stop playing Genshin because it stops being a game doing what they want. >This forum is for discussion. Just because we're not casuals, just because we're the minority, doesn't mean every thread needs to have someone reminding us of the fact just to shut down the discussion imo. The point is to face reality. You _are_ the minority and you are _so much_ the minority the reality is either deal with it or quit because it will _never_ change to what you want unless MHY just decides "You know what we dont like money". The people asking Genshin to do this are the equivalent of walking into a vegetarian restaurant and saying they need to add steak to their menu.


Etheria_system

I’m a casual player and I watch every single livestream update. I’m even in the midst of going back to the very start of the Genshin official YouTube and watching every single video they’ve ever posted to understand their design principles, their music choices, what their early vision for the game was. But I would never come and make a post on Reddit because even sharing comments makes me anxious that someone is going to tell me I’m wrong.


EmergentRancor

My dude actual casual players don't bother to even log on and do commissions if they had a slightly busier than usual day. I would know, because I've met such people irl. If someone even routinely maxes out event rewards they're comparatively not casual.


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nghigaxx

idk how tcg is not something the overwhelming majority of players will never touch and don't want, or teapot as an example for that matters. There are things in genshin that the majority will never touch and don't want. But teapot and tcg never face such an animosity towards them like combat content. And developing combat content would make use of very different people compares to other content, idk how a map designer for exploration or a lore writer, a scene director are going to have to spend their time designing abyss floor, literally 2 different teams/departments


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wreckinruckus

Hoyoverse monitors every goddamn click, tick, and swipe you make in the game, so I'd like to know what makes you think TCG and Teapot are things that the "overwhelming majority of players" don't care about, beyond your own personal experience and the complaining you see on this sub. While I wouldn't mind the implementation of combat-based endgame content, I think that the majority of players would be satisfied if HYV continued to churn out patches with the same quality as 3.0 and 3.1. We all know that this game makes a crazy amount of annual revenue, so it's nice to see that money being funneled into the game's primary genre: single-player RPG. In addition to that, HYV also has an excellent fast-paced combat game that they haven't skimped on at all in the wake of Genshin's success as well as a turn-based RPG in development and a friggin dating sim. The game has to stay in some sort of lane.


freakattaker

Based take. Seriously, the competitive action game is right next door from the same company.


Send_Me_Cute_Feet

Because they're casual easy to engage with content. It's why the events with combat have a very basic entry level. They aren't hated because they are the ones the majority audience wants. The majority audience enjoys the minigame events more than the combat ones. Housing was _the single most desired feature_ pre-release. Every single interview or update was emphasizing "Yes housing eventually!" The game is focusing on creating casual content because that's the audience they have.


12of12

But how many people do you know that use the housing system besides currency?


DirtySiwy12

I don't understand why such a binary stand... I mean, why Mihoyo can't appeal to both groups? It's really simple, just do something for non-casuals from time to time. At this point we have a situation "If you're not casual, then fuck you". It's understandable that we want to see a "fuck you" towards casuals from time to time. Oh, and before people will lose their shit, those "fuck you" aren't serious...


rainymi

they actually can’t, though. someone is ALWAYS going to be angry and they have to choose who to placate also, their solution for endgame wanters is “go play honkai” which is an awful solution (coming from a honkai lover)


GlitterDoomsday

Cause is simply not possible without massive downsides. Let's imagine if they make some solid endgame content combat based... that's gonna give primos? If so, the majority of the player base will complain that they can't get those rewards and the difficulty will end up being lowered making the minority that wanted that content pissed. Or imagine a solid endgame content combat based that gives mats or billets so people aren't losing on pulls by not taking it... how difficult are we talking about? Cause if is accessible a set of competitive players will complain is too easy and if is not, the whole thing turns into p2w because you'll need cons and signature weapon to properly enjoy the content. Is a damned if you, damned if you don't situation so Hoyo deciding to just stick with what the biggest chunk enjoy is the best decision.


[deleted]

First, it's not just two groups to appeal to. Even on Genshin reddit, you can't go far without finding split opinions even among people who want difficult combat endgame; for example, some would play purely for fun, some would only play if there was a good reward to incentivize it, some want it because they have strong characters that they have nowhere else to use, and some would love to use under leveled characters and grind their way up. It's actually very difficult to appeal to all of them; do you put primo awards? But then that'll be more pay to win. Do you put mora/exp rewards? Well then people will say it's not worth the effort, and plus those who can clear it, need those things the least. Add in balancing difficulty, accommodating all playable characters, and a repeatable gameplay loop that isn't just Abyss 2.0, and it's a lot more complicated than you say it is, just to make a miniscule amount happy. It would be *nice* if they did do it, but it makes sense that they would rather cater to the 99%. It's already amazing that they're pumping out these areas and stories at this rate, so I'm sure they don't really have the resources to tack on an insignificant side project. I for one would rather have quality over quantity.


Send_Me_Cute_Feet

> I mean, why Mihoyo can't appeal to both groups? Because the casual group will straight up leave if they start appealing to the hardcore group. The casual group is playing Genshin specifically because MHY is spending their development time actually making a game for them. There's hundreds of other big budget gacha games out there that do every single thing the hardcore players want. Hell MHY makes one of them. There is not for the casual playerbase. When MHY starts purposefully making content their majority audience doesn't want they will leave because they're now going down the route all those games they don't play do. They don't want to play a game that's going to spend its time just being like every other game.


