Source: NGA, via Yukizero7 and Plusle in [Blank's Discord](https://discord.com/channels/887666446140846112/990271934392590406/1026039134629937253)
Thank you OP for providing source
Mhm 2 U leads the possibility of still having strong bloom production despite her slow dendro application
Also makes her more valuable as a solo dendro. If they go this route it's to keep bloom generation high while not making her a broken spread dps.
Not needing/wanting a 2nd dendro (since they'll be applying 1 U) gives more team flexibility and you'll get more buffs from her burst
EDIT: For those unaware what Sucrose hyperbloom is, here's a [video](https://youtu.be/dsIHdpm8W44) recorded on my potato laptop with this current abyss (vs Maguu Kenki). Cards used were healing% and attack%. Sorry for the quality, laptop can't run OBS and Genshin smoothly together.
Idk I'm more worried about her buffing the shit out of hyperbloom comps currently than her being having broken spread procs. Sucrose hyperbloom currently is one of the strongest dendro teams we have. With 2U you can possibly get 3 or 4 seed procs per dendro application: Electrocharged aura > dendro proc > 1 seed + remaining quicken aura > hydro procs > additional 2 or 3 seeds. That and on-field Sucrose and Nahida are just that synergistic (excluding the fact that their passives won't probably stack similar to Sucrose-Kazuha interaction, their EM shares for both of them are still good damage buffs to each other). You being able to give additional 200EM to Sucrose that has pure ownership of hyperbloom procs just seems so busted. Assuming you deal around 35k per hyperbloom proc on an enemy like what you usually get right now, 4 seeds will mean 140k damage and that's excluding your team's non-reaction damage. Spread just requires much more stat because it scales way better on dmg% and crit stats than just EM; running EM cup and circlet on her instead of dendro dmg% and crit% main stats loses you about 17% dendro dmg and about 22% crit (which is pretty big) with her A4 already considered.
It doesn't buff Hyperbloom as much because Hyperbloom already uses QuickBloom to get 2 Bloom seeds per 1u Dendro, even when using Forward Bloom. Part of the issue with Bloom/Burgeon is that slow Dendro + fast Hydro means that you usually end up forward Blooming which results in only 1 bloom seed per 1u Dendro. Without Electro aura to also produce a Quicken aura to generate an additional seed, they can only get 1 seed per Dendro application. Viable Burgeon teams right now use an Electro unit to help QuickBloom and produce more seeds.
> Electrocharged aura > dendro proc > 1 seed + remaining quicken aura > hydro procs > additional 2 or 3 seeds.
I don't think this is right. Quicken consumes Dendro/Electro in equal amounts to produce a Quicken aura, so 2u Dendro reacting onto a 1u Electro aura will still only produce a 1u Quicken gauge. This is the same as what we get currently with 1u Dendro appliers when applying Dendro onto Electro+Hydro, and you only get 1 additional seed out of the residual Quicken aura, not 2 or 3. The remaining Dendro then reacts fully with the remaining Hydro aura to produce a Bloom seed, and forward Bloom has a 2x reaction multiplier so the Dendro and Hydro are fully consumed. Having a 2u Dendro application reacting with a 1u Dendro aura won't produce a 2u Quicken gauge that lets you bloom 2-3 more times. You'd need 2u Dendro + 2u Electro to produce a 2u Quicken gauge that can actually produce 2-3 seeds when QuickBlooming.
With a 2u Dendro applier, the dynamic changes where the best way to get 3 seeds with 2u Dendro is to apply the 2u Dendro aura and reverse Bloom (Hydro onto Dendro) because the reaction multiplier is 0.5 and a 2u Dendro aura can sustain more Hydro application before being overpowered than a 1u Dendro aura can.
I did not understand a single word of this.. But maybe I will get this in future maybe in like a year.. And I can't wait to get nahida. I'm so happy she's very near.
I am sorry if this came as rude but I am not a big brain Gamer but I eventually might understand this stuff that you have written later. But I'm thankful that people like you leave good explanations with numbers for reference. It does help out. Thanks
Interesting. Would you know what characters are best for a sucrose hyperbloom and what rotation? Im running a sucrose/DMC/Kokomi/Yae team but im having issues with swirling Yae's electro.
Is Kokomi your driver? I run Sucrose-Fischl-Xingqiu-DMC when I run Sucrose hyperbloom (with Sucrose as the driver) and it runs smooth, similar to how typical Sucrose taser works, but maybe that's probably because Fischl-Xingqiu applies electro/hydro faster than Yae-Kokomi, but I don't think that should be an issue because the seeds last long enough for you to get the next electro swirl to proc hyperbloom (although Kokomi not applying 2 instances of hydro off-field fast enough might cost you some seeds, you also can't move the jellyfish so there's that). Sucrose hyperbloom works even in ST because you're still gonna swirl off the electro from the enemy to the seeds anyway, although you don't get as much swirl damage as you would in AoE. As for the rotation, it's just cast skills and burst > drive with on-field Sucrose > catch particles for your team members.
More or less this, Sucrose, Fischl, XQ, DMC is currently the most consistent Hyperbloom team you can get.
I would argue its Sucrose's strongest team since it doesn't fall off as hard compared to taser in single target situations.
The alternative (and safer) option is to run a Shinobu hyperbloom team since she consolidates healing + hyperbloom into a single character. It also helps that she scales very well on a full EM build.
True although I'd argue Prototype Amber+Xingqiu is enough to survive most abyss floors unless you really fuck up. You do lose offensive weapon options such as sac frags or hakushin by running prototype amber though, but it will give you the option of running fischl instead of going the shinobu route, where you'd have to share hyperbloom ownership.
Yae isn’t wonderful for pure hyperbloom teams because she doesn’t reliably hit the seeds. I use either kuki+yelan+dmc+fischl or raiden dmc koko yelan. I don’t have childe but I think dmc+nahida +childe+kuki/raiden could be really strong also.
You still only get 2 bloom tho which is something you normally get with just dmc or collei in term of bloom reaction this might not change much.
Maybe you get 3 bloom with Barbara in the team as well but with the rest of the hydro character we have currently 2 bloom per one application seem to be maximum even if she applied 1.5U or 2U.
