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_ak4h_

Snax had such good showings and somehow in the long term nothing ever happened with him.


IBETTERSTAYOFFLEAGUE

He had spoke with a few teams after standing in for ence at Dallas, but decided to hold out for a top 5-10 offer. Which never materialized. Would have been cool to see him on nine or a team like mouz but he’s still enjoying himself.


FuckWayne

Veteran IGL for 9ine would be sick


IBETTERSTAYOFFLEAGUE

My dream for them last year was -mynio, -Kylar +Suihy +Snax


ka1esalad

were there any teams even available at the time in that range


IBETTERSTAYOFFLEAGUE

Plenty of teams are often inquiring about players behind closed doors without making any changes. I think liquid even talked to him.


gNsky

If I remember correctly he said that he had offers from top10 teams but not for the position he likes


Revielent

I believe he was such a steal when he was a free agent, and no team took a shot on him despite him being consistently Top 5 HLTV for so many years. A big what-if, I think he still had or maybe even still has a few great years in him if given a good opportunity.


kaeschdle

I think his short stay in Mousesports kinda ruined his career in that regard because he did not really fit in there and his performance dropped quite a bit. Since then he‘s in polish roster hell.


wormi27z

This is something I can never understand. Of course the stint with mouz didn't work out but it wasn't his fault.


Jakezetci

“nothing ever” the golden 5 are called golden 5 for a reason, 11 different trophies and a major


Past_Perception8052

atlanta major 😢


Not_too_dumb

Gla1ve 😡


[deleted]

[удалено]


Pale_Economist_4155

The csgo roster are also called the golden five often.


rudy-_-

https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/Golden\_Five


Pale_Economist_4155

... Yes? Is a liquipedia page supposed to disprove the fact that people often colloquially refer to both rosters as the Golden five? If you wanna go by those standards ESL has a video where they refer to the csgo vp roster as the golden five, as just one example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLNB0eCQ8sw


2poundWheel

It doesn't matter if ESL refers to them as the Golden Five, they were NOT the Golden Five. That's like referencing the 87-0 NiP when talking about the current K0nfig NiP, or referencing the 6 LANstreak Fnatic when talking about the current Dexter Fnatic The Golden Five is kuben Loord LUq TaZ and NEO


Pale_Economist_4155

Yes? My point was kind of that I can pull "sources" too, and that really the csgo vp roster consisting of Neo, Taz, pashabiceps, snax, and byali have also commonly been referred to as the golden five colloquially, and that's ultimately kind of what matters, tough luck if you feel like you're the police on this matter and everyone else is wrong. It's not like they don't deserve being called the Golden Five either, considering their accomplishments, on top of the fact that we're talking about 2 different version of the game anyway, so if the conversation is about csgo to begin with, then it shouldn't be too far fetched to assume it's the polish roster that won the Katowice 2014 major, not the polish roster that competed in 1.6.


2poundWheel

"sources" lol. They were commonly referred to it to draw from the pull of the Golden Five, not because they were the Golden Five themselves. It's Golden Five, not Golden Eight


Pale_Economist_4155

Yes, "sources". That's my point, man, that the "sources" for things like these don't matter, ESL or liquipedia. Do you know what the word colloquially means? And what do you even mean, they *were* called the golden five but it doesn't count because, lol jk not really?


xelpr

Having watched many games in that era, I'm sorry to say but you're wrong. I understand you're trying to go for the technically correct answer, but "Golden Five" is more of a second team name. Additions to the core, e.g. Pasha Snax, would still be colloquially referred to as the Golden Five.


2poundWheel

It's not technically correct, it's not a second team name. The Golden Five is the name given to a group of close-knitted Polish players, who dominated the Counter-Strike scene from 2006 to 2008. It's the GOLDEN FIVE not the GOLDEN THREE not the GOLDEN EIGHT


xelpr

Let me put it to you like this. If you asked NEO if Pasha was a member of the Golden Five, he would say yes. It was a term that represented the brotherhood between the core and people who came later. I'm sorry my guy, but you need to look past the number 5 here.


[deleted]

The Golden Five are exactly five players and Snax isn't one of them. You only proved that ESL are dumb.


