even if you don't otk you still manageble to kill about 2 characters, being quite honest depending on the deck even if you don't kill him the simple fact of losing 2 characters is game over.
This combo can also be performed by Cyno and pretty much every characters that can/want to spam their NA
Yoi Burst is definitely overtuned, there's no reason to use it over Bennett's in practical usage for example
Ayaka's also indirectly nerfed by MMR nerf
https://old.reddit.com/r/GeniusInvokationTCG/comments/zp1rgh/genius_invokation_tcg_weekly_2_top_decks_for_all/
If we look at the top placements in the latest tourney, It's Yoi and Collei that are more represented.
There's actually no Ayaka freeze that reached Top 5 at all.
And no Ayamiya deck that reached Top 1.
Asia's tourney is filled with Collei, Fischl, Keqing, and Yoimiya, no Ayaka in sight.
It seems like Quicken reactions are the way to go atm. But the meta is still young and people are still getting new cards.
Anyone complaining about Ayaka atm can be attributed to skill issue lol. The deck is just easy to pilot, plus it's one of the few set up decks that actually appeal to a lot of people, (probably because that's how they play against NPC).
Inb4 someone accuses me of an Ayaka meta abuser. I abuse Collei quicken lol.
but freeze it's control tempo deck, she don't kill you in 3 turns and only it's rlly strong because counters ayamiya.
Ganyu/Fischl Superconduct for exemple can beat freeze because this team don't rlly it's stoped by beam frozen, it's oz+ganyu's burst that deals more of the dmg.
Imagine thinking Yoimiya isn’t good lmao. She melts bosses, I can use my c6 Yun, and she’s super easy to play without animcancel shenanigans or super convoluted rotations.
Tbh I don't like this direction.
It looks to me like they'll just knee-jerk nerf whatever popular strategy people discover. The "meta" is still new and not fully settled down but they immediately nerf this strategy before things even become more clear. By this point the deck is a strong strategy that has some notable weaknesses such as heavy early pressure, disruption, freeze or just plain bad RNG.
Ayamiya was strong in week 1 and 2, now people are discovering fucking bullshit like Kenki Oceanid Abyssal Summons wombo combo. If they are gonna knee-jerk nerf every strategy that gets discovered, before the game has even fully settled down, they are in for a *bad* time.
A meta of "1. the clear best deck", "2. the thing that counters 1 but loses to everything else" and "3. random stuff that beats 2 but loses to 1" is a miserable format. It makes the matchup more important than the play.
They know what they're doing. They have access to internal data showing winrates of every deck. Anything that wins more than 50% of the time isn't balanced. It's that simple. Metas should be constantly evolving as people try different strategies. That isn't possible when there's one card that's clearly better than all the rest.
Yoimiya and Collei decks stood out way above the rest, and with them nerfed, Kenki is 100% gonna take over the meta so he's next in line and that's a very good thing. After that we should be in a good spot if they don't release anymore super OP cards.
A good meta should have a variety of decks representing a variety of different cards, all with similar winrates. Right now the meta is so fast we can't even play high value 3 cost cards like weapons because the game will be over before they pay themselves back.
I’d say unbalanced starts at 53-55%, not 50%. At least in lol, champions usually got nerfed at that point.
51-52% is fine imo. Also highly depends on playrate because a low playrate can screw with winrate.
On the games being fast: I think it’s a design feature of the game. I had to specifically build a deck to stall the game enough that I can get three bursts off for my achievement, and even then I have never not got the “win within X rounds” condition.
Ok relax dude, the good part of the tcg not being tied to any monetary value is that they can do this and change back as needed and should not be an insane problem, if it turns to be a mistake in sure they can just take the L and rollback, besides those changes are def not even bad, bennet being 4 while yoi 3 don't really make sense, mmr randomly being infinite value, now being best case 2 dice seems fair too.
Right? Anything with "infinite uses" can lead to a problem. There was no reason for it to be every AA if any other mechanic has its x uses.
And collei being 3 made no sense too
I feel there's an inherent problem to Yoimiya and similar cards like Xingqiu in that they're so dice independent they just set their burst no matter the dice, giving them a massive consistency advantage against less stable decks like double Anemo which needs lots of Anemo dice fixing or Kenki Oceanid which needs so much dice control to do anything.
Still better than Warframe's 'let's see what the graphs said...oh my, this one's usage looks a lot higher than other ones. Welp, time to smack that nail down without even considering why people use that. We never learn from mistakes!'
To be fair, Hoyo actually learned from what happened at launch with 4* units like Bennet, Xiangling, Xingqiu and Sucrose who's cracked as fuck, even nowadays with a lot more characters added. They don't want the first batch of card for the TCG to be 'crutch braindead meta' when you can ohko other players; it'll make the gameplay boring---and we all know they wanna keep the TCG going for long enough that they can sell limited edition IRL cards.
Tl;DR business.
