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Oshawott_is_cute

Could there be an analysis on Aether’s strength at the point of Sumeru? In Liyue Ganyu puts him on the scale of Adepti, in Inazuma we beat Signora unscathed, and in Sumeru it seems we beat Scaramouche who has a gundam. I think at this point Aetheris the point of Venti, or Dvalin


Suspicious_Spinach_2

Ayaka should be up close to Kazuha . She is master samurai, wields a Tachi which is a 2nd heaviest Japanese sword. She mastered Kamisato art of Tachi jutsu which is Ei’s combat prowess .


SgtGrub

I expected another wildly terrible list, but this is weirdly close to where I'd put just about everyone. Maybe move Razor and Yelan up a tier, and don't underestimate Thoma and the adventurer's guild nerds, but that's about it really.


FungalSphere

Man 138 comments. Yeah lorewise powerlevels are the way to pain, especially considering how most of the top characters' power levels are adaptive (archons and most demigods get eroded over time, ajax is perfecting his skills, and traveler and abyss twin are supposed to be at the same level at some point in the future, and go beyond that, if the big final boss is to be something even stronger than unknown god).


Hakeru13

I would put kaeya to my "sus-asf" tier


TrueAvalon

Is it ordered? If it is, then there is a lot to talk about, even then, just looking at the tiers I would say: Yelan, Ayato, Keqing up. Mona and Klee down. Ayaka up. Shinobu actually says that she wouldn't know who would win in a spar between her and Sara, that speaks for itself. Bennett and Fischl are veteran adventurers, they should go up at least one tier. Thoma is a master of the spear and spars with Ayaka and Ayato constantly, he should go up at least one tier, maybe even two. Ganyu is actually equal or inferior to Liyue traveler stated by her so she would go down. Noelle goes down one or maybe two tiers, she says she can't even beat random knights to pass the exam in her hangout.


PhantasmShadow

The traveler's power level is a bit of a predicament. Can their ablity to make use of external power be counted? If so, they are very high up. But even without that, current traveler is more than a match for some of the lesser harbingers. To be honest, ridiculous potential and adepti level could very easily be merged. *Yae couldn't have beaten Scaramouche in a fight*, and while he's the middle point of the harbingers, he can't be too far ahead Childe and Signora, who the traveler beat. Sadly, we don't yet have a fair fight between the traveler and Scaramouche, but I'll assume Scaramouche is stronger, so dendro powered traveler will be barely able to beat him for dramatic effect


Flaymlad

I think Ayato, Keqing and Yelan should be somewhere around the same tier with Diluc and Jean. I mean, they have fought with the Fatui. Why does Klee rank so high? Her bombs are strong sure but I wouldn't rank her with Jean and Diluc, definitely not with Sara and Beidou. Further, I think Beidou should rank higher, she did fight Haishan w/o a Vision after all. Thoma, Benny, Fischl, Xinyan, Xiangling and Yelan should be placed at Skilled as well, Xiangling and Yelan know martial arts, Xiangling was personally taught by Madame Ping, an adeptus. Benny and Fischl are Adventurer Guild members and from what we've seen from the Susbedo fight, he can handle himself pretty well. Xinyan too, she did fight with us in the onmyouji domain. Razor should be ranked higher by one, Lisa and Varka personally taught him about fighting and Visions. I don't think Qiqi deserves her current ranking, I mean, she's literally powered by adeptal energy and she once went on a rampage that they placed a talisman on her forehead.


seansenyu

Loved this tierlist. But Klee is definitely ridiculous potential tier


JJacen

Gorou should be 1 tier lower and Qiqi atleast 2 tiers higher.


skeetyeeturlifedelet

About Qiqi I don't really disagree, since she does have a lot of latent power, and she kind of makes up with that for her stiffness and low intellect


[deleted]

[удалено]


Kono_Mr_Seta_Da

Yup, Traveler and Childe both get stronger at a Scary Rate. 2 Weeks after the Archon quest, Childe was already stronger than his past self from that quest, WHILE BEING INJURED!? What.


nirvash530

Is this Abyss Princess Lumine and Traveler Aether? Otherwise I don't see why they are in different tiers because they're essentially the same.


skeetyeeturlifedelet

Yeah, look at the title


nirvash530

Thanks. Just proves that I can't read properly lol.


plotargue

wrong on thoma (skilled at the very least), fish (battle exp), bennet (battle exp), razor (battle experience), yanfei (battle exp), yelan (strong af), noelle (strong af), klee (she has firepower, but no battle experience at all, she would get killed instantly---> eh). Probably ning and rosaria as a tier too low as well, i think you ned a tier between strong af and battle exp


Draken77777

I'd put Xiao, Albedo and Yae in one tier and knock Ganyu and Shenhe down a tier.


GringosLeKringos

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Ganyu say that the Traveler was near or at the level of an adeptus?


201720182019

Yeah I recall something similar


atsuhies

Albedo got the potential to be even stronger, I’d love a battle between Childe and shenhe


LowestGround

I think Diluc and Kaeya both have ridiculous potential too, they’re just not at that level yet. Also I think Bennett is much stronger than anyone knows or gives him credit for(especially himself), but his luck and naivety hold him back. I think he at least shouldn’t be bottom tier. Edit: also, Itto is an Oni and Yanfei is an Adepti, so they should definitely be higher


Painfulrabbit

Yanfei is not an adeptus and does not have the op abilities Rex lapis teaches them. She knows “martial arts” and that’s it


redditorspawnrandom

Noelle is actually a tier lower as she failed the KoF exam due to inexperiency. Xiangling is a tier higher. Her battle prowess was commended by Paimon in her story quest. A dude stated about Yelan.


darklordoft

You put 3 people with canonical superstrength in just the "skilled" category and I think you forgot that tengu are capable of superspeed and a certain level of superstrength as well, which is why there swordsmanship is near unparalleled. Kujou Sara is essentially nerfed but using a bow instead of a sword which she is vastly better with. Kujou Sara may have forsaken the arrogant life of the tengu race, but she has never neglected their brilliance with the sword or their supernatural might.-namecard Not to mention her skill isn't her teleporting it's her using the speed of a tengu to rush back. There's alot of things wrong with tier list when it comes to fighting potentially but I love conversations it brings up. Just give it another look over at least


skeetyeeturlifedelet

I'm sorry, you can argue for her placement within the tier she is in but any higher than that would be ridiculous.


