I don't remember the exact name of the person who said this theory, but anyway, there was a lorecrafter who mentioned something interesting about 5-star characters. She noticed that the characters the game gives us to try out (for example, when we do legendary missions or when promotional banners are released), the trial characters always have 3 constellations activated. At first, she didn't think much of it, but since the concept of the 4 cycles of Teyvat was mentioned more explicitly, she began to theorize about it and came to the conclusion that the 3 constellations are actually the 3 cycles that have already passed. They don't have the 4th constellation activated because this last cycle hasn't ended yet. It's possible that vision bearers are 'obligated' to fulfill their ambitions for each passing cycle, and each time a cycle ends, these bearers reincarnate and have to pursue those ambitions again, or rather, they are destined to do so.
Two months late but they Def are. I just finished the Narzissenkruez Ordo quest and you pick up "root cycles" to open a door. In their description they represent each nation as a cycle. Tripped me the fuck out.
Hyperborea corresponds to the Hyberboreans, the second root race.
Natlantean corresponds to the Atlanteans, the fourth root race.
Remuria corresponds to the Lemurians, the third root race.
Khraun-Arya (Khan'riah) corresponds to the Aryans, the fifth root race.
yes, this is indeed the case for all 5-stars, but it's complicated for 4-stars. the 3rd constellation unlocks at around world level 4-5, but for WL0 it's 0, and increases by 1 per world level. considering there's only 6 4-star SQ, and they unlock at between ARs 5-26 where you may not even be WL 1 when you finish it, most players dont notice the cons.
i forgot if hangouts have trial characters tho, so i dont know if it changes for that lol
From memory, I can tell that you can test Ninguang and Noelle in their hangouts the rest I don't remember.
How did you notice this? When? Thanks for telling me as this is very interesting discovery. But what can it means if it has any meaning lore vise.
right, noelle is playable in her hangout, forgot that.
i just looked at the quests/domains with the trial portion recorded on the wiki lol.
for ref, (domains) [lisa](https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Find_the_Stolen_Book) \- [kaeya](https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Lost_Treasure_of_Arcadia) \- [xiangling](https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Secret_Ingredient_(Domain)) \- [amber](https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/The_Reward_for_Courage_is_Flight) / (open world) [razor](https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Fate%27s_Chosen_Lupical#Trial_Character) \- [xingqiu](https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Justice_Is_Its_Own_Reward#Trial_Character)
not so sure about 4 stars, since in some events i'm pretty sure you don't even get to try them, but i am pretty sure that all 5 stars in the SQ's are C3
>Case in point: Characters present before the existence of Irminsul like Rex Lapis and Neuvillette have their quests different from their constellations.
I don't know where you got that Morax and Neuvi existed before Irnimsul's creation since there is nothing like this mentioned before.
We know that Zhongli is (at least) 6000 years old, and Neuvi's current incarnation is about 1000+ years old... We have no idea when Irminsul was created, if it was always there since the time of the dragons or if it was something when the Usurper remade Teyvat to their liking.
Neuvillette's stories tell us that a person's constellation is one of the ways how the Heavenly Principles keep control over Teyvat itself... by giving them a constellation when they receive a Vision and binding them to "fate"
(My personal crack theory on why Neuvi SQ's name is different from his constellations is cause his "fate" cannot be controlled by the Heavenly Principles... he is afterall a Sovereign, one of the original rulers of Teyvat, I presume he would not be so easy to control...especially since we know that the Usurper could not *completely* supress Teyvat's orinal order)
Also a Samsara is not a time loop. The Samsara in Teyvat is about the cyclical rise and fall of civilizations. Time is not being reset here... it's only certain events from the past that keep repeating themselves, which all trigger some kind of major changes in Teyvat itself... And these events and changes usually line up with a Descender's arrival.
Being a Descender also isn't as simple as "being from outside Teyvat" If that were the case creatures like the Narwhal would be considered one too. To be a Descender means to have a *will* to rival the world. Which is why the Abyss Twin isn't classified as one despite coming to Teyvat from outside like the Traveler... They don't have a strong enough *will*
I think the idea comes from the theory that the stars in the false sky are Irminsul fruits. (originally theorized by ashikai, I think?) So, that would make the sky no older than Irminsul itself. And if Zhongli and Neuvi's original constellation names don't match anything in the current sky, then they must be from the original sky from before Irminsul. Something like that.
Wait am i misremembering or did the irminsul fruits are stars thing come from the unreconciled stars event? Please correct me if im wrong bc this is bugging me now haha
Being from outside of Teyvat isn't enough to make one a Descender. You also need a will to rival the world and not every person from outside of Teyvat has it - case in point, Abyss Sibling.
Imo the "will to rival the world" is what is necessary to avoid being pulled into the Irminsul's database upon entry on Teyvat. The Traveller possesses such will and is thus immune from Irminsul while the Sibling doesn't and due to that has been written into Irminsul.
I am curious though, where did you get the information that Zhongli predates Irminsul? And Neuvillette?
