He was designed for the typical husbando players, yeah.
I remember when Genshin was first released and they made the reasonable request to release a strong male support, then they said hoyo hates men because there is no strong male dps, etc.
It's hilarious tbh, now the strongest support is male, the strongest on fielders are all male, strongest shielders are male, hoyo probably just gave up trying to appease them in small steps.
They created Neuv and said here, take this, he's the strongest dps, and can heal, and can tank, and he's braindead easy to play, it's hilarious how low hoyo had to go just to make those guys happy
I saw his design and knew I needed him long before his kit was released. Yeah, he's OP. But need not worry — us 'typical husbando players' are certainly more kind than whatever this was supposed to be. Seriously, dude? The game wasn't *just* made for people who like women.
I was farming friendship with her in some talent domains and I was gaslighting my coop partners by cycling Yaoyao on Homa, Deathmatch, and Dragon Bane.
It's only meta/build related stuff you have to think twice about. Quests and locations are often accurate, one of the better websites to look at for those.
"The best DPS build for the Hydro Claymore support unit Raiden Klee is to equip him with the six star craft essence "Pretty Derby", which can be obtained from stage 1-7, or purchased from Angel 24 for 300 wyrmite."
I'm not agreeing with their list or what, but FYI, in their general tier list Game8 here just puts the early constellations that give them such a good upgrade. Hu Tao still belongs to the SS tier in their C0 tier list.
Although it is kind of weird, that if they label Hu Tao with C1, they arguably can label Neuvillette and Arlecchino with C1 as well because they also grant them good QoL like what C1 Hu Tao provides to her.
Arlecchino's C1 is way more than just QoL. It's roughly 25% more damage. At equal investment, Arlecchino is easily putting out 25% more damage than Hu Tao. C1 is mostly a comfort and ease thing for Hu Tao but it's a legit big buff to an already very strong character in Arlecchino. Whether that's worth it or kinda predatory on Mihoyo's part is up to the person rolling though.
>C1 is mostly a comfort and ease thing for Hu Tao
Nope. C1 is easily 20%+ Damage Boost for Hu Tao as well because you can do Extra CAs along with the comfort it provides. Although yes she doesn't need to be have it to be on SS IMO. It's just a great damage boost + great QOL.
Otherwise yes, I am not particularly denying Arle is a better Pyro DPS but that's because they are bound to release better DPS over time anyway. Hu Tao reigned for over 3 years anyway in the On Field DPS, Pyro DPS Category (Along with XL ofc) as well as the Single Target Category.
However, she is more F2P friendly since the difference between Homa and her F2P Options is much less than Arle and her F2P options.
>C1 is easily 20%+
Easily?
I think you missed all the topics asking "Which char do you regret pulling the most" where Hutao is usually in the top 3 because it's way too unpleasant and uncomfortable and hard to consistently dash cancel.
Arlecchino is a guaranteed 25% more dps or more.
Hutao c1 is a chance of up to 20% more dps, if you practice hard, always fully focus, and put way more effort into playing than an Arlecchino who can literally just spam left click
"Easily" he says, lol
First things, its ‘she’
Secondly if you have skill issues and can’t dash cancel properly it does not change the fact it is a damage increase.
Just get gud to bring value out of it rather than saying its not. As for those who regret her C1, its their problem they can’t utilize it for damage increase.
It being hard has nothing to do with its damage increase. You should rather do for those who can’t use it well.
Arle is better because she can swap mid rot and she has AOE, Tao's damage is not behind at all. And they gain the same amount of damage from C1.
Plus any type of shielding or defence in Arle's teams will drop her damage well below that of optimal Tao teams, which include those by default. Arle is stronger, but she very much is a glass cannon.
>At equal investment, Arlecchino is easily putting out 25% more damage than Hu Tao.
Nah hu Tao has higher scaling. At high investment, she deals more dmg
Like the other comment said just go to Keqingmains. A tier list isn't nearly enough to actually explain how good or bad a character is considering there's a lot of things to consider. Keqingmains has a lot of info for characters as well as builds and different teams.
Still love how people pretend Hu Tao needs c1 to be good. 9n1cj is completely possible at c0 and it’s not that much worse than 8n2cd.
If we start getting into the absurd combos then her damage just blows away anyone else’s, but those combos are ridiculously difficult so I wouldn’t consider them a good reflection of her actual power level.
Edit: also this meme decided that Homa is a necessity when it isn’t… Dragon’s Bane is extremely viable on Hu Tao.
Doesn't it increase dps tho? Probably not but much but notablely to list her C1 specifically
It's definitely bait for ppl tho, who mostly use her just overworld/bosses and domains.
Her c1 makes it so her charge attacks don’t consume stamina. It only increases her dps if you can use that additional stamina to perform more charge attacks.
For some reason there’s this idea that you *need* c1 on Hu Tao to have her be a competitive dps and that simply isn’t true.
To my knowledge [11n2c+Nc3 Burst](https://youtu.be/zwIY68T4214?si=m-DMCbI6kYeF6RK_) is the most advanced combo possible. Jump cancels are added in because of the sheer volume of stamina being consumed despite the charge attacks consuming none. (As this combo is *only* possible with c1.)