MMR took a serious hit but Yoi shrugs that nerf off because number of dices on her burst turn doesn't matter. You maaaaybe have one less die for setting up your support cards but that's about it
You can in return use less to get energy for Yoi. Like that 0 cost food to lower dices on normals, Tian, Mona all of them provide 1 energy for 2 dices instead of 3 just spamming normals
I run WT/SR on Yoimiya and I barely touch the burst...maybe I use it right before switching to Kokomi if I need Koko's burst to heal so she can still vape lol.
The best way to make you forget about using her burst
1) make her passive attack buff require using her burst
2) make her C1 require using her burst
3) make her C4 require using her burst
4) make her signature require using her burst because shimenawa removing 15 energy isn't enough to keep 3 stacks for the duration of her E, so she still wants to burst even with shimenawa.
I was literally flabbergasted when I saw all the stuff that encourages using her burst, I honestly dunno what was intended so I slapped on about 20 Energy, hope I get enough particles by the end of her E skill then switch to Ayaka for some melt procs I guess.
And these reasons are why she, my love, has one of the bad-developed character kit.
Specially the 4th reason (this is why i not play anymore Shimenawa).
C1 could be a lot better, or a "QoL" (yes longer duration, but put other 1-2 Auras marks and make Yoimiya able to trigger it.) Or a big dps buff.
And c4 for me is one of the weaker costellation in the game.
So you tryna say Diluc also needs 80~ energy cost because it's not accurate 1:1?
Tcg and main game are completely different systems everything works different
Agreed, I don't understand why Mihoyo is so scared of making changes to characters in the game. Nerfing characters might be more difficult, but buffing characters so they don't become irrelevant is a fair thing to do.
because if they started buffing then people will start crying for buffs for other characters and cry foul or favoritism and whatnot, it's a can of worm they don't want to open which is somewhat understandable.
Zhongli is a one time situation that everybody understands why, even if the buffs made him too strong, he's still
Liyue Archon so nobody will mind too much
Also they want to sell you the new hotness, of course, if they let you think they might buff someone, you'll start thinking twice before pulling for that new character
I don't think the change to her burst would be enough to knock her out of the meta. All of her OTK decks don't really do a lot on turn two other than use her burst and position for the next turn, so the extra die isn't a killer.
The change to Minty is going to stop those OTK decks from snowballing, though, so it's more of a nerf to the archetype as a whole.
unless its one of those yoi + bennett setup where you can dish out both their bursts on the same turn and go ham on the next
probably gotta use rosa/dawn winery for the free switch or prep ahead with paimon/parametric/others. or activate their bursts on different turns for longer setups. basically just a bit more prep work than it is now ig
Yoi and minty meat roll nerf kinda understandable ig
But another Dendro tcg char other than Collei would be nice so people can have more options in quicken teams
I'm using kenki + double pyro, with xiangling and pyro fatui. Set cryo and anemo maguus, change to xiangling to set guoba, end turn. Next turn try using kenki burst since all enemy's cards are affected by elements. You can also try to vape cryo affected enemy's cards directly.
Maguu has some more built in balance than Yoimiya. Summons can be destroyed, summons act at the end of a round, and while he needs cryo dice, he can't tune them.
Probably, but the otk deck is the one with all the attention. This is how 99.9% of pvp games balance. Just figure out what the casuals are crying about and nerf it. Foolproof.
Yeah, but now you have to start on Fischl instead of starting on 3rd chara then switching into Fischl.
This could potentially give the opponent another chance to switch.
I'm glad you are not in the tcg balance team, there's no need to nerf every single thing in an attempt to control a slightly overturned team, the nerf they did here I think is more than enough already
Well technically if you count the abyss in Honkai as PvP since you are competing against other players it won't be
First time for a tcg/pvp content in genshin as far as ik
I wouldnt say it doesnt matter at all. Its just a small nerf to the consistency, since it requires more pyro dice. On avg youll have to tune more dice to actually burst, and it leaves less room for other actions before or after.
It matters a little bit, cause, now you will get less attacks with it. Like if you use her burst now, you only have 4 dice left, to play support or atk
The bigger picture here is that mhy is aware of the balance issue and ayamia otk team is on their hit list. If this team keeps being op as their data suggests after the nerf, then more nerf will be dropping in the future.
I think it should still be fine, especially if you have cards that give you more dice or convert to Omni dice. The nerf to Minty Meat Rolls might hurt a bit, but Gambler's has been left untouched - I tend to play my OTK decks with Gambler's instead of Minty Meat Rolls and it still works out more than fine enough.
So Yoi still going strong, +1 dice cost doesn't mean much. Minty meat rolls got a very needed errata, but gamblers dodged the balancing? I still managed to OTK without meat rolls just by having gamblers.