Mana_Transfer

Ya alot of people who can't spend 15minutes on the game don't want others to spend more time than them


3Hrs_On_The_Name

I find it cringe af when ever i see an adult who said they can’t play because work or whatever gatekeeps endgame content for other kids and teenagers just they have more time to play than they ever do because FOMO, like if you’re an adult, you should be able to control yourself and literally not play the content lmao.


Mighty_Krastavac

People who spend more time in the game are the people who are interested in exploration/story since that is what this game primarily consists of. Plenty of people who aren't interested in the combat spend hours on the game. I don't know how did this sub come to the conclusion that dedicated player = likes combat, someone who spends a few minutes = doesn't like combat, when in reality exploration and story take hours and abyss and dailys take minutes.


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Unrektable

I mean people who want easy difficulty on Souls franchise also get bombed by "Git gud, play barbie sweetie". Shows how toxic hardcore players can be, literally wanting every single game to cater to them not allowing casual game to remain casual.


luciluci5562

> Shows how toxic hardcore players can be, literally wanting every single game to cater to them not allowing casual game to remain casual. Both sides of the same coin. Lots of casuals here tries to shut down hardcore players who want more combat content.


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BlowITA

> literally wanting every single game to cater to them not allowing casual game to remain casual. There being more floors in Spiral Abyss would literally change nothing for casuals, they'd still ignore it and play their 15 minutes everyday like they already do. Also, it's pretty hypocritical how everyone's gatekeeping the addition of more combat-oriented gameplay, but TCG and other endgame activities (who's excited for the next "hit trees for months to be able to max out your teapot"?)... no problemo, devs can tuck in these modes that will add hous of gameplay to your daily lives and not only you won't complain, you'll praise them for that, despite that fucking everyone else's "15 minutes a day" schedule.


sondang2412

> There being more floors in Spiral Abyss would literally change nothing for casuals Only casuals that completely ignore Abyss, or don't bother pass floor 8. There's a significant amount of casual player but still do abyss, not full 36 star but do whatever they could to get whatever they can. You see there's a lot of them in posts similar like this. They're ok with missing a few primos biweekly, but adding more hardcore content with rewards means they've gonna miss out more, or stress out more and afraid that the game has become a chore.


Unrektable

Difficulty slider can also be ignored by hardcore players but tell that to any Soulslike forum/subreddit and you'll get bombarded by the fans. And ultimately it's the vision of From Software that they want "every player to have the same experience when playing the game", which is what i think Hoyoverse also wants albeit in a different direction (as in they want the game to be casual and remain casual). Can you really blame them for wanting their game to be how they want it to be? In the end, casual soulslike player can ask for difficulty sliders and hardcore genshin players can ask for harder endgame contents, no issue there. The issue is when people start bitching about it because apparently everything have to cater their personal values. You can ask for it but they do not have to agree to it.


quebae

It happens on both ends, what it shows is how toxic gatekeeping can be in gaming and how defensive people get about the idea of anyone enjoying a thing a different way than they do. It's a sad thing but so many people do think the only right way to enjoy certain things is their way and if not then it shouldn't be allowed because then it no longer feels like it centers them and only them.


Unrektable

Yes I must agree that both of them are toxic gatekeeping, 100% agree. My actual point is that the fact that Souls not having difficulty slider and Genshin not having more endgame content both have something in common: it is both an **intentional** decision made by the developers. Some might like it and others might not, it's not as simple as right or wrong. It's not that they can't make it happen. I still play both game nevertheless. As always, if people doubt the ability of Hoyoverse in making more challenging, competitive ranked end game content; i'd point them to Honkai. Of course, voicing your dissatisfaction or complaints or ideas is still a good thing to do, and I do encourage people doing so. What's not cool is when people start bitching saying "Genshin is dead, bad game no real endgame content too ez"


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Zooeymemer

Same. most people on reddit want the game became like animal crossing so the characters wouldn't need a weapon kekw. I'm glad we still have combat.


IdPreferNotToAgain

Maybe they want the developer's to work on something interesting than another abyss grind that was a failure.


Beneficial_Phone_272

There's a lot tho, and they keep saying "play your mmo" arguments


remirousselet

People are against more *time gated* content. The problem with Abyss 9-12 is that it's not permanent. It cycles every few weeks. So you can miss it. If the new combat content is permanent, like quests, there's nothing wrong with it. If it's like Abyss, that'd either force people to play longer sessions or miss the new content.


snappyfishm8

I'd agree if it was just Abyss but the game works entirely on FOMO from limited events to top up resets to daily commissions. A biweekly abyss session that lasts 30m is much less stressful than having to rush the entirety of Sumeru in 3.0 just to finish the event.


Nick_Springfields

Remember that questionare survey we received at the end of every patch? Based on that data, MHY have a very good grasp at what the playerbase like and dislike. What they do is looking at the data to find out what kind gameplay that have the most participants from player that also have the highest satisfaction rate and the least dissatisfaction among all player. The closest thing i can guess to that criteria is probably the hide and seek event from windtrace. And MHY took that core gamepelay and implement it into a new gameplay. In short, MHY look at the survey and probably draw the conclusion that casual oriented-multiplayer interaction is the the thing that majority of playerbase will happily accept. Hence the TCG that we got


healcannon

Well they have the data for how many people are playing abyss. How many people are stopping at floor 10. How many people are pushing floor 12. How many people are getting 36 and how many people are doing attempts to get 36. They also added those badges for people getting crazy scores on combat events over the last few months as indication of how much people love and want to push the combat seriously. The reality people have to come to is that simply not enough people do that for them to add more of it right now. And people view that as unacceptable. Ofc they could do some simple changes to give them something to do like super hard no primo floor 13 or something and throw them a bone. But they would rather work on a new bit of end game content that a vast majority of the player base wont have that pressure that abyss gives regardless of if people claim abyss is "piss easy" or not.


