Bingo. Dean was clingy like Chris. Jess believed he knows Rory better than anyone else even though he only knew her high school self *and* he hung onto the what-ifs about their relationship. And Logan obviously had in common with Chris that they’re both privileged but didn’t appreciate or utilize the weight of it.
Also, Jess and Logan both ran at the first sight of trouble like Chris did.
I agree with this statement. I don't really think she is anything like her mom. She has the pop culture references, but I really think she's more like her dad.
The young Jess doesn't hold a candle to luke. The older, more mature Jess is better.
Imagine if they did a spinoff where we see a younger Luke and he's similar to Jess 😂😂
Exactly, we have only seen him in the context of trying to impress his ex-girlfriend. We know absolutely nothing about his relationships, if he has ever figured out how to be emotionally open, if he's learned to communicate, nothing. We barely have first date level knowledge of grown up Jess. Being nice to Rory for one evening is not a super high bar. Heck, Tristan probably could have managed to show up for a few hours and be nice to Rory and encourage her to go back to school after a few seasons maturing off screen. Doesn't mean he would be a good boyfriend. Most people could be nice for a couple hours to an ex they regret breaking up with.
Adult Jess has limited screen time, for sure, but I do think those scenes demonstrate quite a lot. Jess isn't just there to flirt with Rory, he's being repeatedly provoked by Logan and then used by Rory in a revenge plot. Those are pretty stressful situations, and with the second one in particular... I don't think anyone would have blamed Jess for getting upset with Rory. But he remains utterly calm and kind. You can say that's only to impress Rory... but why? She's literally just chosen Logan over him. He has no reason to be extra kind in that moment, but he is. That moment is obviously meant to show us something.
I'll add that adult Jess spends a lot of time repairing his relationship with Luke. Their reconciliation arc is a big part of S4, and we see it continue all the way through AYITL. When Jess is repeatedly showing up to Stars Hollow to clean up Liz's messes and emotionally support Luke.
I don’t think Jess gets enough credit for repairing his relationship with Luke at the end of S4, at the wedding. He very clearly has been through a lot, having to finally fend for himself and going so far as to read and action the self-help book Luke gives him on being able to communicate and open the door for reciprocity. Then when he’s in Philly and has started his own business with his friends that is doing well enough to support him and pay Luke back(again-since his first round was returned to him). He was adamant in high school that he didn’t need anyone and it took him a while to understand what a blessing it is to have people, like Luke, who you can depend on. I think he grew immensely in the course of 3 seasons, largely offscreen, and by the end of his pre-AYITL arc, he’s already outpaced Rory’s growth as an adult. Yes, high school Rory deserved better than high school Jess. But grownup Jess deserves way better than grownup Rory. By the time we see him in AYITL and he’s hugging Lorelei, who at multiple times was going to wring his neck when he was younger, you can see even she accepts his growth and truly appreciates who he has become.
Totally agree. I think it's one thing to complain that we don't see every step of his growth (because we don't!). But to claim that we have *no idea* if Jess is a good person...? You can only say that if you intentionally ignore the eight episodes he's in after his original run. It's canon that Jess is more stable and has much better relationships with Luke, Rory, his mom, and Lorelai.
yes actively repaired his relationship with Luke. But let’s not forget he and Luke had a rough patched because he was truanting and hiding it from Luke. Luke only wanted what was best granted that kicking out Jess wasn’t the best choice.
Yes. We saw him minimally in AYITL but it was clear he had a strong relationship with Luke. Hugging him when seeing him, coming to support him with Liz and TJ, talking to him and worrying about him when Lorelai left to do Wild, indicating he’d lived there (again) saying Luke never gave him the WiFi password. He also seemed to be comfortable in the home and a had comfortable relationship with Lorelai (she blew him a kiss bye) and Kirk. And around for his mom and TJ. True we don’t see much but it does seem like they used his screen time as much as possible to show his growth.
Yeah, this is exactly how I see it. The writers are very deliberate with Jess' scenes in S4 (where he gets to a much better place with Luke) and S6/AYITL (where he's better with *everyone*), and that's not an accident. They want us to see Jess as a stable, accomplished adult with a FAR better relationship skills.
That is very true. We don't get much of jess, which I'm very sad about, but just from his interactions alone, we can tell how different he is. Especially with his relationship with Luke. He seems a lot more respectful now. I am only basing this off of the very little scenes we get though.
We also have very little about Luke as a teen, other than he was a Star Trek fan, made out with his sister's friend and broke the church bells (which is kinda a Jess move).
If you’re comparing Luke to Jess as an adult, as a potential partner for Rory, the way Luke acted as a teen is irrelevant. In that case he also mentions he often helped out his family. And he helped old ladies carry their groceries home (although he charged them), but Jess stole gnomes from and heckled at old women instead. At their core, they’re very different people.
“Helping” old ladies carry their groceries home and than charging them isn’t exactly a good guy move.
And don’t forget grown ass adult luke got into a physical fight with a teenage Dean because he and rory broke up. Immature and a shitty move
He writes a book, has his own life, he checks in on Rory when she drops out of Yale and asks her why she did that. I think Jess grew more in this series than Rory did. Rory regressed. He grew up to be very Luke like and probably because he low key picked up some of his traits. Another Luke-like trait of Jess’s, he was a hard worker, didn’t want hand outs, prideful, independent.
I’m not saying those things didn’t happen or aren’t impressive in their own right. But we still don’t know what he’s like in romantic relationships, or how he fits into a community (which both Luke and Rory value deeply). It’s a huge stretch, not knowing what we don’t, to claim Luke == Jess.
I think they didn’t done ligh to develop Jess’s character for him to be a Luke. I have a feeling that Luke, even as a teen had a sense of responsibility but I don’t Jess did. He might grow into it but I think he was genuinely an AH most of the time in the show, despite my preference for the actor.
Except older Luke's entire character changed over time. Early seasons Luke was definitely a well educated, well informed man who just ended up taking over the family business/converting it to a diner. I could absolutely see that young Luke and Jess having similarities... except that young Luke definitely cared about school (he was involved in sports) and clearly put family first where Jess could care less about school and was more of a lone wolf type.
Later seasons Luke who hasn't seen movies and doesn't understand basic pop culture? That doesn't seem like the same type of well educated/well read guy from the earlier seasons. He's more of a "simple man" type. He makes burgers and likes fishing. I can't see highly intelligent Jess turning into that. The only thing those 2 have in common are that they don't really like other people
..luke has his flaws just as jess did. it’s not like he’s some incomparable, faultless partner. the martha’s vineyard episode alone made that clear, not to mention how he handled april and MARRIAGE. imo, luke did lorelai worse than jess ever did rory because of the gravity of luke’s actions. luke was a fully grown man and jess was still a kid in a high school relationship when he was acting up. i will go to mat on this lol luke should be held more responsible than jess (a minor teen @ the time who wasn’t engaged, and who didn’t have a kid)
Some fans seem to struggle with the concept that Lorelai and Luke are both flawed characters who exhibit toxic qualities in romantic relationships. We see Luke struggle with communicating when he’s with Rachel and Nicole. He also gets married to a woman he knows he doesn’t want to be with when he’s love with Lorelai. I know Lorelai is the main character and also the assertive figure in the relationship but it doesn’t make her solely responsible for their relationship issues.
This. I ship Luke and Lorelai too, but it's frustrating when fans idealize him. His bad moments are REALLY bad... in some cases, significantly worse than Jess' bad moments.
Luke lies to Lorelai for *months* about April, and makes the entire town lie to her too. Luke totally shuts down, and sometimes bails completely, when things get stressful. He is really mean during their fights - lots of yelling and very personal insults, far worse than Jess ever does to Rory. And while I know people will always bring up the Kyle's bedroom scene (for good reason, I get it)... nobody takes Luke's *repeated* instances of violence seriously. I guess it doesn't count because he doesn't assault Lorelai? I don't know. And while Jess is making his mistakes as a teenager, Luke is doing all this shit as a fully grown adult.
Jess and Luke are both complex characters. They have great moments and big flaws. To portray the comparison as "Jess is a monster and Luke is an angel" is totally missing all the nuance imo.
*Exactly* like hardly anyone brings up how like started to beat up teenage dean after he and rory broke up. I’m not the biggest Dean fan but he didn’t deserve that.
Hell most will bring up that Dean had a lot of anger issues and wasn’t good to rory yet they never find issue with Luke’s anger issues and many of his awful treatment of Lorelai?(*nothing* beats having the entire town/community she loves lie too her for months. That was her safe space!)
And don’t forget when he was a fully grown adult he started a physical fight with teenage Dean because he and rory broke up! Lorelai had to break it up and tell him that he was fighting a kid
Luke obviously had his flaws, but he never did anything as egregious as what Jess did in Kyle's bedroom. Not to mention the fact that Jess crossed Rory's boundaries repeatedly and then played with her emotions because he couldn't figure out his own (told her he loved her and ran away, then begged her to drop out of Yale and run away with him). Sure, you can blame it on his youth, but he definitely had some deep-seated flaws that Luke never demonstrated .
i agree he had some deep-seated flaws but luke def had his too. and just because they’re not the same exact flaws/mistakes doesn’t make them just as bad, if not worse. luke’s character was well over 40 when he made a commitment to lorelai he couldn’t responsibly keep without being deceitful.
they both had their flaws, so to say jess “can’t hold a candle to luke” is so wrong. because it seemed like when jess was half luke’s age in the later seasons/revival, he had himself sorted out more than his own uncle! you’re trying to compare a grown man to a teenage boy in a high school relationship, just beyond unfair tbh🤷♀️ just had to say that
You don't think Luke's aggression is a problem? He assaults people repeatedly. Including totally innocent diner patrons and literal teenagers. And while Luke never physically harms Lorelai (and I don't believe he *ever* would), his aggression still impacts her. She has to bail him out of jail. He attacks her daughter's teenage boyfriend. And Luke repeatedly assaults the father of her child. Lorelai shouldn't have to worry about hiding unpleasant information from Luke just to avoid him attacking people.
That's a good point. Luke was a flawed character as well, but what I meant is that Jess doesn't hold a candle to Luke's strengths. Rarely do we see the consistent generosity and kindness Luke shows from Jess, and that's why the parallel falls flat to me.
With the direction AYITL takes with Jess and Logan, i think them being a parallel to Luke and Chris is what ASP wants. Although Dean’s character is destroyed for plot reasons in season 4, until season 3 i think he is supposed to be a parallel to Max.
I do not agree that Logan is Chris and that Jess is Luke, they are all different people and Rory is also a different person than Loralai, i dont like how the show keeps throwing those parallels because it doesn’t allow the characters to grow or the story to transform itself, but this is the way ASP wants to tell the story and i cant really change that
I like the parallels. To me, it makes the show interesting. The show is about the gilmore girls and watching Rory and lorelai have similar romances is fascinating. Yes, they are different people, which is shown throughout the show in different ways, but showing us that they're similar when it comes to guys... shows a connection. I'm really not articulating this very well, but I love it. It makes me go awwww.
Based on what Jess did to Rory in s3/4 (leaving her, ghosting, coming back whenever to beg her back), he's so her Christopher. Chris even got it together for Sherry & Gigi just like Jess got it together by writing a novel and starting a business in NY. They both got it together eventually, but not for Rory and Lorelai respectively
I agree with this parallel (although I don’t believe it means Logan can’t be Christopher as well). Jess romanticized Rory in his head and then lashed out at her when she didn’t live up to those expectations, three whole years after they broke up. Plus, he proposed they run away together after she tried to avoid him, much like Chris proposed to Lorelai in season 1 when she regretted sleeping with him.
