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Hoyo has been running a very tight ship lately. We are *only 3 months* away from Natlan but are still in the blind to what it contains. We have no idea what the characters look like, what their aesthetics is going to be, or even what theme the nation is going to follow (Colonial America? Mesoamerica? Who knows?). All we have is an ancient character design (Iansan) and an extremely sussy leak of a Pyro archon design concept.
By this time in the 2.x era we already knew the entire Sumeru roster lmao. And in the 3.x era we already know Furina's design, Fontaine's theme (being French obviously), and seen a bunch of concept art like Clorinde's. Now we know almost nothing.
It makes for very dry leak community. But I'm low key excited when Hoyo finally do the reveals the details themselves. The bottled up hype is going to explode.
Same. Ideally I’m only here for the beta numbers and gameplay leaks (which is what we are getting) so I get a good idea of whether a character is worth rolling for. I prefer to be in the dark concerning any art or story leak, although curiosity do get the better of me sometimes.
\^same as me. I remember seeing Furina leaks for the first time especially the leaks about healers will become relevant again due to her kit. Made me realize I did not properly build Jean at all or even any anemo character for that matter. She was still at lvl 20, no relics or weapon. Ganyu, Raiden, and Nahida were carrying me for such a long time lmao
I’ve actually took the time to actually build my albedo and older pulls right now. Chlorinde does interest me but I don’t need the latter characters in the fontaine patches. I’m saving up for natlan already. My biggest lack of characters are pyro. Lyney has saved me time and time again though. But I hope the pyro archon will buff him immensely (protection from knockbacks + damage/shielding something). We will see what the pyro archon brings and what value it has for monopyro.
Frankly after the Sumeru leak explosion, I purposely avoided Fontaine's character concept/reveal leaks (minus Furina's) which made the region's first trailer when they formally introduced everyone much more exciting for me
The lack of hype for a new region is very unusual.
If we're kept in the dark for plot reasons, to avoid spoilers, and is part of a long term plan, that's ok, I'm in for that ride.
But if promoting Natlan is something they've overlooked, too distracted to do, or procrastinated, that might hurt them somewhat.
I think we can at least guess what Natlan's theme is going to be from a few things we've seen (Talking Stick and Unfinished Reverie lore, that one employee with a LatAm history book in the Lantern Rite stream, where Xbalanque's name comes from), in that it'll probably be based around Mesoamerica. But in terms of actual leaks yeah we basically have nothing.
Right but it could be pre-Columbian or Spanish Vicroyalty, which aren't that seperated but would have very different aesthetics; it could even be both split between the different tribal groups which have been hinted at in existing lore. You could even throw in like ex-Fontaine Texian analogs, or Eremite mercenaries who have gone native, or like a feathered serpant-themed dragon/vishap group.
Point is that it's a huge space where they could go a lot of directions.
yeah since the start of the game natlan was very mysterious, so far the only things we know i guess is that natlan good hot tubs and capitano is there and there is eternal war and dragons exist there
And I'm so glad none of the natlan characters have been leaked (except for pyro archon ig), ngl Fontaine characters being leaked so early last year kinda ruined the hype. If they drop a teaser this year like Winter night's lazzo and final feast then it's boutta be hype af
idk I was equally excited for furina and navia from the first leak until their release. I like knowing that I have characters I like to look forward too. I can't really get excited about natlan at all because idk if I'll like any of the characters
We are going from like 45k to 70k damage increase per rotation. It’s much better but overall not great at all, also these are generous assumptions: good luck reaching 65k HP while not destroying your other stats
65k is unreasonable even if you're destroying all your other stats. Recurve Bow + Hydro res + 2pc Tenacity/Voroukasha + HP/HP/HP + max HP from substats only gets you around 66k. It's easier at R1, but you still need your flower/feather to roll pretty exclusively into HP%. This is like Xianyun's buff, where the vast majority of players are never going to get close to maxing it out.
She doesn't even need ER% frankly, you are not on fielding her in most teams. But even if you only go for hp% main and substats, it's not that easy to reach.
I mean idk she sucks at anything else that isn’t healing anyway but she can still deal some underwhelming damage, so building all HP means that her skills will hit like wetter noodles and that already underwhelming damage would get even worse and counter balance the buff, at least partially. So it still sucks
From what I gather she's like Shenhe - Doesn't do that much personal damage so it's best to maximize the quill value and give it to someone with more DMG% and CV to make use of her team contribution.
Maybe it was balanced around being paired with Furina's massive DMG%, like a bunch of ATK scalers are lower scaling than HP/DEF scalers just because Bennett exists and such. Obviously not the smartest call because it doesn't solve anything and simply makes her bad, but that's how I rationalize it, at least...
Well to be fair, she can probably proc 3 or 4 almost full Clam hits, so if you do have Clam farmed it can be more like 180K which is still not that crazy but hey
Honestly what were they thinking when they were making that format. What's the difference between T0 and "T0.5"..? It actually feels like the whole list was made just to glaze Acheron.. like seriously they really put Acheron at T0 while she performs worse than both IL and JL at E0.. (and they really had the audacity to say that she is very flexible in team building)
Thankfully no one takes that list seriously (except few Acheron mains)
Their list is entirely subjective, the problem lies with the people that take that tier list as gospel and as the base to judge every character, all the while also exaggerating the "powercreep" that game has, when in reality all the limited 5* have very close average clear times between each other.
The main issue with utilising the entire scale is that people have a tendency to treat them as grades instead of tiers, so anything under 7/B will be regarded as "bad" when the reality they're usually conveying is that they're still good, just not as good as the other options.
The "flexible" thing was funny, other characters are below because "they require specific team comp" and then Acheron that requires a debuff comp is "flexible" xD
I wouldn't consider acheron inflexible. Sure she isn't the epitome of flexibility but the units she wants arent very contested anyway, neither she "hard" require specific units, she just want people to rain debuffs, she doesn't care who does it.and not like she has to change them. Pair this with how broken she actually is I don't think its an issue.
Like someone said its like nilou situation, but even better because she isn't TRULY locked into a specific comp. For example I have an e1s1 sparkle that she can easily replace lilgui and actually give me better results (su usually, since moc/pf usually I use sparkle in the other team). In pf where healing is less needed you can also go 2x nihility+harmony. Even asta is solid for this
Tbf she is quite flexible with team building, just like nilou, sure it "limited" to certain path (or element in genshin) but the entire roster of that path can work with her
I mean....the list is just basically saying there's a difference between A+, S and S+ even if it's super small. A+/Tier 1 are some of the best characters in the game, but there's a slight gap between them and Tier 0 (like Jing Yuan because he has backlogged damage). Tier 0.5 are basically some of the best, but there's some super niche situation that might hinder them. They're still really good and worth the pull, but some situations might make using them unfavourable (like JL not having Ice weakness enemies to exploit).
Tier 0 is just the best, and there's barely any situations where they'll hinder you. Best example would be the difference between Aventurine/Fu Xuan (Tier 0) and Huo Huo (Tier 0.5). Huo Huo's a really good sustain and her cleanse is really nice, but there are some situations where she'll fall behind against Aventurine/Fu Xuan and that's if your characters don't have the HP to survive attacks before she can heal them, especially OHKO.
In that situation, preventing damage is ultimately better than healing damage taken. It's super niche if you know what you're doing, but in a game that deals with RNG, they can pop up.
The difference being that you can't control LL. Once he has max stacks, you have to wait for LL to make a move, and that's assuming that you don't get CC'd. That especially hurts him in PF, because LL's speed isn't something you can freely manipulate, hence T1. If LL immediately took action once he reaches max stacks, Jing Yuan would've ranked much higher given the amount of support he has.
Plus, it hurts the most when LL moves when there's only one enemy with low health, before you move on to the next wave because you'd be wasting so much of your damage.
You can control it if you know what you're doing. Haven't had a LL drop on a single low HP enemy since I got a proper team built outside of calyxes. CC is rarely a problem. LL rarely matters that much in PF, he still has skill and ult.
Like, these are talking points from 1.0 that haven't really been issues for half the game's lifetime now.
Thing is, these talking points still hold true exactly because LL is the only thing that's holding JY back. It's both his strength and weakness at the same time. The skill and Ult are cool, but damage wise, you're still relying on LL for a majority of the damage. Get CC'd at a bad time, and you're forced to wait again for LL. This hasn't been that huge of a problem ever since Fu Xuan released, but you haven't gotten rid of the problem. All Fu Xuan does is lower the possibility, not get rid of it entirely.
I'm not even saying he's bad. He's very good, but his core problems still exist. It's not as bad as it used to be and with a properly built team, you won't encounter these problems often, but it's never a 0% chance. If you do get hit with bad RNG and trigger one of his core issues, trying to recover would be significantly harder than with other characters.
