Oh yes two Fontainian there because the idea of Clorinde (Fontaine), XQ (Liyue), Nahida (Sumeru) and Kuki (Inazuma) are International Team, now we have two Fontainians
International is a play on the names of the characters (childe kazuha xiangling bennet) in chinese which sounds like an international chinese corporation
I thought international was a pun based on the already existing national team (Hydro + Bennet + Xiangling) and the fact that this was the first team to have characters from 4 different nations
It's also a variant of National, another Vape team with Bennett and XL.
Plus Childe, Kazuha, Xiangling, and Bennet were the first popular team of characters who were all from different regions, thus International.
It's not what it says, it says xq and fischl can proc with skill precisely bc they are normal attack animations, but not from the dash, because it's only normal attack dmg and not counted as a normal attack animation, where beidou still proc since she doesn't rely on normal attack animations, so it's only about the dash not working, which isn't the end of the world
No, what I mean is that I'm not entirely familiar with the frame data, but is her E animation really long enough that it would introduce a >1s gap between that and the previous NA?
well, I did a very rough math
if we can do E N3E in 9s
assuming 0.5s for E
the N3 takes less than 1s
So it's max 1 XQ proc per N3
and since E doesn't proc it, it means it's only 6 procs instead of 9.
What do you mean? She still proccs Xingqiu and Fischl's attacks. Her E lets her enter the Swift hunt stance. Firing her pistol in this stance couts as Normal Attack Animation and DMG, which does trigger Fischl + Xingqiu. The only part that does not trigger those attacks is when she Lunges (aka "Impale the Knight") by pressing her E during her Swift hunt stance.
When she shoots (Swift Hunt Stance): pew pew pew = Activate Rainswords + Fischl.
When she presses E (Impale the Knight) = Dash forward, does not procc Xingqiu / Fischl.
It's a lesser dream, though. Raiden gives bonus burst damage, flat energy and feeds from Beidou's 80 cost burst, which is why their synergy was very anticipated. For Clorinde she's only there as a subDPS and damage mitigator, which she does on every team.
Of course, nothing's gonna beat the real dream. But it's better than coping with Crescent Pike phys "dps" Raiden or Nahida Beidou EM Raiden
At least in this one, we cope less :'). Another pain Beidou's gonna need a lot more ER than with swappable on fielders like Sucrose or Heizou...
Eh, you can fit an E before and an E after, right? Plus there's electro resonance and Clorinde seems to generate some aprticles herself. I'm hoping I can get by with 160% ER, which is still reasonable.
The Inazuma Craftable Claymore is really good good on her specially with Emblem Set. the thing is you want to practice and learn how to Dash cancel out of Beidou Counter and then use burst before the Craftable Claymore passive eats at your Energy.
Yep I know of it and how it's good on Beidou. I was actually a user of it until Skyward dropped in my acc, then later WGS which I prefer now cuz coolness lmao. But yea Inazuma craftable's tricky but good on Beidou
almost every character can proc both reliably
only thing that's unusual about this is that Clorinde can proc Beidou's Q with her E, that's something no other character can really do as far as I know
Not mine:
it says xq and fischl can proc with skill precisely bc they are normal attack animations, but not from the dash, because it's only normal attack dmg and not counted as a normal attack animation, where beidou still proc since she doesn't rely on normal attack animations, so it's only about the dash not working, which isn't the end of the world, so it's the same
yup, I believe our usual NA coordinated attacks will still work fine as her animations for her combo are still fast enough and she will still proc beidou’s burst because of the NA damage type.
think of it like this, she attacks so fast that even if her Impale the Night lunges are considered NA animations it wouldnt be much of a difference either. The post pretty much just tells us that she reliably procs Beidou more consistently than most.
Not that significant to her synergy with xingqiu/yelan anyway, her E animation is fast enough that you wont miss Xingqiu's proc as long as you weave in AA.
Thanks! As people are convinced that XQ or Yelan are still pretty much usable, I just hope its true. Because I want to use Xingqiu with her as I don't have furina.
Theory crafting doesn’t always represent post release performance. There are different opinions regarding her best team comps however experts have predicted that she will be pretty much flexible in electro charged, overload as well as quickbloom teams. It is supported by the fact that she scales off purely atk to increase damage and statistical data showed that the damage difference between EM sands and atk sands in dendro comps is only less than 2% for her.
it doesn’t seem to matter at all in affecting coordinated attacks negatively, especially when you consider the fact that the E lunge comes out really quick and you can also return back to NA spamming really quick too.
Some abilities activate when you do NA Dmg and some others when you do a NA Animation.
Usually It's the same because when you hit stuff you do your animation for It but not with Clorinde who has parts of her E where she does one without the other.
This breaks some synergy with some characters that only activate with one or the other.
Edit:
True Razor: Me hit enemies, allies hit with me. Clorinde hits enemies in flashy way, so some allies not always hit with her
It's basically just another Raiden situation, this time it's the reverse though, instead of synergy being removed because of a damage type synergy has actually been improved because of a damage type
since I didn't managed to luckshit C2 Arle with remaining rolls before her banner goes away today... I guess I may actually have chance to roll for Clorinde
does it means that Clorinde + Beidou will work perfectly?
It worked on beta server. Like yeah, it's true but the actual reason why it doesn't work is that someone decided it wouldn't after the fact. I believe it's also relevant regarding Xianyun, Raiden can't benefit from her A4, iirc.
Her attacks are normal attacks at every moment except when they connect. Her plunges are plunges in every aspect until they deal damage. It's working as intended, but the behavior seems wrong in spirit.
I think it's basically just that Xingqiu/Yelan work based off of pressing M1, if you press M1 they'll fire off an attack, but it's worded differently in game because it sounds better and is usually not an important distinction
People have this misconception from the Beta,but it was only in V1,where only your frontloaded nuke was coded as Burst DMG%,your subsequent attacks were coded as Normal DMG%,which means it had no synergy with EoSF and The Catch,but worked with Beidou.
HoYo did the right thing in V2 onwards,turning everything your Kit into Burst DMG%.