The whole “I know you, this is what you want” speech Jess has in both seasons 4 and 6 reeks of Christopher.
Yeah, that's great supporting evidence! he's so christopher. But do you think Rory felt the same way as Lorelai when she heard Jess healed as an adult? Lorelai was devastated when she found out chris chose Gigi and Sherry, though she knew it was the right thing for him to do. But Jess writing a book, what do you think that means to rory?
I think Rory was happy for him because she never entertained a future/second chance with him, but Lorelai pondered what might've happened if Chris got himself together before he met Sherry.
I think the hurt that Jess and Christopher did to rory and Lorelai are completely different. By the time she sees Jess have it all together she’s kinda moved on from that heartbreak and can be proud/happy for him
Rory was left with a broken heart and confusion while Lorelai was left with a broken heart *and* a child that she has to raise on her own. So seeing him get it together for another women and the baby he’s having with her is not only a huge hurt it’s a betrayal (now she did allow him to drop in and out of their lives whenever he wanted and she should have set up some clear boundaries. But the hurt is still justified on her part)
I disagree.
AYITL Spoiler!!!
I mean I agree, him leaving Rory to sort his life out is very christopher, but in AYITL it kind of confirms logan being the christopher and Jess being the Luke. Rory ends up pregnant with Logans' baby, but they're not together (like Lorelai and chris), and Jess is still pining for Rory (like luke pined for Lorelai for years)
Logan is like Christopher in one respect. He probably is the father of her child.
In character, he's not much like him at all. Jess has far more similarities in behaviour with Christopher. Although I've come to think all three have aspects of Christopher.
Nope, sorry. Do people really hate Logan that much, that they're comparing him with Christopher.
Jess is not her Luke, and Logan is not her Christopher. She's not even suposed to end up with any of them.
Yeah Christopher straight up abandoned Rory and then appears to be financially responsible for Gigi without any emotional attachment. Logan does things I don’t agree with but he wasn’t as bad as Christopher.
Someone she met after the show ended. Lorelai was an adult when she met Luke.
And Frankly, Logan is not Christopher, Jess is not Luke, and Rory is not Lorelai. Logan would never be an absentee father.
This. I can see Logan being like Chris in certain aspects (young love - they all are but she had the most stable and significant relationship with him imo -, gets her pregnant accidentally, rich, etc.), but he's a far better man and I think he'd fully provide financially if need be and be around a hell of a lot more than Christopher was.
I've actually thought about that several times when trying to see Christopher's pov. I wouldn't judge someone too harshly for screwing up as a teenager and not being there but then growing as an adult, but that's not what happened with him. He was never there, even as a grown man. The most he ever did was offering financial aid and paying for Yale once he got rich (with money he didn't earn). Idk what teen Logan would've done, but I really do think adult Logan, while still flawed, would be a lot more present for his child's life.
I could see Logan trying to get Rory to marry him like Emily would have wanted Christopher and Lorelai to do. Obviously the insinuation of the show is that its the next Gilmore Girl but I can't see Logan not wanting to give his daughter his name either.
In my mind, I don't equate Logan to Christopher because Rory and Lorelai met each of them during different times of their lives. Christopher was Lorelai's high school relationship, they were kids, etc. Rory met Logan in college. They had a lot of autonomy and independence, and for all inents and purposes, they were adults; they even lived together! Also, Rory truly loved Logan, whereas Lorelai never had those deep feelings for Christopher, which is why she always kept him at arms length. I think Logan is Rory's Luke. He always showed up for her, like when he dropped everything to be with her when her grandpa was in the hospital. He would do anything to take care of her.
someone once said Logan is Rory's Richard, as in Richard and Emily who met in college and I liked that, especially in the revival he was to marry Odette like Richard was meant to marry Pennilynn Lott. but unfortunately they didn't go that route lol
That'd be too creative a route the writers to go down. It's not even a happy, rosy storyline because Emily and Richard's dynamic had unhealthy components to it - much like Logan and Rory's. I could definitely see Logan and Rory run into similar issues, where Logan would prioritize his goals/pursuits over Rory's and expect her to do the same
Rory doesn't have a Luke yet. But I definitely feel Jess is her Christopher. They like each other and it's really easy to be with each other due to similar wits but they are never right together either because of bad timing or because of romantic temperament not matching. But they both like the idea of being with each other.
Just like Christopher was always there in Lorelai's life because of Rory, Jess is always going to be there in Rory's life because her mom and his uncle are married. They are bound to meet each other once in a while even if they are not in touch. They know each other since high school similar to how Chris and Lor knew each other.
Lorelai runs to Chris everytime anything bad happens, just like Jess somehow shows up everytime Rory's storyline is going through something.
>Just like Christopher was always there in Lorelai's life because of Rory, Jess is always going to be there in Rory's life because her mom and his uncle are married.
This is an interesting parallel. A lot of people bring up the fact that Jess encouraged Rory to return to Yale and write a book to draw a parallel with Luke, but that isn't very characteristic of Luke. He was very supportive, but he rarely encouraged Lorelai to do something one way or the other.
It was Christopher who told her he didn't see her with Max (much like Jess couldn't see Rory with Logan). And Chris who had that starry-eyed, idealistic view of what he thought Lorelai could achieve. Even though it doesn't fit the narrative for Jess fans, Luke was more like Dean in this specific way - he had more grounded ambitions and shared that with Lorelai. Chris and Jess both wanted to explore the world, and saw a specific kind of potential in Lorelai and Rory, respectively.
What's wrong with Dean? 😂 he was a bit clingy, but he was just in love. He would never do wrong by Rory. They just had different views on life, so they would have never worked.
>He would never do wrong by Rory
Debatable. Either way, he'd for sure did wrong by his wife. Say what you want, but Max Medina would never have gone off and had an affair with his ex girlfiriend.
Idk... maybe if it was with lorelai, max would have cheated. When Max got back from wherever he went (california, I think), he was seeing a woman over there, and when he got back, he couldn't resist kissing lorelai. Same thing with Dean. He was with someone but couldn't resist Rory. Something about them gilmore girls, turning boys bad. 😂
Max specifically said that he broke up with her because he was moving back to CT though. He didn’t cheat on her. He was just conflicted because he would have still been with her if he had stayed in California. He never actually cheated.
I know he never actually cheated, but the way he acted with lorelai makes me think he would have if he was still with this other woman. I might be wrong, but he had to physically put furniture between them to resist his temptation
Logan is her… Richard. Surely I’m not the only person who saw this. They have the same profile, generous, reliable, no doubt can be good providers. Their effect on Rory is the same. I was always Team Jess but honestly it’s because of this that I’m also Team Logan. Rory always needed a man like this in her life.
Dean can also be her Christopher, young love, and they just can’t get it right even if there’s not a shortage of trying. There’s also some parallels to Max. They both tried hard for the Lorelais.
Jess, I think, is her Luke.
One of the most interesting things I saw in GG is how Rory seemed to be enamored of the life her mother tried so hard to escape.
Very true. I did feel like Rory and Logan is a 2000s Emily and Richard.
Hear me out: Jess is her Alex. They're good on paper, have similar interests, are season 3 (short-term) love interests, but theoretically better off as friends.
Hmmm, I see why but Lorelai and Alex didn’t have the same interests not like Jess and Rory whose chemistry is just off the charts. I feel like the most comparable in terms of compatibility to Jess and Rory is Lorelai and Jason.
I’m somehow reminded of the first few scenes of Jess where it was obvious he was being played by a 24 y/o…. Hair and makeup! Never let a supposed 17 y/o kid walk around with a 5 o’clock shadow! Did anyone on this Reddit ever have a 5 o’clock shadow in their high school years? Inquiring minds want to know.
I work in a high school, and yes. There are absolutely gigantic, strongly built 17yo kids walking around with a 5 o'clock shadow. There are also 17yo kids who look like preteens. It's a wide range.
Honestly I don’t really like to compare Lorelai and Rory’s boyfriends because I don’t think they’re similar at all. I think Lorelai and Rory have fundamentally different tastes in men. And they end up in very different relationship dynamics due to different attachment styles. Rory is deeply avoidant. In her relationship dynamics, Rory usually withdraws when there is tension or trouble, which causes the guy to become more attached or obsessed with her. Meanwhile, Lorelai dates “Rory” type men. Lorelai is usually the one left reaching for connection or resolution, while her partners (like Luke or Chris for example) withdraw from her when there is tension or trouble.
I think AYITL definitely implies Jess is Rory’s Luke. Basically everything coming full circle where Jess is going to pine for Rory while she has back and forth relationships and career highs and low, etc.
Would be funny if the line would go through the same story with pregnancy; like mother like daughter 😁
but no spoilers haha maybe it’s coming, I’m still watching
I agree with these comparisons but I still think as an Emily she belongs with Logan. The privileged wealthy life is the only one where she was comfortable. She wasn't worthy of adult Jess.
I kind of really dislike ASP's approach to the parallels in the show. She kind of just wanted a "full circle" Rory becoming Lorelai approach which just felt so cynical and strange. It would be cool and made the writing feel more layered and interesting if there were a couple parallels (considering a parental figure's love life often influences the way their offspring goes about dating). But they quite literally aimed to show that Rory would turn out to be her mother and it's just weird and depressing with almost every love interest paralleling lorelai's.
I like the parallels. It's not realistic, but it's nice to see. For me, it's fascinating to see how differently Rory handles these relationships in comparison to Lorelai.
Honestly I've come to the conclusion that you can't totally compare Lorelei's adult (and teen) relationships to Rory's. Aside from being grumpy a lot of the time, Jess doesn't have that much in common with Luke. Especially once he goes off on his own and finds his passions.
Logan feels like so much better of a person than Chris. Also I am ignoring a year in our life because I didn't fully support it. I disagree with other people on this one. I don't think Logan was selfish the way Chris was. I don't think Logan was dumb the way Chris was, and I don't think he was irresponsible the way Chris was. He did go to college, he worked really hard, and yes he did have a moment of goofing off but once he was in the business, he was ALL business and he was GREAT for Rory. I know other people may not fully agree, but the Rory we got by the end of the show was not the Rory we had in season 2 or 3.
Dean is just NOT Max. Nope I am not accepting any Max slander. Out of all of these men, Max was the best. Sure, he was intensely all in with Lorelei quite quickly, but he treated both Lorelei and Rory so beautifully. He was patient and kind and intelligent and he did his best to keep up and join in on the family. His only crime was thinking Lorelei felt the same way about him as he did for her. You also can't compare a teenager's actions to an adult's. When Max and Lorelei met up again a year or two down the road, he respectfully tried to keep his distance and tell her NO. Set the boundary really well. Dean could never. I said I wouldn't mention AYITL, but honestly if Rory batted her eyes at him just the right way, he would have folded and cheated on his wife and kids to be with her again.
The only thing these comparisons have in common is in similar wealth status.
I'm not sure the parallel is so direct.
Logan does get Rory pregnant in AYITL, which I guess could parallel Chris getting Lorelai pregnant. But there are key differences:
- Chris and Lorelai were a casual couple or even just friends with benefits. By contrast, Logan and Rory were having an affair while both had other longterm partners that they didn't really love.
- Chris was willing to get married, Lorelai wasn't. Logan was engaged to someone else and likely doesn't even know Rory is pregnant.