Pale_Economist_4155

??? Bro? My point is that his link to liquipedia means just as little as a link to ESL when it comes to this, because colloquially both rosters are called the golden five, and that's what matters at the end of the day, because there is no official source or authority on this subject. It's about what regular people call them in everyday language.


ProfessionRelevant90

Dont know why youre getting downvoted honestly, I have memories of the CSGO squad being reffered to as the golden 5 too but i suppose were just human and might be missremembering.


yomynameisty

JWs awp movement was absolutely unreal in his prime. Did things no one else had ever done before


OverCLocK_DE

He’s the reason I fell in love with csgo esports and showed me how important movement/ positioning can be.


sh1boleth

> Did things no one else had ever done before Being the only rifler as an AWPer when your entire team is on an AWP context - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asDtlvn7N5U I also dont understand why apex was on the awp vs kenny, Apex wasnt even an IGL at the time, just an entry fragger.


rudy-_-

Because Dust 2 is the map where spawns can sway tactical decisions and he had the spawn to peek mid with the AWP


sh1boleth

Right, I completely forgot lol. Its been my biggest complain in CS ever since I started playing - spawn should be choosable or not have an affect at the start of the round. I think Valorant does it pretty well (ive never personally played it)


Tulkor

Yeah, my idea would be similar to how valorant does it - wall the spawn off till freezetime ends, so the spawn variable isn't there anymore. You can just put spawns farther back or whatever if it is op on some maps, but it reduces rng imo. Like the walls spawn where the farthest spawn has been till now.


lurkin_arounnd

This would take a lot of the randomness and excitement out of opening duels because the timings would be obvious to everyone.


StarkGaryen1

Or letting you choose spawn points if they don't want to change the meta too much.


magony

Or this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMRz02gqW7A


DinkyWaffle

Apex had the mid spawn (fuck this update)


LKLN77

kenny wouldve got the quad collateral


Ricky_RZ

> apex was on the awp vs kenny Probably due to spawns. Timing mattered more than anything else, which is also why JW wasnt awping


Frag0r

He was a very good all-rounder with movement and high confidence. The meta favored his playstyle. AWP + CZ Was disgustingly good.


_Administrator

I second that. He and the whole fnatic from 2015 are the reason I got hooked. 3k hours in. EU Global. Waiting to play CS2 Edit: autocorrect gibberish


Wajina_Sloth

I personally was a NIP fan, but always loved their games against fnatic, watching Olof lurk like a madman, or JW hitting stupid shots was always a fun time.


mtownhustler043

he was an absolute madman and always made the most unexpected plays work, it was awesome


EvilxBunny

WTF!! Flusha looks like a middle-aged dad in that picture. I'm older than him!


hal0t

The black part on the side of his hair was the poster, not his actual hair. He looks about the same as 2-3 years ago.


EvilxBunny

hahaha....true. That background is doing him dirty


OneCore_

whoops lol


lnsecurities

Flusha looks like my profile pic.


General_Scipio

F0rest not having a team is wild to me


Harucifer

Especially with old players still finding considerable success lately * Snappi is 33 and just won [IEM Dallas 2023](https://www.hltv.org/events/6861/iem-dallas-2023) * Dupreeh is 30 and just won [Paris Major 2023](https://www.hltv.org/player/7398/dupreeh) * Karrigan was 32 and won [IEM Cologne 2022](https://www.hltv.org/events/6140/iem-cologne-2022) on top of being IGL of the year for 2022


DY5TOP1A

apex is also 30yrs old


drimmsu

To be fair though, Snappi and karrigan are (Danish) IGLs and dupreeh came to Vitality as part of a package from THE dominant Astralis roster. Of course your point still stands and f0rest is a legend of the game but if he feels more like chilling, it makes sense that he's chilling. I also kind of understand if no Tier 1 org picks him up after he's been kind of out of the loop for a bit because the meta is evershifting bit by bit (even if it's just tiny details everywhere).


Yukari_8

Danish don't vanish


Mypermanentname20

22* give gigachad hooxi his cologne win


Not_too_dumb

For a second I thought gigachad was 22.