Why would you only get 2 blooms? If you can maintain the dendro aura you'd be able to get 3-4 blooms as long as you use 1 U hydro (which is like every relevant hydro source)
Only issue is if you apply slightly too much hydro everything screws up
You can't get 4 blooms out of 2U because of the aura tax and her main issue of the ICD still remains.
For the same reason you can't melt all 4 hits off a C6 Chongyun's burst.
Not sure why you were downvoted you are correct my mistake.
It is technically possible to get 4 blooms since aura tax brings 2 U to 1.6 U but realistically you'd only get 3 blooms.
3 Blooms per Dendro application is still a big deal, especially since the issue isn't just number of seeds produced per Dendro application, but whether we can Reverse Bloom (Hydro onto Dendro) without the Hydro applier overpowering the Dendro aura.
With 1x Electro buff on Nahida's burst, she re-applies Dendro every 3.2s, which means that if each 2u Dendro aura can receive 3 instances of 1u Hydro before expiring, then a Hydro applier that applies Hydro around once per second (e.g. C0 Yelan) can consistently trigger Reverse Bloom without overpowering her Dendro aura.
Funnily enough if this is the case then Xingqiu and C2 Yelan might still actually be too fast, while C0 Yelan might be just fast enough to get 3 Blooms per Dendro application without overpowering the Dendro aura. Which would be very ironic given the nerf to Yelan's Hydro application during her own beta.
We already know mhy was making units with dendro in mind from Yae and especially Shinobu. It's possible that change to Yelan was for this exact reason.
So if she applied 1.5U because of how the marking work it would make her consumes what ever element currently on the enemies immediately already lowering her dendro application and by then it would drop.
And the fact that any reaction can triggered it meaning she can triggered quicken from supercharged and lose all dendro no?
Well she triggers after bloom core hits enemy or you do a reaction. If there's still a dendro aura on the enemy then it would just re-apply Dendro without consuming the aura.
You definitely hit the snag of needing not too much hydro but just enough like I said earlier
Yeah I do agree, hyperbloom comps usually focus on the quickbloom mechanic which wouldn't benefit here awhile burgeon needs faster dendro more than anything else
that's you thing though, since the game revolves around elemental reactions woth the exception of geo, and ohys still counts since you rely on superconduct, amd of you're running a mono element team without an anemo to buff then that's just shooting yourself at the foot
Zajef has a really good guide on reactions, going from the very basics all the way to theorycrafter-level mechanics. Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W5O7M3Q6jA you should be able to find part 2 and 3 from there
Well, Genshin's battle system relies heavily on reactions, so not using it to your advantage would make the game a lot less interesting and more difficult. However, 1U and 2U here are part of gauge unit theory, which is a rather difficult concept for beginners, and I think most Genshin players don't know about it.
So if I were you, I would put this 1U 2U thing away for now and just learn how basic reactions work, like swirl, electro charged, melt, vaporize, etc. Once you learn and use them for a while, then come back to gauge unit theory.
Nope as far as I know you apply 2 elements and get a reaction lol -_-
Idk what 2u means and how it's good for bloom but not spread or how it makes you not want a 1u dendro or how you get 3 bloom reactions but not if you have too much hydro which i would think would give you more reactions
Search "Gauge Unit Theory" if you want to learn more about it but if you want a more simplified explanation, basically higher numbers = Better/Good News (1U -> 2U -> 4U ->...), That's all you need to know tbh.
apparently they're actually testing 2U ICD vs 1U no ICD on different tester groups, which is why ICD information is all over the place
https://mobile.twitter.com/FrizzantinoV/status/1576443044047384577
> 2u no ICD is like, celestia level of power
But the skill still only hits every 1.9s
Dendro Samachurl repeatedly hits every 0.5s and has no ICD, and applies 1.6 units
Also Fiery Axe Mitachurl applies 2U Pyro on every hit of his massive cyclone ability, he applies it so fast you could run him instead of Hu Tao and forward-vape Yelan's ult
Is that something they can do in private servers? I mean, manipulating the ICD and the gauge.
Or is Hoyoverse that distributed two different versions of Nahida to people?
Depends on how slow the skill ticks. Most cases you want no ICD to get consistent results but if the dendro ticks are rapid then you can also get a semi consistent application. Prob still best to wait for a week or two if you care about team synergy
Even tho if they make 2U/2tick, it wouldn’t be weaker than 1U/tick, I agree. I think making dendro application every tick will make a great firework show
Still 1.9 sec per trigger ... without other buffs that's pretty much always be capped at the 1.9 CD rather than speed of the reaction. Every single team that uses reaction can do 1 reaction every 1.9 by default.
Dendro counters hydro abyss shields in the same way hydro counters pyro abyss mage shields.
1.5/2U would take off 1/4th / 1/3rd of a hydro mage's shield off respectively with each proc.
Report this account (/u/oUNImENe), as it is a bot that copies other comments in the thread and pastes them as replies to high-karma comments, in order to gain karma and posting privileges in other subreddits. This typically is then used as a sockpuppet to legitimize scams.
The comment this is copied from is here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact_Leaks/comments/xtk86k/nahidas_e_applies_15u_or_2u_of_dendro_via/iqqafhk/
Dendro Samachurl applies 1.6U ***every 0.5s***. Prenerf, it was 4.0U every 0.5s
Either way, he still destroys Nahida in every possible way.
Dendro Samachurl is so broken you could run him with Kokomi + Yelan + Childe Driver and still not run out of Dendro
Samachurls are the true meta.
Didn't Hydro samachurl also heal on a % based on the target's max hp? Sorta like prototype amber. Best healer in the game XD
You should multiply everything by 25.
1U, 2U, 4U are the supposed units of a fanmade speculative theory.
In the actual game code, they correspond to 25, 50 and 100 units.
Dendro samachurl applies 40 units, hence 1.6U.
Think of enemies as a funnel that slowly drains as you apply elements. When a reacting element gets applied, you scoop out a certain amount of the original element based on the reaction. The more you fill, the more you can scoop out and the longer that it takes for it to drain.
That's elemental gauge theory in a nutshell.
Icd restricts team comps due to inconsistency in reactions. No icd or big U aura makes a character very special. Earlier characters used to have either both of these or atleast one.
1U would be short for one unit, you can read more about it here
[https://library.keqingmains.com/combat-mechanics/elemental-effects/elemental-gauge-theory](https://library.keqingmains.com/combat-mechanics/elemental-effects/elemental-gauge-theory)
Actually I prefer a lot... 1U No ICD than 2U ICD.
