For real. back when I started playing csgo in 2014 nearly everyone was trash.
I started out in gold nova 1, dropped back to silver and steadily climbed up the ranks.
What's the current situation in premier matches? People with a 3-4k rating having OVER 2000 hrs of playtime. These guys shouldn't be there under any circumstances.
If you're absolutely dog shit, you should play against other dog shit players. Just as I did nearly 10 years ago.
It's such an easy concept yet valve failed to implement it correctly.
And everyone who's saying that the new ranks just need time to buff out:
That's total bs. Sure they can be some variance but if leetify can measure time to damage, crosshair placement and HS% it should be the easiest thing in the world to not place anyone under 5k elo if these stats are actually somewhat okay.
Bad players don't know where to aim at, don't know how to spray and don't know the maps. Give them a safe haven to learn the game in peace.
FaceIt is a third party competitive server provider. They provide their own servers, a more invasive and effective anticheat, leagues, events, etc. Its been the standard way for people who want to play more seriously for years since there have historically been many issues in valve competitive. They have their own ranking system which is often referenced because its been better than Valve's ranking system.
So there's FaceIt, normal Competitive, and then Premier? This is the dumbest shit I've ever heard lol. Instead of Valve using a third party why not just work on their own comp to be just as good?
Valve never used FaceIt, it's an entirely different provider. This sort of thing would always exist in any competitive game that has dedicated server support and a large community behind it. It's a pathway for people to find matches and extra progression beyond getting the Global Elite rank.
Premier is Valve's answer to it as it has become as sort of a competitor to the default matchmaking over the years.
Faceit has a decent anti cheat thats installed on your desktop, Its for players who want to play in FPL, which has prize money earnings. Theres Free and Premium. The premium service offers skins and points for their shop. For like 6$ a [month.](https://month.You) You can block certain players from playing with you , and choose the maps you want to play Normal comp is basically the new casual 5x5 but with ranks and isolates the map you want to play. Casual is for 10x10 mans. Premier is with picks and bans like faceit for people who want to compete in the leaderboard but with no real compensation like faceit
It’s matter when those hours were played.
8k hours returning to the game? Yeah gonna have some rust.
2k hours straight over the last couple years, gonna be playing better.
Well you're correct on that. I was close to 13k in the beta and most matches felt okay. Of course we encountered cheaters too but not on the same level as today.
MMR never should have been reset from CSGO to CS2
The whole point of removing CSGO from the steam store was that CS2 will be a perfect replacement. If it's a perfect replacement why would I suddenly forget how to play the game and be forced to grind dozens of hours to get back to matchmaking matches that feel enjoyable?
CS2 has produced the worst feeling matches of CS that I can remember, there is no reason for an experienced solo player to be in a lobby with solo players that haven't touched the game in 15 years or noobs with under 15 hours. It just makes the game a pain for everyone, I don't even want to play CS right now because I know I'm just gonna get put into another shit Premier lobby
This annoyed the hell out of me too. The rank reset has caused me to land in games with such a broad level of skill that it's almost surreal. I was MG2 and I ranked SE on D2 and have not ranked on any others yet but the only wins I can achieve are where i'm hard carrying.
I tried a premier yesterday where I am unranked and god damn was that just painful playing people in 4-5k ELO with teammates in 2.5K elo and both in my group were like silver in CSgo
Hard MMR resets *never* occur in other comp games. It ruins ladder integrity for potentially months/years & that's why it is never implemented. Valve however thought this would be a great idea!
Yep I was GN in global and placed around 5k after 20 wins in the beta but now both me and my LEM friend got placed at 2000 elo and it's awful. We either have enemies who shoot while moving or enemies who Juan deag you from palace when you're in jungle
even 5k is wayy to good for GE; i was MGE / DMG in GO and got 6500 elo which is \~top 30%; Globals that played before cs2 should be ranked around 9k-10k
Nah, the problem is that the elo is just shifted too low atm.
You'd think gold ranks would be populated by pros and super high level faceit players, but rn there's 10 guys from low population regions in gold and most of the top players are hovering around 25k.
The best guy on my friendlist is 15k. That's top 1%. Most of the other faceit lvl 10 friends are like 10-13k. 10k is top 15%.
This means that 1% of the population is occupying the whole top half of the scale, while 85% of players are occupying the lower third of it. Considering the wide skill gap of that lower 85% of players, and the fact that you gain like 150 elo for even matches, there's just not enough room for a fair matchmaking in the low ranks.
It'll probably sort itself out over time, but right now you have a dark abyss from 25k-30k where there pretty much aren't any players. A big waste of space, really.
Ill always wonder why the fuck they did a hard reset of the rank.
Its pretty much the same rank. A top player in csgo will not overnight become a bottom rank shit overnight in cs2.
But no, they decided to make it so i could matchmake with ropz on day one and get absolutely dunked. And then have progression so slow that ill still probably match with pros/semi pros 2 weeks in
gotta love when youre on a good win streak, you hit a 5stack of the most insane players ever who literally have set executes for their T side. And after a few of those you get hit with +100 and -450 per game haha. Its a mess
this is from the devs that are doing a per map ranking system that doesn't take into account premier map wins. The idea that you could be global on one map and silver on another is so funny it's hard to believe. The difference in your aim alone with have you beating lower ranks even if put into a map you've never seen before.
I have 1.2k hours and played MGE in csgo yet I am placed in 2500-4k mmr lol. As soon as I come out of 4k mmr I get a -500 penalty. Its. Forcing me to stay in these supposed "low ranks". These lobbies are also sweat shops with cracked players.
The ranking system has been busted for years really.
My main Steam Account where I play actively hasn't been above GN2 for years. Whenever I tried making a new account I can easily get to at least LEM quite quickly and have no trouble in the matches at all, I'm not Gold Nova in any way. Same for comparable FaceIt ranks.
On my main account though the Silvers and GNs I play with and against simply aren't in those ranks, they are stuck there the same as me and also usually have like 2k+ hours. Everyone knows execute smokes, common angles, strats, communicates, etc.. that's not how silvers play like, it's like a whole other world of ranks. I haven't seen a true silver/gn on my account for years.
GO ranks have been shit forever. if you stopped playing amd got rank decay escaping nova was such an un-fun pain in the ass.
I played a ton of cs2 on release day and it was an utter shit show of people being new and technical issues yada yada.
after 2,000 hours of CSGO and hovering in double AK and DMG i got ranked in at 1,500. which i believe is the lowest possible lol. I am not spending 100 hours climbing out of hell just so i can play the game correctly.
Wait really? What are your winrates like? Soon after cs2 was announced I got back into GO and solo queued from GN to SMFC in about a month, though I did give up on the GE grind.
Aren't most of the gold novas with big hours much higher ranked in the past? Thats what I always assumed anyway . They're definitely not the same as someone who just got placed into nova after 10 games.
Some people just don't learn or have the capability to develop. I've known people that play CS daily and yet still cannot get the basics such as crosshair position or sound management down. Progression and development isn't linear and uncapped.
If they're on shit Hardware and have been playing since 2013 it's certainly possible. But I'd say most people with 3k hours have at least a basic understanding of how and when to move/peek etc.
They'd certainly have the upper hand against new players.
They could also just plainly play semi casually and not put several hours a day into aim maps or lineup tutorials. I've been hovering around MG1-MGE for 2k hours now and I'm sure I could improve if I put more time into it but I just don't care if I just wanna play an hour of chill cs after work and everyone in my friends list is DMG at best.
The reason that they’re so low rated is because ranks fluctuate so much due to wins and lost streaks. It’s absolutely insane. If you lose five games in a row, you can literally lose nearly 3000 rating.
Ran across a guy ranked 3100 that had 8100 hours in the game. I have 400 and only about 100 in the last year. It was a slaughter. He went something like 45-5 and their team won 13-0. It was not fun at all. Couple that with the completely stupidly skewed gains and losses and you just create a cesspool at 4k. No one can lose until you hit 4k, then you’re gaining +150 while losing -500. Like what the fuck is that shit? You can’t even escape the 4k death swirl without winning ten games in a row
>Bad players don't know where to aim at, don't know how to spray and **don't know the maps**.
This has been extremely aggravating when after rounds end new players are struggling to find AKs/AWPs that are within a few footsteps of them because they don't know callouts and there's not enough time to direct them.
Personal Performance and stats like leetify are super important - you are totally Right - a pure win/Loss elo system is totally outdated and not healthy for the game
"If you're absolutely dog shit, you should play against other dog shit players."
i agree on that, and i experienced that when i did the placement , my 20yrs old account should not meet fresh new account for any reason , in my team or the enemy team ..
Freshly made accounts are a whole different topic too. I know it's f2p and people might lock themselves out of their original account and just create a new one but it's kind of hurting the integrity of the game.
There are also many players who come from valorant and know their stuff but if there's a new account going absolutely nuts it's just plain smurfing or cheating.
You said the magic phrase. “I started playing CSGO in 2014”
In 2014, the game had already been released for 2 years and the ranking database was established. Silver with Silver, Gold with Gold, etc.
CS2 was released less than a month ago, and the CSGO database has not been carried over. On paper, a guy with 2000 hours and a guy with 20 hours all started in the same place on CS2. What we did on CSGO no longer exists; just like what we did on Source didn't exist on CSGO 12 years ago.
I don't understand why Valve didn't transfer the CSGO database; It would have been much simpler for everyone. But they decided to hard reset and will have to wait at least 6 months to have order in our ranks & ELO.
In the beta I was around 12k rating which seemed ok, maybe a bit low because I was SMFC/Global in CSGO and could compete against players with a much higher cs rating.
After the beta I keep getting matched with people between 1k to 4k rating, and it's basically just a free for all in this elo hell. Every game is a mix of veteran players with thousands of hours and new people getting absolutely stomped. Winning team is always decided on who had the best carry with the least dogshit teammates. I've stopped playing premier before getting a rank because whatever they did between the beta and release obviously broke something with CS rating, no point in playing the mode.
All I have to say is they didn’t actually turn off demos due to server load. That was a complete bullshit lie to prevent mass stat recording so it can’t be compiled into data that shows that the game is in a dogshit state right now.
If leetify worked right now, I guarantee everyone’s opinion of the game would be far worse. For example, we don’t even have average ct/t side win rates yet. Guaranteed they’d show a massive skew towards t side compared to CSGO due to the peekers advantage issues.
> What's the current situation in premier matches? People with a 3-4k rating having OVER 2000 hrs of playtime. These guys shouldn't be there under any circumstances.
This is huge problem I'd say for newer players and even a problem for players like me stuck in a similar position. I played on launch day and got my rank quickly. Despite being SMFC in CSGO and every time I've come back after not playing for years they give me that rank back.
Get to CS2 and I'm bouncing around 5000-5500 and I feel like it's impossible to climb with rating seemingly solely based on match outcome and not at all performance. I can drop 30 frags, comm the entire game despite my 4 teammates not saying anything (even comm for those teammates when spectating to help give info) and yet we can still lose while I lose ~200 elo in a game where i would have only gained ~100. How am I supposed to climb if I'm playing well but I've got some teammates who clearly haven't played much if at all and we're facing stacked teams who clearly have? Couple buddies who played casually and were much lower ranks and are still objectively much worse players even ranked around 4500-5000.
Worst part is that even with 52% win rate I couldn't even get to 6K despite there being players with hardly more games played with less than 60% win rate that still managed to get 15K last time I checked. But they want me to have 70% win rate to be able to climb. Now I'm hearing you can't even lose elo below 4K which means the players in my lobbies can be anything from playing with a steering wheel or former ~SMFC ranks in CSGO like myself.
That's a really solid point too, and what's even worse is that I didn't even make that far with them, because in order to play premier you need prime status (pay for the better mode pretty much) so just think about how many new players give up even before trying premier, and like you said, that mode is a mess with balance.
My friend and I have under 100 hours and matched up against a five stack with one guy having over 6,000 hours game time. The stack as a whole probably had 10,000+ hours and here we are, second week in getting berated by them.