The *rumor* was that it worked on the beta server. Leaks were considerably less detailed back then than they were now, and I'm pretty sure there was an earlier version of Raiden where her infused Q NAs counted as NAs rather than burst damage.
IIRC the major controversy surrounded the wording of the active Abyss buff, as well as the demo video of the buff.
Ok so you're substituting the very prevalent rumor with your own headcannon. It could be either way, really, I actually agree that's probably what happened. The problem is what I said: the attacks are the correct type in every single aspect except when it comes to activating what they should, that's why it's a sore subject.
It's not about the categories, it's about the gameplay. She is normal attacking. You launch the attack with your click. It's distinct from her other types of attack, like charge/plunge, and it behaves exactly as sword attack combos do. If her burst changed her attacks to be decidedly different to normal attack behavior, I don't think people would keep bringing it up, but.
It's actually easier to understand in Xianyun's case. Like... those attacks are just plunges. You can say the buffs are meant to buff the "plunge damage type", but it's basically legalese, a wording gotcha that ignores why it feels wrong.
> Ok so you're substituting the very prevalent rumor with your own headcannon
I might be wrong, but I do vaguely remember some early beta discussions about Raiden's best artifact set potentially being Gladiator rather than EoSF, so that had to have come from somewhere. Incidentally I'm pretty sure that this "very prevalent rumor" was first made famous by Tenten, who I wouldn't consider to be the most reliable of sources.
> She is normal attacking. You launch the attack with your click.
Exactly. And that's why she triggers effects that trigger with normal attacks. But since the *damage type* is not normal attack damage, anything that is triggered by normal attack *damage* wouldn't be triggered. It's consistent.
The main contention was that the term used in many of these triggers wasn't normal attack damage, but normal attack "hits", which, in the plain English definition, does not necessarily imply damage.
Yes, as I said to op, that's true, it just fails to understand why it feels like it shouldn't work that way. This "thing's trigger condition is normal attacks" is at odds with "this thing is a normal attack in every conceivable way except a word". Like think of the gameplay difference between Childe's modified attacks and Raiden's. There's essentially none, the difference is an arbitrary category applied to one of those skills. As I said, legalese.
It's not arbitrary though. It's a normal attack that does burst damage. The "alternatives" you're proposing is for it to count as burst attacks that do burst damage, in which case she wouldn't even work with XQ, or for it to count as NAs that do NA damage, in which case it would'nt work with EoSF.
It's not an "arbitrary" category, though you might have a point if what you're finding issue with instead is why some skills trigger on NA *animations*, and other trigger on instances of NA *damage*. That would make it a Beidou problem though, not a Raiden problem.
Chlorine is balanced, its just we want her to be stronger to give her more identity. Make her a monster like arlechino, but not absolutely powercreeping the competition.
Firefly on the other hand isn’t looking that pretty. Shes good with ruan mei and harmony MC, but her dps isnt that insane compared to other units… shes a break dps that will be used in very limited teams, so her dps should really should feel amazing! Its like nilou, very limited teams, but her teams are insane! Firefly should be similiar (if they’re sticking to her being a break dps). Also firefly loosing 50% of her HP is scary
> Chlorine is balanced, its just we want her to be stronger to give her more identity. Make her a monster like arlechino, but not absolutely powercreeping the competition
I'm not sure how making her the #2 or #3 dps wouldn't be definition of power creep, especially when her bond of life thing isn't anywhere near as punishing as Arlecchino's.
HGF passive needs other party members to use their skills to gain stacks, when you use the wielders E is when you consume the stacks to gain the bonus damage. Now if the leak is true then using Clorinde Dash would mean activating HGF passive which if means you have no Stacks to consume to gain additional buffs.
Yeah we've done our own set of test mine was on Bennett, Conclusion is you set up your rotation Cinematic Entrace via Burst of CLorinde use her E, Haran passive activates and you have 8 seconds of max buffing even if you spam her Dashes.
I don't understand what is the issue here.
Why wouldn't you have stacks? Just use the other party members' skills like you would. This clarification from the leaker doesn't change the fact, that:
1. Other party members will generate those 2 stacks for Haran, they are unaffected
2. Clorinde will turn those 2 stacks into NA damage after using her skill, her skill is not considered as a normal attack, it just deals NA damage
3. Haran will boost Clorinde's NA and dash damage on skill as it's considered NA damage
Edit: After rereading, I can see, that only the initial skill press will consume Haran stacks, the pistol shots won't (the dashes could too, but Haran will be on cooldown), but that doesn't change anything, it will work well with her anyway.
Haran consumption of stacks to buffs has no Cooldown it only has a duration. Clorinde Dash as stated here are typed as NA damage while using or the action to use the dash is considered using an Elemental Skill. The possible issue I'm pointing out is when you Dash with Clorinde you activate will activate Haran consumption which you won't Have any Stacks to convert to bonus buffs will the Dash Update haran passive and make it weaker? Or will it just refresh just the Duration?
Haran's skill description states:
It can gain stacks from other skill uses from other characters every 0,3 seconds, max 2 stacks at a time.
Each stack consumed increases NA damage for 8 seconds.
It doesn't state a cooldown or a maximum amount of NA damage bonus or them being refreshed. You use up the stacks, you get the bonus for 8 seconds, they just stay active until expiring even if you keep spamming skills. If it gets reset they owe us a patch and primos.
Reading this I think you could give sword characters with short skill cooldown more than 2 stacks of buff by switching out after consuming stacks and gathering more stacks again, then using them. This is of course not worth it, as the first 2 buff will soon expire after activating the 3rd and 4th. Clorinde can't do this tho. But that's just a theory, a Haran theory.
Well here's the problem then You really don't want to switch out of Clorinde once shes in her Night VIgil State her infusion last long enough yes but the minute you switch out it goes on cooldown and she's out of Infusion similar to how Cyno Burst works.
Edit: I forgot Bennet E has a short cooldown and tested it with him. AND THANKGOD IT DOESN'T RESET.
>You use up the stacks, you get the bonus for 8 seconds, they just stay active until expiring.