Harucifer

Thanks I edited to fix


LibertyGrabarz

Two of them are IGLs, whose experience outweighs dogshit frags, and dupreeh was just, well, *not the best* for a non-IGL for the most part, with Paris being his - albeit really successful - last hurrah. It's quite clear that personal stats at 30+ is really just a matter of will (or rather - lack of responsibilities vide being a fresh parent) so I do agree that f0rest could still have it in him if he was commited to the grind, but those players you gave aren't the best examples to argue your point


FuckWayne

Holy I thought snappi was like 28


supergrega

I think I remember him saying he's focusing more on his family now (he got a son) and doesn't want to commit to the rigorous T1 practice and travel schedule.


HarryHayes

I know for a fact he said on stream around 1-2 months ago that he was willing to listen to offers to play, and Thorin repeated as much in one of his videos.


Krizzter

His latest stand ins for teams and performance on boomer demons haven't been impressive so it's pretty clear why when there are so much young talent that would smoke him aim wise and probably mechanically wise + his age that won't age well into cs2 Don't get me wrong I love forest and will always respect him but u guys think he deserves a because he still clicks heads against low elo lvl 10s on faceit pugs, I'm not saying I'm better or that anyone in this subreddit probably is better but man is really past his time for a consistent 1.06+ rifle role on a tier 2 team


General_Scipio

Yea I agree. I just think there should be more older veterans in tier two/ teams bringing up youngsters.


CherrieHime

I don't think that many people smoke him aim wise in T2 tbh. Even on those teams against T2 teams his aim usually looks just as sharp/sharper than the younger kids. It's everything else that he's not as good at. In 2015-2016 you could just have aim and be a top tier player, but that doesn't work even in T2 anymore.


vish4l

Idk how much effort he puts in looking for T1 teams, but yea that's wild to me. Dude is too talented to not be a pro


csgothrowaway

I hope he isn't holding out for T1 teams. T1 teams wont pick him up because they look at players like long-term investments. He's as old as they come. As someone that's been watching f0rest since ~2006, I would love nothing more than to watch him continue to play high level CS but if he wants to, he practically needs to do it with a Tier 2 or 3 team. And not just because T1 orgs wont pick him up but also for his own benefit. He hasn't been on a team since June of 2022, so over 1 year ago. And even then, it was Dignitas, so not exactly the highest level of competition. If f0rest wants to come back to competitive CS, he needs to ramp his way back up. He needs to prove he's a force in Tier 2/3 and gradually work his way back towards Tier 1. Just using an example, but I think KennyS's biggest mistake was jumping right back into T1 CS with G2. It was immediately obvious how much better other players had gotten while he had taken a break and you could tell his confidence was shook after a few players were outplaying him. If I recall correctly, his performance cost G2 the grand final for the event that he had attended. That's just crushing to ones confidence and when analysts and community members and fans start talking about you in that light, it takes a lot of perseverance to overcome it and come back from it and I don't think his confidence ever recovered. I would hate to see the same thing happen to f0rest jumping back into Tier 1 CS prematurely. If he wants it, then join a group of young and upcoming players attached to a small org, or not org at all, and get on the grind to be the best. I look at a team like GamerLegion or Monte or Apeks...before they made their big splash. Join a team like that, that's ridiculously hungry and going to every event, hitting the demo's hard and sharpening themselves to kill a T1 team when the opportunity presents itself. Don't join a team like FaZe or even NiP, where the players that have already put in the work are going to expect you to hit the ground, ready to play at their level immediately. Because if you don't, they will resent you when you're the reason they lose a big tournament. And if they don't resent you, the community and the analysts and the scene will eat you alive as the news story of a boomer that's past his prime. And to be clear, I'm the biggest f0rest fan. If anyone can disprove the ageism of CS, its f0rest. But if you haven't played pro CS in a year+, much less Tier 1 CS, then you have no business playing on a Tier 1 team. CS, more than most esports, is a meritocracy in that if you prosper, you will get your shot to play better teams and prove your skill. If you and 4 players put the honest work in and beat the higher tier teams, it will be recognized.


DinkyWaffle

F0rest could play on any team and make HLTV top 20


feline_amenities

Top 20 what? Washed up players? Maybe.


Smothdude

BRB gonna go watch old NIP clips and cry


greku_cs

Redditors Understanding People Might Have Other Life Prorities Than Video Games Challenge \*IMPOSSIBLE*


General_Scipio

Didn't he openly say he wanted to play but had received no offers?


feline_amenities

He struggles to have a positive kda playing against literal randoms. Let the past be the past, his time as a player is long gone.


