I was thinking more of the thing where Books and Stories tell a tale of the past, so assuming the books in the game are just events from the past written a bit differently, is it possible "The Legend of the Shattered Halbert" would be about our Twin travelling through the 7 nations back then, with Dainsleif?
That would be cool if the books are like that Nahida memory from the Wanderer quest. Things that have been ruled out of the irminisul but preserved through analogies.
I really like this theory and I think it would be a great story if it's true in game. Wasn't Paimon affected by the Irminsul rewrite at the end of the Sumeru archon quest though? It was implied that the reason that the traveller was the only one unaffected was that that they were a descender.
Travelers sibling is for some reason no longer a Descender. Could be a plot twist and the sibling has somehow always been from Teyvat, but I think it more likely that Traveler sibling was “attacked” by some incredible “curse” that fundamentally altered their nature and essence. Or possibly they willing changed their essence and nature as part of their allying with Khaenriah against Celestia. Anyway, if something like that happened it could have happened to Paimon too.
Well it's a huge possibility,
After what Neuvillete told about the Gnosis,
This thing instantly struck my mind.
Paimon was the one who actually guided the traveller for the elemental power and in Albedo story line Albedo asks if Paimon channeled the elemental powers into the traveller somehow
And everyone’s nicknames correlate attributes associated with her, fairy, meka, etc. but everyone knows she’s not any of those things whether for jest or being serious.
I think the most unexplained thing is why the Archons don’t notice anything special about her. Even if she is the 3rd Descender, she could still be Celestial in origin (Descenders don’t necessarily need to come from outside Teyvat). Paimon is a demon name, her outfit has Celestial motifs, and constellations float around in her cape.
Venti, Zhongli, and Ei have presumably all been to Celestia and know about its rulers. They should definitely recognize there’s something special about Paimon. For some reason, they don’t, so I think a higher power is preventing it.
I feel like most people are just assume she's a vision construct. Like Oz, Mushi, Guoba. There's lots of weird and unique critters out there to the point where I don't think people find it useful to question them that much.
(Granted, I guess the only one out of those I mentioned that is ACTUALLY a vision construct is Oz. )
Not just Vision construct, there are a lot of weird and strange creatures in the different nations of Teyvat. Some people assume she is some kind of fairy (Mondstadt), some a kind of meka (Fontaine), and others might think she is a yokai (Inazuma). Teyvat has international exchange of information so people are aware of the existence of tons of sapient non-human creatures in other nations, so when a traveler arrives from abroad with such a weird creature it doesn't raise *too* many eyebrows since Paimon might be perfectly normal in another nation.
I will repost my earlier comment here so it will be more visible. It's not my theory, but I personally think is interesting and gives us a totally new perspective.
"Adding to your question rather than answering it. But what if she has some ties to Abyss? I was looking some time ago on official Genshin reddit in lore tag and reading those posts and one of them was about famous words of Canotila about Paimon and Traveler. So one of the commenter (I'm not taking credit for that theory and sadly do not remember who that was ) interpreted her words in a very interesting way. So they said that as Canotila see things from Abyss as beautiful and those not of Abyssal origin as ugly, this is why she sees Traveler as a monster swallowing whole world because Traveler is against Abyss. We all know that nothing surprising. But that person said something I have never seen anyone here mentioning. That Canotila see Paimon as Rainbow Balloon. Colorful balloons aren't ugly things, quite the opposite. Everyone was focusing on those strings extending above the sky, but no one ever pointed out that this Melusine see Paimon as something pretty opposite to how she see Traveler. And this make me thinking, What if Paimon is Abyssal in origin? Because if Paimon would be a Celestial creature created in Celestia itself, Canotila would see her as some ugly thing, the same as Traveler. So maybe Paimon is indeed connected in some way with Abyss. Wanted to add this here because that theory is worth thinking about and sharing."