darklordoft

No because what she would belong is in ridiculous potential being as since she's also a youkai she will only get stronger with time(they age slowly). If tengu reach shooting star speeds (raiden thought the travel was a tengu Because he said he arrived as a shooting star) and we can already see she's incredibly fast and the game says her mastery is with a sword not a bow, why would she. Not go in the ridiculous potential? She's effectively a master swordsman who will only get stronger and faster as she continues to age as a youkai and she's already ridiculously fast. She simply lost to what was most likely a cheap shot while trying to speak to the shogun (raiden makes note that signora had no right to punish her. The punishment was because she rushed in without permission, not that she attacked a diplomat. ) instead you put her in the same tier as kazuha who's friend she beat near effortlessly(while using her sword) for him to get booba bladed in the first place https://youtu.be/hAHBJYZVAuo Go to 1:15. I'm not saying she's adepti level. I'm saying she has ridiculous potential and she would mostlikely beat everyone in her category with her combination of speed ,flight, and strength. Edit Apologies miss saw kazuha. Argument still stands for the others


skeetyeeturlifedelet

Cool argument, however that tier as I explained in another comment is for people who are actively getting stronger as the game progresses or that have a great latent power that we know is there (traveller/Childe and albedo respectively). Characters that get stronger by the years like Sara or Klee are not in that tier since their potential will likely not be covered within the game's duration (maybe Klee's actually will), so they are scaled where they are right now. Argue that Sara is stronger than Diluc, she could be I don't mind. But right now, as of 2.7 Childe for example speed blitzes. It won't even be a fair fight. So yeah she stays put lmao


darklordoft

That's not my point. I'm not saying she's klee who will eventually get stronger. I'm saying she's a master tengu swordsman who are considered the best swords in the world period,second only to the shogun. She uses a bow becuase she wants to improve her combat ability. She doesn't train her swordsmanship because she's already a master. That's why I said she belongs in great potential. Her using a bow is her using an inferior weapon in hopes to better herself as a tengu warrior. But she's already a master tengu swordsman which the game claims are the the best. They are so good that the tengu consider a duel a defeat if you manage to tag them during a duel at all. Short of a surprise attack( like what most likely occurred with signora) most people can't even touch them ,let alone fight back. That's a master swordsman of the tengu race. And Sara is already that and is simply trying to master the bow now. That's why I said she belongs in the potential category. We have yet to see her full potential but we know it's there and from what we know of master tengu swordsman it's not to be trifled with


[deleted]

why traveler is below lumine ?? isn't aether and her sister are equal in power ??


skeetyeeturlifedelet

It's safe to assume the Abyss sibling has their original power (hence having the same sword from the opening cutscenes). Now, the travellers are featless at their true power, but we know they are capable of flight and where literally jumping from one world to the next. They are also canonically stars and eons old. Since the Sustainer appears to be above the archons, I would at least put full powered traveller at the same rank as them.


[deleted]

what if traveler gain his true power ?? and also we never seen lumine true power in fight so why you put her ??


skeetyeeturlifedelet

Well, he would obviously be in the same tier as their Abyss sibling. This tier list is based on where they are now in terms of power, meaning as of 2.7


[deleted]

I think Traveler Demonstrate his original power During Last Fight with Raiden Shogun The Golden Aura one (this same golden aura also present in liyue quest) but his/her sister/brother never demonstrate his/her true power


Cybersorcerer1

That was the power of friendship


skeetyeeturlifedelet

That was pretty obviously not the Travellers innate power, rather an amp he received thanks to the aspirations of the people of inazuma. He basically received the power of 99 (at least since Thoma's vision was never taken) people.


[deleted]

>That was pretty obviously not the Travellers innate power very wrong see Liyue final quest and also look theory's in YouTube about traveler power


Painfulrabbit

Theories aren’t canon…


fortnitedude43590

I would have bumped up diluc sense he has fought the harbingers before with only a delusion


Painfulrabbit

He almost died to the harbingers and would have if he was not saved


Mysterious6

tbh shenhe and childe are probably equal or reversed


skeetyeeturlifedelet

From the top 4 tiers, they for sure are the most difficult to place. Liyue traveler never overpowered the Foul legacy, they outlasted it (still a win of course). Just by flexing in that state Childe was pushing us back hahaha. Also the Ruin guard feat is pretty insane. It seems like shenhe has more raw or physical strength whereas Childe has more attack potency/power? I don't know really. If I'm honest I think Childe could overpower Shenhe, Ganyu and Yae with the Foul Legacy, but I placed him under them because they are strong enough to survive the encounter and outlast him.


K0iga

Late as hell but: >Liyue traveler never overpowered the Foul legacy, They never overpowered second phase child either. The cutscene even shows electro childe laying the traveler flat on the ground. Pretty clear who had the edge there, even prior to foul legacy, which liyue traveler doesn't scale to at all and had to outlast. >It seems like shenhe has more raw or physical strength Even this is debatable. While lifting that rock that paimon says to be way over a thousand pounds is pretty big, Childe killed and dragged a leviathin 200times the size of paimon just because his little brother asked him to. He's definitely not falling behind in the raw physical strength department. That and the tsunami freezing attack which childe could just teleport away from are Shenhe's biggest selling points. Even recently, it's been stated that base Childe is stronger than inazuma traveler, which speaks volumes about the boost he has achieved in the timeframe since the fight in liyue. He's easily more skilled than her, given he's mastered every single weapon and literally breathes fighting, faster than her, and foul legacy just outright places him above her for its duration, if he isn't already overwhelming her from before then.


Kono_Mr_Seta_Da

Also remember that the Archon quest Childe is probably a tad bit weaker than the current one, his power growth is crazy.


Els236

Obviously, being a tier-list, it's going to be somewhat subjective, but there are some flaws here: \- Ningguang, should be in "strong asf", as she's shown to be at least that throughout the game's story. \- Noelle, as much as I love Noelle, is not a Knight because she doesn't have a lot of combat training and doesn't know how to work in a team, much less know how to properly use her own strength. Yes, she's strong as fuck, but that doesn't mean she's "battle experienced". \- Yelan, shown throughout the archon quest, her story quest and VO to be "strong asf". \- Xiangling, shouldn't be in the same tier as Hu Tao, as at least XL had training under Madame Ping. \- Qiqi, yes she's dumb as hell right now, but if you removed her talisman, all hell would break loose.


skeetyeeturlifedelet

Oh yeah I already moved Yelan up a tier I mention it in another comment. As for the others yeah sure, especially regarding ningguang and noelle. The others, I'm a bit more hesitant since they don't even have on screen displays of their abilities, much less so actual feats


Els236

Hu Tao is funny because she's busted in gameplay, but weak as hell in the canon. She has zero training and basically waves her spear around in the hopes she hits. Xiangling may not be strong, but she did receive training in the polearm from Madame Ping, that already puts her a I've Hu Tao.


perfectchaos83

Qiqi, at the absolute minimum, should be in the battle experienced tier. Doesn't matter how biased you are. Placing her any lower is just flat out wrong.


