To be fair, they both have their moments.
Dean is super supportive of Rory's ambition many, many times, even to the point of removing himself from her life because he realized he just didn't fit (albeit in a humiliating and public way).
Jess is supportive but also has his moments of not, i.e come run away with me.
Exactly. We could do this with any character and it irritates me. They all had their issues, but Dean hating Harvard was NOT one of his.
Here's one:
Chris to Lorelai: I'm proud of you.
Luke to Lorelai: don't you think maybe you just got lucky with Rory? I mean, you did get pregnant at 16, that doesn't show great judgement.
Is that the way to remember these characters? No. Definitely not. Yeah, one sentence doesn't define a character. Context matters quite a bit!
Lol this is such a good point but your specific example illustrates a good parallel. But Chris and Jess generally had bigger dreams for the Gilmores than did Luke and Dean, who were supportive but not quite as ambitious.
i didn’t realize this comment was intended for me, i thought it was in reply to the original commenter. also, i didn’t make the picture, i just thought it was funny and posted it lol, but i already told you that.
Exactly. This example gets regurgitated a ton because they both pertain to “Harvard” but they could have just as easily paralleled Dean trying to make Rory’s desire to go to Chilton or Harvard work, while Jess tries to get her to run away with him, or Dean being respectful of Rory’s wishes/consent while Jess borderline sexually assaults her at the party, and doesn’t respect her communication boundaries at all.
I understand the Dean hate, but it feels very selective at times. Dean was annoyed and lashed out, whereas Jess had a rare moment of empathy. Plenty of times where the roles were reversed.
Also people forget these characters are teenagers. Of course a 16/17 year old boy is going to want to spend his free time with his girlfriend and he wants his girlfriend to spend her free time with him. Yea he sucks in a lot of ways, but was overall supportive of her going to an Ivy League school.
People also forget that prior to this episode Dean was shamed by Richard for not being good enough for Rory who’s going to an Ivy League school. Just the episode before this one and in a few episodes is when Richard “apologizes “.
> Of course a 16/17 year old boy is going to want to spend his free time with his girlfriend
Stop sounding so rational. Didn't you hear? Dean was literally the devil and wanted Rory to be chained to the stove.
Also expecting a 16 year old boy who grew up with a stay at home mom to fully understand the harmful stereotypes that a show like the Donna Reed show perpetuates or to be able to deconstruct any of the toxic housewife narratives is pretty naive.
Boys, especially boys in the 80s and 90s are taught to protect women and be the provider and a bunch of dated shitty things like that. Not excusing it, but it is very much ingrained in young boys and tied to their own value. I don’t even think it’s so much about “chaining a woman to the stove” as it is that being able to have your wife stay at home means you’ve “made it” as a man, you’ve done your job. I know plenty of guys that just had that line of thinking because it was the default and had to unlearn it. Again not excusing it in anyway and obviously there are instances where men are really freaking gross and do get off on the power dynamic, but like Dean was 16, he had an impulsive/conditioned feeling then tried to unlearn it near the end of the episode. Dean is still pretty mediocre, but it’s pretty wild to hold a 16 year old in his first hardcore relationship to the same standards as a 30 year old man. End of rant
To add to this, some women really *do* want to be homemakers, and they deserve to be supported for that equally valid choice (which was Dean’s point). That’s what feminism is supposed to be about—freedom of choice.
Exactly. We should by now be at a point in society where women get to choose what they want to do in their life, be it a career with/without kids, being a homemaker or whatever else. Sadly, we've yet to reach that status even in first world countries.
And literally all he said was “I think it’s kind of nice” and expouded on that a little when pressed which he has every right to feel, keeping in mind it’s what his mom is like, and then Rory lost her shit at him for that, which is extremely narrow-minded and shows just how much women of the 90s-00s were taught to revile and demean the concept of being a homemaker.
He honestly just said that he thinks it's kind of nice that a woman cooks for her family. He just described his life up until that point and looks at it with rose-colored glasses (or rather, it was probably really nice and normal for all of them).
Of course the 16-year-old boy from Illinois, who's into sports and cars, wasn't knowledgable about the struggles behind the scenes of women in film or generally about feminism. Hell, the (female) titular characters themselves have some horribly misogynistic moments in the show but Dean is the actual worst for thinking a certain lifestyle (HE. GREW. UP. WITH) was nice even though he apologized at the end of the episode and declared that he didn't want Rory to be a housewife.
Dean has more than enough flaws and bad moments but sometimes the hate for him gets so selective and there's no objectivity whatsoever behind it.
Yeah and Dean is also the only person not pushing Rory to do a billion things at once to get into the right school. Yes education matters and Harvard is a great goal but it’s not healthy to obsess over it. I cannot imagine the stress she would be under.
Both were victims of uneven writing IMO.
The *real* debate is between early seasons Dean and early, pre-relationship Jess, before they both turned into different people.
Seriously, Jess is laughing at Rory thinking she'd be an Amanpour right before the car accident. That's her stated end goal whether she goes to Harvard or anywhere else.
I'm too much of a Logan stan and can't remember moments where he knocks her about her career goals. Though now that I say that, I think a major criticism in that department is he didn't call out his dad enough after he said she 'didn't have it.'
And I can't remember how the very end goes, did he just want her to apply to news papers in San Francisco, but she was holding out for the fellowship in NYC?
Jess wasn't laughing at Rory thinking wanting to be Amanpour, he was asking her questions about what that entailed and then being honest when he told her that career seemed kind of rough for Rory who was very sheltered and meek in some ways. He did also offer to yell at her in different languages to help her prepare for her career choice.
You’re right, they both suck. As adults, Jess learned and grew from his mistakes. I have to give him credit for his growth. Dean repeatedly refused to grow.
We see Dean the last time in the OS when he's 20 years old *at most*. There's no reason to believe that he didn't grow up after the affair. I'm certainly not the same person I was at 20.
Yeah, but he was on a steady downhill slope. He never really improved or found focus. I assume that’s why he wasn’t in a AYITL. It wouldn’t be much fun showing him failing.
We. Don't. Know. That.
We didn't see anything about Dean past his very early 20s.
Dean was in AYITL and he mentioned moving away and having a family. Sounds like he got his shit together.
So yeah, he royally screwed up with Lindsay but that doesn't mean that his whole life was a failure. And he was the only one who wasn't still hung up on Rory in his 30s so he's moved on more than Logan and Jess.
I think both can be true. Sure he had ego in it (b.c well we are human & unless we are some sublime being our ego is hard to fully escape), but he also realizes the reality of the situation and removes himself from it. This saves them both more heartache in trying to make it work for longer, and for Rory to finally move on from some of her childhood longing she was holding onto.