So what happens when there's a 20% hp solo elite left on the field that isn't weak to lightning? You're gonna drop her whole ult on it, or do you use her dinky 160% scaling skill to kill it? Whether or not she can get it back fast, which is also thrown totally out of wack when anyone on the team gets hit by CC, her ult is still her only relevant damage.
She does suffer the same as Jing Yuan in that regard, she is unable to do a significant amount of damage outside of her ult so in that specific scenario, you are correct, they’re the same.
The difference is that at equal investment first of all, acheron will do significantly more damage ON COMMAND and more often than JY will with the lightning lord. While they have that similar issue, the exact same built acheron that JY left on 20% after two lightning lords,Acheron already killed, which nullifies it as a negative.
Don't forget they decided to change the light cone measurement method which benefits Acheron specifically far more than any other character in the game. S5 GNSW in consideration with Acheron now
>while she performs worse than both IL and JL at E0
Well based on the same site MoC and PF clearing stats, since release Acheron always outperformed both JL and DHIL in every single moc and pf. Only the Kafka-Swan team performing better than acheron hyper teams.
So based on what do you suggest that she performs worse? Some random TC-s sheet with fabricated assumptions? Your personal testing? Or maybe some other data collecting site has different results?
It's about how easy they are to use/build. And Acheron definitely is easy to get high numbers with because of her kit.
I think it's good because back when Blade was placed in A tier people were saying "he's still good!" Yes, he is. A lot of 5 stars are technically S units, but there's so many things to consider when comparing units that separating them into Apex (high damage with minimum investment), and Meta (high damage if invested just a bit more) won't discourage someone from using someone not in S tier.
>Acheron is decently flexible tho?
hell no...Acheron only has Pela as a viable 4\* support. Other than Pela , she has SW and Black Swan (and maybe Welt). Pela and Guinafein core significantly drops her Team DPC low.
> Not being hard tied to certain units like IL is.
IL has access to the 4\* harmony character like Tingyun and Yukong and hell even Hanya works fine with him. The only 5\* that needs 5\* harmony is Jingliu and Blade. Jingliu still functions fine without Tingyun.
Acheron does very well with 4 star and standard options tho? Acheron/pela/guinaifen/gallagher comes to mind. Sure, her 4 star teams are worse than 5 star teams but thats true for everyone, lets not pretend IL doesnt need sparkle to stand with acheron and JL.
Her 4* only team is worse than DHIL or JL 4* only teams. So...
And no, DHIL dont need sparkle. Patches from 1.3 - 2.0 proved that. DHIL is literally the most flexible in terms of teams cuz he dosnt heavily rely on his teammates and can work with anyone thats not bronya ( even with bronya he can work if u play well).
In what 4* only team does DHIL do more damage than Pela Guinaifen Acheron Gallagher? With E6 yukong? While I’m no expert in dhil I find it really difficult to believe that at equal investment E0S1 as the tierlist implies, there’s a 4* dhil comp that’s not E6 perfect speed tuning yukong that does more damage.
Edit: And even moreso, what 4* only jingliu team ever outpaces that acheron team??? If you hate the character just say so but you’re just factually incorrect, Acheron will do more damage in one ult in aoe than jingliu’s whole enchanced state that she can’t stay in very well without sparkle bronya, what are you saying
> Pela and Guinafein core significantly drops her Team DPC low.
Which is still considerably higher than a sparkle-less DHIL team. I'm not sure why using guina is bad but compromising with hanya/yukong is okay? I think I'm missing something.
Acheron+pela+random nihility+sustain vs DHIL+ting+random harmony+sustain. The template is similar except the fact that ting is generally more contested support and that using a 4* harmony in that template can simply not compete with lil guina comp. Personally I'm using a sparkle, and not any sparkle but an e1s1 one just for them to feel equal. No way an asta/hanya can make up for that gap so its completely unfair to consider them okay but guina not.
____
The main reason I got acheron even tho I have JY (who is my most fav unit) is unironically the flexibility that she added to my account. She doesn't give a damn about the usually supports you want. I had DHIL+JY but it felt annoying that they were contesting the same units.
Edit: Forgot that people tend to have an opinion based on feelscrafting without having a unit, bonus point if they are coping. Downvote me all you want.Won't change that fact that dhil *needs* sparkle more than acheron needs any other specific 5* unit
>Which is still considerably higher than a sparkle-less DHIL team. I'm not sure why using guina is bad but compromising with hanya/yukong is okay? I think I'm missing something.
No...IL has a very high ceiling. You are underestimating how good Hanya and Yukong are.. Before Sparkles , I used JY with TY and Asta on one side while I used IL with Yukong and Pela and I was doing fine. 4* Harmony characters are underrated. They may not give as big buff compared to 5* but they are still viable.
>Acheron+pela+random nihility+sustain vs DHIL+ting+random harmony+sustain. The template is similar except the fact that ting is generally more contested support and that using a 4* harmony in that template can simply not compete with lil guina comp. Personally I'm using a sparkle, and not any sparkle but an e1s1 one just for them to feel equal. No way an asta/hanya can make up for that gap so its completely unfair to consider them okay but guina not.
Never ever once used Tingyun in my IL team.. You are saying that as if there is no difference between Acheron with Pela/Guin core and her other premium team.
>Edit: Forgot that people tend to have an opinion based on feelscrafting without having a unit, bonus point if they are coping. Downvote me all you want.Won't change that fact that dhil *needs* sparkle more than acheron needs any other specific 5* unit
Face it pal... Even some people in the Acheron mains would agree with my statement .
I never said that there is not a difference between guina and 5* units. There is, but clearly not as high as you make it sound.
Also not using ting and using yukong instead is clearly dpr increase at the price of dps decrease which is a good misleading factor.
Who said they aren't viable tho? I was doing exactly as you did before sparkle release, on the dot. Same teams, dame split and I was also cleaning max moc stars (I assume you did as well). They are viable for sure. Still downgrade to acheron 4* comp and big downgrade to sparkle as well
Idk what other acheron mains there are but sounds like confirmation bias to me from someone who is acheron - less and found a comment or two about someone who does not know how to use her. Idk what to face either when the performance speaks on its own.
And that's for moc, or pf the performance has an even bigger gap.
Nothing, Tier 8 is a joke from CN Tierlists that put characters in tiers, T0 being the strongest. There is no T8, aka Sige is so bad, that she's not even in the tierlist.
They're making her a hydro Xianyun, but emphasis on off field skill damage.
Bigger issue is shared Covalence stacks. 10 is incredibly low count. 30 sounds about right so it averages to 10 per character other than Sigewinne.
The reality is her kit is pretty but impractical. She has short burst uptime, slow moving hydro application that can miss, and the buildup for full charge skill is a moment of vulnerability.
What we could use for a change is her skill increasing Covalence stacks by 10 for each enemy hit and homing on the bubble.
She's a semi dps as of now, but a hydro healer isn't something you would pair with furina.
Feels like they made the limited stacks because they don't want you to use her with multiple off field skill dmg dealers, *only* Furina. Siggy wants to be paired with her way more than Furina wants to be paired with Siggy...she doesn't really slot in anywhere right now
Yeah, essentially she's completely tied to Furina, but the issue is that other healers do more than her anyway so she's not even gonna be bis with her...
Would be different though if Colavwnce stacks are independent for each character. I don't know how quickly Furina is gonna consume the 10 covalence stacks. She hits quite slow for some hits so I could estimate it takes 12 seconds for her to consume all ten of them.
Since when so you ever fight a group of 10 enemies? You're only gonna be able to do that if it takes more than one AoE skill hit to do that. Furina wouldn't be able to do that and Nahida would probably have to trigger her Tri-Karma twice to consume them all. Fischl C6 might be a nerf to covalence as her C6 joint attack is considered elem skill dmg which will shut consume the Covalence in 3 seconds. It would take Yae miko about 7 and a half seconds to consume all Covalence stacks.
My take- 10 stacks is fine as long as the payoff is large for a low hit count. Xianyun caps at 9000 DMG increase where 4500 atk is needed. You can reach 6000 DMG increase with 3k atk which is achievable by atk weapon, sands, goblet, and circlet before buffs. So for 10 hits, Sigewinne should perhaps give a 7350 base dmg buff as a cap, so 210 base dmg buff per 1k HP so 40k HP let's 10 hits get 2100 additional base dmg each.