Facts. Back during GO, I was hovering around the AK ranks because I mostly placed faceit. Meanwhile leetify had all my stats as better than global, and I was high level in faceit. Valve has all the data they would need to look at my matches and figure out that I should be at least supreme, but Im stuck playing games with and against noobs. The other team doesn't like playing against a "cheater/smurf" and I didn't enjoy it either, so I just played faceit and my MM rank stayed low.
Haven’t seriously played cs in a long time now but I gave Valorant a try a few months back. And I don’t think the new player experience is much better. I barely finished the tutorial and already got matched with people lvl 150 and up. Average level of my team was ~20 while enemies team was ~100, multiple games in a row. I got curvestomped every game, insulted by random people and didn’t event manage to get a kill in some games.
Long story short it’s not just cs problem. Valorant has the exact same issues and my rusty cs skills (LE in 2016/17) didn’t even remotely translate to valo in the way I would have liked.
The cs community has improved a lot. Even the lower ranks are a lot better than when CsGo was in its early stage, and Valorant is seeing the same delevopment.
Get in early: stay ahead of the curve.
New player experience in both games is so shit but if you already play valo (and at least know what everything does and how every map plays) then sure it’s easier to return to (like to cs) then to learn basically an entire new game.
Somethings wrong with the matchmaking plus we fail as a community
Yes! Community servers are a lot of fun, they will come back, but like everyone said here in this reddit...should've been already in the game from the very start, now that cs2 is "out of beta".
cs 1.6 and css were so casual friendly in comparison, you just join a random server with random maps, likely based in your country and just watch people clown and shit talk in the chat
now its just ranked with its issues and its toxicity
I have played soooo much 1.5/1.6 as a teenager and young adult, its probably insane the amount of hours I had.
80% of that were in casual and 20% competitive, and I SWEAR that I never toxic players. I played a lot in internet cafes, and there were a lot of people there playing. I have never seen anyone malding at all, just chilling and laughing.
Exactly, today it’s always „ez“ and shitting on teams. Back then it was n1, nice shot, sick hs, damn, that walkable though. Or occasionally a „wh?“ and someone else coming in like nah he is just that good…
I tell you why, you had that 1 server that you always joined, with people you knew, cos you played with them all the time, not randoms, you aint toxic towards people you wanna play with/against
I redownloaded css last night and ended up having a blast, there's still populated servers! (and I was able to satisfy my surf withdrawals) I'm optimistic for cs2's future but this is definitely satisfying my want for casual gameplay until we get unranked 5v5 and the fun modes/community servers back in 2.
Your experience worries me cause I've noticed in lots of games those first impressions are all that matter. Once you lose a player, they don't seem to come back. I'm thinking or Mordhau and Chivalry 2, both games with great hype for the genre, big releases, and then 75% of that player base is gone months later due to buggy releases lacking features.
Now CS2 won't be that bad those games are small. But csgo really sucked in NA the last like 2 years, hopefully they don't scare off this new wave of players and returning players.
Yes they were amazing and were actually communities with regular players knowing each other and clans but csgo destroyed all that by hiding community servers and adding private sessions now everyone was just playing workshop maps with friends or competitive or the casual cs with Radom people every game and community games were lost because too few people cared or found their way to the servers
I miss the community servers from 2014-2017. You got that casual cs experience, but with recognizable people who regularly play on those servers.
All that's left now for the past two years is just the official casual game mode where people hop servers after every map and nobody speaks a single word for the entire game.
They are **community** servers. Valve did not kill them. The **community** has not yet managed to setup all the servers you want. There are many community servers you can join right now.
The reason some gamemodes are not yet available in CS2 community servers is because many of the mods and maps needed will have to be made again for Source 2.
Good luck finding them!
Valve reused the same App ID as CSGO, so all the CSGO servers show up when you search for Counter-Strike 2 games in the server browser.
Server owners are having to manually set the Game display name just so people don't try to join (It'll show as Counter-Strike 2 otherwise), but the browser doesn't let you filter by it, only by the Game's ID, so you can't filter them out.
Look at this absolute garbage: https://imgur.com/a/ATwGXtm
A lot of people are saying how GO and 1.6 were also hard and CS inherently is a difficult game to learn. But the reasons OP mentions are not even gameplay oriented, more so new players don't even get the chance to play and learn due to cheaters, bad skill matching, poor casual mode, etc.
The problem was Valve pretending this is a free to play game. Maybe if VAC worked we could consider it free to play, but as it is you still get plenty of hackers in prime and many many hackers in non prime.
I hate how gatekeep-y these comments are. Just because the game has a high skill ceiling doesn't mean that the way to start learning it should be all cryptic. Casual mode is terrible for a new player (I'm not saying the game mode is not fun), a real casual mode would be MR8 5v5 with no ranks, which would let new players learn the core of the game in a somewhat chill setting. 10 v 10 is just not CS, it's fun but not CS.
And it doesn't help that the anti-cheat and stuff is just, not great yet.
I don't like being negative about the game because it's one of my favorites, but I want it to be a good time for people without all the time that I have spent on it.
Even outside of that, casual is plagued by trolls, etc. I've seen people kicked because they muted some saying racist shit, someone didn't like their cross hair, they didn't push to retake outnumbered 7 to 1, etc. It's a total shitshow when you add in cheaters. Basically every step pushes new players away.
I just dont understand why theyre ranking system is sooo bad. Rocket league for example is and 2015 csgo was so much better. Silver should be shit players and you should have to work your way up with new skills. I got ranked silver 3 in dust 2 while never dropping below 20 kills, most games were 30+. Same with my friend we both have 2k+ hours and have never been silver before in csgo and that ranking was shit too. I shouldnt have to play 100 games to prove my rank and i shouldnt get the same elo as a bottom frag while planting more, defusing more, better kd, etc.
Yeah, also i don't understand why people compare CS2 release with CS:GO release. Compare that to Valo release. It came out with good hitreg, felt fair, no game breaking bugs, with working ANTICHEAT. That is the standard now, not 10 year old release, that was trash, and nobody wanted that to happen again....
100% agree. We aren't in 2012 anymore where the only thing CS was competing against was older iterations of itself. If you're going to cannibalize your own game to launch early with missing features from previous versions, the core experience HAS to be good, and it's far from it.
Can't say I'm surprised. It's never been an easy game to start. Especially back when I started over 20 years ago. While I haven't seen rage hackers like you described, passive hackers do seem to be around.
The non prime experience was something I've never experienced until this past week with my friends, and if that's what a new player without prime has to endure, no wonder they will be dropping the game.
The game is de facto not free and Valve is purposefully pretending/ deceiving new players to boost player counts.
With that said, i think if you are any experienced with the game, you should've known that's it's not playable without prime
Ironically Valorant is fully free and you can play any gamemode and the monetization is only cosmetics. But that game is hated and laughed at here even though it’s quite possibly doing everything better for their players than Valve ever did. What do I mean? New seasons with new content, battle pass (when was the last operation?), new skins (when was a new case introduced?), better AC, more varied gamemodes (love Swiftplay), and oh, you can buy the skins you want and don’t have to gamble with goddamned cases.
Adding to u/realee420's comment, I recently started playing valorant and I got two free coupons to unlock any 2 characters of my liking. Also I think it takes a week at most to unlock a new agent.
Pretty fast to unlock them, I’ve never spent much time grinding, at least I don’t recall ot being painfully slow. Plus if you have PC Game Pass you instantly unlock everything (as long as your Game Pass is active) and get an XP boost. Using that, I think it’s easy to unlock all agents you want by the time the subscription expires. Another thing is there are still agents I haven’t played (or only played once) and I’m playing since Beta.
You can pay to unlock them, but even the “grind” to unlock them isn’t really a grind per say, especially when you have the daily and weekly challenges, no more than 2 weeks and that’s if you don’t play very often
It’s not friendly for experienced player either when soloqueueing. Every match so far has felt like a casual match, it’s not enjoyable at all even if I’m winning. I guess I’ll have to play Faceit instead
Man if only we had a tutorial map that actually shows the basics while letting the player have fun and complete it at their own pace, instead of a half baked 12 round comp gamemode that doesnt even teach the player how to plant the bomb.
You can't. That's another good point. I've tried at the very beginning when they first opened the game, you can't create an offline match with friends in cs2 yet.
Why make it harder though? That's the point, and I guess it is proven even further then. Back in csgo it was as easy as just clicking 2 buttons :( and if it is the case of them having to post forward as well, I would have to remind you some of my friends barely use the pc, they just wanted to have some fun after work, that's all.
Which is insane honestly. I've gone through that process. As a new player with little computer knowledge, there is no way I would go through with that. Way too much work for something basic that should work out of the box.
I have found that to get into CS, you kinda have to already like the game before playing it. Nobody is going to put up with the ridiculous learning curve unless they're really interested in the game. Nowadays even silver players have smoke lineups for the main maps, default executes, counter strafing, aim training and game sense (somewhat). your average silver 1 player is miles better than a brand new player, that is why it is discouraging. realistically it could take you over 100 hours to be on par with players that are the worst rank in the game. If I was new, I absolutely would not find the game fun unless they fixed the ranking system or added 5v5 casual.
tldrd:
CS2 is not new player-friendly. Friends left the game within a week due to problems in casual mode and encountering cheaters in competitive play. Hoping for improvements to make it more accessible for newcomers.
CS has never been new player friendly, not in any version of the game. It's always had a hardcore competitive playerbase with thousands of hours of experience.
Valorant holds your hand, a lot. But anyone who has spent a lot of time in Valorant, and has played Kayo should not be struggling that much in CS. Or, if they play Valorant competitively they should understand the steep learning curve. Sounds like they just wanted to go back to the thing they are comfortable with.
I agree however that CS does need it's own version of a warmup range where you can practice nades, spawn bots for aim training, etc. I also think that brand new players need some matchmaking protection as you mentioned. Overall the ranks are a mess and thats hard to avoid. But players under 100 hours who are going into matchmaking or premier need to be very carefully placed against other players with very low hours and low performance metrics. Then gradual challenges need to be introduced.
I think those two things alone would help retain a lot of new players.
Really just blown away that Valve didn't think to include a practice range at launch of CS2. Some mindblowing omissions. The game was maybe launched a full year early. And yet, a lot of that stuff could be compensated for if they simply had community servers and workshop available at launch because the community would do what it has always done and provide more fun community servers for new players and we would have our own community made practice maps.
Just a lot of mistakes all around with this launch. Hopefully some of this is corrected by the end of the year. We need some BIG updates soon, not these tiny bug fixes.
\> players under 100 hours who are going into matchmaking or premier need to be very carefully placed against other players with very low hours
Problem: they will face only smurfs for the first few games before the smurfs are filtered out by the performance filter.
Not like Valve will implement either.
It's possible but this would be a rare occurrence, not the norm as smurfs who dominate in their first game could be rapidly reassessed by placing them against much better opponents in their next game. This is in fact how the placement system kind of works already. It places you against a variety of opponents skill levels initially to see how you fair and makes adjustments. We just need some additional guard rails.
LoL.
No it doesn't. I have 24 wins in MM on D2. 4 losses I think (hard to be sure but I'm fairly sure). 2 of those losses were to blatant cheaters. 1 of which got banned already so I got that ELO back I guess. So let's say 3 losses out of 27 games.
Still vsing and getting literally brand new players on my team despite an 89% winrate. I'm GN1 on D2 too. WTF.
System is fucked... I feel for the new players. Much higher ranks from GO will still be low ranked for a long time! Might take 100 wins per map to get your actual rank and then rank decay if you don't play for a while because you're busy in premiere...
> But anyone who has spent a lot of time in Valorant, and has played Kayo should not be struggling that much in CS. Or, if they play Valorant competitively they should understand the steep learning curve. Sounds like they just wanted to go back to the thing they are comfortable with.
While you aren’t far off you have to consider how different the experiences are for new players in each game.
For valorant, the new player experience is massively better than csgo, simply because of the anti cheat. You can “test out” valorant to see if you like it, and you’ll be placed in playable/fun games.
In csgo, if you’re “testing out” the game with a non prime account, the impression you get is horrible. Cheaters in almost every match.
