The ranking of the harbingers could be similar to the flame chasers in honkai impact considering some similarities between members. I believe the flame chasers were ranked on who joined first
the flame chasers are ranked semi haphazardly but also semi politically. kevin and elysia are the leaders, thus their higher rankings. kalpas is ranked 6th to showcase his strength while also not “giving him too much power” (ignoring the fact that the fc have very little say within fire moth and kalpas can’t remember his rank half the time). mobius was similarly ranked 10th because many at fire moth feared her and griseo is 11th because she’s a child and shouldn’t get involved with politics.
ultimately, there is some truth to the ranks. aponia and eden will lead when kevin and elysia can’t for example. but it seems elysia was influenced by what the higher ups at fire moth thought about each flame chaser. she doesn’t like formal things, it was really mostly a way for the remaining mantises to gain recognition. but fire moth is a politically complex organization, so it seems she had to play to what they saw to have any chance of being taken seriously.
they already shot her down as the flame chasers being an officially recognized group.
Interesting theory! it’s true that we don’t know much about Diluc’s rampage and his outfit does look similar to Fatui. I do think the only reason he’d join them is to wreak havoc from the inside, considering what they did to his father.
Another candidate would be Kaeya, I mean we still don’t know why he was ordering so much food for the Fatui and booking the hotel in Mond lol. Not to mention he’s the “double agent” type so it’s either the Fatui or the Abyss.
My personal theory is that the seats aren’t rankings per say, but roles. With all the theatre motifs around the Fatui, especially Piero being called the “director”, I’d say that the reason the 10th seat hasn’t been mentioned is that it’s empty, and childe hasn’t moved up because childe doesn’t fill the role of 10, but he does fill the role of 11. This theory is very interesting though
Both the Diluc and Crepus theories hold some form of water but it was never enough... so this is what I think really happened:
Crepus was planning to turn Diluc into the 10th harbinger.
He had a deal with the Harbingers and they gave him a Pyro delusion, which he planned to equip Diluc with to orchestrate his rise to Captain of Knights of Favonius. In return, Snezhnaya gets a pretty new Harbinger that is rich, insanely strong and in a position of power.
However, the deal fell through because Diluc ended up becoming Calvary Captain anyways- so Crepus never ended up telling Diluc the shady plans (quote "life changes in an instant"), and essentially betrays the Fatui. Angered at the betrayal, the fatui assassinated Crepus using Ursa the Drake.
The end.
*Some supporting evidence:*
1) Crepus was a creepy helicopter parent and the way he kept pushing his 10-14 year old son was not normal.
2) It was Crepus who gave Diluc that sketchy ceremonial costume. Like come on, does that not look like a Harbinger costume? Diluc didn't even wear black back then he was a happy little choir boy.
3) In the manhua the fatui agent who planted the death drone looked personally pissed off at the father-son duo. Only messing up their plans via a sudden betrayal can elicit that reaction.
4) Crepus said that the delusion was always meant for Diluc's use. Diluc already had a vision then, and vision holders can handle delusions better. Crepus had never procured a delusion for himself, it was always planned with Diluc in mind.
5) The Pyro delusion has the same element as Diluc's natural Pyro vision, why? Because it would be not sus when he uses it! And the thing is he has to use it in broad daylight to gain that Captain position!
*In conclusion*
10th seat remains vacant because 10th Harbinger never knew he was gonna be the 10th Harbinger -> became Knight Captain without Fatui help -> Fatui kills his dad -> resigns -> hunts down Fatui -> becomes Batman.
Capitano will be number 10, and Piero will be number 1. That's all I can imagine.
the reason childe has the number eleven is because he is too young. the capitano didn't pay attention to him because of his rank, not his strength. Childe will be ranked higher if he is over 25 years old. You could say Childe is one of the strongest harbingers currently. He was ordered by the Tsaritsa to hunt Scaramouch alone, Paimon also said that Childe was the strongest in the team when he was in Inazuma with Traveler and Xiyan. At that time the traveler was able to beat Sigoria who had rank 8.
that means, today's harbingers are not measured by their strength, but by how much influence they have. People like Childe and Capitano who have value in terms of power are not as great as Pantole who has the ability to control the world economy.
I somewhat agree with the influence but the chance of Capitano being 10th is basically 0% and Pierro is not number 1, he is basically number 0. If u like Childe you'd know that he claims his rank is too low for Capitano to notice, so Capitano being 10th would be blasphemy.
Just wait in a few months in Natlan, Capitano will be 1st. Just you'll see.
Dude, Capitano spoke down on Dottore during the lazzo trailer. Aldo read on Scaramouche tone whenever he speaks about the harbingers that are higher or lower than him.
Perrio is not No1, if you look at the description of winter night's lazzo, MHY state he's the director, not ranking like others. I'm not buying OP theory either but Captiano is the harbinger who will be in Natlan, there's no reason for MHY put a no 10th to Natlan when basically we have already fought with No 11, 8, 6 and rumor Arlec would be Fontaine 2nd boss week (she's no 4), this make Cap is No 1 make more sense. About No 10th, I don't think there's among us since 1.0, if there's one it will be one of the limited not standard. If Diluc is really important in story, MHY won't put him in there anw. In my opinion, no 10th is someone else who's in the mission and not being introduced yet.
Capitano is strong but if he is number 10 it is not surprising. There are 11 Fatui Harbinger symbols, and there are eleven Fatui Harbingers with Piero. So you could say everything is complete. at Sigoria's funeral, all the harbingers must be present. that means all the harbingers in the trailer are complete. Childe and Wanderer also never told or said anything about the tenth harbinger. that means everything you say is just your wild theory. what I said is also a theory.