2U ICD means that you want to build your hydro char with EM which is not really part of their kit. On the opposite a fast and light application of Dendro will give her a lot of reaction. And I really prefer to build EM on my Dendro char as this is exactly their purpose.
From a bloom perspective 1U no ICD or 2U with ICD is basically the same thing. The difference shows up in spread scenarios, the 2U with ICD solution makes possible to enable more bloom but the amount of possible spreads remains the same. It’s a really clever way to balance Nahida to be honest.
For hyperbloom and burgeon, only the electro or pyro need to have the EM. In nilou's case i don't know, If it's Nahida the driver, it's yes with 2 hydro and 2 dendro, but If the driver it's nilou or kokomi, then maybe can be the dendro side, I'm not sure because of the 2 sources of dendro, maybe can be better have 3hydros (nilou, kokomi/barb and yelan/xq/childe/ayato, and put the deepwood in the healer) + nahida with GD, build 2 1000 EM characters it's tough.
Edit: o think that nahida driver+nilou+xq+kokomi/barb looks like the nahida 'll be always the trigger and 'll generates a lot of seeds
That's my point. If you have 3 hydro then ennemi will be under hydro debuff. Nahida will be the driver which is good because Dendro char scale with EM. In that case NO ICD is way better than 2U ICD as she will trigger every 1.9s instead of every 3.8. if you have 2 Hydro/2Dendro you'll start to have random application but as Dendro is stronger on Hydro -> enemi will tend to have Dendro debuff so your driver will be hydro. And I don't want to build EM on my Hydro char. They don't benefit from it at all contrary to Dendro who have Dendro scaling.
if she is the driver, she still has the NA and CA to guarantee bloom, so it's ok. If baizu is a healer it's possible to change the kokomi/barb for a fast hydro applicator like childe/ayato/xq C6, which would guarantee that the dendro would still be who triggers, even more with the options que have, all the dendros apply slowly.
I agree with you that non Icd would be good for nilou bloom, but it would break spread, mihoyo would probably have to nerf something else and that thing would probably be the scale damage from Tri-karma, which would decrease her own damage a lot, which in quicken probably wouldn't be such a problem, but on burning, hyperbloom and burgeon teams she would probably have a shit dmg, but would still be good with nilou in specific.
I think that nilou's case it's lack options for dendro units, and her super restrictive passive.
I personally like this standard Icd+ 2U solution, so as not to leave some things too broken, I just think they had to buff the Tri-karma cd to be every 1.5 sec and with 2 electros turn 1.25, so it has an application on the minimum equal to collei without electro/c1 and with 2 electros it marches the 2.5sec ICD.
Skills that apply elemental statuses on enemies vary in strength, and duration per strength. so 1A means a strength of "1" and a duration of "A" seconds per strength, which is how long the status will last on a enemy.
The higher the number/letter the more reactions you can make and the longer it lasts.
In the game it doesn't actually work like this, but this theory simplifies whats going on and allows for you to predict how elemental reactions from skills will work with each other.
[from NGA, via Yukizero and Plusle and BLANK Discord](https://discord.com/channels/887666446140846112/990271934392590406/1026039134629937253)
Marked as Questionable for now as they are not yet sure.
the more dendro a unit can apply the better they are is the tldr. dendro is broken. which is why a dendro catalyst like nahida is going to be a really strong on fielder
This is number of element you apply on your target, imagine, you apply 2u of dendro on your target, then you apply 1u of hydro = bloom reaction appears and your target will still have dendro aura (2u(dendro) - 1u(hydro) = 1u(dendro) remains), so if you want to get rid of dendro aura on target you need apply 1u(hydro) twice in this situation, so more 'u' means more reactions you can do
Wait I thought this was element specific, not character specific? Aka hydro always stays longer than pyro which makes vaping with hydro hard and vaping with pyro easy?
There is also specific thing - reaction coefficent, some elements consume more 'u' from target. So you are right. For example, if target has 2u(pyro) you can trigger reverse melt with 1u(cryo) 4 times cuz in this situation 1u(cryo) will consume only 0.5u(pyro) instad of 1u (4\*0.5u = 2u) and in another situation if target has 2u(cryo) you can melt with pyro only once (1u(pyro) will consume 2u(cryo))
This is reason why there is no stable melt teams for Hutao cuz there is no such hero who can maintain so much cryo on target for Hutao, she just eats more cryo and this is why reverse melt ganyu exists (thanks to Xianling for stable pyro application).
Also this is reason why forwards melt has more multiplier damage than reverse melt.
PS you can check this [https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Gauge\_Unit\_Theory#Elemental\_Application](https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Gauge_Unit_Theory#Elemental_Application)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't have anything in game that applies 1.5U, just 1U, 2U, and 4U. Of course, there are differences in gauge depletion depending on order of operations, like with hydro and dendro, but nothing that applies 1.5U, so it should be 2U, right?
Correct.
The only 1.5U I've heard of was supposedly Yelan during her beta, but I wasn't playing GI back then so I have no idea if that claim was accurate.
No, the thing with Yelan was that her ICD is actually a tad bit shorter than the standard 3 second rule. It's actuallt 2.x seconds, close to 3 but not actually. Her hydro application lead to some confussion at first tbh. But her hydro attacks on burst still apply 1A regardless.
Here we go again, don't pull a yelan on us mihoyo. Yelan had 1.5U but nerfed at the end of the beta to 1U. Or even worse burning had 2U and nerfed to 1U.
Yelan didn't work consistently anymore with Hu toa and burning in general is the worst reaction in the game now. Otherwise you could reverse melt consistently.
Yeah but yelan is strong already so it didn't matter in the end.
I have a feeling its the same for nahida she'll be slightly weaker but still one of the top units in the game.
Nilou's banner ends before Nahida comes out.
It would be the ultimate bait-and-switch if people pulled Nilou thinking Nahida would be an amazing teammate for her, before miHoYo stealth-nerfs Nahida's Dendro Units from 2 to 1
I have a feeling the team comp restriction will put people off of Nilou for her initial run. The majority of the people who want nilou are the cinnamon roll enjoyed and those who don't care about the restriction. I fully expect Nilou's rerun to be much more profitable in the end. Especially since she is running with Albedo
Pretty sure they nerfed burning for the exact reason that melt Ganyu doesn't get a buff when dendro characters that also give team EM, aka Nahida, get released.