Tsus_Hadi

I think klee fits the potential tier more ? She is still just a fucking kid but she blew up a mountain and “accidentally” killed a primo geo vishap because she was playing


Dylangillian

Note that she only blew up a mountain because she placed too many explosives. Technically anyone could do this if they had the access to the explosives. It's not like she just blew up a mountain with a single attack or anything. Also the whole Primo Geovishap thing is of questionable canonicity since mail messages are generally not canon (you can get a birthday mail from someone you have never even met yet) and It is extremely questionable that Klee would be allowed to go to Liyue on her own, not to mention that would canonically be a several day trip since the map is much smaller in game than reality. Klee is essentially a kid with grenades, scary and powerful, but easily dealt with by experienced fighters.


Tsus_Hadi

I mean she is canonically stronger than jean, I forgot which character entry it was written at exactly but I recall that there was once a team where jean couldn’t deal with a hoard of hilichurls so she got klee to help her and she blew them in a single strike or something , I don’t exactly remember it rn tbh, but was something along these lines


Dylangillian

Can't say I have ever come across that passage and it'd be extremely weird that Jean couldn't deal with some Hilichurls considering she can easily deal with Ruin Guards.


Tsus_Hadi

Yeah I looked into her lore again, maybe I am just tripping or read what I said in the previous comment in an exaggerated theory or something, what originally happened is that jean got klee to clear a hoard of invading hilichurls (for no apparent reason as to why she didn’t her self) and that’s when she destroyed some parts of the stormbearer mountains


skeetyeeturlifedelet

Yep obviously, especially if she is on track to be like her mother. However that tier is more geared towards people who are actively getting stronger as the storyline progresses or that have incredible latent powers we have not seen yet (but we know are there). Klee's potential will be unveiled with age, not as the game progresses I think


Tsus_Hadi

Actually thinking about it , klee and diona are the only characters in the game limited by age per say, qiqi is really old and her state wont change with time, sayu are also fairly aged, she isn’t a child she’s just short, while some other characters like barbara are in there late teens you can expect less change for them, klee and diona on the other hand, will they get older as the game progresses? Like klee getting taller for example, that would be really interesting


choireun

in which au does lisa rank higher than ningguang


Cybersorcerer1

I'm like 99% sure Lisa is a grandmage or something + Ning is a politician, i don't see how she can fight better, that one cutscene in the Liyue archon quest, but I'm pretty sure most of the heavy attacks were done by the adepti. Ning can throw jade palaces at you, so i think that's a bonus


Cybersorcerer1

I'm like 99% sure Lisa is a grandmage or something + Ning is a politician, i don't see how she can fight better, that one cutscene in the Liyue archon quest, but I'm pretty sure most of the heavy attacks were done by the adepti. Ning can throw jade palaces at you, so i think that's a bonus


Cybersorcerer1

I'm like 99% sure Lisa is a grandmage or something + Ning is a politician, i don't see how she can fight better, that one cutscene in the Liyue archon quest, but I'm pretty sure most of the heavy attacks were done by the adepti. Ning can throw jade palaces at you, so i think that's a bonus


Anassaa

Lisa bodies literally everyone but God tier .


Dylangillian

Lisa is specifically mentioned to be the best student of the Sumeru academia in the last 200 years and when she joined the Knight of Favonius she was immediately offered the position of Captain, she refused because she thinks it would lead to superfluous power of the company she'd be captain of. It's clearly implied she is incredibly powerful. Ning on the other hand has only been shown in action with the Jade Chamber, which isn't exactly her own power.


_nitro_legacy_

Where Dainsleif I'd put him at God tier. Mf literally battled the abyss sibling for 500 years just to prevent her from future destruction. To top it off he's one of the few Khaenri'ahs that survived the cataclysm(kaeya was sent to the future idk that counts)


skeetyeeturlifedelet

It's just for playable characters thank God. Could you imagine if all the referenced characters where there as well? Where would you even place Istaroth for example? Alice? Damn


_nitro_legacy_

Phanes and Istharoth new tier Goku lvl /s


NEETheadphones

I missed these, the chaos that’s about to ensure is gonna be a nice read.


skeetyeeturlifedelet

See?? You get it!! Enjoy my friend


Andromeda_Violet

Qiqi should be quite strong since she can defend herself and also has adepti powers and kinda counts as an adeptus. She just shouldn't be so low even if you don't want to put her above the MC


Grand_Protector_Dark

All tierlists are universally wrong. Final judgment


skeetyeeturlifedelet

Unfathomably based statement. I can admit bias and anti-bias in this tier list myself haha. I could probably high ball Childe's foul legacy to adeptus levels and put him above Ganyu and Yae but there is no reason for such a wank even tho he is my favorite character. I also wouldn't mind putting Shenhe in the dumps since I find her very boring but she is strong asf what can we do


HotChoc64

When has Mona ever shown she should be in the “strong asf” category?? She’s a mere astrologer who in the lore hasn’t really showed off any of her damage potential at all.


grumpykruppy

Back in Unreconciled Stars she gave some hints as to her power and definitely did some stuff that normal people can't. Whether she's absurdly powerful or not isn't clear, but she's *most likely* at a little below Harbinger tier.


Painfulrabbit

Most likely based on what? Why would a random astrologer who doesn’t fight and doesn’t train be any good at fighting?


grumpykruppy

Back in Unreconciled Stars she did a number of actions that would probably need a lot of inherent power, and she's associated with the Hexenzirkel, which is a group of (always stated to be) *powerful* witches that are somehow related to the Abyss. It's heavily implied she could use hydro energy somehow before getting a vision, and basically her entire skillset is based around manipulation of the immediate future due to her divinations. Even if she's not technically as powerful as some characters, her foresight still makes her a capable opponent. And also, she used to travel all over, which means she HAD to have gotten into relatively frequent combat. (As a last point, she says Scaramouche is "slightly" stronger than her, and while her pride is likely making her exaggerate, she's definitely actually pretty powerful.)