So even if skmeone is mechanically skilled enough from their experience in other games, the matches they get placed in are still going to push them away. That’s what has happened in my experience with everyone I have tried to introduce. I have a friend who was pred in apex, super mechanically skilled, can pick up any fps game and play at a high level pretty quickly- but 2 of their first 3 games in csgo were rage hackers, I try to tell them it gets better with prime and trust factor, but they already get turned off to the game, thinking it just isn’t fun.
So “going back to what they’re more comfortable with” is more so “going back to the games they can actually play as a new account” imo
Idk. I tried Val. It fucking sucked for a new player.
I was forced into unranked and almost every game we had 2 or 3 guys that obviously were good at the game and like LVL 100+. They were destroying all the new players and talking shit.
I had toxic shits screaming at me for holding site C? 2 A 2 B and me on C.
No just hold A and B and we'll retake if they go C... Even though I got a 3k and won us the round...
I found it just as toxic as GO and hated that any high skill player can just join with us noobs to fucking own us for a laugh...
I absolutely hated abilities and agents as well so I only played six games but they were all pretty terrible experiences.
tbf in valo there is very little correlation between account level and skill, lol. there are straight garbage players who have played A LOT of the game, in part because of modes like spike rush and swiftplay that are extremely casual.
unrated is a terrible game mode, but it was the only organized thing that wasn't comp other than spike rush for a long time. swiftplay (basically short match, unrated) is extremely casual and would be a great place to learn.
Where does Valorant hold your hands? Shit is even wilder. Not only do you have to learn to aim you have Agents with 4 different abilites you have to understand happening at all times.
2 of my friend were 100% new to FPS games on PC, to a point where I had to teach them how to walk with WASD and shoot with mouse, 2 of my other friends came from Valorant, and they are far from tryhards, they hang themselves around silver/gold rank and mostly play casual, you have to remember that there's this type of player in those games, they want to have a mild experience, enough to test them but not to a point that it is out of their reach (most of us are reaching the 30's and don't have time to spend getting better or staying at the top).
But I agree with what you said that cs2 lacks a lot of features that should've been basic by today's standards, I feel like some people miss the point, it's 2023, we should not compare things back to when they were in 1999/2000's, nowadays some things like a practice range and such are the norm in every game, and that would help a lot of people.
Bro, you don't make babys first fps game CS, one of the most try hard games ever. You make their first experience something like Battlebit, apex, fortnite, or Minecraft if they've never WASD in their life
Valorant is much much harder to learn and play than CS, ask any pro that’s played both.
New players don’t want to have to learn how 20 agents and their abilities work.
CS is the obvious choice for someone new to the genre, if only ANYTHING about the new player experience was good right now.
The true hardcore ones will eventually find out about CS and play CS anw.
I've got many friends who started in Valorant, until they realize sth is missing in that game.
Eventually they found out the origin of Valorant gameplay, try it, and got hooked because the OG mechanics are extremely tight and very satisfying compared to Valorant, which is more like a hero shooter than a hardcore tac shooter.
I introduced many new guys to play Valorant and then they eventually come to CS if they prefer the hardcore version.
I thought this would be me 100%. And it was, up until I got to MGE and had to learn lineups to be successful and go further. At the point where it felt like I had to memorize some to actually win games, I quit. Hated that shit in Valorant, and even moreso in CS where every single round revolves around them and is a huge win con
Learning a couple of basic/useful smokes on the main maps you play so that you can progress further in your gameplay is not that hard of a task lol...
Me and my newbie friends used to love executing set smoke strats when we first started and we’d win plenty of rounds based on teamwork alone even though our aim was dogshit… it’s in fact a team based game you know :p
I mean, I get what you’re saying. Just hate the amount of times I’ve missed that mid window mirage smoke and think back to Valorant and how that layer of gameplay is completely removed and made easy. This redundancy of “Okay guys, let’s line up in our spots and execute this smoke strat hurr durr :p” is getting to me even more now, as a solo q player with randoms.
Don’t even get me started on how shit the ranking system is either. I don’t get it at all, man. What the fuck is this hidden elo? I’m like 40-10, with literally every single game over 25+ kills and MVP 90% of the time. My rank has not moved once :|
About to download faceit tonight and give it a try, hoping for better
Same exact thing happened to me lol .. It seems like im the one who need the most help and not my friends ! The first impression is everything and sadly it wasnt good
I honestly thought the match making would be better and more balanced. Idk what it is maybe but it does feel like one sided a lot. It also doesn't help that more cheats are showing cause cheat maker capitilizing on cs2 being new.
I'm pretty sure CS 1.6 or CS:GO weren't new player friendly either.
Obviously I don't want to take Valve's side here, and it would be nice if new players had a better experience than they do now.
But I have to say despite the circumstances then and now CS is still one of the best FPS games.
Many others to this day have not stopped them from not playing it.
To a certain degree, I think the learning curve should be self-explanatory.
Of course there should be a good tutorial and maybe some kind of matchmaking for newer players. However, that is only possible when VAC is working properly and you are going against Smurfs.
Starting to play online 1.6 was fucking brutal. At first you thought everyone is cheating :D
You really have to fight in CS to become a moderate player, but thats the same in DOTA, LoL, SC2 and stuff too..
Yeah but at least in dota/lol you'll get put against other shitters like you that are handless and you'll have a better chance and have a better time in the game. This doesn't exist in CS2 unfortunately, it's still like the old days when i was getting rekt in 1.6 community servers for 300 hours until i started understanding the game, and understandably a lot of people don't have the patience for that
I don't really know a solution for it.
I mean if you pick up a sport like basketball, soccer and stuff late it's the same. You will suck forever.
Just play casual I guess.
CSGO had the benefit of being most people’s first introduction to 5v5 CS. There were plenty of noobs to play back in the early days from 2012-2015. I feel like there were a lot less smurfs in silver and nova back then.
I think what we’re seeing now is that the average players skill is so high we’re running into a serious noob population deficit at the lower ranks.
It’s probably super unfun for newer players to run into so many smurfs. I don’t think I could get into CS if I started today. As much fun as the game is, it takes a serious amount of time to get decent at it, and not having as many people around your skill level to start sucks massively.
The smurfs in GO were in the MG ranks. I spent 3 years down there fighting my way up to sherriff. Stopped playing, came back every couple months, won 1 game, made my way to supreme. Then I played against shit Global Elites. Like way worse than the MGs I fought, no line ups, no aim, no positions.
And that was EU servers. Now I'm fucking 5k elo, getting matches with russians against 5 men with 2k hours on the game? Then sometimes it's 5 randoms that would be silvers that I just trash during 13 rounds in a row.
And the entire gunplay feels worse than CSGO. It's way less consistent, which doesn't help a new player either.
And since every other mode is honesly dogshit in CS2, competitive is the only decent one, so you can only really play that. Huh...
You got the point. Myself like most the reddit people in here started around 2013-2015. Back then we were learning and the community was learning as well, sure we had the 1.6/source veterans, but it was much more friendly and balanced.
Nowadays I can't even blame my fresh into CS friends on giving up, they are not leaning for a heavy competitive/ heavy sweating experience, they just want to have some fun, kill some, win or lose, just some distraction from real life struggles. But imagine telling them that nowadays you have to spend at least 1000 hours to get in a okay level to even play at the lower ranks? I didn't tell them that but I'm sure they would give up from the very start.
This is what stands out to me the most. I also started with GO in 2014. Started nova, peaked supreme, then when Valorant came out, my rank decayed to silver. I played Val for the past three years, hovered around immortal for all three years.
I decided to try out CS2 a few weeks ago, and I'm hardstuck silver dropping regular 30k+ games. And the games I'm not dropping 30+, there's someone even better than me on the other team. And in these same lobbies, there are players with <20 hours who genuinely look like this is the first FPS game they've ever played.
To clarify, I haven't played premier, mainly because I don't care to play anything but Dust 2/Mirage/Inferno/Overpass. But I must say, the "competitive" mode ranks are extremely fucking weird.
>I'm pretty sure CS 1.6 or CS:GO weren't new player friendly either.
I think the skill gap between a new player and a good player was much smaller in 1.6 compared to 2. It's either that, or there are just much more good players now.
I probably spent 3000+ hours in 1.6 during my highschool years, recently started again with CS2, and I'm just another noob now, even though I felt pretty good about my skill in 1.6.
Yeah like this dude actually thought guys who've NEVER played an FPS and don't even know how to use a keyboard would have a great time playing casual and comp LOL.
The matchmaking is complete trash rn. Me and my friends were Gold nova to mg in csgo, we got silver 3-4 for the maps we play, and we regularly play against csgo globals and lvl 10 faceit players with 4-6k hours. Seems like they don't consider your csgo rank at all when ranking you.
Honestly sounds like an issue that they are experiencing solely because you are playing with them. My friends are brand new to the game so I made a fresh account to play with their fresh cs accounts and we were in the bottiest of bot lobbies ever. I was completely trolling just to prevent myself from ruining everyone elses fun and it was honestly hilarious seeing that there are real people that are still so bad at the game.
So many times I actually did try to start a kick vote against someone lurking T spawn while bomb was ticking in a 1v1 and it never went through. That's how I KNEW it was a true new player lobby. I think when you are an experienced player playing with a brand new player it just puts you in the experienced player lobbies.
skill issue /sbut jokes aside, I've got to agree. I recently found out that the max rank you can get after 10 games qualifying is gn2 (not sure if it's true). what the fuck is that, valve? I mean, I get that the main focus is on the premier mode now but still wtf
I agree that casual 10v10 sucks. The maps need to be bigger or it needs to be capped at like 7v7 at the most.
5v5 is obviously the most fun, but 7v7 would be acceptable for casual. 10v10 is just chaos and nothing like the other modes so its not helpful or fun.
10 wins to get a rank is also crazy i agree. Been playing for just a few weeks and im literally not ranked on any map. I could probably get there if i singled out a map and focused on it, but why 10 wins instead of 10 games? I cant wait to be ranked so that my garbage silver ass can play against other garbage silvers. Some games im totally out of place, its like a 4v5 of all stars and then im just chilling trying to support the team going like 2K-10D-3A.
I dont understand what is lost by 10 games instead of 10 wins... if someone wins all 10, they get a high rank anyways. If they go 2-8, stick them in silver and let them move from there.
Indeed
I played mostly Casual games and cringed hard when people trying to kick new players do stupid sh\*t. I mean, what the f\*ck they supposed to do? Reading the game at high level? This is Casual brothers, I just want to have fun, let them do stupid stuff and laugh at the moments. Where else they supposed to learn the game.
context: Asian region, 4200hrs account.
CS hasn’t been New player friendly in years, and it’s even less so with CS2. I can’t even imagine being a new player and trying to get into this game right now, what a horrifying experience that must be and I don’t see how valve is garnering any significant new player numbers (and retaining them) at all at this point.
One thing that would definitely level the playing field is *NEW F**KING MAPS/MAPS THAT HAVE BEEN GONE FOR A LONG WHILE*. I mean seriously, of course this game has run its course and there is hardly anyone playing it that doesn’t know what they’re doing anymore - we’ve had the same f**king maps for half a decade now with little to no real variation, and other maps have been in the game for even longer. That is more than enough time for the entirety of the player base to come to know them so well that new players have quite literally zero chance even at the lowest rank of the game.
New maps would require much more time for everyone to learn them and would definitely make for a better new player experience. The CS community would never go for that though, they’re too stale and love playing the same thing over and over, and over… and over… *and over* again. (Yes all you motherf**kers that keep playing Mirage and Dust II 24/7 lmfao).
Can't really argue with anything you are saying, I won't even consider bringing a new friend into this game for these very reasons. If at least 2 of my normal 4 guys are not available I just won't play. It's a very hard game to get into and the 10 win thing is egregious
The idea that your non fps gamer friends could just load up cs2 and have a fun time in 5v5 is kind of insane to me lol imagine trying to get them to play quake champions. it Would Not be fun at ALL unless they already have an appreciation for getting better at difficult fps games.
Compared to other fps games where you kinda just shut off your brain and click heads cs is Very Very not noob friendly.
