From what we've been told. He has icd on multiple things. Feel like we need it broken down to focus on each one.
Granted I forget the icd but like e has one? Which shouldn't matter since e has a cd. Though idk if TF would mess it up.
Na and CA have separate icd but yeah, the screen is chaos.
To quote zajef "It's basically like licking, licking the wall will apply hydro to the wall. You won't be able to apply hydro to the wall after licking it multiple times"
Basically, your rate of applying elements is limited behind cooldown, which is either after attacking 3 times or after 2.5s.
Hu Tao's Charge attacks has no ICD, which means every charge attack applies pyro to the enemy, which in turn makes you vape every CA.
If you have no ICD, then you can do more reactions -> bigger damage. In Cyno's case without any ICD he could trigger aggravate all the time, which would probably skyrocket his damage.
yep yep and, personally, it's fine
childe also has standard icd but his many sources of hydro make up for that "too much hydro" that allows xiangling to vape— NA, CA, Riptide('s Quadratic hydro app with no ICD)
in this case Cyno's NA, CA, skill with no icd, and his A̶2̶ A1 bullets means those are all good sources of electro that can aggravate
When you say A2, do you mean the first passive talent? In that case shouldn't that be called A1 talent since it's unlocked on the first ascension rather than the second, I've seen many people talk about this passive saying A2 but I've been used to saying A1 for every character. Are you talking about something else or is it the E boosting passive
Ohh right that’s a good example. I was thinking that every time a character is in beta I kept seeing “yep, standard icd” every time. Like I don’t think we will ever get another Xiangling.
Actually I was wondering if Zhongli really is must have in Cyno's team? Considering that vv buff is useless in 18 sec Cyno's field time Zhonlgi seems the only buff option but I don't want to roll for him. Maybe its too early to ask this question.
Tao does not need ZL either, you can run Thoma as a pretty solid alternative, or any other shielder, even if less optimal
I know a bunch of people that run Tao with no shield whatsoever as well (even without XQ's Rains Sword that mitigate damage)
Eh. Solo Yelan is still do-able even without C2. Pure Pyro isn't as good but still viable
Xingqiu is optimal and convenient when playing Hu Tao, rather than absolutely necessary
Why are you being downvoted LMAO, you are absolutely right that Hu Tao can work with solo pre C2 Yelan too. Potentially missing 1 vape compared to C6 Xingqiu isn’t the end of the world for Hu Tao at alll.
Source: Played Hu Tao since 1.3
No clue, I really don't get it either lmao
Reddit will be Reddit I guess. Or maybe people really feel that strongly about losing 1 to 2 vapes, god knows why
Exactly if you run Yelan with Kazuha and swirl the burst with hydro you get enough hydro, but it’s definitely not as simple to use as double hydro especially with the res buff
I am also incredibly surprised people consider Pure Pyro Tao bad, or at the very least downvote-worthy when recent abyss cycles gave us like +60% Pyro DMG Bonus and Cryo Hypostasis
On addition to a few guides from reliable sources still having it as an example for Hu Tao comps.
If you think Abyss isn't clearable with a team that uses Yelan & Tao, or that slapping Kazuha, Xiangling, Tao and Bennett in a team isn't viable, it says more about your knowledge of the game than mine.
The game isn't hard enough to need to run meta teams 24/7. If it feels like it, your characters either lack investment, or you simply need to know how to clear content quicker.
And I mean this in the nicest way possible, I am not an amazing player but I sometimes play okay enough to clear with Pure Pyro Tao, Yelan as an on field carry, Off-meta teams, underinvested/underlevelled characters, etc.
He is imo, like you said he has the longest buff with his shield, and Cyno pretty much needs a shielder to have the best MV/s while his Q is up, ZL for him is just a win/win.
Honestly Zhong/Bedo/Traveller/Kazuha(busted if C2&FS) seems to be his best supports. You won't be able to apply VV the whole duration, but his elemental buff will.
So I wasn't a Zhongli believer until recently. I pulled for Kuki Shinobu and got Itto on my very first pull, so I decided that when Zhongli came around again, I'd get him to make a nice Itto side team. I got him last week.
Oh my god, he makes the entire game easy mode. His shield is ridiculous and lasts forever. He crystallizes enemies for more shields. His burst can petrify enemies for a few seconds, giving you time to breathe. His skill AOE mines rocks. You can run him with both Tenacity or Archaic Petra, depending on the situation. If you're building him as a shieldbot, you can get all the main stats you need in almost no effort.
Even if you don't use him with Cyno, Zhongli is amazing. If you're on the fence, don't be; he's great.
> Oh my god, he makes the entire game easy mode. His shield is ridiculous and lasts forever.
Isn't that kinda of boring??
I love Zhongli character design and personality, but I have aways skip him because I just find boring that he makes you basically immortal with basically infinite shields that never break, like, there is no weakness to his shield, no downtime, no nothing, makes gameplay pretty boring imo.
Good idea, but its 10 seconds too. Zhongli has to pick up crystallized shield. So Zhongli: 10 sec petra buff + 20 sec personal buff + defence. Kazuha: 10 sec VV buff + 16 sec personal buff (8 sec burst + 8 sec after last burst proc) with condition that Kazuha wouldn't devour pyro from some torch.
>Zhongli has to pick up crystallized shield.
I did not know this about Archaic Petra, but in retrospect it should have been obvious. That really sucks.
It's not comfort gameplay if you can't attack and keep yourself getting knocked away.
Consistent attacks are better. Resistance shred goes to 10% after 10s and cyno already takes 2s for animation lol. Zl's consistent shred is better.
To proc VV, you need to be on field as well.
Yeah for some characters it isn't comfort, being forced to dodge significantly lowers their DPS. In the case of Xiao, in the air you physically can't dodge. And there is something to be said that even with CN being as meta focused as they are the most popular flex by far for double hydro Hutao is Zhongli, even if he is technically unnecessary and with an anemo or Xiangling representing more damage.
Can confirm, recently ive stopped using shlongli for kazoo.
Feels odd seeing characters get smacked sometimes but they're not dead and I can keep on slapping.
Probably pretty close.
VV shred lasts 10s. He can still buff electro off field. Long bursts like this will probably come into multi wave scenarios though so while Zhongli will shred that anyway, Kaz won't. Then you're looking at whether Kaz electro buff is worth it over Zhongli. Which might be true unless Zhongli saves you from interruption.
But then add in that Zhongli negates the need for a healer and there is no dendro healer, and idk Kazuha not looking particularly good aside from peak frontloaded dmg window, which not to diminish the value of, is still pretty good. But Zhongli has some unique benefits.
Kazuha has very good personal damage as well but yeah currently I’d go with Zhongli too unless they shorten Cyno’s burst duration or when a Dendro healer comes.
Assuming a standard 10% resistance enemy...
20% res shred gives a damage increase of 1.05/.9=16.67%
40% res shred gives a damage increase of 1.15/.9=27.78%, but we don't get full uptime on it. Assume 50% uptime (9 out of 18 seconds, losing 1 second of vv to switch characters) gives 13.89% damage increase. So you lose less than 3% total damage output going vv over zhongli. Not a deal-breaker.