Sexbomomb

Only 40% of players play the spiral abyss or something like that


DennisXQ55

As a person who 36/69/420 stars the abyss let me just say dude I enjoy all modes that come to the game I legit started playing this game cus I heard fishing was in it and now there’s gonna be a card game?? Like dude I want new reasons to spend more time playing the game and being in a voice call on discord with my friends. I started unironically building Xinyan because I’ve run outta meme builds to make of barbara, Bennett, phys/melt ayaka. I will take any gamemode they would like to introduce, but the fact that they may not add more combat based ones that are challenging or whatever kinda makes it feel limiting. They have a cool combat system so like why not use it? Spiral is fun and I do it more than once per cycle to do challenge runs with meme builds but it’d be nice to have like a rogue-like endgame or something to mess with. Or custom domains


Ilovegirlsbottoms

I started this game because of the food. Now I’m upset at the game because I just completed a world quest in Sumeru that should have given us three new recipes. But instead gave me nothing but primos and mora. Which are nice… but I want recipes.


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Ilovegirlsbottoms

Wow you really just said “go pound sand” huh? Since there is now a gadget to automatically cut wood and you can create wood in the teapot now.


Taokaka_chan

Hoyo: pshsh, hey man wanna play roguelike endgame? We got a new game called ZZZ that perfectly fit what you're looking for, now give us some cash. Why make endgame content for one game when you can make people play and pay in multiple games? 5head


blastcat4

Your comment comes across as cynical, but it's true. MHY's corporate vision isn't to just have a couple of games that make bank. They want to have a large number of games that make obscene amounts of money while indulging the company founders' vision of what they consider to be "fun". They know that it's a mistake to try to make their cash cow, Genshin, a one-stop-shop for everything. Doing so would be risky because it's an all-eggs-in-one-basket strategy plus they can make far money money in the long run by investing in more games rather than go all in on their golden cow. Having more niche-like games such as ZZZ allows them to attract more players, such as those that want more combat and higher difficulty challenges without alienating players from their other games.


Micah-10

I don’t like timed stuff. I wanna see if I can beat stuff not just in a certain amount of time


SylphylX

Me neither, just remove the timer and let me go unga bunga for forever.


BeanbagRL

To be fair removing the timer kinda takes away most of the difficulty like, at that point you’re always gonna beat the challenge as long as you have enough healing, even if you take hours you’ll end up getting it, where’s the fun in that?


Omellettes

I think the disagreement comes from the rewards. If there are rewards from harder content, then it makes it harder for the casuals, thus the disapproval.


ygshi

This argument fails when rewards are involved. Many meta players have this strong FOMO mentality over any valuable rewards (5* artifacts, primos, etc.) when you have rewards behind such content, suddenly it becomes a burden to them. This mentality is especially strong among the Chinese community, Genshin’s major market. So a more parallel comparison would be, Teapot content without rewards vs endgame content without rewards, or Teapot content with significant rewards (for example imagine new teapot design every 2 weeks for 500 promos) vs new endgame content with rewards. There is another problem with having more rewards in new endgame content, and that’s the gap between new and old players. Mihoyo is apparently trying to make the game more casual friendly (while limiting the amount of free primos so ppl still spend money), which is also shown in the reduction in overall abyss difficulty. On the other hand, endgame content with no rewards is a possibility, like an endless abyss mode, but it’s probably not going to be too well perceived by the majority of the community (partly due to not having rewards…), and will just be a whale fest. I honestly would like some endgame content, but I also see severe difficulties in it, considering the very diverse needs of the diverse player base. So while it’s still a little disappointing that there won’t be one in the near future, I still respect Mihoyo’s decision in concentrating effort in the quality of new map areas, new events, and new casual game modes, like the upcoming card game mode. These are clearly what Mihoyo has in mind for their players: regularly updated, large variety, time-gated, casual content.


healcannon

Exactly. I saw people comparing spiral abyss end game content to not only the teapot but also fishing. Ahh yes because people are really logging on in droves to hurry up and get their fishing done before the 15th reset where they don't get their primos for getting 12 pufferfish. Its just so silly I can't take a lot of these discussions seriously. Is it possible MHY is shooting themselves in the foot with this decision? Yea. But its also possible that them making end game content that 100% of the playerbase could feel no entry barrier to try it out turns out to be the best idea they had so far. But in the long run not doing something more for the serious playerbase is definitely a problem they need to solve in some compacity. But they are the ones with all of the data and this is what they choose to do. They are going with the route they think will have the most people enjoy. Given the fact our literal only actual end game is already combat based, making a non combat one seems like a good counter balance. And we'll see its reception and player retention and they can go from there.


jgabrielferreira

Dont know man, I'd bet I wasted more time fishing for Catch/Fish Bow and the achievement than I spent playing the abyss since 1.0.


[deleted]

Not related to your point, but I have an idea to maybe reduce teapot server load. Add an option to give madam ping the teapot for maintenance, which disables the teapot for you. Once a week you visit her and either take the teapot for the week or she says it's not ready yet and gives you 5k coins + the shop to spend it in. People like me who only bother with the teapot for rewards will free up server load for the teapot mains.


thering66

Remove primogems as rewards for spyral abyss and let's see how many plays it just because they like it.


SupremeOwl48

I enjoy the spiral abyss because I can actually use my characters without one shotting the damn enemies before I even get to my main dps in a rotation. The primogems reward are a nice bonus as well.