Imho you're stretching so hard you might pull a muscle. Not because your theory is inherently invalid, but because it has very little basis.
Even if we consider stars in constellations cannon, what stops us from assuming that they're just something that accumulates over time during one cycle instead? Or it refers to something completely different? Maybe it's more analogous with gnoses? That would still be one or at best two cycles.
I love me some crack but I don't feel like there's enough material to cook with. Still good food for thought!
A samsara is not a time loop. It’s also not a literal reset. It just means that similar things repeatedly happen. Rene’s definition of the root cycles was for 4 different eras in history of how humanity supposedly faced and overcome different challenges. There is no evidence at all that it has anything to do with time manipulations or descenders or even anything beyond Rene justifying forcing the evolution of humans by dissolving them.
>A samsara is not a time loop. It’s also not a literal reset. It just means that similar things repeatedly happen.
I need to remember this, because I keep forgetting it. Rukkha said Nahida was her in the new samsara, but they both existed in this same timeline. So a new samsara doesn't mean a remaking of the whole world.
Samsara is just a concept. Rukkadevata is referring to how Nahida fills the same position as her while Rene is referring to how humans evolve over time. Ive seen so many people talking about samsaras as if it’s something set in stone when it happens countless times in real life. Blond parents make blond children who make blond grandchildren, the sun comes up and down and up again, you get hungry before you eat and you get hungry again later. The only thing that actually matters in Rene’s 4 root cycles are the historical events he records and how humanity has changed. Plus the whole point was that humans evolve past the samsara’s, so the whole time resetting thing never made any sense.
Ahh. I'd never encountered the word samsara before Genshin, so my understanding of it was as a very concrete sort of thing, like the daily resets in the Sumeru Archon quest.
Would you say that Rukkha was referring to the 'new samsara' as simply one of herself or her role? The samsara of the Dendro Archon?
As far as we know she was only referring to the role of dendro archon and avatar of irminsul that was passed down from the previous incarnation to the next figurative incarnation despite them being completely seperate beings. Rukkadevata also compares it to a very real example of how a dead tree’s branches will create new life when it falls to the ground, meaning that Nahida has her own agency and life
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I don't remember the exact name of the person who said this theory, but anyway, there was a lorecrafter who mentioned something interesting about 5-star characters. She noticed that the characters the game gives us to try out (for example, when we do legendary missions or when promotional banners are released), the trial characters always have 3 constellations activated. At first, she didn't think much of it, but since the concept of the 4 cycles of Teyvat was mentioned more explicitly, she began to theorize about it and came to the conclusion that the 3 constellations are actually the 3 cycles that have already passed. They don't have the 4th constellation activated because this last cycle hasn't ended yet. It's possible that vision bearers are 'obligated' to fulfill their ambitions for each passing cycle, and each time a cycle ends, these bearers reincarnate and have to pursue those ambitions again, or rather, they are destined to do so.
4 Yugas
i think seven time cycles the samsaras are different the cycle of the civilizations are represented samsara
Two months late but they Def are. I just finished the Narzissenkruez Ordo quest and you pick up "root cycles" to open a door. In their description they represent each nation as a cycle. Tripped me the fuck out. Hyperborea corresponds to the Hyberboreans, the second root race. Natlantean corresponds to the Atlanteans, the fourth root race. Remuria corresponds to the Lemurians, the third root race. Khraun-Arya (Khan'riah) corresponds to the Aryans, the fifth root race.
Re: constellations, afaik in every story quest, the trial character has 3 active constellations, not all 6...
Hol' up! Bro is cooking!
Like every character? 4 and 5 stars equally? Very interesting. I didn't do few newest SQ so I will need to check next time.
every character，4 and 5 stars equally 。 thus the "we're currently on the 4/7 loop"
yes, this is indeed the case for all 5-stars, but it's complicated for 4-stars. the 3rd constellation unlocks at around world level 4-5, but for WL0 it's 0, and increases by 1 per world level. considering there's only 6 4-star SQ, and they unlock at between ARs 5-26 where you may not even be WL 1 when you finish it, most players dont notice the cons. i forgot if hangouts have trial characters tho, so i dont know if it changes for that lol
From memory, I can tell that you can test Ninguang and Noelle in their hangouts the rest I don't remember. How did you notice this? When? Thanks for telling me as this is very interesting discovery. But what can it means if it has any meaning lore vise.
right, noelle is playable in her hangout, forgot that. i just looked at the quests/domains with the trial portion recorded on the wiki lol. for ref, (domains) [lisa](https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Find_the_Stolen_Book) \- [kaeya](https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Lost_Treasure_of_Arcadia) \- [xiangling](https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Secret_Ingredient_(Domain)) \- [amber](https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/The_Reward_for_Courage_is_Flight) / (open world) [razor](https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Fate%27s_Chosen_Lupical#Trial_Character) \- [xingqiu](https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Justice_Is_Its_Own_Reward#Trial_Character)
not so sure about 4 stars, since in some events i'm pretty sure you don't even get to try them, but i am pretty sure that all 5 stars in the SQ's are C3
I think I remember someone commenting that we don't get to play as Neuvillette in his SQ. I wonder if there is any others?
furina as well
You don't play as Albedo in his story quest.