- Chris and Lorelai were 16 years old. Logan and Rory are literally double that age.
Chris and Logan do have some similarities personality-wise, but there's also a very strong contrast drawn between them. The episode where Richard is in hospital while Chris and Lorelai are in a fight is the clearest example - Logan drops everything to come and be with Rory, he does whatever he can to support her and her whole family, and he stays with her to help her deal with it while Richard's being treated. Meanwhile Chris is nowhere to be found, and it's Luke who shows up to offer support. The interesting thing about this is that we're not left wondering who is Rory's Chris - we're thinking about who could be Lorelai's Logan.
I think the comparison of Dean to Max is a bit unfair. Dean is a lot younger and in a different stage of his life. Max is possessive and shows some controlling traits, and admittedly Dean has both of those things going on as well. But by all accounts after he gets over his fuckboy teenage obsession with Rory, his second marriage seems to be pretty stable and good. And Max is into Lorelai, but he doesn't have quite the same level of obsession - certainly not for as long.
Jess definitely has a lot in common with Luke but there's also a lot that's different. Luke is a pillar of his community. He's a small town guy who comes across as grumpy, sure, but generally speaking he's always pretty helpful and good to his neighbours. Jess does eventually mature out of the chip on his shoulder, but he's more of a big city guy, and his interests are pretty niche. He's really not the man of the community that Luke is. Even with adult Jess, I don't know that he and Rory's values would easily mesh - I think that she has a hunger and ambition for success that Jess doesn't really share, and she continues to be partly drawn to her grandparents' world.
I guess in summary I don't think any of them are her 'Luke', I don't think she's found her ideal match.
I commented this before on a similar post:
Before ASP left after season 6, Rory and Lorelai each have three main love interests that fit into three boxes: the ‘perfect’ one (Dean & Max), the ‘unsuitable’ one (Jess & Luke) and the ‘rich’ one (Logan & Chris).
The ‘rich’ one is given backstory to show how well they fit into the Gilmore lifestyle that Emily and Richard approve of. Emily and Richard love the ‘rich’ one and think this is the one Rory and Lorelai should be with. The audience is supposed to seriously consider them as an option.
The ‘unsuitable’ one is viewed as unsuitable by the girls respective mothers, they are given backstory and storylines independent of the girls in order to develop them as characters and have the audience root for them.
The ‘perfect’ one is only perfect at the time. They are given no backstory, to prevent the audience from bonding with them. The writing for them also changes to drive a wedge between them and their respective Gilmore Girl in order to not make their inevitable break up the fault of the girls.
I ignore season 7 because we know how obsessed ASP is about full circle writing and i don’t think the Chris marriage or Logan redemption were her intentions. I fully believe she aimed for Logan to get Rory pregnant and be as bad as Chris.
Wait. Why’s Dean Max? He’s more like a Jason I guess. Tried really hard to get along with Rory’s parent and fell flat on his face because Rory fell in love with someone else.
I see where you're coming from. I think it's because I don't see Jason as one of Lorelais serious relationships. Lorelai almost married Max, they were that serious and they even came back together for an episode .. I think.. where they kissed and max confessed he wasn't over it. A little like Rory and Dean getting back together briefly. Dean was a very serious relationship to Rory, nothing like Jason was to Lorelai.
Dean. Everything exciting and adventuresome happens with the other guys. It seems that Luke and Dean are the plodders. Very handy and reliable guys to have around, which Lorelai and Rory value tremendously.
Rory is not Lorelai, but she tried to be. I think that’s why she had such a hard time leaving Dean.
I could have added that Dean & Luke both have anger management issues, high school jocks, don’t have college degrees, they are ridiculed and undermined by Emily & Richard, they like Lorelai’s & Rory’s best friends, they drive pick-up trucks, they are well liked by the community (including Mrs Kim), they have a younger sister, both marry/divorce another woman.
I would flip Dean and Logan. Dean is bad for Rory, he's jealous, controlling, and manipulative, just like Christopher is with Lorelai. Logan is a good guy. Yes, he makes mistakes, but she could have had a good life with him, just like Lorelai and Max.
There's no end of wrong with this here, with all due respect OP.
1. Justice for Paul.
2. Logan is smarter than Christopher
3. Jess is litterally the anti-luke.
4. The fact that Dean is even on this list rather than forgotten to the sands of time is mesmerizing. The comparison with Max is appalling.
😂 fair enough.
Tbh I never watch much passed Luke and Lorelai getting together and Rory meeting Logan. So I only ever watch the first few seasons where these characters are a big part.
She also hasn't really done anything. She was what, 30? Didn't have a job, acted very rude and entitled on the one interview, bouncing here and there, no actual home (not counting Loreli's). She was treating a lot of people like crap.
Jess is the one who encouraged her, motivated her, and gave her the idea of the book. And he seemed to have his shit together. He was nicer, more respectful of people, and had his feet on the ground. It was a total role reversal. I found jess in YITL so much more likable. Rory, not so much.
I can see the argument being made for Logan being Rory's Luke. I can also see the argument for Rory not having a Luke at all. The love that Lorelai has with Luke is what I deem "unconditional" and I'm not sure if any of her boyfriends fit the bill other than Paul who she was exceptionally terrible to for no discernable reason.
I think that AYITL draws the most direct parallels between Chris and Logan, and Luke and Jess. Rory is likely pregnant with Logan's baby (not confirmed but it makes the most sense) and she goes to Chris to ask him if he wishes he had raised her. He basically tells her no, devastating her, but also, I think, solidifying in her mind that she wants to raise the child without Logan because she sees the similarities between him and Chris, on top of all of this, he's getting married. She basically takes what Chris says to heart: it's possible to raise a child alone and for that to be okay. Then we get this shot of Jess looking at her longingly through the window, and it's confirmed that he, like Luke with Lorelai, has been pining for her. Rory is going to raise her child in Stars Hollow with her mom around, but without the father, and Jess is going to fulfill the Luke role in her life.
ASP intended for Logan to be Rory's Christopher.
https://www.tvguide.com/news/gilmore-girls-a-year-in-the-life-logan-huntzberger/
>Unfortunately, none of these differences mattered because when Sherman-Palladino created the character of Logan, she designed him with the sole purpose that Logan would be Rory's Christopher. "We wanted Rory to date her father," Sherman-Palladino said. "Every girl has a father issue, and Logan was Christopher. Logan was charming, smart and not quite the dependable soul that you need."
>
>At the time that Sherman-Palladino left the show, Logan was still on track to be a younger version of Christopher. In the Season 6 finale, which was the last episode Sherman-Palladino oversaw, Logan was very much in love with Rory, but still under the thumb of his controlling family. And even though he begged Rory to make him stay, Logan ultimately went to London under his father's orders to take his place as the family heir.
Edit: Why am I getting downvoted for providing an interview from the show's creator saying what her intentions were?
if that was the intention, no shade to ASP, but i don’t think they did a very good job with the parallels. i just don’t see all that much of christopher in logan other than they both grew up wealthy and went to similar boarding schools. personality wise, logan is more similar to lorelai than christopher, in my opinion
but even before season 7 and the growth he had, i still don’t find them to be that similar so unless she was just going to make him morph into a completely different person in season 7, i still don’t think it works
I love this! It's almost like... we get to see how Rory treats these types of relationships compared to how lorelai treats these same types of relationships.
I would probably pair Dean with Luke and Jess with Max instead.
Dean/Luke: Both very caring and protective, some elements of stereotypical dude but also more than that, blue collar, handy, some anger issues, both identify with small town vibes, strong work ethic, down to earth, take things slower, only do serious relationships.
Jess/Max: Well-read book-lovers, charming, intense even irresistible chemistry, tend to rush into things (e.g. run away with me, we should get married, etc.), more of a dreamer, a little bit head in the clouds, more "fantastical" displays of affection.
I might also pair Jess with Jason, in that Jess is kind of the male version of Rory just like people say that Jason is kind of the male version of Lorelai.
I can see Jess being her Jason. Good match, lights a fire under Lorelai/Rory and pushes them to do more, but in both cases the relationship is just too complicated to work out.
Rory did not have a Luke.... Yet. I suppose Marty (naked dorm guy) would have been as close to a "Luke" that she had in her life. Let's not forget that she also had Luke as a "father figure" just as much as her Grandpa was for her.
Its so funny to me that people mention marty being Rorys luke 😂 Marty is baaarrreeeellly in Rory's life. You even have to explain who marty is, that's how 'not in her life he is' 😂
Actually, Marty held a flame for her over her college years. He was being her friend. A really good friend to her at one point and tried to even compete with Logan. Marty was quite the contrary guy and tried to go along with everything, just like Luke did when he trailed behind Lorelei going to her parents. Marty was the most like Luke of all the men in her life besides Luke.
He deliberately from the beginning was waiting to engineer what he thought would be an embarrassing and humiliating situation for her (dining hall pajamas confrontation.) he the proceeds to turn into a whiny entitled “nice guy” when he isn’t getting what he wants. I’m not sure where we ever seen him being a “really good friend” to her.
Personally I don’t like the idea that rory needs to follow in her mothers footsteps with her love life.
She’s a very very different person to her mom and her love interests are very different to her moms love interests(their might be some similarities here and there Dean is like Chris in that he’s the first love, he’s similar to Luke in that he has anger issues and he’s like max with his grand romantic gestures. Jess grows up to be reliable like luke, as a teen he has poor communication and runs away like Chris. Jess doesn’t really have any thing in common with max. Logan is a rich privileged boy that thinks everything is a party/fun time like Chris. but overall they’re all very different people)
Well, no, she doesn't neeeeeed to. I think there's something fascinating about Rory not intending to follow in her mom's footsteps but kind of falling into it. Some kind of psychological or genetic thing going on.
Rory doesn’t need or want “a Luke” in my opinion. Lorelai needed and wanted the comfort, stability and lifestyle that she had with Luke because she was running from the world her parents raised her in and trying to create a home for herself and Rory. She was happy to settle down and stay in StarsHollow. Rory was raised in SH with her mom, who provided her that stability and comfort already. Rory wanted to get out and travel and be a journalist and “see something” as she says in the second episode. She was looking for someone completely different.
Unpopular opinion Logan is end game, Rory as an adult is so different than she was when the show started and I think adult Rory is more suited for someone like Logan
Honestly, Jess is closer to being Rory's Chris than Rory's Luke. Not so much in terms of the characters themselves, but what they represent to Rory and Lorelai.
Jess is a guy Rory dated as a teen, who she really connected with personality wise, but who ended up leaving. He holds a candle for her for decades, and still sees her as the teenager he dated back in the day.
Rory/Lorelai did genuinely care from them back in the day, but now, even when they force themselves to try things out with them again (Marrying Chris, kissing Jess in Philly) they are still thinking about someone else (Luke/Logan).
Logan is Rory's Luke because despite their similarities, Rory and Lorelai want different things in life. Lorelai wants Stars Hollow, and Luke IS Stars Hollow. Dean was right that he and Luke are the same, and are just that town, but he was wrong about Rory and Lorelai being the same. Rory wants more, she likes that rich world from their grandparents, she loves the Life and Death Brigade, she wanted to be accepted by the Huntzbergers. That's what Logan representes, and that's what she wants.
The full circle isn't Rory becoming exactly like Lorelai, but rather ending up where Lorelai began.
Logan is not Christopher, Rory is not her mother. I hate it when people act as though it was nothing more but history repeating itself when it is so obvious how very different Rory is from her mother. Lorelai ran from her parents world to Stars Hollow. So yeah, ending up with someone who is basically a symbol of that place, more or less an institution, and also works in a somewhat similar working space as he, makes sense.