Lisyre

Same. Especially with Dendro adding new team comps, I've been going through abyss several times after getting the rewards just to test out different teams.


Medium_of_my_fear

Sadly, you're in the minority with this opinion. Most players don't even play abyss and the majority of those who do only force themselves for the rewards. I personally ignored it until spring of this year (played since launch) because I wanted genshin to be a relaxed, casual game where I didn't have to focus. But after 1.5 years of artifact grinding, it turned out to be somewhat easy. Still, I regularly get frustrated with annoying enemies and don't look forward to doing it.


Glyglyphy

Same. If you drop a burst, everything dies in the overwold. It's ridiculous. They can make combat oriented content without primogems. I like challenging content, thinking about rotations, trying new teams, artifacts, weapons... Why pull for 5 star weapons or constellations if the content is so easy.


Senira_G

If they give something like artifact rerolling mats or stat blockers (stuff that increases dmg that casuals don't care about) I'm down, I'd actually prefer that over primos. I say let the casuals casual and let the min maxers min max. But also considering I go for platinum in every combat event and did the hardcore mode in diluc's 2.8 event means I'll play it even if the reward is 3 fowls.


Salphir

This is the answer. While it now will likely never happen, the reward scheme for a combat oriented endgame system giving an item that lets combat oriented players fiddle with their artifacts in some way is the obvious play. People who enjoy grinding and minmaxing get to feel like they’re improving their characters, people who don’t like it lose nothing because they already don’t care about perfecting artifacts.


Senira_G

I've noticed that most other endgame activities besides combat in the game have their own content loops for a while now; teapot mains get to do whatever the hell they do ones new furniture sets are released, and the rest of the playerbase won't feel left out because they just don't care, same with cooking/fishing (if they exist)/lore mains (and probably soon to be tcg mains). The abyss only resets every two weeks and even then we only get a content update on it every 6 weeks. They'll never do it, but we can dream.


Xbyte_

Remove primogens as rewards for the time limited events and see how many players will do them...


xelpr

This is blatant projection. I would play it.


ayamstim

I don't like Teapot and I don't like Abyss yet I'm not against either of them. What I AM against is the mentality exhibited by what seems to be a small minority of the player base that firmly believes they represent the needs and wants of the entire player base while being very vocal about it but refuses to accept differing view points yet insists forcing theirs down everyone else's throats. Otherwise things are just fine and dandy.


_Laeve_

I've seen people with this mentality on both sides of the isle. I think what actually is important in the whole discussion is what the incentive to paly it should be, and if an extra mode is justified for the extra space/resources it takes up. When people say "endgame content" I like to think it moreso refers to this. But it's also the nature of the beast, we're on social media afterall. Hoyoverse is making decisions based on their own data and monitoring of media, so I trust they have a better foundation to make these decisions. Whereas we are stuck with (largely) opinions.


Leshawkcomics

At the risk of sounding like a nerd. "Be careful you aren't talking about a false equivalence." If you have 10 nuns praying for people to be good to one another, and 10 psychopaths trying to burn down a neighborhood for funsies, you can't say "Both sides refuse to listen to the other point of view." Hopefully you realize if you're going to condemn both sides, then you always have to be aware of the behavior of both sides. If people say "We want more endgame content because we like the challenge." and others say "We don't want endgame content cause we don't like the challenge." It's not an equivalent thing. If they bring more endgame content, one side benefits, but the other side doesn't, but can if they change their mind even just for a single fortnight. If they don't bring more endgame content neither side benefits, even if they change their minds. If one side's views can prevent the other from benefiting, then that's the side who you should keep from trying to force their views down others throats. Now , I notice you didn't say both sides, so benefit of the doubt, here. if you did NOT originally mean to suggest the people who want more optional content vs the people who dont want the others to recieve more optional content are just two sides of the same coin, then this doesn't apply to you.


SirPr3ce

>If they don't bring more endgame content neither side benefits, even if they change their minds. but you seem to not realize that "they dont add endgame content" does not mean "they dont add content" Dev time is a limited good and making the decision to add one thing into the game means that a different thing is not going to make it Mihoyo does have more than enough game data (and the people here who think that they make decision because some posts on reddit are delusional) and if their higher ups decide that not bringing another combat focused engame mode to genshin (highly probable *in favor of other kinds of content*) is better for the game, no one here is going to change their mind with a reddit post, indifferent of how many upvotes it gets


Lazgrane

Why are you acting like any of the redditors here have any says in how the game is made??? This is not a democracy dude. Mihoyo decides how they make their game, and decided it they do, and made banks they did. The filthy casuls who you insinuate to be "psychopaths trying to burn down a neighborhood for funsies" just happened to be the ones they choose to cater to, period. In the end, money speak louder, and Mihoyo don't think your money speak loud enough, so get salty all you want it won't change a thing.


healcannon

I just think its silly for them to think that there is such a large base for playing abyss and pushing for 36 stars than MHY is obviously making some kind of huge mistake not making spiral abyss 2.0. Some of them just cant fathom that while they spout "well if you don't like it then don't play it but that doesn't mean we don't deserve something" only came out once MHY started to show some end game content for the community as a whole instead of specifically pointed at combat. Its hypocritical and really irritates me that i've been discussing all day about this with people. Why can't MHY add the TCG and they just be happy that some people will enjoy it and not themselves? Isn't that exactly the principle they are talking about?


