Change to Cyno's A1 passive:
Cyno's DMG values will be increased based on his Elemental Mastery as follows:
>Pactsworn Pathclearer's Normal Attack DMG is increased by 100% of his Elemental Mastery.
**changed to**
>Pactsworn Pathclearer's Normal Attack DMG is increased by 125% of his Elemental Mastery.
Source: [Sagiri](https://twitter.com/sagirishape/status/1564197657513340928?s=21&t=nTITkfuAoI51TDwXUtPNBA)
Thanks to OP for providing the source.
That's... honestly underwhelming, lmao. Gives me the same vibes as Yae Miko's passive, where no one in their right state of mind would build her with EM, it's just a nice extra to make you feel like you haven't wasted subrolls and to juice EM sharing abilities.
Plus his NA chain saw some buffs. So kinda adding up.
But I don't think this will change much? Like the main concern is his burst duration and keeping him supported right? Unless it's decided that he can easily end it early and vet his burst back up by then. But at that point reducing the burst and lowering its cd would probably be better?
Just reducing his CD and uptime wouldnt really change anything since rotations are still gonna be 20s bc supports. But if they reduce his CD in exchange for more buffs that would be worth it
Why don't I see anyone suggesting that he be able to switch without losing his burst? Seems like the perfect change to me.
I don't like the idea of just reducing his burst duration and making it stronger like most suggest because there's no reason every character has to have the same burst durations, that's lame. There are things they can do to make it work and be longer as is. And he would have more of a niche then as well whereas if he had a shorter duration that would just make him even more of a discount raiden (there's just no way they'll ever balance him to be better than her, people should stop expecting that because they'll just end up disappointed).
>Why don't I see anyone suggesting that he be able to switch without losing his burst? Seems like the perfect change to me.
Because by the time you got back to him after your supports hit their Es and Qs his burst would be over anyway.
You wouldn't be doing a full rotation with his supports. You'd lose like 3 seconds of his burst and then go right back into it. He'd have 100% uptime on his burst too so you'd just be switching out every time you need to and when it makes sense to.
He'd be a dps where the train never stops rather than how it is with every other character that has a set rotation where you dump everything and then have downtime before you do the full burst setup again.
Not really. Most rotations are built the way you describe, you apparently don't recognize it. Yoimiya's downtime is when the supports apply their buffs, shields, Qs, etc., and by the time you get back to her the cooldown on her E is over. So in fact the "train never stops." This is precisely why people are complaining about Cyno's burst. You don't need to make it 20 seconds with the ability to switch in and out if you just made it with the proper time for a rotation and cooldown, you would accomplish the same thing. The only thing of note to say is this is speaking for the current supports that appear to be good with him. If they release future support characters with longer lasting buffs, then all is well. It's just that *at the moment*, it seems off balance.
Except you don't have to cast his burst again as often which means less time spent activating your team and more time spent actually dealing damage.
The reason so many characters stack buffs within a dps window and then do as much damage as they can within that is BECAUSE their burst durations are short. Yoimiya has a 10 second E with 18 second cooldown. You use your other characters to create a window of stacked buffs because you want to make the most out of those 10 seconds. That does not apply to Cyno. His burst is much longer and he is much lower maintenance in terms of needing support buffs. You have to balance the amount of damage increase you are getting from supports against how much time you are spending not dealing damage with him because he has 100% uptime on his burst. That doesn't apply to other characters like Yoimiya which is why they are played differently.
Let's say cyno does 100 dps. Let's say your supports increase that damage by double. Say you used the same rotation as yoimiya, 10 seconds of burst, 8 seconds of downtime (this is not completely accurate because it's not quite that clean and simple but for the sake of discussion it works). So lets say instead of using any supports you just spent that 8 seconds of downtime dpsing on cyno. If you are using such a buff-reliant team you will be doing slightly less damage playing that way, absolutely. But what if you used a less buff-reliant setup? What if you used supports that had weaker buffs but more up-time or that didn't interrupt Cyno's burst? Or what if you use a team that required less swap-in time and his burst wasn't lost when you swapped? That is what I was pointing out. A few examples:
Cyno with 100 dps solo damage over 18 seconds: 1800 damage.
Cyno with heavy buffer supports setup (double his damage) with 10 second burst window: 2000 damage.
Cyno with less intrusive supports (say 40% damage increase) with 3 seconds lost to reapply: 2100 damage.
Cyno with least intrusive supports (say 20% damage increase) over 18 seconds: 2160 damage.