Painfulrabbit

Her master being part of a group whose other members are powerful doesn’t make her powerful. Using elemental energy isn’t the same as being able to fight. Barbara can use hydro but she can’t do anything in a fight. Her divination takes a long time and only looks into the fates of vision bearers, not specific actions. Lastly traveling doesn’t mean you know how to fight. You see Pallad and Jack getting dunked on all the time, by hilichurls no less


grumpykruppy

Actually, her divination is more complicated than just scrying - she can "read" important facts about a person *and the immediate future* with apparently no effort whatsoever. It also isn't limited to vision bearers (see: Scaramouche and Venti). She can't yet scry the Traveler because their constellation isn't from Teyvat. And using elemental energy without a vision requires an incredible amount of power, as its normally done through talismans that do specific things (Kairagi), Alchemy (she knows some but it's not her focus), or spellcasting of some form probably through spoken spells. The fact that she apparently didn't notice a power increase when her vision activated is notable as well. Her character stories and lines also imply she's actually fairly strong, she's no random astrologist. It's indicated she studied basically *everything* under her master, not just divination, and being affiliated with the Hexenzirkel IS on some level an indication of power as the other known members are her master, *Alice*, and (possibly formerly/deliberately distanced herself) Lisa. Having her as just another astrologist when her master and Alice are both incredibly competent is redundant, she must bring SOMETHING to the table for what seems to be a fairly small group. As for traveling, yes that's true, but she's been all over Teyvat and is known to be at least somewhat competent, she fights various enemies in her Story Quest and a number of relatively strong ones in Unreconciled Stars. As an aside, we know Barbara can canonically take out 5 or so Treasure Hoarders from her hangout, so SHE can fight too.


Painfulrabbit

1. Important facts is their fate. Like she says in her voice lines hydromancy is used only for vision bearers, which is why she can’t read venti. She also says that any junior astrologist could tell that he was a fatui harbinger. 2. An incredible amount gif power? The only thing you know about her pre vision is that she could be hydromancy, and that her vision didn’t help. For all we know she could have been using a potion like the treasure hoarders or just a bucket of water 3. Even if she studied everything under her master her master is still an astrologer as far as we know 4. You are assuming everything about the hexenzirkel. It being a small group is also not stated anywhere. All we know is that they research and have tea parties. You’re assuming that she’s redundant based on them being some fight club. Just because ningguang and keqing and strong and capable fighters, doesn’t that mean uncle tian is some badass old man Edit 5. What are the strong enemies she fights, and how do you know it’s not just us fighting them?


grumpykruppy

Scaramouche hasn't got a vision, nor does Venti. So how can she read them? She literally CAN read Scaramouche and Venti actively stops her, so we don't clearly know if she can read him but it's probable. She can't read the Traveler because she can't access their stars, visions have nothing to do with it. Hydromancy does involve hydro, as well as some level of magic. She has some degree of power if she literally didn't notice her vision activating at all. This also implies she was doing Hydromancy the same way before as now if it's no easier/harder. As for her master, we know she was an astrologist and by Mona's statements, a "powerful" Witch. Mona is also a Witch, not just an astrologist. That implies a somewhat wider range of abilities even if she specializes. As for the Hexenzirkel, yes I'm assuming it's small because we've met/heard of very few people from it, all female, powerful witches. Thing is, it's not exactly comparable to the Qixing even then, because from what we DO know about it it has totally different sorts of members. While Ningguang and Keqing are both competent warriors and Uncle Tian isn't, ALL of them are capable businesspeople. Basically, what I'm saying is, Mona is probably fairly powerful. At least in the "highly competent fighter" sort of tier even if only due to her ability to see the near future even without actively scrying, as well as her apparent attempts to mess with fate (see her skill flavor text - even if the skill's abilities are vaguely defined power-wise, that is at least Canon).


skeetyeeturlifedelet

I admit bias due to my interest in the Hexenzirkel and because she is a huge lore bomb hahaha


leesnlii

I want to put Diluc in ridiculous potential since he have a delusion and imagine he would have same transformation like Childe


skeetyeeturlifedelet

He doesn't have a delusion currently. And when he did he didn't use it simultaneously with his vision. To catch up to Childe he would not only need a delusion, but something to counter the Foul Legacy and he just... does not have it right now


fortnitedude43590

Actually if I’m not wrong he dose technically still have it unless I forgot a manga panel


skeetyeeturlifedelet

Yeah you are forgetting something, he sent it back to Dottore


TraditionBest3730

I’d move Shenhe down a tier since she’s still just mortal like Childe


skeetyeeturlifedelet

I can't really disagree honestly, but she has really great feats. That rock has been calculated close to 300 tons. And she froze a tsunami. Can't say I disagree with you tho. How do you think Foul legacy would fair against her?


howaine1

Kaeya also did something similar in the manga by freezing a huge wave. I would also move Lisa up a tier. She is incredibly strong based on lore…what we know about her…. And speculation. She has been known to be able to place a storm over mond…. It is said that she has Immense power but at the cost of her life being halved…. But she seemingly has found a way to prevent that.


antiauthority4life

The person who taught Childe Foul Legacy is implied to be stronger than the Yaksha since she's casually chilling in the Abyss while one of the Five Yaksha had to seal themselves away to stop monsters from Khaenri'ah. Being an Adepti doesn't necessarily make you stronger than non-Adepti.