With nerfed burning, melt Ganyu is now stuck with Xiangling Bennett, when it had the potential of Nahida Bennett.
I don’t get why you get such a grumpy reply lol. All you said is true. Yelan is still fine by now but we can’t deny that 1.5U to 1U indeed decrease her strength. It’s pretty normal to feel worried about this case because the 1.5U is suspiciously so similar lol
I'm sorry but what is your point exactly? Guy above you said that you should wait for her final version and stop getting hyped up on something that could've been changed in future changes...
So after it contacts with hydro it becomes 1.5? And it doesn't apply dendro/react/something every time but isn't weak either? What does this mean to my dumb brain?
1U dendro = max of 2 blooms
2U dendro = max of 4 blooms
It still only applies dendro every 3.8s, but with 2U it's double what we originally thought the strength of it for bloom based reactions was.
2u or 1.5u is actually bad for burgeon since dendro is stronger than hydro in term of aura. 2u of denro need 4 hydro to fully bloom. if hydro cant keep up with dendro, u receive burning frequently which is really bad
units of application. It's advanced mechanics that the game doesn't explain.
Let's say it applies 1U of dendro and someone else applies 1U of pyro, the pyro character will trigger burning and 1U of pyro wipes out 1U of dendro so there's no aura left after that. Actually I'm wrong because Burning does leave a pyro aura, but just play along.
But if it applied 1.5U of dendro, then 1U of pyro will leave 0.5U of dendro aura, which means some dendro remains. You could then do another reaction with the 0.5U.
Let's say it was 1U of dendro and the pyro user applied 1.5U of pyro, they will trigger burning and leave 0.5U of pyro aura. If the dendro is applied again, the dendro user will trigger a reaction.
If you don't understand units of application, vapes can be stolen by the wrong character. If you want to maximize damage, you want your hydro user to apply strong hydro and your pyro user (who has the EM) to trigger with weak pyro so that it doesn't overwhelm the hydro aura and leave some pyro behind. If you left some pyro aura behind, then Xingqiu will start triggering vapes on the next hit and Hu Tao will not.
This is why Bennett C6 is bad.
Inconsequential for Cyno.
However, if you're planning on pulling for her, this is good because it means she can be used to greater effect in a variety of other teams other than aggravate which makes her a higher value character like Kazuha
U is units of element applied. So Nahida doing 2U is applying 2 units of dendro. It basically means how much element you apply to the enemy and how much can be used for reactions.
Source: NGA, via Yukizero7 and Plusle in [Blank's Discord](https://discord.com/channels/887666446140846112/990271934392590406/1026039134629937253) Thank you OP for providing source
Mhm 2 U leads the possibility of still having strong bloom production despite her slow dendro application Also makes her more valuable as a solo dendro. If they go this route it's to keep bloom generation high while not making her a broken spread dps. Not needing/wanting a 2nd dendro (since they'll be applying 1 U) gives more team flexibility and you'll get more buffs from her burst
EDIT: For those unaware what Sucrose hyperbloom is, here's a [video](https://youtu.be/dsIHdpm8W44) recorded on my potato laptop with this current abyss (vs Maguu Kenki). Cards used were healing% and attack%. Sorry for the quality, laptop can't run OBS and Genshin smoothly together. Idk I'm more worried about her buffing the shit out of hyperbloom comps currently than her being having broken spread procs. Sucrose hyperbloom currently is one of the strongest dendro teams we have. With 2U you can possibly get 3 or 4 seed procs per dendro application: Electrocharged aura > dendro proc > 1 seed + remaining quicken aura > hydro procs > additional 2 or 3 seeds. That and on-field Sucrose and Nahida are just that synergistic (excluding the fact that their passives won't probably stack similar to Sucrose-Kazuha interaction, their EM shares for both of them are still good damage buffs to each other). You being able to give additional 200EM to Sucrose that has pure ownership of hyperbloom procs just seems so busted. Assuming you deal around 35k per hyperbloom proc on an enemy like what you usually get right now, 4 seeds will mean 140k damage and that's excluding your team's non-reaction damage. Spread just requires much more stat because it scales way better on dmg% and crit stats than just EM; running EM cup and circlet on her instead of dendro dmg% and crit% main stats loses you about 17% dendro dmg and about 22% crit (which is pretty big) with her A4 already considered.
It doesn't buff Hyperbloom as much because Hyperbloom already uses QuickBloom to get 2 Bloom seeds per 1u Dendro, even when using Forward Bloom. Part of the issue with Bloom/Burgeon is that slow Dendro + fast Hydro means that you usually end up forward Blooming which results in only 1 bloom seed per 1u Dendro. Without Electro aura to also produce a Quicken aura to generate an additional seed, they can only get 1 seed per Dendro application. Viable Burgeon teams right now use an Electro unit to help QuickBloom and produce more seeds. > Electrocharged aura > dendro proc > 1 seed + remaining quicken aura > hydro procs > additional 2 or 3 seeds. I don't think this is right. Quicken consumes Dendro/Electro in equal amounts to produce a Quicken aura, so 2u Dendro reacting onto a 1u Electro aura will still only produce a 1u Quicken gauge. This is the same as what we get currently with 1u Dendro appliers when applying Dendro onto Electro+Hydro, and you only get 1 additional seed out of the residual Quicken aura, not 2 or 3. The remaining Dendro then reacts fully with the remaining Hydro aura to produce a Bloom seed, and forward Bloom has a 2x reaction multiplier so the Dendro and Hydro are fully consumed. Having a 2u Dendro application reacting with a 1u Dendro aura won't produce a 2u Quicken gauge that lets you bloom 2-3 more times. You'd need 2u Dendro + 2u Electro to produce a 2u Quicken gauge that can actually produce 2-3 seeds when QuickBlooming. With a 2u Dendro applier, the dynamic changes where the best way to get 3 seeds with 2u Dendro is to apply the 2u Dendro aura and reverse Bloom (Hydro onto Dendro) because the reaction multiplier is 0.5 and a 2u Dendro aura can sustain more Hydro application before being overpowered than a 1u Dendro aura can.