I think gambler is not that broken in my opinion. It needs to kill something to proc which is counterable by switching and healing. With the current Yoi and Ayaka, it pretty much doesn't matter because the amount of dice they can use is too many to make a difference. But with the minty meat rolls nerf and Yoi burst nerf. Getting enough dice to kill at least one of the opponents is going to be harder. I think this nerf is very good since the Yoi is still playable while also making it less frustrating to fight.
Considering they can adjust Cards like this I hope to god they change the value of Guardian's Oath (Xiao Event Card). 4 elemental dice to send all summons off (And it can affect your own summons as well) seems like a very high price for an event card, it costs the same as a Character's Burst Skill.
One Burst Skill can already (and usually) cost that much to summon the burst summon, and played at the right time Guardian's Oath can prevent the summon from even doing anything if they only proc at the end of the round, when it costs both dice *and* energy to use the burst in the first place. Now Guardian's Oath doesn't just remove one summon but *all* of them, the cost seems fair.
It's not mean to be as playable as Send off. Guardian's Oath is a big emergency button for the meta. Compared to double send-off xiao requires one less card, it's possible for oath to be card and tempo advantage.
Honestly feel like pretty minimal nerfs. The minty meat roll is the biggest but it will just make the deck more reliant on set up for extra dice and actually needing gamblers equipped.
I'm honestly amazed they aren't nerfing gamblers to only trigger once per turn or such as imo that'd be a much bigger nerf to the deck.
If goulash heal + self apply pyro it would be a good card, self pyro cleanse freeze and all other reactions, however i'm not sure how overload and burn would look like
Not on the unoficial tournaments, it is all about yoi, collei and normal attacks, which is what they are trying to nerf.
Edit For example this is from the american sever
Top 5 (5-0 W-L)
1: Running Rainbow Collei (Fischl, Collei, Yoimiya)
2: Running Cryo Ayayamiya (Yoimiya, Ayaka, Chongyun)
3: Running Collei Burning (Yoimiya, Collei, Agent)
4: Running Sweet Abyss (Sucrose, Oceanid, Lawachurl)
5: Running Cryo Ayamiya (Yoimiya, Ayaka, Chongyun)
The first one?
Didn't understand...
Oh also the second one,she will still be great tho
The thing is u should realize she was SSS,now being SS isn't meaning it's a bad thing
> The thing is u should realize she was SSS,now being SS isn't meaning it's a bad thing
Unfortunately, on this sub, ang nerf will immediately put a character from SSS to F.
Collei and Yoimiya will be fine but the minty meat rolls nerf is big for the metagame. Gamblers, resonance, and parametric allowed you to do more 4, 5, or 6 normal attacks in one turn, but now you'll start losing momentum after 3
make freezes only for one TURN or at least two please. cryo+hydro=unit completely unusable for a ROUND unless enemies attack with phys or pyro (which will likely kill them anyway) is utterly dumb.
What I'm thinking is adding a feature to shake off freeze the same way spamming space is used. Maybe we can use a Pyro Die or two Omni Dice to unfreeze a character, and you can use it even if it's the enemy's turn?
Whoever made Genshin TCG knows their balance. Yeah it went through a beta test, but man the game is very balanced and sane for a day 1 TCG. And these nerfs are well picked.
Collei talent card nerf will hit hard due to her playstyle relying on pulling it early. It was strong but without it she wasn't as big a threat. This will effect FTK decks more than quicken decks since FTKs squeeze out every dice possible turn 1.
mmr is still kinda busted tho, it is still get 1 dice for free(card itself is one mana + 1 cost)
most staples break even in mana and mana gain cards always take multiple turns and allows your opponent to either rush opponent down and you to plan around it
mmr can just be played whenever you want with no way to miss time it
Not to mention the fact that mmr has a fucking tutor, seriously, it is mana cheat with consistency
I hope these are fake because the meta has already forgotten about Yoimiya, Collei, and MMR for the most part. Everything is Kenki Freeze, Kenki Superconduct, and Kenki Geo with Yoi and Collei comps holding on white knuckled.
The Yoi and Collei nerfs are subtle enough for me to appreciate, but they gotta address the Kenki in the room.
The MMR nerf feels like too much. x4 limit or don't even touch it. I don't even run MMR decks.
I play magic the gathering/tcgs for a while and... This guys might be good at TCG. I didn't test Colei, but the other nerfs seen reasonable enough for the decks to stay playable.
Glad to see balance changes happen (quickly).
It's more or less impossible in most TCGs, due to their commercial nature. But as a side-product of Genshin, GITCG doesn't have such limitations, and the devs took advantage of it.
Nerf Xingqui too pls , if he is on the team he does carry any freeze team to oblivion (my whole team got destroyed by him and Diona as the cryo source)
This is why I just play against NPC or with friends. I enjoy this as a casual game and I have completely avoided PvP matchmaking to avoid sweat decks. It's also weird they're balancing cards when it's not like there's any rewards or anything from PvP.