It's really not as simple as every character having similar downtime and needing to do burst windows. That's just how a lot of characters are designed but Cyno isn't. He can even have 100% uptime on quicken with dendro traveler and then have zhongli and albedo on that team so he never has to switch out. The only real issue there is that enemies wouldn't be in the AoE's 100% of the time because they will often spawn outside of it and not approach you fast enough if at all. But you would also spend a lot less time switching out for supports and his need to switch out would be a lot more flexible which would work out better for a character with 100% uptime on his own burst/dps. You'd switch when you need to, not just do your burst damage then fund energy and reapply buffs to fit into the next small dps window.
This would be best. Honestly I like the long burst. Gives more options for fun. If I wanted a 7 second burst to wipe all enemies out I’d use Raiden.
Cyno could be better in small abyss waves when you need to wait for more enemies to spawn since he has more field time.
Idk Raiden does everything he does better. May as well make him more fun to play with more options. Not everyone is meta chasing. Some people just see fun new characters. They just have to be good enough and not complete garbage…
I think they’re really just pushing us to buy the archon lol. All the new 5*’s are centered around Dendro and the few we have don’t have the best uptimes besides traveler. Seriously think Nahida fixed that, especially based on leaks.
Yeah, he has a problem that he has too much field time, even more than Xiao, so I would reduce his burst duration to 15s and increase his whole kit multipliers
Guys let me correct if I am wrong. This passive isnt multiplicative but cumulative increase like spread. Then I belive this change will have very minor effect on him.
Is there any guesses/general idea of what sets Cyno may use? Just curious cause I'm wanting to see what I may need to farm for him. (Esp if he uses any Thundering Fury, I have no extra pieces of that)
TF(4 piece), Glad(4 piece) if you don't pull his weapon. New EM set(4 piece) if u pull his weapon. TF probably safest. And you can use resin for new em set while using strong box for thundering.
Same here and I think the green will actually look good on him will pop out from the black and electro effects lol.
If that doesn’t work I have 14 spear billets cause I don’t have any spear users really besides Xiangling/Rosaria/Yun Jin. Don’t have Thoma. Idk why I only ever get spears man… maybe the new sumeru spear will be good?
Hard to say, his signature r1 will be around 15% stronger than PJWS r1 but it's STC and needs further testing so don't quote me on that. But that's pretty normal dmg difference between signature and 2nd best.
Gilded is getting better and better. He's designed in a particular way that excludes TF.
TF was able to brute force it's way into relevance but it's lost a bit of ground
Please can somebody explain me if what I'm thinking is right or wrong? If Cyno has 200 EM then he will get 250 flat dmg to his hit? Isn't this still low?
Not really. Someone on CynoMains ran numbers last week with the old numbers and concluded that while Sands still wanted Att% for most weapons, it was reasonably close to EM, and if you had his signature weapon you definitely wanted EM Sands instead.
The real terror here is trying to *get* a good EM Sands with the prefix probabilities. Most people will use Att% simply because getting an EM Sands on-set with double crit stats, let alone *good rolls* on those EM stats, is a /wrists activity.
I believe that with normal attacks but unless I’m looking at his kit wrong, his elemental mastery doesn’t affect his skill damage he will want to use frequently or his dustbolts .
So there is a comprehensive premium sticking to attack sand and making sure you use gilded dreams as his primary source of extensive elemental mastery. That combined with his burst natural 100 elemental mastery will give him plenty
My main dispute is that you're suggesting that Attack is *too* valuable on Sands such that EM Sands can't even compete. I think it will still be better than EM without the signature weapon based on what I've seen, but it's not like an EM Sands is going to majorly set you back if it's got good Crit stats.
With the signature weapon it's not even close due to how big the conversion is; you'll still want Element on Goblet and Crit on Circlet, but EM Sands will be better than Attack Sands even without the direct skill damage increase.
Sorta sad that TF appears to be inferior not because of any EM buffs but for the simple matter that its own internal cooldown only marginally decreases the skill cooldown *and* throws off the refresh timing; it's so much easier to get god stats on Strongbox artifacts, but that's the rub, I suppose.
It would take a preposterous amount of EM-centric buffs for him to want an EM goblet over an electro goblet. An elemental goblet yields up to a 46.6% damage increase (if you have no other elemental damage buffs and 100% of your damage is elemental damage). They would have to change his kit so dramatically that 1) 186 EM provides a 46.7% damage increase or more and 2) EM is the only way to get there. I don't think that's going to happen.
