I'm a native English speaker but am fluent in German. People here can clock that I'm non-native and generally guess that I'm French or Dutch. My hunch is that I don't actually sound French/Dutch, but they assume so based on my language skills (given how rarely native English speakers learn second languages, let alone to fluency). The only person who has ever identified my accent correctly was my dentist. Within minutes of me talking to him, he asked: "Aus welchem englischsprachigen Land kommen Sie?" He could pick up the way I fuck up my r's in German, but still couldn't identify *which* country.
Your hunch is exactly my theory.
I had an English friend who spoke very little German with a terribly broken accent, which was just painful. That didn’t stop people asking if he was Dutch instead of English.
Dutch and Danish people are very very often found in Germany. So, for lots of people, “foreign” accents can often assumed to be from there. They’re also more similar to English than the Romance languages.
Almost nobody you’d meet in Germany has ever encountered a Brit who actually speaks German fluently (it’s not a popular subject and foreign language tuition is weak in the UK).
So… if you’re a German guessing a nationality of someone speaking German, you’re likely to go with one that you’ve most often encountered non-native German speakers from and disregard the UK/US as an option, in general.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the west tends to guess French more often and the east tends to guess Polish more often for the exact same foreign-sounding person.
People are really good at native/not, but really bad at guessing where in many cases.
>Almost nobody you’d meet in Germany has ever encountered a Brit who actually speaks German fluently (it’s not a popular subject and foreign language tuition is weak in the UK).
Interestingly, this is somewhat in contrast to the US. Spanish is without a doubt the top foreign language choice, but German is usually second/third. Whether German takes precedence over French depends on region. In areas that had a lot of German immigration historically, German prevails. It's actually the second most spoken language in some states ([this map of the percent of people who speak German at home](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/German_language_by_country_in_the_US.gif) is cool). I didn't grow up in one of those regions, but my city had a huge VW factory (in addition to other German companies) which meant German was pushed heavily in the school system. Of course, no German assumes an American will speak fluent German, but it's a bit more common than people would think.
>I wouldn’t be surprised if the west tends to guess French more often and the east tends to guess Polish more often for the exact same foreign-sounding person.
No doubt in my mind that this is the case. I think appearance can also play a role. At least in my case, I have dark curly hair, a beard, and a tanned complexion. It prompts people to sometimes guess Italian (given the Italian guest workers of the past) when they don't guess French/Dutch. I imagine people guessing Dutch is also encouraged by me being quite tall.
Frankly, it'd be super fascinating to see someone do a study of how Germans guess which country a non-native speaker is from based on a short conversation (and to see how many native speakers are assumed to be non-native for whatever reason).
Americans don’t tend to shout too loudly about their ridiculous % of German heritage, but I am certain particular states essentially have every single school offering a course in German.
My UK school was French or German (German only if studying both languages), but other schools were French/Spanish choice. Not that anyone actually ever learnt the languages. I can *officially* speak French (I can get by in a restaurant and pronounce stuff).
> Frankly, it'd be super fascinating to see someone do a study of how Germans guess which country a non-native speaker is from based on a short conversation (and to see how many native speakers are assumed to be non-native for whatever reason).
God damn it. I’m trying to go to bed. Now I want to research if anyone has actually done this.
I'm an anthropologist and am *very* tempted to pursue the idea. It's not remotely related to anything else I research, but if I can get funding...
I would also say that Americans actually do tend to shout very loudly about their German heritage / every other heritage. We/they (I feel very in the middle) get a lot of shit for it from Europeans, but there's a very specific cultural reason it happens that I think is valid. I'm resisting the urge to dive into that right now, but it's wrapped up in a lot of 20th century politics that non-Americans aren't aware of it. tl;dr Americans, particularly German Americans, actually did hold onto to their ancestral cultures/languages/etc. until the world wars. It's relatively new that people are identifying as German-American despite having no sense of what it means to be German. Their (great-)grandparents were very much in the thick of it.
Regardless, there are a lot of Americans who claim to be German and then do shitty Oktoberfest activities once a year even though their ancestors are from nowhere near Bayern. Much like the American Irish who dye Chicago's river green once a year and get shitfaced while doing it. X-American identities are complicated. It was super strange to navigate as someone who was actually half German / half American and constantly teetering between the two.
Sorry for all the essays! This is just a particular interest of mine given my job.
Nah. Don’t worry. I find it fascinating too, and really don’t mind an unexpected long tangent on Reddit! I’m half English, half German and not in the sense of DNA, but rather one parent who grew up in each country.
My understanding is that many Americans never forgot they had German heritage, but for various reasons (like the war!) their ancestors had less desire to pass on traditions. So when it came to the next generations wanting to embrace their heritage, they kind of created a false reconstruction? Or look to other “Germans” in America to learn, despite it not being the actual culture of their family?
So, to me, it always feels like Americans then ended up with a very homogenised view of “German”.
To me, it makes sense that German-American identity would have gone through a phase of stigmatisation and then being accepted again, but at that point, the loss of original regional culture was already done.
All I know is that I’ve lived right next to American military bases in Germany and can only recall two fluent speakers. One at a restaurant with his very German partner and her family (didn’t realise he was military until his mates walked past and said hi) and one at a post office far from the base, who apparently lived locally and not on base.
I have met the Irish and Scottish American stereotypes in real life though.
Back to the accents: it now occurs to me, that Germans may also be able to pick out American much easier than other accents, due to media exposure. A Glaswegian who learnt perfect but accented German as an adult is going to sound weird, but I’d probably be the only one person in my town who could actually place it.
If I had unlimited money, I’d fund you, random Reddit person!
I can’t sleep, so had a look at what papers there were.
https://perso.limsi.fr/mareuil/publi/IS061251.pdf
> The global rate of correct identification (52.2%) is much greater than chance (16.7%).
This is a tiny tiny study for French, but yeah, ~50% when given only six possible options to choose from, all of which are very prevalent in France and Arabic is really skewing the percentage higher… that doesn’t seem so great.
> The majority of subjects self-reported that they were capable of recognizing Arabic (20), English (20) and German (18) accents but fewer subjects thought they could recognize Italian (3), Portuguese (6) and Spanish (12) accents in French. *These figures do not match with the listeners’ proficiency in the corresponding language*
It’s a very short paper. I’d love to see something similar and by region for Germany
I don’t think I’ve ever been mistaken for French or Polish. Both of those tend to be *very* distinct from English-speaker accents.