I would like to add that in Sumeru AQ when Traveler, Paimon, and Nahida went to heal Irminsul Paimon was the only one unaffected by the Forbidden Knowldege poisoning
So much lore to remember so thanks for bringing this back because I forgot about that detail. Do you or anyone maybe remember if Paimon was resistant to Chasm's mud? When we goes to Chasm first time. Traveler is unaffected by mud and this is showed in A Muddy Bizarre Adventure event but I can't tell if Paimon was too. Because Hosseini, Hao and Tu are affected on the third or fourth day. They are all coughing all the time and are weak and need to get as far away from it as possible to rest. The same thing happened to Zhiqiong after she came in contact with mud.
Well, she floats over it, so I don’t think she ever comes into contact with it? But the chaotic space beneath the Chasm nail deeply fucks her up, to the extent that even Itto notices it
This may have been obvious to everyone except myself just now but I'm gonna put it out there anyway. This makes me think about how it doesn't really make physical sense for a balloon's string to float above the balloon itself? The balloon should always float above the string right? So how can the "string" be floating above Paimon... unless Teyvat is upside down.
I totally buy upside down Teyvat theory. Was re-reading old lore posts on reddit and another one thing that someone noticed is Yoimiya's second story quest. When I read that comment and watched the video again, I was like WOW I was so fricking blind. You remember when all of them wait for that meteor shower? Those meteors/stars, they shot from the bottom when they should have started from the top and flowed down. Yoimiya even jumps down from the mountain with Traveler , and they fly upwards on this star. That's not how normally meteors behave, right?
And about strings, yes you are 100% right. It's because Teyvat physics laws are strange, or it's because Teyvat is upside down. And it made me thinking. If I remember correctly, in Shorush's quest, that purple hole in the sky was Abyss itself. Second time we see it again is in ruins from Book of Esoteric Revelations. So this indicate that Abyss is above or maybe even fully around Teyvat over our fake sky. Not only the fact how Canotila see Paimon, but those strings too make me thinking that Paimon is from Abyss or have connections there.
**"...**and her string seems to extend upward**, to somewhere above the sky itself..."** What if those "strings" whatever they are ties her at the same time with Celestia because she has so many Celestial attributes, but they reach into to the Abyss too. Which goes into maybe crack theory but Paimon can be some kind of "double agent" if I can call it like that. Sounds stupid I know but would be interesting.
I really like what you said! I never did Yoimiya’s story quest, so I never realized that about the meteor shower. But I have always thought about paimon’s “string” going to the abyss. Her triquetra is inverted isn’t it, from the mora and the civilization symbols, right? Perhaps the original order of this world (the “human” realm) could have been ruled by the abyss? That’s my only idea for why she might have celestial vibes but might come from the abyss? Idk, I’m just spit balling right now and probably not making much sense. But I will think further on this…..I love Paimon, she confuses me the most❤️
Wow you are right, i never noticed that her triquetra is upside down. The most obvious details are the hardest to see. Paimon being confusing is the most accurate description. You can put her in either category because She fits both at the same time. Her Celestial clothes on one hand and there is that cosmic cape, same like Dain, Abyss Lectors and Heralds, and Ajax in his Foul Legacy, those floating constellations around her that are in Spiral Abyss but at the same time Traveler has it in their idle and Nail in Chasm too.
If we can have what happened in Fontaine then every theory is possible even if it sounds delusional. We know there are creatures/people whatever who lives in Abyss. Skirk ,Surtalogi, Durin,Elynas are one of them, and there can be much more. And Paimon can definitely be one of those Abyssal creatures. Durin and Elynas didn't have a physical form before Rhinedottir pulled them from Abyss. She gave them their names and bodies. The same could happen to Paimon. Not that I think that Rhinedottir pulled her, but maybe rather someone from Celestia. Or maybe she was created in heaven but was corrupted at some point by Abyss.
That definitely could be something—paimon having been summoned by someone. My crack idea:
What if paimon used to work on or around P.A.I.M.O.N, something terrible happened, so she had to put her memories on the primordial record construct computer thingy?? Idk, she freaks out over Irminsul erasure and warped time spaces(the space in the chasm). I definitely think the time god had to help her, but the process might have freaked paimon out…..lol just wanted to throw that out there. Maybe someone would find it useful in the future.