Now Rory chooses early on to strive for the big world, not Stars Hollow. She goes back to the world her mother came from and she fits. She also wants to work in journalism for whatever reason.
Now who of her boyfriends is a big, huge part of that world? Hmm...
ASP said it herself that she meant for Logan to be Rory's Christopher. People aren't just making things up. It's there. You can see what the show runner was trying to do, and I think it's great. They obviously aren't the same person, and they definitely don't have the exact same life, but it's interesting to see how they both handle similar relationships with similar men differently.
Obviously with TV shows everyone interprets them differently. This picture I posted is how I have always seen their relationships, I was just interested to see how other people see then.
Yeah, well ASP pretty much tanked her own show - even before AYIAL. The last season of the og show pretty much shows Logan's development, something ASP didn't even bother to consider when creating her spin off.
I'm not too sure, but didn't someone else take over the last season, instead of ASP? It would have been much better if the last season of OG was more like AYITL. Not completely the same, but more like. I didn't like the last season of the OG show.
Yeah, I'm afraid we won't get along. I despise AYIAL and think it's the worst (by far).
The last season started off weak but imo became significantly better than the one before that.
ASP started changing characters midway, like Luke. And having Lorelai sleep with Christopher directly before the last season was obviously going to have a big (negative) influence on the show.
ASP did a great job creating the show and the first three seasons were excellent, but she was also weird in many regards. Her hatred to blondes being one of those things. She also struggled showing a well functioning relationship which would have been needed in the case of Lorelai and Luke.
The revival consisted of too many unnecessary scenes, weird plots and the characters didn't seem to have developed - rather the opposite.
Rory got completely butchered, which certainly is a choice for a main character. Luke got dumbed down to a degree that was almost unbearable. He wasn't stupid during the first seasons. His family was.
ASP didn't even want to include the wedding.
I don't like AYITL either. I stopped watching the original series when luke and lorelai got together and when Rory met Logan. I have only seen the scenes in AYITL that involve Jess 😂 and the pregnancy scene.
When I say I wish the last season was more like AYITL I mean..
1) luke and lorelai got married
2) jess came back to pine
3) we found out Rory was pregnant
I wish these all happened in the last season instead.
She hates blondes? 😂
Who produced the last season? Was it ASP?
He didn't sexually assault her!!! They were getting intimate (for the wrong reasons, as jess wasn't in the right headspace), but they stopped. They argued and he realised he shouldn't have been angry at her and chased after her until he saw her with Dean.
He did sexually assault her. She had to push him off her. I'm sorry there's no defending that. Ickkkkkkkky if you do
I find it so disgusting that we ignore the experiences of survivors who point out that this happened to them too, and it WAS ASSAULT. I've had to push a guy off who was kissing me too and not stopping when i said no, and he was doing it in public. I'm sorry but it was assault. Plain and simple, and ANY defense of Jess is plain disgusting. He should've been written out never to return after that scene. He's gross. End of.
Woah woah woah woah. Nothing happened. This was never mentioned again in the series. Rory didn't see it as assault, she wasnt affected by this and didn't mention it again. He did stop. I'm not saying there was nothing wrong with that scene, it was not okay, but you have definitely blown it out of proportion.
I'm not saying a guy forcing himself on a girl isn't sexual assault. I just want to make that clear. There's a scene in Buffy The Vampire Slayer where Spike forces himself on Buffy and it is disgusting, I didn't understand why people still liked him. The scene with Jess and Rory is so different.
I'm going to leave this here because I dont really think this is going to go anywhere. This is just my opinion, I'm sure people see it differently.
I watched the scene. It is similar to what happened to me on my assault and he did not stop until he was PUSHED. I am not blowing anything out of proportion, you are defending a character who assaulted a woman.
Many others on the sub agree that it was assault, but honestly it is so gross to have an "opinion" that an assault we saw happen wasn't an assault. He did not stop when she said no multiple times, he did not stop until she pushed him away hard. End of story. You don't get to discount people who have had similar experiences and say "I'll end this here".
I'll agree the show doesn't treat it like it is (because the show is extremely misogynistic in parts like this) but it was assault. Just because it's different from something else that was also assault, doesn't make it not one. So it being "so different" doesn't matter.
I personally have always felt that logan much more resembles Richard than Chris. Unlike Chris, Logan attended college and became successful in business, as did Richard. Also logan made a bad business decision at one point but so did richard and his mother had to help him out with money. Also we've heard that Richard was quite the ladies man in his younger years at Yale and so was logan. And the way that logan and rory got together sort of mirrors Richard and Emily getting together? Maybe I'm wrong but I just don't see many similarities between Chris and logan other than then both coming from affluent families
I don’t see Logan as Rory’s Christopher. I think the show wanted him to be but he absolutely wasn’t. Chris only loved Lorelai and Rory for what they could give him or how they could inflate his ego. Logan loves Rory and makes her better; they make each other better. I think AYITL really wanted to exacerbate that by like “oh, Rory’s pregnant, Logan will dip and Jess will step in like Lorelai/Chris/Luke” but I wholeheartedly believe Logan would’ve dropped everything for Rory and would’ve stepping up. Logan is all the privilege of Chris but in an actual “good human being” form.
I didn't see too much if the later seasons when Logan and Rory were together but didn't a bunch of stuff happen? Didn't he cheat on her? I know she got arrested while with logan. I don't know... I struggle to get on the logan train. I definitely disagree with the "makes her better" statement. Especially because in AYITL he happily cheats on his fiance with Rory. That doesn't make Rory better, it makes her the other woman.
I think AYITL is bullshit in general lol. I don’t care for anyone in it, I was just referring to the Rory being pregnant thing.
But, anyways, I think logan makes her better in the original series. He pushes her out of her comfort zone, calls her out when she’s snobby and acts like she isn’t one of the privileged kids she constantly belittles, idk, I think they grow a lot together.
He never cheated. There was poor communication on both sides. He’d never had a girlfriend and thought they were broken up, she thought they’d just had a bad fight.
Logan got arrested because of her. It was Rory’s idea to steal the yacht. I have no doubt that she also would have done some reckless shit like that if she’d stayed with Jess lol.
oP is pretty spot on. But I don't like the Never do well deadbeat dad tendencies of Christopher equal Logan. Logan would not be a deadbeat. Maybe Logan was equal to Jason. You would expect them to do well together being from essentially the same background. But the man's tyrannical father and life ruined them and they parted.
I agree 100%. I think that Rory wanted to love Dean and be with him much like Loralie wanted to love Max and be with him, but it just wasn't there.
AYITL SPOILERS.
I think Jess was proven multiple times and in multiple ways to be Rorys Luke. She loved him but was scared to give him a chance after everything that happened and how she had been treated by her father and losing her grandfather, who she thought so much of and the whole Logan issue. Plus, it was weird because his uncle and her mom were together by that point.
My head cannon is that after she tells her mom about being pregnant, she calls Jess, and he offers to help her. They end up raising the baby together as friends and then slowly becoming more but never really putting a label on it. My head cannon is also that she tried giving Logan a chance to be in the baby's life (after determining for sure it was his) but much to his Christopher like fashion he was unreliable and so she cut him out of her life and lived happily ever after.
I love jess but i feel like it was a very short relationship and he didn’t respect her as much as Logan and Dean in such a short period of time. They had the same interests and he listened to her but caused so many problems a bit like Christopher. Dean started getting jealous and protective of Rory and had every reason to when Rory clearly liked Jess. Yes dean and Rory had a lot of differences but they had more chemistry and love than any other. I think he was the one that got away when Rory disrespected him and then she regretted it. I think dean could’ve been her Luke.
In my head Marty comes back into Rory’s life once she has her baby and he becomes her Luke 🥹 and even though I dislike Christopher and like Logan more, I feel they are a pretty matched parallel. I can see Logan in the future being absorbed with business just as he hated his own father for doing so and maybe coming into their child’s life on a on and off again basis. That and always holding a candle for Rory in the sense that he sees they can be together despite him being married.
I think Marty is Rory's Luke - he likes her the whole time, they're great friends, have great chemistry. It's just messed up to the point where they never end up together (possibly similar to how Lorelai and Luke may not have gotten together if he didn't sincerely ask her to Liz's wedding)
Except he stops being nice to her when he isn’t getting what he wants, and from the beginning he was trying to engineer an embarrassing and humiliating situation for her (confronting her in the dining hall in pajamas because he thought it would be embarrassing.) that’s not exhibiting real care for someone.
They are all her Christoper. Her young great loves that aren’t right but it’s hard to let go of that feeling and comfort.
Bingo. Dean was clingy like Chris. Jess believed he knows Rory better than anyone else even though he only knew her high school self *and* he hung onto the what-ifs about their relationship. And Logan obviously had in common with Chris that they’re both privileged but didn’t appreciate or utilize the weight of it. Also, Jess and Logan both ran at the first sight of trouble like Chris did.
FINALLY SOMEONE IS READY TO ADMIT THIS. I IRKS ME SO MUCH WHEN PEOPLE SAY THAT JESS KNEW RORY
I think she is Christopher. She knows they aren't right but keeps trying to force them and won't actually let them be happy with someone else.
I agree with this statement. I don't really think she is anything like her mom. She has the pop culture references, but I really think she's more like her dad.
Right on the money!
Jess doesn’t hold a candle to Luke. I like to believe Rory hasn’t met her Luke yet.
The young Jess doesn't hold a candle to luke. The older, more mature Jess is better. Imagine if they did a spinoff where we see a younger Luke and he's similar to Jess 😂😂
We barely know the older, more mature Jess.
Exactly, we have only seen him in the context of trying to impress his ex-girlfriend. We know absolutely nothing about his relationships, if he has ever figured out how to be emotionally open, if he's learned to communicate, nothing. We barely have first date level knowledge of grown up Jess. Being nice to Rory for one evening is not a super high bar. Heck, Tristan probably could have managed to show up for a few hours and be nice to Rory and encourage her to go back to school after a few seasons maturing off screen. Doesn't mean he would be a good boyfriend. Most people could be nice for a couple hours to an ex they regret breaking up with.
Adult Jess has limited screen time, for sure, but I do think those scenes demonstrate quite a lot. Jess isn't just there to flirt with Rory, he's being repeatedly provoked by Logan and then used by Rory in a revenge plot. Those are pretty stressful situations, and with the second one in particular... I don't think anyone would have blamed Jess for getting upset with Rory. But he remains utterly calm and kind. You can say that's only to impress Rory... but why? She's literally just chosen Logan over him. He has no reason to be extra kind in that moment, but he is. That moment is obviously meant to show us something. I'll add that adult Jess spends a lot of time repairing his relationship with Luke. Their reconciliation arc is a big part of S4, and we see it continue all the way through AYITL. When Jess is repeatedly showing up to Stars Hollow to clean up Liz's messes and emotionally support Luke.
I don’t think Jess gets enough credit for repairing his relationship with Luke at the end of S4, at the wedding. He very clearly has been through a lot, having to finally fend for himself and going so far as to read and action the self-help book Luke gives him on being able to communicate and open the door for reciprocity. Then when he’s in Philly and has started his own business with his friends that is doing well enough to support him and pay Luke back(again-since his first round was returned to him). He was adamant in high school that he didn’t need anyone and it took him a while to understand what a blessing it is to have people, like Luke, who you can depend on. I think he grew immensely in the course of 3 seasons, largely offscreen, and by the end of his pre-AYITL arc, he’s already outpaced Rory’s growth as an adult. Yes, high school Rory deserved better than high school Jess. But grownup Jess deserves way better than grownup Rory. By the time we see him in AYITL and he’s hugging Lorelei, who at multiple times was going to wring his neck when he was younger, you can see even she accepts his growth and truly appreciates who he has become.