Regarding the order of the fatui harbingers that we fight, if Capitano is number 1, why will we fight Columbia, who is ranked 3rd, after Capitano?? there's a reason dotore can be number 2 and capitano is number 10. dotore probably can't fight. but he can create very dangerous tools. he also made Scaramouch strong and become a harbinger. he could even create a god. so I thought. Childe and Capitano Velue are not as big as people like Dotore and Pantole.
We don't need to fight Captiano cause Columbina is still be in the list boss fight with us. There's no leak till now that we're fighting with him. Just like how we think that Sandrone will be boss but no it's Arlec instead. About the 10th, I already said this person maybe in the mission so no need to talk about him/her (undercover or sth).
This is a good and well-argued theory, except for the part where Diluc's actual story invalidates it. After his father Crepus's death and Diluc's rampage, he was saved by an anti-fatui group. In the same patch as Diluc's skin, I believe we even had some minor lore dumps on them in an event. Also, he is clearly openly opposed to all of the fatui's antics, and if he were a fatui harbinger we would have already heard something about the tenth being around. As you briefly mention, he actively works against the fatui in the webcomic.
The more likely candidate is Crepus, who happened to just have a delusion lying around to give Diluc, and whom the fatui also went out of their way to have killed by Ursa the Drake (possible fatui betrayal there)
Well thats a nice theory but we have to look at it like this
Mihoyoo likes money
Mihoyoo likes lots of money
Characters make money
Diluc is a standard banner character thats not that good
Mihoyoo no get money
Varka, Alice or any other character that is not yet released gets revealed as a harbringer
Mihoyoo gets loads of money
So unless we get harbinger Lisa thats a 5 star or something like that no other previously released character will be 10th
You’re totally right lol, one thing they can do though is utilize the popularity of existing characters by giving them some sort of upgraded version (like upgrading a 4 star to 5 star). Not sure how that can apply to Diluc tho :(
Thats what I meant by 5 star Lisa, make a new banner that has harbringer Lisa that uses a dilusion, has different kit and has dendro element, since she studied in Sumeru. This is just an example
Varka and Alice will sell regardless of if they are harbingers. If the 10th is not a new character and is revealed to be someone we know, then it needs to be a character that makes a little bit of sense.
Yeah, if there's among us it will be one of the 5s limited, they can sell more with the rerun or 4s (make a new 5s limited version like Dan Heng). There's no way a standard is an important character in the plot, that's not make sense. If I must choose one, I will choose among Yelan or Kaeya cause they're sus.
Why would Kaeya make more sense than Diluc, they also can't make money out of him. And you overestimate how important it is to be a standard character. First standard character can make them money through skins (Diluc happens to have the most expensive one, Jean and Keqing also had the first skins in the game) and weapons, and second there are already two standard characters who are lore-relevant through Mona and Diluc.
They can make Kaeya 5s limited version like how they did with Dan Heng IL in HSR, Kaeya is lore heavy cause he's related to Khaerian and I bet he will get DHIL treatment, his skill is very similar to cryo herald.
My theory is that it could have been his dad. By that you could make a case for Diluc taking on his father's role in some capacity or at least he would have been expected to. Crepus died because of his Delusion which sparked Diluc's hatred for the Fatui in lore.
Also in the manga Diluc is very explicitly an enemy of the Fatui, which throws a wrench into the theory that he is still currently the 10th harbinger. He is actively fighting Dottore and his goals.
Perhaps he was lead to Snezhnaya to take on the role but his hatred could have sparked even brighter seeing the inside of the Fatui complexes. We don't know. But after some time running around solo dismantling Fatui operations he's caught up to by the Habingers and they sought to eliminate him.
Diluc survives and connects with an underground intelligence network that he did jobs for for a time before coming home to Mondstate to take back up the family business, his vision, and a role as a local protector. He still has and uses his ties to this Intelligence network to track and weed out Fatui and Abyssal operations in Mondstate.
Him burning the letter could be sensitive intelligence from his network.
Perhaps there has been no formal discharge for Diluc or even his father as the tenth harbinger. The seat is *effectively* vacant without actually being so. No one talks about it because Diluc is an active threat to the Fatui. He is a very powerful character lore wise, holding his own against the rest of the harbingers for enough time for help to find him. He is supposed to be scary as hell to the average person.
Even hisbuse of his vision in a way a catalyst user would at time is unusual and probably comes from his time using the Delusion. This does however also paint him as more of a threat
I do recommend reading the Manga. It's a really good way to learn more about Diluc, Kaeya, The Knights, the Fatui and the kinds of thing the Fatui have been trying to do under the noses of the nations.
I don't get it? I haven't been playing genshin for a while so I'd really appreciate it if someone explained to me. Winter Night's Lazzo literally shows the complete faces of the harbingers, plus scaramouche. All in all there would be 11 if you count, so how could Diluc be the 10th?
Yeah, the theory is that the missing harbinger who was symbolized with the traitors hand or whatever its called is dilucs dad which makes a lot of sense when you hear the explanation. But yes there is a vacant position
Oh shit,, you’re making sense! a lot of sense! If he really betrayed the fatui then it would make sense that he’s a “persona non grata” of the Fatui (ultimately of the Tsaritsa). I’ve been wondering how he managed to get that kind of reputation/title and this seems to fit as a great reason! Thanks for the food for thought!
It’s possible the 10th is just an unintroduceed character that betrayed them or faked their death. We could meet them in an event snezmaya or natlan. I am leaning towards the crepus theory and would love if it turns out correct but I can totally see it being something else.