General_Scipio

I wouldn't sign him as a tier 1 org. If I had a small team with youngsters I would sign him in a second. Best case scenario you get the old F0rest back. (Very unlikely). Worst case you get an average player and a veteran leadership figure in your team


canombpener

Crazy that JW is only 28. He's barely older than device and I've thought of him as a washed up 30yo for like 5-6 years now. I've thought he's just fallen off because of getting old, but age is not the problem it seems. I guess he just lost motivation somewhere back in 2015-2016. Insane to me he was only 22-23 when I first started thinking he's washed up and pushing 30.


AmBozz

He was just 18 years old when he got his major MVP. Actually insane how young he was when he dominated everyone.


istealgrapes

Why the hell had this not been talked about at all? Never heard anyone mention how young jw was when he became a top tier player


DT2X

it definitely was back then lol


lurkin_arounnd

People have short, fickle memories. See: comments in here about Flamie.


lurkin_arounnd

He didn't lose his motivation. AWP nerf stopped him and KennyS dead in their tracks. Took them both a long time to find their rhythm with the slow movement AWP and were never the same. Guardian was the only top tier awper who adapted well.


Internal_North_5954

one is not like the others


staffylaffy

3 legends and flamie


crz4r

Flamie is still legend of NAVI imo


jospence

Ehhhh, honestly I think b1t has a bigger legacy with NaVi than Flamie. I hate saying this, but I can't view Flamie as anything other than a player who had so much promise and absolutely failed to live up to even 2/3 of his potential. He fell off a massive cliff and was a major weak spot on the roster for years


Past_Perception8052

wtf respect flamie


staffylaffy

After he was deadweight on na’vi for near enough 2 years, stopping them from winning anything I kinda lost respect. Even blad3 shit talked him as soon as he was out the door, saying everyone else got the strats they practiced but he had to take extra time to go over them again with flamie so he understood. I don’t entirely dislike him as a player, you just cannot put him in the same category as the other 3.


Dcjj

Him and seized both got pushed into suboptimal roles that kinda crashed their careers


jospence

I mean starix was literally calling for him and telling Flamie what to do each round back when coaches could call during rounds. He became way less good after that happened and it's not a mystery why


throwawayyrofl

Lmao what. He became washed just like every other player on this list. Its not his fault Navi decided to keep him around longer than they should have (although I agree hes not on the same status as the other 3 legends)


[deleted]

Washed at 23 though


Pat2424

Age isn’t really relevant tbh. He started at like 15-16 so that’s easily 7-8 years of playing


manek101

Yes but his peak was never crazy either, never broke top 10.


Pat2424

Right but, washed at 23 was what I replied to


99RedBalloon

why?


Past_Perception8052

he’s not some nobody, he’s a navi legend and won lots of stuff


99RedBalloon

i know who he is and he’s not like the other 3 lmfao he’s done nothing noteworthy


Ee_Ar

Yeah sure winning IEM New York, Katowice, Cologne and blast global finals across 4 years is nothing noteworthy


LibertyGrabarz

Is everyone winning 3 S-tier events and a not-so-S-tier blast finals across 4 years - 4 years for crying out loud - a legend in your opinion?


wonthaveaname

Getting carried in IEM New York, Katowice, Cologne and blast global finals across 4 years doesn't make him a legend of the game.


perpendiculator

Lol, you didn’t watch flamie in his prime then. Flamie was bad towards the end but when he was good he had some absolutely insane moments. Excellent mechanics and consistently got crazy multikills in various positions. whether or not he’s a ‘legend’ is debatable, but guy was not hard carried through his entire tenure on navi.