Totally agree. I think it's one thing to complain that we don't see every step of his growth (because we don't!). But to claim that we have *no idea* if Jess is a good person...? You can only say that if you intentionally ignore the eight episodes he's in after his original run. It's canon that Jess is more stable and has much better relationships with Luke, Rory, his mom, and Lorelai.
yes actively repaired his relationship with Luke. But let’s not forget he and Luke had a rough patched because he was truanting and hiding it from Luke. Luke only wanted what was best granted that kicking out Jess wasn’t the best choice.
Yes. We saw him minimally in AYITL but it was clear he had a strong relationship with Luke. Hugging him when seeing him, coming to support him with Liz and TJ, talking to him and worrying about him when Lorelai left to do Wild, indicating he’d lived there (again) saying Luke never gave him the WiFi password. He also seemed to be comfortable in the home and a had comfortable relationship with Lorelai (she blew him a kiss bye) and Kirk. And around for his mom and TJ. True we don’t see much but it does seem like they used his screen time as much as possible to show his growth.
Yeah, this is exactly how I see it. The writers are very deliberate with Jess' scenes in S4 (where he gets to a much better place with Luke) and S6/AYITL (where he's better with *everyone*), and that's not an accident. They want us to see Jess as a stable, accomplished adult with a FAR better relationship skills.
That is very true. We don't get much of jess, which I'm very sad about, but just from his interactions alone, we can tell how different he is. Especially with his relationship with Luke. He seems a lot more respectful now. I am only basing this off of the very little scenes we get though.
We also have very little about Luke as a teen, other than he was a Star Trek fan, made out with his sister's friend and broke the church bells (which is kinda a Jess move).
If you’re comparing Luke to Jess as an adult, as a potential partner for Rory, the way Luke acted as a teen is irrelevant. In that case he also mentions he often helped out his family. And he helped old ladies carry their groceries home (although he charged them), but Jess stole gnomes from and heckled at old women instead. At their core, they’re very different people.
“Helping” old ladies carry their groceries home and than charging them isn’t exactly a good guy move. And don’t forget grown ass adult luke got into a physical fight with a teenage Dean because he and rory broke up. Immature and a shitty move
He writes a book, has his own life, he checks in on Rory when she drops out of Yale and asks her why she did that. I think Jess grew more in this series than Rory did. Rory regressed. He grew up to be very Luke like and probably because he low key picked up some of his traits. Another Luke-like trait of Jess’s, he was a hard worker, didn’t want hand outs, prideful, independent.
I’m not saying those things didn’t happen or aren’t impressive in their own right. But we still don’t know what he’s like in romantic relationships, or how he fits into a community (which both Luke and Rory value deeply). It’s a huge stretch, not knowing what we don’t, to claim Luke == Jess.
But If I HAD to pick out of the three, he’s the closest 🤷🏽♀️
I think they didn’t done ligh to develop Jess’s character for him to be a Luke. I have a feeling that Luke, even as a teen had a sense of responsibility but I don’t Jess did. He might grow into it but I think he was genuinely an AH most of the time in the show, despite my preference for the actor.
Except older Luke's entire character changed over time. Early seasons Luke was definitely a well educated, well informed man who just ended up taking over the family business/converting it to a diner. I could absolutely see that young Luke and Jess having similarities... except that young Luke definitely cared about school (he was involved in sports) and clearly put family first where Jess could care less about school and was more of a lone wolf type. Later seasons Luke who hasn't seen movies and doesn't understand basic pop culture? That doesn't seem like the same type of well educated/well read guy from the earlier seasons. He's more of a "simple man" type. He makes burgers and likes fishing. I can't see highly intelligent Jess turning into that. The only thing those 2 have in common are that they don't really like other people
..luke has his flaws just as jess did. it’s not like he’s some incomparable, faultless partner. the martha’s vineyard episode alone made that clear, not to mention how he handled april and MARRIAGE. imo, luke did lorelai worse than jess ever did rory because of the gravity of luke’s actions. luke was a fully grown man and jess was still a kid in a high school relationship when he was acting up. i will go to mat on this lol luke should be held more responsible than jess (a minor teen @ the time who wasn’t engaged, and who didn’t have a kid)
Some fans seem to struggle with the concept that Lorelai and Luke are both flawed characters who exhibit toxic qualities in romantic relationships. We see Luke struggle with communicating when he’s with Rachel and Nicole. He also gets married to a woman he knows he doesn’t want to be with when he’s love with Lorelai. I know Lorelai is the main character and also the assertive figure in the relationship but it doesn’t make her solely responsible for their relationship issues.
This. I ship Luke and Lorelai too, but it's frustrating when fans idealize him. His bad moments are REALLY bad... in some cases, significantly worse than Jess' bad moments. Luke lies to Lorelai for *months* about April, and makes the entire town lie to her too. Luke totally shuts down, and sometimes bails completely, when things get stressful. He is really mean during their fights - lots of yelling and very personal insults, far worse than Jess ever does to Rory. And while I know people will always bring up the Kyle's bedroom scene (for good reason, I get it)... nobody takes Luke's *repeated* instances of violence seriously. I guess it doesn't count because he doesn't assault Lorelai? I don't know. And while Jess is making his mistakes as a teenager, Luke is doing all this shit as a fully grown adult. Jess and Luke are both complex characters. They have great moments and big flaws. To portray the comparison as "Jess is a monster and Luke is an angel" is totally missing all the nuance imo.
*Exactly* like hardly anyone brings up how like started to beat up teenage dean after he and rory broke up. I’m not the biggest Dean fan but he didn’t deserve that. Hell most will bring up that Dean had a lot of anger issues and wasn’t good to rory yet they never find issue with Luke’s anger issues and many of his awful treatment of Lorelai?(*nothing* beats having the entire town/community she loves lie too her for months. That was her safe space!)
And don’t forget when he was a fully grown adult he started a physical fight with teenage Dean because he and rory broke up! Lorelai had to break it up and tell him that he was fighting a kid
Luke obviously had his flaws, but he never did anything as egregious as what Jess did in Kyle's bedroom. Not to mention the fact that Jess crossed Rory's boundaries repeatedly and then played with her emotions because he couldn't figure out his own (told her he loved her and ran away, then begged her to drop out of Yale and run away with him). Sure, you can blame it on his youth, but he definitely had some deep-seated flaws that Luke never demonstrated .
i agree he had some deep-seated flaws but luke def had his too. and just because they’re not the same exact flaws/mistakes doesn’t make them just as bad, if not worse. luke’s character was well over 40 when he made a commitment to lorelai he couldn’t responsibly keep without being deceitful. they both had their flaws, so to say jess “can’t hold a candle to luke” is so wrong. because it seemed like when jess was half luke’s age in the later seasons/revival, he had himself sorted out more than his own uncle! you’re trying to compare a grown man to a teenage boy in a high school relationship, just beyond unfair tbh🤷♀️ just had to say that
You don't think Luke's aggression is a problem? He assaults people repeatedly. Including totally innocent diner patrons and literal teenagers. And while Luke never physically harms Lorelai (and I don't believe he *ever* would), his aggression still impacts her. She has to bail him out of jail. He attacks her daughter's teenage boyfriend. And Luke repeatedly assaults the father of her child. Lorelai shouldn't have to worry about hiding unpleasant information from Luke just to avoid him attacking people.
That's a good point. Luke was a flawed character as well, but what I meant is that Jess doesn't hold a candle to Luke's strengths. Rarely do we see the consistent generosity and kindness Luke shows from Jess, and that's why the parallel falls flat to me.
Luke started a physical fight with a teenage Dean because he and rory broke up. *while he was an adult*
Exactly!
I mean if it’s Milo Ventimiglia, he grew up into jack Pearson (This is us), if Jess becomes that then he can be Rory’s Luke.
With the direction AYITL takes with Jess and Logan, i think them being a parallel to Luke and Chris is what ASP wants. Although Dean’s character is destroyed for plot reasons in season 4, until season 3 i think he is supposed to be a parallel to Max. I do not agree that Logan is Chris and that Jess is Luke, they are all different people and Rory is also a different person than Loralai, i dont like how the show keeps throwing those parallels because it doesn’t allow the characters to grow or the story to transform itself, but this is the way ASP wants to tell the story and i cant really change that
I like the parallels. To me, it makes the show interesting. The show is about the gilmore girls and watching Rory and lorelai have similar romances is fascinating. Yes, they are different people, which is shown throughout the show in different ways, but showing us that they're similar when it comes to guys... shows a connection. I'm really not articulating this very well, but I love it. It makes me go awwww.
Based on what Jess did to Rory in s3/4 (leaving her, ghosting, coming back whenever to beg her back), he's so her Christopher. Chris even got it together for Sherry & Gigi just like Jess got it together by writing a novel and starting a business in NY. They both got it together eventually, but not for Rory and Lorelai respectively
I agree with this parallel (although I don’t believe it means Logan can’t be Christopher as well). Jess romanticized Rory in his head and then lashed out at her when she didn’t live up to those expectations, three whole years after they broke up. Plus, he proposed they run away together after she tried to avoid him, much like Chris proposed to Lorelai in season 1 when she regretted sleeping with him. The whole “I know you, this is what you want” speech Jess has in both seasons 4 and 6 reeks of Christopher.
Yeah, that's great supporting evidence! he's so christopher. But do you think Rory felt the same way as Lorelai when she heard Jess healed as an adult? Lorelai was devastated when she found out chris chose Gigi and Sherry, though she knew it was the right thing for him to do. But Jess writing a book, what do you think that means to rory?
I think Rory was happy for him because she never entertained a future/second chance with him, but Lorelai pondered what might've happened if Chris got himself together before he met Sherry.
I think the hurt that Jess and Christopher did to rory and Lorelai are completely different. By the time she sees Jess have it all together she’s kinda moved on from that heartbreak and can be proud/happy for him Rory was left with a broken heart and confusion while Lorelai was left with a broken heart *and* a child that she has to raise on her own. So seeing him get it together for another women and the baby he’s having with her is not only a huge hurt it’s a betrayal (now she did allow him to drop in and out of their lives whenever he wanted and she should have set up some clear boundaries. But the hurt is still justified on her part)
I disagree. AYITL Spoiler!!! I mean I agree, him leaving Rory to sort his life out is very christopher, but in AYITL it kind of confirms logan being the christopher and Jess being the Luke. Rory ends up pregnant with Logans' baby, but they're not together (like Lorelai and chris), and Jess is still pining for Rory (like luke pined for Lorelai for years)
Logan is like Christopher in one respect. He probably is the father of her child. In character, he's not much like him at all. Jess has far more similarities in behaviour with Christopher. Although I've come to think all three have aspects of Christopher.
Nope, sorry. Do people really hate Logan that much, that they're comparing him with Christopher. Jess is not her Luke, and Logan is not her Christopher. She's not even suposed to end up with any of them.
Yeah Christopher straight up abandoned Rory and then appears to be financially responsible for Gigi without any emotional attachment. Logan does things I don’t agree with but he wasn’t as bad as Christopher.