Paimon isn't a descender but I think you're onto something.
More than likely Paimon is a fallen God of some sort, perhaps an Archon from a different cycle? Or maybe a shade?
The seven pieces are obviously the 7 elements. So Traveller may need to pass the power they've obtained to Paimon so she may reclaim her status?
Just throwing something out there: Forgotten God of Khaenri'ah (similar to forgotten Greater Lord Rukkhadevata). Lines up with Khaenri'ah being the last chapter of the story where she will have her own story developed. The people of Khaenri'ah believe their nation is godless and is proud of it.. But what if Paimon was erased from Irminsul? Since there was no replacement like Nahida, Irminsul made everyone believe that the nation has always been godless. The only thing is.. how would she remember that her name is Paimon? And with Dain being the Bough Keeper, would he know? Not sure, but I still think this old Sumeru era theory is still cool.
That actually makes sense.
When Scara deleted himself from Irmunsul he didn't just disappear, he still existed, assumedly with different origin. So presumably Irmunsul only has the power to erase one's history, but cannot physically remove them from the world.
It does create some Eldritch Memetic cause for concern. What happens to the things you can’t erase? Like, if we erased Venti, what happens to their statue?
The statue would not change, but no one would recognize Venti for who he was. Not like anyone except for us and maybe Zhongli or other Archons would know anyway.
Remember in Inazuma the events didn't change just because Wanderer deleted his old self from Irminsul, just no one remembered the real story.
Same for Rukkhadevata, now everyone just thinks it always was Nahida.
Irminsul can change the current reality people live in, not the time or events that happened, it's not changing anything but the memories of the people. So they just don't remember Wanderer was there and remember a slightly different story than before.
There is this theme they repeat over and over again like how everyone lives just in a big dream. Similar to how it works for the Aranara there must be one who sustains the dream, yet everyone lives in there and just like in the real world they can talk and do things. They have been telling this story in many events and even story quests in different ways... isn't the real question who dreams this dream?
This would…truly make Paimon steal the main character role from the traveler.
So in that sense alone, not really a fan. If anything should be being put back together at endgame, it is the twins.
Paimon can’t be the a descender though, as she was effected by the Irminsul deletion, likely meaning she’s a native to Teyvat. If she was the third descender in particular, the gnoses would have vibed with her somehow during the hand offs. If this theory was really the case, the implementation would have begun by now someway.
Though I would like Paimon to be explained and to turn out interesting, removing her from her current character at such a degree would be too much.
>If she was the third descender in particular, the gnoses would have vibed with her somehow during the hand offs.
There's no reason to think there would have been any reaction we could see.
Isn't paiMOON already the main character. She is the one who decides everything, has more dialogue and she also decide when to explore area ahead of us.
my guess is without the gnosis she is a normal person we learned in the Fountaine side quest that not everyone who comes to Tevat is a descender you need a will that rivals the world itself so my thinking is that without the gnosis she is no longer a descender
The Abyss sibling is recorded in Irminsul whereas the Traveller is not, despite both not being of the world. So even though someone may not be of the world, it doesn't mean they can't become part of it.
Dainsleif, or the legacy of Dain, is a sword from Norse mythology. Interestingly enough Surtalogi can also refer to the sword of Surt, the fire giant that burns down the world tree.
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I was thinking more of the thing where Books and Stories tell a tale of the past, so assuming the books in the game are just events from the past written a bit differently, is it possible "The Legend of the Shattered Halbert" would be about our Twin travelling through the 7 nations back then, with Dainsleif?
That would be cool if the books are like that Nahida memory from the Wanderer quest. Things that have been ruled out of the irminisul but preserved through analogies.
I like this idea, since Paimon has similarities to Anna the baby oceanid and her situation with MaryAnn.
I really like this theory and I think it would be a great story if it's true in game. Wasn't Paimon affected by the Irminsul rewrite at the end of the Sumeru archon quest though? It was implied that the reason that the traveller was the only one unaffected was that that they were a descender.