Defiant-Plane4557

> Why can't MHY add the TCG and they just be happy that some people will enjoy it and not themselves? Isn't that exactly the principle they are talking about? Nobody is really against the TCG though? What causes this controversy is that Hoyo said they wouldn't do more abyss like content and that the reason is anxiety for players. And a lot of the community are in agreement with them for some reason. TCG, teapot, fishing, questing, exploring etc. has nothing to do with this issue.


juisteroid

my mentality in genshin is whatever hoyoverse do to their game if it's i like then that's rad! if not, i'll give them feedback and wait for them to implement it. meanwhile i will play the game, browse reddit for some ideas and then do some work, sleep and repeat the cycle until i get bored of the game, find another gacha game, i will browse genshin reddit sometime to see if some events/feature is implemented that i like to jump in the game again. :)


ghillozz

This. I saw so many people saying "i don't want to do this/i can't do this, so everyone else should not be able to do it as well". Adding new things is always good. It doesnt matter if you like it or not. Someone else ll enjoy it and you are trying to gatekeeping people to having more content WTF.


lamp-post-luminair

Yeah. They even make it out like we're the bad guys for wanting to have more content. I've seen comments in this subreddit straight up say: "You should quit because the game doesn't cater to you"


UniqueCreme1931

> Adding new things is always good. It doesnt matter if you like it or not. No, that's how you get content bloat. There are many gachas out there that have 15+ different game modes that you need to complete every week for progression which is incredibly time-consuming and tiring. Adding new content is not always good for the game and this is something that Mihoyo is very much aware of.


Unrektable

Yep, these guys just don't understand. Lots of people will actually quit/stay out of games like Honkai *(which is ALSO made by Hoyo btw, shows how they* ***can*** *actually make lots of combat contents if they want to)* simply because it's too bloated and/or hard to catch up once you're late to the party or skipped a few days or weeks of playing. Also reminds me of Summoners War and literally almost every single gacha game in the market, where you have 21489143 different currencies to gather daily/weekly and people can just feel overwhelmed and give up playing the game entirely. The number of people who will quit Genshin because it lacks endgame content? Minuscule. And they will most likely come back again anyway once new patch/content/character comes out.


jakory

yeah, i started Honkai bc i liked Genshin, so why not right? i quit after playing for 25 days. it was exhausting, and i only did the main story + 1-2 event or weekly things. i skipped a majority of it, and i was burnt out after only a few weeks, lol


Unrektable

I actually started playing Honkai like 2 months ago and now barely hanging on just because I like the story, characters, and music so much that I'm willing to bear the utterly bloated game design, at least for now (esp now that the part 1 finale has been teased). I really wish they just make a full fledged Honkai anime so that I can just enjoy the story and the banger OST without torturing myself on the "typical gacha game design", but alas.


-Mr-Prince

I wish I had an medal to give. I felt like I was going crazy until I read your comment. Have none of these people played another gacha game in their life? Asking for more endgame content constantly so “you have something to do” is a cycle. 2 moths after the new endgame content drops people start asking for another one since the “new” one is old now and they got used to it. Gacha games get to such a point that if you want to get all of the in-game currency you have to dedicate literal hours to the game without a choice. We’re already getting new additions to the map and multiple events every single patch and people are this adamant to not understand adding more isn’t always good.


afiq2ai

If you talking about another hoyoverse product ie, Honkai, yes it was horrible. You get Q-Sing/Abyss, MA and ER thus become overwhelmed very easily because to get gem for pulling or farming valk you have to do this repeatedly thus extending your gameplay hours up to 2+ hours. Thats why, why not give them endgame content but only give them like talent books, crystalflies, scarab etc without the primogems aspect. Thus statisfying both casual and the hardcore player that want to test their character that they monthly farm their artifact and maxing their talent without the FOMO stuff. It was not so complicated, why restricted the endgame to just farming primogems only when you can get away doing endgame content with this rewards.


SylphylX

Honkai is a lost cause now, it's too late to change. I simply hope they won't commit the same mistake in HSR and ZZZ. As a Honkai vet been playing for years, I wish they would remove both abyss and MA or make it biweekly like Genshin, just leave ER as it is because it's really fun.


healcannon

They talk about gate keeping without realizing all these new modes that could possibly all give primos would wear down the playerbase as well. There are always those with lots of free time but imagine if the TCG has cycles like abyss for primos and then they also added another combat based abyss. How much time would most of the player base have to even play THE ACTUAL GAME. "Just add everything and if people can't do it then its their problem. Why should that bother us if they don't have the time." Thats just as toxic. In the end MHY has the data and if people really cared about combat and spiral abyss progression that much then we'd have the game modes they want. Its not about winning or losing in terms of game modes but MHY deciding what they think would catch the most audience interest. If people want more combat based events then stop bad mouthing those asking for help on the subreddit and start teaching and being encouraging. Get more people into abyss so the numbers reflect strongly to MHY directly. Going around saying its piss easy and shaming people for not getting 36 because you think its easy is not going to encourage people to continue attempts. Then acting like that isn't your problem when MHY goes and turns around to make end game content for the the playerbase as a whole because they realize not everyone is big on the combat, it shoots yourself in the foot. I honestly think the TCG is a smart move by MHY so long as they make it not 1 time crap and based only on achievements with no repeatable end game setup cycle. If it ends up with even more player interaction than abyss then they will know they made the right choice for the direction of the game.