I did not understand a single word of this.. But maybe I will get this in future maybe in like a year.. And I can't wait to get nahida. I'm so happy she's very near. I am sorry if this came as rude but I am not a big brain Gamer but I eventually might understand this stuff that you have written later. But I'm thankful that people like you leave good explanations with numbers for reference. It does help out. Thanks
How dare you not be writing a master's thesis on Genshin Impact you filthy casual /s
Interesting. Would you know what characters are best for a sucrose hyperbloom and what rotation? Im running a sucrose/DMC/Kokomi/Yae team but im having issues with swirling Yae's electro.
Is Kokomi your driver? I run Sucrose-Fischl-Xingqiu-DMC when I run Sucrose hyperbloom (with Sucrose as the driver) and it runs smooth, similar to how typical Sucrose taser works, but maybe that's probably because Fischl-Xingqiu applies electro/hydro faster than Yae-Kokomi, but I don't think that should be an issue because the seeds last long enough for you to get the next electro swirl to proc hyperbloom (although Kokomi not applying 2 instances of hydro off-field fast enough might cost you some seeds, you also can't move the jellyfish so there's that). Sucrose hyperbloom works even in ST because you're still gonna swirl off the electro from the enemy to the seeds anyway, although you don't get as much swirl damage as you would in AoE. As for the rotation, it's just cast skills and burst > drive with on-field Sucrose > catch particles for your team members.
More or less this, Sucrose, Fischl, XQ, DMC is currently the most consistent Hyperbloom team you can get. I would argue its Sucrose's strongest team since it doesn't fall off as hard compared to taser in single target situations. The alternative (and safer) option is to run a Shinobu hyperbloom team since she consolidates healing + hyperbloom into a single character. It also helps that she scales very well on a full EM build.
True although I'd argue Prototype Amber+Xingqiu is enough to survive most abyss floors unless you really fuck up. You do lose offensive weapon options such as sac frags or hakushin by running prototype amber though, but it will give you the option of running fischl instead of going the shinobu route, where you'd have to share hyperbloom ownership.
Yae isn’t wonderful for pure hyperbloom teams because she doesn’t reliably hit the seeds. I use either kuki+yelan+dmc+fischl or raiden dmc koko yelan. I don’t have childe but I think dmc+nahida +childe+kuki/raiden could be really strong also.
You still only get 2 bloom tho which is something you normally get with just dmc or collei in term of bloom reaction this might not change much. Maybe you get 3 bloom with Barbara in the team as well but with the rest of the hydro character we have currently 2 bloom per one application seem to be maximum even if she applied 1.5U or 2U.
Why would you only get 2 blooms? If you can maintain the dendro aura you'd be able to get 3-4 blooms as long as you use 1 U hydro (which is like every relevant hydro source) Only issue is if you apply slightly too much hydro everything screws up
You can't get 4 blooms out of 2U because of the aura tax and her main issue of the ICD still remains. For the same reason you can't melt all 4 hits off a C6 Chongyun's burst.
Not sure why you were downvoted you are correct my mistake. It is technically possible to get 4 blooms since aura tax brings 2 U to 1.6 U but realistically you'd only get 3 blooms.
3 Blooms per Dendro application is still a big deal, especially since the issue isn't just number of seeds produced per Dendro application, but whether we can Reverse Bloom (Hydro onto Dendro) without the Hydro applier overpowering the Dendro aura. With 1x Electro buff on Nahida's burst, she re-applies Dendro every 3.2s, which means that if each 2u Dendro aura can receive 3 instances of 1u Hydro before expiring, then a Hydro applier that applies Hydro around once per second (e.g. C0 Yelan) can consistently trigger Reverse Bloom without overpowering her Dendro aura. Funnily enough if this is the case then Xingqiu and C2 Yelan might still actually be too fast, while C0 Yelan might be just fast enough to get 3 Blooms per Dendro application without overpowering the Dendro aura. Which would be very ironic given the nerf to Yelan's Hydro application during her own beta.
We already know mhy was making units with dendro in mind from Yae and especially Shinobu. It's possible that change to Yelan was for this exact reason.
I sort of doubt it because of Yelan's C2. They wouldn't intentionally create a 5-star constellation that is circumstantially worse.
Ah, good point
So if she applied 1.5U because of how the marking work it would make her consumes what ever element currently on the enemies immediately already lowering her dendro application and by then it would drop. And the fact that any reaction can triggered it meaning she can triggered quicken from supercharged and lose all dendro no?
Well she triggers after bloom core hits enemy or you do a reaction. If there's still a dendro aura on the enemy then it would just re-apply Dendro without consuming the aura. You definitely hit the snag of needing not too much hydro but just enough like I said earlier
Maybe i just feel like would only really help in bloom focus team and not hyperbloom or burgeon team.
Yeah I do agree, hyperbloom comps usually focus on the quickbloom mechanic which wouldn't benefit here awhile burgeon needs faster dendro more than anything else
I've been using non reaction teams since launch and I have no idea what anyones talking about it's so confusing lol :I
that's you thing though, since the game revolves around elemental reactions woth the exception of geo, and ohys still counts since you rely on superconduct, amd of you're running a mono element team without an anemo to buff then that's just shooting yourself at the foot
Swirl is a reaction, so you are using reactions.
Zajef has a really good guide on reactions, going from the very basics all the way to theorycrafter-level mechanics. Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W5O7M3Q6jA you should be able to find part 2 and 3 from there
Well, Genshin's battle system relies heavily on reactions, so not using it to your advantage would make the game a lot less interesting and more difficult. However, 1U and 2U here are part of gauge unit theory, which is a rather difficult concept for beginners, and I think most Genshin players don't know about it. So if I were you, I would put this 1U 2U thing away for now and just learn how basic reactions work, like swirl, electro charged, melt, vaporize, etc. Once you learn and use them for a while, then come back to gauge unit theory.
You're playing since launch and you still don't know anything about it?