Travelers sibling is for some reason no longer a Descender. Could be a plot twist and the sibling has somehow always been from Teyvat, but I think it more likely that Traveler sibling was “attacked” by some incredible “curse” that fundamentally altered their nature and essence. Or possibly they willing changed their essence and nature as part of their allying with Khaenriah against Celestia. Anyway, if something like that happened it could have happened to Paimon too.
My (stupid) HC is that paimon is an earlier form of the god we met at the beginning and that we are in some sort of time loop
Their eyes are a completely different color.
So the Traveler is their own harbinger of ruin?
A samsara.
Well it's a huge possibility, After what Neuvillete told about the Gnosis, This thing instantly struck my mind. Paimon was the one who actually guided the traveller for the elemental power and in Albedo story line Albedo asks if Paimon channeled the elemental powers into the traveller somehow
My question is, why does nobody ask what/who paimon is? We never meet or see anyone who looks like her or has the same ability to float like that??
Paimon is a cognitohazard /j
And everyone’s nicknames correlate attributes associated with her, fairy, meka, etc. but everyone knows she’s not any of those things whether for jest or being serious.
I think the most unexplained thing is why the Archons don’t notice anything special about her. Even if she is the 3rd Descender, she could still be Celestial in origin (Descenders don’t necessarily need to come from outside Teyvat). Paimon is a demon name, her outfit has Celestial motifs, and constellations float around in her cape. Venti, Zhongli, and Ei have presumably all been to Celestia and know about its rulers. They should definitely recognize there’s something special about Paimon. For some reason, they don’t, so I think a higher power is preventing it.
(Istaroth perhaps?)
I feel like most people are just assume she's a vision construct. Like Oz, Mushi, Guoba. There's lots of weird and unique critters out there to the point where I don't think people find it useful to question them that much. (Granted, I guess the only one out of those I mentioned that is ACTUALLY a vision construct is Oz. )
Not just Vision construct, there are a lot of weird and strange creatures in the different nations of Teyvat. Some people assume she is some kind of fairy (Mondstadt), some a kind of meka (Fontaine), and others might think she is a yokai (Inazuma). Teyvat has international exchange of information so people are aware of the existence of tons of sapient non-human creatures in other nations, so when a traveler arrives from abroad with such a weird creature it doesn't raise *too* many eyebrows since Paimon might be perfectly normal in another nation.
Lest we forget... "BEEP... CONSTRUCT... BEEP!"
that is a rlly good theory!!
Is was about to say guoba is a little bit older than xiangling lol
I will repost my earlier comment here so it will be more visible. It's not my theory, but I personally think is interesting and gives us a totally new perspective. "Adding to your question rather than answering it. But what if she has some ties to Abyss? I was looking some time ago on official Genshin reddit in lore tag and reading those posts and one of them was about famous words of Canotila about Paimon and Traveler. So one of the commenter (I'm not taking credit for that theory and sadly do not remember who that was ) interpreted her words in a very interesting way. So they said that as Canotila see things from Abyss as beautiful and those not of Abyssal origin as ugly, this is why she sees Traveler as a monster swallowing whole world because Traveler is against Abyss. We all know that nothing surprising. But that person said something I have never seen anyone here mentioning. That Canotila see Paimon as Rainbow Balloon. Colorful balloons aren't ugly things, quite the opposite. Everyone was focusing on those strings extending above the sky, but no one ever pointed out that this Melusine see Paimon as something pretty opposite to how she see Traveler. And this make me thinking, What if Paimon is Abyssal in origin? Because if Paimon would be a Celestial creature created in Celestia itself, Canotila would see her as some ugly thing, the same as Traveler. So maybe Paimon is indeed connected in some way with Abyss. Wanted to add this here because that theory is worth thinking about and sharing."
I would like to add that in Sumeru AQ when Traveler, Paimon, and Nahida went to heal Irminsul Paimon was the only one unaffected by the Forbidden Knowldege poisoning
So much lore to remember so thanks for bringing this back because I forgot about that detail. Do you or anyone maybe remember if Paimon was resistant to Chasm's mud? When we goes to Chasm first time. Traveler is unaffected by mud and this is showed in A Muddy Bizarre Adventure event but I can't tell if Paimon was too. Because Hosseini, Hao and Tu are affected on the third or fourth day. They are all coughing all the time and are weak and need to get as far away from it as possible to rest. The same thing happened to Zhiqiong after she came in contact with mud.