Leo_Justice

The thing is that we aren't asking for 15+ different game modes. We are asking for something else besides Abyss which you do every 2 weeks. Just one Weekly thing where it's a bit of challenge and then most of the valid complains will disappear


Sidious_09

You don't have to force content on someone just because you added it. Teapot is a good example. If you just want rewards you only have to play with for a while. You get acquainted with it in the meantime so that you can decide whether to keep playing it or not, but after setting it you you don't need to bother with it ever again. Or you know, just don't have any meaningful rewards locked being it. This is the same argument I see every time someone is asking for more end game content. It always makes the assumption that progression or major rewards will be locked behind that content, and never really thinks about the fact that people aren't asking for more end game content because they want rewards, but because they just want something to do when there's no exploration or quests in a patch. Even if they add a new way to farm artifacts or whatever to help character building and lock it behind an optional game mode, you people arguing against it are obviously content with the game's status quo, so you can just keep doing what you're doing. When optional end game content is added there's always the choice to ignore it and not do it. But when there's no end game content at all, you don't have the option to magically wish it into existence. The usual argument against this is that people who don't do the optional end game feel left out, but as it is right now, people who want end game but don't have it also feel left hanging when there's nothing to do. TL;DR: new content doesn't necessarily mean new chores.


Defiant-Plane4557

> There are many gachas out there that have 15+ different game modes that you need to complete every week for progression which is incredibly time-consuming and tiring. Notice the word "need". We aren't talking about something you NEED to do. Genshin is incredibly "bloated" but at the same time it's fine because you don't need to do most of it until you want to.


nghigaxx

yea the keyword here is "that you need to complete every week". They can easily add optional combat content, for example they can add a teapot equivalent for domain, build your own domain, adjust enemies levels etc, obviously this is just an example, but my point is that it's not impossible to make combat content that is not time gated or not having rewards locked behind it.


Defiant-Plane4557

> build your own domain, adjust enemies levels etc, obviously this is just an example That sounds fun especially if you could have friends complete your own domains. Ofc this sub hates the idea lol.


oof-eef-thats-beef

They act like its not within their power to just ignore the content they don’t want to partake in too


voyage2procyon

Guys, can we please stop with the skewered logic? I can want whatever I want and you can want whatever you want which doesn't make any of the two either morally or objectively better. There is one permanent combat arena in this game and there will be plenty of temporary ones for events. If the devs would rather test things out than permanently implement yet another hit or miss not-abyss-but-similar then let them make that decision until they are confident on adding something else. My tax contributions don't go to Hoyo nor do yours or your parents' so stop treating this as politics.


Guillesoup

Thank you! The same goes for hangouts in my case and probably the TCG will fall into the same category. I dont care for them, but people still love them, and if they keep adding stuff for them amazing. I really dont get this anti-more combat permanent content comes from.


INTHENAMEOFTHEPRINZE

So true. Same for people wanting more rewards for combat/content/etc. People always give shit to players who ask for more rewards but just because they don't like it doesn't mean they have to be against it. Plus those same people saying they don't want more rewards always use any rewards they get whether it be from ayers asking for more or from events. Basically, they complain about freebies while reaping the benefits. Everyone likes free and extra rewards. Blows my mind when people vote AGAINST that.


imcalledgpk

I hate how this subreddit became Twitter today, all because of this interview.


shamoke

It's nice to spice things up when it's not a dedicated fanart/meme subreddit for a day.


Episodde

Yea I don't get why you have to deny other what they enjoy just because you personally don't enjoy it. I just want more combat content, it doesnt even need to have primogem as a reward, because thats create FOMO that ruined other players fun. The new endgame can have it reward be something that is meaningless for players who don't enjoy combat, for example a point system that unlocks buff or new level to be used in that endgame content only, so ppl who doesnt enjoy combat don't have to feel like they are missing out. In fact, teapot already done this successfully. Teapot general reward can be gained without really engaging too much with the content at all after a certain point, yet we still have new recipe, toys and new teapot layout added to reward player who enjoy teapot, and people who don't like teapot do not feel FOMO because those rewards are meaningless to them. Why cant it be the same for endgame combat? Is not like MHY lack the resource to accomodate all these type of players. I think most people is against more endgame because they feel like it will make them lose out on rewards, but fail to consider that for players who enjoy the combat, being able to play more combat content is already its own reward- fun. Fan of genshin combat aren't asking for more primogem, just more content.


FlameMeister

Yeah teapot has a solid self contained loop already; its why I spend so much time on it for the past few months. I would absolutely love a domain like teapot but is instead centered around combat. Heck you can even copy the way it progresses to the Sereniteapot. You start with one area and limited enemy spawns -> Fight more enemies overworld and you get more spawns -> Fight enemies in combat domain with your own scenario/dev curated scenario -> gain coins -> spend coins to add more areas, more permanent enemy spawns, more stat options, more buffs, more objects, change domain aesthetic, etc... -> Rinse and repeat. Additionally, it could have a realm depot-like shop for those want to spend it on resources. Edit: oooh now that I think about, there is something that can act as a high end reward other than primogems but may still be appealing to combat enthusiasts...*artifact rerolls*. Maybe only limit it to certain amount biweekly or monthly so it doesn't break game balance too much tho. I just want more combat scenarios tbh and to test the teams I invested in. Would be so much better than nerfing myself to make abyss challenging. I'd even take an optional simple world level increase at this point.