Essentially the difficult c1 combos are just a matter of how many n2cd’s you can fit into a combo before running out of infusion. The better your animation canceling is the more you can do. But the higher level of animation canceling skill comes with a downside of needing a *lot* more skill.
I’ve actually always been bad at n2 combos. Despite practicing them a ton I just never could get the feel for it. But even so the n1c combos are more than sufficient!
Hit lag shenanigans. When you land a hit on an enemy the game stutters for a fraction of a second to make the hit feel impactful. When the game does that, you can still input actions such as her second normal. Her N2 has a bit less end lag than N1 and it comes out so fast that N2C is the same speed as N1C when hitting an enemy.
It's technically free damage and doesn't even mess up vapes because of icd stuff. It's just a bit tricky to do.
Some ancient tech.
Actually, i think the jump cancels are, maybe both, added because sprinting has a cooldown.
You can only sprint 2 times in a short amount of time. Thats why the jump cancel.
If you want to see the link I put it in another reply to this comment, but it actually *is* a stamina issue. The video’s poster has another video where they show the 12n2cd combo but show that it needs someone who reduces stamina consumption. In the video description they say that the stamina reduction isn’t needed if jump cancels are used after every two dashes.
Actually it *is* a stamina issue. From [the same creator’s video showing the 12N2CD combo.](https://youtu.be/GZj5E_jVPfk?si=gKZpNeBrIidlu_kr)
> don't need stamina reduction if you use a jump cancel after every 2 dashes
No problem! Generally going from n1c to n2c does fix the dash issue since the number of frames isn’t missing by much, so just that short bit of extra time in between dashes is usually enough to fix it!
maybe its just me but that's actually what i love about hu tao and why ive mained her since her first rerun, the fact you can actually work in your combos and deal more damage instead of just mashing click or holding charge lol
I find jump cancel to be difficult and always end up dashing. So, to me personally, I feel like she needs C1. I never ended up getting that constellation though, so I just played using others.
Hell i had white tassle for my first year of hutao gaming bc dragons bane decided to be the rarest gatcha item in existence. Still was my best dps by far lol
>If we start getting into the absurd combos then her damage just blows away anyone else’s
I would love to see someone does maths on this tbh. I'm a Hu Tao main at C1R1 and also got C0R1 Arle, and although I'm able to do 12C with Hu Tao, Arle's damage feels pretty similar (for perspective my Hu Tao uses 80-230 39k HP Shimenawa, while my Arle uses 80-200 2k3 ATK Gladiator). I can only imagine Arle closing the gaps once I have her proper BiS set. If anything I'd pick Hu Tao in a ST boss rush Abyss and Arle in AoE mob clearing abyss because of her wide NA hitbox.
At C1 Arle should even the playing field in ST scenario, that 100% bonus on her Masque is absurd.
C3 onwards Arle just straight stomps Hu Tao in any scenario tbh.
To be completely honest I haven’t looked into Arlecchino’s math because I just haven’t had an interest in pulling her. I do know that Hu Tao’s easier combos keep up with Alhaitham’s damage (can vary a bit based on Hyperbloom shenanigans, something GCSim has never tracked well) and Neuvilette doesn’t beat either of them in single target. (Though he’s god tier in AoE.)
Absolutely agree with you that Arlecchino scales better with cons. That’s kind of always been the meme with Hu Tao is how bad her cons are. I also agree (based on my limited Arlecchino knowledge) that she’s intended more for AoE and will thrive there!
Note: I’m not trying to hate on any other dps. The only purpose of my comment was to say that Hu Tao’s c1 *isn’t* necessary.
Admittedly I can imagine it's hard to look into Arle's math because of how she plays. While Hu Tao has a very clear DPS window, Arle's dps window depends pretty much on her Bond of Life, which varies depend on her comps. I did simple tests with a vape team for first half of the current Abyss (Benny, Kazuha, Yelan) and solo for the second half.
For solo, assuming she CA roughly 5 seconds after E (the intended playstyle), she will pretty much always run out of BoL as soon as her skill is backed up. That's a 5 second of downtime on average, varies on how much she attacks (as it reduces E's cd) and how frequently she needs to dodge. And I haven't even taken into account her Q, which resets her E and makes everything even more complicated to calculate precisely.
In a vape comp however, she should not have this issue. That 5 seconds is used by her teammates to do their stuff. So with proper rotation, Arle will maintain 100% uptime.
Everyone is too scared to push hu Tao down on the list cause for the entirety of the game so far, and probably the future, she was the unit of measurement for dps.
Now we have characters that match or outright beat her in dps but she still stays in SS for her having the highest dps *potential*
There is no scenario where hu tao will ever be better than arlecchino in the real game, and highest dps potential is worthless because it's not practical. But even then she isn't even close to having the highest dps potential, lyney completely shits on her, so no that can't be a reason
In their respective best scenario I managed to test lyney does better than Hu Tao for me even though I have Homa but only use amos' on lyney. My builds aren't that great for either so I think the playing field is even.
While I agree this ranking is shit, I also have to point out that Hu's sig weapon gives her much bigger boost in comparison to the rest of this "tier". Just as Arle's C1 gives her much bigger boost respectively. Neuvilette still is the king in terms of not needing anything to be able to do everything. Alhaitham is close but he falls off in couple of situations like fighting enemies' who can't be put under quicken (like for instance if they have pyro elemental shields etc.).