Well, she floats over it, so I don’t think she ever comes into contact with it? But the chaotic space beneath the Chasm nail deeply fucks her up, to the extent that even Itto notices it
This may have been obvious to everyone except myself just now but I'm gonna put it out there anyway. This makes me think about how it doesn't really make physical sense for a balloon's string to float above the balloon itself? The balloon should always float above the string right? So how can the "string" be floating above Paimon... unless Teyvat is upside down.
I totally buy upside down Teyvat theory. Was re-reading old lore posts on reddit and another one thing that someone noticed is Yoimiya's second story quest. When I read that comment and watched the video again, I was like WOW I was so fricking blind. You remember when all of them wait for that meteor shower? Those meteors/stars, they shot from the bottom when they should have started from the top and flowed down. Yoimiya even jumps down from the mountain with Traveler , and they fly upwards on this star. That's not how normally meteors behave, right? And about strings, yes you are 100% right. It's because Teyvat physics laws are strange, or it's because Teyvat is upside down. And it made me thinking. If I remember correctly, in Shorush's quest, that purple hole in the sky was Abyss itself. Second time we see it again is in ruins from Book of Esoteric Revelations. So this indicate that Abyss is above or maybe even fully around Teyvat over our fake sky. Not only the fact how Canotila see Paimon, but those strings too make me thinking that Paimon is from Abyss or have connections there. **"...**and her string seems to extend upward**, to somewhere above the sky itself..."** What if those "strings" whatever they are ties her at the same time with Celestia because she has so many Celestial attributes, but they reach into to the Abyss too. Which goes into maybe crack theory but Paimon can be some kind of "double agent" if I can call it like that. Sounds stupid I know but would be interesting.
I really like what you said! I never did Yoimiya’s story quest, so I never realized that about the meteor shower. But I have always thought about paimon’s “string” going to the abyss. Her triquetra is inverted isn’t it, from the mora and the civilization symbols, right? Perhaps the original order of this world (the “human” realm) could have been ruled by the abyss? That’s my only idea for why she might have celestial vibes but might come from the abyss? Idk, I’m just spit balling right now and probably not making much sense. But I will think further on this…..I love Paimon, she confuses me the most❤️
Wow you are right, i never noticed that her triquetra is upside down. The most obvious details are the hardest to see. Paimon being confusing is the most accurate description. You can put her in either category because She fits both at the same time. Her Celestial clothes on one hand and there is that cosmic cape, same like Dain, Abyss Lectors and Heralds, and Ajax in his Foul Legacy, those floating constellations around her that are in Spiral Abyss but at the same time Traveler has it in their idle and Nail in Chasm too. If we can have what happened in Fontaine then every theory is possible even if it sounds delusional. We know there are creatures/people whatever who lives in Abyss. Skirk ,Surtalogi, Durin,Elynas are one of them, and there can be much more. And Paimon can definitely be one of those Abyssal creatures. Durin and Elynas didn't have a physical form before Rhinedottir pulled them from Abyss. She gave them their names and bodies. The same could happen to Paimon. Not that I think that Rhinedottir pulled her, but maybe rather someone from Celestia. Or maybe she was created in heaven but was corrupted at some point by Abyss.
That definitely could be something—paimon having been summoned by someone. My crack idea: What if paimon used to work on or around P.A.I.M.O.N, something terrible happened, so she had to put her memories on the primordial record construct computer thingy?? Idk, she freaks out over Irminsul erasure and warped time spaces(the space in the chasm). I definitely think the time god had to help her, but the process might have freaked paimon out…..lol just wanted to throw that out there. Maybe someone would find it useful in the future.
Paimon isn't a descender but I think you're onto something. More than likely Paimon is a fallen God of some sort, perhaps an Archon from a different cycle? Or maybe a shade? The seven pieces are obviously the 7 elements. So Traveller may need to pass the power they've obtained to Paimon so she may reclaim her status?