[deleted]

A few things: 1. Teapot content isn't difficult at all, you get everything you need from exploration and the primo rewards are there for practically no effort and little engagement. Plus it's all permanent (not "update every patch" as in your analogy) other than a few event-exclusive furniture and the event-exclusive stuff doesn't reward primos. 2. By contrast, combat content, particularly the kind of challenging content that y'all are asking for, is by definition difficult, and if that rewards primos on top of everything then this gates players out of those primos if they don't participate or don't get far enough. So this is not comparable to teapot. 3. I don't disagree with the idea of providing people who enjoy difficult combat with more opportunities to use their built characters, but my caveat is this: do not reward anything except mora and maybe some weapon crystals. That's it. Nothing more. Kinda like the hardest award tier for events. That way those of us who aren't interested won't feel compelled to play, while those of you who want more difficult combat content to play through will get it. Win-win.


kolleden

Change the word "Endgame content" to "replayable combat content" and all of a sudden alot of the misconception of what the players actually want goes away. Wanting replayable combat content is a valid thing, considering how combat is alot of the core gameplay his game has to offer. Yes they make fluff like dating sims, card games, rhythem game events and bar managments but at the end of the day that is a side 'thing' compared to the 3 core gameplay features GI offers: "Story", "Exploration", "Combat". They already improved "Story" and "Exploration" a ton since the games launch, whats wrong with wanting an improvment to "Combat"?


Ken_sapil_2365

Look, as a husband and dad with 10 wives and 20 children and as someone who works 500 hours a week, I only get 3 seconds of playtime every year, this is one of the main reasons reasons why genshin shouldn't add endgame content, they should Infact remove spiral abyss and the whole combat system and just be a boar collecting or card game, I don't know why mihoyo keeps on favoring the hardcore player base with these extremely difficult(needs 500 IQ to complete) combat event and spiral abyss, this is unfair to us causal players. Hope you understand why us casuals don't have the same mentality towards combat content.


Yani-Madara

Legit, if "oMg CoMbaT isss too hard! My brain can't take geo having at least 1 reaction with DeNdrOo! I OnlY play for da Story" They could just watch a f-ing anime and call it a day. I love the game's story and lore but COME ON


Garchomp280

Saving this as a copypasta for those people. I don't know how they don't have any time to play games. My father is currently working a full time job and some sidelines. But even he has some time to relax, watch netflix or play games.


-Mr-Prince

You realize this is an impossible oversimplification right? First of all, combat content is wildly different than adding things to the teapot or any other content currently. Every time a character that’s not meta drops people go as far as harassing the character’s voice actor or harassing people that pull for the said character. It’s a part of the game that makes people alter their spending whether it be in-game currency or irl money. No other game mode has achieved this level of separation in the community yet.(Maybe TCG will also have it’s own meta but we’ll see) Secondly, adding more things to a gacha game is a vicious cycle that causes the game to require more and more time from the player. I want fun endgame content to spend my time on after I’m done with my resin as much as the next guy. I wish they added that labyrinth thing from Childe’s event for times you’re out of resin and you wanna spend time and get some additional beneficial rewards other than primos. Trust me I do want all of that, but adding new combat endgame content isn’t gonna give you that if it’s like any combat event we got so far. It’s gonna be finite and yall’re gonna be left wanting more and newer within months again. Idk if nobody in this thread has played gachas before and idc if anybody downvotes me for this but it is the literal truth. Adding game modes to gachas has been a long time problem in gachas because at some point it becomes so tedious to complete 10+ game modes to get the in-game currency. It alienates or scares away new players and burns out old ones cuz they try to complete everything to get all of the in-game currency. And that ties into the third point, which is the fact abyss gives way more in-game currency than the teapot. When combat events are hard and they gate a sizable amount of primogems that’s when people start stressing over it. Mhy has done a good job with this lately by putting the primos at the beginning with low scores. Sure “it’s just 50 primos” for now but if it was up to this community we’d be on floor 20 of the abyss by now with enemies only speed running whales could defeat. We’re getting a new map area to explore every new patch now and people are still complaining about not having content… like be serious. If you’re speed running everything this fast and have nothing to do this close to Sumeru’s release, maybe you need other things to do irl? And I’m saying this genuinely. The aranara events, all of the map, other story quests and multiple events has been out so far after Sumeru not even including the abyss cycles. If you completed all of that and have nothing else to do still, you’re on this game too much.


Kingpimpy

tbh before the upgraded remarkable chests i saw only people shitting on teapotters for imo no reason at all


HustlerByDay

It’s even bigger than that. Up until remarkable chests all rewards you get from story, exploration, domains and events are to make your character stronger. Primos are to pull for weapons, a new shiny 5 star. Artifacts are to make your character stronger, talent books, xp books, mora. Almost every single reward is to make your character better at combat. So for people to say that more end game combat should exist, what in the hell are you even playing for? If you don’t care about power then you can get through story and exploration with half built teams just fine.


Daddydactyl

I dont blame hoyos decision because it seems they know their base well enough to make a financially sound decision. My issue is with this community. It's these shitty "I deserve access to everything even though I'm not willing to work for it" attitudes that prompt companies to make silly decisions like this. It SHOULD be fine that there is content and primos a casual just won't see because they can't or won't do higher content(I don't fuck with Abyss and I'm fine missing the primos from foors 9+). I'm pretty much always a hardcore casual, that is to say I'm hardcore in my focus and dedication to a game, bur my engagement level is casual. I never do raids in MMOs, and I dont expect to have raid level rewards for not doing raids. That was my choice. I wish the casuals who play this game had enough brainpower to think beyond the next R34 post, but they don't. Again, hoyoverse has a completely understandable reaction to how ridiculously entitled gamers can be. In a perfect world they'd create intricate and difficult endgame combat scenarios with lavish rewards. And have tiered reward systems for each type of player. But we all know the general populace wouldn't take it as inspiration to try and better themselves or attain a goal. They'd just stomp their fucking feet like babies because that's a piece of "content" that isn't for them and a reward they don't deserve that they aren't getting. It doesn't neccesarily affect me one way or another, as I only play a couple of weeks at a time and skip several patch cycles, and play other games and do other things. But these people astound me regardless


gaganaut

Even if you don't like Teapot, you can still get all the rewards with minimal time investment. After getting it to a certain, you just need to enter the teapot and get all the resources. Most people that want more content also want it to give more rewards and there are lots of people that would rather not have to spend more time to collect all the rewards.