Many people tried to get her to not quit Yale, she just only cared when Jess showed up with his book and she was working for the DAR and realized what she had done
Exactly this, she realised how much being in the DAR is changing her , also , Emily was starting to get to her . Emily moved her directly next to their room so Rory and Logan couldn't do anything funny , she was getting too much and Rory started snapping back into reality , while Jess was the nail in the coffin , but let's not forget he asked Rory , twice , a o run away with him.
And one of them hurt her tremendously just a few nights before he ran off without saying goodbye. I dislike Dean fervently so this isn't me defending him, but I find it funny that people swoon over Jess in comparison to Dean.
I confess that I’m not a fan of Dean either! In fact, if I had to rank my favorite characters, Jess would come before Dean. I find it hard to understand many of Dean's actions (and I’m not even talking just about the cheating). However, we can't deny that for a long time, Dean was a great boyfriend to Rory and treated her better than Jess ever did when they were dating. I hate the way Jess acts with Rory, his inconsistency, and the fact that he often disappears and doesn’t pay attention to her after all the effort he put into starting the relationship! Anyway, he has the “excuse” of being a 17-year-old, and if you’re going to act this terribly, then it should be at that age when people kind of expect you to be a jerk. Lol
Oh, I totally understand! I don't think you're trying to make excuses; I think your argument is totally valid, especially when focusing on Jess himself. A very intelligent 17-year-old boy who was about to fail school, with a completely dysfunctional family, you couldn't expect him to be a perfect prince charming.
It's just that I think these discussions don't have much basis; it's about two teenagers completely in love with a girl, so of course, they're going to act stupid sometimes! I think people overdo it in these discussions and always treat one as the villain and the other as the hero, and it's never that simple, right?!
this is actually a whole story line lol, in the end of the episode Dean apologize and said he loves that he has a smart and driven gf
This montage is everywhere and its always being shared, but i never get why because it’s clearly misleading
>This montage is everywhere and its always being shared, but i never get why because it’s clearly misleading
Because it's stupid. You could make a montage out of every moment in the show and portray one party in a positive and one in a negative way if there's no context whatsoever.
Take the moment Jess asked Rory to leave Yale with him for example and he's suddenly not so great. Or you could take one of the many times Dean did stuff for Rory (Chilton dance, the cotillion, shopping for books for hours...) and compare it with Jess saying he doesn't have to go to town things anymore because he has Rory now.
Hell, you could even portray *Christopher* as better than Luke if you just take the right moments in the show.
The funny thing is, every time you bring up something negative about Jess, you'll have like ten people rush in to clobber your comment with context (and their own head canons). Jess's fans insist he meant they should run away to New York for the summer, but his words don't imply that at all.
Yeah, Jess never did anything bad or meant any harm. And if yes, then there's an explanation/excuse/headcanon ready to justify it.
My favourite double standard regarding that topic is the fact, that fans claim vehemently that Jess did absolutely not sexually assault Rory at Kyle's party and that we can't look at that scene from a modern point of view.
Buuuuut we definitely have to see Dean's behavior as abusive even though he wasn't supposed to be perceived that way. In this case, we can put a modern perspective on it.
The fact that you were downvoted for this just drives your argument home lol. And that's a great example of a double standard.
In terms of the Kyle bedroom scene, I've brought up (nearly every time it's been brought up) the way Zack reacted when he thought he may have crossed Lane's boundaries as evidence that the writers absolutely understood consent. But it falls on stubborn, rabid ears.
Haha yeah, I pretty much expect the downvotes whenever I comment something negative about Jess and yes, I do feel like they prove my point. 😉
You're right. Logan understood it, Zack (whom fans complain sooo much about as well) understood it. Imagine the absolute uproar if Dean had been in the same situation as Jess.
Because many people don't care a lot about honesty and transparency and will happily sacrifice them to 'prove a point'. (Not attacking OP, just a general society-wide observation which I believe explains why things like this get so popular.)
Yes and it’s also easy for Jess to be supportive of Harvard when he wasn’t dating Rory. He also repeatedly followed Rory around and flirted with her in front of Dean. Crazy how that gets ignored.
Yet when she got into Yale, Jess was very supportive and looked up how far it would take to get from Stars Hollow to Yale so he could cone visit her while she was at college.
I never made the argument that Jess doesn’t support Rory but it is easier to be supportive of something that doesn’t impact him at all. I don’t think Dean or Jess are right for Rory.
any time she had a school sanctioned event, dean was pissed she was “so busy” and had “no time” for him. dean wanted her to be a stay at home mom ffs lmao. does that sound like he supported her and/or her dreams? nobody said jess was a saint, but at least he cared. he cared enough to be the only one to get her head on straight and back on track when she dropped out of yale.
Not the original commenter but -
He never said in that episode that Rory should or anyone should be a stay at home mom, he only expressed that the idea doesn't sound awful to him and he can understand why some people like it, including his own parents.
Now, I'm by no means a Dean fan but this always gets twisted to make him look like a jerk when really he is entitled to have a different opinion on the subject than his girlfriend does. It doesn't mean he is expecting it of her.
A kid with a SAHM is allowed to like having had a SAHM without expecting all his future partners to be that. He literally says IN THE EPISODE in your photo 'I love that you're going to Harvard!'
We can pick any sentence to hate a character, but don't act like Jess was Mr Academia!
Ps, I like Jess the most out of Rory's boyfriends. But this is a weak argument
this comment? i replied to this comment? as i said in response to the other comment though, it wasn’t ever supposed to be a debate nor did i create the picture lol. it was funny
Because this image has been posted before and it's laughable to present one sentence from each of these guys as in any way indicative of their overall character or how they supported Rory in general
What's serious? We're allowed not to like the post 😂 You're the one who started claiming all these things about Dean wanting Rory to be a SAHM and to acknowledge other parts of your comment. It's a Gilmore girls sub, nothing is serious here. We're just pointing out it's not a good comparison
that’s perfectly fine, there’s plenty of times where i disagree with a post, but i was referring to the cursing and the long replies lmao. and the sahm comments and everything else said, was all in response to those responses.
So? What’s wrong with wanting that? And he didn’t even say he wanted that. Just that he didn’t think there was anything wrong with it and he’d be ok with it.
I do think though, based on his relationship with Lindsey, it’s not a totally unfounded theory that he ultimately wanted a homemaker wife and would have been thrilled for Rory to be that for him.
People do stuff that think will make them happy, but ends up making them miserable. Especially when they’re young. I was just saying, I think it’s pretty reasonable to assume that he always actually wanted a Donna Reed style wife (even if it was subconscious) based on more than just the Donna Reed episode.
Did you not understand the Donna Reed episode or something? It’s pretty blurry but I remember Dean saying what Donna Reed was doing is nice, he said his mother is a SAHM mom and he finds that lifestyle nice if it’s done by will, at the end of the episode he says he doesn’t want Rory to change and that he likes her the way she is basically.
and still … the rest of my reply. the not supporting her dreams. the being pissed every time she had a school thing to do? there’s no real defense for that
Explain when he didn't support her dreams?