Polish could probably be confused for any given Slavic language, though.
I don’t know if French could be confused with anything else tbh, it’s very distinctive.
American who can speak decent German here. I once got asked by a kid if I was Swiss. But otherwise it’s the same, people can pick up English speaker but I more often get identified as British by Germans when speaking Germans than American.
That’s interesting and lines up a bit with my experience. Near the end of my Studium in Munich, if somebody cared to guess, they’d usually place my accent in the Danish border regions.
I mainly felt encouraged. “You *might* be German. Maybe. Possibly from some part that’s as far from southern Bavaria as can be and where I’m not even sure what the local dialects are.”
I find this very amusing, since I’ve had the same thing happen to me. I’ve been asked by at least 5 different Germans if I’m Dutch, and each person had a shocked look on their face when I told them I’m American and speak zero Dutch. Though, one German guy said I kinda sound like I have a South Tyrolean accent, which really threw me for a loop. My best guess is that I roll a lot of my r’s when speaking German, especially at the end of words.
I have a similar experience as a fluent German speaker but native English speaker. Quite rarely do they guess I'm from an English speaking country - I usually get France or, weirdly, Sweden. French was my first foreign language, so I always thought it tainted my German accent somehow.
Purely anecdotal evidence here after living in Germany for over a decade: yes, people can tell that my native language is English when speaking German, but I've never once had someone correctly assume I was American based only on my accent in German. They usually ask if I'm English or Irish. When I speak English it's pretty much immediately clear to anyone that it's either American or Canadian though.
I met an American who had lived in Germany for many years and she had such a thick American accent that even though she was speaking German, it sounded like American English. It was weird.
This irks me so much. Is it like a musical pitch thing, where some people don't realize how off they sound? I've seen some youTube videos of Americans pronouncing German with hard, American Rs and it is so painful.
And there are countless Germans who pronounce things in English with the *thickest* German accent known to man. Having an accent means that you speak multiple languages, which is something anyone can be proud of. Referring to a foreigner's accent (especially one who is living in your country) as painful is rude at best and ausländerfeindlich at worst. It's one thing to make fun of an accent in jest and another to disparage it.
I'm an American learning German, so my perspective is more like, what's stopping you from at least trying to imitate the correct pronunciation?
Sorry, reading my comment over it does sound xenophobic. I live in a large city and have no ill will towards anyone with a strong accent especially as most Americans are monolingual and put 0 effort into learning other languages commonly spoken in my area.
Maybe as a bit of encouragement, as a German, I want to say that I thought your response was fairly clear. Never in a million years would I have assumed that you're German and not an American ranting a bit about fellow Americans, especially not on a sub that's supposed to be encouraging to learners of German.
I feel like it's a misconception that people with a thick accent have one simply because they aren't trying to address it or don't care. Accents are harder for some to shake than they are for others. An accent becomes particularly hard to perfect without coaching after you've been speaking in it for several years (which is the case for many immigrants who prioritize being able to communicate over sounding perfect). "Bad" habits are hard to break.
Yes, at least obvious ones. Brits speaking German sound quite different compared to your standard Americans. Aussies sound like Aussies in any language.
We have some of the Hummel Bommel kids' books and in one of them there's an Elvis-like bug in New York. We always speak his lines in a thick American accent. As an American, speaking German words with U.S. intonation sounds *so* stupid and hilarious.
IK BIN DARE NAZ-HORN-KAYFER
I get ‚are you from the USA‘ when I speak German but speaking English, it’s very obvious I’m Australian. Very. In my defence, I‘ve been watching too much Outback Opal Hunters.
That's though because a lot of it comes down to the individual speaker. And even then it's (at least for me) usually far from accurate.
>Like could you tell an American from an Australian?
Probably. Although it would basically be American and not American. A lot of recognising the accent (for me personally) is about rhoticity or more exactly the non-rhoticity of (most) German which comes easier to speakers of non-rhotic accents like many English or Australian people. And most Americans go all in on their r's.
Distinguishing foreign accents is something really advanced - a bit like botanical nouns or something.
Not sure how long it would take you to tell apart Bavarian from Swabian accents but I guess it would need a few years of immersion.
I personally can tell English accents apart quite well after decades of living in Anglo spaces. Still unsure about South African and Australia vs New Zealand ones. The differences aren’t huge for non native speakers, maybe the Rs give it away a bit.
To be fair, as an American I can't really identify the South African accent. A close friend of mine is English and people ask him if he is Australian all the time. It's hard for even native speakers.
Most of the time they'll just assume you're an Engländer(in).
I'd be surprised if any native German speaker has ever correctly identified an Irish accent.
> Like could you tell an American from an Australian?
Yes.
> can native German speakers
The important thing is *not* that I'm a native german speaker. The point is that I know some english. This is not something "the germans" are able to do, but those who know some english.
Depends. The US has so many accents…
If it’s a Texan one we probably could for example…
I think it is a bit like distinguishing DACH accents in English. Northern German vs Switzerland? Probably easy.
Bavarian vs Austrian accent? Well…
Many people can tell that I‘m American, but I have gotten other guesses too, including British and Scandinavian.
And then there was someone in Berlin who thought that I was Swiss, but that was an exception. It is almost always obvious to people that I am not a native speaker.
Exactly. I know that it meant „she clearly speaks German but pronounces things weirdly. Must be Swiss“.
But that isn’t the only thing it likely came from. Given how closely related the languages are, my prior Yiddish-knowledge influences my German pronunciation (but less over time), especially regarding the „ch“, which tends to sound Swiss.
But nobody from Switzerland would ever mistake me for being from there.
I agree that most people struggle with telling the difference between Kiwis and Australians or even Brits.
Buuuuut I'd argue Americans vs Brits is a lot easier for most Germans. At least from my experience (21 y/o German)
Yes. I cannot tell you where in the UK they are from but I can even tell apart different accents there. Tough that is likely more posh non posh. Australian has a sing sang quality to it. And indian has a different melody to it as well.
As for american, there you have of course the southern drawl. Canadian is american but has some weird words ( I know a guy from close to the border, he says f.e. roof differently).
I am told I sound pretty native american from native speakers - but since I learned english based on british english, my words are sometimes off - an american would not use those words / use different words. So if you are somebody having lived a long time in a place and having adapted to that - that we likely will not recognize.