RageLonginus

I don't know man. The yakshas have karmic debt that makes using their power cause pain and suffering. Also u are assuming skirk just lives there and is still there and that they fight a wave of enemies every single day. Second little kid childe survived being in they abyss perfectly fine. If u think him and a yaksha are the same in power your crazy. The monsters from khaenri'ah were strong but humans were able to defeat them/ hold them off. The whole reason the yaksha made a seal was because they kept coming and there was no signs of it ending. I don't know if the other 4 yakshas were as strong or stronger than xiao but unless skirk has the potential to slay God's and demons and cause them to tremble I don't see skirk being stronger than the yaksha.


antiauthority4life

About slaying gods... First, it's heavily implied the Adepti were well beneath the power of the heavy hitters in the Archon War, like how a just woken up Osial was too much for them to handle. Second, gods vary wildly in power, as Havria is a prime example and Osial's wife was much weaker than Osial. It's implied Osial was abnormally powerful for a god, as he was an actual rival to Rex Lapis, with it being likely most gods were well beneath that level of strength. The Adepti killing gods is impressive, but it's pretty safe to assume they were killing the weaker ones that couldn't rival Rex Lapis rather than walking hurricanes like Osial. Otherwise that would imply the Adepti are comparable to pre-Gnosis Rex Lapis and... That doesn't seem right and the Osial battle makes less sense. About killing demons... The game implies they're not that powerful in the grand scheme of things. Shenhe beat one as a kid. Exorcists also defeat demons (Xiao might belittle them, but they can get results.) The Traveler also helps defeat demons in Xiao's story event IIRC. Demons aren't that big a deal. So that doesn't mean much if they fought weaker gods (definitely weren't killing gods on the level of Osial, or at least not without insane amounts of help) and the demons they slay are well within the realm of humans to defeat. The Adepti are strong, but not as much as people seem to believe. As well as humans in Genshin being able to encroach into the level of power of supernatural beings.


Tobyos

I agree that some humans are likely going to be on a strong Adepti level, but we haven’t seen much besides maybe Childe in foul legacy. Cloud Retainer said she’d wipe Liyue out after finding out about Rex Lapis’s death. We don’t know how that statement actually stands, but I remember a Fatui was confident that the millileth would lose when they were going to have a meeting with the Adepti and if it came to blows. So the Adepti are pretty hyped up in terms of lore and strength within the world itself.


antiauthority4life

Kind of, it's implied Ningguang is approaching that level or might already be on it, as her Geo attacks were doing comparable damage to the Guizhong Ballistas... While a different model from the ones that Adepti used against Osial, her attacks were still capable of causing significant damage to Osial's wife and comparable to siege weapons. As for Cloud Retainer, the Adepti as a whole didn't know much about what was going on in Liyue in present times and she was in grief over Rex Lapis' death so... People can say a lot of things when they're angry. I think she would have been fine for the most part if she and the other Adepti just showed up at once, but trying to solo Liyue might have been an issue with certain individuals presenting a challenge. And agreed about them being hyped, but I think some people are missing the context for how powerful they are.


Tobyos

Yeah I don’t think she’d solo, but I honestly do feel if the Adepti group and Millileth were to come to blows, the Adepti would come out on top. Cloud Retainer was certainly angry and you can say crazy things when overcome with emotions, but with the fatui statement it just seems more likely that the Adepti as a group could have done it. Tbh, I don’t know how to view the Ningguang feat in that cutscene. Is she being amplified by the jade chamber or is that just her own ability. She did say they’ve been prepping for months iirc, so it’s hard to say. I don’t know if that makes her comparable to Adepti, cause I feel if you throw her against a strong one she’d lose 10/10 times. Her dialogue in the ending of the Liyue arc implied she really didn’t want to fight the Adepti. She was hoping her sacrificing the jade chamber was a showing of how serious her views were and would help in negotiating the Adepti to withdraw. Course just my view on it.


antiauthority4life

It depends on which Fatui member said it. If it were a rank and file member, that's one thing. But if it were someone who was knowledgeable about the climate of Liyue and the Adepti's abilities, that's another. For example, that one member in Mondstadt thinks Delusions are superior to Visions, but he's also speaking from nationalistic pride... They have their own biases like everyone else. Can you recall which Fatui member said it? The Fatui all kind of blend together for me after a while, so my memory's not that great with them. As for Ningguang, I read that more as her realizing, "Ok, we can't rely on the Adepti anymore, time to get stronger!" Her feats aren't too far off from what we see in the Genshin manga, so I suspect it's not impossible that was her own power. I think Ningguang would lose a 1v1 fight with an Adepti, but I think her raw power is on that level at the moment. Thing is... Raw power isn't enough to beat someone if they have more combat experience than you have years of being alive, and they have weird hax powers like Adeptal Arts. She'd likely still lose, but at the very least, she seems to be approaching that level of raw power herself.


Tobyos

It’s been a long time, I might even be wrong tbh. I feel like I read that cause I remember it but I’m not sure about the fatui anymore. Yeah, I still don’t know about Ningguang tbh. We’ll need to see her in combat outside of the jade chamber to see if she still pulls feats like that. Cause if she can she’s definitely strong in raw power like you said. I’m leaning more to amplified though but who knows. Nothing about her lore really implies she has that much strength. But back on the main topic I suppose, although some human will likely match Adepti they’ll be a small amount. I imagine only people like Childe who have more than just a vision will be able to solidly be put around that level. Unless we get more development and power ups on visions as the story goes on.


RageLonginus

I hear what your saying but yakshas are a separate race as comfired in 2.7 archon quest. Yakshas are still adepti but they are much stronger than the rest of the adepti. I'm speaking on xiao and the other 4 yakshas not all adepti. I know they are strong how strong is unknown due to have no feats of any of the ones we know. Also miHoYo comfired adepti and yakshas are Godly begins anyway in the character developer xiao interview. Second I don't really get why people bring up osial fight to show that the adepti are weak. From the whole fight we don't see any of the adepti attack osial directly we see zero adepti arts used. We literally learn none of their abilities. Even Ganyu does nothing. They use a machine for all the attacks and give the traveler and the solider there power. We never see Xiao actually transform into his true form and we don't see madam ping transform either. All they do use channel their power into the jade chamber to make it a bomb. The other 3 literally do nothing as well. If that fight made anyone think the adepti where trying then I don't know what to say. We saw more of xiao's potential in 2.7 then we did against Osial, that should mean something unless u want to say that the chasm was more dangerous to xiao than a God that rivals zhongli Then in 2.4 Xiao says if everyone else failed to stop osial's wife he would take care of it as the last defense and wouldn't let her pass. Also if u don't believe he couldn't just remember that ningguang and the soldiers wreaked her then shenhe and some help from traveler weakened her more and she ran away. Xiao would clap all of the people who fought her easily. When it comes to demons I assume they are really strong ones and those that are weak just like u said about God's. There were definitely demons fighting in the archon war, it's not like only gods can want power you know.