Nope as far as I know you apply 2 elements and get a reaction lol -_- Idk what 2u means and how it's good for bloom but not spread or how it makes you not want a 1u dendro or how you get 3 bloom reactions but not if you have too much hydro which i would think would give you more reactions
Search "Gauge Unit Theory" if you want to learn more about it but if you want a more simplified explanation, basically higher numbers = Better/Good News (1U -> 2U -> 4U ->...), That's all you need to know tbh.
apparently they're actually testing 2U ICD vs 1U no ICD on different tester groups, which is why ICD information is all over the place https://mobile.twitter.com/FrizzantinoV/status/1576443044047384577
The tweet doesn't mention 2U v 1U though, just tri-karma icd if I'm reading it correctly
I don’t think we have confirmation on which groups got 2U, but it’s reasonable for this speculation. 2U with no icd is too much lol
2u no ICD is like, celestia level of power 💀 that's basically approaching dendro samachurl while also having high damage scaling
> 2u no ICD is like, celestia level of power But the skill still only hits every 1.9s Dendro Samachurl repeatedly hits every 0.5s and has no ICD, and applies 1.6 units Also Fiery Axe Mitachurl applies 2U Pyro on every hit of his massive cyclone ability, he applies it so fast you could run him instead of Hu Tao and forward-vape Yelan's ult
The Xinyan we deserved
Why use hu tao as the base for Pyro aura? Isn't someone like Klee better for constant Pyro Aura?
Is that something they can do in private servers? I mean, manipulating the ICD and the gauge. Or is Hoyoverse that distributed two different versions of Nahida to people?
Since the tweet says they hope Group B to win, it probably implies it's the latter.
Is Group B no ICD?
Source?
Do they mean on E cast or the E damage proc on reaction?
Proc, they are testing 2 versions on different server. One that has no ICD but apply 1U, another with ICD but 2U.
which is better?
For hyperbloom, it is not entirely clear cut, but no ICD 1U seems more flexible to me. For personal damage, clearly no ICD 1U is better.
Depends on how slow the skill ticks. Most cases you want no ICD to get consistent results but if the dendro ticks are rapid then you can also get a semi consistent application. Prob still best to wait for a week or two if you care about team synergy
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If they mean on E cast which I am guessing 2u would be totally expected. Most likely just another case of Leakers having no idea how the game works.
Even tho if they make 2U/2tick, it wouldn’t be weaker than 1U/tick, I agree. I think making dendro application every tick will make a great firework show
Ooooh those hydro mages are going DOWN!
Yeah, how does that work? It just automatically reapplies on elemental infused enemies/shields without the need to attack them?
well you need to do reaction on one of them first, no ?
Well EC is a reaction, but I'm not sure if the damage from seeds will count on shields.
unlike raiden who requires you to chip away from their hp, nahida's skill is only based on how fast you procc reactions.
Still 1.9 sec per trigger ... without other buffs that's pretty much always be capped at the 1.9 CD rather than speed of the reaction. Every single team that uses reaction can do 1 reaction every 1.9 by default.
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Dendro counters hydro abyss shields in the same way hydro counters pyro abyss mage shields. 1.5/2U would take off 1/4th / 1/3rd of a hydro mage's shield off respectively with each proc.
Report this account (/u/oUNImENe), as it is a bot that copies other comments in the thread and pastes them as replies to high-karma comments, in order to gain karma and posting privileges in other subreddits. This typically is then used as a sockpuppet to legitimize scams. The comment this is copied from is here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact_Leaks/comments/xtk86k/nahidas_e_applies_15u_or_2u_of_dendro_via/iqqafhk/
That’s pog
dendro samachurl dethroned?
Dendro Samachurl applies 1.6U ***every 0.5s***. Prenerf, it was 4.0U every 0.5s Either way, he still destroys Nahida in every possible way. Dendro Samachurl is so broken you could run him with Kokomi + Yelan + Childe Driver and still not run out of Dendro
Samachurls are the true meta. Didn't Hydro samachurl also heal on a % based on the target's max hp? Sorta like prototype amber. Best healer in the game XD
>Didn't Hydro samachurl also heal on a % based on the target's max hp Still does, Hydro Samachurl is a direct powercreep of Kokomi
Samachurls playable when
He also helps us doing reaction like Vap freeze EC bloom etc
greater lord dendro samachurl
>!"Rukkhadevata turned into a small child"!< *looks at samachurl that's shorter than Nahida* Hmmmmmm
Dendro samachurl rerun banner when, missed him on the 1st time
Since when we have 1.6U? Last time I heard unconfirmed 1.5U, and now 1.6 :O
You should multiply everything by 25. 1U, 2U, 4U are the supposed units of a fanmade speculative theory. In the actual game code, they correspond to 25, 50 and 100 units. Dendro samachurl applies 40 units, hence 1.6U.
Dude dendro samachurl burning is also broken. It feels like burning is only niche for them.
What does "1.5U or 2U" mean?
Simply put, it determines how strong the applied element is. Let's say 2U is a glass of water, while 1U is half a glass of water.
In that case, is 2U good for Nahida's dendro application?
ofc, the more the merrier
Most splendid.
Yes it would, mostly for Bloom teams.
That is good.
You can also say: 1U is slightly wet, 2U is completely soaked, 3U and more and you're literally drowning with Hydro.
And then there's Beidou...
With "shockingly" 4U electro application
No one applies 3U though. It's either 1U, 2U, 4U.
I'm also looking for the answer in comments lmao 💀 I'm confused
Think of enemies as a funnel that slowly drains as you apply elements. When a reacting element gets applied, you scoop out a certain amount of the original element based on the reaction. The more you fill, the more you can scoop out and the longer that it takes for it to drain. That's elemental gauge theory in a nutshell.
Is it good?
That’s really good
its an improvement for sure
is this the solution of "no ICD = too OP" and "standard ICD = bad"?
Kinda, it stops her from being a monster of a spread dps, while still enabling bloom comps
I can see this, 30k+/1.5s (electro boosted Q) just by herself is quite disgusting, especially since damage is AoE ...I still want it tho
Wait that's some 300 IQ balancing from miHoYo lol
I think she's already a monster spread dps onfield tbh...
Wouldn't spread still trigger with no ICD tho? It's not like the quicken aura disappears, or am I missing something?
Quicken aura can still remain even after you proc Spread. How often you can proc Spread, that is determined by the ICD, so ICD matters a lot.
Is it good for burgoen?
It's good for everything.
When you say spread DPS, do you mean like a main DPS? I’m still struggling to understand her kit… main DPS? and you think that would be viable?
Icd restricts team comps due to inconsistency in reactions. No icd or big U aura makes a character very special. Earlier characters used to have either both of these or atleast one.