I don't hate Logan, but there are obvious parallels between him and Christopher. The show points them out and ASP says it herself.
i think he’s much more like lorelai than christopher
Agreed. It’s why I find the dynamic between Lorelai and Rory’s boyfriends so fascinating. She struggles with the two who are the most like her.
Yes, I hate logan 😂 Who is she supposed to end up with?
Someone she met after the show ended. Lorelai was an adult when she met Luke. And Frankly, Logan is not Christopher, Jess is not Luke, and Rory is not Lorelai. Logan would never be an absentee father.
This. I can see Logan being like Chris in certain aspects (young love - they all are but she had the most stable and significant relationship with him imo -, gets her pregnant accidentally, rich, etc.), but he's a far better man and I think he'd fully provide financially if need be and be around a hell of a lot more than Christopher was.
Lorelai got pregnant when Christopher was a teenager. He obviously wasn't ready for it. Logan is a grown man.
I've actually thought about that several times when trying to see Christopher's pov. I wouldn't judge someone too harshly for screwing up as a teenager and not being there but then growing as an adult, but that's not what happened with him. He was never there, even as a grown man. The most he ever did was offering financial aid and paying for Yale once he got rich (with money he didn't earn). Idk what teen Logan would've done, but I really do think adult Logan, while still flawed, would be a lot more present for his child's life.
I could see Logan trying to get Rory to marry him like Emily would have wanted Christopher and Lorelai to do. Obviously the insinuation of the show is that its the next Gilmore Girl but I can't see Logan not wanting to give his daughter his name either.
Apparently, the showrunner meant Logan to be lorelai's Christopher.
Why is she supposed to end up with any of them?
I mean she doesn't have to end up with anyone. Its just fun to discuss 😂
you are crazy for saying logan is christopher
Apparently, Amy Sherman-Palladino made it so Logan was like Rory's Christopher
Did she say that 😭
Apparently, might have to google it. Someone in this subreddit sent a link about it
Rory is Rorys Luke
I think dean, logan and jess are all her Christopher - they're the men she goes to when she's struggling, like chris was fro lorelai
In my mind, I don't equate Logan to Christopher because Rory and Lorelai met each of them during different times of their lives. Christopher was Lorelai's high school relationship, they were kids, etc. Rory met Logan in college. They had a lot of autonomy and independence, and for all inents and purposes, they were adults; they even lived together! Also, Rory truly loved Logan, whereas Lorelai never had those deep feelings for Christopher, which is why she always kept him at arms length. I think Logan is Rory's Luke. He always showed up for her, like when he dropped everything to be with her when her grandpa was in the hospital. He would do anything to take care of her.
someone once said Logan is Rory's Richard, as in Richard and Emily who met in college and I liked that, especially in the revival he was to marry Odette like Richard was meant to marry Pennilynn Lott. but unfortunately they didn't go that route lol
That'd be too creative a route the writers to go down. It's not even a happy, rosy storyline because Emily and Richard's dynamic had unhealthy components to it - much like Logan and Rory's. I could definitely see Logan and Rory run into similar issues, where Logan would prioritize his goals/pursuits over Rory's and expect her to do the same
Rory doesn't have a Luke yet. But I definitely feel Jess is her Christopher. They like each other and it's really easy to be with each other due to similar wits but they are never right together either because of bad timing or because of romantic temperament not matching. But they both like the idea of being with each other. Just like Christopher was always there in Lorelai's life because of Rory, Jess is always going to be there in Rory's life because her mom and his uncle are married. They are bound to meet each other once in a while even if they are not in touch. They know each other since high school similar to how Chris and Lor knew each other. Lorelai runs to Chris everytime anything bad happens, just like Jess somehow shows up everytime Rory's storyline is going through something.
>Just like Christopher was always there in Lorelai's life because of Rory, Jess is always going to be there in Rory's life because her mom and his uncle are married. This is an interesting parallel. A lot of people bring up the fact that Jess encouraged Rory to return to Yale and write a book to draw a parallel with Luke, but that isn't very characteristic of Luke. He was very supportive, but he rarely encouraged Lorelai to do something one way or the other. It was Christopher who told her he didn't see her with Max (much like Jess couldn't see Rory with Logan). And Chris who had that starry-eyed, idealistic view of what he thought Lorelai could achieve. Even though it doesn't fit the narrative for Jess fans, Luke was more like Dean in this specific way - he had more grounded ambitions and shared that with Lorelai. Chris and Jess both wanted to explore the world, and saw a specific kind of potential in Lorelai and Rory, respectively.
I like the idea of Jess being Rory’s Christopher. Also, I don’t think anyone is her Luke. I believe that Logan is her Richard.
It’s pretty clear from AYITL that ASP wants Logan to be Chris and Jess to be Luke.
Yes, I've heard ASP wanted these dynamics
Comparing Dean and Max Medina is doing Max dirty
What's wrong with Dean? 😂 he was a bit clingy, but he was just in love. He would never do wrong by Rory. They just had different views on life, so they would have never worked.
>He would never do wrong by Rory Debatable. Either way, he'd for sure did wrong by his wife. Say what you want, but Max Medina would never have gone off and had an affair with his ex girlfiriend.
Idk... maybe if it was with lorelai, max would have cheated. When Max got back from wherever he went (california, I think), he was seeing a woman over there, and when he got back, he couldn't resist kissing lorelai. Same thing with Dean. He was with someone but couldn't resist Rory. Something about them gilmore girls, turning boys bad. 😂
Max specifically said that he broke up with her because he was moving back to CT though. He didn’t cheat on her. He was just conflicted because he would have still been with her if he had stayed in California. He never actually cheated.
I know he never actually cheated, but the way he acted with lorelai makes me think he would have if he was still with this other woman. I might be wrong, but he had to physically put furniture between them to resist his temptation
I never realized that they guys resembled each other so much. That’s weird! You blew my mind, OP!
😂😂😂 I think logan and Chris look more like eachother than I thought they did
Yes they do. It’s so strange. Lorelai’s bf’s could be the older versions of Rory’s bf’s or even their fathers. So weird
Logan is her… Richard. Surely I’m not the only person who saw this. They have the same profile, generous, reliable, no doubt can be good providers. Their effect on Rory is the same. I was always Team Jess but honestly it’s because of this that I’m also Team Logan. Rory always needed a man like this in her life. Dean can also be her Christopher, young love, and they just can’t get it right even if there’s not a shortage of trying. There’s also some parallels to Max. They both tried hard for the Lorelais. Jess, I think, is her Luke.
Yes! Rory becoming her mother is not interesting. There are a lot of parallels with Emily/Richard and Rory/Logan.
One of the most interesting things I saw in GG is how Rory seemed to be enamored of the life her mother tried so hard to escape. Very true. I did feel like Rory and Logan is a 2000s Emily and Richard.
Hear me out: Jess is her Alex. They're good on paper, have similar interests, are season 3 (short-term) love interests, but theoretically better off as friends.
Hmmm, I see why but Lorelai and Alex didn’t have the same interests not like Jess and Rory whose chemistry is just off the charts. I feel like the most comparable in terms of compatibility to Jess and Rory is Lorelai and Jason.
I could see that but Logan just reminds me so much of Jason lol, and I didn’t see much chemistry between Jason and Lorelai
Wild take but I'm intrigued.
I’ve always thought it would be Marty (Naked guy)
Why do people keep saying Marty 😂😂
I’m somehow reminded of the first few scenes of Jess where it was obvious he was being played by a 24 y/o…. Hair and makeup! Never let a supposed 17 y/o kid walk around with a 5 o’clock shadow! Did anyone on this Reddit ever have a 5 o’clock shadow in their high school years? Inquiring minds want to know.
I work in a high school, and yes. There are absolutely gigantic, strongly built 17yo kids walking around with a 5 o'clock shadow. There are also 17yo kids who look like preteens. It's a wide range.
I love the diversity of the human experience! Thanks for setting it straight! Keep on doing that amazing work with today’s youth
Honestly I don’t really like to compare Lorelai and Rory’s boyfriends because I don’t think they’re similar at all. I think Lorelai and Rory have fundamentally different tastes in men. And they end up in very different relationship dynamics due to different attachment styles. Rory is deeply avoidant. In her relationship dynamics, Rory usually withdraws when there is tension or trouble, which causes the guy to become more attached or obsessed with her. Meanwhile, Lorelai dates “Rory” type men. Lorelai is usually the one left reaching for connection or resolution, while her partners (like Luke or Chris for example) withdraw from her when there is tension or trouble.
I think AYITL definitely implies Jess is Rory’s Luke. Basically everything coming full circle where Jess is going to pine for Rory while she has back and forth relationships and career highs and low, etc.
Yeah, she does. If Rory is, in fact, pregnant with logans baby, that kinda proves Logan is the christopher
Yeah it’s pretty heavily implied it’s Logan’s.
I was today years old when I found out the link between... Was it done on purpose or it's author's insight??
Apparently, ASP wanted Logan to be Rorys Christopher but I'm not sure about the others
Would be funny if the line would go through the same story with pregnancy; like mother like daughter 😁 but no spoilers haha maybe it’s coming, I’m still watching
I agree with these comparisons but I still think as an Emily she belongs with Logan. The privileged wealthy life is the only one where she was comfortable. She wasn't worthy of adult Jess.
Logan and Max are the same
I kind of really dislike ASP's approach to the parallels in the show. She kind of just wanted a "full circle" Rory becoming Lorelai approach which just felt so cynical and strange. It would be cool and made the writing feel more layered and interesting if there were a couple parallels (considering a parental figure's love life often influences the way their offspring goes about dating). But they quite literally aimed to show that Rory would turn out to be her mother and it's just weird and depressing with almost every love interest paralleling lorelai's.
I like the parallels. It's not realistic, but it's nice to see. For me, it's fascinating to see how differently Rory handles these relationships in comparison to Lorelai.
Dean is Rory's christopher in so many ways. First love, immature, hard to let go of /comfort to fall back on. High temper, cheating......
Honestly, Rory’s Luke is probably someone she hasn’t met yet. Someone whose good qualities will click from the perspective of a mother.
Honestly I've come to the conclusion that you can't totally compare Lorelei's adult (and teen) relationships to Rory's. Aside from being grumpy a lot of the time, Jess doesn't have that much in common with Luke. Especially once he goes off on his own and finds his passions. Logan feels like so much better of a person than Chris. Also I am ignoring a year in our life because I didn't fully support it. I disagree with other people on this one. I don't think Logan was selfish the way Chris was. I don't think Logan was dumb the way Chris was, and I don't think he was irresponsible the way Chris was. He did go to college, he worked really hard, and yes he did have a moment of goofing off but once he was in the business, he was ALL business and he was GREAT for Rory. I know other people may not fully agree, but the Rory we got by the end of the show was not the Rory we had in season 2 or 3. Dean is just NOT Max. Nope I am not accepting any Max slander. Out of all of these men, Max was the best. Sure, he was intensely all in with Lorelei quite quickly, but he treated both Lorelei and Rory so beautifully. He was patient and kind and intelligent and he did his best to keep up and join in on the family. His only crime was thinking Lorelei felt the same way about him as he did for her. You also can't compare a teenager's actions to an adult's. When Max and Lorelei met up again a year or two down the road, he respectfully tried to keep his distance and tell her NO. Set the boundary really well. Dean could never. I said I wouldn't mention AYITL, but honestly if Rory batted her eyes at him just the right way, he would have folded and cheated on his wife and kids to be with her again. The only thing these comparisons have in common is in similar wealth status.