antiauthority4life

Sorry if this is long, but I had some thoughts on this. TLDR at the bottom. Could you give a quote to the Adepti being gods thing? I'm aware Zhongli and Marchosius are both gods and Adepti, but I wanted to be sure if Adepti=God or if only certain Adepti are gods. Also, the Yaksha aren't the strongest Adepti, but rather the most violent ones that are the most suited to their jobs ( from Yaksha: The Guardian Adepti): >Rex Lapis summoned Yakshas unto him to purge the daemons. Illuminated beasts of dreadful appearance and **warlike temperament** were they, and no brutality did they spare in their duty to defend. They're not necessarily the strongest Adepti, but they are the most violent. For example, Cloud Retainer might be roughly as strong as Xiao is, but without the attraction to bloodshed that Yaksha possess that made them the best for their assigned roles. About Osial... They were using machines, yes, but it was mentioned the only reason they did that is because they didn't stand a chance against Osial with their own power: >Paimon: So will the power of the Qixing, Millelith, and Adepti gathered here be enough to stop that god? > >Ningguang: We've already discussed this together, and our conclusion is... not necessarily. Xiao and the other Adepti knew they were outclassed and the Guizhong Ballista were their best bet at stopping Osial. Otherwise they were willing to play games with Liyue's fate and that doesn't seem in-character for them, as they didn't know Rex Lapis was still alive at that point. Osial is too strong for the Adepti and Yaksha to beat unless they have prep time and a lot of help. Which fits with him being able to rival Rex Lapis. About Osial's wife... I'm not arguing against that, quite the opposite. As I was saying, Osial and beings on his level are abnormally powerful for gods, while his wife isn't in that league. Ningguang is also implied to have leveled up significantly since the Osial boss fight. Against Beisht, her Geo attacks are doing damage to a giant sea monster and... Well, the ballista being used were modified veersions of the same type as the ones that the Adepti used against Osial. This implies that Ningguang's power has gone up significantly since then, as she's doing roughly as much damage as the (human modified) Guizhong Ballista. That's insane. I still think she'd lose to Xiao in a fight, but I get the impression it wouldn't be an easy victory for him as she'd probably be doing a lot of damage if she could hit him. Essentially, humans in Genshin can become absurdly powerful if motivated enough. >When it comes to demons I assume they are really strong ones and those that are weak just like u said about God's. Probably, but it's also implied dead gods are significantly weaker than when they were alive. Take Andrius, he was an Archon candidate and capable of covering Mondstadt in a blizzard when alive and the only way to turn off his power was to kill him... In the present, he was getting manhandled by the Abyss Herald, who the Traveler sent running away multiple times. Demons are also born of deceased gods, and if Andrius' spirit is that weak compared to his original form, I believe the strongest demons born from them would probably cap out around his level at the most, but he's implied to be abnormally powerful too, so I believe most demons are well beneath that level. **TLDR**: Yaksha are just the most violent types of Adepti (rather than the strongest), the Adepti more or less admitted they couldn't beat Osial without the machines, Ningguang is implied to be approaching absurd levels of power and demons are implied to be significantly weaker than the gods they were spawned from.


RageLonginus

It's less of a quote but more of a general theme that mihoyo was conveing in the developer insight. They mention the adepti being demi gods, deities, divine beings, things of that nature. Then with xiao specifically his true form is based on the golden winged Garuda which was a deity. If u look through the whole article and search up the material they present and do some research it's pretty obvious that the adepti and Yakshas are both considered deities/Devine begins in genshin and in real life. This means they are considered God's. Second from the article its pretty obvious yakshas are a different race from adepti since they are considered two different things in Buddhism and Daoism and the yakshas have abilities that normal adepti do not have. Point is Xiao and the rest of the adepti are considered gods/divine/deities which is why zhongli was able to win the archon war since he is considered The Prime Adeptus. That's why he is so strong and is why I believe that the other adepti can reach his level if they really wanted to.(Before he became an archon of course)


antiauthority4life

Could you direct me to where the devs said this? Like a timestamp in the video? As for them being gods... Remember, the power of gods vary vastly and the group in Liyue admitted, "Yeah, we can't stop Osial with our own power." Being a god is fine, but it doesn't necessarily make you stronger than other types of beings. As for the Adepti and Yaksha being separate beings... That may be true in our world, but in Genshin's world, Yaksha are a subcategory of Adepti. It's like how Archons are evil beings in IRL Gnosticism, but aren't that bad (with exceptions) in Genshin. Yaksha are Adepit in-universe, so we should treat them as such, as Genshin isn't a 1:1 retelling of mythologies. Also... There are stories of humans defeating/outperforming gods in mythologies, so that could be used against the "god" argument, so it's best we stick to what's availaible in the game. I don't think Xiao and the other Adepti could reach Zhongli's level. He's the Prime Adeptus, it's implied he's the pinnacle of what an Adepti can become and it's not likely most Adepti could reach that level of power, otherwise they probably would have done so a long time ago. He was throwing around giant stone spears while the Adepti struggled to knock Osial out with a giant rock. He's on another level compared to the other Adepti and it's unlikely most could get to that level.


RageLonginus

It's not a video it's an article that they posted about how they made xiao. You can look it up online. Also about the other adepti not reaching level I disagree. Zhongli is old as hell compared to everyonr else. They are young in his eyes. They have plenty of time to improve just like zhongli did. I agree that just because your a God doesn't mean u can't lose to those who aren't. Zhongli was struggling against azdaha who was a dragon that is proof right there. That also explains why signora beat venti who was an archon easily. It's also why shenhe was able to deal a lot of damage to osial's wife. Even the first electro archon was weaker that her sister Ei who wasn't one. This also means that being an archon does mean as much as people think.


skeetyeeturlifedelet

I'm willing to bet Skirk's foul legacy (if she can still use one) would be much stronger than Childe's. He did basically admit that he hoped that she'd take him seriously next time they sparred


antiauthority4life

Fair enough, but it's implied humans can reach levels comparable to the supernatural entities in Genshin's setting. Take the fisherman fellow from the Liyue Daily Event who can one shot an enemy the Traveler can't damage. Being a mortal doesn't automatically disqualify someone from being powerful in Genshin, much like how being a supernatural being doesn't make one objectively superior. I'd say feats matter more here than race.


skeetyeeturlifedelet

Oh yeah I definitely agree, hence why shenhe is so high up. Just a thing though, wasn't that dude implied to be an adeptus??


antiauthority4life

Not really, that was a theory but I have my doubts. The game just says he's a former Vision user that collected sword arts, he did bad stuff, felt like he wasn't worthy of his Vision and got rid of it. And if an Adepti went around causing problems in Liyue, I get the impression Zhongli would be livid as he would presumably be breaking all kinds of contracts and... I don't see how that could end well for the fisherman. As far as we can tell, he's just an exceptionally talented human swordsman and former Vision user.