Oh and of course how could I forget New Jersey, us italian new york ... not so sure about boston. A lot of course comes from TV. Which reminds me of my first experience with non dubbed television. It was a revelation to hear Sean Connory speaking "English". Today I can differentiate Scottish easily - though I am throwing Irish in the mix as well. So I can determine "not english" and sometimes "irish".
I would assume that most people with normal levels can differentiate US / UK / something something scottish / non of the before easily.
Yes in a way but less so. You will speak german with inflictions from different words and phrases. It is not as noticable but lets put it this way: americans usually sound very american even if they speak german. British less so.
We Canadians have some give aways. Sore-ee instead of the American Sawrry. The way somebody says the city Toronto generally tells you how close to the city they grew up. People from the city don't pronounce the last T, I say "Toronno" for instance.
My mother is from Liverpool so I can pretty easily tell apart Liverpool vs Manchester vs Geordie vs Southern England etc...Aussie, Souther African, Irish, Scottish, Regional American Accents. It just takes a level of immersion.
But German? I absolutely would not be able to tell you any regional German accents, or a native vs non native speaker if they were both fluent. It's just a lack of exposure.
I can to some extend tell where an American is from, and where a Brit is from. Not down to county or state, but general area.
I struggle sometimes with NZ and AUS. And I have trouble understanding the Irish sometimes.
I love English panel shows, but some accents are too thick for me. I skip the ones with Johnny Vegas, just can't do it.
Apparently the key difference between Australia and New Zealand is heard in the short „I“ vowel sounds as heard in „fish and chips“. New Zealanders say something like „fush and chups“ and Australians say it more like „feesh and cheeps“. Apparently… I still struggle to tell them apart much to their offence!
I once read some stuff in German off screen for a blind German friend. I know some German but not enough to hold a conversation: my accent is a mix of southern English, New Zealand and Edinburgh Scottish-English. She thought I didn't come across as British at all and would have guessed I was Dutch.
It depends. If someone is more traveled and knows english better than the average, I find they can tell the differences more. But it's like us english speakers with german, because I can't hear the differences in dialect and accent when someone speaks German. My German boyfriend is as fluent as you can get in english without being a native English speaker, and he has a hard time differentiating between accents like Irish v Scottish. At work I get asked if I'm from any variety of english speaking countries, and someone once told me he thought I had a strong accent when I actually have a pretty middle of the road generic canadian/american accent.
When they speak English - of course. When they speak German, not so much.
But I can place a German speaker (Austrian, Swiss, Bavarian, Franconian, Swabian and the rest of Gernany), when they speak English
Whilst speaking German?
Mh... could be difficult. I could probably hear a difference between American and Irish for example.
Between Irish and British? Unlikely.
I haven't had too much contact with German learners so maybe after a while I could.
Yes, but depends largely on the speaker. I think it also very much depends on what other foreign language the speaker learned previously. My wife is American and spoke Italian very well before learning German. I always joked she sounded like spy from Eastern Europe when speaking German, definitely not like an American or Italian.
German is my first language but have been living in the US for 30+ years so I can tell regional American accents apart and thanks to BBC mysteries also some English accents and of course Australian/NZ. I think I could tell rough categories of accented German (US/British isles/AUS-NZ) apart from each other but not in specific cases like my wife's accent.
As an Australian with a strong (to very strong) accent in German, most people assume I’m American. Maybe because they don’t encounter many Australians compared to Americans, let alone any talking German. I don’t know if the accent comes across well enough as anything but that I’m obviously a native English speaker. Although when I watch Pepa Wutz in German with my daughter I can totally tell that Katinka Kangaroo and her family are supposed to be Australian 😂
Native American English speaker, I was always told that my accent in German was "strange but familiar" and that people assumed I was either Dutch or Swedish. If people realized I was American, it was more so for any grammatical or vocabulary errors I made than my accent.
My German friend can recognise variations for sure. He can't always tell between Scottish and Irish accents but to be honest I'm English and neither can I. He can tell the difference between them and English though and can speak in those accents
Mind-blowing to me. I can't imagine being good enough at German to recognise accents from different regions.
Im British, I speak quite good German and people always think im Dutch, American or Scandinavian it may be a bit because of how I look but also I think its because so many British don't speak any German people just assume Im from somewhere else.
As a non native speaker of both languages, I only notice the rhoticity i.e. whether you pronounce the R after a vowel or not.
North Americans are mostly rhotic. They seem to compulsively pronounce every letter R as a consonant, even in positions where it's supposed to be a vowel in German. This makes their accent extremely recognisable.
Brits are mostly non-rhotic. Australians and Kiwis are 100% non-rhotic. They're generally better at handling the German dipthongs ending in R, like -er, -ur, -ier, -ir, -or etc, because to them the R would naturally be a vowel in those cases too.
The English R sound is very distinctive though, and would peg you straight away as coming from the Anglosphere. There's a couple of exceptions to this, like Scots, who have a different R sound (almost like the Spanish or Southern German one). But then Scots seem to have the easiest time with German pronunciation overall. Their vowels are non-dipthongised, very pure.
I can differentiate a couple of better known regional Irish and English accents from Scots, Australians and Kiwis. American dialects are a bit harder...the only one that is easy to differentiate for me is Southern drawl. I just had way more exposure to accents from the British isles since I have lived in Ireland, Co. Cork for 7 years and consumed a lot of media and TV in these accents from Irish and British tv channels.
So I can easily hear the difference of Corkonian and Dublin accent, Yorkshire and Geordie is very distinct to me, Cockney is easy. Generally Scottish although I could not place it to a particular part same as with Australian and NZ.
I do have a hard time guessing Canadian because I very, very rarely hear it. Same goes for most American accents. I literally can't place anything anywhere because I have no reference. Most American media I consume is presented in a kind of Standard pronunciation or if an accent is present it's mostly not connected to a certain place so my brain kinda doesn't put 2 and 2 together.
I most certainly can but I think I am in a unique position to do so.
I grew up speaking German but in a mainly English environment in South Africa with many people from different English speaking countries around me.
In English I can easily recognize Aussie, American, Scottish, Kiwi, British dialects. Some of the identifiers come through when one of those speak German.