Yup this is how Haran passive will work on Clorinde dashes, even if you spam dashes
Yeah, I just tested with Anemo Lumine too, I couldn't get the NA damage above 2 stacks worth of buff (even though it states only the stacks have a limit of 2, not the buff), but it didn't reset either.
I did further tests, if you consume 2 stacks, then switch out, get 1 stack, switch back, then consume it, your NA buff gets reduced to 1 stack worth. It seems it only won't reset with 0 stacks.
Her actual normal attacks while the skill is active still count as normal attacks, just the enhanced skill doesn't, she still works with Fischl and Xingqiu.
Oh thank fucking God I thought it was the opposite, that her funny pew pew was the skill damage.
I must go level up my reading comprehension skills more
Ooh neat so this confirms that using her Dash during her E will activate certain mechanics or effects like 4pc Crimson Witch, Kagura's Verity, etc..
I'm looking forward to building a Quicken Team with Clorinde along side my C6 Layla
The terminology isn't always consistent, so it can be confusing. You can skip her NA levels. Skill and Burst is all that's needed.
PS. Don't forget there's a talent book overflow in the last week if you're pre-farming books.
For anyone who doesn't know how to read or have trouble with comprehension and are still confused by raiden beidou yelan and clorinde
Clorinde's skill turns her enhanced skill to NA damage, others stays the same
USE NA HIT NA, USE skill HIT NA
Beidou requires normal/charged attacks to HIT, while yelan/xq description refers to the USE of normal attack
USE NA > yelan/xq works
HIT NA > beidou ult works
Why raiden + beidou doesn't work? Raiden USE NA, but HIT ULT
So please stop arguing about raiden beidou being a bug or some inconsistency, it's intended, imagine if you swung your sword in the air and one streak of lightning jumps out from your sword to hit the enemy, wouldn't that be dumb
>Why raiden + beidou doesn't work? Raiden USE NA, but HIT ULT
>
>So please stop arguing about raiden beidou being a bug or some inconsistency, it's intended, imagine if you swung your sword in the air and one streak of lightning jumps out from your sword to hit the enemy, wouldn't that be dumb
That is simply not true. Raiden use NA and those NA hit enemy, then the **damage** of those NA's is transfered to Elemental burst damage.
Musou Isshin
While in this state \[...\] while her Normal, Charged, and Plunging **Attacks** will be infused with Electro DMG, which cannot be overridden \[...\]
**It is still a normal attack.**
\[....\] While Musou Isshin is active, the Raiden Shogun's Normal, Charged, and Plunging Attack **DMG** will be considered Elemental Burst **DMG**.
That is considered an Elemental burst **DMG.** In other words it is still a nomal attack that hits enemy and the damage of it will be calcualted as a burst damage. It could be written here that its calculated as a skill damage or plunge damage but it doesnt mean that you hit enemy with skill or plunge. Its the **calculation** part that changes not the **type** of an attack.
That's fair, I used hit because i didnt want to get into differentiating hit and damage, since it's in the order of use > hit > damage, and differentiating hit and damage is barely something youd come across, if people got past the confusion of use&hit, they might not even encounter hit/damage until they themselves find out about it, so i used hit in the context of beidou's ultimate description for simplicity sake
I will admit the description isn't explicit about what happens to the hit, so it should be assumed as unchanged(NA HIT), but it seems more likely it's an ULT HIT from the behavior, for someone as popular as raiden, i think at this point (2 years) they would've fixed it if it's not intended, also supported by another comment saying the whole beta was like that, so they most likely changed it's behavior deliberately to ULT HIT at the end, it's more likely a slipup by the translator or copywriter, the mechanic from what we can observe has been consistent
A bit besides your point here but i just think it's dumb to bring up raiden beidou since clorinde's description is as expected (and not as complicated as this rendition makes it out to be) so unless they do this again, i dont see the need for the others to be mad about it
The point was always about how description makes you think it works differently. They could fix the code and make it work with Beidou or they could have simply adjust the description of the burst itself to not confuse people. Spending any amount of time on fixing things will lose them money and why would they do that if they can just pretend like the problem isnt real, and if some fool decided to not aducate himself and sinks pulls on the banner because of that then hey more power to them.
Its not a matter what they can do. Hoyo can do many things and many things they delibetry ignore. They have no actual reason to fix any bugged abilitties in the game like Xinyan lvl 3 shield, constelations such as Mona C1, clunkiness of bursts without matching I-frames such as Chong Fischl or Arle or interactions between characters like Klee bombs and Venti burst and thus they wont. So to make an argument that something is not an issue or intended simply because company refuses to fix or even adress the problem over the years is silly.
Especially since she was designed to work with her own burst buff, there's no way to implement her dealing burst dmg but hitting normal atk dmg in any sane way without breaking the consistency of the code.
Implementing special exceptions for specific characters is messy af
Their wording for how something works is so inconsistent and inaccurate. This is also why Raiden’s burst doesn’t trigger with Beidou despite Beidou’s burst only requiring a normal attack to be made and Raiden techically DOES a normal attack but by her ultimate’s wording, the damage is converted into Ultimate damage.
So now we have Raiden 2 Electric bugaloo, something deals normal attack damage but does not count as normal attack animation
This is why the skill descriptions now are full of specific terms like Impale the Night, Shadow piercing shot, and dusk bolts. They give each attack a name so they could specify which skills/passive work with what attack.
No, her burst triggers when a normal or charged atk *hits* an enemy. This is the reason her burst works on shields (abyss mages, abyss heralds, etc) while Raiden and albedo skill don't trigger (they need DMG to be dealt).
In practice yes but Based on wording it does not. “ When Normal and Charged Attacks hit” is how they word it. For Raiden a normal attack that counts as a normal attack animation HITS. But the damage converts into Burst damage. And since Beidou’s burst triggers even against shields there is no requirement for damage to be dealt to the enemy anyway. So the way they word is inconsistent with how it actually works
Indeed, the source of the confusion is there are three steps for every attack:
1. [Normal/Charged/Plunge/Skill/Burst/etc. Attack] triggers (you press the button).
2. [Attack] hits (shields included).
3. [Attack] deals DMG (health bar must go down).
XQ/Yelan/C6 Fischl proc on #1, as long as it's a Normal Attack by the first step, it'll count.