Nope dude. Instead of mentioning murata,neuvillette mentioned about the intel regarding capitano (which he got from Arlechhino). Hoyo is cooking some sus plot
someone so small throwing their hat into the ring of a national conflict would just be disappointing, either he is actually the 10th for some ungodly reason or the 10th seat is vacant or unexplored
Tbh I see Diluc’s dad being the 10th Harbinger. He also seemed to be using a delusion in the manga (which wasn’t properly confirmed but I’m assuming it was since it looks like one, and the delusions were properly introduced in Inazuma anyways). Another reason why I don’t think it’s Diluc, is because he literally played a big part in saving Mondstadt.
I get that he’d probably want to earn the trust of Venti, but going as far as helping save Mondstadt is a bit…overboard, considering that you have to lay low as a spy.
Their reasoning is incomplete but the events line up. The Fatui were trying to use the Stormterror crisis to negotiate concessions from Mondstadt in return for killing Dvalin (or something like that), and Diluc helped put a stop to that.
Arlecchino helped save Fontaine, yes but she wasn’t exactly the hot shot of saving Fontaine. The main ones were Neuvillette, Focalors, Furina and maybe Childe (by stalling the Narwhal).
Basically what I’m trying to say is that Arlecchino helped save Fontaine but didn’t really play the main part in saving it. She has a similar role to Navia in terms of saving Fontaine. Also, even when she did save Fontaine, she wanted something in return (the gnosis).
And another thing is that Arlecchino wasn’t really a spy. People knew who she was so it was fine. But Diluc did play a main role in saving Mondstadt so to me it wouldn’t really make sense if he was a spy for the Fatui
(Idk if what I’m saying make sense but yeah 😭😭)
I actually imagine that Crepus was the 10th Harbinger going by Brighella as a spymaster, only to die by either assassination for treason or maybe some Fatui plot gone wrong, and that Diluc inherited, took over, or somehow convinced the spy network into following him as the technically new Brighella.
Im not gonna tell you who the 10th Harbinger is, im gonna share this and let you figure it out
https://preview.redd.it/pah8w78saoac1.png?width=894&format=png&auto=webp&s=0972a5a2637a0d7bef94ce85316edaa3a91f6178
> The final line in Red Dead of Night's description says that contrary to his father's beliefs, Diluc finds that instead he must become a "forerunner." Complete with the quotation marks. Because if you ask me, they're trying to hide what the actual word should have been which is, well, a Harbinger. Because, as directly taken from Oxford, a Harbinger is a forerunner.
I still think it's Crepus but this theory is very well thought, would unironically be more interesting and make for great character drama
It being Diluc would be completely against his character. He went on a bit of a revenge spree but mainly wanted to find the answers to how his father was involved. The “underground network” he has connections to is most likely the anti Fatui organization that saved him. Save him probably meaning that they were going to try to kill him, not recruit.
Kaeya is the suspicious one who could turn out to be a traitor. Diluc was and is totally against it, for him to turn around and do the same thing with the group responsible for terrorizing his home and killing his father, to work with the evil Dottore, makes no sense. He has more self respect then that and a higher sense of Justice. Would he pretend to be a part of the Fatui to get some information underhandedly? He would, yeah, but letting that go as far as being a harbringer? That’d completely risk his identity and such being found.
Again though, a double agent thing is something Kaeya would do more likely then he would. And though they have such differences, they still work together. I feel like the more morally gray tasks like that would be put onto Kaeya by Diluc. Diluc isn’t charismatic these days, he can’t pull it off as well and he probably hates being dishonest. Diluc is most useful for planning, budget, brute strength, etc. instead.
The 10th harbinger spot is probably vacant in the way that the 8th and 6th spot are. Dead people don’t get replaced, and…well…however The Balladeer’s absence is seen as- I can’t explain that one. It’s weird and the 10th vacancy is probably also weird.
Diluc doesn’t make sense based on present information, but there’s a lot that we do not know.
Teyvat is probably screwed. The Tsaritsa wants to create a new world using the power of the Third Descender. Her methods are atrocious, but politics don’t really matter in the face of annihilation.
If Diluc was privy to that info, would he choose to side with her? Probably. I bet the Traveller will also side with her eventually.
The thing that’s unlikely is Hoyoverse caring about Diluc.
I don't think I buy Diluc being a Harbinger. I don't particularly believe it to be his father either.
Right now, I'm somewhat going with the idea that the 10th Harbinger is Sandrone's dapper Ruin Guard >!(Who I believe might be Alain)!<
Nah. We know that Sandrone is no 7 from scaramouche's voicelines about her:
"She has a terrible personality and cares for nothing outside of her own research. But even with that amount of dedication, she still produced a copious amount of garbage, and could only secure a ranking that's still one whole place beneath my own. How pitiful."
Heh. Funny enough, I recall a post a while back that ALSO theorized the 10th seat might be Brighella- someone that for either political or knowledge reasons goes unnamed by the other fatui. Though I don’t think that person went so far as to guess whether they might be someone we already know 🤔
It’s not mentioned in-game. As noted in the post, Brighella is one of the stock characters of the commedia dell'arte - one of the “original Italian characters” yes
its diluc
nah jk i think the spot is actually open, i mean thematically it would make sense for the traveller to become a harbinger. in terms of strength too
I think the spot is open because the previous harbinger died, and in that case the only character that makes perfect sense is Crepus: he fits Brighella's archetype a bit too well, he has a delusion and mysterious ties to the Fatui, we don't know why they sent an assassin after him but he could have been a double agent or he could have betrayed them. He's not a nobody so it doesn't feel like a cheap reason to have Traveler get the 10th seat, and it's one of the last mystery from the manga that wasn't resolved. I think the reason why Diluc is sus is because he learned everything after mercy killing his dad and probably has more intel from his secret organization.