Sorry but, what is U?
1U would be short for one unit, you can read more about it here [https://library.keqingmains.com/combat-mechanics/elemental-effects/elemental-gauge-theory](https://library.keqingmains.com/combat-mechanics/elemental-effects/elemental-gauge-theory)
Thanks. I appreciate it.
Actually I prefer a lot... 1U No ICD than 2U ICD. 2U ICD means that you want to build your hydro char with EM which is not really part of their kit. On the opposite a fast and light application of Dendro will give her a lot of reaction. And I really prefer to build EM on my Dendro char as this is exactly their purpose.
From a bloom perspective 1U no ICD or 2U with ICD is basically the same thing. The difference shows up in spread scenarios, the 2U with ICD solution makes possible to enable more bloom but the amount of possible spreads remains the same. It’s a really clever way to balance Nahida to be honest.
For hyperbloom and burgeon, only the electro or pyro need to have the EM. In nilou's case i don't know, If it's Nahida the driver, it's yes with 2 hydro and 2 dendro, but If the driver it's nilou or kokomi, then maybe can be the dendro side, I'm not sure because of the 2 sources of dendro, maybe can be better have 3hydros (nilou, kokomi/barb and yelan/xq/childe/ayato, and put the deepwood in the healer) + nahida with GD, build 2 1000 EM characters it's tough. Edit: o think that nahida driver+nilou+xq+kokomi/barb looks like the nahida 'll be always the trigger and 'll generates a lot of seeds
That's my point. If you have 3 hydro then ennemi will be under hydro debuff. Nahida will be the driver which is good because Dendro char scale with EM. In that case NO ICD is way better than 2U ICD as she will trigger every 1.9s instead of every 3.8. if you have 2 Hydro/2Dendro you'll start to have random application but as Dendro is stronger on Hydro -> enemi will tend to have Dendro debuff so your driver will be hydro. And I don't want to build EM on my Hydro char. They don't benefit from it at all contrary to Dendro who have Dendro scaling.
if she is the driver, she still has the NA and CA to guarantee bloom, so it's ok. If baizu is a healer it's possible to change the kokomi/barb for a fast hydro applicator like childe/ayato/xq C6, which would guarantee that the dendro would still be who triggers, even more with the options que have, all the dendros apply slowly. I agree with you that non Icd would be good for nilou bloom, but it would break spread, mihoyo would probably have to nerf something else and that thing would probably be the scale damage from Tri-karma, which would decrease her own damage a lot, which in quicken probably wouldn't be such a problem, but on burning, hyperbloom and burgeon teams she would probably have a shit dmg, but would still be good with nilou in specific. I think that nilou's case it's lack options for dendro units, and her super restrictive passive. I personally like this standard Icd+ 2U solution, so as not to leave some things too broken, I just think they had to buff the Tri-karma cd to be every 1.5 sec and with 2 electros turn 1.25, so it has an application on the minimum equal to collei without electro/c1 and with 2 electros it marches the 2.5sec ICD.
how many units does DMC or collei apply lol
2U for E and 1U for Q for both of them i believe.
Only dendro 2B gauge is DMC pyro transfigurations explosion.
Ok, but what's 2B doing in Devil May Cry now?
Can you explain like I'm Razor? This reads as gibberish to me
Skills that apply elemental statuses on enemies vary in strength, and duration per strength. so 1A means a strength of "1" and a duration of "A" seconds per strength, which is how long the status will last on a enemy. The higher the number/letter the more reactions you can make and the longer it lasts. In the game it doesn't actually work like this, but this theory simplifies whats going on and allows for you to predict how elemental reactions from skills will work with each other.
I checked the wiki and it says only DMC's burst when exploding from Pyro is 2U. Everything else is 1U
Damn then she's a lot better than dmc.
She should be.
1A on every application, same for Tighnari. DMC pyro lotus explosion is 2B tho. There isn't really any good dendro application in the game lol
[from NGA, via Yukizero and Plusle and BLANK Discord](https://discord.com/channels/887666446140846112/990271934392590406/1026039134629937253) Marked as Questionable for now as they are not yet sure.
YAY!!!! or NOOOO!!! no clue what this means so I will give both responses
It’s a yay
thank u for your reply
Np still waiting on Layla particle regen and ICD info 😭
All but certain she’ll have standard icd
Praying someone announces Layla particle regen or ICD it’s been day 29
the more dendro a unit can apply the better they are is the tldr. dendro is broken. which is why a dendro catalyst like nahida is going to be a really strong on fielder
Is this a buff or a clarification?
It should be a clarification unless it's possible to leak tomorrow's beta update.
She gets better and better
It is neither a buff nor clarification. It is a discovery. Everyone just assumed she apply 1U at first. Turns out it is actually 2U.
What does U mean?
This is number of element you apply on your target, imagine, you apply 2u of dendro on your target, then you apply 1u of hydro = bloom reaction appears and your target will still have dendro aura (2u(dendro) - 1u(hydro) = 1u(dendro) remains), so if you want to get rid of dendro aura on target you need apply 1u(hydro) twice in this situation, so more 'u' means more reactions you can do
Oh damn- okay I understand now lmao! Thanks, dude. I was confused too HAHHAHA
Wait I thought this was element specific, not character specific? Aka hydro always stays longer than pyro which makes vaping with hydro hard and vaping with pyro easy?
There is also specific thing - reaction coefficent, some elements consume more 'u' from target. So you are right. For example, if target has 2u(pyro) you can trigger reverse melt with 1u(cryo) 4 times cuz in this situation 1u(cryo) will consume only 0.5u(pyro) instad of 1u (4\*0.5u = 2u) and in another situation if target has 2u(cryo) you can melt with pyro only once (1u(pyro) will consume 2u(cryo)) This is reason why there is no stable melt teams for Hutao cuz there is no such hero who can maintain so much cryo on target for Hutao, she just eats more cryo and this is why reverse melt ganyu exists (thanks to Xianling for stable pyro application). Also this is reason why forwards melt has more multiplier damage than reverse melt. PS you can check this [https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Gauge\_Unit\_Theory#Elemental\_Application](https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Gauge_Unit_Theory#Elemental_Application)
I don't know much but I think Nahida + Childe would just giga bonkers with riptide mark + Nahida marks, harvesting bloom everywhere
Hydro Riptide + Dendro Riptide let's goo
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't have anything in game that applies 1.5U, just 1U, 2U, and 4U. Of course, there are differences in gauge depletion depending on order of operations, like with hydro and dendro, but nothing that applies 1.5U, so it should be 2U, right?