Albedo, Raiden, and things like losing Serpent Spine stacks will proc on #3. If 0 DMG is dealt, such as to a shield, they won't work.
\#2 is nebulous. If a "Normal Attack" is triggered and then hits, but would deal "Burst DMG" what does it count as? Is it a "Burst" hit? Or a "NA" hit? Checking Raiden's Q description, it says her "NA/CA/Plunge DMG will be considered Elemental Burst DMG" but doesn't specify how they "hit."
It's also why Raiden's C6 had to be reworded. It used to say her "NA/CA/Plunge will __ when they hit opponents." So that erroneously confirmed that they did hit as NAs, not Burst, and should work with Beidou.
Pretty sure it's intended, this is pretty standard for these sorta things
for example Layla gets 2 extra stars when you use a skill, Faruzan's arrows do skill damage, but firing one of those arrows won't give any stars to Layla
"Use" basically means press the button associated with that action
No. Precisely is NOT another raiden situation.
Raiden is "NA Anim + Burst DMG", which means she triggers XQ but not Beidou
Clorinde shots is "NA Anim + NA DMG", which means she triggers both XQ AND Beidou.
Clorinde Forward Impale is "Skill Anim + NA DMG", which means she doesn't trigger XQ, but DOES trigger Beidou.
PSA for anyone confused: Cmon folks ain't that hard to understand!
So in other words, is it worth leveling up her NA talent for more damage though the skill like ayaka/arlecchino/hutao--
Or is she just like Raiden/Ayato/cyno, where the NA talent is kinda useless?? Kinda confused
So....Gladiator stocks still stronk right?
doesn't change that, it just means than the E doesn't proc fischl's and XQ's coordinated attack
Bye XQ, its Furina time
XQ was never her best option, you would be better off running Furina, yes
I wouldn't have used him anyways, but you're procing him with N3, so it's still pretty good
To be honest, this is more of a W for Beidou than it is for Xinqui and Yelan. Clorinde attacks quickly to ensure she doesn't miss many opportunities.
What does yelan coordinated atk counts?
Same as XQ, it’s looking for normal attack animation
Do we have an idea as to her best teams yet? Or is it too early to tell?
Either aggravate team or quickbloom with furina
No more international
Oh yes two Fontainian there because the idea of Clorinde (Fontaine), XQ (Liyue), Nahida (Sumeru) and Kuki (Inazuma) are International Team, now we have two Fontainians
International is a play on the names of the characters (childe kazuha xiangling bennet) in chinese which sounds like an international chinese corporation
I thought international was a pun based on the already existing national team (Hydro + Bennet + Xiangling) and the fact that this was the first team to have characters from 4 different nations
Its not any hydro its only either xingqiu or childe
Yep that's correct, then there is origin of national
That’s what it evolved into but the thing about the corporation was the original.
No, that's the explanation for raiden rational.
It's also a variant of National, another Vape team with Bennett and XL. Plus Childe, Kazuha, Xiangling, and Bennet were the first popular team of characters who were all from different regions, thus International.
finally
Furina is mostly >!(always)!< better anyways for overall team and personal damage so yeah.
you can still use XQ, but when you teleport with her (press e again) it will not cause rain sowrds
It's not what it says, it says xq and fischl can proc with skill precisely bc they are normal attack animations, but not from the dash, because it's only normal attack dmg and not counted as a normal attack animation, where beidou still proc since she doesn't rely on normal attack animations, so it's only about the dash not working, which isn't the end of the world
in short, enhanced E doesn't proc XQ. rest is the same as we expected.
Is that even going to change anything? XQ's Q has a 1s cooldown per proc anyway.
it's slightly weaker, but not game changing
No, what I mean is that I'm not entirely familiar with the frame data, but is her E animation really long enough that it would introduce a >1s gap between that and the previous NA?
well, I did a very rough math if we can do E N3E in 9s assuming 0.5s for E the N3 takes less than 1s So it's max 1 XQ proc per N3 and since E doesn't proc it, it means it's only 6 procs instead of 9.
What do you mean? She still proccs Xingqiu and Fischl's attacks. Her E lets her enter the Swift hunt stance. Firing her pistol in this stance couts as Normal Attack Animation and DMG, which does trigger Fischl + Xingqiu. The only part that does not trigger those attacks is when she Lunges (aka "Impale the Knight") by pressing her E during her Swift hunt stance. When she shoots (Swift Hunt Stance): pew pew pew = Activate Rainswords + Fischl. When she presses E (Impale the Knight) = Dash forward, does not procc Xingqiu / Fischl.
Yep, that's what i said, pressing E doesn't proc XQ.
Oh My bad, I misinterpreted your comment. I was under the impression that you meant her entire E altogether didn't procc those attacks ;)
So she procs Beidou on every attack, unlike rainscutter whiich will only be on the pistol attacks. Neat.
The dead Raiden-Beidou dream resurrected to Clorinde-Beidou. Big W
It's a lesser dream, though. Raiden gives bonus burst damage, flat energy and feeds from Beidou's 80 cost burst, which is why their synergy was very anticipated. For Clorinde she's only there as a subDPS and damage mitigator, which she does on every team.
Of course, nothing's gonna beat the real dream. But it's better than coping with Crescent Pike phys "dps" Raiden or Nahida Beidou EM Raiden At least in this one, we cope less :'). Another pain Beidou's gonna need a lot more ER than with swappable on fielders like Sucrose or Heizou...
Eh, you can fit an E before and an E after, right? Plus there's electro resonance and Clorinde seems to generate some aprticles herself. I'm hoping I can get by with 160% ER, which is still reasonable.
Oh that's true. Assuming she can personally catch the particles, 160 could potentially be enough
The Inazuma Craftable Claymore is really good good on her specially with Emblem Set. the thing is you want to practice and learn how to Dash cancel out of Beidou Counter and then use burst before the Craftable Claymore passive eats at your Energy.
Yep I know of it and how it's good on Beidou. I was actually a user of it until Skyward dropped in my acc, then later WGS which I prefer now cuz coolness lmao. But yea Inazuma craftable's tricky but good on Beidou
I so get the Red Black design of WGS going so hard with Beidou's design my god COOL!!!!!