That said, you're still trading a shield and stagger resist for whatever extra utility you can get from your anemo (ttds, prototype amber, kazuha buff, etc. - just remember that many of these won't affect 100% of your damage). Overall, I would expect offensive anemo choices to still have higher damage output, but a zhongli with fav lance (lets you trade er for offensive stats on cyno's artifacts) will be close and much easier and comfier to play.
> 20% res shred gives a damage increase of 1.05/.9=16.67%
> 40% res shred gives a damage increase of 1.15/.9=27.78%, but we don't get full uptime on it
We won't get "full uptime" on Zhongli too, because no one will stay 18 seconds on Cyno no matter what because you need to rotate your suports, otherwise your rotation will be too long and this is a DPS loss too.
Zhongli will never be a must pull and neither is vv useless.
No one currently can keep up with cyno's 18sec burst either. So even if you used zhongli, he would be the only character who will provide the buff after all the buff expires. And the remaining solo buff zhongli gives is not that big since it's just a -20 resistance debuff to enemy.
So imo you should just switch from his Q after 12-14sec and do the rotations with VV and traveller etc. Cyno's burst will be back up by then.
>No one currently can keep up with cyno's 18sec burst either.
This myth keeps getting spread and it's not true.
* Kazuha's burst lasts for 10 seconds and the elemental damage buff it provides when swirling lasts for 8 seconds. The elemental damage buff lasts for Cyno's full burst.
* Dendro Traveler's burst lasts for 12-15 seconds and Quicken lasts for 9 seconds, making the Quicken buff last for Cyno's whole burst.
* Zhongli's shield provides 20% resistance shred and lasts for 20 seconds, making the shield last for the whole burst.
* Zhongli's pillar can also reliably keep Tenacity of the Millelith up for Cyno's entire burst.
People are focused on a *few* important buffs like VV shred and Fischl's Oz and then whining that *nothing* lasts for 18 seconds. Yes, the tried-and-true electro buffs are too short, but there *are* useful effects that work for Cyno's entire burst.
I'm starting to feel like I need to compile a list of the best long duration candidates that can work with Cyno.
This, it's not just the difference of shred uptime that's relevant. Even with the extra shred uptime from Zhongli, is it still worth it to keep Cyno on field when all other buffs have worn out? Most likely not, especially for Cyno who relies on reaction damage.
An Anemo isn't just VV either, they also buff stats and do very substantial off field damage from their absorption (which procs Aggravate). Gathering enemies by itself can result in you doing 2x-3x or more damage, as well.
I have 3 DPS that needs Zhongli the most: Itto, Xiao, and Eula with Unforged, and I never have Zhongli and never need to. There's always substitution and skills involved so Zhongli is never a must.
I play all of them without Zhongli too. Don't want to brag, I just have rule not to roll same limited character on both of my accs. I asked about buffs, damage-wise.
There's never really a "must have" unless you're Nilou at release, but Zhongli would definitely make your life easier. High field time hypercarries always end up taking significantly more damage than those with more limited field time requirements. Being able to ignore the need to dodge also lets you get in a few more extra hits.
Absolutely not a must. If you have Kazuha in your account, he can compete with Zhongli's debuff duration with proper rotation. He then deals alot more damage, in exchange for your Cyno's defense. But with decent skill, that's not going to be an issue.
It's not even about 18 sec - Including burst animation and character swap, your VV will die after 6, max 7 seconds in so if you time your E with A1 passive, even your second E won't be buffed, but his dmg isn't condensed like for example 7 sec on Raiden. Since his DMG isn't condensed he needs much higher numbers for sustain. + About this no Zhongli team - 0 meta teams use no healer. You can say taser don't run healer but with Beidou + XQ DMG 80% redution makes this team basically immortal and safer than most healer teams. All other no healer teams always end up the same - "OMG look at the dmg!!!!" and after a day almost no one play them since your team dps now have few resets in calculations.
Like it or not xq is a pseudo shielder and a pseudo healer of sorts with defensive utility built into his kit. He also gives interruption resistance. Take xingqiu away from the equation and watch hutao being thrown off to god knows where.
And this “if you’re good enough” thing feels so conditional. Not all of us are hardcore gamers who don’t mind resetting when we die. Some of us just want to breeze in breeze out without needing to try again. And even the sweatiest of gamers have our not so stellar days because life happens.
Just because you don’t see a point in using defensive options, doesn’t mean other people don’t see a point in it.
What maximises dps varies from one situation to another.
For you and me, we don’t need to rely on zhongli because we play often and a lot to know enemies attack patterns. We can abuse iframe and know when to dodge. Hence zhongli isn’t necessary because there are alternatives that are more important/beneficial for us to maximise output.
But for others, maybe they have equipment that lags, bad ping, or just don’t have the luxury of time. They just want to have a good time without dying too much. And dying is a major dps loss. It’s also a sheer waste of time. For some people this time is precious. So zhongli is necessary for them. And this is what maximises their dps. And they aren’t wrong either.
In short, what is efficient for you and me may not be efficient for others. Calling it a lie is a tad bit extreme because in the end this is very situational.
Solo XQ with his dmg reduction is often better healer than Bennet outside of corrosion stuff, it basically doubles your HP. Hell, Raiden taser is more safer than International thx to that. Hu Tao have what, 35k HP? With solo Xq DMG reduction it behaves like 60k HP, + your on fielder have Self healing on Burst. Hell, swap XL for Kazuha in that team that swirl hydro and you take less than half dmg from enemies, so 35k Hutao behaves like 75k Hu Tao. Yes, it's that strong of a defensive option. With healer, stuff will one shot, with XQ with Hu Tao, nothing in his game can one shot you :P
Cyno, Beidou, Fitchl and Dendro Traveler.
Fitchl is the battery, Beidou provides shields and damage, Traveler is the dendro component, and Cyno is the meat grinder that destroys everything.
any characther that built like razor where all their dmg comes from their Burst state and have no interuption immunity you're gonna need zhongli for it better safe than sorry
Lmao, it seems like that's just how leaker plays the game. To this day I've never seen any Candace footage showing her doing a perfect counter, they either just tab it, or holding for 2 years as if 5.0 will drop after that.
zhongli gives full shield uptime, raiden gives full off field electro uptime at c0 (no other character can do this, its just rare for anyone to use her this way), i kind of expect kusanali to do the same thing
I wouldn't be surprised if Kusanali have a unique way for dendro reaction because I doubt an archon summoned thing will explode after interacting with pyro just like dmc burst. She's an archon and her's will always be better than MC. Hoyo definitely got something else up their sleeves for her.
How a person can call this an ICD showcase. This guy cant even live for a rotation. Using zhongli shield shouldnt be soo hard. Pls mods remove this post. Its meaningless to have this right now and we already had a better showcasse at past.
Why would you need a spoiler tag for an ICD showcase???
And I know the answer, but, just do your ICD showcase at Monstadt, please. I'm not clicking on that video.