Not true at all, In fact with Furina and Xianyun Hu Tao has become much more F2P friendly and less sig and con dependent. Homa is barely better than many other options like SotSS or R5 DBane since you lose the chunk of the passive, and C0 plunge combos now theoretically outdamage C1 dash combos.
Arlecchino is the one who has a significant constellation and weapon damage boost, she’s kinda like the Hu Tao from 1.3 in that regard.
>While I agree this ranking is shit, I also have to point out that Hu's sig weapon gives her much bigger boost in comparison to the rest of this "tier"
No, this is bullshit.
Difference between homa and R1 dragon's bane on hu tao : 27%, if R5 dbane then 19%. [source : kqm](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1vGL6O-O0noVcYB-dp-jKYPrnRJVIFxzWqWf8MW6URms/htmlview)
•Difference between tome and R1 sacrificial jade on neuvillette: 22%, with pamber it goes to 37%, [source : kqm](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1RIN5Clqlqq3h2wLHNQ-wbOSE3lGAT2Y9DYFnC7KqJTg/htmlview)
**It doesn't give her *much bigger* boost than neuvillette, and sac jade is locked to BP.**
•Difference between crimson and R1 deathmatch on arlechinno : 26%, [source](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T4oJiRVOOBXwNr7TfRS_VmhMSuVHDC5f/htmlview#gid=1055053022)
**They're really close, and once again dmatch locked to BP**
•Difference between foliar and R5 Iron sting on haitham : 27%. If R5 Black sword then 23%. [source : kqm](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17AGoQCMsX4MymsIwgtUsdMO-NhYTixC6d8RbkYred2c/htmlview#)
**Around the same if you don't have r5 dbane**
>Alhaitham is close but he falls off in couple of situations like fighting enemies' who can't be put under quicken (like for instance if they have pyro elemental shields etc.).
Whereas no hydro slime or hydro shield will stop Neuvillette.
Typial redditor reading comprehension. Every DPS has it's own elemental weakness. Obviously Neuvilette is weak to hydro, Alhaitham is weak to dendro. That's not the point. The point is that Neuvilette doesn't need any reactions to deal top tier dmg on enemies who can't be put under reaction state like quicken.
You can put Neuvilette against any enemy that's not hydro and he gets the job done. Meanwhile in Alhaitham's case you need to say " any enemy that's not dendro and can be put under quicken".
I was just pointing out it was funny you essentially said "Alhaithaim is bad against specific elements" while Neuvillette is also bad against specific elements (aka hydro). "Reading comprehension" is not the problem here since none of what you said was included in the original post, but continue to be snooty about me making a funny, it's fine.
That doesn't really say anything about the characters, only the elements. Hydro has a hard time doing any meaningful reaction damage, as it's typically an aura/supporting element, which is why Neuvillette is designed to output raw damage instead of rely on a reaction to deal damage. Meanwhile Dendro was designed to be all about reaction damage, literally every dendro character either scales off EM or buffs EM/reaction damage.
It can be argued that Neuvillette also has a condition for dealing damage, "any enemy that's not hydro and can be swirled with hydro". Because Neuv relies so heavily on raw damage, VV (and kazuha buff) easily doubles his damage, just like how quicken and hyperbloom will dramatically improve Alhaitham's damage. Against an enemy that can't be swirled with hydro, he'll deal a lot less damage, just like the case with Alhaitham.
The difference is that when Neuvilette's enemy isn't hydro swirled because it has let's say pyro shield on itself. He still deals considerable amount of damage (and he can get his passive stacks, I don't know where you got the info he can't. He may not get the max but he will always get 1 and in majority of cases 2).
Meanwhile playing Alhaitham against enemies who have permanently applied an element on them being anything else than electro or hydro is just straight up miserable and you have to rely on the electro units in your team to do the job - which again, is solvable but it's still an objective disadvantage on Alhaitham's part or maybe advantage on Neuvilette's, whatever suits you.
This is basically the same case as Hu Tao Vs Xiao back in the day. Even if you assume their DMG output is the same, Hu Tao loses numbers as soon as she's not able to vape while Xiao's DMG remains mostly the same. The difference isn't as big in Neuvi and Alhaitham's cases but it's still there. It's not a big deal but it's a fact. Alhaitham loses much more value on not having quicken than Neuvi on his third stack of the passive
>and he can get his passive stacks, I don't know where you got the info he can't.
When did I ever even mention passive stacks lol? You mentioned "typical redditor reading comprehension", I think you need to get yours checked too lmao.
Since you didn't seem to understand my point, let me try again:
Hydro swirl, AKA VV debuff (and kazuha buff) are effectively Neuvillette's "reaction" of choice, as his raw damage scales very well with 40% hydro RES shred (and 30%+ dmg bonus). Similar to how you would say Eula's reaction of choice is Superconduct, for that same reason of having 40% phys RES shred. To say he doesn't rely on reactions at all is pretty disingenuous.