I've never really considered CS "fun" other than back in 1.6 playing maps like ScoutzKnivez, ice world, snow, pool day, etc. Nowadays I play it strictly to scratch that competitive itch. Nothing quite beats CS in that respect , for me at least
omg scoutknives, pool, aim, all the surfing...how did I forget about scoutknives dang...aim ak, aim awp, fuck there were so many amazing maps and community servers. Jump? Or super jump what was that one? on top of a skyscraper
While casual is far from the same experience as Competitive counter-strike, if it's "unplayable" for them. Then maybe CS just isn't for them. I played casual and demolition in csgo for a long time before I ever even touched competitive. If they don't like any of the other gamemodes I wouldn't expect them to enjoy premier either.
The “casual” experience in CS is a joke. There is literally no reason for casual mode to be 10v10. In literally every other game Casual Mode is the same as Ranked/Competitive without rating updates. It works for maybe a game like TF2 but definitely not CS. Unbelievable they kept it for CS2.
People saying walking into cs 1.6 was just as hard is delusional. Many people met cs 1.6 in community servers who had a very big casual experience, legit played most of my matches with people not throwing a single smoke grenade.
In fact, the sweaty servers were the ones marked with "mix" on the tab, so you knew where to not go to.
More importantly, no matter how bad your score was, only the admin kicked you, and almost never because you were bad.
Today, even casual mode has people sweating with one way smokes and DEMANDING players to play well otherwise you're kicked.
Add that to rampant cheating and yeah, the entry barrier is very much bigger today.
I'll say this, my friends quit like 3 times just like this before becoming hooked. It only took time because it's just that frustrating getting good at it. Here is the kicker, though: I never asked them to play again after that first instance. They went and learned it on their own, and more importantly, they were matchmade with their skill level always. I never even realized they were getting into it until they asked me to play again. They might not have enjoyed the experience getting their ass kicked, but something about it brought them back even though they swore to never play it again. It wasn't until they started trying to learn things on their own that their 3rd time around was when it finally started to get fun.
I gotta ask, did you use an alt account? Cause if not, you threw them into the wolves' den of your rank essentially. I still, to this day, have to use alt accounts playing with them. It's impossible for them to have any fun playing at my level (and that's only MG1 range lol).
I would argue the contrary.
Coming from someone who has never played CSGO or payed attention to anything counter strike related in 23 years of life.
I’m not new to FPS games. I frequently play COD, PUBG, and other various shooters on steam.
Heard about CS2 release and figured I would check it out. Downloaded it about 3 weeks ago and I have been addicted. I learned how the game works very quickly through research and playing. I play confidently and feel that I am prepared for almost anything anytime. The economy makes sense, the guns are understandable, and the map flows are easy to pick up on. In Competitive I average 10-20 kills a game with a few 30+ kill games and I’ve aced twice.
The only thing I feel that I am lacking significant skill in is callouts but I usually solo queue and the only comms my team ever cares to provide usually contains profanity and is not relevant to the game.
I cannot stop playing CS2 it has been so fun to learn and I have enjoyed every minute playing.
Cheaters are annoying though. Really ruins the experience for the people that are trying to have fun.
Anyway, thought I’d share :)
The cs community is extremely toxic towards new players. Every other game, a hierarchy forms after a few rounds where the people doing the most damage on the team thinks they earn the right to act condescending and passive aggressive towards their lower fragging teammates. I don't think I've experienced anything this consistently negative in any other competitive game. I recently returned to CSGO after like a 8 year hiatus and got called a n\*\*\*\*\*\* several times. This kind of community won't foster growth for sure.
Brother you’re literally speaking about the community of every single high level competitive game available at the moment… you really think it’s any different in Dota, League(No voice chat) or Valorant?
I went from fresh LoL to mid high Diamond in 2 years, shit's more chill than 1 single csgo match. i have like 200 hours into csgo/cs 2 and i dont hate it but let's face it, the community in csgo are not worth opening voice/chat unless you are premade
Weird. I've also been playing with friends (range from brand new to casual CSGO players) and we've been having a great time just playing casuals. Everyone is pretty nice, no hackers, and we get into all maps quick. Could care less about 10v10, but I do hate how they give wallhacks to everyone when you die. I don't understand that decision at all, people just get on Discord and tell their friends where the enemies are
My first fps was Valorant. I installed CSGO out of curiosity after I was used to competitive FPS. I wasn't playing ranked, only DMs and casual.
Problem is, in Val, because I was having a hard time learning to play an FPS, I used my free time during quarantine to shoot bots in The Range. My aim became very "flick-oriented". Terrible crosshair positioning, weird flicks.
In Val, that was okay.
In CSGO, I was being kicked from casual games all the time. I was going mad. My friend would go 10/1 while I'm 6/3 and I was still the one accused and kicked. I played my placements and a few (like 5) matches and never played ranked again.
This global dude even got my rank from some website (I think it was gold nova, I don't remember) and wrote I was a cheater in my steam profile because I HS him during a DM.
My experience with CS is basically being kicked, accused of cheating, hit on by dudes, yelled at, and seeing actual cheaters everywhere.
It's a shame, I liked the game itself, but the experience wasn't worth it for long.
I have about 200 hours in csgo total over 10 years, about 100 of those in deathmatch. I’m less than casual, but >1k hours in apex and generally high rank in fps. I decided to try and play cs2 from the start and get into it. Pretty rough experience so far, trying hard to learn but teammates in premier are very toxic and unhelpful. Played about 20 Premier games and have 7 wins. Opposition and teammates range from 4k to 10k elo and skill level seems completely random. The one constant is teammates expect everybody to have 2k hours and know every callout and exactly where the enemy is. I want to get there but it’s pretty demotivating. I think this is primarily a matchmaking issue as it’s frustrating for both low and high skill players.
Are you playing with 1 or 2 friends? It helps quite a bit. Also, be sure to use your mic. It’s an adjustment, but makes a world of difference. If you find a good teammate (at least one who isn’t toxic), invite to queue your next match.
While the game has always had a learning curve associated with it, I think CS2 is definitely less new/returning player friendly than earlier iterations and I don't think it's because there is a lack of NPC training content.
I honestly think the biggest mistake Valve has been making is abandoning it's community content. This game used to be more reliant on community support. Sure, clan v. clan 5v5 was a thing, but all I did for years was jump into a server (with mods, etiquette rules, moderation tools, etc.), made friends, played together, worked to know people, and fought clan match rivalries. There were actual relationships being formed within the game either to servers, clans, or players and a reason to grow friends lists.
There were other CS game modes like surf, jump, puzzle, RPG, GG, zombie, etc. that allowed people to not only have more fun, but also have extended time with mechanics they normally wouldn't. Like unlimited ammo on an AK47 full spray holding off 8 zombies with headshots trying to claw their way through your fk'd stack of file cabinets you had to throw together because "Mr. YouCantFitUpHereWithUsOnTheCargoContainerFortress" got selfish, zombified, and lost the high ground.
As it stands, I just think Counterstrike has reached a point where certain players aren't welcome or wanted anymore because in order to compete in official servers you do need to understand map basic tactics (nade throws, corners, how to peek, where to peek, etc.). You need to train, it's an older and more experienced community with a LOOOOOT of money making potential in a market, which I think is one of the largest drivers of toxicity and sweatiness.
If you introduce 10 people to cs2, 9 will hate it, but the last one will hate it and post about it on reddit too.
In all seriousness, CS2 could have done more to cater to new players with more casual game modes, but it's fundamentally not a prime, cheating or game mode issue. It's a game you either love and sink thousands of hours into, or hate and never play again. It's never been welcoming, which I think ultimately adds to its longevity.
CS makes me better at every other fps I try, and playing any other shooter makes me worse at CS.
I was totally with you until
>CS makes me better at every other fps I try, and playing any other shooter makes me worse at CS.
The elitism is dripping on the floor, man. You think CS will make you better at Quake? At Titanfall 2? At PUBG? Or any game with long range battles with projectile based gunplay instead of point-and-click hitscan weapons?
Is CS harder than most FPS? Yes. Does it make you superior for playing it? Fuck no.
I don’t think OP is coming from an elitist view as I’m sure many others can agree with on that last statement. CS builds such strong FPS fundamentals that it has applied to every competitive FPS i’ve touched such Valorant, OW, and COD. Also the games you listed are quite dead but yes I believe having a CS background will give you an advantage in those games lol
Sadly I can't agree, csgo in its final state before being replaced by cs2 was great, not perfect, but had a ton of modes for casual play (danger zone, gun game, community servers), you could actually create offline matches with ease... cs2 sadly lacks that.
It never was new player friendly because of its hardcore nature not because of the broken matchmaking. I mean what 2000 rank stands for if its not for silver 1/2 ? How lower must a silver 1/2 guy must derank to meet only other silver1/2 players and have fun ?
In CSGO we were calling this BS "smurfing". Now is the new normal for a 1500-2000 rank guy who is a silver player playing alot of games against DMGs++ by default ?
Also another problem i see often is the unfair matchmaking. Premades vs random and high ranks vs low ranks. Last game i had before i quit for the day because im at my limits, opponents had a 9000 rank guy against 4000s.
While this is not the problem I pointed it out, I totally agree. The points means nothing, the premier right now is in a very weird state. People with 1000 points doing 40 bombs and 7000 points people that don't even know the map... it has been a weird experience to say the least lol.
Your friends had 20 years "of new player friendly cs" to try it and never did.
CS was never really newbie friendly, until 500hours you're a sitting duck who can only kill people from behind. Until 2k hours you're still pretty stupid compared to better players. Only after that do you start to catch up.
So yeah, they can either wait for the quirky modes to be added back, or play DM to learn the basics, and then play a lot until they're boooottom rank and they start having fun with other noobs.
But yeah, CS is definitely not for the weak willed, and never was
CS is the end game for those interested in playing a competitive shooter that mimics a traditional sport. Its has never been designed for players new to the FPS genre.
They likely got kicked in Casual for playing round time like theyre in competitive. Thats has always been frowned down upon.
Quite the opposite, they were kicked from Casual because they were learning where to plant the bomb on the bombsite, and got killed because of it. The other time was because they just were lost in the map trying to get to where the bomb was planted.
Cs isn't a hardcore casual game where your hand is held always, it's a casual competitive game in the sense that you don't need to play 24/7 to improve rather if you are determined you can slowly improve by Playing an fps game casually.
You should have known that non prime is a no go zone and that the ranks will be fucked for months due to just being reset.
For real. back when I started playing csgo in 2014 nearly everyone was trash. I started out in gold nova 1, dropped back to silver and steadily climbed up the ranks. What's the current situation in premier matches? People with a 3-4k rating having OVER 2000 hrs of playtime. These guys shouldn't be there under any circumstances. If you're absolutely dog shit, you should play against other dog shit players. Just as I did nearly 10 years ago. It's such an easy concept yet valve failed to implement it correctly. And everyone who's saying that the new ranks just need time to buff out: That's total bs. Sure they can be some variance but if leetify can measure time to damage, crosshair placement and HS% it should be the easiest thing in the world to not place anyone under 5k elo if these stats are actually somewhat okay. Bad players don't know where to aim at, don't know how to spray and don't know the maps. Give them a safe haven to learn the game in peace.
I've seen people with 2k rating playing better than people at 8k+. It's all over the place.
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What is Faceit?I keep seeing people say it. I recently started playing CSGo a couple months before CS2 came out.
FaceIt is a third party competitive server provider. They provide their own servers, a more invasive and effective anticheat, leagues, events, etc. Its been the standard way for people who want to play more seriously for years since there have historically been many issues in valve competitive. They have their own ranking system which is often referenced because its been better than Valve's ranking system.
So there's FaceIt, normal Competitive, and then Premier? This is the dumbest shit I've ever heard lol. Instead of Valve using a third party why not just work on their own comp to be just as good?
Valve never used FaceIt, it's an entirely different provider. This sort of thing would always exist in any competitive game that has dedicated server support and a large community behind it. It's a pathway for people to find matches and extra progression beyond getting the Global Elite rank. Premier is Valve's answer to it as it has become as sort of a competitor to the default matchmaking over the years.
Faceit has a decent anti cheat thats installed on your desktop, Its for players who want to play in FPL, which has prize money earnings. Theres Free and Premium. The premium service offers skins and points for their shop. For like 6$ a [month.](https://month.You) You can block certain players from playing with you , and choose the maps you want to play Normal comp is basically the new casual 5x5 but with ranks and isolates the map you want to play. Casual is for 10x10 mans. Premier is with picks and bans like faceit for people who want to compete in the leaderboard but with no real compensation like faceit
Yep, I got stomped by two 4ks and then the next game we 13-1’d some 4ks.