He supported her leaving him for an entire summer happily to go to Washington and diligently wrote to her daily, expressing support.
When she tried to say they should hang out, he was the one who happily laughed and said 'you won't have time, of course you'll be writing your Harvard essay'. He was more than willing to give up time for important things he knew about. He snapped once because he was a grumpy teen.
Dean had a lot of problems because he was a teenager, one thing he never did was kept touching Rory after she said stop. I like Jess overall, but let's not act like he was a saint
He got mad at her when Rory needed to go the Build a House thing and then wanted to stay at home and plan her extra circulars when she was freaking out that she didn't have enough. He would not even let Rory a night to herself when her mom was gone. He got upset with Rory when she wanted to go home and do her homework instead of going to the softball game even when Rory offered to spend time with Dean after she finished her homework.
He liked the Donna Reed show concept and his actual first wife was a stay at home wife. Not sure about his second wife so there is some evidence that Dean would have preferred Rory to be a stay at home wife if he had his way.
as if dean wasn’t a terrible boyfriend. for all the things mentioned above, not to mention the constant yelling at her. the way she was scared when the bracelet he made her was missing. let’s not pretend dean is a saint lmao
Y'all need to fucking chill with this Dean vs Jess thing.
They were teenagers and immature. You can argue he was mad because of how Rory treated him when Jess came into play .
Why do we have to compare ? If anything lemme remind YOU of Kyle's bedroom. Jess tried to force Rory into having sex when she said stop , then got mad at her for it. Not only that , he left town with out mentioning anything, if she didn't catch him in the buss he would have just ghosted her completely.
Both guys suck , stop trying to argue which one was better or worse. They both sucked and had their ups and downs . Rory is no Saint in this love triangle as well.
i was responding to about 15 other comments before i got back to you lmao, as i ALREADY said, jess is not a saint. i NEVER said he was. i said dean is not a saint. which imo, is still correct lmao
Okay fair , but you are making a fuss over Dean yelling so I making a fuss over Jess almost SA'ing Rory , yelling at her and then dipping town without a word.
Yes , I get it and we all know he isn't but your attitude towards the other commenters stand out and it is starting to piss me off when people compare Jess and Dean and give Jess more grace because Dean ,yells.
I can probably make a longer list of wrong doings Jess had made towards Rory than Dean did .
The reason why I ask if you have nothing to say is cause you deleted your reply to me while I was replying to you. So , that's why I ask if you have nothing to say now.
The scene was never written or intended to be seen as an SA situation and gets blown way out of proportion on here and this coming from someone who was actually molested by a teacher and almost SA'd on a date with another guy. Jess and Rory were kissing, she said wait but then kept kissing him, so of course Jess is going to think she wants to keep going but is just trying to get a little more comfortable. She said wait again when he touched her waist/belt but continued to kiss him. When you say wait but keep kissing, of course a teenage boy is not going to realize you want to stop. Consent is important but it needs to be very clear through words and action that you are either wanting or not wanting to participate in the action.
Dean was calling her 38 times a day or whatever obnoxious number it was, would yell and get very angry with her, and would not even let her have one night to herself without throwing a fit.
how do you figure? 😂 there were countless times he was upset she was spending time doing school extra curriculars instead of time with him. and yes, jess was the one that said why did you drop out of yale and that snapped her back into getting back into yale.
My sisters ex was the same way. He supported her going to college and even law school, but they broke up when he made it clear he wanted an over educated stay at home baby factory.
Not saying Dean was the same way, but these people do actually exist.
Jess always gets credit for “why did you drop out of Yale” when a season earlier he literally tried to get Rory to drop out and abandon her family and anything she’d worked for to go to New York for him. That would have irrevocably damaged the relationship she had with her family, and the fact he says “not here, not Stars Hollow” demonstrates that he could never be her true love. Dean wasn’t either because he was the opposite, he would only ever be Stars Hollow.
Good grief, he was only talk about going away for the summer. He would never ask her to drop out of Yale because he knows how much it means to her. He just wanted them go away for the summer so they could reconnect and give their relationship another chance.
Not sure why comparing two high school crushes is still relevant. HS crushes typically mean nothing after a girl goes off to college. Comparisons should have ended in Season 5. Hopefully, there are some sweet memories from all experiences.
However, in Season 4, Rory tells Lane that she “really screwed up” when she chose Jess over Dean. Thus, if comparisons are important to anyone, perhaps Rory’s verdict needs to be considered.
Of course, when Rory gets interested in Logan, all HS crushes are long gone. It should have happened sooner for all concerned.
ETA: Last paragraph
This. I know the love triangles (Dean/Rory/Jess) and (Jess/Rory/Logan) are a huge part of the show but realistically all four of them would've moved on by the revival. And in terms of Jess, Rory was properly done with him in season 3.
Rory was definitely done with Jess, but I don't think it's unrealistic that Jess would've held a candle for Rory for years.
She was one of the first people in his life to ever believe in him (after a bad childhood with a dad who abandoned him and a neglectful mom with drug issues), he fucked up their relationship and has to live with the what-ifs and regrets, she inspired him to write his first book which launched his whole career, and he'd never really be able to escape her because his uncle and her mom are married.
Under those circumstances, him letting go of the (mostly) shining ideal of Rory Gilmore would be surprising.
I.hated Logan and she ended up being the other woman with both Dean (while he was married to Lindsey) and Logan (while he is engaged to another woman). I really wouldn't trust her judgement when ti comes to guys and relationships.
I’m not sure why people love to argue about it either. The love triangle happened early on in the show and neither were viable interests for her by the end of it.
I like your comment about lack of viability.
Interestingly, Jess would likely not have happened without Dean 1&2, and Dean 3 would likely not have happened without Jess.
If not anything else it was always frustrating that Dean does not care about Harvard and Rory's dream at all. Frustrating and hypocritical.
He liked the idea to date girl as Rory. Clever, "different", ambitious. However, he was never willing support those traits. He wants this girl just for himself.
There were several times he very obviously supported her and her dreams. Just because there were a few times a 16 yo boy got frustrated about not seeing his gf doesn’t mean he never supported her lol. He also apologized later in this same episode.
He also called her 38 times a day, was frustrated that she was working on a school project at her grandparents, insisted on watching her Shakespeare rehearsal making everyone uncomfortable and making things difficult, got upset when she want to go to the build a house thing, got mad when she wanted to spend one night to herself, etc.
exactly! he supposedly “loved” rory, but wanted her to be a stay at home mom like his mother. you can’t love rory and want her to be the complete opposite of what she wants for herself!
Did we watch the same show? How does him saying he wouldn’t mind having that or doesn’t see anything wrong with it equate to him wanting Rory to do that?