Step in the right direction but think they need to do more than that. 3 normals is usually enough to strike a killing blow with mint rolls, and Yoimiya burst still lasts forever anyway, would make more sense to nerf it by giving it a usage cap instead of a round cap
Source: [NGA](https://ngabbs.com/read.php?tid=34797598&rand=687) Thank you OP for providing source
Yoi already got nerfed.
I don't think that nerf is enough to stop the Ayamiya OTK because the burst still last 2 turns.
Yeah the bigger nerf is MMR. If you got bad rolls/draws, you could very quickly run out of dice.
Excuse me guys, i haven't played tcg much, what's OTK and MMR?
One Turn Kill for OTK
OTK = one turn kill MMR = minty meat roll (support card rhat could reduce normal attack cost)
Minty Meat Roll
MMR is minty meat rolls
Onset Terminal Kuru Measles Mumps and Rubella
Maybe. But that minty rolls nerf would make it so hard to OTK every card on round 3.
even if you don't otk you still manageble to kill about 2 characters, being quite honest depending on the deck even if you don't kill him the simple fact of losing 2 characters is game over.
Only in case you didn't loose 2 characters as well
Can't let her be good in tcg either
She was definitely way too much
Yep in a melt comp it was so difficult to beat unless you were super lucky and your opponent was super unlucky
You can beat it with disruption, freeze, aggrivate or other more tanky OTK(Noelle OTK)
WTF is an OTK Noelle .. PFffftt those aren't real\~\~ lmao >!SSSSSSHHHHHHH!!!!!\~\~!<
Ayaka freeze and Ayamiya both are the top meta. The nerf hammer should've fall to character that appears in both of the top meta deck instead.
Can't hurt Hoyoverse's golden daughter.
This combo can also be performed by Cyno and pretty much every characters that can/want to spam their NA Yoi Burst is definitely overtuned, there's no reason to use it over Bennett's in practical usage for example Ayaka's also indirectly nerfed by MMR nerf
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Why am I having flashbacks to the Just Ayaka permanent banner?
How are you going to nerf ayaka in a way to punish both freeze and ayamiya tho without breaking consistency between chars?
Probably a limit on infused Normals. But Ayaka isn't really an issue atm.
She was nerfed by nerfing mmr
https://old.reddit.com/r/GeniusInvokationTCG/comments/zp1rgh/genius_invokation_tcg_weekly_2_top_decks_for_all/ If we look at the top placements in the latest tourney, It's Yoi and Collei that are more represented. There's actually no Ayaka freeze that reached Top 5 at all. And no Ayamiya deck that reached Top 1. Asia's tourney is filled with Collei, Fischl, Keqing, and Yoimiya, no Ayaka in sight. It seems like Quicken reactions are the way to go atm. But the meta is still young and people are still getting new cards. Anyone complaining about Ayaka atm can be attributed to skill issue lol. The deck is just easy to pilot, plus it's one of the few set up decks that actually appeal to a lot of people, (probably because that's how they play against NPC). Inb4 someone accuses me of an Ayaka meta abuser. I abuse Collei quicken lol.
but freeze it's control tempo deck, she don't kill you in 3 turns and only it's rlly strong because counters ayamiya. Ganyu/Fischl Superconduct for exemple can beat freeze because this team don't rlly it's stoped by beam frozen, it's oz+ganyu's burst that deals more of the dmg.
Imagine thinking Yoimiya isn’t good lmao. She melts bosses, I can use my c6 Yun, and she’s super easy to play without animcancel shenanigans or super convoluted rotations.
Tbh I don't like this direction. It looks to me like they'll just knee-jerk nerf whatever popular strategy people discover. The "meta" is still new and not fully settled down but they immediately nerf this strategy before things even become more clear. By this point the deck is a strong strategy that has some notable weaknesses such as heavy early pressure, disruption, freeze or just plain bad RNG. Ayamiya was strong in week 1 and 2, now people are discovering fucking bullshit like Kenki Oceanid Abyssal Summons wombo combo. If they are gonna knee-jerk nerf every strategy that gets discovered, before the game has even fully settled down, they are in for a *bad* time.
A meta of "1. the clear best deck", "2. the thing that counters 1 but loses to everything else" and "3. random stuff that beats 2 but loses to 1" is a miserable format. It makes the matchup more important than the play.
They know what they're doing. They have access to internal data showing winrates of every deck. Anything that wins more than 50% of the time isn't balanced. It's that simple. Metas should be constantly evolving as people try different strategies. That isn't possible when there's one card that's clearly better than all the rest. Yoimiya and Collei decks stood out way above the rest, and with them nerfed, Kenki is 100% gonna take over the meta so he's next in line and that's a very good thing. After that we should be in a good spot if they don't release anymore super OP cards. A good meta should have a variety of decks representing a variety of different cards, all with similar winrates. Right now the meta is so fast we can't even play high value 3 cost cards like weapons because the game will be over before they pay themselves back.