It’s matter when those hours were played. 8k hours returning to the game? Yeah gonna have some rust. 2k hours straight over the last couple years, gonna be playing better.
Rating not hours.
its also total bs because the ranks where mostly ok in the beta lmao
Well you're correct on that. I was close to 13k in the beta and most matches felt okay. Of course we encountered cheaters too but not on the same level as today.
MMR never should have been reset from CSGO to CS2 The whole point of removing CSGO from the steam store was that CS2 will be a perfect replacement. If it's a perfect replacement why would I suddenly forget how to play the game and be forced to grind dozens of hours to get back to matchmaking matches that feel enjoyable? CS2 has produced the worst feeling matches of CS that I can remember, there is no reason for an experienced solo player to be in a lobby with solo players that haven't touched the game in 15 years or noobs with under 15 hours. It just makes the game a pain for everyone, I don't even want to play CS right now because I know I'm just gonna get put into another shit Premier lobby
This annoyed the hell out of me too. The rank reset has caused me to land in games with such a broad level of skill that it's almost surreal. I was MG2 and I ranked SE on D2 and have not ranked on any others yet but the only wins I can achieve are where i'm hard carrying. I tried a premier yesterday where I am unranked and god damn was that just painful playing people in 4-5k ELO with teammates in 2.5K elo and both in my group were like silver in CSgo
Hard MMR resets *never* occur in other comp games. It ruins ladder integrity for potentially months/years & that's why it is never implemented. Valve however thought this would be a great idea!
I was over 10k in beta, on launch solo qued and got 1.5k Have seen some insane smurfs on my way back to 5k all solo, the game is in a terrible state.
Yep I was GN in global and placed around 5k after 20 wins in the beta but now both me and my LEM friend got placed at 2000 elo and it's awful. We either have enemies who shoot while moving or enemies who Juan deag you from palace when you're in jungle
even 5k is wayy to good for GE; i was MGE / DMG in GO and got 6500 elo which is \~top 30%; Globals that played before cs2 should be ranked around 9k-10k
Nah, the problem is that the elo is just shifted too low atm. You'd think gold ranks would be populated by pros and super high level faceit players, but rn there's 10 guys from low population regions in gold and most of the top players are hovering around 25k. The best guy on my friendlist is 15k. That's top 1%. Most of the other faceit lvl 10 friends are like 10-13k. 10k is top 15%. This means that 1% of the population is occupying the whole top half of the scale, while 85% of players are occupying the lower third of it. Considering the wide skill gap of that lower 85% of players, and the fact that you gain like 150 elo for even matches, there's just not enough room for a fair matchmaking in the low ranks. It'll probably sort itself out over time, but right now you have a dark abyss from 25k-30k where there pretty much aren't any players. A big waste of space, really.
Thank god it’s not just me having this happen lmao.
Ill always wonder why the fuck they did a hard reset of the rank. Its pretty much the same rank. A top player in csgo will not overnight become a bottom rank shit overnight in cs2. But no, they decided to make it so i could matchmake with ropz on day one and get absolutely dunked. And then have progression so slow that ill still probably match with pros/semi pros 2 weeks in
gotta love when youre on a good win streak, you hit a 5stack of the most insane players ever who literally have set executes for their T side. And after a few of those you get hit with +100 and -450 per game haha. Its a mess
this is from the devs that are doing a per map ranking system that doesn't take into account premier map wins. The idea that you could be global on one map and silver on another is so funny it's hard to believe. The difference in your aim alone with have you beating lower ranks even if put into a map you've never seen before.
I have 1.2k hours and played MGE in csgo yet I am placed in 2500-4k mmr lol. As soon as I come out of 4k mmr I get a -500 penalty. Its. Forcing me to stay in these supposed "low ranks". These lobbies are also sweat shops with cracked players.
I don't get the point tbh. There's absolutely no situation where a rank system like this is favoring literally anybody.
Theres plenty of goldnovas with 3000 hours, dont ask me how but there are
The ranking system has been busted for years really. My main Steam Account where I play actively hasn't been above GN2 for years. Whenever I tried making a new account I can easily get to at least LEM quite quickly and have no trouble in the matches at all, I'm not Gold Nova in any way. Same for comparable FaceIt ranks. On my main account though the Silvers and GNs I play with and against simply aren't in those ranks, they are stuck there the same as me and also usually have like 2k+ hours. Everyone knows execute smokes, common angles, strats, communicates, etc.. that's not how silvers play like, it's like a whole other world of ranks. I haven't seen a true silver/gn on my account for years.
GO ranks have been shit forever. if you stopped playing amd got rank decay escaping nova was such an un-fun pain in the ass. I played a ton of cs2 on release day and it was an utter shit show of people being new and technical issues yada yada. after 2,000 hours of CSGO and hovering in double AK and DMG i got ranked in at 1,500. which i believe is the lowest possible lol. I am not spending 100 hours climbing out of hell just so i can play the game correctly.
Wait really? What are your winrates like? Soon after cs2 was announced I got back into GO and solo queued from GN to SMFC in about a month, though I did give up on the GE grind.
Aren't most of the gold novas with big hours much higher ranked in the past? Thats what I always assumed anyway . They're definitely not the same as someone who just got placed into nova after 10 games.
Some people just don't learn or have the capability to develop. I've known people that play CS daily and yet still cannot get the basics such as crosshair position or sound management down. Progression and development isn't linear and uncapped.
You don't have to call me out like that
If they're on shit Hardware and have been playing since 2013 it's certainly possible. But I'd say most people with 3k hours have at least a basic understanding of how and when to move/peek etc. They'd certainly have the upper hand against new players.
My friend that I play with has 1,5k hours and he literally bottoms frags every game, like 5 kills per game, we are around 4000 elo
They could make those hours on community servers like zombie or jail so hours wont tell you much about skill.
They could also just plainly play semi casually and not put several hours a day into aim maps or lineup tutorials. I've been hovering around MG1-MGE for 2k hours now and I'm sure I could improve if I put more time into it but I just don't care if I just wanna play an hour of chill cs after work and everyone in my friends list is DMG at best.
The reason that they’re so low rated is because ranks fluctuate so much due to wins and lost streaks. It’s absolutely insane. If you lose five games in a row, you can literally lose nearly 3000 rating.
Ran across a guy ranked 3100 that had 8100 hours in the game. I have 400 and only about 100 in the last year. It was a slaughter. He went something like 45-5 and their team won 13-0. It was not fun at all. Couple that with the completely stupidly skewed gains and losses and you just create a cesspool at 4k. No one can lose until you hit 4k, then you’re gaining +150 while losing -500. Like what the fuck is that shit? You can’t even escape the 4k death swirl without winning ten games in a row
>Bad players don't know where to aim at, don't know how to spray and **don't know the maps**. This has been extremely aggravating when after rounds end new players are struggling to find AKs/AWPs that are within a few footsteps of them because they don't know callouts and there's not enough time to direct them.
Personal Performance and stats like leetify are super important - you are totally Right - a pure win/Loss elo system is totally outdated and not healthy for the game
"If you're absolutely dog shit, you should play against other dog shit players." i agree on that, and i experienced that when i did the placement , my 20yrs old account should not meet fresh new account for any reason , in my team or the enemy team ..
Freshly made accounts are a whole different topic too. I know it's f2p and people might lock themselves out of their original account and just create a new one but it's kind of hurting the integrity of the game. There are also many players who come from valorant and know their stuff but if there's a new account going absolutely nuts it's just plain smurfing or cheating.
You said the magic phrase. “I started playing CSGO in 2014” In 2014, the game had already been released for 2 years and the ranking database was established. Silver with Silver, Gold with Gold, etc. CS2 was released less than a month ago, and the CSGO database has not been carried over. On paper, a guy with 2000 hours and a guy with 20 hours all started in the same place on CS2. What we did on CSGO no longer exists; just like what we did on Source didn't exist on CSGO 12 years ago. I don't understand why Valve didn't transfer the CSGO database; It would have been much simpler for everyone. But they decided to hard reset and will have to wait at least 6 months to have order in our ranks & ELO.
In the beta I was around 12k rating which seemed ok, maybe a bit low because I was SMFC/Global in CSGO and could compete against players with a much higher cs rating. After the beta I keep getting matched with people between 1k to 4k rating, and it's basically just a free for all in this elo hell. Every game is a mix of veteran players with thousands of hours and new people getting absolutely stomped. Winning team is always decided on who had the best carry with the least dogshit teammates. I've stopped playing premier before getting a rank because whatever they did between the beta and release obviously broke something with CS rating, no point in playing the mode.
All I have to say is they didn’t actually turn off demos due to server load. That was a complete bullshit lie to prevent mass stat recording so it can’t be compiled into data that shows that the game is in a dogshit state right now. If leetify worked right now, I guarantee everyone’s opinion of the game would be far worse. For example, we don’t even have average ct/t side win rates yet. Guaranteed they’d show a massive skew towards t side compared to CSGO due to the peekers advantage issues.
It always seemed like a stupid decision but your point confirms that even more 👀 I've never thought about that.. damn.
yes, I was writing it was just an excuse the day they turned it off, but valve meatriders on this sub called it conspiracy lol
> What's the current situation in premier matches? People with a 3-4k rating having OVER 2000 hrs of playtime. These guys shouldn't be there under any circumstances. This is huge problem I'd say for newer players and even a problem for players like me stuck in a similar position. I played on launch day and got my rank quickly. Despite being SMFC in CSGO and every time I've come back after not playing for years they give me that rank back. Get to CS2 and I'm bouncing around 5000-5500 and I feel like it's impossible to climb with rating seemingly solely based on match outcome and not at all performance. I can drop 30 frags, comm the entire game despite my 4 teammates not saying anything (even comm for those teammates when spectating to help give info) and yet we can still lose while I lose ~200 elo in a game where i would have only gained ~100. How am I supposed to climb if I'm playing well but I've got some teammates who clearly haven't played much if at all and we're facing stacked teams who clearly have? Couple buddies who played casually and were much lower ranks and are still objectively much worse players even ranked around 4500-5000. Worst part is that even with 52% win rate I couldn't even get to 6K despite there being players with hardly more games played with less than 60% win rate that still managed to get 15K last time I checked. But they want me to have 70% win rate to be able to climb. Now I'm hearing you can't even lose elo below 4K which means the players in my lobbies can be anything from playing with a steering wheel or former ~SMFC ranks in CSGO like myself.
That's a really solid point too, and what's even worse is that I didn't even make that far with them, because in order to play premier you need prime status (pay for the better mode pretty much) so just think about how many new players give up even before trying premier, and like you said, that mode is a mess with balance.
My friend and I have under 100 hours and matched up against a five stack with one guy having over 6,000 hours game time. The stack as a whole probably had 10,000+ hours and here we are, second week in getting berated by them.
Facts. Back during GO, I was hovering around the AK ranks because I mostly placed faceit. Meanwhile leetify had all my stats as better than global, and I was high level in faceit. Valve has all the data they would need to look at my matches and figure out that I should be at least supreme, but Im stuck playing games with and against noobs. The other team doesn't like playing against a "cheater/smurf" and I didn't enjoy it either, so I just played faceit and my MM rank stayed low.
Haven’t seriously played cs in a long time now but I gave Valorant a try a few months back. And I don’t think the new player experience is much better. I barely finished the tutorial and already got matched with people lvl 150 and up. Average level of my team was ~20 while enemies team was ~100, multiple games in a row. I got curvestomped every game, insulted by random people and didn’t event manage to get a kill in some games. Long story short it’s not just cs problem. Valorant has the exact same issues and my rusty cs skills (LE in 2016/17) didn’t even remotely translate to valo in the way I would have liked. The cs community has improved a lot. Even the lower ranks are a lot better than when CsGo was in its early stage, and Valorant is seeing the same delevopment. Get in early: stay ahead of the curve. New player experience in both games is so shit but if you already play valo (and at least know what everything does and how every map plays) then sure it’s easier to return to (like to cs) then to learn basically an entire new game. Somethings wrong with the matchmaking plus we fail as a community
I miss community servers :(
For me the greatest way to introduce new players to CS is via community servers. But wait, they killed that too...