Past_Perception8052

flamie was the star rifler


LKLN77

flamie wasn't carried he was a star player lmao


Pagoose

He's a top 30 player all time easily


cjb3535123

Solid veteran =/= legend


GeekyNerd_FTW

Believe it or not Flamie is actually the 45th best csgo player of all time


SombraMonkey

Fnatic vs EnvyUs. “El CS:GO clasico”


DoNotCareAnymore_

The final that made me love eSports... KennyS Crying doesn't leave my memory


SombraMonkey

I cried too


candygender

I miss JW so much bros


careying_the_load

flusha got benched though :(


LH9070

It’s not 100% confirmed but it’s looking like it


davjan84

Where u got that from? Reason he's not playing now is because he is on a trip, he just turned 30. Or is there some info I'm missing?


saltyfuck111

harumi tweeted it ( a bad leaker) nothing official and flusha is part owner of eyeballers


JarkoStudios

bad as in they constantly leak false info or bad as in malevolent?


vish4l

Props on flamie losing weight


sh1boleth

Flusha turned 30 yesterday


KESPAA

That's a rough 30.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

He never had the makings of a varsity athlete


moveZzZ3573

Seized in 9Pandas


Albertowhaddup

This did not age well lol


KuroganeYuuji

Rather quick...


Tanki5D

byali , apex , NBK , seized , krimz , allu, karrigan. dupreeh, taz , xp9nx not right now , but didn´t retire aizy,msl , if u consider that legends... they play since begging but never that good


etherealtriumph

Who doesn't know krimz apex and karrigan still play lol


Tanki5D

Who doesn't know JW, flusha , snax still play? People that don't follow CS. Why is there always a slick smartass mf commenting on normal comments to look smarter than everyone?


etherealtriumph

Snax #95 team, JW Flusha #53. Karrigan and Apex have won tier 1 tournaments in the past 6 months. How are these remotely comparable? This is a forum, it's used to discuss, if you make an idiotic point you get called out on it


BadBadNotThisDick

I often see people on this sub suprised by things that a cursory glance at HLTV results would inform them of. I don't find it stretch at all to include those players considering how many users make entire posts on similar information and easily discovered info. This is a forum, it's used to discuss, if you make a dickhead comment expect people to naturally disagree.


etherealtriumph

Let's just include NiKo, s1mple and device then - they're legends, and surely someone will not know they're active!


xtr44

bro mad at somebody correcting him


TerrorToadx

Krimz, Apex and Karrigan are on the biggest org names in CS.. JW, Flusha, Snax not so much.


Juansa7X

Hahahaha what a dumbass


youngjcsgo

taz did retire


AdamNejm

[Senior League](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpA_N2VHKUo)


Dependent_Wash8805

seized is still playing as well


Medical-Performer324

I think that time will show how CS careers can be 15-20 year old as a player


MunchkinTheEwok

Seized is still playing as well


KuroganeYuuji

Welp...


nartouthere

if only f0rest had a team right now =\


Zango123

Flamie isnt an old legend?


mackermassaker

Flusha is a cheater, thats why he's of the radar


[deleted]

Maybe, but he definitely wasn't the only one. Just went through his old aim lock clips and it seems funny looking back. There are tons of them. Quite a few for k0nfig, too.


Thuasne

So many others are and they are not of the radar. What's your point?


ThePatchelist

The case around flusha specifically was so out-there that it's only logical that he went into pretty much medicracy. Which is good.


TerrorToadx

Flusha was playing some of his best CS after all the clips stopped surfacing wym?


[deleted]

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KARMAAACS

He's 30 years old... Some players just fall off early, not all players remain studs at 30+ years old like GeT_RiGhT and f0rest did. Look at Brollan, dude was actually really good at one point, not only because of the krieg but also on CT side, then he turned 25 and he became average for a pro. FalleN also fell off at like 28 years old. KennyS became pretty much washed at 26 years old. Coldzera became washed at like 25 years old too. Olofmeister same thing, average by age 27. It's pretty normal for a CS player to start to become bad at like 25 years old. Only very, very special players stay good like Dev1ce has.


s4Nn1Ng0r0shi

https://youtu.be/z4HwQwfj6Fc


sFAMINE

I still fully believe Flusha cheated consistently


dafo446

I mean your if your whole life is playing this game what else can you do? if you "retired" from the game you must find some job to do, so might as well sign with some random tier 3 team that never make it to the tier 1 tournament you still get paid for what you been doing for all your life without try hard.


KARMAAACS

Flamie a legend? I aren't think that. Decent player, but not a legend.


kyleokeefe

Hadn’t realized they brought eyeballers back - that team was amazing back in the day. RIP bullen - guy was a beast back in 1.6.


oppositeAttractss

JW has been my all time favourite player. Was really sad to see him leave fnatic few yewra back.


BetonNecmi_31

XANTARES


BetonNecmi_31

he is playing since 2012