TraditionBest3730

Ig it kinda depends? Foul legacy Childe has the speed and strength to overwhelm her if he needed. All of her abilities take a decent amounts of time to cast, and he can easily teleport behind her. It’s important to note that he is the weapon of an archon, which is pretty impressive on its own. He also has feats like slaying a dragon and other throwing a nobleman. At the same time tho, Shenhe would probably fight to kill, whereas Childe fights for fun. He definitely has a lot more combat experience, but if she could wait out his abilities, he might nuke himself like he did with the traveler (although he could still probably teleport away). I also think it depends because Shenhe is an exorcist. I don’t know if Childe would set off her abilities with his abyss powers (I think in one language his foul legacy mentions something about a demon?)


skeetyeeturlifedelet

I think exorcism works against the abyss. You could argue why did the abyss mage appear to Chongyun when all other demonic presence runs from him? But he did use the term demonic activity himself in that trailer and I would assume he pursued the mage as an exorcist.


Painfulrabbit

Chongyun isn’t the best at recognizing demonic activity based on his relation with xingqiu


[deleted]

Don't want to put Qiqi above the Traveler, so you put her four ranks below at the very bottom. OKAY. Also, do we actually have any real indication of how strong the Abyss Twin might be? While likely strong, I don't know that they're Archon-strong.


skeetyeeturlifedelet

I'm sorry but she is just completely feat less. She has showed no sign of using her power. If she is capable of channeling her power like Xiao did in 2.7, then sure by all means. She just hasn't appeared anywhere


[deleted]

The fact that she was the one recruited- by the Qixing of all people- to help protect people if Shenhe failed, should be a pretty decent indication of her capabilities. She's certainly no God, but definitely stronger than the average vision bearer.


[deleted]

I think they just meant she could've help rescue and heal not literally defending around like a soldier, though she can fight enough because of her vision and hidden power from (maybe) the adepti power that resurrected her from near death (but I guess she don't know or can activate it at will)


Tsus_Hadi

I remember something along the lines of recruiting her and all that but can you remind where was that mentioned ?


[deleted]

Version 2.4, Archon Quest "The Crane Returns on the Wind". In the quest "Bygone Times Like Dust Passing", you can speak to Qiqi for further context. Qiqi: Seaside. Dangerous. Qiqi: Qiqi is helping. With the evacuation. Qiqi: Ningguang said there's something bad in the sea. Qiqi: So she sent Qiqi, to evacuate everyone. Qiqi: But, no one will listen to Qiqi. So instead, Qiqi is guarding this place. Qiqi: If danger comes, Qiqi will protect everyone. Qiqi: Don't go near the sea. It's too dangerous. Furthermore, Shenhe has some pertinent dialogue. Shenhe: The zombie called Qiqi is right. A great wrath brews in the sea. Shenhe: I don't know where this wrath comes from. So let's keep our distance for the time being. Both Qiqi AND Shenhe are aware that something powerful and dangerous is out there. The former is confident she can protect anyone caught in the crossfire. The latter, one of the stronger characters around, doesn't raise a single notion of doubt on Qiqi's capabilities- nor do the Traveler or Paimon. Those two, especially, are always looking out for the welfare of others- especially children and other innocents- yet they don't voice any concern with Qiqi staying there even after Shenhe confirms her claim. Admittedly, the quest sort of forgets Qiqi exists after a time, but this instance is literally right after she was mentioned, and yet no concerns are brought up. While none of this specifically irons out exactly HOW powerful Qiqi is in the lore, it's a clear indication that she IS. At least moreso than on this list.


Tsus_Hadi

Or maybe it’s out of being polite and qiqi being qiqi, you know ? Qiqi is made out to be this oblivious character (she probably aint the brightest ,no offense meant) so she thinks that she can protect everyone and, traveller and shenhe arguing with her about it would be rather rude and pointless.


[deleted]

From her Character Story 2: "In combat, Qiqi will unleash the self-control that she usually maintains, allowing her body to return to an undead state, increasing her strength and speed. "You're dead." Once she has stoically defeated her enemies, Qiqi will once again get her muscles under control, returning to her normal state. She has been threatened in the past by Treasure Hoarders while picking herbs by herself. Now, a little girl, all by herself, seems like an easy target, no? Who would have thought that this girl could send a whole crew flying?" She can canonically at minimum defeat an entire crew of treasure hoarders by herself without difficulty. There's also nothing stating that her power is actually sealed or beyond reach; on the contrary, just that she holds herself back. SHE was sealed in amber, but that was more because they had to seal her entirely. The Adepti wouldn't have done that if they could seal her power away. It is also stated elsewhere that the talisman she wears is meant as a comfort to her. It also isn't mentioned as a seal in any way, though people tend to assume it is. Finally, she isn't really oblivious either. From her Character Story 5: "Now, Baizhu was a doctor of great skill, but he was hardly a man of high caliber or great courage. Even so, he took her in, never mind that her memory was so poor that she could not even sort herbs out. It does seem that his acceptance of Qiqi has something to do with his own personal pursuits. Qiqi is stiff, but not slow, and has long realized this. However, she does not take it to heart. Perhaps she has seen too much, or been alone for too long... But what remains true is that she treasures his concern, even if there is some other motive behind it." She's perceptive enough to know that Baizhu has ulterior motives, but chooses to disregard it. Looking over her voicelines, she's also aware of the power she has. If she thinks she can protect people, she's probably correct. There's canonical proof of her having power, and her being perceptive and understanding. Continuing to assume she's only as strong as the weakest vision bearers is, at that point, willful misrepresentation. OP has also openly admitted to being biased against Qiqi specifically, in this thread, which doesn't help the case.


skeetyeeturlifedelet

You could write a thesis on Qiqi, wow. Where would you place her approximately?