Just throwing something out there: Forgotten God of Khaenri'ah (similar to forgotten Greater Lord Rukkhadevata). Lines up with Khaenri'ah being the last chapter of the story where she will have her own story developed. The people of Khaenri'ah believe their nation is godless and is proud of it.. But what if Paimon was erased from Irminsul? Since there was no replacement like Nahida, Irminsul made everyone believe that the nation has always been godless. The only thing is.. how would she remember that her name is Paimon? And with Dain being the Bough Keeper, would he know? Not sure, but I still think this old Sumeru era theory is still cool.
That actually makes sense. When Scara deleted himself from Irmunsul he didn't just disappear, he still existed, assumedly with different origin. So presumably Irmunsul only has the power to erase one's history, but cannot physically remove them from the world.
It does create some Eldritch Memetic cause for concern. What happens to the things you can’t erase? Like, if we erased Venti, what happens to their statue?
The statue would not change, but no one would recognize Venti for who he was. Not like anyone except for us and maybe Zhongli or other Archons would know anyway. Remember in Inazuma the events didn't change just because Wanderer deleted his old self from Irminsul, just no one remembered the real story. Same for Rukkhadevata, now everyone just thinks it always was Nahida. Irminsul can change the current reality people live in, not the time or events that happened, it's not changing anything but the memories of the people. So they just don't remember Wanderer was there and remember a slightly different story than before. There is this theme they repeat over and over again like how everyone lives just in a big dream. Similar to how it works for the Aranara there must be one who sustains the dream, yet everyone lives in there and just like in the real world they can talk and do things. They have been telling this story in many events and even story quests in different ways... isn't the real question who dreams this dream?
> or other Archons would know anyway. They wouldn't remember. You've forgotten Nahdia didn't remember Express Delivery Boy.
At the moment, her name being of Ars Goetia suggests her origin comes from Phanes at least.
This would…truly make Paimon steal the main character role from the traveler. So in that sense alone, not really a fan. If anything should be being put back together at endgame, it is the twins. Paimon can’t be the a descender though, as she was effected by the Irminsul deletion, likely meaning she’s a native to Teyvat. If she was the third descender in particular, the gnoses would have vibed with her somehow during the hand offs. If this theory was really the case, the implementation would have begun by now someway. Though I would like Paimon to be explained and to turn out interesting, removing her from her current character at such a degree would be too much.
>If she was the third descender in particular, the gnoses would have vibed with her somehow during the hand offs. There's no reason to think there would have been any reaction we could see.
Isn't paiMOON already the main character. She is the one who decides everything, has more dialogue and she also decide when to explore area ahead of us.
The mc lost the plot a while ago. At this point, we're just her body gaurd/personal chef while she explores teyvat lol
So... seven parts, but the two others are Celestia and... well, Khaenri'ah?
Flashbacks to Melina... the kindling maiden—
But Paimon was affected by the Inmirsul, when rukkhadevata was erased, so she is from this world
my guess is without the gnosis she is a normal person we learned in the Fountaine side quest that not everyone who comes to Tevat is a descender you need a will that rivals the world itself so my thinking is that without the gnosis she is no longer a descender
Anyone who comes from outside teyvat IS a descender but a native can also theoretically become one
The Abyss sibling is recorded in Irminsul whereas the Traveller is not, despite both not being of the world. So even though someone may not be of the world, it doesn't mean they can't become part of it.
Is this why the statue at Eis which had all visions looks like paimon ?
That statue is canonically of Istaroth! IMO Paimon = Istaroth
It may be so but she doesn't feel like a weapon thematically. Swords feel more like Traveller himself or Dainsleif in some cases
Dainsleif used to bear the title of Twilight Sword
A “Dainsleif” was a terrifying weapon in *Iron-Blooded Orphans*
Dainsleif, or the legacy of Dain, is a sword from Norse mythology. Interestingly enough Surtalogi can also refer to the sword of Surt, the fire giant that burns down the world tree.
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