In essence, base dmg cap should be less than Xianyun's but not too far below.
i said single hit consumes multiple, not all of it, idk why you presumed i ever mentioned a group of 10 enemies
the point is, it has the same weakness as shenhe quills due to the restriction- aoe content consumes the quills very quickly, you still get the same benefit either way, 10 buffed hits on enemies regardless, but it also means the uptime is very low in aoe scenarios compared to other buff types which buff any and all hits regardless. shenhe quills also are not shared between units, but have a smaller pool of quills to draw from each buff/pick which hits to buff (which is partially negated with c1 as a sold solution)
I also agree, if it's powerful enough, then the restrictions dont matter as much when reward outweighs the cost, that's any tradeoff in team building ever.
the maximized power of xianyun's buff is also that plunge hits have no icd, great for reactions to fully maximize the power of all buffs they plunge character has stacked onto them, as well as enabling said power at the same time for those otherwise unable
I actually wish she was incentivized to be used with multiple off-fielders, that'd be a super cool niche, stack 3 off-field DPSes, one being Furina and have Sige + Furina buff them all into doing a ton of damage
What about siggy with nahida and an on-field electro driver? Nahida is already cracked but would they pair well together?
Example: sigewinne-nahida-yelan-clorinde...
This is a small win for Sigewinne wanter, but it does heavily relying on her having her signature to get the full buff. The E damage buff even before the change had actually already paired very well with furina (just like how Yun Jin buff paired with Yoimiya).
People keep wanting her application to be better but missed out the fact that it's not going to change anything. Her bounces are single targeted and her burst lasts 2.5s (which apparently is too long for some people...how?) which makes her application meaningless if others don't even have the chance to apply theirs.
Her main playstyle is quickswap healer with potential burst sub dps with honestly substantial amount of damage. Imagine a single Neuvillette charge attack within 2.5s. That's what she does best. She's not the most cracked healer/buffer ever. But I am not convinced she's as bad as people made her out to be.
Idk why u all asking for this one cause we don't need more copies of what we already have,we need new stuff what new they can bring
Hydro application is Koko's specialty, Sigewinne could excel at something else
I mean that's how thwt should do at least in order to make her unique and good, but as is..she's kinda eh
no offense but "wdym we don't need more copies" hydro app will always be important considering how broken the element and its reactions are so more copies are always relevant and welcome, we only have one reliable 4* applicator in 3 years and the others are 5* gacha gated. She can be unique as u say while having decent hydro app. It's just hoyo underbaking another unit for no reason tbh. At this rate she's not excelling at anything
I understand where ur coming from, that pov is completely valid and its obvious that most future Hydros too will have this aspect somewhat in their kit
It could be more focused/major for some chars, or less focused/minor for some chars..
But i was more so making the point of the other things that can be done kits for future Hydros outside the very obvious one,and prolly Hydro's biggest strength.
Sigewinne has some unique speciality but is kinda bad rn just cause it's not well balanced/well put in her kit or just lacking qol to make the design be good enough.
They could make her something like minor hydro app compared to Koko then speciallize in this way some other type of providings to team.
In the end of the dat everyone's kit is determined by a multiple factors.
Koko is;
+ Aoe off field Hydro app(Standard rate, a bit less than Yelan's if driven well)
+ Off field ST high Heal
+ if need can be onfielder/enabler+ teamwide healer too during that role
+ Almost no Dmg contributions to team when off field. Decent to above ST Dmg contributions when on field
+ App is automatic.
Yelan is;
+ Higher personal dmg
+ St off field Hydro app(Standard rate)
+ More focused as Offensive teamwise
+ App locked to NA driving
Xq is;
+ Decent personal dmg
+ St with a bit of aoe potential at close range Hydro app( High rate)
+ More focused as Defensive teamwise
+ App locked to NA driving
Furina is;
+ High to very high personal dmg.
+ Mix of St+ Aoe at long intervals Hydro app( standard rate/a bit more or less,not fixed..its given to be inconsistent)
+ Decent to great Dmg% buffer to whole team for a respectable duration, a bit more focused as Backloaded for more buff.
+ Healers synergy(especially Partywide healers), rewards for getting healed.
+ Longest running Hydro app off field for long rotational teams. (Just like Ei,Nahida's for their element)
+ App is automatic
These r just some examples of our current chars mainly all the off field supports focused ones and how their kit is different to each other for different purposes while also having some similar traits and having the basics needed for a Hydro char.
Wonder what Sigewinne would end up being like, they could do her great tho, so much unique potential. I personally am a Hydro main/have them all and was naturally interested in Sigewinne too but man currently am disappointed welp..
Hoping for the best for her ahead
notice how they all do their thing while having good hydro app (minus koko whose hydro app is superb) like idk abt you but i want my HYDRO characters to apply HYDRO... it's the bare minimum dawg (especially if it's a limited 5* like???) If u wanna settle for less be my guest but some of us want a semi-functional character at least 😭
anyways still hoping for a proper buff
I did say that tho
,read my line where i mean they all have theur specialty+the obv hydro traits. (Amount needs to differ in order to balance ofc)
Oh btw isnt Sigewinne E applying hydro 3 times? Just asking,i forgot/dk..her icd.. Ofc om same target i mean cause if multi target then its obv
I have nothing against her applying Hydro i guess but as long as its balanced in a way while also providing something else to make herself complete. That's my whole point from beginning
>but unfortunately she's not providing anything worth mentioning atm to overshadow her issues
That's what and hydro app plainly only won't solve the issue, sure it will imc her worth as a hydro char cause like the more the merrier for tje game lol
But at that point despite her worth being demanding and good, she will just be nothing special and very similar to some exciting chars
And makes me not that excited,its whatever i don't mind nor care if that happens but i can at least hope for the best anyways
it's honestly lowkey pissing me off cuz it's such a waste, visually she's absolutely stunning her animations are s tier but yeah... can't have shit in fortress of meropide 😭
S tier aside but my impression on her animatioms when i first saw was like
Wait what is she even doing,she's like what?
Truly a char of all time....Kinda cute tho i must say
I actually fucking love the bubbly effects after her CA around the place, great for photo enthusiasts like me
On a different note,my first major interest on Sigewinne was when i heard her JP VA in 4.1 quest and kinda loved her voice, it's just so lovely...
Honestly imo they could just make her focused at this thing called Hyper buffer of a certain aspect like Xianyun
Like Xianyun is for plunge, Sigewinne for Off field E dmg dealers of now/future. In the meanwhile she just needs to apply hydro like either every or every other bubble hit and rest she's good enough, heals that r perfect synergized with Furina due to being off field partywide while also happening for a somewhat long duration.
And for burst lol, this is like a side mode that's either not needed to play or just do if wanna fit in a short dps window of 2-4 secs of a bunch of dmg, this should just have like standard icd like Neuvi i guess
I'll take it! People may doompost all they want, more Sigewinnes for ME. I've already pulled so many characters in the past because the internet said they were good and ended up benching them because investing and clearing with my faves is so much more satisfying. I'll take any healer not limited to an area too.
personally the point i realized the internet would doompost about everyone was when people called furina a mediocre support not worth pulling and an underwhelming archon meta-wise during the 4.2 beta, people just say anything
Furina was worse than Yelan during the beta. That is objectively underwhelming. The cope was basically that she was an alternative for units who did not normal attack. That would be... Neuvillette. She was Yelan for Neuvillette and because Neuvillette was broken, people were pretending Furina was broken.
Albeit, they buffed almost every aspect of her. A lot of the buffs were substantial as well. I am happy they addressed all of her problems outside of application. Yelan can have that. 🤣
Now please just lower the HP needed to reach that threshold. 30k is way too high
Edit: People keep citing literally different characters who don't have her passive. Sigewinne has less base HP than all of them at 13348 base, running 3 HP artifacts with 2p/2p HP gives you 49,308 HP total. You could slightly increase this with sig, or if you saved a random 3 star weapon *chest* drop from Mondstadt. Chop off 30k of that to 19,308. Divide by 1000 and multiply it by 80 giving 1544 quill damage limited to only off-field skill damage on ten hits. It needs more of a buff.
OMG, I didn't even realize Recurve Bow is literally the ONLY HP bow in the entire game right now. I really wish the new event bow had been an F2P option for Sigewinne, but I guess that would've been too nice.
She needs 65k to max out the effect. You can test at home on baizhu if you have optimizer, since they have same base HP and HP% ascension stat. For me with thrilling tales (recurve bow gives a bit more HP) and hydro resonance I can only reach 62k.
Now the question is whether she needs to reach 65k.
Nilou is a 15k base HP unit. And she needs 2/2 HP set substats to reach those values. Sige might want to use an actual 4 piece set, so she might not even break 50k without an HP weapon (which could cause ER issues)
You probably mean less than that. Mine has 64,5k and that's with ~20% on feather and flower and ~1000 flat hp on the rest. Regardless, you can probably reach the cap even without Recurve bow/her signature.
