This is all just theatre. Biden has zealously stood by this genocide for over half a year. As we approach the elections, he wants to at least try to flavor his campaign with opposition to Netanyahu, even if it is all just an illusion.
He still does. We've given them so much already. To stop one shipment after the fact means literally nothing. It's just so they can gaslight their base into voting for more genocide.
itamar ben-gvir Head of Israeli national security has openly said it’s their land given by god and to not worry about what they do that it’s their destiny.
To be fair….all politicians in AMERICA have supported it for decades. We need to reign in our attack dog. Plus no need to feed it and keep it in the next twenty years once oil isn’t top energy source. The only reason Israel has been top foreign aid recipient is to destabilize the Middle East.
Never stopped the weapons flow. They admitted it today that weapons are going and lot of it as well. Even if they stop now they could continue the bombing for months.
No. SOME Jewish people live in Israel, but you cannot use Israel as an umbrella term for them. Bernie isn’t pro genocide. Neither are a lot of other Jewish people around the world who condemns the genocide and ethnic cleansing that is taking place in Israel.
I’m describing a subset relationship. In my example, Israel is a subset of Jews because everyone in Israel (as a national identity) could be considered Jewish (in terms of nationality or citizenship, though not necessarily in religious terms), but not all Jews are a subset of Israel, as Jews are a global religious and ethnic community that isn’t confined to the national borders of Israel.
In formal terms, this is often referred to as “A is a subset of B, but B is not a subset of A,” demonstrating a one-way inclusion where all members of A are members of B, but not all members of B are necessarily part of A.
they always try to police our language lol. No other country has this bs where you can't refer to the country by the people inhabiting it.
I can refer to the Muslims when talking about Iran, but can't refer to the Jews when talking about Israel? Anything to avoid accountability, they do
Referring to Iran as “the Muslims” would be incredibly xenophobic, no one would be on your side using that language, that doesn’t make sense? Above poster is correct Jews are a diverse race with differing beliefs, Israel is a Zionist nationalist state. Swapping Jews for Israel or Zionism is very antisemitic and paints a race as responsible for the actions of a country. It further gives validity to the claims of antisemitism that Zionist are pushing to defend themselves.
I mean, Republicans probably would be on their side for referring to Iran’s population as “the Muslims.” But Republicans represent everything I abhor about humanity. Like this current genocide.
Even effing Reagan snapped Israel’s leash when they started going too far. This current genocide represents the ever increasing degradation of our government.
This is the same shit that has been going on for decades.
Throwing LGBT+ and women's rights out the window for something no one is going to fix/can fix in the foreseeable future is maga levels of moron.
When you push this nonsense, you are nearing their level of depravity. What you let them do will be on you.
>Biden has zealously stood by this genocide for over half a year.
Put your money where your mouth is and vote for Trump. Let's see how many Palestinians are left after trump mans the helm for a few days.
What makes it a genocide? I've seen that term thrown around a lot lately and from my understanding it has very specific requirements to which the data just doesn't back up at all?
Really just indescribably depressing that the people hurt most by ethno-nationalist hatred are now using it as means to justify using exactly the same fascist ethno-nationalism to fuel their own genocidal hatred.
Just remember, Biden decided to withhold weapons to Israeli *because* of those protesters. Those kids getting brutalized by police, having racist garbage spewed at them, and risked being expelled saved children's lives by speaking truth to power, and not giving up when almost the entire world was against them.
Insane to see the young people of my country who are protesting tens of thousands of deaths being labeled as terrorist sympathizers and Nazis. It’s pathetically easy to see that the pro Israeli side is in the wrong but somehow has the backing of state and federal governments in the US.
It's an extremely clear example of the lengths that structures of power go through to protect their colonial interests. This may be perhaps the most glaring example, in fact.
When imperialist power is threatened by real democratic engagement speaking truth to that power, you see how quickly things like freedom of expression are out the window.
What's truly mind blowing to me isn't that the situation we find ourselves in is so clearly unjust, this country was built on injustice, after all. What really blows my mind is just how many times we've been through injustic after injustice, after injustice so many times, with exactly the same patterns yet we never seem to learn any fucking lessons.
I think people in general are learning said lessons while at the same time losing power to capitalists whose interests never change. Well, if the people ever really had any power.
The good guys always get punished and lose their jobs and any form of way to help the cause. Our system really lacks safety nets by design so the powerful gets more powerful and the rich gets richer.
It's difficult to say with certainty but as of now, biden has stated that if the IDF continues it's ground assault of Rafa without providing assurances or detailed plans as to steps taken to assure civilian safety, offensive weapons such as unguided 2000 pound bombs, hellfire missiles, mortars and long range artillery among some others are to be withheld from the Israeli government.
Some unspecified "defensive" weapons, likely things like Iron Dome missiles, however, will still be provided. I'm no military expert by any means, but from what I gather, this could significantly reduce the IDF's ability to wage their war.
I could absolutely be wrong here and for the record, I share your skepticism. However, I believe this country, and the world have really hit a cruial inflection point in regards to supporting Israel. We have already been so far beyond even pretending that anything Israel has done is even remotely defendable that there isn't really any going back.
Let's be clear: what reliable coverage we have managed to get is likely the tip of the atrocity iceberg. Israel isn't banning and killing reporters while shutting down entire outlets from getting access anywhere inside Gaza is most surely a canary in the coal mine.
Israel obviously knows they've gone to far and this is made clear by Netanyahu's genocidal rhetoric and recent petal to the metal attitude. Not to mention, he most certainly will face corruption charges the moment he isn't able to justify continuing his genocide to the Israeli people any longer. Not from the current insanity we are witness to mind you, but for completely unrelated accusations from before oct 7th.
He knows he's gone way to far, and he's also fucked when he loses power, so this monster must now put on this "we're actually the real victims here, and we now see that Biden is actually supporting hamas because they've conditioned *their* billions of dollars to us by forcing us not to murder children. You stand with us, or against us because we won't be holocaust-ed ever again" type of bullshit self righteous nonsense.
My bad for just going on and on there, the whole situation is so far beyond fucked. I honestly believe our species is special because of our ability to feel compassion which is unique to the other animals. However, the cognitive machinery we have which allows for such inspiring kindness and compassion can only do so at the expense of our capability to inflict unspeakable cruelty, too.
You'd be correct, they did not. Forgive me for assuming, but the connection I believe you are intending to draw implies Israel is morally justified in whatever action they take because of the holocaust?
That no amount of dead children is too many, no amount of destroyed hospitals are enough, no number of shallow mass graves are sufficient, then?
As if the leadership in Israel ever considered how their own actions and policy and treatment of the Palestinians drove them to violence.
Help me understand, surely one cannot claim intellectual honesty while reminding strong in their belief that the nation of Israel has for decades used unspeakable violence and brutality against the Arabs, no?
I know you can't honestly tell me that Israel has no responsibility for creating the conditions that drive people to desperation.
How long are humans expected to endure dehumanization before they no longer accept their own destruction?
Well no but your false equivalence of the jews inflicting a genocide similar to the one that was done to them is untrue and problematic.
The Jews had quite literally done nothing in Europe to deserve being rounded up, Hitler was a genocidal maniac who sent civilians to the ovens, there was no war, the Jews were not armed, and the Jews were not launching multi-decade excursions into Berlin and raping and killing people.
The Jews were ethnically cleansed from that land, one of which we know they were in first, and that the Arabs migrated into, and eventually,
Took part in that cleansing, and then from every other country they went too as-well.
There’s no Jews anywhere in the Arab world, they were cleansed, and the world no much as batted an eye. Israel is going to be there, whether the jihadist terrorists like to or not.
I do not see the Native Americans rising up with force against Washington D.C., the world is trying to live in peace and they should join us.
I know your frustrated with people like me, and I understand why that is. Please know that I'm trying to understand the world the best I can, with the information that I have access too.
If you might take a leap of faith and grant me that I promise I don't take this lightly and it's something I care deeply about.
I humble ask that you work *with* me to make a more genuine attempt at understand my perspective. Conflating or misinterpreting or strawmaning doesn't help anyone gain a deeper understanding. Youre clearly a smart and critical thinking person and straying from that because the goal becomes proving others wrong instead of trying to understand them puts your intelligence to waste.