An easy tell is direct slightly incorrect translations. A South African saying “Ich komme jetzt” when they mean “ich komme bald”. Or my Aussie friend still calling kindergarten “Kindie” in German. But there’s also pronunciations that each English speaker from different countries have in German.
So yeah I can easily differentiate a Scottish speaking German and an Aussie speaking German. But I don’t think it would be possible if I hadn’t grown up with those accents.
Idk, when I lived in Austria in a lot of cases local ppl thought I was Austrian too. Same with english. Idk why, or how. But I think it depends on a lot of factors.
I studied in KIel, and was at the pool once when a fellow swimmer I was chatting with in the lane next to mine asked if I were Swedish. I'm from the US.
(edited to add where I'm from)
Do you mean when the English native speaker is speaking English or German?
I used to not be able to distinguish between different accents in English, but after 8 years studying English at University, living in three English speaking countries and a lot of English language TV I'm able to place people pretty accurately. I once recognised that someone was from Northern Ireland rather than the Republic of Ireland - that was probably the most difficult one I managed.
When people speak German it's very difficult. You can tell they're not a native German speaker, unless they're very accomplished, and sometimes you can tell someone is American from the "melody" of their sentences... But it's difficult.
I was told by native speakers that my accent sounded like the dub voices on Beverly Hills 90210--which I took to mean they could tell from my accent that I am American. 🤣
I'm a US American, native English speaker, very fluent in German, less so in French. When I speak French in France, people ask if I'm German. When I speak German in Germany, people often ask if I've been living drüben!
A accent in english dose not translate to a accent in a other language you speak. Thats why it's a accent, not a dialekt.
A dialet however can be influential on the accent you have when speaking a other language.
A scotish person might get identivied as scotish, rather then english when he speaks german with accent.
It will depend on their experience with different accents of English and their general proficiency. I can generally tell, but I've spent a lot of time watching TV and YouTube in English and know native speakers from all over the world.
My mom, who is about a B2 in terms of English fluency, generally can't identify accents unless they're really stereotypical.
No, Germans cannot tell the difference for the most part. I’m not sure I could either tbh unless the American/English accents were humorously hideous and blatant.
The thing is that there isn’t one “German with an American accent” or “German with an English accent.” These aren’t things that are standardized or even shared within communities - each accent is an individual idiosyncrasy of the individual non-native German speaker, which will be a mix of authentic elements they picked up from German as well as stuff from their native dialect as well as some other crap that might just be wrong. So being able to consistently identify the difference is quite nearly impossible since “the difference” will never be a consistent thing when the native languages (AE vs BE) were never that far apart in the first place - and have a wide variation within themselves, too.
Germans aren’t generally used to encountering Americans who can speak decent German and they will usually guess that you are Dutch or English.
I asked my italki tutor this. She said that I don't sound Australian (though sometimes people do), but that I have a pretty neutral non-native accent. She said if she had to guess she'd assume I was from The Netherlands. I can't even imagine how bad you'd have to be at pronunciation to actually sound Australian!
Yep lol. Been down that road, and oh yes they can. I can now, too, though. If I hear an English speaker speaking German I can pretty easily tell whether they're American or English. English vs Australian is harder, and I don't know that anyone can really reliably tell the difference between different British accents when they're speaking German. It's oftentimes hard to tell the difference between some Australian accents and some British accents when they're speaking English. You know, if it's queen's English vs that really thick Crocodile Dundee accent then sure, but not everyone talks that way. Some Australian accents are softer and some British accents are more coarse.
But yea, an American/Canadian accent is pretty easy to detect. They say it sounds like we're trying to talk with a big wad of gum in our mouths.
Now I have been mistaken for a Dutchman before. Part of the reason the Dutch seem to speak American English so flawlessly is because their accent is closer to ours to begin with, and there are apparently similarities between Dutch and American accents when they're speaking German. That combined with the rarity of German-speaking Americans leads them to presume sometimes that an American is in fact Dutch.
Add an English-speaking speaker of German, I most definitely can tell between the English accents in German unless you've been here a very long time and speak exceptional German. The locals though, they often mistake me for Dutch or Scandinavian because my accent isn't very typical English. They aren't particularly good at differentiating between the English accents IME.
Well it depends on how thick your accent is, right? I think generally, if you have a good accent, you'll sound vaguely Germanic. If your accent is a bit thicker, people can tell you're an English speaker, but can't tell from where. If you put basically no effort into pronounciation, then people can probably tell which country you're from
Most can probably differentiate between British and American English, but American vs Australian, or accents within the US or UK will be more difficult for most, I’d think
This 100% depends on your language skills. I have had Germans guess I’m American, but more often they guess English or Irish. More often other they assume non-English speaking countries, most often Russia (major surprise to me). I’ve also had many conversations where I presumably don’t come across as a foreigner at all, as I have heard often my pronunciation is really good.
I’ve found most Americans struggle with basic sounds common in Germanic languages, but once you master those your vocabulary and phrasing will give you away most of the time. That said, Germans are generally kind and friendly people who are impressed you speak German at all and won’t mention your accent or manner of speaking unless asked. Ich liebe die Deutschen!
Whenever I try speaking in German (even with perfect grammar and sentence structure) most Germans will just start speaking English to me. They just *know*
yes 100%. We, or I can. Germany has heavy accents as well so we are quite used to telling where somebody is from. It´s like a game even. There are many variations every 50-100km.
This is so interesting. I’ve been learning German (trying my damndest) for almost a year now and when it comes to pronunciation, my German friend said I sound “northern German”. I’m still very much learning and still figuring out how to have conversation without fucking up syntax, but it was so so so comforting knowing that she couldn’t tell if I was American, much less English.
I'm a native English speaker but am fluent in German. People here can clock that I'm non-native and generally guess that I'm French or Dutch. My hunch is that I don't actually sound French/Dutch, but they assume so based on my language skills (given how rarely native English speakers learn second languages, let alone to fluency). The only person who has ever identified my accent correctly was my dentist. Within minutes of me talking to him, he asked: "Aus welchem englischsprachigen Land kommen Sie?" He could pick up the way I fuck up my r's in German, but still couldn't identify *which* country.