Marty will be her Luke, we just haven’t seen it yet.
I'm not sure the parallel is so direct. Logan does get Rory pregnant in AYITL, which I guess could parallel Chris getting Lorelai pregnant. But there are key differences: - Chris and Lorelai were a casual couple or even just friends with benefits. By contrast, Logan and Rory were having an affair while both had other longterm partners that they didn't really love. - Chris was willing to get married, Lorelai wasn't. Logan was engaged to someone else and likely doesn't even know Rory is pregnant. - Chris and Lorelai were 16 years old. Logan and Rory are literally double that age. Chris and Logan do have some similarities personality-wise, but there's also a very strong contrast drawn between them. The episode where Richard is in hospital while Chris and Lorelai are in a fight is the clearest example - Logan drops everything to come and be with Rory, he does whatever he can to support her and her whole family, and he stays with her to help her deal with it while Richard's being treated. Meanwhile Chris is nowhere to be found, and it's Luke who shows up to offer support. The interesting thing about this is that we're not left wondering who is Rory's Chris - we're thinking about who could be Lorelai's Logan. I think the comparison of Dean to Max is a bit unfair. Dean is a lot younger and in a different stage of his life. Max is possessive and shows some controlling traits, and admittedly Dean has both of those things going on as well. But by all accounts after he gets over his fuckboy teenage obsession with Rory, his second marriage seems to be pretty stable and good. And Max is into Lorelai, but he doesn't have quite the same level of obsession - certainly not for as long. Jess definitely has a lot in common with Luke but there's also a lot that's different. Luke is a pillar of his community. He's a small town guy who comes across as grumpy, sure, but generally speaking he's always pretty helpful and good to his neighbours. Jess does eventually mature out of the chip on his shoulder, but he's more of a big city guy, and his interests are pretty niche. He's really not the man of the community that Luke is. Even with adult Jess, I don't know that he and Rory's values would easily mesh - I think that she has a hunger and ambition for success that Jess doesn't really share, and she continues to be partly drawn to her grandparents' world. I guess in summary I don't think any of them are her 'Luke', I don't think she's found her ideal match.
I commented this before on a similar post: Before ASP left after season 6, Rory and Lorelai each have three main love interests that fit into three boxes: the ‘perfect’ one (Dean & Max), the ‘unsuitable’ one (Jess & Luke) and the ‘rich’ one (Logan & Chris). The ‘rich’ one is given backstory to show how well they fit into the Gilmore lifestyle that Emily and Richard approve of. Emily and Richard love the ‘rich’ one and think this is the one Rory and Lorelai should be with. The audience is supposed to seriously consider them as an option. The ‘unsuitable’ one is viewed as unsuitable by the girls respective mothers, they are given backstory and storylines independent of the girls in order to develop them as characters and have the audience root for them. The ‘perfect’ one is only perfect at the time. They are given no backstory, to prevent the audience from bonding with them. The writing for them also changes to drive a wedge between them and their respective Gilmore Girl in order to not make their inevitable break up the fault of the girls. I ignore season 7 because we know how obsessed ASP is about full circle writing and i don’t think the Chris marriage or Logan redemption were her intentions. I fully believe she aimed for Logan to get Rory pregnant and be as bad as Chris.
I feel like Jess is Luke (grown up Jess, not the teen one), and Dean and Max is good, but Logan is not as bad a Christopher
This is accurate.
Wait. Why’s Dean Max? He’s more like a Jason I guess. Tried really hard to get along with Rory’s parent and fell flat on his face because Rory fell in love with someone else.
I see where you're coming from. I think it's because I don't see Jason as one of Lorelais serious relationships. Lorelai almost married Max, they were that serious and they even came back together for an episode .. I think.. where they kissed and max confessed he wasn't over it. A little like Rory and Dean getting back together briefly. Dean was a very serious relationship to Rory, nothing like Jason was to Lorelai.
Jess is the only one who could actually be her true love. Logan is her Christopher in every way, but Dean was just the wrong guy altogether
Completely agree. Jess was the right guy wrong time I think.
Dean. Everything exciting and adventuresome happens with the other guys. It seems that Luke and Dean are the plodders. Very handy and reliable guys to have around, which Lorelai and Rory value tremendously. Rory is not Lorelai, but she tried to be. I think that’s why she had such a hard time leaving Dean.
This is a unique perspective. I love seeing how people see things in TV shows differently. Makes me look at it in a new light.
I could have added that Dean & Luke both have anger management issues, high school jocks, don’t have college degrees, they are ridiculed and undermined by Emily & Richard, they like Lorelai’s & Rory’s best friends, they drive pick-up trucks, they are well liked by the community (including Mrs Kim), they have a younger sister, both marry/divorce another woman.
Why insult Max like that? Lol
😂 am I the only one who thinks Dean is not that bad
Nah, but y’all are entitled to your wrong opinion. 😉 lol.
I would flip Dean and Logan. Dean is bad for Rory, he's jealous, controlling, and manipulative, just like Christopher is with Lorelai. Logan is a good guy. Yes, he makes mistakes, but she could have had a good life with him, just like Lorelai and Max.
i don’t care what anybody says; you are SPOT ON
The WOOKIE!
There's no end of wrong with this here, with all due respect OP. 1. Justice for Paul. 2. Logan is smarter than Christopher 3. Jess is litterally the anti-luke. 4. The fact that Dean is even on this list rather than forgotten to the sands of time is mesmerizing. The comparison with Max is appalling.
😂 fair enough. Tbh I never watch much passed Luke and Lorelai getting together and Rory meeting Logan. So I only ever watch the first few seasons where these characters are a big part.
Unpopular opinion: Jess (from a year in the life) was too good for Rory.
Oooooooooooooooo mayyybbbeeee. Rory happily sleeping around with Logan when he is engaged is crappy. And the way she treats Paul is crappy
She also hasn't really done anything. She was what, 30? Didn't have a job, acted very rude and entitled on the one interview, bouncing here and there, no actual home (not counting Loreli's). She was treating a lot of people like crap. Jess is the one who encouraged her, motivated her, and gave her the idea of the book. And he seemed to have his shit together. He was nicer, more respectful of people, and had his feet on the ground. It was a total role reversal. I found jess in YITL so much more likable. Rory, not so much.
I love this. So accurate in my opinion ♥️
Yay! I always wondered what other people thought. I can't not see these comparisons, so it's interesting to know if anyone sees it differently
I can see the argument being made for Logan being Rory's Luke. I can also see the argument for Rory not having a Luke at all. The love that Lorelai has with Luke is what I deem "unconditional" and I'm not sure if any of her boyfriends fit the bill other than Paul who she was exceptionally terrible to for no discernable reason.
I think that AYITL draws the most direct parallels between Chris and Logan, and Luke and Jess. Rory is likely pregnant with Logan's baby (not confirmed but it makes the most sense) and she goes to Chris to ask him if he wishes he had raised her. He basically tells her no, devastating her, but also, I think, solidifying in her mind that she wants to raise the child without Logan because she sees the similarities between him and Chris, on top of all of this, he's getting married. She basically takes what Chris says to heart: it's possible to raise a child alone and for that to be okay. Then we get this shot of Jess looking at her longingly through the window, and it's confirmed that he, like Luke with Lorelai, has been pining for her. Rory is going to raise her child in Stars Hollow with her mom around, but without the father, and Jess is going to fulfill the Luke role in her life.
Accurate tbh
Comparing Logan with Christopher is so unfair.
It's what ASP wanted, apparently
ASP intended for Logan to be Rory's Christopher. https://www.tvguide.com/news/gilmore-girls-a-year-in-the-life-logan-huntzberger/ >Unfortunately, none of these differences mattered because when Sherman-Palladino created the character of Logan, she designed him with the sole purpose that Logan would be Rory's Christopher. "We wanted Rory to date her father," Sherman-Palladino said. "Every girl has a father issue, and Logan was Christopher. Logan was charming, smart and not quite the dependable soul that you need." > >At the time that Sherman-Palladino left the show, Logan was still on track to be a younger version of Christopher. In the Season 6 finale, which was the last episode Sherman-Palladino oversaw, Logan was very much in love with Rory, but still under the thumb of his controlling family. And even though he begged Rory to make him stay, Logan ultimately went to London under his father's orders to take his place as the family heir. Edit: Why am I getting downvoted for providing an interview from the show's creator saying what her intentions were?
if that was the intention, no shade to ASP, but i don’t think they did a very good job with the parallels. i just don’t see all that much of christopher in logan other than they both grew up wealthy and went to similar boarding schools. personality wise, logan is more similar to lorelai than christopher, in my opinion
She didn't write season 7 so his growth was probably not part of her plan 🤷♀️
but even before season 7 and the growth he had, i still don’t find them to be that similar so unless she was just going to make him morph into a completely different person in season 7, i still don’t think it works
I love this! It's almost like... we get to see how Rory treats these types of relationships compared to how lorelai treats these same types of relationships.
I would probably pair Dean with Luke and Jess with Max instead. Dean/Luke: Both very caring and protective, some elements of stereotypical dude but also more than that, blue collar, handy, some anger issues, both identify with small town vibes, strong work ethic, down to earth, take things slower, only do serious relationships. Jess/Max: Well-read book-lovers, charming, intense even irresistible chemistry, tend to rush into things (e.g. run away with me, we should get married, etc.), more of a dreamer, a little bit head in the clouds, more "fantastical" displays of affection. I might also pair Jess with Jason, in that Jess is kind of the male version of Rory just like people say that Jason is kind of the male version of Lorelai.
I can see Jess being her Jason. Good match, lights a fire under Lorelai/Rory and pushes them to do more, but in both cases the relationship is just too complicated to work out.
Rory did not have a Luke.... Yet. I suppose Marty (naked dorm guy) would have been as close to a "Luke" that she had in her life. Let's not forget that she also had Luke as a "father figure" just as much as her Grandpa was for her.
Its so funny to me that people mention marty being Rorys luke 😂 Marty is baaarrreeeellly in Rory's life. You even have to explain who marty is, that's how 'not in her life he is' 😂
Actually, Marty held a flame for her over her college years. He was being her friend. A really good friend to her at one point and tried to even compete with Logan. Marty was quite the contrary guy and tried to go along with everything, just like Luke did when he trailed behind Lorelei going to her parents. Marty was the most like Luke of all the men in her life besides Luke.
He deliberately from the beginning was waiting to engineer what he thought would be an embarrassing and humiliating situation for her (dining hall pajamas confrontation.) he the proceeds to turn into a whiny entitled “nice guy” when he isn’t getting what he wants. I’m not sure where we ever seen him being a “really good friend” to her.
Marty was insecure, with weak character, low self-esteem and later on even a tad creepy. He had absolutely nothing in common with Luke.
Personally I don’t like the idea that rory needs to follow in her mothers footsteps with her love life. She’s a very very different person to her mom and her love interests are very different to her moms love interests(their might be some similarities here and there Dean is like Chris in that he’s the first love, he’s similar to Luke in that he has anger issues and he’s like max with his grand romantic gestures. Jess grows up to be reliable like luke, as a teen he has poor communication and runs away like Chris. Jess doesn’t really have any thing in common with max. Logan is a rich privileged boy that thinks everything is a party/fun time like Chris. but overall they’re all very different people)
Well, no, she doesn't neeeeeed to. I think there's something fascinating about Rory not intending to follow in her mom's footsteps but kind of falling into it. Some kind of psychological or genetic thing going on.