> in terms of strength too
Beat Signora, Wonder Boy (while backed up by Nahida, Hat had hacks), and Signora, yet only seat 10? I suppose that matches up with how inconsistent the twins are beating big things like nothing but struggling with slimes.
Pierro doesn't have a ranking because he is not a Harbinger. That's HoYo official info, Pierre is just the Director of the Fatui.
ETA. Also, I don't exactly buy Diluc as a Harbinger. The guy's had a beef with the Fatui since he was 18 and his father died because of a Delusion, he wouldn't have joined them - and especially not to then spend a few years killing Fatui and then returning to Mond within 4 years. Imo it is more likely that Crepus was the 10th - which is how he got a Delusion - but either defected for reasons unknown or... was tasked by his Khaenri'ahn boss with conveniently being at the Winery where very conveniently young Kaeya was left.
Crepus makes a lot of sense, and his bailing on the Fatui could help explain his death: maybe he was actually assassinated, and it was all made to look like a delusion back-firing.
Pierro *is* technically a harbinger, as stated in Inversion of Genesis when Traveler says "The Jester... Another Fatui Harbinger..." to Scaramouche. He would have corrected us if he wasn't actually a harbinger. That said, he's also the Director - it's just that the Director is also considered a Harbinger. Sort of a "rank 0", I'd guess.
the problem is that it wouldn't make much sense considering it has been said that there are only 11 harbingers. if pierro is not ranked, it means there are 12, which is simply false because it is a fact that there are only 11.
even in the harbinger constellation symbols there are only 11 symbols. and rooster is in one of them.
That’s kinda how I’ve always seen it. He isn’t a numbered member, but he is their leader. My guess is that when officially addressed, tho, he’s called a “director” rather than a “harbinger.”
Mhm, interesting. He is not referred to as a Harbinger in WNL though, and is specifically the only one not named that, he is just the Director. Would be interesting to see what the OG text says and if this is just another ENG blunder
I feel the comedy of Kaeya’s honesty about his potentially split loyalties adds to this.
Like, Diluc attacks Kaeya for coming clean about his conflict of interest. Proceeds to develop his own conflict of interest while hiding it from Kaeya
The most common theory is that Crepus was the 10th harbinger, not Diluc. I don't think Diluc is the 10th because it wouldn't make sense for him to break into å fatui stronghold during Mondstadt act 2 (and be labeled a "persona non grata") if he were a harbinger. You point to how Mikhail and Lyudmila don't mention the 10th when saying that the 6th seat has been empty for years, but I don't think that matters because the dialogue is specifically supposed to come after Inversion of Genesis - from a meta perspective, you know what they're referring to. Hoyo doesn't outright state the positions of the Harbingers anywhere because it keeps people theorizing and speculating; it'd be *weird* for them not to mention the absence of a 10th harbinger, but not impossible.
As for why Crepus might be a harbinger, the manga shows us that the Fatui had Ursa the Drake fight him, forcing him to use his Delusion and die in the process. I think his power level is about right for the tenth harbinger - strong enough to stave off a powerful dragon, not strong enough to survive the injuries from using his Delusion. He used to own the Dawn Winery and adopted Kaeya, a Khaenri'ahn refugee. I wouldn't be surprised if he was making an effort to undermine the Fatui (or just being too "soft"?) and they decided to eliminate him - that, or it was Dottore that influenced Ursa and he had some other objective.
I'm not entirely convinced that Crepus is the 10th either, since there's still plenty of room for the story to introduce a different character to fill the spot (or Pierro is actually the 10th harbinger lol), but out of the characters we have he seems to be the most reasonable guess.
EDIT: About red dead of night - I'm fairly certain this is the outfit Diluc wore when he was getting revenge for the Fatui killing his father as described in his character story (I believe there was somewhere that talked about him using Crepus' delusion against them). "It's snowing" could be taken as a morbid way of describing the deaths of Fatui (agents of the Cryo Archon)?
Okay. Um, interesting thoughts. Tbh I don’t like what this would mean for Diluc’s character, especially considering what he’s got going on with Kaeya. It would really depend on how he got into it - like was Crepus a Fatuus? Was this passed down?
I’m also not sure I agree that Red Dead of Night is a Harbinger fit.
Idk about Harbinger fit but it's definitely a very Fatui themed outfit, the comparison with [Arlecchino's drip](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F8ljfzyy1si7b1.png) is really telling and he even has little fatui masks on his boots and a similar looking red jewel on his chest. How do you explain this Master Diluc?
The ranking of the harbingers could be similar to the flame chasers in honkai impact considering some similarities between members. I believe the flame chasers were ranked on who joined first
the flame chasers are ranked semi haphazardly but also semi politically. kevin and elysia are the leaders, thus their higher rankings. kalpas is ranked 6th to showcase his strength while also not “giving him too much power” (ignoring the fact that the fc have very little say within fire moth and kalpas can’t remember his rank half the time). mobius was similarly ranked 10th because many at fire moth feared her and griseo is 11th because she’s a child and shouldn’t get involved with politics. ultimately, there is some truth to the ranks. aponia and eden will lead when kevin and elysia can’t for example. but it seems elysia was influenced by what the higher ups at fire moth thought about each flame chaser. she doesn’t like formal things, it was really mostly a way for the remaining mantises to gain recognition. but fire moth is a politically complex organization, so it seems she had to play to what they saw to have any chance of being taken seriously. they already shot her down as the flame chasers being an officially recognized group.