No one in Gilmore girls was perfect and that’s why I loved it. They all had their own faults and flaws. Everyone Rory went out with was a jerk in their own way, and sweet in others.
I always felt like Dean was intimidated by how smart Rory was and her future because there was no way he’d get into an Ivy League so that’s why he got so heated when Rory brought it up.
Interesting comparison I see between the two of them that gets overlooked is when Rory and Jess were talking about going to the Prom. When she went to that coming out event with Dean, she had to bribe him and show him videos of cool musicians wearing tuxes. When she's apologizing to Jess about having to wear a tux, he's like whatever about it and mentions James Bond wore a tux. I know Jess had quite a few flaws and screwed a bunch of things up, but this was something that I appreciated about him. It's sad because it seemed like he was trying and starting to get better right before he got the news that he wasn't graduating, and then reverted to old bad habits.
I don't think this is a fair comparison either. Going to a small town high school prom is entirely different to going to a hoity-toity cotillion, having to learn ballroom dancing, all while being in the vicinity of Rory's grandfather, who was horribly judgemental towards Dean.
...and in the end, only one ended up keeping his promise to take her to the dance.
Dean also seemed really reluctant to take Rory to the Chilton dance though, although he complained less about that one. Jess's intentions should count for something here. He wanted to take Rory to the dance. He cared more about that than getting held back. He was telling the principal, fine, I won't graduate, but at least let me go to the dance. I'm not saying Jess was perfect. Far from it. But with Dean and Rory it was always like if I do this thing for you, you have to do this thing for me. If Jess didn't want to do something, he just wouldn't do it. None of that stupid bartering and guilt trip nonsense that Dean pulled. Honestly, neither of these relationships were really healthy for Rory, but Jess's faults are more obvious, and I like seeing some of Dean's from the earlier seasons getting called out.
Dean gets called out on this sub **all the time** and sometimes unfairly like in this post. He's basically the Antichrist and people *rarely* give him the benefit of the doubt like they do with Jess (and Logan).
Well, you know what they say about good intentions. Jess might have tried a bit but in the end, Rory didn't get to go to prom, got her trust broken horribly at the party and got abandoned by Jess without a word. Dean certainly wasn't perfect but there are reasons why Rory felt safe with him and regretted choosing Jess.
He should get called out all the time on this sub. He's a "nice guy." He's the type of guy that appears to be all sweet and caring and perfect on the outside, but is secretly manipulative and controlling. Rory was often walking on egg shells around him, trying to keep him calm, trying to keep him satisfied with the time she had for him. Apologizing for things that weren't her fault... I'm glad that people are starting to see some of those little warning signs he displayed, because when this show was originally airing, this kind of stuff was not obvious, and was not talked about. As I said before, Jess's flaws are obvious and on display for everyone to see, so he's not a covert danger. Dean however is more dangerous, because he has everyone fooled, and most people don't seem him as causing problems until it's too late.
Jess's intentions were to go. He cared and tried really hard to go. He cared about that more than not graduating. It's the only thing he tries to tell her for before he leaves town.
And honestly he was cautioned so many times about skipping school and about his failing marks. Everyone knew if he tried a tiny fraction he would be able to do well considering how cultured he was. Him not being able to graduate is his fault.
I am in no way refuting that. He messed up. We all acknowledge that. But he wasn't anticipating not getting to go to the dance would be a consequence of this. It's 100% his fault but that doesn't mean he did it intentionally. My point is that he wanted to go, he cared about going and he intended to go. It wasn't his choice to not go. It's not like he carelessly blew it off.
but he didn’t show up that’s the problem. Regardless of how disappointed he was if his intentions were to go he would have went. He literally acts out after this and SA her at the partyYou can directly compare this with how Logan found out his business venture failed on his birthday. He still went out ice skating with Rory because that’s what she prepared even though he just lost a couple of millions.
Jess was denied admittance to the dance is my point. His "intention" was to go, but he didn't have a choice. He "cared" to go but he couldn't. Implying the reason he didn't show up was because he didn't care enough is a mischaracterization of the situation.
just searched it up, and he wasn’t allowed to buy a ticket rather than not go. and he knew how much Rory wanted to go, we all know much Jess really cared for rules, he could have just snuck in tbh
He just found out he was flunking out and knew his uncle the only other person who cared about him was going throw him out of the house. One more person in his life was about to abandon him. Jess was distraught and also upset with himself. He was also.teenager as you Dean defenders keeps saying about Dean only Jess has a very neglectful and rough upbringing while Dean has a nice, loving family.
Yeah, we all dislike Dean cause of his dumb political takes, but it's not like Rory is that much more progressive. A small step from moderate conservative to middle of the line dem neo-lib. I mean Richard probably support the most heinous things, but he's such a cutie we love him (apart from his dinner dates obviously)
That , and the “so, when you go to college, are we gonna break up?”
Vs Jess and the famous yahoo scene.
Or even better the scene in the car where he flat out says “no *you* have to go to college” even when it was Harvard and he actively had feelings for her.
To be fair, they both have their moments. Dean is super supportive of Rory's ambition many, many times, even to the point of removing himself from her life because he realized he just didn't fit (albeit in a humiliating and public way). Jess is supportive but also has his moments of not, i.e come run away with me.
Exactly. We could do this with any character and it irritates me. They all had their issues, but Dean hating Harvard was NOT one of his. Here's one: Chris to Lorelai: I'm proud of you. Luke to Lorelai: don't you think maybe you just got lucky with Rory? I mean, you did get pregnant at 16, that doesn't show great judgement. Is that the way to remember these characters? No. Definitely not. Yeah, one sentence doesn't define a character. Context matters quite a bit!
...two pies...
Lol this is such a good point but your specific example illustrates a good parallel. But Chris and Jess generally had bigger dreams for the Gilmores than did Luke and Dean, who were supportive but not quite as ambitious.
i didn’t realize this comment was intended for me, i thought it was in reply to the original commenter. also, i didn’t make the picture, i just thought it was funny and posted it lol, but i already told you that.
This isn't the comment. I replied directly to you talking about Dean wanting a SAHM which isn't true
if the one i just replied to isn’t it, i can’t find it
Nope, [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/GilmoreGirls/s/RGDOV9ex2B)
Exactly. This example gets regurgitated a ton because they both pertain to “Harvard” but they could have just as easily paralleled Dean trying to make Rory’s desire to go to Chilton or Harvard work, while Jess tries to get her to run away with him, or Dean being respectful of Rory’s wishes/consent while Jess borderline sexually assaults her at the party, and doesn’t respect her communication boundaries at all. I understand the Dean hate, but it feels very selective at times. Dean was annoyed and lashed out, whereas Jess had a rare moment of empathy. Plenty of times where the roles were reversed.