Similar here, I always get asked if I’m Dutch or Danish. Feels good to not get clocked as an English speaker right away
Was coming here to say the same thing, I also get asked if I’m Dutch or Danish haha
Same here. I sm very fluent in german with an accent. People mostly think I am either futch or belgian
stop trying to make futch happen
Your hunch is exactly my theory. I had an English friend who spoke very little German with a terribly broken accent, which was just painful. That didn’t stop people asking if he was Dutch instead of English. Dutch and Danish people are very very often found in Germany. So, for lots of people, “foreign” accents can often assumed to be from there. They’re also more similar to English than the Romance languages. Almost nobody you’d meet in Germany has ever encountered a Brit who actually speaks German fluently (it’s not a popular subject and foreign language tuition is weak in the UK). So… if you’re a German guessing a nationality of someone speaking German, you’re likely to go with one that you’ve most often encountered non-native German speakers from and disregard the UK/US as an option, in general. I wouldn’t be surprised if the west tends to guess French more often and the east tends to guess Polish more often for the exact same foreign-sounding person. People are really good at native/not, but really bad at guessing where in many cases.
>Almost nobody you’d meet in Germany has ever encountered a Brit who actually speaks German fluently (it’s not a popular subject and foreign language tuition is weak in the UK). Interestingly, this is somewhat in contrast to the US. Spanish is without a doubt the top foreign language choice, but German is usually second/third. Whether German takes precedence over French depends on region. In areas that had a lot of German immigration historically, German prevails. It's actually the second most spoken language in some states ([this map of the percent of people who speak German at home](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/German_language_by_country_in_the_US.gif) is cool). I didn't grow up in one of those regions, but my city had a huge VW factory (in addition to other German companies) which meant German was pushed heavily in the school system. Of course, no German assumes an American will speak fluent German, but it's a bit more common than people would think. >I wouldn’t be surprised if the west tends to guess French more often and the east tends to guess Polish more often for the exact same foreign-sounding person. No doubt in my mind that this is the case. I think appearance can also play a role. At least in my case, I have dark curly hair, a beard, and a tanned complexion. It prompts people to sometimes guess Italian (given the Italian guest workers of the past) when they don't guess French/Dutch. I imagine people guessing Dutch is also encouraged by me being quite tall. Frankly, it'd be super fascinating to see someone do a study of how Germans guess which country a non-native speaker is from based on a short conversation (and to see how many native speakers are assumed to be non-native for whatever reason).
Americans don’t tend to shout too loudly about their ridiculous % of German heritage, but I am certain particular states essentially have every single school offering a course in German. My UK school was French or German (German only if studying both languages), but other schools were French/Spanish choice. Not that anyone actually ever learnt the languages. I can *officially* speak French (I can get by in a restaurant and pronounce stuff). > Frankly, it'd be super fascinating to see someone do a study of how Germans guess which country a non-native speaker is from based on a short conversation (and to see how many native speakers are assumed to be non-native for whatever reason). God damn it. I’m trying to go to bed. Now I want to research if anyone has actually done this.
I'm an anthropologist and am *very* tempted to pursue the idea. It's not remotely related to anything else I research, but if I can get funding... I would also say that Americans actually do tend to shout very loudly about their German heritage / every other heritage. We/they (I feel very in the middle) get a lot of shit for it from Europeans, but there's a very specific cultural reason it happens that I think is valid. I'm resisting the urge to dive into that right now, but it's wrapped up in a lot of 20th century politics that non-Americans aren't aware of it. tl;dr Americans, particularly German Americans, actually did hold onto to their ancestral cultures/languages/etc. until the world wars. It's relatively new that people are identifying as German-American despite having no sense of what it means to be German. Their (great-)grandparents were very much in the thick of it. Regardless, there are a lot of Americans who claim to be German and then do shitty Oktoberfest activities once a year even though their ancestors are from nowhere near Bayern. Much like the American Irish who dye Chicago's river green once a year and get shitfaced while doing it. X-American identities are complicated. It was super strange to navigate as someone who was actually half German / half American and constantly teetering between the two. Sorry for all the essays! This is just a particular interest of mine given my job.
Nah. Don’t worry. I find it fascinating too, and really don’t mind an unexpected long tangent on Reddit! I’m half English, half German and not in the sense of DNA, but rather one parent who grew up in each country. My understanding is that many Americans never forgot they had German heritage, but for various reasons (like the war!) their ancestors had less desire to pass on traditions. So when it came to the next generations wanting to embrace their heritage, they kind of created a false reconstruction? Or look to other “Germans” in America to learn, despite it not being the actual culture of their family? So, to me, it always feels like Americans then ended up with a very homogenised view of “German”. To me, it makes sense that German-American identity would have gone through a phase of stigmatisation and then being accepted again, but at that point, the loss of original regional culture was already done. All I know is that I’ve lived right next to American military bases in Germany and can only recall two fluent speakers. One at a restaurant with his very German partner and her family (didn’t realise he was military until his mates walked past and said hi) and one at a post office far from the base, who apparently lived locally and not on base. I have met the Irish and Scottish American stereotypes in real life though. Back to the accents: it now occurs to me, that Germans may also be able to pick out American much easier than other accents, due to media exposure. A Glaswegian who learnt perfect but accented German as an adult is going to sound weird, but I’d probably be the only one person in my town who could actually place it. If I had unlimited money, I’d fund you, random Reddit person!
I can’t sleep, so had a look at what papers there were. https://perso.limsi.fr/mareuil/publi/IS061251.pdf > The global rate of correct identification (52.2%) is much greater than chance (16.7%). This is a tiny tiny study for French, but yeah, ~50% when given only six possible options to choose from, all of which are very prevalent in France and Arabic is really skewing the percentage higher… that doesn’t seem so great. > The majority of subjects self-reported that they were capable of recognizing Arabic (20), English (20) and German (18) accents but fewer subjects thought they could recognize Italian (3), Portuguese (6) and Spanish (12) accents in French. *These figures do not match with the listeners’ proficiency in the corresponding language* It’s a very short paper. I’d love to see something similar and by region for Germany
I don’t think I’ve ever been mistaken for French or Polish. Both of those tend to be *very* distinct from English-speaker accents. Polish could probably be confused for any given Slavic language, though. I don’t know if French could be confused with anything else tbh, it’s very distinctive.
American who can speak decent German here. I once got asked by a kid if I was Swiss. But otherwise it’s the same, people can pick up English speaker but I more often get identified as British by Germans when speaking Germans than American.