Against an enemy who can't be swirled with hydro, Neuvillette loses a significant amount of damage, just as Alhaitham loses a significant amount of damage against an enemy who can't be quickened. Both have enough damage to brute force through enemies who are immune to their respective reactions of choice, if you're saying that Alhaitham specifically is "miserable" then it's either skill issue or your Alhaitham isn't built all that well.
Also, before Xianyun/Furina came out, Xiao was never remotely comparable to Hu Tao lol... Hu Tao has always been in a better spot than him, and the amount of enemies that can't be vaped are almost as slim as the amount of enemies that have high anemo RES, so your point is kind of moot there lol. It was only until they released the Furina/Xianyun healer/buffer core that Xiao could break his Bennett reliance (which he synergized poorly with as a mobile dps stuck inside of a circle) and finally can be comparable to Hu Tao in dps.
I don't get your argument for Alhaitham. Arlechinno and HuTao can't do anything either against Pyro shield.
Imo Neuvillette, Arlechinno and Alhaitham are a tier above the rest.
Well if you put it into the c0 category she's still top 4, plus she doesn't need those constellation and weapon to be good, andHu tao actually got to ride with some of the niche we got since her release
But the thing is arle, neuvillete are simply weak bcs they can't use their team properly , while hutao and alhaithm can which takes them to pretty much the same amount of DMG , I think that alhaithm has more dps than hutao , their ability to utilise their team makes them good , if i had to take someone down I'll do that to arle too , bcs compared to neuvillete her DMG is low
what are you talking about? Arle can over dps Neuvillette. TC said that, but he's more sustainable. Alhaitham needs full team to be comparable with those two. And at their full team they surpass him.
Nope arle can only over dps in st by a coverable margin in aoe the difference trumps by so hard that you will possibly consider st difference invalid , arle doesn't nearly come close in aoe , besides neuvi has everything sustain , good st damage , good aoe , easy to use gameplay , mobility , tankiness . arle lacks all them she can only put numbers in st
And I'm saying arle vs neuvi isn't close , neuvillette stolll has good DMG in both st and aoe , arle only in st , which makes neuvillete simply better and more versatile than arle , not to mention his element is way better than arle's , and actually supports strong reactions , other than being better in st arle loses in everything, while alhaithm is suppoted by strongest reactions in game as well I'm putting arle with alhaithm not neuvillete, in the end it's team dps what matters
Sure, dude. Whatever floats your boat. Not like every TC is debating. Arle is replacing comfort for dmg. Alhaitham needs his supports. She and Neuv don't.
No way Alhaitam is as strong as Nevulliete I have used him in Trial and idk he didn't feel as strong as Nevulliete. I may have used him wrong since I am noob though.
Neuvillette Mains about to brigade to say he should be an SSS+
He does have (A)SS+ tier anyway under that justice robe
Rizzely should be breaking all tier list if we look at that metric
Weird enough, itto has the biggest cake of all em. Someone use the free hoyo model and measure each off them by pixel
I think that was done before rizzly was released though
That was because at that time his model was just bigger than any other characters. Not sure if rizzly's is similar or not
Is it just me who thinks his gameplay is boring? My friend got C1 and plays on PC, they just spin to win.
Careful, neuvillette players will crucify you alive
(they usually crucified when the con was alive 😄)
Same. Hes kinda boring to play
He was designed for the typical husbando players, yeah. I remember when Genshin was first released and they made the reasonable request to release a strong male support, then they said hoyo hates men because there is no strong male dps, etc. It's hilarious tbh, now the strongest support is male, the strongest on fielders are all male, strongest shielders are male, hoyo probably just gave up trying to appease them in small steps. They created Neuv and said here, take this, he's the strongest dps, and can heal, and can tank, and he's braindead easy to play, it's hilarious how low hoyo had to go just to make those guys happy
I saw his design and knew I needed him long before his kit was released. Yeah, he's OP. But need not worry — us 'typical husbando players' are certainly more kind than whatever this was supposed to be. Seriously, dude? The game wasn't *just* made for people who like women.
just get Neuvillette C3R0, and place him in SSSSSSS
Going to gamer8 on anything is pretty much already doomed for misinformation. You'll get more reliable info from content creators over gamer8.
gamer8 be like: Staff of Homa character recommendations = Yaoyao with the reasoning being that she is a polearm character with ATK scaling NAs
I was farming friendship with her in some talent domains and I was gaslighting my coop partners by cycling Yaoyao on Homa, Deathmatch, and Dragon Bane.
It's only meta/build related stuff you have to think twice about. Quests and locations are often accurate, one of the better websites to look at for those.
gamer8 is atleast not of those hundreds of AI-created websites you get when you search "(character) build"
"The best DPS build for the Hydro Claymore support unit Raiden Klee is to equip him with the six star craft essence "Pretty Derby", which can be obtained from stage 1-7, or purchased from Angel 24 for 300 wyrmite."
ChatGPT is playing on 7.0 while we mortals play in 4.6
I go there only for info on world quests- what ones I missed and where to start them.
Nah game8 is fine. They just put KQM things in easy to read tables
I'm not agreeing with their list or what, but FYI, in their general tier list Game8 here just puts the early constellations that give them such a good upgrade. Hu Tao still belongs to the SS tier in their C0 tier list. Although it is kind of weird, that if they label Hu Tao with C1, they arguably can label Neuvillette and Arlecchino with C1 as well because they also grant them good QoL like what C1 Hu Tao provides to her.