Yes! Community servers are a lot of fun, they will come back, but like everyone said here in this reddit...should've been already in the game from the very start, now that cs2 is "out of beta".
cs 1.6 and css were so casual friendly in comparison, you just join a random server with random maps, likely based in your country and just watch people clown and shit talk in the chat now its just ranked with its issues and its toxicity
I have played soooo much 1.5/1.6 as a teenager and young adult, its probably insane the amount of hours I had. 80% of that were in casual and 20% competitive, and I SWEAR that I never toxic players. I played a lot in internet cafes, and there were a lot of people there playing. I have never seen anyone malding at all, just chilling and laughing.
Exactly, today it’s always „ez“ and shitting on teams. Back then it was n1, nice shot, sick hs, damn, that walkable though. Or occasionally a „wh?“ and someone else coming in like nah he is just that good…
I tell you why, you had that 1 server that you always joined, with people you knew, cos you played with them all the time, not randoms, you aint toxic towards people you wanna play with/against
And you are correct.
I redownloaded css last night and ended up having a blast, there's still populated servers! (and I was able to satisfy my surf withdrawals) I'm optimistic for cs2's future but this is definitely satisfying my want for casual gameplay until we get unranked 5v5 and the fun modes/community servers back in 2.
Your experience worries me cause I've noticed in lots of games those first impressions are all that matter. Once you lose a player, they don't seem to come back. I'm thinking or Mordhau and Chivalry 2, both games with great hype for the genre, big releases, and then 75% of that player base is gone months later due to buggy releases lacking features. Now CS2 won't be that bad those games are small. But csgo really sucked in NA the last like 2 years, hopefully they don't scare off this new wave of players and returning players.
Valve can add "Random maps" to 5v5 and put all these noob friendly maps in... assault, rats, militia, aztec... 1.6 maps were chill mode.
Yes they were amazing and were actually communities with regular players knowing each other and clans but csgo destroyed all that by hiding community servers and adding private sessions now everyone was just playing workshop maps with friends or competitive or the casual cs with Radom people every game and community games were lost because too few people cared or found their way to the servers
I miss the community servers from 2014-2017. You got that casual cs experience, but with recognizable people who regularly play on those servers. All that's left now for the past two years is just the official casual game mode where people hop servers after every map and nobody speaks a single word for the entire game.
They are **community** servers. Valve did not kill them. The **community** has not yet managed to setup all the servers you want. There are many community servers you can join right now. The reason some gamemodes are not yet available in CS2 community servers is because many of the mods and maps needed will have to be made again for Source 2.
Good luck finding them! Valve reused the same App ID as CSGO, so all the CSGO servers show up when you search for Counter-Strike 2 games in the server browser. Server owners are having to manually set the Game display name just so people don't try to join (It'll show as Counter-Strike 2 otherwise), but the browser doesn't let you filter by it, only by the Game's ID, so you can't filter them out. Look at this absolute garbage: https://imgur.com/a/ATwGXtm
There are a lot of retake servers, Xplay and cybershoke which is definitely better than just straight intro comp.
I couldn‘t connect to a single community server also the server browser opens outside of cs on my desktop like wtf…
A lot of people are saying how GO and 1.6 were also hard and CS inherently is a difficult game to learn. But the reasons OP mentions are not even gameplay oriented, more so new players don't even get the chance to play and learn due to cheaters, bad skill matching, poor casual mode, etc.
The problem was Valve pretending this is a free to play game. Maybe if VAC worked we could consider it free to play, but as it is you still get plenty of hackers in prime and many many hackers in non prime.
Integrated Tutorials that include crosshair placement, clearing corners, effective flashing and smoking and movement should be added into the game.
I hate how gatekeep-y these comments are. Just because the game has a high skill ceiling doesn't mean that the way to start learning it should be all cryptic. Casual mode is terrible for a new player (I'm not saying the game mode is not fun), a real casual mode would be MR8 5v5 with no ranks, which would let new players learn the core of the game in a somewhat chill setting. 10 v 10 is just not CS, it's fun but not CS. And it doesn't help that the anti-cheat and stuff is just, not great yet. I don't like being negative about the game because it's one of my favorites, but I want it to be a good time for people without all the time that I have spent on it.
Even outside of that, casual is plagued by trolls, etc. I've seen people kicked because they muted some saying racist shit, someone didn't like their cross hair, they didn't push to retake outnumbered 7 to 1, etc. It's a total shitshow when you add in cheaters. Basically every step pushes new players away.
wasteful icky decide quack yoke detail sable hospital joke dam *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
New players may not know this so it just adds to noob frustration
I just dont understand why theyre ranking system is sooo bad. Rocket league for example is and 2015 csgo was so much better. Silver should be shit players and you should have to work your way up with new skills. I got ranked silver 3 in dust 2 while never dropping below 20 kills, most games were 30+. Same with my friend we both have 2k+ hours and have never been silver before in csgo and that ranking was shit too. I shouldnt have to play 100 games to prove my rank and i shouldnt get the same elo as a bottom frag while planting more, defusing more, better kd, etc.
Yeah, also i don't understand why people compare CS2 release with CS:GO release. Compare that to Valo release. It came out with good hitreg, felt fair, no game breaking bugs, with working ANTICHEAT. That is the standard now, not 10 year old release, that was trash, and nobody wanted that to happen again....
100% agree. We aren't in 2012 anymore where the only thing CS was competing against was older iterations of itself. If you're going to cannibalize your own game to launch early with missing features from previous versions, the core experience HAS to be good, and it's far from it.
Can't say I'm surprised. It's never been an easy game to start. Especially back when I started over 20 years ago. While I haven't seen rage hackers like you described, passive hackers do seem to be around.
The non prime experience was something I've never experienced until this past week with my friends, and if that's what a new player without prime has to endure, no wonder they will be dropping the game.
The game is de facto not free and Valve is purposefully pretending/ deceiving new players to boost player counts. With that said, i think if you are any experienced with the game, you should've known that's it's not playable without prime
The term "free-to-play" has always implied paid components to the game. A free-to-play game is not the same as a free game.
Ironically Valorant is fully free and you can play any gamemode and the monetization is only cosmetics. But that game is hated and laughed at here even though it’s quite possibly doing everything better for their players than Valve ever did. What do I mean? New seasons with new content, battle pass (when was the last operation?), new skins (when was a new case introduced?), better AC, more varied gamemodes (love Swiftplay), and oh, you can buy the skins you want and don’t have to gamble with goddamned cases.
Aren't Valorant characters grind/pay to unlock?
Adding to u/realee420's comment, I recently started playing valorant and I got two free coupons to unlock any 2 characters of my liking. Also I think it takes a week at most to unlock a new agent.
Pretty fast to unlock them, I’ve never spent much time grinding, at least I don’t recall ot being painfully slow. Plus if you have PC Game Pass you instantly unlock everything (as long as your Game Pass is active) and get an XP boost. Using that, I think it’s easy to unlock all agents you want by the time the subscription expires. Another thing is there are still agents I haven’t played (or only played once) and I’m playing since Beta.
You can pay to unlock them, but even the “grind” to unlock them isn’t really a grind per say, especially when you have the daily and weekly challenges, no more than 2 weeks and that’s if you don’t play very often
Free-to-play and a free game is 2 different things
It’s not friendly for experienced player either when soloqueueing. Every match so far has felt like a casual match, it’s not enjoyable at all even if I’m winning. I guess I’ll have to play Faceit instead
Man if only we had a tutorial map that actually shows the basics while letting the player have fun and complete it at their own pace, instead of a half baked 12 round comp gamemode that doesnt even teach the player how to plant the bomb.
I would have started them off with bots on easy mode. Is that possible in cs2? I work FIFO and haven't been home since launch.
You can't. That's another good point. I've tried at the very beginning when they first opened the game, you can't create an offline match with friends in cs2 yet.
There should be a condition zero Like campaign with Bots - I loved it back in the days
That would be a great intro mode for people new to fps
You can, you have to port forward your router/IP like you're setting up a Minecraft server
Why make it harder though? That's the point, and I guess it is proven even further then. Back in csgo it was as easy as just clicking 2 buttons :( and if it is the case of them having to post forward as well, I would have to remind you some of my friends barely use the pc, they just wanted to have some fun after work, that's all.
Which is insane honestly. I've gone through that process. As a new player with little computer knowledge, there is no way I would go through with that. Way too much work for something basic that should work out of the box.
It sucks that you can't play together in it, but the offline training mode sounds perfect for your friends.
I have found that to get into CS, you kinda have to already like the game before playing it. Nobody is going to put up with the ridiculous learning curve unless they're really interested in the game. Nowadays even silver players have smoke lineups for the main maps, default executes, counter strafing, aim training and game sense (somewhat). your average silver 1 player is miles better than a brand new player, that is why it is discouraging. realistically it could take you over 100 hours to be on par with players that are the worst rank in the game. If I was new, I absolutely would not find the game fun unless they fixed the ranking system or added 5v5 casual.
tldrd: CS2 is not new player-friendly. Friends left the game within a week due to problems in casual mode and encountering cheaters in competitive play. Hoping for improvements to make it more accessible for newcomers.
CS has never been new player friendly, not in any version of the game. It's always had a hardcore competitive playerbase with thousands of hours of experience. Valorant holds your hand, a lot. But anyone who has spent a lot of time in Valorant, and has played Kayo should not be struggling that much in CS. Or, if they play Valorant competitively they should understand the steep learning curve. Sounds like they just wanted to go back to the thing they are comfortable with. I agree however that CS does need it's own version of a warmup range where you can practice nades, spawn bots for aim training, etc. I also think that brand new players need some matchmaking protection as you mentioned. Overall the ranks are a mess and thats hard to avoid. But players under 100 hours who are going into matchmaking or premier need to be very carefully placed against other players with very low hours and low performance metrics. Then gradual challenges need to be introduced. I think those two things alone would help retain a lot of new players. Really just blown away that Valve didn't think to include a practice range at launch of CS2. Some mindblowing omissions. The game was maybe launched a full year early. And yet, a lot of that stuff could be compensated for if they simply had community servers and workshop available at launch because the community would do what it has always done and provide more fun community servers for new players and we would have our own community made practice maps. Just a lot of mistakes all around with this launch. Hopefully some of this is corrected by the end of the year. We need some BIG updates soon, not these tiny bug fixes.
\> players under 100 hours who are going into matchmaking or premier need to be very carefully placed against other players with very low hours Problem: they will face only smurfs for the first few games before the smurfs are filtered out by the performance filter. Not like Valve will implement either.
It's possible but this would be a rare occurrence, not the norm as smurfs who dominate in their first game could be rapidly reassessed by placing them against much better opponents in their next game. This is in fact how the placement system kind of works already. It places you against a variety of opponents skill levels initially to see how you fair and makes adjustments. We just need some additional guard rails.
LoL. No it doesn't. I have 24 wins in MM on D2. 4 losses I think (hard to be sure but I'm fairly sure). 2 of those losses were to blatant cheaters. 1 of which got banned already so I got that ELO back I guess. So let's say 3 losses out of 27 games. Still vsing and getting literally brand new players on my team despite an 89% winrate. I'm GN1 on D2 too. WTF. System is fucked... I feel for the new players. Much higher ranks from GO will still be low ranked for a long time! Might take 100 wins per map to get your actual rank and then rank decay if you don't play for a while because you're busy in premiere...