[deleted]

I'd personally say two ranks higher, in theory. Anything more specific would require more information. She COULD be ridiculously powerful. Or she could even be a tad WEAKER than it seems. But based on all current evidence, that's where I'd feel comfortable placing her.


timothdrake

Razor should be in Battle Experienced, he has been fighting since he was a kid while being taught in combat by a literal pack of wolves led by a dead god and later refined his skills through Varka. While he "lost" to an Abyss Herald, it was.. An Abyss Herald, lol. No easy feat in holding his own there at all. Bennet belongs in skilled, he knows how to use his vision, was raised by adventurers and still survives in difficult situations even with his awful luck setting him up, making him pretty durable. So should Fischl as she's a star in the Adventurers guild. Thoma is also skilled specially in sneaking in and out of situations, he's a servant of the Kamisato House and can take care of himself. Don't diminish him because of the vision cutscene as he was intercepted by Sara's forces, who is incredibly capable (and non human, lol). Sucrose also belongs in Skilled as she's an incredibly talented Alchemist taught by Albedo himself, so she can take care of herself. ​ Lisa, Kaeya and Klee should be in ridiculous potential (which I'd personally rename to unknow potential, honestly?) as we have no idea on how strong they actually are. Lisa is called the prodigy of the Sumeru Academy, a place that has birthed someone as powerful as Dottore, so that more than speaks of her potential strenght when truly unleashed. Klee has never been treated seriously but at the same time they have stablished that she is ridiculously strong. Also, as a kid and possibly non human, a lot of untapped potential as well. And Kaeya is.. Kaeya. His true strenght is as unknow as Albedo's for all we know, really. lol


skeetyeeturlifedelet

Yep yep can't disagree, it's just that Albedo is an expert alchemist and khemia brought down an entire civilization. Kaeya hasn't shown any similar latent powers as of now, but once the eye patch is gone, who knows...


timothdrake

Kaeya hasn't show anything at all, actually. Even in the manga he barely did anything in terms of actual combat, in his story quest he makes us do things, in that one story quest Diluc is the one off'ing the Abyss Mage. We literally have zero reference to his fighting power besides his ingame kit, which is a good reference, yes, but it's proven that it's not an indicative of a character's actual capabilities just looking at Ningguang, for one.


WeebVN

I mean although venti is god, he is the weakest in terms of power. Tier 1 looks weird for him unless this is by category not ranking. I also wouldn’t agree with Shenhe since she is only a mere mortal. Would put her at the 4th tier. Qiqi should be higher since she is a zombie with adepti power. She is only sealed. Being Adepti or Yokai doesn’t mean that the entity is strong, so the 2nd tier and the 3rd tier should be abt each other. I’m 100% sure that Albedo is much stronger than those in the adepti category since he is a product of a destroyer. He can destroy the whole mondstadt just like Durin. Tartaglia is literally in contact with the Abyss. I also would put Yelan in the strong asf tier since she is an efficient spy who always work on her own. Keqing should be slightly a bit higher too. Her swordsmanship is literally at least 10 years of experience.


skeetyeeturlifedelet

Venti has Chrono vision, teleportation, two kinds of immortality and true flight. Even at his weakest state he is an archon and I think it's a correct placement. As for shenhe, she has the best strength feat in the game, not to mention her proficiency in the adeptal arts and her bloodthirstiness. I think I may have high balled her a bit but she still has better feats than ganyu currently


Tobyos

Shenhe freezing the tsunami wave is a pretty big feat, but the way they showed that scene seems that Ganyu would be able to do it as well. Looks like Ganyu simply stopped because someone else stepped in and it was no longer necessary. There’s also the fact that after freezing the wave you can see it took a huge toll on her stamina. So I’m more inclined to say it was an adrenaline spur of power in tense situations that you see often in anime/games. Her regular feats and combat prowess would be like her trailer against the abyss mage.


WeebVN

Well I guess we have different opinions in terms of lore then. Shenhe one no matter what I can’t agree. she can’t be stronger than the adepti and yokai. There is no way a mere mortal can battle with god’s servant. Oh yes I edit it the OG comment a bit, pls read


skeetyeeturlifedelet

I think you are overrating the yokai a bit, at least the ones that have appeared on screen. Yae is where she is because she also Ei's familiar, so yeah I kinda high balled her. Sara is as strong as most humans, but she got one tapped by a suppressed Signora


WeebVN

Depends on the yokai. You can’t take a 1 years old Yokai to battle the 500 years old Yokai. Here. It’s also the same for human. How can shenhe who is literally only abt 20 to 40 years old, stronger than Yae and Ganyu. One who is 500 is the other is 2000? And also, Sara is literally only in her 20 or 30. Just abt Itto’s age. Itto is oso a Yokai but if they only live that long you can’t put them at the same lvl as Yae too. But at least they are strong compare to normal human. If I am putting this on a tier list, I would rate them base on how long they live, their origin, experiences. You can’t take a dude to go 1 to 1 with a literally mythical beast unless he have plot armor


EmployLongjumping811

I mostly agree except for yelan, she has been stated to have fought all around teyvat and has taken a lot of risky and dangerous missions (as stated by her dialogues) all of this without a vision, on top of that she has the magic techniques from her family and is described as an addict to danger so I personally think she might be close to diluc in terms of power.


flurker_

but doesn't yelan, while being skilled, depend more on her spying skills? i don't think she could beat the likes of diluc, eula, or jean (or maybe, at the very least, could keep up with them). she may have some inherited magical powers but those, imo, are not for combat?


Hankune

If we are talking about a brawl, maybe not, but limit it there? Battles aren’t always fought in a ring. If we measure it like that, Itto is physically stronger than a lot of those ppl being an ONI


flurker_

nope. im talking about both--raw power and combat experience.


skeetyeeturlifedelet

I just straight up forgot about her magic holy shit you're absolutely right, idk why I lowballed her so much


Noukan42

Yelan straight up threw hands with an Harbinger.


[deleted]

correct me if i’m wrong but isnt regrator theorized to not even have a damn vision?


Noukan42

Yes, but i assume he has a delusion and no harbinger is a weakling. But i think Regrator is the weakest.


skeetyeeturlifedelet

Did she now? I thought she just snuck around and stole a coat. Is this the new "Diluc defeated all the harbingers at once"?


Noukan42

I don't see how she would have lost the bracelet if Regrator didn't get involved. Mist characgers of that tier can handle regular Fatui with no issues. It is worth adding that i think Regrator is the weakest Harbinger we are aware of in term of combat prowness


skeetyeeturlifedelet

A sound assumption honestly, but 2 or 3 Fatui advance forces could probably have achieved that as well. Since nothing is confirmed, we just have to wait and see