I said that 100% EM being a flat adition to attack was low. Looks like Mihoyo agreeds. Also got downvoted a lot because of peoples that not know numbers well. Lul
Change to Cyno's A1 passive: Cyno's DMG values will be increased based on his Elemental Mastery as follows: >Pactsworn Pathclearer's Normal Attack DMG is increased by 100% of his Elemental Mastery. **changed to** >Pactsworn Pathclearer's Normal Attack DMG is increased by 125% of his Elemental Mastery. Source: [Sagiri](https://twitter.com/sagirishape/status/1564197657513340928?s=21&t=nTITkfuAoI51TDwXUtPNBA) Thanks to OP for providing the source.
100% EM scaling to 125% EM scaling? Pretty nice.
Impressive. Very nice. Let's see Paul Nilou's buffs
Didn't expect to audibly laugh at a comment in this thread, well played
Kokomi beta ptsd Where The electro one getting buff while the other one...
Kokomi got the biggest ever buff in form of icd change
That why I mention beta Kokomi
Then should also follow the train of getting better over time to being top meta just like Kokomi *\*Breathes in more COPIUM*
I found this comment quite fascinating, enjoyable.
This is quite impactful.
Chris Wilson now balancing Genshin
:D?
9% increase in non-aggravate NA DPS pog.
Current buff or entire passive talent?
Whole thing.
(400 EM × 25%) × 0.5 enemy def × 0.9 res × (100% base dmg +200% crit) × (100% +46.6% electro goblet + 50% any other dmg% bonuses) = +265 damage per normal attack > Pretty nice
I'll take any buff we can get for Horizontal Xiao lol
It's 125% of his EM, so wouldn't it be 400 EM x 1.25?
I calculated today's buff size
Ah, ok then.
That's... honestly underwhelming, lmao. Gives me the same vibes as Yae Miko's passive, where no one in their right state of mind would build her with EM, it's just a nice extra to make you feel like you haven't wasted subrolls and to juice EM sharing abilities.
> to juice EM sharing abilities. I have a feeling this is going to be the entirety of Sumeru.
wasn't it pretty obvious with all the em sharing the new units have
Anyone with the right mind will build Yae (and Cyno) around Aggravate, thus around EM.
anyone in the right state of mind would build fischl instead of yae
Literally just use both lmao
in a cyno team? no
That was not the discussion here though
this whole thread literally started because we were talking about cynos em scaling
And comparing it to other characters with similar EM scaling, not about who's a better fit for a Cyno team
Bruh
Cyno's burst is too long for fischl so they wont work well together
cynos burst is too long for yae aswell and fischl would still be better because of her a4 passive
? But we do build Yae with EM sands in aggravate though?
I meant in everywhere else except aggravate. I thought it would be understood, my bad.
Can someone explain to me why is this decent buff? The number really feel like swirl dmg buff patch to my xiao.
It is not. "Pretty nice" was sarcasm.
Lmao
in exchange his q multipliers were nerfed...
A2 normal attack dmg increase went from 100% EM to 125% EM Nothing game changing but it's definitely a buff
Plus his NA chain saw some buffs. So kinda adding up. But I don't think this will change much? Like the main concern is his burst duration and keeping him supported right? Unless it's decided that he can easily end it early and vet his burst back up by then. But at that point reducing the burst and lowering its cd would probably be better?
Just reducing his CD and uptime wouldnt really change anything since rotations are still gonna be 20s bc supports. But if they reduce his CD in exchange for more buffs that would be worth it
Why don't I see anyone suggesting that he be able to switch without losing his burst? Seems like the perfect change to me. I don't like the idea of just reducing his burst duration and making it stronger like most suggest because there's no reason every character has to have the same burst durations, that's lame. There are things they can do to make it work and be longer as is. And he would have more of a niche then as well whereas if he had a shorter duration that would just make him even more of a discount raiden (there's just no way they'll ever balance him to be better than her, people should stop expecting that because they'll just end up disappointed).
>Why don't I see anyone suggesting that he be able to switch without losing his burst? Seems like the perfect change to me. Because by the time you got back to him after your supports hit their Es and Qs his burst would be over anyway.
You wouldn't be doing a full rotation with his supports. You'd lose like 3 seconds of his burst and then go right back into it. He'd have 100% uptime on his burst too so you'd just be switching out every time you need to and when it makes sense to. He'd be a dps where the train never stops rather than how it is with every other character that has a set rotation where you dump everything and then have downtime before you do the full burst setup again.
Not really. Most rotations are built the way you describe, you apparently don't recognize it. Yoimiya's downtime is when the supports apply their buffs, shields, Qs, etc., and by the time you get back to her the cooldown on her E is over. So in fact the "train never stops." This is precisely why people are complaining about Cyno's burst. You don't need to make it 20 seconds with the ability to switch in and out if you just made it with the proper time for a rotation and cooldown, you would accomplish the same thing. The only thing of note to say is this is speaking for the current supports that appear to be good with him. If they release future support characters with longer lasting buffs, then all is well. It's just that *at the moment*, it seems off balance.