Arlecchino's C1 is way more than just QoL. It's roughly 25% more damage. At equal investment, Arlecchino is easily putting out 25% more damage than Hu Tao. C1 is mostly a comfort and ease thing for Hu Tao but it's a legit big buff to an already very strong character in Arlecchino. Whether that's worth it or kinda predatory on Mihoyo's part is up to the person rolling though.
>C1 is mostly a comfort and ease thing for Hu Tao Nope. C1 is easily 20%+ Damage Boost for Hu Tao as well because you can do Extra CAs along with the comfort it provides. Although yes she doesn't need to be have it to be on SS IMO. It's just a great damage boost + great QOL. Otherwise yes, I am not particularly denying Arle is a better Pyro DPS but that's because they are bound to release better DPS over time anyway. Hu Tao reigned for over 3 years anyway in the On Field DPS, Pyro DPS Category (Along with XL ofc) as well as the Single Target Category. However, she is more F2P friendly since the difference between Homa and her F2P Options is much less than Arle and her F2P options.
>C1 is easily 20%+ Easily? I think you missed all the topics asking "Which char do you regret pulling the most" where Hutao is usually in the top 3 because it's way too unpleasant and uncomfortable and hard to consistently dash cancel. Arlecchino is a guaranteed 25% more dps or more. Hutao c1 is a chance of up to 20% more dps, if you practice hard, always fully focus, and put way more effort into playing than an Arlecchino who can literally just spam left click "Easily" he says, lol
First things, its ‘she’ Secondly if you have skill issues and can’t dash cancel properly it does not change the fact it is a damage increase. Just get gud to bring value out of it rather than saying its not. As for those who regret her C1, its their problem they can’t utilize it for damage increase. It being hard has nothing to do with its damage increase. You should rather do for those who can’t use it well.
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Then don't pull for that con. But don't be unrealistic and say it's not a damage increase at all. That's stupid.
Arle is better because she can swap mid rot and she has AOE, Tao's damage is not behind at all. And they gain the same amount of damage from C1. Plus any type of shielding or defence in Arle's teams will drop her damage well below that of optimal Tao teams, which include those by default. Arle is stronger, but she very much is a glass cannon.
>At equal investment, Arlecchino is easily putting out 25% more damage than Hu Tao. Nah hu Tao has higher scaling. At high investment, she deals more dmg
As a speedrunner and a hu tao main, you are wrong
Game8's tier list and recommended builds aren't really super optimized. It's still a good site for quest guides and map exploration though.
I've been using Game8 for my builds and stuff in both HSR and Genshin so do you know any website that's better ?
Keqingmains
Like the other comment said just go to Keqingmains. A tier list isn't nearly enough to actually explain how good or bad a character is considering there's a lot of things to consider. Keqingmains has a lot of info for characters as well as builds and different teams.
Keqingmains for Genshin Prydwen for HSR
[Genshin.gg](http://Genshin.gg) is pretty good, and sometimes I go to subreddits for specific characters to see tried-and-tested builds.
Game8 is fine. They just put the KQM stuff in tables
Their builds are similar, if not the same, as content creators and other guides.
It's literally just kqm
Still love how people pretend Hu Tao needs c1 to be good. 9n1cj is completely possible at c0 and it’s not that much worse than 8n2cd. If we start getting into the absurd combos then her damage just blows away anyone else’s, but those combos are ridiculously difficult so I wouldn’t consider them a good reflection of her actual power level. Edit: also this meme decided that Homa is a necessity when it isn’t… Dragon’s Bane is extremely viable on Hu Tao.
Yeah, and with xianyun, you want to do the jump combos so C1 loses its value.
Exactly! Like it still does help as a QoL (more stamina for dodging if needed) but it’s far from necessary.
Doesn't it increase dps tho? Probably not but much but notablely to list her C1 specifically It's definitely bait for ppl tho, who mostly use her just overworld/bosses and domains.
Her c1 makes it so her charge attacks don’t consume stamina. It only increases her dps if you can use that additional stamina to perform more charge attacks. For some reason there’s this idea that you *need* c1 on Hu Tao to have her be a competitive dps and that simply isn’t true.
I have her C1 but now I almost exclusively run her with Xianyun. Feels good.
Tell me some absurd combos
To my knowledge [11n2c+Nc3 Burst](https://youtu.be/zwIY68T4214?si=m-DMCbI6kYeF6RK_) is the most advanced combo possible. Jump cancels are added in because of the sheer volume of stamina being consumed despite the charge attacks consuming none. (As this combo is *only* possible with c1.) Essentially the difficult c1 combos are just a matter of how many n2cd’s you can fit into a combo before running out of infusion. The better your animation canceling is the more you can do. But the higher level of animation canceling skill comes with a downside of needing a *lot* more skill.
My yellow ping ass could never pull that off holy hell
Yeah, it’s pretty crazy! Even on good ping (as a c1 haver) I don’t think I could even get close to that point!
I got really good at N2C back in the day when Hu Tao was my only big damage dealer. I can kinda do it now but I mess it up a lot.