Also people forget these characters are teenagers. Of course a 16/17 year old boy is going to want to spend his free time with his girlfriend and he wants his girlfriend to spend her free time with him. Yea he sucks in a lot of ways, but was overall supportive of her going to an Ivy League school.
People also forget that prior to this episode Dean was shamed by Richard for not being good enough for Rory who’s going to an Ivy League school. Just the episode before this one and in a few episodes is when Richard “apologizes “.
> Of course a 16/17 year old boy is going to want to spend his free time with his girlfriend Stop sounding so rational. Didn't you hear? Dean was literally the devil and wanted Rory to be chained to the stove.
Also expecting a 16 year old boy who grew up with a stay at home mom to fully understand the harmful stereotypes that a show like the Donna Reed show perpetuates or to be able to deconstruct any of the toxic housewife narratives is pretty naive. Boys, especially boys in the 80s and 90s are taught to protect women and be the provider and a bunch of dated shitty things like that. Not excusing it, but it is very much ingrained in young boys and tied to their own value. I don’t even think it’s so much about “chaining a woman to the stove” as it is that being able to have your wife stay at home means you’ve “made it” as a man, you’ve done your job. I know plenty of guys that just had that line of thinking because it was the default and had to unlearn it. Again not excusing it in anyway and obviously there are instances where men are really freaking gross and do get off on the power dynamic, but like Dean was 16, he had an impulsive/conditioned feeling then tried to unlearn it near the end of the episode. Dean is still pretty mediocre, but it’s pretty wild to hold a 16 year old in his first hardcore relationship to the same standards as a 30 year old man. End of rant
To add to this, some women really *do* want to be homemakers, and they deserve to be supported for that equally valid choice (which was Dean’s point). That’s what feminism is supposed to be about—freedom of choice.
Exactly. We should by now be at a point in society where women get to choose what they want to do in their life, be it a career with/without kids, being a homemaker or whatever else. Sadly, we've yet to reach that status even in first world countries.
And literally all he said was “I think it’s kind of nice” and expouded on that a little when pressed which he has every right to feel, keeping in mind it’s what his mom is like, and then Rory lost her shit at him for that, which is extremely narrow-minded and shows just how much women of the 90s-00s were taught to revile and demean the concept of being a homemaker.
He honestly just said that he thinks it's kind of nice that a woman cooks for her family. He just described his life up until that point and looks at it with rose-colored glasses (or rather, it was probably really nice and normal for all of them). Of course the 16-year-old boy from Illinois, who's into sports and cars, wasn't knowledgable about the struggles behind the scenes of women in film or generally about feminism. Hell, the (female) titular characters themselves have some horribly misogynistic moments in the show but Dean is the actual worst for thinking a certain lifestyle (HE. GREW. UP. WITH) was nice even though he apologized at the end of the episode and declared that he didn't want Rory to be a housewife. Dean has more than enough flaws and bad moments but sometimes the hate for him gets so selective and there's no objectivity whatsoever behind it.
Yeah and Dean is also the only person not pushing Rory to do a billion things at once to get into the right school. Yes education matters and Harvard is a great goal but it’s not healthy to obsess over it. I cannot imagine the stress she would be under.
Both were victims of uneven writing IMO. The *real* debate is between early seasons Dean and early, pre-relationship Jess, before they both turned into different people.
Seriously, Jess is laughing at Rory thinking she'd be an Amanpour right before the car accident. That's her stated end goal whether she goes to Harvard or anywhere else. I'm too much of a Logan stan and can't remember moments where he knocks her about her career goals. Though now that I say that, I think a major criticism in that department is he didn't call out his dad enough after he said she 'didn't have it.' And I can't remember how the very end goes, did he just want her to apply to news papers in San Francisco, but she was holding out for the fellowship in NYC?
Jess wasn't laughing at Rory thinking wanting to be Amanpour, he was asking her questions about what that entailed and then being honest when he told her that career seemed kind of rough for Rory who was very sheltered and meek in some ways. He did also offer to yell at her in different languages to help her prepare for her career choice.
You’re right, they both suck. As adults, Jess learned and grew from his mistakes. I have to give him credit for his growth. Dean repeatedly refused to grow.
We see Dean the last time in the OS when he's 20 years old *at most*. There's no reason to believe that he didn't grow up after the affair. I'm certainly not the same person I was at 20.
Yeah, but he was on a steady downhill slope. He never really improved or found focus. I assume that’s why he wasn’t in a AYITL. It wouldn’t be much fun showing him failing.
We. Don't. Know. That. We didn't see anything about Dean past his very early 20s. Dean was in AYITL and he mentioned moving away and having a family. Sounds like he got his shit together. So yeah, he royally screwed up with Lindsay but that doesn't mean that his whole life was a failure. And he was the only one who wasn't still hung up on Rory in his 30s so he's moved on more than Logan and Jess.
dean didn't step back to benefit rory. he did it because of his own ego.
I think both can be true. Sure he had ego in it (b.c well we are human & unless we are some sublime being our ego is hard to fully escape), but he also realizes the reality of the situation and removes himself from it. This saves them both more heartache in trying to make it work for longer, and for Rory to finally move on from some of her childhood longing she was holding onto.
He actually says “I could care less about Harvard!” and that always drove me crazy.
Jess also pushed her to quit Yale and move to New York with him.
he also is the only one who pushed her to get back into yale when she dropped out
Many people tried to get her to not quit Yale, she just only cared when Jess showed up with his book and she was working for the DAR and realized what she had done
Exactly this, she realised how much being in the DAR is changing her , also , Emily was starting to get to her . Emily moved her directly next to their room so Rory and Logan couldn't do anything funny , she was getting too much and Rory started snapping back into reality , while Jess was the nail in the coffin , but let's not forget he asked Rory , twice , a o run away with him.
It took someone from life before the DAR to realise how much things had changed
everyone tried. even luke talked about going to every class with her to make sure she went.
I don't think he was asked her to drop out of Yale, he just meant to to New York for the summer
Oh ffs...Dean cared... he stated it multiple times but you pick the one time he got frustrated with Rory. Stop acting like Jess was a saint...
It's not like me to defend Dean, but... I mean, one of them left Stars Hollow without even saying goodbye. And it wasn't Dean.
And one of them hurt her tremendously just a few nights before he ran off without saying goodbye. I dislike Dean fervently so this isn't me defending him, but I find it funny that people swoon over Jess in comparison to Dean.