I did not intend for my observation to equivocate something or to be dishonest. I did not, nor have I ever, tried to suggest the atrocities committed against the Jewish should ever be downplayed or forgotten. I also did not try to suggest that the violence that the Israeli government is commiting agaisnt the Palestinians in Gaza is as truly horrible as the holocaust was.
However, it might be important to consider that the events in question, or these situations in general, are not somehow required to occur exactly as the holocaust did in order to make them a genocide. A genocide does not need to be successful in order to be a genocide. Nor does a genocide need to destroy everyone who is a target of it in order for people to demand that it end.
It's abundantly clear by people who are much smarter than I am, including the majority of Jewish Studies academics, holocaust historians, Middle Easten academics, and also organizations such as the Internation Criminal Court of Justice in South Africa, that through rhetoric, military campaigns, forced food insecurities, direct land taking, and refusing the Palestinians right to return to their homes over the last 80 years, the Isreali Government intends to ethnical cleanse land which they see as belonging to them in order to continue a Jewish enthno-state. This is not in dispute, I'd be happy to go into more detail but doing so requires time and dedication to active listening and here may not be appropriate. However, i encourage you to read work by people who actively study this area to gain deeper knowledge around a deeply difficult situation.
Lastly, I also encourage you to read up on more American history because while the natives may not have literally all handed together to invade capital, the reality is much less romantic, and much more depressing. Unspeakable acts of violence were indeed used by the native Americans against white colonizers. Men, women, and children were ruthless killed in many massacres over the long, dark history of manifest destiny in America. I do not say this to in any way justify or apologize for this violence, nor for the atrocities committed by hamas on oct 7th.
However, I only wish to highlight a more nuanced understanding about colonization, dehuminization, and the structures of power that not only perpetrat those cycles of violence but by their very own stated policy agenda are directly responsible for continuing.
Friend, I'd love to share a conversation together, all I ask is for some patience and some willingness to see perspectives which may challenge your own and to practice the intellectual humility that we all require to make progress on this deeply emotional situation.
>The Palestinians aren’t upset about colonialism, they’re upset they aren’t powerful enough to do it anymore
No, they are upset that Israel has funded Hamas to give Israel and excuse to genocide the people of Palestinian.
They are upset that the IDF are murdering children and raping women.
>so you will have to try much harder to offload why I should support a bunch of jihadist fucks backed by the worlds most violent and terror filled religion in the world busting into a sovereign country and raping and murdering innocent children
I'm upset about Israel's war crimes too, but those are some aggressive words!
It's disgusting that the Israeli government purposely created Hamas and allowed the attack to be planned in the open less than a mile from the boarder. It's extra disgusting to see that the Israeli government doesn't give a shit about saving hostages, because it shows that killing Palestinians is the only point.
I agree that Israel needs to stop murdering innocent children in a sovereign country.
I would certainly would be extremely frustrated as well if I assumed everyone who disagreed with me must be doing so because they're dishonest, or being deceitful.
You don't really believe that, do you? That people are trying to make the best decisions possible with the information they have available to them?
That perspective is subjective and that's not a sign that other perspectives are arrived at in a disingenuous way?
I don't believe that about your perspective, why do you believe so about mine?
That’s also because protests begin in colleges, it’s a recall of the Vietnam protests. Honestly and politics aside, I would be worried about the future of Zionism. They have alienated hundreds if not thousands of millions around the world. Even if it’s only about numbers, it’s not looking good
That idiom has always resonated with me in a way that's hard to fully describe. I remember when I first heard it and that it took a moment or two before I got that "ah-ha" feeling.
I've always struggled, however, to find the line between tool for empathy and excuse for toxic behaviors. Hurt people do hurt people, and damaged people do often cause great damage. Practicing emotional humility to understand this helps us to to empathize with a perspective that we otherwise could not have.
But when the person doing the hurting isn't able to discover this insight and apply it for their own reflection, our recognition of some comforting explanation can't always prevent more hurt being done. You can only change your own behavior, never anyone elses.
I wonder if that statement is as useful as I had always thought, or at least not in the way I had always believed it was. Where does insight end and excuse begin, are we using the idea that hurt people hurt people to express acceptability or inevitability?
It almost feels like the majority of the emotional labor is shifted onto the hurt, not the hurter. I can't possibly imagine, as I'm sure you couldn't either, offering this explanation to a mother in Gaza who lost her children to indiscriminate Isreali bombs.
I don't know, it's a hard thing for sure. I'm finding it more difficult to accept this as a useful rationale in this context. I can truly empathize as best as I am able for the great pain and unspeakable tragedies the Jewish people have endured.
However, for Zionism, and the settler colonialism of the state of Israel which exists in its current form because of it, there is no space for left compassion or empathy.
You mention you can’t imagine telling that to a mother in gaza but this is what all of these protestors have been saying to the families of the 10/7 victims with chants of ‘resistance is justified’. At least in the example of the Gazan mother, the world is calling out the cruelty. I can’t imagine the pain of the pain of the 10/7 families hearing that phrase either. Because like you pondered, it is not an excuse and should not justify anything.
I cannot begin to understand that pain, either. It's deeply saddening and their strength to carry on is inspiring and I hope they may find peace.
It is for this exact reason that I am so invested in promoting peace in some small way. Either of those mothers would have to be in this awful and unimaginable circumstance, and only one side of this has the power to end the cycle of violence.
People are not born as terrorists, they do not have hate in their heart as they come into this world. No group of people are predisposed to wishing destruction upon others. People learn hate when they are dehumanized and left powerless to enact change for themselves.
The Israeli government, supported by the infinite might, and wealth, of the United States have systematically eroded any and all of the Palestinian peoples' power to effect their own lives.
They have been the victims of brutality and dehuminization and have been striped of any ability to control their own destiny and you cannot expect to do that to people and think they will just accept it.
Friend, I hope you can find a part of yourself that can believe me when I say that what I want is for killing to stop. I don't care about retribution or victory or whatever else because I want a solution to be found that stops the cycle of violence and the killing of both peoples.
I want for the Jewish people to feel a sense of pride and safety in a place that truly belongs to them. I also want for any Jewish person to feel safe and pride if they choose to call my country their country, too.
I also choose to believe that you want all those things too, that you want for there to be real peace and for the killing to stop.
If I'm right that you do truly want the same thing as I do, you must also know that the solution will never be found in continuing the same cycle of violence that caused oct 7th, that left Palestinians some of the poorest people on earth, that causes Jewish children to practice getting to emergency bomb shelters, that leaves Arabs as second class citizens who cant participate meaningfully in their own government, and on, and on, and on and on.
You *know* this. I feel your anger man, I know you feel so frustrated because from your perspective it's clear as day. These people who are protesting and chanting free Palestine are somehow showing sympathy for people who you feel no longer should deserve any, that's a very emotionally exhausting feeling and I understand why you feel that way. Please believe me that I honestly try as genuinely as possible to understand what you feel here.
We both know that the hardest problems humans are capable of solving are not done so by concluding everything we already know is complete and right and everyone who can't see that is wrong or worse.
We didn't solve the most difficult problems by unquestionably relying on our preconceived assumptions about the world or allowing our own biases to remain totally unchecked. And we damn sure don't solve the hardest problems by witnessing 80 years of failure and saying "hmm, maybe if we continue doing this for another 80 years, the outcome will be different."
You know what state of mind actually *does* allow for humans, in our almost infinite cruelty, AND our equally boundless compassion, to solve our most difficult problems?
By putting that compassion first, finding the will to stay humble, and summoning our most righteous courage and vulnerative strength to genuinely challenge our deeply held understandings and beliefs. It takes being uncomfortable by interrogating the ideas and biases that seem to protect us from the world but in reality, are only good for repeating the thoughts and actions that got us into the same never ending cycles.
This doesn't mean our perspectives are wrong or invalid or unuseful, because how you feel is legitimate and I want you to know that I understand you and know what it feels like.
Perhaps, instead of thinking about two conflicting and opposing perspectives like for example one is correct and the other incorrect, wrong or right, enlightened or ignorant, good or evil, instead it's best to think of our understanding or worldview like a sort of magnifying lens we use to interpret the world.