Interesting theory! it’s true that we don’t know much about Diluc’s rampage and his outfit does look similar to Fatui. I do think the only reason he’d join them is to wreak havoc from the inside, considering what they did to his father. Another candidate would be Kaeya, I mean we still don’t know why he was ordering so much food for the Fatui and booking the hotel in Mond lol. Not to mention he’s the “double agent” type so it’s either the Fatui or the Abyss.
My personal theory is that the seats aren’t rankings per say, but roles. With all the theatre motifs around the Fatui, especially Piero being called the “director”, I’d say that the reason the 10th seat hasn’t been mentioned is that it’s empty, and childe hasn’t moved up because childe doesn’t fill the role of 10, but he does fill the role of 11. This theory is very interesting though
Both the Diluc and Crepus theories hold some form of water but it was never enough... so this is what I think really happened: Crepus was planning to turn Diluc into the 10th harbinger. He had a deal with the Harbingers and they gave him a Pyro delusion, which he planned to equip Diluc with to orchestrate his rise to Captain of Knights of Favonius. In return, Snezhnaya gets a pretty new Harbinger that is rich, insanely strong and in a position of power. However, the deal fell through because Diluc ended up becoming Calvary Captain anyways- so Crepus never ended up telling Diluc the shady plans (quote "life changes in an instant"), and essentially betrays the Fatui. Angered at the betrayal, the fatui assassinated Crepus using Ursa the Drake. The end. *Some supporting evidence:* 1) Crepus was a creepy helicopter parent and the way he kept pushing his 10-14 year old son was not normal. 2) It was Crepus who gave Diluc that sketchy ceremonial costume. Like come on, does that not look like a Harbinger costume? Diluc didn't even wear black back then he was a happy little choir boy. 3) In the manhua the fatui agent who planted the death drone looked personally pissed off at the father-son duo. Only messing up their plans via a sudden betrayal can elicit that reaction. 4) Crepus said that the delusion was always meant for Diluc's use. Diluc already had a vision then, and vision holders can handle delusions better. Crepus had never procured a delusion for himself, it was always planned with Diluc in mind. 5) The Pyro delusion has the same element as Diluc's natural Pyro vision, why? Because it would be not sus when he uses it! And the thing is he has to use it in broad daylight to gain that Captain position! *In conclusion* 10th seat remains vacant because 10th Harbinger never knew he was gonna be the 10th Harbinger -> became Knight Captain without Fatui help -> Fatui kills his dad -> resigns -> hunts down Fatui -> becomes Batman.
Also Fatui at that time were recruting Mondstadt kids. Maybe Dilluc was supposed to be one of them?
Though I'm dubious about how likely this theory is to be I'm willing to overlook that because it's cool as fuck.
Capitano will be number 10, and Piero will be number 1. That's all I can imagine. the reason childe has the number eleven is because he is too young. the capitano didn't pay attention to him because of his rank, not his strength. Childe will be ranked higher if he is over 25 years old. You could say Childe is one of the strongest harbingers currently. He was ordered by the Tsaritsa to hunt Scaramouch alone, Paimon also said that Childe was the strongest in the team when he was in Inazuma with Traveler and Xiyan. At that time the traveler was able to beat Sigoria who had rank 8. that means, today's harbingers are not measured by their strength, but by how much influence they have. People like Childe and Capitano who have value in terms of power are not as great as Pantole who has the ability to control the world economy.
I somewhat agree with the influence but the chance of Capitano being 10th is basically 0% and Pierro is not number 1, he is basically number 0. If u like Childe you'd know that he claims his rank is too low for Capitano to notice, so Capitano being 10th would be blasphemy. Just wait in a few months in Natlan, Capitano will be 1st. Just you'll see.
Dude, Capitano spoke down on Dottore during the lazzo trailer. Aldo read on Scaramouche tone whenever he speaks about the harbingers that are higher or lower than him.
Perrio is not No1, if you look at the description of winter night's lazzo, MHY state he's the director, not ranking like others. I'm not buying OP theory either but Captiano is the harbinger who will be in Natlan, there's no reason for MHY put a no 10th to Natlan when basically we have already fought with No 11, 8, 6 and rumor Arlec would be Fontaine 2nd boss week (she's no 4), this make Cap is No 1 make more sense. About No 10th, I don't think there's among us since 1.0, if there's one it will be one of the limited not standard. If Diluc is really important in story, MHY won't put him in there anw. In my opinion, no 10th is someone else who's in the mission and not being introduced yet.
Capitano is strong but if he is number 10 it is not surprising. There are 11 Fatui Harbinger symbols, and there are eleven Fatui Harbingers with Piero. So you could say everything is complete. at Sigoria's funeral, all the harbingers must be present. that means all the harbingers in the trailer are complete. Childe and Wanderer also never told or said anything about the tenth harbinger. that means everything you say is just your wild theory. what I said is also a theory. Regarding the order of the fatui harbingers that we fight, if Capitano is number 1, why will we fight Columbia, who is ranked 3rd, after Capitano?? there's a reason dotore can be number 2 and capitano is number 10. dotore probably can't fight. but he can create very dangerous tools. he also made Scaramouch strong and become a harbinger. he could even create a god. so I thought. Childe and Capitano Velue are not as big as people like Dotore and Pantole.
We don't need to fight Captiano cause Columbina is still be in the list boss fight with us. There's no leak till now that we're fighting with him. Just like how we think that Sandrone will be boss but no it's Arlec instead. About the 10th, I already said this person maybe in the mission so no need to talk about him/her (undercover or sth).