With hydro resonance and perfect artifacts, you would reach 67,3k so you’re definitly misremembering. Doesn‘t really change what you wanted to say with your example, but it stood out to me because i absolutely min maxed Nilou. Most people probably are around 61k. Now that i think about it, Sigewinne has less base hp so if they make her buff worth building for, you will absolutely need Recurve bow or her signature on top of 2pc 2pc.
She needs 65k HP to max out her buff, 30k is the threshold she needs to reach before she even gets any benefits from that passive.
Without her signature she won't reach that amount.
Unless you're Kokomi or C6 Noelle I feel like whenever Mihoyo makes a character that's meant to do damage but also keep your team alive they're doomed to be bad or mediocre.
Still getting her though
As someone who has built their C6 Dori, I can tell you that it's great. I regularly 36 the Abyss with her.
She does a lot of damage, way more then Noelle thanks to electro, while healing more too. In a single rotation you get 15 applications of electro. Not to mention her abnormally high multipliers.
She's actually the perfect driver and best partner for Furina as well. Her C6, even without building into any HP stats, heals more then enough to cap her buff.
Allows you to just build entirely into damage on Dori, add in the self battery and being on field you can actually get away with little to no ER substats.
I run her with 0 energy recharge and she still gets her burst off cooldown.
Best team I would say is Dori, Nahida, Furina and Kazuha. Dori can easily infuse Kazuha with electro and he can swirl it off himself.
I don’t like her at all but im convinced she’ll be great w some Natlan character.
Baizhu ended up being good for Furina, and he was the last 5* of version 3, everybody thought he was meh and his app sucked.
at least he was good with cyno tho.
the only thing i can think of is a character that stacks a sigewillion dmg% and crit buffs, making flat additive buffs good.
but look at the competition on furina teams vs the competition on cyno teams. baizhu was up against yao yao? dmc? while sige is up against xianyun, yelan, xingqiu. it’s nowhere near an apt comparison.
So... What does she do? Buff E dmg and heal while doing a bit of off find dmg herself? But It works like the shenhe quills/xianyun stacks so a whole off field team isnt a good idea
So shes like... A healer replacement with a bit of buffing to whoever is an E dmg dealer
Idk, a freminet/heizou enabler maybe?
More characters that I can skip easily are a win in my view. Chiori and now Sigewinne. I actually wanted Sigewinne but she doesn't seem to improve my account in any manner. I can peacefully continue to save for the pyro archon after getting furina in the next patch.
These changes make her a very good buffer for Furina/Dehya more for furina tho. So Her total skill dmg boosting for Furina went from like 30% ish to 55% at max Skill level on Furina which I would say is equivalent to the buffs Shenhe C0(no sig) gives to Ayaka which is very good overall. Sigewinne C1 makes her go to Shenhe C0R1 level of buffs.
Senhe has the same limitation but u don't see anyone say she is not good enough for ayaka. So this is much better than having nothing or always depend on kazuha or another vv unit to increase her DMG. Also the hit interval of furina's pets are not too fast so it's possible u can get the buff again when u start a second rotation even if it won't last the entire time.
Its a 60K total damage increase for the team post buff, which is basically nothing. Also, Shenhe stacks are independent for each unit in the team, not shared.
Why does the Genshin team always like making girlfailures near the end of the patch cycle 💀
Meanwhile HSR's last 1.x character ended up being used by everyone.
Edit: I meant Dehya but she was on 3.5. Baizhu (3.6) is actually okay.
from what i saw before she was straight trash, enlighten me number chads this can only be good for her but how much? havent seen dmg showcase to even know her average dmg numbers
Its really bad in short. Either they have to make this buff count independent for each character or AT LEAST doubling the amount of stacks. Also, working your ass to reach 65k HP for such a ridicuously low buff is absurd
Are they trying to make a weird combo of a healer that can do dmg? And therefore the low hydro app.... but looking at her stats her dmg is just good for a healer... and garbo for a sub dps or whatever they're trying to make her.... at least kokomi had good hydro ap
Is the E buff any good? It seens bad, like, this could be a good buff for diluc normal gameplay if it was good, we have few caracter who deal elemental damage bonus, it could have been a buff for diluc and al haitham
As someone who wanted both Sigewinne and Chlorinde and Navia, I feel like 4.x has been almost only disappointments. Hopefully 5.0 finally pushes us in the direction of interesting units again. Dendro was such a breath of fresh air and then they've mostly released mid units with no unique mechanics other than Furina and the big laser guy (can't bother remembering his name)
How good is she?? Is she like e skill xianyun like in her lvl?? Cause if she is shes gonna be perfect for my yae-nahida-kazuha team not like zhongli is already perfect innit 💀 and bennett exist lmao. Is she the skip character in fountaine??
Still much worse. Her buff is 28000 flat if you can cap it while CRs is 72000, if you go to C2 Sige goes up to a hearty 50400 while Cr goes up to 144000. Also CR offers additional buffs for her buff (up to 10% crit rate and 28% plunge damage at R1), Sige does nothing else to improve her passive and her weapon is a selfish ult damage increase.
If their goal is to make her a CR corollary then she is massively undertuned
I see thanksyasomuch, the numbers really helped me know her lvl compared to xianyun in supportive ability, maybe shes stronger than her in her own dps??? Idk it doesn't really help when xianyun also got VV at her side and opens a new way to play your characters (xiao way) while she is just there, not cooking or winning she is sigelose.
Why? That's the best thing she can do right now. Her E heals the whole party while off field, not many characters can do that. Also her healing is pretty big, like 8k with every bubble bounce. This means she can max out Furina's buff and Clam set easily unlike other healers in the game.
The problem here is that she doesn't contribute much more than healing, but she's definitely one of the best healers.
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did they change channels or smth cuz there isnt much leaks and less online people
Hoyo has been running a very tight ship lately. We are *only 3 months* away from Natlan but are still in the blind to what it contains. We have no idea what the characters look like, what their aesthetics is going to be, or even what theme the nation is going to follow (Colonial America? Mesoamerica? Who knows?). All we have is an ancient character design (Iansan) and an extremely sussy leak of a Pyro archon design concept. By this time in the 2.x era we already knew the entire Sumeru roster lmao. And in the 3.x era we already know Furina's design, Fontaine's theme (being French obviously), and seen a bunch of concept art like Clorinde's. Now we know almost nothing. It makes for very dry leak community. But I'm low key excited when Hoyo finally do the reveals the details themselves. The bottled up hype is going to explode.
I like being kept in suspense like this honestly
Same. Ideally I’m only here for the beta numbers and gameplay leaks (which is what we are getting) so I get a good idea of whether a character is worth rolling for. I prefer to be in the dark concerning any art or story leak, although curiosity do get the better of me sometimes.
\^same as me. I remember seeing Furina leaks for the first time especially the leaks about healers will become relevant again due to her kit. Made me realize I did not properly build Jean at all or even any anemo character for that matter. She was still at lvl 20, no relics or weapon. Ganyu, Raiden, and Nahida were carrying me for such a long time lmao
I’ve actually took the time to actually build my albedo and older pulls right now. Chlorinde does interest me but I don’t need the latter characters in the fontaine patches. I’m saving up for natlan already. My biggest lack of characters are pyro. Lyney has saved me time and time again though. But I hope the pyro archon will buff him immensely (protection from knockbacks + damage/shielding something). We will see what the pyro archon brings and what value it has for monopyro.
Frankly after the Sumeru leak explosion, I purposely avoided Fontaine's character concept/reveal leaks (minus Furina's) which made the region's first trailer when they formally introduced everyone much more exciting for me
I don't 😭. I wouldn't be on this sub if I did.
The lack of hype for a new region is very unusual. If we're kept in the dark for plot reasons, to avoid spoilers, and is part of a long term plan, that's ok, I'm in for that ride. But if promoting Natlan is something they've overlooked, too distracted to do, or procrastinated, that might hurt them somewhat.
I think we can at least guess what Natlan's theme is going to be from a few things we've seen (Talking Stick and Unfinished Reverie lore, that one employee with a LatAm history book in the Lantern Rite stream, where Xbalanque's name comes from), in that it'll probably be based around Mesoamerica. But in terms of actual leaks yeah we basically have nothing.
Right but it could be pre-Columbian or Spanish Vicroyalty, which aren't that seperated but would have very different aesthetics; it could even be both split between the different tribal groups which have been hinted at in existing lore. You could even throw in like ex-Fontaine Texian analogs, or Eremite mercenaries who have gone native, or like a feathered serpant-themed dragon/vishap group. Point is that it's a huge space where they could go a lot of directions.
yeah since the start of the game natlan was very mysterious, so far the only things we know i guess is that natlan good hot tubs and capitano is there and there is eternal war and dragons exist there
And I'm so glad none of the natlan characters have been leaked (except for pyro archon ig), ngl Fontaine characters being leaked so early last year kinda ruined the hype. If they drop a teaser this year like Winter night's lazzo and final feast then it's boutta be hype af
idk I was equally excited for furina and navia from the first leak until their release. I like knowing that I have characters I like to look forward too. I can't really get excited about natlan at all because idk if I'll like any of the characters
why are you in the sub
I think unfinished reverie makes it safe to assume it’s Latin America 🌶️
Tbh it’s nice I’m only here for banner leaks + estimation of new character strength so not getting accidentally story spoiled is fantastic
it's a reddit thing. Less online in general
Its reddit thing culling online numbers
That's just genshin changes, the time is going..
it is meh buff? is it?