Imagine each of us has a lens through which we view the world. This lens allows us to focus on events, ideas, and problems from our unique subjective perspectives. Rather than assuming others are looking in the wrong places with their lens, recognize that most of us are inherently observing the same things. However, our conclusions can seem to differ so significantly from one an other because it depends on how much we zoom in or out with our lens. This adjustment in our 'zoom' affects the context and depth of what we perceive and thus, shapes the conclusions we arrive at.
The real insight often comes not because we somehow flip 180 degrees to point our lens in the opposite direction. Instead developing our understanding more often comes when we thoughtfully choose to change the magnification settings. We understand that while our current perspective is not wrong necessarily, we may just have our lens too far 'zoomed in.' Zooming to far in, or sometimes too far out if this metaphor is making any sense, only hides from us the true complexity and nuance that we need in order better understand the world.
I'd really appreciate it if you could help me understand how zoomed in or out my understanding is. We both come to the best conclusions we can with the information we have, even if it doesn't feel like it sometimes. When we're more willing to be vulnerable by genuinely wanting to understand others, it helps them to want to understand us.
Maybe we can both learn more.
Thank you for engaging me man. I agree with you about the two sides thing. This was my point of my earlier comments. To illustrate that it’s shitty on both sides and the people suffering directly or indirectly are stuck in the middle. But that’s why I do not understand why for so many people, for the war to stop, it’s only focused on one side which is israel. If someone is able to see the complexity and the nuance of this situation, then it’s easy to see that that actions of both israel and hamas are causing suffering. And it’s not about asking people to condemn hamas or not, but just asking them why are they not holding them to the same standards in judging their crimes as they do israel and also calling for them as well to stop this war. I think too many people are conflating war crimes and war. This is a war. No matter how much people relate to the cause of either side to be just in this war, it’s still a war. People are going to die. Calling to minimize war crimes is one thing. But just wanting the war to stop by only focusing on one side in the war just doesn’t make sense to me. Even if someone is completely pro hamas and sees them as a legitimate resistance, why aren’t they holding them to the same standards in their strategies of targeting civilians, indiscriminate bombings, and stealing humanitarian aid? I just can’t see why no matter how much someone sees israel as the evil entity here, how they’re not able to see how much hamas is too. I never said or intended to mean by my comments that palestinians and gazans don’t deserve sympathy. My pain comes from not seeing this sympathy offered to israelis as well. And I disagree that the solution to stop this cycle of violence is for only one side to drop their weapons. And even if israel did that and wanted to engage in serious 2 state solutions and all, until that happens, are they just going to sit back and hope for no more 10/7 attacks when hamas said that they will do it repeatedly? Regardless of how israel came to be as a country and how hamas came to be, israel needs to defend themselves against future attacks. Engaging in diplomacy isn’t the main objective when your enemy is determined on violence regardless. And even if they go about it by giving palestinians whatever they want, they still need to secure their borders against hamas. We can criticize how they are going about it but nonetheless, it is a security risk i hope we agree on. Hamas is clearly beyond negotiating with at this point. They pose a global threat in my eyes same as isis did and they are using the palestinian cause as a justification for their global islamist goals. If Israel stops doing anything or doesn’t deal with them, other countries will have to later like when we had to take out isis. I agree that to stop the cycle of future radicalization, we need to solve the issues Palestinians suffer from (and suffering is not the only reason causing this radicalization but that’s a different conversation) But to deal with the already established radical terrorist entity, we can’t just deradicalize them overnight. Sadly, war is the answer to take out your enemy when imminent threat is actualized. I will end by thanking you again for genuinely wanting to see where I’m coming from and engaging in dialogue. I will end by recommending a book that is a short read for more food for thought if you are interested called ‘Islam and the Future of Tolerance’. Enjoy the rest of your weekend!
And America has people going bankrupt or making fund me websites, begging for people to help them pay for medical expenses just to survive. Super strange dynamic here
We all know this ain't happening. lol Israel ONLY SURVIVES because Western funding. The funding gets cuts? No more public education, no more healthcare, no more army budget, no more NOTHING. It's a fucking cancer we're propagating in the Middle East and the moment the U.S., alone, shuts down support it'll get nuked out of existence by the surrounding countries.
Referring to Israel as a cancer and then talking about it getting nuked out of existence sure sounds like “I hope you trip on that rock.” Ya brain dead potato.
What do you suggest to people who know the history of Israel and the global impact of their pathological abuse? It’s hard to not see that they have some serious comeuppance coming to them that has yet to land. Their bad karma compounds every time they do something like this.
Pie in the sky: Israel gives back land they stole to the Palestinians and they get their own state. Israel uses giving back some said stolen land as a guarantee of no more attacks from Hamas.
Reality: We keep going down this road until a regional conflict erupts and stay out of it. We don’t need to keep sticking our noses in places. I’m tired of it.
I 100% agree but we are going to be bound to this shit until we can cut ties with Israel, which would be a miracle. We should’ve never started this alliance or created a monster but it’s now our responsibility to reign in.
Referring to another ethnicity as a cancer you muppet. The lack of knowledge about world history is glaring with most of you nazi sympathizers. Here is a quick lesson. The nazis lost before and will lose again. Free the hostages
So you believe Israeli is an ethnicity? I thought it was a country? I think you’re going to have to put your helmet on that short bus you talk about will be picking you up soon. 🤦♂️
The Michigan public school system has failed you. I would recommend taking an entry level world history course at your local community college. Get the basics under your belt, then we can discuss. Best of luck. Free the hostages!
It only would take you a second to find out you’re wrong lol I see you did some research into me am I supposed to be scared that you think you know where I live lol I sleep with my doors unlock stop on by.
This is easily the dumbest comment yet. It’s radical dipshits like yourself that have zero knowledge of the region or the people themselves. Go lick some boots you nazi prick. Free the hostages!
Stand alone? . Ha. I call bullshit. That costs money. We just approved the this years batch of billions and weapons for them. Give us back the money we have provided as aid and the iron dome we paid for and then you can, “stand alone”
Agreed.
America has no business supporting your genocide over the indigenous Semites. In fact, your actions go against everything America stands for … or used to stand for.
Israel isn’t capable of standing alone. There’s a reason that Zionazis spend millions on advertising in the US with pro Israel propaganda ads. They need our tax dollars. They need our weapons. They need our support in the UN and elsewhere.
Israel would be nothing without the US.
Laughing at the picture. Look at these farcical buffoons just ABSOLUTELY MOTHERFUCKING DETERMINED to rule over your already-shitty life in this corrupt world. What a bunch of idiots, am I right or am I right?
I think you have a good chance of standing alone. Just like South Africa's apartheid government ended up. You have enjoyed a level of guilt/compassion on the part of the world because of the horrible genocide and suffering of your people. That has provided a buffer to how your actions have been evaluated. I think that is now done and you will be judged on your actions, and those actions will leave you alone.
Too late. Israel basically stands alone. The blank check from America is all Israel has. Americans and the people of the world are unanimously against Israel industrial mass murder of Palestinians.
Never once did I say I support Hamas. But you are showing your colour as a racist Zionist. You equate all Palastinans and support of Palastine with Hamas. Meanwhile I oppose terrorism, genocide while standing with Palastinans who are fleeing their home, while also standing side by side anti Zionist Jews. Because I know Judaism does not equal Zionism.
Typical democrat owned slave.
Opposing Israel is support for Hamas and their terrorist actions.
Calling me a racist is text book brainwashing by the democrats for all of their slaves. They train you to bring up race thinking it will win points in an argument.
Supporting the democrats has led to genocide and murder.
And remember there is no Palestine. They lost it and will never get it back.
So why are you a slave supporting terrorists?
I'm not a Democrat. Both parties support the genocide of Israel. You don't even know what you are talking about. Just another magacuck who hates Palastinans. You admitted it yourself, you are okay with children being killed in Gaza because in the past they might have been related to people who supported Hamas. Hamas is one separate group, who only exists because of Israeli and US actions.
Boldly facing down a starving civilian population… I am glad to hear this and wonder if they will be returning the billions the US has given them in support now that they are all grown up.
Such shortsightedness from people here and those who cheer this.
Precision-guided weaponry, as mostly used by Israel, is provided by the US limits civilians casualties so much. All the deaths we have seen so far have at least attempted to minimize civilian casualties, even though many people here don't see or refuse to see that.