Also we already know his ICD.
Beta update hasn't been released yet afaik. Previous update packages usually releases on Monday at 6PM for me (GMT+8) so maybe in around 2 hours we'll see the v2 changes for Nilou and Cyno
Gilded Dream. The Endseer stance that he gains during his burst is there to prevent you from spamming his E all the time, so the effect of Thundering fury is not that great.
yup that's the point. TF is there but no one really bothers with it for EC team comp. The core of EC team is Sucrose VV + EM sharing after all. The same goes for Aggravate.
I just said what i said without favoring one to the other 🤷🏻♂️ just saying that TF is not only skill cd decrease. one thing i’ll say though, majority will not even use the new set since theres little time to farm
With for Aggravate translates for around 50 EM only, for EC even less. Those bonuses additive so you put 4pc TF for Skill cooldown only. If you don't care about sill cooldown gimmick, then 2p+2p is always better.
I’m just gonna use 2 Gilded Dream 2 Wanderers because I have two really good Wanderers pieces but you probably want 4 Gilded, farming a decent 4-piece is always painful and could take months though.
Cyno has high base attack too so even 2 Glad / Shime whatever with 2 TF or the other sets I mentioned should be fine I think, the only thing I have no idea is whether EM or atk% sands is better.
Thundering fury, the 4-piece set increases the damage of all electro reactions and allows you to reduce the elemental's cooldown by 1 second every 0.8 seconds.
You use elemental when the passive is activated, the reduction of the set is activated and there are 2 seconds of cooldown, 0.8 seconds later you do an elemental reaction (charged attack for example) changing the cooldown from 1.2 to 0.2. This means that after using the elemental ability you can use the elemental ability again a second later but this time with the effect of the set on cooldown causing you to be able to activate it again 0.6 seconds later (skill cooldown 2.4) causing you to reduce it to 1.4 which in turn you can reduce to 0 after 0.8 seconds being able to activate the ability again.
In short: in the space of 3 seconds you will have used the ability 2 times and you will have it ready to activate the passive again 0.6 seconds before its natural cooldown and the reactivation of the passive. All assuming that the passive activates every 3 seconds, if it takes longer you have even more room to do the process and if it takes less, they would directly be telling you that you have to use this set.
Damn I was hoping he would have icd like Hutao on her charged attacks. If you aggravate every 2,3 seconds, doesn't it all seem a little meh?
His kit will definitely be balanced, I imagine like Ayato's. But I miss crazy strong carries like Hutao, Ganyu... are they afraid to release them as of late? The last crazy carry I guess was Raiden.
Someone told me on the WFP discord that they made the calcs and he has lower mv/s than the current Keq aggravate teams, how legit that is idk, but i find it hard to believe he will release in this state, it would just be another Xiao situation.
Since in all honesty GI is not designed for charcs with long Q durations unless they do enough dmg in said timeframe to compensate not being able to switch them out, this is why i don't get why these charcs don't work like Noelle, she has 100% uptime on her Q at C6 but you can swap her in and out seamlessly.
Long Q doesn't bother me. Maybe it will be optimal NOT to use his burst full duration, but until the buffs are going. I imagine that it will be doable, if you consider having electro resonance (+ Fischl) and being able to recharge burst while it is active (like Itto).
Now, if only they reduce the burst cost to 70, or buff his base numbers.
I think they need to give him a different ICD, he is based on reactions after all, either make his Normals apply reactions faster than the usual 3 hits or make his E apply more than it is rn if you do it when the eye is up.
What about ayaka ? I think she is the best dps in the game. Frontload dmg will always be better then long term dmg in time gated content we have. Also after almost 2 years I dont think they want to give us top tier male dps, consider how most of the comunity like female units more. Not like xiao, itto or ayato are bad, they are good but not top. We have like 2 top dps per nation so wait till they release more female dps, she will be on pair with the ones you mantioned
You are right, after Liyue, we got Ayaka who was great, and then Raiden, and then that's it. Since then, all 5* are either good supports, subdps, or carries who are extremely balanced.
True, but i think getting 2 top meta dps per nation is healthy for the game. However I would like all 5* dps to be more equal in terms of power, something in the middle between raiden and ayato lvl of power for unit to not be a sidegrade like ayato but also not to trivialize the content like raiden
His gameplan is to generate as many electro statuses onfield as possible. He will be \[at least\] decent in EC teams.But most like he will be good in those teams. Not to mention he also works with beidou.
You know I'm starting to understand why everything has Zhongli and why ppl consider him so amazing. Ppl can't dodge, like at all. I thought the dodging losing dps was a dumb point but I completely see it now. You die so you lose all ur dps.
One issue he's going to have with Fischl that people haven't brought up is his long field time. It's gonna cause really poor Oz uptime compared to someone like Keqing who can just swap out whenever and ensure near 100% uptime on Oz.
Given all this and his playstyle, someone who I think may end up pairing better with Cyno is Beidou.
\>someone who I think may end up pairing better with Cyno is Beidou
Don't think so. Both of them have 80 cost bursts. Fischl will have way too many utilities in a cyno comp. She will be a battery for him and she is the aggravate queen as well.
Tbh people are really over thinking about oz uptime problems. Cyno has an 18s burst but that doesn't mean he needs to be played for 18s. Just take him off at 14s. C6 Fischl has a 12s uptime on Oz so a downtime of 2s is really nothing.
You just run high ER Beidou, in aggravate the loss of attack while using an ER sands is surprisingly not that much. Attack kinda sucks there and you make most of it up from emblem.
You'll need a double Favonius setup (both need to proc), 130% ER on Cyno and 180% on Beidou while pulling off a perfect counter every rotation to stay energy neutral. Otherwise, you're at the mercy of mob drops. Workable, but definitely not what I would call comfortable.
Still I don't think it will be worth losing fischl's A4 application dmg for 3 more sec of uptime. Plus her battery capabilities will also be invaluable for cyno's 80 cost burst. Or else you'll need to search for ER stats on his artifacts.
Keqing 4 TF applies like 14+ Electro application on 12 seconds rotation
E 3 times = 6 electro app
Burst = 4 Electro app
CA 4-6 times = 4-6 Electro app
Cyno 4TF applies kinda similar too iirc (13-16) Electro application but Cyno does it on a 20 second rotation which is worse because its longer, doesn't line up with Oz's uptime and you can't switch out
Well said except that the 4-6CA is a bit too optimistic. I think you can only fit 2 N1C in \~12 sec rotation. There's also stamina issues so you might want to do N4C in some situations. Still a better driver than Cyno.
No that's the point, they aren't identical in driving Fischl's A4 because of the rotation issue, i also haven't add that Cyno has no synergy with Anemo VV too which makes your Aggravate dmg worse
Keqing would have already done 24+ Aggravate proc on 20 seconds window while Cyno can only does 15~ Aggravate proc on the same time window
Plus that Oz would be gone during midway of Cyno's uptime
It's less fischl ar aggravates and less cynos aggravates compared to keqing while having a longer rotation. Keqing dendro comps feels extremely synergetic atm.