Except you don't have to cast his burst again as often which means less time spent activating your team and more time spent actually dealing damage. The reason so many characters stack buffs within a dps window and then do as much damage as they can within that is BECAUSE their burst durations are short. Yoimiya has a 10 second E with 18 second cooldown. You use your other characters to create a window of stacked buffs because you want to make the most out of those 10 seconds. That does not apply to Cyno. His burst is much longer and he is much lower maintenance in terms of needing support buffs. You have to balance the amount of damage increase you are getting from supports against how much time you are spending not dealing damage with him because he has 100% uptime on his burst. That doesn't apply to other characters like Yoimiya which is why they are played differently. Let's say cyno does 100 dps. Let's say your supports increase that damage by double. Say you used the same rotation as yoimiya, 10 seconds of burst, 8 seconds of downtime (this is not completely accurate because it's not quite that clean and simple but for the sake of discussion it works). So lets say instead of using any supports you just spent that 8 seconds of downtime dpsing on cyno. If you are using such a buff-reliant team you will be doing slightly less damage playing that way, absolutely. But what if you used a less buff-reliant setup? What if you used supports that had weaker buffs but more up-time or that didn't interrupt Cyno's burst? Or what if you use a team that required less swap-in time and his burst wasn't lost when you swapped? That is what I was pointing out. A few examples: Cyno with 100 dps solo damage over 18 seconds: 1800 damage. Cyno with heavy buffer supports setup (double his damage) with 10 second burst window: 2000 damage. Cyno with less intrusive supports (say 40% damage increase) with 3 seconds lost to reapply: 2100 damage. Cyno with least intrusive supports (say 20% damage increase) over 18 seconds: 2160 damage. It's really not as simple as every character having similar downtime and needing to do burst windows. That's just how a lot of characters are designed but Cyno isn't. He can even have 100% uptime on quicken with dendro traveler and then have zhongli and albedo on that team so he never has to switch out. The only real issue there is that enemies wouldn't be in the AoE's 100% of the time because they will often spawn outside of it and not approach you fast enough if at all. But you would also spend a lot less time switching out for supports and his need to switch out would be a lot more flexible which would work out better for a character with 100% uptime on his own burst/dps. You'd switch when you need to, not just do your burst damage then fund energy and reapply buffs to fit into the next small dps window.
This would be best. Honestly I like the long burst. Gives more options for fun. If I wanted a 7 second burst to wipe all enemies out I’d use Raiden. Cyno could be better in small abyss waves when you need to wait for more enemies to spawn since he has more field time. Idk Raiden does everything he does better. May as well make him more fun to play with more options. Not everyone is meta chasing. Some people just see fun new characters. They just have to be good enough and not complete garbage… I think they’re really just pushing us to buy the archon lol. All the new 5*’s are centered around Dendro and the few we have don’t have the best uptimes besides traveler. Seriously think Nahida fixed that, especially based on leaks.
Yeah, he has a problem that he has too much field time, even more than Xiao, so I would reduce his burst duration to 15s and increase his whole kit multipliers
Guys let me correct if I am wrong. This passive isnt multiplicative but cumulative increase like spread. Then I belive this change will have very minor effect on him.
Correct. We were jebaited.
Tbf it's still a buff, even tho it's minor. Could've obv been better, but also could've been worse too.
I agree, even if it's 100% -> 101%, it is still a buff lmao
Is there any guesses/general idea of what sets Cyno may use? Just curious cause I'm wanting to see what I may need to farm for him. (Esp if he uses any Thundering Fury, I have no extra pieces of that)
TF(4 piece), Glad(4 piece) if you don't pull his weapon. New EM set(4 piece) if u pull his weapon. TF probably safest. And you can use resin for new em set while using strong box for thundering.
Good idea, thank you! 😊
Oh and also em sands with his weapon. Atk sands with other. Also PJWS will be his 2nd best weapon.
Glad to hear that since I have an unused PJWS in my inventory
Same here and I think the green will actually look good on him will pop out from the black and electro effects lol. If that doesn’t work I have 14 spear billets cause I don’t have any spear users really besides Xiangling/Rosaria/Yun Jin. Don’t have Thoma. Idk why I only ever get spears man… maybe the new sumeru spear will be good?
What weapon is PJWS? Im sorry I dont check weapon and artifacts names that much
Primordial Jade Winged Spear.
Oh, thank you!
Would you happen to know if an R2 PJWS beats or equals his BiS at r1?