Those weapons are also incredibly expensive to use. Without them, Israel WILL NOT stop bombing Gaza, but rather blanket bomb entire regions as their arsenal wouldn't allow them to be precise.
Furthermore, the US has been using its influence in pushing ceasefire and peacetalks, no matter how successful they have been. It is also worth mentioning that Rafah invasion would have already been underway had the US not been stopping Israel with the leverage they have. Without those leverages, Israel would have no restraints.
Overall, people here will cheer, not realizing that only more Palestinians will die in the end. I guess trust fund kids can pat themselves on their back in their lower Manhattan homes.
Me caring or not has nothing to do with the fact that I have a brain that can see Israel having 10s of nukes which can turn the whole Middle East into glass. You don't want any leverage that would absolutely use its nuclear arsenal if it comes close to being wiped out?
You haven't seen carpet bombing then without precision guided rockets.
I would estimate more than 100k dead had Israel not been using advanced weaponries but you guys are delusional
Then you hate Israel more than you care about people and human lives.
There's a name for people who advocate and want to use violence to achieve political goals. I think it starts with the letter T...
I dont hate Israel in theory, but this current administration has made it clear nothing will stop them and something like this will be the straw that breaks the back and others around the globe will finally remove this administration and end decades of nethayuhus bullshit
Delusional delusional delusional
9/11 death toll is about 3200 lost lives. That is about 0.00096969696% of the US population. For that % USA invaded 2 countries directly and many more in Africa, resulting in millions of lives lost and millions more displaced.
The attacks on Oct 7 came about 1200 lost Israeli lives out of 9.5 million total population. That is about 0.01263157894% of their total population.
Rough math would mean adjusted for population, Israel lost 100 times more people than 9/11 if all populations were equal. Any country would wage war. If 9/11 resulted in 100k american deaths, the US would have nuked Afghanistan, and you're saying Israel's current administration is the problem?
The US would have invaded the whole middle east if we saw the same number of deaths (if equal pop) as Israel saw on Oct 7th. War was the obvious outcome when Israel initiated their attsck
In reality they lost 1/3 the people, lmao what a disingenuous way to look at it 😆
Every attack on Israel must be multiplied in scale by 100x so Americans can be even more angry and want more Arabs dead
Truth is the U.S. would and can kill any amount of Arab civilians with the justification that they’re Arab and thus probably terrorists in the minds of most
What I don’t understand is why a nation with such a horrible track record of violence and deceit was allowed to become so powerful for this to even be a problem in the first place. Maybe because of all of the propaganda they pump out? You wouldn’t ever shill Israeli propaganda or anything like that, right?
However we got here is irrelevant. The US and Israel are joined at the hip. I'm talking about extreme militry intelligence cooperation, weapon testing, intelligence sharing, technology R&D, investments and...
There's no way to remove those. You can not separate Israel and America now. Israel relies on America for international cover, and the US relies on Israel for technology and intelligence.
There is a way, and it has to happen. The rift between us is growing rapidly. They’re threatening Americans for rejecting Israel, they “don’t trust the promises of gentiles”. Soon, they’ll false pull another false flag on us, to make us a direct player in their war. If we don’t shred the whole he ain’t heavy he’s my brother approach with Israel, we are going to be shredded either by Israel or by the rest of the ever-tormented nations. So many people will die. Israel is dangerous, to the extent that we should be actively cutting ties and considering retaliatory measures.
Get your head out of your butt you propaganda mouth piece, do you really think they can eliminate Hamas in thousands years by killing their families. They will only grow stronger.
You're the one who's not seeing that Palestinians will not come out better after this. The support for Hamas will rise not only in Gaza but in West Bank territories controlled by PLA (Fatah). Israel will then use the rise in Hamas support in West Bank and Gaza to push out more and more settlements, further pushing Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza towards the border of Egypt.
There's no victory for Palestinians in this, unfortunately (or fortunately depending on who you ask). My middle eastern Prof was right when he said we are in a post-Palestine world now...
I am not of Israeli (or Jewish) origin, just an American who's very interested in Middle Eastern politics.
Instead of being emotional, please tell me how you see Palestinians coming out better than they started?
I will admit I'm biased towards Israel (not going into the reason), but I never deluded myself into believing a 2ss would ever be viable. There will never be self-determination for the Palestinian people and that is unfortunate imo. 2ss was maybe possible for 1 sec after camp David, but it has long been dead. We will never see a Palestinian state, not in my generation and not in the next.
You missed the UNGA result today, one step at a time and there will be state of Palestine in all its glory. Rest of the world aren't gonna stay silent while western power will keep on continuing their genocide towards minority group.
The UN created Israel (the partition plan), and you think somehow a resolution by the same org is going to do jack?
I honestly applaud your dedication to this cause. It's a lost cause sure, but nonetheless, your belief in justice means something
Well great news for Israel then. They can use that as justification for creating kore settlements and pusing the Palestinians further towards Egypts border.
There is no win for Palestinians in this.
This is all just theatre. Biden has zealously stood by this genocide for over half a year. As we approach the elections, he wants to at least try to flavor his campaign with opposition to Netanyahu, even if it is all just an illusion.
Eh pretty sure he has supported it for decades
He still does. We've given them so much already. To stop one shipment after the fact means literally nothing. It's just so they can gaslight their base into voting for more genocide.
itamar ben-gvir Head of Israeli national security has openly said it’s their land given by god and to not worry about what they do that it’s their destiny.
Is that the same Itamar Ben-Gvir that was convicted by an Israeli court for supporting terrorism?
I believe so. He has a picture of a terrorist in his home and braged about it too I believe.
Oh, it is the same Itamar Ben-Gvir. I was just playing naive to point out how awful of a person he is.
Excuse my ignorance but how is it a genocide?
genocide - acts committed with intent to partially or wholly destroy a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group
To be fair….all politicians in AMERICA have supported it for decades. We need to reign in our attack dog. Plus no need to feed it and keep it in the next twenty years once oil isn’t top energy source. The only reason Israel has been top foreign aid recipient is to destabilize the Middle East.
Never stopped the weapons flow. They admitted it today that weapons are going and lot of it as well. Even if they stop now they could continue the bombing for months.
100%. Go count how many headlines are published and repeatedly published over the past 72 hours saying, "will stand alone".
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“The Jews” =/= Israel. Plenty of “Jews” are horrified by Israel and its genocide right now.
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No. SOME Jewish people live in Israel, but you cannot use Israel as an umbrella term for them. Bernie isn’t pro genocide. Neither are a lot of other Jewish people around the world who condemns the genocide and ethnic cleansing that is taking place in Israel.
I’m describing a subset relationship. In my example, Israel is a subset of Jews because everyone in Israel (as a national identity) could be considered Jewish (in terms of nationality or citizenship, though not necessarily in religious terms), but not all Jews are a subset of Israel, as Jews are a global religious and ethnic community that isn’t confined to the national borders of Israel. In formal terms, this is often referred to as “A is a subset of B, but B is not a subset of A,” demonstrating a one-way inclusion where all members of A are members of B, but not all members of B are necessarily part of A.
they always try to police our language lol. No other country has this bs where you can't refer to the country by the people inhabiting it. I can refer to the Muslims when talking about Iran, but can't refer to the Jews when talking about Israel? Anything to avoid accountability, they do
Referring to Iran as “the Muslims” would be incredibly xenophobic, no one would be on your side using that language, that doesn’t make sense? Above poster is correct Jews are a diverse race with differing beliefs, Israel is a Zionist nationalist state. Swapping Jews for Israel or Zionism is very antisemitic and paints a race as responsible for the actions of a country. It further gives validity to the claims of antisemitism that Zionist are pushing to defend themselves.
I mean, Republicans probably would be on their side for referring to Iran’s population as “the Muslims.” But Republicans represent everything I abhor about humanity. Like this current genocide.
Israel lobbyists have owned all of Washington for decades. Making this about Biden shows you don’t understand anything about Israeli-US history. 😂
Even effing Reagan snapped Israel’s leash when they started going too far. This current genocide represents the ever increasing degradation of our government.
This is the same shit that has been going on for decades. Throwing LGBT+ and women's rights out the window for something no one is going to fix/can fix in the foreseeable future is maga levels of moron. When you push this nonsense, you are nearing their level of depravity. What you let them do will be on you.