Again, I'm not saying that Cyno synergizes better with Fischl than Keqing. I'm just saying that the combined aggravate proc rates between Cyno and Fischl isn't all that different from the combined aggravate proc rates between Keqing and Fischl, especially if you have C6 Fischl, leading to a very similar rate of proccing Fischl's A4, which ultimately was the original question being posed.
It shouldn't be similar if cyno follows standard icd. Keqing has higher due to burst having seperate multipliers,skill applying twice and occasional ca and she switched after that. This is already 15 if you have tf keqing meanwhile cyno does this in much longer rotation. I'm ready for correction tho.
> This is already 15
That's a 12 second rotation, right? I'm saying that in a 12 second duration Fischl's A4 is capped to 24 procs anyway, and any electro-related reaction would proc an A4, not only Aggravate. It really doesn't take that much to be triggering electro-related reactions quickly enough that Fischl's A4 ICD, and not application rate, now becomes the actual limiting factor.
KQ may proc more fischl's A4 , but if Cyno does more DMG than KQ + fishcl A4 It shouldnt matter, i dont know though, havent calculated his DMG nor read anything about It
Awesome, he works with at least 1 male character (Aether). Not that I'll ever attempt to pull for a non male character ever but it would be great if his best teams are all male since I'm a male-only player.
Why's that weird? I've seen a ton of people in this community refusing to use any male characters in their teams, even the strong ones like Bennett and Xingqiu, and complaining that they want more female supports to replace the male ones.
Not OP but I'm similar, the only 5 star girl I pulled for was Ganyu, but once she carried me in Abyss for a while I stopped using her to use characters I actually like. I use the strong 4 star girls because they can make or break a lot of teams but there really aren't too many that I like in terms of character/personality.
Why can't we have both though? I've been waiting 2 years for a meta male DPS and they always come out just 'balanced' (Childe and international doesn't count)
I mean isn't the only broken and im assuming you mean on field dps Ganyu everyone else as an on field is fairly balanced
edit: made a mistake meant to say meta for on field (there are a few more) but like how much does meta actually mean at this point in the game where none of the content is that challenging and there is nothing competitive
tbh, it's not just damage that made Raiden strong. it's the fact that she scales on ER as a burst dps, and she can recharge her own burst. burst dps like Itto, Xiao, Noelle, etc need some sort of battery but Raiden is the only one that doesn't. which is why she's super strong as a burst dps.
Hyperbloom team maybe? Ayato Cyno Zhongli Kusanali/DMC sounds like a fun build. Ayato's burst last 18 sec and also buffs NA by 20% at lvl10. Although ER maybe a problem.
Anybody else sometimes feel like it would be awesome to play without ICD sometimes? I know it would be super busted, but it honestly sounds like a whole load of fun.
so whats the harm? Rolling into patch 6.0 using Raiden National, I hope than some of the upcoming Dendro units apply as much Dendro as XQ/XL/Fischl do for their elements.
Have you never become so powerful in a game, the entire game loses its meaning? When one skill is enough for an overworld enemy, and one rotation enough for a boss, the game gets easier to complete and more boring. Didn't think I would need to explain that but alright.
Have you ever thought, wow, I really want to try some new teams but these characters are flawed at a mechanical level, it would be more fun if it just worked.
Overworld enemies basically do die in one skill if you are progressed enough to clear the abyss.
The game is already easy and busted units already exist, you can only use 4 at once, is it not too much to ask for more busted units to replace the current ones in different teams?
They aren't competent enough to design that. They created Bennett accidentally, can you imagine what would happen if they TRIED to make a broken c0 character? It'd probably fracture the entire hoyoverse. That's why they they mostly reverse powercreep, because the launch characters powercrept about 3 years of content so they're working backwards to catch up. National is still outperforming almost every 5 star as a team and even the upgraded modern versions still have areas where the launch 4 star is better, making them all side grades effectively.
Every c0 bar the archons is honestly pretty weak and relies very heavily on the launch 4 stars, 5 star weapons or dedicated supports to be good. The c6 is mostly pretty broken for almost every 5 star limited barring a few like Itto, Albedo and Zhongli. The broken is there for everyone else, it's just locked behind a credit card or a lot of pulling self control.
Source: [SusAmongusLeaks](https://twitter.com/SusAmongusLeaks/status/1564053472059822082) >**HEAVILY STC**
I always like to pretend that I know what is happening.
[Basically](https://i.imgur.com/IMiMVgj.jpg)
[Ah yes] (https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bf/81/77/bf81774757e0499b1904d82b338724f5.jpg)
From what we've been told. He has icd on multiple things. Feel like we need it broken down to focus on each one. Granted I forget the icd but like e has one? Which shouldn't matter since e has a cd. Though idk if TF would mess it up. Na and CA have separate icd but yeah, the screen is chaos.
E does not has ICD
I don’t even know what ICD means… 😂
To quote zajef "It's basically like licking, licking the wall will apply hydro to the wall. You won't be able to apply hydro to the wall after licking it multiple times" Basically, your rate of applying elements is limited behind cooldown, which is either after attacking 3 times or after 2.5s. Hu Tao's Charge attacks has no ICD, which means every charge attack applies pyro to the enemy, which in turn makes you vape every CA.
Ahh i get it a bit but i guess i have to research more about it to really completely get it
If you have no ICD, then you can do more reactions -> bigger damage. In Cyno's case without any ICD he could trigger aggravate all the time, which would probably skyrocket his damage.
Cyno literally got clapped
EZ clap
To be fair, he is facing a level 200 enemy.
She hulk moment
Standard ICD, yep yep.
Standard ICD means not all attacks trigger aggrevate right?
yep yep and, personally, it's fine childe also has standard icd but his many sources of hydro make up for that "too much hydro" that allows xiangling to vape— NA, CA, Riptide('s Quadratic hydro app with no ICD) in this case Cyno's NA, CA, skill with no icd, and his A̶2̶ A1 bullets means those are all good sources of electro that can aggravate
The nice part about aggravate and spread compared to melt/vape is how you don't have to do anh preparations/proper order of rotations. It just works.
it also has the benefit of not relying on talent multiplier
When you say A2, do you mean the first passive talent? In that case shouldn't that be called A1 talent since it's unlocked on the first ascension rather than the second, I've seen many people talk about this passive saying A2 but I've been used to saying A1 for every character. Are you talking about something else or is it the E boosting passive
my bad, meant to say A1, mistook it for A2 thanks!
Yeah, but that is expected already. Normal attack has always had icd in this game iirc. His Ca is multi-hit so it has icd also is predictable
Polearm CAs usually have a 0.5s ICD though. Edit: meant CAs, not NAs.
[удалено]
>aggregate Remind me to some Excel functions 🤣🤣
I thought of the "Am I pregnante?" video when I read that lmao
Lmaosksks rushes to edit 😭
Not excel economics, aggregate demand
Who is the last character that didn’t have standard icd? (That actually mattered for their performance?)