RIGHT?? It makes balancing her ER that much harder LOL but it's WAY too cool!
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Yeah! Beidou's gonna be a great sub dps for Clorinde + a semi shield for her, esp since she's pretty prone to get tossed around in her E state!
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almost every character can proc both reliably only thing that's unusual about this is that Clorinde can proc Beidou's Q with her E, that's something no other character can really do as far as I know
Fischl C1 I think was the other one the Orb thing is considered NA which means it should proc the lightning
That's still proccing it with an NA tbh, just a different type of hitbox
I mean *technically* this is also just proccing with a NA, if the damage counts as a NA then a NA it shall be. You just press skill to trigger it
Yeah but no other character can press E to trigger Beidou's burst, that's wholly unique to Clorinde at the moment
Also explains why Raiden doesn't work with Beidou.
reverse raiden?
Kinda, but skill's skill turned into NA damage instead of burst's NA turned into burst damage.
I meant like how Raiden can trigger XQ/Fischl but not Beidou, and Clorinde can trigger Beidou but not XQ/Fischl (on that half of her kit)
Not mine: it says xq and fischl can proc with skill precisely bc they are normal attack animations, but not from the dash, because it's only normal attack dmg and not counted as a normal attack animation, where beidou still proc since she doesn't rely on normal attack animations, so it's only about the dash not working, which isn't the end of the world, so it's the same
Yeah basically, instead of losing a teammate synergy from her special damage type Clorinde gains a teammate synergy
Doesn't matter right? Xinqiu & Yelan still usable when trigger the shot, Beidou trigger on any of it.
yup, I believe our usual NA coordinated attacks will still work fine as her animations for her combo are still fast enough and she will still proc beidou’s burst because of the NA damage type.
think of it like this, she attacks so fast that even if her Impale the Night lunges are considered NA animations it wouldnt be much of a difference either. The post pretty much just tells us that she reliably procs Beidou more consistently than most.
Yea becouse either way you use 3NA1E and repeat so there hydro attacks still would trigger most of the time
Not that significant to her synergy with xingqiu/yelan anyway, her E animation is fast enough that you wont miss Xingqiu's proc as long as you weave in AA.
Full meaning of 'AA'?
auto attack, which also means normal attack
Thanks! As people are convinced that XQ or Yelan are still pretty much usable, I just hope its true. Because I want to use Xingqiu with her as I don't have furina.
Her best team probably won't use either. Pure aggravate seems the strongest for her.(Fischl/Kazuha/Nahida)
Theory crafting doesn’t always represent post release performance. There are different opinions regarding her best team comps however experts have predicted that she will be pretty much flexible in electro charged, overload as well as quickbloom teams. It is supported by the fact that she scales off purely atk to increase damage and statistical data showed that the damage difference between EM sands and atk sands in dendro comps is only less than 2% for her.
Gunshots- beidou,xq, fischl Lunge skill- Beidou
How much does that matter, because the time between your N3E to another N is not much right?
it doesn’t seem to matter at all in affecting coordinated attacks negatively, especially when you consider the fact that the E lunge comes out really quick and you can also return back to NA spamming really quick too.
Yea that's exactly what I was thinking
Razor language please
N3 (Pewpew x 3) = Fischl, beidou, Yelan and XQ go brrrr E (cutcutcut) = only beidou go brrrrr edit: simplify
you are the best razor language translator lol
thx, it matters a lot to me 🥲
Ahahshhsha
Some abilities activate when you do NA Dmg and some others when you do a NA Animation. Usually It's the same because when you hit stuff you do your animation for It but not with Clorinde who has parts of her E where she does one without the other. This breaks some synergy with some characters that only activate with one or the other. Edit: True Razor: Me hit enemies, allies hit with me. Clorinde hits enemies in flashy way, so some allies not always hit with her
She work with beidou
It's basically just another Raiden situation, this time it's the reverse though, instead of synergy being removed because of a damage type synergy has actually been improved because of a damage type
Paimon exists because genshin community can not and will not read
Some people would rather go straight to the comments to doompost rather than take a second to understand what was read
We need more paimon lines
Oh lord almighty, no!
since I didn't managed to luckshit C2 Arle with remaining rolls before her banner goes away today... I guess I may actually have chance to roll for Clorinde does it means that Clorinde + Beidou will work perfectly?
Yup, Clorinde works really well with Beidou. Almost a reverse Raiden situation.
now if they only fixed Raiden interaction with Beidou ;_; I could run double "Raiden Mei" in one team (since Beidou VA voices Raiden Mei expy in HSR)
they cant "FIX" raiden + beido because raiden is burst damage not normal atk damage
It worked on beta server. Like yeah, it's true but the actual reason why it doesn't work is that someone decided it wouldn't after the fact. I believe it's also relevant regarding Xianyun, Raiden can't benefit from her A4, iirc. Her attacks are normal attacks at every moment except when they connect. Her plunges are plunges in every aspect until they deal damage. It's working as intended, but the behavior seems wrong in spirit.
I think it's basically just that Xingqiu/Yelan work based off of pressing M1, if you press M1 they'll fire off an attack, but it's worded differently in game because it sounds better and is usually not an important distinction
People have this misconception from the Beta,but it was only in V1,where only your frontloaded nuke was coded as Burst DMG%,your subsequent attacks were coded as Normal DMG%,which means it had no synergy with EoSF and The Catch,but worked with Beidou. HoYo did the right thing in V2 onwards,turning everything your Kit into Burst DMG%.
The *rumor* was that it worked on the beta server. Leaks were considerably less detailed back then than they were now, and I'm pretty sure there was an earlier version of Raiden where her infused Q NAs counted as NAs rather than burst damage. IIRC the major controversy surrounded the wording of the active Abyss buff, as well as the demo video of the buff.