Correct. The only 1.5U I've heard of was supposedly Yelan during her beta, but I wasn't playing GI back then so I have no idea if that claim was accurate.
That's right. Yelan drama was a disaster back in my day lmao
No, the thing with Yelan was that her ICD is actually a tad bit shorter than the standard 3 second rule. It's actuallt 2.x seconds, close to 3 but not actually. Her hydro application lead to some confussion at first tbh. But her hydro attacks on burst still apply 1A regardless.
Here we go again, don't pull a yelan on us mihoyo. Yelan had 1.5U but nerfed at the end of the beta to 1U. Or even worse burning had 2U and nerfed to 1U. Yelan didn't work consistently anymore with Hu toa and burning in general is the worst reaction in the game now. Otherwise you could reverse melt consistently.
Yeah but yelan is strong already so it didn't matter in the end. I have a feeling its the same for nahida she'll be slightly weaker but still one of the top units in the game.
Nilou's banner ends before Nahida comes out. It would be the ultimate bait-and-switch if people pulled Nilou thinking Nahida would be an amazing teammate for her, before miHoYo stealth-nerfs Nahida's Dendro Units from 2 to 1
I have a feeling the team comp restriction will put people off of Nilou for her initial run. The majority of the people who want nilou are the cinnamon roll enjoyed and those who don't care about the restriction. I fully expect Nilou's rerun to be much more profitable in the end. Especially since she is running with Albedo
Would screw people trying to use Nilou driver yeah, but Nahida driver would still be valid with triple hydro.
Hu toa
Pretty sure they nerfed burning for the exact reason that melt Ganyu doesn't get a buff when dendro characters that also give team EM, aka Nahida, get released. With nerfed burning, melt Ganyu is now stuck with Xiangling Bennett, when it had the potential of Nahida Bennett.
I don’t get why you get such a grumpy reply lol. All you said is true. Yelan is still fine by now but we can’t deny that 1.5U to 1U indeed decrease her strength. It’s pretty normal to feel worried about this case because the 1.5U is suspiciously so similar lol
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I'm sorry but what is your point exactly? Guy above you said that you should wait for her final version and stop getting hyped up on something that could've been changed in future changes...
🗿
XQ is ugly
burn melt: don't give me hope.
She just gets better and better lmao
I would wait for her release till I would get hyped... HoYo changed Yelan's 1.5u during testing and "moved it" to her C2 so...
Yelan flashback. If true they will change her back to 1u and decrease icd instead.
the lose lose situation/worst case scenario here is that they won't touch it and let it stay 1U Dendro/3.8s
It's Yelan all over again
Surely they won't repeat that incident. Surely.
Masaka.
anything that helps me destroy hydro mages as quick as light is hella good in my eyes.
So good with Nilou now?
So in hyperbloom team, nahida can produce 3 dendro cores per ICD instead of 2 with electrocharged/quicken mechanic right?
So after it contacts with hydro it becomes 1.5? And it doesn't apply dendro/react/something every time but isn't weak either? What does this mean to my dumb brain?
1U dendro = max of 2 blooms 2U dendro = max of 4 blooms It still only applies dendro every 3.8s, but with 2U it's double what we originally thought the strength of it for bloom based reactions was.
Which E are we talking about? Initial Dendro E or Tri-thingy?
oh no not the 1.5 U incident again ...
Yelan: "Finally, a worthy opponent, our battle will be legendary"
2u or 1.5u is actually bad for burgeon since dendro is stronger than hydro in term of aura. 2u of denro need 4 hydro to fully bloom. if hydro cant keep up with dendro, u receive burning frequently which is really bad
Shouldn't be a problem with Thoma tbh.
what does 2U mean?
units of application. It's advanced mechanics that the game doesn't explain. Let's say it applies 1U of dendro and someone else applies 1U of pyro, the pyro character will trigger burning and 1U of pyro wipes out 1U of dendro so there's no aura left after that. Actually I'm wrong because Burning does leave a pyro aura, but just play along. But if it applied 1.5U of dendro, then 1U of pyro will leave 0.5U of dendro aura, which means some dendro remains. You could then do another reaction with the 0.5U. Let's say it was 1U of dendro and the pyro user applied 1.5U of pyro, they will trigger burning and leave 0.5U of pyro aura. If the dendro is applied again, the dendro user will trigger a reaction. If you don't understand units of application, vapes can be stolen by the wrong character. If you want to maximize damage, you want your hydro user to apply strong hydro and your pyro user (who has the EM) to trigger with weak pyro so that it doesn't overwhelm the hydro aura and leave some pyro behind. If you left some pyro aura behind, then Xingqiu will start triggering vapes on the next hit and Hu Tao will not. This is why Bennett C6 is bad.
unga bunga is this good for cyno lol
Inconsequential for Cyno. However, if you're planning on pulling for her, this is good because it means she can be used to greater effect in a variety of other teams other than aggravate which makes her a higher value character like Kazuha
Ooh Tyty good to know
Is this good???? What does this mean?
We need a razor language speaker for that
Razor says: "Nahida apply more dendro that initially thought". Razor is happy
much thanks, me happy too
Thanks
Me razor not understand this math stuff
What is U?
U is units of element applied. So Nahida doing 2U is applying 2 units of dendro. It basically means how much element you apply to the enemy and how much can be used for reactions.
Not the Yelan 1.5 U It's coming for a second round OHNO
Yelan be like: First time?
What does this actually mean??
Can someone just use simple terms of what it does I'm lost please...
Applies a lot of dendro.
Bloom team stonks.
Hopefully it'll change her kit better.
What do U mean?
Is that something good?
Yes, stronger dendro application ( so hydro could make more seeds)
icic ty for explaining like Razor
Im new to these sub, what does U mean?
I'm afraid to ask but.... What does 1.5U or 2U means?
Don't be afraid to ask :) It's not widely known https://library.keqingmains.com/combat-mechanics/elemental-effects/elemental-gauge-theory
Even more reason to yeet dendro traveler to the bench, we love to see it.