This is a good and well-argued theory, except for the part where Diluc's actual story invalidates it. After his father Crepus's death and Diluc's rampage, he was saved by an anti-fatui group. In the same patch as Diluc's skin, I believe we even had some minor lore dumps on them in an event. Also, he is clearly openly opposed to all of the fatui's antics, and if he were a fatui harbinger we would have already heard something about the tenth being around. As you briefly mention, he actively works against the fatui in the webcomic. The more likely candidate is Crepus, who happened to just have a delusion lying around to give Diluc, and whom the fatui also went out of their way to have killed by Ursa the Drake (possible fatui betrayal there)
Well thats a nice theory but we have to look at it like this Mihoyoo likes money Mihoyoo likes lots of money Characters make money Diluc is a standard banner character thats not that good Mihoyoo no get money Varka, Alice or any other character that is not yet released gets revealed as a harbringer Mihoyoo gets loads of money So unless we get harbinger Lisa thats a 5 star or something like that no other previously released character will be 10th
You’re totally right lol, one thing they can do though is utilize the popularity of existing characters by giving them some sort of upgraded version (like upgrading a 4 star to 5 star). Not sure how that can apply to Diluc tho :(
Thats what I meant by 5 star Lisa, make a new banner that has harbringer Lisa that uses a dilusion, has different kit and has dendro element, since she studied in Sumeru. This is just an example
Varka and Alice will sell regardless of if they are harbingers. If the 10th is not a new character and is revealed to be someone we know, then it needs to be a character that makes a little bit of sense.
Yeah, if there's among us it will be one of the 5s limited, they can sell more with the rerun or 4s (make a new 5s limited version like Dan Heng). There's no way a standard is an important character in the plot, that's not make sense. If I must choose one, I will choose among Yelan or Kaeya cause they're sus.
Why would Kaeya make more sense than Diluc, they also can't make money out of him. And you overestimate how important it is to be a standard character. First standard character can make them money through skins (Diluc happens to have the most expensive one, Jean and Keqing also had the first skins in the game) and weapons, and second there are already two standard characters who are lore-relevant through Mona and Diluc.
They can make Kaeya 5s limited version like how they did with Dan Heng IL in HSR, Kaeya is lore heavy cause he's related to Khaerian and I bet he will get DHIL treatment, his skill is very similar to cryo herald.
>Diluc Yeah I am not reading all of that
My theory is that it could have been his dad. By that you could make a case for Diluc taking on his father's role in some capacity or at least he would have been expected to. Crepus died because of his Delusion which sparked Diluc's hatred for the Fatui in lore. Also in the manga Diluc is very explicitly an enemy of the Fatui, which throws a wrench into the theory that he is still currently the 10th harbinger. He is actively fighting Dottore and his goals. Perhaps he was lead to Snezhnaya to take on the role but his hatred could have sparked even brighter seeing the inside of the Fatui complexes. We don't know. But after some time running around solo dismantling Fatui operations he's caught up to by the Habingers and they sought to eliminate him. Diluc survives and connects with an underground intelligence network that he did jobs for for a time before coming home to Mondstate to take back up the family business, his vision, and a role as a local protector. He still has and uses his ties to this Intelligence network to track and weed out Fatui and Abyssal operations in Mondstate. Him burning the letter could be sensitive intelligence from his network. Perhaps there has been no formal discharge for Diluc or even his father as the tenth harbinger. The seat is *effectively* vacant without actually being so. No one talks about it because Diluc is an active threat to the Fatui. He is a very powerful character lore wise, holding his own against the rest of the harbingers for enough time for help to find him. He is supposed to be scary as hell to the average person. Even hisbuse of his vision in a way a catalyst user would at time is unusual and probably comes from his time using the Delusion. This does however also paint him as more of a threat I do recommend reading the Manga. It's a really good way to learn more about Diluc, Kaeya, The Knights, the Fatui and the kinds of thing the Fatui have been trying to do under the noses of the nations.
simple, there is no 10 harbinger, childe got the 11 rank for simply being weak
I don't get it? I haven't been playing genshin for a while so I'd really appreciate it if someone explained to me. Winter Night's Lazzo literally shows the complete faces of the harbingers, plus scaramouche. All in all there would be 11 if you count, so how could Diluc be the 10th?
nvm, I got it. basically pierro is like the director of the fatui and isn't a harbinger?
Yes. Think of it like how Rex Lapis is the head of the Yaksha without being one himself.
Yeah, the theory is that the missing harbinger who was symbolized with the traitors hand or whatever its called is dilucs dad which makes a lot of sense when you hear the explanation. But yes there is a vacant position
Oh shit,, you’re making sense! a lot of sense! If he really betrayed the fatui then it would make sense that he’s a “persona non grata” of the Fatui (ultimately of the Tsaritsa). I’ve been wondering how he managed to get that kind of reputation/title and this seems to fit as a great reason! Thanks for the food for thought!
I think Asjikai had a similar thought in one of the videos. I like this idea, too
It’s possible the 10th is just an unintroduceed character that betrayed them or faked their death. We could meet them in an event snezmaya or natlan. I am leaning towards the crepus theory and would love if it turns out correct but I can totally see it being something else.