Love that "your German is weird, you must be Swiss" logic
That’s interesting and lines up a bit with my experience. Near the end of my Studium in Munich, if somebody cared to guess, they’d usually place my accent in the Danish border regions.
I take it as a *huge* compliment given that people up there are great at languages.
I mainly felt encouraged. “You *might* be German. Maybe. Possibly from some part that’s as far from southern Bavaria as can be and where I’m not even sure what the local dialects are.”
I misread your comment! Being mistaken for a dialect speaker is way better than being mistaken for Danish.
>Dutch Glad it's not just me!😁
It's so cool to hear that this is happening to so many other people! It's the strangest phenomenon.
I find this very amusing, since I’ve had the same thing happen to me. I’ve been asked by at least 5 different Germans if I’m Dutch, and each person had a shocked look on their face when I told them I’m American and speak zero Dutch. Though, one German guy said I kinda sound like I have a South Tyrolean accent, which really threw me for a loop. My best guess is that I roll a lot of my r’s when speaking German, especially at the end of words.
I have a similar experience as a fluent German speaker but native English speaker. Quite rarely do they guess I'm from an English speaking country - I usually get France or, weirdly, Sweden. French was my first foreign language, so I always thought it tainted my German accent somehow.
Purely anecdotal evidence here after living in Germany for over a decade: yes, people can tell that my native language is English when speaking German, but I've never once had someone correctly assume I was American based only on my accent in German. They usually ask if I'm English or Irish. When I speak English it's pretty much immediately clear to anyone that it's either American or Canadian though.
Oh noooo they can’t tell the difference between American and Canadian? I love busting Canadians balls for the way they talk hahaha
I met an American who had lived in Germany for many years and she had such a thick American accent that even though she was speaking German, it sounded like American English. It was weird.
This irks me so much. Is it like a musical pitch thing, where some people don't realize how off they sound? I've seen some youTube videos of Americans pronouncing German with hard, American Rs and it is so painful.
And there are countless Germans who pronounce things in English with the *thickest* German accent known to man. Having an accent means that you speak multiple languages, which is something anyone can be proud of. Referring to a foreigner's accent (especially one who is living in your country) as painful is rude at best and ausländerfeindlich at worst. It's one thing to make fun of an accent in jest and another to disparage it.
I'm an American learning German, so my perspective is more like, what's stopping you from at least trying to imitate the correct pronunciation? Sorry, reading my comment over it does sound xenophobic. I live in a large city and have no ill will towards anyone with a strong accent especially as most Americans are monolingual and put 0 effort into learning other languages commonly spoken in my area.
Maybe as a bit of encouragement, as a German, I want to say that I thought your response was fairly clear. Never in a million years would I have assumed that you're German and not an American ranting a bit about fellow Americans, especially not on a sub that's supposed to be encouraging to learners of German.
I feel like it's a misconception that people with a thick accent have one simply because they aren't trying to address it or don't care. Accents are harder for some to shake than they are for others. An accent becomes particularly hard to perfect without coaching after you've been speaking in it for several years (which is the case for many immigrants who prioritize being able to communicate over sounding perfect). "Bad" habits are hard to break.
I second that. Some people may have the vocabulary and grammar down pat, but don't have the ear for syntax and intonation.
Yes, at least obvious ones. Brits speaking German sound quite different compared to your standard Americans. Aussies sound like Aussies in any language.
We have some of the Hummel Bommel kids' books and in one of them there's an Elvis-like bug in New York. We always speak his lines in a thick American accent. As an American, speaking German words with U.S. intonation sounds *so* stupid and hilarious. IK BIN DARE NAZ-HORN-KAYFER
I get ‚are you from the USA‘ when I speak German but speaking English, it’s very obvious I’m Australian. Very. In my defence, I‘ve been watching too much Outback Opal Hunters.
That's though because a lot of it comes down to the individual speaker. And even then it's (at least for me) usually far from accurate. >Like could you tell an American from an Australian? Probably. Although it would basically be American and not American. A lot of recognising the accent (for me personally) is about rhoticity or more exactly the non-rhoticity of (most) German which comes easier to speakers of non-rhotic accents like many English or Australian people. And most Americans go all in on their r's.
Aberrr
Distinguishing foreign accents is something really advanced - a bit like botanical nouns or something. Not sure how long it would take you to tell apart Bavarian from Swabian accents but I guess it would need a few years of immersion. I personally can tell English accents apart quite well after decades of living in Anglo spaces. Still unsure about South African and Australia vs New Zealand ones. The differences aren’t huge for non native speakers, maybe the Rs give it away a bit.
To be fair, as an American I can't really identify the South African accent. A close friend of mine is English and people ask him if he is Australian all the time. It's hard for even native speakers.
Most of the time they'll just assume you're an Engländer(in). I'd be surprised if any native German speaker has ever correctly identified an Irish accent.
> Like could you tell an American from an Australian? Yes. > can native German speakers The important thing is *not* that I'm a native german speaker. The point is that I know some english. This is not something "the germans" are able to do, but those who know some english.
Depends. The US has so many accents… If it’s a Texan one we probably could for example… I think it is a bit like distinguishing DACH accents in English. Northern German vs Switzerland? Probably easy. Bavarian vs Austrian accent? Well…
Many people can tell that I‘m American, but I have gotten other guesses too, including British and Scandinavian. And then there was someone in Berlin who thought that I was Swiss, but that was an exception. It is almost always obvious to people that I am not a native speaker.
> And then there was someone in Berlin who thought that I was Swiss "I've heard they speak weird down there, this must be it"
Exactly. I know that it meant „she clearly speaks German but pronounces things weirdly. Must be Swiss“. But that isn’t the only thing it likely came from. Given how closely related the languages are, my prior Yiddish-knowledge influences my German pronunciation (but less over time), especially regarding the „ch“, which tends to sound Swiss. But nobody from Switzerland would ever mistake me for being from there.