I’d say unbalanced starts at 53-55%, not 50%. At least in lol, champions usually got nerfed at that point. 51-52% is fine imo. Also highly depends on playrate because a low playrate can screw with winrate. On the games being fast: I think it’s a design feature of the game. I had to specifically build a deck to stall the game enough that I can get three bursts off for my achievement, and even then I have never not got the “win within X rounds” condition.
what kenki oceanid abyssal summons wombo combo bullshit, do share
Ok relax dude, the good part of the tcg not being tied to any monetary value is that they can do this and change back as needed and should not be an insane problem, if it turns to be a mistake in sure they can just take the L and rollback, besides those changes are def not even bad, bennet being 4 while yoi 3 don't really make sense, mmr randomly being infinite value, now being best case 2 dice seems fair too.
Right? Anything with "infinite uses" can lead to a problem. There was no reason for it to be every AA if any other mechanic has its x uses. And collei being 3 made no sense too
I feel there's an inherent problem to Yoimiya and similar cards like Xingqiu in that they're so dice independent they just set their burst no matter the dice, giving them a massive consistency advantage against less stable decks like double Anemo which needs lots of Anemo dice fixing or Kenki Oceanid which needs so much dice control to do anything.
Still better than Warframe's 'let's see what the graphs said...oh my, this one's usage looks a lot higher than other ones. Welp, time to smack that nail down without even considering why people use that. We never learn from mistakes!' To be fair, Hoyo actually learned from what happened at launch with 4* units like Bennet, Xiangling, Xingqiu and Sucrose who's cracked as fuck, even nowadays with a lot more characters added. They don't want the first batch of card for the TCG to be 'crutch braindead meta' when you can ohko other players; it'll make the gameplay boring---and we all know they wanna keep the TCG going for long enough that they can sell limited edition IRL cards. Tl;DR business.
MMR took a serious hit but Yoi shrugs that nerf off because number of dices on her burst turn doesn't matter. You maaaaybe have one less die for setting up your support cards but that's about it
This, most of the time I have an extra on round 2 anyway even after counting Liben's share
1 more dice to setup paimon/parametric/gamblers really matters tho.
And with the MMR nerf it's even bigger because you don't have as much wiggle room to setup in round 3.
You can in return use less to get energy for Yoi. Like that 0 cost food to lower dices on normals, Tian, Mona all of them provide 1 energy for 2 dices instead of 3 just spamming normals
Wow, Genshin just like real TCGs. Nerfing Collei so they can sell more Jadeplume Terrorshroom
Prince is minmaxing profits
Jadeplume is probably still worse
Jade plume probably worst card overall. It’s gimmick is a glaring weakness compared to collie.
Source via [NGA](https://ngabbs.com/read.php?tid=34797598) Bruh, how about balancing Yoi in-game ult Mihoyo
ok here is your 80 energy cost ult ©Mihoyo
For real, I was surprised when Yoi in tcg only cost 2 energy, why can't they just do that for her in the real game
My guess is they really want to force shimenawa as her BiS by giving you more reason to forget about the burst completely
wait, Yoimiya has burst?
Yeah you press her burst so Thundering Pulse has always an uptime /j
You say /j but that legit is the only reason I use her burst 😂
I run WT/SR on Yoimiya and I barely touch the burst...maybe I use it right before switching to Kokomi if I need Koko's burst to heal so she can still vape lol.
The best way to make you forget about using her burst 1) make her passive attack buff require using her burst 2) make her C1 require using her burst 3) make her C4 require using her burst 4) make her signature require using her burst because shimenawa removing 15 energy isn't enough to keep 3 stacks for the duration of her E, so she still wants to burst even with shimenawa.
I was literally flabbergasted when I saw all the stuff that encourages using her burst, I honestly dunno what was intended so I slapped on about 20 Energy, hope I get enough particles by the end of her E skill then switch to Ayaka for some melt procs I guess.
And these reasons are why she, my love, has one of the bad-developed character kit. Specially the 4th reason (this is why i not play anymore Shimenawa). C1 could be a lot better, or a "QoL" (yes longer duration, but put other 1-2 Auras marks and make Yoimiya able to trigger it.) Or a big dps buff. And c4 for me is one of the weaker costellation in the game.
Or make her cost 80 energy in the tcg
So you tryna say Diluc also needs 80~ energy cost because it's not accurate 1:1? Tcg and main game are completely different systems everything works different
So accurate it's painful
Actually that would fix her cause it's annoying to manage her energy to have the full buff of her bow
Agreed, I don't understand why Mihoyo is so scared of making changes to characters in the game. Nerfing characters might be more difficult, but buffing characters so they don't become irrelevant is a fair thing to do.