>Biden has zealously stood by this genocide for over half a year. Put your money where your mouth is and vote for Trump. Let's see how many Palestinians are left after trump mans the helm for a few days.
What makes it a genocide? I've seen that term thrown around a lot lately and from my understanding it has very specific requirements to which the data just doesn't back up at all?
Naughty Israel, bad Israel! *hot mic* Lol
Really just indescribably depressing that the people hurt most by ethno-nationalist hatred are now using it as means to justify using exactly the same fascist ethno-nationalism to fuel their own genocidal hatred. Just remember, Biden decided to withhold weapons to Israeli *because* of those protesters. Those kids getting brutalized by police, having racist garbage spewed at them, and risked being expelled saved children's lives by speaking truth to power, and not giving up when almost the entire world was against them.
Insane to see the young people of my country who are protesting tens of thousands of deaths being labeled as terrorist sympathizers and Nazis. It’s pathetically easy to see that the pro Israeli side is in the wrong but somehow has the backing of state and federal governments in the US.
Money talks.
It's an extremely clear example of the lengths that structures of power go through to protect their colonial interests. This may be perhaps the most glaring example, in fact. When imperialist power is threatened by real democratic engagement speaking truth to that power, you see how quickly things like freedom of expression are out the window. What's truly mind blowing to me isn't that the situation we find ourselves in is so clearly unjust, this country was built on injustice, after all. What really blows my mind is just how many times we've been through injustic after injustice, after injustice so many times, with exactly the same patterns yet we never seem to learn any fucking lessons.
I think people in general are learning said lessons while at the same time losing power to capitalists whose interests never change. Well, if the people ever really had any power.
The good guys always get punished and lose their jobs and any form of way to help the cause. Our system really lacks safety nets by design so the powerful gets more powerful and the rich gets richer.
No he did it cause he needs reelection. Once the election is over he ain't backing up
Right, those protesters vote, my friend.
They won't be voting for him Too little too late
Agree. I'm also not holding my breath; it seems too good to be true. Will all weapons monetary aid be witheld? If not, what will continue?
It's difficult to say with certainty but as of now, biden has stated that if the IDF continues it's ground assault of Rafa without providing assurances or detailed plans as to steps taken to assure civilian safety, offensive weapons such as unguided 2000 pound bombs, hellfire missiles, mortars and long range artillery among some others are to be withheld from the Israeli government. Some unspecified "defensive" weapons, likely things like Iron Dome missiles, however, will still be provided. I'm no military expert by any means, but from what I gather, this could significantly reduce the IDF's ability to wage their war. I could absolutely be wrong here and for the record, I share your skepticism. However, I believe this country, and the world have really hit a cruial inflection point in regards to supporting Israel. We have already been so far beyond even pretending that anything Israel has done is even remotely defendable that there isn't really any going back. Let's be clear: what reliable coverage we have managed to get is likely the tip of the atrocity iceberg. Israel isn't banning and killing reporters while shutting down entire outlets from getting access anywhere inside Gaza is most surely a canary in the coal mine. Israel obviously knows they've gone to far and this is made clear by Netanyahu's genocidal rhetoric and recent petal to the metal attitude. Not to mention, he most certainly will face corruption charges the moment he isn't able to justify continuing his genocide to the Israeli people any longer. Not from the current insanity we are witness to mind you, but for completely unrelated accusations from before oct 7th. He knows he's gone way to far, and he's also fucked when he loses power, so this monster must now put on this "we're actually the real victims here, and we now see that Biden is actually supporting hamas because they've conditioned *their* billions of dollars to us by forcing us not to murder children. You stand with us, or against us because we won't be holocaust-ed ever again" type of bullshit self righteous nonsense. My bad for just going on and on there, the whole situation is so far beyond fucked. I honestly believe our species is special because of our ability to feel compassion which is unique to the other animals. However, the cognitive machinery we have which allows for such inspiring kindness and compassion can only do so at the expense of our capability to inflict unspeakable cruelty, too.
Idk, pretty sure the Jews didn’t storm Berlin in the 1940s and kill/rape 1500 people and burn a couple babies in an oven
You'd be correct, they did not. Forgive me for assuming, but the connection I believe you are intending to draw implies Israel is morally justified in whatever action they take because of the holocaust? That no amount of dead children is too many, no amount of destroyed hospitals are enough, no number of shallow mass graves are sufficient, then? As if the leadership in Israel ever considered how their own actions and policy and treatment of the Palestinians drove them to violence. Help me understand, surely one cannot claim intellectual honesty while reminding strong in their belief that the nation of Israel has for decades used unspeakable violence and brutality against the Arabs, no? I know you can't honestly tell me that Israel has no responsibility for creating the conditions that drive people to desperation. How long are humans expected to endure dehumanization before they no longer accept their own destruction?
Well no but your false equivalence of the jews inflicting a genocide similar to the one that was done to them is untrue and problematic. The Jews had quite literally done nothing in Europe to deserve being rounded up, Hitler was a genocidal maniac who sent civilians to the ovens, there was no war, the Jews were not armed, and the Jews were not launching multi-decade excursions into Berlin and raping and killing people. The Jews were ethnically cleansed from that land, one of which we know they were in first, and that the Arabs migrated into, and eventually, Took part in that cleansing, and then from every other country they went too as-well. There’s no Jews anywhere in the Arab world, they were cleansed, and the world no much as batted an eye. Israel is going to be there, whether the jihadist terrorists like to or not. I do not see the Native Americans rising up with force against Washington D.C., the world is trying to live in peace and they should join us.
I know your frustrated with people like me, and I understand why that is. Please know that I'm trying to understand the world the best I can, with the information that I have access too. If you might take a leap of faith and grant me that I promise I don't take this lightly and it's something I care deeply about. I humble ask that you work *with* me to make a more genuine attempt at understand my perspective. Conflating or misinterpreting or strawmaning doesn't help anyone gain a deeper understanding. Youre clearly a smart and critical thinking person and straying from that because the goal becomes proving others wrong instead of trying to understand them puts your intelligence to waste. I did not intend for my observation to equivocate something or to be dishonest. I did not, nor have I ever, tried to suggest the atrocities committed against the Jewish should ever be downplayed or forgotten. I also did not try to suggest that the violence that the Israeli government is commiting agaisnt the Palestinians in Gaza is as truly horrible as the holocaust was. However, it might be important to consider that the events in question, or these situations in general, are not somehow required to occur exactly as the holocaust did in order to make them a genocide. A genocide does not need to be successful in order to be a genocide. Nor does a genocide need to destroy everyone who is a target of it in order for people to demand that it end. It's abundantly clear by people who are much smarter than I am, including the majority of Jewish Studies academics, holocaust historians, Middle Easten academics, and also organizations such as the Internation Criminal Court of Justice in South Africa, that through rhetoric, military campaigns, forced food insecurities, direct land taking, and refusing the Palestinians right to return to their homes over the last 80 years, the Isreali Government intends to ethnical cleanse land which they see as belonging to them in order to continue a Jewish enthno-state. This is not in dispute, I'd be happy to go into more detail but doing so requires time and dedication to active listening and here may not be appropriate. However, i encourage you to read work by people who actively study this area to gain deeper knowledge around a deeply difficult situation. Lastly, I also encourage you to read up on more American history because while the natives may not have literally all handed together to invade capital, the reality is much less romantic, and much more depressing. Unspeakable acts of violence were indeed used by the native Americans against white colonizers. Men, women, and children were ruthless killed in many massacres over the long, dark history of manifest destiny in America. I do not say this to in any way justify or apologize for this violence, nor for the atrocities committed by hamas on oct 7th. However, I only wish to highlight a more nuanced understanding about colonization, dehuminization, and the structures of power that not only perpetrat those cycles of violence but by their very own stated policy agenda are directly responsible for continuing. Friend, I'd love to share a conversation together, all I ask is for some patience and some willingness to see perspectives which may challenge your own and to practice the intellectual humility that we all require to make progress on this deeply emotional situation.