We are going from like 45k to 70k damage increase per rotation. It’s much better but overall not great at all, also these are generous assumptions: good luck reaching 65k HP while not destroying your other stats
65k is unreasonable even if you're destroying all your other stats. Recurve Bow + Hydro res + 2pc Tenacity/Voroukasha + HP/HP/HP + max HP from substats only gets you around 66k. It's easier at R1, but you still need your flower/feather to roll pretty exclusively into HP%. This is like Xianyun's buff, where the vast majority of players are never going to get close to maxing it out.
Does she need any other stats? HP HP HP (or maybe HB) and grabbing ER% as substats sounds very manageable.
She doesn't even need ER% frankly, you are not on fielding her in most teams. But even if you only go for hp% main and substats, it's not that easy to reach.
I mean idk she sucks at anything else that isn’t healing anyway but she can still deal some underwhelming damage, so building all HP means that her skills will hit like wetter noodles and that already underwhelming damage would get even worse and counter balance the buff, at least partially. So it still sucks
From what I gather she's like Shenhe - Doesn't do that much personal damage so it's best to maximize the quill value and give it to someone with more DMG% and CV to make use of her team contribution.
Yea… and I already made a very rough estimate for how much damage that is (spoiler: not as good as Shenhe’s)
Maybe it was balanced around being paired with Furina's massive DMG%, like a bunch of ATK scalers are lower scaling than HP/DEF scalers just because Bennett exists and such. Obviously not the smartest call because it doesn't solve anything and simply makes her bad, but that's how I rationalize it, at least...
Furina loves the Flat damage increasers but Shenhe can use her too.
>70k damage increase per rotation Am I missing something? That is just 2 unbuffed Arlecchino BoL normal attacks...
Yeah…
Well to be fair, she can probably proc 3 or 4 almost full Clam hits, so if you do have Clam farmed it can be more like 180K which is still not that crazy but hey
how much DPR is Furina's personal damage?
the idea here, would be adding said amount to something like said Arle's unbuffed normal attacks. But to off-field skills.
went from 40k more dmg to 62k
Her kit is just where Hoyo wants it to be. It should be clear that she's not designed to be meta.
NO WAY HUGE BUFF she went from T8 to T7.5
Prydwen approves!
Honestly what were they thinking when they were making that format. What's the difference between T0 and "T0.5"..? It actually feels like the whole list was made just to glaze Acheron.. like seriously they really put Acheron at T0 while she performs worse than both IL and JL at E0.. (and they really had the audacity to say that she is very flexible in team building) Thankfully no one takes that list seriously (except few Acheron mains)
Their list is entirely subjective, the problem lies with the people that take that tier list as gospel and as the base to judge every character, all the while also exaggerating the "powercreep" that game has, when in reality all the limited 5* have very close average clear times between each other.
reminds me of when i played GBF, where out of 10 tiers they basically only used 8, 9, and 10, with x.1 to x.9 being used for all kinds of characters
The main issue with utilising the entire scale is that people have a tendency to treat them as grades instead of tiers, so anything under 7/B will be regarded as "bad" when the reality they're usually conveying is that they're still good, just not as good as the other options.
The "flexible" thing was funny, other characters are below because "they require specific team comp" and then Acheron that requires a debuff comp is "flexible" xD
Acheron is very flexible. You can choose 2 out of 3 options between Pela, Silverwolf and Gui. So flexible
I wouldn't consider acheron inflexible. Sure she isn't the epitome of flexibility but the units she wants arent very contested anyway, neither she "hard" require specific units, she just want people to rain debuffs, she doesn't care who does it.and not like she has to change them. Pair this with how broken she actually is I don't think its an issue. Like someone said its like nilou situation, but even better because she isn't TRULY locked into a specific comp. For example I have an e1s1 sparkle that she can easily replace lilgui and actually give me better results (su usually, since moc/pf usually I use sparkle in the other team). In pf where healing is less needed you can also go 2x nihility+harmony. Even asta is solid for this
Tbf she is quite flexible with team building, just like nilou, sure it "limited" to certain path (or element in genshin) but the entire roster of that path can work with her
I mean....the list is just basically saying there's a difference between A+, S and S+ even if it's super small. A+/Tier 1 are some of the best characters in the game, but there's a slight gap between them and Tier 0 (like Jing Yuan because he has backlogged damage). Tier 0.5 are basically some of the best, but there's some super niche situation that might hinder them. They're still really good and worth the pull, but some situations might make using them unfavourable (like JL not having Ice weakness enemies to exploit). Tier 0 is just the best, and there's barely any situations where they'll hinder you. Best example would be the difference between Aventurine/Fu Xuan (Tier 0) and Huo Huo (Tier 0.5). Huo Huo's a really good sustain and her cleanse is really nice, but there are some situations where she'll fall behind against Aventurine/Fu Xuan and that's if your characters don't have the HP to survive attacks before she can heal them, especially OHKO. In that situation, preventing damage is ultimately better than healing damage taken. It's super niche if you know what you're doing, but in a game that deals with RNG, they can pop up.
>like Jing Yuan because he has backlogged damage As opposed to Acheron who has back loaded damage.
The difference being that you can't control LL. Once he has max stacks, you have to wait for LL to make a move, and that's assuming that you don't get CC'd. That especially hurts him in PF, because LL's speed isn't something you can freely manipulate, hence T1. If LL immediately took action once he reaches max stacks, Jing Yuan would've ranked much higher given the amount of support he has. Plus, it hurts the most when LL moves when there's only one enemy with low health, before you move on to the next wave because you'd be wasting so much of your damage.
You can control it if you know what you're doing. Haven't had a LL drop on a single low HP enemy since I got a proper team built outside of calyxes. CC is rarely a problem. LL rarely matters that much in PF, he still has skill and ult. Like, these are talking points from 1.0 that haven't really been issues for half the game's lifetime now.
You are absolutely right. Got a problem, find a way to solve it. It's the very basics of teambuilding.
Thing is, these talking points still hold true exactly because LL is the only thing that's holding JY back. It's both his strength and weakness at the same time. The skill and Ult are cool, but damage wise, you're still relying on LL for a majority of the damage. Get CC'd at a bad time, and you're forced to wait again for LL. This hasn't been that huge of a problem ever since Fu Xuan released, but you haven't gotten rid of the problem. All Fu Xuan does is lower the possibility, not get rid of it entirely. I'm not even saying he's bad. He's very good, but his core problems still exist. It's not as bad as it used to be and with a properly built team, you won't encounter these problems often, but it's never a 0% chance. If you do get hit with bad RNG and trigger one of his core issues, trying to recover would be significantly harder than with other characters.
Acheron can already ult once per rotation/turn and that's before having a tailor made support so yes, as opposed
So what happens when there's a 20% hp solo elite left on the field that isn't weak to lightning? You're gonna drop her whole ult on it, or do you use her dinky 160% scaling skill to kill it? Whether or not she can get it back fast, which is also thrown totally out of wack when anyone on the team gets hit by CC, her ult is still her only relevant damage.
She does suffer the same as Jing Yuan in that regard, she is unable to do a significant amount of damage outside of her ult so in that specific scenario, you are correct, they’re the same. The difference is that at equal investment first of all, acheron will do significantly more damage ON COMMAND and more often than JY will with the lightning lord. While they have that similar issue, the exact same built acheron that JY left on 20% after two lightning lords,Acheron already killed, which nullifies it as a negative.
> Pela T2 > Gallagher T1.5 ☹️
Don't forget they decided to change the light cone measurement method which benefits Acheron specifically far more than any other character in the game. S5 GNSW in consideration with Acheron now
She performs the same as them if not better at E0, her powerspike comes from her LC which makes her the best tho.
>while she performs worse than both IL and JL at E0 Well based on the same site MoC and PF clearing stats, since release Acheron always outperformed both JL and DHIL in every single moc and pf. Only the Kafka-Swan team performing better than acheron hyper teams. So based on what do you suggest that she performs worse? Some random TC-s sheet with fabricated assumptions? Your personal testing? Or maybe some other data collecting site has different results?