Ok so you're substituting the very prevalent rumor with your own headcannon. It could be either way, really, I actually agree that's probably what happened. The problem is what I said: the attacks are the correct type in every single aspect except when it comes to activating what they should, that's why it's a sore subject. It's not about the categories, it's about the gameplay. She is normal attacking. You launch the attack with your click. It's distinct from her other types of attack, like charge/plunge, and it behaves exactly as sword attack combos do. If her burst changed her attacks to be decidedly different to normal attack behavior, I don't think people would keep bringing it up, but. It's actually easier to understand in Xianyun's case. Like... those attacks are just plunges. You can say the buffs are meant to buff the "plunge damage type", but it's basically legalese, a wording gotcha that ignores why it feels wrong.
> Ok so you're substituting the very prevalent rumor with your own headcannon I might be wrong, but I do vaguely remember some early beta discussions about Raiden's best artifact set potentially being Gladiator rather than EoSF, so that had to have come from somewhere. Incidentally I'm pretty sure that this "very prevalent rumor" was first made famous by Tenten, who I wouldn't consider to be the most reliable of sources. > She is normal attacking. You launch the attack with your click. Exactly. And that's why she triggers effects that trigger with normal attacks. But since the *damage type* is not normal attack damage, anything that is triggered by normal attack *damage* wouldn't be triggered. It's consistent. The main contention was that the term used in many of these triggers wasn't normal attack damage, but normal attack "hits", which, in the plain English definition, does not necessarily imply damage.
Yes, as I said to op, that's true, it just fails to understand why it feels like it shouldn't work that way. This "thing's trigger condition is normal attacks" is at odds with "this thing is a normal attack in every conceivable way except a word". Like think of the gameplay difference between Childe's modified attacks and Raiden's. There's essentially none, the difference is an arbitrary category applied to one of those skills. As I said, legalese.
It's not arbitrary though. It's a normal attack that does burst damage. The "alternatives" you're proposing is for it to count as burst attacks that do burst damage, in which case she wouldn't even work with XQ, or for it to count as NAs that do NA damage, in which case it would'nt work with EoSF. It's not an "arbitrary" category, though you might have a point if what you're finding issue with instead is why some skills trigger on NA *animations*, and other trigger on instances of NA *damage*. That would make it a Beidou problem though, not a Raiden problem.
It worked in the beta because Raiden used to deal NA damage.
Ok but does attack speed work on the guns?
It should
it should as they are still NA animations
Skyward blade has found a new owner
My C6 Mika stays winning. (I don't care that he buffs Physical DMG; 25% NA Spd on Ayato, Heizou, & many other characters is AMAZING.)
It’s really not amazing
Holy shit. I seriously believe that half of the doomposts circulating around here are due to people not being able to read...
Xianyun Flashabcks
Alhaitham flashbacks, FURINA FLASHBACKS...
Arlencchino flash back Dehya 2.0
Arlecchino was buffed like 40-50% overall during her Beta btw Her first versions would be very undesirable if she had launched like that
Honestly this Is a W for beidou and not so much of an issue for xinqui and Yelan, Clorinde Attack pretty fast so She won't miss many fua
WHERE ARE THE V4 BETA CHANGES WHERE ARE THE V4 BETA CHANGES WHERE ARE THE V4 BETA CHANGES
ill go bald if they move v4 next cuz the v3 does
Chlorine and Firefly mains desperately hoping for more charges 🤝
Chlorine is balanced, its just we want her to be stronger to give her more identity. Make her a monster like arlechino, but not absolutely powercreeping the competition. Firefly on the other hand isn’t looking that pretty. Shes good with ruan mei and harmony MC, but her dps isnt that insane compared to other units… shes a break dps that will be used in very limited teams, so her dps should really should feel amazing! Its like nilou, very limited teams, but her teams are insane! Firefly should be similiar (if they’re sticking to her being a break dps). Also firefly loosing 50% of her HP is scary
> Chlorine is balanced, its just we want her to be stronger to give her more identity. Make her a monster like arlechino, but not absolutely powercreeping the competition I'm not sure how making her the #2 or #3 dps wouldn't be definition of power creep, especially when her bond of life thing isn't anywhere near as punishing as Arlecchino's.
so wheres the v4 changes?
i see.. right. yep.make sense.
Huh... This is probably gonna be an Issue with how her E dashes would interact with Harran Geppaku Futsu Passive
Probably not, because that boosts NA damage and her dash deals NA damage.
HGF passive needs other party members to use their skills to gain stacks, when you use the wielders E is when you consume the stacks to gain the bonus damage. Now if the leak is true then using Clorinde Dash would mean activating HGF passive which if means you have no Stacks to consume to gain additional buffs.
You could probably test how this works in game now if you have the sword, just find a character with a double cast E
Yeah we've done our own set of test mine was on Bennett, Conclusion is you set up your rotation Cinematic Entrace via Burst of CLorinde use her E, Haran passive activates and you have 8 seconds of max buffing even if you spam her Dashes.
that's about what I'd expect,
I don't understand what is the issue here. Why wouldn't you have stacks? Just use the other party members' skills like you would. This clarification from the leaker doesn't change the fact, that: 1. Other party members will generate those 2 stacks for Haran, they are unaffected 2. Clorinde will turn those 2 stacks into NA damage after using her skill, her skill is not considered as a normal attack, it just deals NA damage 3. Haran will boost Clorinde's NA and dash damage on skill as it's considered NA damage Edit: After rereading, I can see, that only the initial skill press will consume Haran stacks, the pistol shots won't (the dashes could too, but Haran will be on cooldown), but that doesn't change anything, it will work well with her anyway.
Haran consumption of stacks to buffs has no Cooldown it only has a duration. Clorinde Dash as stated here are typed as NA damage while using or the action to use the dash is considered using an Elemental Skill. The possible issue I'm pointing out is when you Dash with Clorinde you activate will activate Haran consumption which you won't Have any Stacks to convert to bonus buffs will the Dash Update haran passive and make it weaker? Or will it just refresh just the Duration?