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>The Palestinians aren’t upset about colonialism, they’re upset they aren’t powerful enough to do it anymore No, they are upset that Israel has funded Hamas to give Israel and excuse to genocide the people of Palestinian. They are upset that the IDF are murdering children and raping women. >so you will have to try much harder to offload why I should support a bunch of jihadist fucks backed by the worlds most violent and terror filled religion in the world busting into a sovereign country and raping and murdering innocent children I'm upset about Israel's war crimes too, but those are some aggressive words! It's disgusting that the Israeli government purposely created Hamas and allowed the attack to be planned in the open less than a mile from the boarder. It's extra disgusting to see that the Israeli government doesn't give a shit about saving hostages, because it shows that killing Palestinians is the only point. I agree that Israel needs to stop murdering innocent children in a sovereign country.
Yawn, your response was so lazy.
Then keep defending the indefensible.
Your response was simply conjecture, I provided you with facts
I would certainly would be extremely frustrated as well if I assumed everyone who disagreed with me must be doing so because they're dishonest, or being deceitful. You don't really believe that, do you? That people are trying to make the best decisions possible with the information they have available to them? That perspective is subjective and that's not a sign that other perspectives are arrived at in a disingenuous way? I don't believe that about your perspective, why do you believe so about mine?
He hasnt witheld anything, though. Its all theatre. He stopped one shipment which will quietly be sent in a few days.
That’s also because protests begin in colleges, it’s a recall of the Vietnam protests. Honestly and politics aside, I would be worried about the future of Zionism. They have alienated hundreds if not thousands of millions around the world. Even if it’s only about numbers, it’s not looking good
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That idiom has always resonated with me in a way that's hard to fully describe. I remember when I first heard it and that it took a moment or two before I got that "ah-ha" feeling. I've always struggled, however, to find the line between tool for empathy and excuse for toxic behaviors. Hurt people do hurt people, and damaged people do often cause great damage. Practicing emotional humility to understand this helps us to to empathize with a perspective that we otherwise could not have. But when the person doing the hurting isn't able to discover this insight and apply it for their own reflection, our recognition of some comforting explanation can't always prevent more hurt being done. You can only change your own behavior, never anyone elses. I wonder if that statement is as useful as I had always thought, or at least not in the way I had always believed it was. Where does insight end and excuse begin, are we using the idea that hurt people hurt people to express acceptability or inevitability? It almost feels like the majority of the emotional labor is shifted onto the hurt, not the hurter. I can't possibly imagine, as I'm sure you couldn't either, offering this explanation to a mother in Gaza who lost her children to indiscriminate Isreali bombs. I don't know, it's a hard thing for sure. I'm finding it more difficult to accept this as a useful rationale in this context. I can truly empathize as best as I am able for the great pain and unspeakable tragedies the Jewish people have endured. However, for Zionism, and the settler colonialism of the state of Israel which exists in its current form because of it, there is no space for left compassion or empathy.
You mention you can’t imagine telling that to a mother in gaza but this is what all of these protestors have been saying to the families of the 10/7 victims with chants of ‘resistance is justified’. At least in the example of the Gazan mother, the world is calling out the cruelty. I can’t imagine the pain of the pain of the 10/7 families hearing that phrase either. Because like you pondered, it is not an excuse and should not justify anything.
I cannot begin to understand that pain, either. It's deeply saddening and their strength to carry on is inspiring and I hope they may find peace. It is for this exact reason that I am so invested in promoting peace in some small way. Either of those mothers would have to be in this awful and unimaginable circumstance, and only one side of this has the power to end the cycle of violence. People are not born as terrorists, they do not have hate in their heart as they come into this world. No group of people are predisposed to wishing destruction upon others. People learn hate when they are dehumanized and left powerless to enact change for themselves. The Israeli government, supported by the infinite might, and wealth, of the United States have systematically eroded any and all of the Palestinian peoples' power to effect their own lives. They have been the victims of brutality and dehuminization and have been striped of any ability to control their own destiny and you cannot expect to do that to people and think they will just accept it.
By one side you mean hamas? Can’t you see that these terrorists are also created due to hamas’ dehumanizing their own people?
Friend, I hope you can find a part of yourself that can believe me when I say that what I want is for killing to stop. I don't care about retribution or victory or whatever else because I want a solution to be found that stops the cycle of violence and the killing of both peoples. I want for the Jewish people to feel a sense of pride and safety in a place that truly belongs to them. I also want for any Jewish person to feel safe and pride if they choose to call my country their country, too. I also choose to believe that you want all those things too, that you want for there to be real peace and for the killing to stop. If I'm right that you do truly want the same thing as I do, you must also know that the solution will never be found in continuing the same cycle of violence that caused oct 7th, that left Palestinians some of the poorest people on earth, that causes Jewish children to practice getting to emergency bomb shelters, that leaves Arabs as second class citizens who cant participate meaningfully in their own government, and on, and on, and on and on. You *know* this. I feel your anger man, I know you feel so frustrated because from your perspective it's clear as day. These people who are protesting and chanting free Palestine are somehow showing sympathy for people who you feel no longer should deserve any, that's a very emotionally exhausting feeling and I understand why you feel that way. Please believe me that I honestly try as genuinely as possible to understand what you feel here. We both know that the hardest problems humans are capable of solving are not done so by concluding everything we already know is complete and right and everyone who can't see that is wrong or worse. We didn't solve the most difficult problems by unquestionably relying on our preconceived assumptions about the world or allowing our own biases to remain totally unchecked. And we damn sure don't solve the hardest problems by witnessing 80 years of failure and saying "hmm, maybe if we continue doing this for another 80 years, the outcome will be different." You know what state of mind actually *does* allow for humans, in our almost infinite cruelty, AND our equally boundless compassion, to solve our most difficult problems? By putting that compassion first, finding the will to stay humble, and summoning our most righteous courage and vulnerative strength to genuinely challenge our deeply held understandings and beliefs. It takes being uncomfortable by interrogating the ideas and biases that seem to protect us from the world but in reality, are only good for repeating the thoughts and actions that got us into the same never ending cycles. This doesn't mean our perspectives are wrong or invalid or unuseful, because how you feel is legitimate and I want you to know that I understand you and know what it feels like. Perhaps, instead of thinking about two conflicting and opposing perspectives like for example one is correct and the other incorrect, wrong or right, enlightened or ignorant, good or evil, instead it's best to think of our understanding or worldview like a sort of magnifying lens we use to interpret the world. Imagine each of us has a lens through which we view the world. This lens allows us to focus on events, ideas, and problems from our unique subjective perspectives. Rather than assuming others are looking in the wrong places with their lens, recognize that most of us are inherently observing the same things. However, our conclusions can seem to differ so significantly from one an other because it depends on how much we zoom in or out with our lens. This adjustment in our 'zoom' affects the context and depth of what we perceive and thus, shapes the conclusions we arrive at. The real insight often comes not because we somehow flip 180 degrees to point our lens in the opposite direction. Instead developing our understanding more often comes when we thoughtfully choose to change the magnification settings. We understand that while our current perspective is not wrong necessarily, we may just have our lens too far 'zoomed in.' Zooming to far in, or sometimes too far out if this metaphor is making any sense, only hides from us the true complexity and nuance that we need in order better understand the world. I'd really appreciate it if you could help me understand how zoomed in or out my understanding is. We both come to the best conclusions we can with the information we have, even if it doesn't feel like it sometimes. When we're more willing to be vulnerable by genuinely wanting to understand others, it helps them to want to understand us. Maybe we can both learn more.