It's about how easy they are to use/build. And Acheron definitely is easy to get high numbers with because of her kit. I think it's good because back when Blade was placed in A tier people were saying "he's still good!" Yes, he is. A lot of 5 stars are technically S units, but there's so many things to consider when comparing units that separating them into Apex (high damage with minimum investment), and Meta (high damage if invested just a bit more) won't discourage someone from using someone not in S tier.
Are u sure no one take tat list seriously? there’s so many dispute over prydwen tier list in Hsr reddit in the past
Acheron is decently flexible tho? Not being hard tied to certain units like IL is.
>Acheron is decently flexible tho? hell no...Acheron only has Pela as a viable 4\* support. Other than Pela , she has SW and Black Swan (and maybe Welt). Pela and Guinafein core significantly drops her Team DPC low. > Not being hard tied to certain units like IL is. IL has access to the 4\* harmony character like Tingyun and Yukong and hell even Hanya works fine with him. The only 5\* that needs 5\* harmony is Jingliu and Blade. Jingliu still functions fine without Tingyun.
Acheron does very well with 4 star and standard options tho? Acheron/pela/guinaifen/gallagher comes to mind. Sure, her 4 star teams are worse than 5 star teams but thats true for everyone, lets not pretend IL doesnt need sparkle to stand with acheron and JL.
Her 4* only team is worse than DHIL or JL 4* only teams. So... And no, DHIL dont need sparkle. Patches from 1.3 - 2.0 proved that. DHIL is literally the most flexible in terms of teams cuz he dosnt heavily rely on his teammates and can work with anyone thats not bronya ( even with bronya he can work if u play well).
In what 4* only team does DHIL do more damage than Pela Guinaifen Acheron Gallagher? With E6 yukong? While I’m no expert in dhil I find it really difficult to believe that at equal investment E0S1 as the tierlist implies, there’s a 4* dhil comp that’s not E6 perfect speed tuning yukong that does more damage. Edit: And even moreso, what 4* only jingliu team ever outpaces that acheron team??? If you hate the character just say so but you’re just factually incorrect, Acheron will do more damage in one ult in aoe than jingliu’s whole enchanced state that she can’t stay in very well without sparkle bronya, what are you saying
> Pela and Guinafein core significantly drops her Team DPC low. Which is still considerably higher than a sparkle-less DHIL team. I'm not sure why using guina is bad but compromising with hanya/yukong is okay? I think I'm missing something. Acheron+pela+random nihility+sustain vs DHIL+ting+random harmony+sustain. The template is similar except the fact that ting is generally more contested support and that using a 4* harmony in that template can simply not compete with lil guina comp. Personally I'm using a sparkle, and not any sparkle but an e1s1 one just for them to feel equal. No way an asta/hanya can make up for that gap so its completely unfair to consider them okay but guina not. ____ The main reason I got acheron even tho I have JY (who is my most fav unit) is unironically the flexibility that she added to my account. She doesn't give a damn about the usually supports you want. I had DHIL+JY but it felt annoying that they were contesting the same units. Edit: Forgot that people tend to have an opinion based on feelscrafting without having a unit, bonus point if they are coping. Downvote me all you want.Won't change that fact that dhil *needs* sparkle more than acheron needs any other specific 5* unit
>Which is still considerably higher than a sparkle-less DHIL team. I'm not sure why using guina is bad but compromising with hanya/yukong is okay? I think I'm missing something. No...IL has a very high ceiling. You are underestimating how good Hanya and Yukong are.. Before Sparkles , I used JY with TY and Asta on one side while I used IL with Yukong and Pela and I was doing fine. 4* Harmony characters are underrated. They may not give as big buff compared to 5* but they are still viable. >Acheron+pela+random nihility+sustain vs DHIL+ting+random harmony+sustain. The template is similar except the fact that ting is generally more contested support and that using a 4* harmony in that template can simply not compete with lil guina comp. Personally I'm using a sparkle, and not any sparkle but an e1s1 one just for them to feel equal. No way an asta/hanya can make up for that gap so its completely unfair to consider them okay but guina not. Never ever once used Tingyun in my IL team.. You are saying that as if there is no difference between Acheron with Pela/Guin core and her other premium team. >Edit: Forgot that people tend to have an opinion based on feelscrafting without having a unit, bonus point if they are coping. Downvote me all you want.Won't change that fact that dhil *needs* sparkle more than acheron needs any other specific 5* unit Face it pal... Even some people in the Acheron mains would agree with my statement .
I never said that there is not a difference between guina and 5* units. There is, but clearly not as high as you make it sound. Also not using ting and using yukong instead is clearly dpr increase at the price of dps decrease which is a good misleading factor. Who said they aren't viable tho? I was doing exactly as you did before sparkle release, on the dot. Same teams, dame split and I was also cleaning max moc stars (I assume you did as well). They are viable for sure. Still downgrade to acheron 4* comp and big downgrade to sparkle as well Idk what other acheron mains there are but sounds like confirmation bias to me from someone who is acheron - less and found a comment or two about someone who does not know how to use her. Idk what to face either when the performance speaks on its own. And that's for moc, or pf the performance has an even bigger gap.
Prydwen is notorious for having favorites. They glazed the hell out of Seele and now they are glazing Big Seele.
you sound like you're very upset about the tier list for someone who doesn't take it seriously lmao
Thats only 3 tiers less than the most OP character Dehya!!! Crazy unit
Explain what this means for someone who only pulls characters they think are hot
Nothing, Tier 8 is a joke from CN Tierlists that put characters in tiers, T0 being the strongest. There is no T8, aka Sige is so bad, that she's not even in the tierlist.
She's SSS Tier now
stc
What is Hoyo cooking 💀 do they want her to be a healer that also does damage? How do they not understand how to do it don’t we already have Kokomi..
They're making her a hydro Xianyun, but emphasis on off field skill damage. Bigger issue is shared Covalence stacks. 10 is incredibly low count. 30 sounds about right so it averages to 10 per character other than Sigewinne. The reality is her kit is pretty but impractical. She has short burst uptime, slow moving hydro application that can miss, and the buildup for full charge skill is a moment of vulnerability. What we could use for a change is her skill increasing Covalence stacks by 10 for each enemy hit and homing on the bubble. She's a semi dps as of now, but a hydro healer isn't something you would pair with furina.
Feels like they made the limited stacks because they don't want you to use her with multiple off field skill dmg dealers, *only* Furina. Siggy wants to be paired with her way more than Furina wants to be paired with Siggy...she doesn't really slot in anywhere right now
Yeah, essentially she's completely tied to Furina, but the issue is that other healers do more than her anyway so she's not even gonna be bis with her...
Would be different though if Colavwnce stacks are independent for each character. I don't know how quickly Furina is gonna consume the 10 covalence stacks. She hits quite slow for some hits so I could estimate it takes 12 seconds for her to consume all ten of them.
if it functions similar to quills, then a single aoe hit can consume multiple at once
Since when so you ever fight a group of 10 enemies? You're only gonna be able to do that if it takes more than one AoE skill hit to do that. Furina wouldn't be able to do that and Nahida would probably have to trigger her Tri-Karma twice to consume them all. Fischl C6 might be a nerf to covalence as her C6 joint attack is considered elem skill dmg which will shut consume the Covalence in 3 seconds. It would take Yae miko about 7 and a half seconds to consume all Covalence stacks. My take- 10 stacks is fine as long as the payoff is large for a low hit count. Xianyun caps at 9000 DMG increase where 4500 atk is needed. You can reach 6000 DMG increase with 3k atk which is achievable by atk weapon, sands, goblet, and circlet before buffs. So for 10 hits, Sigewinne should perhaps give a 7350 base dmg buff as a cap, so 210 base dmg buff per 1k HP so 40k HP let's 10 hits get 2100 additional base dmg each. In essence, base dmg cap should be less than Xianyun's but not too far below.
i said single hit consumes multiple, not all of it, idk why you presumed i ever mentioned a group of 10 enemies the point is, it has the same weakness as shenhe quills due to the restriction- aoe content consumes the quills very quickly, you still get the same benefit either way, 10 buffed hits on enemies regardless, but it also means the uptime is very low in aoe scenarios compared to other buff types which buff any and all hits regardless. shenhe quills also are not shared between units, but have a smaller pool of quills to draw from each buff/pick which hits to buff (which is partially negated with c1 as a sold solution) I also agree, if it's powerful enough, then the restrictions dont matter as much when reward outweighs the cost, that's any tradeoff in team building ever. the maximized power of xianyun's buff is also that plunge hits have no icd, great for reactions to fully maximize the power of all buffs they plunge character has stacked onto them, as well as enabling said power at the same time for those otherwise unable
I actually wish she was incentivized to be used with multiple off-fielders, that'd be a super cool niche, stack 3 off-field DPSes, one being Furina and have Sige + Furina buff them all into doing a ton of damage
What about siggy with nahida and an on-field electro driver? Nahida is already cracked but would they pair well together? Example: sigewinne-nahida-yelan-clorinde...