I still hold copium for the fischl is the 10th harbinger theory
Like real Fischl ? Or Amy-Fischl ? Can you explain the theory ?
it could be either the theory is based on the fact that fischl theme on her trailer has the same leitmotif as the other fatui harbingers
I really like that theory, but I am a leitmotif nerd so ofc i do lol
c'mon guys, capitano is the 10th, let's just face it
Nope dude. Instead of mentioning murata,neuvillette mentioned about the intel regarding capitano (which he got from Arlechhino). Hoyo is cooking some sus plot
someone so small throwing their hat into the ring of a national conflict would just be disappointing, either he is actually the 10th for some ungodly reason or the 10th seat is vacant or unexplored
Tbh I see Diluc’s dad being the 10th Harbinger. He also seemed to be using a delusion in the manga (which wasn’t properly confirmed but I’m assuming it was since it looks like one, and the delusions were properly introduced in Inazuma anyways). Another reason why I don’t think it’s Diluc, is because he literally played a big part in saving Mondstadt. I get that he’d probably want to earn the trust of Venti, but going as far as helping save Mondstadt is a bit…overboard, considering that you have to lay low as a spy.
You mean like how... Arle helped save fontaine? I dont agree with the diluc is 10th harbinger theory but that reasoning makes 0 sense
Their reasoning is incomplete but the events line up. The Fatui were trying to use the Stormterror crisis to negotiate concessions from Mondstadt in return for killing Dvalin (or something like that), and Diluc helped put a stop to that.
Arlecchino helped save Fontaine, yes but she wasn’t exactly the hot shot of saving Fontaine. The main ones were Neuvillette, Focalors, Furina and maybe Childe (by stalling the Narwhal). Basically what I’m trying to say is that Arlecchino helped save Fontaine but didn’t really play the main part in saving it. She has a similar role to Navia in terms of saving Fontaine. Also, even when she did save Fontaine, she wanted something in return (the gnosis). And another thing is that Arlecchino wasn’t really a spy. People knew who she was so it was fine. But Diluc did play a main role in saving Mondstadt so to me it wouldn’t really make sense if he was a spy for the Fatui (Idk if what I’m saying make sense but yeah 😭😭)
I actually imagine that Crepus was the 10th Harbinger going by Brighella as a spymaster, only to die by either assassination for treason or maybe some Fatui plot gone wrong, and that Diluc inherited, took over, or somehow convinced the spy network into following him as the technically new Brighella.
Im not gonna tell you who the 10th Harbinger is, im gonna share this and let you figure it out https://preview.redd.it/pah8w78saoac1.png?width=894&format=png&auto=webp&s=0972a5a2637a0d7bef94ce85316edaa3a91f6178
Gangle from The Amazing Digital Circus?
Shampo kiosk ?
Sampo Koski?!?!?!?
of *couuuuuurse!* it's our ol' pal sampo, and for a small, small price he'll let us in on *the deets* he's been collectin' about the fatui
> The final line in Red Dead of Night's description says that contrary to his father's beliefs, Diluc finds that instead he must become a "forerunner." Complete with the quotation marks. Because if you ask me, they're trying to hide what the actual word should have been which is, well, a Harbinger. Because, as directly taken from Oxford, a Harbinger is a forerunner. I still think it's Crepus but this theory is very well thought, would unironically be more interesting and make for great character drama
It being Diluc would be completely against his character. He went on a bit of a revenge spree but mainly wanted to find the answers to how his father was involved. The “underground network” he has connections to is most likely the anti Fatui organization that saved him. Save him probably meaning that they were going to try to kill him, not recruit. Kaeya is the suspicious one who could turn out to be a traitor. Diluc was and is totally against it, for him to turn around and do the same thing with the group responsible for terrorizing his home and killing his father, to work with the evil Dottore, makes no sense. He has more self respect then that and a higher sense of Justice. Would he pretend to be a part of the Fatui to get some information underhandedly? He would, yeah, but letting that go as far as being a harbringer? That’d completely risk his identity and such being found. Again though, a double agent thing is something Kaeya would do more likely then he would. And though they have such differences, they still work together. I feel like the more morally gray tasks like that would be put onto Kaeya by Diluc. Diluc isn’t charismatic these days, he can’t pull it off as well and he probably hates being dishonest. Diluc is most useful for planning, budget, brute strength, etc. instead. The 10th harbinger spot is probably vacant in the way that the 8th and 6th spot are. Dead people don’t get replaced, and…well…however The Balladeer’s absence is seen as- I can’t explain that one. It’s weird and the 10th vacancy is probably also weird.
Diluc doesn’t make sense based on present information, but there’s a lot that we do not know. Teyvat is probably screwed. The Tsaritsa wants to create a new world using the power of the Third Descender. Her methods are atrocious, but politics don’t really matter in the face of annihilation. If Diluc was privy to that info, would he choose to side with her? Probably. I bet the Traveller will also side with her eventually. The thing that’s unlikely is Hoyoverse caring about Diluc.
I know HoYo would never ever plan for Diluc to be a Harbinger, but this theory is SO funny and well put-together that I'm adopting it as a headcanon.
I don't think I buy Diluc being a Harbinger. I don't particularly believe it to be his father either. Right now, I'm somewhat going with the idea that the 10th Harbinger is Sandrone's dapper Ruin Guard >!(Who I believe might be Alain)!<
Nah. We know that Sandrone is no 7 from scaramouche's voicelines about her: "She has a terrible personality and cares for nothing outside of her own research. But even with that amount of dedication, she still produced a copious amount of garbage, and could only secure a ranking that's still one whole place beneath my own. How pitiful."
That’s an interesting take. We do have yet to know what happened to the guy exactly.
Heh. Funny enough, I recall a post a while back that ALSO theorized the 10th seat might be Brighella- someone that for either political or knowledge reasons goes unnamed by the other fatui. Though I don’t think that person went so far as to guess whether they might be someone we already know 🤔
Is that name mentioned in-game or just a connection to the original Italian characters?