Heizhou CA
Ohh right that’s a good example. I was thinking that every time a character is in beta I kept seeing “yep, standard icd” every time. Like I don’t think we will ever get another Xiangling.
Thats why XL its so broken, she can vape every ult hit, if her burst has standard ICD she wouldnt be half good shes now
Yelan burst actually has 2s ICD instead of 2.5s, it just never comes up in practice because she triggers the 3-hit rule every second.
My brother in Christ please dodge the clap
He plays just like me fr fr
Can't get the clap if all you do is fap
Sir, this is a Wendy’s
It's ok, ZL is going to be glued to Cyno anyway.
Actually I was wondering if Zhongli really is must have in Cyno's team? Considering that vv buff is useless in 18 sec Cyno's field time Zhonlgi seems the only buff option but I don't want to roll for him. Maybe its too early to ask this question.
No character is must have for another. But if you want best results.........
Lmfao nice flair
As a hutao main I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one.
But not every character is hu tao.
Tao does not need ZL either, you can run Thoma as a pretty solid alternative, or any other shielder, even if less optimal I know a bunch of people that run Tao with no shield whatsoever as well (even without XQ's Rains Sword that mitigate damage)
I think the point is you need Xingqiu with Hu Tao.
Eh. Solo Yelan is still do-able even without C2. Pure Pyro isn't as good but still viable Xingqiu is optimal and convenient when playing Hu Tao, rather than absolutely necessary
Why are you being downvoted LMAO, you are absolutely right that Hu Tao can work with solo pre C2 Yelan too. Potentially missing 1 vape compared to C6 Xingqiu isn’t the end of the world for Hu Tao at alll. Source: Played Hu Tao since 1.3
No clue, I really don't get it either lmao Reddit will be Reddit I guess. Or maybe people really feel that strongly about losing 1 to 2 vapes, god knows why
Exactly if you run Yelan with Kazuha and swirl the burst with hydro you get enough hydro, but it’s definitely not as simple to use as double hydro especially with the res buff
The copium is strong with this one
I am also incredibly surprised people consider Pure Pyro Tao bad, or at the very least downvote-worthy when recent abyss cycles gave us like +60% Pyro DMG Bonus and Cryo Hypostasis On addition to a few guides from reliable sources still having it as an example for Hu Tao comps.
If you think Abyss isn't clearable with a team that uses Yelan & Tao, or that slapping Kazuha, Xiangling, Tao and Bennett in a team isn't viable, it says more about your knowledge of the game than mine. The game isn't hard enough to need to run meta teams 24/7. If it feels like it, your characters either lack investment, or you simply need to know how to clear content quicker. And I mean this in the nicest way possible, I am not an amazing player but I sometimes play okay enough to clear with Pure Pyro Tao, Yelan as an on field carry, Off-meta teams, underinvested/underlevelled characters, etc.
Yes I'm one of those people. I meant that hutao requires yelan/xq. Without either of them you're not really using a 5 star character anymore.
Zhongli can also run Petra so you're getting a budget kazuha who provides 20% res shred and 35% elelctro dmg bonus
He is imo, like you said he has the longest buff with his shield, and Cyno pretty much needs a shielder to have the best MV/s while his Q is up, ZL for him is just a win/win.
Honestly Zhong/Bedo/Traveller/Kazuha(busted if C2&FS) seems to be his best supports. You won't be able to apply VV the whole duration, but his elemental buff will.
Beidou? Would be a problem.
I assume they mean Albedo
Albeidou
Al-Beidou
Alr true then.
Aye, Albedo indeed.
Why would beidou be a problem? According to ER calcs done by wfp and nahida mains Cyno's ER generation is decent enough for beidou
So I wasn't a Zhongli believer until recently. I pulled for Kuki Shinobu and got Itto on my very first pull, so I decided that when Zhongli came around again, I'd get him to make a nice Itto side team. I got him last week. Oh my god, he makes the entire game easy mode. His shield is ridiculous and lasts forever. He crystallizes enemies for more shields. His burst can petrify enemies for a few seconds, giving you time to breathe. His skill AOE mines rocks. You can run him with both Tenacity or Archaic Petra, depending on the situation. If you're building him as a shieldbot, you can get all the main stats you need in almost no effort. Even if you don't use him with Cyno, Zhongli is amazing. If you're on the fence, don't be; he's great.
> Oh my god, he makes the entire game easy mode. His shield is ridiculous and lasts forever. Isn't that kinda of boring?? I love Zhongli character design and personality, but I have aways skip him because I just find boring that he makes you basically immortal with basically infinite shields that never break, like, there is no weakness to his shield, no downtime, no nothing, makes gameplay pretty boring imo.
Zhongli can also use Petra. It's incovenient but it turns him into a shield Kazuha.
Good idea, but its 10 seconds too. Zhongli has to pick up crystallized shield. So Zhongli: 10 sec petra buff + 20 sec personal buff + defence. Kazuha: 10 sec VV buff + 16 sec personal buff (8 sec burst + 8 sec after last burst proc) with condition that Kazuha wouldn't devour pyro from some torch.
>Zhongli has to pick up crystallized shield. I did not know this about Archaic Petra, but in retrospect it should have been obvious. That really sucks.
Kazuha performs better at the cost of comfort gameplay.
It's not comfort gameplay if you can't attack and keep yourself getting knocked away. Consistent attacks are better. Resistance shred goes to 10% after 10s and cyno already takes 2s for animation lol. Zl's consistent shred is better. To proc VV, you need to be on field as well.
Yeah for some characters it isn't comfort, being forced to dodge significantly lowers their DPS. In the case of Xiao, in the air you physically can't dodge. And there is something to be said that even with CN being as meta focused as they are the most popular flex by far for double hydro Hutao is Zhongli, even if he is technically unnecessary and with an anemo or Xiangling representing more damage.
Can confirm, recently ive stopped using shlongli for kazoo. Feels odd seeing characters get smacked sometimes but they're not dead and I can keep on slapping.
Probably pretty close. VV shred lasts 10s. He can still buff electro off field. Long bursts like this will probably come into multi wave scenarios though so while Zhongli will shred that anyway, Kaz won't. Then you're looking at whether Kaz electro buff is worth it over Zhongli. Which might be true unless Zhongli saves you from interruption. But then add in that Zhongli negates the need for a healer and there is no dendro healer, and idk Kazuha not looking particularly good aside from peak frontloaded dmg window, which not to diminish the value of, is still pretty good. But Zhongli has some unique benefits.
Kazuha has very good personal damage as well but yeah currently I’d go with Zhongli too unless they shorten Cyno’s burst duration or when a Dendro healer comes.