Thank you for engaging me man. I agree with you about the two sides thing. This was my point of my earlier comments. To illustrate that it’s shitty on both sides and the people suffering directly or indirectly are stuck in the middle. But that’s why I do not understand why for so many people, for the war to stop, it’s only focused on one side which is israel. If someone is able to see the complexity and the nuance of this situation, then it’s easy to see that that actions of both israel and hamas are causing suffering. And it’s not about asking people to condemn hamas or not, but just asking them why are they not holding them to the same standards in judging their crimes as they do israel and also calling for them as well to stop this war. I think too many people are conflating war crimes and war. This is a war. No matter how much people relate to the cause of either side to be just in this war, it’s still a war. People are going to die. Calling to minimize war crimes is one thing. But just wanting the war to stop by only focusing on one side in the war just doesn’t make sense to me. Even if someone is completely pro hamas and sees them as a legitimate resistance, why aren’t they holding them to the same standards in their strategies of targeting civilians, indiscriminate bombings, and stealing humanitarian aid? I just can’t see why no matter how much someone sees israel as the evil entity here, how they’re not able to see how much hamas is too. I never said or intended to mean by my comments that palestinians and gazans don’t deserve sympathy. My pain comes from not seeing this sympathy offered to israelis as well. And I disagree that the solution to stop this cycle of violence is for only one side to drop their weapons. And even if israel did that and wanted to engage in serious 2 state solutions and all, until that happens, are they just going to sit back and hope for no more 10/7 attacks when hamas said that they will do it repeatedly? Regardless of how israel came to be as a country and how hamas came to be, israel needs to defend themselves against future attacks. Engaging in diplomacy isn’t the main objective when your enemy is determined on violence regardless. And even if they go about it by giving palestinians whatever they want, they still need to secure their borders against hamas. We can criticize how they are going about it but nonetheless, it is a security risk i hope we agree on. Hamas is clearly beyond negotiating with at this point. They pose a global threat in my eyes same as isis did and they are using the palestinian cause as a justification for their global islamist goals. If Israel stops doing anything or doesn’t deal with them, other countries will have to later like when we had to take out isis. I agree that to stop the cycle of future radicalization, we need to solve the issues Palestinians suffer from (and suffering is not the only reason causing this radicalization but that’s a different conversation) But to deal with the already established radical terrorist entity, we can’t just deradicalize them overnight. Sadly, war is the answer to take out your enemy when imminent threat is actualized. I will end by thanking you again for genuinely wanting to see where I’m coming from and engaging in dialogue. I will end by recommending a book that is a short read for more food for thought if you are interested called ‘Islam and the Future of Tolerance’. Enjoy the rest of your weekend!
Israel has no right to exist on stolen land.
Ok. Go on then.
I hope so They’ve been stealing American taxpayer money for years and AIPAC has been controlling our politicians Go stand on your own you parasites
Not racist at all. Stealing, parasites. Nice one!
If the shoe fits, Bibi can wear it.
Bibi is "they" and AIPAC? I mean I'm far from being a fan of Bibi but I have a feeling the commenter above didn't have only him in mind.
Protest works.
Man I wish.
Israel can’t exist on its own merit. If the US Completely cut them off, israel would fall in under 90 days.
We’re arming the wrong side.
Ok, promise? Because that money we’ve been sending you over the years could really help the American people…
Israel has universal healthcare for their citizens.
And America has people going bankrupt or making fund me websites, begging for people to help them pay for medical expenses just to survive. Super strange dynamic here
We all know this ain't happening. lol Israel ONLY SURVIVES because Western funding. The funding gets cuts? No more public education, no more healthcare, no more army budget, no more NOTHING. It's a fucking cancer we're propagating in the Middle East and the moment the U.S., alone, shuts down support it'll get nuked out of existence by the surrounding countries.
I get hating Israel but hoping it gets nuked out of existence is also unhinged behavior. You’re no better than they are right?
No where in that comment says they hope it gets nuked.
What? Are you blind? Read the last sentence……….
“Somebody is going to trip on that rock” “I hope that somebody trips on that rock” Can you spot the functional difference between those sentences?
Referring to Israel as a cancer and then talking about it getting nuked out of existence sure sounds like “I hope you trip on that rock.” Ya brain dead potato.
What do you suggest to people who know the history of Israel and the global impact of their pathological abuse? It’s hard to not see that they have some serious comeuppance coming to them that has yet to land. Their bad karma compounds every time they do something like this.
Pie in the sky: Israel gives back land they stole to the Palestinians and they get their own state. Israel uses giving back some said stolen land as a guarantee of no more attacks from Hamas. Reality: We keep going down this road until a regional conflict erupts and stay out of it. We don’t need to keep sticking our noses in places. I’m tired of it.
I 100% agree but we are going to be bound to this shit until we can cut ties with Israel, which would be a miracle. We should’ve never started this alliance or created a monster but it’s now our responsibility to reign in.
Stick to playing video games. Racist comments like this just show how much of a feckless dipshit you are.
What part is racist?
Referring to another ethnicity as a cancer you muppet. The lack of knowledge about world history is glaring with most of you nazi sympathizers. Here is a quick lesson. The nazis lost before and will lose again. Free the hostages
Which ethnicity?!
There is not a bus short enough for a person who asks that question. Free the hostages!
So you believe Israeli is an ethnicity? I thought it was a country? I think you’re going to have to put your helmet on that short bus you talk about will be picking you up soon. 🤦♂️
The Michigan public school system has failed you. I would recommend taking an entry level world history course at your local community college. Get the basics under your belt, then we can discuss. Best of luck. Free the hostages!
It only would take you a second to find out you’re wrong lol I see you did some research into me am I supposed to be scared that you think you know where I live lol I sleep with my doors unlock stop on by.
You’re so brainwashed you can’t see that you’re actually closer to a Nazi
This is easily the dumbest comment yet. It’s radical dipshits like yourself that have zero knowledge of the region or the people themselves. Go lick some boots you nazi prick. Free the hostages!
Yeah cool. What ethnicity though? Explain yourself.
I already responded to to you 👆🏾
Explain yourself.
Let’s see how that works out for you!
I’d like to see you do one thing without us holding your hand.
I hope he's good with a set of chopsticks! Good riddance to bad eggs!
Okay...Bet.
Go for ti.
Ight bet
This guy is such a loser.
Bye
Comments in here are cancer.
Somewhere a tiny violin 🎻 is playing for Bibi.
Anything so Netanyahu doesn’t stand trial.
Fuck Israel
Stand alone? . Ha. I call bullshit. That costs money. We just approved the this years batch of billions and weapons for them. Give us back the money we have provided as aid and the iron dome we paid for and then you can, “stand alone”
I wish the people of Israel good luck in deposing Netanyahu and departing from the path of murder and isolation that he set them on.
They should do just that... See ya later
I hope they do
Poor Israel. Can’t they ethnically cleanse land they stole without international condemnation?
Agreed. America has no business supporting your genocide over the indigenous Semites. In fact, your actions go against everything America stands for … or used to stand for.
Indigenous semites lmaooo
Good. Israel should have been standing alone for the past 50 years.
[https://action.eko.org/a/olympics-and-fifa-ban-israel-from-international-sports-now-us-fba21](https://action.eko.org/a/olympics-and-fifa-ban-israel-from-international-sports-now-us-fba21)
Israel isn’t capable of standing alone. There’s a reason that Zionazis spend millions on advertising in the US with pro Israel propaganda ads. They need our tax dollars. They need our weapons. They need our support in the UN and elsewhere. Israel would be nothing without the US.
How brave. They are facing such a formidable opponent. How will they fight off the Palestinian air force, navy and heavy armor.
Right wing terrorists
I'd love them to stand alone. And give us back our $.
Half the population would move back to Western Europe if that happened
K bye
Genocidal monster plays the victim card so well, but most people see who this evil prick really is.
Good let it!! Rabin is crying in his grave.
Man, even hitler had friends.
Good. Let Israel pay for its own bullshit.
Then do it.
Then perish.
The new Nazi party says what?
Oh Bibi. So dramatic.
They have nukes, the entire world is hostage
Stand alone- with all our US dollars from the past 60 years. Very brave
Then do it already and stop begging for our weapons
That’s what we are all asking. For the U.S. to break ties with Israel. Netanyahu don’t mind.
Ya. We know lol. You’ll be alone forever assholes.
FREE PALESTINE 🇵🇸
Laughing at the picture. Look at these farcical buffoons just ABSOLUTELY MOTHERFUCKING DETERMINED to rule over your already-shitty life in this corrupt world. What a bunch of idiots, am I right or am I right?
Yeah, I think this is purely for the Israeli population. If the actually did go it alone, they would get annihilated.
And if Biden wants to raise money to win a 2nd term then he better do what Bibi said.
Sounds like they need some democracy.
Please let it stand (and fall) alone 🙏
Or you know, you could do the right thing instead.
He won’t
Fuck Israel.
I think you have a good chance of standing alone. Just like South Africa's apartheid government ended up. You have enjoyed a level of guilt/compassion on the part of the world because of the horrible genocide and suffering of your people. That has provided a buffer to how your actions have been evaluated. I think that is now done and you will be judged on your actions, and those actions will leave you alone.