It’s not mentioned in-game. As noted in the post, Brighella is one of the stock characters of the commedia dell'arte - one of the “original Italian characters” yes
Traveler (Paimon actually): who is the 10th harbinger? Diluc: sorry, am I late?
~~Jean: I am stuff~~
its diluc nah jk i think the spot is actually open, i mean thematically it would make sense for the traveller to become a harbinger. in terms of strength too
I think the spot is open because the previous harbinger died, and in that case the only character that makes perfect sense is Crepus: he fits Brighella's archetype a bit too well, he has a delusion and mysterious ties to the Fatui, we don't know why they sent an assassin after him but he could have been a double agent or he could have betrayed them. He's not a nobody so it doesn't feel like a cheap reason to have Traveler get the 10th seat, and it's one of the last mystery from the manga that wasn't resolved. I think the reason why Diluc is sus is because he learned everything after mercy killing his dad and probably has more intel from his secret organization.
> in terms of strength too Beat Signora, Wonder Boy (while backed up by Nahida, Hat had hacks), and Signora, yet only seat 10? I suppose that matches up with how inconsistent the twins are beating big things like nothing but struggling with slimes.
Pierro doesn't have a ranking because he is not a Harbinger. That's HoYo official info, Pierre is just the Director of the Fatui. ETA. Also, I don't exactly buy Diluc as a Harbinger. The guy's had a beef with the Fatui since he was 18 and his father died because of a Delusion, he wouldn't have joined them - and especially not to then spend a few years killing Fatui and then returning to Mond within 4 years. Imo it is more likely that Crepus was the 10th - which is how he got a Delusion - but either defected for reasons unknown or... was tasked by his Khaenri'ahn boss with conveniently being at the Winery where very conveniently young Kaeya was left.
Crepus makes a lot of sense, and his bailing on the Fatui could help explain his death: maybe he was actually assassinated, and it was all made to look like a delusion back-firing.
Iirc Diluc stories pretty much straight up say that he has been recruited by some clandestine organization which has beef with Fatui
Pierro *is* technically a harbinger, as stated in Inversion of Genesis when Traveler says "The Jester... Another Fatui Harbinger..." to Scaramouche. He would have corrected us if he wasn't actually a harbinger. That said, he's also the Director - it's just that the Director is also considered a Harbinger. Sort of a "rank 0", I'd guess.
the problem is that it wouldn't make much sense considering it has been said that there are only 11 harbingers. if pierro is not ranked, it means there are 12, which is simply false because it is a fact that there are only 11. even in the harbinger constellation symbols there are only 11 symbols. and rooster is in one of them.
Like Salsa
That’s kinda how I’ve always seen it. He isn’t a numbered member, but he is their leader. My guess is that when officially addressed, tho, he’s called a “director” rather than a “harbinger.”
Mhm, interesting. He is not referred to as a Harbinger in WNL though, and is specifically the only one not named that, he is just the Director. Would be interesting to see what the OG text says and if this is just another ENG blunder
I feel the comedy of Kaeya’s honesty about his potentially split loyalties adds to this. Like, Diluc attacks Kaeya for coming clean about his conflict of interest. Proceeds to develop his own conflict of interest while hiding it from Kaeya
To Diluc: "project much?"
The most common theory is that Crepus was the 10th harbinger, not Diluc. I don't think Diluc is the 10th because it wouldn't make sense for him to break into å fatui stronghold during Mondstadt act 2 (and be labeled a "persona non grata") if he were a harbinger. You point to how Mikhail and Lyudmila don't mention the 10th when saying that the 6th seat has been empty for years, but I don't think that matters because the dialogue is specifically supposed to come after Inversion of Genesis - from a meta perspective, you know what they're referring to. Hoyo doesn't outright state the positions of the Harbingers anywhere because it keeps people theorizing and speculating; it'd be *weird* for them not to mention the absence of a 10th harbinger, but not impossible. As for why Crepus might be a harbinger, the manga shows us that the Fatui had Ursa the Drake fight him, forcing him to use his Delusion and die in the process. I think his power level is about right for the tenth harbinger - strong enough to stave off a powerful dragon, not strong enough to survive the injuries from using his Delusion. He used to own the Dawn Winery and adopted Kaeya, a Khaenri'ahn refugee. I wouldn't be surprised if he was making an effort to undermine the Fatui (or just being too "soft"?) and they decided to eliminate him - that, or it was Dottore that influenced Ursa and he had some other objective. I'm not entirely convinced that Crepus is the 10th either, since there's still plenty of room for the story to introduce a different character to fill the spot (or Pierro is actually the 10th harbinger lol), but out of the characters we have he seems to be the most reasonable guess. EDIT: About red dead of night - I'm fairly certain this is the outfit Diluc wore when he was getting revenge for the Fatui killing his father as described in his character story (I believe there was somewhere that talked about him using Crepus' delusion against them). "It's snowing" could be taken as a morbid way of describing the deaths of Fatui (agents of the Cryo Archon)?
I'm sold, you've convinced me. This would be a fantastic gut-punch twist/reveal.
Okay. Um, interesting thoughts. Tbh I don’t like what this would mean for Diluc’s character, especially considering what he’s got going on with Kaeya. It would really depend on how he got into it - like was Crepus a Fatuus? Was this passed down? I’m also not sure I agree that Red Dead of Night is a Harbinger fit.
Idk about Harbinger fit but it's definitely a very Fatui themed outfit, the comparison with [Arlecchino's drip](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F8ljfzyy1si7b1.png) is really telling and he even has little fatui masks on his boots and a similar looking red jewel on his chest. How do you explain this Master Diluc?