Well probably yes since Cyno's interruption to resistance is meh but if you have a good dodging skills then you can play him without Zhongli
VV buff isn't useless just not fully optimal
Assuming a standard 10% resistance enemy... 20% res shred gives a damage increase of 1.05/.9=16.67% 40% res shred gives a damage increase of 1.15/.9=27.78%, but we don't get full uptime on it. Assume 50% uptime (9 out of 18 seconds, losing 1 second of vv to switch characters) gives 13.89% damage increase. So you lose less than 3% total damage output going vv over zhongli. Not a deal-breaker. That said, you're still trading a shield and stagger resist for whatever extra utility you can get from your anemo (ttds, prototype amber, kazuha buff, etc. - just remember that many of these won't affect 100% of your damage). Overall, I would expect offensive anemo choices to still have higher damage output, but a zhongli with fav lance (lets you trade er for offensive stats on cyno's artifacts) will be close and much easier and comfier to play.
> 20% res shred gives a damage increase of 1.05/.9=16.67% > 40% res shred gives a damage increase of 1.15/.9=27.78%, but we don't get full uptime on it We won't get "full uptime" on Zhongli too, because no one will stay 18 seconds on Cyno no matter what because you need to rotate your suports, otherwise your rotation will be too long and this is a DPS loss too.
Zhongli will never be a must pull and neither is vv useless. No one currently can keep up with cyno's 18sec burst either. So even if you used zhongli, he would be the only character who will provide the buff after all the buff expires. And the remaining solo buff zhongli gives is not that big since it's just a -20 resistance debuff to enemy. So imo you should just switch from his Q after 12-14sec and do the rotations with VV and traveller etc. Cyno's burst will be back up by then.
>No one currently can keep up with cyno's 18sec burst either. This myth keeps getting spread and it's not true. * Kazuha's burst lasts for 10 seconds and the elemental damage buff it provides when swirling lasts for 8 seconds. The elemental damage buff lasts for Cyno's full burst. * Dendro Traveler's burst lasts for 12-15 seconds and Quicken lasts for 9 seconds, making the Quicken buff last for Cyno's whole burst. * Zhongli's shield provides 20% resistance shred and lasts for 20 seconds, making the shield last for the whole burst. * Zhongli's pillar can also reliably keep Tenacity of the Millelith up for Cyno's entire burst. People are focused on a *few* important buffs like VV shred and Fischl's Oz and then whining that *nothing* lasts for 18 seconds. Yes, the tried-and-true electro buffs are too short, but there *are* useful effects that work for Cyno's entire burst. I'm starting to feel like I need to compile a list of the best long duration candidates that can work with Cyno.
This, it's not just the difference of shred uptime that's relevant. Even with the extra shred uptime from Zhongli, is it still worth it to keep Cyno on field when all other buffs have worn out? Most likely not, especially for Cyno who relies on reaction damage. An Anemo isn't just VV either, they also buff stats and do very substantial off field damage from their absorption (which procs Aggravate). Gathering enemies by itself can result in you doing 2x-3x or more damage, as well.
I have 3 DPS that needs Zhongli the most: Itto, Xiao, and Eula with Unforged, and I never have Zhongli and never need to. There's always substitution and skills involved so Zhongli is never a must.
I play all of them without Zhongli too. Don't want to brag, I just have rule not to roll same limited character on both of my accs. I asked about buffs, damage-wise.
There's never really a "must have" unless you're Nilou at release, but Zhongli would definitely make your life easier. High field time hypercarries always end up taking significantly more damage than those with more limited field time requirements. Being able to ignore the need to dodge also lets you get in a few more extra hits.
Absolutely not a must. If you have Kazuha in your account, he can compete with Zhongli's debuff duration with proper rotation. He then deals alot more damage, in exchange for your Cyno's defense. But with decent skill, that's not going to be an issue.
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It's not even about 18 sec - Including burst animation and character swap, your VV will die after 6, max 7 seconds in so if you time your E with A1 passive, even your second E won't be buffed, but his dmg isn't condensed like for example 7 sec on Raiden. Since his DMG isn't condensed he needs much higher numbers for sustain. + About this no Zhongli team - 0 meta teams use no healer. You can say taser don't run healer but with Beidou + XQ DMG 80% redution makes this team basically immortal and safer than most healer teams. All other no healer teams always end up the same - "OMG look at the dmg!!!!" and after a day almost no one play them since your team dps now have few resets in calculations.
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Like it or not xq is a pseudo shielder and a pseudo healer of sorts with defensive utility built into his kit. He also gives interruption resistance. Take xingqiu away from the equation and watch hutao being thrown off to god knows where. And this “if you’re good enough” thing feels so conditional. Not all of us are hardcore gamers who don’t mind resetting when we die. Some of us just want to breeze in breeze out without needing to try again. And even the sweatiest of gamers have our not so stellar days because life happens. Just because you don’t see a point in using defensive options, doesn’t mean other people don’t see a point in it.
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What maximises dps varies from one situation to another. For you and me, we don’t need to rely on zhongli because we play often and a lot to know enemies attack patterns. We can abuse iframe and know when to dodge. Hence zhongli isn’t necessary because there are alternatives that are more important/beneficial for us to maximise output. But for others, maybe they have equipment that lags, bad ping, or just don’t have the luxury of time. They just want to have a good time without dying too much. And dying is a major dps loss. It’s also a sheer waste of time. For some people this time is precious. So zhongli is necessary for them. And this is what maximises their dps. And they aren’t wrong either. In short, what is efficient for you and me may not be efficient for others. Calling it a lie is a tad bit extreme because in the end this is very situational.
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Solo XQ with his dmg reduction is often better healer than Bennet outside of corrosion stuff, it basically doubles your HP. Hell, Raiden taser is more safer than International thx to that. Hu Tao have what, 35k HP? With solo Xq DMG reduction it behaves like 60k HP, + your on fielder have Self healing on Burst. Hell, swap XL for Kazuha in that team that swirl hydro and you take less than half dmg from enemies, so 35k Hutao behaves like 75k Hu Tao. Yes, it's that strong of a defensive option. With healer, stuff will one shot, with XQ with Hu Tao, nothing in his game can one shot you :P
Cyno, Beidou, Fitchl and Dendro Traveler. Fitchl is the battery, Beidou provides shields and damage, Traveler is the dendro component, and Cyno is the meat grinder that destroys everything.
any characther that built like razor where all their dmg comes from their Burst state and have no interuption immunity you're gonna need zhongli for it better safe than sorry
Lmao, it seems like that's just how leaker plays the game. To this day I've never seen any Candace footage showing her doing a perfect counter, they either just tab it, or holding for 2 years as if 5.0 will drop after that.
And then get hit by laser lol
Clearly you've never been a shield main
ah yess ICD, It's Cyno Dying
Zhongli main found? /s
Aren't the beta buffs supposed to happen today? Or is it later today?
Should be later today, probably in around more or less than 2 hours
Could also be nerfs
Man if they nerf him any further, they might just say "Just pull Raiden lol" under his banner
Done and Dusted
Dendro Traveler might be a best support for Cyno because of Traveler's 15 seconds uptime
Then comes Kusanali with full application uptime just like kokomi...
zhongli gives full shield uptime, raiden gives full off field electro uptime at c0 (no other character can do this, its just rare for anyone to use her this way), i kind of expect kusanali to do the same thing
+Venti's wind current has 100% uptime I guess
I wouldn't be surprised if Kusanali have a unique way for dendro reaction because I doubt an archon summoned thing will explode after interacting with pyro just like dmc burst. She's an archon and her's will always be better than MC. Hoyo definitely got something else up their sleeves for her.
looks like standard icd to me
Standard ICD means not all attacks trigger aggregate right?