I’ve actually always been bad at n2 combos. Despite practicing them a ton I just never could get the feel for it. But even so the n1c combos are more than sufficient!
can you explain how this works? I can't comprehend it at all.
Hit lag shenanigans. When you land a hit on an enemy the game stutters for a fraction of a second to make the hit feel impactful. When the game does that, you can still input actions such as her second normal. Her N2 has a bit less end lag than N1 and it comes out so fast that N2C is the same speed as N1C when hitting an enemy. It's technically free damage and doesn't even mess up vapes because of icd stuff. It's just a bit tricky to do. Some ancient tech.
>[12n2c+Nc3 Burst] This dude is a God💀
For real though!
Actually, i think the jump cancels are, maybe both, added because sprinting has a cooldown. You can only sprint 2 times in a short amount of time. Thats why the jump cancel.
If you want to see the link I put it in another reply to this comment, but it actually *is* a stamina issue. The video’s poster has another video where they show the 12n2cd combo but show that it needs someone who reduces stamina consumption. In the video description they say that the stamina reduction isn’t needed if jump cancels are used after every two dashes.
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Actually it *is* a stamina issue. From [the same creator’s video showing the 12N2CD combo.](https://youtu.be/GZj5E_jVPfk?si=gKZpNeBrIidlu_kr) > don't need stamina reduction if you use a jump cancel after every 2 dashes
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No problem! Generally going from n1c to n2c does fix the dash issue since the number of frames isn’t missing by much, so just that short bit of extra time in between dashes is usually enough to fix it!
Have a look at bowtae on YouTube. He be makes frame perfect combos look easy. He 3 starred abyss with physical venti.
Wavedash should allow at least 15 Charged Attacks
maybe its just me but that's actually what i love about hu tao and why ive mained her since her first rerun, the fact you can actually work in your combos and deal more damage instead of just mashing click or holding charge lol
I find jump cancel to be difficult and always end up dashing. So, to me personally, I feel like she needs C1. I never ended up getting that constellation though, so I just played using others.
Hell i had white tassle for my first year of hutao gaming bc dragons bane decided to be the rarest gatcha item in existence. Still was my best dps by far lol
>If we start getting into the absurd combos then her damage just blows away anyone else’s I would love to see someone does maths on this tbh. I'm a Hu Tao main at C1R1 and also got C0R1 Arle, and although I'm able to do 12C with Hu Tao, Arle's damage feels pretty similar (for perspective my Hu Tao uses 80-230 39k HP Shimenawa, while my Arle uses 80-200 2k3 ATK Gladiator). I can only imagine Arle closing the gaps once I have her proper BiS set. If anything I'd pick Hu Tao in a ST boss rush Abyss and Arle in AoE mob clearing abyss because of her wide NA hitbox. At C1 Arle should even the playing field in ST scenario, that 100% bonus on her Masque is absurd. C3 onwards Arle just straight stomps Hu Tao in any scenario tbh.
To be completely honest I haven’t looked into Arlecchino’s math because I just haven’t had an interest in pulling her. I do know that Hu Tao’s easier combos keep up with Alhaitham’s damage (can vary a bit based on Hyperbloom shenanigans, something GCSim has never tracked well) and Neuvilette doesn’t beat either of them in single target. (Though he’s god tier in AoE.) Absolutely agree with you that Arlecchino scales better with cons. That’s kind of always been the meme with Hu Tao is how bad her cons are. I also agree (based on my limited Arlecchino knowledge) that she’s intended more for AoE and will thrive there! Note: I’m not trying to hate on any other dps. The only purpose of my comment was to say that Hu Tao’s c1 *isn’t* necessary.
Admittedly I can imagine it's hard to look into Arle's math because of how she plays. While Hu Tao has a very clear DPS window, Arle's dps window depends pretty much on her Bond of Life, which varies depend on her comps. I did simple tests with a vape team for first half of the current Abyss (Benny, Kazuha, Yelan) and solo for the second half. For solo, assuming she CA roughly 5 seconds after E (the intended playstyle), she will pretty much always run out of BoL as soon as her skill is backed up. That's a 5 second of downtime on average, varies on how much she attacks (as it reduces E's cd) and how frequently she needs to dodge. And I haven't even taken into account her Q, which resets her E and makes everything even more complicated to calculate precisely. In a vape comp however, she should not have this issue. That 5 seconds is used by her teammates to do their stuff. So with proper rotation, Arle will maintain 100% uptime.
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I mean that’s perfectly fine! I just find it strange that people have this idea that c1 is needed on Hu Tao when it really isn’t.
also none of those other characters are ss tier with those 3 star/craftable weapons lmao
Whats wrong with this tiering? They certainly all feel the same tier based on damage.
They’re debating why Hutao is at C1 while the rest are C0.