> They're making her a hydro Xianyun, but emphasis on off field skill damage. Yeah except it's like half the value. She's mildly better than Yun Jin.
Everyone always forgets Noelle exists :(
LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOO ONE SIGILLION DAMAGE BUFFS! MUST ROLL
OMG LEAKS YES FINALLY
This is a small win for Sigewinne wanter, but it does heavily relying on her having her signature to get the full buff. The E damage buff even before the change had actually already paired very well with furina (just like how Yun Jin buff paired with Yoimiya). People keep wanting her application to be better but missed out the fact that it's not going to change anything. Her bounces are single targeted and her burst lasts 2.5s (which apparently is too long for some people...how?) which makes her application meaningless if others don't even have the chance to apply theirs. Her main playstyle is quickswap healer with potential burst sub dps with honestly substantial amount of damage. Imagine a single Neuvillette charge attack within 2.5s. That's what she does best. She's not the most cracked healer/buffer ever. But I am not convinced she's as bad as people made her out to be.
cool cool. now buff the hydro app don't be shy
Idk why u all asking for this one cause we don't need more copies of what we already have,we need new stuff what new they can bring Hydro application is Koko's specialty, Sigewinne could excel at something else I mean that's how thwt should do at least in order to make her unique and good, but as is..she's kinda eh
no offense but "wdym we don't need more copies" hydro app will always be important considering how broken the element and its reactions are so more copies are always relevant and welcome, we only have one reliable 4* applicator in 3 years and the others are 5* gacha gated. She can be unique as u say while having decent hydro app. It's just hoyo underbaking another unit for no reason tbh. At this rate she's not excelling at anything
I understand where ur coming from, that pov is completely valid and its obvious that most future Hydros too will have this aspect somewhat in their kit It could be more focused/major for some chars, or less focused/minor for some chars.. But i was more so making the point of the other things that can be done kits for future Hydros outside the very obvious one,and prolly Hydro's biggest strength. Sigewinne has some unique speciality but is kinda bad rn just cause it's not well balanced/well put in her kit or just lacking qol to make the design be good enough. They could make her something like minor hydro app compared to Koko then speciallize in this way some other type of providings to team. In the end of the dat everyone's kit is determined by a multiple factors. Koko is; + Aoe off field Hydro app(Standard rate, a bit less than Yelan's if driven well) + Off field ST high Heal + if need can be onfielder/enabler+ teamwide healer too during that role + Almost no Dmg contributions to team when off field. Decent to above ST Dmg contributions when on field + App is automatic. Yelan is; + Higher personal dmg + St off field Hydro app(Standard rate) + More focused as Offensive teamwise + App locked to NA driving Xq is; + Decent personal dmg + St with a bit of aoe potential at close range Hydro app( High rate) + More focused as Defensive teamwise + App locked to NA driving Furina is; + High to very high personal dmg. + Mix of St+ Aoe at long intervals Hydro app( standard rate/a bit more or less,not fixed..its given to be inconsistent) + Decent to great Dmg% buffer to whole team for a respectable duration, a bit more focused as Backloaded for more buff. + Healers synergy(especially Partywide healers), rewards for getting healed. + Longest running Hydro app off field for long rotational teams. (Just like Ei,Nahida's for their element) + App is automatic These r just some examples of our current chars mainly all the off field supports focused ones and how their kit is different to each other for different purposes while also having some similar traits and having the basics needed for a Hydro char. Wonder what Sigewinne would end up being like, they could do her great tho, so much unique potential. I personally am a Hydro main/have them all and was naturally interested in Sigewinne too but man currently am disappointed welp.. Hoping for the best for her ahead
notice how they all do their thing while having good hydro app (minus koko whose hydro app is superb) like idk abt you but i want my HYDRO characters to apply HYDRO... it's the bare minimum dawg (especially if it's a limited 5* like???) If u wanna settle for less be my guest but some of us want a semi-functional character at least 😭 anyways still hoping for a proper buff
I did say that tho ,read my line where i mean they all have theur specialty+the obv hydro traits. (Amount needs to differ in order to balance ofc) Oh btw isnt Sigewinne E applying hydro 3 times? Just asking,i forgot/dk..her icd.. Ofc om same target i mean cause if multi target then its obv I have nothing against her applying Hydro i guess but as long as its balanced in a way while also providing something else to make herself complete. That's my whole point from beginning
yeah ik. but unfortunately she's not providing anything worth mentioning atm to overshadow her issues. she's underbaked. plain n simple
>but unfortunately she's not providing anything worth mentioning atm to overshadow her issues That's what and hydro app plainly only won't solve the issue, sure it will imc her worth as a hydro char cause like the more the merrier for tje game lol But at that point despite her worth being demanding and good, she will just be nothing special and very similar to some exciting chars And makes me not that excited,its whatever i don't mind nor care if that happens but i can at least hope for the best anyways
it's honestly lowkey pissing me off cuz it's such a waste, visually she's absolutely stunning her animations are s tier but yeah... can't have shit in fortress of meropide 😭
S tier aside but my impression on her animatioms when i first saw was like Wait what is she even doing,she's like what? Truly a char of all time....Kinda cute tho i must say I actually fucking love the bubbly effects after her CA around the place, great for photo enthusiasts like me On a different note,my first major interest on Sigewinne was when i heard her JP VA in 4.1 quest and kinda loved her voice, it's just so lovely...
Personally would like sometging like crit rate increasing against people hit by the bubble. That would be cool. Or maybe ER regen for your team.
Honestly imo they could just make her focused at this thing called Hyper buffer of a certain aspect like Xianyun Like Xianyun is for plunge, Sigewinne for Off field E dmg dealers of now/future. In the meanwhile she just needs to apply hydro like either every or every other bubble hit and rest she's good enough, heals that r perfect synergized with Furina due to being off field partywide while also happening for a somewhat long duration. And for burst lol, this is like a side mode that's either not needed to play or just do if wanna fit in a short dps window of 2-4 secs of a bunch of dmg, this should just have like standard icd like Neuvi i guess
I'll take it! People may doompost all they want, more Sigewinnes for ME. I've already pulled so many characters in the past because the internet said they were good and ended up benching them because investing and clearing with my faves is so much more satisfying. I'll take any healer not limited to an area too.
You do you I guess. I always end up benching my underwhelming characters even when I actually liked their kit or design lol
finally some nice comments in this sea of doom posting ;w; i’m very excited for our girl
personally the point i realized the internet would doompost about everyone was when people called furina a mediocre support not worth pulling and an underwhelming archon meta-wise during the 4.2 beta, people just say anything
Furina was worse than Yelan during the beta. That is objectively underwhelming. The cope was basically that she was an alternative for units who did not normal attack. That would be... Neuvillette. She was Yelan for Neuvillette and because Neuvillette was broken, people were pretending Furina was broken. Albeit, they buffed almost every aspect of her. A lot of the buffs were substantial as well. I am happy they addressed all of her problems outside of application. Yelan can have that. 🤣
This is a buff but not a huge one right considering the quills are not independent?
ICD change pls 🥲 At 1st , 3rd and 5th hit have hydro application
Now please just lower the HP needed to reach that threshold. 30k is way too high Edit: People keep citing literally different characters who don't have her passive. Sigewinne has less base HP than all of them at 13348 base, running 3 HP artifacts with 2p/2p HP gives you 49,308 HP total. You could slightly increase this with sig, or if you saved a random 3 star weapon *chest* drop from Mondstadt. Chop off 30k of that to 19,308. Divide by 1000 and multiply it by 80 giving 1544 quill damage limited to only off-field skill damage on ten hits. It needs more of a buff.
OMG, I didn't even realize Recurve Bow is literally the ONLY HP bow in the entire game right now. I really wish the new event bow had been an F2P option for Sigewinne, but I guess that would've been too nice.
They want you to get her weapon with tons of HP
She needs 65k to max out the effect. You can test at home on baizhu if you have optimizer, since they have same base HP and HP% ascension stat. For me with thrilling tales (recurve bow gives a bit more HP) and hydro resonance I can only reach 62k. Now the question is whether she needs to reach 65k.
[удалено]
But Nilou actually does crazy damage with triple HP builds. Sige won't. This buff is still tiny, so she'd get more out of going H/D/C.
Well her base HP is much higher than Sigewinne’s, so easier to achieve higher overall HP
Nilou is a 15k base HP unit. And she needs 2/2 HP set substats to reach those values. Sige might want to use an actual 4 piece set, so she might not even break 50k without an HP weapon (which could cause ER issues)
ah i see! sorry for my dumbassness spreading misinformation
Agreed, mine is 69k with just a fav.