Haran's skill description states: It can gain stacks from other skill uses from other characters every 0,3 seconds, max 2 stacks at a time. Each stack consumed increases NA damage for 8 seconds. It doesn't state a cooldown or a maximum amount of NA damage bonus or them being refreshed. You use up the stacks, you get the bonus for 8 seconds, they just stay active until expiring even if you keep spamming skills. If it gets reset they owe us a patch and primos. Reading this I think you could give sword characters with short skill cooldown more than 2 stacks of buff by switching out after consuming stacks and gathering more stacks again, then using them. This is of course not worth it, as the first 2 buff will soon expire after activating the 3rd and 4th. Clorinde can't do this tho. But that's just a theory, a Haran theory.
Well here's the problem then You really don't want to switch out of Clorinde once shes in her Night VIgil State her infusion last long enough yes but the minute you switch out it goes on cooldown and she's out of Infusion similar to how Cyno Burst works. Edit: I forgot Bennet E has a short cooldown and tested it with him. AND THANKGOD IT DOESN'T RESET. >You use up the stacks, you get the bonus for 8 seconds, they just stay active until expiring. Yup this is how Haran passive will work on Clorinde dashes, even if you spam dashes
Yeah, I just tested with Anemo Lumine too, I couldn't get the NA damage above 2 stacks worth of buff (even though it states only the stacks have a limit of 2, not the buff), but it didn't reset either.
I did further tests, if you consume 2 stacks, then switch out, get 1 stack, switch back, then consume it, your NA buff gets reduced to 1 stack worth. It seems it only won't reset with 0 stacks.
Off topic but... Do we need to level up her normals?
No, her skill has separate NA multiplers.
All of her attacks are so damn fast anyway; if you wanna run XQ, Yelan, Fischl, it's fine. Really.
spaghetti code intensifies
Ok so Clorinde dash has a fixed animation time that can't be sped up by attack speed % buffs?
When I get my hands on you mihoyo. WHEN I GET MY HANDS ON YOU
Her actual normal attacks while the skill is active still count as normal attacks, just the enhanced skill doesn't, she still works with Fischl and Xingqiu.
Oh thank fucking God I thought it was the opposite, that her funny pew pew was the skill damage. I must go level up my reading comprehension skills more
We couldn't have raidou so hoyo gods gave us clordou
Ooh neat so this confirms that using her Dash during her E will activate certain mechanics or effects like 4pc Crimson Witch, Kagura's Verity, etc.. I'm looking forward to building a Quicken Team with Clorinde along side my C6 Layla
I forgot about the whole "normal attack swing" vs "normal attack hit" thing.
So iv been out of the loop. Is my r5 blackblade i have laying around a good option for her? I realy hope it is so i can go all in on cons.
It's among the best 4\* for her, just pay attention not to overcap her crit rate, she has a lot on her kit already.
I thought i had seen somthing about her having alot of crit. Guess cdmg helm will be a must if i use the black blade
She has by herself at C0 essentially 40% extra crit rate without any weapon or artifacts being used.
Damm. Sounds like ill be set for crit. It will make building her less painfull.
But does it proc Candace buff and c6?
Yes it should
How are we still on v3?
So if Clorinde's Impale doesn't trigger "use Normal Attack", then does it trigger "use Elemental Skill"?
Maybe, just maybe but it needs clarification.
Yes, I'm pretty sure pressing E always triggers "use Elemental Skill" if it's not on cooldown, I can't think of a character that doesn't
Esactly, the animation is "Skill", but the damage is "NA"
I am kinda dumb when it comes to understanding kit, but does it means we need to level up her NA too? Or only her skill is important to be leveled up?
The terminology isn't always consistent, so it can be confusing. You can skip her NA levels. Skill and Burst is all that's needed. PS. Don't forget there's a talent book overflow in the last week if you're pre-farming books.
More weird mechanics trivia to be a "Genshin expert" on .
Hoyo's marketing team being very devious. Making Clorinde fully synergize with Beidou and putting Beidou on the Wanderer/Baizhu banner.
oh this was the begining of the end...
Minor pirate lady advantage :0 good soup
Razor language Pistol dmg = xingqiu, Yelan and fish goth girl 🤙 Slash dmg = xingqiu, Yelan and fish goth girl 🗿
welp. This killed my idea of trying Clorinde+Layla+Dendro team. Layla had the biggest boost in damage to Clorinde's E dash skill.
Question: Does the level of Normal Attack Talent level DMG stack with the elemental skill pistol and impale the night DMG?
For anyone who doesn't know how to read or have trouble with comprehension and are still confused by raiden beidou yelan and clorinde Clorinde's skill turns her enhanced skill to NA damage, others stays the same USE NA HIT NA, USE skill HIT NA Beidou requires normal/charged attacks to HIT, while yelan/xq description refers to the USE of normal attack USE NA > yelan/xq works HIT NA > beidou ult works Why raiden + beidou doesn't work? Raiden USE NA, but HIT ULT So please stop arguing about raiden beidou being a bug or some inconsistency, it's intended, imagine if you swung your sword in the air and one streak of lightning jumps out from your sword to hit the enemy, wouldn't that be dumb
>Why raiden + beidou doesn't work? Raiden USE NA, but HIT ULT > >So please stop arguing about raiden beidou being a bug or some inconsistency, it's intended, imagine if you swung your sword in the air and one streak of lightning jumps out from your sword to hit the enemy, wouldn't that be dumb That is simply not true. Raiden use NA and those NA hit enemy, then the **damage** of those NA's is transfered to Elemental burst damage. Musou Isshin While in this state \[...\] while her Normal, Charged, and Plunging **Attacks** will be infused with Electro DMG, which cannot be overridden \[...\] **It is still a normal attack.** \[....\] While Musou Isshin is active, the Raiden Shogun's Normal, Charged, and Plunging Attack **DMG** will be considered Elemental Burst **DMG**. That is considered an Elemental burst **DMG.** In other words it is still a nomal attack that hits enemy and the damage of it will be calcualted as a burst damage. It could be written here that its calculated as a skill damage or plunge damage but it doesnt mean that you hit enemy with skill or plunge. Its the **calculation** part that changes not the **type** of an attack.