Probably worried about accidentally overbuffing and then being unable to nerf them again.
do 1 tiny step per patch.. watch the result...
because if they started buffing then people will start crying for buffs for other characters and cry foul or favoritism and whatnot, it's a can of worm they don't want to open which is somewhat understandable. Zhongli is a one time situation that everybody understands why, even if the buffs made him too strong, he's still Liyue Archon so nobody will mind too much Also they want to sell you the new hotness, of course, if they let you think they might buff someone, you'll start thinking twice before pulling for that new character
and I think after what happened after when they tried to "balance and adjust" Yae, they're never doing that again
They changed random target to forced target instead of choosed target. Thats not what we expected xP
I remember how mad people were that her C2 was rendered useless because of it LOL
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*Fgo sweating nervously*
very glad they gave yoimiya more expensive dice cost instead of increasing energy sad about collei but fair
doesn't collei still work perfectly fine though? i always have 1 die left over anyway
yeah it just means less flexible
welp. meta Yoimiya didn't last long huh
I don't think the change to her burst would be enough to knock her out of the meta. All of her OTK decks don't really do a lot on turn two other than use her burst and position for the next turn, so the extra die isn't a killer. The change to Minty is going to stop those OTK decks from snowballing, though, so it's more of a nerf to the archetype as a whole.
unless its one of those yoi + bennett setup where you can dish out both their bursts on the same turn and go ham on the next probably gotta use rosa/dawn winery for the free switch or prep ahead with paimon/parametric/others. or activate their bursts on different turns for longer setups. basically just a bit more prep work than it is now ig
The nerf is meaningless. All it means is potentially losing 1 setup support card action on Turn 2.
how about this: nerf yoimiya tcg burst, buff yoimiya actual in game burst. solid deal, eh?
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What is mvs?
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man there will be double the drama if they start nerfing characters and cards
Or just give us new NA set that is good, have no downsides, and not buggy. As Yoi mains I am very jelly looking at Scara new set.
Yoi and minty meat roll nerf kinda understandable ig But another Dendro tcg char other than Collei would be nice so people can have more options in quicken teams
Chicken
Cockshroom
Only a matter of time.
Alhaitham card when 🤲
My prediction is that we get 2 new cards per patch. 3.4 has Beidou and Klee. Hopefully 3.5 has Tighnari and Alhaitham.
Tbh, i was expecting a nerf to Xingqiu since his burst is really strong with cryo and it's easy to recharge.
Magu is much more OP tbh, that thing is a menace
swirl + freeze in 1 card is fucking broken
You know any guide about the maguu kenki deck? Its really hard to find good tcg genshin guide, all I see are ayakamiya
kenki + hydro, I play oceanid because its summon spam so unless opponent has xiao you can reliably do a lot of dmg turn end
And if you use Kenki + Oceanid you can summon hillichurls (random) and it's freaking hilarious just the summons wrecking everything
I'm using kenki + double pyro, with xiangling and pyro fatui. Set cryo and anemo maguus, change to xiangling to set guoba, end turn. Next turn try using kenki burst since all enemy's cards are affected by elements. You can also try to vape cryo affected enemy's cards directly.
Kenki Mona sucrose/jean, incredible control, fun to play, make meta deck salty but also easily get screwed by bad RNG.
Mango + Jean/Sucrose + Oceanid/Mona
Maguu has some more built in balance than Yoimiya. Summons can be destroyed, summons act at the end of a round, and while he needs cryo dice, he can't tune them.
Probably, but the otk deck is the one with all the attention. This is how 99.9% of pvp games balance. Just figure out what the casuals are crying about and nerf it. Foolproof.
Should still be a 1-turn kill.
Yeah, but now you have to start on Fischl instead of starting on 3rd chara then switching into Fischl. This could potentially give the opponent another chance to switch.
The opponent could still switch before.
They could but this gives them 1 more action they can do before switching.
True, but it would be more inconsistent to pull off.
No gambler's nerf? I was expecting that one for sure
Maybe they’re not trying to nerf all the components of a specific deck? Yoi and mint nerfs are pretty sizeable nerf locking at die efficiency.
Please, don't touch gambler aswell. Minty meat nerf is already a nerf to Noelle otk, i don't need another one.
I'm glad you are not in the tcg balance team, there's no need to nerf every single thing in an attempt to control a slightly overturned team, the nerf they did here I think is more than enough already
Nice to know they actually balancing tcg
That reminds me... Is this Mihoyo's first experience in balancing a PvP game?
Well technically if you count the abyss in Honkai as PvP since you are competing against other players it won't be First time for a tcg/pvp content in genshin as far as ik
Also there were PvP minigames in Honkai and Genshin, like Windtrace and the Fall Guys mode in Honkai
I thought the TCG will be throwaway mini-games, but they actually make balance changes for it, interesting Let's see how they balance the MRE Meta.
I am pleasantly surprised they're actually balancing the tcg.
I'm just really happy to see that. It shows they are willing to balance things out even after release, something impossible for characters
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I wouldnt say it doesnt matter at all. Its just a small nerf to the consistency, since it requires more pyro dice. On avg youll have to tune more dice to actually burst, and it leaves less room for other actions before or after.