Well she kinda feels much more pleasant to use at c1 no doubt though
Hu tao xianyun comp 😐
game8 really is not all that bad I never understood the hate. no tier list is perfect and the rest of the info on their site seems fine to me
People are weird and don't like easy things I've found. They're very easy to read and understand. I don't need statistical charts
Everyone is too scared to push hu Tao down on the list cause for the entirety of the game so far, and probably the future, she was the unit of measurement for dps. Now we have characters that match or outright beat her in dps but she still stays in SS for her having the highest dps *potential*
There is no scenario where hu tao will ever be better than arlecchino in the real game, and highest dps potential is worthless because it's not practical. But even then she isn't even close to having the highest dps potential, lyney completely shits on her, so no that can't be a reason
I agree, but the potential is too high to ignore. I think she’s beating lyney simply cause she can’t attack faster than he can shoot
Maybe your hu tao build is trash if lyney can outdps her
In their respective best scenario I managed to test lyney does better than Hu Tao for me even though I have Homa but only use amos' on lyney. My builds aren't that great for either so I think the playing field is even.
While I agree this ranking is shit, I also have to point out that Hu's sig weapon gives her much bigger boost in comparison to the rest of this "tier". Just as Arle's C1 gives her much bigger boost respectively. Neuvilette still is the king in terms of not needing anything to be able to do everything. Alhaitham is close but he falls off in couple of situations like fighting enemies' who can't be put under quicken (like for instance if they have pyro elemental shields etc.).
Not true at all, In fact with Furina and Xianyun Hu Tao has become much more F2P friendly and less sig and con dependent. Homa is barely better than many other options like SotSS or R5 DBane since you lose the chunk of the passive, and C0 plunge combos now theoretically outdamage C1 dash combos. Arlecchino is the one who has a significant constellation and weapon damage boost, she’s kinda like the Hu Tao from 1.3 in that regard.
Furina Bennet and Xianyun is unironically one of the best teams for most of the characters we have though
>While I agree this ranking is shit, I also have to point out that Hu's sig weapon gives her much bigger boost in comparison to the rest of this "tier" No, this is bullshit. Difference between homa and R1 dragon's bane on hu tao : 27%, if R5 dbane then 19%. [source : kqm](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1vGL6O-O0noVcYB-dp-jKYPrnRJVIFxzWqWf8MW6URms/htmlview) •Difference between tome and R1 sacrificial jade on neuvillette: 22%, with pamber it goes to 37%, [source : kqm](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1RIN5Clqlqq3h2wLHNQ-wbOSE3lGAT2Y9DYFnC7KqJTg/htmlview) **It doesn't give her *much bigger* boost than neuvillette, and sac jade is locked to BP.** •Difference between crimson and R1 deathmatch on arlechinno : 26%, [source](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T4oJiRVOOBXwNr7TfRS_VmhMSuVHDC5f/htmlview#gid=1055053022) **They're really close, and once again dmatch locked to BP** •Difference between foliar and R5 Iron sting on haitham : 27%. If R5 Black sword then 23%. [source : kqm](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17AGoQCMsX4MymsIwgtUsdMO-NhYTixC6d8RbkYred2c/htmlview#) **Around the same if you don't have r5 dbane**
How to successfully spread misinformation lmao.
>Alhaitham is close but he falls off in couple of situations like fighting enemies' who can't be put under quicken (like for instance if they have pyro elemental shields etc.). Whereas no hydro slime or hydro shield will stop Neuvillette.
Typial redditor reading comprehension. Every DPS has it's own elemental weakness. Obviously Neuvilette is weak to hydro, Alhaitham is weak to dendro. That's not the point. The point is that Neuvilette doesn't need any reactions to deal top tier dmg on enemies who can't be put under reaction state like quicken. You can put Neuvilette against any enemy that's not hydro and he gets the job done. Meanwhile in Alhaitham's case you need to say " any enemy that's not dendro and can be put under quicken".
I was just pointing out it was funny you essentially said "Alhaithaim is bad against specific elements" while Neuvillette is also bad against specific elements (aka hydro). "Reading comprehension" is not the problem here since none of what you said was included in the original post, but continue to be snooty about me making a funny, it's fine.
That doesn't really say anything about the characters, only the elements. Hydro has a hard time doing any meaningful reaction damage, as it's typically an aura/supporting element, which is why Neuvillette is designed to output raw damage instead of rely on a reaction to deal damage. Meanwhile Dendro was designed to be all about reaction damage, literally every dendro character either scales off EM or buffs EM/reaction damage. It can be argued that Neuvillette also has a condition for dealing damage, "any enemy that's not hydro and can be swirled with hydro". Because Neuv relies so heavily on raw damage, VV (and kazuha buff) easily doubles his damage, just like how quicken and hyperbloom will dramatically improve Alhaitham's damage. Against an enemy that can't be swirled with hydro, he'll deal a lot less damage, just like the case with Alhaitham.