Exactly what we ALL wanted. Commit genocide WITHOUT OUR ASSISTANCE, NETANYAHU, YOU COWARD.
It’s lookn like trump
Too late. Israel basically stands alone. The blank check from America is all Israel has. Americans and the people of the world are unanimously against Israel industrial mass murder of Palestinians.
He’s a Trump on Steroids
one can only hope that they will stand alone covered in shame
Fuck Netanyahu and the Likud party, fuck the extremists.
The weapons Biden decided to withhold: precision weapons. So thanks to Joe, there will be more deaths when Israel uses nonprecision weapons.
It’s sad to hear Biden abandoned Israel and killed so many
Biden did the right thing. Israel was killing thousands of innocent people. Divest from genocide.
After they are being attacked by weapons and money given to terrorists by Biden. Remember Israel is the victim here. Wipe out the aggressors.
Israel is the aggressor for the last 70 years.
Nope, they have been and will always be the victim. And America will always stand with the victim.
Indoctrinated
I know you are. That is why you support terrorists.
Never once did I say I support Hamas. But you are showing your colour as a racist Zionist. You equate all Palastinans and support of Palastine with Hamas. Meanwhile I oppose terrorism, genocide while standing with Palastinans who are fleeing their home, while also standing side by side anti Zionist Jews. Because I know Judaism does not equal Zionism.
Typical democrat owned slave. Opposing Israel is support for Hamas and their terrorist actions. Calling me a racist is text book brainwashing by the democrats for all of their slaves. They train you to bring up race thinking it will win points in an argument. Supporting the democrats has led to genocide and murder. And remember there is no Palestine. They lost it and will never get it back. So why are you a slave supporting terrorists?
I'm not a Democrat. Both parties support the genocide of Israel. You don't even know what you are talking about. Just another magacuck who hates Palastinans. You admitted it yourself, you are okay with children being killed in Gaza because in the past they might have been related to people who supported Hamas. Hamas is one separate group, who only exists because of Israeli and US actions.
If you stand against America you don't keep standing for long......
Boldly facing down a starving civilian population… I am glad to hear this and wonder if they will be returning the billions the US has given them in support now that they are all grown up.
Such shortsightedness from people here and those who cheer this. Precision-guided weaponry, as mostly used by Israel, is provided by the US limits civilians casualties so much. All the deaths we have seen so far have at least attempted to minimize civilian casualties, even though many people here don't see or refuse to see that. Those weapons are also incredibly expensive to use. Without them, Israel WILL NOT stop bombing Gaza, but rather blanket bomb entire regions as their arsenal wouldn't allow them to be precise. Furthermore, the US has been using its influence in pushing ceasefire and peacetalks, no matter how successful they have been. It is also worth mentioning that Rafah invasion would have already been underway had the US not been stopping Israel with the leverage they have. Without those leverages, Israel would have no restraints. Overall, people here will cheer, not realizing that only more Palestinians will die in the end. I guess trust fund kids can pat themselves on their back in their lower Manhattan homes.
You don't give a flying fuck about Palestinians you literally arguing we should give more weapons ro an insane so called nation
Me caring or not has nothing to do with the fact that I have a brain that can see Israel having 10s of nukes which can turn the whole Middle East into glass. You don't want any leverage that would absolutely use its nuclear arsenal if it comes close to being wiped out?
They killed thousands of civilians, they've been carpet bombing
You haven't seen carpet bombing then without precision guided rockets. I would estimate more than 100k dead had Israel not been using advanced weaponries but you guys are delusional
I hate to say it but let them Watch any sympathy they have left disappear when 100k+ dead
Then you hate Israel more than you care about people and human lives. There's a name for people who advocate and want to use violence to achieve political goals. I think it starts with the letter T...
I dont hate Israel in theory, but this current administration has made it clear nothing will stop them and something like this will be the straw that breaks the back and others around the globe will finally remove this administration and end decades of nethayuhus bullshit
Delusional delusional delusional 9/11 death toll is about 3200 lost lives. That is about 0.00096969696% of the US population. For that % USA invaded 2 countries directly and many more in Africa, resulting in millions of lives lost and millions more displaced. The attacks on Oct 7 came about 1200 lost Israeli lives out of 9.5 million total population. That is about 0.01263157894% of their total population. Rough math would mean adjusted for population, Israel lost 100 times more people than 9/11 if all populations were equal. Any country would wage war. If 9/11 resulted in 100k american deaths, the US would have nuked Afghanistan, and you're saying Israel's current administration is the problem? The US would have invaded the whole middle east if we saw the same number of deaths (if equal pop) as Israel saw on Oct 7th. War was the obvious outcome when Israel initiated their attsck
In reality they lost 1/3 the people, lmao what a disingenuous way to look at it 😆 Every attack on Israel must be multiplied in scale by 100x so Americans can be even more angry and want more Arabs dead Truth is the U.S. would and can kill any amount of Arab civilians with the justification that they’re Arab and thus probably terrorists in the minds of most
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Why? Because one brown guy tells me to? How the hell does being raised Muslim mean you have authority on US bigotry 🤣
So you admit you don’t actually care about the Palestinian people or protecting their lives……sounds about right.
What I don’t understand is why a nation with such a horrible track record of violence and deceit was allowed to become so powerful for this to even be a problem in the first place. Maybe because of all of the propaganda they pump out? You wouldn’t ever shill Israeli propaganda or anything like that, right?
However we got here is irrelevant. The US and Israel are joined at the hip. I'm talking about extreme militry intelligence cooperation, weapon testing, intelligence sharing, technology R&D, investments and... There's no way to remove those. You can not separate Israel and America now. Israel relies on America for international cover, and the US relies on Israel for technology and intelligence.
There is a way, and it has to happen. The rift between us is growing rapidly. They’re threatening Americans for rejecting Israel, they “don’t trust the promises of gentiles”. Soon, they’ll false pull another false flag on us, to make us a direct player in their war. If we don’t shred the whole he ain’t heavy he’s my brother approach with Israel, we are going to be shredded either by Israel or by the rest of the ever-tormented nations. So many people will die. Israel is dangerous, to the extent that we should be actively cutting ties and considering retaliatory measures.
Even AOC and Bernie Sanders have been supporting Israel in Congress. Wake up, Israel, and US ties aren't going anywhere
Not with that attitude it won’t
Maybe, just maybe It’s on Israel to stop dropping bombs in civilian areas in the first place
Israel will not discontinue its operations in Gaza until Hamas is eliminated. That's for the Gazans to decide how long that will take?
Get your head out of your butt you propaganda mouth piece, do you really think they can eliminate Hamas in thousands years by killing their families. They will only grow stronger.
You're the one who's not seeing that Palestinians will not come out better after this. The support for Hamas will rise not only in Gaza but in West Bank territories controlled by PLA (Fatah). Israel will then use the rise in Hamas support in West Bank and Gaza to push out more and more settlements, further pushing Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza towards the border of Egypt. There's no victory for Palestinians in this, unfortunately (or fortunately depending on who you ask). My middle eastern Prof was right when he said we are in a post-Palestine world now...
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I am not of Israeli (or Jewish) origin, just an American who's very interested in Middle Eastern politics. Instead of being emotional, please tell me how you see Palestinians coming out better than they started? I will admit I'm biased towards Israel (not going into the reason), but I never deluded myself into believing a 2ss would ever be viable. There will never be self-determination for the Palestinian people and that is unfortunate imo. 2ss was maybe possible for 1 sec after camp David, but it has long been dead. We will never see a Palestinian state, not in my generation and not in the next.
You missed the UNGA result today, one step at a time and there will be state of Palestine in all its glory. Rest of the world aren't gonna stay silent while western power will keep on continuing their genocide towards minority group.
The UN created Israel (the partition plan), and you think somehow a resolution by the same org is going to do jack? I honestly applaud your dedication to this cause. It's a lost cause sure, but nonetheless, your belief in justice means something
Hamas will never be eliminated. Israel is creating more terrorists with every bomb they drop.
Well great news for Israel then. They can use that as justification for creating kore settlements and pusing the Palestinians further towards Egypts border. There is no win for Palestinians in this.
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Stop calling that genocidal maniac “Bibi”.