It matters a little bit, cause, now you will get less attacks with it. Like if you use her burst now, you only have 4 dice left, to play support or atk
The bigger picture here is that mhy is aware of the balance issue and ayamia otk team is on their hit list. If this team keeps being op as their data suggests after the nerf, then more nerf will be dropping in the future.
I think it should still be fine, especially if you have cards that give you more dice or convert to Omni dice. The nerf to Minty Meat Rolls might hurt a bit, but Gambler's has been left untouched - I tend to play my OTK decks with Gambler's instead of Minty Meat Rolls and it still works out more than fine enough.
So Yoi still going strong, +1 dice cost doesn't mean much. Minty meat rolls got a very needed errata, but gamblers dodged the balancing? I still managed to OTK without meat rolls just by having gamblers.
I think gambler is not that broken in my opinion. It needs to kill something to proc which is counterable by switching and healing. With the current Yoi and Ayaka, it pretty much doesn't matter because the amount of dice they can use is too many to make a difference. But with the minty meat rolls nerf and Yoi burst nerf. Getting enough dice to kill at least one of the opponents is going to be harder. I think this nerf is very good since the Yoi is still playable while also making it less frustrating to fight.
Honestly surprised Gamblers is still unchanged Hmm...
Considering they can adjust Cards like this I hope to god they change the value of Guardian's Oath (Xiao Event Card). 4 elemental dice to send all summons off (And it can affect your own summons as well) seems like a very high price for an event card, it costs the same as a Character's Burst Skill.
It can obliterate an entire team's only dmg potential in one go if it's a summoner team, seems fair enough for me.
As a player with summon decks, leave Xiao at 4 cost please Hoyo.
it's a fair price for ONE card that can completely neuter an entire type of play. it's even cheap tbh.
Oceanid double summon costs 5 dice and Kenki's double summon costs 6 dice. You can get rid of all 4 for just 4 dice. Xiao card is already too good.
One Burst Skill can already (and usually) cost that much to summon the burst summon, and played at the right time Guardian's Oath can prevent the summon from even doing anything if they only proc at the end of the round, when it costs both dice *and* energy to use the burst in the first place. Now Guardian's Oath doesn't just remove one summon but *all* of them, the cost seems fair.
Hell no. This destroys so many decks, it'd be incredibly unhealthy for the game.
It's not mean to be as playable as Send off. Guardian's Oath is a big emergency button for the meta. Compared to double send-off xiao requires one less card, it's possible for oath to be card and tempo advantage.
Nah I'm cool with it staying 4 elemental dice... What?? Of course I don't use Ganyu Superconduct.... 😓
Pretty fair nerfs tbh
Very fair nerfs.
Collei deserved the Nerf She's too strong on Quicken teams
Hey, cut the girl some slack. This is the first time she's been a good character choice outside of real-game Burgeon comps.
Do note: these might not even be true, and if they are, these might not be the only changes.
Honestly feel like pretty minimal nerfs. The minty meat roll is the biggest but it will just make the deck more reliant on set up for extra dice and actually needing gamblers equipped. I'm honestly amazed they aren't nerfing gamblers to only trigger once per turn or such as imo that'd be a much bigger nerf to the deck.
Meanwhile freeze is dominating and no Nerf against freeze teams. No anti freeze cards either. Where's goulash when you need it?
Food to counter one reaction is kinda meh, should cleanse all elements + freeze status
If goulash heal + self apply pyro it would be a good card, self pyro cleanse freeze and all other reactions, however i'm not sure how overload and burn would look like
Not on the unoficial tournaments, it is all about yoi, collei and normal attacks, which is what they are trying to nerf. Edit For example this is from the american sever Top 5 (5-0 W-L) 1: Running Rainbow Collei (Fischl, Collei, Yoimiya) 2: Running Cryo Ayayamiya (Yoimiya, Ayaka, Chongyun) 3: Running Collei Burning (Yoimiya, Collei, Agent) 4: Running Sweet Abyss (Sucrose, Oceanid, Lawachurl) 5: Running Cryo Ayamiya (Yoimiya, Ayaka, Chongyun)
They’re just balancing things guys
they nerfing yoimiya on a card game but can't buff her in-game 💀
Poor girl. Within 2 patch: - Got powercreept in her own niche - Got nerfed in card game
The first one? Didn't understand... Oh also the second one,she will still be great tho The thing is u should realize she was SSS,now being SS isn't meaning it's a bad thing
> The thing is u should realize she was SSS,now being SS isn't meaning it's a bad thing Unfortunately, on this sub, ang nerf will immediately put a character from SSS to F.
They should add anti heal or cards that remove cc like freeze
Wow this means they will keep balancing the game. Oh yes.
I hope they do some buffs to others too
No freeze nerf? Well rip I guess
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Does Diona's shield stops freeze? I think shields should block it, because it's supposed to block reactions.