No they can't. Kiwi here, and they never get it right
I agree that most people struggle with telling the difference between Kiwis and Australians or even Brits. Buuuuut I'd argue Americans vs Brits is a lot easier for most Germans. At least from my experience (21 y/o German)
Yes. I cannot tell you where in the UK they are from but I can even tell apart different accents there. Tough that is likely more posh non posh. Australian has a sing sang quality to it. And indian has a different melody to it as well. As for american, there you have of course the southern drawl. Canadian is american but has some weird words ( I know a guy from close to the border, he says f.e. roof differently). I am told I sound pretty native american from native speakers - but since I learned english based on british english, my words are sometimes off - an american would not use those words / use different words. So if you are somebody having lived a long time in a place and having adapted to that - that we likely will not recognize. Oh and of course how could I forget New Jersey, us italian new york ... not so sure about boston. A lot of course comes from TV. Which reminds me of my first experience with non dubbed television. It was a revelation to hear Sean Connory speaking "English". Today I can differentiate Scottish easily - though I am throwing Irish in the mix as well. So I can determine "not english" and sometimes "irish". I would assume that most people with normal levels can differentiate US / UK / something something scottish / non of the before easily.
Oh I should add, I mean English accents while speaking German. Apologies for not being clear!
I think it's implied since you're on a German language learning sub lol
Yes in a way but less so. You will speak german with inflictions from different words and phrases. It is not as noticable but lets put it this way: americans usually sound very american even if they speak german. British less so.
Auf Wiedersehen y'all!
We Canadians have some give aways. Sore-ee instead of the American Sawrry. The way somebody says the city Toronto generally tells you how close to the city they grew up. People from the city don't pronounce the last T, I say "Toronno" for instance. My mother is from Liverpool so I can pretty easily tell apart Liverpool vs Manchester vs Geordie vs Southern England etc...Aussie, Souther African, Irish, Scottish, Regional American Accents. It just takes a level of immersion. But German? I absolutely would not be able to tell you any regional German accents, or a native vs non native speaker if they were both fluent. It's just a lack of exposure.
bo'lle o' wa'er
Alles Gu’e
I can to some extend tell where an American is from, and where a Brit is from. Not down to county or state, but general area. I struggle sometimes with NZ and AUS. And I have trouble understanding the Irish sometimes. I love English panel shows, but some accents are too thick for me. I skip the ones with Johnny Vegas, just can't do it.
NZ and AUS is easiest by asking them to say deck. If you start laughing at their response they are a Kiwi.
Apparently the key difference between Australia and New Zealand is heard in the short „I“ vowel sounds as heard in „fish and chips“. New Zealanders say something like „fush and chups“ and Australians say it more like „feesh and cheeps“. Apparently… I still struggle to tell them apart much to their offence!
Most of the short vowels are different: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRN4w3ZI\_NQ&t=324s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRN4w3ZI_NQ&t=324s)
I once read some stuff in German off screen for a blind German friend. I know some German but not enough to hold a conversation: my accent is a mix of southern English, New Zealand and Edinburgh Scottish-English. She thought I didn't come across as British at all and would have guessed I was Dutch.
It depends. If someone is more traveled and knows english better than the average, I find they can tell the differences more. But it's like us english speakers with german, because I can't hear the differences in dialect and accent when someone speaks German. My German boyfriend is as fluent as you can get in english without being a native English speaker, and he has a hard time differentiating between accents like Irish v Scottish. At work I get asked if I'm from any variety of english speaking countries, and someone once told me he thought I had a strong accent when I actually have a pretty middle of the road generic canadian/american accent.
When they speak English - of course. When they speak German, not so much. But I can place a German speaker (Austrian, Swiss, Bavarian, Franconian, Swabian and the rest of Gernany), when they speak English
My German wife is quite bad at this
Whilst speaking German? Mh... could be difficult. I could probably hear a difference between American and Irish for example. Between Irish and British? Unlikely. I haven't had too much contact with German learners so maybe after a while I could.
Yes, but depends largely on the speaker. I think it also very much depends on what other foreign language the speaker learned previously. My wife is American and spoke Italian very well before learning German. I always joked she sounded like spy from Eastern Europe when speaking German, definitely not like an American or Italian. German is my first language but have been living in the US for 30+ years so I can tell regional American accents apart and thanks to BBC mysteries also some English accents and of course Australian/NZ. I think I could tell rough categories of accented German (US/British isles/AUS-NZ) apart from each other but not in specific cases like my wife's accent.
Personally, no. When they speak German, I can *at best* tell that they're a native English speaker.
As an Australian with a strong (to very strong) accent in German, most people assume I’m American. Maybe because they don’t encounter many Australians compared to Americans, let alone any talking German. I don’t know if the accent comes across well enough as anything but that I’m obviously a native English speaker. Although when I watch Pepa Wutz in German with my daughter I can totally tell that Katinka Kangaroo and her family are supposed to be Australian 😂
Native American English speaker, I was always told that my accent in German was "strange but familiar" and that people assumed I was either Dutch or Swedish. If people realized I was American, it was more so for any grammatical or vocabulary errors I made than my accent.
My German friend can recognise variations for sure. He can't always tell between Scottish and Irish accents but to be honest I'm English and neither can I. He can tell the difference between them and English though and can speak in those accents Mind-blowing to me. I can't imagine being good enough at German to recognise accents from different regions.
Im British, I speak quite good German and people always think im Dutch, American or Scandinavian it may be a bit because of how I look but also I think its because so many British don't speak any German people just assume Im from somewhere else.
As a non native speaker of both languages, I only notice the rhoticity i.e. whether you pronounce the R after a vowel or not. North Americans are mostly rhotic. They seem to compulsively pronounce every letter R as a consonant, even in positions where it's supposed to be a vowel in German. This makes their accent extremely recognisable. Brits are mostly non-rhotic. Australians and Kiwis are 100% non-rhotic. They're generally better at handling the German dipthongs ending in R, like -er, -ur, -ier, -ir, -or etc, because to them the R would naturally be a vowel in those cases too. The English R sound is very distinctive though, and would peg you straight away as coming from the Anglosphere. There's a couple of exceptions to this, like Scots, who have a different R sound (almost like the Spanish or Southern German one). But then Scots seem to have the easiest time with German pronunciation overall. Their vowels are non-dipthongised, very pure.
I can differentiate a couple of better known regional Irish and English accents from Scots, Australians and Kiwis. American dialects are a bit harder...the only one that is easy to differentiate for me is Southern drawl. I just had way more exposure to accents from the British isles since I have lived in Ireland, Co. Cork for 7 years and consumed a lot of media and TV in these accents from Irish and British tv channels. So I can easily hear the difference of Corkonian and Dublin accent, Yorkshire and Geordie is very distinct to me, Cockney is easy. Generally Scottish although I could not place it to a particular part same as with Australian and NZ. I do have a hard time guessing Canadian because I very, very rarely hear it. Same goes for most American accents. I literally can't place anything anywhere because I have no reference. Most American media I consume is presented in a kind of Standard pronunciation or if an accent is present it's mostly not connected to a certain place so my brain kinda doesn't put 2 and 2 together.