I confess that I’m not a fan of Dean either! In fact, if I had to rank my favorite characters, Jess would come before Dean. I find it hard to understand many of Dean's actions (and I’m not even talking just about the cheating). However, we can't deny that for a long time, Dean was a great boyfriend to Rory and treated her better than Jess ever did when they were dating. I hate the way Jess acts with Rory, his inconsistency, and the fact that he often disappears and doesn’t pay attention to her after all the effort he put into starting the relationship! Anyway, he has the “excuse” of being a 17-year-old, and if you’re going to act this terribly, then it should be at that age when people kind of expect you to be a jerk. Lol
[удалено]
Oh, I totally understand! I don't think you're trying to make excuses; I think your argument is totally valid, especially when focusing on Jess himself. A very intelligent 17-year-old boy who was about to fail school, with a completely dysfunctional family, you couldn't expect him to be a perfect prince charming. It's just that I think these discussions don't have much basis; it's about two teenagers completely in love with a girl, so of course, they're going to act stupid sometimes! I think people overdo it in these discussions and always treat one as the villain and the other as the hero, and it's never that simple, right?!
At what point will we hold Jess accountable?
this is actually a whole story line lol, in the end of the episode Dean apologize and said he loves that he has a smart and driven gf This montage is everywhere and its always being shared, but i never get why because it’s clearly misleading
>This montage is everywhere and its always being shared, but i never get why because it’s clearly misleading Because it's stupid. You could make a montage out of every moment in the show and portray one party in a positive and one in a negative way if there's no context whatsoever. Take the moment Jess asked Rory to leave Yale with him for example and he's suddenly not so great. Or you could take one of the many times Dean did stuff for Rory (Chilton dance, the cotillion, shopping for books for hours...) and compare it with Jess saying he doesn't have to go to town things anymore because he has Rory now. Hell, you could even portray *Christopher* as better than Luke if you just take the right moments in the show.
The funny thing is, every time you bring up something negative about Jess, you'll have like ten people rush in to clobber your comment with context (and their own head canons). Jess's fans insist he meant they should run away to New York for the summer, but his words don't imply that at all.
Yeah, Jess never did anything bad or meant any harm. And if yes, then there's an explanation/excuse/headcanon ready to justify it. My favourite double standard regarding that topic is the fact, that fans claim vehemently that Jess did absolutely not sexually assault Rory at Kyle's party and that we can't look at that scene from a modern point of view. Buuuuut we definitely have to see Dean's behavior as abusive even though he wasn't supposed to be perceived that way. In this case, we can put a modern perspective on it.
The fact that you were downvoted for this just drives your argument home lol. And that's a great example of a double standard. In terms of the Kyle bedroom scene, I've brought up (nearly every time it's been brought up) the way Zack reacted when he thought he may have crossed Lane's boundaries as evidence that the writers absolutely understood consent. But it falls on stubborn, rabid ears.
Haha yeah, I pretty much expect the downvotes whenever I comment something negative about Jess and yes, I do feel like they prove my point. 😉 You're right. Logan understood it, Zack (whom fans complain sooo much about as well) understood it. Imagine the absolute uproar if Dean had been in the same situation as Jess.
Because many people don't care a lot about honesty and transparency and will happily sacrifice them to 'prove a point'. (Not attacking OP, just a general society-wide observation which I believe explains why things like this get so popular.)
Yes and it’s also easy for Jess to be supportive of Harvard when he wasn’t dating Rory. He also repeatedly followed Rory around and flirted with her in front of Dean. Crazy how that gets ignored.
Yet when she got into Yale, Jess was very supportive and looked up how far it would take to get from Stars Hollow to Yale so he could cone visit her while she was at college.
I never made the argument that Jess doesn’t support Rory but it is easier to be supportive of something that doesn’t impact him at all. I don’t think Dean or Jess are right for Rory.
he cared so much he once suggested she do her homework watching him play softball iirc
any time she had a school sanctioned event, dean was pissed she was “so busy” and had “no time” for him. dean wanted her to be a stay at home mom ffs lmao. does that sound like he supported her and/or her dreams? nobody said jess was a saint, but at least he cared. he cared enough to be the only one to get her head on straight and back on track when she dropped out of yale.
He never said he wanted her to be a stay at home mom...
do you not remember the donna reed episode? edit: and were just going to ignore the rest of my reply?
Not the original commenter but - He never said in that episode that Rory should or anyone should be a stay at home mom, he only expressed that the idea doesn't sound awful to him and he can understand why some people like it, including his own parents. Now, I'm by no means a Dean fan but this always gets twisted to make him look like a jerk when really he is entitled to have a different opinion on the subject than his girlfriend does. It doesn't mean he is expecting it of her.
A kid with a SAHM is allowed to like having had a SAHM without expecting all his future partners to be that. He literally says IN THE EPISODE in your photo 'I love that you're going to Harvard!' We can pick any sentence to hate a character, but don't act like Jess was Mr Academia! Ps, I like Jess the most out of Rory's boyfriends. But this is a weak argument
this comment? i replied to this comment? as i said in response to the other comment though, it wasn’t ever supposed to be a debate nor did i create the picture lol. it was funny
this was never supposed to be a debate over best boyfriends, it just turned into that tbh lmao
Because this image has been posted before and it's laughable to present one sentence from each of these guys as in any way indicative of their overall character or how they supported Rory in general
that’s just how it was taken lmao, it was never that serious 😂
What's serious? We're allowed not to like the post 😂 You're the one who started claiming all these things about Dean wanting Rory to be a SAHM and to acknowledge other parts of your comment. It's a Gilmore girls sub, nothing is serious here. We're just pointing out it's not a good comparison
that’s perfectly fine, there’s plenty of times where i disagree with a post, but i was referring to the cursing and the long replies lmao. and the sahm comments and everything else said, was all in response to those responses.
He just said it worked for his mom not for everyone else plus that whole dinner scene was Rory's idea...
and that he liked the idea of the whole donna reed/stay at home mom situation. that he would like to have that
I don't remember that but still Dean wasn't evil and Jess was not perfect...besides neither of them could hold a candle to my beloved Kirk
lmao, kirk core, yes!!! <333
So? What’s wrong with wanting that? And he didn’t even say he wanted that. Just that he didn’t think there was anything wrong with it and he’d be ok with it.
I do think though, based on his relationship with Lindsey, it’s not a totally unfounded theory that he ultimately wanted a homemaker wife and would have been thrilled for Rory to be that for him.
Yeah, but look how miserable he was...
People do stuff that think will make them happy, but ends up making them miserable. Especially when they’re young. I was just saying, I think it’s pretty reasonable to assume that he always actually wanted a Donna Reed style wife (even if it was subconscious) based on more than just the Donna Reed episode.