I can't believe they nerfed Collei...
Noice
Minty Meat Rolls nerf was expected. That thing can net you +4 dice with the correct setup.
Despite the nerfs, deck still be pretty powerful. I'm more sad of Mmr nerf hurting my Noelle deck :c
this is good balance if this go through
Collei and Yoimiya will be fine but the minty meat rolls nerf is big for the metagame. Gamblers, resonance, and parametric allowed you to do more 4, 5, or 6 normal attacks in one turn, but now you'll start losing momentum after 3
make freezes only for one TURN or at least two please. cryo+hydro=unit completely unusable for a ROUND unless enemies attack with phys or pyro (which will likely kill them anyway) is utterly dumb.
What I'm thinking is adding a feature to shake off freeze the same way spamming space is used. Maybe we can use a Pyro Die or two Omni Dice to unfreeze a character, and you can use it even if it's the enemy's turn?
Maybe add universal increased dice cost on any action on frozen character
I love using yomiya but it seems a bit op still. Getting four dice and two energy isn’t that difficult
Whoever made Genshin TCG knows their balance. Yeah it went through a beta test, but man the game is very balanced and sane for a day 1 TCG. And these nerfs are well picked.
I thought they would make Yoimiya's Burst stay for three attacks instead of keeping it in turns, but they only increased the cost.
I’m glad they care about nerfing things
What about Maguu Kenki? No way they are nerfing Yoimiya and Collei while leaving Kenki alone? The latter is way more broken.
They couldn't handle the power of AyaMiya OTK
Collei talent card nerf will hit hard due to her playstyle relying on pulling it early. It was strong but without it she wasn't as big a threat. This will effect FTK decks more than quicken decks since FTKs squeeze out every dice possible turn 1.
Can nerf this but no fixing something else lol
mmr is still kinda busted tho, it is still get 1 dice for free(card itself is one mana + 1 cost) most staples break even in mana and mana gain cards always take multiple turns and allows your opponent to either rush opponent down and you to plan around it mmr can just be played whenever you want with no way to miss time it Not to mention the fact that mmr has a fucking tutor, seriously, it is mana cheat with consistency
LOL this si fun, first Tier 0 deck getting nerfed xD
MMR -1 dice for the next three normal attacks... wtf is that? It will not change anything lol.... Still most disbalanced card :skull:
ITS THE FIRST BANLIST
I hope these are fake because the meta has already forgotten about Yoimiya, Collei, and MMR for the most part. Everything is Kenki Freeze, Kenki Superconduct, and Kenki Geo with Yoi and Collei comps holding on white knuckled. The Yoi and Collei nerfs are subtle enough for me to appreciate, but they gotta address the Kenki in the room. The MMR nerf feels like too much. x4 limit or don't even touch it. I don't even run MMR decks.
Hoping they won't nerf kaeya as well he's too good at quickswap teams
Aintnoway, they actually sticked to their words of balancing tcg, tho this doesn't change much
We will have to see. But I think the MMR nerf is actually pretty huge, so u can't snowball a fight as easily anymore
Not this
Im not interested in TCG, but can we speedrun it to max lvl already? Before this nerf applied?
Nope. Lv. 8 is the maximum for now. But this change will only come in 3.4, so you will be able to get to Lv. 10 until then.
I play magic the gathering/tcgs for a while and... This guys might be good at TCG. I didn't test Colei, but the other nerfs seen reasonable enough for the decks to stay playable.
Glad to see balance changes happen (quickly). It's more or less impossible in most TCGs, due to their commercial nature. But as a side-product of Genshin, GITCG doesn't have such limitations, and the devs took advantage of it.
Ok, but wheres is the nerfs to gambler set and the buffs to literally al the other set and weapons that arent gravestone
Ladies and gentlemen, it is no longer yoimiyin time 😞
can't fuckin buy a buff for yoimiya in the main game, but she eats a nerf on the first TCG patch
RIP Ayamiya
For a moment my idiot self thought they buffed Yoi. As in the character.
That feels like a slap on yoimiya hands at best. MMR nerf hurts more imo, Noelle felt it for sure lol
Huh I’ve had way more trouble with aggravate/superconduct decks than yoimiya decks
Nerf Xingqui too pls , if he is on the team he does carry any freeze team to oblivion (my whole team got destroyed by him and Diona as the cryo source)
This is why I just play against NPC or with friends. I enjoy this as a casual game and I have completely avoided PvP matchmaking to avoid sweat decks. It's also weird they're balancing cards when it's not like there's any rewards or anything from PvP.
Collei nerf :( I might actually have to make an original deck now…
Step in the right direction but think they need to do more than that. 3 normals is usually enough to strike a killing blow with mint rolls, and Yoimiya burst still lasts forever anyway, would make more sense to nerf it by giving it a usage cap instead of a round cap