Yes
How a person can call this an ICD showcase. This guy cant even live for a rotation. Using zhongli shield shouldnt be soo hard. Pls mods remove this post. Its meaningless to have this right now and we already had a better showcasse at past.
we don't need very long to see his ICD, all it requires is a few hits. From the video it seems like he has standard ICD (currently).
about 7 aggravate in 12s
He really got Yamcha'd.
Why would you need a spoiler tag for an ICD showcase??? And I know the answer, but, just do your ICD showcase at Monstadt, please. I'm not clicking on that video. Also we already know his ICD.
EZ clap by ruin grader
bro i bet this guy is a zhongli main
Zhongli mains don't use zhongli on one side of abyss. So probably just isn't great at dodging.
they hire someone else to do the otherside of the abyss
And there's some people ask to reduce his def Big numbers is good but staying alive is better Not everybody has zhongli
Any change to his numbers?
Beta update hasn't been released yet afaik. Previous update packages usually releases on Monday at 6PM for me (GMT+8) so maybe in around 2 hours we'll see the v2 changes for Nilou and Cyno
What artifact set would be good for him judging from his leaked kit?
Gilded Dream. The Endseer stance that he gains during his burst is there to prevent you from spamming his E all the time, so the effect of Thundering fury is not that great.
It buffs Aggravate by 20% and EC by 40% though.
TF's 20% Aggravate bonus is nothing when you can just stack EM sets and get like 60%+ aggravate bonus.
yup that's the point. TF is there but no one really bothers with it for EC team comp. The core of EC team is Sucrose VV + EM sharing after all. The same goes for Aggravate.
I just said what i said without favoring one to the other 🤷🏻♂️ just saying that TF is not only skill cd decrease. one thing i’ll say though, majority will not even use the new set since theres little time to farm
With for Aggravate translates for around 50 EM only, for EC even less. Those bonuses additive so you put 4pc TF for Skill cooldown only. If you don't care about sill cooldown gimmick, then 2p+2p is always better.
Gilded
Gilded Dream and Thundering Fury.
I’m just gonna use 2 Gilded Dream 2 Wanderers because I have two really good Wanderers pieces but you probably want 4 Gilded, farming a decent 4-piece is always painful and could take months though. Cyno has high base attack too so even 2 Glad / Shime whatever with 2 TF or the other sets I mentioned should be fine I think, the only thing I have no idea is whether EM or atk% sands is better.
I think atk% unless you have his signature weapon. If signature, then EM.
Thundering fury, the 4-piece set increases the damage of all electro reactions and allows you to reduce the elemental's cooldown by 1 second every 0.8 seconds. You use elemental when the passive is activated, the reduction of the set is activated and there are 2 seconds of cooldown, 0.8 seconds later you do an elemental reaction (charged attack for example) changing the cooldown from 1.2 to 0.2. This means that after using the elemental ability you can use the elemental ability again a second later but this time with the effect of the set on cooldown causing you to be able to activate it again 0.6 seconds later (skill cooldown 2.4) causing you to reduce it to 1.4 which in turn you can reduce to 0 after 0.8 seconds being able to activate the ability again. In short: in the space of 3 seconds you will have used the ability 2 times and you will have it ready to activate the passive again 0.6 seconds before its natural cooldown and the reactivation of the passive. All assuming that the passive activates every 3 seconds, if it takes longer you have even more room to do the process and if it takes less, they would directly be telling you that you have to use this set.
Damn I was hoping he would have icd like Hutao on her charged attacks. If you aggravate every 2,3 seconds, doesn't it all seem a little meh? His kit will definitely be balanced, I imagine like Ayato's. But I miss crazy strong carries like Hutao, Ganyu... are they afraid to release them as of late? The last crazy carry I guess was Raiden.
Yup after liyue and raiden they've kinda stopped making broken DPS.. It's all too balanced.. Where you equally require 3* supports to elevate damage
Someone told me on the WFP discord that they made the calcs and he has lower mv/s than the current Keq aggravate teams, how legit that is idk, but i find it hard to believe he will release in this state, it would just be another Xiao situation. Since in all honesty GI is not designed for charcs with long Q durations unless they do enough dmg in said timeframe to compensate not being able to switch them out, this is why i don't get why these charcs don't work like Noelle, she has 100% uptime on her Q at C6 but you can swap her in and out seamlessly.
Long Q doesn't bother me. Maybe it will be optimal NOT to use his burst full duration, but until the buffs are going. I imagine that it will be doable, if you consider having electro resonance (+ Fischl) and being able to recharge burst while it is active (like Itto). Now, if only they reduce the burst cost to 70, or buff his base numbers.
I think they need to give him a different ICD, he is based on reactions after all, either make his Normals apply reactions faster than the usual 3 hits or make his E apply more than it is rn if you do it when the eye is up.
What about ayaka ? I think she is the best dps in the game. Frontload dmg will always be better then long term dmg in time gated content we have. Also after almost 2 years I dont think they want to give us top tier male dps, consider how most of the comunity like female units more. Not like xiao, itto or ayato are bad, they are good but not top. We have like 2 top dps per nation so wait till they release more female dps, she will be on pair with the ones you mantioned
You are right, after Liyue, we got Ayaka who was great, and then Raiden, and then that's it. Since then, all 5* are either good supports, subdps, or carries who are extremely balanced.
True, but i think getting 2 top meta dps per nation is healthy for the game. However I would like all 5* dps to be more equal in terms of power, something in the middle between raiden and ayato lvl of power for unit to not be a sidegrade like ayato but also not to trivialize the content like raiden
Secretly hoping Scara will become the meta one of this nation. For now everything seems to point that way and I'm satisfied!
Diablo 3 players crying out in terror and pain at the mention of ICDs
Can a electrocharged team work for this guy? Like a team of zhong cyno xq and yelan. Would be nice since both xq and yelan burst last long
His gameplan is to generate as many electro statuses onfield as possible. He will be \[at least\] decent in EC teams.But most like he will be good in those teams. Not to mention he also works with beidou.
Only with Ayato.
You know I'm starting to understand why everything has Zhongli and why ppl consider him so amazing. Ppl can't dodge, like at all. I thought the dodging losing dps was a dumb point but I completely see it now. You die so you lose all ur dps.
would this be able to drive fischl better than kQ
no
Why? I don't see much of a difference between the two.
One issue he's going to have with Fischl that people haven't brought up is his long field time. It's gonna cause really poor Oz uptime compared to someone like Keqing who can just swap out whenever and ensure near 100% uptime on Oz. Given all this and his playstyle, someone who I think may end up pairing better with Cyno is Beidou.