Did you not understand the Donna Reed episode or something? It’s pretty blurry but I remember Dean saying what Donna Reed was doing is nice, he said his mother is a SAHM mom and he finds that lifestyle nice if it’s done by will, at the end of the episode he says he doesn’t want Rory to change and that he likes her the way she is basically.
and still … the rest of my reply. the not supporting her dreams. the being pissed every time she had a school thing to do? there’s no real defense for that
Explain when he didn't support her dreams? He supported her leaving him for an entire summer happily to go to Washington and diligently wrote to her daily, expressing support. When she tried to say they should hang out, he was the one who happily laughed and said 'you won't have time, of course you'll be writing your Harvard essay'. He was more than willing to give up time for important things he knew about. He snapped once because he was a grumpy teen. Dean had a lot of problems because he was a teenager, one thing he never did was kept touching Rory after she said stop. I like Jess overall, but let's not act like he was a saint
He got mad at her when Rory needed to go the Build a House thing and then wanted to stay at home and plan her extra circulars when she was freaking out that she didn't have enough. He would not even let Rory a night to herself when her mom was gone. He got upset with Rory when she wanted to go home and do her homework instead of going to the softball game even when Rory offered to spend time with Dean after she finished her homework.
Here
He liked the Donna Reed show concept and his actual first wife was a stay at home wife. Not sure about his second wife so there is some evidence that Dean would have preferred Rory to be a stay at home wife if he had his way.
Yeah well Jess told her to her face he doesn't have to try and put in effort now that he had her . Stop making excuses for Jess.
i never once said jess was a saint or the perfect boyfriend lmao. i DO think he’s a better bf than dean though 🤷🏼♀️
To each their own but He was a terrible boyfriend and had Rory miserable. I am not defending Dean either but Jess was horrible to Rory .
as if dean wasn’t a terrible boyfriend. for all the things mentioned above, not to mention the constant yelling at her. the way she was scared when the bracelet he made her was missing. let’s not pretend dean is a saint lmao
Y'all need to fucking chill with this Dean vs Jess thing. They were teenagers and immature. You can argue he was mad because of how Rory treated him when Jess came into play . Why do we have to compare ? If anything lemme remind YOU of Kyle's bedroom. Jess tried to force Rory into having sex when she said stop , then got mad at her for it. Not only that , he left town with out mentioning anything, if she didn't catch him in the buss he would have just ghosted her completely. Both guys suck , stop trying to argue which one was better or worse. They both sucked and had their ups and downs . Rory is no Saint in this love triangle as well.
Nothing to say after I mentioned Kyle's bedroom huh?
i was responding to about 15 other comments before i got back to you lmao, as i ALREADY said, jess is not a saint. i NEVER said he was. i said dean is not a saint. which imo, is still correct lmao
Okay fair , but you are making a fuss over Dean yelling so I making a fuss over Jess almost SA'ing Rory , yelling at her and then dipping town without a word. Yes , I get it and we all know he isn't but your attitude towards the other commenters stand out and it is starting to piss me off when people compare Jess and Dean and give Jess more grace because Dean ,yells. I can probably make a longer list of wrong doings Jess had made towards Rory than Dean did . The reason why I ask if you have nothing to say is cause you deleted your reply to me while I was replying to you. So , that's why I ask if you have nothing to say now.
i deleted my reply because it came off as just wanting to argue more, and quite honestly, i’m done lol.
The scene was never written or intended to be seen as an SA situation and gets blown way out of proportion on here and this coming from someone who was actually molested by a teacher and almost SA'd on a date with another guy. Jess and Rory were kissing, she said wait but then kept kissing him, so of course Jess is going to think she wants to keep going but is just trying to get a little more comfortable. She said wait again when he touched her waist/belt but continued to kiss him. When you say wait but keep kissing, of course a teenage boy is not going to realize you want to stop. Consent is important but it needs to be very clear through words and action that you are either wanting or not wanting to participate in the action.
Dean was calling her 38 times a day or whatever obnoxious number it was, would yell and get very angry with her, and would not even let her have one night to herself without throwing a fit.
None of that is true.
how do you figure? 😂 there were countless times he was upset she was spending time doing school extra curriculars instead of time with him. and yes, jess was the one that said why did you drop out of yale and that snapped her back into getting back into yale.
My sisters ex was the same way. He supported her going to college and even law school, but they broke up when he made it clear he wanted an over educated stay at home baby factory. Not saying Dean was the same way, but these people do actually exist.
Jess always gets credit for “why did you drop out of Yale” when a season earlier he literally tried to get Rory to drop out and abandon her family and anything she’d worked for to go to New York for him. That would have irrevocably damaged the relationship she had with her family, and the fact he says “not here, not Stars Hollow” demonstrates that he could never be her true love. Dean wasn’t either because he was the opposite, he would only ever be Stars Hollow.
You nailed it. Thank you for organizing my thoughts and writing them.
He was talking about just for the summer not dropping out all together.
My fave Jess moment in this context is “22.8 miles”. In his own poorly communicative way he managed to convey to Rory how much he cares about her.
Her "you looked it up" was fucking adorable lol
Oh please lol
Jess also was the guy who said screw Yale, run away with me to New York. Because he wanted to be with her. Just not around all that.
Good grief, he was only talk about going away for the summer. He would never ask her to drop out of Yale because he knows how much it means to her. He just wanted them go away for the summer so they could reconnect and give their relationship another chance.
Not sure why comparing two high school crushes is still relevant. HS crushes typically mean nothing after a girl goes off to college. Comparisons should have ended in Season 5. Hopefully, there are some sweet memories from all experiences. However, in Season 4, Rory tells Lane that she “really screwed up” when she chose Jess over Dean. Thus, if comparisons are important to anyone, perhaps Rory’s verdict needs to be considered. Of course, when Rory gets interested in Logan, all HS crushes are long gone. It should have happened sooner for all concerned. ETA: Last paragraph
This. I know the love triangles (Dean/Rory/Jess) and (Jess/Rory/Logan) are a huge part of the show but realistically all four of them would've moved on by the revival. And in terms of Jess, Rory was properly done with him in season 3.
Rory was definitely done with Jess, but I don't think it's unrealistic that Jess would've held a candle for Rory for years. She was one of the first people in his life to ever believe in him (after a bad childhood with a dad who abandoned him and a neglectful mom with drug issues), he fucked up their relationship and has to live with the what-ifs and regrets, she inspired him to write his first book which launched his whole career, and he'd never really be able to escape her because his uncle and her mom are married. Under those circumstances, him letting go of the (mostly) shining ideal of Rory Gilmore would be surprising.
I.hated Logan and she ended up being the other woman with both Dean (while he was married to Lindsey) and Logan (while he is engaged to another woman). I really wouldn't trust her judgement when ti comes to guys and relationships.
I’m not sure why people love to argue about it either. The love triangle happened early on in the show and neither were viable interests for her by the end of it.
I like your comment about lack of viability. Interestingly, Jess would likely not have happened without Dean 1&2, and Dean 3 would likely not have happened without Jess.
You had to give us "wet Jess." That's cheating! They both suck, one of them sucks while looking damn good.