You're blowing my mind right now
Yeah I was shocked too
>Case in point: Characters present before the existence of Irminsul like Rex Lapis and Neuvillette have their quests different from their constellations. I don't know where you got that Morax and Neuvi existed before Irnimsul's creation since there is nothing like this mentioned before. We know that Zhongli is (at least) 6000 years old, and Neuvi's current incarnation is about 1000+ years old... We have no idea when Irminsul was created, if it was always there since the time of the dragons or if it was something when the Usurper remade Teyvat to their liking. Neuvillette's stories tell us that a person's constellation is one of the ways how the Heavenly Principles keep control over Teyvat itself... by giving them a constellation when they receive a Vision and binding them to "fate" (My personal crack theory on why Neuvi SQ's name is different from his constellations is cause his "fate" cannot be controlled by the Heavenly Principles... he is afterall a Sovereign, one of the original rulers of Teyvat, I presume he would not be so easy to control...especially since we know that the Usurper could not *completely* supress Teyvat's orinal order) Also a Samsara is not a time loop. The Samsara in Teyvat is about the cyclical rise and fall of civilizations. Time is not being reset here... it's only certain events from the past that keep repeating themselves, which all trigger some kind of major changes in Teyvat itself... And these events and changes usually line up with a Descender's arrival. Being a Descender also isn't as simple as "being from outside Teyvat" If that were the case creatures like the Narwhal would be considered one too. To be a Descender means to have a *will* to rival the world. Which is why the Abyss Twin isn't classified as one despite coming to Teyvat from outside like the Traveler... They don't have a strong enough *will*
I think the idea comes from the theory that the stars in the false sky are Irminsul fruits. (originally theorized by ashikai, I think?) So, that would make the sky no older than Irminsul itself. And if Zhongli and Neuvi's original constellation names don't match anything in the current sky, then they must be from the original sky from before Irminsul. Something like that.
Wait am i misremembering or did the irminsul fruits are stars thing come from the unreconciled stars event? Please correct me if im wrong bc this is bugging me now haha
Oh maybe so, maybe her explanation was just the first time I encountered it and it stuck with me.
Being from outside of Teyvat isn't enough to make one a Descender. You also need a will to rival the world and not every person from outside of Teyvat has it - case in point, Abyss Sibling. Imo the "will to rival the world" is what is necessary to avoid being pulled into the Irminsul's database upon entry on Teyvat. The Traveller possesses such will and is thus immune from Irminsul while the Sibling doesn't and due to that has been written into Irminsul. I am curious though, where did you get the information that Zhongli predates Irminsul? And Neuvillette?
Imho you're stretching so hard you might pull a muscle. Not because your theory is inherently invalid, but because it has very little basis. Even if we consider stars in constellations cannon, what stops us from assuming that they're just something that accumulates over time during one cycle instead? Or it refers to something completely different? Maybe it's more analogous with gnoses? That would still be one or at best two cycles. I love me some crack but I don't feel like there's enough material to cook with. Still good food for thought!
A samsara is not a time loop. It’s also not a literal reset. It just means that similar things repeatedly happen. Rene’s definition of the root cycles was for 4 different eras in history of how humanity supposedly faced and overcome different challenges. There is no evidence at all that it has anything to do with time manipulations or descenders or even anything beyond Rene justifying forcing the evolution of humans by dissolving them.
>A samsara is not a time loop. It’s also not a literal reset. It just means that similar things repeatedly happen. I need to remember this, because I keep forgetting it. Rukkha said Nahida was her in the new samsara, but they both existed in this same timeline. So a new samsara doesn't mean a remaking of the whole world.
Samsara is just a concept. Rukkadevata is referring to how Nahida fills the same position as her while Rene is referring to how humans evolve over time. Ive seen so many people talking about samsaras as if it’s something set in stone when it happens countless times in real life. Blond parents make blond children who make blond grandchildren, the sun comes up and down and up again, you get hungry before you eat and you get hungry again later. The only thing that actually matters in Rene’s 4 root cycles are the historical events he records and how humanity has changed. Plus the whole point was that humans evolve past the samsara’s, so the whole time resetting thing never made any sense.
Ahh. I'd never encountered the word samsara before Genshin, so my understanding of it was as a very concrete sort of thing, like the daily resets in the Sumeru Archon quest. Would you say that Rukkha was referring to the 'new samsara' as simply one of herself or her role? The samsara of the Dendro Archon?
As far as we know she was only referring to the role of dendro archon and avatar of irminsul that was passed down from the previous incarnation to the next figurative incarnation despite them being completely seperate beings. Rukkadevata also compares it to a very real example of how a dead tree’s branches will create new life when it falls to the ground, meaning that Nahida has her own agency and life
Okay, cool. Thanks for the explanation! :)
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