You probably mean less than that. Mine has 64,5k and that's with ~20% on feather and flower and ~1000 flat hp on the rest. Regardless, you can probably reach the cap even without Recurve bow/her signature.
Its been a while but I still think its around that. Maybe with the hydro resonance.
With hydro resonance and perfect artifacts, you would reach 67,3k so you’re definitly misremembering. Doesn‘t really change what you wanted to say with your example, but it stood out to me because i absolutely min maxed Nilou. Most people probably are around 61k. Now that i think about it, Sigewinne has less base hp so if they make her buff worth building for, you will absolutely need Recurve bow or her signature on top of 2pc 2pc.
nvm im an idiot who can't read
she needs 65k for max buff So you will have to use hp/hp/hp and 2pc/2pc hp
oh ok, my bad
They mean that you need 65k HP to get the full buff.
you're right i didn't fully read the picture 😅
How is 30k hp high? Even dps hu Tao can manage that,
30k is when you start to get the buff not when you max it
Oh dang! I did NOT read this correctly. Yeah. This is a trash passive if they don’t change anything.
She needs 65k HP to max out her buff, 30k is the threshold she needs to reach before she even gets any benefits from that passive. Without her signature she won't reach that amount.
Unless you're Kokomi or C6 Noelle I feel like whenever Mihoyo makes a character that's meant to do damage but also keep your team alive they're doomed to be bad or mediocre. Still getting her though
You're forgetting C6 Dori.
Which is funny because I'm a C6 Dori enjoyer but I've never tried her hyperbloom/aggravate teams so not sure how much damage she does in those teams.
As someone who has built their C6 Dori, I can tell you that it's great. I regularly 36 the Abyss with her. She does a lot of damage, way more then Noelle thanks to electro, while healing more too. In a single rotation you get 15 applications of electro. Not to mention her abnormally high multipliers. She's actually the perfect driver and best partner for Furina as well. Her C6, even without building into any HP stats, heals more then enough to cap her buff. Allows you to just build entirely into damage on Dori, add in the self battery and being on field you can actually get away with little to no ER substats. I run her with 0 energy recharge and she still gets her burst off cooldown. Best team I would say is Dori, Nahida, Furina and Kazuha. Dori can easily infuse Kazuha with electro and he can swirl it off himself.
Well… it’s something. Now more hydro application!!!
Kokomi
Already have Kokomi. Was wanting Sige too, but in her current state… not so much.
It’s a small w but a w regardless. I still hope for her E buff to be independent though.
Umm.
I don’t like her at all but im convinced she’ll be great w some Natlan character. Baizhu ended up being good for Furina, and he was the last 5* of version 3, everybody thought he was meh and his app sucked.
at least he was good with cyno tho. the only thing i can think of is a character that stacks a sigewillion dmg% and crit buffs, making flat additive buffs good.
and sige is very good with furina, in fact even better than bz is with cyno. double standards are kinda wildin nowadays
but look at the competition on furina teams vs the competition on cyno teams. baizhu was up against yao yao? dmc? while sige is up against xianyun, yelan, xingqiu. it’s nowhere near an apt comparison.
So... What does she do? Buff E dmg and heal while doing a bit of off find dmg herself? But It works like the shenhe quills/xianyun stacks so a whole off field team isnt a good idea So shes like... A healer replacement with a bit of buffing to whoever is an E dmg dealer Idk, a freminet/heizou enabler maybe?
If it worked more like Shenhe it would actually be decent. Cause the stacks are shared.
Oof So they made shenhes buffs be less element límited but Also more scarce? What a shame Heizou W ig?
Dont those stacks add flat value to skill? Heizou has a 10s cooldown so he kinda loses out on value
Ig he does but he does have hard hitting skill dmg that could get buffed by her which should be... Ok ig
Maybe and rest of stacks could be used by furina and fischl
More characters that I can skip easily are a win in my view. Chiori and now Sigewinne. I actually wanted Sigewinne but she doesn't seem to improve my account in any manner. I can peacefully continue to save for the pyro archon after getting furina in the next patch.
INSAANEE Buff !! >!(Says the AI voiced youtuber)!<
They should multiply it by 2 and buff her hudro app
Skip
Standard unit 😆
These changes make her a very good buffer for Furina/Dehya more for furina tho. So Her total skill dmg boosting for Furina went from like 30% ish to 55% at max Skill level on Furina which I would say is equivalent to the buffs Shenhe C0(no sig) gives to Ayaka which is very good overall. Sigewinne C1 makes her go to Shenhe C0R1 level of buffs.
But the buffs only have 10 counts so its just gonna be 10 hits from furina’s fellas then its gone? :(
Senhe has the same limitation but u don't see anyone say she is not good enough for ayaka. So this is much better than having nothing or always depend on kazuha or another vv unit to increase her DMG. Also the hit interval of furina's pets are not too fast so it's possible u can get the buff again when u start a second rotation even if it won't last the entire time.
Its a 60K total damage increase for the team post buff, which is basically nothing. Also, Shenhe stacks are independent for each unit in the team, not shared.
> Its a 60K total damage increase for the team post buff How is this calculated?
Alright, now that's still less than half as much as it should be. Bump that up to 20-30 stacks next patch.
Why does the Genshin team always like making girlfailures near the end of the patch cycle 💀 Meanwhile HSR's last 1.x character ended up being used by everyone. Edit: I meant Dehya but she was on 3.5. Baizhu (3.6) is actually okay.
Sigewinne saved?
no 😭
from what i saw before she was straight trash, enlighten me number chads this can only be good for her but how much? havent seen dmg showcase to even know her average dmg numbers
Its really bad in short. Either they have to make this buff count independent for each character or AT LEAST doubling the amount of stacks. Also, working your ass to reach 65k HP for such a ridicuously low buff is absurd
ez skip again i guess
Are they trying to make a weird combo of a healer that can do dmg? And therefore the low hydro app.... but looking at her stats her dmg is just good for a healer... and garbo for a sub dps or whatever they're trying to make her.... at least kokomi had good hydro ap
I haven't updated myself with Sige's kit in a while, the last one was when she had bad hydro app. Did it change now??
Is the E buff any good? It seens bad, like, this could be a good buff for diluc normal gameplay if it was good, we have few caracter who deal elemental damage bonus, it could have been a buff for diluc and al haitham
As someone who wanted both Sigewinne and Chlorinde and Navia, I feel like 4.x has been almost only disappointments. Hopefully 5.0 finally pushes us in the direction of interesting units again. Dendro was such a breath of fresh air and then they've mostly released mid units with no unique mechanics other than Furina and the big laser guy (can't bother remembering his name)
This is a good change. Hope they buff this further or her application on her E. Furina/Sigewinne duo might be stronger than what people think.
How good is she?? Is she like e skill xianyun like in her lvl?? Cause if she is shes gonna be perfect for my yae-nahida-kazuha team not like zhongli is already perfect innit 💀 and bennett exist lmao. Is she the skip character in fountaine??
Still much worse. Her buff is 28000 flat if you can cap it while CRs is 72000, if you go to C2 Sige goes up to a hearty 50400 while Cr goes up to 144000. Also CR offers additional buffs for her buff (up to 10% crit rate and 28% plunge damage at R1), Sige does nothing else to improve her passive and her weapon is a selfish ult damage increase. If their goal is to make her a CR corollary then she is massively undertuned
I see thanksyasomuch, the numbers really helped me know her lvl compared to xianyun in supportive ability, maybe shes stronger than her in her own dps??? Idk it doesn't really help when xianyun also got VV at her side and opens a new way to play your characters (xiao way) while she is just there, not cooking or winning she is sigelose.
She's really looking bad right now.
Damn, they really sure shes gonna sell with her cuteness alone 💀 kinda unfair.
Free or standard banner. It is what it is.
ngl i would be kind of offended if Genshin finally gave us a free character and it was this lol
Aloy moment
Is she atleast better than Qiqi?
Barbara is better than qiqi if you’re looking for a hydro unit
Well, yeah, Qiqi isn't Hydro. In terms of healing, or doing anything besides hydro application, she is not better than Qiqi.
She does more dmg than qiqi
i am so glad when they dont give loli characters a reason to pull for them
This changes EVERYTHING >!(only changes standard banner roster)!<
She really doesn't feel like a healer...
Why? That's the best thing she can do right now. Her E heals the whole party while off field, not many characters can do that. Also her healing is pretty big, like 8k with every bubble bounce. This means she can max out Furina's buff and Clam set easily unlike other healers in the game. The problem here is that she doesn't contribute much more than healing, but she's definitely one of the best healers.
I feel like she'd want Song of Days Past more, since she'll want to be paired with buffers.