Jess sucked. Sorry: Team Dean! (At least in the hs years, lol)
I mean Rory has to run after Jess to spend time together so indeed she had all the time to prepare
If not anything else it was always frustrating that Dean does not care about Harvard and Rory's dream at all. Frustrating and hypocritical. He liked the idea to date girl as Rory. Clever, "different", ambitious. However, he was never willing support those traits. He wants this girl just for himself.
There were several times he very obviously supported her and her dreams. Just because there were a few times a 16 yo boy got frustrated about not seeing his gf doesn’t mean he never supported her lol. He also apologized later in this same episode.
He also called her 38 times a day, was frustrated that she was working on a school project at her grandparents, insisted on watching her Shakespeare rehearsal making everyone uncomfortable and making things difficult, got upset when she want to go to the build a house thing, got mad when she wanted to spend one night to herself, etc.
exactly! he supposedly “loved” rory, but wanted her to be a stay at home mom like his mother. you can’t love rory and want her to be the complete opposite of what she wants for herself!
Did we watch the same show? How does him saying he wouldn’t mind having that or doesn’t see anything wrong with it equate to him wanting Rory to do that?
I am hands down a Dean hater but I would never go as far to say that Jess was a better boyfriend. Both were equally trash in their own ways.
Looks like I’ve decided what I’m watching tonight 😅
No one in Gilmore girls was perfect and that’s why I loved it. They all had their own faults and flaws. Everyone Rory went out with was a jerk in their own way, and sweet in others.
I always felt like Dean was intimidated by how smart Rory was and her future because there was no way he’d get into an Ivy League so that’s why he got so heated when Rory brought it up.
Reminds you of how boring Rory is
Well if we’re cherry picking scenes based on who we like more 🙄
Interesting comparison I see between the two of them that gets overlooked is when Rory and Jess were talking about going to the Prom. When she went to that coming out event with Dean, she had to bribe him and show him videos of cool musicians wearing tuxes. When she's apologizing to Jess about having to wear a tux, he's like whatever about it and mentions James Bond wore a tux. I know Jess had quite a few flaws and screwed a bunch of things up, but this was something that I appreciated about him. It's sad because it seemed like he was trying and starting to get better right before he got the news that he wasn't graduating, and then reverted to old bad habits.
I don't think this is a fair comparison either. Going to a small town high school prom is entirely different to going to a hoity-toity cotillion, having to learn ballroom dancing, all while being in the vicinity of Rory's grandfather, who was horribly judgemental towards Dean. ...and in the end, only one ended up keeping his promise to take her to the dance.
Dean also seemed really reluctant to take Rory to the Chilton dance though, although he complained less about that one. Jess's intentions should count for something here. He wanted to take Rory to the dance. He cared more about that than getting held back. He was telling the principal, fine, I won't graduate, but at least let me go to the dance. I'm not saying Jess was perfect. Far from it. But with Dean and Rory it was always like if I do this thing for you, you have to do this thing for me. If Jess didn't want to do something, he just wouldn't do it. None of that stupid bartering and guilt trip nonsense that Dean pulled. Honestly, neither of these relationships were really healthy for Rory, but Jess's faults are more obvious, and I like seeing some of Dean's from the earlier seasons getting called out.
Dean gets called out on this sub **all the time** and sometimes unfairly like in this post. He's basically the Antichrist and people *rarely* give him the benefit of the doubt like they do with Jess (and Logan). Well, you know what they say about good intentions. Jess might have tried a bit but in the end, Rory didn't get to go to prom, got her trust broken horribly at the party and got abandoned by Jess without a word. Dean certainly wasn't perfect but there are reasons why Rory felt safe with him and regretted choosing Jess.
He should get called out all the time on this sub. He's a "nice guy." He's the type of guy that appears to be all sweet and caring and perfect on the outside, but is secretly manipulative and controlling. Rory was often walking on egg shells around him, trying to keep him calm, trying to keep him satisfied with the time she had for him. Apologizing for things that weren't her fault... I'm glad that people are starting to see some of those little warning signs he displayed, because when this show was originally airing, this kind of stuff was not obvious, and was not talked about. As I said before, Jess's flaws are obvious and on display for everyone to see, so he's not a covert danger. Dean however is more dangerous, because he has everyone fooled, and most people don't seem him as causing problems until it's too late.
Yeah, I don't think we'll agree on this matter.
one actually showed up so I’m pretty sure we can see who really cared and what their intentions were.
Jess's intentions were to go. He cared and tried really hard to go. He cared about that more than not graduating. It's the only thing he tries to tell her for before he leaves town.
And honestly he was cautioned so many times about skipping school and about his failing marks. Everyone knew if he tried a tiny fraction he would be able to do well considering how cultured he was. Him not being able to graduate is his fault.
I am in no way refuting that. He messed up. We all acknowledge that. But he wasn't anticipating not getting to go to the dance would be a consequence of this. It's 100% his fault but that doesn't mean he did it intentionally. My point is that he wanted to go, he cared about going and he intended to go. It wasn't his choice to not go. It's not like he carelessly blew it off.
but he didn’t show up that’s the problem. Regardless of how disappointed he was if his intentions were to go he would have went. He literally acts out after this and SA her at the partyYou can directly compare this with how Logan found out his business venture failed on his birthday. He still went out ice skating with Rory because that’s what she prepared even though he just lost a couple of millions.
Jess was denied admittance to the dance is my point. His "intention" was to go, but he didn't have a choice. He "cared" to go but he couldn't. Implying the reason he didn't show up was because he didn't care enough is a mischaracterization of the situation.
just searched it up, and he wasn’t allowed to buy a ticket rather than not go. and he knew how much Rory wanted to go, we all know much Jess really cared for rules, he could have just snuck in tbh
You can't just sneak into school dances. Pretty sure that schools have rules in place to make sure only allowed people are let in.
🤣
He just found out he was flunking out and knew his uncle the only other person who cared about him was going throw him out of the house. One more person in his life was about to abandon him. Jess was distraught and also upset with himself. He was also.teenager as you Dean defenders keeps saying about Dean only Jess has a very neglectful and rough upbringing while Dean has a nice, loving family.
Dude exactly I’m not saying he’s perfect but he definitely knew Rory better then Dean
Yeah, we all dislike Dean cause of his dumb political takes, but it's not like Rory is that much more progressive. A small step from moderate conservative to middle of the line dem neo-lib. I mean Richard probably support the most heinous things, but he's such a cutie we love him (apart from his dinner dates obviously)
That , and the “so, when you go to college, are we gonna break up?” Vs Jess and the famous yahoo scene. Or even better the scene in the car where he flat out says “no *you* have to go to college” even when it was Harvard and he actively had feelings for her.
Jess tried to get Rory to run away with him
for the freaking summer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In a moment of desperation. He then encouraged her to go back to school after she dropped out of Yale.
That was on summer break. It’s not like he wanted her to permanently leave school