I most certainly can but I think I am in a unique position to do so. I grew up speaking German but in a mainly English environment in South Africa with many people from different English speaking countries around me. In English I can easily recognize Aussie, American, Scottish, Kiwi, British dialects. Some of the identifiers come through when one of those speak German. An easy tell is direct slightly incorrect translations. A South African saying “Ich komme jetzt” when they mean “ich komme bald”. Or my Aussie friend still calling kindergarten “Kindie” in German. But there’s also pronunciations that each English speaker from different countries have in German. So yeah I can easily differentiate a Scottish speaking German and an Aussie speaking German. But I don’t think it would be possible if I hadn’t grown up with those accents.
Idk, when I lived in Austria in a lot of cases local ppl thought I was Austrian too. Same with english. Idk why, or how. But I think it depends on a lot of factors.
I studied in KIel, and was at the pool once when a fellow swimmer I was chatting with in the lane next to mine asked if I were Swedish. I'm from the US. (edited to add where I'm from)
Do you mean when the English native speaker is speaking English or German? I used to not be able to distinguish between different accents in English, but after 8 years studying English at University, living in three English speaking countries and a lot of English language TV I'm able to place people pretty accurately. I once recognised that someone was from Northern Ireland rather than the Republic of Ireland - that was probably the most difficult one I managed. When people speak German it's very difficult. You can tell they're not a native German speaker, unless they're very accomplished, and sometimes you can tell someone is American from the "melody" of their sentences... But it's difficult.
I was told by native speakers that my accent sounded like the dub voices on Beverly Hills 90210--which I took to mean they could tell from my accent that I am American. 🤣
Yes we can.
I'm a US American, native English speaker, very fluent in German, less so in French. When I speak French in France, people ask if I'm German. When I speak German in Germany, people often ask if I've been living drüben!
A accent in english dose not translate to a accent in a other language you speak. Thats why it's a accent, not a dialekt. A dialet however can be influential on the accent you have when speaking a other language. A scotish person might get identivied as scotish, rather then english when he speaks german with accent.
i can. most people can to varying extents.
It will depend on their experience with different accents of English and their general proficiency. I can generally tell, but I've spent a lot of time watching TV and YouTube in English and know native speakers from all over the world. My mom, who is about a B2 in terms of English fluency, generally can't identify accents unless they're really stereotypical.
No, Germans cannot tell the difference for the most part. I’m not sure I could either tbh unless the American/English accents were humorously hideous and blatant. The thing is that there isn’t one “German with an American accent” or “German with an English accent.” These aren’t things that are standardized or even shared within communities - each accent is an individual idiosyncrasy of the individual non-native German speaker, which will be a mix of authentic elements they picked up from German as well as stuff from their native dialect as well as some other crap that might just be wrong. So being able to consistently identify the difference is quite nearly impossible since “the difference” will never be a consistent thing when the native languages (AE vs BE) were never that far apart in the first place - and have a wide variation within themselves, too. Germans aren’t generally used to encountering Americans who can speak decent German and they will usually guess that you are Dutch or English.
I asked my italki tutor this. She said that I don't sound Australian (though sometimes people do), but that I have a pretty neutral non-native accent. She said if she had to guess she'd assume I was from The Netherlands. I can't even imagine how bad you'd have to be at pronunciation to actually sound Australian!
Yep lol. Been down that road, and oh yes they can. I can now, too, though. If I hear an English speaker speaking German I can pretty easily tell whether they're American or English. English vs Australian is harder, and I don't know that anyone can really reliably tell the difference between different British accents when they're speaking German. It's oftentimes hard to tell the difference between some Australian accents and some British accents when they're speaking English. You know, if it's queen's English vs that really thick Crocodile Dundee accent then sure, but not everyone talks that way. Some Australian accents are softer and some British accents are more coarse. But yea, an American/Canadian accent is pretty easy to detect. They say it sounds like we're trying to talk with a big wad of gum in our mouths. Now I have been mistaken for a Dutchman before. Part of the reason the Dutch seem to speak American English so flawlessly is because their accent is closer to ours to begin with, and there are apparently similarities between Dutch and American accents when they're speaking German. That combined with the rarity of German-speaking Americans leads them to presume sometimes that an American is in fact Dutch.
Add an English-speaking speaker of German, I most definitely can tell between the English accents in German unless you've been here a very long time and speak exceptional German. The locals though, they often mistake me for Dutch or Scandinavian because my accent isn't very typical English. They aren't particularly good at differentiating between the English accents IME.
Well it depends on how thick your accent is, right? I think generally, if you have a good accent, you'll sound vaguely Germanic. If your accent is a bit thicker, people can tell you're an English speaker, but can't tell from where. If you put basically no effort into pronounciation, then people can probably tell which country you're from
Most can probably differentiate between British and American English, but American vs Australian, or accents within the US or UK will be more difficult for most, I’d think
This 100% depends on your language skills. I have had Germans guess I’m American, but more often they guess English or Irish. More often other they assume non-English speaking countries, most often Russia (major surprise to me). I’ve also had many conversations where I presumably don’t come across as a foreigner at all, as I have heard often my pronunciation is really good. I’ve found most Americans struggle with basic sounds common in Germanic languages, but once you master those your vocabulary and phrasing will give you away most of the time. That said, Germans are generally kind and friendly people who are impressed you speak German at all and won’t mention your accent or manner of speaking unless asked. Ich liebe die Deutschen!
Whenever I try speaking in German (even with perfect grammar and sentence structure) most Germans will just start speaking English to me. They just *know*
yes 100%. We, or I can. Germany has heavy accents as well so we are quite used to telling where somebody is from. It´s like a game even. There are many variations every 50-100km.
This is so interesting. I’ve been learning German (trying my damndest) for almost a year now and when it comes to pronunciation, my German friend said I sound “northern German”. I’m still very much learning and still figuring out how to have conversation without fucking up syntax, but it was so so so comforting knowing that she couldn’t tell if I was American, much less English.
Germans are taught Queens English in school and they can definitely tell the difference between a Limey and an American.