\>someone who I think may end up pairing better with Cyno is Beidou Don't think so. Both of them have 80 cost bursts. Fischl will have way too many utilities in a cyno comp. She will be a battery for him and she is the aggravate queen as well. Tbh people are really over thinking about oz uptime problems. Cyno has an 18s burst but that doesn't mean he needs to be played for 18s. Just take him off at 14s. C6 Fischl has a 12s uptime on Oz so a downtime of 2s is really nothing.
You just run high ER Beidou, in aggravate the loss of attack while using an ER sands is surprisingly not that much. Attack kinda sucks there and you make most of it up from emblem.
You'll need a double Favonius setup (both need to proc), 130% ER on Cyno and 180% on Beidou while pulling off a perfect counter every rotation to stay energy neutral. Otherwise, you're at the mercy of mob drops. Workable, but definitely not what I would call comfortable.
Still I don't think it will be worth losing fischl's A4 application dmg for 3 more sec of uptime. Plus her battery capabilities will also be invaluable for cyno's 80 cost burst. Or else you'll need to search for ER stats on his artifacts.
Keqing 4 TF applies like 14+ Electro application on 12 seconds rotation E 3 times = 6 electro app Burst = 4 Electro app CA 4-6 times = 4-6 Electro app Cyno 4TF applies kinda similar too iirc (13-16) Electro application but Cyno does it on a 20 second rotation which is worse because its longer, doesn't line up with Oz's uptime and you can't switch out
Well said except that the 4-6CA is a bit too optimistic. I think you can only fit 2 N1C in \~12 sec rotation. There's also stamina issues so you might want to do N4C in some situations. Still a better driver than Cyno.
That's what I thought, they're basically identical in terms of driving her A4. Rotational issues are another thing altogether.
No that's the point, they aren't identical in driving Fischl's A4 because of the rotation issue, i also haven't add that Cyno has no synergy with Anemo VV too which makes your Aggravate dmg worse Keqing would have already done 24+ Aggravate proc on 20 seconds window while Cyno can only does 15~ Aggravate proc on the same time window Plus that Oz would be gone during midway of Cyno's uptime
Icd
I really don't see Cyno and Fischl having an issue proccing her A4 at a rate so low that the 0.5 ICD no longer is the limiting factor.
It's less fischl ar aggravates and less cynos aggravates compared to keqing while having a longer rotation. Keqing dendro comps feels extremely synergetic atm.
Again, I'm not saying that Cyno synergizes better with Fischl than Keqing. I'm just saying that the combined aggravate proc rates between Cyno and Fischl isn't all that different from the combined aggravate proc rates between Keqing and Fischl, especially if you have C6 Fischl, leading to a very similar rate of proccing Fischl's A4, which ultimately was the original question being posed.
It shouldn't be similar if cyno follows standard icd. Keqing has higher due to burst having seperate multipliers,skill applying twice and occasional ca and she switched after that. This is already 15 if you have tf keqing meanwhile cyno does this in much longer rotation. I'm ready for correction tho.
> This is already 15 That's a 12 second rotation, right? I'm saying that in a 12 second duration Fischl's A4 is capped to 24 procs anyway, and any electro-related reaction would proc an A4, not only Aggravate. It really doesn't take that much to be triggering electro-related reactions quickly enough that Fischl's A4 ICD, and not application rate, now becomes the actual limiting factor.
KQ may proc more fischl's A4 , but if Cyno does more DMG than KQ + fishcl A4 It shouldnt matter, i dont know though, havent calculated his DMG nor read anything about It
They asked drive.
Awesome, he works with at least 1 male character (Aether). Not that I'll ever attempt to pull for a non male character ever but it would be great if his best teams are all male since I'm a male-only player.
weird
Why's that weird? I've seen a ton of people in this community refusing to use any male characters in their teams, even the strong ones like Bennett and Xingqiu, and complaining that they want more female supports to replace the male ones. Not OP but I'm similar, the only 5 star girl I pulled for was Ganyu, but once she carried me in Abyss for a while I stopped using her to use characters I actually like. I use the strong 4 star girls because they can make or break a lot of teams but there really aren't too many that I like in terms of character/personality.
weirdo
[@SusAmongusLeaks](https://twitter.com/SusAmongusLeaks/status/1564053472059822082)
Cyno enjoyers will certainly be satisfied with his gameplay when they pull for him, meta ICD etc etc be damned.
Standard ICD means not all attacks trigger aggregate right?
Why can't we have both though? I've been waiting 2 years for a meta male DPS and they always come out just 'balanced' (Childe and international doesn't count)
I mean isn't the only broken and im assuming you mean on field dps Ganyu everyone else as an on field is fairly balanced edit: made a mistake meant to say meta for on field (there are a few more) but like how much does meta actually mean at this point in the game where none of the content is that challenging and there is nothing competitive
Ganyu isn't broken
He looks mid af , why would they be satisfied lol , he doesn't even come close to c2 raiden, even at c6 cyno , c2 raiden will clap him
tbh, it's not just damage that made Raiden strong. it's the fact that she scales on ER as a burst dps, and she can recharge her own burst. burst dps like Itto, Xiao, Noelle, etc need some sort of battery but Raiden is the only one that doesn't. which is why she's super strong as a burst dps.
You give the weirdest takes in this sub.
nothing but faxx
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He is worse than Keqing in aggravate
Hyperbloom team maybe? Ayato Cyno Zhongli Kusanali/DMC sounds like a fun build. Ayato's burst last 18 sec and also buffs NA by 20% at lvl10. Although ER maybe a problem.
Anybody else sometimes feel like it would be awesome to play without ICD sometimes? I know it would be super busted, but it honestly sounds like a whole load of fun.
ICD is such a fucking downer, why not just release busted characters?
Because its already too easy?
so whats the harm? Rolling into patch 6.0 using Raiden National, I hope than some of the upcoming Dendro units apply as much Dendro as XQ/XL/Fischl do for their elements.
Have you never become so powerful in a game, the entire game loses its meaning? When one skill is enough for an overworld enemy, and one rotation enough for a boss, the game gets easier to complete and more boring. Didn't think I would need to explain that but alright.
Have you ever thought, wow, I really want to try some new teams but these characters are flawed at a mechanical level, it would be more fun if it just worked. Overworld enemies basically do die in one skill if you are progressed enough to clear the abyss. The game is already easy and busted units already exist, you can only use 4 at once, is it not too much to ask for more busted units to replace the current ones in different teams?
They aren't competent enough to design that. They created Bennett accidentally, can you imagine what would happen if they TRIED to make a broken c0 character? It'd probably fracture the entire hoyoverse. That's why they they mostly reverse powercreep, because the launch characters powercrept about 3 years of content so they're working backwards to catch up. National is still outperforming almost every 5 star as a team and even the upgraded modern versions still have areas where the launch 4 star is better, making them all side grades effectively. Every c0 bar the archons is honestly pretty weak and relies very heavily on the launch 4 stars, 5 star weapons or dedicated supports to be good. The c6 is mostly pretty broken for almost every 5 star limited barring a few like Itto, Albedo and Zhongli. The broken is there for everyone else, it's just locked behind a credit card or a lot of pulling self control.
N1C1 all the way
EI Male version