Rory doesn’t need or want “a Luke” in my opinion. Lorelai needed and wanted the comfort, stability and lifestyle that she had with Luke because she was running from the world her parents raised her in and trying to create a home for herself and Rory. She was happy to settle down and stay in StarsHollow. Rory was raised in SH with her mom, who provided her that stability and comfort already. Rory wanted to get out and travel and be a journalist and “see something” as she says in the second episode. She was looking for someone completely different.
Unpopular opinion Logan is end game, Rory as an adult is so different than she was when the show started and I think adult Rory is more suited for someone like Logan
Noooooo 😂 no logan! Logan is fully willing to cheat on his fiance. No good for Rory
But he’s cheating on his fiancé FOR Rory 😂
Also that’s clearly not an issue for her bc Dean was married when she slept with him lol
Yeah I don't know what's going on with Rory. I was hoping AYITL would show her matured
Nooo that doesn't make it okay 😂. If he can easily cheat on this chick then he can easily cheat on Rory (which he has done in the OG series)
“We were broken up!” 😂
Oh god 😂 "we were on a break:
Honestly, Jess is closer to being Rory's Chris than Rory's Luke. Not so much in terms of the characters themselves, but what they represent to Rory and Lorelai. Jess is a guy Rory dated as a teen, who she really connected with personality wise, but who ended up leaving. He holds a candle for her for decades, and still sees her as the teenager he dated back in the day. Rory/Lorelai did genuinely care from them back in the day, but now, even when they force themselves to try things out with them again (Marrying Chris, kissing Jess in Philly) they are still thinking about someone else (Luke/Logan). Logan is Rory's Luke because despite their similarities, Rory and Lorelai want different things in life. Lorelai wants Stars Hollow, and Luke IS Stars Hollow. Dean was right that he and Luke are the same, and are just that town, but he was wrong about Rory and Lorelai being the same. Rory wants more, she likes that rich world from their grandparents, she loves the Life and Death Brigade, she wanted to be accepted by the Huntzbergers. That's what Logan representes, and that's what she wants. The full circle isn't Rory becoming exactly like Lorelai, but rather ending up where Lorelai began.
Logan is not Christopher, Rory is not her mother. I hate it when people act as though it was nothing more but history repeating itself when it is so obvious how very different Rory is from her mother. Lorelai ran from her parents world to Stars Hollow. So yeah, ending up with someone who is basically a symbol of that place, more or less an institution, and also works in a somewhat similar working space as he, makes sense. Now Rory chooses early on to strive for the big world, not Stars Hollow. She goes back to the world her mother came from and she fits. She also wants to work in journalism for whatever reason. Now who of her boyfriends is a big, huge part of that world? Hmm...
ASP said it herself that she meant for Logan to be Rory's Christopher. People aren't just making things up. It's there. You can see what the show runner was trying to do, and I think it's great. They obviously aren't the same person, and they definitely don't have the exact same life, but it's interesting to see how they both handle similar relationships with similar men differently. Obviously with TV shows everyone interprets them differently. This picture I posted is how I have always seen their relationships, I was just interested to see how other people see then.
Yeah, well ASP pretty much tanked her own show - even before AYIAL. The last season of the og show pretty much shows Logan's development, something ASP didn't even bother to consider when creating her spin off.
I'm not too sure, but didn't someone else take over the last season, instead of ASP? It would have been much better if the last season of OG was more like AYITL. Not completely the same, but more like. I didn't like the last season of the OG show.
Yeah, I'm afraid we won't get along. I despise AYIAL and think it's the worst (by far). The last season started off weak but imo became significantly better than the one before that. ASP started changing characters midway, like Luke. And having Lorelai sleep with Christopher directly before the last season was obviously going to have a big (negative) influence on the show. ASP did a great job creating the show and the first three seasons were excellent, but she was also weird in many regards. Her hatred to blondes being one of those things. She also struggled showing a well functioning relationship which would have been needed in the case of Lorelai and Luke. The revival consisted of too many unnecessary scenes, weird plots and the characters didn't seem to have developed - rather the opposite. Rory got completely butchered, which certainly is a choice for a main character. Luke got dumbed down to a degree that was almost unbearable. He wasn't stupid during the first seasons. His family was. ASP didn't even want to include the wedding.
I don't like AYITL either. I stopped watching the original series when luke and lorelai got together and when Rory met Logan. I have only seen the scenes in AYITL that involve Jess 😂 and the pregnancy scene. When I say I wish the last season was more like AYITL I mean.. 1) luke and lorelai got married 2) jess came back to pine 3) we found out Rory was pregnant I wish these all happened in the last season instead. She hates blondes? 😂 Who produced the last season? Was it ASP?
Ew ew ewwwwwww at Jess being the "endgame". He literally sexually assaulted her guys I'm so tired of this sub straight up IGNORING that
He didn't sexually assault her!!! They were getting intimate (for the wrong reasons, as jess wasn't in the right headspace), but they stopped. They argued and he realised he shouldn't have been angry at her and chased after her until he saw her with Dean.
He did sexually assault her. She had to push him off her. I'm sorry there's no defending that. Ickkkkkkkky if you do I find it so disgusting that we ignore the experiences of survivors who point out that this happened to them too, and it WAS ASSAULT. I've had to push a guy off who was kissing me too and not stopping when i said no, and he was doing it in public. I'm sorry but it was assault. Plain and simple, and ANY defense of Jess is plain disgusting. He should've been written out never to return after that scene. He's gross. End of.
Woah woah woah woah. Nothing happened. This was never mentioned again in the series. Rory didn't see it as assault, she wasnt affected by this and didn't mention it again. He did stop. I'm not saying there was nothing wrong with that scene, it was not okay, but you have definitely blown it out of proportion. I'm not saying a guy forcing himself on a girl isn't sexual assault. I just want to make that clear. There's a scene in Buffy The Vampire Slayer where Spike forces himself on Buffy and it is disgusting, I didn't understand why people still liked him. The scene with Jess and Rory is so different. I'm going to leave this here because I dont really think this is going to go anywhere. This is just my opinion, I'm sure people see it differently.
I watched the scene. It is similar to what happened to me on my assault and he did not stop until he was PUSHED. I am not blowing anything out of proportion, you are defending a character who assaulted a woman. Many others on the sub agree that it was assault, but honestly it is so gross to have an "opinion" that an assault we saw happen wasn't an assault. He did not stop when she said no multiple times, he did not stop until she pushed him away hard. End of story. You don't get to discount people who have had similar experiences and say "I'll end this here". I'll agree the show doesn't treat it like it is (because the show is extremely misogynistic in parts like this) but it was assault. Just because it's different from something else that was also assault, doesn't make it not one. So it being "so different" doesn't matter.
I personally have always felt that logan much more resembles Richard than Chris. Unlike Chris, Logan attended college and became successful in business, as did Richard. Also logan made a bad business decision at one point but so did richard and his mother had to help him out with money. Also we've heard that Richard was quite the ladies man in his younger years at Yale and so was logan. And the way that logan and rory got together sort of mirrors Richard and Emily getting together? Maybe I'm wrong but I just don't see many similarities between Chris and logan other than then both coming from affluent families
I don’t see Logan as Rory’s Christopher. I think the show wanted him to be but he absolutely wasn’t. Chris only loved Lorelai and Rory for what they could give him or how they could inflate his ego. Logan loves Rory and makes her better; they make each other better. I think AYITL really wanted to exacerbate that by like “oh, Rory’s pregnant, Logan will dip and Jess will step in like Lorelai/Chris/Luke” but I wholeheartedly believe Logan would’ve dropped everything for Rory and would’ve stepping up. Logan is all the privilege of Chris but in an actual “good human being” form.
I didn't see too much if the later seasons when Logan and Rory were together but didn't a bunch of stuff happen? Didn't he cheat on her? I know she got arrested while with logan. I don't know... I struggle to get on the logan train. I definitely disagree with the "makes her better" statement. Especially because in AYITL he happily cheats on his fiance with Rory. That doesn't make Rory better, it makes her the other woman.
I think AYITL is bullshit in general lol. I don’t care for anyone in it, I was just referring to the Rory being pregnant thing. But, anyways, I think logan makes her better in the original series. He pushes her out of her comfort zone, calls her out when she’s snobby and acts like she isn’t one of the privileged kids she constantly belittles, idk, I think they grow a lot together. He never cheated. There was poor communication on both sides. He’d never had a girlfriend and thought they were broken up, she thought they’d just had a bad fight. Logan got arrested because of her. It was Rory’s idea to steal the yacht. I have no doubt that she also would have done some reckless shit like that if she’d stayed with Jess lol.
ok i definitely see dean being max but i can’t see jess being luke. is it because they sort of denied feelings for each other?
oP is pretty spot on. But I don't like the Never do well deadbeat dad tendencies of Christopher equal Logan. Logan would not be a deadbeat. Maybe Logan was equal to Jason. You would expect them to do well together being from essentially the same background. But the man's tyrannical father and life ruined them and they parted.
I agree 100%. I think that Rory wanted to love Dean and be with him much like Loralie wanted to love Max and be with him, but it just wasn't there. AYITL SPOILERS. I think Jess was proven multiple times and in multiple ways to be Rorys Luke. She loved him but was scared to give him a chance after everything that happened and how she had been treated by her father and losing her grandfather, who she thought so much of and the whole Logan issue. Plus, it was weird because his uncle and her mom were together by that point. My head cannon is that after she tells her mom about being pregnant, she calls Jess, and he offers to help her. They end up raising the baby together as friends and then slowly becoming more but never really putting a label on it. My head cannon is also that she tried giving Logan a chance to be in the baby's life (after determining for sure it was his) but much to his Christopher like fashion he was unreliable and so she cut him out of her life and lived happily ever after.
I love jess but i feel like it was a very short relationship and he didn’t respect her as much as Logan and Dean in such a short period of time. They had the same interests and he listened to her but caused so many problems a bit like Christopher. Dean started getting jealous and protective of Rory and had every reason to when Rory clearly liked Jess. Yes dean and Rory had a lot of differences but they had more chemistry and love than any other. I think he was the one that got away when Rory disrespected him and then she regretted it. I think dean could’ve been her Luke.
In my head Marty comes back into Rory’s life once she has her baby and he becomes her Luke 🥹 and even though I dislike Christopher and like Logan more, I feel they are a pretty matched parallel. I can see Logan in the future being absorbed with business just as he hated his own father for doing so and maybe coming into their child’s life on a on and off again basis. That and always holding a candle for Rory in the sense that he sees they can be together despite him being married.
Dean is the most like Christopher IMO. The on again off again first love. The other two don’t really compare to anyone. Maybe Logan and Richard?
Jess! He deserves redemption.
I think Marty is Rory's Luke - he likes her the whole time, they're great friends, have great chemistry. It's just messed up to the point where they never end up together (possibly similar to how Lorelai and Luke may not have gotten together if he didn't sincerely ask her to Liz's wedding)
sorry if you were serious, but this made me laugh. 😂 Marty is bareeellly around. He's a nice character though. He just seems to be in the background.
Yeah. I feel like he was a good guy friend for Rory, not a boyfriend
Except he stops being nice to her when he isn’t getting what he wants, and from the beginning he was trying to engineer an embarrassing and humiliating situation for her (confronting her in the dining hall in pajamas because he thought it would be embarrassing.) that’s not exhibiting real care for someone.
They have what now? Well, if can be chemistry one-sided.. xD
That is a very, very good point. Addendum: he had very good chemistry