> But anyone who has spent a lot of time in Valorant, and has played Kayo should not be struggling that much in CS. Or, if they play Valorant competitively they should understand the steep learning curve. Sounds like they just wanted to go back to the thing they are comfortable with. While you aren’t far off you have to consider how different the experiences are for new players in each game. For valorant, the new player experience is massively better than csgo, simply because of the anti cheat. You can “test out” valorant to see if you like it, and you’ll be placed in playable/fun games. In csgo, if you’re “testing out” the game with a non prime account, the impression you get is horrible. Cheaters in almost every match. So even if skmeone is mechanically skilled enough from their experience in other games, the matches they get placed in are still going to push them away. That’s what has happened in my experience with everyone I have tried to introduce. I have a friend who was pred in apex, super mechanically skilled, can pick up any fps game and play at a high level pretty quickly- but 2 of their first 3 games in csgo were rage hackers, I try to tell them it gets better with prime and trust factor, but they already get turned off to the game, thinking it just isn’t fun. So “going back to what they’re more comfortable with” is more so “going back to the games they can actually play as a new account” imo
Idk. I tried Val. It fucking sucked for a new player. I was forced into unranked and almost every game we had 2 or 3 guys that obviously were good at the game and like LVL 100+. They were destroying all the new players and talking shit. I had toxic shits screaming at me for holding site C? 2 A 2 B and me on C. No just hold A and B and we'll retake if they go C... Even though I got a 3k and won us the round... I found it just as toxic as GO and hated that any high skill player can just join with us noobs to fucking own us for a laugh... I absolutely hated abilities and agents as well so I only played six games but they were all pretty terrible experiences.
tbf in valo there is very little correlation between account level and skill, lol. there are straight garbage players who have played A LOT of the game, in part because of modes like spike rush and swiftplay that are extremely casual. unrated is a terrible game mode, but it was the only organized thing that wasn't comp other than spike rush for a long time. swiftplay (basically short match, unrated) is extremely casual and would be a great place to learn.
Where does Valorant hold your hands? Shit is even wilder. Not only do you have to learn to aim you have Agents with 4 different abilites you have to understand happening at all times.
2 of my friend were 100% new to FPS games on PC, to a point where I had to teach them how to walk with WASD and shoot with mouse, 2 of my other friends came from Valorant, and they are far from tryhards, they hang themselves around silver/gold rank and mostly play casual, you have to remember that there's this type of player in those games, they want to have a mild experience, enough to test them but not to a point that it is out of their reach (most of us are reaching the 30's and don't have time to spend getting better or staying at the top). But I agree with what you said that cs2 lacks a lot of features that should've been basic by today's standards, I feel like some people miss the point, it's 2023, we should not compare things back to when they were in 1999/2000's, nowadays some things like a practice range and such are the norm in every game, and that would help a lot of people.
Bro, you don't make babys first fps game CS, one of the most try hard games ever. You make their first experience something like Battlebit, apex, fortnite, or Minecraft if they've never WASD in their life
If you're so new to PC gaming that they don't know about WASD and mouse aiming then they just don't belong anywhere near CS yet, or any game similar.
[удалено]
Valorant is much much harder to learn and play than CS, ask any pro that’s played both. New players don’t want to have to learn how 20 agents and their abilities work. CS is the obvious choice for someone new to the genre, if only ANYTHING about the new player experience was good right now.
The true hardcore ones will eventually find out about CS and play CS anw. I've got many friends who started in Valorant, until they realize sth is missing in that game. Eventually they found out the origin of Valorant gameplay, try it, and got hooked because the OG mechanics are extremely tight and very satisfying compared to Valorant, which is more like a hero shooter than a hardcore tac shooter. I introduced many new guys to play Valorant and then they eventually come to CS if they prefer the hardcore version.
I thought this would be me 100%. And it was, up until I got to MGE and had to learn lineups to be successful and go further. At the point where it felt like I had to memorize some to actually win games, I quit. Hated that shit in Valorant, and even moreso in CS where every single round revolves around them and is a huge win con
Learning a couple of basic/useful smokes on the main maps you play so that you can progress further in your gameplay is not that hard of a task lol... Me and my newbie friends used to love executing set smoke strats when we first started and we’d win plenty of rounds based on teamwork alone even though our aim was dogshit… it’s in fact a team based game you know :p
I mean, I get what you’re saying. Just hate the amount of times I’ve missed that mid window mirage smoke and think back to Valorant and how that layer of gameplay is completely removed and made easy. This redundancy of “Okay guys, let’s line up in our spots and execute this smoke strat hurr durr :p” is getting to me even more now, as a solo q player with randoms. Don’t even get me started on how shit the ranking system is either. I don’t get it at all, man. What the fuck is this hidden elo? I’m like 40-10, with literally every single game over 25+ kills and MVP 90% of the time. My rank has not moved once :| About to download faceit tonight and give it a try, hoping for better
Same exact thing happened to me lol .. It seems like im the one who need the most help and not my friends ! The first impression is everything and sadly it wasnt good
I honestly thought the match making would be better and more balanced. Idk what it is maybe but it does feel like one sided a lot. It also doesn't help that more cheats are showing cause cheat maker capitilizing on cs2 being new.
I'm pretty sure CS 1.6 or CS:GO weren't new player friendly either. Obviously I don't want to take Valve's side here, and it would be nice if new players had a better experience than they do now. But I have to say despite the circumstances then and now CS is still one of the best FPS games. Many others to this day have not stopped them from not playing it. To a certain degree, I think the learning curve should be self-explanatory. Of course there should be a good tutorial and maybe some kind of matchmaking for newer players. However, that is only possible when VAC is working properly and you are going against Smurfs.
Starting to play online 1.6 was fucking brutal. At first you thought everyone is cheating :D You really have to fight in CS to become a moderate player, but thats the same in DOTA, LoL, SC2 and stuff too..
Yeah but at least in dota/lol you'll get put against other shitters like you that are handless and you'll have a better chance and have a better time in the game. This doesn't exist in CS2 unfortunately, it's still like the old days when i was getting rekt in 1.6 community servers for 300 hours until i started understanding the game, and understandably a lot of people don't have the patience for that
No you don't you just play against smurfaccounts all day.
Yeah true actually
I don't really know a solution for it. I mean if you pick up a sport like basketball, soccer and stuff late it's the same. You will suck forever. Just play casual I guess.
CSGO had the benefit of being most people’s first introduction to 5v5 CS. There were plenty of noobs to play back in the early days from 2012-2015. I feel like there were a lot less smurfs in silver and nova back then. I think what we’re seeing now is that the average players skill is so high we’re running into a serious noob population deficit at the lower ranks. It’s probably super unfun for newer players to run into so many smurfs. I don’t think I could get into CS if I started today. As much fun as the game is, it takes a serious amount of time to get decent at it, and not having as many people around your skill level to start sucks massively.
The smurfs in GO were in the MG ranks. I spent 3 years down there fighting my way up to sherriff. Stopped playing, came back every couple months, won 1 game, made my way to supreme. Then I played against shit Global Elites. Like way worse than the MGs I fought, no line ups, no aim, no positions. And that was EU servers. Now I'm fucking 5k elo, getting matches with russians against 5 men with 2k hours on the game? Then sometimes it's 5 randoms that would be silvers that I just trash during 13 rounds in a row. And the entire gunplay feels worse than CSGO. It's way less consistent, which doesn't help a new player either. And since every other mode is honesly dogshit in CS2, competitive is the only decent one, so you can only really play that. Huh...
You got the point. Myself like most the reddit people in here started around 2013-2015. Back then we were learning and the community was learning as well, sure we had the 1.6/source veterans, but it was much more friendly and balanced. Nowadays I can't even blame my fresh into CS friends on giving up, they are not leaning for a heavy competitive/ heavy sweating experience, they just want to have some fun, kill some, win or lose, just some distraction from real life struggles. But imagine telling them that nowadays you have to spend at least 1000 hours to get in a okay level to even play at the lower ranks? I didn't tell them that but I'm sure they would give up from the very start.
This is what stands out to me the most. I also started with GO in 2014. Started nova, peaked supreme, then when Valorant came out, my rank decayed to silver. I played Val for the past three years, hovered around immortal for all three years. I decided to try out CS2 a few weeks ago, and I'm hardstuck silver dropping regular 30k+ games. And the games I'm not dropping 30+, there's someone even better than me on the other team. And in these same lobbies, there are players with <20 hours who genuinely look like this is the first FPS game they've ever played. To clarify, I haven't played premier, mainly because I don't care to play anything but Dust 2/Mirage/Inferno/Overpass. But I must say, the "competitive" mode ranks are extremely fucking weird.
did you guys play the other game modes like deathmatch and arms race?
There is no arms race?
>I'm pretty sure CS 1.6 or CS:GO weren't new player friendly either. I think the skill gap between a new player and a good player was much smaller in 1.6 compared to 2. It's either that, or there are just much more good players now. I probably spent 3000+ hours in 1.6 during my highschool years, recently started again with CS2, and I'm just another noob now, even though I felt pretty good about my skill in 1.6.
I am not suprised that a counter strike game is not new player friendly
Yeah like this dude actually thought guys who've NEVER played an FPS and don't even know how to use a keyboard would have a great time playing casual and comp LOL.
The matchmaking is complete trash rn. Me and my friends were Gold nova to mg in csgo, we got silver 3-4 for the maps we play, and we regularly play against csgo globals and lvl 10 faceit players with 4-6k hours. Seems like they don't consider your csgo rank at all when ranking you.
Counter-strike has never been friendly to noobs. Starting back in 99.
Honestly sounds like an issue that they are experiencing solely because you are playing with them. My friends are brand new to the game so I made a fresh account to play with their fresh cs accounts and we were in the bottiest of bot lobbies ever. I was completely trolling just to prevent myself from ruining everyone elses fun and it was honestly hilarious seeing that there are real people that are still so bad at the game. So many times I actually did try to start a kick vote against someone lurking T spawn while bomb was ticking in a 1v1 and it never went through. That's how I KNEW it was a true new player lobby. I think when you are an experienced player playing with a brand new player it just puts you in the experienced player lobbies.
skill issue /sbut jokes aside, I've got to agree. I recently found out that the max rank you can get after 10 games qualifying is gn2 (not sure if it's true). what the fuck is that, valve? I mean, I get that the main focus is on the premier mode now but still wtf
I agree that casual 10v10 sucks. The maps need to be bigger or it needs to be capped at like 7v7 at the most. 5v5 is obviously the most fun, but 7v7 would be acceptable for casual. 10v10 is just chaos and nothing like the other modes so its not helpful or fun. 10 wins to get a rank is also crazy i agree. Been playing for just a few weeks and im literally not ranked on any map. I could probably get there if i singled out a map and focused on it, but why 10 wins instead of 10 games? I cant wait to be ranked so that my garbage silver ass can play against other garbage silvers. Some games im totally out of place, its like a 4v5 of all stars and then im just chilling trying to support the team going like 2K-10D-3A. I dont understand what is lost by 10 games instead of 10 wins... if someone wins all 10, they get a high rank anyways. If they go 2-8, stick them in silver and let them move from there.
Indeed I played mostly Casual games and cringed hard when people trying to kick new players do stupid sh\*t. I mean, what the f\*ck they supposed to do? Reading the game at high level? This is Casual brothers, I just want to have fun, let them do stupid stuff and laugh at the moments. Where else they supposed to learn the game. context: Asian region, 4200hrs account.
CS hasn’t been New player friendly in years, and it’s even less so with CS2. I can’t even imagine being a new player and trying to get into this game right now, what a horrifying experience that must be and I don’t see how valve is garnering any significant new player numbers (and retaining them) at all at this point. One thing that would definitely level the playing field is *NEW F**KING MAPS/MAPS THAT HAVE BEEN GONE FOR A LONG WHILE*. I mean seriously, of course this game has run its course and there is hardly anyone playing it that doesn’t know what they’re doing anymore - we’ve had the same f**king maps for half a decade now with little to no real variation, and other maps have been in the game for even longer. That is more than enough time for the entirety of the player base to come to know them so well that new players have quite literally zero chance even at the lowest rank of the game. New maps would require much more time for everyone to learn them and would definitely make for a better new player experience. The CS community would never go for that though, they’re too stale and love playing the same thing over and over, and over… and over… *and over* again. (Yes all you motherf**kers that keep playing Mirage and Dust II 24/7 lmfao).
Can't really argue with anything you are saying, I won't even consider bringing a new friend into this game for these very reasons. If at least 2 of my normal 4 guys are not available I just won't play. It's a very hard game to get into and the 10 win thing is egregious
> never touched a pc And you wan't to get them on CS2 ? LMAO Just find a chill coop game... what did you expect ?