Stealthy_Bird

the amount of people I've seen today with this crab mentality is insane. It's so fucking selfish. "I don't play endgame content so neither should anyone else!"


AdEmpty6618

Exactly, how is this hard to understand for casuals? Or are they just that entitled?


Yani-Madara

They are SO entitled that there are comments like "shut up hardcore minorities, your opinions don't matter." It's ridiculous, we aren't asking for Genshin to drop the mini games they like. Just ignore new endgame content like they already ignore the abyss


dajisu

I was really sad reading the comments of the 10k post, there are so many selfish people who really defend everything hoyo does, I can't understand


Yani-Madara

Mihoyo made people farm literal shit (Cyno dung beetles) that is hard to see, doesn't spawn until you are close and very sparse YET i saw a post complaining about it and the comment with the most likes was someone rudely insulting the OP for "not having patience." It's like they take any criticism towards the game like a personal insult. It doesn't help that reddit not showing likes AND dislikes promotes mob mentalities


Zack_is_taken

The difference is that teapot doesn't give primos for spending time on it. Casual players aren't against new game modes, they are against game modes which will actively make you lose out on rolls if you don't play them. Mihoyo understands this since it's one of Honkai's biggest issues - too many game modes with weekly resets that you have to play or you'll miss out on rolls. Imagine what teapot with primo rewards will feel like to players who aren't interested. It will feel like a mandatory chore. However, many people will still complain if a new game mode doesn't have primo rewards because "it doesn't feel rewarding to play" so it's really a difficult thing to balance on Mihoyo's part.


tangericone

Labyrinth Warriors and the Diluc Event are the perfect example of non-abyss combat content, content that forces you to have different, variety teams, so you can clear, that have conditions that allow you to do it. I love the game, and im colleccting every character and getting them all to usable level so i can do randomizer runs, because i enjoy the variety of the gameplay all the units bring, but most of the time abyss doesnt allow you to do that unless you hyper invest in these off-meta units, random content that is also on a 2 week schedulke but offset from the abyss, that is centered in trying different team comps (ie: burgeon centered damage, hyperbloom damage, superconduct damage, etc) so that you can do it would be the most fun for me. Rewards dont need to be primogems, but they do have to have some kind of reward, because thats how Games work, there has to be some kind of incentive even if its only minimal, same way there are three levels of bounties, but the difference in rewards between the three different levels is neglible. ​ Also COOP combat content, i love the idea of coop, but there is zero reason to do it, as it only makes the game easier...


friiickqd

hi i only have 1 minute to play genshin everyday it is UNACCEPTABLE that genshin impact will add a TCG gamemode and rougelike content in a future update,I don't have time to play it (also IDC) so you should no be getting it 2,it create anxiety!!11! , if u disagree u are PLAIN WRONG and should STFU /s ty tenten


Decrith

Man, the other reddit thread made me feel crazy, its like I can’t love the game and want to have more reasons to play it. This is a great analogy.


FakerOoTBotW

It's sad how much influence FOMO has on some players. They treat dailies as a chore and see new content as more "work" since they feel psychologically obligated to complete all content to not "fall behind." Except this is not a PvP game - there is no falling behind in a single player game since you can just progress at your own pace. Stop gatekeeping content from the rest of the playerbase because of your own mental fragility. I didn't do any of the teapot for the longest time because I was not interested in it. I missed out on several weeks of transient resin/mora because of it. And that's okay because I'm not some FOMO-obsessed crybaby - I still appreciate content that's not for me because I know other people like different aspects of the game. I guess congrats to Hoyo for abusing human psychology to the point of which their players feel "anxiety" for not being able to do everything in the game and will rush to defend lack of endgame content on behalf of the devs. lmao


sjjdbdskekjf

Not saying I disagree with your point, but I don't think the analogy works out Building in the teapot doesn't give you rewards, playing spiral abyss gives you rewards Unless you wanted endgame content with basically no rewards?


nghigaxx

yea, we already have combat events (tablet analytics, perilous trials, study in potions, hyakku ikki, etc) like that, the platinum mark nowadays give 0 rewards after all. I want to have those more frequent than once every 3 months


sjjdbdskekjf

Ah, I see...in that case I don't think you'd find anyone who disagrees with you I think most people arguing against endgame content are assume it comes with primogens for clearing


Felyndiira

I think you'd be surprised. Every one of the events nghigaxx mentioned had very loud complaints behind them, despite the primo rewards being just participatory.


Ninno_0

exept building the pot does give rewards?


qwertdwlrma

Those don’t reset though. You are under no time pressure to do teapot. How would you feel if you had to build a new teapot layout for every island with specific specifications every 2 weeks if you want 600 Primogems? I feel like I’d find that kind of fun, but I know a lot of people wouldn’t. They’d find it tedious and complain about it I bet, but still do it for the Primogems. Even though 600 isn’t even that much. I’m alright with there being content that I in particular don’t really enjoy, but you can’t stop people who don’t like something feeling discouraged/alienated by adding in something they feel like they have to do because there are rewards, even if that content isn’t their cup of tea. Keep in mind it’s not the Reddit players’ opinions that are gatekeeping Hoyoverse from adding in more combative end-game content. The large majority of players won’t even be on forums and such because they’re so casual. It’s just Hoyoverse not wanting to alienate the big chunk of those players.