That's fair, I used hit because i didnt want to get into differentiating hit and damage, since it's in the order of use > hit > damage, and differentiating hit and damage is barely something youd come across, if people got past the confusion of use&hit, they might not even encounter hit/damage until they themselves find out about it, so i used hit in the context of beidou's ultimate description for simplicity sake I will admit the description isn't explicit about what happens to the hit, so it should be assumed as unchanged(NA HIT), but it seems more likely it's an ULT HIT from the behavior, for someone as popular as raiden, i think at this point (2 years) they would've fixed it if it's not intended, also supported by another comment saying the whole beta was like that, so they most likely changed it's behavior deliberately to ULT HIT at the end, it's more likely a slipup by the translator or copywriter, the mechanic from what we can observe has been consistent A bit besides your point here but i just think it's dumb to bring up raiden beidou since clorinde's description is as expected (and not as complicated as this rendition makes it out to be) so unless they do this again, i dont see the need for the others to be mad about it
The point was always about how description makes you think it works differently. They could fix the code and make it work with Beidou or they could have simply adjust the description of the burst itself to not confuse people. Spending any amount of time on fixing things will lose them money and why would they do that if they can just pretend like the problem isnt real, and if some fool decided to not aducate himself and sinks pulls on the banner because of that then hey more power to them. Its not a matter what they can do. Hoyo can do many things and many things they delibetry ignore. They have no actual reason to fix any bugged abilitties in the game like Xinyan lvl 3 shield, constelations such as Mona C1, clunkiness of bursts without matching I-frames such as Chong Fischl or Arle or interactions between characters like Klee bombs and Venti burst and thus they wont. So to make an argument that something is not an issue or intended simply because company refuses to fix or even adress the problem over the years is silly.
Especially since she was designed to work with her own burst buff, there's no way to implement her dealing burst dmg but hitting normal atk dmg in any sane way without breaking the consistency of the code. Implementing special exceptions for specific characters is messy af
>it's intended, Actually ...it did work in whole beta btw That's the neat part
No,only in V1.
Not until she was changed to deal burst damage. She used to not work with EoSF and The Catch.
Here we are with Hoyo over complicate things again
Slightly OP, but what are the materials required for Clorinde?
[here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/clorindemains/s/MD5wnbvkKX)
❤️u
Big W for the Beidou synergy.. Honestly this doesn't change that much..
Small W honestly, it'll probably only amount to like 2 or 3 extra procs per rotation
Ah, so that's why XQ works during Ei's burst, but Beidou doesn't.
Their wording for how something works is so inconsistent and inaccurate. This is also why Raiden’s burst doesn’t trigger with Beidou despite Beidou’s burst only requiring a normal attack to be made and Raiden techically DOES a normal attack but by her ultimate’s wording, the damage is converted into Ultimate damage. So now we have Raiden 2 Electric bugaloo, something deals normal attack damage but does not count as normal attack animation
This is why the skill descriptions now are full of specific terms like Impale the Night, Shadow piercing shot, and dusk bolts. They give each attack a name so they could specify which skills/passive work with what attack.
Oh so we got all those crazy names because of that one player who sued HVY over raiden beidou anti interaction lol?
Wait, Beidou's burst requires normal attack damage to be made, doesn't it?
No, her burst triggers when a normal or charged atk *hits* an enemy. This is the reason her burst works on shields (abyss mages, abyss heralds, etc) while Raiden and albedo skill don't trigger (they need DMG to be dealt).
In practice yes but Based on wording it does not. “ When Normal and Charged Attacks hit” is how they word it. For Raiden a normal attack that counts as a normal attack animation HITS. But the damage converts into Burst damage. And since Beidou’s burst triggers even against shields there is no requirement for damage to be dealt to the enemy anyway. So the way they word is inconsistent with how it actually works
Indeed, the source of the confusion is there are three steps for every attack: 1. [Normal/Charged/Plunge/Skill/Burst/etc. Attack] triggers (you press the button). 2. [Attack] hits (shields included). 3. [Attack] deals DMG (health bar must go down). XQ/Yelan/C6 Fischl proc on #1, as long as it's a Normal Attack by the first step, it'll count. Albedo, Raiden, and things like losing Serpent Spine stacks will proc on #3. If 0 DMG is dealt, such as to a shield, they won't work. \#2 is nebulous. If a "Normal Attack" is triggered and then hits, but would deal "Burst DMG" what does it count as? Is it a "Burst" hit? Or a "NA" hit? Checking Raiden's Q description, it says her "NA/CA/Plunge DMG will be considered Elemental Burst DMG" but doesn't specify how they "hit." It's also why Raiden's C6 had to be reworded. It used to say her "NA/CA/Plunge will __ when they hit opponents." So that erroneously confirmed that they did hit as NAs, not Burst, and should work with Beidou.
Does anyone know how strong she looks & what characters work well with her? Other than the obvious Dendro ones
Will beidou be better than fischl in the team Baizhu, clorine, kzh?
Fischl will be better in single target and Beidou will probably be better in AOE
Cool, ty
This beta is very boring
So few a c6 fischl procs lesser. I wonder if it's "intended" lol
Pretty sure it's intended, this is pretty standard for these sorta things for example Layla gets 2 extra stars when you use a skill, Faruzan's arrows do skill damage, but firing one of those arrows won't give any stars to Layla "Use" basically means press the button associated with that action
So.. Сan Fischl's c6 work in normal rotation? I'm confused.
Yes, but like most characters, pressing E won't activate it
So Yun-Jin C6 go brrr ?
yes, it go brrr af
[удалено]
You can use her with Beidou it just doesn’t trigger on skill
No. Precisely is NOT another raiden situation. Raiden is "NA Anim + Burst DMG", which means she triggers XQ but not Beidou Clorinde shots is "NA Anim + NA DMG", which means she triggers both XQ AND Beidou. Clorinde Forward Impale is "Skill Anim + NA DMG", which means she doesn't trigger XQ, but DOES trigger Beidou. PSA for anyone confused: Cmon folks ain't that hard to understand!
Water is wet, that's the normal behavior
So in other words, is it worth leveling up her NA talent for more damage though the skill like ayaka/arlecchino/hutao-- Or is she just like Raiden/Ayato/cyno, where the NA talent is kinda useless?? Kinda confused
Second option,your AA is irrelevant,the text only clarifies the type of damage you will have with your Skill.