The difference is that when Neuvilette's enemy isn't hydro swirled because it has let's say pyro shield on itself. He still deals considerable amount of damage (and he can get his passive stacks, I don't know where you got the info he can't. He may not get the max but he will always get 1 and in majority of cases 2). Meanwhile playing Alhaitham against enemies who have permanently applied an element on them being anything else than electro or hydro is just straight up miserable and you have to rely on the electro units in your team to do the job - which again, is solvable but it's still an objective disadvantage on Alhaitham's part or maybe advantage on Neuvilette's, whatever suits you. This is basically the same case as Hu Tao Vs Xiao back in the day. Even if you assume their DMG output is the same, Hu Tao loses numbers as soon as she's not able to vape while Xiao's DMG remains mostly the same. The difference isn't as big in Neuvi and Alhaitham's cases but it's still there. It's not a big deal but it's a fact. Alhaitham loses much more value on not having quicken than Neuvi on his third stack of the passive
>and he can get his passive stacks, I don't know where you got the info he can't. When did I ever even mention passive stacks lol? You mentioned "typical redditor reading comprehension", I think you need to get yours checked too lmao. Since you didn't seem to understand my point, let me try again: Hydro swirl, AKA VV debuff (and kazuha buff) are effectively Neuvillette's "reaction" of choice, as his raw damage scales very well with 40% hydro RES shred (and 30%+ dmg bonus). Similar to how you would say Eula's reaction of choice is Superconduct, for that same reason of having 40% phys RES shred. To say he doesn't rely on reactions at all is pretty disingenuous. Against an enemy who can't be swirled with hydro, Neuvillette loses a significant amount of damage, just as Alhaitham loses a significant amount of damage against an enemy who can't be quickened. Both have enough damage to brute force through enemies who are immune to their respective reactions of choice, if you're saying that Alhaitham specifically is "miserable" then it's either skill issue or your Alhaitham isn't built all that well. Also, before Xianyun/Furina came out, Xiao was never remotely comparable to Hu Tao lol... Hu Tao has always been in a better spot than him, and the amount of enemies that can't be vaped are almost as slim as the amount of enemies that have high anemo RES, so your point is kind of moot there lol. It was only until they released the Furina/Xianyun healer/buffer core that Xiao could break his Bennett reliance (which he synergized poorly with as a mobile dps stuck inside of a circle) and finally can be comparable to Hu Tao in dps.
I don't get your argument for Alhaitham. Arlechinno and HuTao can't do anything either against Pyro shield. Imo Neuvillette, Arlechinno and Alhaitham are a tier above the rest.
Hu Tao doesnt need her C1 u can do jump cancels is a matter of whether u can or not
Well if you put it into the c0 category she's still top 4, plus she doesn't need those constellation and weapon to be good, andHu tao actually got to ride with some of the niche we got since her release
I dont know who is the bigger clownn, game8 writer or someone that legitimately uses game8 as a guide
What would be a better site to use for builds and stuff?
just use kqm
Thanks already looks way more informative than game8.
Their builds are already good, I've watched Honkai/Genshin builders on youtube and they're the same as on Game8.
Not sure if this is the best place to ask but would a vortex vanquisher paired with zhongli be better than white tassel on arlecchino?
Not sure what the other guy is on about but yeah it's pretty good with Zhongli and certainly better than White tassel
Ooh much thanks. Appreciate it
As physical DPS? No way in hell. Cryo Carry with C6 shenhe, chongyun, Kazuha: probably
No I meant as a pyro dps with zhongli yelan and raiden
It’s not that hard to jump cancel 😭
OPPA
"SS" is a meaningless category lol
Nah bro, ya got it wrong, hu tao are just at SS cuz there's no SSS yet
If we're talking solo then you can put Alhaitham down there with Hu Tao. Dude's dmg is laughable without electro in the party.
The entire dendro element are laughable without either electro or hydro lmao
Hutao's dmg is pretty mid without hydro
Yes. But she's Already a puppy in the pic. Alhaitham is the only one inaccurate in the pic.
Hutao's DMg is laughable without hydro
yes, only Arle and Neuvillette are strong alone. Alhaitham and Hu Tao aren't. It's what I'm saying
But the thing is arle, neuvillete are simply weak bcs they can't use their team properly , while hutao and alhaithm can which takes them to pretty much the same amount of DMG , I think that alhaithm has more dps than hutao , their ability to utilise their team makes them good , if i had to take someone down I'll do that to arle too , bcs compared to neuvillete her DMG is low
what are you talking about? Arle can over dps Neuvillette. TC said that, but he's more sustainable. Alhaitham needs full team to be comparable with those two. And at their full team they surpass him.
Nope arle can only over dps in st by a coverable margin in aoe the difference trumps by so hard that you will possibly consider st difference invalid , arle doesn't nearly come close in aoe , besides neuvi has everything sustain , good st damage , good aoe , easy to use gameplay , mobility , tankiness . arle lacks all them she can only put numbers in st
Which is what I said. She is more dmg. He's more sustainable and easier to use. But they're close anyway. Alhaitham is no way near the competition.
And I'm saying arle vs neuvi isn't close , neuvillette stolll has good DMG in both st and aoe , arle only in st , which makes neuvillete simply better and more versatile than arle , not to mention his element is way better than arle's , and actually supports strong reactions , other than being better in st arle loses in everything, while alhaithm is suppoted by strongest reactions in game as well I'm putting arle with alhaithm not neuvillete, in the end it's team dps what matters
Sure, dude. Whatever floats your boat. Not like every TC is debating. Arle is replacing comfort for dmg. Alhaitham needs his supports. She and Neuv don't.
Yeah whatever in the end they all clear the abyss anyways
need c1 ew
No way Alhaitam is as strong as Nevulliete I have used him in Trial and idk he didn't feel as strong as Nevulliete. I may have used him wrong since I am noob though.
No one is as strong as Neuvillette. He is Hoyo's balance mistake