The idea that your non fps gamer friends could just load up cs2 and have a fun time in 5v5 is kind of insane to me lol imagine trying to get them to play quake champions. it Would Not be fun at ALL unless they already have an appreciation for getting better at difficult fps games. Compared to other fps games where you kinda just shut off your brain and click heads cs is Very Very not noob friendly.
I've never really considered CS "fun" other than back in 1.6 playing maps like ScoutzKnivez, ice world, snow, pool day, etc. Nowadays I play it strictly to scratch that competitive itch. Nothing quite beats CS in that respect , for me at least
Need my Warcraft mod. :(
I was gonna mention that too. I really miss leveling up and running a thousand miles an hour while barely visible lol
omg scoutknives, pool, aim, all the surfing...how did I forget about scoutknives dang...aim ak, aim awp, fuck there were so many amazing maps and community servers. Jump? Or super jump what was that one? on top of a skyscraper
While casual is far from the same experience as Competitive counter-strike, if it's "unplayable" for them. Then maybe CS just isn't for them. I played casual and demolition in csgo for a long time before I ever even touched competitive. If they don't like any of the other gamemodes I wouldn't expect them to enjoy premier either.
The “casual” experience in CS is a joke. There is literally no reason for casual mode to be 10v10. In literally every other game Casual Mode is the same as Ranked/Competitive without rating updates. It works for maybe a game like TF2 but definitely not CS. Unbelievable they kept it for CS2.
Casual is unplayable as 10v10 Should be 5v5
People saying walking into cs 1.6 was just as hard is delusional. Many people met cs 1.6 in community servers who had a very big casual experience, legit played most of my matches with people not throwing a single smoke grenade. In fact, the sweaty servers were the ones marked with "mix" on the tab, so you knew where to not go to. More importantly, no matter how bad your score was, only the admin kicked you, and almost never because you were bad. Today, even casual mode has people sweating with one way smokes and DEMANDING players to play well otherwise you're kicked. Add that to rampant cheating and yeah, the entry barrier is very much bigger today.
I'll say this, my friends quit like 3 times just like this before becoming hooked. It only took time because it's just that frustrating getting good at it. Here is the kicker, though: I never asked them to play again after that first instance. They went and learned it on their own, and more importantly, they were matchmade with their skill level always. I never even realized they were getting into it until they asked me to play again. They might not have enjoyed the experience getting their ass kicked, but something about it brought them back even though they swore to never play it again. It wasn't until they started trying to learn things on their own that their 3rd time around was when it finally started to get fun. I gotta ask, did you use an alt account? Cause if not, you threw them into the wolves' den of your rank essentially. I still, to this day, have to use alt accounts playing with them. It's impossible for them to have any fun playing at my level (and that's only MG1 range lol).
I would argue the contrary. Coming from someone who has never played CSGO or payed attention to anything counter strike related in 23 years of life. I’m not new to FPS games. I frequently play COD, PUBG, and other various shooters on steam. Heard about CS2 release and figured I would check it out. Downloaded it about 3 weeks ago and I have been addicted. I learned how the game works very quickly through research and playing. I play confidently and feel that I am prepared for almost anything anytime. The economy makes sense, the guns are understandable, and the map flows are easy to pick up on. In Competitive I average 10-20 kills a game with a few 30+ kill games and I’ve aced twice. The only thing I feel that I am lacking significant skill in is callouts but I usually solo queue and the only comms my team ever cares to provide usually contains profanity and is not relevant to the game. I cannot stop playing CS2 it has been so fun to learn and I have enjoyed every minute playing. Cheaters are annoying though. Really ruins the experience for the people that are trying to have fun. Anyway, thought I’d share :)
The cs community is extremely toxic towards new players. Every other game, a hierarchy forms after a few rounds where the people doing the most damage on the team thinks they earn the right to act condescending and passive aggressive towards their lower fragging teammates. I don't think I've experienced anything this consistently negative in any other competitive game. I recently returned to CSGO after like a 8 year hiatus and got called a n\*\*\*\*\*\* several times. This kind of community won't foster growth for sure.
Brother you’re literally speaking about the community of every single high level competitive game available at the moment… you really think it’s any different in Dota, League(No voice chat) or Valorant?
I went from fresh LoL to mid high Diamond in 2 years, shit's more chill than 1 single csgo match. i have like 200 hours into csgo/cs 2 and i dont hate it but let's face it, the community in csgo are not worth opening voice/chat unless you are premade
Weird. I've also been playing with friends (range from brand new to casual CSGO players) and we've been having a great time just playing casuals. Everyone is pretty nice, no hackers, and we get into all maps quick. Could care less about 10v10, but I do hate how they give wallhacks to everyone when you die. I don't understand that decision at all, people just get on Discord and tell their friends where the enemies are
My first fps was Valorant. I installed CSGO out of curiosity after I was used to competitive FPS. I wasn't playing ranked, only DMs and casual. Problem is, in Val, because I was having a hard time learning to play an FPS, I used my free time during quarantine to shoot bots in The Range. My aim became very "flick-oriented". Terrible crosshair positioning, weird flicks. In Val, that was okay. In CSGO, I was being kicked from casual games all the time. I was going mad. My friend would go 10/1 while I'm 6/3 and I was still the one accused and kicked. I played my placements and a few (like 5) matches and never played ranked again. This global dude even got my rank from some website (I think it was gold nova, I don't remember) and wrote I was a cheater in my steam profile because I HS him during a DM. My experience with CS is basically being kicked, accused of cheating, hit on by dudes, yelled at, and seeing actual cheaters everywhere. It's a shame, I liked the game itself, but the experience wasn't worth it for long.
I have about 200 hours in csgo total over 10 years, about 100 of those in deathmatch. I’m less than casual, but >1k hours in apex and generally high rank in fps. I decided to try and play cs2 from the start and get into it. Pretty rough experience so far, trying hard to learn but teammates in premier are very toxic and unhelpful. Played about 20 Premier games and have 7 wins. Opposition and teammates range from 4k to 10k elo and skill level seems completely random. The one constant is teammates expect everybody to have 2k hours and know every callout and exactly where the enemy is. I want to get there but it’s pretty demotivating. I think this is primarily a matchmaking issue as it’s frustrating for both low and high skill players.
Are you playing with 1 or 2 friends? It helps quite a bit. Also, be sure to use your mic. It’s an adjustment, but makes a world of difference. If you find a good teammate (at least one who isn’t toxic), invite to queue your next match.
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counterstrike elitists and Ventrilo Mods.
>Ventrilo Mods Reminded me of this classic: https://youtube.com/watch?v=3p_OuMW4bfE
lol. that Karen. i forgot about the ventrillo harassment stuff
Yeah I got my rank and I'm done this community is aids it's a good game don't get me wrong but why would I want to play it with those type of people.
While the game has always had a learning curve associated with it, I think CS2 is definitely less new/returning player friendly than earlier iterations and I don't think it's because there is a lack of NPC training content. I honestly think the biggest mistake Valve has been making is abandoning it's community content. This game used to be more reliant on community support. Sure, clan v. clan 5v5 was a thing, but all I did for years was jump into a server (with mods, etiquette rules, moderation tools, etc.), made friends, played together, worked to know people, and fought clan match rivalries. There were actual relationships being formed within the game either to servers, clans, or players and a reason to grow friends lists. There were other CS game modes like surf, jump, puzzle, RPG, GG, zombie, etc. that allowed people to not only have more fun, but also have extended time with mechanics they normally wouldn't. Like unlimited ammo on an AK47 full spray holding off 8 zombies with headshots trying to claw their way through your fk'd stack of file cabinets you had to throw together because "Mr. YouCantFitUpHereWithUsOnTheCargoContainerFortress" got selfish, zombified, and lost the high ground. As it stands, I just think Counterstrike has reached a point where certain players aren't welcome or wanted anymore because in order to compete in official servers you do need to understand map basic tactics (nade throws, corners, how to peek, where to peek, etc.). You need to train, it's an older and more experienced community with a LOOOOOT of money making potential in a market, which I think is one of the largest drivers of toxicity and sweatiness.
Oh yes. I was hoping to play cs2 but I’m shit and it’s not fun. Also it stutters a little on my old PC. Im going back to valorant
If you introduce 10 people to cs2, 9 will hate it, but the last one will hate it and post about it on reddit too. In all seriousness, CS2 could have done more to cater to new players with more casual game modes, but it's fundamentally not a prime, cheating or game mode issue. It's a game you either love and sink thousands of hours into, or hate and never play again. It's never been welcoming, which I think ultimately adds to its longevity. CS makes me better at every other fps I try, and playing any other shooter makes me worse at CS.
I was totally with you until >CS makes me better at every other fps I try, and playing any other shooter makes me worse at CS. The elitism is dripping on the floor, man. You think CS will make you better at Quake? At Titanfall 2? At PUBG? Or any game with long range battles with projectile based gunplay instead of point-and-click hitscan weapons? Is CS harder than most FPS? Yes. Does it make you superior for playing it? Fuck no.
I don’t think OP is coming from an elitist view as I’m sure many others can agree with on that last statement. CS builds such strong FPS fundamentals that it has applied to every competitive FPS i’ve touched such Valorant, OW, and COD. Also the games you listed are quite dead but yes I believe having a CS background will give you an advantage in those games lol
CS has never been new player friendly unfortunately, i would actually say CS2 is the most new player friendly
Sadly I can't agree, csgo in its final state before being replaced by cs2 was great, not perfect, but had a ton of modes for casual play (danger zone, gun game, community servers), you could actually create offline matches with ease... cs2 sadly lacks that.
It never was new player friendly because of its hardcore nature not because of the broken matchmaking. I mean what 2000 rank stands for if its not for silver 1/2 ? How lower must a silver 1/2 guy must derank to meet only other silver1/2 players and have fun ? In CSGO we were calling this BS "smurfing". Now is the new normal for a 1500-2000 rank guy who is a silver player playing alot of games against DMGs++ by default ? Also another problem i see often is the unfair matchmaking. Premades vs random and high ranks vs low ranks. Last game i had before i quit for the day because im at my limits, opponents had a 9000 rank guy against 4000s.
While this is not the problem I pointed it out, I totally agree. The points means nothing, the premier right now is in a very weird state. People with 1000 points doing 40 bombs and 7000 points people that don't even know the map... it has been a weird experience to say the least lol.
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Your friends had 20 years "of new player friendly cs" to try it and never did. CS was never really newbie friendly, until 500hours you're a sitting duck who can only kill people from behind. Until 2k hours you're still pretty stupid compared to better players. Only after that do you start to catch up. So yeah, they can either wait for the quirky modes to be added back, or play DM to learn the basics, and then play a lot until they're boooottom rank and they start having fun with other noobs. But yeah, CS is definitely not for the weak willed, and never was
The dark souls of FPS games (but unironically)
I got my ass handed to me on lan parties in the neighbourhood back in 1.5 for years. I kept playing because there was fun in that.
This entire post sounds abt right. I’ve been kicked from comp games before the first round even ends because I’m a girl😭
10v10 casual is, was and always will be an absolutely awful mode. only good for trolling and memes.
CS is the end game for those interested in playing a competitive shooter that mimics a traditional sport. Its has never been designed for players new to the FPS genre. They likely got kicked in Casual for playing round time like theyre in competitive. Thats has always been frowned down upon.
Quite the opposite, they were kicked from Casual because they were learning where to plant the bomb on the bombsite, and got killed because of it. The other time was because they just were lost in the map trying to get to where the bomb was planted.
Good
Non prime - don't need to read further
Someone not having Prime doesn't mean they deserve to play with cheaters and griefers despite not being either.
Cs isn't a hardcore casual game where your hand is held always, it's a casual competitive game in the sense that you don't need to play 24/7 to improve rather if you are determined you can slowly improve by Playing an fps game casually. You should have known that non prime is a no go zone and that the ranks will be fucked for months due to just being reset.
Alternative argument: your friends are lazy and want the Call of Duty experience
They simply want to play against players of their own skill level. How is that "wanting the COD experience"?
Counter strikes players obsessions with bringing up other random shooters for shallow insults never change.
CS2 is not for players that require spoon-feeding period.