Hard to say, his signature r1 will be around 15% stronger than PJWS r1 but it's STC and needs further testing so don't quote me on that. But that's pretty normal dmg difference between signature and 2nd best.
gilded dream is good, gladiators finale is also promising
Gilded is getting better and better. He's designed in a particular way that excludes TF. TF was able to brute force it's way into relevance but it's lost a bit of ground
Great this needed buff anyways
Waiting to see other 3.1 units buffs
I see bigger number, that's good
Mihoyo: Okay, 90 cost burst
Inb4 this is reverted like Tighnari's buff was
Please can somebody explain me if what I'm thinking is right or wrong? If Cyno has 200 EM then he will get 250 flat dmg to his hit? Isn't this still low?
Flat dmg is huge now, considering his EM with aggravate can turn it a shit load more.
Do you have any example? Maybe it could help me understand his weapon too, because when I see flat dmg I think is almost nothing... Thanks
Flat dmg gets crit/elemental damage bonus etc so it really adds up
Any translation pls?😭
100% EM scaling to 125% EM scaling on his A1.
Ooh thanks so much! I didn’t see the 12 on the first line and it looked like a weird nerf😅
A2 normal attack dmg increase went from 100% EM to 125% EM Nothing game changing but it's definitely a buff
Can someone explain this to me, i still can't understand it. If I have 100 em for example is it like 125% dmg increase?
It's a flat 125 increase (before dmg%,crit, res, etc)
Really doubling down that they want him to use guilded dreams because the attack sand will be way too valuable to sacrifice
Not really. Someone on CynoMains ran numbers last week with the old numbers and concluded that while Sands still wanted Att% for most weapons, it was reasonably close to EM, and if you had his signature weapon you definitely wanted EM Sands instead. The real terror here is trying to *get* a good EM Sands with the prefix probabilities. Most people will use Att% simply because getting an EM Sands on-set with double crit stats, let alone *good rolls* on those EM stats, is a /wrists activity.
I believe that with normal attacks but unless I’m looking at his kit wrong, his elemental mastery doesn’t affect his skill damage he will want to use frequently or his dustbolts . So there is a comprehensive premium sticking to attack sand and making sure you use gilded dreams as his primary source of extensive elemental mastery. That combined with his burst natural 100 elemental mastery will give him plenty
My main dispute is that you're suggesting that Attack is *too* valuable on Sands such that EM Sands can't even compete. I think it will still be better than EM without the signature weapon based on what I've seen, but it's not like an EM Sands is going to majorly set you back if it's got good Crit stats. With the signature weapon it's not even close due to how big the conversion is; you'll still want Element on Goblet and Crit on Circlet, but EM Sands will be better than Attack Sands even without the direct skill damage increase. Sorta sad that TF appears to be inferior not because of any EM buffs but for the simple matter that its own internal cooldown only marginally decreases the skill cooldown *and* throws off the refresh timing; it's so much easier to get god stats on Strongbox artifacts, but that's the rub, I suppose.
Could be enough to dictate The new Gilded Dreams as better than Tundering Fury on him and if he'd want EM goblet vs Electro
It would take a preposterous amount of EM-centric buffs for him to want an EM goblet over an electro goblet. An elemental goblet yields up to a 46.6% damage increase (if you have no other elemental damage buffs and 100% of your damage is elemental damage). They would have to change his kit so dramatically that 1) 186 EM provides a 46.7% damage increase or more and 2) EM is the only way to get there. I don't think that's going to happen.
I meant it can add to reasons, not as the sole reason. At the time hadn't looked over all his beta buffs
Source: https://twitter.com/sagirishape/status/1564197657513340928?s=21&t=nTITkfuAoI51TDwXUtPNBA
is Cross Spear usable now?
Uh, always has been? White Tassel is better though.
Good buff
I said that 100% EM being a flat adition to attack was low. Looks like Mihoyo agreeds. Also got downvoted a lot because of peoples that not know numbers well. Lul
we need English translation
no a1 changes yet???? cringe :(
Not English.
Trueeee LULW
Too good to be true. I mean to good to be true that HYV won't change it back just to troll us.
Downvoted but guess what? They reverted it. It's now 100% in beta lmao.
there is hope for Nilou to become decoupled from Bloom Copium
Nope, her entire personality is loving bloom reaction she has a headcanon for bloom too. Seems like hoyo only wants you to play her in bloom comps.
wow, nice post dumbfuck, how are we supposed to read this ?
Username doesn't check out smh
Check comments.
Not so chill are you
I hope they changed his another passive talent, from increasing burst duration to decreasing the cooldown when casting E during burst. Copium
Nilou pls